I am in California this week so while it is late it is actually 2 hours earlier than the time stamp on my email. Would standard epoxy mold compound work? These materials are very fluid at the mold temp (typ about 175C). The materials typically require about 5 hours of post-mold cure. It is not uncommon to transfer mold onto multilayer LTCC SIP assemblies for RF modules. The transfer mold process applies about 1000 - 1400 psi (sorry not in Pa)to the fluid mold compound for about 10 seconds. It will inject into and through tiny gaps so perhaps it would work for you. Would a liquid encapsulant (glob top) be suitable? Now, time for bed since it is now 1:22 AM here in California. Best regards, Leo Director of Applications Engineering ASAT, Inc. 3755 Capital of Texas Highway, Suite 100 Austin, Texas 78704 ph 512-383-4593 fx 512-383-1590 [log in to unmask] www.asat.com The information contained in this electronic message is CUSTOMER/SUPPLIER PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution and copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by electronic mail. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Ingemar Hernefjord (KC/EMW) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 2:56 AM To: 'Leo Higgins'; 'TechNet E-Mail Forum' Subject: RE: [TN] Plating on LCP/PPA Moulded devices Hi Leo, what instructive a lesson! You will never succeed as politician, because you'll explain in ten minutes what the party speakers elongate into hours. Anyway, the high temperature was an obstacle in my plan. The part to be LCP'd is a ceramic plate with a soldered metal part on, and the solder doesn't withstand more than 200C. Hmm...I'll have to think a little. Thanks again, I nominate hereby your mail as the best one for weeks. Regards Ingemar PS. You seem to be working very early in the morning! He-he.. -----Original Message----- From: Leo Higgins [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: den 2 februari 2005 09:23 To: Ingemar Hernefjord (KC/EMW); 'TechNet E-Mail Forum'; Leo Higgins Subject: RE: [TN] Plating on LCP/PPA Moulded devices Hello Ingemar, I do not know the actual viscosity of typical LCP materials. Typical LCP systems have a very small temperature range where the materials exhibit the softening behavior from a rigid material to a high viscosity taffy-like material (thermoplastic range) that will be injection moldable under high pressure. Above this short temperature range (perhaps only 5-10 degrees Celsius), the LCP shows a very rapid drop in viscosity, much like the melting of a crystalline material like a metal. The temperature at which this occurs is commonly above 300C, and may be above 400C for some special materials. In this liquid, highly fluid, low viscosity state the LCP molecules remain highly aligned and the viscosity is very low, almost like water. The LCPs commonly exhibit shear-thinning, so with high pressure and flow through narrow gaps, the local viscosity of material in the narrow gap regions will drop even further. This molecular alignment with flow direction results in typical LCP systems being highly anisotropic. The CTE in the flow direction is much lower than the CTE transverse to the flow direction because there is very little molecular bonding transverse to the flow direction. So the modulus is also lower when measured perpendicular to the flow direction. Due to the highly ordered LCP structure and presence of almost no secondary amorphous phase, the LCP shows very low free volume reduction or shrinkage when cooled. So the dimensions of the molded unit are much more dependent upon the accuracy of the mold than with just about any other thermoplastic. The very low viscosity allows very fine features to be moldable with LCP, so if you have a 5 micrometer wide and deep scratch in the surface of the mold, you will see a 5 micrometer wide and high raised ridge on the surface of the molded unit when removed from the mold. Typical thermoplastics (e.g. nylon) have a degree of "crystallinity" at the use environment temperature, but are highly amorphous and viscous at the molding temperature, although some degree of molecular alignment with flow direction will occur. These materials typically requires use of fairly high mold pressure. Since the LCP requires such high temperature injection molding, the molds are generally heated with hot oil, not the hot water possible with lower temp thermoplastic molding. Since the molds are typically held at a much lower temperature than the temperature in the mold screw injection region (typically 300 to 400C), the LCP is rapidly injected into the mold because the temperature range from very fluid (say at 360C) to solid may only be 5 or 10C as mentioned above. this rapid solidification allow short cycle times between mold shoots. Due to the anisotropy of the LCP during molding and at room temp, the mold must be carefully designed relative to location of injection point and mold cavity venting. LCPs are very interesting materials, and they show the lowest permeability of virtually any commercial polymers, offering the opportunity to form quasi-hermetic structures, assuming the premolded package is well sealed. This may be more info than you wanted, but it came out stream of consciousness.... Best regards, Leo Director of Applications Engineering ASAT, Inc. 3755 Capital of Texas Highway, Suite 100 Austin, Texas 78704 ph 512-383-4593 fx 512-383-1590 [log in to unmask] www.asat.com The information contained in this electronic message is CUSTOMER/SUPPLIER PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution and copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by electronic mail. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Ingemar Hernefjord (KC/EMW) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 1:28 AM To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum'; 'Leo Higgins' Subject: RE: [TN] Plating on LCP/PPA Moulded devices What is lowest viscosity of LCP? Need low Mps, say 5-50 Mps, for getting into small cracks. /Ingemar -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: den 1 februari 2005 20:23 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Plating on LCP/PPA Moulded devices While I was with Siemens, the group developing an injection molded LCP package (Polymer Stud Grid Array) had perfected a process for direct plating on filled LCP (surface and 0.100mm microvias through 0.350mm thick LCP over 5 years ago. Surface metal adhesion was equal to or better than Cu adhesion to dielectric in HDI build-up substrates. Highly adherent surface conductors as fine as 0.050mm lines and spaces were processed non photolithographically using laser structuring of an immersion Sn layer which was used as an in-situ mask for ammoniacal Cu etching. The process die require proprietary processing to make the Cu adhere directly to the LCP. Plating was blister free. Best regards, Leo Director of Applications Engineering ASAT, Inc. 3755 Capital of Texas Highway, Suite 100 Austin, Texas 78704 ph 512-383-4593 fx 512-383-1590 [log in to unmask] www.asat.com The information contained in this electronic message is CUSTOMER/SUPPLIER PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution and copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by electronic mail. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Fritz [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 8:57 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Plating on LCP/PPA Moulded devices In a message dated 2/1/2005 9:35:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: Last year we tried to plate copper through holes on LCP. Blistered everywhere, top surface, in holes. LCP is interesting resin. To plate electroless copper with adhesion, it needs a special adhesion promotion treatment - a lot different from epoxy glass. I agree, if you just run it down a regular electroless copper line, you will get the worst hole wall pull away you have ever seen. Contact me off line for a copy of the cycle that MacDermid recommends for plating the shielding on LCP connector bodies. The same cycle works on LCP core laminate, and I think would work on molded interconnect devices. Denny Fritz MacDermid --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------