Techies.... Here's some thoughts from a PCB fabricator.... First of all, great input from everyone. As usual Dwight nailed it. Eventually all vias will fail under the right conditions... My group acquired an IST tester earlier this from PWB Corp, (www.pwbcorp.com) and it was amazing how quickly we could pin point the trouble spots in our via process, i.e. laminate, oxide, drill, desmear, (etchback when required), electroless, copper plate, etc. The three most significant impacts to via reliability were drill (hole wall quality), laminate (#1), and copper thickness (#2). We could double the life cycles of our thermal cycles by changing the laminate or increasing the copper thickness. There is one subject, I did not see discussed... BGA rework.... Typically your BGA sites have the highest density of vias per square inch. Many of our clients allow up to 5 rework cycles. The vast majority of via failures on our products are typically under BGAs... The Z axis expansion of the laminate after several thermal excursions is remarkable. Jim -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Dwight Mattix Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:04 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Via Cracking Hole wall roughness is also a major determinant of number of cycles to failure. The rougher the hole -- the more stress risers for cracks to start propagating from. That's why I seen many holes with thinner copper but clean drilling outlast thicker copper holes with rougher drilling. All in all, it's not so much a question of whether a holewall will crack after thermal cycling. It's a question of when it'll crack or how cycles it'll take to start cracking when thermal cycled (wearout point on the classic reliability bathtub curve). Soon or later we all die and sooner or later hole copper will start cracking if it sees enough temp cycling. Dwight At 08:15 PM 12/5/2002 -0800, Roger Mouton wrote: Werner, Your comments are well taken. I think you know what I was getting at Throughout the mid 80's I saw time and again where thin deposits cracked and thicker ones held together. And thanks for the clarification on elongation testing. Best, Roger Mouton --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 -----------------------------------------------------