I offer the following additional comment on VPR as a technique not to any specific machine. The latest generation VPR machines are much better than the 1980's types. However you do need to be a little sceptical of some of the claims for some machine types. Yes the delta t at peak reflow is less, it's inherent in the process and makes VPR a good choice for prototypes, low run builds or assemblies with acute or odd thermal loadings. But What about the ramp up? some machines do not address this very well, particularly on the second board. VPR is claimed to be anaerobic but that is only true after a time in a fully saturated vapour system (when all air has been replaced by the vapour), if the machine Depends on a variable vapour concentration for heating profile it can't be saturated. At the same time the condensation is possibly going to be variable on the ramp up according to component or local mass so the big claim of VPR for low delta T can be some what overstated when considering the process as a whole... Actually there is always going to be some air in the reflow zone, the best I ever measured (on the 180s machines admitted) was about 100-150 ppm oxygen equivalent, be interesting to know what users are actually getting. The capacity of VPR for very rapid uniform heat transfer with little mechanical stress can not be over estimated, (up to 50C/second is possible) but if this is taken advantage of on soldering then the flux volatiles will demonstrate that property dramatically. Conversely this is facility is good for curing polymers /adhesives. Regards Mike Fenner Indium Corporation T: + 44 1908 580 400 M: + 44 7810 526 317 F: + 44 1908 580 411 E: [log in to unmask] W: www.indium.com Pb-free: www.Pb-Free.com -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jason Gregory Sent: 11 April 2006 18:38 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] RD Technologies Vapor Phase Users Hi Ramon, Pros: -Ability to process problematic high temp boards (thicker than .063", high layer counts, etc.) and not have to jack with as many variables as in convection or IR -Excellent thermal equilibrium across the assembly and not having to worry about shadowing or thermal thieving -Probing your board to determine preheat and then knowing your peak area's temp already and looking through a little window to observe reflow and giving an extra 15 or 20 seconds over for wetting Cons: -Fluid is expensive and if you have excess dragout, you will notice financially. Fluid is about $1000/gallon -Higher than usual expectations for tombstoning if your board design is a little lopsided (heavy ground planes connected to one side of passives) or if your process is a little off. -Machine is a booger to clean Jason Gregory Manufacturing Engineer Innova Electronics (281)653-5593 (281)653-5594 fax (281)594-0602 cell [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dehoyos, Ramon Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:36 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] RD Technologies Vapor Phase Users Hi Jason: I believe that Vapor phase has a lot of good merits. Could you share your experience with the machine? Pros and Cons. Regards, Ramon -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jason Gregory Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:13 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] RD Technologies Vapor Phase Users Hello Steve, We have a RD here and we use Galden HS-260 Jason Gregory Manufacturing Engineer Innova Electronics (281)653-5593 (281)653-5594 fax (281)594-0602 cell [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Gregory Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:33 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] RD Technologies Vapor Phase Users Mornin' All! I've just got the opportunity to work with a new vapor phase reflow system here at my new position. It's a RD Technologies RD3 with a vapor recovery system. We're in the process of hooking it up, we haven't yet started it up. I worked with a vapor phase many years ago (1988), and this system is much nicer than what I remember about the system I worked with in the past. I was wondering if there are any RD Technologies users out there that have any "words of wisdom" that they might share with me about the system I'm that going to be working with. BTW, we're going to using Galden heat transfer fluids. Kind regards, -Steve Gregory- Senior Production Engineer OAI Electronics 6960 East 12th Street Tulsa, Oklahoma 74112 (918) 836-0507 (918) 706-2779 CELL (918) 836-0184 FAX --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- ***This email, its content and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may be legally privileged and/or confidential. 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