Hi, Mel, The problem is finding the folks here in Singapore who can do a convincing job, as very few companies have any experience with Class 3 board manufacture. I also want to avoid firing our very few boards around the country to get cleanliness measured in case they meet some unpleasant adventures along the way. I would prefer to have something here on site to check the boards straight after cleaning and before coating - something that would give us reasonable confidence that our boards are as clean as we would like them to be.. My main problem, though, is that I have to try and buy equipment for a production run without having any boards to use in the assessment. It's our first ever production run worthy of the name, and we have no older equipment we're trying to replace, no past experience to draw on, no-one but me with any experience in class 3 board manufacture to guide us, and my experience has not involved cleaning processes at such close quarters before. There is not the funding available, not the resources, to do a lot of researching, experimentation and testing - we're expected to go with our best assessment, and our best assessment had better be right and not cost a fortune. Why do you think the Omegameter tests would not be of any value? Cost? Lack of necessary resolution? Not enough boards to justify having a facility of our own? What's the problem with water soluble fluxes and the Omegameter? I think I need to improve what little chemistry knowledge remains to me from my school days! Thanks for the advice though, and Merry Christmas, one and all. Me, I'm doing food on The Day for about 40 people, so guess who will not be getting much of a well-fed rest in front of the Christmas TV movies?!. Peter "Mel Parrish" <[log in to unmask]> 20/12/2002 10:15 PM To: "'TechNet E-Mail Forum.'" <[log in to unmask]>, DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST Aero/ST Group@ST Domain cc: Subject: RE: [TN] Cleanliness measurement equipment Hi Peter, Can't imagine the Omega meter type of tests to be of any value. Especially when considering the use of Water Soluble fluxes. Why not send them out for test to someone that can justify the capital investment for serious cleanliness test resources. Mel Parrish Director, Training Materials Resources Soldering Technology International 102 Tribble Drive Madison, AL 35758 256 705 5530 256 705 5538 Fax [log in to unmask] www.solderingtech.com -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of [log in to unmask] Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 10:16 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Cleanliness measurement equipment Dear All, What would your recommendations be for equipment to measure board cleanliness under the following circumstances?: Number of boards = 10 pcs per month up to a total of 280 boards. Board size = typically VME - approx 9.5" x 6.5" Board type = FR4, Class 3, 10 or 12 layer ENIG or HASL finished. Assembled with 63/37 solder paste and water-soluble flux, reworked using Kester 63/37 cored solder with compatible w/s flux Other main residues would come from fingerprint oils and residues from stripping Humiseal off boards using Conformox or Forane. I am trying to set up a new capability here and am looking for the least expensive equipment that will reliably measure genuine cleanliness levels down to 0.02ug NaCl eq/cm^2. I can only justify equipment expenditure against this one small contract that involves a total of 280 boards, hence the need for cost-effective (aka low-cost) choices. So far, I see that the Omegameter still features heavily in discussions on this topic - is it still a good tool to use, or is it's technology too old now to be capable of measuring accurately the high levels of cleanliness demanded by today's high-reliability electronics? Other options, like the Zero-Ion, or Concoat's Contaminometers, good as they seem to be, are several magnitudes more expensive and harder to justify as a result unless there's a good reason why less expensive options are not suitable. I could also use your recommendations on SIR test equipment. Thanks for any help you can offer. Peter --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 -----------------------------------------------------