The closest to success we come is involving the following folks for a design review: Designer Assembly Engineer Component Engineer Test Engineer Then, we pull in the supplier and do it again. It can be a lot of fun! We get into conversations like this. The assembly engineer says, "I need fiducials." The design engineer says, "You can't put them there." The Component Engineer says, "How will the supplier build it like that?" Hopefully, all the tradeoffs are discussed so everyone gets what they need. Glenn -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ken McGee Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 8:38 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] design verification Haha I agree with you Graham. I come from 20 years in assembly. So I do look at things from that angle. Now I have to start looking at them from the electronics side too. Ken McGee, C.I.D. Engineering Technician Cyberoptics Semiconductor, Inc. P.O. Box 276 Beaverton, OR 97076 503-495-2200 503-495-2201 (fax) -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Graham Collins Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 8:30 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] design verification Hi Ken Well, from the other side of the process (I'm an assembly guy), I have always encouraged the designers to get the design reviewed by the people who will be building it before the layout is set in stone. We may notice things that you won't, and this has saved us some "oh #$#!!" moments. regards, Graham Collins Process Engineer, L-3 Communications Electronic Systems Inc. Halifax (902) 873-2000 ext 6215 >>> [log in to unmask] 07/29/05 12:09PM >>> Hi Folks, 2 years ago my boss gave me the task of learning board layout. It's something I wanted to learn to do, but have been frustrated on the lack of resources available. Over the past 2 years I've managed to learn quite a bit, and each layout I do is progressively more complicated. The last board I worked on, was a very dense 8 layer board, with several .8 mm BGAs. The board is up and running, but there were several mistakes on it, and will have to be turned. I've been trying to think of ways to check and recheck my designs and I wanted to find out what others do to verify the work they've done. Thanks for any input. Kenneth McGee, C.I.D. Engineering Technician Cyberoptics Semiconductor, Inc. P.O. 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