Bill, Thank you for being in this forum, your insights are absolutely remarkable. :-) I always worked with the "difficult" engineers also, they are the ones that will push the envelope of design and stretch your imagination. When I finished working with them, they always wanted to work only with me in the future... imagine that.. because I listened to them and did what they wanted... they were the customer. Once in a while, they would try to do something goofy that would result in poor design... but If I showed them examples and written documentation, they would accept it and appreciate the effort to improve their design. I'm just a dummy H.S. graduate, trained @ Bell Labs in PCB design by engineers that had PHD's. Best dam education in the world... (too bad some bean counters and Lawyers screwed up that fine institution). Karl From: "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]> Reply-To: "(Designers Council Forum)" <[log in to unmask]>, "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [DC] Engineer/designer Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 09:46:16 -0800 Ah... Yes... the dispensable issue... ;) I remember a cocky manager telling me about how indispensable I was as an employee... He said smugly to me "it's kind of like sticking your finger in a bucket of water and pulling it out to see what sort of a hole is left"... grrrr... That kind of talk can give a guy an inferiority complex... The thing is... you are more valuable than THEY would like you to think you are.... but don't get a big head about it... or they will resent you. The word "primadonna" comes to mind... I don't know how many times I had heard someone say "anyone can do your job... it's just connecting the dots!" The reality was I was able to pick this job up pretty easy because I had been working with boards since I was 14 years old... My dad taught me the basics of electronics design and I had an edge being somewhat artistic and creative, and I really enjoyed the design puzzle. When I took a design another 'drafter' had done and redesigned it to hold more parts and have shorter line lengths, and it worked better and was easier to manufacture... they were a little surprised. It's funny... I remember guys used to brag about how much tape they could lay down on the mylar in a day... some collected large grapefruit size balls of wasted tape to show how many boards they had done.... this was a status thing... the one with the biggest ball... well you know. I used to throw mine away... I was a little slower that they were... but the boards I did were more difficult, and had RF components that had to keep away from noisy oscillators and high level signals...I was always assigned to work with the engineers nobody wanted to work with... and I learned a lot from them. Anyway, don't let them talk you into a 'sheep like' mentality or into self doubt... You are a rare commodity and they need you, as long as you get the job done well and they can get producible cost effective product out of you, they will support you and send you to seminars to get more education and help you to develop your career because they appreciate what you can do for them. Even if they tell you... 'you can be replaced'... The secret to success is self confidence and a strong willingness to work. All the rest of it will follow. "Be the Pan... Peter. You can fly..." Bill Brooks - KG6VVP PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I. Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 e-mail:[log in to unmask] http://www.dtwc.com http://pcbwizards.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DesignerCouncil Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF DesignerCouncil. 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To temporarily stop/(restart) delivery of DesignerCouncil send: SET DesignerCouncil NOMAIL/(MAIL) Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------