Gee, I'm glad I am in design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tough crowd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Deac Work phone: (603) 886-8711 ext.202 Cell : (603) 557-7568 -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Hodge Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 3:37 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations. George, I am sorry you feel you have to downgrade my opinion as being a sales pitch or "wife's tail". I am stating data -substantiated facts and I could care less about selling something to you or anyone else. A wife's tail? What? My wife does not have a tail. I think it should be "wive's tale" anyway. At 12:30 PM 08/11/2005, you wrote: >John, > >Your opinionated! but then too so am I. However, it sounds like our >opinions are based on data and not "wife's tails" or "sales pitches" > >Regards, >George >George M. Wenger >Reliability / FMA Engineer >Base Station and Subsystems Group >Andrew Corporation, 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059 (908) 546-4531 >[log in to unmask] > > >-----Original Message----- >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of John Burke >Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:16 PM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations. > > >Very nice, > >Until you consider that ENIG infringes the design rules for at least one of >the top 3 global CM's due to the issues associated with it. > >If you want the number of their chief technologist who has to look at enigma >failures week in week out I will happily supply details off line. > >I personally have built hundreds of thousands of assemblies on ENIG as well >as Immersion AG. > >As for the rest, HASL is generally failure related to a complete lack of >understanding of tin thickness and intermetallic growth rate, OSP failures >generally are related to not understanding the degradation of that finish >with multiple reflow cycling, and personally I would never use immersion tin >without some type of diffusion barrier between it and the copper if nay time >in storage was to be considered. > >The ENIG when it fails can be catastrophic............and in most cases can >be pointed back to the process at the fab house rather than what happened to >it during the assembly process, unlike most of the other finish defects, and >has to my knowledge resulted in multi million dollar lawsuits between >companies in the bay area due to failures. > >If it doesn't fail - it is fine, but the joint shear strength is less than >the equivalent HASL or immersion AG finish due to the Tin nickel/nickel >copper crystalline structure, so taking into consideration the higher >temperatures of lead free I would be vary careful using it for area array >packages using this soldering technology. > >For the record have been using immersion silver since 1996 as I produced the >first beta site production runs using alpha level, so perhaps my views have >a little more history. > >Call me opinionated - I'll take it. > >John > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ >Avanex >John Burke >Senior Manager RoHS Compliance >[log in to unmask] >40919 Encyclopedia Circle >Fremont >CA 94538 >tel: 510 897 4250 >fax: 510 979 0189 >mobile: 510 676 6312 >------------------------------------ > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Hodge [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:44 AM >To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; John Burke >Subject: Re: <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations. > > >John, come on now. Anything can happen at any time. I have seen some >reservations from the IS users as to silver migration possibilities and >shelf life/handling issues --you might say they have not seen them --"yet". >I have had more problems with HASL, OSP and IT than I have with ENIG. ENIG >has longer data history than IS, so both shoes have already dropped so to >speak. Three years without problems, is an eternity in this business, >especially when we are expected to build custom products in 24 hours. > > >At 11:00 AM 08/11/2005, you wrote: > >with it............YET.......... > > > >------------------------------------ > >Avanex > >John Burke > >Senior Manager RoHS Compliance > >[log in to unmask] > >40919 Encyclopedia Circle > >Fremont > >CA 94538 > >tel: 510 897 4250 > >fax: 510 979 0189 > >mobile: 510 676 6312 > >------------------------------------ > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Edwin Louis > >Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 4:48 AM > >To: [log in to unmask] > >Subject: Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations. > > > > > >We have been using ENIG now for about three years and have had no bad > >experiences with it. NASA for one does not allow the use of silver . > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Werner Engelmaier > >Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:57 PM > >To: [log in to unmask] > >Subject: Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations. > > > >Hi Steve, > >I do not know about "bad-mouth ENIG"--I am a reliability consultant, and > >have > >had plenty of calls because of ENIG related failures, but not a one about > >iAg. On the other hand, I do not know about their respective environmental > >implications. > > > >Regards, > >Werner Engelmaier > >Engelmaier Associates, L.C. > >Electronic Packaging, Interconnection and Reliability Consulting > >7 Jasmine Run > >Ormond Beach, FL 32174 USA > >Phone: 386-437-8747, Fax: 386-437-8737, Cell: 386-316-5904 > >E-mail: [log in to unmask], Website: www.engelmaier.com > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------- > >Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > >To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > >Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 > >for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > >847-615-7100 ext.2815 > >----------------------------------------------------- > > > >--------------------------------------------------- > >Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > >To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > >Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 > >for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > >847-615-7100 ext.2815 > >----------------------------------------------------- > > > >--------------------------------------------------- > >Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > >To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > >Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 > >for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > >847-615-7100 ext.2815 > >----------------------------------------------------- > > >--------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 >for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or >847-615-7100 ext.2815 >----------------------------------------------------- > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- >This message is for the designated recipient only and may >contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. >If you have received it in error, please notify the sender >immediately and delete the original. 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