Hi Bill! V-scoring is great for some assemblies, but wreck havoc for others! I will depend on how close components are located to the score line. You can fracture components (especially capacitors) if you're not careful. As to what size is better for your assemblers, (I'm sorry for having to use a registered and copyrighted statement), it depends... As an example, just today one of our buyers wanted me to look at a panel layout of a board we were about to buy that was recommended by one of the board reps that we deal with. The board is about 2" X 12". Good candidate for panelization, right? Sure. Their recomendation was to be a 4-up scored panel, with .5" breakaway rails on the sides. I stopped that as soon as I saw it. It was good for the board house, because they would be able to give us a low price per board...but what we had to do to singulate the individual boards after we assembled them wasn't their problem. There was double-sided SMT, and the passives were all on the bottom...some located pretty close to the board edge. On top of that, they were oriented perpendicular to the board edge...just asking for cracked components or solder joints when trying to separate the the boards after assembly. As a designer, you need to be in tune with who will be building your boards, and what their capabilities are. -Steve Gregory- Lee parker <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Bill Have you considered V-scoring your panels as a way of minimizing waste. Most shops have this capability. after assembly you break the boards out of the subpanel along the V-score line. Best regards Lee J. Lee Parker, Ph.D. JLP Consultants LLC 804 779 3389 ----- Original Message ----- From: Brooks,Bill To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [TN] Standard panel size?... Thanks for responding Lee... After doing some investigation... I'm thinking a 8X10 assembly panel would work well for our assembly folks and still be dividable into a 18X24 or 12X18 panel without difficulty... One shop recommended 8.2 X 11.2 as the maximum assembly panel so it gave them room to put a .100 in router bit down the center and ¾ in. all round the perimeter... another wants .400 in between the boards... still another has many more standard panel sizes to work from and sees no problem with many different configurations... it's a bit 'non-standard' if you ask me... but that's what makes the challenge interesting... I'm wondering what other folks are using for their standard assembly panels... :-) Bill Brooks - KG6VVP PCB Design Engineer, C.I.D.+, C.I.I. Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 Datron World Communications, Inc. _______________________________________ San Diego Chapter of the IPC Designers Council Communications Officer, Web Manager > http://dcchapters.ipc.org/SanDiego/ > http://pcbwizards.com -----Original Message----- From: Lee parker [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 5:20 PM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Brooks,Bill Subject: Re: [TN] Standard panel size?... Bill 18x24 is by far the most popular panel size used in the industry. Most Chinese shops, however, often tailor the panel size to the board or subpanel to optimize panel utilization. I suggest if you are using a Chinese shop you consult with them and take advantage of this benefit. I worked in the AT&T Richmond shop from the day it opened till it was shut down and we never considered multiple sizes to be manageable. After visiting many of the shops in China, I have come to realize that not all knowledge resides in North America. Best regards LeeJ. Lee Parker, Ph.D. JLP Consultants LLC 804 779 3389 ----- Original Message ----- From: Brooks,Bill > To: [log in to unmask] > Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:45 PM Subject: [TN] Standard panel size?... Hi TechNet... We are re-evaluating our board assembly panel sizes and want to get the best yields from our vendor's manufacturing panels when we select the final size of our 'standard' assembly panel... What is your PCB manufacturing 'standard' panel size for glass/epoxy type materials??? Some PCB vendors tell me they have a working panel size of 18x24 inches... what do you use? And why? Thanks in advance for your help... Bill Brooks - KG6VVP PCB Design Engineer, C.I.D.+, C.I.I. Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 Datron World Communications, Inc. _______________________________________ San Diego Chapter of the IPC Designers Council Communications Officer, Web Manager http://dcchapters.ipc.org/SanDiego/ > http://pcbwizards.com > --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] > with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask] > : SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask] > : SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 > for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] > or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------