Joe, So, in summary, you can have water soluble flux residues, RMA flux residues, and low solids flux residue? I agree with others that you have a potentially dangerous mix of fluxes. And you wish to go from an in-line cleaner, which has generally better cleaning, to a batch cleaner, which gives more variable cleaning? As to recommendations, try Austin America Technologies (AAT), which make a pretty good line of cleaners. I recommend Kyzen products for cleaning. Their Aquanox line is pretty good, especially the new stuff, and should be able to clean all the flux chemistries in your flux soup. I must say that the term "vulcanization of flux residues" is a new one to me. Vulcanization refers to a polymerization action that occurs in rubbers and some silicone based adhesives. Flux residues have neither. A more appropriate term would be unreacted flux. Low residue fluxes must reach a minimum temperature, called the activation temperature, before all the carrier solvent is driven off and the residues change chemically to a benign condition. That is why the flux manufacturers recommend putting as little low solids flux on as possible. Have you considered not cleaning your low residue flux? And now Dewey can start thinking of a suitable Trek tie in. Must be a hot one down in Phoenix today....... Doug Pauls "Macko, Joe @ IEC" <joe.macko To: [log in to unmask] Sent by: TechNet cc: <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [TN] circuit board batch cleaner recommendation 06/24/2004 11:33 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Macko, Joe @ IEC" Ramon, Thanks for the feedback. Our venders are using water soluble type fluxes which are cleaned at their facility using aqueous in-line cleaners and verified by random Omegameter and visual tests. We had not had any problems receiving uncleaned boards from our CMs. joe -----Original Message----- From: Dehoyos, Ramon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:27 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] circuit board batch cleaner recommendation Hi Joe: The questions is what type of flux is used by your vendor? You may be mixing three types of flux, which is not a good idea. Regards, Ramon -----Original Message----- From: David Douthit [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 11:58 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] circuit board batch cleaner recommendation Joe, The use of "No-Clean" for rework is problematic. Unvulcanized flux will go places where it can not be removed. The best method to deal with this is to run the boards back through an oven and make sure the entire board reaches a high enough temperature to vulcanize the remaining flux. If there is a combination of fluxes on the board you are in serious trouble. Do all the RMA rework and clean-up prior to "No-Clean" rework. Hope this helps. David A. Douthit Manager LoCan LLC Macko, Joe @ IEC wrote: >Fellow Technets, > >We are looking at switching to a "batch" type cleaner from our WESTEK >in-line cleaner for circuit boards. We outsource all of our board assembly >so we do not have to worry about cleaning screens, etc.. Our boards are >densely populated, double sided with multiple BGAs on both sides. We use >wire form, RMA cored solder for in-house rework and touch up. Use NC for >BGA rework. > >Looking for some recommendation / comments on what fellow techs are using to >successfully clean their boards - make, model, etc.... Their seem to be a >lot of units out there. Thanks > >joe > >--------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 >----------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 -----------------------------------------------------