That's very interesting... It makes sense though that the idea to put eyelets in boards was probably from someone who used them in other products. They put them in tarpaulins and clothing and in metal so why not in boards as well. I bet the high speed automation of eyelet installation in boards was pretty much a disappointment when plated through hole technology came along.. It sounds like great material for a 'history of the eyelet or plated through hole' article to me. It might be a fun research project for someone. I remember the name USECO, do you know what that acronym stood for? I'm just curious. Probably something like 'U.S. Eyelet Co.' We said it like a word, "you-see-co". By the way JaMi, that means you're older than I am, by a bit... I didn't graduate from High School until 1973, although I had been working with my father making PC boards all through high school. I think that would have put me in Junior High school when you were at Lear Siegler. (Still wet behind the ears) Thanks for the insight, as always. Bill Brooks PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I. Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:46 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [DC] Hole size for test points Some of the earliest commercial insertion equipment was made by US Shoe company, I think... Used to work at a place (big automotive electronics co.) where the line had beaucoup heads, each inserting one component. Pretty sure the makers of the assembly equip. also made lines for shoe factories... "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent by: DesignerCouncil cc: <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [DC] Hole size for test points 01/19/2004 01:23 PM Please respond to "(Designers Council Forum)"; Please respond to "Brooks,Bill" You used to put the eyelets into shoes for shoe strings? Bill Brooks PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I. -----Original Message----- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 12:10 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [DC] Hole size for test points Jean-Francois and Bill, Ok, I've tried to follow the thread, but the one thing that I missed was whether the hole size was for a plated thru hole or a non-plated thru hole. Somehow I think that that the Manufactures Spec may have been for a non-plated thru hole. It does make a difference. Don't forget that if it is a plated thru hole, that you can't rely on a connection made to it on an inner layer, since there can be seperation of the wall plating when the hole is put in compression. It used to be that you were not allowed to use plating on any hole that would be put in compression for just this reason. On a different note, Ah yes, eyelets. I can remember when we at Cimron Division of Lear Siegler went to the very first Nepcon Show in 1968 in Long Beach California with our brand new Eyelet Machine designed exclusively for Printed Circuit Boards (as opposed to shoes (USECO)), that could be used to install .060 Funnel Flange Eyelets at a rate of up to 100 a minute. JaMi Smith --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DesignerCouncil Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF DesignerCouncil. To set a vacation stop for delivery of DesignerCouncil send: SET DesignerCouncil NOMAIL Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------