Richard: It is a typo, it should have said no-no (no no). The software corrected it to be noon. I hope it does not correct it again. Regards, Ramon -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 10:07 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Question on cleaning boards with BGA. Ramon, It is of a different frequency. When I first purchased it, I bought it from Crest Ultrasonics in North Dakota. The tech rep was very knowledgeable. He told me that it operated at a different frequency from the Branson units, and it would not harm (or be less likely to harm) the components. I do not recall the frequency, but I am sure they can pass that info on. An excellent article was written about this and is listed in the American Competitiveness Institute (ACI) archives available online. I purchased these Crest units for two companies I used to work for, and I was told that they have been working extremely well. It has now been 4 years since I purchased the first unit. What did you mean by "US cleaning is a noon for PWAs"? -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dehoyos, Ramon Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:34 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Question on cleaning boards with BGA. Hi Richard: I have known from different sources including this forum that US cleaning is a noon for PWAs. I read an article from China that they have developed a US cleaning using a different frequency that does not damage components of any kind. It seems that your US cleaner might be of the frequency that does not damage components. Regards, Ramon -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:46 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Question on cleaning boards with BGA. I actually have component application info from at least two BGA manufacturers that include US cleaning info, and one (Intel) actually recommends cleaning with US and a mix of hot de-ionized water mixed with a saponifier. So I question the statement that US causes cracked solder joints. I do know that it can damage certain components with a resonant cavity. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David D. Hillman Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:39 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Question on cleaning boards with BGA. Hi Paul! What is the physics behind the ultrasonic cleaning system causing cracked BGA solder joints? Is your comment based on published data or internal data? Dave Hillman Rockwell Collins [log in to unmask] Paul Edwards <paul@SURFACE-ART .COM> To Sent by: TechNet [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> cc Subject 08/02/2005 09:41 Re: [TN] Question on cleaning PM boards with BGA. Please respond to TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]> ; Please respond to Paul Edwards <paul@SURFACE-ART .COM> Never use an ultrasonic cleaning system with BGAs unless you want to generate cracked solder joints... Assuming your ECN is at the former label location which is why you need complete adhesive removal... find out from your label supplier what type of adhesive they are using and have them suggest something... We use an alcohol/glycol/water mix to remove most label adhesives... Paul Edwards Surface Art Engineering -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Harman Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 4:58 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Question on cleaning boards with BGA. We are remanufacturing (reworking some of product) due to an ECR release. We apply a label with non-conductive adhesive that once removed leaves adhesive on the PCBA. This adhesive prevents the board from passing due to not making contact. The current process requires an operator to use IPA and a soft scrub to remove it. This process is time consuming. My CM has suggested that we ultrasonic the boards using S-10 solvent. My boards have BGAs, interconnect pins, and switches along with the normal SMT parts. Will using this s-10 solvent in an ultrasonic cleaner work, and will it not cause any reliability issues with BGAs or other parts on the boards? Anyone have any other suggestions for auto cleaning my boards to remove the adhesive. We use the no clean process. --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------