--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:01:09 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob)" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob)" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Earl, As others have stated, the 10X picture looks like there was never intended to be a ball there. Maybe it is the lower mag and a trick of the lighting that makes it look that way. Anyway, on the other pics it looks a lot like a clean fracture right at the intermetallic layer. Is the underlying metal nickel? Was the BGA fabricator using ENIG as a solderability coating prior to the attachment of the balls? Could this be another case of "black pad"? I know we have had instances where this has been the case. Very low level identified, but who knows how many times the actual cause is overlooked. As with the ENIG issue on PWB surfaces, some suppliers may be able to completely eliminate the problem, others may have it at a low level, and the unfortunate few may be plagued with this problem. Just some questions you might want to check in to. Thanks, Robert Furrow Printed Wiring Board Engineer Supply Chain Networks Lucent Technologies 978-960-3224 [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:31 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a question... Jim, BGA's used to be my best friend, except for Arleen Weinberger and other ladies of extreme beauty and brains. Now they are a bain, if tha's a proper term. It's like the whole BGA world has gone to hell. Even board suppliers are starting to suck who once had my total faith and confidence based on constant evaluation, re-evaluation, and qualification. At least now I have a compadre in this mess. Thanks for sharing the gief but I'm honestly stumped but for an undying dedication to gettin this damn thing resolved. The TI thing was bad enough but now another major supplier adds to the MESS. Did you give us your paper and/or its location? I'm reading all I can, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, notwithstanding posting my brains and guts out on this site. Hell, even Sir Werner and his cohorts can't do much. It has to be up to the suppliers to come forth. Thought I was working concurrently with TI. Now I'm not sure again, and haven't even begun talking with the other major supplier with whom my last pics are associated. Your statement about "Every time there was a component failure, it was attributed to an open BGA solder joint" sure used to ring true but was resolved, for a time. It seems now to be coming back. Sorry about your, hopefully healed black eye, but should not have been the case. However, some should suffer such a fate based on your thoughts about how the missing ball attachment area looked compared to mine. This solder "remnant" crap is exactly my problem and others soon to experience it. All other surface conditions point to some process management inadequacies and someone knows what they are and what are the failure modes/mechanisms. Just looks like unsolderable surfaces to me and whatever happened to the IMC layer whether too thick, too thin, or just plane way to oxidized. My progress is limited to a very small company resource capability. The company has spent way too much time and money doing minimal analysis. Who the hell could afford to do more anyway. Like Sir Werner says, this crap is just being thrown over the fence for all us ROOKIES to suck through a garden hose. I don't do that. I believe you're right about the nickel gold thing. What else could it be. TI even admitted one of its suppliers was replaced to do a better job. That hasn't been proven yet either. Maybe Friday it will when we get our first assemblies. We'll ge to the bottom, and I do mean bottom, of this soon but maybe not soon enough for some. Thanks JM for some outstanding insights. Finally feels a bit, though sadly, comforting having someone else having gone through this. Earl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:08:12 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, James TerVeen <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: James TerVeen <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: BGA's X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In the telecommunications business (if there is any left) the interface between tthe socket and BGA will effect the performance of the component. That is why they require it to be soldered to the board. michael.kuczynski@P HILIPS.COM To: [log in to unmask] Sent by: TechNet cc: <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [TN] BGA's 03/13/02 08:58 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to michael.kuczynski But the sockets are the same size (maybe slightly larger) as the BGA. The sockets I'm referring to are SMT. The device itself is 27mm sq, the skt. we are to use is 27.53mm sq. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:12:41 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Unfortunately, my paper is hard copy only, published for an internal seminar. That doesn't mean that It's proprietary. I'll see if I can scan it in and send it to you. Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: Earl Moon [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:38 AM To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... Where's yours? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:12:09 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim: Pursuant to the discussion... Have you been able to prove that there was insufficient gold immersion on this board via the first article submitted with the date code tracking from the board supplier? I would feel that your theory would be substantiated with this as your empirical back-up. Do you require all lots to be submitted with a sample board/cross-section etc? I have much interest in determining "smoking gun" flags for de-wetting incidences. This appears to be an indicator does it not? Charlie McMahon Marsico, James wrote: >Earl, I looked at your pictures of missing solder balls and share your >grief. This looks exactly what I've been seeing occasionally on our CBGAs >when removed from an assembly. BTW, someone on Technet had referenced a >paper regarding the produciblility and reliability issues of ceramic BGAs in >a military environment, well that was authored by yours truly. Anyway, >using BGAs at my company was a hard sell, but I did it. The components we >use aren't off-the-shelf devices, but are custom made. Every time there was >a component failure, it was attributed to an open BGA solder joint. Many >BGAs were painstakingly removed (these boards are bonded to a rather large >composite restraining core) and replaced. I think I still have sort of a >black eye for pushing the BGA technology. Occasionally our Test Engineers >were actually able to pin-point the exact solder joint of the suspected >open. Upon removal, low and behold the ball location of the open joint >looked exactly like your photos. All other ball locations had remnants of >solder. I wasn't able to do much to analyze for root cause, since, being an >OEM, the program management didn't want to spend money to research the >cause. They were happy to just replace the components. My theory? >Insufficient gold plating protecting the Ni barrier layer, causing the Ni to >oxidize resulting in a marginal solder ball attachment. Nothing to >substantiate this, just a hunch. How are you making out? Any progress? > >Jim Marsico >Senior Engineer >Production Engineering >EDO Electronics Systems Group >[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >631-595-5879 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 2:24 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a question... > > Hey all! > > The pictures of Earls missing balls are up! Go to: > > http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com > > ...and I have a question that's off topic here. What is a good fluid >to use in your printer stencil cleaner? We have a DEK 288 and we use no >clean paste. > > Thanks! > > -Steve Gregory- > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:20:59 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Proof of insufficient gold? Who needs proof? Kyocera's dimpled BGA package drawings call out for a gold thickness of 25 microinches maximum! Don't really know how much there is. Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: Charles McMahon [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 9:12 AM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.; Marsico, James Subject: Re: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a question... Jim: Pursuant to the discussion... Have you been able to prove that there was insufficient gold immersion on this board via the first article submitted with the date code tracking from the board supplier? I would feel that your theory would be substantiated with this as your empirical back-up. Do you require all lots to be submitted with a sample board/cross-section etc? I have much interest in determining "smoking gun" flags for de-wetting incidences. This appears to be an indicator does it not? Charlie McMahon Marsico, James wrote: >Earl, I looked at your pictures of missing solder balls and share your >grief. This looks exactly what I've been seeing occasionally on our CBGAs >when removed from an assembly. BTW, someone on Technet had referenced a >paper regarding the produciblility and reliability issues of ceramic BGAs in >a military environment, well that was authored by yours truly. Anyway, >using BGAs at my company was a hard sell, but I did it. The components we >use aren't off-the-shelf devices, but are custom made. Every time there was >a component failure, it was attributed to an open BGA solder joint. Many >BGAs were painstakingly removed (these boards are bonded to a rather large >composite restraining core) and replaced. I think I still have sort of a >black eye for pushing the BGA technology. Occasionally our Test Engineers >were actually able to pin-point the exact solder joint of the suspected >open. Upon removal, low and behold the ball location of the open joint >looked exactly like your photos. All other ball locations had remnants of >solder. I wasn't able to do much to analyze for root cause, since, being an >OEM, the program management didn't want to spend money to research the >cause. They were happy to just replace the components. My theory? >Insufficient gold plating protecting the Ni barrier layer, causing the Ni to >oxidize resulting in a marginal solder ball attachment. Nothing to >substantiate this, just a hunch. How are you making out? Any progress? > >Jim Marsico >Senior Engineer >Production Engineering >EDO Electronics Systems Group >[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >631-595-5879 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 2:24 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a question... > > Hey all! > > The pictures of Earls missing balls are up! Go to: > > http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com > > ...and I have a question that's off topic here. What is a good fluid >to use in your printer stencil cleaner? We have a DEK 288 and we use no >clean paste. > > Thanks! > > -Steve Gregory- > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:25:57 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" A couple of people have commented now about the missing ball looking like it never intended to be there in the first picture and I just have to speak up. At first I thought it was the corner ball as well, but I looked a little closer and about 5 rows up on the outside edge, there is clearly a pad with no ball. I believe this is the location Earl is talking about. Unfortunately I have no information to add to the discussion on how to deal with this, but I wanted to make sure that the people that can interpret the pictures get all the info out of the pictures that they can. -----Original Message----- From: Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: March 13, 2002 8:01 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a question... Earl, As others have stated, the 10X picture looks like there was never intended to be a ball there. Maybe it is the lower mag and a trick of the lighting that makes it look that way. Anyway, on the other pics it looks a lot like a clean fracture right at the intermetallic layer. Is the underlying metal nickel? Was the BGA fabricator using ENIG as a solderability coating prior to the attachment of the balls? Could this be another case of "black pad"? I know we have had instances where this has been the case. Very low level identified, but who knows how many times the actual cause is overlooked. As with the ENIG issue on PWB surfaces, some suppliers may be able to completely eliminate the problem, others may have it at a low level, and the unfortunate few may be plagued with this problem. Just some questions you might want to check in to. Thanks, Robert Furrow Printed Wiring Board Engineer Supply Chain Networks Lucent Technologies 978-960-3224 [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:31 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a question... Jim, BGA's used to be my best friend, except for Arleen Weinberger and other ladies of extreme beauty and brains. Now they are a bain, if tha's a proper term. It's like the whole BGA world has gone to hell. Even board suppliers are starting to suck who once had my total faith and confidence based on constant evaluation, re-evaluation, and qualification. At least now I have a compadre in this mess. Thanks for sharing the gief but I'm honestly stumped but for an undying dedication to gettin this damn thing resolved. The TI thing was bad enough but now another major supplier adds to the MESS. Did you give us your paper and/or its location? I'm reading all I can, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, notwithstanding posting my brains and guts out on this site. Hell, even Sir Werner and his cohorts can't do much. It has to be up to the suppliers to come forth. Thought I was working concurrently with TI. Now I'm not sure again, and haven't even begun talking with the other major supplier with whom my last pics are associated. Your statement about "Every time there was a component failure, it was attributed to an open BGA solder joint" sure used to ring true but was resolved, for a time. It seems now to be coming back. Sorry about your, hopefully healed black eye, but should not have been the case. However, some should suffer such a fate based on your thoughts about how the missing ball attachment area looked compared to mine. This solder "remnant" crap is exactly my problem and others soon to experience it. All other surface conditions point to some process management inadequacies and someone knows what they are and what are the failure modes/mechanisms. Just looks like unsolderable surfaces to me and whatever happened to the IMC layer whether too thick, too thin, or just plane way to oxidized. My progress is limited to a very small company resource capability. The company has spent way too much time and money doing minimal analysis. Who the hell could afford to do more anyway. Like Sir Werner says, this crap is just being thrown over the fence for all us ROOKIES to suck through a garden hose. I don't do that. I believe you're right about the nickel gold thing. What else could it be. TI even admitted one of its suppliers was replaced to do a better job. That hasn't been proven yet either. Maybe Friday it will when we get our first assemblies. We'll ge to the bottom, and I do mean bottom, of this soon but maybe not soon enough for some. Thanks JM for some outstanding insights. Finally feels a bit, though sadly, comforting having someone else having gone through this. Earl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:18:49 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Cleaning Baskets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello Technet, I'm looking for alternative-style baskets / methods to prevent damage (rips parts off) double-sided boards. I thinking of having our st.st. baskets coated with plastic. Background: I usually place the boards directly on the in-line cleaner's conveyor (which also has a top/hold-down conveyor). I had a board that we thought may get damaged without placing in a basket (24" x 20" x 1.75" with 1/4" mesh). However, any slight movement - either during loading/unloading or cleaning - rips off the higher profile smt parts. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance for your help, Al Kreplick Sr. Mfg. Eng. Teradyne, Inc. 500 Riverpark Drive North Reading, MA 01864 Tel: 978-370-1726 Fax: 734-661-5352 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:20:34 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Howard Watson <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Howard Watson <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Soft Beam Soldering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0054199487256B7B_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0054199487256B7B_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone have experience with a Panasonic Soft Beam soldering system for through hole selective soldering? I am interested in any comments, good or bad, that would help steer me towards/away from this machine. If desired, please contact me off line. Thanks in advance. Howard Watson Manufacturing Engineer AMETEK/Dixson --=_alternative 0054199487256B7B_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Does anyone have experience with a Panasonic Soft Beam soldering system for through hole selective soldering? I am interested in any comments, good or bad, that would help steer me towards/away from this machine. If desired, please contact me off line. Thanks in advance.</font> <br> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Howard Watson<br> Manufacturing Engineer<br> AMETEK/Dixson</font> --=_alternative 0054199487256B7B_=-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:44:39 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: question... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/12/2002 6:43:20 PM US Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: << I meant fluid to use with the underside stencil cleaning with the onboard system on our printer. >> I used SMT Stencil Cleaner from JNJ and it worked well for me. There are so many different formulations of no-clean, you really have to test your chemistry to know for sure. Jon Moore --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:17:01 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Carl Ray <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Carl Ray <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Solder Joint Mechanical Stress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a customer who is requiring that I verify the bond strength of a heat sink that is glued to the top of PBGA. The customer has supplied me with a torque tool to verify the strength of the bond between the heat sink and the BGA. I have concerns that testing the strength of the glue bond may affect the solder joint reliability of the BGA. The tool supplied by the customer is set at 20 in pound torque. Any ideas how I can "change" my customer mind? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:32:07 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Soft Beam Soldering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have used a Soft-Beam system for some limited rework as well as a medium quantity production, in-line operation. The key factors for using this system included temperature sensitivity for surrounding components, high thermal mass in the solder joints that needed selective soldering, components that could be easily fixtured after insertion so that they did not fall out when the board is inverted for the Soft-Beam operation. In general the Soft-Beam performed fairly well. The biggest hassle was the calibration of the shutter cycle as the bulb aged. Since that bulb reduces in output over time, a calibration routine is required to ensure the process remains stable. For our process control limits, running the system 24/7, that meant running calibration weekly on a new bulb, 2x weekly in mid bulb life and 3-4x weekly toward the end of bulb life. Solder joint quality looked good in both visual inspection and cross-section. The ability to preheat each joint before applying solder helped. Of course that also adds to cycle time. Jon Moore --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:40:01 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Cleaning Baskets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been down the road of parts being ripped off or at least damaged during wash. We found the root of our problem to be a difference in the movements of top and bottom chain belts. Sometimes one or the other would hang up a little, then surge forward as it released. The relative difference in motion with the board caught in the middle was doing the damage. We ended up completely removing the top belts in all of our washes. Jon Moore --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:46 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <A71205756C62D411B06900B0D03DC136B1C289@CONNECTOR> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please note that the actual pictures were of 1 of the 4 defective parts. Each part had different balls missing. One note was that the balls were missing from the exterior row of balls on all 4 parts. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Genny Gibbard Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 9:26 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a question... A couple of people have commented now about the missing ball looking like it never intended to be there in the first picture and I just have to speak up. At first I thought it was the corner ball as well, but I looked a little closer and about 5 rows up on the outside edge, there is clearly a pad with no ball. I believe this is the location Earl is talking about. Unfortunately I have no information to add to the discussion on how to deal with this, but I wanted to make sure that the people that can interpret the pictures get all the info out of the pictures that they can. -----Original Message----- From: Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: March 13, 2002 8:01 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a question... Earl, As others have stated, the 10X picture looks like there was never intended to be a ball there. Maybe it is the lower mag and a trick of the lighting that makes it look that way. Anyway, on the other pics it looks a lot like a clean fracture right at the intermetallic layer. Is the underlying metal nickel? Was the BGA fabricator using ENIG as a solderability coating prior to the attachment of the balls? Could this be another case of "black pad"? I know we have had instances where this has been the case. Very low level identified, but who knows how many times the actual cause is overlooked. As with the ENIG issue on PWB surfaces, some suppliers may be able to completely eliminate the problem, others may have it at a low level, and the unfortunate few may be plagued with this problem. Just some questions you might want to check in to. Thanks, Robert Furrow Printed Wiring Board Engineer Supply Chain Networks Lucent Technologies 978-960-3224 [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:31 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a question... Jim, BGA's used to be my best friend, except for Arleen Weinberger and other ladies of extreme beauty and brains. Now they are a bain, if tha's a proper term. It's like the whole BGA world has gone to hell. Even board suppliers are starting to suck who once had my total faith and confidence based on constant evaluation, re-evaluation, and qualification. At least now I have a compadre in this mess. Thanks for sharing the gief but I'm honestly stumped but for an undying dedication to gettin this damn thing resolved. The TI thing was bad enough but now another major supplier adds to the MESS. Did you give us your paper and/or its location? I'm reading all I can, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, notwithstanding posting my brains and guts out on this site. Hell, even Sir Werner and his cohorts can't do much. It has to be up to the suppliers to come forth. Thought I was working concurrently with TI. Now I'm not sure again, and haven't even begun talking with the other major supplier with whom my last pics are associated. Your statement about "Every time there was a component failure, it was attributed to an open BGA solder joint" sure used to ring true but was resolved, for a time. It seems now to be coming back. Sorry about your, hopefully healed black eye, but should not have been the case. However, some should suffer such a fate based on your thoughts about how the missing ball attachment area looked compared to mine. This solder "remnant" crap is exactly my problem and others soon to experience it. All other surface conditions point to some process management inadequacies and someone knows what they are and what are the failure modes/mechanisms. Just looks like unsolderable surfaces to me and whatever happened to the IMC layer whether too thick, too thin, or just plane way to oxidized. My progress is limited to a very small company resource capability. The company has spent way too much time and money doing minimal analysis. Who the hell could afford to do more anyway. Like Sir Werner says, this crap is just being thrown over the fence for all us ROOKIES to suck through a garden hose. I don't do that. I believe you're right about the nickel gold thing. What else could it be. TI even admitted one of its suppliers was replaced to do a better job. That hasn't been proven yet either. Maybe Friday it will when we get our first assemblies. We'll ge to the bottom, and I do mean bottom, of this soon but maybe not soon enough for some. Thanks JM for some outstanding insights. Finally feels a bit, though sadly, comforting having someone else having gone through this. Earl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:52 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Solder Joint Mechanical Stress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_E7BA59BD.5D3C51A2" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_E7BA59BD.5D3C51A2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Couldn't you take the BGA and the heatsink loose and perform this test? If = you could think of a manner in which to hold the BGA when trying to pull = the heat sink off then you wouldn't have to play with a soldered BGA. = Word of warning about the load cell of the torque tester, I had done some = testing where we were testing the sheer strength of SMT adhesives and used = a torque tester. We blew the load cell of the tester by over stressing = the tester beyond the max limits. It turned out to be an expensive sheer = test. =20 Kathy --=_E7BA59BD.5D3C51A2 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px"> <DIV>Couldn't you take the BGA and the heatsink loose and perform this test? If you could think of a manner in which to hold the BGA when trying to pull the heat sink off then you wouldn't have to play with a soldered BGA. Word of warning about the load cell of the torque tester, I had done some testing where we were testing the sheer strength of SMT adhesives and used a torque tester. We blew the load cell of the tester by over stressing the tester beyond the max limits. It turned out to be an expensive sheer test. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kathy</DIV></BODY></HTML> --=_E7BA59BD.5D3C51A2-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:44:01 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: BGA's X-To: [log in to unmask] Mike, I appologize for the too terse off hand remark. Real estate no matter now small and, as the other fine gentleman said, electrical performance. I must say, with all this, not one damn thing does any good if balls simply fall off parts whether in sockets or on boards. Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:51:43 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Solder Joint Mechanical Stress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would try to establish a set of process parameters to show the customer repeatable performance using scrap or dummy parts, then show proof of holding those same process parameters on actual production parts. That way you demonstrate statistical conformance to their requirement without risking damage to production parts, which should be easy to present as a win-win situation to an intelligent customer. Jon Moore --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:52:40 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: [log in to unmask] Bob, I appreciate you input. All I know, after seeing some and fairly extensive analysis done on the TI parts, including TI, no objective answers were/are forthcoming. Upon discovering a similar issue, as previously stated, with another major supplier, I'm at a loss but for surface appearances. I think JM and a vew others have stated applies. There are teeny weeny, to go along with my balls, little solder fragments/slivers/spikes, or whatever, remaining behind on some surface condition not known to man. No raton cohones aqui but certainly there - at suppliers. I just sent a response to Big Dan about why things sometimes fall apart in a recessionary period: Dan, It's really simple and I discuss this issue with many folks. The economy is in a dumper. When it all started going south, management in all its incredible wisdom always fires the wrong people. They fire workers and engineeris most closely involved in making quality product. All that's left are the middle managers who have lost touch with manufacturing operations but are now expected to manage and get out on the floor once again. Bad situation not getting better. STIRRING A REAL BIG POT WITH A TEENY WEENY SPOON. Where's my silver one Kathy? MoonNoBigSilverSpoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:54:04 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Krug, Dick" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Krug, Dick" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Glue Dot Size X-To: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We dispense glue using a positive displacement pump. Dot diameter for 0603's is nominally 20 mils. Dot diameter for 0805's is nominally 28 mils. Dick Krug Sypris Electronics -----Original Message----- From: Vinit Verma [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:19 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Glue Dot Size Hi All, Has anyone ever worked with the Pump Printing Stencil for printing glue on pre-inserted PCBs?? This stencil is developed by DEK but I'm not too sure of how it works? Any experiences? Also would be too kind if somebody could tell me the glue size requirement for 0603 and 0805 components? Thanks in advance Regards Vinit Verma ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:55:49 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: [log in to unmask] There's a logical answer. Too little gold. Nickel oxidizes. Surface won't solder. The question is how to get a TI, or whoever, to fess up and tell us how much of anything is on their device substrates? MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:57:23 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: [log in to unmask] exaclty --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:59:23 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: [log in to unmask] Thanks Genny --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:02:46 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]> Thanks Ken for the clarification. I just want people to know they will be dealing with your dumb ass instead of mine next week. Watch out folks, KC is one tough, smart, knowledgeable, experienced dude. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:12:00 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Solder Joint Mechanical Stress X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" hi, this reminds me of a situation we were in several years ago when we were using pin grid arrays. the customer required that we microsection the first, middle, and last assemblies coming out of the wave solder machine, so that we could verify that we were getting acceptable solder fillets on both sides of the pga plated-through-holes. i suggested that our lot size should be three. this would enable us to assemble these boards forever. unfortunately, no one here thought that was a good idea. what you could do is ship your assemblies with the bga's sheared off, but with the heat sinks still attached to the bga's. this would enable you to build these parts forever. i've got a feeling though that this wouldn't be acceptable, but it would get the attention of your customer. phil -----Original Message----- From: Carl Ray [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:17 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Solder Joint Mechanical Stress I have a customer who is requiring that I verify the bond strength of a heat sink that is glued to the top of PBGA. The customer has supplied me with a torque tool to verify the strength of the bond between the heat sink and the BGA. I have concerns that testing the strength of the glue bond may affect the solder joint reliability of the BGA. The tool supplied by the customer is set at 20 in pound torque. Any ideas how I can "change" my customer mind? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:14:15 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Solder Joint Mechanical Stress X-To: Carl Ray <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carl: If the customer is not adamant at testing a finished assembly, can you suggest using a sample board as a test platform and assembling the HEAT SINK on it for the boind strength test? My bet is you may have already reviewed this option but thoght it worth mentioning. Carl Ray wrote: >I have a customer who is requiring that I verify the bond strength of a >heat sink that is glued to the top of PBGA. The customer has supplied me >with a torque tool to verify the strength of the bond between the heat >sink and the BGA. I have concerns that testing the strength of the glue >bond may affect the solder joint reliability of the BGA. The tool >supplied by the customer is set at 20 in pound torque. Any ideas how I >can "change" my customer mind? > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:18:34 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Soft Beam Soldering X-To: Howard Watson <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii we have look at it live and video, looks good wish we could persue it more. Have them do some actual production with it for you before you buy. They were prepaired to do some contract work if we wanted. Good luck! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:21:21 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_D5886B84.22432EDD" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_D5886B84.22432EDD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Moon man,=20 If I got you a silver spoon you would find something about the silver = plating to bitch about. I have decided to go through the extra effort and = I got you a Wendy's spork. =20 Kathy=20 --=_D5886B84.22432EDD Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px"> <DIV>Moon man, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I got you a silver spoon you would find something about the silver plating to bitch about. I have decided to go through the extra effort and I got you a Wendy's spork. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML> --=_D5886B84.22432EDD-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:30:01 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Moon, I'm afraid I have to agree, only I put it a little more simply; it's the Gold. The root causation is the thing books are made of... and the bottom line it could be as simple as Operator Error. Am I over simplifying or is it becoming clear that HASL or any solder coat just won't work, the OSPs tend to puddle in fine geometry's (like BGA lands), folks aren't real secure with Tin (although I think its very nice), and ENIG is unpredictable. Hence, I like Silver. Please, someone correct me on this conjecture. And by-the-way, Moonman this is excellent insight and I thank you for the input. I sincerely do empathize with your plight. My folks got back to me with the standard ENIG answers I expected; watch your phos, keep superb records, be a process zealot, etc. We have not had a problem with ENIG (knock on wood), but is that a ticking sound I hear? Boston Brad --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:35:55 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Solder Joint Mechanical Stress MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have them sign a liability statement pursuant to that one component. Then, sell them on your well founded concern and move them to verifying the process on a sample. This sounds like the ole "this is the best conclusive test, although it has the propensity to kill the patients." Sincerely do the test with a BGA in hand, not at the product level. Good luck, Brad --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:41:45 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Cleaning Baskets X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Al! Check this website - these folks make a nice basket(s) in a variety of shapes: www.artcraftwelding.com Dave Hillman Rockwell Collins [log in to unmask] [log in to unmask]@ipc.org> on 03/13/2002 09:18:49 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to [log in to unmask] Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: [TN] Cleaning Baskets Hello Technet, I'm looking for alternative-style baskets / methods to prevent damage (rips parts off) double-sided boards. I thinking of having our st.st. baskets coated with plastic. Background: I usually place the boards directly on the in-line cleaner's conveyor (which also has a top/hold-down conveyor). I had a board that we thought may get damaged without placing in a basket (24" x 20" x 1.75" with 1/4" mesh). However, any slight movement - either during loading/unloading or cleaning - rips off the higher profile smt parts. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance for your help, Al Kreplick Sr. Mfg. Eng. Teradyne, Inc. 500 Riverpark Drive North Reading, MA 01864 Tel: 978-370-1726 Fax: 734-661-5352 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:13:34 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Michael Meltzer <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Michael Meltzer <[log in to unmask]> Subject: unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <45EC695FE212D311A49D0000D11BAF7C053C6E4E@MBRC02> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" -- unsubscribe --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:17:38 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Solder Joint Mechanical Stress X-To: Carl Ray <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds like a crazy idea to me, 20 inch-pounds sounds like a heck of a lot. I wonder what the bond strength between the copper and the laminate would be. The land pattern make a fairly small surface area. Even if you don't rip the component of the lands you might rip the lands off the board. > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Carl Ray > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 11:17 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Solder Joint Mechanical Stress > > > I have a customer who is requiring that I verify the bond strength of a > heat sink that is glued to the top of PBGA. The customer has supplied me > with a torque tool to verify the strength of the bond between the heat > sink and the BGA. I have concerns that testing the strength of the glue > bond may affect the solder joint reliability of the BGA. The tool > supplied by the customer is set at 20 in pound torque. Any ideas how I > can "change" my customer mind? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:18:07 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: [log in to unmask] ritht on and boogie on bb --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:20:25 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Kathy, I will accept nothing less from you than silver. You promised and your remember. Wendy's is like my parts without balls. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:29:27 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Bill Raymond <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Bill Raymond <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Glue Dot Size X-To: "Krug, Dick" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask] > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed We stencil print with 8 mil thick stainless steel stencils... 0603 = 20 mil dia and 0805 = 28 mil dia bill... At 11:54 AM 03/13/2002 -0500, you wrote: >We dispense glue using a positive displacement pump. >Dot diameter for 0603's is nominally 20 mils. >Dot diameter for 0805's is nominally 28 mils. >Dick Krug >Sypris Electronics > >-----Original Message----- >From: Vinit Verma [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:19 AM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: [TN] Glue Dot Size > > >Hi All, > >Has anyone ever worked with the Pump Printing Stencil for printing glue on >pre-inserted PCBs?? This stencil is developed by DEK but I'm not too sure of >how it works? Any experiences? > >Also would be too kind if somebody could tell me the glue size requirement >for 0603 and 0805 components? > >Thanks in advance > >Regards >Vinit Verma > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----- >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET >Technet NOMAIL >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > >E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 >ext.5315 >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----- > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: >SET Technet NOMAIL >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > >E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 >ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:34:36 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Soldering crimp connectors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We have a customer who insists that we solder our crimp connectors (after crimping). He has had corrosion problems and is convinced that this is the best solution. Is this a good thing? Are there any downsides we should point out to help educate him? Carl Van Wormer Cipher Systems 1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010 Beaverton, OR 97006 Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:53:06 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, jim <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: jim <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Cleaning Baskets X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Checkout www.gscusa.net 972-494-1911. We make a variety of baskets with all types of custom configurations. Chcuk Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [TN] Cleaning Baskets > Hi Al! Check this website - these folks make a nice basket(s) in a variety > of shapes: > > www.artcraftwelding.com > > Dave Hillman > Rockwell Collins > [log in to unmask] > > > > > [log in to unmask]@ipc.org> on 03/13/2002 09:18:49 AM > > Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond > to [log in to unmask] > > Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> > > > To: [log in to unmask] > cc: > > Subject: [TN] Cleaning Baskets > > > Hello Technet, > > I'm looking for alternative-style baskets / methods to prevent damage (rips > parts off) double-sided boards. I thinking of having our st.st. baskets > coated with plastic. > > Background: I usually place the boards directly on the in-line cleaner's > conveyor (which also has a top/hold-down conveyor). I had a board that we > thought may get damaged without placing in a basket (24" x 20" x 1.75" with > 1/4" mesh). However, any slight movement - either during loading/unloading > or cleaning - rips off the higher profile smt parts. