Nuts we is here in the land of sun and fun (Florida for those of you that don't know) It's a 16 pin pak and we add 8 jumpers, most from one side to the other. If you'd like to see a picture of this work of art, I'd be glad to share. Bruce Stilmack GDLS-TO Manufacturing Engineer (850) 574-4773 [log in to unmask] "Kasprzak, Bill (sys) To: [log in to unmask] USX" cc: <bkasprzak@MOO Subject: Re: [TN] Dead Bugs G.COM> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask] RG> 06/19/2004 08:17 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Kasprzak, Bill (sys) USX" Bruce, I'm very familiar with the various reasons why your board was never upgraded. (In the military business, it's typically, ".... because we qualified the system with the 'dead bug'.") I'll still contend that a board redesign and a delta qual would still be cheaper than installing the 'dead bug' 800 times and counting. Tell me you're not attaching wires to the resistor pak. This is nuts. 'Dead Bugs' should only be intended for development, prototypes and small production orders (<50 pcs). Bill Kasprzak Moog Inc., Systems Group, Process Engineer -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 6:38 AM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.; Kasprzak, Bill (sys) USX Subject: Re: [TN] Dead Bugs We have been installing one dead bug SMT resistor pak on one of the main electronic control boxes for the M1A1 SEP tanks since the beginning of the production cycle. In this case a change was needed to make the board functional, yet no one was willing to spring for an entire board layout. This card and the box it goes into has passed all levels of military qual testing including ballistic shock, vibe and all environmental scenarios (these occur every 100 units). In addition, I have yet to see a card returned from the field (whether it be the US or Iraq) where this part has been called into question. We have built a total of about 800 of these cards and are continuing to outfit the M!A1 with this box (card). So the reliability factor, if installed correctly, is a none issue. That being said, myself and well as the assemblers hate the fact that we have to install the part in this fashion. So good reliability can easily be achieved, but a price is definitely paid in assembly time. Bruce Stilmack GDLS-TO Manufacturing Engineer (850) 574-4773 [log in to unmask] "Kasprzak, Bill (sys) To: [log in to unmask] USX" cc: <bkasprzak@MOO Subject: Re: [TN] Dead Bugs G.COM> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask] RG> 06/18/2004 11:05 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Kasprzak, Bill (sys) USX" Joe, A couple of obvious things. 1) If you have a customer that wants to disallow this for production, then he's willing to foot the bill for new board layouts. That's good. 2) If it's on the print, that takes precedence over any general rules or other edicts. Whether allowed or not, you're obligated to make the parts to print. If "dead bugs" are part of "Production", gosh, I hope the order is very small. "Dead Bugs" should be limited to development maybe even prototype work. Otherwise, new board layout is needed. You might want to know why they're suggesting this? I'd be curious. Good Luck. Bill Kasprzak Moog Inc., Systems Group, Process Engineer -----Original Message----- From: Kane, Joseph E [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 10:27 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Dead Bugs We've talked before about implementing design changes with "dead bug" components, where you turn the part upside down, bond it to the board surface, and solder wires to the pins. Of course, this takes more labor, but sometimes it's useful to implement a change for a short time while artwork is being updated. Now we have a customer talking about disallowing this practice for production. Anyone have a good reason why dead bugs should be outlawed? Are there any specs that prohibit this? Joe Kane BAE SYSTEMS Controls Johnson City, NY --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 -----------------------------------------------------