Cal, I've been working with offshore board vendors for nearly 20 years now, both in Asia and Europe. What everybody says is true, but it is also not the norm. It all depends on who you select to quote and how much homework you do. If you let Purchasing collect quotes from any where, you could end up with a lot of problems. Just like here in N. America, the quality shops may not be the lowest quoters, and the lowest may be low because they have poor quality, no engineering, NO CUSTOMERS, and no capability. There are many pcb companies in Asia that are far superior to the best in N. America. Just ask Intel or Apple or IBM who builds their toughest high volume boards, but there-in lies one of Asia's biggest weaknesses, they like high-volume! And high mix, low volume is not one of their strong suits. So be careful if Purchasing is taking high-volume prices and applying them to low-volume boards. The second advice is, don't go direct unless you like being on planes and phone call in the middle of the night. There are plenty of fine rep companies here in the US that handle the Asian suppliers, go thru them. Now you have someone local to run down engineering issues and check the boards for you. Many of the rep companies for Asian PC Suppliers have their own quality, purchasing and engineering staffs in Taiwan, Korea or China. They take care of your boards from both ends. They also will quotes the boards FOB your loading dock so that it includes all the shipping, customs, etc. It costs a little more but it is worth it. Make sure these costs are included in what everyones quoting, otherwise somebodies 'low-balling' you and you will pay for it in the end. Finally, most PCB Fabricators exaggerate, it seems to come with the territory. To truly know what their capabilities are, use the IPC-9151 PCQR2 Benchmark Panels (at www.pcbquality.com). These show the true capabilities of a fabricator, better yet, if an Asian vendor CAN'T send you a copy of their IPC-9151 PCQR2 report, don't let them quote. This will allow you to see their capability and compare it to domestic producers. If your domestic PCB vendor doesn't have a IPC-9151 report, get rid of him for one that does. Intel, HP & IBM (as a consortium) just recently completed a study of 20+ Asian suppliers and so I know that there are a lot of IPC-9151 reports out there to look at. Or give CAT a call (www.cat-test.info) about the database of all suppliers to the IPC-9151 and how to get a list of the contributors. Don't take it for granted that the Asians will be the lowest price, especially if you make this a fair comparison. Somebody has to watch Purchasing so that they don't "cook-the-books" and pat themselves on the back for finding "such bargains" when all they found was headaches and a faster route-to-ruin. Happy Holden Westwood Associates Cal Driscoll <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> 07/15/2004 01:06 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to Cal Driscoll To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: [TN] Cost of off shore (Bare board) Hi all- Purchasing has decided they would like to entertain off shore (Asia) quotes for bare boards and compare them with our domestic prices. It is obvious to me that the cheaper of the two is the direction they will proceed. Aside from raw cost of the board alone....what other variables need to be considered (i.e. import cost, tax, etc...). Any experiences or input you may have would be great. Thanks in advance, Cal --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 -----------------------------------------------------