Everyone is saying inadequate glass etch but few fabricators these days are really using a glass etch. Drilling doesn't look good, but I'd say it's over-aggressive desmear. That's why so much glass fiber protrusion. Franklin, what was desmear condition? Alkaline permanganate? How long, what temp.? One-pass or two? Is it ordinary FR-4, high Tg, or more high performance material? The plating definitely looks thin, based on comparison with inner foil, whether it's 1 oz. or 1/2 oz. Tim Reeves Tyco Printed Circuit Group - Dallas Division -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Werner Engelmaier Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:08 AM Subject: Re: Hole wall quality Hi Franklin, Whether or not these PWBs will give trouble in service depends on the product appllication--o.k. for benign environments, likely to fail in servere environments. The certainly are not the prettiest x-sections I have seen--inadequate glass etch, some glass-fiber rip-out, l plating rather thin---all resulting in stress risers in thin plating that is thinner still localized. Regards, Werner Engelmaier Engelmaier Associates, L.C. Electronic Packaging, Interconnection and Reliability Consulting 7 Jasmine Run Ormond Beach, FL 32174 USA Phone: 386-437-8747, Fax: 386-437-8737 E-mail: [log in to unmask], Website: www.engelmaier.com --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 -----------------------------------------------------