That's a difficult one Lou, As regards Intellectual property, I have heard stories of US companies outsourcing their designs to China and getting delays and problems with their products.... and then they see their product show up on the market a few months later with a slightly different name being sold like hotcakes. They steal Intellectual property in foreign countries... So, I wouldn't recommend the wholesale exodus of our products to communist China or India for that matter. The way I see it, there are 2 options. Train others to take care of themselves, or pay their governments to take care of them. We have been doing the latter. Right now, the US is the largest foreign aid contributor in the world... but the world still lives in poverty. It's not working. The concept is: If we teach the world to feed itself, maybe we won't have to spend so much on Foreign Aid. It's the old saying, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him and his family for life..." I hate to see jobs disappear in the US as much as anyone does. I wonder, would we be better off if Detroit never outsourced its technology to other countries? Would we still be supporting Japan with aid instead of their being a manufacturing giant now? Would the Textile industry be better if we didn't build factories in depressed countries? These are tough questions to answer. The whole thing may be academic anyway, I don't think there is a whole lot you or I can do about it. But if you have any influence on the decision makers, I would caution them about running to the Chinese to make all of our products for us, just because it looks like it might be cheaper. They may find out that the money they spend now will vaporize in a few years... with little or no return. Bill Brooks PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I. Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 http://pcbwizards.com -----Original Message----- From: Louis Dallara [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 6:54 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [DC] [NTC] Education...a little off topic but valid.. Bill; So do we educated the world to design are electronics and give them our intellectual property so they can have all are engineering jobs along with the manufacture base just because they have a lower standard of living and will work cheaper???? Inquiring minds want to know?? Lou Dallara -----Original Message----- From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Roger Stoops Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:37 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [DC] [NTC] Education...a little off topic but valid.. Estonia is one of the Baltic countries, formerly of the USSR, bordered with Russia to the east and Latvia to the south, Finland to the north across Gulf of Finland. Current temp is 68deg F with partly cloudy skies as of 2:10 their time...hmmmm, nice golfing weather... http://www.abacci.com/atlas/geography.asp?countryID=191 -----Original Message----- From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Brooks,Bill Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 5:56 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [DC] Education...a little off topic but valid.. Do I detect a slight hint of sarcasm Indrek? :) (BTW, Where is Estonia?) "Hmmm, no educating those peasants now... wouldn't want to give them any IDEAS in their little 'mutton heads'..." says the noble to the castle guard... Sounds like England during the reign of King George... Didn't our American ancestors leave there because of the disparity of those who have verses those to have not... I think even feeding your family by hunting deer in the local forest was a crime... All things belonged to the King... especially access to knowledge. America's best defense is an educated populace, armed with knowledge and the means to protect its free dissemination to all citizens. Lord help the fool that invades this ARMED, and EDUCATED country... (That's why when they reduce access to education, they want to take all your weapons away... can you imagine an ARMED 'UNEDUCATED' nation? I'm sure it makes the elite very nervous...) Of course those that would have power over us would prefer to do it slyly without our knowledge... its less likely we would know who to retaliate against when they stole our freedoms... But that's really not a fundamentally PCB related subject... just one I feel passionate about as well. I believe that educational materials need to be made available to the people of this country at very reasonable cost and ease of access... it's a source of strength to our country and our friends. And you may notice that Designers Council members get discounts on educational materials and events through their membership... that's another good thing... 'Evil reigns when good men do nothing...' - Edmund Burke (1729-1797) Bill Brooks PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I. Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 http://pcbwizards.com -----Original Message----- From: Indrek Rebane [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 3:10 AM To: (Designers Council Forum); Brooks,Bill Subject: [OT]Re: [DC] Lead free Almost as bad idea as giving free (governmentally funded) education to people. Including higher education. What would they think? Poor people may get educated! People would not quit study towards their physics degrees just because they have no money, thou they are better then anyone else in the area. What a ridiculous idea! What will country do with it's people when they are not attached to 6 hours of soap operas on TV every day anymore? Whole punch of psychiatrists would also go bust. Can't let that happen to our economy. Indrek -- Indrek Rebane | Borthwick-Pignon Electronics Engineer | Tartu Science Park Phone: (+372) 7 302 641 | Riia 185, 51014 Tartu Fax: (+372) 7 383 041 | Estonia [log in to unmask] | www.bps.co.ee ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- DesignerCouncil Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF DesignerCouncil. To temporarily stop/(restart) delivery of DesignerCouncil send: SET DesignerCouncil NOMAIL/(MAIL) Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- DesignerCouncil Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF DesignerCouncil. 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