---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:01:02 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Randy Bock Sr." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Randy Bock Sr." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Wanted: AM79C970AVIW
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Did some checking, unable to help from my end.
Randy Bock Sr.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:20 AM
Subject: [TN] Wanted: AM79C970AVIW
> I'm getting kinda desperate here, trying to find someone - anyone - who
can
> come up with 100 pcs of AMD's old Ethernet Controller part AM79C970AVIW.
By
> any chance, does any of you know of a quiet corner where some of these
> parts may still survive unclaimed and unwanted, so I can adopt them (for a
> consideration, of course)?
>
> I've spent all morning and my lunch break hunting through web sites using
> every search word I can think of, only to draw a complete blank. Even if
> there aren't 100 pcs in one place, I'll take them piece-meal.
>
> MTIA
>
> Peter
>
> [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not
the
> intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should
> not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other
> person. Thank you.]
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:09:26 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Cyker, Howard A (Howie)" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Cyker, Howard A (Howie)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Secondary reflow over wave...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Steve,
We have also seen this before. The cause was secondary reflow in most
cases, and required "tweaking" of the wave profile. If that's not
successful, then you may require a selective wave fixture, however that may
not be possible due to your board layout.
You said that ". . . every pad has a via, they alternate . . ." Are you
saying you have VIP (via in pad)? If yes, what size are the vias, and are
you also seeing solder being scavenged through the vias?
Howard A. Cyker
Lucent Technologies
New Product Engineering
Email [log in to unmask]
Phone 978-960-2964
-----Original Message-----
From: Jorge Santana [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:35 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Secondary reflow over wave...
Steve
We have seen this on a SOIC that has coplanarity issue on the leads and
the problem was caught at wave solder when the part reflowed at top side of
the board leaving one open junction at the lead.
I have seen this also at BGA and we used Kapton tape to mask.
Thanks
Jorge Santana
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 8:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Secondary reflow over wave...
Hi All!
Got a situation here that I think is secondary reflow...
Have a board here that has some J-leaded DRAM that in functional test, they
can get the board to pass test by putting some pressure on top of some of
the
40-pin J-leaded DRAM's that are causing them to fail...
Out of SMT things look fine, but I have observed some boards that have
failed, show an unusual solder joint appearance after wave. The board is
"swiss-cheesed" with vias, and none of them are tented. Every pad has a via,
they alternate, some have .050" traces to the pad, some have .020" traces to
the pad.
Where we're seeing problems is where there is a bank of them (like a grid of
2 by 8 of them layed-out side by side).
I'm thinking secondary reflow because of the open vias...or could be CTE
mis-match between the part and the board. It's a .062" FR4 board, with
fairly
large 40-pin SOJ's, could be experiencing some hellacious mismatch, no? The
gull-wing parts we don't see the problem, even though the via placement is
the same standard as with the J-leaded parts...J-leads aren't as compliant?
Gonna hook-up the mole tomorrow, attaching it to one of the J-leaded parts
to
learn what it is seeing...will tell me a lot...
Just wondering if anybody else has run into this before...
-Steve Gregory-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:27:40 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: BGA Microscopes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello Technetters,
I'm familiar with the ERSA Scope.
Any experience on the ERSA or recommendations on other similar equipment.
I currently have X-ray capability, but would like to peek under the BGA and
see those balls.
Al
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:33:10 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Jason <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jason <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 20 Mhz crystal start-up woes
The feedback circuit could definitly be in question as there is no series
resistance in the design, would offset cap values add any benefit? Instead
of using tow 22 pF, one 22 pF and one 32 pF?
Brian, no cleaning is ever done here!! We use no-clean flux, and never over
apply it either!! (note - high sarcasm in voice - warranty investigation
will do that to a person)
Right now the ESR of the crystals are being questioned, the designer is
worried about having too high of an ESR value, although one of the
suppliers of the crystal analysed the circuit and said the drive level was
too high from the controller when the ESR of the crystal was 11.2, I wonder
if there could be a stack-up error with high ESR values and low drive level
from the controller, and also low ESR and high drive level from the
controller.
Thanks for all the comments,
Jason
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:10:30 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: TAIYOYUDEN CERAMIC CAPS
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="----=_NextPartTM-000-44b3fdd6-56cb-11d6-b135-00508be26895"
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
------=_NextPartTM-000-44b3fdd6-56cb-11d6-b135-00508be26895
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=_alternative 0058D75F85256BA4_="
--=_alternative 0058D75F85256BA4_=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Fellow TNers,
Wanted to see if any one else has experienced this.
We are using a 1uF X7R 1206 of this particular cap and using the
recommended reflow profile for the solder paste. The test is to ground
one end of the cap and measure the noise level from the other end
through a 330kohm impedance circuit. What we have seen is that after the
PCB is reflowed and tested, the noise level is at some specific
amplitude. We can then re-solder the cap by hand and the noise level
will drop an order of magnitude. The reflow soldering appears to be good
- nice fillet, wetting, structurally sound. We were speculating if
perhaps the termination ends of the cap were disconnecting internally
during the reflow (CTE problems) and that the hand soldering is somehow
connecting it back. I have noticed that the recommended reflow profile
of the cap specifies a much shorter liquidous time than what the paste
profile requires. This could also be the problem. I have not yet been
able to speak with the component manufacture to get their opinion.
Sorry for the lengthy message and thanks for your feedback,
Danny
--=_alternative 0058D75F85256BA4_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Fellow TNers,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Wanted to see if any one else has experienced this.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">We are using a 1uF X7R 1206 of this particular cap and using the recommended reflow profile for the solder paste. The test is to ground one end of the cap and measure the noise level from the other end through a 330kohm impedance circuit. What we have seen is that after the PCB is reflowed and tested, the noise level is at some specific amplitude. We can then re-solder the cap by hand and the noise level will drop an order of magnitude. The reflow soldering appears to be good - nice fillet, wetting, structurally sound. We were speculating if perhaps the termination ends of the cap were disconnecting internally during the reflow (CTE problems) and that the hand soldering is somehow connecting it back. I have noticed that the recommended reflow profile of the cap specifies a much shorter liquidous time than what the paste profile requires. This could also be the problem. I have not yet been able to speak with the component manufacture to get !
their opinion. </font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Sorry for the lengthy message and thanks for your feedback,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Danny</font>
--=_alternative 0058D75F85256BA4_=--
------=_NextPartTM-000-44b3fdd6-56cb-11d6-b135-00508be26895--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:09:01 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Shorts in PLCC Sockets
We have recently run across a situation which has baffled us. On the PCB
in question there are 4 Wave soldered PLCC sockets. 1 of these is being
reported as having solder shorts underneath. On the returned units we x-
rayed the sockets ( can't see under) and found shorts on 1 socket location
only. The shorts were consistanly on the same pin area for all the sockets
were the shorts were found. We removed a socket only to find the board
very clean underneath...no shorts..
The socket has a bottom retainer to hold all the pins in place.. This was
pried off and to our surprise there was the short.. inside the connector.
The amount of solder was enough to surround 3 pins in 2 seperate areas.
The hole around the pins in the plastic base is no more then 0.002".
Does any one have any idea how solder could have gotten up inside the
connector ( consistantly in the same location)? Or has any one seen this
before?
We have run this assembly several times in the past with no difficulty.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:25:57 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
phil bavaro <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: phil bavaro <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: IPC SMT FOOTPRINT DESIGN GUIDLINES VS SUPPLIERS - and for
custom components?
In-Reply-To: <003201c1e798$ce642780$0302a8c0@randy>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
We build mostly high end RF circuit boards and are faced with component
land patterns that the IPC standards do not address.
Our rule of thumb is the exact opposite of what I have seen most of you
concur on, and that is, we use the manufacturers data sheet first, until we
find that it does not work. Very rarely do we have to change the land
patterns. And then it is primarily only when the circuit is not performing
adequately.
We also sell our chip set and therefore do a lot of work to prepare a
documented and well proven package for the customers. There is a lot to be
said for following the instructions that a supplier gives you when it comes
to custom components such as BCCs and duplexors.
I just don't want everyone to assume that the suppliers data sheets are
always junk. But I do wish that the customers would provide feedback
especially if they find a land pattern that works even better.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:48:13 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Wenger, George M." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Wenger, George M." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Secondary reflow over wave...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve,
I haven't seen a photo showing your board and component layout but may =
guess is that you have "Double Reflow". I hate the name the "Double =
Reflow" name IBM Austin coined in their Nepcon 1994 presentation but it =
has sort of stuck. Check out the following two references:
Hallmark, Clay et.al., Nepcon West 1994 "Double Reflow: Degrading Fine =
Pitch Joints In The Wave Soldering Process
Wenger, George et. al., SMI 1995 "Double Reflow: The Stress Fracture =
Reliability Problem of the 90's"
Regards,
George
George M. Wenger (908)-546-4531 [log in to unmask]
Distinguished Member Technical Staff
Celiant Corporation, FMA Lab, 40 Technology Drive, NJ 07059
-----Original Message-----
From: Cyker, Howard A (Howie) [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:09 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Secondary reflow over wave...
Steve,
We have also seen this before. The cause was secondary reflow in most
cases, and required "tweaking" of the wave profile. If that's not
successful, then you may require a selective wave fixture, however that =
may
not be possible due to your board layout.
You said that ". . . every pad has a via, they alternate . . ." Are =
you
saying you have VIP (via in pad)? If yes, what size are the vias, and =
are
you also seeing solder being scavenged through the vias?
Howard A. Cyker
Lucent Technologies
New Product Engineering
Email [log in to unmask]
Phone 978-960-2964
-----Original Message-----
From: Jorge Santana [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:35 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Secondary reflow over wave...
Steve
We have seen this on a SOIC that has coplanarity issue on the leads =
and
the problem was caught at wave solder when the part reflowed at top side =
of
the board leaving one open junction at the lead.
I have seen this also at BGA and we used Kapton tape to mask.
Thanks
Jorge Santana
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 8:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Secondary reflow over wave...
Hi All!
Got a situation here that I think is secondary reflow...
Have a board here that has some J-leaded DRAM that in functional test, =
they
can get the board to pass test by putting some pressure on top of some =
of
the
40-pin J-leaded DRAM's that are causing them to fail...
Out of SMT things look fine, but I have observed some boards that have
failed, show an unusual solder joint appearance after wave. The board is
"swiss-cheesed" with vias, and none of them are tented. Every pad has a =
via,
they alternate, some have .050" traces to the pad, some have .020" =
traces to
the pad.
Where we're seeing problems is where there is a bank of them (like a =
grid of
2 by 8 of them layed-out side by side).
I'm thinking secondary reflow because of the open vias...or could be CTE
mis-match between the part and the board. It's a .062" FR4 board, with
fairly
large 40-pin SOJ's, could be experiencing some hellacious mismatch, no? =
The
gull-wing parts we don't see the problem, even though the via placement =
is
the same standard as with the J-leaded parts...J-leads aren't as =
compliant?
Gonna hook-up the mole tomorrow, attaching it to one of the J-leaded =
parts
to
learn what it is seeing...will tell me a lot...
Just wondering if anybody else has run into this before...
-Steve Gregory-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text =
in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: =
SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: =
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for =
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
-----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text =
in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: =
SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: =
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for =
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
-----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text =
in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: =
SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to =
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: =
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for =
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 =
ext.5315
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:24:39 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Shorts in PLCC Sockets
X-To: Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Andre,
If the flux gets in there so will the solder!
David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
Andre Leclair wrote:
> We have recently run across a situation which has baffled us. On the PCB
> in question there are 4 Wave soldered PLCC sockets. 1 of these is being
> reported as having solder shorts underneath. On the returned units we x-
> rayed the sockets ( can't see under) and found shorts on 1 socket location
> only. The shorts were consistanly on the same pin area for all the sockets
> were the shorts were found. We removed a socket only to find the board
> very clean underneath...no shorts..
> The socket has a bottom retainer to hold all the pins in place.. This was
> pried off and to our surprise there was the short.. inside the connector.
> The amount of solder was enough to surround 3 pins in 2 seperate areas.
> The hole around the pins in the plastic base is no more then 0.002".
>
> Does any one have any idea how solder could have gotten up inside the
> connector ( consistantly in the same location)? Or has any one seen this
> before?
>
> We have run this assembly several times in the past with no difficulty.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:19:34 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
JaMi Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: JaMi Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 20 Mhz crystal start-up woes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jason and the group,
Ditto on this and all of the other previous responses, I concur.
But ...
You have not explained exactly what type of crystal you are using (data
book calls for parallel cut crystal on page 49), nor have you explained
exactly how it is hooked up.
It also appears from a cursory perusal of that same page that the
oscillator "mode" needs to be pre-programmed by setting bits FOSC0 and
FOSC1 to correspond to HS mode in order to operate at that speed.
Not knowing much about PIC's, I cannot offer more, but it appears that
there are ample design questions that may not have been properly
addressed, and you may need to start by handing the engineer a datasheet
opened to page 49 or thereabouts.
It is very common to damage or break a crystal. It is even more common
to attempt to make the wrong one work in an improperly designed circuit.
JaMi Smith=20
* * *
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:37 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] 20 Mhz crystal start-up woes
Jason
Are you using ultrasonic cleaning? This is a sure way of buggering up
quartz crystals.
Brian
Jason wrote:
>
> Has anyone had difficulty with crystal start-up.
> Currently we are having problems with a circuit that uses a PIC16C711-
> 201/P, 2 @ 22pF load caps and a 20 Mhz AT crystal. The configuration
is for
> fundamental operation.
>
> We are using a high temp screen (85 deg C storage before functional
check)
> to try and weed out problems but have still found modules not
functional at
> the production plant.
> Sleepy crystals have been discussed but we have experimented with
three
> different manufactures of crystals we have ruled this out.
> One of our action items is to redesign and use 10 Mhz, but right now
we
> aren't sure of the root cause of failure so there really isn't a
guarantee
> that this plan will work.
>
> What are some specific design parameters that could be measured to
arrive
> at the root cause?
>
> Thanks,
> Jason
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:29:35 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: TAIYOYUDEN CERAMIC CAPS
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1EACA.E90DE5A0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1EACA.E90DE5A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
We recently have seen a similar condition on resistors 1206 resistors. Nice
looking connections but very high resistance readings. Reflow by hand and
resistance drops to normal. We have not identified the cause yet. I'll keep
you in the loop.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:11 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] TAIYOYUDEN CERAMIC CAPS
Fellow TNers,
Wanted to see if any one else has experienced this.
We are using a 1uF X7R 1206 of this particular cap and using the
recommended reflow profile for the solder paste. The test is to ground one
end of the cap and measure the noise level from the other end through a
330kohm impedance circuit. What we have seen is that after the PCB is
reflowed and tested, the noise level is at some specific amplitude. We can
then re-solder the cap by hand and the noise level will drop an order of
magnitude. The reflow soldering appears to be good - nice fillet, wetting,
structurally sound. We were speculating if perhaps the termination ends of
the cap were disconnecting internally during the reflow (CTE problems) and
that the hand soldering is somehow connecting it back. I have noticed that
the recommended reflow profile of the cap specifies a much shorter liquidous
time than what the paste profile requires. This could also be the problem. I
have not yet been able to speak with the component manufacture to get !
their opinion.
Sorry for the lengthy message and thanks for your feedback,
Danny
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1EACA.E90DE5A0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D193412717-23042002>We=20
recently have seen a similar condition on resistors 1206 resistors. Nice =
looking=20
connections but very high resistance readings. Reflow by hand and =
resistance=20
drops to normal. We have not identified the cause yet. I'll keep you in =
the=20
loop.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 23, 2002 =
12:11=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] TAIYOYUDEN =
CERAMIC=20
CAPS<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Fellow =
TNers,</FONT>=20
<BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Wanted to see if any one else =
has=20
experienced this.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>We are =
using a 1uF=20
X7R 1206 of this particular cap and using the recommended reflow =
profile for=20
the solder paste. The test is to ground one end of the cap and measure =
the=20
noise level from the other end through a 330kohm impedance circuit. =
What we=20
have seen is that after the PCB is reflowed and tested, the noise =
level is at=20
some specific amplitude. We can then re-solder the cap by hand and the =
noise=20
level will drop an order of magnitude. The reflow soldering appears to =
be good=20
- nice fillet, wetting, structurally sound. We were speculating if =
perhaps the=20
termination ends of the cap were disconnecting internally during the =
reflow=20
(CTE problems) and that the hand soldering is somehow connecting it =
back. I=20
have noticed that the recommended reflow profile of the cap specifies =
a much=20
shorter liquidous time than what the paste profile requires. This =
could also=20
be the problem. I have not yet been able to speak with the component=20
manufacture to get ! their opinion. </FONT><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2>Sorry for the lengthy message and thanks for your =
feedback,</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2>Danny</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C1EACA.E90DE5A0--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:29:00 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Greg Scott <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Cray Inc
Subject: Re: uBGA routing
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
HI Alan,
Sounds like the only thing you can do is reduce via drill size from .010 to .008.
That would give 5.5mils per side annular ring on .019 pad. With the board being .064 thick that is
only 8:1 aspect ratio.
A good fabrication shop should be able to handle this.
I take it this is an 8 layer board with external foils and micro vias on top only? This should be no
problem for experienced fabrication shop doing this kind of stackup process. It always helps if this
is your tightest drilling tolerance requirements on board that it is located
as close to center of board as possible.
Regards,
Greg Scott
Cray Inc.
Alan Groves wrote:
> Hi Technetters, any help that could be given on following problem would be
> greatly appreciated...
>
> I am currently routing a PCB which has 532 pin uBGAs on it, these have a
> pitch of 0,8mm (31,5 thou). I have followed manufacturer's design guidelines
> in the past but am still receiving complaints from fabricators. I have
> resolved vertically by having a 6 thou microvia drilled thru pad centres to
> layer 2, then routed on layer 2 to a buried via (layers 2-7) of 10 thou
> drill, 19 thou land. The track and gap allowance is 4 thou minimum. I am
> using thermal connection pads of 17 (internal) and 26 (external) thou, and
> isolating pads of 24 thou - all only on buried vias, I cannot increase these
> pad sizes (much) or I could block GND and PWR from getting to destinations.
> Fabricators complain of copper features too close to drill hole, are they
> talking skew, or 'tear out' by that much (8 thou 'ish)?
> The board is 1,6mm thick FR4, 8 conducting layers, no controlled impedance.
>
> Can anyone suggest any tricks or tweaks to sizes that would assist?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Alan Groves,
> Senior PCB Designer CID
> Spectel Head Office, 21 Stillorgan Ind. Park, Stillorgan,
> Co. Dublin. Ireland.
> Phone: 353 907 62803
> Fax: 353 1 2953740
> Email: [log in to unmask]
> Internet: www.spectel.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:38:06 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA Microscopes
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
We tried the ERSA scope, and the OC White scope, etc. and have found a
cheap and easy solution. We use a small beveled mirror on the end of a
handle (glued on) and focus on it with a microscope. With a little
practice, it becomes a great quick and dirty inspection tool that is able
to see the outer and second rows. If you're interested, I can let you know
where we get our mirrors.
Ed
At 11:27 AM 4/23/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello Technetters,
>
>I'm familiar with the ERSA Scope.
>
>Any experience on the ERSA or recommendations on other similar equipment.
>
>I currently have X-ray capability, but would like to peek under the BGA and
>see those balls.
>
>
>Al
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
>SET Technet NOMAIL
>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
>[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
>Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
>Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:16:24 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Miguel Vallejo <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Miguel Vallejo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Shorts in PLCC Sockets
X-To: Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
base on your description, the following questions come to mind:
1. Could the part have come with the condition?
2. Is there an open area in the PCB, near the socket in question, through
wich solder can over flow and get underneath the socket?
-----Original Message-----
From: Andre Leclair [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 9:09 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Shorts in PLCC Sockets
We have recently run across a situation which has baffled us. On the PCB
in question there are 4 Wave soldered PLCC sockets. 1 of these is being
reported as having solder shorts underneath. On the returned units we x-
rayed the sockets ( can't see under) and found shorts on 1 socket location
only. The shorts were consistanly on the same pin area for all the sockets
were the shorts were found. We removed a socket only to find the board
very clean underneath...no shorts..
The socket has a bottom retainer to hold all the pins in place.. This was
pried off and to our surprise there was the short.. inside the connector.
The amount of solder was enough to surround 3 pins in 2 seperate areas.
The hole around the pins in the plastic base is no more then 0.002".
Does any one have any idea how solder could have gotten up inside the
connector ( consistantly in the same location)? Or has any one seen this
before?
We have run this assembly several times in the past with no difficulty.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:26:33 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Shorts in PLCC Sockets
X-To: [log in to unmask]
base on your description, the following questions come to mind:
1. Could the part have come with the condition?
We are investigating with the part manufacture with no results as of yet.
They are
2. Is there an open area in the PCB, near the socket in question, through
wich solder can over flow and get underneath the socket?
There are no holes in the PCB near the socket where solder extra solder
could have migrated under the socket and then under the pin retainer. When
the socket was removed there was now evidance that extra solder had been
between the board and the socket base. For the amount of solder that was
between the base and the main body of the socket there should have been
evidance of solder ( the plastic body marks very easily at 500'F).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:06:43 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
John Foster <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: John Foster <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Via Plug
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello, I am new to this listserver. I must say that it is very
informative. I wish I had known of it long ago.
I have a question about via plugging. Right now
our board vendor is doing our via plugs with
I guess with a standard epoxy. We are trying
to find a solution that would give us a much
better thermal performance.
We are looking at silver epoxy and this
material from Dupont. Does anyone know of
some material that would give us a really good
thermal performance. We are in a commercial
environment. So the material does not have to
meet industrial specs.
Any input on this matter would be greatly '
appreciated.
Thank You
John Foster
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:14:04 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA Microscopes
X-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Al,
Try www.minimicrostencil.com They have a mini-mirror BGA inspection tool.
Works pretty good with a scope. Can look at the first row of balls all
around the BGA. We use it for incoming inspection.
Kerry
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:28 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] BGA Microscopes
Hello Technetters,
I'm familiar with the ERSA Scope.
Any experience on the ERSA or recommendations on other similar equipment.
I currently have X-ray capability, but would like to peek under the BGA and
see those balls.
Al
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:05:39 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: PREPREG
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello, Technetters:
I'm very naive when it comes to prepreg, so I'll go to the experts. Is
there a list available of prepreg designations (i.e. 2313, 1080, 106, etc.)
with the respective properties? Will a stack-up of the three prepregs
mentioned yield a thickness of .006 inches? Where can I find information on
hot to specify prepreg layers in a PWB?
Thanks in advance,
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:34:48 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Shorts in PLCC Sockets
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I have seen this condition caused by over active chipwave and excessive
setting on an omega wave. The omega wave is a vibrating plate in the
solderwave that produces turbulence in the lambda wave (main wave) that is
perpendicular to the normal wave dynamics. The action forces solder up
through the board, bridges form at the heels of the springs that form the
socket contacts.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Andre Leclair
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 2:27 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Shorts in PLCC Sockets
>
>
> base on your description, the following questions come to mind:
> 1. Could the part have come with the condition?
> We are investigating with the part manufacture with no results as of yet.
> They are
>
> 2. Is there an open area in the PCB, near the socket in question, through
> wich solder can over flow and get underneath the socket?
>
> There are no holes in the PCB near the socket where solder extra solder
> could have migrated under the socket and then under the pin
> retainer. When
> the socket was removed there was now evidance that extra solder had been
> between the board and the socket base. For the amount of solder that was
> between the base and the main body of the socket there should have been
> evidance of solder ( the plastic body marks very easily at 500'F).
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:28:16 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Via Plug
X-To: John Foster <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Try DuPont CB100.
http://www.dupont.com/mcm/new/viaplug.html
Good Luck!
Kerry
-----Original Message-----
From: John Foster [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 3:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Via Plug
Hello, I am new to this listserver. I must say that it is very
informative. I wish I had known of it long ago.
I have a question about via plugging. Right now
our board vendor is doing our via plugs with
I guess with a standard epoxy. We are trying
to find a solution that would give us a much
better thermal performance.
We are looking at silver epoxy and this
material from Dupont. Does anyone know of
some material that would give us a really good
thermal performance. We are in a commercial
environment. So the material does not have to
meet industrial specs.
Any input on this matter would be greatly '
appreciated.
Thank You
John Foster
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:07:36 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
tony steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PREPREG
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
James,
Your question seems so simple to answer but someone could actually write a
50
page book about it. Some of the material manufacturers have on their web
site
the thicknesses, resin content, gel time, etc. of all the pregs that they
manufacture.
The problem is that they vary somewhat from manufacturer to manufacturer,
and you may
also get variation from board house to board house. The three mentioned
prepregs in my past
experience would actually be .008-.009. My personal advice would be not to
have specified
prepregs on the print and and stick to overall board tolerance.(unless
controlled impedence
is involved).Leave the stackup to the board manufacturer.
You can contact me offline if you would like.
Regards,
Tony Steinke
[log in to unmask]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:05 PM
Subject: [TN] PREPREG
> Hello, Technetters:
>
> I'm very naive when it comes to prepreg, so I'll go to the experts. Is
> there a list available of prepreg designations (i.e. 2313, 1080, 106,
etc.)
> with the respective properties? Will a stack-up of the three prepregs
> mentioned yield a thickness of .006 inches? Where can I find information
on
> hot to specify prepreg layers in a PWB?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jim Marsico
> Senior Engineer
> Production Engineering
> EDO Electronics Systems Group
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> 631-595-5879
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:20:52 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Torres, Roberto" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Torres, Roberto" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Microscopes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi All;
Does anyone know an inexpensive why to adapt a microscope to take
digital pictures of parts of assemblies PCB's.
Regards
Bob Torres
-----Original Message-----
From: McMullen, Kerry [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] BGA Microscopes
Hi Al,
Try www.minimicrostencil.com They have a mini-mirror BGA inspection tool.
Works pretty good with a scope. Can look at the first row of balls all
around the BGA. We use it for incoming inspection.
Kerry
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:28 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] BGA Microscopes
Hello Technetters,
I'm familiar with the ERSA Scope.
Any experience on the ERSA or recommendations on other similar equipment.
I currently have X-ray capability, but would like to peek under the BGA and
see those balls.
Al
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:48:49 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Looking for used oven in Canada
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi all,
I'm looking for a used cure oven (batch) or a reflow oven with board
clearance of 3". It would be used for curing conformal coating.
Anyone, anyone???
Peter Crain
Manufacturing Engineering Technologist
Substation Automation Solutions
General Electric Canada Inc.
2728 Hopewell Place N.E., Calgary, Alberta T1Y 7J7 CANADA
Tel: 403.214.4560 Dialcomm: 8.498.4560, Fax: 403.214.4776
Website: www.gepower.com/geharrisenergy/
NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail is privileged, confidential
and intended solely for the use of the addressee named above. If the reader
of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me
immediately by telephone (collect) at (1) 403.214.4400 and destroy this
e-mail as well as any copy. Thank you.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:48:23 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Microscopes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_bc.256daa77.29f730a7_boundary"
--part1_bc.256daa77.29f730a7_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Bob!
I have a FUJIFILM MX-600ZOOM digital camera and I focus whatever I want a
picture of under the microscope, take the rubber eye-cup off one of the
microscope lenses,
put the lense of the camera up against the microscope lense, look at the LCD
in the back of the camera to make sure the camera is seeing what I want a
picture of, then snap! I got the picture! Can't get much cheaper than that...
Go to my page at: http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com and look at the pictures
called Via N Pad...I took the pictures the way I just described, not too
shabby, huh?
-Steve Gregory-
> Hi All;
>
> Does anyone know an inexpensive why to adapt a microscope to take
> digital pictures of parts of assemblies PCB's.
>
> Regards
> Bob Torres
>
--part1_bc.256daa77.29f730a7_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Bob!
<BR>
<BR>I have a FUJIFILM MX-600ZOOM digital camera and I focus whatever I want a picture of under the microscope, take the rubber eye-cup off one of the microscope lenses,
<BR>put the lense of the camera up against the microscope lense, look at the LCD in the back of the camera to make sure the camera is seeing what I want a picture of, then snap! I got the picture! Can't get much cheaper than that...
<BR>
<BR>Go to my page at: http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com and look at the pictures called Via N Pad...I took the pictures the way I just described, not too shabby, huh?
<BR>
<BR>-Steve Gregory-
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hi All;
<BR>
<BR>Does anyone know an inexpensive why to adapt a microscope to take
<BR>digital pictures of parts of assemblies PCB's.
<BR>
<BR>Regards
<BR>Bob Torres
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT></HTML>
--part1_bc.256daa77.29f730a7_boundary--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:37:03 +0930
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Lothar Thole <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Lothar Thole <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microscopes
X-To: "Torres, Roberto" <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bob
I have found it much easier to just buy a Nikon Coolpix 990, which has a
built-in macro lens, and can focus down to 0.5". No microscope needed!
Regards,
Lothar Thole
=======================================================
Lothar Thole
Product Engineering Manager
Vision Fire and Security
14 Park Way
Technology Park
MAWSON LAKES SA 5095
AUSTRALIA.
tel: +61-(0)8-8462-1151 (direct)
tel: +61-(0)8-8462-1000
fax: +61-(0)8-8462-1001
mobile: +61-(0)407-166-600
email: [log in to unmask]
web site: www.vsl.com.au/adpro
=======================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Torres, Roberto
Sent: Wednesday, 24 April 2002 6:51 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Microscopes
Hi All;
Does anyone know an inexpensive why to adapt a microscope to take
digital pictures of parts of assemblies PCB's.
Regards
Bob Torres
-----Original Message-----
From: McMullen, Kerry [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] BGA Microscopes
Hi Al,
Try www.minimicrostencil.com They have a mini-mirror BGA inspection tool.
Works pretty good with a scope. Can look at the first row of balls all
around the BGA. We use it for incoming inspection.
Kerry
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:28 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] BGA Microscopes
Hello Technetters,
I'm familiar with the ERSA Scope.
Any experience on the ERSA or recommendations on other similar equipment.
I currently have X-ray capability, but would like to peek under the BGA and
see those balls.
Al
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:39:35 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Torres, Roberto" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Torres, Roberto" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microscopes
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1EB20.2071FB8A"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EB20.2071FB8A
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks Steve.
Regards
Bob Torres
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 2:48 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Microscopes
Hi Bob!
I have a FUJIFILM MX-600ZOOM digital camera and I focus whatever I want a
picture of under the microscope, take the rubber eye-cup off one of the
microscope lenses,
put the lense of the camera up against the microscope lense, look at the LCD
in the back of the camera to make sure the camera is seeing what I want a
picture of, then snap! I got the picture! Can't get much cheaper than
that...
Go to my page at: http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com and look at the
pictures called Via N Pad...I took the pictures the way I just described,
not too shabby, huh?
-Steve Gregory-
Hi All;
Does anyone know an inexpensive why to adapt a microscope to take
digital pictures of parts of assemblies PCB's.
Regards
Bob Torres
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EB20.2071FB8A
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=350133923-23042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Thanks
Steve.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=350133923-23042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=350133923-23042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Regards</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=350133923-23042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Bob
Torres</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 23, 2002 2:48
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN]
Microscopes<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>Hi
Bob! <BR><BR>I have a FUJIFILM MX-600ZOOM digital camera and I focus whatever
I want a picture of under the microscope, take the rubber eye-cup off one of
the microscope lenses, <BR>put the lense of the camera up against the
microscope lense, look at the LCD in the back of the camera to make sure the
camera is seeing what I want a picture of, then snap! I got the picture! Can't
get much cheaper than that... <BR><BR>Go to my page at:
http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com and look at the pictures called Via N
Pad...I took the pictures the way I just described, not too shabby, huh?
<BR><BR>-Steve Gregory- <BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">Hi All; <BR><BR>Does anyone know an inexpensive why to adapt a
microscope to take <BR>digital pictures of parts of assemblies PCB's.
<BR><BR>Regards <BR>Bob Torres <BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 face=Arial
color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EB20.2071FB8A--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:25:17 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: PREPREG
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Just one thing to add, if it is controlled impedance, specify what impedance
you want and what tolerance on the impedance and let the supplier select
prepreg to meet the requirement.
----- Original Message -----
Wrom: OYIYZUNNYCGPKYLEJGDGVCJVTLBXFGGMEPYOQKEDO
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] PREPREG
> James,
> Your question seems so simple to answer but someone could actually write a
> 50
> page book about it. Some of the material manufacturers have on their web
> site
> the thicknesses, resin content, gel time, etc. of all the pregs that they
> manufacture.
> The problem is that they vary somewhat from manufacturer to manufacturer,
> and you may
> also get variation from board house to board house. The three mentioned
> prepregs in my past
> experience would actually be .008-.009. My personal advice would be not to
> have specified
> prepregs on the print and and stick to overall board tolerance.(unless
> controlled impedence
> is involved).Leave the stackup to the board manufacturer.
> You can contact me offline if you would like.
> Regards,
> Tony Steinke
> [log in to unmask]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Wrom: TWFAOBUZXUWLSZLKBRNVWWCUFPEGAUTFJMVRESKPNKM
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:05 PM
> Subject: [TN] PREPREG
>
>
> > Hello, Technetters:
> >
> > I'm very naive when it comes to prepreg, so I'll go to the experts. Is
> > there a list available of prepreg designations (i.e. 2313, 1080, 106,
> etc.)
> > with the respective properties? Will a stack-up of the three prepregs
> > mentioned yield a thickness of .006 inches? Where can I find
information
> on
> > hot to specify prepreg layers in a PWB?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Jim Marsico
> > Senior Engineer
> > Production Engineering
> > EDO Electronics Systems Group
> > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > 631-595-5879
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> > Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:03:37 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Seth Goodman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 20 Mhz crystal start-up woes
X-To: Jason <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jason,
I don't know about that particular PIC processor, but many processors have a
programmable oscillator start-up delay (fuse selectable). This is to allow
the oscillator to stabilize before allowing the processor to run.
Typically, processors that have this feature have two or three settings.
Shortest delay is usually for RC oscillator (yes, people do use these!),
medium delay for ceramic resonator and longest delay is for crystal. Check
to see if your processor has this option and set the delay to the longest
possible. Crystals have very high-Q and therefore take a long time to
settle down.
Regards,
Seth Goodman
Goodman Associates, LLC
tel 608.833.9933
fax 608.833.9966
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jason
> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 11:24 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] 20 Mhz crystal start-up woes
>
>
> Has anyone had difficulty with crystal start-up.
> Currently we are having problems with a circuit that uses a PIC16C711-
> 201/P, 2 @ 22pF load caps and a 20 Mhz AT crystal. The
> configuration is for
> fundamental operation.
>
> We are using a high temp screen (85 deg C storage before functional check)
> to try and weed out problems but have still found modules not
> functional at
> the production plant.
> Sleepy crystals have been discussed but we have experimented with three
> different manufactures of crystals we have ruled this out.
> One of our action items is to redesign and use 10 Mhz, but right now we
> aren't sure of the root cause of failure so there really isn't a guarantee
> that this plan will work.
>
> What are some specific design parameters that could be measured to arrive
> at the root cause?
>
> Thanks,
> Jason
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:09:01 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Seth Goodman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: TAIYOYUDEN CERAMIC CAPS
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01C1EB02.B5AE8560"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C1EB02.B5AE8560
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Dan,
I've seen this same problem many years ago from other manufacturers of
ceramic capacitors as well. The bottom line is that these big ceramics are
not great in low-noise analog filter circuits. Since this application only
represents a small percentage of the total use of these components, the
manufacturers don't consistently check for this problem. This may not be
what you want to hear, but the only long-term solution I found was going to
film caps for this application.
Regards,
Seth Goodman
Goodman Associates, LLC
tel 608.833.9933
fax 608.833.9966
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:10 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] TAIYOYUDEN CERAMIC CAPS
Fellow TNers,
Wanted to see if any one else has experienced this.
We are using a 1uF X7R 1206 of this particular cap and using the
recommended reflow profile for the solder paste. The test is to ground one
end of the cap and measure the noise level from the other end through a
330kohm impedance circuit. What we have seen is that after the PCB is
reflowed and tested, the noise level is at some specific amplitude. We can
then re-solder the cap by hand and the noise level will drop an order of
magnitude. The reflow soldering appears to be good - nice fillet, wetting,
structurally sound. We were speculating if perhaps the termination ends of
the cap were disconnecting internally during the reflow (CTE problems) and
that the hand soldering is somehow connecting it back. I have noticed that
the recommended reflow profile of the cap specifies a much shorter liquidous
time than what the paste profile requires. This could also be the problem. I
have not yet been able to speak with the component manufacture to get !
their opinion.
Sorry for the lengthy message and thanks for your feedback,
Danny
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C1EB02.B5AE8560
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D058380401-24042002><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi=20
Dan,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D058380401-24042002><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D058380401-24042002><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've =
seen this same=20
problem many years ago from other manufacturers of ceramic capacitors as =
well. The bottom line is that these big ceramics are not great in=20
low-noise analog filter circuits. Since this application only =
represents a=20
small percentage of the total use of these components, the manufacturers =
don't=20
consistently check for this problem. This may not be what you want =
to=20
hear, but the only long-term solution I found was going to film caps for =
this=20
application.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D058380401-24042002> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,<BR><BR>Seth Goodman<BR>Goodman =
Associates,=20
LLC<BR>tel 608.833.9933<BR>fax 608.833.9966<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of=20
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 23, 2002 =
11:10=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] TAIYOYUDEN =
CERAMIC=20
CAPS<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Fellow =
TNers,</FONT>=20
<BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Wanted to see if any one else =
has=20
experienced this.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>We are =
using a 1uF=20
X7R 1206 of this particular cap and using the recommended reflow =
profile for=20
the solder paste. The test is to ground one end of the cap and measure =
the=20
noise level from the other end through a 330kohm impedance circuit. =
What we=20
have seen is that after the PCB is reflowed and tested, the noise =
level is at=20
some specific amplitude. We can then re-solder the cap by hand and the =
noise=20
level will drop an order of magnitude. The reflow soldering appears to =
be good=20
- nice fillet, wetting, structurally sound. We were speculating if =
perhaps the=20
termination ends of the cap were disconnecting internally during the =
reflow=20
(CTE problems) and that the hand soldering is somehow connecting it =
back. I=20
have noticed that the recommended reflow profile of the cap specifies =
a much=20
shorter liquidous time than what the paste profile requires. This =
could also=20
be the problem. I have not yet been able to speak with the component=20
manufacture to get ! their opinion. </FONT><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2>Sorry for the lengthy message and thanks for your =
feedback,</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2>Danny</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C1EB02.B5AE8560--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:26:24 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: TAIYOYUDEN CERAMIC CAPS
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Can't offer an answer, Danny, but may add a bit more fuel to your fire.
I've just had a board returned to me by the Test Engineer, who found two
X7R 0805 caps "missing". By "missing", I mean that the solder joints and
the component end caps were still there, but the ceramic centre portion had
disappeared.
One of several possible suspects that immediately sprang to mind, was this:
There appears to be more solder in the solder joint than is strictly
acceptable, though this board is a development model. I wondered if the
large amount of solder, while contracting when cooling, was pulling the
ends of the caps, allowing the middles to fall out. Anyone got any thoughts
or experiences about this? I have a couple of not-terribly-good pictures I
can show you, if they might help to focus thoughts.
Peter
[log in to unmask] 24/04/2002 12:10 AM
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to danny.harkins
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST Aero/ST Group)
Subject: [TN] TAIYOYUDEN CERAMIC CAPS
Fellow TNers,
Wanted to see if any one else has experienced this.
We are using a 1uF X7R 1206 of this particular cap and using the
recommended reflow profile for the solder paste. The test is to ground one
end of the cap and measure the noise level from the other end through a
330kohm impedance circuit. What we have seen is that after the PCB is
reflowed and tested, the noise level is at some specific amplitude. We can
then re-solder the cap by hand and the noise level will drop an order of
magnitude. The reflow soldering appears to be good - nice fillet, wetting,
structurally sound. We were speculating if perhaps the termination ends of
the cap were disconnecting internally during the reflow (CTE problems) and
that the hand soldering is somehow connecting it back. I have noticed that
the recommended reflow profile of the cap specifies a much shorter
liquidous time than what the paste profile requires. This could also be the
problem. I have not yet been able to speak with the component manufacture
to get ! their opinion.
Sorry for the lengthy message and thanks for your feedback,
Danny
[This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should
not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other
person. Thank you.]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:34:42 -0400
Reply-To: Liviu Jurjica <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Liviu Jurjica <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microscopes
X-To: "Torres, Roberto" <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Bob,
took this picture ...mictor_rew.jpg... with a Mavica barely hooked to a
microscpe ;-) (sory, missed a reply to the spelling topic, foud it
challenging geetin the mispeling right).
See attachments for picture taken trough the microscope; actually, I had
another shot, better, including solder balls melted to the connector
housing, can't find it right now.
I have another nice shot of Portsmouth, taken with the same Mavica, while
looking trough USS Albacore's periscope..
Anyway, shouldn't be much of a problem getting pictures of parts of
assembled PCB's even if not using adaptors, brackets etc.
for mounting any digital camera to the microscope.
G'nite and good luck in your photographic sessions.
LJ
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Torres, Roberto
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Microscopes
Hi All;
Does anyone know an inexpensive why to adapt a microscope to take
digital pictures of parts of assemblies PCB's.
Regards
Bob Torres
-----Original Message-----
From: McMullen, Kerry [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] BGA Microscopes
Hi Al,
Try www.minimicrostencil.com They have a mini-mirror BGA inspection tool.
Works pretty good with a scope. Can look at the first row of balls all
around the BGA. We use it for incoming inspection.
Kerry
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:28 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] BGA Microscopes
Hello Technetters,
I'm familiar with the ERSA Scope.
Any experience on the ERSA or recommendations on other similar equipment.
I currently have X-ray capability, but would like to peek under the BGA and
see those balls.
Al
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:11:38 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
We recently received a prototype batch of 4 boards and experienced 4 for 4
failing test. Our techs sprayed down certain chips with Freeze Spray and
the board began working properly, at least for a short period of time. I
have checked prior tech net postings and have found fantastic responses as
to why Freeze Spray can damage a the IC or board, but can anyone explain why
they would begin functioning properly. Being a rookie component engineer I
can fully understand the issues related to freeze spray, but out techs and
design engineers are just going to point the finger since their units work
when sprayed. To further complicate the matter the chips that are being
sprayed are not all the same manufacturer and I can easily rule out a
component failure. Our senior engineer thinks that it may be timing related
since the main circuit being froze is the Altera PLD (20K400E) and related
circuitry.
Can anyone defend the use of Freeze Spray?
Can anyone present a logical failure mechanism?
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
The best Freeze Spray argument to date was Werner Engelmaier's:
http://jefry.ipc.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9907&L=TechNet&D=0&m=23823&P=55370
However this points to failure after spray not the opposite.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:57:36 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: PCB Drill press
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1EB1A.433E06A0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1EB1A.433E06A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello,
Does anyone know of a table-top drill press with precision location for
proto PCB drilling?
I am looking for drilling ~0.020" dia holes with +/- 0.003" max drill
run-out (straightness at drill end) and accuracy in x-y location. The
holes are used to attach thermal-couples for BGA profiling.