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks in advance for your help, > > > Al Kreplick > Sr. Mfg. Eng. > Teradyne, Inc. > 500 Riverpark Drive > North Reading, MA 01864 > Tel: 978-370-1726 > Fax: 734-661-5352 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:56:10 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Romero, David [MMI/BOU]" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Romero, David [MMI/BOU]" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Soldering crimp connectors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well any time you introduce additional metals to a connection you are actually increasing your risk of galvanic corrosion. Depending on the design of the connector in question there are probably some purely mechanical concerns as well. The connector manufacturer will almost certainly have recommended uses. They would probably be your best bet. It might end up just being a mechanical tolerance or malleability issue. Good Luck -----Original Message----- From: Carl VanWormer [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 12:35 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Soldering crimp connectors We have a customer who insists that we solder our crimp connectors (after crimping). He has had corrosion problems and is convinced that this is the best solution. Is this a good thing? Are there any downsides we should point out to help educate him? Carl Van Wormer Cipher Systems 1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010 Beaverton, OR 97006 Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:04:55 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Test Method/Qual Report X-cc: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Technetters, Looking for a report titled "Performance Test Methods and Qualification Requirements for Surface Mount Solder Attachments". Sounds like an IPC document but can't track it down. Anyone know where I can look? Thanks, Jeff Ferry CEO Circuit Technology Center, Inc. www.circuittechctr.com [log in to unmask] 978-374-5000 Sign up for our Free E-mail Newsletter at: www.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:17:24 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Soldering crimp connectors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carl, This ought to stir the pot! In my thirty plus years in this business I've seen arguments both ways. In my current life we will solder after crimping lugs which carry high = current. An argument could also be made for using a moisture barrier like = "No-alox" as used in electrical wiring with aluminum conductors. My late father-in-law used Vaseline on all the electrical connections = for his comm-nav gear on his motorboat to prevent the salt from = corroding the connections. The point here is there may be a good reason for any of the combinations = listed here or by my peers. Just one man's opinion. Phil Nutting -----Original Message----- From: Carl VanWormer [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:35 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Soldering crimp connectors We have a customer who insists that we solder our crimp connectors = (after crimping). He has had corrosion problems and is convinced that this is = the best solution. Is this a good thing? Are there any downsides we should point out to help educate him? Carl Van Wormer Cipher Systems 1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010 Beaverton, OR 97006 Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases = > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 = ext.5315 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:23:23 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, James TerVeen <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: James TerVeen <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Soldering crimp connectors X-To: Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You know it just sounds like a great place for flux entrapment and all kinds of nasty stuff that will happen. As far as I have ever seen if you have crimp connectors then that is what you do. As for corrosion, it seems like he would have more with soldered wires as well as cracking problems. I think the best place to start is at the connector manufacturer they should give all the reasons not to solder Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask] To: [log in to unmask] OM> cc: Sent by: Subject: [TN] Soldering crimp connectors TechNet <[log in to unmask] RG> 03/13/02 02:34 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to Carl VanWormer We have a customer who insists that we solder our crimp connectors (after crimping). He has had corrosion problems and is convinced that this is the best solution. Is this a good thing? Are there any downsides we should point out to help educate him? Carl Van Wormer Cipher Systems 1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010 Beaverton, OR 97006 Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:22:33 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Test Method/Qual Report X-To: Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]> Jeff, It's not my place but Sir Werner will be very displeased with you and me concerning 9701. Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:34:32 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Test Method/Qual Report X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Earl, Oops. Should have looked a bit harder. There it is staring me in the face. Humble apologies to Werner. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 3:23 PM To: [log in to unmask]; Jeff Ferry Subject: Re: Test Method/Qual Report Jeff, It's not my place but Sir Werner will be very displeased with you and me concerning 9701. Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:41 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Gary Camac <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Gary Camac <[log in to unmask]> Organization: Dickey-john Corp. Subject: Vertical Storage MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Good afternoon everyone, Can anyone give me the name of a company that markets used vertical storage carousels. Thanks in advance Gary Camac --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:22:24 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Ted Tontis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ted Tontis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: South East Milwaukee designers chapter's e-mail X-To: "IPC Designers council (E-mail)" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The Milwaukee designers chapter now has an e-mail forum. The instruction are the same as the rest of IPC's forum's. Example for subscribing: TO: [log in to unmask] SUBJECT: MESSAGE: subscribe [log in to unmask] Joseph H. Smith Posting to the forum: To send a message to all the people currently subscribed to the forum, just send mail to [log in to unmask] . Example for signing off: TO: [log in to unmask] SUBJECT: MESSAGE: signoff [log in to unmask] Ted Tontis C.I.D. Engage Networks, Inc. 1320 N. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Drive River Level Milwaukee, WI 53212 PH 414-918-4267 FX 414-273-7601 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:44:28 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Crain, Bob" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Crain, Bob" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: High Rel BGA Guidelines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We may soon be adding BGAs to our approved parts list for some programs. We use polyamide boards and require electrical test under vibration and thermal cycling. What are the most important factors to address to maximize our success? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:50:48 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Soldering crimp connectors X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well, If you solder in addition to crimping: 1. You add cost and tick off the operators 2. If you are soldering to stranded wire, you will change the flexibility of the connection because, for a short distance, you change flexible stranded wire to solid wire. 3. Unless you are soldering using pure wire solder, i.e. no flux, you are going to get flux wicking up under the wire. If it is a high solids rosin (good ol RMA), then you might or might not have corrosion. You WILL have a visible residue that you cannot clean. So if you normally the flux used in hand soldering, you ain't a gonna get it out. Only dilute it and force it farther in. If you are soldering with pure solder wire, then you probably have a very bad solder connection anyway. 4. If you are using a low solids flux, you must still be prepared to answer questions about green residues. The flux activators over time may result in a greenish residue that is not exactly corrosion. Karen Tellefsen of Alpha Metals did an excellent paper on green residues on circuit boards. Not all are detrimental. 5. On the other hand, you do get a better electrical connection. 6. On yet another hand (a little known side effect of Mountain Dew), one of our experienced engineers has been working with time domain reflectometry, using it to locate faults in rigid and semi-rigid co-ax, and he showed me some interesting graphs the other day. Blobs of solder in a connector changed the TDR characteristics. With blob in place there was one spectrum and with solder blob removed, you have a different spectrum. So, if you are working with RF signals, the use of solder in addition to crimp may alter the signal transmission characteristics. Was this what you were looking for? Doug Pauls Rockwell Collins --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:57:13 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Test Method/Qual Report X-To: Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, Jeff, IPC-9701 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jeff Ferry > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 3:05 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Test Method/Qual Report > > > Technetters, > > Looking for a report titled "Performance Test Methods and Qualification > Requirements for Surface Mount Solder Attachments". Sounds like an IPC > document but can't track it down. Anyone know where I can look? > > Thanks, > > Jeff Ferry > CEO > Circuit Technology Center, Inc. > www.circuittechctr.com > [log in to unmask] > 978-374-5000 > > Sign up for our Free E-mail Newsletter at: > www.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:07:25 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Test Method/Qual Report X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jeff, I think you are looking for IPC-9701. Doug --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:14:31 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Soldering crimp connectors X-To: Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Carl, It has been my experience that soldered crimp connectors will fail with alarming regularity. This comes from working as sustaining engineer in a tech center that delt with all field failures of medical electronics test equipment. We proved, with actual data, that *not* soldering crimp connectors *reduced returns*. If the customer insists on a solder connection use a connector designed for that application i.e. exceptionally good strain relief above the soldered connection, a "blow hole" to eliminate trapped flux, etc. Just my 2 cents worth, Dan P.S.: How much is 2 cents worth after inflation? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:09:15 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: High Rel BGA Guidelines X-To: [log in to unmask] luck --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:38:22 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brian McCrory <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brian McCrory <[log in to unmask]> Organization: Delsen Testing Laboratories, Inc. Subject: Re: Test Method/Qual Report X-To: Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Ferry wrote: > Technetters, > > Looking for a report titled "Performance Test Methods and Qualification > Requirements for Surface Mount Solder Attachments". Sounds like an IPC > document but can't track it down. Anyone know where I can look? > > Thanks, > > Jeff Ferry > CEO > Circuit Technology Center, Inc. > www.circuittechctr.com > [log in to unmask] > 978-374-5000 > > Sign up for our Free E-mail Newsletter at: > www.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm Jeff, There is an IPC-9701, "Qualification and Performance Test Methods for Surface Mount Solder Attachments" that is listed as published/pending ANSI approval on the "Status of IPC Standardization Programs" on the IPC website. -- Brian McCrory Delsen Testing Laboratories, Inc. 1024 Grand Central Ave. Glendale, CA 91201 Phone: (818) 247-4106 FAX: (818) 247-4537 email: [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:52:48 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Guidelines for TH components MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CAF2.8F93D090" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CAF2.8F93D090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello to All, We are interested in guidelines for though hole components, specifically the height of the terminals (Distance that the terminals extends away the board). We are also interested in guidelines for lead to hole ratio. Regards, Alejandro Becerra Thomson multimedia Inc. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CAF2.8F93D090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>Guidelines for TH components</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Hello to All,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">We are interested in guidelines for though hole components,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">specifically the height of the terminals (Distance that the terminals extends away the board).</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">We are also interested in guidelines for lead to hole ratio.</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Regards,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Alejandro Becerra</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Thomson multimedia Inc.</FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CAF2.8F93D090-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:09:23 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Earl, Take/shear/rip/pop/jimmy/remove some of the solder balls that are still attached and compare. Note the amount of stress/force it required to remove them! David A. Douthit Manager LoCan LLC Earl Moon wrote: > Jim, > > BGA's used to be my best friend, except for Arleen Weinberger and other > ladies of extreme beauty and brains. Now they are a bain, if tha's a proper > term. It's like the whole BGA world has gone to hell. Even board suppliers > are starting to suck who once had my total faith and confidence based on > constant evaluation, re-evaluation, and qualification. > > At least now I have a compadre in this mess. Thanks for sharing the gief but > I'm honestly stumped but for an undying dedication to gettin this damn thing > resolved. The TI thing was bad enough but now another major supplier adds to > the MESS. > > Did you give us your paper and/or its location? I'm reading all I can, OVER > AND OVER AGAIN, notwithstanding posting my brains and guts out on this site. > Hell, even Sir Werner and his cohorts can't do much. It has to be up to the > suppliers to come forth. Thought I was working concurrently with TI. Now I'm > not sure again, and haven't even begun talking with the other major supplier > with whom my last pics are associated. > > Your statement about "Every time there was a component failure, it was > attributed to an open BGA solder joint" sure used to ring true but was > resolved, for a time. It seems now to be coming back. > > Sorry about your, hopefully healed black eye, but should not have been the > case. However, some should suffer such a fate based on your thoughts about > how the missing ball attachment area looked compared to mine. This solder > "remnant" crap is exactly my problem and others soon to experience it. All > other surface conditions point to some process management inadequacies and > someone knows what they are and what are the failure modes/mechanisms. Just > looks like unsolderable surfaces to me and whatever happened to the IMC > layer whether too thick, too thin, or just plane way to oxidized. > > My progress is limited to a very small company resource capability. The > company has spent way too much time and money doing minimal analysis. Who > the hell could afford to do more anyway. Like Sir Werner says, this crap is > just being thrown over the fence for all us ROOKIES to suck through a garden > hose. I don't do that. > > I believe you're right about the nickel gold thing. What else could it be. > TI even admitted one of its suppliers was replaced to do a better job. That > hasn't been proven yet either. Maybe Friday it will when we get our first > assemblies. We'll ge to the bottom, and I do mean bottom, of this soon but > maybe not soon enough for some. > > Thanks JM for some outstanding insights. Finally feels a bit, though sadly, > comforting having someone else having gone through this. > > Earl > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:04:25 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Test Method/Qual Report X-To: [log in to unmask] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_0D50B321.F594F444" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_0D50B321.F594F444 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pleased to assist, Jeff. It's a brand new document IPC-9701; here's some = info about it. There's also been some discussion about it you'll probably = find in the TechNet archives. Jack IPC-9701 Performance Test Methods and Qualification Requirements for Surface Mount = Solder Attachments=20 Provides specific test methods to evaluate the performance and reliability = of surface mount solder attachments of electronic assemblies. Establishes = levels of performance and reliability of the solder attachments of surface = mount devices to rigid, flexible and rigid-flex circuit structures. When = used with IPC-SM-785, it provides an understanding of the physics of SMT = solder joint failure and an approximate means of relating performance = tests results to the reliability of solder attachments in their use = environments. 24 pages. Released January 2002. HARD COPY: $40, ELECTRONIC $30 but IPC members get 50% discount on these = prices. >>> [log in to unmask] 03/13/02 02:04PM >>> Technetters, Looking for a report titled "Performance Test Methods and Qualification Requirements for Surface Mount Solder Attachments". Sounds like an IPC document but can't track it down. Anyone know where I can look? Thanks, Jeff Ferry CEO Circuit Technology Center, Inc. www.circuittechctr.com [log in to unmask] 978-374-5000 Sign up for our Free E-mail Newsletter at: www.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to Listserv@ip= c.org: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > = E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 = ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ --=_0D50B321.F594F444 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: HTML <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"= > <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: = 2px"> <DIV><FONT size=3D1>Pleased to assist, Jeff. It's a brand new = document=20 IPC-9701; here's some info about it. There's also been some = discussion=20 about it you'll probably find in the TechNet archives. Jack</FONT></D= IV> <DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>IPC-9701</DIV> <DIV><BR>Performance Test Methods and Qualification Requirements for = Surface=20 Mount Solder Attachments </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Provides specific test methods to evaluate the performance and = reliability=20 of surface mount solder attachments of electronic assemblies. Establishes = levels=20 of performance and reliability of the solder attachments of surface = mount=20 devices to rigid, flexible and rigid-flex circuit structures. When used = with=20 IPC-SM-785, it provides an understanding of the physics of SMT solder = joint=20 failure and an approximate means of relating performance tests results to = the=20 reliability of solder attachments in their use environments. 24 pages. = Released=20 January 2002.</DIV> <DIV><BR>HARD COPY: $40, ELECTRONIC $30 but IPC members get 50% discount = on=20 these prices.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><BR>>>> [log in to unmask] 03/13/02 02:04PM=20 >>><BR>Technetters,<BR><BR>Looking for a report titled "Performanc= e=20 Test Methods and Qualification<BR>Requirements for Surface Mount Solder=20 Attachments". Sounds like an IPC<BR>document but can't track it down. = Anyone=20 know where I can look?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Jeff Ferry<BR>CEO<BR>Circuit= =20 Technology Center,=20 Inc.<BR>www.circuittechctr.com<BR>[log in to unmask]<BR>978-374-5000= <BR><BR>Sign=20 up for our Free E-mail Newsletter=20 at:<BR>www.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm<BR><BR>---------------= ------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Techn= et=20 Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<BR>To=20 unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in<BR>the=20 BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet<BR>To temporarily halt = delivery of=20 Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL<BR>To receive = ONE=20 mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET = Technet=20 Digest<BR>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources = &=20 Databases > E-mail Archives<BR>Please visit IPC web site <A=20 href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.ht= m</A>=20 for additional<BR>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] = or=20 847-509-9700=20 ext.5315<BR>---------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML> --=_0D50B321.F594F444-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:25:37 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Soldering crimp connectors X-To: Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carl, "It depends"!!!!!! 1. High current crimped connections would become more reliable (particularly in harsh conditions). Failures can be very catastrophic. 2. Fold over/upset crimps can become more reliable with solder (particularly in harsh conditions). 3. Soldering 3 or 4 sided compression crimps would cause more problems than they would solve. These are general rules of thumb so be careful and evaluate the situation carefully This is from 35+ plus years of dealing with field failures. David A. Douthit Manager LoCan LLC Carl VanWormer wrote: > We have a customer who insists that we solder our crimp connectors (after > crimping). He has had corrosion problems and is convinced that this is the > best solution. Is this a good thing? Are there any downsides we should > point out to help educate him? > > Carl Van Wormer > Cipher Systems > 1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010 > Beaverton, OR 97006 > Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:29:04 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: High Rel BGA Guidelines X-To: "Crain, Bob" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, What's the difference between polyimide and polyamide? David A. Douthit Manager LoCan LLC "Crain, Bob" wrote: > We may soon be adding BGAs to our approved parts list for some programs. We > use polyamide boards and require electrical test under vibration and thermal > cycling. What are the most important factors to address to maximize our > success? > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:01:41 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Glue Dot Size (missing parts) X-To: "Krug, Dick" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CAF3.CD287950" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CAF3.CD287950 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We are having issues with 0603 components attached with glue (Glue printed with Pump printing) that are being fallen in the wave soldering equipment. The average dot size that we are having in these components is 0.025" and the average torque value is 1 N-cm. What could be possible causes for this issue? Regards, Alejandro Becerra Thomson multimedia Inc -----Original Message----- From: Krug, Dick [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 9:54 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Glue Dot Size We dispense glue using a positive displacement pump. Dot diameter for 0603's is nominally 20 mils. Dot diameter for 0805's is nominally 28 mils. Dick Krug Sypris Electronics -----Original Message----- From: Vinit Verma [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:19 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Glue Dot Size Hi All, Has anyone ever worked with the Pump Printing Stencil for printing glue on pre-inserted PCBs?? This stencil is developed by DEK but I'm not too sure of how it works? Any experiences? Also would be too kind if somebody could tell me the glue size requirement for 0603 and 0805 components? Thanks in advance Regards Vinit Verma ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CAF3.CD287950 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [TN] Glue Dot Size (missing parts)</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>We are having issues with 0603 components attached = with glue (Glue printed with Pump printing)</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>that are being fallen in the wave soldering = equipment.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>The average dot size that we are having in these = components is 0.025" and the average torque value is 1 = N-cm.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>What could be possible causes for this issue?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regards,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Alejandro Becerra</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thomson multimedia Inc</FONT> </P> <BR> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Krug, Dick [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]</F= ONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 9:54 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: [TN] Glue Dot Size</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>We dispense glue using a positive displacement = pump.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dot diameter for 0603's is nominally 20 mils.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dot diameter for 0805's is nominally 28 mils.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dick Krug</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sypris Electronics</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Vinit Verma [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask] XTRONICS.COM</A>]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:19 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: [TN] Glue Dot Size</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi All,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Has anyone ever worked with the Pump Printing Stencil = for printing glue on</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>pre-inserted PCBs?? This stencil is developed by DEK = but I'm not too sure of</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>how it works? Any experiences?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Also would be too kind if somebody could tell me the = glue size requirement</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>for 0603 and 0805 components?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks in advance</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regards</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Vinit Verma</FONT> </P> <P><FONT = SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------= -------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC = using LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] = with following text in</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF = Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail = to [log in to unmask]: SET</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Technet NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: = send e-mail to</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > = On-Line Resources & Databases ></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>E-mail Archives</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Please visit IPC web site <A = HREF=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A> for = additional</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at = [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT = SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------= -------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----</FONT> </P> <P><FONT = SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC = using LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] = with following text in</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF = Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail = to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: = send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > = On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Please visit IPC web site <A = HREF=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A> for = additional</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at = [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT = SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------</FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CAF3.CD287950-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:05:15 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Glue Dot Size (missing parts) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_152.a67aad0.29c15f5b_boundary" --part1_152.a67aad0.29c15f5b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Alejandro! Are you SURE the components are being lost in the wave? Are you SURE they were there just prior to putting the assembly in the conveyer into the wave? From past experience, that was an assumption that was made because the components were there after curing in the oven at surface mount, and then missing after they came out of wave solder. Truth of the matter was that they were knocked off during the handling during PTH stuffing, pre-wave masking, prior to actually waving the assembly...there usually isn't any sort of inspection step to ensure all the bottomside SMT components are there in between bottomside SMT inspection until after wave solder. So it is sometimes missed that the components were knocked off from all the handling that gets done prior to wave. Problem is, when most production people hear the word "epoxy" (as in epoxied SMT components on the bottomside of a board), they equate that to the two-ton stuff that you would use to repair a chair leg with...not understanding that the epoxy that is used for SMT components has very little strength, and don't handle the assemblies with the care that they should... My two-cents (with a coupon)..hehehe -Steve Gregory- > We are having issues with 0603 components attached with glue (Glue printed > with Pump printing) > that are being fallen in the wave soldering equipment. > The average dot size that we are having in these components is 0.025" and > the average torque value is 1 N-cm. > What could be possible causes for this issue? > > Regards, > > Alejandro Becerra > Thomson multimedia Inc > > --part1_152.a67aad0.29c15f5b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Alejandro!<BR> <BR> Are you SURE the components are being lost in the wave? Are you SURE they were there just prior to putting the assembly in the conveyer into the wave?<BR> <BR> From past experience, that was an assumption that was made because the components were there after curing in the oven at surface mount, and then missing after they came out of wave solder. Truth of the matter was that they were knocked off during the handling during PTH stuffing, pre-wave masking, prior to actually waving the assembly...there usually isn't any sort of inspection step to ensure all the bottomside SMT components are there in between bottomside SMT inspection until after wave solder. So it is sometimes missed that the components were knocked off from all the handling that gets done prior to wave.<BR> <BR> Problem is, when most production people hear the word "epoxy" (as in epoxied SMT components on the bottomside of a board), they equate that to the two-ton stuff that you would use to repair a chair leg with...not understanding that the epoxy that is used for SMT components has very little strength, and don't handle the assemblies with the care that they should...<BR> <BR> My two-cents (with a coupon)..hehehe<BR> <BR> -Steve Gregory-<BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">We are having issues with 0603 components attached with glue (Glue printed with Pump printing)</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">that are being fallen in the wave soldering equipment.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">The average dot size that we are having in these components is 0.025" and the average torque value is 1 N-cm.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">What could be possible causes for this issue?</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Regards,</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Alejandro Becerra</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Thomson multimedia Inc</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_152.a67aad0.29c15f5b_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:08:33 +0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, sangliu <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: sangliu <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Ask the question about Storage conditions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IPC-2222 IPC-2221 have very good tech data, dedicate time for though reading. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:14:09 +0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: "Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob)" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From what I've read, the problem doesn't look like black pad since the balls were originally stuck to the device. Black pad would cause no wetting or improper soldering. The pics show tiny areas distributed evenly across the contact surface where complete alloying (i.e. solder jointing) has taken place, but the largest proportion of the area is intermetallic compound where the fracture has occurred. Strangely, most proper alloying, usually seems to take place around the perimeter of the join, but I don't see that here. Don't understand the phenomenon, so can't offer scientific explanation, but I offer is as a snippet of info for your consideration. Earl's problem looks very similar to one that our old friend Ingemar had at Eriksson a while back. He produced a large paper on the investigation they carried out - not 100% tidy, but very interesting reading indeed. One of his conclusions was that the Nickel plating bath was maybe too high in phosphor, causing weak or brittle Nickel layer. Another was Nickel passivation, [possibly caused by the substrate drying out between plating processes, or, as has been suggested, by too-thin a gold layer]. Given the commercial concerns of component manufacturers to offer product at the cheapest prices, it could be that they are extending the life of their plating baths too far in an attempt to keeps costs down. Earl, maybe you ought to see how frequently TI and others change their baths, or conversely, what they hold the phosphor content to. A recommendation I was handed was that P. content shouldn't exceed about 8%, though I've heard of 10% being acceptable. You have my heart-felt sympathy with your bains (and yes it is a proper term, as in 'bain of your life'). Peter "Furrow, Robert Gordon To: [log in to unmask] (Bob)" cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST <furrow@LUCEN Aero/ST Group) T.COM> Subject: Re: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a Sent by: question... TechNet <[log in to unmask] ORG> 03/13/02 10:01 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob)" Earl, As others have stated, the 10X picture looks like there was never intended to be a ball there. Maybe it is the lower mag and a trick of the lighting that makes it look that way. Anyway, on the other pics it looks a lot like a clean fracture right at the intermetallic layer. Is the underlying metal nickel? Was the BGA fabricator using ENIG as a solderability coating prior to the attachment of the balls? Could this be another case of "black pad"? I know we have had instances where this has been the case. Very low level identified, but who knows how many times the actual cause is overlooked. As with the ENIG issue on PWB surfaces, some suppliers may be able to completely eliminate the problem, others may have it at a low level, and the unfortunate few may be plagued with this problem. Just some questions you might want to check in to. Thanks, Robert Furrow Printed Wiring Board Engineer Supply Chain Networks Lucent Technologies 978-960-3224 [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:31 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a question... Jim, BGA's used to be my best friend, except for Arleen Weinberger and other ladies of extreme beauty and brains. Now they are a bain, if tha's a proper term. It's like the whole BGA world has gone to hell. Even board suppliers are starting to suck who once had my total faith and confidence based on constant evaluation, re-evaluation, and qualification. At least now I have a compadre in this mess. Thanks for sharing the gief but I'm honestly stumped but for an undying dedication to gettin this damn thing resolved. The TI thing was bad enough but now another major supplier adds to the MESS. Did you give us your paper and/or its location? I'm reading all I can, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, notwithstanding posting my brains and guts out on this site. Hell, even Sir Werner and his cohorts can't do much. It has to be up to the suppliers to come forth. Thought I was working concurrently with TI. Now I'm not sure again, and haven't even begun talking with the other major supplier with whom my last pics are associated. Your statement about "Every time there was a component failure, it was attributed to an open BGA solder joint" sure used to ring true but was resolved, for a time. It seems now to be coming back. Sorry about your, hopefully healed black eye, but should not have been the case. However, some should suffer such a fate based on your thoughts about how the missing ball attachment area looked compared to mine. This solder "remnant" crap is exactly my problem and others soon to experience it. All other surface conditions point to some process management inadequacies and someone knows what they are and what are the failure modes/mechanisms. Just looks like unsolderable surfaces to me and whatever happened to the IMC layer whether too thick, too thin, or just plane way to oxidized. My progress is limited to a very small company resource capability. The company has spent way too much time and money doing minimal analysis. Who the hell could afford to do more anyway. Like Sir Werner says, this crap is just being thrown over the fence for all us ROOKIES to suck through a garden hose. I don't do that. I believe you're right about the nickel gold thing. What else could it be. TI even admitted one of its suppliers was replaced to do a better job. That hasn't been proven yet either. Maybe Friday it will when we get our first assemblies. We'll ge to the bottom, and I do mean bottom, of this soon but maybe not soon enough for some. Thanks JM for some outstanding insights. Finally feels a bit, though sadly, comforting having someone else having gone through this. Earl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you.] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:42:39 +0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Solder Joint Mechanical Stress X-To: Carl Ray <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Was this strength test written into the requirements when the job was taken on? 20 in pounds is quite a torque to apply to an electronic component. Does your customer have any first-hand experience of circus board manufacture? - it's sounds like "no", or he'ld understand for himself why it's a bad idea to perform a test like this. Is it intended to be 100% inspection? The process to stick the heatsinks to the BGA's should have been confirmed as part of a product qualification test, as should the means and method of testing the adhesion. Properly specified, this process can then be passed onto CM's or whoever assembles the boards to repeat. For process monitoring purposes, to ensure adequate adhesion is being maintained, batch sampling can be done, but I wouldn't do it on expensive "live" product - I would load the occasional board with appropriate dummy components, mount the heatsink and test those. If there's a problem, stop and review the processes. Otherwise, what is the test going to prove? Either the heatsink comes off, or the BGA does (especially if it's one of Earl's illigitimate TI things), or they both stay on the board but the solder joints (ball to board or balls to device or both) have been unnecessarily stressed, which is bound to reduce working life by anyone's reasoning - by how much, should have been one of the HALT test results, using a non-torqued set of pieces for comparison. How to change the customer's mind? Ask what qual tests were done and what results were obtained along the lines I suggested above, and judge for yourself if they were adequate. If not explain why you think so, and if he's still adamant about carrying out the test on live product, get him to sign a disclaimer removing your liability for failures now or later for any boards on which this test has been carried out. Can't suggest anything else, but good luck. Peter Carl Ray <carlr.ray@SANMIN To: [log in to unmask] A-SCI.COM> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST Sent by: TechNet Aero/ST Group) <[log in to unmask]> Subject: [TN] Solder Joint Mechanical Stress 03/14/02 12:17 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to Carl Ray I have a customer who is requiring that I verify the bond strength of a heat sink that is glued to the top of PBGA. The customer has supplied me with a torque tool to verify the strength of the bond between the heat sink and the BGA. I have concerns that testing the strength of the glue bond may affect the solder joint reliability of the BGA. The tool supplied by the customer is set at 20 in pound torque. Any ideas how I can "change" my customer mind? