Mel: Maybe I am misunderstanding you. Both the IPC-A-610C and J-STD-001C require toe and side joint length depending whether the product is Class 1, 2 or 3 as follows: IPC-A-610C 12.2.5.3 Minimum end joint wide - 50% of lead width Class 1 & 2 and 75% of lead width Class 3 12.2.5.4 Side joint length - equal to lesser of lead width or .5 mm - Class 1 and the lesser of lead width or 75% of lead length - Class 2 & 3 Therefore, Steve is in a dilemma concerning non-solderable lead sides and toe in light of the Standard. I have no recommendation I just wanted to clarify the criteria in the Standards. Gregg A. Owens Executive Director Manufacturing Technology Training Center, Inc. 10427 San Sevaine Way, Suite "I" Mira Loma, CA 91752 -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mel Parrish Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 7:54 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Side and Toe Fillets... Steve, As I recall the discussion, it was a style thing where the standard shouldn't tell you what is OK. The criteria in "C Revision" does not require a fillet on the side of the lead or the toe of the lead and you can see that in the Acceptable illustration of the companion acceptability document IPC-A-610, Figure 12-71. Justification for the allowance was in light of your situation where it was allowed not to have fillets and as such there was not significant justification for the leads that have solderable surfaces to have solder fillets if they have similar reliability principles. The standard does require a heel filet and a fillet under the lead with dimensions based upon the relative lead dimensions, etc... Mel Parrish Director, Training Materials Resources Soldering Technology International 102 Tribble Drive Madison, AL 35758 256 705 5530 256 705 5538 Fax [log in to unmask] www.solderingtech.com -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Steve Gregory Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 9:07 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Side and Toe Fillets... Hi All! I've got a situation here with a SMT socket. It's a SAMTEC CLT-105-02-L-D. The leads are made from stamped pre-plated stock, so the sides and toes of the leads have exposed copper, and of course doesn't wet during reflow. In J-STD-001B, it used to say under 9.2.6.1 Flat, Ribbon, "L" and Gull Wing Leads: "Leads not having wettable sides or ends by design (such as leads stamped or sheared from pre-plated stock) are not required to have side or end fillets. In J-STD-001C it has no mention of that under the same section, in J-STD-001C the section number has changed, it's 9.2.6.8. So if you have leads that are made from pre-plated stock and have the sides and toes not wet because of the exposed copper, is it now a defect? If it is, how in the heck are you going to get the sides and toes to wet? Thanks! -Steve Gregory- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ----------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 -----------------------------------------------------