Chris, People in my country are suffering of Islam suicide terror almost on daily base. Technet is not a place for political discussions, but I really have to emphasise, that the basic background of suicide bombers is their Islam origin. For Muslems those murders are "Saint" ( Shahid ) fighting the "Holy War" ( Jihad) against Jews ( not against Israelis ). They definitly are not fighting "warrior to warrior" but they are killing children, women , etc. How many US warriors were killed in WTC in NY , 11/09/2000 by those gentle Islam warriors ? Edward Edward Szpruch Eltek Ltd P.O.Box 159 ; 49101 Petah Tikva Israel Tel ++972 3 9395050 , Fax ++972 3 9309581 e-mail [log in to unmask] > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Almeras [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: ד נובמבר 13 2002 15:35 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] NTC...Iraq.... Really OT > > I hate to jump in on a political or religious topic, but I wanted to point > out that Islam teaches to carry out the war against other religions > warrior to warrior, not by killing women and children. Those books you > mentioned may provide very good insight into the underlying issues, but > authors can place their own spin on a topic just as much as the media can. > > Just my 2 cents > > Chris Almeras > > -----Original Message----- > From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 4:59 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] NTC...Iraq.... Really OT > > > Brian and Steve, > > With all due respect, this is hardly the place for this type of > discussion, > since it is way way off topic, but since you have brought up the subject, > one foundational error in both of your understandings needs to be pointed > out and corrected. > > The one thing that the secular world as a whole, and the secular press in > particular, simply refuses to comprehend and understand, is that the > fundamental problem in the Middle East in general, and Iraq in particular, > and indeed, in the world today, is a question of religion, and in > particular, the religion of Islam. > > You, and anyone else that tries, will never even begin to understand the > problems until you examine the true teachings of Islam, as found in the > Quran and the Hadith. > > For example, contrary to what you will find at the web sites that you > referenced, the real problem between Iran and Iraq can be traced to the > differences between the Islamic Sunni and Shite factions and also between > the Fundamentalest who want to take the whole world back into the 7th > century under Islamic Law (Sharia), and those who want to live in the > twentieth century (or make that the twenty first). Add to this, the fact > that Saddam has proclaimed himself to be the modern day Nebuchadnezzar who > is the saviour of the entire Middle Eastern Peoples, and you can begin to > understand the complexities of the problem. > > A couple of very simple and well proven facts of history are all that is > really needed to put Saddam into a proper perspective, the first being the > invasion and distruction of the Country of Kuwait, and the second being > the > massive whosale slaughter and genocide of the Kurds. Add to this his > proven > connections to Al-Quadia training camps inside Iraq, and the ties between > the Iraqui Secret Service and the Oklahoma City Bombing, and what more do > you need. > > George W. Bush was totally out to lunch when he declared Islam to be a > religion of Peace, and with Christian leaders around the world speaking > out > and setting the record straight, such as Franklin Grahm, the son of > evangelest Billy Grahm, and a host of others, people are beginning to see > the true face of Islam. > > Open your eyes, and look at the wholesale slaughter, yes genocide, of > Christians by Muslims today, yes today, in the Sudan, Indonesia, and the > Phillipenes. It is rarely reported by the secular US press, but go do a > search of a site like BBC World News and see what is really going on in > the > world around you. > > Islam, and all of its various factions, teach that anyone who is not a > Muslim, is a second class person (actually much worse than that), that has > absolutely no rights or standing whatsoever, and that Jihad and Terrorism > are the sole legitimate avenue to converting the entire world, yes, the > entire world, to Islam. That is after they kill all of the Jews and > Christians (which teaching, oddly enough, comes directly from the Quran). > > Radical? Yes! > > True? Also yes! > > Anyone who really wants to understand the problem should look a t a few > books that will give you some real insight into the problem, without the > "spin" that you get from the secular press on the 11:00 News or Time > Magazine or Frontline or things like the "Islam, Empire of Faith" series > on > PBS. > > Some of these books are fairly controversial, but then the truth usually > is. > > 1. Jihad and Terrorism, by Dr. Mark Gabriel (assumed