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you.] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:54:10 +0200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Waleed Abdel-Hameed <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Waleed Abdel-Hameed <[log in to unmask]> Subject: clearance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB25.0B2F1CF0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB25.0B2F1CF0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear: Any one know where can i get the mini & max clearance between component bodies on the PCB specially for SMD. thanks waleed ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB25.0B2F1CF0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>clearance</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Dear:</FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial"> Any one know = where can i get the mini & max clearance between component = bodies on the PCB specially for SMD.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">thanks</FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">waleed</FONT> </P> <BR> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB25.0B2F1CF0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:08:13 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: [log in to unmask] I hear you Dave. Over the years doing BGA stuff, I developed a very calibrated index finger and thumb. The whole thing about these devices and their balls, has always facinated me. Earl on, I began using my talented digits attempting to dislodge the little bastards. I know what it takes, and for all the other balls on these crap devices, they pass my test. They adhere very well. It's after they're soldered when most of the problems, besides as received, occur. Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:10:22 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: High Rel BGA Guidelines X-To: [log in to unmask] What's the difference between hi rel and no rel when balls fall off devices or devices fall off balls attached to boards? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:16:36 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Guenter Grossmann <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Guenter Grossmann <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Antw: [TN] Solder Joint Mechanical Stress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carlr 1) Make the test and show with micro sections that your solder joints = suffer 2) Try to convince him / her that it is more sensible to perform a type = test where you show that your process is appropriate. Maybe you could = suggest repetitive tests on random samples out of the production. Best regards Guenter . EMPA Swiss Federal Institute for Materials Testing and Research Centre for Reliability Dipl. Eng. Guenter Grossmann 8600 Duebendorf Switzerland Phone: xx41 1 823 4279 Fax : xx41 1823 4054 mail: [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:14:37 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Ask the question about Storage conditions X-To: [log in to unmask] To answer your question: SGVsbG8gdG8gYWxsOg0KICAgIEkgaGF2ZSBtZWV0IHdpdGggYSBzZXJpb3VzbHkgcHJvYmxlbTog T3VyIGZhY3Rvcnkgc Plus, if stored under the right conditions within the wrong conditions, no problem. This meahs you can always buy expensive chambers to store parts within large, cheap conatiners and the problem is solved. I'll patent that idea. Seriously, you have a problem and I do empathsize, MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:18:35 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: [log in to unmask] I only had one other bain of my life, before this, but I can't remember her name. That was forgettable, and forgiveable. This is neither. No disrespect, but get inside TI's, or anyone else's plating chemistry and management, is a joke. Beyond that, we're on the same page, as usual. Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:25:51 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: clearance X-To: [log in to unmask] waleed, It all started, basically, with MIL, now IPC 279, or is it 2221 (I get so confused) and improving, STD-275 design guidelines. Aside from all that, most major corporations (HP, Nortel, etc.) took the guidelines, as they should, and converted them into design standards or rules no longer guidelines. Nortel, as but one example, requires a minimum chip device spacing to be .015". HP and Nortel both have devised requirements for other device spacing according to their in house reliability testing and in concert with IPC leaders. Earl Moon --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:03:07 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Zweigart, Siegmund" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Zweigart, Siegmund" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Solderability of BGA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello I am looking for some documents about solderability tests for BGA s with eutectik balls. Can anybody help me in this subject? We think that the BGA- Balls were touched by fingers and the solderiability is significant reduced. How can we analyse the component for fingerprints? We are thinking of looking for NaCl. Has anybody another idea? Siggi --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:00:37 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Ask the question about Storage conditions X-To: sangliu <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB3F.17583740" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB3F.17583740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Well, I know your problem from live experience in your area. Been there, saw the results and was not amused. I share your concern. Tell us what you are producing so we don??t buy such goods ;-) If you have no other choice than that you may consider establishing a FIFO system for all of your parts. Make sure all parts do not stay longer than absolutely necessary in this environment. Make sure, once you have determined the max. storage time for an individual part, that parts staying there longer don??t get to your assembly. Think of "just in time delivery", maybe you??re a big one and can do it. Get accustomed to the idea that not all parts can be used for production. If all that doesn??t help get as much touchup people you can get, .... but if that will make things any better.... ? BEST: You may seal the parts in dry bags as you do with all your MSD. Do solderability tests before use, don??t process parts that show evidence of bad wetting. I would call that "Control of the conditions for the indivdual part" and that would be my first choice than. I guess your next problem will be the conditions in your assembly. Good luck and please do better than others over there Wolfgang -----Original Message----- From: sangliu [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 3:09 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Ask the question about Storage conditions Hello to all: I have meet with a seriously problem: Our factory set up a new storage center. But somebody do not want afford the air-conditioning for the component and PCB materials storaging. I and someother engineers do not think so, and afraid the solderability ,reliability and the other problems. Because the temperature maybe 40 degree C odd ,and the humidity will be 90%RH. Would you please give me some materials about such topics: 1:The storage conditons of your company and the company you know, such as temperature,humidity, and so on. Also you can send me the standard document in electronic field. 2: The storage limit time of different materials, packages types, and the oxidate rate of the common metal: SnPb, Au, Ag, Pd,etc. 3: The main harmful when we can not afford good storaging condition, especailly the details data /photo and report on this problem. 4: I know sometimes the packing materials such as plastic film, polyester, polyethelene can not hold back the moisture, because they have micropore. Do you have some papers on these packing materials for this model? Regards! Sunny Liu ************************************************************ Dr. Liu Sang Process Technology Section of Development & Piloting Department Huawei Technologies Compant, LTD. Bantian, Longgang, Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China Tel: (86)-755-8780073, Fax: (86)-755-8780132 E-mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> http://www.huawei.com <http://www.huawei.com> ************************************************************ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB3F.17583740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=gb2312"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><SPAN class=587392909-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Well, I know your problem from live experience in your area. Been there, saw the results and was not amused.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=587392909-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I share your concern.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=587392909-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Tell us what you are producing so we don´t buy such goods ;-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=587392909-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=587392909-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If you have no other choice than that you may consider establishing a FIFO system for all of your parts. Make sure all parts do not stay longer than absolutely necessary in this environment. Make sure, once you have determined the max. storage time for an individual part, that parts staying there longer don´t get to your assembly. Think of "just in time delivery", maybe you´re a big one and can do it. Get accustomed to the idea that not all parts can be used for production. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=587392909-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If all that doesn´t help get as much touchup people you can get, .... but if that will make things any better.... ?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=587392909-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=587392909-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>BEST: You may seal the parts in dry bags as you do with all your MSD. Do solderability tests before use, don´t process parts that show evidence of bad wetting. I would call that "Control of the conditions for the indivdual part" and that would be my first choice than.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=587392909-14032002>I guess your next problem will be the conditions in your assembly.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=587392909-14032002></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=587392909-14032002>Good luck and please do better than others over there</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=587392909-14032002></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=587392909-14032002>Wolfgang</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=587392909-14032002></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=587392909-14032002></SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> sangliu [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 14, 2002 3:09 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Ask the question about Storage conditions<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV><FONT size=2>Hello to all:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3> I have meet with a seriously problem: Our factory set up a new storage center. But somebody do not want afford the air-conditioning for the component and PCB materials storaging. I and someother engineers do not think so, and afraid the solderability ,reliability and the other problems.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Because the temperature maybe 40 degree C odd ,and the humidity will be 90%RH.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Would you please give me some materials about such topics:</DIV> <DIV>1:The storage conditons of your company and the company you know, such as temperature,humidity, and so on. Also you can send me the standard document in electronic field.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2: The storage limit time of different materials, packages types, and the oxidate rate of the common metal: SnPb, Au, Ag, Pd,etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3: The main harmful when we can not afford good storaging condition, especailly the details data /photo and report on this problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4: I know sometimes the packing materials such as plastic film, polyester, polyethelene can not hold back the moisture, because they have micropore.</DIV> <DIV>Do you have some papers on these packing materials for this model?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Regards!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sunny Liu</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>************************************************************<BR> Dr. Liu Sang <BR> Process Technology Section of Development & Piloting Department<BR> Huawei Technologies Compant, LTD.<BR> Bantian, Longgang, <BR> Shenzhen 518129 P.R.China<BR> Tel: (86)-755-8780073, Fax: (86)-755-8780132<BR> E-mail: <A href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A><BR> <A href="http://www.huawei.com">http://www.huawei.com</A><BR> ************************************************************<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB3F.17583740-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:42:35 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > -----Original Message----- > From: David Douthit [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 2:09 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a question... >=20 >=20 > Earl, >=20 > Take/shear/rip/pop/jimmy/remove some of the solder balls that=20 > are still attached and compare. > Note the amount of stress/force it required to remove them! >=20 > David A. Douthit > Manager > LoCan LLC >=20 >=20 >=20 Earl,=20 would be interesting what that shows. As with ENIG I have seen one strange thing with this over years. One of = a couple of thousand pads on a PCB just was not covered with ENIG and absolutely unsolderable, seemed to be bare copper but somewhat coated = and "out of colour". This was mostly detected at incoming inspection, = rejected and send back to the Boardhouse with no further examination for the = real cause. The effort would have been to much for just one board out of = thousand and we always got an immediate refund with no arguing or any = explanation what had caused that. Actually seeing something in this pictures is nearly impossible for me, = just more background would be necessary. But it seems, no matter what the extend of this problem really is, that = it=B4s obvious a part related problem the manufacturer should refund or = explain.=20 I share your concern regarding quality at present and the outlook for = the future, hope we all learn a bit ... or me go cave too. Wolfgang =20 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:47:42 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: [log in to unmask] Wolfgang, Thanks as usual for the insightful input. Cave's getting crowded but you always welcome. Should be no need but for cheap. Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:23:01 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Earl, one test I've been performing is a somewhat suggestive ball shear test, where I grab a ball with a pair of stiff tweezers and slowly rock it back and forth until it shears off. Looking at the fracture surface, you want to see complete solder coverage on the component. One other thing... when looking at my balls under a microscope (no jokes, please) I can see probe marks from the electrical tester. These marks are not located on the top of the ball but on the side, meaning that the test probes contact the side of the ball. (This was verified by the supplier.) Could this be overstressing marginal solder joints? Who knows? Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: Earl Moon [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 3:08 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a question... I hear you Dave. Over the years doing BGA stuff, I developed a very calibrated index finger and thumb. The whole thing about these devices and their balls, has always facinated me. Earl on, I began using my talented digits attempting to dislodge the little bastards. I know what it takes, and for all the other balls on these crap devices, they pass my test. They adhere very well. It's after they're soldered when most of the problems, besides as received, occur. Earl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:31:25 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Kasprzak, Bill (sys) USX" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Kasprzak, Bill (sys) USX" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Soldering crimp connectors X-To: Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Carl, Without knowing where the corrosion problem is, I suspect it's that it occurs just above the area where the crimps are located, this sounds like the customer either needs to add a strain relief or a protective boot to the connector where the crimps are. Really sounds to me like the customer has not identified the root cause of the problem. A crimped connection when properly applied does not require nor is it meant to be soldered, even for some of the high current applications mentioned in some previous posts. If a soldered connection is what is needed then buy a connector with solder cups. I would ask the customer then, "so what is the workmanship criteria for this connection?". There isn't any. You really need to explore why the customer thinks this is necessary, this is not an acceptable practice Bill Kasprzak Moog Inc. Manufacturing Engineering, Electronics . > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl VanWormer [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:35 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Soldering crimp connectors > > We have a customer who insists that we solder our crimp connectors (after > crimping). He has had corrosion problems and is convinced that this is > the > best solution. Is this a good thing? Are there any downsides we should > point out to help educate him? > > > Carl Van Wormer > Cipher Systems > 1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010 > Beaverton, OR 97006 > Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:48:59 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Board Bow and Twist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I think this is a no-brainer, but here goes... We were delivered boards in panel form from one of our suppliers. At Incoming Inspection, the panel was rejected for excessive bow (>75% for SMT) and returned the supplier. The supplier called me and said that even though the panel exceeded the bow requirement, the individual boards were acceptable. When I quoted the bow and twist requirement from IPC-6012, "Panels which contain multiple printed boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated shall be assessed in panel form." , he said yes, you measure the individual boards in the panel. I need clarification. Thanks, Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:02:47 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: [log in to unmask] Jim, I thought of the test probe on balls indentations. Steve's site has one imange showing the probe stuff. Don't know how much stress is placed on balls in terms of shear or whatever other stress. Never used to care. The stuff just worked. Again, I'm just confounded by the remnants on the device's pad surface as solder but little else. Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:04:32 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: [log in to unmask] boards only --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:12:27 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well, I got two responses with two different interpretations... Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: Franklin D Asbell [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:17 AM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.; Marsico, James Subject: Re: [TN] Board Bow and Twist Regarding bow/twist for arrays, prior to separation, the array is considered a board and subject to the bow/twist requirements of 6012. At least this is how I interpret it, and apply it in my shop. Regards, Franklin D Asbell Network Circuits, Inc. Irving, Texas 75061 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:48 AM Subject: [TN] Board Bow and Twist > I think this is a no-brainer, but here goes... We were delivered boards in > panel form from one of our suppliers. At Incoming Inspection, the panel was > rejected for excessive bow (>75% for SMT) and returned the supplier. The > supplier called me and said that even though the panel exceeded the bow > requirement, the individual boards were acceptable. When I quoted the bow > and twist requirement from IPC-6012, "Panels which contain multiple printed > boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated shall be > assessed in panel form." , he said yes, you measure the individual boards in > the panel. I need clarification. > Thanks, > Jim Marsico > Senior Engineer > Production Engineering > EDO Electronics Systems Group > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > 631-595-5879 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:15:43 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jim If you assemble PANELS then the bow and twist is measured on the PANELS. If you assemble INDIVIDUAL BOARDS then the bow and twist is measured on INDIVIDUAL BOARDS. Susan Mansilla Robisan Lab --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:16:30 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding bow/twist for arrays, prior to separation, the array is considered a board and subject to the bow/twist requirements of 6012. At least this is how I interpret it, and apply it in my shop. Regards, Franklin D Asbell Network Circuits, Inc. Irving, Texas 75061 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:48 AM Subject: [TN] Board Bow and Twist > I think this is a no-brainer, but here goes... We were delivered boards in > panel form from one of our suppliers. At Incoming Inspection, the panel was > rejected for excessive bow (>75% for SMT) and returned the supplier. The > supplier called me and said that even though the panel exceeded the bow > requirement, the individual boards were acceptable. When I quoted the bow > and twist requirement from IPC-6012, "Panels which contain multiple printed > boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated shall be > assessed in panel form." , he said yes, you measure the individual boards in > the panel. I need clarification. > Thanks, > Jim Marsico > Senior Engineer > Production Engineering > EDO Electronics Systems Group > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > 631-595-5879 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:21:15 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist two answers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jim This is not a question where "the most votes" determines the answer. The last sentence in para 3.4.4 states Panels which contain multiple printed boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated SHALL be assessed in panel form. Susan Mansilla --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:23:11 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Unusual plated 'stuff' on copper surface MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01C1CB29.190462A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C1CB29.190462A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This past January we began seeing unusual 'growths' ((for lack of better = descriptive wording)) on the surface of panels after copper II, they are = typically observed on one end of the panels, often only a couple panels = per tankload exhibit this. These 'growths' look like fine strands of metal of fabric fibers, they = are clustered together like someone poor shavings there, and plated over = them. If any of you recall pics of those bacteria found in that Mars = asteroid from the Antarctic, they appear similar to that (not saying we = have bacteria growing in our baths of course). Occasionally we see this = out towards the center of panels, I don't believe we have ever seen all = panels in a tankload exhibit this either. This condition is observed on = one or two loads per day (out of about 20 - 30), some days not at all. We started seeing this in one bath (of three in house) until recently it = appeared in another bath simultaneously. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated as our process engineers, = lab techs, and suppliers are baffled. Thanks, Franklin D Asbell Network Circuits, Inc. Irving, Texas 75061 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C1CB29.190462A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This past January we began seeing = unusual 'growths'=20 ((for lack of better descriptive wording)) on the surface of panels = after copper=20 II, they are typically observed on one end of the panels, often only a = couple=20 panels per tankload exhibit this.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>These 'growths' look like fine strands = of metal of=20 fabric fibers, they are clustered together like someone poor shavings = there, and=20 plated over them. If any of you recall pics of those bacteria found in = that Mars=20 asteroid from the Antarctic, they appear similar to that (not saying we = have=20 bacteria growing in our baths of course). Occasionally we see this out = towards=20 the center of panels, I don't believe we have ever seen all panels in a = tankload=20 exhibit this either. This condition is observed on one or two loads per = day (out=20 of about 20 - 30), some days not at all.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We started seeing this in one bath (of = three in=20 house) until recently it appeared in another bath = simultaneously.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any help on this would be greatly = appreciated as=20 our process engineers, lab techs, and suppliers are = baffled.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Franklin D Asbell</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Network Circuits, Inc.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Irving, Texas 75061</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C1CB29.190462A0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:25:19 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James, An afterthought, the bow and twist requirement is there to provide ease of board population as well as end use fit. If the board is warped prior to assembly, this indeed would affect population thus potentially making the boards unsuitable for end use...just something to think about, or pass along to your supplier. Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:48 AM Subject: [TN] Board Bow and Twist > I think this is a no-brainer, but here goes... We were delivered boards in > panel form from one of our suppliers. At Incoming Inspection, the panel was > rejected for excessive bow (>75% for SMT) and returned the supplier. The > supplier called me and said that even though the panel exceeded the bow > requirement, the individual boards were acceptable. When I quoted the bow > and twist requirement from IPC-6012, "Panels which contain multiple printed > boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated shall be > assessed in panel form." , he said yes, you measure the individual boards in > the panel. I need clarification. > Thanks, > Jim Marsico > Senior Engineer > Production Engineering > EDO Electronics Systems Group > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > 631-595-5879 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:29:11 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I look at it from a different perspective, reliability. If you populate (and reflow) warped boards, what happens to the solder joints when the boards are flattened when installed in the next higher assembly? Now that I think about it, probably nothing, since the solder will eventually relax. Right? But why else would there be a more stringent flatness requirement for SMT boards than TH since most P&P systems hold SMT boards down by the edges? Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: Franklin D Asbell [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:25 AM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.; Marsico, James Subject: Re: [TN] Board Bow and Twist James, An afterthought, the bow and twist requirement is there to provide ease of board population as well as end use fit. If the board is warped prior to assembly, this indeed would affect population thus potentially making the boards unsuitable for end use...just something to think about, or pass along to your supplier. Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:48 AM Subject: [TN] Board Bow and Twist > I think this is a no-brainer, but here goes... We were delivered boards in > panel form from one of our suppliers. At Incoming Inspection, the panel was > rejected for excessive bow (>75% for SMT) and returned the supplier. The > supplier called me and said that even though the panel exceeded the bow > requirement, the individual boards were acceptable. When I quoted the bow > and twist requirement from IPC-6012, "Panels which contain multiple printed > boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated shall be > assessed in panel form." , he said yes, you measure the individual boards in > the panel. I need clarification. > Thanks, > Jim Marsico > Senior Engineer > Production Engineering > EDO Electronics Systems Group > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > 631-595-5879 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:42:03 +0200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Grant Emandien <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Grant Emandien <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Moonman, Please elaborate - surely one has to look at the complete panel, as this affects SMD placement forces (due to varying heights, may even cause components to pop off) and reflow yield (possible components slipping/sliding)? Regards Grant -----Original Message----- From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 3:05 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Board Bow and Twist boards only ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ********************************************************************** Notice: This email transmission contains confidential information which is the property of the sender. 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This is deja vu. I had the exact same discussion here about a year or so ago. The position I took (based on what I thought was good common sense) echoes most of the responses you received. I am building the panel, not individual boards, so the panel has to meet the spec. What good are "in-spec" individual boards if the panel won't go through the process? Bob ======================= Robert Barr Manufacturing Engineering Formation, Inc. Voice: 856-234-5020 x3035 Fax: 856-234-6679 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Marsico, James > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 7:49 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Board Bow and Twist > > > I think this is a no-brainer, but here goes... We were delivered > boards in > panel form from one of our suppliers. At Incoming Inspection, > the panel was > rejected for excessive bow (>75% for SMT) and returned the supplier. The > supplier called me and said that even though the panel exceeded the bow > requirement, the individual boards were acceptable. When I quoted the bow > and twist requirement from IPC-6012, "Panels which contain > multiple printed > boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated shall be > assessed in panel form." , he said yes, you measure the > individual boards in > the panel. I need clarification. > Thanks, > Jim Marsico > Senior Engineer > Production Engineering > EDO Electronics Systems Group > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > 631-595-5879 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:00:43 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Charlie Pitarys <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Charlie Pitarys <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Cleaning Baskets X-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB60.A1E59080" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB60.A1E59080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Alan, investigate the mesh size of the wire carefully. You may protect your components with a small mesh but combine that w/the pitch of the conveyor belt it will be like trying to clean through a screen door. I have seen some baskets made with 1/4 inch square mesh and folks have had cleaning issues even w/in-lines pushing 100psi. In addition if you load other really small parts they will/may bounce around inside the basket land on top of each other and incomplete clean and rinse may result. If chemistry is used to wash expect an increase in dragout too. Regards, Charlie Pitarys Director of Application Technologies 603.622.2900 X-115 www.kyzen.com -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:19 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Cleaning Baskets Hello Technet, I'm looking for alternative-style baskets / methods to prevent damage (rips parts off) double-sided boards. I thinking of having our st.st. baskets coated with plastic. Background: I usually place the boards directly on the in-line cleaner's conveyor (which also has a top/hold-down conveyor). I had a board that we thought may get damaged without placing in a basket (24" x 20" x 1.75" with 1/4" mesh). However, any slight movement - either during loading/unloading or cleaning - rips off the higher profile smt parts. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance for your help, Al Kreplick Sr. Mfg. Eng. Teradyne, Inc. 500 Riverpark Drive North Reading, MA 01864 Tel: 978-370-1726 Fax: 734-661-5352 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB60.A1E59080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [TN] Cleaning Baskets</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Alan, investigate the mesh size of the wire = carefully. You may protect your components with a small mesh but = combine that w/the pitch of the conveyor belt it will be like trying to = clean through a screen door. I have seen some baskets made with 1/4 = inch square mesh and folks have had cleaning issues even w/in-lines = pushing 100psi. In addition if you load other really small parts they = will/may bounce around inside the basket land on top of each other and = incomplete clean and rinse may result. </FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If chemistry is used to wash expect an increase in = dragout too.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regards,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Charlie Pitarys</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Director of Application Technologies</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>603.622.2900 X-115</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>www.kyzen.com </FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2> </FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2> </FONT> </P> <BR> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: [log in to unmask] [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:alan.kreplick@TERADYNE= .COM</A>]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:19 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: [TN] Cleaning Baskets</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hello Technet,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I'm looking for alternative-style baskets / methods = to prevent damage (rips</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>parts off) double-sided boards. I thinking of = having our st.st. baskets</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>coated with plastic.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Background: I usually place the boards directly on = the in-line cleaner's</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>conveyor (which also has a top/hold-down = conveyor). I had a board that we</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>thought may get damaged without placing in a basket = (24" x 20" x 1.75" with</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>1/4" mesh). However, any slight movement = - either during loading/unloading</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>or cleaning - rips off the higher profile smt = parts.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Any suggestions?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Thanks in advance for your help,</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Al Kreplick</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sr. Mfg. Eng.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Teradyne, Inc.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>500 Riverpark Drive</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>North Reading, MA 01864</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Tel: 978-370-1726</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Fax: 734-661-5352</FONT> </P> <P><FONT = SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC = using LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] = with following text in</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF = Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail = to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: = send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > = On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Please visit IPC web site <A = HREF=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A> for = additional</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at = [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT = SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------</FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB60.A1E59080-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:15:34 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim, assuming that you do not plan to separate them before assembly you do = not have a chance to determine which of your individuals will give you the = bow and twist that makes the whole panel warp to much. If the whole panel is off than at least one - if not all - individual = boards are not within tolerance. That=B4s what meself is thinking Wolfgang =20 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:33:23 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: High Rel BGA Guidelines X-To: "Crain, Bob" <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Flatness of board/pad finish/component. Stencil apparure design and consistent paste volume. XRay many to validate process. Pad size/ mask design/ via design. Good rework equipment. and yes Good Luck! "Crain, Bob" <[log in to unmask]> on 03/13/2002 03:44:28 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to "Crain, Bob" <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: (bcc: Warren Crow/US/I-O INC) Subject: [TN] High Rel BGA Guidelines We may soon be adding BGAs to our approved parts list for some programs. We use polyamide boards and require electrical test under vibration and thermal cycling. What are the most important factors to address to maximize our success? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:45:27 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist two answers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi Jim, the actual test method is in IPC-TM-650 (2.4.22). This one is not very specific in defining what actually should be measured (panel or single board). Still, para 3 says "The test specimens shall be in the form of either printed boards or multiple printed panels". Then the drawing and the procedure show a rectangular element that is measured, in my opinion this shall be the panel. If the above mentioned rectangular element is not to be the panel, ask the board fab to singulate each individual board, measure it for warp, just to make sure it checks out OK and then re-assemble them in panels. But, like somebody was saying yesterday, talking about PGAs, this could be ignored. Regards, Ioan > -----Original Message----- > From: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:21 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Board Bow and Twist two answers > > Hi Jim > This is not a question where "the most votes" determines the answer. > The last sentence in para 3.4.4 states Panels which contain multiple > printed > boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated SHALL be > assessed > in panel form. > > Susan Mansilla > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:40:12 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Glue Dot Size (missing parts) X-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB66.25ADE2A0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB66.25ADE2A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Steve, We have made audits before and after the wave soldering, and we have found that really the components are being lost in the wave soldering. We lost some components in prior the wave but they are very few. Alejandro -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:05 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Glue Dot Size (missing parts) Hi Alejandro! Are you SURE the components are being lost in the wave? Are you SURE they were there just prior to putting the assembly in the conveyer into the wave? From past experience, that was an assumption that was made because the components were there after curing in the oven at surface mount, and then missing after they came out of wave solder. Truth of the matter was that they were knocked off during the handling during PTH stuffing, pre-wave masking, prior to actually waving the assembly...there usually isn't any sort of inspection step to ensure all the bottomside SMT components are there in between bottomside SMT inspection until after wave solder. So it is sometimes missed that the components were knocked off from all the handling that gets done prior to wave. Problem is, when most production people hear the word "epoxy" (as in epoxied SMT components on the bottomside of a board), they equate that to the two-ton stuff that you would use to repair a chair leg with...not understanding that the epoxy that is used for SMT components has very little strength, and don't handle the assemblies with the care that they should... My two-cents (with a coupon)..hehehe -Steve Gregory- We are having issues with 0603 components attached with glue (Glue printed with Pump printing) that are being fallen in the wave soldering equipment. The average dot size that we are having in these components is 0.025" and the average torque value is 1 N-cm. What could be possible causes for this issue? Regards, Alejandro Becerra Thomson multimedia Inc ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB66.25ADE2A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=792423914-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Steve,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=792423914-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=792423914-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We have made audits before and after the wave soldering,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=792423914-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>and we have found that really the components are being lost in the wave soldering.