Yeah, I know what you mean... Even though we have been hearing for years how important it is to "maintain a good relationship with our vendors", it isn't always that easy. At the joint venture I work at currently, a vendor is forbidden to contact me directly. He has to go through the sales rep to the purchaser to the program manager and maybe through the project engineer too, and usually the labyrinth of bureaucracy has garbled the original question so much, I can't even understand the problem without calling them directly. The only purpose of this "control structure" is so that any changes I have to make are broadcast to the entire universe so "everyone is on the same page" and no one feels left out. But you know what the end result is? They just don't call anymore, they build it however they think is best without asking questions. insane. Your question just triggered my need to vent, sorry. best wishes in your dealings with your customers, Jack (the "all alone in a little cubicle" guy) [log in to unmask] 05/18/2005 11:12 AM To To TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]> "Jack C. Olson" <[log in to unmask]> cc [log in to unmask] [log in to unmask] Subject Re: [TN] SMOBC question... Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 06/17/2005 Retention Category: G90 - General Matters/Administration Jack, I wish there were designers like you at the customers we deal with...and sometimes (to make the communication problem even worse), a design is not our customers design, but something they have outsourced. But even if you do get to communicate with the actual designer, and then find out that a note on the drawing is pretty meaningless, and makes the fab that much harder to build, many times I have heard; "Well, if we remove the note from the drawing, that'll mean we'll have to roll the revision on the drawing, and that's just too much trouble..." Kind regards, -Steve Gregory- Senior Process Engineer LaBarge Incorporated Tulsa, Oklahoma (918) 459-2285 (918) 459-2350 FAX |---------+----------------------------> | | "Jack C. Olson" | | | <OLSON_JACK_C@CAT| | | .COM> | | | Sent by: TechNet | | | <[log in to unmask]>| | | | | | | | | 05/18/2005 10:34 | | | AM | | | Please respond to| | | TechNet E-Mail | | | Forum; Please | | | respond to "Jack | | | C. Olson" | | | | |---------+----------------------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: [log in to unmask] | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [TN] SMOBC question... | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| Why are vendors so reluctant to ask the customer what is the intention behind their vague notes? As a board designer, I wish vendors would just ask me what I meant, instead of trying to get a consensus on a forum. Jack (the "lone voice crying in the wilderness" guy) ----- Message from Stephen Gregory <[log in to unmask]> on Tue, 17 May 2005 08:03:12 -0500 ----- Subject: Re: SMOBC question... Hi Jeffery, The board that I'm talking about doesn't seem to be that old design-wise. So do you think that maybe the note is just something kind of got "boiler-plated" from earlier designs? A description of the board is that it is a VME styled board, and everything on the board is SMT including headers, right angle push button switches, etc., the only through-hole is two press-fit right angle connectors. So the board is never going to see wave solder. The board is 15-layers and only .065" thick. Do you think that maybe the reason they have the note prohibiting HASL is because they don't want to thermally shock the board which may cause other problems? Kind regards, -Steve Gregory- Senior Process Engineer LaBarge Incorporated Tulsa, Oklahoma (918) 459-2285 (918) 459-2350 FAXJack C. Olson 10G Circuit Board Designer (630) 754-2431 --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________________________ This message may contain information that is privileged and confidential to LaBarge, Inc. 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