Rgds,
Peter
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1EB1A.433E06A0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" =
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<meta name=3DProgId content=3DWord.Document>
<meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 10">
<meta name=3DOriginator content=3D"Microsoft Word 10">
<link rel=3DFile-List href=3D"cid:[log in to unmask]">
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
<o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/>
</o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:WordDocument>
<w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState>
<w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState>
<w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind>
<w:EnvelopeVis/>
<w:Compatibility>
<w:UseFELayout/>
</w:Compatibility>
<w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel>
</w:WordDocument>
</xml><![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:SimSun;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-alt:\5B8B\4F53;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@SimSun";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;
mso-font-charset:134;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 135135232 16 0 262145 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;
color:windowtext;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;
text-underline:single;}
p
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-fareast-font-family:SimSun;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;
mso-ascii-font-family:Arial;
mso-hansi-font-family:Arial;
mso-bidi-font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
span.SpellE
{mso-style-name:"";
mso-spl-e:yes;}
span.GramE
{mso-style-name:"";
mso-gram-e:yes;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
mso-header-margin:.5in;
mso-footer-margin:.5in;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 10]>
<style>
/* Style Definitions */=20
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
</style>
<![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple =
style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hello,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Does anyone know of a table-top =
drill
press with precision location for proto PCB =
drilling?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am looking for drilling =
~0.020” <span
class=3DSpellE>dia</span> holes with +/- 0.003” max drill run-out
(straightness at drill end) and accuracy in x-y location. The holes are =
used to
attach thermal-couples for BGA profiling.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DSpellE><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Rgds</span></font=
></span><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Peter<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1EB1A.433E06A0--
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:58:56 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PREPREG
X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jim,
I guess most fabricators would say don't specify prepreg types - unless you
have a real reason for doing so. It's best to specify dielectric spacings
only, even for a controlled impedance board.
Prepregs vary from manufacturer to another, also the finished thickness is
dependant on a number of factors in board fabrication such as bonding
pressure, vacuum and heat up rate.
You can find info on glass styles at www.ppg.com and www.bgf.com
Most of the laminators give pre-preg details on their web sites.
I Have some general info on prepreg if you are interested.
regards
Geoff Layhe
www.lamar-uk.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: Marsico, James [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 23 April 2002 21:06
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] PREPREG
Hello, Technetters:
I'm very naive when it comes to prepreg, so I'll go to the experts. Is
there a list available of prepreg designations (i.e. 2313, 1080, 106, etc.)
with the respective properties? Will a stack-up of the three prepregs
mentioned yield a thickness of .006 inches? Where can I find information on
hot to specify prepreg layers in a PWB?
Thanks in advance,
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Private & Confidential:
This e-mail message is confidential and is intended solely for the person or
organisation to whom it is addressed. If the message is received by anyone
other than the addressee please return the message to the sender by replying
to it and then delete the message from your computer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:10:02 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Via Plug
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
John, We've looked into the sand thing a while ago, and found that just by
increasing the copper plating in the hole to 2 mils will give you far better
thermal performance than any thermally conductive epoxy for hole fill.
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: John Foster [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 3:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Via Plug
Hello, I am new to this listserver. I must say that it is very
informative. I wish I had known of it long ago.
I have a question about via plugging. Right now
our board vendor is doing our via plugs with
I guess with a standard epoxy. We are trying
to find a solution that would give us a much
better thermal performance.
We are looking at silver epoxy and this
material from Dupont. Does anyone know of
some material that would give us a really good
thermal performance. We are in a commercial
environment. So the material does not have to
meet industrial specs.
Any input on this matter would be greatly '
appreciated.
Thank You
John Foster
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:03:15 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PREPREG
X-To: [log in to unmask]
I created and have used the following table for years and all my qualified
fabricators indulge me as I use only these glass styles and resin contents
with the rules indicated as no 7628 use but when "sandwiched" between more
resin rich types. Caveats worked out concurrently but when done, my master
drawing notes require, as an example, TDR correlation with X-Sections and
the materials required in the construction on the master drawing.
I have other tables of similar nature and my master drawing notes. Some of
you asked for them and I'm offering them again if you ask off line,
MooMan
TABLE I
Core Chart For Dimensional Stability,
MLB Laminate Integrity, And Impedance Control
REQUIREMENT
PREFERRED NOT PREFERRED
PREG THICKNESS/" GLASS STYLE/% RESIN - SINGLE PLY
0.0020
106 (70%)
0.0025
1080 (65%)
0.0040
2113 (58%)
0.0050
2116 (53%)
0.0070
7628 (43%)
DIELECTRIC THICKNESS/" GLASS STYLE - MULTI PLY
0.005 106, 2113 1080,1080
0.006 1080, 2113 106,106,106
0.007 1080, 2116 7628
0.008 2113, 2116 2113,1080,2113
0.009 2116, 2116 1080,2116,1080
0.010 2116, 2116 1080,2116,1080
0.011 2113, 1080, 2113 106,7628,106
0.012 1080, 7628, 1080 2113,2113,2113
0.013
2113, 7628, 2113 7628,7628
0.014 2113, 7628, 2113 7628,7628
0.015 2113, 7628, 2113
0.016 2113, 7628, 2113 or use 2116,7628,2116
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:03:59 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: PCB Drill press
X-To: Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0041260F48256BA5_="
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
--=_alternative 0041260F48256BA5_=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
dear peter,
just look to FARNELL CATALOGUE 2001 book 2
=20
Ricky M. Javier
RF PCC Process Engineering
Philips Semiconductors Phils., Inc.
Tel. Nos.: (6349) 5430001 to 25 ext. 288
(632) 8445139 ext. 288
Fax Nos.: (632) 8445248/(6349) 5430027
e-mail : [log in to unmask]
Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
04-24-2002 01:57 PM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to Peter Lee
=20
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Enrique M Javier/CUB/SC/PHILIPS)
Subject: [TN] PCB Drill press
Classification:=20
Hello,
=20
Does anyone know of a table-top drill press with precision location for=20
proto PCB drilling?
I am looking for drilling ~0.020" dia holes with +/- 0.003" max drill=20
run-out (straightness at drill end) and accuracy in x-y location. The=20
holes are used to attach thermal-couples for BGA profiling.
=20
=20
Rgds,
Peter
=20
--=_alternative 0041260F48256BA5_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">dear peter,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"> just loo=
k to FARNELL CATALOGUE 2001 book 2</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"> </font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Ricky M. Javier<br>
RF PCC Process Engineering<br>
Philips Semiconductors Phils., Inc.<br>
Tel. Nos.: (6349) 5430001 to 25 ext. 288<br>
(632)=
8445139 ext. 288<br>
Fax Nos.: (632) 8445248/(6349) 5430027<br>
e-mail : [log in to unmask]<br>
<br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>=
;</b></font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]
></font>
<p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">04-24-2002 01:57 PM</font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Please respond to "TechNet E-Ma=
il Forum."; Please respond to Peter Lee</font>
<br>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"> To: &nbs=
p; [log in to unmask]</font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"> cc: &nbs=
p; (bcc: Enrique M Javier/CUB/SC/PHILIPS)</font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"> Subject:=
[TN] PCB Drill press</font>
<p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"> Classific=
ation: </font>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial">Hello,</font>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial"> </font>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial">Does anyone know of a tabl=
e-top drill press with precision location for proto PCB drilling?</font>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial">I am looking for drilling =
~0.020" dia holes with +/- 0.003" max drill run-out (straightness at drill =
end) and accuracy in x-y location. The holes are used to attach thermal-cou=
ples for BGA profiling.</font>
<p><font size=3D3 color=3D#000080 face=3D"Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=3D3 color=3D#000080 face=3D"Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial">Rgds,</font>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial">Peter</font>
<p><font size=3D2 color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial"> </font>
<p>
<p>
--=_alternative 0041260F48256BA5_=--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:16:20 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Rob Legg <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Rob Legg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
X-To: Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is a tool only.
The non-function should be diagnosable to more orders of magnitude of
accuracy than you are stating. if it is timing only.
If the freeze spray trick is repeatable, a competent design engineer should
be able to give you more informational symptoms than just "it goes now".
That's how you'll find your answers using this tool.
RL
RL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Carlile" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:11 AM
Subject: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
> We recently received a prototype batch of 4 boards and experienced 4 for 4
> failing test. Our techs sprayed down certain chips with Freeze Spray and
> the board began working properly, at least for a short period of time. I
> have checked prior tech net postings and have found fantastic responses as
> to why Freeze Spray can damage a the IC or board, but can anyone explain
why
> they would begin functioning properly. Being a rookie component engineer
I
> can fully understand the issues related to freeze spray, but out techs and
> design engineers are just going to point the finger since their units work
> when sprayed. To further complicate the matter the chips that are being
> sprayed are not all the same manufacturer and I can easily rule out a
> component failure. Our senior engineer thinks that it may be timing
related
> since the main circuit being froze is the Altera PLD (20K400E) and related
> circuitry.
>
> Can anyone defend the use of Freeze Spray?
>
> Can anyone present a logical failure mechanism?
>
> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
>
> The best Freeze Spray argument to date was Werner Engelmaier's:
>
http://jefry.ipc.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9907&L=TechNet&D=0&m=23823&P=55370
>
> However this points to failure after spray not the opposite.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:35:44 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PCB Drill press
X-To: Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1EB8C.8DC28990"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EB8C.8DC28990
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Peter,
Check out Servo Products. They make excellent table top drill presses,
although a bit expensive. We must have a dozen or more on our ship floor
being used every day. Go to: <http://www.servoproductsco.com>
http://www.servoproductsco.com
Jeff Ferry
CEO
Circuit Technology Center, Inc.
http://www.circuittechctr.com <http://www.circuittechctr.com>
[log in to unmask]
978-374-5000
Sign up for our Free E-mail Newsletter at:
http://www.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm
<http://www.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm>
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Lee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:58 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] PCB Drill press
Hello,
Does anyone know of a table-top drill press with precision location for
proto PCB drilling?
I am looking for drilling ~0.020" dia holes with +/- 0.003" max drill
run-out (straightness at drill end) and accuracy in x-y location. The holes
are used to attach thermal-couples for BGA profiling.
Rgds,
Peter
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EB8C.8DC28990
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:o =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3DWord.Document name=3DProgId>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<META content=3D"Microsoft Word 10" name=3DOriginator><LINK=20
href=3D"cid:[log in to unmask]" rel=3DFile-List><!--[if gte =
mso 9]><xml>
<o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
<o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/>
</o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<w:WordDocument>
<w:SpellingState>Clean</w:SpellingState>
<w:GrammarState>Clean</w:GrammarState>
<w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind>
<w:EnvelopeVis/>
<w:Compatibility>
<w:UseFELayout/>
</w:Compatibility>
<w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel>
</w:WordDocument>
</xml><![endif]-->
<STYLE>@font-face {
font-family: SimSun;
}
@font-face {
font-family: @SimSun;
}
@page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; =
mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; mso-paper-source: 0; =
}
P.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =
mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun
}
LI.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =
mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun
}
DIV.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: =
"Times New Roman"; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =
mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun
}
A:link {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlink {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single
}
A:visited {
COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {
COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single
}
P {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; COLOR: black; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; =
FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =
mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; =
mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto
}
SPAN.EmailStyle17 {
COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply; =
mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-family: Arial
}
SPAN.SpellE {
mso-style-name: ""; mso-spl-e: yes
}
SPAN.GramE {
mso-style-name: ""; mso-gram-e: yes
}
DIV.Section1 {
page: Section1
}
</STYLE>
<!--[if gte mso 10]>
<style>
/* Style Definitions */=20
table.MsoNormalTable
{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";
mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;
mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;
mso-style-noshow:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;
mso-para-margin:0in;
mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
</style>
<![endif]--></HEAD>
<BODY lang=3DEN-US style=3D"tab-interval: .5in" vLink=3Dpurple =
link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310353212-24042002><FONT =
size=3D2>Peter,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310353212-24042002><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310353212-24042002><FONT size=3D2>Check out Servo =
Products. They=20
make excellent table top drill presses, although a bit expensive. We =
must have a=20
dozen or more on our ship floor being used every day. Go to: </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.servoproductsco.com"><FONT=20
size=3D2>http://www.servoproductsco.com</FONT></A></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310353212-24042002><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D310353212-24042002><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>Jeff Ferry<BR>CEO<BR>Circuit Technology Center, =
Inc.<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.circuittechctr.com">http://www.circuittechctr.com</A>=
<BR>[log in to unmask]<BR>978-374-5000<BR><BR>Sign=20
up for our Free E-mail Newsletter at:<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm">http://www=
.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm</A></FONT><BR></DIV></FONT><=
/SPAN>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Peter Lee=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 24, 2002 =
1:58=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] PCB Drill=20
press<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Hello,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Does anyone =
know of a=20
table-top drill press with precision location for proto PCB=20
drilling?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am looking =
for=20
drilling ~0.020" <SPAN class=3DSpellE>dia</SPAN> holes with +/- 0.003" =
max drill=20
run-out (straightness at drill end) and accuracy in x-y location. The =
holes are=20
used to attach thermal-couples for BGA =
profiling.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: =
navy"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: =
navy"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DSpellE><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Rgds</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Peter<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EB8C.8DC28990--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:04:47 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Shorts in PLCC Sockets
X-To: [log in to unmask]
On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:34:48 -0400, Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>I have seen this condition caused by over active chipwave and excessive
>setting on an omega wave. The omega wave is a vibrating plate in the
>solderwave that produces turbulence in the lambda wave (main wave) that is
>perpendicular to the normal wave dynamics. The action forces solder up
>through the board, bridges form at the heels of the springs that form the
>socket contacts.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Andre Leclair
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 2:27 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [TN] Shorts in PLCC Sockets
>>
>>
>> base on your description, the following questions come to mind:
>> 1. Could the part have come with the condition?
>> We are investigating with the part manufacture with no results as of yet.
>> They are
>>
>> 2. Is there an open area in the PCB, near the socket in question,
through
>> wich solder can over flow and get underneath the socket?
>>
>> There are no holes in the PCB near the socket where solder extra solder
>> could have migrated under the socket and then under the pin
>> retainer. When
>> the socket was removed there was now evidance that extra solder had been
>> between the board and the socket base. For the amount of solder that was
>> between the base and the main body of the socket there should have been
>> evidance of solder ( the plastic body marks very easily at 500'F).
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------------
>> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
>> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
>> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
>> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
>> Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
>> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
>> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
>> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------------
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
>Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
>Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
The wave setup used is an Electrovert Ultrapak 445
Flux Lonco 3355-11
Conveyer speed 5.6FPM Airknife on
Lamda 6-9rpm
chip wave 6-9rpm
Omega wave 70%
Could this be the cause? I checked another 12 units and found the exact
same short in the same general area inside the socket but no solder between
the PCB and the base of the socket(44 pin). The other 3 PLCC sockets(32
pin) on the board that are only 2-3 inches away are perfectly fine.
The 2 previous 1000pcs runs had no problems using the above settings.
Any SMT parts near the sockets are at least .150" from the pins and are all
603 or 402 parts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:29:01 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microscopes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_0954FE28.680964D8"
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=_0954FE28.680964D8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
This works well for me. I take any microscope (mantis too) and get a =
digital camera. Put the part that you want to photo under the scope then =
take the camera to one of the eye pieces or to one side of a mantis. Be =
patient and make slow movements left and right the camera will be able to =
look through the eye piece. I have been extremely successful using a =
simple digital camera and with a scope that has a wide range I can take =
whatever detail photo I need. =20
I suppose you can also buy something but I haven't been able to justify a =
more pretty set up. =20
Kathy =20
--=_0954FE28.680964D8
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px">
<DIV>This works well for me. I take any microscope (mantis too) and get a
digital camera. Put the part that you want to photo under the scope
then take the camera to one of the eye pieces or to one side of a mantis.
Be patient and make slow movements left and right the camera will be able to
look through the eye piece. I have been extremely successful using a
simple digital camera and with a scope that has a wide range I can take whatever
detail photo I need. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I suppose you can also buy something but I haven't been able to justify a
more pretty set up. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
--=_0954FE28.680964D8--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:58:36 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
X-To: Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Freezing an IC will modify its physical dimension but also will change its
electrical property.
From what you said I would guess that one of the timing of your design is
very marginal and most probably too slow.
When cooling some of the components the electronics actually goes faster
and, the timing being then correct, your design start to behave correctly.
Your engineer should review the timing of the design and can actually check
on the board what happens to the signals when applying the freeze spray.
But be carefull that probing on some signal will also change their
timing...
It may also well be that the timing problem is inside the PLD, to solve
that one the engineer got to redo some simulation with min and max timing.
Now freeze spray can also induce other circuitry to work. For example, an
analog circuit could start working only when cooled down because it was too
hot under normal ambient condition. Too hot because the design or assembly
is incorrect and the component is actually used outside its maximum
temperature rating...
The best way to find which component is faulty, is to use a slim tube and
spray directly on each component, making sure not to freeze the adjacent
one.
The component that will show the most effect on the fonctionnality is
likely to be the one you should look at.
Hope this helps,
Jean-Luc Lehmann
We recently received a prototype batch of 4 boards and experienced 4 for 4
failing test. Our techs sprayed down certain chips with Freeze Spray and
the board began working properly, at least for a short period of time. I
have checked prior tech net postings and have found fantastic responses as
to why Freeze Spray can damage a the IC or board, but can anyone explain
why
they would begin functioning properly. Being a rookie component engineer I
can fully understand the issues related to freeze spray, but out techs and
design engineers are just going to point the finger since their units work
when sprayed. To further complicate the matter the chips that are being
sprayed are not all the same manufacturer and I can easily rule out a
component failure. Our senior engineer thinks that it may be timing
related
since the main circuit being froze is the Altera PLD (20K400E) and related
circuitry.
Can anyone defend the use of Freeze Spray?
Can anyone present a logical failure mechanism?
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
The best Freeze Spray argument to date was Werner Engelmaier's:
http://jefry.ipc.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9907&L=TechNet&D=0&m=23823&P=55370
However this points to failure after spray not the opposite.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:54:47 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Eric Christison <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Eric Christison <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: STMicroelectronics
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------1337A3605A549E6BFCEFA444"
--------------1337A3605A549E6BFCEFA444
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sounds to me like a marginal design.
The devices heat up and some property eg frequency, capacitance starts to drift. You freeze it and the
parameter moves the other way and comes back into spec. The components slowly warm up again and the
board ceases to function.
Find out what's temperature dependent on those components and therein lies your answer.
Regards,
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> This is a tool only.
>
> The non-function should be diagnosable to more orders of magnitude of
> accuracy than you are stating. if it is timing only.
>
> If the freeze spray trick is repeatable, a competent design engineer should
> be able to give you more informational symptoms than just "it goes now".
> That's how you'll find your answers using this tool.
>
> RL
>
> RL
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Carlile" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:11 AM
> Subject: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
>
> > We recently received a prototype batch of 4 boards and experienced 4 for 4
> > failing test. Our techs sprayed down certain chips with Freeze Spray and
> > the board began working properly, at least for a short period of time. I
> > have checked prior tech net postings and have found fantastic responses as
> > to why Freeze Spray can damage a the IC or board, but can anyone explain
> why
> > they would begin functioning properly. Being a rookie component engineer
> I
> > can fully understand the issues related to freeze spray, but out techs and
> > design engineers are just going to point the finger since their units work
> > when sprayed. To further complicate the matter the chips that are being
> > sprayed are not all the same manufacturer and I can easily rule out a
> > component failure. Our senior engineer thinks that it may be timing
> related
> > since the main circuit being froze is the Altera PLD (20K400E) and related
> > circuitry.
> >
> > Can anyone defend the use of Freeze Spray?
> >
> > Can anyone present a logical failure mechanism?
> >
> > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
> >
> > The best Freeze Spray argument to date was Werner Engelmaier's:
> >
> http://jefry.ipc.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9907&L=TechNet&D=0&m=23823&P=55370
> >
> > However this points to failure after spray not the opposite.
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Eric Christison
Mechanical Engineer
STMicroelectronics
33 Pinkhill
Edinburgh
EH12 7BF
Tel: (0)131 336 6165
Fax: (0)131 336 6001
--------------1337A3605A549E6BFCEFA444
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Sounds to me like a marginal design.
<p>The devices heat up and some property eg frequency, capacitance starts
to drift. You freeze it and the parameter moves the other way and comes
back into spec. The components slowly warm up again and the board ceases
to function.
<p>Find out what's temperature dependent on those components and therein
lies your answer.
<p>Regards,
<br>
<br>
<p>[log in to unmask] wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>This is a tool only.
<p>The non-function should be diagnosable to more orders of magnitude of
<br>accuracy than you are stating. if it is timing only.
<p>If the freeze spray trick is repeatable, a competent design engineer
should
<br>be able to give you more informational symptoms than just "it goes
now".
<br>That's how you'll find your answers using this tool.
<p>RL
<p>RL
<br>----- Original Message -----
<br>From: "Ken Carlile" <[log in to unmask]>
<br>To: <[log in to unmask]>
<br>Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:11 AM
<br>Subject: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
<p>> We recently received a prototype batch of 4 boards and experienced
4 for 4
<br>> failing test. Our techs sprayed down certain chips with Freeze
Spray and
<br>> the board began working properly, at least for a short period of
time. I
<br>> have checked prior tech net postings and have found fantastic responses
as
<br>> to why Freeze Spray can damage a the IC or board, but can anyone
explain
<br>why
<br>> they would begin functioning properly. Being a rookie component
engineer
<br>I
<br>> can fully understand the issues related to freeze spray, but out
techs and
<br>> design engineers are just going to point the finger since their units
work
<br>> when sprayed. To further complicate the matter the chips that
are being
<br>> sprayed are not all the same manufacturer and I can easily rule out
a
<br>> component failure. Our senior engineer thinks that it may be
timing
<br>related
<br>> since the main circuit being froze is the Altera PLD (20K400E) and
related
<br>> circuitry.
<br>>
<br>> Can anyone defend the use of Freeze Spray?
<br>>
<br>> Can anyone present a logical failure mechanism?
<br>>
<br>> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
<br>>
<br>> The best Freeze Spray argument to date was Werner Engelmaier's:
<br>>
<br><a href="http://jefry.ipc.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9907&L=TechNet&D=0&m=23823&P=55370">http://jefry.ipc.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9907&L=TechNet&D=0&m=23823&P=55370</a>
<br>>
<br>> However this points to failure after spray not the opposite.
<br>>
<br>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>-------
<br>> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
<br>> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in
<br>> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
<br>> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
<br>SET Technet NOMAIL
<br>> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
<br>[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
<br>> Search the archives of previous posts at: <a href="http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archives</a>
<br>> Please visit IPC web site <a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>
for additional
<br>> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
<br>ext.5315
<br>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>-------
<br>>
<p>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
<br>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in
<br>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
<br>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
<br>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet Digest
<br>Search the archives of previous posts at: <a href="http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archives</a>
<br>Please visit IPC web site <a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>
for additional
<br>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
<br>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</blockquote>
<p>--
<br>Eric Christison
<br>Mechanical Engineer
<br>STMicroelectronics
<br>33 Pinkhill
<br>Edinburgh
<br>EH12 7BF
<p>Tel: (0)131 336 6165
<br>Fax: (0)131 336 6001
<br> </html>
--------------1337A3605A549E6BFCEFA444--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:06:29 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bar Code Standards
X-To: "Randy Bock Sr." <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
For background look at: "The Bar Code Book" Roger C. Palmer, Helmers
Publishing, 4e, 2001 [0911261133] amazon.com, SMTA, publisher, etc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Bock Sr." <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TN] Bar Code Standards
> We use bar codes on our boards and have allot of trouble with defining
some
> sort of specification for it. Info will help, thanks..
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jack Bryant <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 8:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [TN] Bar Code Standards
>
>
> > David,
> >
> > Within the general IPC guideline and generally speaking, "human
readable"
> > and "barcode", assembly no., date code, unique serial no. and CM
> identifier
> > will usually suffice the basic needs in a small footprint. Having worked
> for
> > a CM designing barcode labels for assembly processes, customer products,
> and
> > internal procedures the labels are personal to each customer with
creative
> > ways of building intelligence into the limited barcode encrypted data.
> Don't
> > know of a standard barcode format either. Some of the common barcodes
I've
> > seen would be the UPC code with check digit commonly seen on consumer
> > products, code 39, and code 128 to name a few, code 128 being the most
> > flexible. However, now with the introduction of the 2D barcode labels
> short
> > stories can be encrypted into barcodes that are only 1" wide and 1" long
> and
> > hold complete paragraphs of data never before considered as part of
> > sub-assembly labeling information. Barcode labels don't have to be just
> > black and white lines anymore.
> >
> > AJB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bernard, David" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 4:54 AM
> > Subject: [TN] Bar Code Standards
> >
> >
> > > Dear Technetters,
> > >
> > > Can anybody tell me if there are any recommended standards for the
> > > suggested data content within bar codes used on boards?
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > David Bernard
> > >
> > > Dage Holdings Plc
> > > Rabans Lane
> > > Aylesbury
> > > Buckinghamshire
> > > HP19 8RG
> > > United Kingdom
> > >
> > > Tel: 01296 317860 - Direct
> > > Tel: 01296 317800
> > > Fax: 01296 435408
> > > E: [log in to unmask]
> > > W: www.dage-group.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > intY (www.inty.com) has automatically scanned this email using Sophos
> > Anti-Virus
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
> in
> > > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]:
> > SET Technet NOMAIL
> > > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> > > Search the archives of previous posts at:
> http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> > > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
> additional
> > > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700
> > ext.5315
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> > Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:22:32 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
X-To: Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
As to the cause of your problems, I vote for timing problems, with a close
second guess at system noise caused by impedance mismatch on long control
signal lines.
I'm Carl and I'm a Freeze Spray user . . .
Now that I've got that off my chest, I'd like to say that I seldom wreck
stuff, and can usually find thermal mechanical intermittents and
(particularly) timing problems. Frozen parts seem to have faster transition
edges. A long time ago, I was able to make our 4 MHz Z-80 processor system
work at 7.8 MHz by freezing the processor, EPROM, and RAM chips (with a
variable oscillator for testing). Recently, I've found that I could fix (or
cause to fail) a new design by squirting the Altera (EPLD) or processor.
The culprit was "timing" and a poorly designed (overloaded) set of control
and bus lines. The difference in timing between the Altera latching in the
correct and incorrect data was seen to be about 1/2 nano-second. By
selective heating (and/or cooling) of the various chips, I could "adjust"
the timing to make the device work or fail. Of course, we had to fix the
timing problem, but my first line of discovery is (often) Freeze Spray.
When I've run out of the stuff, I grab the "Dust-Off" can and run it in
"inverted" mode to get the Freeze Spray effect.
p.s. After reading items in this forum about BGAs and circuit cooler, I've
vowed to never squirt the BGA packages. There is waaaaaaay too much chance
of wrecking something there, since there are no leads to absorb the flex
caused by differential thermal expansions.
Carl Van Wormer
Cipher Systems
1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010
Beaverton, OR 97006
Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Carlile [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 9:12 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
We recently received a prototype batch of 4 boards and experienced 4 for 4
failing test. Our techs sprayed down certain chips with Freeze Spray and
the board began working properly, at least for a short period of time. I
have checked prior tech net postings and have found fantastic responses as
to why Freeze Spray can damage a the IC or board, but can anyone explain why
they would begin functioning properly. Being a rookie component engineer I
can fully understand the issues related to freeze spray, but out techs and
design engineers are just going to point the finger since their units work
when sprayed. To further complicate the matter the chips that are being
sprayed are not all the same manufacturer and I can easily rule out a
component failure. Our senior engineer thinks that it may be timing related
since the main circuit being froze is the Altera PLD (20K400E) and related
circuitry.
Can anyone defend the use of Freeze Spray?
Can anyone present a logical failure mechanism?
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
The best Freeze Spray argument to date was Werner Engelmaier's:
http://jefry.ipc.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9907&L=TechNet&D=0&m=23823&P=55370
However this points to failure after spray not the opposite.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:31:51 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Charles Caswell <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Charles Caswell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microscopes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This has been mentioned before but the Intel microscope for about $60 =
works. Just need a computer with USB. I haven't used it here at work but =
I have tried it at home. Magnification may be too high, or feild of view =
limited though. Depends on what you want.
Charles Caswell
Process Lead, PCB
Frontier Electronic Systems
-----Original Message-----
From: Torres, Roberto [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Microscopes
Hi All;
Does anyone know an inexpensive why to adapt a microscope to take
digital pictures of parts of assemblies PCB's.
Regards
Bob Torres
-----Original Message-----
From: McMullen, Kerry [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] BGA Microscopes
Hi Al,
Try www.minimicrostencil.com They have a mini-mirror BGA inspection =
tool.
Works pretty good with a scope. Can look at the first row of balls all
around the BGA. We use it for incoming inspection.
Kerry
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:28 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] BGA Microscopes
Hello Technetters,
I'm familiar with the ERSA Scope.
Any experience on the ERSA or recommendations on other similar =
equipment.
I currently have X-ray capability, but would like to peek under the BGA =
and
see those balls.
Al
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text =
in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: =
SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: =
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for =
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
-----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text =
in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: =
SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: =
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for =
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
-----
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text =
in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: =
SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to =
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: =
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for =
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 =
ext.5315
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:31:12 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Contract House Placement Costs
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Hello everybody. We were starting to look at sending out some contract
work, and we were wondering if any of you guys using CMs had a ballpark
figure on cost per placement and / or cost per joint on surface mount
assemblies. I would just like to make sure that a place we are looking at
is not particularly over the top.
Thanks.
Ed
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:33:21 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TEMP EXTREME
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Technet:
I think I may have asked this question a while ago (or something similar)
but couldn't find anything in the archives. I have a surface mount assembly
that gets installed into a top assembly housing, with covers. The test guys
want to subject this assembly to 125 degrees C for 112 hours. Assuming that
all of the components are rated for this temperature, is there anything else
that says this isn't a good idea? I'm thinking about the solder joints,
maybe decreased reliability due to excessive grain growth? How about
acrylic conformal coating? The PWB is polyimide, so this shouldn't be an
issue. Anything else?
Thanks again...
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:25:44 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Manual printing tables...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_150.cd7db49.29f82878_boundary"
--part1_150.cd7db49.29f82878_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi All,
I'm looking for an inexpensive manual printing table to use for the one'sies
two'sies that we do here, and as a last ditch back-up when our DEK goes down.
I used one called a Palomar printing table when I was out in California, and
it did a really good job.
Could use any sized frame, nice precise hinge, had X/Y micrometers to fine
tune registration... could do 20-mil pitch all day long.
Are there any others out there?
-Steve Gregory-
--part1_150.cd7db49.29f82878_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi All,
<BR>
<BR>I'm looking for an inexpensive manual printing table to use for the one'sies two'sies that we do here, and as a last ditch back-up when our DEK goes down. I used one called a Palomar printing table when I was out in California, and it did a really good job.
<BR>
<BR>Could use any sized frame, nice precise hinge, had X/Y micrometers to fine tune registration... could do 20-mil pitch all day long.
<BR>
<BR>Are there any others out there?
<BR>
<BR>-Steve Gregory-</FONT></HTML>
--part1_150.cd7db49.29f82878_boundary--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:32:08 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
bonilla_d <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: bonilla_d <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Contract House Placement Costs
X-To: "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Ed:
>From my point of view, it is very hard to define a cost per placement based
on a ball park figure. We are a contract Manufacturer in Puerto Rico with
two other sites in Ireland and Dominican Republic. It means that direct
labor and indirect labor costs and tax exemptions are different for each
site.
David Bonilla
Sr. Process Engineer
Manufacturing Technology Services
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Edward S. Wheeler
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:31 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Contract House Placement Costs
Hello everybody. We were starting to look at sending out some contract
work, and we were wondering if any of you guys using CMs had a ballpark
figure on cost per placement and / or cost per joint on surface mount
assemblies. I would just like to make sure that a place we are looking at
is not particularly over the top.
Thanks.
Ed
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:12:36 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Contract House Placement Costs
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_152.cdb3892.29f83374_boundary"
--part1_152.cdb3892.29f83374_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Ed,
Not trying to avoid the question, but it is pretty tough to come up with a
cost per placement, or cost per solder joint figure....it all depends on the
assembly.
For instance we build a board here that has maybe 100 parts on it that costs
10 times as much to build as another board that has 900 parts on it...
The difference between the two is that the 100 part board requires that we
cut, form, and pre-tin all the leaded SMT devices (including two 352-pin
CQFP's), print paste, dispense adhesive so as to cover 70% of the area
beneath each part, place the parts and reflow, then bond the whole thing to
an aluminum heatsink. While the 900 part assembly is entirely auto-inserted
and then wave soldered...that's it.
Most places will bid the work depending on standard times it takes to do each
operation, or as close to the actuals as possible. We aren't afraid to share
those times with a customer if they think the price is too high. We'll add a
little more when faced with very complex assemblies (many BGA's, etc.) to
cover the risks one experiences when building these types of assemblies.
The other factor is the quantities of completed asemblies that you want. It
takes the same amount of time to set-up a surface mount line whether you
build 1 or a 1000,
so if you build in low quantities, the price is going to higher than larger
quantities.
But there really isn't a pat answer as to pricing by component count, or
solder joint count...
-Steve Gregory-
> Hello everybody. We were starting to look at sending out some contract
> work, and we were wondering if any of you guys using CMs had a ballpark
> figure on cost per placement and / or cost per joint on surface mount
> assemblies. I would just like to make sure that a place we are looking at
> is not particularly over the top.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ed
>
--part1_152.cdb3892.29f83374_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Ed,
<BR>
<BR>Not trying to avoid the question, but it is pretty tough to come up with a cost per placement, or cost per solder joint figure....it all depends on the assembly.
<BR>
<BR>For instance we build a board here that has maybe 100 parts on it that costs 10 times as much to build as another board that has 900 parts on it...
<BR>
<BR>The difference between the two is that the 100 part board requires that we cut, form, and pre-tin all the leaded SMT devices (including two 352-pin CQFP's), print paste, dispense adhesive so as to cover 70% of the area beneath each part, place the parts and reflow, then bond the whole thing to an aluminum heatsink. While the 900 part assembly is entirely auto-inserted and then wave soldered...that's it.
<BR>
<BR>Most places will bid the work depending on standard times it takes to do each operation, or as close to the actuals as possible. We aren't afraid to share those times with a customer if they think the price is too high. We'll add a little more when faced with very complex assemblies (many BGA's, etc.) to cover the risks one experiences when building these types of assemblies.
<BR>
<BR>The other factor is the quantities of completed asemblies that you want. It takes the same amount of time to set-up a surface mount line whether you build 1 or a 1000,
<BR>so if you build in low quantities, the price is going to higher than larger quantities.
<BR>
<BR>But there really isn't a pat answer as to pricing by component count, or solder joint count...
<BR>
<BR>-Steve Gregory-
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hello everybody. We were starting to look at sending out some contract
<BR>work, and we were wondering if any of you guys using CMs had a ballpark
<BR>figure on cost per placement and / or cost per joint on surface mount
<BR>assemblies. I would just like to make sure that a place we are looking at
<BR>is not particularly over the top.
<BR>
<BR>Thanks.
<BR>
<BR>Ed
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT></HTML>
--part1_152.cdb3892.29f83374_boundary--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:25:04 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Randy Bock Sr." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Randy Bock Sr." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Bar Code Standards
X-To: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thank you..
----- Original Message -----
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] Bar Code Standards
> For background look at: "The Bar Code Book" Roger C. Palmer, Helmers
> Publishing, 4e, 2001 [0911261133] amazon.com, SMTA, publisher, etc
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Randy Bock Sr." <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [TN] Bar Code Standards
>
>
> > We use bar codes on our boards and have allot of trouble with defining
> some
> > sort of specification for it. Info will help, thanks..
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Jack Bryant <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 8:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TN] Bar Code Standards
> >
> >
> > > David,
> > >
> > > Within the general IPC guideline and generally speaking, "human
> readable"
> > > and "barcode", assembly no., date code, unique serial no. and CM
> > identifier
> > > will usually suffice the basic needs in a small footprint. Having
worked
> > for
> > > a CM designing barcode labels for assembly processes, customer
products,
> > and
> > > internal procedures the labels are personal to each customer with
> creative
> > > ways of building intelligence into the limited barcode encrypted data.
> > Don't
> > > know of a standard barcode format either. Some of the common barcodes
> I've
> > > seen would be the UPC code with check digit commonly seen on consumer
> > > products, code 39, and code 128 to name a few, code 128 being the most
> > > flexible. However, now with the introduction of the 2D barcode labels
> > short
> > > stories can be encrypted into barcodes that are only 1" wide and 1"
long
> > and
> > > hold complete paragraphs of data never before considered as part of
> > > sub-assembly labeling information. Barcode labels don't have to be
just
> > > black and white lines anymore.
> > >
> > > AJB
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bernard, David" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 4:54 AM
> > > Subject: [TN] Bar Code Standards
> > >
> > >
> > > > Dear Technetters,
> > > >
> > > > Can anybody tell me if there are any recommended standards for the
> > > > suggested data content within bar codes used on boards?
> > > >
> > > > Thank you,
> > > >
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > > David Bernard
> > > >
> > > > Dage Holdings Plc
> > > > Rabans Lane
> > > > Aylesbury
> > > > Buckinghamshire
> > > > HP19 8RG
> > > > United Kingdom
> > > >
> > > > Tel: 01296 317860 - Direct
> > > > Tel: 01296 317800
> > > > Fax: 01296 435408
> > > > E: [log in to unmask]
> > > > W: www.dage-group.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > intY (www.inty.com) has automatically scanned this email using
Sophos
> > > Anti-Virus
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > -------
> > > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text
> > in
> > > > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > > > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]:
> > > SET Technet NOMAIL
> > > > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> > > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> > > > Search the archives of previous posts at:
> > http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> > > > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
> > additional
> > > > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
> > > ext.5315
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > -------
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
> in
> > > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]:
> > SET Technet NOMAIL
> > > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> > > Search the archives of previous posts at:
> http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> > > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
> additional
> > > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700
> > ext.5315
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> > Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:33:48 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: TEMP EXTREME
X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------F67343D8763C540629CB3923"
--------------F67343D8763C540629CB3923
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
James,
How about acrylic conformal coating?
You are so far above the Tg of acrylics that the coating can "flow", melt, evaporate, or all the above!
(Not to mention letting contaminants reach the surface!)
David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
"Marsico, James" wrote:
> Hello Technet:
>
> I think I may have asked this question a while ago (or something similar)
> but couldn't find anything in the archives. I have a surface mount assembly
> that gets installed into a top assembly housing, with covers. The test guys
> want to subject this assembly to 125 degrees C for 112 hours. Assuming that
> all of the components are rated for this temperature, is there anything else
> that says this isn't a good idea? I'm thinking about the solder joints,
> maybe decreased reliability due to excessive grain growth? How about
> acrylic conformal coating? The PWB is polyimide, so this shouldn't be an
> issue. Anything else?
>
> Thanks again...
>
> Jim Marsico
> Senior Engineer
> Production Engineering
> EDO Electronics Systems Group
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> 631-595-5879
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------F67343D8763C540629CB3923
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
James,
<p><i>How about acrylic conformal coating?</i>
<br>You are so far above the Tg of acrylics that the coating can "flow",
melt, evaporate, or all the above!
<br>(Not to mention letting contaminants reach the surface!)
<p>David A. Douthit
<br>Manager
<br>LoCan LLC
<br>
<p>"Marsico, James" wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Hello Technet:
<p>I think I may have asked this question a while ago (or something similar)
<br>but couldn't find anything in the archives. I have a surface
mount assembly
<br>that gets installed into a top assembly housing, with covers.
The test guys
<br>want to subject this assembly to 125 degrees C for 112 hours.
Assuming that
<br>all of the components are rated for this temperature, is there anything
else
<br>that says this isn't a good idea? I'm thinking about the solder
joints,
<br>maybe decreased reliability due to excessive grain growth? How
about
<br>acrylic conformal coating? The PWB is polyimide, so this shouldn't
be an
<br>issue. Anything else?
<p>Thanks again...
<p>Jim Marsico
<br>Senior Engineer
<br>Production Engineering
<br>EDO Electronics Systems Group
<br>[log in to unmask] <<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>>
<br>631-595-5879
<p>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
<br>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in
<br>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
<br>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
<br>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet Digest
<br>Search the archives of previous posts at: <a href="http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archives</a>
<br>Please visit IPC web site <a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>
for additional
<br>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
<br>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</blockquote>
</html>
--------------F67343D8763C540629CB3923--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:26:49 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Forselles, Tom" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Forselles, Tom" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Insulation in the crimp contact area
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
I am trying to find an IPC reference standard for a situatuation I believe
is a problem. I have some 24AWG wires coming from a cooling fan assembly
where the wires are terminated with crimped male contacts that slip into a
plastic housing for a typical pin-and-socket arrangement. The outer part of
the crimp looks good where the wire is nicely crimped around the wire
insulation, but the inner part of the crimp appears marginal in that there
is consistently at least some insulation running into the contact area. The
result is a crimp that does not appear to be fully formed around the actual
conductor. Closest IPC reference I found was 610C, 4.2.3.2 for mechanical
assembly, hardware mounting, threaded fasteners - where there is to be "no
insulation in the contact area". Could anyone give me a more specific
standard reference or perhaps educate me if this is an actual problem?
Responses to the list or private e-mail is greatly appreciated. Thank you
in advance.
Tom Forselles
[log in to unmask]
Phone: 805.783.6048
FAX: 805-541-5088
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:38:29 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Torres, Roberto" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Torres, Roberto" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microscopes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
All;
Thanks for the suggestions on Microscopes and Digital photographs.
The suggestion from Charles was of particular interest. Seems like
most use the method we use here now put the digital camera to the
lens of the microscope and snap away, it is just with this method
we tend to get a lot of telescope images, that is round and black
around the edges.
Again thanks for all the input.
Regards
Bob Torres
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:04:42 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Insulation in the crimp contact area
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Tom,
Try IPC-620 Acceptability for Cables/Wire Harnesses.
Rick Howieson
Delta Group Electronics, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: Forselles, Tom [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:27 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Insulation in the crimp contact area
I am trying to find an IPC reference standard for a situatuation I believe
is a problem. I have some 24AWG wires coming from a cooling fan assembly
where the wires are terminated with crimped male contacts that slip into a
plastic housing for a typical pin-and-socket arrangement. The outer part of
the crimp looks good where the wire is nicely crimped around the wire
insulation, but the inner part of the crimp appears marginal in that there
is consistently at least some insulation running into the contact area. The
result is a crimp that does not appear to be fully formed around the actual
conductor. Closest IPC reference I found was 610C, 4.2.3.2 for mechanical
assembly, hardware mounting, threaded fasteners - where there is to be "no
insulation in the contact area". Could anyone give me a more specific
standard reference or perhaps educate me if this is an actual problem?
Responses to the list or private e-mail is greatly appreciated. Thank you
in advance.
Tom Forselles
[log in to unmask]
Phone: 805.783.6048
FAX: 805-541-5088
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:15:52 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Manual printing tables...
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="Boundary_(ID_8cSlTYVq61KLkyy00Wk8sw)"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_8cSlTYVq61KLkyy00Wk8sw)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Good Morning Steve,
Elite (714) 895-1911 has been around for years. The best bang for your buck in my opinion. With minimal tooling you can change over the unit in about 5 minutes. They even modified the platen for my print nest at no extra charge. The only thing I don't like is the squeegee that ships with the product, I went to Transition Automation (800) 648-3338 and got a steel squeegee.
If you want a semi auto unit (requires house air) look for a used De-Hart. There isn't much that can go wrong with these units so they are a pretty safe buy used.