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=792423914-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We lost some components in prior the wave but they are very few.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=792423914-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=792423914-14032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Alejandro</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:05 PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Glue Dot Size (missing parts)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>Hi Alejandro!<BR><BR>Are you SURE the components are being lost in the wave? Are you SURE they were there just prior to putting the assembly in the conveyer into the wave?<BR><BR>From past experience, that was an assumption that was made because the components were there after curing in the oven at surface mount, and then missing after they came out of wave solder. Truth of the matter was that they were knocked off during the handling during PTH stuffing, pre-wave masking, prior to actually waving the assembly...there usually isn't any sort of inspection step to ensure all the bottomside SMT components are there in between bottomside SMT inspection until after wave solder. So it is sometimes missed that the components were knocked off from all the handling that gets done prior to wave.<BR><BR>Problem is, when most production people hear the word "epoxy" (as in epoxied SMT components on the bottomside of a board), they equate that to the two-ton stuff that you would use to repair a chair leg with...not understanding that the epoxy that is used for SMT components has very little strength, and don't handle the assemblies with the care that they should...<BR><BR>My two-cents (with a coupon)..hehehe<BR><BR>-Steve Gregory-<BR><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" TYPE="CITE">We are having issues with 0603 components attached with glue (Glue printed with Pump printing)</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"> <BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">that are being fallen in the wave soldering equipment.</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"> <BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">The average dot size that we are having in these components is 0.025" and the average torque value is 1 N-cm.</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"> <BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">What could be possible causes for this issue?</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"> <BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Regards,</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"> <BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Alejandro Becerra</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"> <BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF">Thomson multimedia Inc</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"> <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB66.25ADE2A0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:46:09 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey Jim, Susan's got it right - if you need flat panels measure panels and if you need flat boards you measure boards. IPC-TM-650 2.4.22 works for either. Somewhere in your procurement documentation you must have specified delivery in panel form. Did you happen to reference IPC-A-610 anywhere? IPC-A-610 Rev. C Section 10.6 Acceptable - Class 1,2,3 * Bow and twist does not cause damage during post solder assembly operations or end use. Consider ''Form, Fit and Function'' and product reliability. Defect - Class - 1,2,3 * Bow and twist causes damage during post solder assembly operations or end use. Note: Bow and twist after soldering should not exceed 1.5% for through-hole and 0.75% for surface mount printed board applications I've seen this before - panels fail but the final boards will pass. Our Quality Engineers would request a waiver prior to shipping or we'd scrap them. Hans AC-130 Gunship Motto: "You can run but you'll only die tired." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hans M. Hinners Electronics Engineer Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE) 226 Cochran Street Robins AFB GA 31098-1622 mailto:[log in to unmask] Com: (478) 926 - 5224 Fax: (478) 926 - 4911 DSN Prefix: 468 -----Original Message----- From: Marsico, James [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:12 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Board Bow and Twist Well, I got two responses with two different interpretations... Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: Franklin D Asbell [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:17 AM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.; Marsico, James Subject: Re: [TN] Board Bow and Twist Regarding bow/twist for arrays, prior to separation, the array is considered a board and subject to the bow/twist requirements of 6012. At least this is how I interpret it, and apply it in my shop. Regards, Franklin D Asbell Network Circuits, Inc. Irving, Texas 75061 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:48 AM Subject: [TN] Board Bow and Twist > I think this is a no-brainer, but here goes... We were delivered boards in > panel form from one of our suppliers. At Incoming Inspection, the panel was > rejected for excessive bow (>75% for SMT) and returned the supplier. The > supplier called me and said that even though the panel exceeded the bow > requirement, the individual boards were acceptable. When I quoted the bow > and twist requirement from IPC-6012, "Panels which contain multiple printed > boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated shall be > assessed in panel form." , he said yes, you measure the individual boards in > the panel. I need clarification. > Thanks, > Jim Marsico > Senior Engineer > Production Engineering > EDO Electronics Systems Group > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > 631-595-5879 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:52:39 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist MIME-Version: 1.0 (Generated by NET-TEL Mailguard SMTP version 4.0.0.22) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim, I'd say the IPC-6012 requirement is there to make sure the boards can be = assembled (in the panel). The requirement for the individual boards (the = end-products) is written somewhere in the Ansi-J-STD001. Besides, I don't think it is even possible to measure indivual boards in a = panel with the IPC-prescribed measurement methods. To my opinion the = supplier is definitely wrong. Daan Terstegge SMT Centre Thales Communications Unclassified mail Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net >>> "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> 03/14 1:48 pm >>> I think this is a no-brainer, but here goes... We were delivered boards = in panel form from one of our suppliers. At Incoming Inspection, the panel = was rejected for excessive bow (>75% for SMT) and returned the supplier. The supplier called me and said that even though the panel exceeded the bow requirement, the individual boards were acceptable. When I quoted the bow and twist requirement from IPC-6012, "Panels which contain multiple = printed boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated shall be assessed in panel form." , he said yes, you measure the individual boards = in the panel. I need clarification. Thanks, Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to Listserv@ip= c.org: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > = E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 = ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:53:30 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: [log in to unmask] just shakin' the bush, or stirin' the pot, boss. 600 tells the story as 2.11 - flatness. However, there are so many large boards being designed, one must consider only one board up on a panel. Getting pretty serious here even with two up on an 18 by 24 panel. better watch it folks. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:58:05 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Coating thickness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, Does anyone now of a technique or system to check conformal coating thickness after it's dry on production units? We have a positector to=20 measure paint thickness on our enclosures but they're not design to work on materials like PCB. Jean-Fran=E7ois Bissonnette V=E9rificateur, Contr=F4le de la Qualit=E9 =C9lectronique Produits et Proc=E9d=E9s Vapor Rail Inc. 10655 Henri-Bourassa O. St-Laurent, Qc H4S 1A1 (514) 335-4200 x2021 (514) 335-4231 fax <<Bissonnette, Jean-Francois.vcf>>=20 WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged and= confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or en= tity named herein. If the reader of this transmission is not the intended r= ecipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or = copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:01:32 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" What if the panels are bowed beyond the .75% limit, the boards are not, I can build them and I can use them? I know I'm answering my own question, I should use them, right? Well, what's the purpose of the .75% requirement? I would think that the requirement should be whatever is agreed upon between customer and supplier. If I can live with 2%, why not (within reason). Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: Franklin D Asbell [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:25 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Board Bow and Twist James, An afterthought, the bow and twist requirement is there to provide ease of board population as well as end use fit. If the board is warped prior to assembly, this indeed would affect population thus potentially making the boards unsuitable for end use...just something to think about, or pass along to your supplier. Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:48 AM Subject: [TN] Board Bow and Twist > I think this is a no-brainer, but here goes... We were delivered boards in > panel form from one of our suppliers. At Incoming Inspection, the panel was > rejected for excessive bow (>75% for SMT) and returned the supplier. The > supplier called me and said that even though the panel exceeded the bow > requirement, the individual boards were acceptable. When I quoted the bow > and twist requirement from IPC-6012, "Panels which contain multiple printed > boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated shall be > assessed in panel form." , he said yes, you measure the individual boards in > the panel. I need clarification. > Thanks, > Jim Marsico > Senior Engineer > Production Engineering > EDO Electronics Systems Group > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > 631-595-5879 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:09:04 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Earls pics are up, and a question... X-To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter: I am trying my best to remain calm in regards to our quality issues, but I am begining to lose my cool. I have eagerly read many responses from fellow TechNet members with much respect and gratefullness, however it is only fueling my fire. Your response that the manufacturers are trying to keep there pricing down is right on target but it is killing me that they are doing this on a thousand dollar part. They want to address cost, how about the fact that they are killing a project which is very large dollars. Worse yet, apparently most of us have been there and have had to perform analysis to defend our findings as the customer. Where is customer service/support in this industry? I was always taught that the customer was always right. This is the way I perform my job and I expect this from those around me. Forgive me that I have used your email to vent at, but you hit their nail on the head with COST!!! The manufacturer has agreed to return these parts, but I have still not heard any possible admission of fault or even an apology for the grief it has already given. As for the other manufacturer that we are having issues with, the brick wall shows better support. But then again, monopolistic is what the industry is turning into, just look at distribution!!! Ken -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of [log in to unmask] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:14 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a question... >From what I've read, the problem doesn't look like black pad since the balls were originally stuck to the device. Black pad would cause no wetting or improper soldering. The pics show tiny areas distributed evenly across the contact surface where complete alloying (i.e. solder jointing) has taken place, but the largest proportion of the area is intermetallic compound where the fracture has occurred. Strangely, most proper alloying, usually seems to take place around the perimeter of the join, but I don't see that here. Don't understand the phenomenon, so can't offer scientific explanation, but I offer is as a snippet of info for your consideration. Earl's problem looks very similar to one that our old friend Ingemar had at Eriksson a while back. He produced a large paper on the investigation they carried out - not 100% tidy, but very interesting reading indeed. One of his conclusions was that the Nickel plating bath was maybe too high in phosphor, causing weak or brittle Nickel layer. Another was Nickel passivation, [possibly caused by the substrate drying out between plating processes, or, as has been suggested, by too-thin a gold layer]. Given the commercial concerns of component manufacturers to offer product at the cheapest prices, it could be that they are extending the life of their plating baths too far in an attempt to keeps costs down. Earl, maybe you ought to see how frequently TI and others change their baths, or conversely, what they hold the phosphor content to. A recommendation I was handed was that P. content shouldn't exceed about 8%, though I've heard of 10% being acceptable. You have my heart-felt sympathy with your bains (and yes it is a proper term, as in 'bain of your life'). Peter "Furrow, Robert Gordon To: [log in to unmask] (Bob)" cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST <furrow@LUCEN Aero/ST Group) T.COM> Subject: Re: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a Sent by: question... TechNet <[log in to unmask] ORG> 03/13/02 10:01 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob)" Earl, As others have stated, the 10X picture looks like there was never intended to be a ball there. Maybe it is the lower mag and a trick of the lighting that makes it look that way. Anyway, on the other pics it looks a lot like a clean fracture right at the intermetallic layer. Is the underlying metal nickel? Was the BGA fabricator using ENIG as a solderability coating prior to the attachment of the balls? Could this be another case of "black pad"? I know we have had instances where this has been the case. Very low level identified, but who knows how many times the actual cause is overlooked. As with the ENIG issue on PWB surfaces, some suppliers may be able to completely eliminate the problem, others may have it at a low level, and the unfortunate few may be plagued with this problem. Just some questions you might want to check in to. Thanks, Robert Furrow Printed Wiring Board Engineer Supply Chain Networks Lucent Technologies 978-960-3224 [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:31 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Earls pics are up, and a question... Jim, BGA's used to be my best friend, except for Arleen Weinberger and other ladies of extreme beauty and brains. Now they are a bain, if tha's a proper term. It's like the whole BGA world has gone to hell. Even board suppliers are starting to suck who once had my total faith and confidence based on constant evaluation, re-evaluation, and qualification. At least now I have a compadre in this mess. Thanks for sharing the gief but I'm honestly stumped but for an undying dedication to gettin this damn thing resolved. The TI thing was bad enough but now another major supplier adds to the MESS. Did you give us your paper and/or its location? I'm reading all I can, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, notwithstanding posting my brains and guts out on this site. Hell, even Sir Werner and his cohorts can't do much. It has to be up to the suppliers to come forth. Thought I was working concurrently with TI. Now I'm not sure again, and haven't even begun talking with the other major supplier with whom my last pics are associated. Your statement about "Every time there was a component failure, it was attributed to an open BGA solder joint" sure used to ring true but was resolved, for a time. It seems now to be coming back. Sorry about your, hopefully healed black eye, but should not have been the case. However, some should suffer such a fate based on your thoughts about how the missing ball attachment area looked compared to mine. This solder "remnant" crap is exactly my problem and others soon to experience it. All other surface conditions point to some process management inadequacies and someone knows what they are and what are the failure modes/mechanisms. Just looks like unsolderable surfaces to me and whatever happened to the IMC layer whether too thick, too thin, or just plane way to oxidized. My progress is limited to a very small company resource capability. The company has spent way too much time and money doing minimal analysis. Who the hell could afford to do more anyway. Like Sir Werner says, this crap is just being thrown over the fence for all us ROOKIES to suck through a garden hose. I don't do that. I believe you're right about the nickel gold thing. What else could it be. TI even admitted one of its suppliers was replaced to do a better job. That hasn't been proven yet either. Maybe Friday it will when we get our first assemblies. We'll ge to the bottom, and I do mean bottom, of this soon but maybe not soon enough for some. Thanks JM for some outstanding insights. Finally feels a bit, though sadly, comforting having someone else having gone through this. Earl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you.] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:04:32 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" As an EMS and supporter of board houses I think you need to be careful here. When scoring or routing with tabs you are removing material that may allow the panel to bow and twist all over the place. Methodical DFM should be practiced up front. Rick -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:16 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Board Bow and Twist Hi Jim If you assemble PANELS then the bow and twist is measured on the PANELS. If you assemble INDIVIDUAL BOARDS then the bow and twist is measured on INDIVIDUAL BOARDS. Susan Mansilla Robisan Lab ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:10:47 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Dave Hillman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: High Rel BGA Guidelines X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Bob! I recommend you contact Lee Whiteman at ACI/EMPF ("Lee Whiteman" <[log in to unmask]>) to look at the EMMA program Technical Assessment Guidelines (TAG). The TAG documents a 2 year NavyMantech program in which ACI/Rockwell Collins/Crane/Raytheon looked at 21 types of area array components on a variety of board laminate and surface finishes under vibration, thermal cycling, and bias humidity testing conditions. Good Luck. Dave Hillman Rockwell Collins [log in to unmask] "Crain, Bob" <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 03/13/2002 03:44:28 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to "Crain, Bob" <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: [TN] High Rel BGA Guidelines We may soon be adding BGAs to our approved parts list for some programs. We use polyamide boards and require electrical test under vibration and thermal cycling. What are the most important factors to address to maximize our success? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:20:28 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim: We just went thru a similar issue with our "FORMER" PCB supplier. If that was their response, make this RMA the last correspondence with their PCB house. You are having these boards manufactured on the panel so Bow and Twist is still a factor. I am being driven crazy by customer service in this industry. Thank goodness for IPC and a place to vent. Heck, if they don't RMA these panels, just spread the word to us TechNetters so we'll know who not to waste time with!!! But hell I bet we could all tell you the same story. When will the powers that be ever learn? After three RMA's out of four PO's in December, the supplier actually had the audacity to call and ask why they haven't seen any business lately!!! Excuse the pun but I wanted to tell them to do the math!!! Low Cost Suppliers = Low paid employees + POOR QUALITY Ken -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Marsico, James Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 7:49 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Board Bow and Twist I think this is a no-brainer, but here goes... We were delivered boards in panel form from one of our suppliers. At Incoming Inspection, the panel was rejected for excessive bow (>75% for SMT) and returned the supplier. The supplier called me and said that even though the panel exceeded the bow requirement, the individual boards were acceptable. When I quoted the bow and twist requirement from IPC-6012, "Panels which contain multiple printed boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated shall be assessed in panel form." , he said yes, you measure the individual boards in the panel. I need clarification. Thanks, Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:28:30 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Lee Whiteman <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Lee Whiteman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: High Rel BGA Guidelines X-To: "Crain, Bob" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, The recently completed EMMA (Electronic Miniaturization for Missile Application) Program documented the performance of specific Leaded Surface Mount, BGA, Flip Chip, and CSP electronic packages for vibration and thermal reliability, on different board materials (FR4, Thermount, Polyimide) and board finishes (OSP, ENIG). If you (or anyone else) wishes information on the program and its results, please contact me DIRECTLY (not through the TechNet Forum - I don't want to offend the TechNet community). Lee Whiteman Senior Manufacturing Engineer E-Mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Ph: (610) 362-1200 x208 Fax: (610) 362-1290 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Crain, Bob > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 4:44 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] High Rel BGA Guidelines > > > We may soon be adding BGAs to our approved parts list for some > programs. We > use polyamide boards and require electrical test under vibration > and thermal > cycling. What are the most important factors to address to maximize our > success? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:37:20 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Person Search MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" G'day Tnetters. I am looking for a gentleman by the name of Anthony (Tony) Jepson. any help is appreciated. this is a long shot by the way. Barry. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:38:40 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist two answers X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" wow. i love this response. phil -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 5:21 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Board Bow and Twist two answers Hi Jim This is not a question where "the most votes" determines the answer. The last sentence in para 3.4.4 states Panels which contain multiple printed boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated SHALL be assessed in panel form. Susan Mansilla --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:45:44 +0200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Coating thickness X-To: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jean-François Coat a lump of metal at the same time and use that to measure the thickness. Brian "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" wrote: > > Hi All, > > Does anyone now of a technique or system to check conformal coating > thickness after it's dry on production units? We have a positector to > measure paint thickness on our enclosures but they're not design to > work on materials like PCB. > > Jean-François Bissonnette > Vérificateur, Contrôle de la Qualité > Électronique > Produits et Procédés > Vapor Rail Inc. > 10655 Henri-Bourassa O. > St-Laurent, Qc > H4S 1A1 > > (514) 335-4200 x2021 > (514) 335-4231 fax > > <<Bissonnette, Jean-Francois.vcf>> > > WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE > The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named herein. If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:48:51 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Barmuta, Mike" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Barmuta, Mike" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Unusual plated 'stuff' on copper surface X-To: Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Frank: I'm not sure what copper II is, I assume you are referring to pattern plate electrolytic copper. I have seen a similar occurrence of random appearing metallic fibers that was driving me crazy because I couldn't find the source. Showed up on only a few panels in a load but not in every load. Finally found the source, the plating operator was using a "Scotch Brite" type pad to scrub down and clean anode bars and exposed areas of the tank. He did not do it on every load, only occasionally, beginning of shift, end of shift etc. As these cleaning pads aged over time they began to break down and the metallic fibers would go into the plating bath. When the a load of boards was placed in the bath after this cleaning and electrified; ZAP the fibers would be attracted and co-deposited onto the surface of the first boards in the tank. I have also found these same pads sucked up in the filtration system and decomposing causing similar conditions. I don't know if that's what your fighting but it's worth looking into. Good Luck! Regards Michael Barmuta Staff Engineer Fluke Corp. Everett WA 425-446-6076 -----Original Message----- From: Franklin D Asbell [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 5:23 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Unusual plated 'stuff' on copper surface This past January we began seeing unusual 'growths' ((for lack of better descriptive wording)) on the surface of panels after copper II, they are typically observed on one end of the panels, often only a couple panels per tankload exhibit this. These 'growths' look like fine strands of metal of fabric fibers, they are clustered together like someone poor shavings there, and plated over them. If any of you recall pics of those bacteria found in that Mars asteroid from the Antarctic, they appear similar to that (not saying we have bacteria growing in our baths of course). Occasionally we see this out towards the center of panels, I don't believe we have ever seen all panels in a tankload exhibit this either. This condition is observed on one or two loads per day (out of about 20 - 30), some days not at all. We started seeing this in one bath (of three in house) until recently it appeared in another bath simultaneously. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated as our process engineers, lab techs, and suppliers are baffled. Thanks, Franklin D Asbell Network Circuits, Inc. Irving, Texas 75061 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:49:51 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Coating thickness X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi, i assume that you are talking about measuring the coating thickness on = pwa's. if that's the case, i know of no way other than = microsectioning the assembly. the reason is that (other than with = parylene) it is impossible to get a uniform thickness. the problem has = to do with surface tension. sharp points, corners and edges probably = have no coating on them. fillets between components and the laminate = surface have relatively high thicknesses to them. the usual way to = control thickness (and it is essentially meaningless) is to coat a = 'witness' panel alongside the part you are coating. thickness is = determined by measuring the thickness of the panel before and after = coating. phil -----Original Message----- From: Bissonnette, Jean-Francois [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:58 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Coating thickness Hi All, Does anyone now of a technique or system to check conformal coating thickness after it's dry on production units? We have a positector to=20 measure paint thickness on our enclosures but they're not design to work on materials like PCB. Jean-Fran=E7ois Bissonnette V=E9rificateur, Contr=F4le de la Qualit=E9 =C9lectronique Produits et Proc=E9d=E9s Vapor Rail Inc. 10655 Henri-Bourassa O. St-Laurent, Qc H4S 1A1 (514) 335-4200 x2021 (514) 335-4231 fax <<Bissonnette, Jean-Francois.vcf>>=20 WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged = and confidential information intended only for the use of the = individual or entity named herein. If the reader of this transmission = is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any = dissemination, distribution, or copying of this transmission is = strictly prohibited. ------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & = Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or = 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:26:19 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Dave Hillman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Unusual plated 'stuff' on copper surface X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi Franklin! Do you have any photos which Steve could post on his websi= te? Photos would be very helpful. Dave Hillman Rockwell Collins [log in to unmask] Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 03/14/2002 07:23:11 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please res= pond to Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: [TN] Unusual plated 'stuff' on copper surface This past January we began seeing unusual 'growths' ((for lack of bett= er descriptive wording)) on the surface of panels after copper II, they a= re typically observed on one end of the panels, often only a couple panel= s per tankload exhibit this. These 'growths' look like fine strands of metal of fabric fibers, they= are clustered together like someone poor shavings there, and plated over t= hem. If any of you recall pics of those bacteria found in that Mars asteroi= d from the Antarctic, they appear similar to that (not saying we have bacteria growing in our baths of course). Occasionally we see this out towards the center of panels, I don't believe we have ever seen all pa= nels in a tankload exhibit this either. This condition is observed on one o= r two loads per day (out of about 20 - 30), some days not at all. We started seeing this in one bath (of three in house) until recently = it appeared in another bath simultaneously. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated as our process engineers= , lab techs, and suppliers are baffled. Thanks, Franklin D Asbell Network Circuits, Inc. Irving, Texas 75061 = --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:23:09 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Dave Hillman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Solderability of BGA X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Siggi! A number of folks are using the JSTD-002A Component Solderability specification - test method S "Surface Mount Process Simulation" test. The test methodology is to stencil a solderpaste footprint pattern onto a nonwettable surface, place the BGA onto the footprint pattern, reflow, clean and inspect. The BGA eutectic solderspheres and the solderpaste should melt together to form coherent spheres - if you have a solderability problem (e.g. contamination, oxidation) you would see wetting problems. Good Luck. Dave Hillman JSTD002A Chairman [log in to unmask] "Zweigart, Siegmund" <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 03/14/2002 03:03:07 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to "Zweigart, Siegmund" <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: [TN] Solderability of BGA Hello I am looking for some documents about solderability tests for BGA s with eutectik balls. Can anybody help me in this subject? We think that the BGA- Balls were touched by fingers and the solderiability is significant reduced. How can we analyse the component for fingerprints? We are thinking of looking for NaCl. Has anybody another idea? Siggi --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:56:48 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: High Rel BGA Guidelines X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What's the difference between polyimide and polyamide? **Polyimide is a high Tg material usually trademarked as Kapton. Polyamides are nylons and hot melt adhesives. Much lower heat resistance. Doug Pauls Rockwell Collins --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:02:06 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Coating thickness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_14c.a72c405.29c2237e_boundary" --part1_14c.a72c405.29c2237e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For silicone at least we have used an ultrasonic gauge with resolution to .0001" - only catch was thicknesses had to be greater than 2-3 mil for it to be accurate (we were applying 8 mils). The Panametrics gauge & transducer were calibrated to a sample of the coating. Regards, Mike Sewell --part1_14c.a72c405.29c2237e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2>For silicone at least we have used an ultrasonic gauge with resolution to .0001" - only catch was thicknesses had to be greater than 2-3 mil for it to be accurate (we were applying 8 mils). The Panametrics gauge & transducer were calibrated to a sample of the coating.<BR> <BR> Regards,<BR> Mike Sewell<BR> <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_14c.a72c405.29c2237e_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:07:06 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: [log in to unmask] Now this is starting to get interesting. The first comment about DFM, how about that? Taking it a step farther, as part of my stiring the pot response way earlier, we need to get sensible. You acceptance experts easily find the right IPC thing and test method. Well ain't that great. The whole point of this incredible exercise is about designing - not accepting after the damn thing does or does not work for BGA's or whatever needing minimal bow and twist. You hot shot designers out there have to be thinking about what you need. If you have a board needing .75% then design your board accordingly. As I said before, panelization is very important in this case. You must not design a two up panel when you know it will not be possible to meet the requirement. Board shops know most of this but designers must get on top of it. We all know about balanced constructions but few realize how designing a board's size and thickness on a panel will make or break you. If you're on the edge of being two up, and have a critical need, make sure it's done on a one up. If you have critical requirements, keep it simple stupid while realizing what design considerations you make will affect Ken Carlile's boards. His designers certainly did not think about it and look what he's bitching about now notwithstanding poor supplier selection. MoonStraightMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:22:50 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amen to your statement Moonman ----- Original Message ----- From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [TN] Board Bow and Twist > Now this is starting to get interesting. The first comment about DFM, how > about that? > > Taking it a step farther, as part of my stiring the pot response way > earlier, we need to get sensible. You acceptance experts easily find the > right IPC thing and test method. Well ain't that great. > > The whole point of this incredible exercise is about designing - not > accepting after the damn thing does or does not work for BGA's or whatever > needing minimal bow and twist. > > You hot shot designers out there have to be thinking about what you need. If > you have a board needing .75% then design your board accordingly. As I said > before, panelization is very important in this case. You must not design a > two up panel when you know it will not be possible to meet the requirement. > > Board shops know most of this but designers must get on top of it. We all > know about balanced constructions but few realize how designing a board's > size and thickness on a panel will make or break you. > > If you're on the edge of being two up, and have a critical need, make sure > it's done on a one up. If you have critical requirements, keep it simple > stupid while realizing what design considerations you make will affect Ken > Carlile's boards. His designers certainly did not think about it and look > what he's bitching about now notwithstanding poor supplier selection. > > > MoonStraightMan > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:11:53 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Pete Phillips <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Person Search X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Have you tried www.Switchoard.com > Pete > > Honeywell > > Peter A. Phillips > Principal Quality Engineer > OH-58 Kiowa Warrior > Defense Avionics Systems > 9201 San Mateo Blvd. NE > Mail Station NM75-C18 > Albuquerque, NM 87113-2227 > (505) 828-5078 Phone > (505) 828-5249 Fax > (505) 530-7147 Pager [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Barry Gallegos [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:37 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Person Search G'day Tnetters. I am looking for a gentleman by the name of Anthony (Tony) Jepson. any help is appreciated. this is a long shot by the way. Barry. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:31:59 -0500 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Chris Christian <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Person Search X-To: Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have you tried anywho.com? -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Barry Gallegos Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:37 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Person Search G'day Tnetters. I am looking for a gentleman by the name of Anthony (Tony) Jepson. any help is appreciated. this is a long shot by the way. Barry. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:32:48 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Roger Stoops <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Roger Stoops <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Food for thought: IF a board supplier can make an entire board the same size as your panel, and it meets the warp and twist spec for SMT, then why do they have difficulty with a board that has multiple images of a smaller board? I would hazard to think (and it IS a hazard) that the warp and twist spec would apply to the entire board, whether 1-up or multiple ups. Ask your board vendor, if they don't want to deliver a panelized board within spec, how could you trust them to deliver a single board, the same size, within spec? And don't accept an argument of "routing between the panels relieves stress so they warp easily." What if the single large board had multiple routes/cutouts? Either the board design needs to be examined for balance of design, or your vendor. Sounds like they may have lost control of their process somewhere. Sincerely, Roger M. Stoops, CID [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Marsico, James [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 7:49 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Board Bow and Twist I think this is a no-brainer, but here goes... We were delivered boards in panel form from one of our suppliers. At Incoming Inspection, the panel was rejected for excessive bow (>75% for SMT) and returned the supplier. The supplier called me and said that even though the panel exceeded the bow requirement, the individual boards were acceptable. When I quoted the bow and twist requirement from IPC-6012, "Panels which contain multiple printed boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated shall be assessed in panel form." , he said yes, you measure the individual boards in the panel. I need clarification. Thanks, Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:52:23 -0800 Reply-To: Leo Roos <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Leo Roos <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Coating thickness X-To: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: One of the ways development laboratories determine coating thickness is by measuring dry coating weight. For filled soldermask, a coating weight between ~35-40 mg/100 sq. cm translates into 2.5 microns thickness. Unfortunately, this is only an average thickness over the entire board, lines etc., but it is indicative to some degree of coating thickness. In the case of unfilled organic materials, the factor is ~30 mg/100 sq. cm. These values were obtained by measuring densities of the materials and converting these to the above factors using actual measurements. Leo Roos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:58 AM Subject: [TN] Coating thickness ---------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:02:13 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Lee Whiteman <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Lee Whiteman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: High Rel BGA Guidelines X-To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GANG, Like I said, give me a call DIRECTLY, offline so that I do not offend the TechNet community. Give me the following information (for ACI's records) and I'll get a CD-ROM made up for you. Name Title Company Name Address (Shipping since I plan to Airborne Express it to you.) Telephone Number FAX Number E-Mail Give me a couple of days but you'll get it. Lee Whiteman Senior Manufacturing Engineer E-Mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Ph: (610) 362-1200 x208 Fax: (610) 362-1290 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Dave Hillman > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:11 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] High Rel BGA Guidelines > > > Hi Bob! I recommend you contact Lee Whiteman at ACI/EMPF ("Lee Whiteman" > <[log in to unmask]>) to look at the EMMA program Technical Assessment > Guidelines (TAG). The TAG documents a 2 year NavyMantech program in which > ACI/Rockwell Collins/Crane/Raytheon looked at 21 types of area array > components on a variety of board laminate and surface finishes under > vibration, thermal cycling, and bias humidity testing conditions. Good > Luck. > > Dave Hillman > Rockwell Collins > [log in to unmask] > > > > > > "Crain, Bob" <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 03/13/2002 03:44:28 PM > > Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; > Please respond > to "Crain, Bob" <[log in to unmask]> > > Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> > > > To: [log in to unmask] > cc: > > Subject: [TN] High Rel BGA Guidelines > > > We may soon be adding BGAs to our approved parts list for some > programs. We > use polyamide boards and require electrical test under vibration and > thermal > cycling. What are the most important factors to address to maximize our > success? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:01:14 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: [log in to unmask] Right on Roger, The big thing, even before DFM/CE, is to properly evaluate and qualify suppliers. What's wrong with this picture? Simply, it needs a picture. Start with the master drawing notes. Anyone remeber them, read them, reply to them, use them, or other wise abuse them? Hell, most suppliers worth a salt respond and critisize them as part of the CE process. Some actually offer constructive suggestions while others just go away or say it can't be done. Still others say sure we can do it with no hope of even coming close to understanding or meeting requirements. Specify away all you want. If the master drawing does not exactly say what you demand, you won't get it. Also, you won't even know what your supplier is going to do to your dumb ass. My simple thesis in all this is evaluate, qualify, and use only those suppliers qualified to do what you demand on the master drawing. Then, accept your dumb ass away all you want but ass is the back end of everything. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:22:37 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Atkinson, Neil" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Atkinson, Neil" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: lead Free MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" One of our suppliers is 'proposing' a new lead free finish which he says will solder perfectly well with 'normal' SnPb solder as well as Lead Free. The finishes they are proposing are SnAg, SnBi and SnCuAg. my question is, Does anyone have experience with using these finishes through a normal process and are there any 'pitfalls' top look out for. There is a lot of talk about total Pb free processes but what about the interim - are the new finishes 'backwards compatible'!! Thanks in anticipation of everyone's responses. Neil ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:24:45 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: QUALIFIED SUPPLIERS For anyone interested, or not, My client followed my dumb ass suggestion to use one of my "qualified" suppliers. My client now is frustrated. Wonder why? One of the best little board shops sent some "good" boards back with a required xsection slug with no photos. As dear Susan says at Robisan, we don't send photomicrographs with good boards. I say please do it anyway because we need to keep records, and train our people what looks good or bad even though we are not as HIGHLY qualified as the lab. My client asked for a photomicrograph from our supplier. The response was: what's a photomicrographs? I'm going back to my cave. What the hell is going on outside will no longer concern me as you all keep asking what's wrong with quality and suppliers these days. MoonNowBackInCaveMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:47:37 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Coating thickness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Brian. We place a 2x3" piece of aluminum plate next to = the assembly during coating, which gets coated at the same time. A part of = the plate is masked with tape so you can measure before and after cure. Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>=20 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: Brian Ellis [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:46 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Coating thickness Jean-Fran=E7ois Coat a lump of metal at the same time and use that to measure the thickness. Brian "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" wrote: > > Hi All, > > Does anyone now of a technique or system to check conformal coating > thickness after it's dry on production units? We have a positector to > measure paint thickness on our enclosures but they're not design to > work on materials like PCB. > > Jean-Fran=E7ois Bissonnette > V=E9rificateur, Contr=F4le de la Qualit=E9 > =C9lectronique > Produits et Proc=E9d=E9s > Vapor Rail Inc. > 10655 Henri-Bourassa O. > St-Laurent, Qc > H4S 1A1 > > (514) 335-4200 x2021 > (514) 335-4231 fax > > <<Bissonnette, Jean-Francois.vcf>> > > WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE > The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of = the individual or entity named herein. If the reader of this transmission = is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ----- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ----- =09 ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 =09 ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:53:42 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Unusual plated 'stuff' on copper surface MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPartTM-000-b490e756-3763-11d6-b56a-00508bf7d80d" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------=_NextPartTM-000-b490e756-3763-11d6-b56a-00508bf7d80d Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB81.2DC772B0" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB81.2DC772B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey Frank, We're talking electrolytic and not electroless right? Dendrites on the panel edges sound like copper burning but your folks have to know about that. Sounds like a random, process related cause. When are adds made? How often do you carbon treat? Do you use plating bags (where could the fibers be coming from)? We had a new plating operator take it upon himself to "clean" plating bars with the old circulation filter once a week. We'd turn the agitation off and you'd see these white fuzzies floating in the tanks but I'd never heard of any getting plated. I've also heard of metal tools getting "lost" in the bottom of a tank and that contributing to weird plating but it showed on every batch. Hans AC-130 Gunship Motto: "You can run but you'll only die tired." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hans M. Hinners Electronics Engineer Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE) 226 Cochran Street Robins AFB GA 31098-1622 mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Com: (478) 926 - 5224 Fax: (478) 926 - 4911 DSN Prefix: 468 -----Original Message----- From: Franklin D Asbell [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:23 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Unusual plated 'stuff' on copper surface This past January we began seeing unusual 'growths' ((for lack of better descriptive wording)) on the surface of panels after copper II, they are typically observed on one end of the panels, often only a couple panels per tankload exhibit this. These 'growths' look like fine strands of metal of fabric fibers, they are clustered together like someone poor shavings there, and plated over them. If any of you recall pics of those bacteria found in that Mars asteroid from the Antarctic, they appear similar to that (not saying we have bacteria growing in our baths of course). Occasionally we see this out towards the center of panels, I don't believe we have ever seen all panels in a tankload exhibit this either. This condition is observed on one or two loads per day (out of about 20 - 30), some days not at all. We started seeing this in one bath (of three in house) until recently it appeared in another bath simultaneously. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated as our process engineers, lab techs, and suppliers are baffled. Thanks, Franklin D Asbell Network Circuits, Inc. Irving, Texas 75061 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB81.2DC772B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><SPAN class=028554614-14032002><FONT color=#0000ff>Hey Frank,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=028554614-14032002><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=028554614-14032002><FONT color=#0000ff>We're talking electrolytic and not electroless right?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=028554614-14032002><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=028554614-14032002><FONT color=#0000ff>Dendrites on the panel edges sound like copper burning but your folks have to know about that. Sounds like a random, process related cause. When are adds made? How often do you carbon treat? Do you use plating bags (where could the fibers be coming from)? </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=028554614-14032002><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=028554614-14032002><FONT color=#0000ff>We had a new plating operator take it upon himself to "clean" plating bars with the old circulation filter once a week. We'd turn the agitation off and you'd see these white fuzzies floating in the tanks but I'd never heard of any getting plated. I've also heard of metal tools getting "lost" in the bottom of a tank and that contributing to weird plating but it showed on every batch. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=028554614-14032002><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=028554614-14032002><FONT color=#0000ff>Hans</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=028554614-14032002><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=028554614-14032002> <P><FONT face=Verdana>AC-130 Gunship Motto: "You can run but you'll only die tired."</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>Hans M. Hinners</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>Electronics Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>226 Cochran Street</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>Robins AFB GA 31098-1622</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Verdana><A href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Verdana>Com: (478) 926 - 5224</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>Fax: (478) 926 - 4911</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>DSN Prefix: 468</FONT> </P></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Franklin D Asbell [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:23 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Unusual plated 'stuff' on copper surface<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This past January we began seeing unusual 'growths' ((for lack of better descriptive wording)) on the surface of panels after copper II, they are typically observed on one end of the panels, often only a couple panels per tankload exhibit this.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>These 'growths' look like fine strands of metal of fabric fibers, they are clustered together like someone poor shavings there, and plated over them. If any of you recall pics of those bacteria found in that Mars asteroid from the Antarctic, they appear similar to that (not saying we have bacteria growing in our baths of course). Occasionally we see this out towards the center of panels, I don't believe we have ever seen all panels in a tankload exhibit this either. This condition is observed on one or two loads per day (out of about 20 - 30), some days not at all.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We started seeing this in one bath (of three in house) until recently it appeared in another bath simultaneously.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Any help on this would be greatly appreciated as our process engineers, lab techs, and suppliers are baffled.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Franklin D Asbell</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Network Circuits, Inc.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Irving, Texas 75061</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CB81.2DC772B0-- ------=_NextPartTM-000-b490e756-3763-11d6-b56a-00508bf7d80d-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:56:57 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain WOW! Seem to hit on a touchy subject! Jim Marsico --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:59:25 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Bow and Twist and Stds and TMs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_207D8101.28492996" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_207D8101.28492996 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Several statements in this discussion thread lend themselves to IPC = position responses. 1. IPC-TM-650 test methods provide a standardize means to reach a = conclusion. The test methods do not provide pass/fail criteria for the = conclusion. 2. A standard provides the pass/fail criteria for a given use of a test = method; e.g. 2.4.22 is referenced by the bare board acceptance documents = IPC-6012 and IPC-A-600 and these standards provide maximum bow and twist = allowances for SMT and through-hole bare boards. 3. The acceptance criteria from any standard is only applicable when the = user and the supplier agree to use it (see the "Notice" on the inside = cover of any IPC standard). 4. Most IPC standards have a precedence clause that states the procurement = contract/documentation/drawings take precedence over the standard. Any = documented agreement between user and supplier such as Jim Marsico's 2% = bow and twist example effectively become the criteria the supplier has to = work to. The term "exception statement" is sometimes applied to this = situation.=20 Don't lose sight of your goal: (1) have parts/materials that are (2) = usable in the defined process to (3) provide an product that (4) meets = form/fit/function/reliability of the next assembly. The assembler/supplier = should know what (2) is; the end user should know what (4) is. IPC-A-610 = has a good statement in 1.3 that can be applied to most industry consensus = standards:=20 "IPC-A-610, as an industry consensus document, cannot address all of the = possible components and product design combinations. However, the standard = does provide criteria for commonly used technologies. Where uncommon or = specialized components or technologies are necessary, good judgment should = be used while applying the criteria of this standard. However, where = similar characteristics exist, this document may provide guidance for = product acceptance criteria. Often, unique definition is necessary to = consider the specialized characteristics while considering product = performance criteria. The development should include customer involvement = or consent and the criteria should include agreed definition of product = acceptance. "Whenever possible this criteria should be submitted to the IPC Technical = Committee to be considered for inclusion in upcoming revisions of this = standard." Jack =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D APEX 2003 - the industry's premier trade show in Electronics Manufacturing, March 31-April 2, 2003, Anaheim, California. More information on website www.goapex.org -------- Jack Crawford, IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology 2215 Sanders Road, Northbrook IL 60062-6135 [log in to unmask] 847-790-5393 fax 847-504-2393 --=_207D8101.28492996 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: HTML <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"= > <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: = 2px"> <DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>Several statements in this discussion thread = lend=20 themselves to IPC position responses.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. IPC-TM-650 test methods provide a standardize means to reach a=20 conclusion. The test methods do not provide pass/fail criteria for = the=20 conclusion.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. A standard provides the pass/fail criteria for a given use of a = test=20 method; e.g. 2.4.22 is referenced by the bare board acceptance documents=20= IPC-6012 and IPC-A-600 and these standards provide maximum bow and = twist=20 allowances for SMT and through-hole bare boards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. The acceptance criteria from any standard is only applicable when = the=20 user and the supplier agree to use it (see the "Notice" on the inside = cover=20 of any IPC standard).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4. Most IPC standards have a precedence clause that states the = procurement=20 contract/documentation/drawings take precedence over the standard. Any=20 documented agreement between user and supplier such as Jim Marsico's 2% = bow and=20 twist example effectively become the criteria the supplier has to work to. = The=20 term "exception statement" is sometimes applied to this situation. </D= IV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't lose sight of your goal: (1) have parts/materials that are = (2)=20 usable in the defined process to (3) provide an product that (4) meets=20 form/fit/function/reliability of the next assembly. The assembler/supplier= =20 should know what (2) is; the end user should know what (4) is. IPC-A-610 = has a=20 good statement in 1.3 that can be applied to most industry consensus = standards:=20 </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"IPC-A-610, as an industry consensus document, cannot address all of = the=20 possible components and product design combinations. However, the standard = does=20 provide criteria for commonly used technologies. Where uncommon or = specialized=20 components or technologies are necessary, good judgment should be used = while=20 applying the criteria of this standard. However, where similar characterist= ics=20 exist, this document may provide guidance for product acceptance = criteria.=20 Often, unique definition is necessary to consider the specialized=20 characteristics while considering product performance criteria. The = development=20 should include customer involvement or consent and the criteria should = include=20 agreed definition of product acceptance.</DIV> <DIV><BR>"Whenever possible this criteria should be submitted to the = IPC=20 Technical Committee to be considered for inclusion in upcoming revisions = of this=20 standard."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jack</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>APEX 2003 - = the industry's=20 premier trade show in Electronics<BR>Manufacturing, March 31-April 2, = 2003,=20 Anaheim, California.<BR>More information on website <A=20 href=3D"http://www.goapex.org">www.goapex.org</A><BR>--------<BR>Jack = Crawford,=20 IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology<BR>2215 Sanders Road,=20 Northbrook IL 60062-6135<BR><A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> <BR>847-790-5393<BR>fax= =20 847-504-2393</DIV></BODY></HTML> --=_207D8101.28492996-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:01:32 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Gregg Klawson <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Gregg Klawson <[log in to unmask]> Subject: HDI thermal stress IPC-6016 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Hello Technetters, We're having a little trouble interpreting the HDI spec, IPC-6016, paragraph 3.6.1, "Thermal Stress Method". This paragraph tells us to test per IPC-TM-650, method 2.6.8 condition B and "the number of cycles shall be five (unless limited by the number of stress cycles acceptable for the core board) or as specified on the appropriate slash sheet." Does this mean we are to float the test coupon on the solder pot five times?? The TM doesn't say anything about more than one dip in the solder pot? Five, 10 second floats on 260C solder seems a bit harsh and un-realistic. What am I missing? Best regards, Gregg Klawson General Dynamics C4 Systems Taunton, Massachusetts, USA mailto:[log in to unmask] The views expressed are the author's and do not necessarily reflect the official position of General Dynamics or any of its subsidiaries. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:22:11 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Carroll, George" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Carroll, George" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Coating thickness X-To: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We use a CMI CGX-B. It's an eddy current device, I believe. The catch = is that you have to measure over bare copper and the unit has to be = calibrated on the same type of subtrate (uncoated ) as you will measure the = coating. Our process is conveyorized (horizontal)with a programmed robot = sprayer. What I've had done is to have FR-4 cut up into 1/2 X 3/4" squares and = have the operator place a square in an area that will be coated. After the = drying oven, the coating on the square is measured using the CMI. The area = where the test square sat is touched up. We have some designs that have = bare copper areas left on the panel border for measuring and we've also used copper adhesive tape. Again, the key is to calibrate on an identical substrate. A certified thickness of mylar is used for calibration. I believe a beta back-scatter device would also be capable. George Carroll Process Engineer Siemens Energy and Automation Johnson City, TN [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Bissonnette, Jean-Francois [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 9:58 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Coating thickness Hi All, Does anyone now of a technique or system to check conformal coating thickness after it's dry on production units? We have a positector to=20 measure paint thickness on our enclosures but they're not design to work on materials like PCB. Jean-Fran=E7ois Bissonnette V=E9rificateur, Contr=F4le de la Qualit=E9 =C9lectronique Produits et Proc=E9d=E9s Vapor Rail Inc. 10655 Henri-Bourassa O. St-Laurent, Qc H4S 1A1 (514) 335-4200 x2021 (514) 335-4231 fax <<Bissonnette, Jean-Francois.vcf>>=20 WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged = and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named herein. If the reader of this transmission is not the = intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, = distribution, or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & = Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or = 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:42:47 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: lead Free X-To: "Atkinson, Neil" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <717AC798D8CBD211B6B70004AC4C5685726DBA@SERVER01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The three alloys you mention are three of the "top dogs" in the hunt for a lead-free alloy. They are not drop in. Check out the IPC Leadfree discussion group. http://jefry.ipc.org/archives/leadfree.html > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Atkinson, Neil > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:23 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] lead Free > > > One of our suppliers is 'proposing' a new lead free finish which he says > will solder perfectly well with 'normal' SnPb solder as well as Lead Free. > > The finishes they are proposing are SnAg, SnBi and SnCuAg. my > question is, > Does anyone have experience with using these finishes through a normal > process and are there any 'pitfalls' top look out for. > > There is a lot of talk about total Pb free processes but what about the > interim - are the new finishes 'backwards compatible'!! > > Thanks in anticipation of everyone's responses. > > Neil > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:42:12 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Coating thickness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This works great and it's the process we mainly use to verify coating thickness but one word of caution. When we have a new operator we = stress the importance of proper coating thickness. Because of this emphasis I have observed the operator paying more attention to coating the coupon than = the circuit boards. To help prevent this we place the coupon on a little = stand in the middle of the pallet of boards they are spraying. By the way we = use glass coupons instead of metal. KennyB -----Original Message----- From: Marsico, James [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 9:48 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Coating thickness I agree with Brian. We place a 2x3" piece of aluminum plate next to = the assembly during coating, which gets coated at the same time. A part of = the plate is masked with tape so you can measure before and after cure. Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>=20 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: Brian Ellis [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:46 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Coating thickness Jean-Fran=E7ois Coat a lump of metal at the same time and use that to measure = the thickness. Brian "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" wrote: > > Hi All, > > Does anyone now of a technique or system to check conformal coating > thickness after it's dry on production units? We have a positector to > measure paint thickness on our enclosures but they're not = design to > work on materials like PCB. > > Jean-Fran=E7ois Bissonnette > V=E9rificateur, Contr=F4le de la Qualit=E9 > =C9lectronique > Produits et Proc=E9d=E9s > Vapor Rail Inc. > 10655 Henri-Bourassa O. > St-Laurent, Qc > H4S 1A1 > > (514) 335-4200 x2021 > (514) 335-4231 fax > > <<Bissonnette, Jean-Francois.vcf>> > > WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE > The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of = the individual or entity named herein. If the reader of this transmission = is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ----- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using = LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with = following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail = to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources = & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm = for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ----- =09 ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using = LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with = following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 =09 ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & = Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or = 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:15:36 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Coating thickness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Another method for measuring thickness is to do a wet gage test at the time of coating. As mentioned before this is only good for the flat surfaces and gives you no indication of peaks and valleys. We do witness coupons on hand sprayed and Parylene assemblies and wet gage testing for select area coated assemblies . KennyB --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:00:29 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: HELP! EMERGENCY! Need an Emerald Part!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_17a.51642f4.29c2777d_boundary" --part1_17a.51642f4.29c2777d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi ya'll! I know this is going to be an extreme longshot, but I'm in desperate need of a Assemblion Emerald 54mm front light camera mirror (part number 5322-380-10285). Ours got cracked somehow (still haven't found out how, probably never will...). Called Assemblion and was given a 1-week lead time...peachy huh? I know that there probably won't be anyone that keeps these as spares (they're $470 each), but if there is, you will be compensated appropriately if we can buy it from you and replace it with the one that we'll get in a week....(I told you this was going to be a longshot!) -Steve "why me?" Gregory- --part1_17a.51642f4.29c2777d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi ya'll! <BR> <BR>I know this is going to be an extreme longshot, but I'm in desperate need of a Assemblion Emerald 54mm front light camera mirror (part number 5322-380-10285). <BR> <BR>Ours got cracked somehow (still haven't found out how, probably never will...). Called Assemblion and was given a 1-week lead time...peachy huh? <BR> <BR>I know that there probably won't be anyone that keeps these as spares (they're $470 each), but if there is, you will be compensated appropriately if we can buy it from you and replace it with the one that we'll get in a week....(I told you this was going to be a longshot!) <BR> <BR>-Steve "why me?" Gregory- </FONT></HTML> --part1_17a.51642f4.29c2777d_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:03:10 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Coating thickness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We thought of that and it seems one very logical thing to do. The only problem is that=20 the boards are coated at our supplier's plant. And you know how QA persons are... how can we prove that the aluminum part was coated at the same time then the batch etc... We have to monitor our supplier and got solid evidences. Thank you all! If any other idea has not been through yet don't hesitate... I'm all ears... or all EYES! JF -----Original Message----- From: Marsico, James [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:48 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Coating thickness I agree with Brian. We place a 2x3" piece of aluminum plate next to the assembly during coating, which gets coated at the same time. A part of the plate is masked with tape so you can measure before and after cure. Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>=20 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: Brian Ellis [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 10:46 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Coating thickness Jean-Fran=E7ois Coat a lump of metal at the same time and use that to measure the thickness. Brian "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" wrote: > > Hi All, > > Does anyone now of a technique or system to check conformal coating > thickness after it's dry on production units? We have a positector to > measure paint thickness on our enclosures but they're not design to > work on materials like PCB. > > Jean-Fran=E7ois Bissonnette > V=E9rificateur, Contr=F4le de la Qualit=E9 > =C9lectronique > Produits et Proc=E9d=E9s > Vapor Rail Inc. > 10655 Henri-Bourassa O. > St-Laurent, Qc > H4S 1A1 > > (514) 335-4200 x2021 > (514) 335-4231 fax > > <<Bissonnette, Jean-Francois.vcf>> > > WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE > The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named herein. If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- =09 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 =09 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged and= confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or en= tity named herein. If the reader of this transmission is not the intended r= ecipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or = copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:20:54 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: High Rel BGA Guidelines X-To: "Crain, Bob" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One important thing is to know how your BGA is constructed, this can be found usually on the suppliers web. Unlike most other parts BGA's from different suppliers could be constructed different and this can affect your processing or result in differences in reliability. ----- Original Message ----- Wrom: OYIYZUNNYCGPKYLEJGDGVCJVTLBXFGGMEPYOQ To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:44 PM Subject: [TN] High Rel BGA Guidelines > We may soon be adding BGAs to our approved parts list for some programs. We > use polyamide boards and require electrical test under vibration and thermal > cycling. What are the most important factors to address to maximize our > success? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:14:42 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Rick Fudalewski <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Unusual plated 'stuff' on copper surface MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_157.a78c4f2.29c27ad2_boundary" --part1_157.a78c4f2.29c27ad2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Franklin understand that 99% of the time - anything seen after electroplating has already been metalized previously. my suggestion would be to look at what is happening in your metalization process. speaking of bacteria - last year while working in California - a client of mine told me that his copper bath plated a whiskered deposit. knowing this is very difficult to do - unless something has already been metalized - i started going through his electroless line - sure enough - they forgot to biotreat their DI lines - and actual fungus got carried over throughout the system - and kept on sticking to the corners of the panels (sharp edges where the panels are sheered) - once out of the catalyst tank - you had to look very closely - but the algae was floating at the bottom end of the panels. Sure enough - once it got into the copper plating line - it looked like whiskers forming at the end of the board. might want to check out your process - for other than that - i have no idea. one other factor could be a high degree of induced stress - but that would be throughout the whole board. regards Rich Fudalewski FCT --part1_157.a78c4f2.29c27ad2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Franklin <BR> <BR>understand that 99% of the time - anything seen after electroplating has already been metalized previously. my suggestion would be to look at what is happening in your metalization process. <BR> <BR>speaking of bacteria - last year while working in California - a client of mine told me that his copper bath plated a whiskered deposit. knowing this is very difficult to do - unless something has already been metalized - i started going through his electroless line - sure enough - they forgot to biotreat their DI lines - and actual fungus got carried over throughout the system - and kept on sticking to the corners of the panels (sharp edges where the panels are sheered) - once out of the catalyst tank - you had to look very closely - but the algae was floating at the bottom end of the panels. <BR> <BR>Sure enough - once it got into the copper plating line - it looked like whiskers forming at the end of the board. <BR> <BR>might want to check out your process - for other than that - i have no idea. one other factor could be a high degree of induced stress - but that would be throughout the whole board. <BR> <BR>regards <BR> <BR>Rich Fudalewski <BR> <BR>FCT</FONT></HTML> --part1_157.a78c4f2.29c27ad2_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:43:37 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: High Rel BGA Guidelines X-To: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Polyimide is a complete resin/curing agent system and is a C stage resin meaning it is full cured. Polyamides are a curing agents for epoxies. They are described on page 61 as preponderantly amines according to the book Epoxy Resin by Irving Skeist (1958) Wrom: YUCDDJBLVLMHAALPTCXLYRWTQTIPWIGYO To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [TN] High Rel BGA Guidelines > Bob, > > What's the difference between polyimide and polyamide? > > David A. Douthit > Manager > LoCan LLC > > "Crain, Bob" wrote: > > > We may soon be adding BGAs to our approved parts list for some programs. We > > use polyamide boards and require electrical test under vibration and thermal > > cycling. What are the most important factors to address to maximize our > > success? > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:57:16 -0000 Reply-To: Dougal Stewart <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Dougal Stewart <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: lead Free X-To: "Atkinson, Neil" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are you referring to a board supplier or component supplier ?- all board suppliers can provide lead free finishes today - Immersion tin, Enig, immersion silver and OSP -that will solder with ordinary tin lead solder alloy and with the lead free solders Dougal Stewart email: [log in to unmask] phone: +44 1896 822204 mob: +44 7984 629667 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Atkinson, Neil" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 5:22 PM Subject: [TN] lead Free > One of our suppliers is 'proposing' a new lead free finish which he says > will solder perfectly well with 'normal' SnPb solder as well as Lead Free. > > The finishes they are proposing are SnAg, SnBi and SnCuAg. my question is, > Does anyone have experience with using these finishes through a normal > process and are there any 'pitfalls' top look out for. > > There is a lot of talk about total Pb free processes but what about the > interim - are the new finishes 'backwards compatible'!! > > Thanks in anticipation of everyone's responses. > > Neil > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > http://www.star.net.uk > ________________________________________________________________________ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:32:13 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Malewicz Wesley <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Malewicz Wesley <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Prepreg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" What are the Pro and Con's of using a single sheet of prepreg vers using two sheets of prepreg? In our fabrication specification we specify that we require that two sheets of prepreg are to be used. For as long as I can remember we have always had this requirement and I would like to have a better understanding as to why we might need to continue. Thanking you in advance for your response. Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:58:49 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Machine part availability... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a vent sort of, and a question... Is it just me, or do others find that when they call the parts department of a automation company to order a replacement part for one of their machines, always find that there's lead time involved? When approached for you to buy their equipment it is always stated that you will be technically supported 24/7, and that spares are always a fed-ex overnight away. But when it comes down to reality, that's more often than not the exception, rather than the rule... I'm not singling out Assemblion, but I experience this situation across the board with all our machines...the situation seems to have gotten worse over the past couple of years... Am I the only one experiencing this? -Steve Gregory- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:03:17 +0800 Reply-To: jinhong <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: jinhong <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: PCB DESIGNER - DESIGN ENGINEER - PROTEL X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TmVlZCBhIHBvc2l0aW9uIG9yIG5lZWQgYSBQQ0IgZGVzaWduZXIgPyBXaGVyZT8NCi0tLS0tIE9y aWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQpGcm9tOiAiRWFybCBNb29uIiA8cG9kQElYLk5FVENPTS5D T00+DQpUbzogPFRlY2hOZXRASVBDLk9SRz4NClNlbnQ6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwgTWFyY2ggMTMsIDIw MDIgMTI6NTEgQU0NClN1YmplY3Q6IFtUTl0gUENCIERFU0lHTkVSIC0gREVTSUdOIEVOR0lORUVS IC0gUFJPVEVMDQoNCg0KPiBIYXZlIGEgZnJpZW5kIG5lZWRpbmcgYSBQcm9UZWwgZGVzaWduZXIg YW5kL29yIGRlc2lnbiBlbmdpbmVlci4gQW55b25lIG91dA0KPiB0aGVyZSBvciBvbiB0aGUgZGVz aWduZXJuZXQ/DQo+IA0KPiBNb29uTWFuDQo+IA0KPiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0N Cj4gVGVjaG5ldCBNYWlsIExpc3QgcHJvdmlkZWQgYXMgYSBmcmVlIHNlcnZpY2UgYnkgSVBDIHVz aW5nIExJU1RTRVJWIDEuOGQNCj4gVG8gdW5zdWJzY3JpYmUsIHNlbmQgYSBtZXNzYWdlIHRvIExJ U1RTRVJWQElQQy5PUkcgd2l0aCBmb2xsb3dpbmcgdGV4dCBpbg0KPiB0aGUgQk9EWSAoTk9UIHRo ZSBzdWJqZWN0IGZpZWxkKTogU0lHTk9GRiBUZWNobmV0DQo+IFRvIHRlbXBvcmFyaWx5IGhhbHQg ZGVsaXZlcnkgb2YgVGVjaG5ldCBzZW5kIGUtbWFpbCB0byBMaXN0c2VydkBpcGMub3JnOiBTRVQg VGVjaG5ldCBOT01BSUwNCj4gVG8gcmVjZWl2ZSBPTkUgbWFpbGluZyBwZXIgZGF5IG9mIGFsbCB0 aGUgcG9zdHM6IHNlbmQgZS1tYWlsIHRvIExpc3RzZXJ2QGlwYy5vcmc6IFNFVCBUZWNobmV0IERp Z2VzdA0KPiBTZWFyY2ggcHJldmlvdXMgcG9zdGluZ3MgYXQ6IHd3dy5pcGMub3JnID4gT24tTGlu ZSBSZXNvdXJjZXMgJiBEYXRhYmFzZXMgPiBFLW1haWwgQXJjaGl2ZXMNCj4gUGxlYXNlIHZpc2l0 IElQQyB3ZWIgc2l0ZSBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlwYy5vcmcvaHRtbC9mb3J1bS5odG0gZm9yIGFkZGl0 aW9uYWwNCj4gaW5mb3JtYXRpb24sIG9yIGNvbnRhY3QgS2VhY2ggU2FzYW1vcmkgYXQgc2FzYWtv QGlwYy5vcmcgb3IgODQ3LTUwOS05NzAwIGV4dC41MzE1DQo+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLQ0KPiANCg== --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:14:56 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Prepreg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wes In the "olden days" there was a problem with Z axis shorting, or "punch through" between layers in a multilayer board In order to prevent this, the mil spec required 2 layers of prepreg. . This became a standard call out in the U S because of the mil spec Agruable whether it was ever really needed, but that is the history. Do you need it now? Depends on your board, but you should be open to dropping the requirement if you don't need it, or the added cost Good Luck Jerry Sallo Sallo Consulting Services --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:53:57 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Michael Meltzer <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Michael Meltzer <[log in to unmask]> Subject: unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:01:38 -0600 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: pratap singh <[log in to unmask]> Organization: RAMP Inc. Subject: Re: Prepreg X-To: Malewicz Wesley <[log in to unmask]> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Wes, Two sheets of prepreg provide better control agains -epoxy starvation, voids. One sheet may have higher probability of developing meatl to metal shorts due to - voids, epoxy starvation, and possible migration paths along glass fibres. This probability is reduced when two sheets are used. These observations were based on actual production experience at one of the large board manufacturer. -- _________________________ pratap singh tel/fax: 512-255-6820 email: [log in to unmask] WEB: www.rampinc.