We use Siemens equipment and it has the capability of recognizing "ink spot" covering the fids. We use cheap stickers to cover the fids on x'd out boards and the equipment automatically skips those circuits in the panel. Be careful of the sticker type though. The vision system can pick up the fids through some and will place components. -----Original Message----- From: Miswald, Ron [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:52 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Board panelization - bad boards Dale How about a block skip on a board. We are currently placing a 1 X 1.5MM piece of metal for one (it isn't actually being used). The theory is to cover the metal with permanent marker to stop the individual piece from being assembled. At one point a large area in legend was proposed for this purpose too. The metal skip has actually been on our boards for awhile now. Does anyone use anything like this? -----Original Message----- From: Dale Ritzen [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:56 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Board panelization - bad boards Mark, You determine this "where the rubber meets the road" - at your P&P equipment setup. There you will reach a point of diminishing returns if your "step and repeat" functions are hobbled by X-out boards at different locations within the panel. My general rule of thumb (not an industry standard by any means) is if I get more than 2 panels with X-outs in different locations (this quantity may depend somewhat on the cost/volume of boards to run), the boards go back to the supplier. I don't want to have to sort panels by X-out locations and group them unless the volume and/or cost dictates that we have to use them. That's a board shop issue - not mine. This also creates lengthy tear down / set up time for each board run (which we cannot afford - time is money!) if you try to use panels with differing X-out locations. Board houses can and do work with you, once your expectations are known/communicated. Of course they may bring this up during pricing negotiations, but they are trying to protect themselves a bit, too. There's a happy medium that you come to which allows you to receive the type of product you need, yet allows the board houses to make their nickel, too. Getting the expectations in front of the supplier up front, then enforcing them as each order is received, are the two keys to this problem. My two cents worth, Dale Ritzen, CQA Quality Manager Austin Manufacturing Services -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mark Larson Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:13 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Board panelization - bad boards Hi, When boards are delivered as a panel for assembly it is not necessary for all boards on the panel to be good, you don't want to scrap a panel because of a small number of bad boards on the panel. My guess is that if the panel contains 80% good boards you don't want to throw away the entire panel, yet if there is only 20% good, it may not be cost effective to send it through assembly (and you've probably lost faith in that fabricator's boards). So is there a point where the number of bad boards on the panel makes the entire panel scrap? How do you determine that? Mark Larson Sr. PCB Designer Analog Technologies Corporation 11441 Rupp Drive Burnsville, MN 55337 952-894-9228 voice 952-894-2966 fax [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 -----------------------------------------------------