Hope this helps,
Dan
--Boundary_(ID_8cSlTYVq61KLkyy00Wk8sw)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Good Morning Steve,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Elite (714) 895-1911 has been around for years. The
best bang for your buck in my opinion. With minimal tooling you can change over
the unit in about 5 minutes. They even modified the platen for my print nest at
no extra charge. The only thing I don't like is the squeegee that ships with the
product, I went to Transition Automation (800) 648-3338 and got a steel
squeegee. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If you want a semi auto unit (requires house air)
look for a used De-Hart. There isn't much that can go wrong with these units so
they are a pretty safe buy used.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hope this helps,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dan</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_8cSlTYVq61KLkyy00Wk8sw)--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:31:20 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Manual printing tables...
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hey Steve,
Check out this link: http://www.eliteprinters.com/
<http://www.eliteprinters.com/>
I have a model 4500 and does as good a job as one can expect for manual
printing. My only problem is getting the folks to apply 1lb of force for
each inch of squeegee length!! Good luck.
Steve Sauer
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
I'm looking for an inexpensive manual printing table to use for the
one'sies two'sies that we do here, and as a last ditch back-up when our DEK
goes down.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:37:59 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: TEMP EXTREME
X-To: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1EBBF.296DFF00"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1EBBF.296DFF00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
David
Contrary to your view, we have a water based acrylic coating that has
been tested successfully to 200 DegC - that's 392 Deg F.
As to the original question, Jim, I am not sure that the coating will
achieve what you might be looking for, because the coating is not a very
good thermal insulator. So your components will need to be able to work
at the elevated temp - and the coating, such as the one I mention, will
certainly help.
Regards Graham Naisbitt
[log in to unmask]
Concoat ANNOUNCE their acquisition of the former Multicore SPCID
business.
MUST II Solderability Testing Systems -
CM Cleanliness Testing Systems -
Auto-SIR Reliability Testing Systems -
SoldaPro & NEW SoldaPro Wizard Thermal Profilers
For more information please visit our new web site:
www.concoatsystems.com <http://www.concoatsystems.com/>
Concoat Limited
Alasan House, Albany Park
Camberley GU16 7PH - UK
www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk/>
Phone: +44 1276 691100
Fax: +44 1276 691227
Mobile: +44 79 6858 2121
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Douthit
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 17:34
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] TEMP EXTREME
James,
How about acrylic conformal coating?
You are so far above the Tg of acrylics that the coating can "flow",
melt, evaporate, or all the above!
(Not to mention letting contaminants reach the surface!)
David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
"Marsico, James" wrote:
Hello Technet:
I think I may have asked this question a while ago (or something
similar)
but couldn't find anything in the archives. I have a surface mount
assembly
that gets installed into a top assembly housing, with covers. The test
guys
want to subject this assembly to 125 degrees C for 112 hours. Assuming
that
all of the components are rated for this temperature, is there anything
else
that says this isn't a good idea? I'm thinking about the solder joints,
maybe decreased reliability due to excessive grain growth? How about
acrylic conformal coating? The PWB is polyimide, so this shouldn't be
an
issue. Anything else?
Thanks again...
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1EBBF.296DFF00
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D630153417-24042002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><STRONG>David</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D630153417-24042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D630153417-24042002><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Contrary to your view, we have a water based acrylic coating =
that has=20
been tested successfully to 200 DegC - that's 392 Deg=20
F.</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D630153417-24042002>As to the original question, Jim, I am not =
sure that=20
the coating will achieve what you might be looking for, because the =
coating is=20
not a very good thermal insulator. So your components will need to be =
able to=20
work at the elevated temp - and the coating, such as the one I mention, =
will=20
certainly help.</SPAN></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D630153417-24042002></SPAN></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Regards Graham=20
Naisbitt</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
uk</A></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Concoat ANNOUNCE their =
acquisition of the=20
former Multicore SPCID business.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>MUST II Solderability Testing =
Systems -=20
</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>CM Cleanliness Testing Systems =
-=20
</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Auto-SIR Reliability Testing =
Systems -=20
</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>SoldaPro & NEW SoldaPro =
Wizard Thermal=20
Profilers</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For more information please =
visit our new=20
web site: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.concoatsystems.com/">www.concoatsystems.com</A></FONT>=
</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Concoat =
Limited</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Alasan House, Albany=20
Park</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Camberley GU16 7PH -=20
UK</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG><A=20
href=3D"http://www.concoat.co.uk/">www.concoat.co.uk</A></STRONG></FONT><=
/DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Phone: +44 1276=20
691100</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Fax: +44 1276 =
691227</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Mobile: +44 79 6858=20
2121</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <B>On Behalf Of </B>David =
Douthit<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 17:34<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] TEMP=20
EXTREME<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>James,=20
<P><I>How about acrylic conformal coating?</I> <BR>You are so far =
above the Tg=20
of acrylics that the coating can "flow", melt, evaporate, or all the =
above!=20
<BR>(Not to mention letting contaminants reach the surface!)=20
<P>David A. Douthit <BR>Manager <BR>LoCan LLC <BR> =20
<P>"Marsico, James" wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">Hello Technet:=20
<P>I think I may have asked this question a while ago (or something =
similar)=20
<BR>but couldn't find anything in the archives. I have a =
surface mount=20
assembly <BR>that gets installed into a top assembly housing, with=20
covers. The test guys <BR>want to subject this assembly to 125 =
degrees=20
C for 112 hours. Assuming that <BR>all of the components are =
rated for=20
this temperature, is there anything else <BR>that says this isn't a =
good=20
idea? I'm thinking about the solder joints, <BR>maybe =
decreased=20
reliability due to excessive grain growth? How about =
<BR>acrylic=20
conformal coating? The PWB is polyimide, so this shouldn't be =
an=20
<BR>issue. Anything else?=20
<P>Thanks again...=20
<P>Jim Marsico <BR>Senior Engineer <BR>Production Engineering =
<BR>EDO=20
Electronics Systems Group <BR>[log in to unmask] <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>&=
gt;=20
<BR>631-595-5879=20
=
<P>----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------=20
<BR>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using =
LISTSERV 1.8d=20
<BR>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with =
following text=20
in <BR>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet <BR>To =
temporarily=20
halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET =
Technet NOMAIL=20
<BR>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to=20
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest <BR>Search the archives of =
previous=20
posts at: <A=20
=
href=3D"http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archive=
s</A>=20
<BR>Please visit IPC web site <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.=
htm</A>=20
for additional <BR>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at =
[log in to unmask]
or 847-509-9700 ext.5315=20
=
<BR>---------------------------------------------------------------------=
------------</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1EBBF.296DFF00--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:04:37 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Insulation in the crimp contact area
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tom,
This can be found in the new IPC standard IPC/WHMA-A-620, section 5.1.2.
Hope this helps.
Phil Nutting
-----Original Message-----
From: Forselles, Tom [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:27 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Insulation in the crimp contact area
I am trying to find an IPC reference standard for a situatuation I =
believe
is a problem. I have some 24AWG wires coming from a cooling fan =
assembly
where the wires are terminated with crimped male contacts that slip into =
a
plastic housing for a typical pin-and-socket arrangement. The outer =
part of
the crimp looks good where the wire is nicely crimped around the wire
insulation, but the inner part of the crimp appears marginal in that =
there
is consistently at least some insulation running into the contact area. =
The
result is a crimp that does not appear to be fully formed around the =
actual
conductor. Closest IPC reference I found was 610C, 4.2.3.2 for =
mechanical
assembly, hardware mounting, threaded fasteners - where there is to be =
"no
insulation in the contact area". Could anyone give me a more specific
standard reference or perhaps educate me if this is an actual problem?
Responses to the list or private e-mail is greatly appreciated. Thank =
you
in advance.
Tom Forselles
[log in to unmask]
Phone: 805.783.6048
FAX: 805-541-5088
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text =
in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: =
SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to =
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: =
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for =
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 =
ext.5315
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:15:48 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Insulation in the crimp contact area
X-To: "Forselles, Tom" <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
You have described a defect condition from IPC-A-620 the new wire and cable
harness acceptability standard.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Forselles, Tom
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:27 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Insulation in the crimp contact area
>
>
> I am trying to find an IPC reference standard for a situatuation I believe
> is a problem. I have some 24AWG wires coming from a cooling fan assembly
> where the wires are terminated with crimped male contacts that slip into a
> plastic housing for a typical pin-and-socket arrangement. The
> outer part of
> the crimp looks good where the wire is nicely crimped around the wire
> insulation, but the inner part of the crimp appears marginal in that there
> is consistently at least some insulation running into the contact
> area. The
> result is a crimp that does not appear to be fully formed around
> the actual
> conductor. Closest IPC reference I found was 610C, 4.2.3.2 for mechanical
> assembly, hardware mounting, threaded fasteners - where there is to be "no
> insulation in the contact area". Could anyone give me a more specific
> standard reference or perhaps educate me if this is an actual problem?
> Responses to the list or private e-mail is greatly appreciated. Thank you
> in advance.
> Tom Forselles
> [log in to unmask]
> Phone: 805.783.6048
> FAX: 805-541-5088
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:29:19 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
John Foster <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: John Foster <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Via Plug
X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks Jim
Did you do this extra plating selectively. Or did you just overplate the
whole PCB. Someone else mentioned the dupont product we are trying to
get our vendor to look at it.
Thanks
John Foster
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Marsico, James
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:10 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Via Plug
John, We've looked into the sand thing a while ago, and found that just by
increasing the copper plating in the hole to 2 mils will give you far better
thermal performance than any thermally conductive epoxy for hole fill.
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: John Foster [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 3:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Via Plug
Hello, I am new to this listserver. I must say that it is very
informative. I wish I had known of it long ago.
I have a question about via plugging. Right now
our board vendor is doing our via plugs with
I guess with a standard epoxy. We are trying
to find a solution that would give us a much
better thermal performance.
We are looking at silver epoxy and this
material from Dupont. Does anyone know of
some material that would give us a really good
thermal performance. We are in a commercial
environment. So the material does not have to
meet industrial specs.
Any input on this matter would be greatly '
appreciated.
Thank You
John Foster
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:44:45 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Insulation in the crimp contact area
X-To: "Forselles, Tom" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Tom,
IPC/WHMA-A-620 Requirements & Acceptance for Cable & Wire Harness Assemblies
is what you're looking for. This document was just released in January
2002.
To answer your question, there should be no insulation in the
wire-to-terminal crimp. Potential causes are improper strip, insufficient
strip length, and misfed wire into terminal. One other suggestion would be
to measure the crimp height per the terminal manufacturer's specification.
Steve Sauer
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:03:50 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Contract House Placement Costs
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Ed, You'll never get any of these CM guys to give you a direct answer
(chuckle). I suggest you go out to a few CMs for quotes and see how they
very. We've found, on occasion, the variation to be quite large.
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: Edward S. Wheeler [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:31 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Contract House Placement Costs
Hello everybody. We were starting to look at sending out some
contract
work, and we were wondering if any of you guys using CMs had a
ballpark
figure on cost per placement and / or cost per joint on surface
mount
assemblies. I would just like to make sure that a place we are
looking at
is not particularly over the top.
Thanks.
Ed
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:15:28 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Manual printing tables...
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1EBA2.DE29DF80"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1EBA2.DE29DF80
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mancorp does a good job in that area. They have a nice little Swiss made
tool by Essemtec.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 11:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Manual printing tables...
Hi All,
I'm looking for an inexpensive manual printing table to use for the
one'sies two'sies that we do here, and as a last ditch back-up when our DEK
goes down. I used one called a Palomar printing table when I was out in
California, and it did a really good job.
Could use any sized frame, nice precise hinge, had X/Y micrometers to fine
tune registration... could do 20-mil pitch all day long.
Are there any others out there?
-Steve Gregory-
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1EBA2.DE29DF80
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D717001319-24042002>Mancorp does a good job in that area. They =
have a nice=20
little Swiss made tool by Essemtec. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 11:26 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Manual printing=20
tables...<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2>Hi All,=20
<BR><BR>I'm looking for an inexpensive manual printing table to use =
for the=20
one'sies two'sies that we do here, and as a last ditch back-up when =
our DEK=20
goes down. I used one called a Palomar printing table when I was out =
in=20
California, and it did a really good job. <BR><BR>Could use any sized =
frame,=20
nice precise hinge, had X/Y micrometers to fine tune registration... =
could do=20
20-mil pitch all day long. <BR><BR>Are there any others out there?=20
<BR><BR>-Steve Gregory-</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1EBA2.DE29DF80--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:09:25 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Insulation in the crimp contact area
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_83DE7501.2E4F229C"
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=_83DE7501.2E4F229C
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
If your like me and still waiting for a copy of the new standard you can =
try the molex website. I have used this information for years when I have =
done cable training. It is a really good resource for good crimps and how =
to recognize them. Go to this address and then go to that bottom of that =
page and you will see good crimps and how to recognize them. =20
http://www.molex.com/cgi-bin/bv/molex/home_init.jsp?x=3Dy&BV_SessionID=3D@@=
@@0833665099.1019679163@@@@&BV_EngineID=3Ddadcdlgdgkdibekgchecfclk.0&langPr=
ef=3Denglish&sNav=3D/cgi-bin/bv/molex/nav/mxleft_nav.jsp%3FBV_SessionId%3D@=
@@@0833665099.1019679163@@@@%26BV_EngineId%3Ddadcdlgdgkdibekgchecfclk.0%26B=
V_SessionID%3D@@@@0833665099.1019679163@@@@%26BV_EngineID%3Ddadcdlgdgkdibek=
gchecfclk.0&mCnt=3Dhttp%3A//www.newproduct.molex.com/products.asp%3FBV_Sess=
ionId%3D@@@@0833665099.1019679163@@@@%26BV_EngineId%3Ddadcdlgdgkdibekgchecf=
clk.0
--=_83DE7501.2E4F229C
Content-Type: TEXT/HTML
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm"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--=_83DE7501.2E4F229C--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:53:57 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1EBD2.272992A0"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EBD2.272992A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello to All,
We have a circuit that requires solder under it because in order to have a
good thermal dissipation.
The circuit is a QFP48. When assembled in the line, the stencil has
apertures in the body of the component in order to apply solder.
We have tried to manually apply the solder with an iron tip, but after
cross-sectioning the repair component we have found that
sometimes the solder is not in contact with the component.
What could be the appropriate procedure to repair this component?
Regards,
Alejandro Becerra
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EBD2.272992A0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hello to All,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">We have a circuit that requires solder =
under it because in order to have a good thermal dissipation.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The circuit is a QFP48. When =
assembled in the line, the stencil has apertures in the body of the =
component in order to apply solder.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">We have tried to manually apply the =
solder with an iron tip, but after cross-sectioning the repair =
component we have found that </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">sometimes the solder is not in contact =
with the component.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">What could be the appropriate =
procedure to repair this component?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Regards,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Alejandro Becerra</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EBD2.272992A0--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:05:35 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Contract House Placement Costs
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_B4E94239.187914AA"
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=_B4E94239.187914AA
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
Steve was right the design and the complexity does play a large part of =
the picture but so does the CM's own capabilities, equipment used, etc. =
will make the variations between house to house enormous. Not to mention =
the management philosophy, labor rates per hour, material purchasing power =
etc. =20
For the CM's you are considering ask what equipment is used, look into the =
per hour placements and the general machine bells and whistles. If you go =
on a tour look at the amount of product in wip (the more there is the more =
overhead you will generally pay for), look for a CM that isn't afraid to =
let you look at the run time and data. If the CM you choose does a good =
DFM process you will know what the standard run time is and then also the =
added charges due to layout/design issues. Don't get in to any CM who =
won't be open about their process and run time with you. Another technique =
I used a lot when I was in the OEM business was to go to the CM on-site =
for a production approval lot. I watched each process, timed it, and also =
recorded all defects that were found. It can be a small lot but it does =
make a questionable CM very honest. =20
Kathy=20
--=_B4E94239.187914AA
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px">
<DIV>Steve was right the design and the complexity does play a large part of the
picture but so does the CM's own capabilities, equipment used, etc. will
make the variations between house to house enormous. Not to
mention the management philosophy, labor rates per hour, material purchasing
power etc. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>For the CM's you are considering ask what equipment is used, look into the
per hour placements and the general machine bells and whistles. If you go
on a tour look at the amount of product in wip (the more there is the more
overhead you will generally pay for), look for a CM that isn't afraid to let you
look at the run time and data. If the CM you choose does a good DFM
process you will know what the standard run time is and then also the added
charges due to layout/design issues. Don't get in to any CM who won't be
open about their process and run time with you. Another technique I used a
lot when I was in the OEM business was to go to the CM on-site for a production
approval lot. I watched each process, timed it, and also recorded all
defects that were found. It can be a small lot but it does make a
questionable CM very honest. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
--=_B4E94239.187914AA--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:30:34 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
And I would like to point out yet again that most of these materials are
fully fluorinated materials that have incredibly long atmospheric lives and
thus have terribly high global warming potentials. I would recommend using
food grade carbon dioxide instead. You can buy a "gun" to put on the
compressed gas tank to aim the liquid/gas at the component in question.
Sorry I can't remember the name of the company right now, but if you check
the archives under my name for the '96 to '98 time frame you might find it.
And others might chime in to augment my failing memory. ;(
regards,
Bev Christian
Research in Motion.
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl VanWormer [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: April 24, 2002 10:23 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
As to the cause of your problems, I vote for timing problems, with a close
second guess at system noise caused by impedance mismatch on long control
signal lines.
I'm Carl and I'm a Freeze Spray user . . .
Now that I've got that off my chest, I'd like to say that I seldom wreck
stuff, and can usually find thermal mechanical intermittents and
(particularly) timing problems. Frozen parts seem to have faster transition
edges. A long time ago, I was able to make our 4 MHz Z-80 processor system
work at 7.8 MHz by freezing the processor, EPROM, and RAM chips (with a
variable oscillator for testing). Recently, I've found that I could fix (or
cause to fail) a new design by squirting the Altera (EPLD) or processor.
The culprit was "timing" and a poorly designed (overloaded) set of control
and bus lines. The difference in timing between the Altera latching in the
correct and incorrect data was seen to be about 1/2 nano-second. By
selective heating (and/or cooling) of the various chips, I could "adjust"
the timing to make the device work or fail. Of course, we had to fix the
timing problem, but my first line of discovery is (often) Freeze Spray.
When I've run out of the stuff, I grab the "Dust-Off" can and run it in
"inverted" mode to get the Freeze Spray effect.
p.s. After reading items in this forum about BGAs and circuit cooler, I've
vowed to never squirt the BGA packages. There is waaaaaaay too much chance
of wrecking something there, since there are no leads to absorb the flex
caused by differential thermal expansions.
Carl Van Wormer
Cipher Systems
1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010
Beaverton, OR 97006
Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Carlile [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 9:12 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
We recently received a prototype batch of 4 boards and experienced 4 for 4
failing test. Our techs sprayed down certain chips with Freeze Spray and
the board began working properly, at least for a short period of time. I
have checked prior tech net postings and have found fantastic responses as
to why Freeze Spray can damage a the IC or board, but can anyone explain why
they would begin functioning properly. Being a rookie component engineer I
can fully understand the issues related to freeze spray, but out techs and
design engineers are just going to point the finger since their units work
when sprayed. To further complicate the matter the chips that are being
sprayed are not all the same manufacturer and I can easily rule out a
component failure. Our senior engineer thinks that it may be timing related
since the main circuit being froze is the Altera PLD (20K400E) and related
circuitry.
Can anyone defend the use of Freeze Spray?
Can anyone present a logical failure mechanism?
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
The best Freeze Spray argument to date was Werner Engelmaier's:
http://jefry.ipc.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9907&L=TechNet&D=0&m=23823&P=55370
However this points to failure after spray not the opposite.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:44:48 -0700
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Eddie Rocha <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Flip-flop panels
X-To: Jac Kroeker <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Flip flopping multilayer bds can get complicated and is not
recommended. It cannot be done if the layer stack-up is not
symmetrical.
thanks,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:19:39 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dave Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: TEMP EXTREME
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Jim! The solder joint microstructure is going to experience pretty
extensive recrystalization under the 112 hours at 125C soak. I haven't a
clue on what the overall impact will be on solder joint reliability but it
is certain you are losing some of the operation life of the assemblies.
Many Class 3 products withstand 2000 hours of thermal cycling from -55C to
+125C failure free. Those assemblies spend a total of 500 hours at the 125C
extreme (assuming 15 minute dwells). However, there is a difference between
thermal cycling and thermal soaking - is your use environment going to be
more thermal cycle or thermal soak?
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
"Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 04/24/2002 09:33:21
AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond
to "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: [TN] TEMP EXTREME
Hello Technet:
I think I may have asked this question a while ago (or something similar)
but couldn't find anything in the archives. I have a surface mount
assembly
that gets installed into a top assembly housing, with covers. The test
guys
want to subject this assembly to 125 degrees C for 112 hours. Assuming
that
all of the components are rated for this temperature, is there anything
else
that says this isn't a good idea? I'm thinking about the solder joints,
maybe decreased reliability due to excessive grain growth? How about
acrylic conformal coating? The PWB is polyimide, so this shouldn't be an
issue. Anything else?
Thanks again...
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:02:59 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
X-To: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------36EBA99788F6695C947FF15F"
--------------36EBA99788F6695C947FF15F
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bev,
Years ago (about 7) there was a company selling hand held Vortex generators that plugged into 100 psi
shop air.
These little jewels put out -40 degree C air as long as there was 100 psi available. It also had to be
dry nonlubed air.
The company was called EXAir. I don't know if they are still around.
David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
Bev Christian wrote:
> And I would like to point out yet again that most of these materials are
> fully fluorinated materials that have incredibly long atmospheric lives and
> thus have terribly high global warming potentials. I would recommend using
> food grade carbon dioxide instead. You can buy a "gun" to put on the
> compressed gas tank to aim the liquid/gas at the component in question.
> Sorry I can't remember the name of the company right now, but if you check
> the archives under my name for the '96 to '98 time frame you might find it.
> And others might chime in to augment my failing memory. ;(
>
> regards,
> Bev Christian
> Research in Motion.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl VanWormer [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: April 24, 2002 10:23 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
>
> As to the cause of your problems, I vote for timing problems, with a close
> second guess at system noise caused by impedance mismatch on long control
> signal lines.
>
> I'm Carl and I'm a Freeze Spray user . . .
>
> Now that I've got that off my chest, I'd like to say that I seldom wreck
> stuff, and can usually find thermal mechanical intermittents and
> (particularly) timing problems. Frozen parts seem to have faster transition
> edges. A long time ago, I was able to make our 4 MHz Z-80 processor system
> work at 7.8 MHz by freezing the processor, EPROM, and RAM chips (with a
> variable oscillator for testing). Recently, I've found that I could fix (or
> cause to fail) a new design by squirting the Altera (EPLD) or processor.
> The culprit was "timing" and a poorly designed (overloaded) set of control
> and bus lines. The difference in timing between the Altera latching in the
> correct and incorrect data was seen to be about 1/2 nano-second. By
> selective heating (and/or cooling) of the various chips, I could "adjust"
> the timing to make the device work or fail. Of course, we had to fix the
> timing problem, but my first line of discovery is (often) Freeze Spray.
> When I've run out of the stuff, I grab the "Dust-Off" can and run it in
> "inverted" mode to get the Freeze Spray effect.
>
> p.s. After reading items in this forum about BGAs and circuit cooler, I've
> vowed to never squirt the BGA packages. There is waaaaaaay too much chance
> of wrecking something there, since there are no leads to absorb the flex
> caused by differential thermal expansions.
>
> Carl Van Wormer
> Cipher Systems
> 1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010
> Beaverton, OR 97006
> Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Carlile [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 9:12 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
>
> We recently received a prototype batch of 4 boards and experienced 4 for 4
> failing test. Our techs sprayed down certain chips with Freeze Spray and
> the board began working properly, at least for a short period of time. I
> have checked prior tech net postings and have found fantastic responses as
> to why Freeze Spray can damage a the IC or board, but can anyone explain why
> they would begin functioning properly. Being a rookie component engineer I
> can fully understand the issues related to freeze spray, but out techs and
> design engineers are just going to point the finger since their units work
> when sprayed. To further complicate the matter the chips that are being
> sprayed are not all the same manufacturer and I can easily rule out a
> component failure. Our senior engineer thinks that it may be timing related
> since the main circuit being froze is the Altera PLD (20K400E) and related
> circuitry.
>
> Can anyone defend the use of Freeze Spray?
>
> Can anyone present a logical failure mechanism?
>
> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
>
> The best Freeze Spray argument to date was Werner Engelmaier's:
> http://jefry.ipc.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9907&L=TechNet&D=0&m=23823&P=55370
>
> However this points to failure after spray not the opposite.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
> Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
> Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------36EBA99788F6695C947FF15F
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Bev,
<p>Years ago (about 7) there was a company selling hand held Vortex generators
that plugged into 100 psi shop air.
<br>These little jewels put out -40 degree C air as long as there was 100
psi available. It also had to be dry nonlubed air.
<p>The company was called EXAir. I don't know if they are still around.
<p>David A. Douthit
<br>Manager
<br>LoCan LLC
<p>Bev Christian wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>And I would like to point out yet again that most
of these materials are
<br>fully fluorinated materials that have incredibly long atmospheric lives
and
<br>thus have terribly high global warming potentials. I would recommend
using
<br>food grade carbon dioxide instead. You can buy a "gun" to put
on the
<br>compressed gas tank to aim the liquid/gas at the component in question.
<br>Sorry I can't remember the name of the company right now, but if you
check
<br>the archives under my name for the '96 to '98 time frame you might
find it.
<br>And others might chime in to augment my failing memory. ;(
<p>regards,
<br>Bev Christian
<br>Research in Motion.
<p>-----Original Message-----
<br>From: Carl VanWormer [<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]
<br>Sent: April 24, 2002 10:23 AM
<br>To: [log in to unmask]
<br>Subject: Re: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
<p>As to the cause of your problems, I vote for timing problems, with a
close
<br>second guess at system noise caused by impedance mismatch on long control
<br>signal lines.
<p>I'm Carl and I'm a Freeze Spray user . . .
<p>Now that I've got that off my chest, I'd like to say that I seldom wreck
<br>stuff, and can usually find thermal mechanical intermittents and
<br>(particularly) timing problems. Frozen parts seem to have faster transition
<br>edges. A long time ago, I was able to make our 4 MHz Z-80 processor
system
<br>work at 7.8 MHz by freezing the processor, EPROM, and RAM chips (with
a
<br>variable oscillator for testing). Recently, I've found that I
could fix (or
<br>cause to fail) a new design by squirting the Altera (EPLD) or processor.
<br>The culprit was "timing" and a poorly designed (overloaded) set of
control
<br>and bus lines. The difference in timing between the Altera latching
in the
<br>correct and incorrect data was seen to be about 1/2 nano-second.
By
<br>selective heating (and/or cooling) of the various chips, I could "adjust"
<br>the timing to make the device work or fail. Of course, we had
to fix the
<br>timing problem, but my first line of discovery is (often) Freeze Spray.
<br>When I've run out of the stuff, I grab the "Dust-Off" can and run it
in
<br>"inverted" mode to get the Freeze Spray effect.
<p>p.s. After reading items in this forum about BGAs and circuit
cooler, I've
<br>vowed to never squirt the BGA packages. There is waaaaaaay too
much chance
<br>of wrecking something there, since there are no leads to absorb the
flex
<br>caused by differential thermal expansions.
<p>Carl Van Wormer
<br>Cipher Systems
<br>1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010
<br>Beaverton, OR 97006
<br>Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550
<p>-----Original Message-----
<br>From: Ken Carlile [<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]
<br>Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 9:12 PM
<br>To: [log in to unmask]
<br>Subject: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
<p>We recently received a prototype batch of 4 boards and experienced 4
for 4
<br>failing test. Our techs sprayed down certain chips with Freeze
Spray and
<br>the board began working properly, at least for a short period of time.
I
<br>have checked prior tech net postings and have found fantastic responses
as
<br>to why Freeze Spray can damage a the IC or board, but can anyone explain
why
<br>they would begin functioning properly. Being a rookie component
engineer I
<br>can fully understand the issues related to freeze spray, but out techs
and
<br>design engineers are just going to point the finger since their units
work
<br>when sprayed. To further complicate the matter the chips that
are being
<br>sprayed are not all the same manufacturer and I can easily rule out
a
<br>component failure. Our senior engineer thinks that it may be
timing related
<br>since the main circuit being froze is the Altera PLD (20K400E) and
related
<br>circuitry.
<p>Can anyone defend the use of Freeze Spray?
<p>Can anyone present a logical failure mechanism?
<p>/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
<p>The best Freeze Spray argument to date was Werner Engelmaier's:
<br><a href="http://jefry.ipc.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9907&L=TechNet&D=0&m=23823&P=55370">http://jefry.ipc.org/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9907&L=TechNet&D=0&m=23823&P=55370</a>
<p>However this points to failure after spray not the opposite.
<p>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>-----
<br>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
<br>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in
<br>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
<br>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET
<br>Technet NOMAIL
<br>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
<br>[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
<br>Search the archives of previous posts at: <a href="http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archives</a>
<br>Please visit IPC web site <a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>
for additional
<br>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
<br>ext.5315
<br>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>-----
<p>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>-----
<br>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
<br>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in
<br>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
<br>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET
<br>Technet NOMAIL
<br>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
<br>[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
<br>Search the archives of previous posts at: <a href="http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archives</a>
<br>Please visit IPC web site <a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>
for additional
<br>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
<br>ext.5315
<br>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>-----
<p>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
<br>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in
<br>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
<br>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
<br>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet Digest
<br>Search the archives of previous posts at: <a href="http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archives</a>
<br>Please visit IPC web site <a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>
for additional
<br>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
<br>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</blockquote>
</html>
--------------36EBA99788F6695C947FF15F--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:43:21 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: AM79C970AVIW (or not)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
My thanks to all those who tried to help me find some of AMD's Industial
grade Ethernet Controller AM79C970AVIW. Sadly these animals are apparently
extict, so my next question to you all is, "Does anyone know of a good
up-screening house that would screen commercial parts for acceptability as
Industrial grade?"
All help very greatly appreciated as ever.
Peter
[This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should
not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other
person. Thank you.]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:44:40 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_97.26a774dc.29f8ab78_boundary"
--part1_97.26a774dc.29f8ab78_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi David!
That's why this list is so valuable! They are still around!
Http://www.exair.com
Thanks!
-Steve Gregory-
> Bev, Years ago (about 7) there was a company selling hand held Vortex
> generators that plugged into 100 psi shop air.
> These little jewels put out -40 degree C air as long as there was 100 psi
> available. It also had to be dry nonlubed air. The company was called
> EXAir. I don't know if they are still around. David A. Douthit
> Manager
> LoCan LLC
>
>
--part1_97.26a774dc.29f8ab78_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi David!<BR>
<BR>
That's why this list is so valuable! They are still around! Http://www.exair.com<BR>
<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Bev, Years ago (about 7) there was a company selling hand held Vortex generators that plugged into 100 psi shop air. <BR>
These little jewels put out -40 degree C air as long as there was 100 psi available. It also had to be dry nonlubed air. The company was called EXAir. I don't know if they are still around. David A. Douthit <BR>
Manager <BR>
LoCan LLC <BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_97.26a774dc.29f8ab78_boundary--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:02:59 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: TEMP EXTREME
X-To: [log in to unmask]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Jim,
This response comes to you from China.
Why do your "test guys want to subject this assembly to 125Cfor 112 hours?" Is this a test board? If it is, this artificial aging prior to T-cycling is very appropriate and recommended in both IPC-SM-785 and IPC-9701 to prevent artificially optimistic solder joint fatigue results.
Werner Engelmaier
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:44:39 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: AM79C970AVIW (or not)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:11:40 +0300
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microscopes
X-To: "Torres, Roberto" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Roberto
Does this matter? If you use a 4.3 or higher Mpixel camera, there are
sufficient pixels left in the centre zone to record what you need to
see, nicht war?
Brian
"Torres, Roberto" wrote:
>
> All;
>
> Thanks for the suggestions on Microscopes and Digital photographs.
> The suggestion from Charles was of particular interest. Seems like
> most use the method we use here now put the digital camera to the
> lens of the microscope and snap away, it is just with this method
> we tend to get a lot of telescope images, that is round and black
> around the edges.
>
> Again thanks for all the input.
>
> Regards
> Bob Torres
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:29:50 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Peter Hefti <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Peter Hefti <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Accelerated test for simulation of storage of PCBs with surface
finish white tin
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00292EB9C1256BA6_="
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
--=_alternative 00292EB9C1256BA6_=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello TechNet:
We are searching for a method of accelerated aging of PCBs with surface
finish in white tin (chemical tin).
This method should be recognized , in order to simulate the storage of 6
or 12 month under normal conditions.
(85/85/1d or 2d test ??)
After such an accelerated test, the solderability will be tested by the
wetting balance method.
Thank you for your answer
With best regards
Peter Hefti
--=_alternative 00292EB9C1256BA6_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hello TechNet:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">We are searching for a method of accelerated aging of PCBs with surface finish in white tin (chemical tin).</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">This method should be recognized , in order to simulate the storage of 6 or 12 month under normal conditions.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">(85/85/1d or 2d test ??)</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">After such an accelerated test, the solderability will be tested by the wetting balance method.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thank you for your answer</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">With best regards</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Peter Hefti </font>
--=_alternative 00292EB9C1256BA6_=--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 06:31:29 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ESSENTIAL MLB STUFF
Per off line requests, I've sent nearly 20 essential, to me, MLB
requirements. The package size is about 500k and again is getting a bit
cumbersome to email by myself.
Daan, are you there. If you would be so kind, I'll send you the package and
you can post it on your great site.
MoonMan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:09:33 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
If I understand correctly, you deposit solder paste under the component
during the initial build. After reflow, the paste solidifies and makes
contact with the bottom of the component for heat transfer. Your question
is what to do when replacing the component. How do you replace the solder
bumps under the device.
Is the body of the component ceramic or metal? If ceramic, when you remove
the devise the solder bumps should remain intact, nice and flat. Why not
leave these bumps as is and place the component, contacting the existing
bumps while soldering? If the case is metal, and you disturb the bumps
during removal, how about reapplying solder paste, placing the component and
reflowing it with a hot air terminal? Another option is to change the
drawing to allow the use of a thermal adhesive for rework.
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: Becerra Alejandro [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
Hello to All,
We have a circuit that requires solder under it because in order to
have a good thermal dissipation.
The circuit is a QFP48. When assembled in the line, the stencil has
apertures in the body of the component in order to apply solder.
We have tried to manually apply the solder with an iron tip, but
after cross-sectioning the repair component we have found that
sometimes the solder is not in contact with the component.
What could be the appropriate procedure to repair this component?
Regards,
Alejandro Becerra
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:22:00 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: TEMP EXTREME
X-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>,
"[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Just to clarify things, the housing that this assembly is installed in is a
two part housing. One side houses the SMT assembly and the other side is a
microelectronic hybrid, which eventually gets hermetically sealed. The
extended burn-in (air) at 125 C is for the hybrid requirements of MIL 883
and 38534. We're actually doing 48 hours pre-seal and 112 hours post seal.
The electrical engineers want to keep the SMT assembly in the housing during
the hybrid burn-in because the whole thing was tested and tuned this way. I
guess their afraid that removing the assembly prior to burn-in then
replacing it might screw up their performance. I just had a gut feeling
that subjecting this board to 125C for a total of 160 hours isn't a good
thing.
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask]
[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:20 PM
To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] TEMP EXTREME
Hi Jim! The solder joint microstructure is going to experience
pretty
extensive recrystalization under the 112 hours at 125C soak. I
haven't a
clue on what the overall impact will be on solder joint reliability
but it
is certain you are losing some of the operation life of the
assemblies.
Many Class 3 products withstand 2000 hours of thermal cycling from
-55C to
+125C failure free. Those assemblies spend a total of 500 hours at
the 125C
extreme (assuming 15 minute dwells). However, there is a difference
between
thermal cycling and thermal soaking - is your use environment going
to be
more thermal cycle or thermal soak?
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
"Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 04/24/2002
09:33:21
AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please
respond
to "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: [TN] TEMP EXTREME
Hello Technet:
I think I may have asked this question a while ago (or something
similar)
but couldn't find anything in the archives. I have a surface mount
assembly
that gets installed into a top assembly housing, with covers. The
test
guys
want to subject this assembly to 125 degrees C for 112 hours.
Assuming
that
all of the components are rated for this temperature, is there
anything
else
that says this isn't a good idea? I'm thinking about the solder
joints,
maybe decreased reliability due to excessive grain growth? How
about
acrylic conformal coating? The PWB is polyimide, so this shouldn't
be an
issue. Anything else?
Thanks again...
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:11:13 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC5A.ACDB9CD0"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC5A.ACDB9CD0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
We deposit solder paste under the component in order to help for heat
transfer.
The bottom side of the component is made of metal, then when I remove the
component we also remove the solder.
Applying solder paste again in the rework operation is a good idea.
Do you know how can we apply solder paste during rework?
Is it possible to use a mini-stencil? Where can I find a vendor for the
mini-stencil?
Thanks for your help.
Alejandro
-----Original Message-----
From: Marsico, James [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:10 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
If I understand correctly, you deposit solder paste under the component
during the initial build. After reflow, the paste solidifies and makes
contact with the bottom of the component for heat transfer. Your question
is what to do when replacing the component. How do you replace the solder
bumps under the device.
Is the body of the component ceramic or metal? If ceramic, when you remove
the devise the solder bumps should remain intact, nice and flat. Why not
leave these bumps as is and place the component, contacting the existing
bumps while soldering? If the case is metal, and you disturb the bumps
during removal, how about reapplying solder paste, placing the component and
reflowing it with a hot air terminal? Another option is to change the
drawing to allow the use of a thermal adhesive for rework.
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: Becerra Alejandro [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
Hello to All,
We have a circuit that requires solder under it because in order to
have a good thermal dissipation.
The circuit is a QFP48. When assembled in the line, the stencil has
apertures in the body of the component in order to apply solder.
We have tried to manually apply the solder with an iron tip, but
after cross-sectioning the repair component we have found that
sometimes the solder is not in contact with the component.
What could be the appropriate procedure to repair this component?
Regards,
Alejandro Becerra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC5A.ACDB9CD0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>RE: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>We deposit solder paste under the component in order =
to help for heat transfer.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>The bottom side of the component is made of metal, =
then when I remove the component we also remove the solder.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Applying solder paste again in the rework operation =
is a good idea.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Do you know how can we apply solder paste during =
rework?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Is it possible to use a mini-stencil? Where can I =
find a vendor for the mini-stencil?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks for your help.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Alejandro</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Marsico, James [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]
</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:10 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [log in to unmask]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder =
Paste below</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If I understand correctly, you deposit solder paste =
under the component</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>during the initial build. After reflow, the =
paste solidifies and makes</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>contact with the bottom of the component for heat =
transfer. Your question</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>is what to do when replacing the component. =
How do you replace the solder</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>bumps under the device.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Is the body of the component ceramic or metal? =
If ceramic, when you remove</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the devise the solder bumps should remain intact, =
nice and flat. Why not</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>leave these bumps as is and place the component, =
contacting the existing</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>bumps while soldering? If the case is metal, =
and you disturb the bumps</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>during removal, how about reapplying solder paste, =
placing the component and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>reflowing it with a hot air terminal? Another =
option is to change the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>drawing to allow the use of a thermal adhesive for =
rework.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Jim Marsico</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Senior Engineer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Production Engineering</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>EDO Electronics Systems Group</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>[log in to unmask] <<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>=
></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>631-595-5879</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2> =
-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =
From: Becerra Alejandro [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:54 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =
To: [log in to unmask]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> =
Subject: [TN] Repair of =
Circuit with Solder Paste below</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2> Hello to =
All,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2> We have a =
circuit that requires solder under it because in order to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>have a good thermal dissipation.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> The =
circuit is a QFP48. When assembled in the line, the stencil has</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>apertures in the body of the component in order to =
apply solder.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2> We have =
tried to manually apply the solder with an iron tip, but</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>after cross-sectioning the repair component we have =
found that</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2> sometimes =
the solder is not in contact with the component.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2> What =
could be the appropriate procedure to repair this component?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2> =
Regards,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2> Alejandro =
Becerra</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<P><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------=
------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC =
using LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] =
with following text in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF =
Technet</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail =
to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: =
send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Search the archives of previous posts at: <A =
HREF=3D"http://listserv.ipc.org/archives" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://listserv.ipc.org/archives</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Please visit IPC web site <A =
HREF=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A> for =
additional</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at =
[log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT>
<BR><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------=
------------------</FONT>
</P>
</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC5A.ACDB9CD0--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 06:32:03 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
peter blokhuis <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: peter blokhuis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Looking for laser drill service company.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Can anyone share the name of a good laser drilling
service company?
Peter Blokhuis
585-254-2988 x243
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:39:49 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ESSENTIAL MLB STUFF
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Generated by NET-TEL Mailguard SMTP version 4.0.0.22)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Earl,
I'll be glad to help you. Could you send it to [log in to unmask] ? I'll =
make a link on my website and post a message when the document is online.
Daan Terstegge
SMT Centre
Thales Communications
Unclassified mail
Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net
>>> Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> 04/25 1:31 pm >>>
Per off line requests, I've sent nearly 20 essential, to me, MLB
requirements. The package size is about 500k and again is getting a bit
cumbersome to email by myself.
Daan, are you there. If you would be so kind, I'll send you the package =
and
you can post it on your great site.
MoonMan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: =
SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to Listserv@ip=
c.org: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives=
=20
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 =
ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:44:50 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
X-To: Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]
tce.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<html>
<a href="http://www.minimicrostencil.com/" eudora="autourl">www.minimicrostencil.com</a>.