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:08:11 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Machine part availability... X-To: [log in to unmask] Steve, Seems to be another sign of the times. Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:30:53 -0500 Reply-To: Ed Valentine <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ed Valentine <[log in to unmask]> Organization: Electronics Manufacturing Solutions Subject: Re: Machine part availability... X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve - Unfortunately, you are not alone. A current client of mine is having to wait weeks just to get feeders for a system that is less than 3 years old. Ed Valentine Electronics Manufacturing Solutions 8612 Mourning Dove Road, Raleigh, NC 27615 Phone: (919) 270-5145, Fax: (919) 847-9971 Email: [log in to unmask] Website: http://www.ems-consulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:58 PM Subject: [TN] Machine part availability... > This is a vent sort of, and a question... > > Is it just me, or do others find that when they call the parts department of > a automation company to order a replacement part for one of their machines, > always find that there's lead time involved? > > When approached for you to buy their equipment it is always stated that you > will be technically supported 24/7, and that spares are always a fed-ex > overnight away. But when it comes down to reality, that's more often than not > the exception, rather than the rule... > > I'm not singling out Assemblion, but I experience this situation across the > board with all our machines...the situation seems to have gotten worse over > the past couple of years... > > Am I the only one experiencing this? > > -Steve Gregory- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:53:38 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Machine part availability... X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_16c.a4ee396.29c2bc32_boundary" --part1_16c.a4ee396.29c2bc32_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit INCREDIBLE! Feeders to me from my humble perspective, would be something that you would want to have on hand for your customers. If you're a CEM, and want to be able to cut down on change-over times, you can have just as much invested in feeders for prior set-ups, as you have invested into the base machines. Customer support from assembly automation companies has declined terribly in my opinion. Any new investments in capital equipment from our company will have a very heightened focus in customer support and equipment spares. We're growing too, we do mostly DOD stuff and have recieved a very substantial contract awarded recently to manufacture checked baggage x-ray inspection equipment for airports...in other words we're busy....having a line down waiting a week for a mirror isn't good. -Steve Gregory- > Steve - > > Unfortunately, you are not alone. A current client of mine is having to > wait > weeks just to get feeders for a system that is less than 3 years old. > > Ed Valentine > Electronics Manufacturing Solutions > 8612 Mourning Dove Road, Raleigh, NC 27615 > Phone: (919) 270-5145, Fax: (919) 847-9971 > Email: [log in to unmask] > Website: http://www.ems-consulting.com > --part1_16c.a4ee396.29c2bc32_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>INCREDIBLE! Feeders to me from my humble perspective, would be something that you would want to have on hand for your customers. <BR> <BR> If you're a CEM, and want to be able to cut down on change-over times, you can have just as much invested in feeders for prior set-ups, as you have invested into the base machines.<BR> <BR> Customer support from assembly automation companies has declined terribly in my opinion. Any new investments in capital equipment from our company will have a very heightened focus in customer support and equipment spares. We're growing too, we do mostly DOD stuff and have recieved a very substantial contract awarded recently to manufacture checked baggage x-ray inspection equipment for airports...in other words we're busy....having a line down waiting a week for a mirror isn't good.<BR> <BR> -Steve Gregory-<BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Steve -<BR> <BR> Unfortunately, you are not alone. A current client of mine is having to wait<BR> weeks just to get feeders for a system that is less than 3 years old.<BR> <BR> Ed Valentine<BR> Electronics Manufacturing Solutions<BR> 8612 Mourning Dove Road, Raleigh, NC 27615<BR> Phone: (919) 270-5145, Fax: (919) 847-9971<BR> Email: [log in to unmask]<BR> Website: http://www.ems-consulting.com<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_16c.a4ee396.29c2bc32_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:26:05 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Machine part availability... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_146.b14d2a6.29c2c3cd_boundary" --part1_146.b14d2a6.29c2c3cd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Steve, > > Seems to be another sign of the times. > > Earl > Okay, it's another sign of the times. But heed this, all you lurkers out there from companies that sell assembly automation; be prepared to provide evidence of reliable customer support, provide evidence that the user can order a part and receive it within a reasonable amount of time (within 48-hours). Otherwise, don't even try to sell our company (or me) anything... It's really not too much to ask if you're a customer oriented company, now is it? -Steve Gregory- --part1_146.b14d2a6.29c2c3cd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Steve,<BR> <BR> Seems to be another sign of the times.<BR> <BR> Earl<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> Okay, it's another sign of the times. But heed this, all you lurkers out there from companies that sell assembly automation; be prepared to provide evidence of reliable customer support, provide evidence that the user can order a part and receive it within a reasonable amount of time (within 48-hours). <BR> <BR> Otherwise, don't even try to sell our company (or me) anything...<BR> <BR> It's really not too much to ask if you're a customer oriented company, now is it?<BR> <BR> -Steve Gregory-<BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_146.b14d2a6.29c2c3cd_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:00:14 -0600 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Seth Goodman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Soldering crimp connectors X-To: Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A crimp is an engineered connection, just like a solder joint. A properly made crimp connection is gas-tight and is not improved by soldering. The part about properly made bears repeated again and again, else it may not be gas-tight or the materials may be overstressed. This means that the wire must be of the appropriate cross-sectional area, material and stranding for the particular terminal. The wire insulation, if the terminal has an insulation crimp section, must have a diameter in the acceptable range and be of a compatible material. Especially important, the crimp die must be specifically designed for the crimp terminal and wire combination. The crimper/applicator/die combination must also operate to acceptable tolerances as determined by the manufacturer. After use, adjustments are sometimes needed and parts eventually need replacement. Just as in soldering, if your process is appropriate and you control it, the results are very, very repeatable. In fact, this is far easier to control than soldering, as there are fewer variables and regular preventive maintenance takes care of most problems. If you use a reasonable amount of connectors from a particular manufacturer, they are often willing to come in a couple of times a year to check over your tooling. As others have mentioned, soldering stranded wire creates a stress concentration point where the wire will usually break later. Wire insulation is melted during soldering, which loosens up the insulation crimp and changes the mechanical properties of the insulation. Flux entrapment is another issue I hadn't thought of and Doug's explanation was educational as to how this can bite you. For my money, a good mechanical crimp is more trouble-free than crimping plus soldering. Regards, Seth Goodman Goodman Associates, LLC tel 608.833.9933 fax 608.833.9966 -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Carl VanWormer Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 1:35 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Soldering crimp connectors We have a customer who insists that we solder our crimp connectors (after crimping). He has had corrosion problems and is convinced that this is the best solution. Is this a good thing? Are there any downsides we should point out to help educate him? Carl Van Wormer Cipher Systems 1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010 Beaverton, OR 97006 Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:08:52 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Richard Hamilton <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Richard Hamilton <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Machine part availability... X-To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hey Steve, Although I have been out of the scene since last May, I can say that based on my experience with 2 automatic machine companies, one solder machine company and one conveyor company I have not experienced what you are talking about. There have been some instances where we have seen that but generally it has been with an older machine/part or other understandable anomaly. Hell I have even had to order a micro processor board used for a machine and it was 'in stock'. Granted I do not have a large across the board experience with a lot of companies but I believe our selection process asked questions beyond 'How well do you service your customer?' and I think that was helpful in selecting manufacturers that we were not familiar with. My guess is your in the middle of a 'situation' that you did not have the opportunity to help create. I sympathize with and for you! Good luck. And if you want the mfgr names let me know off list. Richard Hamilton At 06:58 PM 3/14/02 -0500, you wrote: >This is a vent sort of, and a question... > >Is it just me, or do others find that when they call the parts department of >a automation company to order a replacement part for one of their machines, >always find that there's lead time involved? > >When approached for you to buy their equipment it is always stated that you >will be technically supported 24/7, and that spares are always a fed-ex >overnight away. But when it comes down to reality, that's more often than not >the exception, rather than the rule... > >I'm not singling out Assemblion, but I experience this situation across the >board with all our machines...the situation seems to have gotten worse over >the past couple of years... > >Am I the only one experiencing this? > >-Steve Gregory- > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------ >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: >SET Technet NOMAIL >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > >E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 >ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:01:29 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Mark Orlowski/PEMSTAR Inc <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Mark Orlowski/PEMSTAR Inc <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Mark Orlowski/PEMSTAR Inc is out of the office. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I will be out of the office starting 03/15/2002 and will not return until 03/21/2002. I will respond to your message when I return. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:33:13 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Atkinson, Neil" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Atkinson, Neil" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: lead Free MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" I'm afraid it's a component supplier - boards are so much easier - you tend to have more choice! Neil -----Original Message----- From: Dougal Stewart [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 14 March 2002 22:57 Subject: Re: lead Free Are you referring to a board supplier or component supplier ?- all board suppliers can provide lead free finishes today - Immersion tin, Enig, immersion silver and OSP -that will solder with ordinary tin lead solder alloy and with the lead free solders Dougal Stewart email: [log in to unmask] phone: +44 1896 822204 mob: +44 7984 629667 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Atkinson, Neil" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 5:22 PM Subject: [TN] lead Free > One of our suppliers is 'proposing' a new lead free finish which he says > will solder perfectly well with 'normal' SnPb solder as well as Lead Free. > > The finishes they are proposing are SnAg, SnBi and SnCuAg. my question is, > Does anyone have experience with using these finishes through a normal > process and are there any 'pitfalls' top look out for. > > There is a lot of talk about total Pb free processes but what about the > interim - are the new finishes 'backwards compatible'!! > > Thanks in anticipation of everyone's responses. > > Neil > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The > service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive > anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: > http://www.star.net.uk > ________________________________________________________________________ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 02:51:08 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Rod Smith <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Rod Smith <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Rod Smith/Endicott/IBM is out of the office. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I will be out of the office starting March 15, 2002 and will not return until March 18, 2002. I will respond to your message when I return. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:28:54 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Machine part availability... X-To: [log in to unmask] atta boy. nice vent --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:39:35 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Prepreg X-To: [log in to unmask] Again, but I love this stuff, you don't need two ply constructions except when you need them. You get very well balanced structures, from a resin to glass ratio point of view, with single ply preg and core material except when using 7628 types/styles. You never use this facing copper as it only has about 43% resin content and you may very well find starvation using it. I feel like I've written this before. Anyway, 2113 and 2116 glass styles offer the best of both laminate integrity (plenty of resin) and dimensional stability (plenty of glass). No problem using two plies of these types in whatever requirement. Two plies of 106 or 1080 isn't appropriate, if avoidable, because it's two resin rich and makes everything slip and slide in the press and that's a mess. As for the shorting issues, that's been resolved even by the military/aerospace folks for years. How many, I can't even remember. If you've seen this condition, as voiding and shorting etc., get a photo for us all to see. If proof exists, it has to be a billion to one shot and certainly would point to possible process control problems of an other than preg issue. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:56:53 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Jan Thuesen <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Jan Thuesen <[log in to unmask]> Subject: SV: [TN] Prepreg X-To: Malewicz Wesley <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We have had good results with only 1 sheet of prepreg. Be cautious the lamination press, tooling and all have to be in better shape as you loose much of the tendency to level out unevenness. You will se this as voids in the material amo. Use prepregs with high resin content. Good luck ! Jan -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Malewicz Wesley [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sendt: 15. marts 2002 00:32 Til: [log in to unmask] Emne: [TN] Prepreg What are the Pro and Con's of using a single sheet of prepreg vers using two sheets of prepreg? In our fabrication specification we specify that we require that two sheets of prepreg are to be used. For as long as I can remember we have always had this requirement and I would like to have a better understanding as to why we might need to continue. Thanking you in advance for your response. Wes ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:26:19 +0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Olivia Mc Dermott <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Olivia Mc Dermott <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html <html><div style='background-color:'><DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>I would like to take this opportunity to wish all fellow technetters a happy & peaceful St Patricks day for Sunday and have a nice day off Monday (if applicable). <IMG height=12 src="http://graphics.hotmail.com/emwink.gif" width=12><BR><BR><BR>Olivia Mc Dermott <DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://g.msn.com/1HM305301/14'>Click Here</a><br></html> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 05:38:41 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: SV: [TN] Prepreg X-To: [log in to unmask] It's the same old story a fight for love and glory. Ah, it takes me back to Casablanca, or was that BF Montana where my social club was to have been built, but for the fire making that impossible, repreat with lamination press and dungeon. No, not me! Yes, the press plattens must be ASSured flat and parallel without nicks and dings. Use lead strips to determine and check out the heater elements. Why do we go through this so often. Hell, now I'm talking to myself. I know, I should be kinder, and usually am, but my recent bout with HIGHLY QUALIFIED SUPPLIERS makes me crazy = but that keeps me from going insane, right? I guess, I'm really talking to all the super designers out there, again, about supplier qualification. It just has to get done better and I didn't do a good job this time. I especially didn't evaluate my client as being even capable of understanding the process or need. These folks just wanted results in the shortest possible time and the lowest damn cost. I'm done, MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:51:35 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, bbarr <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: bbarr <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: HELP! EMERGENCY! Need an Emerald Part!!! X-To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1CBF6.3AFDF600" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1CBF6.3AFDF600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In all the years I have been in this business, I have not found replacement parts to be a problem with the companies I deal with. Is this an ongoing problem with you, or is this an isolated incident? One suggestion, have you contacted your local Assemblion rep? He or she may be able to canvas their customers and find the part you need. I have found that most of the equipment reps for the machines I have are very willing to help with problems such as these. It's a real "atta boy" for them and figures prominently in future purchases. Bob ======================= Robert Barr Manufacturing Engineering Formation, Inc. Voice: 856-234-5020 x3035 Fax: 856-234-6679 -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of [log in to unmask] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 5:00 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] HELP! EMERGENCY! Need an Emerald Part!!! Hi ya'll! I know this is going to be an extreme longshot, but I'm in desperate need of a Assemblion Emerald 54mm front light camera mirror (part number 5322-380-10285). Ours got cracked somehow (still haven't found out how, probably never will...). Called Assemblion and was given a 1-week lead time...peachy huh? I know that there probably won't be anyone that keeps these as spares (they're $470 each), but if there is, you will be compensated appropriately if we can buy it from you and replace it with the one that we'll get in a week....(I told you this was going to be a longshot!) -Steve "why me?" Gregory- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1CBF6.3AFDF600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4913.1100" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D020114612-15032002><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In all = the years I=20 have been in this business, I have not found replacement parts to be a = problem=20 with the companies I deal with. Is this an ongoing problem with you, or = is this=20 an isolated incident? One suggestion, have you contacted your local = Assemblion=20 rep? He or she may be able to canvas their customers and find the part = you need.=20 I have found that most of the equipment reps for the machines I have are = very=20 willing to help with problems such as these. It's a real "atta boy" for = them and=20 figures prominently in future purchases.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <P><FONT = size=3D2>Bob<BR><BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>Robert=20 Barr<BR>Manufacturing Engineering<BR>Formation, Inc.<BR>Voice: = 856-234-5020=20 x3035<BR>Fax: 856-234-6679 </FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px = solid"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20 [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of = </B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20 Thursday, March 14, 2002 5:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20 [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] HELP! EMERGENCY! Need an = Emerald=20 Part!!!<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT = size=3D2>Hi ya'll!=20 <BR><BR>I know this is going to be an extreme longshot, but I'm in = desperate=20 need of a Assemblion Emerald 54mm front light camera mirror (part = number=20 5322-380-10285). <BR><BR>Ours got cracked somehow (still haven't found = out=20 how, probably never will...). Called Assemblion and was given a 1-week = lead=20 time...peachy huh? <BR><BR>I know that there probably won't be anyone = that=20 keeps these as spares (they're $470 each), but if there is, you will = be=20 compensated appropriately if we can buy it from you and replace it = with the=20 one that we'll get in a week....(I told you this was going to be a = longshot!)=20 <BR><BR>-Steve "why me?" Gregory- = </FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1CBF6.3AFDF600-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:57:08 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Gary McCauley <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Gary McCauley <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Unusual plated 'stuff' on copper surface MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Franklin, I have seen two things cause this. One is a relatively low level of carrier in the plating bath. The other is from years ago when we found fungi growing in our additive. For whatever reason, it was conductive enough to plate with the copper. Instead of rod shaped however, it was spiral like a miniature bed spring embedded in the coppper. Gary McCauley PC Boards, Inc. Chanute, Ks This past January we began seeing unusual 'growths' ((for lack of better descriptive wording)) on the surface of panels after copper II, they are typically observed on one end of the panels, often only a couple panels per tankload exhibit this. These 'growths' look like fine strands of metal of fabric fibers, they are clustered together like someone poor shavings there, and plated over them. If any of you recall pics of those bacteria found in that Mars asteroid from the Antarctic, they appear similar to that (not saying we have bacteria growing in our baths of course). Occasionally we see this out towards the center of panels, I don't believe we have ever seen all panels in a tankload exhibit this either. This condition is observed on one or two loads per day (out of about 20 - 30), some days not at all. We started seeing this in one bath (of three in house) until recently it appeared in another bath simultaneously. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated as our process engineers, lab techs, and suppliers are baffled. Thanks, Franklin D Asbell Network Circuits, Inc. Irving, Texas 75061 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:37:10 -0500 Reply-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Lou Hart <[log in to unmask]> Organization: Compunetix, Inc. Subject: Re: Coating thickness X-To: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> JF, Technetters, we're in the process of setting up a new machine (selected with the help of TechNet input). First step is to develop a mathematical model for coating thickness as a function of machine parameters. After than we plan on using microscope slides, as suggested by one of the operators, for process control monitoring. The thickness gage will be a micrometer. We're going to develop a relationship between wet and dry film thickness, but the wet film gage we have only resolves to 25 microns. In the development of the model, we're also looking to find machine settings that will minimize thickness variation across the board. Contact me on- or off-line in a couple of weeks if you want to know how we're coming along. May have results early next week. Regarding the question of whether the aluminum plates were coated at the same time as your material, I would ask, if your company has doubts that the samples are authentic, why are you doing business with that supplier? Lou Hart -----Original Message----- From: Bissonnette, Jean-Francois [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 5:03 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Coating thickness We thought of that and it seems one very logical thing to do. The only problem is that the boards are coated at our supplier's plant. And you know how QA persons are... how can we prove that the aluminum part was coated at the same time then the batch etc... We have to monitor our supplier and got solid evidences. Thank you all! If any other idea has not been through yet don't hesitate... I'm all ears... or all EYES! JF --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:28:03 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Impedance calculator MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC25.3C1FAE50" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC25.3C1FAE50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Does any one know a good tool to model impedance calculations. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC25.3C1FAE50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=603202713-15032002>Does any one know a good tool to model impedance calculations.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=603202713-15032002> </SPAN></FONT></P></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC25.3C1FAE50-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:01:22 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Luis Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Luis Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Glue Dot Size (missing parts) X-To: Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi Alejandro is there any trace of adhesive (epoxy) left on the board? What kind of epoxy you have in your process? Is there one specific part number? I had experience with specific parts having some type of film, and cause adhesion problems. Luis A Gallegos Automation Senior Technician SANMINA-SCI Pleasant Prairie WI 262 947-7700 e-mail: [log in to unmask] > -----Original Message----- > From: Becerra Alejandro [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:02 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Glue Dot Size (missing parts) > > > We are having issues with 0603 components attached with glue (Glue printed > with Pump printing) > that are being fallen in the wave soldering equipment. > The average dot size that we are having in these components is 0.025" and > the average torque value is 1 N-cm. > What could be possible causes for this issue? > > Regards, > > Alejandro Becerra > Thomson multimedia Inc > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Krug, Dick [ <mailto:[log in to unmask]>] > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 9:54 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Glue Dot Size > > > We dispense glue using a positive displacement pump. > Dot diameter for 0603's is nominally 20 mils. > Dot diameter for 0805's is nominally 28 mils. > Dick Krug > Sypris Electronics > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vinit Verma [ <mailto:[log in to unmask]>] > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:19 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Glue Dot Size > > > Hi All, > > Has anyone ever worked with the Pump Printing Stencil for printing glue on > > pre-inserted PCBs?? This stencil is developed by DEK but I'm not too sure > of > how it works? Any experiences? > > Also would be too kind if somebody could tell me the glue size requirement > > for 0603 and 0805 components? > > Thanks in advance > > Regards > Vinit Verma > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ----- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET > Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm> for > additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ----- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm> for > additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:02:43 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Impedance calculator MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_172.51d8882.29c35903_boundary" --part1_172.51d8882.29c35903_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/15/02 7:45:20 AM Central Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: > Does any one know a good tool to model impedance calculations. > Hi Dan! Here's a few: http://www.emclab.umr.edu/pcbtlc/ http://www.logiccell.com/~jean/LVDS/ http://www.icd.com.au/board.html http://pr.erau.edu/~newmana/imped.html http://www.ifwtech.com/g3sek/netcalc/netcalc.htm http://www.ideaconsulting.com/strip.htm -Steve Gregory- --part1_172.51d8882.29c35903_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 3/15/02 7:45:20 AM Central Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Does any one know a good tool to model impedance calculations. <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>Hi Dan! <BR> <BR>Here's a few: <BR> <BR>http://www.emclab.umr.edu/pcbtlc/ <BR>http://www.logiccell.com/~jean/LVDS/ <BR>http://www.icd.com.au/board.html <BR>http://pr.erau.edu/~newmana/imped.html <BR>http://www.ifwtech.com/g3sek/netcalc/netcalc.htm <BR>http://www.ideaconsulting.com/strip.htm <BR> <BR>-Steve Gregory-</FONT></HTML> --part1_172.51d8882.29c35903_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:09:28 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Machine part availability... I would let the supplier know that you were either lied to at time of purchase and/or their equipment is so poor they can not keep enough replacement parts on hand. Once again, customer service/support in our industry sucks! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:07:04 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Impedance calculator X-To: "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC2A.AF995980" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC2A.AF995980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Try Polar Instruments. ( www.polarinstruments.com <http://www.polarinstruments.com> ) Works pretty well in determining impedance. Best used in conjunction with a FAE from the fab house you plan to use. Actual numbers from the fab house are usually off (+/-) a couple of ohms, but still a good tool to get the baseline stackup cottect. -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:28 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Impedance calculator Does any one know a good tool to model impedance calculations. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC2A.AF995980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=378581014-15032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Try Polar Instruments. (<A href="http://www.polarinstruments.com">www.polarinstruments.com</A>)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=378581014-15032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Works pretty well in determining impedance. Best used in conjunction with a FAE from the fab house you plan to use. Actual numbers from the fab house are usually off (+/-) a couple of ohms, but still a good tool to get the baseline stackup cottect.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 15, 2002 8:28 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Impedance calculator<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=603202713-15032002>Does any one know a good tool to model impedance calculations.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=603202713-15032002></SPAN></FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC2A.AF995980-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:30:05 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Jan Thuesen <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Jan Thuesen <[log in to unmask]> Subject: SV: [TN] Unusual plated 'stuff' on copper surface MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Franklin, we have seen something like this. For some time we were believing it was a problem in the copperplating and increased filtration amo. Eventually we found out that it had origin in sudden precipitation of palladium-colloids in our direct plating process. These particles were square or rectangular with rounded edges. Changes in cleaning procedures and also filtration helped on this one. With best regards -- Jan Thuesen, Process Engineer Chemitalic A/S Egebjergvej 128 DK-8700 Horsens 76 28 70 00 Fax: 76 28 70 95 http://www.chemitalic.dk/ -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Gary McCauley [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sendt: 15. marts 2002 13:57 Til: [log in to unmask] Emne: Re: [TN] Unusual plated 'stuff' on copper surface Franklin, I have seen two things cause this. One is a relatively low level of carrier in the plating bath. The other is from years ago when we found fungi growing in our additive. For whatever reason, it was conductive enough to plate with the copper. Instead of rod shaped however, it was spiral like a miniature bed spring embedded in the coppper. Gary McCauley PC Boards, Inc. Chanute, Ks This past January we began seeing unusual 'growths' ((for lack of better descriptive wording)) on the surface of panels after copper II, they are typically observed on one end of the panels, often only a couple panels per tankload exhibit this. These 'growths' look like fine strands of metal of fabric fibers, they are clustered together like someone poor shavings there, and plated over them. If any of you recall pics of those bacteria found in that Mars asteroid from the Antarctic, they appear similar to that (not saying we have bacteria growing in our baths of course). Occasionally we see this out towards the center of panels, I don't believe we have ever seen all panels in a tankload exhibit this either. This condition is observed on one or two loads per day (out of about 20 - 30), some days not at all. We started seeing this in one bath (of three in house) until recently it appeared in another bath simultaneously. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated as our process engineers, lab techs, and suppliers are baffled. Thanks, Franklin D Asbell Network Circuits, Inc. Irving, Texas 75061 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:01:20 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Impedance calculator X-To: "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC32.441CBE10" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC32.441CBE10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If you want calculators for impedance of traces on PC boards, check out http://www.ultracad.com. Otherwise, what is it that you want? Carl Van Wormer Cipher Systems 1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010 Beaverton, OR 97006 Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550 -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:28 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Impedance calculator Does any one know a good tool to model impedance calculations. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC32.441CBE10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <meta name=3DProgId content=3DWord.Document> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 9"> <meta name=3DOriginator content=3D"Microsoft Word 9"> <link rel=3DFile-List href=3D"cid:[log in to unmask]"> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind> <w:EnvelopeVis/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:553679495 -2147483648 8 0 66047 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} p.MsoAutoSig, li.MsoAutoSig, div.MsoAutoSig {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} p {margin-right:0in; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.EmailStyle16 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family:Arial; mso-hansi-font-family:Arial; mso-bidi-font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple = style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 = color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I= f you want calculators for impedance of traces on PC boards, check out = http://www.ultracad.com.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 = color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><= ![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 = color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>O= therwise, what is it that you want?<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 = color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><= ![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>= <p class=3DMsoAutoSig><!--[if supportFields]><span = class=3DEmailStyle16><font=20 size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span = style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20 style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s "E-mail=20 Signature" <span = style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span><![end= if]--><font color=3Dnavy><span = style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><= /p> <p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Carl Van = Wormer</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span = style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><= /p> <p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Cipher Systems</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span = style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><= /p> <p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>1815 NW 169th Place, Suite = 5010</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span = style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><= /p> <p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Beaverton, OR<span = style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>97006</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span = style=3D'color:navy; mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Phone (503)-617-7447<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Fax = (503)-617-6550</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span = style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><= /p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span = class=3DEmailStyle16><font=20 size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span = style=3D'mso-element:field-end'></span></span></font></span><![endif]-->= <span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>= <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, March 15, = 2002 5:28 AM<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> [log in to unmask]<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [TN] Impedance = calculator</span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Does any one know a good tool to model impedance = calculations.