Ramon, I am so glad to be of help. Perhaps I can provide more helpful information on the scoring vs. routing for the rest of the forum? Within IPC 7095A on page 65 and 66 is a description of different methods of panelization. Look at figure 7-5 and understand each of the dimensions and what it does. This drawing can be used directly on the pwb fabrication print and dimensioned as appropriate. Make sure the pwb company has input on the dimensions, as most fabricators have a lot of experience with scoring. I am surprised at how many do not know very much about this, but here in the Midwest I know of hundreds of companies using it rather than routing/ratbites. The CAB machines for depaneling work exceptionally well. I prefer the motorized version, however many operators like the manual versions just as much. While they look dangerous, they are not. I have never seen or heard of anybody getting hurt on one. The are not sharp, as you noted, but work extremely well in singulating the panels without applying any stress. The information on 7095A pg 65 and 66 is somewhat limited in the amount of "possibilities" of potential panelization schemes that can save so many companies out there thousands of dollars in fabrication costs, design simplification, reduced scrap costs, and evade the tooling costs of automatic depaneling equipment. Remember, the dust is considered a very hazardous by-product of these automatic milling machines. But there is a niche for them in high-volume applications where the design does not work well for scoring. One key idea in considering a scheme for depaneling is to use routing combined with score lines. Think outside of the box, ie, the route can extend slightly past the score line to get a clean corner. You can run the pizza cutter right through a route or other gap without any problems. The bottom blade on the depaneling machine keeps the board traveling in a straight line even when the upper wheel bumps through gaps and routes. Cost savings can be realized in the design process, as the designers hate having to determine the route widths, the drill pattern dimensioning, etc. that the route/ratbite method requires. What could be easier than dimensioning a score line that defines the side of two adjacent pwbs within the panel? Other things to watch: Keep the components at least .050" away from the scored edge. If overhanging connectors are required, put them all on two opposing sides of the pwb (routed) so that the score lines can run on the other two sides, etc. There are a lot of considerations and planning to come up with a good panel format that provides the least cost of fabrication, cost of de-paneling, cost for design, etc. But the possibilites for different schemes are endless, and the potential cost savings are huge. And happy Friday, all. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dehoyos, Ramon Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 7:46 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Mouse Bites Hi Richard: The under 4K that you are referring to is the 3E?. I talked with Joe Komus from CAB and he explained to me in detailed the simple and at the same time effective method their equipment uses. He said that 90% of their customers uses the groove paneling that is broken by a pizza cutter type of blade that is not even sharp, no dust nor smell. Thank you for enlighten me on this matter. No, I did not know depaneling except the expensive routers that chew up boards and make a lot of dust and stink. Once again have a great day and you made my day. Regards, Ramon -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 12:19 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Mouse Bites Ramon, You may already be aware of this, but panelization using scored lines and a depaneling machine ($4000 or less from CAB) works much better than tabs/mousebites. The routing required to get the tabs, and the tiny holes required to drill the mousebites into the tabs quickly drives up the cost of the fab pwb. I even use scored grooves in combination with some milling in order to avoid the mousebite/tab method of panelization if the pwb has irregular sides or curves. There are no expensive routers to buy, the skill level required to depanel is greatly reduced, the cost of the fab is greatly reduced, and the problems associated with depaneling mousebites is eliminated (pulled soldermask, damaged boards, etc.). Also, no stress is placed on the components when the depaneling is done with the CAB machines, as they separate the pwbs in a lateral direction, as opposed to the stress applied if the depaneling is done by "breaking" the assembly out of the panel via the mousebite tabs. However, I know there are some designs where you cannot depanel any other way. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jerry Dengler Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 1:49 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Mouse Bites Ramon, Mouse bites in the middle of the break away tabs are hard on operators hands after de-panelization. They may interfere with board mounting. They look bad on the finished board. Other than these points they can work fine. Jerry Dengler Production Manager Pergamon Corporation PH: 610-239-0721 Fax: 610-239-0720 -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dehoyos, Ramon Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:37 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Mouse Bites Hi Technetters: Panelized boards are connected through mouse bites to the break away tabs. It is my understanding and I see the reason for the mouse bites to be close to the board. Does anybody out there have experience with mouse bites placed in the middle, between the boards and the tabs, or close to the break away tab? The material used is FR4. Regards, Ramon Note: On a post a few weeks ago about dry boards. I found out that there are two types of dry board markers regular and low odor markers and two types of dry boards. Low odor markers are the new type available and stay on the old type of dry boards( hard to erase). The new type of boards are sleeker. The solution I found out was to go to Home Depot and buy a 4' X 8' dry board sheet for $9.95 and replace the old board with the new by using the old frame and it works. --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------