Hi JoeFj, Brian, David, Chuck, IPC LF Listservers, HEY A Good Discussion, with facts and links added, NEAT!!! I really should spend more time reading your notes then replying, since the quality is quite good, yet let me add only a few interesting thoughts, and then I will read your links and notes later. 1}Despots won't solve this, just like Fat-Capitalist Democracies (Republics) can't, just like full democracies can't. As humans it is hard to see beyond our yesterday, i.e. our past, and leadership in any system creates it's own tunnel vision. 2)I hope more are reading this mini-list than we think and will add in their own way. 3)The US EPA released a report just the other day, (I was surprised since Bush/Cheney particularly, and Blair exist with their lies and tend to squash opposition reports), which predicted the water in the Boston area will rise 2 feet. This may not be so bad since in Boston in another century of engineering they built buildings on wooden pile drivings that need to be water washed to prevent decay. HEY just a positive on all those places built on swamps a century ago. Yours in Engineering, Dave Y i Engr, MA/NY DDave