Hi Dave, Tubes are standard factory packaging for most dual packages such as SOICs, TSSOPs (which can have lead pitches of 0.4 or 0.5mm), SSOPs, and only a few quad packages such as PLCCs, which have the "J" leads and the new MLF (Called QFN or BCC from other sources), which are leadless. I have only seen fine pitch quad flat packs in T&R or JEDEC trays. TSOP (Type 1 and Type 2 packages are packaged from the factories in JEDEC Trays. There are now JEDEC type trays available for a few sizes of PLCC packages, but not all. There was talk a few years ago about trays being developed for SOIC packages, but the tray manufacturer that was considering it decided that there was not enough interest to make them worth the expense of designing and manufacturing. The reason that people buy these in tubes is the Huge difference in quantities between T&R an Tubes. For instance, a narrow body SO16 (Body width = 3.8mm) comes approximately 48 per tube, but standard T&R quantity is 2500 per reel! PLCC44 come in tubes of 27-28 per tube, but come in reels of 500. Anyway, I hope that this helps. Sincerely, Debbie Goodwin Account Representative 10867 Portal Dr Los Alamitos, CA 90720 Phone = (714) 252-0010 Fax = (714) 252-0026 PLEASE NOTE - Effective Immediately New e-mail address is: [log in to unmask] __________________________________________________ This message is intended for the use of the individual entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by calling 714.252.0010 or returning the original message to us. Thank You. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Chapman [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 9:28 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] splicing reels In my opinion the root cause is having to buy parts in tubes rather than T&R but as a CM volume doesn't always allow full reel purchases. We use a Panasonic CM88, CM301 and an Amistar 5720, 7100 lines. We are a low/mid volume high mix shop with volume per assembly of 50 to 600 boards at a time so with the volume jobs we can make a case for T&R but low volume Purchasing wants to buy strips and tubes. My viewpoint is we shouldn't be placing fine pitch (20 mil) IC's from tubes due to handling defects, cycle time loss, and changes need to be made to programs when models change from T&R to tubes and vice versa. Some assemblies have as many as 12 tubes out of 40 identities. Is this normal? Does everybody do this? Why? Why not. What's a good cost for outside taping? I can see sockets, large IC's in tubes but not small SOICs and fine pitch. How wrong am I. Dave Chapman Manufacturing Engineer Circuit Service Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Morse, Carrie [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 3:44 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] splicing reels Ah Yes... The Splicing Topic. I'm sure this is one on the top of everyone's "favorite topics" list. Your question is a bit confusing. If you want to transfer IC's from tube, you need to tape and reel them. You can either pay someone to do this, or, you can invest in equipment that does this for you and bring that capability in house. If you have someone else do it, you lose lead time as well as control of your parts. If you bring that capability in house, it's an investment in equipment, training, and resources (i.e.: humans). A splicing tool is used simply to add a leader or to join two sections of material already in tape and reel. Splicing can often make the situation worse, than better. For example, if not spliced properly, the reel may pull causing parts to go all over the place, or, the splice may get stuck in the feeder (depending on what type of splice and what type of pick and place feeder you are using.) You can also try to purchase the parts in tape and reel in the first place, or, purchase placement equipment that can handle tubes. Not knowing the size of your company, the equipment you are using, the products you are running, your volumes, etc, it is difficult to truly understand the root cause of the problem to eliminate it. I would recommend against splicing as it is a Band-Aid in the truest meaning of the word! -Carrie -----Original Message----- From: Dave Chapman [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 4:29 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] splicing reels Is there a splicing tool or machine for adding leaders to reels of IC's? We have many fine pitch IC's that come in tubes and we would like to run them in tape and reel but it costs $45.00 per item to have them taped. Dave Chapman, Manufacturing Engineer Circuit Service Inc. -----Original Message----- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 -----------------------------------------------------