name), who has a > Doctorate in Islamic History and was a Professor of Islamic History at > Al-Azar in Cario for over 15 years, which is the premiere university in > the > Muslim World. This is an expose on the Islamic Doctrine of Jihad as taught > in the Quran and the Hadith by a former Muslim. > > 2. Islamic Invasion, by Dr. Robert Morey, who has a Doctorate in Islamic > Studies. This book is hard hitting and fact based. A good place to begin > to > get a realistic grasp of the problem. Irrespective of what you may end up > thinking of the book, you will really begin to have a grasp of the problem > when you finish reading it. > > 3. Winning the War Against Radical Islam, also by Dr. Morey. This book was > circulated inside the Pentegon a few months back and is responsible for > the > Pentegon statements underlying Saudi Arabias recent complaints about a > month > and a half ago regarding the Pentegon wanting to attack religious shrines > in > their country. > > 4. American Jihad, by Steve Emerson (I hope I got that correct). > > Any of these will get you started on really understanding what is really > going on in Iraq and the rest of the Middle East, and the "War on > Terrorism". > > Brian, it will take a lot more than praying for peace, and if you read any > one of the first three books above, you will understand why. > > My apologies to anyone in the forum who may have been offended by my post, > but sometimes you just have to speak up and set the record straight. > > JaMi > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Ellis" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 12:25 AM > Subject: Re: [TN] NTC...Iraq. > > > > Steve > > > > I'm not getting into a political argument, but following your links to > > the CNN site to see what they really have. I see "Iraq is believed...", > > "It is cosidered that Iraq may...", "The site was destroyed by UNSCOM in > > 1996..." and other such vague phrases. > > > > As far as I'm aware, there is no proof that any WMDs exist has been > > presented to the public, only speculation. The Blair document was sheer > > waffle without an ounce of proof. If this were presented in a court of > > law as evidence, the judge would split his sides laughing. > > > > I sincerely hope that Saddam lets in the inspectors and they find egg on > > the face of the pro-war factions, rather than serious weapons, other > > than their prehistoric Scuds which are more likely to explode on their > > launch pads than on a target. > > > > As for the Iraqi parliamentary decision, I believe that nothing can be > > taken at its face value. It is probably simple political manoeuvering a) > > to cover their backsides and b) to jockey for position. I think I'm not > > alone in this: the stock markets didn't react, for example, and they > > have plenty of political analysts. > > > > The best thing you or I can do is to pray for peace. > > > > Brian > > > > Steve Gregory wrote: > > > Hi all ya'll... > > > > > > Looks like things are starting to come to a head with Iraq. Not trying > > > to be political at all, but I've searched and tried to understand what > > > all this is about. Found a link that traces back to why this is > happening... > > > > > > Granted, this is something from the 'Net, and it could be anything the > > > authors want it to be, but there are reputable sources for this > > > information... > > > > > > This link initially details out carrier battle groups that are > deployed > > > at this time, some serious stuff!!! > > > > > > > http://www.efreedomnews.com/News%20Archive/Iraq/SpecialReportWaronIraq/W26 > US > SConstellation.htm > > > > > > But when you get to the page, there will be a link titled at the top > of > > > the page; > > > > > > SPECIAL REPORT War on Iraq: Background > > > > > > The actual link is: > > > > > > > http://www.efreedomnews.com/News%20Archive/Iraq/SpecialReportWaronIraq/SR1 > .h > tm > > > > > > Which will take you to a series of articles about why we're where we > are > > > at... > > > > > > This is some serious stuff in my opinion, and I hope and pray that > we'll > > > all get through it... > > > > > > We need to think and live as one...maybe someday....soon. > > > > > > -Steve Gregory- > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List > > > provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, > > > send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY > (NOT > > > the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) > > > delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet > NOMAIL > > > or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail > > > to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of > previous > > > posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site > > > http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or > contact > > > Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > > Technet Mail List 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