They can make custom stencils from your gerber files. We use them for all
of our BGA rework and have found them to be a great resource.<br><br>
Ed<br><br>
<br>
At 08:11 AM 4/25/2002 -0500, you wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font size=2>We deposit solder
paste under the component in order to help for heat transfer.</font>
<br>
<font size=2>The bottom side of the component is made of metal, then when
I remove the component we also remove the solder.</font> <br>
<font size=2>Applying solder paste again in the rework operation is a
good idea.</font> <br>
<font size=2>Do you know how can we apply solder paste during
rework?</font> <br>
<font size=2>Is it possible to use a mini-stencil? Where can I find a
vendor for the mini-stencil?</font> <br><br>
<font size=2>Thanks for your help.</font> <br><br>
<font size=2>Alejandro</font> <br><br>
<font size=2>-----Original Message-----</font> <br>
<font size=2>From: Marsico, James
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]</font>
<br>
<font size=2>Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:10 AM</font> <br>
<font size=2>To: [log in to unmask]</font> <br>
<font size=2>Subject: Re: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste
below</font> <br><br>
<font size=2>If I understand correctly, you deposit solder paste under
the component</font> <br>
<font size=2>during the initial build. After reflow, the paste
solidifies and makes</font> <br>
<font size=2>contact with the bottom of the component for heat
transfer. Your question</font> <br>
<font size=2>is what to do when replacing the component. How do you
replace the solder</font> <br>
<font size=2>bumps under the device.</font> <br><br>
<font size=2>Is the body of the component ceramic or metal? If
ceramic, when you remove</font> <br>
<font size=2>the devise the solder bumps should remain intact, nice and
flat. Why not</font> <br>
<font size=2>leave these bumps as is and place the component, contacting
the existing</font> <br>
<font size=2>bumps while soldering? If the case is metal, and you
disturb the bumps</font> <br>
<font size=2>during removal, how about reapplying solder paste, placing
the component and</font> <br>
<font size=2>reflowing it with a hot air terminal? Another option
is to change the</font> <br>
<font size=2>drawing to allow the use of a thermal adhesive for
rework.</font> <br><br>
<font size=2>Jim Marsico</font> <br>
<font size=2>Senior Engineer</font> <br>
<font size=2>Production Engineering</font> <br>
<font size=2>EDO Electronics Systems Group</font> <br>
<font size=2>[log in to unmask]
<<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>></font>
<br>
<font size=2>631-595-5879</font> <br><br>
<font size=2> -----Original
Message-----</font> <br>
<font size=2> From:
Becerra Alejandro [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]</font> <br>
<font size=2> Sent:
Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:54 PM</font> <br>
<font size=2>
To: [log in to unmask]</font> <br>
<font size=2>
Subject: [TN] Repair of Circuit
with Solder Paste below</font> <br><br>
<font size=2> Hello to
All,</font> <br><br>
<font size=2> We have a circuit
that requires solder under it because in order to</font> <br>
<font size=2>have a good thermal dissipation.</font> <br>
<font size=2> The circuit is a
QFP48. When assembled in the line, the stencil has</font> <br>
<font size=2>apertures in the body of the component in order to apply
solder.</font> <br><br>
<font size=2> We have tried to
manually apply the solder with an iron tip, but</font> <br>
<font size=2>after cross-sectioning the repair component we have found
that</font> <br><br>
<font size=2> sometimes the
solder is not in contact with the component.</font> <br>
<font size=2> What could be the
appropriate procedure to repair this component?</font> <br><br>
<font size=2> Regards,</font>
<br><br>
<font size=2> Alejandro Becerra</font> <br><br>
<br>
<font size=2>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font> <br>
<font size=2>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d</font> <br>
<font size=2>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in</font> <br>
<font size=2>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet</font> <br>
<font size=2>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL</font> <br>
<font size=2>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest</font> <br>
<font size=2>Search the archives of previous posts at: <a href="http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archives</a></font> <br>
<font size=2>Please visit IPC web site <a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a> for additional</font> <br>
<font size=2>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</font> <br>
<font size=2>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font> </blockquote><br>
</html>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:55:27 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Pete Jones <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Pete Jones <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FAB Question: laminate - 1 ply or 2??
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hello all TechNetters,
What is the difference between using 1 ply of laminate or 2 in fab boards?
Is there a REAL concern that 1 ply will not be sufficient electrical
insolation? Or has resins now evolved enough to make it safe to use just one
ply?
I deal mostly, but not exclusively, with the military and would like to make
sure of my statement that 1 ply should be sufficient. Can I get reliable
references anywhere concerning this issue, one way or the other?
Thanks to all participants in this discussion.
Pete
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:01:45 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Nice equipment but well the original post was about freezing electronic
component, and not to cool down dry machining operations.
For electronic application, the chemical used must be clean and not have
any contaminants in it, otherwise the electronic won't like it.
I see that Exair Vortex include a dust and oil filter but is it clean
enough for electronic parts ?
Another thing is that also it is small compared to a milling machine, the
Vortex is still quite bulky to use in a lab, specially with the hose for
the shop air.
Aother thing to consider is that most freeze spray are specified with low
electrostatic charge, because charge build-up could destroy components.
As for Bev Christian's concern about CFC, there are Freeze Spray without
CFC.
Jean-Luc Lehmann
SteveZeva@AOL
.COM To: [log in to unmask]
Sent by: cc:
TechNet Subject: Re: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
<[log in to unmask]
ORG>
25.04.02
02:44
Please
respond to
"TechNet
E-Mail
Forum.";
Please
respond to
SteveZeva
Hi David!
That's why this list is so valuable! They are still around!
Http://www.exair.com
Thanks!
-Steve Gregory-
Bev, Years ago (about 7) there was a company selling hand held Vortex
generators that plugged into 100 psi shop air.
These little jewels put out -40 degree C air as long as there was 100 psi
available. It also had to be dry nonlubed air. The company was called
EXAir. I don't know if they are still around. David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:20:46 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Steve Owen <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve Owen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
X-To: Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC64.645177F0"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC64.645177F0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Alejandro,
We are currently looking into attaching the metal body of a SO8 component to
a pcb. Are you able to tell me whether or not you are using a stepped
stencil or a standard one, in order to acheive the required connection with
the body of the device to the PCB and also and the leg to the PCB ?. At the
moment we are using .006" thick stencils.
Regards
Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: Becerra Alejandro [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 25 April 2002 14:11
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
We deposit solder paste under the component in order to help for heat
transfer.
The bottom side of the component is made of metal, then when I remove the
component we also remove the solder.
Applying solder paste again in the rework operation is a good idea.
Do you know how can we apply solder paste during rework?
Is it possible to use a mini-stencil? Where can I find a vendor for the
mini-stencil?
Thanks for your help.
Alejandro
-----Original Message-----
From: Marsico, James [ mailto:[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]> ]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:10 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
If I understand correctly, you deposit solder paste under the component
during the initial build. After reflow, the paste solidifies and makes
contact with the bottom of the component for heat transfer. Your question
is what to do when replacing the component. How do you replace the solder
bumps under the device.
Is the body of the component ceramic or metal? If ceramic, when you remove
the devise the solder bumps should remain intact, nice and flat. Why not
leave these bumps as is and place the component, contacting the existing
bumps while soldering? If the case is metal, and you disturb the bumps
during removal, how about reapplying solder paste, placing the component and
reflowing it with a hot air terminal? Another option is to change the
drawing to allow the use of a thermal adhesive for rework.
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] < mailto:[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: Becerra Alejandro [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
Hello to All,
We have a circuit that requires solder under it because in order to
have a good thermal dissipation.
The circuit is a QFP48. When assembled in the line, the stencil has
apertures in the body of the component in order to apply solder.
We have tried to manually apply the solder with an iron tip, but
after cross-sectioning the repair component we have found that
sometimes the solder is not in contact with the component.
What could be the appropriate procedure to repair this component?
Regards,
Alejandro Becerra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
<http://listserv.ipc.org/archives>
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm
<http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm> for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk <http://www.star.net.uk>
________________________________________________________________________
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC64.645177F0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<TITLE>RE: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below</TITLE>
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=269234913-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Alejandro,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=269234913-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=269234913-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We are
currently looking into attaching the metal body of a SO8 component to a pcb. Are
you able to tell me whether or not you are using a stepped stencil or a standard
one, in order to acheive the required connection with the body of the
device to the PCB and also and the leg to the PCB ?. At
the moment we are using .006" thick stencils.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=269234913-25042002></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=269234913-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Regards</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=269234913-25042002></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=269234913-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Steve.</FONT> </SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Becerra Alejandro
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 25 April 2002 14:11<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder
Paste below<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>We deposit solder paste under the component in order to help
for heat transfer.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>The bottom side of the component is
made of metal, then when I remove the component we also remove the
solder.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Applying solder paste again in the rework
operation is a good idea.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Do you know how can we apply
solder paste during rework?</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Is it possible to use a
mini-stencil? Where can I find a vendor for the mini-stencil?</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Thanks for your help.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Alejandro</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From:
Marsico, James [<A
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:10 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>To: [log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: Re: [TN] Repair of
Circuit with Solder Paste below</FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>If I understand correctly, you deposit solder paste under the
component</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>during the initial build. After
reflow, the paste solidifies and makes</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>contact with
the bottom of the component for heat transfer. Your question</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>is what to do when replacing the component. How do you
replace the solder</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>bumps under the device.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Is the body of the component ceramic or metal? If
ceramic, when you remove</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the devise the solder bumps
should remain intact, nice and flat. Why not</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>leave these bumps as is and place the component, contacting the
existing</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>bumps while soldering? If the case is
metal, and you disturb the bumps</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>during removal, how
about reapplying solder paste, placing the component and</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>reflowing it with a hot air terminal? Another option is to change
the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>drawing to allow the use of a thermal adhesive for
rework.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Jim Marsico</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Senior Engineer</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Production Engineering</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>EDO
Electronics Systems Group</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>[log in to unmask]
<<A
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>></FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>631-595-5879</FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2> -----Original
Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> From: Becerra
Alejandro [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> Sent: Wednesday,
April 24, 2002 4:54 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> To:
[log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>
Subject: [TN] Repair of Circuit with
Solder Paste below</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> Hello to
All,</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> We have a circuit
that requires solder under it because in order to</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>have
a good thermal dissipation.</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> The circuit is a QFP48. When
assembled in the line, the stencil has</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>apertures in
the body of the component in order to apply solder.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> We have tried to
manually apply the solder with an iron tip, but</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>after
cross-sectioning the repair component we have found that</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> sometimes the
solder is not in contact with the component.</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> What could be the
appropriate procedure to repair this component?</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> Regards,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT size=2> Alejandro
Becerra</FONT> </P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT
size=2>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using
LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To unsubscribe, send a message to
[log in to unmask] with following text in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the BODY (NOT
the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To temporarily
halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet
NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the
posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>Search the archives of previous posts at: <A target=_blank
href="http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archives</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Please visit IPC web site <A target=_blank
href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A>
for additional</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>information, or contact Keach Sasamori
at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT>
</P><BR>________________________________________________________________________<BR>This
e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The<BR>service is
powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive<BR>anti-virus
service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:<BR><A
href="http://www.star.net.uk">http://www.star.net.uk</A><BR>________________________________________________________________________<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC64.645177F0--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:20:01 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
X-To: Steve Owen <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC64.494CF6F0"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC64.494CF6F0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Steve,
We are using a 0.006" thick stencil (No stepped).
We have not had problems in making contact the body of the component with
the solder.
Alejandro
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Owen [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 8:21 AM
To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.; Becerra Alejandro
Subject: RE: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
Alejandro,
We are currently looking into attaching the metal body of a SO8 component to
a pcb. Are you able to tell me whether or not you are using a stepped
stencil or a standard one, in order to acheive the required connection with
the body of the device to the PCB and also and the leg to the PCB ?. At the
moment we are using .006" thick stencils.
Regards
Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: Becerra Alejandro [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 25 April 2002 14:11
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
We deposit solder paste under the component in order to help for heat
transfer.
The bottom side of the component is made of metal, then when I remove the
component we also remove the solder.
Applying solder paste again in the rework operation is a good idea.
Do you know how can we apply solder paste during rework?
Is it possible to use a mini-stencil? Where can I find a vendor for the
mini-stencil?
Thanks for your help.
Alejandro
-----Original Message-----
From: Marsico, James [ mailto:[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]> ]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:10 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
If I understand correctly, you deposit solder paste under the component
during the initial build. After reflow, the paste solidifies and makes
contact with the bottom of the component for heat transfer. Your question
is what to do when replacing the component. How do you replace the solder
bumps under the device.
Is the body of the component ceramic or metal? If ceramic, when you remove
the devise the solder bumps should remain intact, nice and flat. Why not
leave these bumps as is and place the component, contacting the existing
bumps while soldering? If the case is metal, and you disturb the bumps
during removal, how about reapplying solder paste, placing the component and
reflowing it with a hot air terminal? Another option is to change the
drawing to allow the use of a thermal adhesive for rework.
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] < mailto:[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: Becerra Alejandro [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
Hello to All,
We have a circuit that requires solder under it because in order to
have a good thermal dissipation.
The circuit is a QFP48. When assembled in the line, the stencil has
apertures in the body of the component in order to apply solder.
We have tried to manually apply the solder with an iron tip, but
after cross-sectioning the repair component we have found that
sometimes the solder is not in contact with the component.
What could be the appropriate procedure to repair this component?
Regards,
Alejandro Becerra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
<http://listserv.ipc.org/archives>
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm
<http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm> for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
________________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The
service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive
anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:
http://www.star.net.uk <http://www.star.net.uk>
________________________________________________________________________
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC64.494CF6F0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<TITLE>RE: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below</TITLE>
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=721191714-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Steve,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=721191714-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We are
using a 0.006" thick stencil (No stepped).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=721191714-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We
have not had problems in making contact the body of the component with the
solder.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=721191714-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=721191714-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Alejandro</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Steve Owen
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 25, 2002 8:21
AM<BR><B>To:</B> TechNet E-Mail Forum.; Becerra Alejandro<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
[TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=269234913-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Alejandro,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=269234913-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=269234913-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We are
currently looking into attaching the metal body of a SO8 component to a pcb. Are
you able to tell me whether or not you are using a stepped stencil or a standard
one, in order to acheive the required connection with the body of the
device to the PCB and also and the leg to the PCB ?. At
the moment we are using .006" thick stencils.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=269234913-25042002></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=269234913-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Regards</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=269234913-25042002></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=269234913-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Steve.</FONT> </SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Becerra Alejandro
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 25 April 2002 14:11<BR><B>To:</B>
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder
Paste below<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>We deposit solder paste under the component in order to help
for heat transfer.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>The bottom side of the component is
made of metal, then when I remove the component we also remove the
solder.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Applying solder paste again in the rework
operation is a good idea.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Do you know how can we apply
solder paste during rework?</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Is it possible to use a
mini-stencil? Where can I find a vendor for the mini-stencil?</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Thanks for your help.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Alejandro</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From:
Marsico, James [<A
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:10 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>To: [log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: Re: [TN] Repair of
Circuit with Solder Paste below</FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>If I understand correctly, you deposit solder paste under the
component</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>during the initial build. After
reflow, the paste solidifies and makes</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>contact with
the bottom of the component for heat transfer. Your question</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>is what to do when replacing the component. How do you
replace the solder</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>bumps under the device.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Is the body of the component ceramic or metal? If
ceramic, when you remove</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the devise the solder bumps
should remain intact, nice and flat. Why not</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>leave these bumps as is and place the component, contacting the
existing</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>bumps while soldering? If the case is
metal, and you disturb the bumps</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>during removal, how
about reapplying solder paste, placing the component and</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>reflowing it with a hot air terminal? Another option is to change
the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>drawing to allow the use of a thermal adhesive for
rework.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Jim Marsico</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Senior Engineer</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Production Engineering</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>EDO
Electronics Systems Group</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>[log in to unmask]
<<A
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>></FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>631-595-5879</FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2> -----Original
Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> From: Becerra
Alejandro [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> Sent: Wednesday,
April 24, 2002 4:54 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> To:
[log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>
Subject: [TN] Repair of Circuit with
Solder Paste below</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> Hello to
All,</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> We have a circuit
that requires solder under it because in order to</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>have
a good thermal dissipation.</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> The circuit is a QFP48. When
assembled in the line, the stencil has</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>apertures in
the body of the component in order to apply solder.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> We have tried to
manually apply the solder with an iron tip, but</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>after
cross-sectioning the repair component we have found that</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> sometimes the
solder is not in contact with the component.</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> What could be the
appropriate procedure to repair this component?</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> Regards,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT size=2> Alejandro
Becerra</FONT> </P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT
size=2>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using
LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To unsubscribe, send a message to
[log in to unmask] with following text in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the BODY (NOT
the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To temporarily
halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet
NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the
posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>Search the archives of previous posts at: <A target=_blank
href="http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archives</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Please visit IPC web site <A target=_blank
href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A>
for additional</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>information, or contact Keach Sasamori
at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT>
</P><BR>________________________________________________________________________<BR>This
e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The<BR>service is
powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive<BR>anti-virus
service working around the clock, around the globe, visit:<BR><A
href="http://www.star.net.uk">http://www.star.net.uk</A><BR>________________________________________________________________________<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC64.494CF6F0--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:21:25 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Debbie Goodwin <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Debbie Goodwin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
X-To: Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC64.7B99DB50"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC64.7B99DB50
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Try www.minimicrostencil.com <http://www.minimicrostencil.com> they sell
micro stencils for individual components.
Debbie Goodwin
Account Representative
10867 Portal Dr
Los Alamitos, CA 90720
Phone = (714) 252-0010
Fax = (714) 252-0026
PLEASE NOTE - Effective Immediately New e-mail address is:
[log in to unmask]
__________________________________________________
This message is intended for the use of the individual entity to which it is
addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and
exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message
is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for
delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
please notify us immediately by calling
714.252.0010 or returning the original message to us. Thank You.
-----Original Message-----
From: Becerra Alejandro [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:11 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
We deposit solder paste under the component in order to help for heat
transfer.
The bottom side of the component is made of metal, then when I remove the
component we also remove the solder.
Applying solder paste again in the rework operation is a good idea.
Do you know how can we apply solder paste during rework?
Is it possible to use a mini-stencil? Where can I find a vendor for the
mini-stencil?
Thanks for your help.
Alejandro
-----Original Message-----
From: Marsico, James [ mailto:[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]> ]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:10 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
If I understand correctly, you deposit solder paste under the component
during the initial build. After reflow, the paste solidifies and makes
contact with the bottom of the component for heat transfer. Your question
is what to do when replacing the component. How do you replace the solder
bumps under the device.
Is the body of the component ceramic or metal? If ceramic, when you remove
the devise the solder bumps should remain intact, nice and flat. Why not
leave these bumps as is and place the component, contacting the existing
bumps while soldering? If the case is metal, and you disturb the bumps
during removal, how about reapplying solder paste, placing the component and
reflowing it with a hot air terminal? Another option is to change the
drawing to allow the use of a thermal adhesive for rework.
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] < mailto:[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: Becerra Alejandro [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below
Hello to All,
We have a circuit that requires solder under it because in order to
have a good thermal dissipation.
The circuit is a QFP48. When assembled in the line, the stencil has
apertures in the body of the component in order to apply solder.
We have tried to manually apply the solder with an iron tip, but
after cross-sectioning the repair component we have found that
sometimes the solder is not in contact with the component.
What could be the appropriate procedure to repair this component?
Regards,
Alejandro Becerra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
<http://listserv.ipc.org/archives>
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm
<http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm> for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC64.7B99DB50
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<TITLE>RE: [TN] Repair of Circuit with Solder Paste below</TITLE>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=450413314-25042002>Try <A
href="http://www.minimicrostencil.com">www.minimicrostencil.com</A> they sell
micro stencils for individual components.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Debbie Goodwin</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Account Representative</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>10867 Portal
Dr</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Los Alamitos, CA 90720</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>Phone = (714) 252-0010 </FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Fax
= (714) 252-0026</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>PLEASE NOTE - Effective
Immediately New e-mail address is: [log in to unmask]</FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>__________________________________________________</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial size=1>This message is intended for the use of the individual entity
to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the
reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent
responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication
is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
please notify us immediately by calling </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=1>714.252.0010 or returning the original message to
us. Thank You.</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Becerra Alejandro
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:11
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Repair of Circuit
with Solder Paste below<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<P><FONT size=2>We deposit solder paste under the component in order to help
for heat transfer.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>The bottom side of the component is
made of metal, then when I remove the component we also remove the
solder.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Applying solder paste again in the rework
operation is a good idea.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Do you know how can we apply
solder paste during rework?</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Is it possible to use a
mini-stencil? Where can I find a vendor for the mini-stencil?</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Thanks for your help.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Alejandro</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>From:
Marsico, James [<A
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:10 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>To: [log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Subject: Re: [TN] Repair of
Circuit with Solder Paste below</FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2>If I understand correctly, you deposit solder paste under the
component</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>during the initial build. After
reflow, the paste solidifies and makes</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>contact with
the bottom of the component for heat transfer. Your question</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>is what to do when replacing the component. How do you
replace the solder</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>bumps under the device.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Is the body of the component ceramic or metal? If
ceramic, when you remove</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the devise the solder bumps
should remain intact, nice and flat. Why not</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>leave these bumps as is and place the component, contacting the
existing</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>bumps while soldering? If the case is
metal, and you disturb the bumps</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>during removal, how
about reapplying solder paste, placing the component and</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>reflowing it with a hot air terminal? Another option is to change
the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>drawing to allow the use of a thermal adhesive for
rework.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2>Jim Marsico</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Senior Engineer</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Production Engineering</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>EDO
Electronics Systems Group</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>[log in to unmask]
<<A
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>></FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>631-595-5879</FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT size=2> -----Original
Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> From: Becerra
Alejandro [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> Sent: Wednesday,
April 24, 2002 4:54 PM</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> To:
[log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>
Subject: [TN] Repair of Circuit with
Solder Paste below</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> Hello to
All,</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> We have a circuit
that requires solder under it because in order to</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>have
a good thermal dissipation.</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> The circuit is a QFP48. When
assembled in the line, the stencil has</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>apertures in
the body of the component in order to apply solder.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> We have tried to
manually apply the solder with an iron tip, but</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>after
cross-sectioning the repair component we have found that</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> sometimes the
solder is not in contact with the component.</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2> What could be the
appropriate procedure to repair this component?</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=2> Regards,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT size=2> Alejandro
Becerra</FONT> </P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT
size=2>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using
LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To unsubscribe, send a message to
[log in to unmask] with following text in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the BODY (NOT
the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To temporarily
halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet
NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the
posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>Search the archives of previous posts at: <A
href="http://listserv.ipc.org/archives"
target=_blank>http://listserv.ipc.org/archives</A></FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>Please visit IPC web site <A href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm"
target=_blank>http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A> for additional</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=2>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=2>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT>
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC64.7B99DB50--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:08:04 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Paul Signorelli <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Paul Signorelli <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Don't forget about dendrites (Electro migration)...
Any time your board goes through the dew point with moisture
condensing,
and you have the power applied, you can grow dendrites. They can grow
under BGA's, Connectors ,etc.
That's why chilling (freeze misting) below the dew point out side of a
chamber is so hazardous.
Ref: IPC - TR-476 How to Avoid Metallic Growth Problems on Electronic
Hardware.
Even on a really pure surface the water can become conductive enough to
start a little
electro-chemical plating cell. In low voltage high impedance circuits
it will grow a short (dendrite) and the short will stay there.
Paul Signorelli
Reliability Engineer
Sanmina-SCI Corporation, Plant 12
702 Bandley Dr.
Fountain, CO 80817
eMail address: [log in to unmask]
Phone: 719-382-2352, Fax: 719-382-2520
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:53:54 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Dennis Petrosky <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dennis Petrosky <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Philips Signetics SCC 68692 Dual UART
X-cc: Don Furmanski <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0051D64385256BA6_="
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
--=_alternative 0051D64385256BA6_=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
For the Philips Signetics Dual UART, P/N SCC 68692 has anyone seen the
following problems with newer parts. We don't seem to have problems with
older parts, 1994 date code. We have the problems with newer parts 2000
and 2001 parts. We don't know where the date change actually occurred.
The problems don't happen 100% of the time on the new parts. Temperature
seems to affect it. The problem occurrs more often at higher
temperatures.
The problems are:
1. The baud rate is wrong by a factor of 16. If you select 19.2K baud
for example, the part tries for 307K baud.
2. The part drops bits on the output data and requires 3 tries on any
RS232 input to get the correct character. For instance, if you are
pressing a series of 1's on the keyboard, then press 2, it will take 3
presses of 2 before the 2 is actually outputed on the UART. The problem
seems to be in changing bits on the output word from low to high. If a
bit is high and is intended to be high, it will stay high. If a bit is
low and is intended to stay low, it will stay low. If a bit is high and
needs to go low, it will go low on the first key press. If a bit is low
and needs to go high, it will take 3 key presses to go high.
Dennis Petrosky
Circuit Card Manufacturing Engineer
607-763-4745
--=_alternative 0051D64385256BA6_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">For the Philips Signetics Dual UART, P/N SCC 68692 has anyone seen the following problems with newer parts. We don't seem to have problems with older parts, 1994 date code. We have the problems with newer parts 2000 and 2001 parts. We don't know where the date change actually occurred. The problems don't happen 100% of the time on the new parts. Temperature seems to affect it. The problem occurrs more often at higher temperatures.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">The problems are:</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">1. The baud rate is wrong by a factor of 16. If you select 19.2K baud for example, the part tries for 307K baud.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">2. The part drops bits on the output data and requires 3 tries on any RS232 input to get the correct character. For instance, if you are pressing a series of 1's on the keyboard, then press 2, it will take 3 presses of 2 before the 2 is actually outputed on the UART. The problem seems to be in changing bits on the output word from low to high. If a bit is high and is intended to be high, it will stay high. If a bit is low and is intended to stay low, it will stay low. If a bit is high and needs to go low, it will go low on the first key press. If a bit is low and needs to go high, it will take 3 key presses to go high.</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Dennis Petrosky<br>
Circuit Card Manufacturing Engineer<br>
607-763-4745</font>
--=_alternative 0051D64385256BA6_=--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:11:51 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phillip Hinton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Temperature Extreme
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_4c.a82a78b.29f976b7_boundary"
--part1_4c.a82a78b.29f976b7_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
All,
It is best to look at what the life-environment requiremnt is for the
assembly. In parts of this industry we qualify the solder and assembly by
aging at 200oC for 200 hours and then cycle for 100 cycles -40 to 200oC using
6 hours per cycle ( 2 hours top and 1 hour bottom). This represents the
operating environment that the assembly will experience. Surprisingly, some
of the soft solders do survive, but not Sn63. I would do the pre-cycle aging
if the operating environment is maybe 100oC, but would use 125oC for a 200
hours. The thermal aging induces many of the metallurgical changes that the
assembly may undergo in its lifetime, and shortens the test time need to
qualify a product. (the poor ones fail early and drastically). The thermal
aging oven time is cheap. If operating temperatures are lower, there is no
need to have the higher temperature, I use operating temperature plus 25oC.
No scientific basis, but it has seems to work.
Phil Hinton
--part1_4c.a82a78b.29f976b7_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>All,
<BR>It is best to look at what the life-environment requiremnt is for the assembly. In parts of this industry we qualify the solder and assembly by aging at 200oC for 200 hours and then cycle for 100 cycles -40 to 200oC using 6 hours per cycle ( 2 hours top and 1 hour bottom). This represents the operating environment that the assembly will experience. Surprisingly, some of the soft solders do survive, but not Sn63. I would do the pre-cycle aging if the operating environment is maybe 100oC, but would use 125oC for a 200 hours. The thermal aging induces many of the metallurgical changes that the assembly may undergo in its lifetime, and shortens the test time need to qualify a product. (the poor ones fail early and drastically). The thermal aging oven time is cheap. If operating temperatures are lower, there is no need to have the higher temperature, I use operating temperature plus 25oC. No scientific basis, but it has se!
ems to work.
<BR>
<BR>Phil Hinton
<BR>
<BR> </FONT></HTML>
--part1_4c.a82a78b.29f976b7_boundary--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:28:13 +0300
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jean-Luc
Bev's problem is not with CFCs but HFCs and HCFCs. HFCs do not cause
ozone depletion, like CFCs do but they do contribute greatly to climate
change (hundreds of times worse than CO2) and that is a real issue. To
the best of my knowledge, the only ones that are more or less
environmentally benign are the CO2 ones (unless you use propane, and the
resultant fire/explosion hazard ain't that funny), but you are taking a
quantum leap downwards in temperature with consequent thermal shock and
TCE differential. As for your hypothesis about electrostatics, the only
way you can make any gas conduct away a charge is to ionise it.
Otherwise, it is a damn good insulator and all of them are on equal
footing.
Brian
[log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> Nice equipment but well the original post was about freezing electronic
> component, and not to cool down dry machining operations.
>
> For electronic application, the chemical used must be clean and not have
> any contaminants in it, otherwise the electronic won't like it.
> I see that Exair Vortex include a dust and oil filter but is it clean
> enough for electronic parts ?
> Another thing is that also it is small compared to a milling machine, the
> Vortex is still quite bulky to use in a lab, specially with the hose for
> the shop air.
>
> Aother thing to consider is that most freeze spray are specified with low
> electrostatic charge, because charge build-up could destroy components.
>
> As for Bev Christian's concern about CFC, there are Freeze Spray without
> CFC.
>
> Jean-Luc Lehmann
>
> SteveZeva@AOL
> .COM To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent by: cc:
> TechNet Subject: Re: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
> <[log in to unmask]
> ORG>
>
> 25.04.02
> 02:44
> Please
> respond to
> "TechNet
> E-Mail
> Forum.";
> Please
> respond to
> SteveZeva
>
> Hi David!
>
> That's why this list is so valuable! They are still around!
> Http://www.exair.com
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Steve Gregory-
>
> Bev, Years ago (about 7) there was a company selling hand held Vortex
> generators that plugged into 100 psi shop air.
> These little jewels put out -40 degree C air as long as there was 100 psi
> available. It also had to be dry nonlubed air. The company was called
> EXAir. I don't know if they are still around. David A. Douthit
> Manager
> LoCan LLC
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:31:34 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jean-Luc and other TechNetters,
I just want to point out that I was absolutely NOT talking about CFC's
(chlorofluorocarbons), which of course I know are banned. I am concerned
about fully fluorinated compounds - no chlorine, no hydrogen, just
CF3(CF2)nCF3 and branched chain equivalents. I will shut up if someone can
tell me about cooling sprays that are not based on CF compounds - or on
relatively friendly gases like CO2 and N2.
Bev Christian
Research in Motion
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: April 25, 2002 10:02 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
Nice equipment but well the original post was about freezing electronic
component, and not to cool down dry machining operations.
For electronic application, the chemical used must be clean and not have
any contaminants in it, otherwise the electronic won't like it.
I see that Exair Vortex include a dust and oil filter but is it clean
enough for electronic parts ?
Another thing is that also it is small compared to a milling machine, the
Vortex is still quite bulky to use in a lab, specially with the hose for
the shop air.
Aother thing to consider is that most freeze spray are specified with low
electrostatic charge, because charge build-up could destroy components.
As for Bev Christian's concern about CFC, there are Freeze Spray without
CFC.
Jean-Luc Lehmann
SteveZeva@AOL
.COM To: [log in to unmask]
Sent by: cc:
TechNet Subject: Re: [TN] Freeze Spray
Trouble Shooting
<[log in to unmask]
ORG>
25.04.02
02:44
Please
respond to
"TechNet
E-Mail
Forum.";
Please
respond to
SteveZeva
Hi David!
That's why this list is so valuable! They are still around!
Http://www.exair.com
Thanks!
-Steve Gregory-
Bev, Years ago (about 7) there was a company selling hand held Vortex
generators that plugged into 100 psi shop air.
These little jewels put out -40 degree C air as long as there was 100 psi
available. It also had to be dry nonlubed air. The company was called
EXAir. I don't know if they are still around. David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:06:33 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Simms, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Simms, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Wanted: CM auditor
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Technetters.
A local contract manufacturer recently contacted our organization
and requested assistance in finding an auditor familar with
electronic contract manufacturing. The Cm would like an auditor
or consultant to review their organization and help them improve it.
Interested parties are encouraged to contact Mr. Mukesh Vasani
of Creative Hi-Tech Ltd.in Elk Grove Village, Illinois
E mail @ [log in to unmask]
Web: www.creativehitech.com
Thanks for any help T'netters
Mike Simms
Trace Laboratories - Central
(ph.) 847-934-5300
(fax) 847-934-4600M
1150 West Euclid Avenue
Palatine, IL 60067
www.tracelabs.com
Notice: This message is confidential and intended for the private use of
the addressee only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:11:08 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
K HERK <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: K HERK <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BOW/WARP
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Is there a chart for PCB bowing ?
I have a typical value of 0.007"/1" bow, but a
customer wants to know the
bow for the specific case of 1.6mm FR-4. Are there
different "ranges" of
bowing that a PCB is specified at ?
Also, how does temperature affect bowing ? The
customer says that bowing
occurs during solder reflow where the temperatures are
a few 100 degrees
Celsius.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:28:42 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ESSENTIAL MLB STUFF
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hey MoonMan,
The Electronics Manufacturers Association (EMA), in the Northwest, has a web
site that I'd be happy to post your file on and any others until it gets out
of hand ;-). We support anything that is nonprofit and enriches the world of
electronics manufacturing.
Let me know if we can be of service.
Ken Bloomquist
Secretary, EMA
www.ema-wa.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 4:31 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] ESSENTIAL MLB STUFF
Per off line requests, I've sent nearly 20 essential, to me, MLB
requirements. The package size is about 500k and again is getting a bit
cumbersome to email by myself.
Daan, are you there. If you would be so kind, I'll send you the package and
you can post it on your great site.
MoonMan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:53:46 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Torres, Roberto" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Torres, Roberto" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microscopes
X-To: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Brian;
Well noted, just looks odd on the .jpg files.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 11:12 PM
To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.; Torres, Roberto
Subject: Re: [TN] Microscopes
Roberto
Does this matter? If you use a 4.3 or higher Mpixel camera, there are
sufficient pixels left in the centre zone to record what you need to
see, nicht war?
Brian
"Torres, Roberto" wrote:
>
> All;
>
> Thanks for the suggestions on Microscopes and Digital photographs.
> The suggestion from Charles was of particular interest. Seems like
> most use the method we use here now put the digital camera to the
> lens of the microscope and snap away, it is just with this method
> we tend to get a lot of telescope images, that is round and black
> around the edges.
>
> Again thanks for all the input.
>
> Regards
> Bob Torres
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:07:27 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Tuan Bui <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Tuan Bui <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Immersion Gold Vs Immersion Tin for 0201 landpatterns
Hello Technetters,
I'm a new member to this board, and hope some technetters could void their
opinions and advices on this issues.
We are currently dealing with a 0201 SMT process and have some issues with
a HASL 0201 landpatterns. The HASL PCB has non-uniformed finshed surface,
and results in tombstones and solderballs after the reflow process. We then
switch to Immersion gold 0201 landpatterns and the issues of solderballs
and tombstones went away. The average cost different between HASl and
Immersion gold (7-10 micron)is about 6 - 8 % in cost. Another PCB vendor
introduced us to Immersion Tin (white tin) to reduce the additional cost of
Immersion Gold pads (about 2-5 % cost different between HASl and Tin). We
have used Immersion Gold in many of our prototype products and having
really high yeilds, but we have not try the Immersion Tin pad finished and
wonder if they behave like the Immersion Gold. The vendor also mentioned
that the Tin finished will oxidize and have a shelf life of 12 months.
BTW, We are using "No Clean" process with Convection air oven.
Any technetter has experienced in both pads surface finished ( Gold Vs Tin)
is greatly appreciates.
Tuan Bui
Process Dev Eng
Conexant Systems Inc.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:38:32 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Accelerated test for simulation of storage of PCBs with
surface finish white tin
X-To: Peter Hefti <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1EC5E.7E04F6A0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1EC5E.7E04F6A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I am not aware of a industry consensus standard for stressing "white tin"
that can be correlated to a 6-12 month shelf life. 85-85-8 seems like a good
start but wetting forces between tin-lead solder and the tin finish are not
the same as forces acting solder to solder. My experience, even with
pristine immersion tin finish the forces are lower and slower. The process
is different because white tin is a combination of tin and organic finish.
I'm sure there are members of this forum that can add to this thread.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Peter Hefti
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 3:30 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Accelerated test for simulation of storage of PCBs with
surface finish white tin
Hello TechNet:
We are searching for a method of accelerated aging of PCBs with surface
finish in white tin (chemical tin).
This method should be recognized , in order to simulate the storage of 6 or
12 month under normal conditions.
(85/85/1d or 2d test ??)
After such an accelerated test, the solderability will be tested by the
wetting balance method.
Thank you for your answer
With best regards
Peter Hefti
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1EC5E.7E04F6A0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D602182717-25042002>I am=20
not aware of a industry consensus standard for stressing "white tin" =
that can be=20
correlated to a 6-12 month shelf life. 85-85-8 seems like a good start =
but=20
wetting forces between tin-lead solder and the tin finish are not the =
same as=20
forces acting solder to solder. My experience, even with pristine =
immersion tin=20
finish the forces are lower and slower. The process is different because =
white=20
tin is a combination of tin and organic finish.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D602182717-25042002></SPAN><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D602182717-25042002><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D602182717-25042002><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial>I'm sure =
there=20
are members of this forum that can add to this=20
thread. </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D602182717-25042002></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN=20
class=3D602182717-25042002> </SPAN>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Peter =
Hefti<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Thursday, April 25, 2002 3:30 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Accelerated test for simulation =
of=20
storage of PCBs with surface finish white tin<FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D602182717-25042002> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial><SPAN =
class=3D602182717-25042002> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif>Hello TechNet:</FONT></FONT> <BR><BR><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D2>We are searching for a method of accelerated aging of PCBs with =
surface=20
finish in white tin (chemical tin).</FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D2>This method should be recognized , in order to simulate the =
storage of 6=20
or 12 month under normal conditions.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D2>(85/85/1d or 2d test ??)</FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D2>After such an accelerated test, the solderability will be =
tested by the=20
wetting balance method.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2>Thank you=20
for your answer</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>With =
best=20
regards</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Peter Hefti=20
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1EC5E.7E04F6A0--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:47:06 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
K HERK <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: K HERK <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: bow/warp
X-To: Tuan Bui <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Is there a chart for PCB bowing ?
I have a typical value of 0.007"/1" bow, but a
customer wants to know the
bow for the specific case of 1.6mm FR-4. Are there
different "ranges" of
bowing that a PCB is specified at ?
Also, how does temperature affect bowing ? The
customer says that bowing
occurs during solder reflow where the temperatures are
a few 100 degrees
Celsius.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:47:43 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ESSENTIAL MLB STUFF
X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_010C_01C1EC92.10C96920"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_010C_01C1EC92.10C96920
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I uploaded the document to my website. It can be accesed from =
http://www.smtinfo.net/startpage.html in the "design for manufacturing" =
section, look for "Essential MLB Information From Design Through Proof =
Of Design"
Didn't have the time to read it yet, but on a first scan it looks like a =
must-read !
Daan Terstegge
http://www.smtinfo.net
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Earl Moon=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 1:31 PM
Subject: [TN] ESSENTIAL MLB STUFF
Per off line requests, I've sent nearly 20 essential, to me, MLB
requirements. The package size is about 500k and again is getting a =
bit
cumbersome to email by myself.
Daan, are you there. If you would be so kind, I'll send you the =
package and
you can post it on your great site.
MoonMan
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV =
1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text =
in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to =
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to =
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: =
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for =
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or =
847-509-9700 ext.5315
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------
------=_NextPart_000_010C_01C1EC92.10C96920
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>I uploaded the document to my website. It can be accesed =
from <A=20
href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net/startpage.html">http://www.smtinfo.net/sta=
rtpage.html</A> in=20
the "design for manufacturing" section, look for "<A=20
href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net/docs/ESSENTIALMLB1.doc">Essential MLB =
Information=20
From Design Through Proof Of Design</A>"</DIV>
<DIV>Didn't have the time to read it yet, but on a first scan it looks =
like a=20
must-read !</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Daan Terstegge</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net">http://www.smtinfo.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Earl =
Moon</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask]
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 25, 2002 =
1:31=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TN] ESSENTIAL MLB =
STUFF</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Per off line requests, I've sent nearly 20 essential, =
to me,=20
MLB<BR>requirements. The package size is about 500k and again is =
getting=20
a bit<BR>cumbersome to email by myself.<BR><BR>Daan, are you there. If =
you=20
would be so kind, I'll send you the package and<BR>you can post it on =
your=20
great=20
=
site.<BR><BR>MoonMan<BR><BR>---------------------------------------------=
------------------------------------<BR>Technet=20
Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<BR>To=20
unsubscribe, send a message to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> with following =
text=20
in<BR>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet<BR>To =
temporarily halt=20
delivery of Technet send e-mail to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>: SET Technet =
NOMAIL<BR>To=20
receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>: SET Technet=20
Digest<BR>Search the archives of previous posts at: <A=20
=
href=3D"http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archive=
s</A><BR>Please=20
visit IPC web site <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.=
htm</A>=20
for additional<BR>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> or 847-509-9700=20
=
ext.5315<BR>-------------------------------------------------------------=
--------------------</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_010C_01C1EC92.10C96920--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:48:45 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"WEEKES, MICHAEL HS-SNS" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "WEEKES, MICHAEL HS-SNS" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BOW/WARP
X-To: K HERK <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
IPC 600 page 56 section 2.11 on flatness, but your assembly line/ process
really indicates what's acceptable. Use your least robust machine (the one
that cannot tolerate bow/twist) to determine your REAL requirement. Each
manufacturer (pick/place) recommends a bow/twist max in mm or in. It also
depends on PWB thickness - a 0.030" telecon PWB is much more flimsy than a
0.125" high voltage PWB. In line conveyors hate excessive bow or twist,
especially.
PS. PWBs can be flattened with a soak at warm temps under a weight.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: K HERK [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 11:11 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] BOW/WARP
Is there a chart for PCB bowing ?
I have a typical value of 0.007"/1" bow, but a
customer wants to know the
bow for the specific case of 1.6mm FR-4. Are there
different "ranges" of
bowing that a PCB is specified at ?
Also, how does temperature affect bowing ? The
customer says that bowing
occurs during solder reflow where the temperatures are
a few 100 degrees
Celsius.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:54:28 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"WEEKES, MICHAEL HS-SNS" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "WEEKES, MICHAEL HS-SNS" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Accelerated test for simulation of storage of PCBs with
surface finish white tin
X-To: Peter Hefti <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC82.3E851FE0"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC82.3E851FE0
Content-Type: text/plain
for a PCB with vias/thru holes
try 140 F with 95% RH for 96 hrs.
then reflow 3 cycles
wave solder
take a look at flow up thru holes/vias
some believe this represents 8 months of shelf life approx.
(from a Mike Carano IPC workshop) - thanks Mike!
Mike Weekes
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Hefti [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 2:30 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Accelerated test for simulation of storage of PCBs with
surface finish white tin
Hello TechNet:
We are searching for a method of accelerated aging of PCBs with surface
finish in white tin (chemical tin).
This method should be recognized , in order to simulate the storage of 6 or
12 month under normal conditions.
(85/85/1d or 2d test ??)
After such an accelerated test, the solderability will be tested by the
wetting balance method.
Thank you for your answer
With best regards
Peter Hefti
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC82.3E851FE0
Content-Type: text/html
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=US-ASCII">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=965115117-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>for a
PCB with vias/thru holes</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=965115117-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=965115117-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>try
140 F with 95% RH for 96 hrs.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=965115117-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>then
reflow 3 cycles</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=965115117-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>wave
solder</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=965115117-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>take a
look at flow up thru holes/vias</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=965115117-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=965115117-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>some
believe this represents 8 months of shelf life approx.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=965115117-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>(from
a Mike Carano IPC workshop) - thanks Mike!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=965115117-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=965115117-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Mike
Weekes</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Peter Hefti
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 25, 2002 2:30
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Accelerated test for
simulation of storage of PCBs with surface finish white
tin<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Hello TechNet:</FONT>
<BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>We are searching for a method of
accelerated aging of PCBs with surface finish in white tin (chemical
tin).</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>This method should be
recognized , in order to simulate the storage of 6 or 12 month under normal
conditions.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>(85/85/1d or 2d test
??)</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>After such an accelerated test,
the solderability will be tested by the wetting balance method.</FONT>
<BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Thank you for your answer</FONT>
<BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>With best regards</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2>Peter Hefti </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC82.3E851FE0--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:09:12 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Steve Kelly <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve Kelly <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: test for film residue
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Does anyone know of a test to look for film/stripper residue after copper
stripping. Thanks for the help. Steve Kelly
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:12:44 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"WEEKES, MICHAEL HS-SNS" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "WEEKES, MICHAEL HS-SNS" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: flex coverlayer min. spacing from any interconnect / via
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C1EC8D.2DDBADC0"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_000_01C1EC8D.2DDBADC0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC8D.2DDBADC0"
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC8D.2DDBADC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
request for critique / review:
please review the attached and critique for submittal for next IPC A 600 or
flex spec. rev.:
Mike Weekes
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC8D.2DDBADC0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=891015818-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>request for critique / review:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=891015818-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=891015818-25042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>please
review the attached and critique for submittal for next IPC A 600 or flex spec.
rev.:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=891015818-25042002></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=891015818-25042002> <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Mike Weekes</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EC8D.2DDBADC0--
------_=_NextPart_000_01C1EC8D.2DDBADC0--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:04:58 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Failure rate to Package Size
We are currently looking to minimize board space by switching from 0805 and
0603 parts to either 0402 or 0201 where applicable. I have read responses
from the archive indicating pro's and con's, but I was wondering from a
production standpoint if there is any factual data for the increase in
solderability issues resulting from reduced packaging. Are there any QA
types out there with this rework data? I would have to believe brindging
and tombstoning increase.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:33:43 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dave Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Accelerated test for simulation of storage of PCBs with
surface finish white tin
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Peter! Let me redefine a misconception - if you are truly going to "=
age"
a pwb sample then the aging method would produce either the same oxide
conditions, the same intermetallic conditions or the combination of
oxide/intermetallic conditions that the pwb sample would have after sit=
ting
in storage for X amount of time. Unfortunately surface finish oxidation=
doesn't behave well in accelerated conditioning - typically you
force/produce oxide thicknesses/species which are not present under nor=
mal
storage conditions. Intermetallic growth is better behaved and there ha=
ve
been some good data published showing those relationships. I recommend =
you
look at two conditioning methods: the use of humidity and the use of
temperature. Tin surface finishes tend to degrade quickly under humid
conditions in terms oxide growth. The use of temperature will highlight=
intermetallic growth problems. Now what recipes to use? Many investigat=
ions
have used 85C/85% RH as their humidity parameters for oxide growth - yo=
u
get to pick the time. Many investigations use either 125C for 8 hours o=
r
150C for 16 hours as their temperature parameters for intermetallic gro=
wth.
