As a practical substitute for fossil fuels, it is much less heat producing per volume than fossil fuels... therefore it takes much more of it to produce the same amount of energy that you would get out of fossil fuels... but it can be produced and replenished efficiently without pollution... all the by-products of combustion are natural occurring and present elements. Not so for fossil fuels. And it would reduce the demand and dependence on oil for our energy needs... thus making oil a reduced player of importance in the world's economy. I wonder though, if I was to use Hydrogen gas as my heating source at home would it make the house humid? At least if you ran the hydrogen powered car in the garage with the doors closed, the only result would be steamed up windows... :) I think BMW made a prototype car many years ago when there was much published on the idea... The Fuel Cell should make electric driven vehicles much more practical and efficient than the hydrogen combustion engine. The article at that website says you can make water through the use of the fuel cell as well. So it's not a far fetched idea. It must be very pure water I would think... http://www.nmsea.org/Curriculum/7_12/Fuel_Cells/fuel_cells.htm So making your own fuel to run the system could be done with electrolysis and you would need batteries to store electricity and a power supply to run the gas production, a storage container for the gas and a pump to move the gas into the container, a fuel cell to convert the gas into water and heat and electricity... hmmm sounds a bit like a perpetual motion closed loop to me... except for the fact that it's driven by solar cells daily... You might be able to make a self sufficient homestead out in the boonies with something like that... :) Cleaner that making fuel from digesters that produce methane or some other such process... I remember reading somewhere that one of the Hollywood elites is driving a car that runs on chicken manure... I would much prefer not to have to deal with that... http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/methane_bate.html Happy Friday... Bill Brooks - KG6VVP PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I. Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 e-mail:[log in to unmask] http://www.dtwc.com http://pcbwizards.com -----Original Message----- From: Ahne Oosterhof [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 9:08 AM To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum'; 'Brooks,Bill' Subject: RE: [TN] DI Water and how many miles can the car go per mile of wind ??? ;) ??? Have a happy Friday. Ahne PS: How come nobody talks about efficiency when tauting (or is it spouting?) the advantages of hydrogen usage? -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brooks,Bill Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 8:40 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] DI Water Hydrogen can be made by separating it from water leaving the 2 components, 2 molecules of Hydrogen and one molecule of oxygen. This process is called electrolysis... http://www.nmsea.org/Curriculum/7_12/electrolysis/electrolysis.htm It can be done without pollution at all... using solar or wind power. Best regards, Bill Brooks - KG6VVP PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I. Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 e-mail:[log in to unmask] http://www.dtwc.com http://pcbwizards.com -----Original Message----- From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:13 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] DI Water And, please, tell me how you are going to produce hydrogen in sufficient purity and quantity to run a relatively low-efficiency device like a fuel cell? AND ensure that there is no pollution in the process? The much-vaunted fuel cell for, e.g., large-scale car use can never be. It is being developed purely as a magnet for governmental funding. If you wish to discuss this in more detail, I propose we shift the debate to the EnviroNet. I never proposed mixing the H2 and O2 to produce BANG. There are a number of ways of non-explosively combining the two gases safely, the simplest being a straightforward hydrogen flame. Brian Indrek Rebane wrote: > Hi Brian, > > Brian Ellis wrote: > >> No way. Producing PURE H2 and PURE O2 to produce PURE water would be >> horrendously expensive, energy consuming and polluting. > > > Not so, pure water would be a by-product of discharging the fuel-cell. > (Ability to store solar energy for winter time anyone?) > > But by just mixing hydrogen and oxygen near fire: > 2H2+O2 => 2H2O + BANG! > > Indrek > > -- > Indrek Rebane | Borthwick-Pignon > Electronics Engineer | Tartu Science Park > Phone: (+372) 7 302 641 | Riia 185, 51014 Tartu > Fax: (+372) 7 383 041 | Estonia > [log in to unmask] | www.bps.co.ee > > --------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To > unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt > or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing > per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: > http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site > http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-615-7100 > ext.2815 > ----------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815 -----------------------------------------------------