</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span = style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>= </p> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack = face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></= font><font color=3Dblack><span = style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>= </p> </div> </body> </html> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC32.441CBE10-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:04:03 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Rick <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Rick <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Impedance calculator X-To: "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Try Polar's CITS25 Differential Controlled Impedance Calculator. Rick Babyak Process Engineer Proto Circuit Inc. 7 Ascot Parkway Cuyahoga Falls, OH 44223 330-572-3400 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:08:01 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Maddox, Allen T" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Maddox, Allen T" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Impedance calculator X-To: "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'm having a tough time getting into it this morning, but, maybe you'll have better luck. Give this a try: http://www.hadco.com/impedanc.htm <http://www.hadco.com/impedanc.htm> Allen Maddox Senior PCB Designer GAI-Tronics PO Box 1060 Reading, PA 19607-1060 Voice: 610-796-5854 FAX: 610-777-1870 www.gai-tronics.com [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:28 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Impedance calculator Does any one know a good tool to model impedance calculations. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:59:02 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Impedance calculator X-To: "Maddox, Allen T" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hadco was bought by Sanmina - http://www.sanmina.com/pro_serv/prod_config/java/imped_calc.html Try this link :) Bill Brooks PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D. TITAN SYSTEMS CORPORATION DATRON WORLD COMMUNICATIONS DIVISION 3030 Enterprise Court Vista, CA 92083 Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 mailto:[log in to unmask] IPC Designers Council, San Diego Chapter <http://www.ipc.org/SanDiego/> <http://home.fda.net/bbrooks/pca/pca.htm http://dc.ipc.org/ -----Original Message----- From: Maddox, Allen T [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:08 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Impedance calculator I'm having a tough time getting into it this morning, but, maybe you'll have better luck. Give this a try: http://www.hadco.com/impedanc.htm <http://www.hadco.com/impedanc.htm> Allen Maddox Senior PCB Designer GAI-Tronics PO Box 1060 Reading, PA 19607-1060 Voice: 610-796-5854 FAX: 610-777-1870 www.gai-tronics.com [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:28 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Impedance calculator Does any one know a good tool to model impedance calculations. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:30:38 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, tech <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: tech <[log in to unmask]> Subject: IPC-602A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone tell me what IPC-602A refers to. Has it been superceeded and what would Clas 3 be under this standard. I think it's to do with cross sections. Thanks in advance Paul Greene --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:39:15 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Update...HELP! Need an Emerald Part! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_90.22c434f2.29c399d3_boundary" --part1_90.22c434f2.29c399d3_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to give a quick update on my Emerald camera mirror situation... Assembleon has come through with shining colors! I received a phone call this morning that a mirror had been located and was in Alpharetta, and could be on the next airplane flying into Tulsa, or Fed-ex'd overnight for a Saturday delivery, which ever I preferred... Now THAT'S the kind of customer service that I like!! -Steve Gregory- --part1_90.22c434f2.29c399d3_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>I would like to give a quick update on my Emerald camera mirror situation... <BR> <BR>Assembleon has come through with shining colors! I received a phone call this morning that a mirror had been located and was in Alpharetta, and could be on the next airplane flying into Tulsa, or Fed-ex'd overnight for a Saturday delivery, which ever I preferred... <BR> <BR>Now THAT'S the kind of customer service that I like!! <BR> <BR>-Steve Gregory-</FONT></HTML> --part1_90.22c434f2.29c399d3_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:55:44 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Torres, Roberto" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Torres, Roberto" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Impedance calculator X-To: "Maddox, Allen T" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Allen; I believe that Hadco is no more, they are part of Sammina now I think. I have tried Sammina's web page could not find the old Hadco links. Regards Bob Torres -----Original Message----- From: Maddox, Allen T [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:08 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Impedance calculator I'm having a tough time getting into it this morning, but, maybe you'll have better luck. Give this a try: http://www.hadco.com/impedanc.htm <http://www.hadco.com/impedanc.htm> Allen Maddox Senior PCB Designer GAI-Tronics PO Box 1060 Reading, PA 19607-1060 Voice: 610-796-5854 FAX: 610-777-1870 www.gai-tronics.com [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:28 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Impedance calculator Does any one know a good tool to model impedance calculations. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:16:37 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, James TerVeen <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: James TerVeen <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Update...HELP! Need an Emerald Part! X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii How do you like that. In the morning you are ripping them a new one and in the afternoon they are your best buddy. Maybe they saw your posting this morning and you mentioned them by name and they new they need to jump through a few hoops and there you are the best budy again. They never change you just happen to get to the right person that could help you at that moment. Just venting [log in to unmask] COM To: [log in to unmask] Sent by: cc: TechNet Subject: Re: [TN] Update...HELP! Need an <[log in to unmask] Emerald Part! RG> 03/15/02 01:39 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to SteveZeva I would like to give a quick update on my Emerald camera mirror situation... Assembleon has come through with shining colors! I received a phone call this morning that a mirror had been located and was in Alpharetta, and could be on the next airplane flying into Tulsa, or Fed-ex'd overnight for a Saturday delivery, which ever I preferred... Now THAT'S the kind of customer service that I like!! -Steve Gregory- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:15:50 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: ANOTHER UPDATE CONCERNING MOONMAN'S BGA'S All the little DSP BGA's soldered fine. 4 of 5 boards even work with the world's worst design ever. The story is not over, but it's off to a good start. My thanks to Sanmina/Hadco tech fab center East and the fine people there. Also, my hat's off to Sanmina's tech assembly center in Austin. Both busted ass and came through, against all odds. Thank you too Jason Gregory. I'm outa here finally and going gambling and gamboling in Nevada. Then it's off to do automotive stuff. MoonFreeMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:28:43 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, tech <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: tech <[log in to unmask]> Subject: IPC-602A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, What I'm looking for is IPC- 60 2A. Its apparently NOT a 6012 typo. Sorry for the error Regards Paul Greene --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:43:27 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ANOTHER UPDATE CONCERNING MOONMAN'S BGA'S I'm sorry. I forgot to thank all the little people out there on technet land for this achievement. Without you, it would have gotten done anyway but would not have been as much fun. Isn't life great as I say this while graciously and ever so humbly accept your undying gratitude and all that crap? Also, thank you all for putting up with my way too many postings. I must say it was fun but WHERE'S MY SILVER SPOON? EeeeeeeHaaaw --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:00:21 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Machine part availability... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Then again, what you might be seeing is a reflection of JIT or LEAN manufacturing. In both those systems, inventory is a BAD BAD thing and must be eliminated. If the accountants are running the show, this may be why the supplier doesn't have parts on hand. Of course, they could just suck at customer service...... Doug Pauls --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:07:58 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Help! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Need a board shop that is capable of building on Rogers RT 5870 .031 teflon with 1 oz cu. on one side and .125 aluminum on the other. Please call me. Thanks, Rick Howieson Delta Group Electronics, Inc. 505.883.7674 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:41:52 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ANOTHER UPDATE CONCERNING MOONMAN'S BGA'S X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0FDAF10508813454EFC460F7" --------------0FDAF10508813454EFC460F7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Earl. You might find this short report interesting: > DOC=DOT/FAA/AR-01/41 DDATE=01-AUG-2001 DD=CTD > > Title: REVIEW OF PENDING GUIDANCE AND INDUSTRY > FINDINGS ON COMMERCIAL OFF-THE-SHELF (COTS) ELECTRONICS IN AIRBORNE SYSTEMSAbstract: March 11, > 2002 THE INTENT OF THIS REPORT IS TO PROVIDE FINDINGS ABOUT THE STATE OF THE INDUSTRY RELATIVE > TO THE DESIGN OBJECTIVES IDENTIFIED IN GUIDANCE DOCUMENT DO-254 WITH FOCUS ON THE IMPLICATIONS > FOR THE USE OF COMMERCIAL OFF-THE-SHELF (COTS) ELECTRONIC HARDWARE COMPONENTS IN SAFETY > CRITICAL AIRBORNE SYSTEMS. THE USE OF COMPLEX ELECTRONIC HARDWARE COMPONENTS IN AIRBORNE > SYSTEMS POSES A CHALLENGE TO THE MEETING OF SAFETY REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE, FOR COMPLEX > COMPONENTS, COMPLETE VERIFICATION IS, AT BEST, VERY DIFFICULT AND, AT WORST, NOT ACHIEVABLE. IN > ORDER TO ADDRESS THE POTENTIAL LACK OF COMPLETE VERIFICATION, IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT THE HARDWARE > DESIGN LIFE CYCLE PROCESSES SHOULD INCLUDE DESIGN ASSURANCES TO MITIGATE THE POSSIBILITY THAT > DESIGN ERRORS MAY BE INTRODUCED INTO THE HARDWARE COMPONENT AND CAUSE ANOMALOUS BEHAVIOR. NEW > TECHNOLOGIES, BEING DEVELOPED IN THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR, COULD PROVIDE ENHANCED SAFETY IN > AIRBORNE SYSTEMS IF THE TECHNOLOGIES COULD BE INCORPORATED AT AN AFFORDABLE COST. HOWEVER, THE > USE OF COTS COMPONENTS IN AIRBORNE SYSTEMS RAISES A NUMBER > OF ISSUES WITH RESPECT TO MEETING AIRBORNE SYSTEM SAFETY REQUIREMENTS AND DO-254 OBJECTIVES. > COMMERCIAL MARKET TRENDS ARE RAPIDLY DIVERGING FROM THE NEEDS OF SAFETY CRITICALAIRBORNE SYSTEMS. > ISSUES WITH RESPECT TO COTS USAGE MAY BECOME BARRIERS IN CERTAIN CASES, IF NECESSARY ASSURANCES > CANNOT BE ACHIEVED IN A COST EFFECTIVE MANNER. THE ASSURANCES REQUIRED > FOR HIGH CRITICALITY APPLICATIONS SUCH AS LEVELS A AND B WILL PROBABLY NOT BE ATTAINABLE FOR COTS > COMPONENTS WITHOUT MITIGATION BY OTHER MEANS. > > David A. Douthit > Manager > LoCan LLC Earl Moon wrote: > All the little DSP BGA's soldered fine. 4 of 5 boards even work with the > world's worst design ever. > > The story is not over, but it's off to a good start. My thanks to > Sanmina/Hadco tech fab center East and the fine people there. Also, my hat's > off to Sanmina's tech assembly center in Austin. Both busted ass and came > through, against all odds. Thank you too Jason Gregory. > > I'm outa here finally and going gambling and gamboling in Nevada. Then it's > off to do automotive stuff. > > MoonFreeMan > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------0FDAF10508813454EFC460F7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Earl. <p>You might find this short report interesting: <br> <blockquote TYPE=CITE><font size=-1>DOC=DOT/FAA/AR-01/41 DDATE=01-AUG-2001 DD=CTD</font> <p><font size=-1>Title: REVIEW OF PENDING GUIDANCE AND INDUSTRY</font> <br><font size=-1>FINDINGS ON COMMERCIAL OFF-THE-SHELF (COTS) ELECTRONICS IN AIRBORNE SYSTEMS</font><font size=-1>Abstract: March 11, 2002</font> <font size=-1>THE INTENT OF THIS REPORT IS TO PROVIDE FINDINGS ABOUT THE STATE OF THE INDUSTRY RELATIVE TO THE DESIGN OBJECTIVES IDENTIFIED IN GUIDANCE DOCUMENT DO-254 WITH FOCUS ON THE IMPLICATIONS FOR THE USE OF COMMERCIAL OFF-THE-SHELF (COTS) ELECTRONIC HARDWARE COMPONENTS IN SAFETY CRITICAL AIRBORNE SYSTEMS. THE USE OF COMPLEX ELECTRONIC HARDWARE COMPONENTS IN AIRBORNE SYSTEMS POSES A CHALLENGE TO THE MEETING OF SAFETY REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE, FOR COMPLEX</font> <br><font size=-1>COMPONENTS, COMPLETE VERIFICATION IS, AT BEST, VERY DIFFICULT AND, AT WORST, NOT ACHIEVABLE. IN ORDER TO ADDRESS THE POTENTIAL LACK OF COMPLETE VERIFICATION, IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT THE HARDWARE DESIGN LIFE CYCLE PROCESSES SHOULD INCLUDE DESIGN ASSURANCES TO MITIGATE THE POSSIBILITY THAT DESIGN ERRORS MAY BE INTRODUCED INTO THE HARDWARE COMPONENT AND CAUSE ANOMALOUS BEHAVIOR. NEW TECHNOLOGIES, BEING DEVELOPED IN THE COMMERCIAL SECTOR, COULD PROVIDE ENHANCED SAFETY IN AIRBORNE SYSTEMS IF THE TECHNOLOGIES COULD BE INCORPORATED AT AN AFFORDABLE COST. HOWEVER, THE USE OF COTS COMPONENTS IN AIRBORNE SYSTEMS RAISES A NUMBER</font> <br><font size=-1>OF ISSUES WITH RESPECT TO MEETING AIRBORNE SYSTEM SAFETY REQUIREMENTS AND DO-254 OBJECTIVES. COMMERCIAL MARKET TRENDS ARE RAPIDLY DIVERGING FROM THE NEEDS OF SAFETY CRITICAL</font><font size=-1>AIRBORNE SYSTEMS. ISSUES WITH RESPECT TO COTS USAGE MAY BECOME BARRIERS IN CERTAIN CASES, IF NECESSARY ASSURANCES CANNOT BE ACHIEVED IN A COST EFFECTIVE MANNER. THE ASSURANCES REQUIRED</font> <br><font size=-1>FOR HIGH CRITICALITY APPLICATIONS SUCH AS LEVELS A AND B WILL PROBABLY NOT BE ATTAINABLE FOR COTS COMPONENTS WITHOUT MITIGATION BY OTHER MEANS.</font><font size=-1></font> <p>David A. Douthit <br>Manager <br>LoCan LLC</blockquote> <br> <p>Earl Moon wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>All the little DSP BGA's soldered fine. 4 of 5 boards even work with the <br>world's worst design ever. <p>The story is not over, but it's off to a good start. My thanks to <br>Sanmina/Hadco tech fab center East and the fine people there. Also, my hat's <br>off to Sanmina's tech assembly center in Austin. Both busted ass and came <br>through, against all odds. Thank you too Jason Gregory. <p>I'm outa here finally and going gambling and gamboling in Nevada. Then it's <br>off to do automotive stuff. <p>MoonFreeMan <p>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <br>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d <br>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in <br>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet <br>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL <br>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest <br>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives <br>Please visit IPC web site <a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a> for additional <br>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 <br>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</blockquote> </html> --------------0FDAF10508813454EFC460F7-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:32:47 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Machine part availability... X-To: [log in to unmask] Damn Doug, That's sage thinking. How'd you come up with that. I sure as hell couldn't. Just when I thought lean was a good thing, you ring my bell. Bean counters forever and Sanmina is closing their Austin facility just because there's no business out there. Hail Greenspan. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:53:51 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Jim If you can use the boards with more warpage, then you should, by all means increase the spec. There's no benefit to making your supplier throw boards that are functional. The opposite is also true. If you need tighter requirements, then specify them also. I've had a couple of instances where I ran into some parts that needed an absolute maximum warpage value rather than a %. If the warpage exceed a certain amount it interfered with the cameras on the pick and place equipment. There were multiple parts impacted by this and each had different dimensions, so the warp as a % was variable on each part. Some parts ended up with warp specs over 1% while others were less than 0.5%. The parts we had the biggest problem with were multi-image arrays with long dimensions and unbalanced, mixed dielectrics. We ended up working with the customer to re-panelize these so they could accept a higher warp %. I agree with the "consensus" that warpage should be evaluated in the panel. One thing I'm curious is how your fabricator determined that the single images met the spec. How did they measure it and how did they come up with a different % value for the image vs the panel? Most of the warped boards I've seen have a pretty consistent curvature to them and expressed as a %, the value stays consistent. > ---------- > From: Marsico, James[SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;Marsico, James > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 7:01 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Board Bow and Twist > > What if the panels are bowed beyond the .75% limit, the boards are not, I > can build them and I can use them? I know I'm answering my own question, > I > should use them, right? Well, what's the purpose of the .75% requirement? > I would think that the requirement should be whatever is agreed upon > between > customer and supplier. If I can live with 2%, why not (within reason). > Jim Marsico > Senior Engineer > Production Engineering > EDO Electronics Systems Group > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > 631-595-5879 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Franklin D Asbell [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:25 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Board Bow and Twist > > James, > > An afterthought, the bow and twist requirement is there to provide > ease of > board population as well as end use fit. If the board is warped > prior to > assembly, this indeed would affect population thus potentially > making the > boards unsuitable for end use...just something to think about, or > pass along > to your supplier. > > Franklin > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:48 AM > Subject: [TN] Board Bow and Twist > > > > I think this is a no-brainer, but here goes... We were > delivered > boards > in > > panel form from one of our suppliers. At Incoming Inspection, > the > panel > was > > rejected for excessive bow (>75% for SMT) and returned the > supplier. The > > supplier called me and said that even though the panel exceeded > the bow > > requirement, the individual boards were acceptable. When I > quoted > the bow > > and twist requirement from IPC-6012, "Panels which contain > multiple > printed > > boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated > shall > be > > assessed in panel form." , he said yes, you measure the > individual > boards > in > > the panel. I need clarification. > > Thanks, > > Jim Marsico > > Senior Engineer > > Production Engineering > > EDO Electronics Systems Group > > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > 631-595-5879 > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using > LISTSERV > 1.8d > > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with > following > text in > > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > > E-mail Archives > > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for > additional > > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ----- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV > 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following > text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for > additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ----- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:52:17 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ANOTHER UPDATE CONCERNING MOONMAN'S BGA'S X-To: [log in to unmask] Thanks Dave, This whole COTS thing is in big trouble. That's simply evidenced by my struggle with really otf the shelf parts. How the hell can mil/aero folks even think of making it work? Don't want to be in the next war, or whatever it is called. I know JK knows this as well, Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:32:46 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Solid Stainless ~vs~ Copper Core Stainless panel plating racks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1CC2E.46A365C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1CC2E.46A365C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Need some info, currently we use solid stainless steel plating racks, = been using them since I've been with the company. Recently it was = suggested that we need to switch to copper core plating racks. These are = the same configuration as our current racks, but with a core of solid = copper.=20 At a plating shop I was with years ago my experience with copper = rack/contacts was not a smooth one, the extraordinary way copper = corroded made for much additional "pain in the butt" situations. The racks, from what I understand will be completely encased in = stainless, except where they contact the panel, and the plating bus bar, = they will also be enclosed in the pvc coating (other some other exotic = plastic protective covering) as additional protection. Our current racks = also have this coating, as stated, the difference being one has a copper = core. Has anyone made this transition in the past? Recently? And what were = your experiences or results, both good and bad...thanks Franklin ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1CC2E.46A365C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Need some info, currently we use solid = stainless=20 steel plating racks, been using them since I've been with the company. = Recently=20 it was suggested that we need to switch to copper core plating racks. = These are=20 the same configuration as our current racks, but with a core of solid = copper.=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>At a plating shop I was with years ago = my=20 experience with copper rack/contacts was not a smooth one, the = extraordinary way=20 copper corroded made for much additional "pain in the butt"=20 situations.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The racks, from what I understand will = be=20 completely encased in stainless, except where they contact the panel, = and the=20 plating bus bar, they will also be enclosed in the pvc coating (other = some other=20 exotic plastic protective covering) as additional protection. Our = current racks=20 also have this coating, as stated, the difference being one has a copper = core.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Has anyone made this transition in the = past?=20 Recently? And what were your experiences or results, both good and=20 bad...thanks</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Franklin</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1CC2E.46A365C0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:06:56 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Earl A. Pruitt" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Earl A. Pruitt" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Contaminated solder I am an electronics tech servicing 10+ year old amateur radio gear. The trouble I am having is with a single sided through-hole board. Areas of the board are covered with wax. Over time the boards malfunction as the wax works its way into the solder. Hand resoldering is a nightmare as the wax continues to wick towards the connection. Heating the board and draining the wax away does not help as some wax residue is left. Also, components become damaged from the air gun. The boards are also covered in contact cement that has become corrosive and conductive. Currently we are using Methaline Chloride to soften the glue and then pick it away. Questions are as follows: 1) How can the wax be completely removed? 2) How can the glue be removed without using such a toxic substance as paint stripper? 3) Is there an economical device that can be purchased to reflow these old boards without hand resoldering hundreds of cold/contaminated connections? Any help would be greatly appreciated! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:25:30 +1100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, peter tremewen <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: peter tremewen <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contaminated solder X-To: "Earl A. Pruitt" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Kerosene will remove the wax, It will desolve it, I have been cleaning remote control units of wax in this way for some time. We then flush this off with IPA. Seems to work well. However be very careful that it wont damage any components on your PBAs befrore you get too carried away, It doesnt seem to affect chip componenst such as resistor and caps, Or for that matter transistors in SOT 23 paks. I have no idea how it might affect anything else though. Are you sure it's the wax causing trouble?? I've not had quite as much experiance (about five years on and off) but I've not seen this happen on any of the remote boards I've fixed. Indeed the solderwave machine at work uses a wax covering to inhibit dross and we have had no problems with that contaminating the solder. My sugesting is that the contact cement may be wholly to blame. I have been soldering through wax for some time now and not had any recuring joint troubles. Driver transistors are the most comman form of falure in the Remote control cars I service, and they face a variety of hostile contaminants. Unfuatunatly the only way I can think of to reliably resolder these conection would be to use a solder wave machine, NOT a cheap option really though. ----- Original Message ----- From: Earl A. Pruitt <[log in to unmask]> > I am an electronics tech servicing 10+ year old amateur radio gear. The > trouble I am having is with a single sided through-hole board. Areas of > the board are covered with wax. Over time the boards malfunction as the > wax works its way into the solder. Hand resoldering is a nightmare as the > wax continues to wick towards the connection. Heating the board and > draining the wax away does not help as some wax residue is left. Also, > components become damaged from the air gun. The boards are also covered > in contact cement that has become corrosive and conductive. Currently we > are using Methaline Chloride to soften the glue and then pick it away. > Questions are as follows: 1) How can the wax be completely removed? 2) How > can the glue be removed without using such a toxic substance as paint > stripper? 3) Is there an economical device that can be purchased to reflow > these old boards without hand resoldering hundreds of cold/contaminated > connections? Any help would be greatly appreciated --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:39:45 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Rob Legg <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Rob Legg <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contaminated solder X-To: "Earl A. Pruitt" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paraffin-based wax is soluble in petrol, lighter fluid and the like. It could dissolve a number of other types of necessary sealants used in very old (>40years) circuits, though, so you have to use your judgment on application method. If it's some other kind of wax, you'll need to identify it. I wouldn't expect paraffin to affect your hardware as seriously as you describe. Perhaps there's another contaminant, absorbed by the materials you are attempting to remove. RL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl A. Pruitt" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 10:06 PM Subject: [TN] Contaminated solder > I am an electronics tech servicing 10+ year old amateur radio gear. The > trouble I am having is with a single sided through-hole board. Areas of > the board are covered with wax. Over time the boards malfunction as the > wax works its way into the solder. Hand resoldering is a nightmare as the > wax continues to wick towards the connection. Heating the board and > draining the wax away does not help as some wax residue is left. Also, > components become damaged from the air gun. The boards are also covered > in contact cement that has become corrosive and conductive. Currently we > are using Methaline Chloride to soften the glue and then pick it away. > Questions are as follows: 1) How can the wax be completely removed? 2) How > can the glue be removed without using such a toxic substance as paint > stripper? 3) Is there an economical device that can be purchased to reflow > these old boards without hand resoldering hundreds of cold/contaminated > connections? Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:20:23 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Impedance calculator MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC3D.4F4F4130" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC3D.4F4F4130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Try www.polarinstruments.com <http://www.polarinstruments.com> . There is also some good information and formulae at www.ultracad.com/articles.htm <http://www.ultracad.com/articles.htm> Geoff Layhe -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 15 March 2002 13:28 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Impedance calculator Does any one know a good tool to model impedance calculations. Private & Confidential: This e-mail message is confidential and is intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. If the message is received by anyone other than the addressee please return the message to the sender by replying to it and then delete the message from your computer. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC3D.4F4F4130 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=710390916-15032002>Try <A href="http://www.polarinstruments.com">www.polarinstruments.com</A>. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=710390916-15032002>There is also some good information and formulae at <A href="http://www.ultracad.com/articles.htm">www.ultracad.com/articles.htm</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=710390916-15032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=710390916-15032002>Geoff Layhe</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 15 March 2002 13:28<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Impedance calculator<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=603202713-15032002>Does any one know a good tool to model impedance calculations.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=603202713-15032002></SPAN></FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> <BR> <BR> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Private & Confidential:</FONT></B></P> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">This e-mail message is confidential and is intended solely for the person or</FONT></B></P> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">organisation to whom it is addressed. If the message is received by anyone</FONT></B></P> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">other than the addressee please return the message to the sender by replying</FONT></B></P> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">to it and then delete the message from your computer.</FONT></B></P> <BR> <BR> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CC3D.4F4F4130-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:13:49 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Prepreg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Agree with everything you say ....except there are now high resin content (48%)7628 pre-pregs which means that you can use it facing copper layers. 2116 is definitely the best pre-preg, the glass weave is nice and even and the resin content is about 55%. It's better for inner layer registration than 2125. Geoff Layhe www.lamar-uk.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 15 March 2002 10:40 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Prepreg Again, but I love this stuff, you don't need two ply constructions except when you need them. You get very well balanced structures, from a resin to glass ratio point of view, with single ply preg and core material except when using 7628 types/styles. You never use this facing copper as it only has about 43% resin content and you may very well find starvation using it. I feel like I've written this before. Anyway, 2113 and 2116 glass styles offer the best of both laminate integrity (plenty of resin) and dimensional stability (plenty of glass). No problem using two plies of these types in whatever requirement. Two plies of 106 or 1080 isn't appropriate, if avoidable, because it's two resin rich and makes everything slip and slide in the press and that's a mess. As for the shorting issues, that's been resolved even by the military/aerospace folks for years. How many, I can't even remember. If you've seen this condition, as voiding and shorting etc., get a photo for us all to see. If proof exists, it has to be a billion to one shot and certainly would point to possible process control problems of an other than preg issue. MoonMan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Private & Confidential: This e-mail message is confidential and is intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. If the message is received by anyone other than the addressee please return the message to the sender by replying to it and then delete the message from your computer. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:25:29 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Prepreg X-To: [log in to unmask] Geoff, Very glad about the concurrence. You know your stuff. The 7628 subject still is a sore point with me though. Even at a higher resin content, it just doesn't come close to our favorite 2116 and 2113. The weave is just too tight to support really good impregnation so reliance must be made too much on the silane treatment for "wetting" (x linking). I also really like to get over the 50% resin to glass ratio hump. That higher resin content 2116 sounds great. I'll check into it next time I need to work with designers and MLB's. Now, I'm just going to enjoy some crude car stuff. Thanks again for the info, Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:30:02 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contaminated solder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Earl, 1) There is no way that a good paraffin wax "works it way" into a solid solder joint. 2) Are you sure that liquid high boiling hydrocarbons from a cheap wax (not properly separated in the first place in the refinery) have left the wax and slithered their way into mechanical switches and other moving parts on the circuit boards instead? 3) If you really are finding hydrocarbons in cracked joints, then they cracked first and then the migration happened. 4) You will note I used a lot of adjectives - good chemist "weasel words". All bets are off if you have some weird, corrosive "goo". 5) Peter's suggestion and component warning were correct. I would add the usual safety cautions regarding proper ventilation and static spark generation. 6) I think you mean methylene chloride (CH2Cl2). You use that and are worried about paint thinner? Methylene chloride is a suspected carcinogen and has a low boiling point (104F, 40C if I did my math correctly for those of us who are not in the hegemony of the US, Liberia and Yemen who have not gone metric :) ). Of course "paint thinner" is pretty generic and it can range from a mixture of hydrocarbons to mixtures that contain acetates and toluene to those that contain some rather nasty ketones that I don't want going up my nostrils (and into my liver)! 7) It sure sounds like the contact cement is more likely your villain, especially since you can see its effects. 8) Anybody out there got a good suggestion for Earl with regards to softening/dissolving (possible?) the contact cement? 9) I would worry about the effect of methylene chloride on some of the plastics used for components. 10) You can buy some neat little batch reflow ovens from Tomken Industries. http://www.tomkenindustries.com/reflow.htm They market a Techno HA-02 and 06. I am sure there are others. Hope this helps. regards, Bev Christian Research in Motion -----Original Message----- From: Earl A. Pruitt [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: March 15, 2002 10:07 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Contaminated solder I am an electronics tech servicing 10+ year old amateur radio gear. The trouble I am having is with a single sided through-hole board. Areas of the board are covered with wax. Over time the boards malfunction as the wax works its way into the solder. Hand resoldering is a nightmare as the wax continues to wick towards the connection. Heating the board and draining the wax away does not help as some wax residue is left. Also, components become damaged from the air gun. The boards are also covered in contact cement that has become corrosive and conductive. Currently we are using Methaline Chloride to soften the glue and then pick it away. Questions are as follows: 1) How can the wax be completely removed? 2) How can the glue be removed without using such a toxic substance as paint stripper? 3) Is there an economical device that can be purchased to reflow these old boards without hand resoldering hundreds of cold/contaminated connections? Any help would be greatly appreciated! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:04:04 +1200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Michael Bell <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Michael Bell <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Heat Dissapation through Vias MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all, I have stumbled across a problem with heat dissapation on an RF type PCA. Our customer has designed the PCB with 0.3mm via's underneath various components, (power transistors), and now this is causing a thermal dissapation problem. The part manufacturer had the following suggestions... "Manufacturing suggestions, To properly use the parts in a manufacturing environment, it is recommended that an additional reflow process is used to ensure solder has filled the thermal vias beneath the part. The steps are as follows: 1. Apply solder paste to area containing thermal vias. 2. Reflow the board and the solder paste will wick through the via holes. 3. Cover the backside of the board beneath the power amplifier with Kapton tape and reflow the part to the board. The solder will remain in the via holes and the power amplifier will be properly connected to the thermal/ground pad below it." Is anyone performing such a process??? What implications and problems does anyone have with trying to gasket the stencil over these filled via's??? What other issues are there? Cheers Mike --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:17:32 +0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, sangliu <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: sangliu <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Mini soldering Nozzle maintenance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CE72.AE0BB140" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CE72.AE0BB140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Carl, we had this happen to us before, more as a self inflicted QC problem. QC insisted that we solder all of the crimped pins on a connector harness. When the harnesses were assembled and installed in the equipment we had about a 50% failure rate (broken connections). After much discussion and interfacing with the pin manufacturer we convinced QC that you solder "solder cup pins" and you crimp "crimp pins", but you never do both in any case. We wound up remaking all of the harnesses and as I recall we had less than .2% failure in the hundreds of harnesses that we built after that using only crimps. Good luck, Carl. Ron Dieselberg Trainer/Auditor CMC ELECTRONICS CINCINNATI [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Carl VanWormer [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 14:35 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Soldering crimp connectors We have a customer who insists that we solder our crimp connectors (after crimping). He has had corrosion problems and is convinced that this is the best solution. Is this a good thing? Are there any downsides we should point out to help educate him? Carl Van Wormer Cipher Systems 1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010 Beaverton, OR 97006 Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CE72.AE0BB140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2652.35"> <TITLE>RE: [TN] Soldering crimp connectors</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Carl, we had this happen to us before, = more as a self inflicted QC problem. QC insisted that we solder all of = the crimped pins on a connector harness. When the harnesses were = assembled and installed in the equipment we had about a 50% failure = rate (broken connections). After much discussion and interfacing with = the pin manufacturer we convinced QC that you solder "solder cup pins" = and you crimp "crimp pins", but you never do both in any case. We = wound up remaking all of the harnesses and as I recall we had less than = .2% failure in the hundreds of harnesses that we built after = that using only crimps.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Good luck, Carl.