Instead of expecting to "age" the surface finish, looking at your
conditioning as attempting to determine the "robustness" of the surface=
finish for a set of conditions (you will be much happier in the long ru=
n).
You will have to decide just how "robust" you want the coating. For
example, are acceptable wetting balance values after 48 hours of 85/85
exposure robust enough for your manufacturing process to have high yiel=
ds?
Only you can determine that. The IPC Alternative Final Finishes task gr=
oup,
chaired by Denny Fritz of MacDermid, is in the final stages of issuing=
a
report that attempts to answer the question " is there a
time/temperature/humidity conditioning parameter set which can be used =
for
a variety of finishes to predict robustness?" - the JSTD-003 committee
intends to use the Alt Finish committee efforts to revise the current
"steam aging" methodology. Hope this helps.
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
Peter Hefti <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 04/25/2002 02:29:50 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please res=
pond
to Peter Hefti <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: [TN] Accelerated test for simulation of storage of PCBs wit=
h
surface finish white tin
Hello TechNet:
We are searching for a method of accelerated aging of PCBs with surface=
finish in white tin (chemical =A0tin).
This method should be recognized , in order to simulate the storage of =
6 or
12 month under normal conditions.
(85/85/1d or 2d =A0test ??)
After such an accelerated test, the solderability will be tested by the=
wetting balance method.
Thank you for your answer
With best regards
Peter Hefti
=
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:50:54 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Rudy Sedlak <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: test for film residue
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_148.d89a811.29f9fe6e_boundary"
--part1_148.d89a811.29f9fe6e_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4.25.02 12:23:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
> Does anyone know of a test to look for film/stripper residue after copper
> stripping.
Assume you mean after stripping film from Copper?
Stripper residue is a tough one, and not real likely to be an issue.
Tarnish could be another issue that is very difficult to test for except by
sight. Depending on stripper, this could be significant....the clue is, if
the problem gets worse as the stripper chemistry gets older, it is quite
possibly tarnish...
Film residue is the most likely residue. One way to test that is a good
test, but, can make your test board need rework is to drop on an immersion
plating solution. Two different ones are common. Some people use immersion
Tin to test if the surface is clean. A drop should plate uniformly, and
adherently. Another test is to drop on Silver Nitrate solution...usually use
the stuff that is used for titration in the lab. The surface should
essentially immediately turn black, and it should be adherent.
Another residue problem that can occur, and especially in old stripper
chemistry, is immersion Tin residues....this does not relate to the test
above. Rather, your stripper chemistry can pickup Tin from the oxide on the
plating on outerlayers, and redeposit this on the Copper next to it. The
potential for this problem is magnified tremendously if you strip in a tank,
rather than exclusively in sprays, and can be strongly affected by the
condition of the Tin plating solution. If your Tin electroplating solution
looks very milky, this is disperse Tin oxide, which co-deposits with the Tin
metal, then easily dissolves in certain kinds of stripper chemistry, and
redeposits, sometimes even is sprays, on the adjacent Copper.
The film residues have become an especial problem in recent years, as the new
generation of photoresists, which stick VERY well, require specially
formulated types of stripper chemistry.
I probably have told you more than you want to know, but, in case I haven't,
you can call me to discuss it.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company 650-962-8004
--part1_148.d89a811.29f9fe6e_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 4.25.02 12:23:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Does anyone know of a test to look for film/stripper residue after copper<BR>
stripping. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Assume you mean after stripping film from Copper?<BR>
<BR>
Stripper residue is a tough one, and not real likely to be an issue.<BR>
<BR>
Tarnish could be another issue that is very difficult to test for except by sight. Depending on stripper, this could be significant....the clue is, if the problem gets worse as the stripper chemistry gets older, it is quite possibly tarnish...<BR>
<BR>
Film residue is the most likely residue. One way to test that is a good test, but, can make your test board need rework is to drop on an immersion plating solution. Two different ones are common. Some people use immersion Tin to test if the surface is clean. A drop should plate uniformly, and adherently. Another test is to drop on Silver Nitrate solution...usually use the stuff that is used for titration in the lab. The surface should essentially immediately turn black, and it should be adherent.<BR>
<BR>
Another residue problem that can occur, and especially in old stripper chemistry, is immersion Tin residues....this does not relate to the test above. Rather, your stripper chemistry can pickup Tin from the oxide on the plating on outerlayers, and redeposit this on the Copper next to it. The potential for this problem is magnified tremendously if you strip in a tank, rather than exclusively in sprays, and can be strongly affected by the condition of the Tin plating solution. If your Tin electroplating solution looks very milky, this is disperse Tin oxide, which co-deposits with the Tin metal, then easily dissolves in certain kinds of stripper chemistry, and redeposits, sometimes even is sprays, on the adjacent Copper.<BR>
<BR>
The film residues have become an especial problem in recent years, as the new generation of photoresists, which stick VERY well, require specially formulated types of stripper chemistry.<BR>
<BR>
I probably have told you more than you want to know, but, in case I haven't, you can call me to discuss it.<BR>
<BR>
Rudy Sedlak<BR>
RD Chemical Company 650-962-8004</FONT></HTML>
--part1_148.d89a811.29f9fe6e_boundary--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:48:26 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Jim Keating <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jim Keating <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Looking for laser drill service company.
X-To: peter blokhuis <[log in to unmask]>
X-cc: "Ronald D. Schaeffer" <[log in to unmask]>,
Gabor Kardos <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Peter,
Please feel free to contact Photomachining at (603) 882-9944. I'm sure that we can be of service.
Regards
Jim Keating
peter blokhuis wrote:
> Can anyone share the name of a good laser drilling
> service company?
>
> Peter Blokhuis
> 585-254-2988 x243
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
> http://games.yahoo.com/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:51:35 +0300
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
X-To: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bev
I agree PFCs are the worst climate changers (with SF6) that exist. Some
of them are over 10,000 times worse than CO2. As a rule of thumb, 6
freezing cans which contain a PFC gas would have as much effect on
climate change as a medium car over its whole lifetime (horrific
thought). Furthermore, there will still be the contents of two of those
cans in the atmosphere 40-odd generations from now (assuming man lives
for another 40 generations!). However, I think most freezing cans
contain HFC-134a, which is bad enough but not as bad as PFCs. Some may
still contain HCFC-22 which is just as bad AND an ozone depleter, to
boot, but is not phased out under the Montreal Protocol until 2010 (some
countries may phase it out sooner).
Brian
Bev Christian wrote:
>
> Jean-Luc and other TechNetters,
> I just want to point out that I was absolutely NOT talking about CFC's
> (chlorofluorocarbons), which of course I know are banned. I am concerned
> about fully fluorinated compounds - no chlorine, no hydrogen, just
> CF3(CF2)nCF3 and branched chain equivalents. I will shut up if someone can
> tell me about cooling sprays that are not based on CF compounds - or on
> relatively friendly gases like CO2 and N2.
>
> Bev Christian
> Research in Motion
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: April 25, 2002 10:02 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
>
> Nice equipment but well the original post was about freezing electronic
> component, and not to cool down dry machining operations.
>
> For electronic application, the chemical used must be clean and not have
> any contaminants in it, otherwise the electronic won't like it.
> I see that Exair Vortex include a dust and oil filter but is it clean
> enough for electronic parts ?
> Another thing is that also it is small compared to a milling machine, the
> Vortex is still quite bulky to use in a lab, specially with the hose for
> the shop air.
>
> Aother thing to consider is that most freeze spray are specified with low
> electrostatic charge, because charge build-up could destroy components.
>
> As for Bev Christian's concern about CFC, there are Freeze Spray without
> CFC.
>
> Jean-Luc Lehmann
>
> SteveZeva@AOL
> .COM To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent by: cc:
> TechNet Subject: Re: [TN] Freeze Spray
> Trouble Shooting
> <[log in to unmask]
> ORG>
>
> 25.04.02
> 02:44
> Please
> respond to
> "TechNet
> E-Mail
> Forum.";
> Please
> respond to
> SteveZeva
>
> Hi David!
>
> That's why this list is so valuable! They are still around!
> Http://www.exair.com
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Steve Gregory-
>
> Bev, Years ago (about 7) there was a company selling hand held Vortex
> generators that plugged into 100 psi shop air.
> These little jewels put out -40 degree C air as long as there was 100 psi
> available. It also had to be dry nonlubed air. The company was called
> EXAir. I don't know if they are still around. David A. Douthit
> Manager
> LoCan LLC
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
> Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:57:43 +0300
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microscopes
X-To: "Torres, Roberto" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bob
There are at least ten softwares available which allow you to crop what
you don't wish to see (and otherwise enhance the image). I use Corel
PhotoPaint, part of the Corel Draw! Suite, but there are more expensive
ones, such as PhotoShop which will do exactly the same job. I think
Ulead make a good one, as well and you may even find freebies or
shareware on the 'Net. Cropping and resampling also allow you to reduce
the file size if you wish to send images by e-mail, without any further
compression or other loss of image quality.
Best regards,
Brian
"Torres, Roberto" wrote:
>
> Brian;
>
> Well noted, just looks odd on the .jpg files.
>
> Bob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 11:12 PM
> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.; Torres, Roberto
> Subject: Re: [TN] Microscopes
>
> Roberto
>
> Does this matter? If you use a 4.3 or higher Mpixel camera, there are
> sufficient pixels left in the centre zone to record what you need to
> see, nicht war?
>
> Brian
>
> "Torres, Roberto" wrote:
> >
> > All;
> >
> > Thanks for the suggestions on Microscopes and Digital photographs.
> > The suggestion from Charles was of particular interest. Seems like
> > most use the method we use here now put the digital camera to the
> > lens of the microscope and snap away, it is just with this method
> > we tend to get a lot of telescope images, that is round and black
> > around the edges.
> >
> > Again thanks for all the input.
> >
> > Regards
> > Bob Torres
> >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 06:57:05 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Strickland, Mark" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Strickland, Mark" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Insulation in the crimp contact area
X-To: "Forselles, Tom" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Look at IPC-A-620, figure 5-45. If you want confidence, go to the
manufacturers spec for the contact and pull test a sample(s) (with the same
configuration) to be sure the tensile strength meets the manufacturers
recommendations, or alternately you can cross-section a sample to ensure the
strands are deformed and fill the voids.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 07:11:41 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: ESSENTIAL MLB STUFF CONTINUED
Folks,
For those interested, I will be updating my article on MLB material
selections and constructions. I've asked Daan if he would post it with my
MLB ESSENTIAL STUFF.
My reason for doing this simply is because too many good folks suffer at the
hands of a lack of concurrence between themselves and their MLB suppliers.
As I've said before, I get most of my simple jobs fixing very costly
mistakes that are easily preventable using DFM/CE. In a way, I'm really
tired of this kind of crap but it's a living.
Anyway, for give me Peter, the following really prompted me to do this. Hope
it helps:
Peter,
High praise in deed from someone I respect highly.
First, I always get involved at the front end with "rookies" needing to
learn the talk so they can walk the walk. So, it all starts with clearly
defined requirements concerning what they must demand of their "qualified"
suppliers (of course, I do the qualification as well).
Master drawing notes, and attendant graphics and tables, not specifications,
are the fundamental, key instruments supporting any contract for PCB's.
Then, acceptance specifications, as IPC 600F - whatever class required, are
the next requirement clearly indicating what the board shop must look for,
as a function of master drawing requirements, and the methods used to
determine whether drawing requirements are met. X-sectioning is one very
important key for me and all I do and Section 7.0, in my notes, clearly call
out this requirement and its deliverables. All this applies with rookies
when I have to go in to fix a mess, which is most oftent the case these
days.
Concerning glass styles, you may have read one of my articles clearly
indicating the importance of this critical area. The tables I sent are not
revolutionary. They, along with whatever material matrix I need at the time,
ensure only specified materials and constructions are used to ensure
dimensional stability, bond strength, laminate integrity, and electrical
performance requirements are met - exactly as I specify. If you don't have
this article, I'll get it to you.
As I qualify my suppliers, I have a concurrent relationship established as a
function of the master drawing FIRST. If a supplier has a problem with
anything on the master drawing, we discuss it. If resolution is not
forthcoming, in my favor, that supplier is not qualified. This includes my
dictating what glass styles and resin contents are required in each
dielectric thickness as well as all the rest of the master drawin notes and
graphics. Simply, with even the most qualified shops with no discredit to
them, there must be no room for misinterpretation when high reliability/cost
MLB's are concerned. I demand concurrence, and always get it, from our first
conversations concerning a new design.
With all the foregoing, I never tell or dictate to a supplier how to manage
its processes though I, as part of the qualification process, know exactly
what is required in accordance with the master drawing. When it comes to
line widths, the supplier and myself know what is required as a function of
impedance, as one example, as well as other factors such as image, etch,
etc.. The latitude I allow concernis minor adjustments we both agree on
before starting the fab process. I allow little lattitude concerning
materials and constructions, but trace width may vary to meet a requirement
though other compromises may be made as well as long as we are both clear
and the requirement shows up in writing on the master drawing for that
particular board.
One of my most highly qualified board shops appeared to be having a
solderability issue as his x'd out boards wouldn't/couldn't meet my solder
wetting requirement. The "good" boards worked fine. Non wetting, it turns
out, was the reason for xing out the defective boards.
The master drawing notes you now attempt correcting some horrific issues on
some incredibly bad designs at the most rooky of companies. I had to do
something underneath the BGA's to prevent solder bridging from wave
soldering operations. This is a temporary fix until we go to blind vias on
this board. However, the notes clearly indicated what must be done as worked
out concurrently between the shop and myself. For the reasons you stated, I
am an anti tenter. I will use whatever path or process necessary to prevent
using tenting and there are many alternatives - usually.
The difference between core and foil lamination comes down to additional
layers/costs, and a much more favorable process for most all suppliers. It
is much easier and less costly to foil laminate as certain process
management issues are resolved as is surfact quality with fewer pits and
dents, as examples. The key is process management. If someone has never done
foil lamination, don't expect them to be capable of doing anything but core
processing.
Quality conformance test circuitry, and the coupons comprising it, are a key
element in my scheme of things. I cannot function without knowing what is in
the Z axiis where 90% of the board is hidden without x-sectional analysis in
accordance with IPC 6012 qualification requirements and 650 test methods
indicated therein. I insist on photomicrographs before and after thermal
stress. I correlate, again, all findings with master drawing reqirements
thus ensuring my requirements are met and I can take the board into
production expecting identical results.
There's so much more but so little time. I always enjoy talking with you and
learn much from your postings as well.
Let me know if I can be of more assistance,
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: <[log in to unmask]>
To: "Earl Moon" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] PREPREG
> Hi, Earl,
>
> Very many thanks indeed for the copy of you MLB Fab spec, although it is
> for class 2 boards, where mine are class 3. I am happy to see that much of
> my own fab spec reflects what you have built up for yours, although mine
> still lacks some of the detail you have included.
>
> I know little about glass styles or their properties, so have never dared
> to mention requirements in my specs. How important is it to specify glass
> styles that may not be used (e.g. 7628) - i.e. can that not be left to the
> good sense of the fabricaor? What is te problem with7628? Is it a low
resin
> glass, or is there something else that makes it unsuitable for certain
> aplications?
>
> Sorry to bug you with questions, but I would love to have greater insight
> to some of this stuff. How different is a Cu-Core-Cu construction from a
> foil laminated construction in terms of the end nett result? I specify the
> former, but am aware that at least one fab house actually makes the boards
> with foil lamination, at least for some layers. Should I be worried about
> this? The boards seem to have performed OK.
>
> You specify the same specs for different aspects throughout your spec,
> whereas I specify the specs to be complied with at the beginning of my
> spec, unless otherwise stated elsewhere in the spec. Have you found it
> necessary to re-state the specs for each aspect, or do you do so just to
be
> absolutely certain they're adhered to? Or are there options within the
> specs you specify for those aspects, and you're stating your requirement
or
> preference?
>
> I have never stated what the trace widths and spacings should be, allowing
> the Gerber data to speak for itself. Should I be stating them in writing
as
> well?
>
> Aren't etchback and desmear "givens" these days, or should they still be
> stated in Black and White?
>
> I haven't requested test coupons or other proof of compliance apart from a
> C of C, mostly because we have no facilities here for checking them
> ourselves. Only when we have a known fab problem will I ask for these. Nor
> have I thought to specify solderability requirements, and proof thereof.
> (You see, I do have a bit to learn!)
>
> I see you use tenting - I mention this only because of the debates that
> arise on TN frequently about this with regard to contamination entrapment
> and reduced cleaning effectiveness with this method. I have considered
> tenting inadvisable for Class 3 boards, have specifically recommended to
> the design team that it not be used (not that they know to specify it one
> way or the other anyway). In your experience, tenting is obviously not a
> problem, or has particular benefits or you wouldn't be including it in
your
> notes. Can you tell me the rationale behind using or not-using tenting,
> apart from not losing solder down holes and minimising the risk of "double
> reflow" (that phrase so hated by the redoubtable Sir GW)?
>
> Large respect
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> "Earl Moon" <[log in to unmask]> 25/04/2002 08:54 PM
>
> To: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST Aero/ST Group@ST
> Domain
> cc:
> Subject: Re: [TN] PREPREG
>
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:30:24 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
tony steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Fw: [TN] Immersion Gold Vs Immersion Tin for 0201 landpatterns
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
----- Original Message -----
From: "tony steinke" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: [TN] Immersion Gold Vs Immersion Tin for 0201 landpatterns
> Tuan,
>
> Both processes have their advantages and disadvantages. Both processes
> provide
> a very flat uniformed finish surface. You mention a 12 month shelf life
for
> the Immersion
> Tin, I would say it would be closer to 6-8 months(also the tin does not
> perform well in
> multiple pass assembly) You should check the technet archives and it will
> give you more information
> than you can imagine.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tuan Bui" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 10:07 AM
> Subject: [TN] Immersion Gold Vs Immersion Tin for 0201 landpatterns
>
>
> > Hello Technetters,
> >
> > I'm a new member to this board, and hope some technetters could void
their
> > opinions and advices on this issues.
> >
> > We are currently dealing with a 0201 SMT process and have some issues
with
> > a HASL 0201 landpatterns. The HASL PCB has non-uniformed finshed
surface,
> > and results in tombstones and solderballs after the reflow process. We
> then
> > switch to Immersion gold 0201 landpatterns and the issues of solderballs
> > and tombstones went away. The average cost different between HASl and
> > Immersion gold (7-10 micron)is about 6 - 8 % in cost. Another PCB vendor
> > introduced us to Immersion Tin (white tin) to reduce the additional cost
> of
> > Immersion Gold pads (about 2-5 % cost different between HASl and Tin).
We
> > have used Immersion Gold in many of our prototype products and having
> > really high yeilds, but we have not try the Immersion Tin pad finished
and
> > wonder if they behave like the Immersion Gold. The vendor also mentioned
> > that the Tin finished will oxidize and have a shelf life of 12 months.
> >
> > BTW, We are using "No Clean" process with Convection air oven.
> >
> > Any technetter has experienced in both pads surface finished ( Gold Vs
> Tin)
> > is greatly appreciates.
> >
> > Tuan Bui
> > Process Dev Eng
> > Conexant Systems Inc.
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> > Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 07:46:45 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
X-To: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
According to the site:
http://www.emsdiasum.com/ems/clean/duster.html
The stuff I'm using claims "100% ozone-safe pressurized duster products".
Since I turn the cans upside down (or refill my quick-freeze cans for a more
convenient spraying position), am I being more gentle to the environment?
If so, we can get down to the real question of "am I wrecking my electronics
systems by using quick-freeze for troubleshooting?"
Carl Van Wormer
Cipher Systems
1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010
Beaverton, OR 97006
Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 2:52 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
Bev
I agree PFCs are the worst climate changers (with SF6) that exist. Some
of them are over 10,000 times worse than CO2. As a rule of thumb, 6
freezing cans which contain a PFC gas would have as much effect on
climate change as a medium car over its whole lifetime (horrific
thought). Furthermore, there will still be the contents of two of those
cans in the atmosphere 40-odd generations from now (assuming man lives
for another 40 generations!). However, I think most freezing cans
contain HFC-134a, which is bad enough but not as bad as PFCs. Some may
still contain HCFC-22 which is just as bad AND an ozone depleter, to
boot, but is not phased out under the Montreal Protocol until 2010 (some
countries may phase it out sooner).
Brian
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 07:57:35 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 0402 stencil apperture design
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Has anyone used a "D"-shape 0402 land pattern on their
design?
The pad dimensions are 18x19mils (semi-circle on the
other ends) and 16mil spacing between the 2 pads.
What would be the stencil apperture recommendation for
the above design? We've used round pads for 0402s and
15% apperture reduction before.
Rgds,
Peter
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:47:24 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: George Milad <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Immersion Gold Vs Immersion Tin for 0201 landpatterns
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_4d.1d32fb53.29fad08c_boundary"
--part1_4d.1d32fb53.29fad08c_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Tuan,
Could you clarify the "Immersion Gold" process that you are using. Is it
Immersion gold over copper or it immersion gold over nickel over copper?
Immersion Tin is a viable alternative for your application. However the
thickness required will much higher than the 7 - 8 uins that you are
presently using for gold, more like 30 - 40 uins. Tin is realtive
inexpensive and can be easily reworked if shelf life becomes an issue.
George Milad
HDI Consulting
Chairman IPC Plating Committee.
--part1_4d.1d32fb53.29fad08c_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Tuan,
<BR>Could you clarify the "Immersion Gold" process that you are using. Is it Immersion gold over copper or it immersion gold over nickel over copper?
<BR>
<BR>Immersion Tin is a viable alternative for your application. However the thickness required will much higher than the 7 - 8 uins that you are presently using for gold, more like 30 - 40 uins. Tin is realtive inexpensive and can be easily reworked if shelf life becomes an issue.
<BR>
<BR>George Milad
<BR>HDI Consulting
<BR>Chairman IPC Plating Committee.
<BR></FONT></HTML>
--part1_4d.1d32fb53.29fad08c_boundary--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:47:26 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Ted Stern <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ted Stern <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: test for film residue
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------191063DEE8720AB4DEFFC5E5"
--------------191063DEE8720AB4DEFFC5E5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Steve:
Another potential source of "residue" on copper surfaces during dry
film stripping is absorption of oils - often attributable to antifoam
and/or excess use of antifoam.
Because copper is very oleophilic, minimal contamination may be
problematic (including fingerprints) and can contribute to a variety of
post strip processing problems; incomplete final etching ("copper
spots") being one of the more common defects. The methods suggested by
Rudy would detect this problem.
As a severe (and unusual) example of oil contamination, we once
encountered a customer employing compressed air agitation to dislodge
accumulated dry film particulate in the corners of the dry film stripper
spray sump. The air was introduced when the line was idle to improve
continuous dry film particulate filtration. The customer had been
employing the process for quite some time when random copper spots began
to be observed. If the stripper was replaced, the problem disappeared;
only to reoccur in 1-2 days. To make a long story short, it was
determined (after eliminating anti-foam, checking for tin in the bath
and on panels, addressing copper oxidation, examining rinse water
quality, dry film leaching in the alkaline etch, etc.) a leaking seal in
the air compressor was contaminating the stripper sump with minute
volumes of oil, but enough to contaminate the copper surface and inhibit
alkaline etching.
Regards,
Ted
Rudy Sedlak wrote:
> In a message dated 4.25.02 12:23:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>
>> Does anyone know of a test to look for film/stripper residue after
>> copper
>> stripping.
>
> Assume you mean after stripping film from Copper?
>
> Stripper residue is a tough one, and not real likely to be an issue.
>
> Tarnish could be another issue that is very difficult to test for
> except by sight. Depending on stripper, this could be
> significant....the clue is, if the problem gets worse as the stripper
> chemistry gets older, it is quite possibly tarnish...
>
> Film residue is the most likely residue. One way to test that is a
> good test, but, can make your test board need rework is to drop on an
> immersion plating solution. Two different ones are common. Some
> people use immersion Tin to test if the surface is clean. A drop
> should plate uniformly, and adherently. Another test is to drop on
> Silver Nitrate solution...usually use the stuff that is used for
> titration in the lab. The surface should essentially immediately turn
> black, and it should be adherent.
>
> Another residue problem that can occur, and especially in old stripper
> chemistry, is immersion Tin residues....this does not relate to the
> test above. Rather, your stripper chemistry can pickup Tin from the
> oxide on the plating on outerlayers, and redeposit this on the Copper
> next to it. The potential for this problem is magnified tremendously
> if you strip in a tank, rather than exclusively in sprays, and can be
> strongly affected by the condition of the Tin plating solution. If
> your Tin electroplating solution looks very milky, this is disperse
> Tin oxide, which co-deposits with the Tin metal, then easily dissolves
> in certain kinds of stripper chemistry, and redeposits, sometimes
> even is sprays, on the adjacent Copper.
>
> The film residues have become an especial problem in recent years, as
> the new generation of photoresists, which stick VERY well, require
> specially formulated types of stripper chemistry.
>
> I probably have told you more than you want to know, but, in case I
> haven't, you can call me to discuss it.
>
> Rudy Sedlak
> RD Chemical Company 650-962-8004
--------------191063DEE8720AB4DEFFC5E5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Steve:
<p>Another potential source of "residue" on copper surfaces during
dry film stripping is absorption of oils - often attributable to antifoam
and/or excess use of antifoam.
<br>Because copper is very oleophilic, minimal contamination may
be problematic (including fingerprints) and can contribute to a variety
of post strip processing problems; incomplete final etching ("copper spots")
being one of the more common defects. The methods suggested by Rudy
would detect this problem.
<p>As a severe (and unusual) example of oil contamination, we once encountered
a customer employing compressed air agitation to dislodge accumulated dry
film particulate in the corners of the dry film stripper spray sump.
The air was introduced when the line was idle to improve continuous
dry film particulate filtration. The customer had been employing
the process for quite some time when random copper spots began to be observed.
If the stripper was replaced, the problem disappeared; only to reoccur
in 1-2 days. To make a long story short, it was determined (after
eliminating anti-foam, checking for tin in the bath and on panels, addressing
copper oxidation, examining rinse water quality, dry film leaching in the
alkaline etch, etc.) a leaking seal in the air compressor was contaminating
the stripper sump with minute volumes of oil, but enough to contaminate
the copper surface and inhibit alkaline etching.
<p>Regards,
<br>Ted
<p>Rudy Sedlak wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>In a message dated
4.25.02 12:23:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:</font></font>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Does
anyone know of a test to look for film/stripper residue after copper</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>stripping.</font></font></blockquote>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Assume you mean after stripping film
from Copper?</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Stripper residue is a tough one, and
not real likely to be an issue.</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Tarnish could be another issue that
is very difficult to test for except by sight. Depending on
stripper, this could be significant....the clue is, if the problem gets
worse as the stripper chemistry gets older, it is quite possibly tarnish...</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Film residue is the most likely residue.
One way to test that is a good test, but, can make your test board need
rework is to drop on an immersion plating solution. Two different
ones are common. Some people use immersion Tin to test if the surface
is clean. A drop should plate uniformly, and adherently. Another
test is to drop on Silver Nitrate solution...usually use the stuff that
is used for titration in the lab. The surface should essentially
immediately turn black, and it should be adherent.</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Another residue problem that can occur,
and especially in old stripper chemistry, is immersion Tin residues....this
does not relate to the test above. Rather, your stripper chemistry
can pickup Tin from the oxide on the plating on outerlayers, and redeposit
this on the Copper next to it. The potential for this problem
is magnified tremendously if you strip in a tank, rather than exclusively
in sprays, and can be strongly affected by the condition of the Tin plating
solution. If your Tin electroplating solution looks very milky, this
is disperse Tin oxide, which co-deposits with the Tin metal, then easily
dissolves in certain kinds of stripper chemistry, and redeposits,
sometimes even is sprays, on the adjacent Copper.</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>The film residues have become an especial
problem in recent years, as the new generation of photoresists, which stick
VERY well, require specially formulated types of stripper chemistry.</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>I probably have told you more than
you want to know, but, in case I haven't, you can call me to discuss it.</font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Rudy Sedlak</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>RD Chemical Company 650-962-8004</font></font></blockquote>
</html>
--------------191063DEE8720AB4DEFFC5E5--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:58:11 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Via Plug
X-To: John Foster <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
John
The DuPont CB-100 will increase the amount of heat that can be conducted
through the barrel. My experience with it that most people overestimate
what it can do. I've done calculations that show for a 0.020" drilled hole
with 0.001" copper barrel, adding CB-100 only increases the amount of heat
by less than 5%. The reason is the CB-100 has a thermal conductivity of 5.23
W/mK vs 395 W/mK for copper. Even though CB-100 makes up the majority of
the cross sectional area, it only adds a little to the "thermal" cross
section.
I always recommend that potential users of this technology run the numbers
themselves and balance the potential cost increase with the improved
performance.
> ----------
> From: John Foster[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;John Foster
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:06 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Via Plug
>
> Hello, I am new to this listserver. I must say that it is very
> informative. I wish I had known of it long ago.
>
> I have a question about via plugging. Right now
> our board vendor is doing our via plugs with
> I guess with a standard epoxy. We are trying
> to find a solution that would give us a much
> better thermal performance.
>
> We are looking at silver epoxy and this
> material from Dupont. Does anyone know of
> some material that would give us a really good
> thermal performance. We are in a commercial
> environment. So the material does not have to
> meet industrial specs.
>
> Any input on this matter would be greatly '
> appreciated.
>
> Thank You
>
> John Foster
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:58:34 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Removal of Cured Nomenclature Ink
X-To: "Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob)" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Not chemistry, but light, specifically a laser, would be the best approach
to doing this, especially if the unwanted nomen ink is over copper.
> ----------
> From: Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob)[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob)
> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 12:44 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Removal of Cured Nomenclature Ink
>
> Hi TechNet,
>
> I have been asked what chemical(s) would be required to remove cured
> nomenclature ink (also known as silkscreen) from a bare board without
> damaging the board itself. I am assuming it is an epoxy ink, but I do not
> know the exact formulation. Any input is appreciated. I should know the
> exact formulation of the applied nomenclature ink tomorrow, but thought
> that
> maybe there is a generic answer.
>
> Thanks,
> Robert Furrow
> Printed Wiring Board Engineer
> Supply Chain Networks
> Lucent Technologies
> 978-960-3224 [log in to unmask]
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:27:30 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
X-To: Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------085A4927DF9950826CE78A20"
--------------085A4927DF9950826CE78A20
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Carl,
I quit using "freeze cans" for troubleshooting because they did not work very well particularly on
conformally coating products.
When a "thermal failure" occurs it happens at a particular temperature or during a specific temperature
change. Because polymers
require much more time to change temperatures I discovered that freeze mist would "shoot by" or run
past the thermal failure point.
It would then require a long time to stabilize the circuit and try again. I used the EXair because I
could control
the temperature change by varying the distance from the nozzle to the circuit, had an endless supply of
"cold", air and very little if any
frost/moisture on the circuit. I discovered that 90% of the thermal failures could be "found" by
recreating the thermal conditions at time of failure and gradually "bumping" the temperature around
this point. I seldom had to go more than + 20 degrees C from the estimated thermal fail point to
recreate the failure.
Conformal coatings will "hold" joints in place until a certain thermal point is reached. Usually this
is a "window" because as the coating dimensions change
the joint will "make and break" contact.
Hope this helps!
David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
Carl VanWormer wrote:
> According to the site:
> http://www.emsdiasum.com/ems/clean/duster.html
> The stuff I'm using claims "100% ozone-safe pressurized duster products".
>
> Since I turn the cans upside down (or refill my quick-freeze cans for a more
> convenient spraying position), am I being more gentle to the environment?
> If so, we can get down to the real question of "am I wrecking my electronics
> systems by using quick-freeze for troubleshooting?"
>
> Carl Van Wormer
> Cipher Systems
> 1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010
> Beaverton, OR 97006
> Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 2:52 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
>
> Bev
>
> I agree PFCs are the worst climate changers (with SF6) that exist. Some
> of them are over 10,000 times worse than CO2. As a rule of thumb, 6
> freezing cans which contain a PFC gas would have as much effect on
> climate change as a medium car over its whole lifetime (horrific
> thought). Furthermore, there will still be the contents of two of those
> cans in the atmosphere 40-odd generations from now (assuming man lives
> for another 40 generations!). However, I think most freezing cans
> contain HFC-134a, which is bad enough but not as bad as PFCs. Some may
> still contain HCFC-22 which is just as bad AND an ozone depleter, to
> boot, but is not phased out under the Montreal Protocol until 2010 (some
> countries may phase it out sooner).
>
> Brian
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------085A4927DF9950826CE78A20
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Carl,
<p>I quit using "freeze cans" for troubleshooting because they did not
work very well particularly on conformally coating products.
<p>When a "thermal failure" occurs it happens at a particular temperature
or during a specific temperature change. Because polymers
<br>require much more time to change temperatures I discovered that freeze
mist would "shoot by" or run past the thermal failure point.
<br>It would then require a long time to stabilize the circuit and try
again. I used the EXair because I could control
<br>the temperature change by varying the distance from the nozzle to the
circuit, had an endless supply of "cold", air and very little if any
<br>frost/moisture on the circuit. I discovered that 90% of the thermal
failures could be "found" by recreating the thermal conditions at time
of failure and gradually "bumping" the temperature around this point. I
seldom had to go more than <u>+</u> 20 degrees C from the estimated thermal
fail point to recreate the failure.
<p>Conformal coatings will "hold" joints in place until a certain thermal
point is reached. Usually this is a "window" because as the coating dimensions
change
<br>the joint will "make and break" contact.
<p>Hope this helps!
<p>David A. Douthit
<br>Manager
<br>LoCan LLC
<br>
<p>Carl VanWormer wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>According to the site:
<br><a href="http://www.emsdiasum.com/ems/clean/duster.html">http://www.emsdiasum.com/ems/clean/duster.html</a>
<br>The stuff I'm using claims "100% ozone-safe pressurized duster products".
<p>Since I turn the cans upside down (or refill my quick-freeze cans for
a more
<br>convenient spraying position), am I being more gentle to the environment?
<br>If so, we can get down to the real question of "am I wrecking my electronics
<br>systems by using quick-freeze for troubleshooting?"
<p>Carl Van Wormer
<br>Cipher Systems
<br>1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010
<br>Beaverton, OR 97006
<br>Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550
<p>-----Original Message-----
<br>From: Brian Ellis [<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]
<br>Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 2:52 AM
<br>To: [log in to unmask]
<br>Subject: Re: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
<p>Bev
<p>I agree PFCs are the worst climate changers (with SF6) that exist. Some
<br>of them are over 10,000 times worse than CO2. As a rule of thumb, 6
<br>freezing cans which contain a PFC gas would have as much effect on
<br>climate change as a medium car over its whole lifetime (horrific
<br>thought). Furthermore, there will still be the contents of two of those
<br>cans in the atmosphere 40-odd generations from now (assuming man lives
<br>for another 40 generations!). However, I think most freezing cans
<br>contain HFC-134a, which is bad enough but not as bad as PFCs. Some
may
<br>still contain HCFC-22 which is just as bad AND an ozone depleter, to
<br>boot, but is not phased out under the Montreal Protocol until 2010
(some
<br>countries may phase it out sooner).
<p>Brian
<p>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
<br>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in
<br>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
<br>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
<br>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet Digest
<br>Search the archives of previous posts at: <a href="http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archives</a>
<br>Please visit IPC web site <a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>
for additional
<br>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
<br>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</blockquote>
</html>
--------------085A4927DF9950826CE78A20--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:21:33 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Carl,
PFCs and HFC have no chlorine so they are not ozone depleters, but that
doesn't mean they are not global warmers. I do not have the time to look at
your particular material right now. Sorry.
regards,
Bev Christian
Research in Motion
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl VanWormer [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: April 26, 2002 10:47 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
According to the site:
http://www.emsdiasum.com/ems/clean/duster.html
The stuff I'm using claims "100% ozone-safe pressurized duster products".
Since I turn the cans upside down (or refill my quick-freeze cans for a more
convenient spraying position), am I being more gentle to the environment?
If so, we can get down to the real question of "am I wrecking my electronics
systems by using quick-freeze for troubleshooting?"
Carl Van Wormer
Cipher Systems
1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010
Beaverton, OR 97006
Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 2:52 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Freeze Spray Trouble Shooting
Bev
I agree PFCs are the worst climate changers (with SF6) that exist. Some
of them are over 10,000 times worse than CO2. As a rule of thumb, 6
freezing cans which contain a PFC gas would have as much effect on
climate change as a medium car over its whole lifetime (horrific
thought). Furthermore, there will still be the contents of two of those
cans in the atmosphere 40-odd generations from now (assuming man lives
for another 40 generations!). However, I think most freezing cans
contain HFC-134a, which is bad enough but not as bad as PFCs. Some may
still contain HCFC-22 which is just as bad AND an ozone depleter, to
boot, but is not phased out under the Montreal Protocol until 2010 (some
countries may phase it out sooner).
Brian
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:36:06 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Houston, Terri" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Houston, Terri" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Microvias and rigid-flex in one board shop?
Hi folks,
I'm looking for a board shop with actual experience in building a 14+ layer,
rigid-flex board that has microvias in the rigid sections.
It seems the combination of these two features is hard to find at one
supplier, even though I'm only looking for a small quantity of prototypes.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated--even self-marketing would be
accepted (off TechNet, please).
Thanks in advance,
Terri
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 18:05:27 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: test for film residue
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="----=_NextPartTM-000-b2028f7b-5937-11d6-b576-00508bf7d80d"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------=_NextPartTM-000-b2028f7b-5937-11d6-b576-00508bf7d80d
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1ED44.903723CE"
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1ED44.903723CE
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Steve,
You might try looking at the panels under UV light or a water break test.
Hans
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Stern [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 11:47 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] test for film residue
Steve:
Another potential source of "residue" on copper surfaces during dry film
stripping is absorption of oils - often attributable to antifoam and/or
excess use of antifoam.
Because copper is very oleophilic, minimal contamination may be problematic
(including fingerprints) and can contribute to a variety of post strip
processing problems; incomplete final etching ("copper spots") being one of
the more common defects. The methods suggested by Rudy would detect this
problem.
As a severe (and unusual) example of oil contamination, we once encountered
a customer employing compressed air agitation to dislodge accumulated dry
film particulate in the corners of the dry film stripper spray sump. The
air was introduced when the line was idle to improve continuous dry film
particulate filtration. The customer had been employing the process for
quite some time when random copper spots began to be observed. If the
stripper was replaced, the problem disappeared; only to reoccur in 1-2 days.
To make a long story short, it was determined (after eliminating anti-foam,
checking for tin in the bath and on panels, addressing copper oxidation,
examining rinse water quality, dry film leaching in the alkaline etch, etc.)
a leaking seal in the air compressor was contaminating the stripper sump
with minute volumes of oil, but enough to contaminate the copper surface and
inhibit alkaline etching.
Regards,
Ted
Rudy Sedlak wrote:
In a message dated 4.25.02 12:23:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:
Does anyone know of a test to look for film/stripper residue after copper
stripping.
Assume you mean after stripping film from Copper?
Stripper residue is a tough one, and not real likely to be an issue.
Tarnish could be another issue that is very difficult to test for except by
sight. Depending on stripper, this could be significant....the clue is, if
the problem gets worse as the stripper chemistry gets older, it is quite
possibly tarnish...
Film residue is the most likely residue. One way to test that is a good
test, but, can make your test board need rework is to drop on an immersion
plating solution. Two different ones are common. Some people use immersion
Tin to test if the surface is clean. A drop should plate uniformly, and
adherently. Another test is to drop on Silver Nitrate solution...usually
use the stuff that is used for titration in the lab. The surface should
essentially immediately turn black, and it should be adherent.
Another residue problem that can occur, and especially in old stripper
chemistry, is immersion Tin residues....this does not relate to the test
above. Rather, your stripper chemistry can pickup Tin from the oxide on the
plating on outerlayers, and redeposit this on the Copper next to it. The
potential for this problem is magnified tremendously if you strip in a tank,
rather than exclusively in sprays, and can be strongly affected by the
condition of the Tin plating solution. If your Tin electroplating solution
looks very milky, this is disperse Tin oxide, which co-deposits with the Tin
metal, then easily dissolves in certain kinds of stripper chemistry, and
redeposits, sometimes even is sprays, on the adjacent Copper.
The film residues have become an especial problem in recent years, as the
new generation of photoresists, which stick VERY well, require specially
formulated types of stripper chemistry.
I probably have told you more than you want to know, but, in case I haven't,
you can call me to discuss it.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company 650-962-8004
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1ED44.903723CE
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=599240317-26042002><FONT color=#0000ff>Hi
Steve,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=599240317-26042002><FONT
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=599240317-26042002><FONT color=#0000ff>You might try looking at
the panels under UV light or a water break test.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=599240317-26042002><FONT
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=599240317-26042002><FONT color=#0000ff>Hans</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=599240317-26042002><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><BR><FONT
face=Verdana>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Verdana>Hans M. Hinners</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>Electronics
Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center
(WR-ALC/LUGE)</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>226 Cochran Street</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Verdana>Robins AFB GA 31098-1622</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face=Verdana><A
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A></FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT face=Verdana>Com: (478) 926 - 5224</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Verdana>Fax: (478) 926 - 4911</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>DSN Prefix: 468</FONT> </P></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ted Stern
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 26, 2002 11:47
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] test for film
residue<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Steve:
<P>Another potential source of "residue" on copper surfaces during dry
film stripping is absorption of oils - often attributable to antifoam and/or
excess use of antifoam. <BR>Because copper is very oleophilic, minimal
contamination may be problematic (including fingerprints) and can contribute
to a variety of post strip processing problems; incomplete final etching
("copper spots") being one of the more common defects. The methods
suggested by Rudy would detect this problem.
