Folks, During some of my consulting efforts, I have had some interesting conference calls recently. I am finding now, as some time before but not really noticing, that some Asian PCB shops do not use 2113 or 2313 glass style materials. They do use a lot of 1506 types (about 6 mil thickness with a relatively low resin content approximating 7628) we do not use in the US. What makes this particularly interesting is my need to transfer MLB technology to Asian shops. As one example, for some hi-rel board types I designed using, of course, DFM/CE and my TABLE II in my book, I needed to get concurrent with the supplier selected by our Asian cuatomer. Our Asian customer needs a "local" shop to do their boards now that we have proven they work very well. Anyway, we had several conference calls with our customer's potential new supplier and found issues with the above mentioned materials, the initial quality and long term reliability issues as well as impedance requirements to be an interesting study in concurrent engineering. For hours we discussed some basic and advanced isses and are proceeding rather well though I never knew this gap existed between them and us. Part of what came out the telephone meetings is the following table I created many years ago and I use with all my clients to ensure the highest initial and long term reliability MLB's at a good price: TABLE II POD Laminate Material Core Chart For Dimensional Stability, MLB Laminate Integrity, And Impedance Control REQUIREMENT PREFERRED NOT PREFERRED PREG THICKNESS/" GLASS STYLE/% RESIN - SINGLE PLY 0.0017 106 (75%) 0.0025 1080 (65%) 0.0035 2113 (58%) 0.0045 2116 (55%) 0.0070 7628 (44%) DIELECTRIC THICKNESS/" GLASS STYLE - MULTI PLY 0.004 106, 2113 1080,1080 0.005 1080, 1080 0.006 1080, 2113 106,106,106 0.007 1080, 2116 7628 0.008 2113, 2113 1080, 2113, 1080 0.009 2116, 2116 1080,2116,1080 0.010 2116, 2116 1080,2116,1080 0.011 2113, 1080, 2113 106,7628,106 0.012 1080, 7628, 1080 2113,2113,2113 0.013 2113, 7628, 2113 7628,7628 0.014 2113, 7628, 2113 7628,7628 0.015 2113, 7628, 2113 0.016 2113, 7628, 2113 or use 2116,7628,2116 I've also incorporated some changes to the table as part of the continuous improvement process. These changes, for you having the MoonMan DFM/CE book should be made to your TABLE II. I'm interested in any comments regarding material types worldwide and what others are using relative to TABLE II. Having been in this awhile, I realize everyone has their way of doing things and using whatever they want - within the limits of quality and reliability standards. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL) To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------