Well said....much what I have started to learn.... I believe, in general, mankinds' greatest weakness is...... COMPLACENCY You see it in many sectors, but applying it to us PCB Designers, you said it right... When one starts feeling complacent, then it's time to worry !!!! Just because we done well, it is good to always keep an open mind & always look for something that will make a PCB better, delivered faster & cheaper.... This is a never ending learning profession. What works for 1 PCB will not be optimum for another......you may get by, but by no means is it optimum. Regards TDK -----Original Message----- From: Jack C. Olson [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 9:23 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [DC] (NTC) design philosophy Hey, Moonman I'm glad you wrote back... sorry for the delayed response, I took a long weekend off. (And you are most certainly right, I DO feel damn lucky to have a job these days, especially at a fairly stable company like Caterpillar. No guarantees though, right?) Anyway I would like to share something with you. I've been trying to learn how to be a good designer for many years, even though for a long time I was staying pretty isolated from the manufacturing side of things. My major goal was to get the artwork through the CAM department of whatever bare-board vendor we were using, and if that data went out, and I didn't hear anything back, it was a success! (Not that I didn't encourage them letting me know if anything needed improvement), but when I started working for Intel I suddenly had some kind of realization that my work affects MANY people down the line for years and years. Maybe it was all the classes and articles and mistakes finally built up enough to make a dent in this bonehead, who knows? When I left Intel it was to go up to Northern California to work for a small "family-owned" company, I just couldn't wait to "turn them on" to "a better way of doing things"! You can probably guess what happened, right? No one was really ASKING for a better way of doing things. And then I tried to push them into some changes that I was certain would make the products more reliable, and yeah, I was an ass about it, and they resented me for it. So I didn't make any friends, but I couldn't believe people would choose tradition over science and I was really frustrated. Then I went to an IPC class to get the training for CID certification, and suddenly I saw the whole big picture of my role in the scheme of things as far as being a circuit board designer goes. I probably sound a little wacko by saying this (and yes I have other interests besides board design in my life) but by hearing the whole IPC structure outlined in a cram course at just the right time in my life when I was ready to put all the details into perspective, it was like a revelation. (Was I hyno-tized by the IPC...? hahaha! ahem.) Now I've moved again, to another large company, and you would think that a company that has been around for a long time would have very well-established procedures and processes, right? They would have gradually learned from all the mistakes and "have it down", right? Well, not to say anything bad about Caterpillar, because I have never been at ANY company that's had a perfect process. People come and go, graduate in and retire out, vendors change, and on and on. But I didn't make the same mistake this time. This time I realized people aren't that anxious to hear from "the new guy", and some people just don't enjoy sitting around talking about design philosophy. So I pick my battles. I just pick the one that I think will have the most affect. I'm still kind of a squeeky wheel around here, and I'm sure some of my co-workers think I am "over the top" or just a plain jerk, but its okay, I think the product and the company is better for it in the long run, and I see that as part of my job. So why am I posting this personal history in public? Because I think this next statement deserves to be said at least once and then I'll probably never mention it again. I seldom come into contact with people who think in a similar way. Most user groups that I know of are pretty much dead (and since we're always here on the internet, why bother with two hours every month or quarter-year when we have 24/7 right here?). I meet others at the design conferences, and sometimes I can tell the authors of certain articles have a similar philosophy, but right here and on the PCDList and TechNet and Mentor email forums are where I find others like me (at least a little bit like me) So I hate to lose contact with anyone because we got off on the wrong foot. There's so few of us we should work together. Okay, I've rambled on enough, I just wanted to say you are not alone out there Earl, and if there are other lurkers out there who never speak up, but have a passion for trying to do things right (or at least best), you are not alone either. For the record I didn't do this on "company time", this is just a personal note from your friend, Jack "moonman" <[log in to unmask] > To 09/02/2004 10:27 To AM "Jack C. Olson" <[log in to unmask]> "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]> cc Subject MoonMan Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 10/02/2004 Retention Category: G90 - General Matters/Administration I would work with you two and so many others if I thought you would pitch in OBJECTIVELY and VERY SERIOUSLY to make designs more manufacturable. I have joined with many others in this endeavor over MANY years from the design world as well as manufacturing, quality, test, process and product development. I'm damn serious about this effort. If you are as well, I would like to join your efforts to IMPROVE. MoonMan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- DesignerCouncil Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF DesignerCouncil. To temporarily stop/(restart) delivery of DesignerCouncil send: SET DesignerCouncil NOMAIL/(MAIL) Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DesignerCouncil Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF DesignerCouncil. To temporarily stop/(restart) delivery of DesignerCouncil send: SET DesignerCouncil NOMAIL/(MAIL) Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------