<P>As a severe (and unusual) example of oil contamination, we once encountered
a customer employing compressed air agitation to dislodge accumulated dry film
particulate in the corners of the dry film stripper spray sump. The air
was introduced when the line was idle to improve continuous dry film
particulate filtration. The customer had been employing the
process for quite some time when random copper spots began to be
observed. If the stripper was replaced, the problem disappeared; only to
reoccur in 1-2 days. To make a long story short, it was determined
(after eliminating anti-foam, checking for tin in the bath and on panels,
addressing copper oxidation, examining rinse water quality, dry film leaching
in the alkaline etch, etc.) a leaking seal in the air compressor was
contaminating the stripper sump with minute volumes of oil, but enough to
contaminate the copper surface and inhibit alkaline etching.
<P>Regards, <BR>Ted
<P>Rudy Sedlak wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE"><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>In a message dated
4.25.02 12:23:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:</FONT></FONT> <BR> <BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE"><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>Does anyone know of a test to
look for film/stripper residue after copper</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial><FONT size=-1>stripping.</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>Assume you mean after stripping film from
Copper?</FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>Stripper residue is a tough one, and not
real likely to be an issue.</FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>Tarnish could be another issue that is
very difficult to test for except by sight. Depending on
stripper, this could be significant....the clue is, if the problem gets
worse as the stripper chemistry gets older, it is quite possibly
tarnish...</FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>Film residue is the most likely
residue. One way to test that is a good test, but, can make your test
board need rework is to drop on an immersion plating solution. Two
different ones are common. Some people use immersion Tin to test if
the surface is clean. A drop should plate uniformly, and
adherently. Another test is to drop on Silver Nitrate
solution...usually use the stuff that is used for titration in the
lab. The surface should essentially immediately turn black, and it
should be adherent.</FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>Another residue problem that can occur,
and especially in old stripper chemistry, is immersion Tin residues....this
does not relate to the test above. Rather, your stripper chemistry can
pickup Tin from the oxide on the plating on outerlayers, and redeposit this
on the Copper next to it. The potential for this problem is
magnified tremendously if you strip in a tank, rather than exclusively in
sprays, and can be strongly affected by the condition of the Tin plating
solution. If your Tin electroplating solution looks very milky, this
is disperse Tin oxide, which co-deposits with the Tin metal, then easily
dissolves in certain kinds of stripper chemistry, and redeposits,
sometimes even is sprays, on the adjacent Copper.</FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>The film residues have become an especial
problem in recent years, as the new generation of photoresists, which stick
VERY well, require specially formulated types of stripper
chemistry.</FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>I probably have told you more than you
want to know, but, in case I haven't, you can call me to discuss
it.</FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>Rudy Sedlak</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial><FONT size=-1>RD Chemical Company
650-962-8004</FONT></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1ED44.903723CE--
------=_NextPartTM-000-b2028f7b-5937-11d6-b576-00508bf7d80d--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:25:40 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Joseph Spicuzza <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Joseph Spicuzza <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microvias and rigid-flex in one board shop?
X-To: "Houston, Terri" <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Our shop may be able to fabricate this, but we need more info.
Contact me and I'll forward you to the fab team.
Joseph Spicuzza
Quality Assurance Manager
Advanced Interconnect Products Division
Compunetics, Inc.
PH: 412 858-6166
FX: 412 373-8060
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Houston, Terri
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 12:36 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Microvias and rigid-flex in one board shop?
Hi folks,
I'm looking for a board shop with actual experience in building a 14+ layer,
rigid-flex board that has microvias in the rigid sections.
It seems the combination of these two features is hard to find at one
supplier, even though I'm only looking for a small quantity of prototypes.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated--even self-marketing would be
accepted (off TechNet, please).
Thanks in advance,
Terri
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:26:56 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Senju sparkle noclean paste
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Does anyone have experience using this paste. I was
told that it is unstable unless running in N2
environment.
Rgds,
Peter
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:54:22 -0700
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ahne Oosterhof <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 0402 stencil apperture design
X-To: peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
X-cc: Jim <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Peter,
At Plexus they have published a rather extensive report on the causes of
tombstoning. It included some remarks on the incidence of solder balls. Both
problem areas are partially caused by pad design on the board and aperture
design in stencils. (Some say the most significant factors for tombstoning
are pick-and-place accuracy and oven temperature profile.)
To minimize tombstoning the report indicates that pad design has a minimal
impact when using 0402-s, but for 0201-s you want to stay close to the
'normal' size for pad design.
To minimize solder balls it is recommended to change stencil apertures to
home plates. My personal preference (and that of some of our customers) is
to change the aperture to an oval, which has the effect of reducing excess
solder in all four corners of the pads. Sometimes in addition the overall
size is reduced by 1 or 2 mil.
An additional advantage is that the OVAL is a Gerber shape improving data
compactness, data sharing and interpretation reliability and it means that
for a single component there are no 'left' and 'right' or 'top' and 'bottom'
apertures (or D-codes).
Have fun,
Ahne.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of peter lee
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 07:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] 0402 stencil apperture design
Has anyone used a "D"-shape 0402 land pattern on their
design?
The pad dimensions are 18x19mils (semi-circle on the
other ends) and 16mil spacing between the 2 pads.
What would be the stencil apperture recommendation for
the above design? We've used round pads for 0402s and
15% apperture reduction before.
Rgds,
Peter
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:05:08 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Tuan Bui <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Immersion Gold Vs Immersion Tin for 0201 landpatterns
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi George,
The Immersion Gold process that the PCB vendor stated that the Immersion
gold (7-10 micron) over nickel over copper. The Immersion Tin process, as
you have mentioned, is about 44 micron. It is good to hear that the
immersion tin process can be easily/inexpensive reworked when its shelf
live expires.
BTW, thanks for your input.
Tuan Bui
Proc Dev Eng
Conexant Systems Inc.
George Milad
<[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask]
Sent by: TechNet cc:
<[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [TN] Immersion Gold Vs Immersion Tin for 0201 landpatterns
04/26/2002 08:47
AM
Please respond to
"TechNet E-Mail
Forum."; Please
respond to Gmilad
Tuan,
Could you clarify the "Immersion Gold" process that you are using. Is it
Immersion gold over copper or it immersion gold over nickel over copper?
Immersion Tin is a viable alternative for your application. However the
thickness required will much higher than the 7 - 8 uins that you are
presently using for gold, more like 30 - 40 uins. Tin is realtive
inexpensive and can be easily reworked if shelf life becomes an issue.
George Milad
HDI Consulting
Chairman IPC Plating Committee.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:41:58 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Phil Bavaro <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Bavaro <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Senju sparkle noclean paste
X-To: peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
We have about ten years of experience using Senju solderpaste without any
issues.
You have not stated what specific paste part number you are referring to.
And I am not sure I know what you mean by solderpaste being described as
unstable.
Phil
At 10:26 AM 4/26/2002 -0700, peter lee wrote:
>Does anyone have experience using this paste. I was
>told that it is unstable unless running in N2
>environment.
>
>Rgds,
>Peter
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
>http://games.yahoo.com/
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
>SET Technet NOMAIL
>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
>[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
>Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
>Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:10:41 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Steve Kelly <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve Kelly <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: test for film residue
X-To: Ted Stern <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_08F5_01C1ED34.88AD36E0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_08F5_01C1ED34.88AD36E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
We etch in Ferric chloride so do not use any tin chemistry - however Rudy's
comments are interesting - we do have an immersion tin line so we can easily
do this test. Thanks Steve Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Ted Stern
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 11:47 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] test for film residue
Steve:
Another potential source of "residue" on copper surfaces during dry film
stripping is absorption of oils - often attributable to antifoam and/or
excess use of antifoam.
Because copper is very oleophilic, minimal contamination may be
problematic (including fingerprints) and can contribute to a variety of post
strip processing problems; incomplete final etching ("copper spots") being
one of the more common defects. The methods suggested by Rudy would detect
this problem.
As a severe (and unusual) example of oil contamination, we once
encountered a customer employing compressed air agitation to dislodge
accumulated dry film particulate in the corners of the dry film stripper
spray sump. The air was introduced when the line was idle to improve
continuous dry film particulate filtration. The customer had been
employing the process for quite some time when random copper spots began to
be observed. If the stripper was replaced, the problem disappeared; only to
reoccur in 1-2 days. To make a long story short, it was determined (after
eliminating anti-foam, checking for tin in the bath and on panels,
addressing copper oxidation, examining rinse water quality, dry film
leaching in the alkaline etch, etc.) a leaking seal in the air compressor
was contaminating the stripper sump with minute volumes of oil, but enough
to contaminate the copper surface and inhibit alkaline etching.
Regards,
Ted
Rudy Sedlak wrote:
In a message dated 4.25.02 12:23:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Does anyone know of a test to look for film/stripper residue after
copper
stripping.
Assume you mean after stripping film from Copper?
Stripper residue is a tough one, and not real likely to be an issue.
Tarnish could be another issue that is very difficult to test for except
by sight. Depending on stripper, this could be significant....the clue is,
if the problem gets worse as the stripper chemistry gets older, it is quite
possibly tarnish...
Film residue is the most likely residue. One way to test that is a good
test, but, can make your test board need rework is to drop on an immersion
plating solution. Two different ones are common. Some people use immersion
Tin to test if the surface is clean. A drop should plate uniformly, and
adherently. Another test is to drop on Silver Nitrate solution...usually
use the stuff that is used for titration in the lab. The surface should
essentially immediately turn black, and it should be adherent.
Another residue problem that can occur, and especially in old stripper
chemistry, is immersion Tin residues....this does not relate to the test
above. Rather, your stripper chemistry can pickup Tin from the oxide on the
plating on outerlayers, and redeposit this on the Copper next to it. The
potential for this problem is magnified tremendously if you strip in a tank,
rather than exclusively in sprays, and can be strongly affected by the
condition of the Tin plating solution. If your Tin electroplating solution
looks very milky, this is disperse Tin oxide, which co-deposits with the Tin
metal, then easily dissolves in certain kinds of stripper chemistry, and
redeposits, sometimes even is sprays, on the adjacent Copper.
The film residues have become an especial problem in recent years, as
the new generation of photoresists, which stick VERY well, require specially
formulated types of stripper chemistry.
I probably have told you more than you want to know, but, in case I
haven't, you can call me to discuss it.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company 650-962-8004
------=_NextPart_000_08F5_01C1ED34.88AD36E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D087020919-26042002>We=20
etch in Ferric chloride so do not use any tin chemistry - however Rudy's =
comments are interesting - we do have an immersion tin line so we can =
easily do=20
this test. Thanks Steve Kelly</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ted Stern<BR><B>Sent:</B> =
Friday,=20
April 26, 2002 11:47 AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:=20
[TN] test for film residue<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>Steve:=20
<P>Another potential source of "residue" on copper surfaces =
during dry=20
film stripping is absorption of oils - often attributable to antifoam =
and/or=20
excess use of antifoam. <BR>Because copper is very oleophilic, =
minimal=20
contamination may be problematic (including fingerprints) and can =
contribute=20
to a variety of post strip processing problems; incomplete final =
etching=20
("copper spots") being one of the more common defects. The =
methods=20
suggested by Rudy would detect this problem.=20
<P>As a severe (and unusual) example of oil contamination, we once =
encountered=20
a customer employing compressed air agitation to dislodge accumulated =
dry film=20
particulate in the corners of the dry film stripper spray sump. =
The air=20
was introduced when the line was idle to improve continuous dry =
film=20
particulate filtration. The customer had been employing =
the=20
process for quite some time when random copper spots began to be=20
observed. If the stripper was replaced, the problem disappeared; =
only to=20
reoccur in 1-2 days. To make a long story short, it was =
determined=20
(after eliminating anti-foam, checking for tin in the bath and on =
panels,=20
addressing copper oxidation, examining rinse water quality, dry film =
leaching=20
in the alkaline etch, etc.) a leaking seal in the air compressor was=20
contaminating the stripper sump with minute volumes of oil, but enough =
to=20
contaminate the copper surface and inhibit alkaline etching.=20
<P>Regards, <BR>Ted=20
<P>Rudy Sedlak wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>In a =
message dated=20
4.25.02 12:23:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:</FONT></FONT> <BR> <BR> =20
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Does anyone know of =
a test to=20
look for film/stripper residue after copper</FONT></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>stripping.</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Assume you mean after =
stripping film from=20
Copper?</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Stripper residue is a tough =
one, and not=20
real likely to be an issue.</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Tarnish could be another issue =
that is=20
very difficult to test for except by sight. Depending on =
stripper, this could be significant....the clue is, if the problem =
gets=20
worse as the stripper chemistry gets older, it is quite possibly=20
tarnish...</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Film residue is the most =
likely=20
residue. One way to test that is a good test, but, can make =
your test=20
board need rework is to drop on an immersion plating solution. =
Two=20
different ones are common. Some people use immersion Tin to =
test if=20
the surface is clean. A drop should plate uniformly, and=20
adherently. Another test is to drop on Silver Nitrate=20
solution...usually use the stuff that is used for titration in the=20
lab. The surface should essentially immediately turn black, =
and it=20
should be adherent.</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Another residue problem that =
can occur,=20
and especially in old stripper chemistry, is immersion Tin =
residues....this=20
does not relate to the test above. Rather, your stripper =
chemistry can=20
pickup Tin from the oxide on the plating on outerlayers, and =
redeposit this=20
on the Copper next to it. The potential for this problem =
is=20
magnified tremendously if you strip in a tank, rather than =
exclusively in=20
sprays, and can be strongly affected by the condition of the Tin =
plating=20
solution. If your Tin electroplating solution looks very =
milky, this=20
is disperse Tin oxide, which co-deposits with the Tin metal, then =
easily=20
dissolves in certain kinds of stripper chemistry, and =
redeposits,=20
sometimes even is sprays, on the adjacent Copper.</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>The film residues have become =
an especial=20
problem in recent years, as the new generation of photoresists, =
which stick=20
VERY well, require specially formulated types of stripper=20
chemistry.</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>I probably have told you more =
than you=20
want to know, but, in case I haven't, you can call me to discuss=20
it.</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Rudy Sedlak</FONT></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>RD Chemical Company=20
650-962-8004</FONT></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_08F5_01C1ED34.88AD36E0--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:13:56 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Steve Kelly <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve Kelly <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: test for film residue
X-To: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_08FB_01C1ED34.FC8C4CE0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_08FB_01C1ED34.FC8C4CE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Water break to us does not seem sensitive enough especially when we are
looking at 50-75 micron lines and spaces - will check out the UV light idea.
Thanks. Steve Kelly
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Hinners Hans M Civ
WRALC/LUGE
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 1:05 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] test for film residue
Hi Steve,
You might try looking at the panels under UV light or a water break test.
Hans
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Stern [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 11:47 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] test for film residue
Steve:
Another potential source of "residue" on copper surfaces during dry
film stripping is absorption of oils - often attributable to antifoam and/or
excess use of antifoam.
Because copper is very oleophilic, minimal contamination may be
problematic (including fingerprints) and can contribute to a variety of post
strip processing problems; incomplete final etching ("copper spots") being
one of the more common defects. The methods suggested by Rudy would detect
this problem.
As a severe (and unusual) example of oil contamination, we once
encountered a customer employing compressed air agitation to dislodge
accumulated dry film particulate in the corners of the dry film stripper
spray sump. The air was introduced when the line was idle to improve
continuous dry film particulate filtration. The customer had been
employing the process for quite some time when random copper spots began to
be observed. If the stripper was replaced, the problem disappeared; only to
reoccur in 1-2 days. To make a long story short, it was determined (after
eliminating anti-foam, checking for tin in the bath and on panels,
addressing copper oxidation, examining rinse water quality, dry film
leaching in the alkaline etch, etc.) a leaking seal in the air compressor
was contaminating the stripper sump with minute volumes of oil, but enough
to contaminate the copper surface and inhibit alkaline etching.
Regards,
Ted
Rudy Sedlak wrote:
In a message dated 4.25.02 12:23:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Does anyone know of a test to look for film/stripper residue after
copper
stripping.
Assume you mean after stripping film from Copper?
Stripper residue is a tough one, and not real likely to be an issue.
Tarnish could be another issue that is very difficult to test for
except by sight. Depending on stripper, this could be significant....the
clue is, if the problem gets worse as the stripper chemistry gets older, it
is quite possibly tarnish...
Film residue is the most likely residue. One way to test that is a
good test, but, can make your test board need rework is to drop on an
immersion plating solution. Two different ones are common. Some people use
immersion Tin to test if the surface is clean. A drop should plate
uniformly, and adherently. Another test is to drop on Silver Nitrate
solution...usually use the stuff that is used for titration in the lab. The
surface should essentially immediately turn black, and it should be
adherent.
Another residue problem that can occur, and especially in old stripper
chemistry, is immersion Tin residues....this does not relate to the test
above. Rather, your stripper chemistry can pickup Tin from the oxide on the
plating on outerlayers, and redeposit this on the Copper next to it. The
potential for this problem is magnified tremendously if you strip in a tank,
rather than exclusively in sprays, and can be strongly affected by the
condition of the Tin plating solution. If your Tin electroplating solution
looks very milky, this is disperse Tin oxide, which co-deposits with the Tin
metal, then easily dissolves in certain kinds of stripper chemistry, and
redeposits, sometimes even is sprays, on the adjacent Copper.
The film residues have become an especial problem in recent years, as
the new generation of photoresists, which stick VERY well, require specially
formulated types of stripper chemistry.
I probably have told you more than you want to know, but, in case I
haven't, you can call me to discuss it.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company 650-962-8004
------=_NextPart_000_08FB_01C1ED34.FC8C4CE0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D750461219-26042002>Water=20
break to us does not seem sensitive enough especially when we are =
looking at=20
50-75 micron lines and spaces - will check out the UV light idea. =
Thanks. Steve=20
Kelly</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Hinners Hans M Civ=20
WRALC/LUGE<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 26, 2002 1:05 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] test for film=20
residue<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D599240317-26042002><FONT color=3D#0000ff>Hi=20
Steve,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D599240317-26042002><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D599240317-26042002><FONT color=3D#0000ff>You might =
try looking=20
at the panels under UV light or a water break =
test.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D599240317-26042002><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D599240317-26042002><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff>Hans</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D599240317-26042002><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff></FONT><BR><FONT=20
face=3DVerdana>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3DVerdana>Hans M. Hinners</FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DVerdana>Electronics=20
Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DVerdana>Warner Robins - Air Logistics =
Center=20
(WR-ALC/LUGE)</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DVerdana>226 Cochran =
Street</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DVerdana>Robins AFB GA 31098-1622</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face=3DVerdana><A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]
mil</A></FONT>=20
</P>
<P><FONT face=3DVerdana>Com: (478) 926 - 5224</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
face=3DVerdana>Fax: (478) 926 - 4911</FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>DSN Prefix: 468</FONT> </P></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ted Stern=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 26, 2002 =
11:47=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] test =
for film=20
residue<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Steve:=20
<P>Another potential source of "residue" on copper surfaces =
during dry=20
film stripping is absorption of oils - often attributable to =
antifoam and/or=20
excess use of antifoam. <BR>Because copper is very oleophilic, =
minimal=20
contamination may be problematic (including fingerprints) and can =
contribute=20
to a variety of post strip processing problems; incomplete final =
etching=20
("copper spots") being one of the more common defects. The =
methods=20
suggested by Rudy would detect this problem.=20
<P>As a severe (and unusual) example of oil contamination, we once=20
encountered a customer employing compressed air agitation to =
dislodge=20
accumulated dry film particulate in the corners of the dry film =
stripper=20
spray sump. The air was introduced when the line was =
idle to=20
improve continuous dry film particulate filtration. The =
customer=20
had been employing the process for quite some time when random =
copper spots=20
began to be observed. If the stripper was replaced, the =
problem=20
disappeared; only to reoccur in 1-2 days. To make a long story =
short,=20
it was determined (after eliminating anti-foam, checking for tin in =
the bath=20
and on panels, addressing copper oxidation, examining rinse water =
quality,=20
dry film leaching in the alkaline etch, etc.) a leaking seal in the =
air=20
compressor was contaminating the stripper sump with minute volumes =
of oil,=20
but enough to contaminate the copper surface and inhibit alkaline =
etching.=20
<P>Regards, <BR>Ted=20
<P>Rudy Sedlak wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>In a =
message dated=20
4.25.02 12:23:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask]
writes:</FONT></FONT> <BR> <BR> =20
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Does anyone know =
of a test to=20
look for film/stripper residue after copper</FONT></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D-1>stripping.</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Assume you mean after =
stripping film=20
from Copper?</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Stripper residue is a tough =
one, and not=20
real likely to be an issue.</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Tarnish could be another =
issue that is=20
very difficult to test for except by sight. Depending =
on=20
stripper, this could be significant....the clue is, if the problem =
gets=20
worse as the stripper chemistry gets older, it is quite possibly=20
tarnish...</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Film residue is the most =
likely=20
residue. One way to test that is a good test, but, can make =
your=20
test board need rework is to drop on an immersion plating =
solution. =20
Two different ones are common. Some people use immersion Tin =
to test=20
if the surface is clean. A drop should plate uniformly, and=20
adherently. Another test is to drop on Silver Nitrate=20
solution...usually use the stuff that is used for titration in the =
lab. The surface should essentially immediately turn black, =
and it=20
should be adherent.</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Another residue problem that =
can occur,=20
and especially in old stripper chemistry, is immersion Tin=20
residues....this does not relate to the test above. Rather, =
your=20
stripper chemistry can pickup Tin from the oxide on the plating on =
outerlayers, and redeposit this on the Copper next to =
it. The=20
potential for this problem is magnified tremendously if you strip =
in a=20
tank, rather than exclusively in sprays, and can be strongly =
affected by=20
the condition of the Tin plating solution. If your Tin=20
electroplating solution looks very milky, this is disperse Tin =
oxide,=20
which co-deposits with the Tin metal, then easily dissolves in =
certain=20
kinds of stripper chemistry, and redeposits, sometimes even =
is=20
sprays, on the adjacent Copper.</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>The film residues have =
become an=20
especial problem in recent years, as the new generation of =
photoresists,=20
which stick VERY well, require specially formulated types of =
stripper=20
chemistry.</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>I probably have told you =
more than you=20
want to know, but, in case I haven't, you can call me to discuss=20
it.</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Rudy Sedlak</FONT></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>RD Chemical Company=20
=
650-962-8004</FONT></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BO=
DY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_08FB_01C1ED34.FC8C4CE0--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:51:28 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microvias and rigid-flex in one board shop?
X-To: [log in to unmask]
Terri,
Don't mean to barge in like this but in the "good old" days of wine, roses,
and the MX missile system as line was drawn in the sand, or rigid flex as it
was. The MX never flew because it had a total of 79 layers of rigid flex
circuitry. One supporting board had 22 layers and continually failed.
It delaminated in several ways and areas. TMA analysis revealed delamination
way below expectations due to the acrylic adhesive used then. Later, after
the program was scrapped, folks like Marty Jawitz (anyone remember Marty) at
Litton Guidance Systems came up with a requirement limiting all rigid flex
designs to 11 layers.
Have some pretty ugly pictures from that era. Probably you and others have
answers overcoming the adhesive problem, cold flowing at room temperature
(Tg of about 70 or so F.). Sure like to get updated on what those answers
might be.
MoonMan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:10:03 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Roger Stoops <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Roger Stoops <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 0402 stencil apperture design
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
If memory serves me right (and it normally does not), there was an article
published some years ago that championed oval pads for 0402s. I want to say
somewhere around '92 or '93. (0201s were probably new at that time to the
masses.) I want to say that it was Motorola(tm) that did the studies, and
oval pads and stencil apertures seemed to solve many manufacturing problems
for them. I'll have to rummage through my files one day and find it.
Can not wait until I get to try my hand at some of that itty-bitty stuff,
jealous of those that do...
Best Regards,
Roger M. Stoops, CID [log in to unmask]
TRIMBLE NAVIGATION LIMITED
Engineering and Construction Division
5475 Kellenburger Rd.
Dayton, OH 45424-1099 USA
Telephone: 937 233 8921 800 538 7800 ext. 288
Facsimile: 937 233 7511
http://www.trimble.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ahne Oosterhof [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 1:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] 0402 stencil aperture design
Hi Peter,
At Plexus they have published a rather extensive report on the causes of
tombstoning. It included some remarks on the incidence of solder balls. Both
problem areas are partially caused by pad design on the board and aperture
design in stencils. (Some say the most significant factors for tombstoning
are pick-and-place accuracy and oven temperature profile.)
To minimize tombstoning the report indicates that pad design has a minimal
impact when using 0402-s, but for 0201-s you want to stay close to the
'normal' size for pad design.
To minimize solder balls it is recommended to change stencil apertures to
home plates. My personal preference (and that of some of our customers) is
to change the aperture to an oval, which has the effect of reducing excess
solder in all four corners of the pads. Sometimes in addition the overall
size is reduced by 1 or 2 mil.
An additional advantage is that the OVAL is a Gerber shape improving data
compactness, data sharing and interpretation reliability and it means that
for a single component there are no 'left' and 'right' or 'top' and 'bottom'
apertures (or D-codes).
Have fun,
Ahne.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of peter lee
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 07:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] 0402 stencil apperture design
Has anyone used a "D"-shape 0402 land pattern on their
design?
The pad dimensions are 18x19mils (semi-circle on the
other ends) and 16mil spacing between the 2 pads.
What would be the stencil apperture recommendation for
the above design? We've used round pads for 0402s and
15% apperture reduction before.
Rgds,
Peter
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:27:44 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microvias and rigid-flex in one board shop?
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
hi,
you might be interested in the picture at http://www.af.mil/photos/May1998/0430peacek.jpg
there might not have been rigid-flex circuits in it, but it is 'flying'. and, i hope we won't have to quibble about 'mx,'being renamed 'peacekeeper'.
phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 12:51 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Microvias and rigid-flex in one board shop?
Terri,
Don't mean to barge in like this but in the "good old" days of wine, roses,
and the MX missile system as line was drawn in the sand, or rigid flex as it
was. The MX never flew because it had a total of 79 layers of rigid flex
circuitry. One supporting board had 22 layers and continually failed.
It delaminated in several ways and areas. TMA analysis revealed delamination
way below expectations due to the acrylic adhesive used then. Later, after
the program was scrapped, folks like Marty Jawitz (anyone remember Marty) at
Litton Guidance Systems came up with a requirement limiting all rigid flex
designs to 11 layers.
Have some pretty ugly pictures from that era. Probably you and others have
answers overcoming the adhesive problem, cold flowing at room temperature
(Tg of about 70 or so F.). Sure like to get updated on what those answers
might be.
MoonMan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:37:13 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microvias and rigid-flex in one board shop?
X-To: [log in to unmask]
She's a beauty and doesn't appear to be coming down on friendlies as the MX
often appeared to be. Trident never used one ounce of flex or rigid flex in
any of it's multiple warhead systems. I can't remember a failure from the
date Polaris started it all, or was that the second one after?
Always been a flex advocate since the early '70's. Just gotta know where to
draw the line and know what works under what conditions. Hell, it's the same
old story - a fight for love and glory and justifying one's existence and
the ability to wipe out someone else's.
MoonMan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:13:48 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Sean Hill <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Sean Hill <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microvias and rigid-flex in one board shop?
X-To: "Houston, Terri" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Terri,
Try Cirrex Corp in Santa Clara,CA 408-988-3980
-----Original Message-----
From: Houston, Terri [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 9:36 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Microvias and rigid-flex in one board shop?
Hi folks,
I'm looking for a board shop with actual experience in building a 14+ layer,
rigid-flex board that has microvias in the rigid sections.
It seems the combination of these two features is hard to find at one
supplier, even though I'm only looking for a small quantity of prototypes.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated--even self-marketing would be
accepted (off TechNet, please).
Thanks in advance,
Terri
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:51:16 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Seth Goodman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Philips Signetics SCC 68692 Dual UART
X-To: Dennis Petrosky <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1ED42.94B55220"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1ED42.94B55220
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Dennis,
I haven't used this part since around the date code on your earlier ones,
but this sure has the smell of a timing problem. It could be that Philips
changed the process the die is made on, which can easily change the timing
and/or the driver output impedance. Either of these can lead to setup
violations or bus contention. Assuming that the original designer did his
homework on the timing, I'd look for changes to the timing specs or output
drive capability of the newer chips. Another possibility that is less
palatable is that there was a timing problem all along, but you have managed
to stay just this side of failure until the part changed slightly. This is
harder to find since you have to review the whole timing analysis.
Has anything else on this bus changed, such as bus loading (more memory) or
a change in the decoding scheme? Assuming there is a processor in this
system, has the die revision changed on that? As a final thought, check the
errata sheets on the older UART's. It is possible that Philips fixed some
bugs in the die that your software people originally had to work around and
the workaround is now causing the problem.
Good luck!
Regards,
Seth Goodman
Goodman Associates, LLC
tel 608.833.9933
fax 608.833.9966
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Dennis Petrosky
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:54 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Philips Signetics SCC 68692 Dual UART
For the Philips Signetics Dual UART, P/N SCC 68692 has anyone seen the
following problems with newer parts. We don't seem to have problems with
older parts, 1994 date code. We have the problems with newer parts 2000 and
2001 parts. We don't know where the date change actually occurred. The
problems don't happen 100% of the time on the new parts. Temperature seems
to affect it. The problem occurrs more often at higher temperatures.
The problems are:
1. The baud rate is wrong by a factor of 16. If you select 19.2K baud
for example, the part tries for 307K baud.
2. The part drops bits on the output data and requires 3 tries on any
RS232 input to get the correct character. For instance, if you are pressing
a series of 1's on the keyboard, then press 2, it will take 3 presses of 2
before the 2 is actually outputed on the UART. The problem seems to be in
changing bits on the output word from low to high. If a bit is high and is
intended to be high, it will stay high. If a bit is low and is intended to
stay low, it will stay low. If a bit is high and needs to go low, it will
go low on the first key press. If a bit is low and needs to go high, it
will take 3 key presses to go high.
Dennis Petrosky
Circuit Card Manufacturing Engineer
607-763-4745
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1ED42.94B55220
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D564533021-26042002><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi=20
Dennis,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D564533021-26042002><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D564533021-26042002><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I =
haven't used this=20
part since around the date code on your earlier ones, but this sure has =
the=20
smell of a timing problem. It could be that Philips changed the =
process=20
the die is made on, which can easily change the timing and/or the driver =
output=20
impedance. Either of these can lead to setup violations or bus=20
contention. Assuming that the original designer did his homework =
on the=20
timing, I'd look for changes to the timing specs or output drive =
capability of=20
the newer chips. Another possibility that is less palatable is =
that there=20
was a timing problem all along, but you have managed to stay just this =
side of=20
failure until the part changed slightly. This is harder to find =
since you=20
have to review the whole timing analysis.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D564533021-26042002><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D564533021-26042002><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Has =
anything else on=20
this bus changed, such as bus loading (more memory) or a change in the =
decoding=20
scheme? Assuming there is a processor in this system, has the die =
revision=20
changed on that? As a final thought, check the errata sheets on =
the older=20
UART's. It is possible that Philips fixed some bugs in the die =
that your=20
software people originally had to work around and the workaround is now =
causing=20
the problem.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D564533021-26042002><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D564533021-26042002><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good=20
luck!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D564533021-26042002></SPAN></FONT></FONT><SPAN=20
class=3D564533021-26042002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,<BR><BR>Seth Goodman<BR>Goodman =
Associates,=20
LLC<BR>tel 608.833.9933<BR>fax 608.833.9966<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Dennis =
Petrosky<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Thursday, April 25, 2002 9:54 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Philips Signetics SCC 68692 =
Dual=20
UART<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>For the =
Philips=20
Signetics Dual UART, P/N SCC 68692 has anyone seen the following =
problems with=20
newer parts. We don't seem to have problems with older parts, =
1994 date=20
code. We have the problems with newer parts 2000 and 2001 parts. =
We don't know where the date change actually occurred. The =
problems don't happen 100% of the time on the new parts. =
Temperature=20
seems to affect it. The problem occurrs more often at higher=20
temperatures.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>The =
problems=20
are:</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>1. The baud =
rate is wrong=20
by a factor of 16. If you select 19.2K baud for example, the =
part tries=20
for 307K baud.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>2. =
The part=20
drops bits on the output data and requires 3 tries on any RS232 input =
to get=20
the correct character. For instance, if you are pressing a =
series of 1's=20
on the keyboard, then press 2, it will take 3 presses of 2 before the =
2 is=20
actually outputed on the UART. The problem seems to be in =
changing bits=20
on the output word from low to high. If a bit is high and is =
intended to=20
be high, it will stay high. If a bit is low and is intended to =
stay low,=20
it will stay low. If a bit is high and needs to go low, it will =
go low=20
on the first key press. If a bit is low and needs to go high, it =
will=20
take 3 key presses to go high.</FONT> <BR><BR><BR><BR><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D2>Dennis Petrosky<BR>Circuit Card Manufacturing=20
Engineer<BR>607-763-4745</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1ED42.94B55220--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 18:18:06 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Immersion Gold Vs Immersion Tin for 0201 landpatterns
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Imm tin at 44 micron!!! Wow, that seems very thick. We expect minimum
thickness of 0.65 microns with a maximum thickness of 1.5 microns.
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tuan Bui" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TN] Immersion Gold Vs Immersion Tin for 0201 landpatterns
> Hi George,
>
> The Immersion Gold process that the PCB vendor stated that the Immersion
> gold (7-10 micron) over nickel over copper. The Immersion Tin process, as
> you have mentioned, is about 44 micron. It is good to hear that the
> immersion tin process can be easily/inexpensive reworked when its shelf
> live expires.
>
> BTW, thanks for your input.
>
> Tuan Bui
> Proc Dev Eng
> Conexant Systems Inc.
>
>
>
> George Milad
> <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent by: TechNet cc:
> <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [TN]
Immersion Gold Vs Immersion Tin for 0201 landpatterns
>
>
> 04/26/2002 08:47
> AM
> Please respond to
> "TechNet E-Mail
> Forum."; Please
> respond to Gmilad
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tuan,
> Could you clarify the "Immersion Gold" process that you are using. Is it
> Immersion gold over copper or it immersion gold over nickel over copper?
>
> Immersion Tin is a viable alternative for your application. However the
> thickness required will much higher than the 7 - 8 uins that you are
> presently using for gold, more like 30 - 40 uins. Tin is realtive
> inexpensive and can be easily reworked if shelf life becomes an issue.
>
> George Milad
> HDI Consulting
> Chairman IPC Plating Committee.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 00:22:07 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 0402 stencil apperture design
X-To: Roger Stoops <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1ED81.90C861E0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1ED81.90C861E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The plexus report is published in '98 and is still pretty up-to-date, =
but it doesn't have much info about stencil apertures (but it's still =
interesting).=20
The report has disappeared from the plexus website, but you can still =
download it at http://www.smtinfo.net/docs/tombstoning.pdf
B.T.W. I'd say that even now 0201's are new to the masses, don't you =
think so Roger ?
Daan Terstegge
http://www.smtinfo.net
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Roger Stoops=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] 0402 stencil apperture design
If memory serves me right (and it normally does not), there was an =
article
published some years ago that championed oval pads for 0402s. I want =
to say
somewhere around '92 or '93. (0201s were probably new at that time to =
the
masses.) I want to say that it was Motorola(tm) that did the studies, =
and
oval pads and stencil apertures seemed to solve many manufacturing =
problems
for them. I'll have to rummage through my files one day and find it.
Can not wait until I get to try my hand at some of that itty-bitty =
stuff,
jealous of those that do...
Best Regards,
Roger M. Stoops, CID [log in to unmask]
TRIMBLE NAVIGATION LIMITED
Engineering and Construction Division
5475 Kellenburger Rd.
Dayton, OH 45424-1099 USA
Telephone: 937 233 8921 800 538 7800 ext. 288
Facsimile: 937 233 7511
http://www.trimble.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ahne Oosterhof [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 1:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] 0402 stencil aperture design
Hi Peter,
At Plexus they have published a rather extensive report on the causes =
of
tombstoning. It included some remarks on the incidence of solder =
balls. Both
problem areas are partially caused by pad design on the board and =
aperture
design in stencils. (Some say the most significant factors for =
tombstoning
are pick-and-place accuracy and oven temperature profile.)
To minimize tombstoning the report indicates that pad design has a =
minimal
impact when using 0402-s, but for 0201-s you want to stay close to the
'normal' size for pad design.
To minimize solder balls it is recommended to change stencil apertures =
to
home plates. My personal preference (and that of some of our =
customers) is
to change the aperture to an oval, which has the effect of reducing =
excess
solder in all four corners of the pads. Sometimes in addition the =
overall
size is reduced by 1 or 2 mil.
An additional advantage is that the OVAL is a Gerber shape improving =
data
compactness, data sharing and interpretation reliability and it means =
that
for a single component there are no 'left' and 'right' or 'top' and =
'bottom'
apertures (or D-codes).
Have fun,
Ahne.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of peter lee
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 07:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] 0402 stencil apperture design
Has anyone used a "D"-shape 0402 land pattern on their
design?
The pad dimensions are 18x19mils (semi-circle on the
other ends) and 16mil spacing between the 2 pads.
What would be the stencil apperture recommendation for
the above design? We've used round pads for 0402s and
15% apperture reduction before.
Rgds,
Peter
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV =
1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text =
in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to =
[log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: =
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for =
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or =
847-509-9700
ext.5315
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
-----
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV =
1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text =
in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to =
[log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: =
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for =
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or =
847-509-9700
ext.5315
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
-----
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV =
1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text =
in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to =
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to =
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: =
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for =
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or =
847-509-9700 ext.5315
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1ED81.90C861E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>The plexus report is published in '98 and is still pretty =
up-to-date,=20
but it doesn't have much info about stencil apertures (but it's =
still=20
interesting). </DIV>
<DIV>The report has disappeared from the plexus website, but you =
can still=20
download it at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net/docs/tombstoning.pdf">http://www.smtinfo.n=
et/docs/tombstoning.pdf</A></DIV>
<DIV>B.T.W. I'd say that even now 0201's are new to the =
masses, don't=20
you think so Roger ?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Daan Terstegge</DIV>
<DIV>http://<A href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net">www.smtinfo.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Roger=20
Stoops</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask]
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 26, 2002 =
10:10=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] 0402 stencil =
apperture=20
design</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>If memory serves me right (and it normally does not), =
there was=20
an article<BR>published some years ago that championed oval pads for =
0402s. I=20
want to say<BR>somewhere around '92 or '93. (0201s were probably new =
at that=20
time to the<BR>masses.) I want to say that it was Motorola(tm) =
that did=20
the studies, and<BR>oval pads and stencil apertures seemed to solve =
many=20
manufacturing problems<BR>for them. I'll have to rummage through =
my=20
files one day and find it.<BR>Can not wait until I get to try my hand =
at some=20
of that itty-bitty stuff,<BR>jealous of those that do...<BR>Best=20
Regards,<BR><BR>Roger M. Stoops, CID <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A><BR>=
TRIMBLE=20
NAVIGATION LIMITED<BR>Engineering and Construction Division<BR>5475=20
Kellenburger Rd.<BR>Dayton, OH =20
45424-1099 USA<BR>Telephone: 937 =
233=20
8921 800 538 =
7800 =20
ext. 288<BR>Facsimile: 937 233 7511<BR><BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.trimble.com">http://www.trimble.com</A><BR><BR><BR><BR=
> -----Original=20
Message-----<BR>From: Ahne Oosterhof=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR>Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 =
1:54=20
PM<BR>To: <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A><BR>Subject: &nbs=
p; =20
Re: [TN] 0402 stencil aperture design<BR><BR>Hi Peter,<BR>At Plexus =
they have=20
published a rather extensive report on the causes of<BR>tombstoning. =
It=20
included some remarks on the incidence of solder balls. =
Both<BR>problem areas=20
are partially caused by pad design on the board and aperture<BR>design =
in=20
stencils. (Some say the most significant factors for =
tombstoning<BR>are=20
pick-and-place accuracy and oven temperature profile.)<BR><BR>To =
minimize=20
tombstoning the report indicates that pad design has a =
minimal<BR>impact when=20
using 0402-s, but for 0201-s you want to stay close to the<BR>'normal' =
size=20
for pad design.<BR><BR>To minimize solder balls it is recommended to =
change=20
stencil apertures to<BR>home plates. My personal preference (and that =
of some=20
of our customers) is<BR>to change the aperture to an oval, which has =
the=20
effect of reducing excess<BR>solder in all four corners of the pads. =
Sometimes=20
in addition the overall<BR>size is reduced by 1 or 2 mil.<BR><BR>An =
additional=20
advantage is that the OVAL is a Gerber shape improving =
data<BR>compactness,=20
data sharing and interpretation reliability and it means that<BR>for a =
single=20
component there are no 'left' and 'right' or 'top' and =
'bottom'<BR>apertures=20
(or D-codes).<BR><BR>Have fun,<BR>Ahne.<BR><BR><BR>-----Original=20
Message-----<BR>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On =
Behalf=20
Of peter lee<BR>Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002=20
07:58<BR>To: <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A><BR>Subject: &nbs=
p; =20
[TN] 0402 stencil apperture design<BR><BR>Has anyone used a "D"-shape =
0402=20
land pattern on their<BR>design?<BR><BR>The pad dimensions are =
18x19mils=20
(semi-circle on the<BR>other ends) and 16mil spacing between the 2=20
pads.<BR><BR>What would be the stencil apperture recommendation =
for<BR>the=20
above design? We've used round pads for 0402s and<BR>15% apperture =
reduction=20
=
before.<BR><BR><BR>Rgds,<BR>Peter<BR><BR><BR>____________________________=
______________________<BR>Do=20
You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and =
more<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://games.yahoo.com/">http://games.yahoo.com/</A><BR><BR>-----=
-----------------------------------------------------------------------<B=
R>-----<BR>Technet=20
Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<BR>To=20
unsubscribe, send a message to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> with following =
text=20
in<BR>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet<BR>To =
temporarily halt=20
delivery of Technet send e-mail to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>: SET<BR>Technet=20
NOMAIL<BR>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail =
to<BR><A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>: SET =
Technet=20
Digest<BR>Search the archives of previous posts at: <A=20
=
href=3D"http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archive=
s</A><BR>Please=20
visit IPC web site <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.=
htm</A>=20
for additional<BR>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> or=20
=
847-509-9700<BR>ext.5315<BR>---------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------<BR>-----<BR><BR>-------------------------=
---------------------------------------------------<BR>-----<BR>Technet=20
Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<BR>To=20
unsubscribe, send a message to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> with following =
text=20
in<BR>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet<BR>To =
temporarily halt=20
delivery of Technet send e-mail to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>: SET<BR>Technet=20
NOMAIL<BR>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail =
to<BR><A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>: SET =
Technet=20
Digest<BR>Search the archives of previous posts at: <A=20
=
href=3D"http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archive=
s</A><BR>Please=20
visit IPC web site <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.=
htm</A>=20
for additional<BR>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> or=20
=
847-509-9700<BR>ext.5315<BR>---------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------<BR>-----<BR><BR>-------------------------=
--------------------------------------------------------<BR>Technet=20
Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<BR>To=20
unsubscribe, send a message to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> with following =
text=20
in<BR>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet<BR>To =
temporarily halt=20
delivery of Technet send e-mail to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>: SET Technet =
NOMAIL<BR>To=20
receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>: SET Technet=20
Digest<BR>Search the archives of previous posts at: <A=20
=
href=3D"http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archive=
s</A><BR>Please=20
visit IPC web site <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.=
htm</A>=20
for additional<BR>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> or 847-509-9700=20
=
ext.5315<BR>-------------------------------------------------------------=
--------------------</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1ED81.90C861E0--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:19:51 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Tuan Bui <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Immersion Gold Vs Immersion Tin for 0201 landpatterns
X-To: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
David,
I double checked the Tin thickness and you are right. 44 micron is too
thick. The correct measurement is .7 microns (~ 44 micro inches)
Thanks for catching that.
