Greg, for this kind of litigation it is good to go back to the contract. What does the contract say about NRE? Maybe your buyers signed that the NRE will be adjusted according to the real time spent by your EMS, rather than paying a fixed amount. Besides that, you say "2 hours of line time". This is highly different than NRE. Down time of a line is worth in hundreths of $$$ per hour, while NRE is engineering time, normally 50-60$/hour. I think it is totally unfair that you pay line down time. Just a couple of thoughts, Ioan > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Parke [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 3:23 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] RE : [TN] BGA lighting adjustment > > > Eric, > > This is not an ECO. This board is a new board just introduced to our CM. > We did pay a standard NRE charge to cover P&P programming, tooling, etc. > Once the part was on the machine and running or getting ready to run, the > CM started having trouble with the lighting of the camera. It took them 2 > hours to get it right and now they are asking us to pay for the 2 hours of > line time that was lost in order to set it up properly. My opinion is > that this should be covered by the initial NRE charges. If it was a > revision change or modification then I agree that the CM would charge some > amount to cover the changes. This is not the case here. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Laroche [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 12:20 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] RE : [TN] BGA lighting adjustment > > > > Happy Halloween to all!! > > > > It seems fair to charge a standard initial tooling price. But if I > understand the original statement, this is a new part added to an existing > board. Steve, after you have charged the tooling cost, how do you handle > changes to the board? Essentially, every part of the process has to be > changed or modified with the revision change. Isn't it fair in this case > for the CM to charge the customer for these modifications? > > > > Eric > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] De la part de Steve Gregory > Envoyé : 31 octobre, 2003 11:18 > À : [log in to unmask] > Objet : Re: [TN] BGA lighting adjustment > > > > Hi Greg! > > They're charging YOU time to create a vision database to place a part on a > board they're building for you? WOW! > > I gotta say, in the 17-yrs. that I've been in contract manufacturing, > that's the first time I've ever heard of that... > > We do have a flat NRE charge for initial P & P programming and tooling, > but that includes everything, i.e.; Stencils, vision programs for > placement, color coded production aids, screen printer programs, reflow > oven and wave solder recipes, rework recipes if we need them, ect., ect... > > But to have itemized charges for each and every individual facet of the > programming needed for manufacturing? Getting a little anal if you ask > me... > > -Steve Gregory- > > > > > > technetters, > > We recently introduced a 516 pin 1mm BGA on one of our latest boards. Our > EMS provider is trying to charge us 2 hours of line time (for a > significant > amount of money) for time spent adjusting the lighting on their GSM > cameras. > They claim that the non-uniform ball grid layout was causing recognition > errors at placement. It has been a while since I've worked directly with > P&P equipment, but 2 hours of time seems a ridiculous amount of time to > adjust the cameras. Any thoughts? > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Gregory Parke > Senior Manufacturing Engineer > Coriolis Networks > 330 Codman Hill Road > Boxborough, MA 01719 > Voice: 978-264-1904 x651 > Fax: 978-264-1909 > [log in to unmask] > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 > for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ----------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 > for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ----------------------------------------------------- > > > --------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 > for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ----------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 > for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ----------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 > for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 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