And what about the possibility of resulting intermittent failures? Bev RIM -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jason Gregory Sent: September 28, 2005 10:34 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] X-ray inspection damaging components... Surely one could functionally test a known good part, then subject it to incrementally increasing amounts of X-rays to eventually arrive a failure point, then log the results...but could such a test be deemed accurate? I would imagine that different components (same part number, package, etc.) would suffer different levels of failure, however slight or large. Porbably is true that the component makers just want to be sure, so they use substantially lower numbers to ensure that their products are "safe" and usable. But, at what point can the engineer, like Steve, say "130 kV is too much, but 90 kV is just fine". Just gambling. Jason Gregory Manufacturing Engineer Innova Electronics (281)653-5593 (281)653-5594 fax (281)212-0844 cell [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Franklin Asbell Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:17 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] X-ray inspection damaging components... My first question at such a technical meeting would be How much exposure will damage the part? I'm sure if you place the part in the chamber, turn on the xray and go to lunch you might have some problems. But would seconds, cause damage? What might be happening is component vendors want to protect their product and obviously so, so they place tighter than required standards on them, what is the time to failure under 90kv at 20mA, and at 50mA, and at 90mA? What is time to failure under 40kv at 90mA for 5 seconds? Or 30 seconds? Just some things I would try to answer during such an IPC technical activity. Franklin -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:01 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] X-ray inspection damaging components... Good Morning, Stephen! This is good information. So now we have component vendors telling us some of their components should not be overexposed to X-rays. Was there any type of notation on the part print? The industry needs a standard. We need to have some type of rating system for components that can be damaged by X-rays. Jack, is there any activity going on with this within IPC? -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Gregory Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:50 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] X-ray inspection damaging components... Morning All! I submitted a question to Altera via their email support center about x-ray inspection possibly damaging a EPM7256EEFI100-7 device. The device is a EEPROM made using an advanced CMOS process. Here is our exchange so far: >Request No: 10515187 Status: Close-Pending Date Opened (PDT): 9/26/2005 >07:24 AM Date Closed (PDT): >Inquiry Type: Product Question >Device Family: Device: >Title: X-ray inspection of devices > >Description: I am doing x-ray inspection of a EPM7256AEFI100-7 device after board assembly. >The PCB has a 1.27mm thick copper core in the center of it, so it >requires that a high kv x-ray must >be done in order to see the solder connections of the device. The x-ray source power is around >120-130kv. Will this x-ray power level damage the device? > >Thank-you, > >-Stephen Gregory- >Process Engineer >LaBarge Inc. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- > >Updates 1 - 2 of 2 Add an Update / Previous / Next > >Date Created (PDT) 9/27/2005 07:44 PM > >To Customer: > >Hi Stephen, > >Typically assembly uses 90KV using 10 to 20mA with a few second for inspection of IC package. Our >recommendation will be a pro-rated 130KV with 7mA to 13mA for a few second. Note that Prolong exposure >under X-ray will definitely damage the device. I hope it's helpful to you. > >Best Regards, >Daniel Cao My question is; doesn't the figure of 90KV at 10-20mA seem pretty low? My current Glenbrook RTX-113 operates at 35-52KV at 20-50mA, and higher-end Glenbrook systems will pump 70-90KV at 90-100mA. Right now, I'm using a Fein Focus Tiger 160 for x-ray inspection of some copper cored assemblies that we're building because I have to, that's the only way we can inspect the BGA's. The copper core in the PCB won't allow x-ray of the BGA's unless you use a system that can penetrate the core. But if these devices can be damaged at such a low voltage (if indeed Daniel's figures are correct), shouldn't Altera issue some sort of warning to their customers about x-ray damaging the devices? After all, there will be a lot of customers using x-ray for inspection. Kind regards, -Steve Gregory- Senior Process Engineer LaBarge Incorporated Tulsa, Oklahoma (918) 459-2285 (918) 459-2350 FAX __________________________________________________________________ This message may contain information that is privileged and confidential to LaBarge, Inc. It is for use only by the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not copy, use or deliver this message to anyone. 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