Hello Valerie: Would it be fair to encourage the laminate suppliers to place within their respective specifications sheets whether the material in question can with stand the increased solder-float as per UL? In addition, should not the maximum exposure temp (Td) be higher than 288 to allow for vagaries of individual processing? What is your view? Charlie McMahon -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Valerie St.Cyr Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 4:51 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] SV: [TN] SV: [TN] Qualification of the Pb-free capable manufacturers Inge, This appears to be a presentation from UL showing what services they provide to the electronics industry. Reading between the lines, it appears that they are saying that they are increasing their solder float temperature to 288C as a response to "industry suggested" - they, UL, did not come up with that number. There is nothing special about 288C other than it is 550F which is 10% higher than 500F, which was the solder float temperature to establish PTH reliability in concert with IPC-6012. I don't know the origin of the setting of 500F value. So, 288C is 10% higher than 260C, and if you believe that LF assembly temps will be up to 260C, then you might want to test to 288C to determine if you have any margin in the design/material/fabrication produced PCB. Werner, Very few, in fact none so far, of the older or new materials that we have tested can get to T288 => 45 minutes; we haven't even tried T320. But unless it is polyimide I have a hard time believing it will make =>25 mins. The only caveat is that the test is not as "standardized" as having a standard would have you believe! Regards, Valerie Ingemar Hernefjord <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> 12/14/2005 05:07 PM Please respond to TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to Ingemar Hernefjord <[log in to unmask]> To [log in to unmask] cc Subject [TN] SV: [TN] SV: [TN] Qualification of the Pb-free capable manufacturers http://www.ul.com/pwb/LeadfreeAndPresentationProceedings.pdf page 38. what do they point at then? Inge -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] För Werner Engelmaier Skickat: den 14 december 2005 20:56 Till: [log in to unmask] Ämne: Re: [TN] SV: [TN] Qualification of the Pb-free capable manufacturers Hi Inge, I do not know abput UL's proposal, but there are some defined conditions: T260, T288, T300 & T320 defining temperatures at which time to delamination is measured up to 45 minutes--I also do not know who came up with this measure [288°C???]. Standard FR-4 has a T260 of less thasn 30 minutes and a T288 of less than 5 minutes, whereas a high Tg/highTd material has a T288 of 45 minutes and a T320 of about 25 minutes. Werner --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 12/16/2005 --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------