Phil SIR is most certainly not the be all and end all of flux compatibility. Whereas SIR may be used as a negative test (poor SIR = poor compatibility, good SIR does NOT necessarily mean good compatibility), other tests are also necessary. Brian Phil Kinner wrote: > Bev, > > IEC 61189-5 is a draft spec, currently at an advanced stage (final draft I > believe) which deals with process characterization using SIR, to ensure that > all the chemistries used in the assembly of a PCA are compatible and that > the assembly process is good from an SIR point of view. > > If you'd like a copy, I'm sure I could sort you out with something. > > Best Regards, > > Phil Kinner > Concoat Ltd > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bev Christian > Sent: 13 March 2003 13:26 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Mixing fluxes - documentation vacuum > > If the fluxing materials come from different suppliers you will never get > them to officially put in print that they are compatible with each other. I > know if I were them, I never would. Think of all the combinations they > would have to test! > > Now if you are lucky, on a good day you might get some of the bigger > companies to say their own wave flux and own solder paste are compatible. > > I know for a fact that some fluxes/solder pastes produced five years ago > were not compatible with certain solder masks. But things have got better > in terms of both the flux and solder mask chemistries, so this is much more > rare. > > Some companies also have internal tests where they mix their wave solder > flux, paste flux, cored wire flux and chip adhesive and test that dog's > breakfast using SIR and electromigration. Again they are obviously only > testing the most likely combinations, not every combination possible from > their AVL (approved vendor list). > > But I know of no standard that specifically deals with this issue. > > regards, > Bev Christian > Research in Motion > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cagle, James [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: March 12, 2003 1:52 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Mixing fluxes - documentation vacuum > > > In J-STD-001,it says the fluxes must be compatible. Have your CM show you > data from both Paste/Flux manufacture that their products are OK to be used > with each other. > > >> James Cagle >>Tyco Printed Circuit Group-Hayward Division >> >> email: [log in to unmask] >> > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Hillman [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 7:45 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Mixing fluxes - documentation vacuum > > > Hi John! Take a look in the IPC-HDBK-001, section 7.2.1 flux application, > last paragraph. There is a cautionary statement (similar to the JSTD-001 > statement Guy referenced) about the mixing of fluxes and the potential > hazard of added liquid flux as a soldering aid. > > Dave Hillman > Rockwell Collins > [log in to unmask] > > > > > "Vivari, John" > <[log in to unmask] To: [log in to unmask] > COM> cc: > Sent by: TechNet Subject: [TN] Mixing fluxes > - documentation vacuum > <[log in to unmask]> > > > 03/11/2003 08:10 > AM > Please respond to > "TechNet E-Mail > Forum."; Please > respond to > "Vivari, John" > > > > > > > Dear TechNetters, > > A customer of ours came to us with a request for a reference to an IPC > document or other industry standard that explicitly states the hazards of > mixing flux types on an assembly. He asked for this because his contract > manufacturer built a set of boards using a No-clean solder paste and > reworked some BGAs with a water soluble solder paste. The contract > manufacture states that he cannot find a standard "anywhere" that says the > flux types should not be mixed or that there will be any long term > reliability issues. I know this seems naive but that is their position. > > We have searched our library of specifications, books, and industry > periodicals and have come up empty except for vague statements about having > to clean between soldering operations for certain classes of product > without > explaining why and a reference in Ning-Cheng Lee's new book cautioning > against combining incompatible fluxes between reflow and wave soldering. > We > are well versed in the hazards of mixing our own fluxes (never mind others) > but have never been asked to provide "industry standard documentation" > before (as opposed to a letter of explanation). > > Can anyone point to a reference that we have missed? > > Hopefully yours, > > John Vivari > Technical Service Engineer > EFD Inc. > [log in to unmask] > www.efdsolder.com > Ph: 401-333-3800 > Fx: 401-333-4954 > > --------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > To unsubscribe, 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Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > ----------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > ----------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ----------------------------------------------------- > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 -----------------------------------------------------