Tuan
"David Fish"
<[log in to unmask] To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, <[log in to unmask]>
> cc:
Subject: Re: Re: [TN] Immersion Gold Vs Immersion Tin for 0201 landpatterns
04/26/2002 06:18
PM
Imm tin at 44 micron!!! Wow, that seems very thick. We expect minimum
thickness of 0.65 microns with a maximum thickness of 1.5 microns.
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tuan Bui" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TN] Immersion Gold Vs Immersion Tin for 0201 landpatterns
> Hi George,
>
> The Immersion Gold process that the PCB vendor stated that the Immersion
> gold (7-10 micron) over nickel over copper. The Immersion Tin process, as
> you have mentioned, is about 44 micron. It is good to hear that the
> immersion tin process can be easily/inexpensive reworked when its shelf
> live expires.
>
> BTW, thanks for your input.
>
> Tuan Bui
> Proc Dev Eng
> Conexant Systems Inc.
>
>
>
> George Milad
> <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent by: TechNet cc:
> <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [TN]
Immersion Gold Vs Immersion Tin for 0201 landpatterns
>
>
> 04/26/2002 08:47
> AM
> Please respond to
> "TechNet E-Mail
> Forum."; Please
> respond to Gmilad
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tuan,
> Could you clarify the "Immersion Gold" process that you are using. Is it
> Immersion gold over copper or it immersion gold over nickel over copper?
>
> Immersion Tin is a viable alternative for your application. However the
> thickness required will much higher than the 7 - 8 uins that you are
> presently using for gold, more like 30 - 40 uins. Tin is realtive
> inexpensive and can be easily reworked if shelf life becomes an issue.
>
> George Milad
> HDI Consulting
> Chairman IPC Plating Committee.
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 16:30:46 +0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
LINO REBOREDO <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: LINO REBOREDO <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FAB Question: laminate - 1 ply or 2??
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Dear Pete, I also made myself your question time ago, my relative truth is
that in all cases that you can use 2 plies used it, One ply means that the
ply system resin- reinforce must be in perfect state, no fault is admitted.
I never had meet an adhesion problem using one ply,
but i had meet dielectrical lacks betw. layer and was due to operational
asemblies fault.
at the end is as we say :is not the same the double than the half
regards,
lino
>From: Pete Jones <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Pete Jones
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [TN] FAB Question: laminate - 1 ply or 2??
>Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:55:27 -0400
>
>Hello all TechNetters,
>
>What is the difference between using 1 ply of laminate or 2 in fab boards?
>
>Is there a REAL concern that 1 ply will not be sufficient electrical
>insolation? Or has resins now evolved enough to make it safe to use just
>one
>ply?
>
>I deal mostly, but not exclusively, with the military and would like to
>make
>sure of my statement that 1 ply should be sufficient. Can I get reliable
>references anywhere concerning this issue, one way or the other?
>
>Thanks to all participants in this discussion.
>
>Pete
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
>SET Technet NOMAIL
>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
>[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
>Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
>Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_________________________________________________________________
Únase con MSN Hotmail al servicio de correo electrónico más grande del
mundo. http://www.hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:42:24 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Microvias and rigid-flex in one board shop?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_6.280ee898.29fc2ef0_boundary"
--part1_6.280ee898.29fc2ef0_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello Terri,
I can build flex with microvias. We are selective though, regarding flex
that is. I would suggest the APLS flex (no adhesive) and if conventional
cover coat is used to terminate after rigid area entry. This area must be no
via zone. The rigid needs to be epoxy (aka FR4) [I used to be a BIG
polyimide guy], don't bond your flex layers together, keep board aspect
ratio below 6.5/1, microvia aspect ratios below .75/1, Silver or Tin finish.
Make the build symmetrical about the vertical centerline. Prior to proto
build have a mock up made for mechanical/sanity check.
If I didn't go to me I would go to Pioneer (Santa Ana, CA, Ken Lee) or
Cosomtronics (Irvine, CA, Dick Berger). Both these folks are HiRel flex
shops and smart people that build excellent flex (my own first hand
experience) BUT I do NOT know their capability of micro via technology. That
is not meant to be derogatory.
I have built micro via flex, it is better to get a micro via shop to build
flex than a flex shop to builds micro via.
Contact me if more detail/opinion is needed.
Boston Brad
781 858 0783
--part1_6.280ee898.29fc2ef0_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Hello Terri,<BR>
<BR>
I can build flex with microvias. We are selective though, regarding flex that is. I would suggest the APLS flex (no adhesive) and if conventional cover coat is used to terminate after rigid area entry. This area must be no via zone. The rigid needs to be epoxy (aka FR4) [I used to be a BIG polyimide guy], don't bond your flex layers together, keep board aspect ratio below 6.5/1, microvia aspect ratios below .75/1, Silver or Tin finish. Make the build symmetrical about the vertical centerline. Prior to proto build have a mock up made for mechanical/sanity check.<BR>
If I didn't go to me I would go to Pioneer (Santa Ana, CA, Ken Lee) or Cosomtronics (Irvine, CA, Dick Berger). Both these folks are HiRel flex shops and smart people that build excellent flex (my own first hand experience) BUT I do NOT know their capability of micro via technology. That is not meant to be derogatory.<BR>
I have built micro via flex, it is better to get a micro via shop to build flex than a flex shop to builds micro via.<BR>
<BR>
Contact me if more detail/opinion is needed.<BR>
<BR>
Boston Brad<BR>
781 858 0783<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_6.280ee898.29fc2ef0_boundary--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:57:31 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Microvias and rigid-flex in one board shop?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_152.d072494.29fc327b_boundary"
--part1_152.d072494.29fc327b_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Moon,
I meet many people involved in the dreaded "MX flex." It did go through some
extensive "envelope" changes, many of which I was not privy to in that they
were before my time. I was heavily involved in the final end product and can
unequivocally state it is a sound robust design that is indeed "failsafe." I
have worked a great many Defense applications and I say to this day I have
never worked with a more professional group or have more certainty of
performance than the MX; PeaceKeeper.
BB
--part1_152.d072494.29fc327b_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Moon,<BR>
<BR>
I meet many people involved in the dreaded "MX flex." It did go through some extensive "envelope" changes, many of which I was not privy to in that they were before my time. I was heavily involved in the final end product and can unequivocally state it is a sound robust design that is indeed "failsafe." I have worked a great many Defense applications and I say to this day I have never worked with a more professional group or have more certainty of performance than the MX; PeaceKeeper.<BR>
<BR>
BB </FONT></HTML>
--part1_152.d072494.29fc327b_boundary--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:05:53 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Rick Fudalewski <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: HDIC
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_84.27714f08.29fc3471_boundary"
--part1_84.27714f08.29fc3471_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Question
does the term "HDIC" stand for high density integrated circuits?
--part1_84.27714f08.29fc3471_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Question
<BR>
<BR>does the term "HDIC" stand for high density integrated circuits?</FONT></HTML>
--part1_84.27714f08.29fc3471_boundary--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:02:03 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Microvias and rigid-flex in one board shop?
X-To: [log in to unmask]
saunders,
As you say, you were not there in the early days. However, all the folks
were very professional. They just didn't have the technology early on to get
the project to market as soon as they would have wished. Obviously you do
and that's good for us all.
MoonMan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:29:34 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Via Plug
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_51.1d2ad0a3.29fc39fe_boundary"
--part1_51.1d2ad0a3.29fc39fe_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello John,
Via plug is one of the fastest growing requests of board buyers/users today.
Mainly in the arena of electrical interconnection in the CSP or sub .8mm BGA
substrates. Thermagon is a very good thermal dielectric (www.thermagon.com)
and their "in-situ" hole fill may be what your looking for, although it is
best used to bond PCBs to alum or copper heat plates. It can also be readily
used as the dielectric system for single, double or multilayer boards. It is
conventional E-glass with a modified epoxy that has 10x betterment of thermal
transfer properties. We use a high silver content epoxy hole fill supplied
by three different suppliers. These are all great materials but will not do
a thermal transfer job very well. If it is a through PCB thermal transfer
you can't beat the performance of an additional plated through hole combined
with copper planes (large and or small). The challenge is where does the
heat go from there and how. That is an assembly issue and volume has
everything to do with appropriate configuration. I've done quite a bit of
that send a reply to continue the thread.
Boston Brad
--part1_51.1d2ad0a3.29fc39fe_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Hello John,<BR>
<BR>
Via plug is one of the fastest growing requests of board buyers/users today. Mainly in the arena of electrical interconnection in the CSP or sub .8mm BGA substrates. Thermagon is a very good thermal dielectric (www.thermagon.com) and their "in-situ" hole fill may be what your looking for, although it is best used to bond PCBs to alum or copper heat plates. It can also be readily used as the dielectric system for single, double or multilayer boards. It is conventional E-glass with a modified epoxy that has 10x betterment of thermal transfer properties. We use a high silver content epoxy hole fill supplied by three different suppliers. These are all great materials but will not do a thermal transfer job very well. If it is a through PCB thermal transfer you can't beat the performance of an additional plated through hole combined with copper planes (large and or small). The challenge is where does the heat go from there and how. That is!
an assembly issue and volume has everything to do with appropriate configuration. I've done quite a bit of that send a reply to continue the thread. <BR>
<BR>
Boston Brad </FONT></HTML>
--part1_51.1d2ad0a3.29fc39fe_boundary--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:42:39 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: HDIC
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_15d.d0ed3b1.29fc3d0f_boundary"
--part1_15d.d0ed3b1.29fc3d0f_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
High Denity InterConnects
> Question
>
> does the term "HDIC" stand for high density integrated circuits?
--part1_15d.d0ed3b1.29fc3d0f_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>High Denity InterConnects<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Question<BR>
<BR>
does the term "HDIC" stand for high density integrated circuits?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_15d.d0ed3b1.29fc3d0f_boundary--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:48:12 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Via Plug
One of the best places for the heat to go is a cold wall.
MoonMan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:14:43 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
fullname <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: fullname <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: DSO National Laboratories
Subject: Looking for Happy Holden
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I would like to have Happy Holden's contact especially email address.
Your reply would be appreciated.
Regards - Wee Mei
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:39:38 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Via Plug
X-To: "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Michael,
My thermal engineer assures me that the K value for copper is between 150
and 200 W/mK, but even so, your point about replacing CB100 (now CB101, by
the way) with additional copper plating is a valid one, and offers much
simpler, quicker and less costly PCB fabrication.
The only caveat I would add is, make sure the ductility for your additional
copper plating thickness is enough to avoid cracking the barrels under
temperature cycling, especially if using FR4.
Peter
"Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> 26/04/2002 11:58 PM
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Mcmaster,
Michael"
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST Aero/ST Group)
Subject: Re: [TN] Via Plug
John
The DuPont CB-100 will increase the amount of heat that can be conducted
through the barrel. My experience with it that most people overestimate
what it can do. I've done calculations that show for a 0.020" drilled hole
with 0.001" copper barrel, adding CB-100 only increases the amount of heat
by less than 5%. The reason is the CB-100 has a thermal conductivity of
5.23
W/mK vs 395 W/mK for copper. Even though CB-100 makes up the majority of
the cross sectional area, it only adds a little to the "thermal" cross
section.
I always recommend that potential users of this technology run the numbers
themselves and balance the potential cost increase with the improved
performance.
> ----------
> From: John Foster[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;John Foster
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:06 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Via Plug
>
> Hello, I am new to this listserver. I must say that it is very
> informative. I wish I had known of it long ago.
>
> I have a question about via plugging. Right now
> our board vendor is doing our via plugs with
> I guess with a standard epoxy. We are trying
> to find a solution that would give us a much
> better thermal performance.
>
> We are looking at silver epoxy and this
> material from Dupont. Does anyone know of
> some material that would give us a really good
> thermal performance. We are in a commercial
> environment. So the material does not have to
> meet industrial specs.
>
> Any input on this matter would be greatly '
> appreciated.
>
> Thank You
>
> John Foster
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should
not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other
person. Thank you.]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:00:05 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"FOX, Ian (York Rd)" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "FOX, Ian (York Rd)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Via Plug
X-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
It's a very poor Cu alloy with a thermal conductivity that low, you're
talking BeCu at that level. 395 is about right for high purity material
Ian Fox
TRW AS
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 29 April 2002 06:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Via Plug
Michael,
My thermal engineer assures me that the K value for copper is between 150
and 200 W/mK, but even so, your point about replacing CB100 (now CB101, by
the way) with additional copper plating is a valid one, and offers much
simpler, quicker and less costly PCB fabrication.
The only caveat I would add is, make sure the ductility for your additional
copper plating thickness is enough to avoid cracking the barrels under
temperature cycling, especially if using FR4.
Peter
"Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> 26/04/2002 11:58 PM
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Mcmaster,
Michael"
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST Aero/ST Group)
Subject: Re: [TN] Via Plug
John
The DuPont CB-100 will increase the amount of heat that can be conducted
through the barrel. My experience with it that most people overestimate
what it can do. I've done calculations that show for a 0.020" drilled hole
with 0.001" copper barrel, adding CB-100 only increases the amount of heat
by less than 5%. The reason is the CB-100 has a thermal conductivity of
5.23
W/mK vs 395 W/mK for copper. Even though CB-100 makes up the majority of
the cross sectional area, it only adds a little to the "thermal" cross
section.
I always recommend that potential users of this technology run the numbers
themselves and balance the potential cost increase with the improved
performance.
> ----------
> From: John Foster[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;John Foster
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:06 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Via Plug
>
> Hello, I am new to this listserver. I must say that it is very
> informative. I wish I had known of it long ago.
>
> I have a question about via plugging. Right now
> our board vendor is doing our via plugs with
> I guess with a standard epoxy. We are trying
> to find a solution that would give us a much
> better thermal performance.
>
> We are looking at silver epoxy and this
> material from Dupont. Does anyone know of
> some material that would give us a really good
> thermal performance. We are in a commercial
> environment. So the material does not have to
> meet industrial specs.
>
> Any input on this matter would be greatly '
> appreciated.
>
> Thank You
>
> John Foster
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
[This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should
not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other
person. Thank you.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 06:06:08 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Looking for Happy Holden
X-To: fullname <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Check over at the CircuiTree magazine forum. He's on all the time.
Earl
----- Original Message -----
From: "fullname" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 12:14 AM
Subject: [TN] Looking for Happy Holden
> I would like to have Happy Holden's contact especially email address.
> Your reply would be appreciated.
>
> Regards - Wee Mei
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 03:37:24 +1000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
chris johnston <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: chris johnston <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Looking for Happy Holden
X-To: fullname <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sorry, don't know any happy holden, cannot help.
-----Original Message-----
From: fullname <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Monday, April 29, 2002 3:09 PM
Subject: [TN] Looking for Happy Holden
>I would like to have Happy Holden's contact especially email address.
>Your reply would be appreciated.
>
>Regards - Wee Mei
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
>Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
>Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 08:00:36 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Dieselberg, Ron" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Dieselberg, Ron" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: HDIC
X-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1EF75.79147340"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EF75.79147340
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
According to acronymfinder.com that is the only listing, Rick.
Ron Dieselberg
Trainer/Auditor
CMC ELECTRONICS
CINCINNATI
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Fudalewski [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 13:06 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] HDIC
Question
does the term "HDIC" stand for high density integrated circuits?
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EF75.79147340
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=530404311-29042002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>According to
acronymfinder.com that is the only listing, Rick.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ron Dieselberg</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Trainer/Auditor</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>CMC ELECTRONICS</FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>CINCINNATI</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>[log in to unmask]</FONT> </P>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Rick Fudalewski
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 27, 2002 13:06
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN]
HDIC<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>Question
<BR><BR>does the term "HDIC" stand for high density integrated
circuits?</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1EF75.79147340--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 08:35:58 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Sherif Refaat <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Sherif Refaat <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Looking for Happy Holden
X-To: fullname <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
His office telephone number is (203) 937 8622
Sherif Refaat,
----- Original Message -----
From: "fullname" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 12:14 AM
Subject: [TN] Looking for Happy Holden
> I would like to have Happy Holden's contact especially email address.
> Your reply would be appreciated.
>
> Regards - Wee Mei
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:40:09 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Flip-flop panels
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Now I got all mixed up.
I'm mainly talking about multilayer boards. Basically small piggy backs, but
MLBs still!
Is it doable or not?
And, of course, thanks for the input, Dennis, Jac, Robert and Eddie.
Ioan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eddie Rocha [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:45 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Flip-flop panels
>
> Flip flopping multilayer bds can get complicated and is not
> recommended. It cannot be done if the layer stack-up is not
> symmetrical.
> thanks,
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:35:54 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Looking for Happy Holden
X-To: fullname <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Good Morning Wee Mei,
I took the following directly from a recent article in CircuiTree Magazine:
Happy Holden is manager of advanced technologies for Westwood Associates
(West Haven, CT). He is responsible for next-generation printed circuit
manufacturing technologies, advanced design tools, and design consulting.
Prior to joining Westwood, he was a consultant with TechLead Corporation,
and had been at Hewlett-Packard for over 27 years. Holden formally managed
Hewlett Packard's application organizations in the Far East and holds
degrees in Chemical Engineering and Computer Science. If you have questions,
he can be contacted via e-mail at [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: fullname [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 12:15 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Looking for Happy Holden
I would like to have Happy Holden's contact especially email address.
Your reply would be appreciated.
Regards - Wee Mei
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:21:19 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Flip-flop panels
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
You are right Charlie, the board house must be involved.
Since my original purpose was to assess the feasability, I think I had my
answers.
The starting point that a manufacturing man like myself needed is there.
Thanks all,
Ioan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charlie McMahon [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:28 AM
> To: Tempea, Ioan
> Subject: Re: [TN] Flip-flop panels
>
> Joan:
>
> May I add to the discussion that you should not be flipping multi-layers.
> Primary reason is it only adds more cost in PCB fabrication due to lower
> yields caused by plating difficiencies.
> If you want to enhance productivity and increase your margin, consider
> co-operative engineering early on with your board supplier and assembler.
> As a board and assembly supplier myself, I have offered same to my clients
> and it can pay serious dividends in reducing problems increasing profit.
>
> I represent board shops in Canada that would be happy to assist you in
> this regard. It is, in my view, the superior strategy to implement.
> If you would, like I will provide contacts should you wish to investigate.
>
> Charlie McMahon
>
>
>
> Tempea, Ioan wrote:
>
>
> Now I got all mixed up.
>
> I'm mainly talking about multilayer boards. Basically small piggy
> backs, but
> MLBs still!
>
> Is it doable or not?
>
> And, of course, thanks for the input, Dennis, Jac, Robert and Eddie.
>
> Ioan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eddie Rocha [ SMTP:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:SMTP:[log in to unmask]>]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:45 PM
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [TN] Flip-flop panels
>
> Flip flopping multilayer bds can get complicated and is not
> recommended. It cannot be done if the layer stack-up is not
> symmetrical.
> thanks,
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using
> LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: <mailto:Listserv @ipc.org:>
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail
> to
> [log in to unmask]: <mailto:[log in to unmask]:> SET Technet
> Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at:
> <http://listserv.ipc.org/archives>
> Please visit IPC web site
> <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm> for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: <mailto:[log in to unmask]:> SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: <mailto:[log in to unmask]:> SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at:
> <http://listserv.ipc.org/archives>
> Please visit IPC web site
> <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm> for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:21:19 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Frank Kimmey <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Frank Kimmey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Flip-flop panels
X-To: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Ioan,
It is doable.
You just have to make sure of a few things first.
1. Board stack-up is symmetrical
2. Step and repeat allows even number of images
(copper balancing)
3. Blind or buried vias add complexity (orders of magnitude)
4. KISS is best. The simpler the better.
I have requested flip image panels to reduce costs, warpage and
process times on many PCBs throughout the years. It works, but
you should spend a little more time in verification and probably
only use with simpler MLBs.
Hope this helped,
FNK
Frank N Kimmey, C.I.D.+
Senior PCB Designer
Powerwave Technologies
PH. 916-941-3159
Fax 916-941-3195
-----Original Message-----
From: Tempea, Ioan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 6:40 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Flip-flop panels
Now I got all mixed up.
I'm mainly talking about multilayer boards. Basically small piggy backs, but
MLBs still!
Is it doable or not?
And, of course, thanks for the input, Dennis, Jac, Robert and Eddie.
Ioan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:26:26 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Robert B. Denbo" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Flip-flop panels
X-To: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ioan:
As long as dielectric spacing and copper weights are symmetric around the
centerline of the panel it is doable.
Robert B. Denbo
Engineering Manager
Midwest Printed Circuit Services, Inc.
http://www.midwestpcb.com
mailto:[log in to unmask]
847.740.4120
847.740.4187 Fax
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Tempea, Ioan
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 8:40 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Flip-flop panels
Now I got all mixed up.
I'm mainly talking about multilayer boards. Basically small piggy backs, but
MLBs still!
Is it doable or not?
And, of course, thanks for the input, Dennis, Jac, Robert and Eddie.
Ioan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eddie Rocha [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:45 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Flip-flop panels
>
> Flip flopping multilayer bds can get complicated and is not
> recommended. It cannot be done if the layer stack-up is not
> symmetrical.
> thanks,
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:25:59 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Dwight Mattix <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dwight Mattix <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Via Plug
X-To: John Foster <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <006901c1ebbd$f36abed0$550200c0@jfoster2>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 11:29 AM 4/24/2002 -0700, John Foster wrote:
>Thanks Jim
>
>Did you do this extra plating selectively. Or did you just overplate the
>whole PCB.
We have a lot of applications where we spec thermal vias to be selectively
plated to a minimum of 3 mils annular copper.
The fabricator drills the thermal vias and selectively plates to 2
mils. Then they drill and (plate the rest of the board to 1 mil (adding to
thermal via copper as well).
It's way more effective at heat transfer than any conductive epoxy we've
tried. This approach is also very effective at controlling solder wicking
to the bottom of the board -- we'll use it sometimes when we don't have a
thermal problem but just want to control solder flow into unplugged fields
of gnd vias (saves masking backside).
Dwight
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:28:19 -0400
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Tom Moore <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: end joint width vs. side joint length
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
We are a small, primarily captive, board assembly house that recently
brought our outsourced SMT assemblies in-house. We rely heavily on IPC
documentation in developing our acceptance criteria for Class 2 assemblies.
Have run into a problem with the idea of side joint length vs. end joint
width. Section 12.2.5.4 of 610C states that the minimum side joint length
is equal to the lead width or 75% of the lead length, whichever is less. I
would interpret this to mean that an acceptable solder joint does not
necessarily have to reach the toe of the component. However the preceding
section, end joint width-12.2.5.3, seems to indicate that not only does
solder need to contact the toe, it must also extend along 50% of the width
of the toe. Is there a conflict or am I not interpreting the spec correctly?
Thanks for your help.
Tom Moore
Quality Assurance Manager
Electro Plasma, Inc.
PH 419-255-5197
FAX 419-838-6745
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:48:59 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Chemistry of discoloration?
X-To: Jana Carraway <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Oxidation, oxidation, oxidation!
I don't mean to oversimplify but that is predominately what is occurring.
I've seen samples where a strip of Kapton tape is placed on the board before
reflow. The section under the tape doesn't darken while the rest does.
> ----------
> From: Jana Carraway[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;Jana Carraway
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:04 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Chemistry of discoloration?
>
> Rudy, you can even use "free radical initiation"! There must be some
> formulations folks out there who can divulge a bit more about the
> reactions
> without giving away formulation secrets! Dr. Roos, you out there???
>
> Thanks for the info Rudy,
> Jana Carraway
> MSEI
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Rudy Sedlak
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 12:11 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Chemistry of discoloration?
>
>
> Jana:
>
> You have asked a BIG question.
>
> There really is no known absolute answer.
>
> Organics tend to discolor, if they have any sort of reactivity left in
> them,
> and often, under the right circumstances even if they do not have any
> reactivity left in them.
>
> The general rule is they turn dark(er). The reactions are many, and
> clearly
> going to be dependent on the base material. Discoloration is driven by
> heat,
> and often exposure to sunlight.
>
> Not to get too technical, but polymers (laminate, and soldermask, for
> example) only rarely really react fully, and there is almost always some
> unreacted polymer (called monomer when it is totally unreacted, and
> oligomer
> when it is partially reacted) lurking in the matrix. When this contacts
> air,
> water, and heat and UV, all sorts of unexpected things happen. In fact,
> these very polymers often have added "preservatives" to prevent these
> post-polymerization reactions from occurring.
>
> The bottom line is (as if this really has ANY significanse in our
> industry)
> that this discoloration rarely affects the physical properties of the
> polymer. I think a great English playwright described this situation
> centuries ago..."Much ado about nothing"?
>
> Rudy Sedlak
> RD Chemical Company
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> -----
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET
> Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> -----
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:18:00 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Via Plug
X-To: Dwight Mattix <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dwight, just out of curiosity, why not plate ALL of the vias with 3 mils of
copper. Wouldn't this be cheaper than drilling, plating, drilling and
plating again?
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: Dwight Mattix [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 1:26 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Via Plug
At 11:29 AM 4/24/2002 -0700, John Foster wrote:
>Thanks Jim
>
>Did you do this extra plating selectively. Or did you just
overplate the
>whole PCB.
We have a lot of applications where we spec thermal vias to be
selectively
plated to a minimum of 3 mils annular copper.
The fabricator drills the thermal vias and selectively plates to 2
mils. Then they drill and (plate the rest of the board to 1 mil
(adding to
thermal via copper as well).
It's way more effective at heat transfer than any conductive epoxy
we've
tried. This approach is also very effective at controlling solder
wicking
to the bottom of the board -- we'll use it sometimes when we don't
have a
thermal problem but just want to control solder flow into unplugged
fields
of gnd vias (saves masking backside).
Dwight
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at:
http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:41:13 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Jim Keating <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jim Keating <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Removal of Cured Nomenclature Ink
X-To: "Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob)" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bob,
Sorry for the late response to this posting. If you haven't already reworked the boards might I suggest
laser removal. This will work for certain applications and we have had success multiple times. If
interested please cantact me via TechNet or at (603) 882-9944.
Regards
Jim Keating
"Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob)" wrote:
> Hi TechNet,
>
> I have been asked what chemical(s) would be required to remove cured
> nomenclature ink (also known as silkscreen) from a bare board without
> damaging the board itself. I am assuming it is an epoxy ink, but I do not
> know the exact formulation. Any input is appreciated. I should know the
> exact formulation of the applied nomenclature ink tomorrow, but thought that
> maybe there is a generic answer.
>
> Thanks,
> Robert Furrow
> Printed Wiring Board Engineer
> Supply Chain Networks
> Lucent Technologies
> 978-960-3224 [log in to unmask]
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:54:23 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_2D70D107.40214376"
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=_2D70D107.40214376
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
IPC has become aware that the National Electronics Distributors Association=
(NEDA) has posted a white paper discussing the proposed lifting of date =
code restrictions and they have requested comments from end users as well =
as component suppliers and distributors. The paper can be viewed at =
http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html.
Comments can be provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them and =
forward to NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly [log in to unmask], please =
cc: me on your reply [log in to unmask]
Cordially
Jack
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
APEX 2003 - the industry's premier trade show in Electronics
Manufacturing, March 31-April 2, 2003, Anaheim, California.
More information on website www.goapex.org
--------
Jack Crawford, IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology
2215 Sanders Road, Northbrook IL 60062-6135
[log in to unmask]
847-790-5393
fax 847-504-2393
--=_2D70D107.40214376
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Description: HTML
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>IPC has become aware that t</FONT><FONT size=3D1>he =
National=20
Electronics Distributors Association (NEDA) has posted a white paper =
discussing=20
the proposed lifting of date code restrictions and they have requested =
comments=20
from end users as well as component suppliers and distributors. The paper =
can be=20
viewed at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html">http://www.nedassoc.org/whit=
edat.html</A>.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Comments can be provided to me on or off net; we'll =
compile=20
them and forward to NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask],">[log in to unmask],</A> please cc: =
me on=20
your reply <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>.<BR></FONT></=
DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Cordially</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Jack</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR=
>APEX 2003 - the=20
industry's premier trade show in Electronics<BR>Manufacturing, March =
31-April 2,=20
2003, Anaheim, California.<BR>More information on website <A=20
href=3D"http://www.goapex.org">www.goapex.org</A><BR>--------<BR>Jack =
Crawford,=20
IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology<BR>2215 Sanders Road,=20
Northbrook IL 60062-6135<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> <BR>847-790-5393<BR>fax=
=20
847-504-2393</DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
--=_2D70D107.40214376--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:49:17 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Via Plug
Don't mean to but in, but what the hell. Just think how much surface copper
would be plated and how much resist would have to be applied and how much
plating overhang would be involved even with several resist layers applied,
etc..
MoonMan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:05:47 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_197.63022bd.29ff2bcb_boundary"
--part1_197.63022bd.29ff2bcb_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I guess my first question is; If the datecodes currently mean different
things depending on the manufacturer, why not standardize what datecodes
really mean rather than get rid of them?
The paper talks about all the advances that have been made understanding root
causes concerning solderability issues, improved storage and handling
methods, etc., then why do I continue to get moisture sensitive components
from distributors in un-sealed packaging? But that's another issue...
A recent issue here at my facility underscores the importance of a datecode
on the part. We build an assembly for a customer that uses three 240-pin QFP
DSP's from a well known manufacturer. So far, we've built-up over 200
assemblies for our customer. We shipped the assemblies to our customer and
they integrated them into the higher level assembly, and discovered they
don't work...not communicating at all with the rest of the system.
Numerous phone calls to the manufacturer trying to find out what the problem
could be resulted in "Nothing has changed with the part, the die hasn't
changed, nothing..."
Funny thing was our first pre-production shipment of the assemblies worked
fine!!
After looking a little closer, the first lot of assemblies contained DSP's
that had a datecode that was 2000 or earlier, everything that's failing are
later...but still, according to the device manufacturer; "Nothing has
changed..."
If there wasn't a datecode on the part, we wouldn't know what we could put on
the assemblies and work. There is a lot of effort being expended to try and
isolate what the problem really is (with no help from the device supplier),
but for now we need to find parts that work so that it doesn't shut down
production, the only solid way (for now) is to find parts within a certain
date code.
Now I'm faced with the possible task of reworking 200 assemblies, each with
three 240-pin QFP's, with a early datecode part...fun stuff I know.
-Steve Gregory-
> IPC has become aware that the National Electronics Distributors Association
> (NEDA) has posted a white paper discussing the proposed lifting of date
> code restrictions and they have requested comments from end users as well
> as component suppliers and distributors. The paper can be viewed at <A HREF="http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html">
> http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html</A>.
>
> Comments can be provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them and
> forward to NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly <A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask],">[log in to unmask],</A> please
> cc: me on your reply <A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>.
>
> Cordially
> Jack
>
--part1_197.63022bd.29ff2bcb_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>I guess my first question is; If the datecodes currently mean different things depending on the manufacturer, why not standardize what datecodes really mean rather than get rid of them?<BR>
<BR>
The paper talks about all the advances that have been made understanding root causes concerning solderability issues, improved storage and handling methods, etc., then why do I continue to get moisture sensitive components from distributors in un-sealed packaging? But that's another issue...<BR>
<BR>
A recent issue here at my facility underscores the importance of a datecode on the part. We build an assembly for a customer that uses three 240-pin QFP DSP's from a well known manufacturer. So far, we've built-up over 200 assemblies for our customer. We shipped the assemblies to our customer and they integrated them into the higher level assembly, and discovered they don't work...not communicating at all with the rest of the system.<BR>
<BR>
Numerous phone calls to the manufacturer trying to find out what the problem could be resulted in "Nothing has changed with the part, the die hasn't changed, nothing..."<BR>
Funny thing was our first pre-production shipment of the assemblies worked fine!! <BR>
<BR>
After looking a little closer, the first lot of assemblies contained DSP's that had a datecode that was 2000 or earlier, everything that's failing are later...but still, according to the device manufacturer; "Nothing has changed..."<BR>
<BR>
If there wasn't a datecode on the part, we wouldn't know what we could put on the assemblies and work. There is a lot of effort being expended to try and isolate what the problem really is (with no help from the device supplier), but for now we need to find parts that work so that it doesn't shut down production, the only solid way (for now) is to find parts within a certain date code.<BR>
<BR>
Now I'm faced with the possible task of reworking 200 assemblies, each with three 240-pin QFP's, with a early datecode part...fun stuff I know.<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">IPC has become aware that the National Electronics Distributors Association (NEDA) has posted a white paper discussing the proposed lifting of date code restrictions and they have requested comments from end users as well as component suppliers and distributors. The paper can be viewed at <A HREF="http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html">http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html</A>.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Comments can be provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them and forward to NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly <A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask],">[log in to unmask],</A> please cc: me on your reply <A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>.<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Cordially</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Jack</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_197.63022bd.29ff2bcb_boundary--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:58:35 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
fullname <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: fullname <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: DSO National Laboratories
Subject: Re: Looking for Happy Holden
X-To: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thank you so much for your help.
Regards - Wee Mei
"Sauer, Steven T." wrote:
> Good Morning Wee Mei,
> I took the following directly from a recent article in CircuiTree Magazine:
> Happy Holden is manager of advanced technologies for Westwood Associates
> (West Haven, CT). He is responsible for next-generation printed circuit
> manufacturing technologies, advanced design tools, and design consulting.
> Prior to joining Westwood, he was a consultant with TechLead Corporation,
> and had been at Hewlett-Packard for over 27 years. Holden formally managed
> Hewlett Packard's application organizations in the Far East and holds
> degrees in Chemical Engineering and Computer Science. If you have questions,
> he can be contacted via e-mail at [log in to unmask]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fullname [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 12:15 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Looking for Happy Holden
>
> I would like to have Happy Holden's contact especially email address.
> Your reply would be appreciated.
>
> Regards - Wee Mei
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:00:32 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
fullname <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: fullname <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: DSO National Laboratories
Subject: Re: Looking for Happy Holden
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks for the information, Moonman.
Regards - Wee Mei
Earl Moon wrote:
> Check over at the CircuiTree magazine forum. He's on all the time.
>
> Earl
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "fullname" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 12:14 AM
> Subject: [TN] Looking for Happy Holden
>
> > I would like to have Happy Holden's contact especially email address.
> > Your reply would be appreciated.
> >
> > Regards - Wee Mei
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> > Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:32:34 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------9A6CBF01DB9B3CDD4EC37229"
--------------9A6CBF01DB9B3CDD4EC37229
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jack,
I agree with Steve's comments. The divergence between the commercial
and high reliability electronics is a very serious issue.
Any proposal that effects configuration control must be carefully
weighed. Trying to save money no matter what the cost is a
very easy trap to step into.
Standardizing the date code process is needed.
Use of date codes is needed for "life time" buys of COTS when
obsolescence problems are present.
Configuration control issues can also cause problems with commercial
OEMs.
Unless tracking methods are in place part failures by lot would be
difficult to isolate in higher assemblies.
This could create a much larger recall condition.
Just some comments.
David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
Jack Crawford wrote:
> IPC has become aware that the National Electronics Distributors
> Association (NEDA) has posted a white paper discussing the proposed
> lifting of date code restrictions and they have requested comments
> from end users as well as component suppliers and distributors. The
> paper can be viewed at http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html. Comments
> can be provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them and forward to
> NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly [log in to unmask], please cc: me
> on your reply
> [log in to unmask] ==========================================
>
> APEX 2003 - the industry's premier trade show in Electronics
> Manufacturing, March 31-April 2, 2003, Anaheim, California.
> More information on website www.goapex.org
> --------
> Jack Crawford, IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology
> 2215 Sanders Road, Northbrook IL 60062-6135
> [log in to unmask]
> 847-790-5393
> fax 847-504-2393
--------------9A6CBF01DB9B3CDD4EC37229
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px">
Jack,
<p>I agree with Steve's comments. The divergence between the commercial
and high reliability electronics is a very serious issue.
<br>Any proposal that effects configuration control must be carefully weighed.
Trying to save money no matter what the cost is a
<br>very easy trap to step into.
<p>Standardizing the date code process is needed.
<br>Use of date codes is needed for "life time" buys of COTS when obsolescence
problems are present.
<p>Configuration control issues can also cause problems with commercial
OEMs.
<br>Unless tracking methods are in place part failures by lot would be
difficult to isolate in higher assemblies.
<br>This could create a much larger recall condition.
<p>Just some comments.
<p>David A. Douthit
<br>Manager
<br>LoCan LLC
<p>Jack Crawford wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE> <font size=-2>IPC has become aware that the
National Electronics Distributors Association (NEDA) has posted a white
paper discussing the proposed lifting of date code restrictions and they
have requested comments from end users as well as component suppliers and
distributors. The paper can be viewed at <a href="http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html">http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html</a>.</font> <font size=-2>Comments
can be provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them and forward to
NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask],">[log in to unmask],</a>
please cc: me on your reply <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>.</font><font size=-2>Cordially</font><font size=-2>Jack</font> <font size=-2>==========================================</font>
<br><font size=-2>APEX 2003 - the industry's premier trade show in Electronics</font>
<br><font size=-2>Manufacturing, March 31-April 2, 2003, Anaheim, California.</font>
<br><font size=-2>More information on website <a href="http://www.goapex.org">www.goapex.org</a></font>
<br><font size=-2>--------</font>
<br><font size=-2>Jack Crawford, IPC Director of Assembly Standards and
Technology</font>
<br><font size=-2>2215 Sanders Road, Northbrook IL 60062-6135</font>
<br><font size=-2><a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a></font>
<br><font size=-2>847-790-5393</font>
<br><font size=-2>fax 847-504-2393</font></blockquote>
</body>
</html>
--------------9A6CBF01DB9B3CDD4EC37229--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:40:29 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Via Plug
X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I just did a calculation for some of our boards that use this via plug
material for enhancing thermal transfer between chips and thermal planes.
The calculation was to see by how much I would have to increase hole
plating thickness by in order to completely replace the epoxy in terms of
thermal conductivity.
I'm talking about a 24 mils diameter hole, plated initially to 1/2 oz
copper minimum and filled with epoxy. The board is 63 mils thick. Can you
guess what the increase is? ..... It's actually only 0.2 oz or 0.28 mils,
according to our thermal engineer. So why go to all the trouble and expense
of filling holes if the only purpose is thermal - a fairly small increase
in plating thickness is all that's needed.
Peter
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> 30/04/2002 05:49 AM
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to Earl Moon
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST Aero/ST Group)
Subject: Re: [TN] Via Plug
Don't mean to but in, but what the hell. Just think how much surface copper
would be plated and how much resist would have to be applied and how much
plating overhang would be involved even with several resist layers applied,
etc..
MoonMan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should
not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other
person. Thank you.]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:53:45 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Praveen Kumar <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Praveen Kumar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Mechanical Strength of Solder Joints
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
MIME-Version: 1.0
Hi All,
I am looking for a technical paper that details the mechanical strength of solder joints, BGAs in particular . In addition, are there any specifications in this regard?
I would really appreciate it if i could obtain a soft copy of the same.
Thanks and have a nice day.
Praveen
--
_______________________________________________
Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com
http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:57:37 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
fullname <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: fullname <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: DSO National Laboratories
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------2D0D0406916B255643800C8C"
--------------2D0D0406916B255643800C8C
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I agree with Steve strongly.
Without any date code, it is mission impossible to trace which batch of
the components failed.
Regards - Wee Mei
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> I guess my first question is; If the datecodes currently mean
> different things depending on the manufacturer, why not standardize
> what datecodes really mean rather than get rid of them?
>
> The paper talks about all the advances that have been made
> understanding root causes concerning solderability issues, improved
> storage and handling methods, etc., then why do I continue to get
> moisture sensitive components from distributors in un-sealed
> packaging? But that's another issue...
>
> A recent issue here at my facility underscores the importance of a
> datecode on the part. We build an assembly for a customer that uses
> three 240-pin QFP DSP's from a well known manufacturer. So far, we've
> built-up over 200 assemblies for our customer. We shipped the
> assemblies to our customer and they integrated them into the higher
> level assembly, and discovered they don't work...not communicating at
> all with the rest of the system.
>
> Numerous phone calls to the manufacturer trying to find out what the
> problem could be resulted in "Nothing has changed with the part, the
> die hasn't changed, nothing..."
> Funny thing was our first pre-production shipment of the assemblies
> worked fine!!
>
> After looking a little closer, the first lot of assemblies contained
> DSP's that had a datecode that was 2000 or earlier, everything that's
> failing are later...but still, according to the device manufacturer;
> "Nothing has changed..."
>
> If there wasn't a datecode on the part, we wouldn't know what we could
> put on the assemblies and work. There is a lot of effort being
> expended to try and isolate what the problem really is (with no help
> from the device supplier), but for now we need to find parts that work
> so that it doesn't shut down production, the only solid way (for now)
> is to find parts within a certain date code.
>
> Now I'm faced with the possible task of reworking 200 assemblies, each
> with three 240-pin QFP's, with a early datecode part...fun stuff I
> know.
>
> -Steve Gregory-
>
>
>
>> IPC has become aware that the National Electronics Distributors
>> Association (NEDA) has posted a white paper discussing the proposed
>> lifting of date code restrictions and they have requested comments
>> from end users as well as component suppliers and distributors. The
>> paper can be viewed at http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html.
>>
>> Comments can be provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them and
>> forward to NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly [log in to unmask],
>> please cc: me on your reply [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Cordially
>> Jack
>
>
>
--------------2D0D0406916B255643800C8C
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=-1>I agree with Steve strongly.</font></font><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=-1></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=-1>Without any date code, it
is mission impossible to trace which batch of the components failed.</font></font><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=-1></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=-1>Regards - Wee Mei</font></font>
<p>[log in to unmask] wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>I guess
my first question is; If the datecodes currently mean different things
depending on the manufacturer, why not standardize what datecodes really
mean rather than get rid of them?</font></font>
<p><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>The paper talks about all
the advances that have been made understanding root causes concerning solderability
issues, improved storage and handling methods, etc., then why do I continue
to get moisture sensitive components from distributors in un-sealed packaging?
But that's another issue...</font></font>
<p><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>A recent issue here at my
facility underscores the importance of a datecode on the part. We build
an assembly for a customer that uses three 240-pin QFP DSP's from a well
known manufacturer. So far, we've built-up over 200 assemblies for our
customer. We shipped the assemblies to our customer and they integrated
them into the higher level assembly, and discovered they don't work...not
communicating at all with the rest of the system.</font></font>
<p><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Numerous phone calls to the
manufacturer trying to find out what the problem could be resulted in "Nothing
has changed with the part, the die hasn't changed, nothing..."</font></font>
<br><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Funny thing was our first
pre-production shipment of the assemblies worked fine!!</font></font>
<p><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>After looking a little closer,
the first lot of assemblies contained DSP's that had a datecode that was
2000 or earlier, everything that's failing are later...but still, according
to the device manufacturer; "Nothing has changed..."</font></font>
<p><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>If there wasn't a datecode
on the part, we wouldn't know what we could put on the assemblies and work.
