I guess that if you want to learn and at the same time pass on experience, you need a forum where you are able to learn from your peer group and also to teach in the same forum where you may have extensive experience on a particular issue. That is the point of a forum like Technet - I started the UK based trade association the SMART (Surface Mounted And Related Technologies) Group in 1984 on just that principal, a forum where data could be shared and peoples' learning curve reduced significantly. So I do not find it surprising that the level of data sharing is high, I was not surprised for instance at the 6 mil drilled hole comments - if you have ever tried it you will know that the major issues are getting a good drill source, beyond that you need to turbo charge your drilling machine to 180K RPM and beyond and then there is positioning accuracy and debris removal....8-).......use a laser....... These points and others like them are well known if you take the time to fly around the world and visit various companies, but all it will give you is a starting point. The real key to using information is to have the engineering vision and expertise to apply it and be able to produce the result cost effectiveley and repeatably in a commercial environment, otherwise the data is only that - data. If you really want to keep things to yourself, patent it..........the world will be aware of it, will either infringe it pay royalties on it, or challenge it, but at least you can hang the certificates on the wall.............8-) I believe that the technet is a very useful forum. I can however see the need for an alternate forum for high technology PCB's since I have managed to fall off the edge of technology twice in the last couple of years with high later count boards using 10 mil drilled vias in thich boards, we actually reached the limits of the laws of fluid dynamics for the in hole solution changeover which we proved by designing a test coupon to show definitively where the process capability ended. For these issues, Technet may not be the right forum, since when I explain what I do with high tech circuit boards to most people on the manufacturing side (and I am one) a glazed look comes into their eyes. For the record, if anyone wants to know how to connect 40 micron pitch flip chip on flex, control an anisotropic bonding machine in real time using real time bond line resistance measurements, or how to get absolute Z axis depth accuracy on back drilled backplanes, I would be happy to send them copies of my patents.............. I believe information sharing is a good thing, if it really is worth protecting - do it through the patent office. In the meantime Technetters, keep up the good work, and have a great weekend wherever in the owrld you are. John Burke Santa Clara California ------------------------------------ Avanex John Burke Senior Manager RoHS Compliance [log in to unmask] 40919 Encyclopedia Circle Fremont CA 94538 tel: 510 897 4250 fax: 510 979 0189 mobile: 510 676 6312 ------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Valerie St.Cyr Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 8:26 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Fabricators and information passage Rudy, I'm either not understanding what you are saying, or if I do understand it, I disagree. Most of the information passed on TechNet is in the public domain; it is stuff we learn from tech articles and seminars and stuff that "everyone knows" who has been around awhile. I don't think anyone is passing on intellectual property via tech net, no matter where they come from. Did you mean to imply that other cultures (other than American?) are more open and sharing ?? ..... There are a lot of American technetters that give a lot to this and the other forums. The actually percentage of participation by "culture", since it is a self-selecting group, can't be used as a barometer. For instance, if you proportioned the participation by dollars-shipped per country, that would change the percentage participation as a function of dollars per technetter, to show higher participation by Americans ... Did I totally not "get it" - what you were trying to convey? Valerie R Sedlak <[log in to unmask]> 10/06/2005 06:19 PM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: Fabricators and information passage In fact, the amount of information passed around on Technet is slightly astonishing, that it is done so easily, and freely.... I find it telling that the participation on Technet does not reflect the national distribution of PCB production... that is to say, the majority of the participants on Technet come from cultures that are more open, and sharing... Rudy Sedlak RD Chemical Company Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------