Also there is an interesting Connector at Amphenol's website that claims good performance up to 40GHz... I just have not seen any 60GHz connectors yet... If you know of a mfr that makes them I would be interested in seeing what they look like. http://drawings.amphenolrf.com/Preliminary/SMP-MSSB-PCT-1.pdf Bill Brooks - KG6VVP PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I. Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 e-mail:[log in to unmask] http://www.dtwc.com http://pcbwizards.com -----Original Message----- From: Brooks,Bill [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 3:41 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Wanted: TN's best-on-coax-soldering There is a nice write up on transitions at http://www.ansoft.com/hfworkshop03/Joseph_Tallo_Kyocera.pdf Notice the way they chose to make the transition through the board instead of parallel to the board... interesting. I have see this done many times before but never looked at an ANSOFT analysis of one. Cheers, Bill Brooks - KG6VVP PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I. Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 e-mail:[log in to unmask] http://www.dtwc.com http://pcbwizards.com -----Original Message----- From: Dehoyos, Ramon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 10:49 AM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Brooks,Bill Subject: RE: [TN] Wanted: TN's best-on-coax-soldering Bill: Your idea of having a network at the board for impedance matching in conjunction with a coax tail with a bend would work as long as the bend is the same or very similar bend for all the connections. The network must be tune able. Perhaps using a semi rigid coax material that has a specific bend. The bend could be done using a template. Regards, Ramon -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Brooks,Bill Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 12:46 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Wanted: TN's best-on-coax-soldering Ingemar, I have not worked at 60GHz yet... The highest frequency I have worked at is 15Ghz. At 60GHz you are really in need of a waveguide-like connection I would think... just intuition... What we were able to do at 3 to 6 GHz falls apart as you get past 15GHz. What type of connector are they using? SSMA? What substrate materials are being used? Perhaps a short length of coaxial 'tail' on the back end of the connector with a bend in it to allow for expansion and contraction and then some sort of impedance matching network at the board launch site would work... I would love to see the packaging of this design... It would be very enlightening to get a sense of scale too... I would expect 60GHz circuits to be on some sort of a MMIC or chip... not at the board level... I would think Duroid materials might still be too lossy at those frequencies. Sounds like a terrific design challenge... what an opportunity to get into cutting edge design... I envy you. :) Best regards, Bill Brooks - KG6VVP PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I. Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 e-mail:[log in to unmask] http://www.dtwc.com http://pcbwizards.com -----Original Message----- From: Ingemar Hernefjord (KC/EMW) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 12:04 AM To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum'; 'Brooks,Bill' Subject: RE: [TN] Wanted: TN's best-on-coax-soldering Bill, right about silver ribbon (I'd prefer gold). Theoretically best solution. I proposed parallel gap welded ribbon with mini S-curve to take movements, but does not work at 60 GHz range. Feel like don Q when fighting with the microwave experts, my design-for-reliability proposals are overrun by we-must-not-distort-the-signal guys...but after the environmental tests I use to get visits from same guys, now ready to discuss reality...ho-ho Thanks for your engagement Ingemar -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Brooks,Bill Sent: den 17 december 2004 21:50 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Wanted: TN's best-on-coax-soldering Hi Steve, Very interesting photo, do you have more from different perspectives? The soldermask 'dam' is a great example of a technique I used at another company. The 'coined' or flattened lead from the SMA looks to be pulled away from the solder joint... I would guess this happened after a thermal excursion, where the chassis expanded faster than the board and the lead literally pulled the SMA pin loose from the solder connection. I can't tell a lot from the photo because of the frosted Plexiglas appearance surrounding the top of the photo, but I have see this sort of failure before in similar situations... The solution to the problem is to strain relief the connection. We used a silver ribbon and soldered it to the pin and the board allowing it to flex to take up the CTE mismatch between the aluminum housing and the Duroid board. Hope that helps... let me know if I read the problem correctly... it was just a guess based on what it looks like to me from here... not being able to see the whole picture... Best regards, Bill Brooks - KG6VVP PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I. Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 e-mail:[log in to unmask] http://www.dtwc.com http://pcbwizards.com -----Original Message----- From: Steve Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 12:35 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Wanted: TN's best-on-coax-soldering Sorry Everyone! My bad, I didn't have the thumbnail linked to the picture...but it is now. Try this link: http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com/files/SMA.jpg Just got in a hurry when I posted the picture. I'm trying to get all my loose ends tied-up here at work because I'm leaving this weekend for Christmas vacation. -Steve Gregory- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------