There is a lot of effort being expended to try and isolate what the problem
really is (with no help from the device supplier), but for now we need
to find parts that work so that it doesn't shut down production, the only
solid way (for now) is to find parts within a certain date code.</font></font>
<p><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>Now I'm faced with the possible
task of reworking 200 assemblies, each with three 240-pin QFP's, with a
early datecode part...fun stuff I know.</font></font>
<p><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size=-1>-Steve Gregory-</font></font>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-2>IPC
has become aware that the National Electronics Distributors Association
(NEDA) has posted a white paper discussing the proposed lifting of date
code restrictions and they have requested comments from end users as well
as component suppliers and distributors. The paper can be viewed at <a href="http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html">http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html</a>.</font></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-2>Comments can
be provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them and forward to NEDA.
If you comment to NEDA directly <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask],">[log in to unmask],</a>
please cc: me on your reply <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>.</font></font></font>
<p><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-2>Cordially</font></font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font color="#000000"><font size=-2>Jack</font></font></font></blockquote>
<br> </blockquote>
</html>
--------------2D0D0406916B255643800C8C--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:02:03 +0300
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jack
Although I'm not directly concerned, I read this paper and come to the
direct conclusion that the semiconductor industry are trying to weasel
out of their responsibilities.
"Twenty years ago, solderability problems were much more common than
today and certain metallurgical problems worsened over time, to the
extent that quality or reliability could have been compromised." These
guys are saying that the solderability of semiconductor packages - of
ALL types - will remain perfect: "The three year rule was adopted for
commercial procurement but is now irrelevant because of the
technological advances that the industry has made in the intervening
years.". I strongly dispute this assertion. It may be true that the
solderability of components has generally improved for fresh components
but it is not true that it will remain so for more than three years. Do
you know of any bare board fab shop that will guarantee the
solderability of all their products indefinitely?
The way I see this is that more emphasis will need to be placed on
goods-in testing of semiconductors for solderability and, perhaps, other
criteria, by the OEM, increasing his overheads, while the semiconductor
manufacturers rub their hands all the way to the bank, having weaseled
themselves out of their normal quality responsibilities.
On the other hand, I can see the difficulties that may be enegndered by
purchasers specifying dates. The easiest way of overcoming the problem,
IMHO, is for the semiconductor blokes to implement a substantial
surcharge on date-specific orders. This would have the double advantage
of encouraging assemblers not to specify dates except where they
consider it essential, for any reason, and it would cover the cost of
the extra hassle at the other end. Notwithstanding, I believe that if
the suppliers ship old packages, they should be prepared to cover the
extra cost to the assemblers if they do not meet full expectations of
quality, including solderability, cleanability, moisture absorption,
etc. This may also encourage them to ensure that very old inventory is
systematically replaced, because the cost of such guarantees would
probably exceed the value of most products.
Just some thoughts...
Best regards,
Brian
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:19:15 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
zhang shoukai <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: zhang shoukai <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: huawei technologies
Subject: The effect to printing from pas vs soldermask height
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1F06B.27717B40"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1F06B.27717B40
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64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------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1F06B.27717B40
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="gb2312"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64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------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C1F06B.27717B40--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:26:35 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Steve and David,
The paper doe not propose doign away with date codes. As stated in the
paper, manufacturers will continue to put date codes on parts. What they
ARE trying to do away with is customers demanding components younger than a
certain date code in order to avoid solderability issues due to ageing. The
paper is trying to make the point that in today's mature industry,
solderability issues have been addressed with advances in manufacturing
technology, handling and storage procedures, so the need to specify date
codes as well when ordering parts is not necessary (or should not be
necessary, especially for commercial manufacture). Basically, it seems,
distributors are fed up with having to sort through their stock to select
parts with specifically required date codes, when, they say, all the other
date codes are just as good. The paper is an attempt to highlight the
unnecessary sugar this puts in the petrol that drives a slick supply
system.
Having strictly marked the comprehension test like a good teacher, I'll add
my 2 cents worth. I'm in the Aerospace sector, so the paper does not
strictly relate to my area of business. However, I have had enough
experience, as Steve has, of components from particular date code batches
going sour. If this is a general problem, then the distributors and
manufacturers should be aware and remove faulty batches from the supply
chain stock, but one can never tell. So there are circumstances where being
able to specify particular date codes that are, or are not, suitable is a
necessary option to a purchasing department.
Further, although most of the industry is mature, some of it is not. There
are still firms that do not have, or cannot/will not afford the expense of
putting in expensive handling and storage facilities and procedures. These
companies, it may be argued, should be the first to be put against the wall
when the revolution comes, but nevertheless they're out here. This is not
directly relevant to the paper, as the authors will take the stand that
improper handling and storage that gives rise to solderability issues is
not the problem of the OEM's/distributors. It will be up to the companies
to ensure their handling and storage complies with recommendations given.
The paper does include a number of assumptions about the industry that may
be overlooking genuine problems that could appear if the paper's proposal
is introduced.
I'm taking the paper's contents more as a plea for realism, rather than a
hard plan to ban the stating of date codes as a requirement. It does, after
all, mention get-out clauses, such as contractual requirements that are
placed on a purchaser to only buy parts of specific date codes, so I don't
see it as anything to get too excited about.
So many words for 2 cents - shows what they're probably worth, eh?
Peter
David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> 30/04/2002 08:32 AM
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to David Douthit
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST Aero/ST Group)
Subject: Re: [TN] Proposed lifting of component date
code restrictions
Jack,
I agree with Steve's comments. The divergence between the commercial and
high reliability electronics is a very serious issue.
Any proposal that effects configuration control must be carefully weighed.
Trying to save money no matter what the cost is a
very easy trap to step into.
Standardizing the date code process is needed.
Use of date codes is needed for "life time" buys of COTS when obsolescence
problems are present.
Configuration control issues can also cause problems with commercial OEMs.
Unless tracking methods are in place part failures by lot would be
difficult to isolate in higher assemblies.
This could create a much larger recall condition.
Just some comments.
David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
Jack Crawford wrote:
IPC has become aware that the National Electronics Distributors
Association (NEDA) has posted a white paper discussing the proposed
lifting of date code restrictions and they have requested comments
from end users as well as component suppliers and distributors. The
paper can be viewed at http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html. Comments
can be provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them and forward to
NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly [log in to unmask], please cc: me
on your reply [log in to unmask]
==========================================
APEX 2003 - the industry's premier trade show in Electronics
Manufacturing, March 31-April 2, 2003, Anaheim, California.
More information on website www.goapex.org
--------
Jack Crawford, IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology
2215 Sanders Road, Northbrook IL 60062-6135
[log in to unmask]
847-790-5393
fax 847-504-2393
[This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the
intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should
not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other
person. Thank you.]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:44:01 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: fullname <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0046_01C1F012.69EC0E80"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C1F012.69EC0E80
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Traceability went out the window with cots. Used to maintain =
traceability to the second metallization layer. If a pilot crashed, =
his/her remains seldom recoverable but components were at times.
Earl
By the way, if you're out on the great American highways and byways, =
you'll notice almost as many trucks/truckers/f------, etc. Hell, they =
get paid 50 cents a mile and make nearly 50K a year. Whoopie shit, where =
do I sign up - truckmasters I think it is.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: fullname=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: [TN] Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
I agree with Steve strongly.=20
Without any date code, it is mission impossible to trace which batch =
of the components failed.=20
Regards - Wee Mei=20
[log in to unmask] wrote:=20
I guess my first question is; If the datecodes currently mean =
different things depending on the manufacturer, why not standardize what =
datecodes really mean rather than get rid of them?=20
The paper talks about all the advances that have been made =
understanding root causes concerning solderability issues, improved =
storage and handling methods, etc., then why do I continue to get =
moisture sensitive components from distributors in un-sealed packaging? =
But that's another issue...=20
A recent issue here at my facility underscores the importance of a =
datecode on the part. We build an assembly for a customer that uses =
three 240-pin QFP DSP's from a well known manufacturer. So far, we've =
built-up over 200 assemblies for our customer. We shipped the assemblies =
to our customer and they integrated them into the higher level assembly, =
and discovered they don't work...not communicating at all with the rest =
of the system.=20
Numerous phone calls to the manufacturer trying to find out what the =
problem could be resulted in "Nothing has changed with the part, the die =
hasn't changed, nothing..."=20
Funny thing was our first pre-production shipment of the assemblies =
worked fine!!=20
After looking a little closer, the first lot of assemblies contained =
DSP's that had a datecode that was 2000 or earlier, everything that's =
failing are later...but still, according to the device manufacturer; =
"Nothing has changed..."=20
If there wasn't a datecode on the part, we wouldn't know what we =
could put on the assemblies and work. There is a lot of effort being =
expended to try and isolate what the problem really is (with no help =
from the device supplier), but for now we need to find parts that work =
so that it doesn't shut down production, the only solid way (for now) is =
to find parts within a certain date code.=20
Now I'm faced with the possible task of reworking 200 assemblies, =
each with three 240-pin QFP's, with a early datecode part...fun stuff I =
know.=20
-Steve Gregory-=20
=20
=20
IPC has become aware that the National Electronics Distributors =
Association (NEDA) has posted a white paper discussing the proposed =
lifting of date code restrictions and they have requested comments from =
end users as well as component suppliers and distributors. The paper can =
be viewed at http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html.=20
Comments can be provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them =
and forward to NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly [log in to unmask], =
please cc: me on your reply [log in to unmask]
Cordially=20
Jack
=20
------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C1F012.69EC0E80
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Traceability went out the window with =
cots. Used to=20
maintain traceability to the second metallization layer. If a pilot =
crashed,=20
his/her remains seldom recoverable but components were at =
times.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>By the way, if you're out on the great =
American=20
highways and byways, you'll notice almost as many =
trucks/truckers/f------, etc.=20
Hell, they get paid 50 cents a mile and make nearly 50K a year. Whoopie =
shit,=20
where do I sign up - truckmasters I think it is.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">fullname</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask]
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 30, 2002 =
1:57=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Proposed =
lifting of=20
component date code restrictions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica><FONT size=3D-1>I agree =
with Steve=20
strongly.</FONT></FONT><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica><FONT =
size=3D-1></FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica><FONT size=3D-1>Without any date code, =
it is=20
mission impossible to trace which batch of the components=20
failed.</FONT></FONT><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica><FONT =
size=3D-1></FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial,Helvetica><FONT size=3D-1>Regards - Wee =
Mei</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D-1>I guess my=20
first question is; If the datecodes currently mean different things=20
depending on the manufacturer, why not standardize what datecodes =
really=20
mean rather than get rid of them?</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D-1>The paper talks =
about all the=20
advances that have been made understanding root causes concerning=20
solderability issues, improved storage and handling methods, etc., =
then why=20
do I continue to get moisture sensitive components from distributors =
in=20
un-sealed packaging? But that's another issue...</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D-1>A recent issue here =
at my=20
facility underscores the importance of a datecode on the part. We =
build an=20
assembly for a customer that uses three 240-pin QFP DSP's from a =
well known=20
manufacturer. So far, we've built-up over 200 assemblies for our =
customer.=20
We shipped the assemblies to our customer and they integrated them =
into the=20
higher level assembly, and discovered they don't work...not =
communicating at=20
all with the rest of the system.</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D-1>Numerous phone calls =
to the=20
manufacturer trying to find out what the problem could be resulted =
in=20
"Nothing has changed with the part, the die hasn't changed,=20
nothing..."</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D-1>Funny=20
thing was our first pre-production shipment of the assemblies worked =
fine!!</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D-1>After looking a =
little closer,=20
the first lot of assemblies contained DSP's that had a datecode that =
was=20
2000 or earlier, everything that's failing are later...but still, =
according=20
to the device manufacturer; "Nothing has changed..."</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D-1>If there wasn't a =
datecode on=20
the part, we wouldn't know what we could put on the assemblies and =
work.=20
There is a lot of effort being expended to try and isolate what the =
problem=20
really is (with no help from the device supplier), but for now we =
need to=20
find parts that work so that it doesn't shut down production, the =
only solid=20
way (for now) is to find parts within a certain date =
code.</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D-1>Now I'm faced with =
the possible=20
task of reworking 200 assemblies, each with three 240-pin QFP's, =
with a=20
early datecode part...fun stuff I know.</FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D-1>-Steve =
Gregory-</FONT></FONT>=20
<BR> <BR> =20
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff =
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT =
size=3D-2>IPC has=20
become aware that the National Electronics Distributors =
Association (NEDA)=20
has posted a white paper discussing the proposed lifting of date =
code=20
restrictions and they have requested comments from end users as =
well as=20
component suppliers and distributors. The paper can be viewed at =
<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html">http://www.nedassoc.org/wh=
itedat.html</A>.</FONT></FONT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT =
size=3D-2>Comments can be=20
provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them and forward to =
NEDA. If=20
you comment to NEDA directly <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask],">[log in to unmask],</A> please =
cc: me on=20
your reply <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>.</FONT></FO=
NT></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT=20
size=3D-2>Cordially</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#000000><FONT=20
=
size=3D-2>Jack</FONT></FONT></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </BLOCKQUOT=
E></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C1F012.69EC0E80--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 05:57:17 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
Pardon my ettiquiteee. This post should not have happened. I keep forgetting
I can reply from my outlook thing.
MoonMan
Actually, the first part about costs should apply, not the truck driving
stuff though I'll see you, little girl in your bright red convertible, down
the road soon if the economy gets worse.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 05:58:58 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The effect to printing from pas vs soldermask height
X-To: [log in to unmask]
Never had a problem with thousands of OSP/OCC boards non solder mask defined.
MoonMan
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:01:46 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Via Plug
X-To: [log in to unmask]
Peter,
As you say, no big change. Always used holes, especially on board edges say
1/4" wide copper strips, as heat pipes for convection and conduction to a
cold wall. Also used mounting "studs" elsewhere when castings used so heat
could be conducted to the casting from various hot areas in various board
locations.
Earl
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:13:17 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1F048.CB28E110"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F048.CB28E110
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
I wonder how long it would take the component manufacturers to start marking
date codes again if a problem was found within a part and they either had to
test everything they had to sort out the problem and throw everything away
and start over? I agree that having the suppliers sort for date codes
because of assumed solderability problems is a problem but there really
needs to be a date code.
KennyB
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F048.CB28E110
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=889570813-30042002>I
wonder how long it would take the component manufacturers to start marking date
codes again if a problem was found within a part and they either had to test
everything they had to sort out the problem and throw everything away and start
over? I agree that having the suppliers sort for date codes because of
assumed solderability problems is a problem but there really needs to be a date
code.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=889570813-30042002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=889570813-30042002>KennyB</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F048.CB28E110--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:45:18 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_207DDF1A.7C1D70F4"
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=_207DDF1A.7C1D70F4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
There are many instances in everyone's career where we sorted by or found =
problems with date codes. Many times that was the only sort criteria. =
Just got bit again from a broker for a very old part, just finished our =
450 PC rework. =20
It also makes me very concerned having been in serious medical device =
assembly. Now the proposal would allow what ever date code out and lose =
that traceability for the next generation of pacemakers and various other =
life support systems or military applications like a shuttle. The =
manufacturer's may know more about handling, processing, etc but the =
distributors don't know nor do the brokers. =20
Not one manufacturer out there is always providing 100% quality, there are =
problems. The only thing that can make this a possibility in my mind =
would be if the manufacturers are going to support all parts when an issue =
comes up and the financial burden to remove all from inventory instead of =
a specific batch. =20
Don't let them lose the date code that we all have come to depend on.
Kathy =20
--=_207DDF1A.7C1D70F4
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2715.400" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px">
<DIV>There are many instances in everyone's career where we sorted by or found
problems with date codes. Many times that was the only sort
criteria. Just got bit again from a broker for a very old part, just
finished our 450 PC rework. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It also makes me very concerned having been in serious medical device
assembly. Now the proposal would allow what ever date code out and lose
that traceability for the next generation of pacemakers and various other life
support systems or military applications like a shuttle. The
manufacturer's may know more about handling, processing, etc but the
distributors don't know nor do the brokers. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Not one manufacturer out there is always providing 100% quality, there are
problems. The only thing that can make this a possibility in my mind would
be if the manufacturers are going to support all parts when an issue comes up
and the financial burden to remove all from inventory instead of a specific
batch. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Don't let them lose the date code that we all have come to depend on.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
--=_207DDF1A.7C1D70F4--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:34:32 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1F054.245BCE40"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F054.245BCE40
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
hi,
why doesn't neda encourage their members to offer two levels of pricing... one for orders that include date code requirements and one for orders that don't? the distributors can present the risks/benefits to their customers. i guess i'm too jaded to think that the distributors have anyone's interest at heart other than theirs. i suppose that eventually we will be told that it will be in our interest to eliminate date code requirements altogether.
phil
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F054.245BCE40
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=510362814-30042002>hi,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=510362814-30042002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=510362814-30042002>why
doesn't neda encourage their members to offer two levels of pricing... one for
orders that include date code requirements and one for orders that don't?
the distributors can present the risks/benefits to their customers. i
guess i'm too jaded to think that the distributors have anyone's interest at
heart other than theirs. i suppose that eventually we will be told that it
will be in our interest to eliminate date code requirements
altogether.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=510362814-30042002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=510362814-30042002>phil</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT
lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F054.245BCE40--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:42:03 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
bbarr <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: bbarr <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1F03C.0C79D6E0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1F03C.0C79D6E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Please everyone, before there is mass hysteria, go back and reread the
paper. Nobody is proposing doing away with date codes! Just the practice of
ordering specific date codes unless there is a good reason for it.
Bob
=======================
Robert Barr
Manufacturing Engineering
Formation, Inc.
Voice: 856-234-5020 x3035
Fax: 856-234-6679
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jack Crawford
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
IPC has become aware that the National Electronics Distributors
Association (NEDA) has posted a white paper discussing the proposed lifting
of date code restrictions and they have requested comments from end users as
well as component suppliers and distributors. The paper can be viewed at
http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html.
Comments can be provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them and
forward to NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly [log in to unmask], please
cc: me on your reply [log in to unmask]
Cordially
Jack
==========================================
APEX 2003 - the industry's premier trade show in Electronics
Manufacturing, March 31-April 2, 2003, Anaheim, California.
More information on website www.goapex.org
--------
Jack Crawford, IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology
2215 Sanders Road, Northbrook IL 60062-6135
[log in to unmask]
847-790-5393
fax 847-504-2393
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1F03C.0C79D6E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV><SPAN class=3D420073915-30042002><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please =
everyone,=20
before there is mass hysteria, go back and reread the paper. Nobody is =
proposing=20
doing away with date codes! Just the practice of ordering specific date =
codes=20
unless there is a good reason for it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT =
size=3D2>Bob<BR><BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>Robert=20
Barr<BR>Manufacturing Engineering<BR>Formation, Inc.<BR>Voice: =
856-234-5020=20
x3035<BR>Fax: 856-234-6679 </FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Jack =
Crawford<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Monday, April 29, 2002 4:54 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Proposed lifting of component =
date=20
code restrictions<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>IPC has become aware that t</FONT><FONT =
size=3D1>he National=20
Electronics Distributors Association (NEDA) has posted a white paper=20
discussing the proposed lifting of date code restrictions and they =
have=20
requested comments from end users as well as component suppliers and=20
distributors. The paper can be viewed at <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html">http://www.nedassoc.org/wh=
itedat.html</A>.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Comments can be provided to me on or off net; =
we'll compile=20
them and forward to NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask],">[log in to unmask],</A> please =
cc: me on=20
your reply <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>.<BR></FONT>=
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Cordially</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Jack</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT =
size=3D1>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>APEX =
2003 -=20
the industry's premier trade show in Electronics<BR>Manufacturing, =
March=20
31-April 2, 2003, Anaheim, California.<BR>More information on website =
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.goapex.org">www.goapex.org</A><BR>--------<BR>Jack =
Crawford,=20
IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology<BR>2215 Sanders =
Road,=20
Northbrook IL 60062-6135<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> =
<BR>847-790-5393<BR>fax=20
847-504-2393</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1F03C.0C79D6E0--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:03:44 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Mel Parrish <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mel Parrish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Just for grins, how many have run into variation in component materials and
processes such as a different die source, adhesives, process profiles, cure,
etc. within a specific date code?
Scary, isn't it.
Mel Parrish
Soldering Technology International
102 Tribble Drive
Madison, AL 35758
256 705 5530
256 705 5538 Fax
[log in to unmask]
www.solderingtech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Kathy Kuhlow
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 8:45 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
There are many instances in everyone's career where we sorted by or found
problems with date codes. Many times that was the only sort criteria. Just
got bit again from a broker for a very old part, just finished our 450 PC
rework.
It also makes me very concerned having been in serious medical device
assembly. Now the proposal would allow what ever date code out and lose
that traceability for the next generation of pacemakers and various other
life support systems or military applications like a shuttle. The
manufacturer's may know more about handling, processing, etc but the
distributors don't know nor do the brokers.
Not one manufacturer out there is always providing 100% quality, there are
problems. The only thing that can make this a possibility in my mind would
be if the manufacturers are going to support all parts when an issue comes
up and the financial burden to remove all from inventory instead of a
specific batch.
Don't let them lose the date code that we all have come to depend on.
Kathy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:05:54 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TPCA Show 2002 and Forum
X-To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
X-cc: David Bergman <[log in to unmask]>,
Mary Tunk <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The following message is posted at the request of David Bergman, IPC VP =
Standards, Technology and International Relations. IPC is secretariate for =
World Electronics Circuit Council (WECC). More info on IPC website, =
search on WECC; here are a couple of shortcuts http://www.ipc.org/html/june=
99edit.htm and http://www.ipc.org/html/apr00edit.htm=20
Please contact Mary Tunk to receive the call for papers (attachments are =
stripped off the forum msgs) and let me know if you have questions.
Cordially
Jack
#############
Dear Colleagues,
Subject: WECC Member Booth Stand in WECC Corner at TPCA Show 2002
We are going to have TPCA Show 2002 at Taipei World Trade Center (TWTC) =
Exhibition Hall 1 and 2 from Oct 31. to Nov. 2, 2002. We warmly invite =
you all the WECC member associations to the third TPCA Show this year. =
Also, I would like to know if your association wishes to have a booth =
stand at TPCA Show 2002 in the WECC corner. If your association would =
like to have more booth, or wishes to have a new space, please let me know =
as soon as possible. [log in to unmask]
Besides, please see the call for paper of TPCA Show 2002 Forum and help us =
to forward that to your members.
Thanks for your kind attention. We are looking forward to seeing you in =
TPCA Show Taipei.
Best regards,
Kevin Wang
TPCA
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:27:07 -0500
Reply-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kari Rambo <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Altron Inc
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The paper is not suggesting that date codes be eliminated; only that
restrictions not be put on components with respect to date codes. For
example, many companies have policies stating if the date code indicates
components are more than a year old, the component must be rejected. The
white paper suggests that because of the advances in manufacturing and
storing the components, they don't "get old" anymore, and that the date
code doesn't really indicate the age of the component anyway (since the
coding is not standardized). For these reasons, it is suggested that date
code restrictions should not be placed on components.
I don't believe the paper is implying that traceability could also be
eliminated.
(If it is, they're nuts).
kjr
-----Original Message-----
From: Bloomquist, Ken [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 8:13 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
I wonder how long it would take the component manufacturers to start
marking
date codes again if a problem was found within a part and they either had
to
test everything they had to sort out the problem and throw everything away
and start over? I agree that having the suppliers sort for date codes
because of assumed solderability problems is a problem but there really
needs to be a date code.
KennyB
<< File: ATT00007.html >>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 11:46:49 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dave Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Jack! Just a comment echoing the TechNet chorus - a component date code
is a tracking number which serves a multitude of purposes of which
solderability aspects are just one specific issue. I am also quite
skeptical of the white paper viewpoint of solderability being a "well
understood" and "controlled" topic - if that were the case then why are
there so many participants in the JSTD-002 committee involving the IPC,
EIA, and JEDEC associations? Heavens knows I would like to work on other
issues than solderability but I believe the white paper is offering a very,
very skewed viewpoint of solderability issues within the electronic
assembly industry.
Dave Hillman
JSTD 002A CoChairman
[log in to unmask]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:11:54 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: bbarr <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0044_01C1F048.99A7B120"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C1F048.99A7B120
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The proposal would relieve semi-conductor manufactures and distrubutors from
keeping track of date codes once they were "in the supply chain". This
would make it more difficult and expensive to get semiconductors
manufactured before or after a specific date for any reason . . . I can
think of many.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of bbarr
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:42 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
Please everyone, before there is mass hysteria, go back and reread the
paper. Nobody is proposing doing away with date codes! Just the practice of
ordering specific date codes unless there is a good reason for it.
Bob
=======================
Robert Barr
Manufacturing Engineering
Formation, Inc.
Voice: 856-234-5020 x3035
Fax: 856-234-6679
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jack Crawford
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
IPC has become aware that the National Electronics Distributors
Association (NEDA) has posted a white paper discussing the proposed lifting
of date code restrictions and they have requested comments from end users as
well as component suppliers and distributors. The paper can be viewed at
http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html.
Comments can be provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them and
forward to NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly [log in to unmask], please
cc: me on your reply [log in to unmask]
Cordially
Jack
==========================================
APEX 2003 - the industry's premier trade show in Electronics
Manufacturing, March 31-April 2, 2003, Anaheim, California.
More information on website www.goapex.org
--------
Jack Crawford, IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology
2215 Sanders Road, Northbrook IL 60062-6135
[log in to unmask]
847-790-5393
fax 847-504-2393
------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C1F048.99A7B120
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: =
2px">
<DIV><FONT size=3D1><SPAN class=3D203100117-30042002>The proposal would =
relieve=20
semi-conductor manufactures and distrubutors from keeping track of date =
codes=20
once they were "in the supply chain". This would make it more =
difficult=20
and expensive to get semiconductors manufactured before or after a =
specific date=20
for any reason . . . I can think of many. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of</B> bbarr<BR><B>Sent:</B> =
Tuesday,=20
April 30, 2002 11:42 AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:=20
[TN] Proposed lifting of component date code =
restrictions<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D420073915-30042002><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Please everyone,=20
before there is mass hysteria, go back and reread the paper. Nobody is =
proposing doing away with date codes! Just the practice of ordering =
specific=20
date codes unless there is a good reason for it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT =
size=3D2>Bob<BR><BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>Robert=20
Barr<BR>Manufacturing Engineering<BR>Formation, Inc.<BR>Voice: =
856-234-5020=20
x3035<BR>Fax: 856-234-6679 </FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Jack =
Crawford<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Monday, April 29, 2002 4:54 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Proposed lifting of =
component date=20
code restrictions<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>IPC has become aware that t</FONT><FONT =
size=3D1>he National=20
Electronics Distributors Association (NEDA) has posted a white paper =
discussing the proposed lifting of date code restrictions and they =
have=20
requested comments from end users as well as component suppliers and =
distributors. The paper can be viewed at <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html">http://www.nedassoc.org/wh=
itedat.html</A>.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Comments can be provided to me on or off net; =
we'll=20
compile them and forward to NEDA. If you comment to NEDA =
directly <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask],">[log in to unmask],</A> please =
cc: me=20
on your reply <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>.<BR></FONT>=
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Cordially</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Jack</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT =
size=3D1>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>APEX =
2003 -=20
the industry's premier trade show in Electronics<BR>Manufacturing, =
March=20
31-April 2, 2003, Anaheim, California.<BR>More information on =
website <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.goapex.org">www.goapex.org</A><BR>--------<BR>Jack=20
Crawford, IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology<BR>2215 =
Sanders=20
Road, Northbrook IL 60062-6135<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> =
<BR>847-790-5393<BR>fax=20
847-504-2393</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C1F048.99A7B120--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:04:13 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: Mel Parrish <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Many times and more so recently. Sorry, no grins here.
MoonMan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mel Parrish" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
> Just for grins, how many have run into variation in component materials
and
> processes such as a different die source, adhesives, process profiles,
cure,
> etc. within a specific date code?
> Scary, isn't it.
>
> Mel Parrish
> Soldering Technology International
> 102 Tribble Drive
> Madison, AL 35758
> 256 705 5530
> 256 705 5538 Fax
> [log in to unmask]
> www.solderingtech.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Kathy Kuhlow
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 8:45 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
>
>
> There are many instances in everyone's career where we sorted by or found
> problems with date codes. Many times that was the only sort criteria.
Just
> got bit again from a broker for a very old part, just finished our 450 PC
> rework.
>
> It also makes me very concerned having been in serious medical device
> assembly. Now the proposal would allow what ever date code out and lose
> that traceability for the next generation of pacemakers and various other
> life support systems or military applications like a shuttle. The
> manufacturer's may know more about handling, processing, etc but the
> distributors don't know nor do the brokers.
>
> Not one manufacturer out there is always providing 100% quality, there are
> problems. The only thing that can make this a possibility in my mind
would
> be if the manufacturers are going to support all parts when an issue comes
> up and the financial burden to remove all from inventory instead of a
> specific batch.
>
> Don't let them lose the date code that we all have come to depend on.
>
> Kathy
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:09:00 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Mel Parrish <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mel Parrish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: PWB Fab Resource
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Looking for a fine pitch board fab resource for matte Sn.
Appreciate any information you may have and I'm available offline.
Mel Parrish
Soldering Technology International
102 Tribble Drive
Madison, AL 35758
256 705 5530
256 705 5538 Fax
[log in to unmask]
www.solderingtech.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:16:43 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
James TerVeen <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: James TerVeen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: bbarr <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Bob, I do agree with you. The way I read this white paper is they want to
eliminate the use on date codes when ordering a part. They say nothing
about eliminating the date code. Your take on this document is right on.
Jim
bbarr
<bbarr@FORMATI To: [log in to unmask]
ON.COM> cc:
Sent by: Subject: Re: [TN] Proposed lifting of
TechNet component date code restrictions
<[log in to unmask]
RG>
04/30/02 11:42
AM
Please respond
to "TechNet
E-Mail
Forum.";
Please respond
to bbarr
Please everyone, before there is mass hysteria, go back and reread the
paper. Nobody is proposing doing away with date codes! Just the practice of
ordering specific date codes unless there is a good reason for it.
Bob
=======================
Robert Barr
Manufacturing Engineering
Formation, Inc.
Voice: 856-234-5020 x3035
Fax: 856-234-6679
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jack Crawford
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
IPC has become aware that the National Electronics Distributors
Association (NEDA) has posted a white paper discussing the proposed
lifting of date code restrictions and they have requested comments from
end users as well as component suppliers and distributors. The paper can
be viewed at http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html.
Comments can be provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them and
forward to NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly [log in to unmask], please
cc: me on your reply [log in to unmask]
Cordially
Jack
==========================================
APEX 2003 - the industry's premier trade show in Electronics
Manufacturing, March 31-April 2, 2003, Anaheim, California.
More information on website www.goapex.org
--------
Jack Crawford, IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology
2215 Sanders Road, Northbrook IL 60062-6135
[log in to unmask]
847-790-5393
fax 847-504-2393
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:29:43 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Richard Carruth <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
If manufacturers continue to provide date codes for their products but
distributors discontinue tracking and segregation by date codes the result will
be, mixed date code lots sent to the customer. In many cases assembly houses
that use raw components must capture suspect material by date code. In the event
of field failures or customer defects resulting in corrective action
requirements it is usually imperative to know the problem parts date code to
cover effectivity. I feel that the date codes application should be
standardized. I have also seen where we needed to specifically order certain
date codes because the later date code product did not function properly for the
application.
On the topic of old components verses new components. I have personally seen
some pretty old, nasty components from brokers that appeared to have been
previously used and some that were so oxidized that the leads were nearly black.
So the solderability of 3 or more year old components is a concern. Date codes
need to be standardized and tracked to ensure product quality and
accountability.
Regards,
Richard Carruth
Quality Engineer
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:55:25 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Gaby Bogdan <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Gaby Bogdan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="Boundary_(ID_vke/nhduJ4clxWR29vd4hw)"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_vke/nhduJ4clxWR29vd4hw)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Also, all components??
Today I dealt with a very trivial connector, solderability problems on specific batch, identified by date code.
Advances, technology, et caetera... how much time would it have taken without the date code?
Gaby
----- Original Message -----
From: David Douthit
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:32 AM
Subject: Re: [TN] Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
Jack,
I agree with Steve's comments. The divergence between the commercial and high reliability electronics is a very serious issue.
Any proposal that effects configuration control must be carefully weighed. Trying to save money no matter what the cost is a
very easy trap to step into.
Standardizing the date code process is needed.
Use of date codes is needed for "life time" buys of COTS when obsolescence problems are present.
Configuration control issues can also cause problems with commercial OEMs.
Unless tracking methods are in place part failures by lot would be difficult to isolate in higher assemblies.
This could create a much larger recall condition.
Just some comments.
David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
Jack Crawford wrote:
IPC has become aware that the National Electronics Distributors Association (NEDA) has posted a white paper discussing the proposed lifting of date code restrictions and they have requested comments from end users as well as component suppliers and distributors. The paper can be viewed at http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html. Comments can be provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them and forward to NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly [log in to unmask], please cc: me on your reply [log in to unmask] ==========================================
APEX 2003 - the industry's premier trade show in Electronics
Manufacturing, March 31-April 2, 2003, Anaheim, California.
More information on website www.goapex.org
--------
Jack Crawford, IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology
2215 Sanders Road, Northbrook IL 60062-6135
[log in to unmask]
847-790-5393
fax 847-504-2393
--Boundary_(ID_vke/nhduJ4clxWR29vd4hw)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px"
bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Also, all components??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Today I dealt with a very trivial connector,
solderability problems on specific batch, identified by date code.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Advances, technology, et caetera... how much time
would it have taken without the date code?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Gaby</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">David Douthit</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask]
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:32
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Proposed lifting of
component date code restrictions</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Jack,
<P>I agree with Steve's comments. The divergence between the commercial
and high reliability electronics is a very serious issue. <BR>Any proposal
that effects configuration control must be carefully weighed. Trying to save
money no matter what the cost is a <BR>very easy trap to step into.
<P>Standardizing the date code process is needed. <BR>Use of date codes is
needed for "life time" buys of COTS when obsolescence problems are present.
<P>Configuration control issues can also cause problems with commercial OEMs.
<BR>Unless tracking methods are in place part failures by lot would be
difficult to isolate in higher assemblies. <BR>This could create a much larger
recall condition.
<P>Just some comments.
<P>David A. Douthit <BR>Manager <BR>LoCan LLC
<P>Jack Crawford wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE"> <FONT size=-2>IPC has become aware that the
National Electronics Distributors Association (NEDA) has posted a white
paper discussing the proposed lifting of date code restrictions and they
have requested comments from end users as well as component suppliers and
distributors. The paper can be viewed at <A
href="http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html">http://www.nedassoc.org/whitedat.html</A>.</FONT> <FONT
size=-2>Comments can be provided to me on or off net; we'll compile them and
forward to NEDA. If you comment to NEDA directly <A
href="mailto:[log in to unmask],">[log in to unmask],</A> please cc: me on
your reply <A
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>.</FONT><FONT
size=-2>Cordially</FONT><FONT size=-2>Jack</FONT> <FONT
size=-2>==========================================</FONT> <BR><FONT
size=-2>APEX 2003 - the industry's premier trade show in Electronics</FONT>
<BR><FONT size=-2>Manufacturing, March 31-April 2, 2003, Anaheim,
California.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=-2>More information on website <A
href="http://www.goapex.org">www.goapex.org</A></FONT> <BR><FONT
size=-2>--------</FONT> <BR><FONT size=-2>Jack Crawford, IPC Director of
Assembly Standards and Technology</FONT> <BR><FONT size=-2>2215 Sanders
Road, Northbrook IL 60062-6135</FONT> <BR><FONT size=-2><A
href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A></FONT> <BR><FONT
size=-2>847-790-5393</FONT> <BR><FONT size=-2>fax
847-504-2393</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_vke/nhduJ4clxWR29vd4hw)--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:43:35 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
always had a hard time with distributors and certs. no traceability possible
often. no test data concerning solderability or whatever. customers partly
to blame as price drives the whole thing with no recourse.
moonman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Carruth" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:29 PM
Subject: [TN] Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
> If manufacturers continue to provide date codes for their products but
> distributors discontinue tracking and segregation by date codes the result
will
> be, mixed date code lots sent to the customer. In many cases assembly
houses
> that use raw components must capture suspect material by date code. In the
event
> of field failures or customer defects resulting in corrective action
> requirements it is usually imperative to know the problem parts date code
to
> cover effectivity. I feel that the date codes application should be
> standardized. I have also seen where we needed to specifically order
certain
> date codes because the later date code product did not function properly
for the
> application.
>
> On the topic of old components verses new components. I have personally
seen
> some pretty old, nasty components from brokers that appeared to have been
> previously used and some that were so oxidized that the leads were nearly
black.
> So the solderability of 3 or more year old components is a concern. Date
codes
> need to be standardized and tracked to ensure product quality and
> accountability.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Carruth
> Quality Engineer
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 15:21:58 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Via Plug
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Peter
That's exactly what I was getting at. Most of our applications for CB-100
are for filled vias that need to be plated over to provide a solderable
surface and/or prevent solder from running out the bottom end of the via.
> ----------
> From: [log in to unmask][SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;[log in to unmask]
> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 5:40 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Via Plug
>
> I just did a calculation for some of our boards that use this via plug
> material for enhancing thermal transfer between chips and thermal planes.
> The calculation was to see by how much I would have to increase hole
> plating thickness by in order to completely replace the epoxy in terms of
> thermal conductivity.
>
> I'm talking about a 24 mils diameter hole, plated initially to 1/2 oz
> copper minimum and filled with epoxy. The board is 63 mils thick. Can you
> guess what the increase is? ..... It's actually only 0.2 oz or 0.28 mils,
> according to our thermal engineer. So why go to all the trouble and
> expense
> of filling holes if the only purpose is thermal - a fairly small increase
> in plating thickness is all that's needed.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> 30/04/2002 05:49 AM
> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to Earl Moon
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST Aero/ST Group)
> Subject: Re: [TN] Via Plug
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Don't mean to but in, but what the hell. Just think how much surface
> copper
> would be plated and how much resist would have to be applied and how much
> plating overhang would be involved even with several resist layers
> applied,
> etc..
>
> MoonMan
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
>
>
>
>
> [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not
> the
> intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should
> not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other
> person. Thank you.]
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:29:48 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Vacuum sealing equipment...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi All!
Our McDry dessicant cabinets have just been over-populated recently due to
having to open vendor-sealed packages looking for certain DATECODE
parts...(hmmm, this subject seems familiar for some odd reason...)
Anyhoo, we've got a regular thermal sealer here, but we have now seen the
need for a vacuum sealer...
A vacuum sealer just gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that air has
been sucked out of the packaging with a dessicant packed in there with the
parts, sealed off from the outside world as we know it, and they're slowly
suffocating, slowly.. slowly..slowly. The moisture being steadily drained
from their lifeless and uncaring souls...HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!
Ahem, 'scuse me. Kinda' got carried away there, didn't I? Didn't mean
to...really...my job isn't getting to me, it really isn't...honest.
I did a search and got a gazillion hits for vacuum sealers, do any of you
have one that you can recommend and like, to help me from having to make too
many decisions?
'preciate it!!!
-Steve Gregory-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:02:00 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: Mel Parrish <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mel,
Careful, configuration control is a very touchy subject!!!
David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
Mel Parrish wrote:
> Just for grins, how many have run into variation in component materials and
> processes such as a different die source, adhesives, process profiles, cure,
> etc. within a specific date code?
> Scary, isn't it.
>
> Mel Parrish
> Soldering Technology International
> 102 Tribble Drive
> Madison, AL 35758
> 256 705 5530
> 256 705 5538 Fax
> [log in to unmask]
> www.solderingtech.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Kathy Kuhlow
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 8:45 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
>
> There are many instances in everyone's career where we sorted by or found
> problems with date codes. Many times that was the only sort criteria. Just
> got bit again from a broker for a very old part, just finished our 450 PC
> rework.
>
> It also makes me very concerned having been in serious medical device
> assembly. Now the proposal would allow what ever date code out and lose
> that traceability for the next generation of pacemakers and various other
> life support systems or military applications like a shuttle. The
> manufacturer's may know more about handling, processing, etc but the
> distributors don't know nor do the brokers.
>
> Not one manufacturer out there is always providing 100% quality, there are
> problems. The only thing that can make this a possibility in my mind would
> be if the manufacturers are going to support all parts when an issue comes
> up and the financial burden to remove all from inventory instead of a
> specific batch.
>
> Don't let them lose the date code that we all have come to depend on.
>
> Kathy
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:10:13 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proposed lifting of component date code restrictions
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------6250E4B547CBBED67430FC62"
--------------6250E4B547CBBED67430FC62
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dave,
Thank you for this; I believe the white paper is offering a very,
very skewed viewpoint of solderability issues within the electronic
assembly industry.
Self serving papers are all over the place. Some, such as this one, can create
massive problems if followed. Unfortunalty certain management types
(particularly in the current business climate) will grab anything that looks good.
This wastes time that we can ill afford.
David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
Dave Hillman wrote:
> Hi Jack! Just a comment echoing the TechNet chorus - a component date code
> is a tracking number which serves a multitude of purposes of which
> solderability aspects are just one specific issue. I am also quite
> skeptical of the white paper viewpoint of solderability being a "well
> understood" and "controlled" topic - if that were the case then why are
> there so many participants in the JSTD-002 committee involving the IPC,
> EIA, and JEDEC associations? Heavens knows I would like to work on other
> issues than solderability but I believe the white paper is offering a very,
> very skewed viewpoint of solderability issues within the electronic
> assembly industry.
>
> Dave Hillman
> JSTD 002A CoChairman
> [log in to unmask]
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------6250E4B547CBBED67430FC62
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Dave,
<p>Thank you for this; <i>I believe the white paper is offering a very,</i>
<br><i>very skewed viewpoint of solderability issues within the electronic</i>
<br><i>assembly industry.</i><i></i>
<p>Self serving papers are all over the place. Some, such as this one,
can create
<br>massive problems if followed. Unfortunalty certain management types
<br>(particularly in the current business climate) will grab anything that
looks good.
<br>This wastes time that we can ill afford.
<p>David A. Douthit
<br>Manager
<br>LoCan LLC
<br>
<br>
<p>Dave Hillman wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Hi Jack! Just a comment echoing the TechNet chorus
- a component date code
<br>is a tracking number which serves a multitude of purposes of which
<br>solderability aspects are just one specific issue. I am also quite
<br>skeptical of the white paper viewpoint of solderability being a "well
<br>understood" and "controlled" topic - if that were the case then why
are
<br>there so many participants in the JSTD-002 committee involving the
IPC,
<br>EIA, and JEDEC associations? Heavens knows I would like to work on
other
<br>issues than solderability but I believe the white paper is offering
a very,
<br>very skewed viewpoint of solderability issues within the electronic
<br>assembly industry.
<p>Dave Hillman
<br>JSTD 002A CoChairman
<br>[log in to unmask]
<p>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
<br>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in
<br>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
<br>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet NOMAIL
<br>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:
SET Technet Digest
<br>Search the archives of previous posts at: <a href="http://listserv.ipc.org/archives">http://listserv.ipc.org/archives</a>
<br>Please visit IPC web site <a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>
for additional
<br>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
<br>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</blockquote>
</html>
--------------6250E4B547CBBED67430FC62--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:14:12 EDT
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: A "NEDA" Oriented label...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Was given a image of a label on packaging that's out there as we speak, as
something that would be more wide-spread if NEDA has their way...go to:
http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com
and look at NEDA label.jpg...
Really helps, doesn't it?
-Steve Gregory-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------