ISO is just a model, it is expressed as such within the document itself. ISO did not advertise it was the end-all to poor quality, registrars, internal auditor trainers, and qms consultants did that... You can divide people (auditors) into 3 groups... 1. Those who follow ISO requirements religously, audit to the black and white inerpretation of the standard, will accept nothing less than the strict adherance to their interpretation, or the interpretaion they were taught. 2. Those who believe ISO is a failure, b.s., not worth the paper, want to have nothing to do with it...etc etc.. 3. Those who understand, it is a model, a guideline, and should be used as a foundation for something bigger (which is determined solely by the company) Regarding board shop audits (isn't that where this thread originated...wow...what session), personally, I would rather have someone in group 2 or 3 audit my shop. I've been audited here by people that base the audit soley on the standard, and their checklist originated as a result of their familiarization with the standard...and these audits do not necessarily go well. Someone who can look beyond the 'black and white' will perform better as an auditor, for the supplier, and the customer... By the way, I've been involved in ISO 9000 since 1988, I currently work for an 9002:1994 certified company, have established/revised quality systems at 3 companies, was an ASQQ-CQA, and RAB auditor, have completed the 9001:2000 transition training, assisted (consulted) a partner company in becoming 9001:2000 certified, am currently working on second company's quality system, and have just been approached by a third...for assistance...My philosophy is simple...develop the system to meet the minimal requirements for that specific company...and as the company grows through utilizing that system, the system grows as well...in those areas strictly necessry for that specific company... Here at Network Circuits, as a result of th simple, flexible, yet compliant 9002 certified quality system in place for 4 years, customer returns have declined, yields have improved, on-time has improved...and on and on... Jeeesh, I ramble too much.... Franklin --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 -----------------------------------------------------