I may be totally wet but my assumption has been that there needs to be a cavity such as in the QFPs or DIPs for enough moisture to create enough pressure to pop a device. Based on this assumption, perhaps if the cavities were potted after wire bonded there would not be a need for MSL nor the prohibition against ultrasonic cleaning. I have seen some components with a jelly like material inside over the electronic device.............. Just a thought. Ramon -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Ingemar Hernefjord (KC/EMW) Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:53 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Moisture sensitivity levels... Steve, how come that you jumped high so sudden? Have you used some kind of humidity issue filter all these years...he-he..cheating. There is humidity everywhere. Mother nature infiltrates water vapour molecules everywhere she can. We learned that there is humidity even on inside of glass feedtrues, water penetrates deeply into kovar packages, there is water in the solder paste, every single "plastic" has a small amount of water on inside. Water molecules are universal and unavoidable. We had a period of humidity hysteria, digged deeply into the mystery of water penetration mechanisms by means of proffessors and doctors, had seminars, and the learned painted scaring scenarios about all bad things that could occur due to water in the material. We spent a lot of money on residue gas analysis and made lots of MIL STD tests and so on. The years pass and behold, a miracle: there has been no catastroph. Some few reports have been noticed, but the equipments spread all over the globe seem to work, and mounting seems to go on rather free from incidents despite there is water in every single component. So, I wonder if all anti-humidity countermeasures are proportional to the very few failures that occur due to water. My thoughts do not necesserarily represent the general opinion here, I'm just curious about the mystery of water content and others experience. Is humidity a severe problem today? Can anyone give example? (I don't include water that penetrates into packages from the surrounding during field use, but just point at built-in humidity in parts before and during assembly.) Ingemar Hernefjord Ericsson Microwave Systems -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stephen Gregory Sent: den 20 juni 2005 17:26 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Moisture sensitivity levels... Good mornin' all! I hope all you Dads out there had a wonderful Fathers Day! As I posted about a week or so ago, we're getting our stockroom personnel to really focus on component moisture sensitivity levels. But now I'm starting to get a little confused about how components are generally classified with their respective MSL ratings. I've always thought that it had to do with component body size and thickness, but now I'm finding out that it doesn't necessarily. My stockroom clerk showed me an IDT SOJ28 that came in sealed with a MSL 3 rating that we now have in our dry box because the package was opened. We have some Cypress SOJ28's and SOJ24's that are on reels that are not in original packaging, so I called Cypress and asked what the MSL rating is for the two part numbers and they are a MSL 1. Cypress gave me a link to the SRAM Qualification Report that states that. Now my stockroom clerk brought me some Vishay tantalum caps that have a MSL 2a rating label on them, and they are TNTC's. This is THE FIRST time I have ever seen a MSL label on a tantalum capacitor. Are these ratings based on qualification reports? Or can one look at the size and thickness of the part to base how you will handle it? Kind regards, -Steve Gregory- Senior Process Engineer LaBarge Incorporated Tulsa, Oklahoma (918) 459-2285 (918) 459-2350 FAX __________________________________________________________________ This message may contain information that is privileged and confidential to LaBarge, Inc. It is for use only by the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not copy, use or deliver this message to anyone. 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