Amen, and Amen! Roger -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ingemar Hernefjord (KC/EMW) Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 6:52 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] New IPC email forum Would like to add this: what's the angry young mens definition of the word 'fabricator'. Me stupid. Myself, I'm representing a pretty big company with own printed circuit manufacturing as well as large scale assembly, R&D, CADing, machining own metal structures, chemistry labs, worldwide equipment installation, and much more. TN seems to have many such members: Lockheed, IBM, MOTA, NASA, just to mention a few. However, we use to have a problem, namely to cooperate within our own huge organisations, you must be well familiar with that! Sometimes I feel like my own company is not one but a conglomerate of many small units that compete (little exaggerated, but a feeling many have). So, again, what is your definition of the mystic 'fabricator' that might be your saviour? I have made attempts to spread TN within the house, but, listen: most people are alreay 100 engaged in such a lot of webbing, and administration, and meetings, and courses, and seminars, and travels, and reporting, and reading and writing and hardworking, that they do simply not bear more! The kind answers I use to get is: very interesting, when you get something useful on TN, please tell us. Be our contact. But we don't have time ourselves. So, I'm dropping this and that on their desk, and pick up what can be of interest for TN. Still, the printed circuit is the foot on which the giant stands. And will so be. Without all your PWB manufacturing skill, the giant would not be able to walk. Amen. Ingemar Hernefjord Ericsson Microwave Systems Division of Global Ericsson -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Brian Ellis Sent: den 6 oktober 2005 09:35 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] New IPC email forum Has no one ever heard of concurrent engineering? If there were no assemblers to give feedback to the fab guys and no fab guys to tell the assemblers what they can or cannot do, then we would have no industry at all. I'll go farther, the designers must be in the equation, AND the development engineers, AND the purchasing managers. If we cannot all talk with one voice or sing the same song, then we are wasting valuable company funds. All these guys MUST talk with each other, all the time and any schism is counter-productive. Even if we work in different factories doing different jobs, our aim is to produce one single article as economically as possible, while respecting the technical imperatives. Splitting knowledge apart will not achieve this and, taking this to a logical conclusion, we shall split the IPC into two or more separate organisations, each believing they are holier than the others, with zero dialogue. Personally, I have been professionally working with printed circuitry since 1955 (yes, 50 whole years!!!) and I have had deep experience in all the aspects of the business from being a development engineer, through designer and vendor of designing tools, director of a high-tech PCB fab plant, assembler AND purchaser and I **KNOW** that you cannot isolate any one aspect from the others. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that most, possibly as much as 90%, of the problems encountered within our industry are because of lack of communications between the various factions who prefer to isolate themselves in an ivory tower and hope the rest of the world bends round their ideas. So, in the name of sanity and efficiency in our industry, do NOT split (rather, merge more of the guys in the equation. Brian Franklin Asbell wrote: > With a show of hands (yes, we can see you) how many out there would be > interested in subscribing to an IPC email forum for pcb (rigid, flex, > rigid-flex, hi-rel, mil, etc) fabrication topics. > > Franklin > > --------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To > unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt > or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET > Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the > posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the > archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please > visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 > for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at > [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 > ----------------------------------------------------- > -- ______________________________________________ Please note new e-mail address [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------