Gerard, So, the days of Black Pad are over, eh? Tell that to XXX Analytical Services in Minneapolis. I know they have more than one analysis going on to confirm the presence of ENIG plating issues. The symptoms are the classic "cracked mud" appearance of the nickel under the gold. Tell that to YYY Labs. They have been doing analysis on several ENIG issues in the past few weeks. Tell that to the folks at many other fabricators struggling to fix ENIG plating issues. They may not all admit it, but there are many who are still struggling with the reliability problems inherent to ENIG. One of the reasons two different fabricators closed down in the Twin Cities area last year was due to liability issues with ENIG plating. Not the only reasons, but definitely a big factor. Sorry to be so negative. But I have to tell you that what I see and what you are saying are two completely different things. Mr. Parker has company. Lots of it. You may not be aware of it. That does not mean the problems don't exist. The problems are beginning to be better understood. And once again I state that ENIG is a good finish, if done properly. And once again, for sure, it is not the best finish to use with area array packages such as BGAs, interposed components, and CSPs. You cannot deny that nickel's dissolution into the IMF is much more difficult to achieve, requires higher reflow temperatures at a longer time. This is exacerbated by the fact that array packages induce an insulating affect to the solder joints underneath. Yes, to all of you who will respond that you never have had a problem with it. That is good, you have a good supplier. Stick with it. But too often it is not, and the results are absolutely devastating to the end customer who ships his product everywhere, only to see their product fail in the field. It has happened to more than one company that I have worked at. No matter what anyone tells me, it presents a risk I would rather not take. I have pushed many other companies other than the ones I worked for directly to switch to immersion silver, if the finish is the proper one for the service environment. They all have, with good results. I am sorry, but I have not a single problem to report with immersion silver. None. I can think of over 20 major programs I was involved with that are using it. Military programs are using it. High-frequency/high-impedance telecommunications companies are using it. Medical programs are using it. They have all been using it for more than 4 years now. And as long as I continue to hear of the ENIG horror stories elsewhere, I will try to stay away from it. How anyone can state that there are no more problems with ENIG in the face of reams of articles, white papers, and reports in every single major industrial magazine related to electronics assembly, and every single major trade show, etc. in the past few years is mind-boggling. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gerard O'Brien Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 7:51 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Hasl Lee - as co-chairman of 4552 I have to take exception to your continuing negative comments on ENIG. You may be the most unlucky individual on the planet continuously finding the remaining bad ENIG suppliers, but ENIG is a mature, high reliable surface finish. We created the 4552 document to be used to weed out the bad suppliers as well as defining a realistic deposit thickness to provide a reliable surface finish with excellent solderability and shelf life. The days of "black pad", whatever the true definition is, are over. Both myself and my committee would be delighted to review your data that has the black pad phenomena tied directly to a deposit over 4 micro inches, perhaps you could stop by the 4-14 meeting at Los Vegas. Chemical suppliers, FAB houses and industry have worked to produce a deposit that is multifunctional and world class. If you read the technical paper in the back of 4552, you will see that a 1 micro inch deposit was tested as the lowest deposit thickness, which I am still testing in real time, unprotected going on for 42 months. We obviously did not spec 1 micro inch minimum as it is not a practical deposit thickness to maintain on a daily basis, but it proves the point that thin I Au protects the underlying Ni very well, contrary to you own experiences unfortunately. Regards Gerard O'Brien Co-chairman 4-14 . -----Original Message----- From: Lee Parker [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 9:45 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Hasl Joel I am glad to here that you are successfully using ENIG boards; unfortunately this has not been the case with some other OEMs and CMs. Almost every week in this forum, I see a report of a problem with ENIG. I myself spent this spring moving several clients from ENIG to other solderability coatings. It has been my experience that if the gold thickness is <2 microinches there is a serious risk of poor solderability. If the gold thickness is> 4 microinches black pad may become a problem. The issue can also be elevated or diminished by the particular plating chemistry and the ability of the fabricator to control the process. Consequently, I often work with clients to evaluate and migrate too other hard metal finishes such as immersion silver and flash gold. The attributes of immersion silver have been discussed here at length many times and I am an advocate. I installed the first immersion silver line in North America at the AT&T plant in Richmond. I then worked with most of the AT&T assembly locations to verify the process. Flash gold is more recent and is found mostly in Chinese PCB shops where it has been resurrected and improved upon. In fact, we used a similar process at the AT&T facility in Richmond many years ago for "other" OEM boards. Most Chinese shops have installed the process and have made substantial improvements. The price is competitive. I along with others will be giving a paper on this process at the IPC February meeting. As an aside, this is probably the first novel technology innovation to originate in the Chinese PCB industry and we should all take notice. I believe we are seeing the same ingenuity in the Chinese PCB shops that Marco Polo found on his first visit to China when he returned to Venice with firecrackers and gun power. Best regards Lee J. L. Parker Ph.D. JLP Consultants LLC (804) 779 3389 -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joel Mearig Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 3:54 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Hasl Lee, Good input that I agree with. However, I was wondering if you could further discuss the "flash" vs. "ENIG" issue. I have been using ENIG on my Pb-free assemblies for about 7 years with very little problems. If I am missing something further education would be extremely helpful. Thanks Joel Mearig Delta Tau Data Systems, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lee parker Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 10:03 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Hasl Ramon After reflowing a soldered surface, you will form a meniscus which will interfere with SMT component placement. To avoid the problem I suggest a flat metal finish such as immersion silver or flash gold (not ENIG) Best regards Lee J. Lee Parker, Ph.D. JLP Consultants LLC 804 779 3389 ----- Original Message ----- From: Dehoyos, Ramon<mailto:[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 12:52 PM Subject: [TN] Hasl Hi technetters: Is there a fine pitch limit to the use of HASL board plating finish due to its variation in thickness? Does selective solder strip and reflow plating, SSSR, have a significant advantage over HASL? Any comments relating to platting finish would be greatly appreciated. I thank you for your comments. Ramon ME 410.552.2210 --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives<http://listserv.ipc.org/archives> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16<http://www.ipc.org/cont en tp age.asp?Pageid=4.3.16> for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------