Heh heh, Not sure the BGA was around when that paper was written.................8-) John ------------------------------------ Avanex John Burke Senior Manager RoHS Compliance [log in to unmask] 40919 Encyclopedia Circle Fremont CA 94538 tel: 510 897 4250 fax: 510 979 0189 mobile: 510 676 6312 ------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 4:44 AM To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask] Cc: [log in to unmask] Subject: RE: [TN] Question on cleaning boards with BGA. The article is great reading. However, I did not see any component listing for Ball Grid Array. Does this mean that USC can harm this type of interconnection. Victor, -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Burke Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 1:23 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Question on cleaning boards with BGA. You can download the complete paper fro here: http://www.aqueoustech.com/images/KB/Ultrasonic%20Cleaning%20of%20Military%2 0PWAs.pdf John ------------------------------------ Avanex John Burke Senior Manager RoHS Compliance [log in to unmask] 40919 Encyclopedia Circle Fremont CA 94538 tel: 510 897 4250 fax: 510 979 0189 mobile: 510 676 6312 ------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 11:17 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Question on cleaning boards with BGA. Found it! http://www.empf.org/library/abstracts/ts0040.html -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Tremmel Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 9:22 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Question on cleaning boards with BGA. Hello, Could you share the URL for the ACI article on US cleaning? David Tremmel Technical Manager Belmont Trading Mexico Cell - (847) 858-5540 >From: "Stadem, Richard" <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, "Stadem, >Richard" <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: [TN] Question on cleaning boards with BGA. >Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 09:06:49 -0500 > >Ramon, >It is of a different frequency. When I first purchased it, I bought it >from Crest Ultrasonics in North Dakota. The tech rep was very >knowledgeable. He told me that it operated at a different frequency >from the Branson units, and it would not harm (or be less likely to >harm) the components. I do not recall the frequency, but I am sure they >can pass that info on. An excellent article was written about this and >is listed in the American Competitiveness Institute (ACI) archives >available online. I purchased these Crest units for two companies I >used to work for, and I was told that they have been working extremely >well. It has now been 4 years since I purchased the first unit. What >did you mean by "US cleaning is a noon for PWAs"? > >-----Original Message----- >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dehoyos, Ramon >Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:34 AM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: [TN] Question on cleaning boards with BGA. > > Hi Richard: > > I have known from different sources including this forum that >US cleaning is a noon for PWAs. I read an article from China that they >have developed a US cleaning using a different frequency that does not >damage components of any kind. It seems that your US cleaner might be >of the frequency that does not damage components. > > Regards, > Ramon > >-----Original Message----- >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard >Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:46 AM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: [TN] Question on cleaning boards with BGA. > >I actually have component application info from at least two BGA >manufacturers that include US cleaning info, and one (Intel) actually >recommends cleaning with US and a mix of hot de-ionized water mixed >with a saponifier. So I question the statement that US causes cracked >solder joints. I do know that it can damage certain components with a >resonant cavity. > >-----Original Message----- >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David D. Hillman >Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:39 AM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: [TN] Question on cleaning boards with BGA. > >Hi Paul! What is the physics behind the ultrasonic cleaning system >causing cracked BGA solder joints? Is your comment based on published >data or internal data? > >Dave Hillman >Rockwell Collins >[log in to unmask] > > > > > Paul Edwards > <paul@SURFACE-ART > .COM> >To > Sent by: TechNet [log in to unmask] > <[log in to unmask]> >cc > > >Subject > 08/02/2005 09:41 Re: [TN] Question on cleaning > PM boards with BGA. > > > Please respond to > TechNet E-Mail > Forum > <[log in to unmask]> > ; Please respond > to > Paul Edwards > <paul@SURFACE-ART > .COM> > > > > > > >Never use an ultrasonic cleaning system with BGAs unless you want to >generate cracked solder joints... > >Assuming your ECN is at the former label location which is why you need >complete adhesive removal... find out from your label supplier what >type of adhesive they are using and have them suggest something... > >We use an alcohol/glycol/water mix to remove most label adhesives... > >Paul Edwards >Surface Art Engineering > > >-----Original Message----- >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Harman >Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 4:58 PM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: [TN] Question on cleaning boards with BGA. > > We are remanufacturing (reworking some of product) due to an ECR >release. We apply a label with non-conductive adhesive that once >removed leaves adhesive on the PCBA. This adhesive prevents the board >from passing due to not making contact. The current process requires >an operator to use IPA and a soft scrub to remove it. This process is >time consuming. My CM has suggested that we ultrasonic the boards >using S-10 solvent. > > > >My boards have BGAs, interconnect pins, and switches along with the >normal SMT parts. Will using this s-10 solvent in an ultrasonic >cleaner work, and will it not cause any reliability issues with BGAs or >other parts on the boards? > > > >Anyone have any other suggestions for auto cleaning my boards to remove >the adhesive. We use the no clean process. > >--------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To >unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt >or >(re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET >Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the >posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the >archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please >visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for >additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or >847-615-7100 ext.2815 >----------------------------------------------------- > >--------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To >unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt >or >(re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET >Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the >posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the >archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please >visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for >additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or >847-615-7100 ext.2815 >----------------------------------------------------- > >--------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To >unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt >or >(re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET >Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the >posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the >archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please >visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for >additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or >847-615-7100 ext.2815 >----------------------------------------------------- > >--------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To >unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt >or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing >per day of all the posts: send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search the archives of previous posts at: >http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site >http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 >for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] >or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 >----------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ ¿Cuánto vale tu auto? Tips para mantener tu carro. ¡De todo en MSN Latino Autos! http://latino.msn.com/autos/ --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------