AMEN ----- Original Message ----- From: Croslin, Robert <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 8:12 AM Subject: Re: [TN] First Article Buy-off Process for SMT & Wave Solder > People definitely can follow processes, but do they always understand them? > Or, were they written properly and does the end result agree with the > customer's documentation / specification? Is that documentation clear > enough to get the desired result? When I ran my own shop, we instituted > incentives based on hitting standards that were set with mutual involvement > from the group doing them and engineering. Each operator was to inspect the > work coming to them from the previous operation, so they had to know and > understand not only their part, but those prior to and following as well. > The benefit was very measurable because the incentive was spread across the > entire floor's output, not just a particular group. It also had the benefit > of improved attendance. Like Steve says, it made people accountable. > Flawed operations or absent operators directly translated into reduced > incentives in the paycheck - much faster feedback than the yearly review. > Employee turnover dropped in the first year alone from 153% to 17% and we > returned to profitability. > > Despite all that, we still required the quality manager to do first articles > on every operation and the finished product simply to check the > "understanding" part of the process. It was amazing to find that what > seemed to be a very clearly written operation to one person was completely > taken differently by the next. These were all people who had a financial > stake in the result and were doing exactly what they thought was right. All > the first article did was verify the effectiveness of the operation. Did > the right things happen and did they happen right? Wouldn't be without it. > > Bob Croslin > Nielsen Media Research > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steve Thomas [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 5:18 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] First Article Buy-off Process for SMT & Wave Solder > > This kind of behavior only continues if you (not you, necessarily, but the > management directly > responsible for the performance of the people performing the work) don't > hold people accountable > for doing the work the way it's documented. You write a procedure, train > the people on the procedure, > get their signature on the training record, and then hold them accountable > for performing the operation > per procedure. > > If they don't they get a talking to, or a ding on their review, or a paltry > increase when it comes time for > a raise if they're prone to poor performance. Termination is always an > option too. I worked for > a company that went from very few proceduralized operations to documenting > every move, and verifying every > move with a second operator. You'd be surprised how people get used to it as > standard ops. after doing it > for a while. This was in medical device mfg., too, so non-compliance was a > precursor to a line stop. > > People CAN follow procedures, and it CAN make for a very efficiently run > operation, but you have to demand > compliance. I've seen it work, and work very well. Maybe if the management > and tech. support staff > believes it can work, it will? I just know it's far from impossible. > Whether or not it costs you more than > it saves you in a Class 1 or 2 operation, I don't know. In Class 3 it's > mandatory, at least in med. products. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rgrant [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 1:02 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] First Article Buy-off Process for SMT & Wave Solder > > > Poh, > > I have read all the other replies, and in spite of them I agree with you. > Unless an operator has a reputation for fouling things up, his peers will > usually rubber stamp the buy-off with out actually thoroughly checking the > machine set up. As I'm sure you have seen, thoroughly checking and buying > off can often take up to a half hour or more. With pressure to get the line > running, people will either just spot check or just buy-off without checking > at all. There are lots of reasons why this doesn't work. However, like you > said, EVERY company I have been to uses this fallacy. We collectively seem > to believe that humans will follow a procedure like a machine, totally > ignoring human psychology. The question is, what is the alternative? I > have seen it where a production line will drop the buy-off procedure because > it wasn't working, only to put it back in place after a major misbuild. I > guess its like a car alarm, you get this sense of *security* that really > isn't real. > > Pick and place machine manufactures and AOI manufactures have been working > this problem for years. I think we are very close to a solution. > > Ryan Grant > > -----Original Message----- > From: Poh Kong Hui [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 9:54 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] First Article Buy-off Process for SMT & Wave Solder > > > Hi Technetters, > > I would to share some experience with you all. > > I have been working for 5 companies. I realize that every > company that I worked for, has a buy-off system; so called > the first article buy-off before releasing the either a SMT or > wave soldering line for mass production. > > I am rather curious why the people who are managing the > lines cannot perform their own self check, but rather > depends upon someone to check their work and to ensure > they loaded the right to the machine or to the boards. > > I would like to hear your opinion about this system as I find it > rather stupid and it is wasting time. > > Poh > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------