Steve, For your, hopefully not my, teeny-tiny double sided SMT MLB assemblies I either punt or do as you say with the knife. That is why you love it - for sure. That is why I love it, or not but always fight, as you, the dummies accepting the job in the first place and the dumb ass designers bowing to either management or total ignorance. I try never to have to build those type boards, and sure fight not to do them, especially without tooling holes and a multiple fixturing system, as a carrier, placed on the routing surface. For sure, being on the design end currently with a similar board, I won't allow the design not to be routed and I'm fighting that issue right now. Can't afford the broken part rework and/or delamination at the edges. What a luxury, eh? Of course, with the board you describe, I can't imagine getting a pizza chattering, tearing, dull bladed thing in there either, hence the exacto munndo knife. As for your last comment, and well said, I have a young production, purchasing, document control, or not, manager condeming the whole damn electronics industry because of more than the stuff we're discussing. Carlile, you looking in? Enjoy the design, fab, CM, test world we're in, or not. Hell, I can't imagine another world but, then, I have nothing else or not that I can remember or do anymore. Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------