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Ron Dieselberg</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Trainer/Auditor</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CMC ELECTRONICS</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CINCINNATI</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">[log in to unmask]</FONT> </P> <UL><UL> <P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original = Message-----</FONT></A> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: Carl VanWormer = [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]</FONT></B> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent: </FONT></B> <FONT = SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Wednesday, March 13, 2002 14:35 PM</FONT> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">To: </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">[log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: </FONT>= </B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">[TN] Soldering crimp = connectors</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">We have a customer who insists that we = solder our crimp connectors (after</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">crimping). He has had corrosion = problems and is convinced that this is the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">best solution. Is this a good = thing? Are there any downsides we should</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">point out to help educate him?</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Carl Van Wormer</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Cipher Systems</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">1815 NW 169th Place, Suite = 5010</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Beaverton, OR 97006</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Phone = (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">---------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Technet Mail List provided as a free = service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To unsubscribe, send a message to = [log in to unmask] with following text in</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">the BODY (NOT the subject field): = SIGNOFF Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To temporarily halt delivery of = Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To receive ONE mailing per day of all = the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Search previous postings at: = www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail = Archives</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Please visit IPC web site <A = HREF=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A> for = additional</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">information, or contact Keach = Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">---------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------</FONT> </P> </UL></UL> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CE72.AE0BB140-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:11:02 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Takach, Lou J" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Takach, Lou J" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Non-Standard material MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Good Morning Technetters... I need your input / advice. Our manufacturing facility has recently (within a year or so...) switched to a new PCB fabricator. I'm now starting to get complaints from manufacturing that our fabricator is having trouble obtaining the 'non-standard' material that we are specifying. First of all, I don't believe that I'm specifying non-standard material, this is where I need your input. Most of our boards are multi-layer, usually 4 to 6 layers and we use FR4. We typically specify 2-oz copper on the internal power and ground layers and sometimes 1-oz copper for the outer signal layers. Is this non-standard? The fabricator says that they typically don't stock 1 over 2 copper. Maybe I'm missing something but I thought that the stackup could be made of individual copper sheets of various copper weights as long as the layer sequence was balanced. All comments welcome... Lou --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:15:57 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: IPC-602A X-To: tech <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think you still have a typo. There is an IPC-AC-62A part of a series of cleaning handbooks. 62A is the Aqueous Post Solder Cleaning Handbook. > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of tech > Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 2:29 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] IPC-602A > > > Sorry, > What I'm looking for is IPC- 60 2A. Its apparently NOT a > 6012 typo. > Sorry for the error > Regards > Paul Greene > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:41:19 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Prepreg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Is there any documentation available which lists all prepregs and their properties? I have a hard time understanding what 2113, 2116, 2125, etc, are. This info will also help me spec out our new board designs. Thanks, Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Layhe [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:14 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Prepreg Agree with everything you say ....except there are now high resin content (48%)7628 pre-pregs which means that you can use it facing copper layers. 2116 is definitely the best pre-preg, the glass weave is nice and even and the resin content is about 55%. It's better for inner layer registration than 2125. Geoff Layhe www.lamar-uk.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 15 March 2002 10:40 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Prepreg Again, but I love this stuff, you don't need two ply constructions except when you need them. You get very well balanced structures, from a resin to glass ratio point of view, with single ply preg and core material except when using 7628 types/styles. You never use this facing copper as it only has about 43% resin content and you may very well find starvation using it. I feel like I've written this before. Anyway, 2113 and 2116 glass styles offer the best of both laminate integrity (plenty of resin) and dimensional stability (plenty of glass). No problem using two plies of these types in whatever requirement. Two plies of 106 or 1080 isn't appropriate, if avoidable, because it's two resin rich and makes everything slip and slide in the press and that's a mess. As for the shorting issues, that's been resolved even by the military/aerospace folks for years. How many, I can't even remember. If you've seen this condition, as voiding and shorting etc., get a photo for us all to see. If proof exists, it has to be a billion to one shot and certainly would point to possible process control problems of an other than preg issue. MoonMan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Private & Confidential: This e-mail message is confidential and is intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. If the message is received by anyone other than the addressee please return the message to the sender by replying to it and then delete the message from your computer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:53:09 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Prepreg X-To: [log in to unmask] Go to laminate suppliers as polyclad, Nelco, etc. Each has its list of glass styles and resin contents, etc. Please note, the need for homogenious materials. You can ask what that means but examples are 2113, 2116, 1080. As examples, 2113 is about 4 mils thick with a resin content of about 58$. 2116 is about 5 mils thick with a resin congent of about 53%. 1080 is about 2.5 mils thick with a resin content from 65 to 70$. Also include 106 as a homogeneous glass style (60 yarn bundles per inch, made up of 7-9 micron glass fibers, in the warp direction - and I'll explain why this is important when asked) I'll give you MY chart of materials, resin contents, if you wish, and usage requirements that have served me well over many years. Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:59:20 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Franck, George" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Franck, George" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Surge voltages and conductor spacings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Technet: I am looking for information on how to convert electrical surge voltages into minimum spacing requirements. I would like to use the "Electrical conductor Spacing" charts in the IPC design documents, but I am pretty sure they do not apply to surge voltages. We are looking at withstanding lightning induced voltages on our inputs. If we make an assumption that the electronics upstream from my device will only pass surges of voltages less that 1500 V, what spacing should I use. For surges greater that 1500V, we are going to assume the upstream electronics will 'Blow up", grounding the surge, or (hopefully) not sending it down to our device at any rate. How would it change if the surge voltage changes to 2000 V, 1000V, 500V? Sounds like a college home work question in an upper level Electrical Engineering class. Too bad I graduated with a Chemical Engineers degree. George Franck --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:57:38 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Non-Standard material X-To: [log in to unmask] "Standard" usually is whatever material a board supplier stocks. All material suppliers provide whatever you specify but the cost for other than "standard" keeps this material "rare." Most everyone specifies .5 oz. material throughout the MLB structure. If you need other than "standard" be sure you inform and receive availability information from your supplier. You can get anything you want for a price. And on it goes. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:21:03 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Ted Tontis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ted Tontis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Contamination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We have a number of PWB's that show signs of contamination, management wants to find out if there is a way to clean the boards. I have told them once the corrosion starts there is no way to clean the assemblies and make them dependable enough to cover our warranty. Some of the boards show slight contamination and some more aggressive, but these have been in a controlled environment for some time. I feel If we where to send them out in a industrial environment the corrosion would rapidly increases. These boards are FR-4 and not conformal coated. Am I correct on this? Thank you, Ted Tontis C.I.D. Engage Networks, Inc. 1320 N. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Drive River Level Milwaukee, WI 53212 PH 414-918-4267 FX 414-273-7601 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:30:27 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Contamination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are these bare boards OR are they assemblies? Susan Mansilla Robisan Lab --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:34:31 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contamination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_C39E6408.2B4A27D8" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_C39E6408.2B4A27D8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Where is the contamination coming from? Is there a specific component = that is the issue or a process? What type of contamination are you asking = about? =20 Kathy=20 --=_C39E6408.2B4A27D8 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px"> <DIV>Where is the contamination coming from? Is there a specific component that is the issue or a process? What type of contamination are you asking about? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML> --=_C39E6408.2B4A27D8-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:41:54 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Contamination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are these assemblies or bare board? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:39:31 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Linda Langley <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Linda Langley <[log in to unmask]> Subject: FW: Military standards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any information out there? > -----Original Message----- > From: Sherry Trudell > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:15 AM > To: AUH Jabil > Subject: Military standards > > I was wondering if anyone has any military specifications? Specifically, > I am looking for the MIL-STD-100, MIL0STD-130, and MIL-STD-454. Let me > know if you can help. > > Thanks, > Sherry Trudell > Jabil Circuit > Design Services > 3800 Giddings Road > Auburn Hills, MI 48326 > (248)292-6534 > 82 284 6534 (Jabil Voice Network) > (248)292-6907 FAX > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:44:58 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Non-Standard material MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Moon nice insight, Your supplier should have this ready for you. You may have a good board house but a poor match to your needs. We have all kinds of wild and crazy materials, but for the FR4 family these are some panel stock numbers. Keep in mind core thickness varies, and these numbers are very rough; Cu Min Max h/h 2400 5000 h/1 800 1300 1/1 3450 7000 1/2 100 200 2/2 500 1000 As you can see .5 (h) is king today, but 1/2 is always in stock. Morale of the story... add this as an item when doing supplier surveys. The hardest working (and most clever) in any PCB shop is the Purchasing person. All these materials have a shelf life, cost a bundle (pun intended) and have limited storage space as controlled environment is recommended. If not careful your lams can pile up. Boston Brad Coretec FAE 781 858 0783 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:50:20 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Prepreg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, The place to start is IPC-2221 (quite a listing), the IPC-4101 always keeps me on the edge of my seat, but the real good detail stuff comes from your board supplier (reduces the 2221 list) and it's material supplier (resin content). I like a couple of them, give me a "heads up" offline and I will share that with you, if you like. Brad --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:58:46 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Surge voltages and conductor spacings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George, The old MIL-STD-275 has or had a nice section on high voltage that seems not to have made it into the IPC specification. It talks specifically about corona effects and the "snap" voltages. Although, I may be mixing my specs... MIL-***-2000 REV - had some nice data, as does or did the MIL-P-28809. The '275 does talk in terms of High Voltage. If you don't have those spec's give me a yell and I will break the glass bookshelf. The one marked "In case of Emergency, Break Glass." Good luck, Boston Brad 781 858 0783 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:02:45 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Machine part availability... X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Morning Steve, I am out of the office on Fridays so just got your mail. I have been going around with one of our vendors, similar story. When we bought the equipment 0201 placement was guaranteed, come time to places an order for pick up tools and no part number in their system. The company has been acquired, no familiar faces any where to be seen. Especially those who made the promises. I think there are probably a couple of things happening here. One relates to what Earl was talking about last week, RIF gone bad. The other is probably relates to vendors reducing inventory, they probably have to sign all requisitions in blood, the result of reduced operating capitol. I think my spleen feels lighter now, Dan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:12:10 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: FW: Military standards X-To: Linda Langley <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try this link to the DSCC site::: http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Library/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Langley" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 9:39 AM Subject: [TN] FW: Military standards > Any information out there? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sherry Trudell > > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:15 AM > > To: AUH Jabil > > Subject: Military standards > > > > I was wondering if anyone has any military specifications? Specifically, > > I am looking for the MIL-STD-100, MIL0STD-130, and MIL-STD-454. Let me > > know if you can help. > > > > Thanks, > > Sherry Trudell > > Jabil Circuit > > Design Services > > 3800 Giddings Road > > Auburn Hills, MI 48326 > > (248)292-6534 > > 82 284 6534 (Jabil Voice Network) > > (248)292-6907 FAX > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:05:25 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Foil Lamination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The call-out on our fab drawings states to use copper clad epoxy laminate FR4 base material. Our supplier in the past has purchased and certified material to IPC-4101. We have now found out they have incorporated foil lamination into their process. What type of requirements should we impose or verify? Thanks for your help! Rick Howieson --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:15:46 +0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Mark Ross <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Mark Ross <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Books/articles on thermal profiling Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Can anyone recommend a book or technical articles on thermal profiling of assemblies in reflow ovens? There seems to be a difference of opinion on the correct way to do it. I have heard: "Use high temperature solder and solder the thermocouple to the part (great if it isn't a 0402 or worse an 0201!)" "Don't use high temperature solder, it will alter the thermal mass of the device. Use a high temperature epoxy that is thermally conductive and glue the probe to the device". "Don't use epoxy, it changes the thermal mass of the device, use a temperature thin metal tape that has a strong high temperature adhesive". Also when it comes to keeping the parts on the board, I was all for a board being conformal coated to keep the parts from moving, scraping back of the coating where I needed to take my readings and then run the board through. I have been told that conformal alters the thermal mass of the product. And on and on.... Last time I asked for suggestions on soldering books, I was pointed to one By Jennie Hwang and that worked out great so I am hoping there are some books or articles and maybe even an IPC spec on how to do this so that I can ensure we are profiling the boards correctly. Thanks for all input. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:28:39 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: FW: Military standards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_166.a87c278.29c76fb7_boundary" --part1_166.a87c278.29c76fb7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Linda! Couldn't find anything under MIL-STD-100 or MIL-STD-130, can you give a description of what those standards are? The only thing I found close to MIL-STD-454 was MIL-HDBK-454. Go to: http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Downloads/MilSpec/Docs/MIL-HDBK-454/hb454.pdf sounds like that's what Sherry might have been looking for...it's a hefty download, 181-pages! -Steve Gregory- > Any information out there? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sherry Trudell > > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:15 AM > > To: AUH Jabil > > Subject: Military standards > > > > I was wondering if anyone has any military specifications? Specifically, > > I am looking for the MIL-STD-100, MIL0STD-130, and MIL-STD-454. Let me > > know if you can help. > > > > Thanks, > > Sherry Trudell > > Jabil Circuit > > Design Services > > 3800 Giddings Road > > Auburn Hills, MI 48326 > > (248)292-6534 > > 82 284 6534 (Jabil Voice Network) > > (248)292-6907 FAX > --part1_166.a87c278.29c76fb7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Linda! <BR> <BR>Couldn't find anything under MIL-STD-100 or MIL-STD-130, can you give a description of what those standards are? <BR> <BR>The only thing I found close to MIL-STD-454 was MIL-HDBK-454. Go to: <BR> <BR>http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Downloads/MilSpec/Docs/MIL-HDBK-454/hb454.pdf <BR> <BR>sounds like that's what Sherry might have been looking for...it's a hefty download, 181-pages! <BR> <BR>-Steve Gregory- <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Any information out there? <BR> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From: Sherry Trudell <BR>> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:15 AM <BR>> To: AUH Jabil <BR>> Subject: Military standards <BR>> <BR>> I was wondering if anyone has any military specifications? Specifically, <BR>> I am looking for the MIL-STD-100, MIL0STD-130, and MIL-STD-454. Let me <BR>> know if you can help. <BR>> <BR>> Thanks, <BR>> Sherry Trudell <BR>> Jabil Circuit <BR>> Design Services <BR>> 3800 Giddings Road <BR>> Auburn Hills, MI 48326 <BR>> (248)292-6534 <BR>> 82 284 6534 (Jabil Voice Network) <BR>> (248)292-6907 FAX <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR></FONT></HTML> --part1_166.a87c278.29c76fb7_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:50:17 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Surge voltages and conductor spacings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At Rev E, MIL-SDT-275 has been replaced by IPC-2221. Phil -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:59 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Surge voltages and conductor spacings George, The old MIL-STD-275 has or had a nice section on high voltage that seems = not to have made it into the IPC specification. It talks specifically about corona effects and the "snap" voltages. Although, I may be mixing my specs... MIL-***-2000 REV - had some nice data, as does or did the MIL-P-28809. The '275 does talk in terms of High Voltage. If you don't = have those spec's give me a yell and I will break the glass bookshelf. The = one marked "In case of Emergency, Break Glass." Good luck, Boston Brad 781 858 0783 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases = > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 = ext.5315 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:50:09 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Prepreg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Wes, Like BGA's and MicroVias you won't use single sheet until you must. I would continue note verbiage requiring 2 sheets until there is a compelling reason to go to one. Single sheet usage isn't bad, it quite good as a matter of fact, but first the comfort range of "thin" needs to realized, then the one ply. And Wes we met sometime ago at the Boston Chapter of IPC (the former Lockheed guy), I was in my Presidential attire (mostly dodging tomatoes, tuff crowd in Boston). In any case I believe you have heritage product using one ply. Contact outside the forum, email or phone, and we can compare notes. The old "Military" required one ply, and in its day very deservingly. It was also related to the old argument of "Foil" verses "Cap" construction. Requiring one ply also compensated for copper tooth and the ole "Wabash" rule of thumb squish factor for when people like me were behind the controls. Cheers, Boston Brad Saunders 781 858 0783 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:48:00 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Foil Lamination X-To: [log in to unmask] If foil maninating, a supplier might use 1 over 1 and etch off the outer side. Then, the supplier would place a single ply of some resin rich material (106 or 1080) in each MLB/book top and bottom then place the foil on top and bottom then laminate. There's more but someone will fill in the blanks. X sections tell the story, Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:08:11 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Impedance calculator MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good Luck, The impedance numbers are easy. Its meeting the tolerancing that is challenging. Personally I am a Polar Bear. I also do sanity checks with 2-4 other calculators, including home made ones from spread sheet software. "Standard" thickness is always a curve ball, as is additive copper (external and buried sub external layers), diff pair spacing to each other and distance to ref plane is wicked important, adjacent "look thru" plane clearance, and more "stuff" like correct terminals for verification, dedicated coupons, etc. If new to impedance I would read "Electronic Packaging of High Speed Circuitry" by Konsowski and Helland (McGraw Hill '97). It does a very nice job with diffs, cabling and lengths. Remember the output of any calculator reflects the quality of the input. And one last biggy for impedance; sameness is good. Boston Brad 781 858 0783 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:03:44 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Ed Popielarski <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ed Popielarski <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contaminated solder X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01C1CE5B.CE85B720" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C1CE5B.CE85B720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Earl, What you could be seeing IMHO is the result of an ancient technique for = wave soldering called wax stabilizing. Essentially, the through-hole = components were run through a wax wave to hold them in place during = in-line lead trimming prior to entering the solder wave. Many times a = joint was contaminated and not the most reliable thing on the planet, = but "it passed test... ship it!" was the common mentality, and now you = see why we don't do that anymore. I don't think a reflow would resolve = the issue at hand, since we would still have contaminated surfaces. Just my "dos centavos" from an old guy that remembers stuff. Regards, Ed Popielarski QTA Machine 10 Mc Laren, Ste D Irvine, Ca. 92618 Phone:949-581-6601 Fax: 949-581-2448 Cel: 949-337-2578 WWW.QTA.NET ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C1CE5B.CE85B720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Earl,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What you could be seeing IMHO is the = result of an=20 ancient technique for wave soldering called wax stabilizing. = Essentially, the=20 through-hole components were run through a wax wave to hold them in = place during=20 in-line lead trimming prior to entering the solder wave. Many times a = joint was=20 contaminated and not the most reliable thing on the planet, but "it = passed=20 test... ship it!" was the common mentality, and now you see why we don't = do that=20 anymore. I don't think a reflow would resolve the issue at hand, since = we would=20 still have contaminated surfaces.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just my "dos centavos" from an old guy = that=20 remembers stuff.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ed Popielarski<BR>QTA Machine<BR>10 Mc = Laren, Ste=20 D<BR>Irvine, Ca. 92618</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Phone:949-581-6601<BR>Fax: = 949-581-2448<BR>Cel:=20 949-337-2578</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20 href=3D"http://www.QTA.NET">WWW.QTA.NET</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01C1CE5B.CE85B720-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:28:39 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Lee Whiteman <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Lee Whiteman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: FW: Military standards X-To: Linda Langley <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <EEB096C80FFBB4419D26DDF24F2E65FD255D63@auhmsgn10b> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Linda, You can get them from this website: http://astimage.daps.dla.mil/online/new/ You will have to register with them before getting a password. Good Luck. Lee Whiteman Senior Manufacturing Engineer E-Mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Ph: (610) 362-1200 x208 Fax: (610) 362-1290 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Linda Langley > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:40 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] FW: Military standards > > > Any information out there? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sherry Trudell > > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:15 AM > > To: AUH Jabil > > Subject: Military standards > > > > I was wondering if anyone has any military specifications? > Specifically, > > I am looking for the MIL-STD-100, MIL0STD-130, and MIL-STD-454. Let me > > know if you can help. > > > > Thanks, > > Sherry Trudell > > Jabil Circuit > > Design Services > > 3800 Giddings Road > > Auburn Hills, MI 48326 > > (248)292-6534 > > 82 284 6534 (Jabil Voice Network) > > (248)292-6907 FAX > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:25:07 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Contamination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted, Are sure it isn't just a tarnishing of lands that have a non solder or ENIG finish? That appearance can get pretty bad looking, but is just appearance. Even that can be improved if need be. Boston Brad --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:09:52 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Prepreg X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Jim, I've put together a small handbook about multilayer bonding which contains some info on pre-pregs such as thickness, resin content, glass weave etc. You can request a copy from www.lamar-uk.co.uk. -----Original Message----- From: Marsico, James [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 18 March 2002 13:41 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Prepreg Is there any documentation available which lists all prepregs and their properties? I have a hard time understanding what 2113, 2116, 2125, etc, are. This info will also help me spec out our new board designs. Thanks, Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Layhe [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:14 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Prepreg Agree with everything you say ....except there are now high resin content (48%)7628 pre-pregs which means that you can use it facing copper layers. 2116 is definitely the best pre-preg, the glass weave is nice and even and the resin content is about 55%. It's better for inner layer registration than 2125. Geoff Layhe www.lamar-uk.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 15 March 2002 10:40 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Prepreg Again, but I love this stuff, you don't need two ply constructions except when you need them. You get very well balanced structures, from a resin to glass ratio point of view, with single ply preg and core material except when using 7628 types/styles. You never use this facing copper as it only has about 43% resin content and you may very well find starvation using it. I feel like I've written this before. Anyway, 2113 and 2116 glass styles offer the best of both laminate integrity (plenty of resin) and dimensional stability (plenty of glass). No problem using two plies of these types in whatever requirement. Two plies of 106 or 1080 isn't appropriate, if avoidable, because it's two resin rich and makes everything slip and slide in the press and that's a mess. As for the shorting issues, that's been resolved even by the military/aerospace folks for years. How many, I can't even remember. If you've seen this condition, as voiding and shorting etc., get a photo for us all to see. If proof exists, it has to be a billion to one shot and certainly would point to possible process control problems of an other than preg issue. MoonMan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Private & Confidential: This e-mail message is confidential and is intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. If the message is received by anyone other than the addressee please return the message to the sender by replying to it and then delete the message from your computer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Private & Confidential: This e-mail message is confidential and is intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. If the message is received by anyone other than the addressee please return the message to the sender by replying to it and then delete the message from your computer. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:25:18 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Prepreg X-To: [log in to unmask] BB, I just want to be sure we are concurrent. The "old" mil specs required TWO plies of preg per dielectirc thickness - not ONE. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:38:00 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Phil Kinner <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Phil Kinner <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Books/articles on thermal profiling X-To: Mark Ross <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark, The National Physical Laboratory here in the UK did a studio project on just this very topic. I believe you can download their recommendations at www.npl.co.uk/ei Phil Kinner Chief Chemist Concoat Ltd 2C Albany Park, Frimley Road, Camberley, Surrey, GU16 7PH Tel: +44 (0) 1276 691100 Fax: +44 (0) 1276 691227 -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mark Ross Sent: 18 March 2002 16:16 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Books/articles on thermal profiling Can anyone recommend a book or technical articles on thermal profiling of assemblies in reflow ovens? There seems to be a difference of opinion on the correct way to do it. I have heard: "Use high temperature solder and solder the thermocouple to the part (great if it isn't a 0402 or worse an 0201!)" "Don't use high temperature solder, it will alter the thermal mass of the device. Use a high temperature epoxy that is thermally conductive and glue the probe to the device". "Don't use epoxy, it changes the thermal mass of the device, use a temperature thin metal tape that has a strong high temperature adhesive". Also when it comes to keeping the parts on the board, I was all for a board being conformal coated to keep the parts from moving, scraping back of the coating where I needed to take my readings and then run the board through. I have been told that conformal alters the thermal mass of the product. And on and on.... Last time I asked for suggestions on soldering books, I was pointed to one By Jennie Hwang and that worked out great so I am hoping there are some books or articles and maybe even an IPC spec on how to do this so that I can ensure we are profiling the boards correctly. Thanks for all input. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:44:49 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Ted Tontis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ted Tontis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contamination X-To: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Kathy, The contamination is coming from the solder process. Most feel that it came from the HASL process and was left behind, following its way to the assembly process. There are large amounts of chloride and bromide left on the boards. The kicker is what we are finding out is that it is just not one product. It looks as though it's affected all the products that this co. has manufactured for us. Some of the products are still on the shelf in a warehouse, in there original packaging from the assembly house. I have been able to look over a few of these assembly's and they look to have trace amounts of contamination in different locations. Regards, Ted <snip> >Where is the contamination coming >from? Is there a specific component >that is the issue or a process? What >type of contamination are you asking >about? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:00:30 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Books/articles on thermal profiling X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mark, I suggest you point your browser over to ECD's web site (www.ecd.com). Since they sell instruments to do thermal profiling, they have lots of information on thermocouple attachment. Doug Pauls Rockwell Collins --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:05:37 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Linda Langley <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Linda Langley <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Care of Metcal tips X-To: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Phil, We use RMA solder strictly for tinning Metcal Tips, it has worked well prolonging tip life. A .125 dia. helps so our operators do not mistake it for anything else. Linda -----Original Message----- From: Phil Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:03 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Care of Metcal tips Based upon hour comments Steve, it sounds like this would be true for most soldering tips regardless of manufacturer. I'll have to pay closer attention to tip life here. Phil Nutting -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 6:06 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Care of Metcal tips Hi Lou! No Clean flux is actually the worse flux to use when you're talking tip life. Go to: http://www.metcal.com/tips/1.3.2.htm There's so little solids (it's mostly alcohol) that it flashes off the tip and doesn't protect the tip the same way a RMA does from oxidation. I think you'll find that you will go through more tips soldering with no clean fluxes than you do with any other flux type. -Steve Gregory- TechNetters, I've noted with interest the discussion of Metcal and other soldering irons over the past few days. A question has come up here about care of Metcal tips. We've gone to some lengths to eliminate RMA flux from the plant. However, Metcal recommends tinning tips with RMA-flux wire solder. We would like to use no-clean flux to tin tips. How risky would such a practice be? Any comments would be greatly appreciated. I called Metcal for advice and found the people I talked with to be very pleasant and eager to help. But no data were available, and, frankly, the people sounded very youthful. Lou Hart ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:10:26 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Contamination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Typical questions/observations are 1) do you specify a cleanliness level on the boards prior to assembly 2) do you specify a cleanliness level after assembly 3) for "corrosion" to take place - moisture must be present - perfectly clean boards will exhibit corrosion if they come in contact with water. Would need to have all the above info prior to pointing fingers. Perhaps some photos to Steve's website might also help. Susan Mansilla Technical Director Robisan Lab --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:12:07 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: FW: Military standards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Linda, I speak fluent MIL-Spec. Relative to PWB procurement 55110, 31032, and the beloved IPC-6012/3. Assembly is the J/STD-001. The MIL/DOD-STD-100 is obsolete as is almost everything else. 130 is marking, 454 workmanship, etc. Fine tune or tweak your question because we can go on and on... or least I can. And that can be pretty gosh darn boring to some, although not for me. Boston Brad 781 858 0783 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:18:17 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Foil Lamination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howie, Tell them the usual; cheaper, better, faster!!!! Foil configuration is mainstream on the globe. I would sleep easy. BB --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:14:59 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: 883 TEST METHODS FOR RGA Folks, Now that we're in a MIL mood, could someone quickly give me the MIL-STD-883E test method for RGA or residual gas analysis. I couldn't load the book on my very limited laptop. The method number will do fine. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:29:57 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: FW: Military standards X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (((laughing...))) Thats fuuuuuuuny... But I suppose we need to designate some people in those 'positions'...Keep up the good work... Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [TN] FW: Military standards > Hello Linda, > > I speak fluent MIL-Spec. Relative to PWB procurement 55110, 31032, and the > beloved IPC-6012/3. Assembly is the J/STD-001. The MIL/DOD-STD-100 is > obsolete as is almost everything else. 130 is marking, 454 workmanship, etc. > > Fine tune or tweak your question because we can go on and on... or least I > can. And that can be pretty gosh darn boring to some, although not for me. > > Boston Brad > 781 858 0783 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:28:23 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Surge voltages and conductor spacings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yup, Any information arrived through obsolete specifications is for education of self. I am not implying it is to be called out, it can't be. It doesn't mean the information is not quality, relevant material. Such as the MIL-130 marking spec; excellent marking info as is the 100 spec (Rev C, D and E) especially regarding reidentifying verses revision. Again excellent material. Just because something is retired doesn't make it non useful. Like the MIL-HDBK-454, well OK maybe not the 454. Not to mention the entertainment value in reading the ole spec's... I remember the first issue of 275D like it was yesterday.... BB --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:39:45 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Foil Lamination X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well B2, since I'm not getting it cheaper, nor faster how can I verify better. Careful...only breathing is mainstream and that of course can be questioned! -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 11:18 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Foil Lamination Howie, Tell them the usual; cheaper, better, faster!!!! Foil configuration is mainstream on the globe. I would sleep easy. BB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:51:18 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Non-Standard material MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Lou, Times when we've talked about standard and non-standard laminates it had to do with overall sheet size and tooling. My old shop was 1" oversized on cores when the industry standard is 1/2" oversize. What's your panel/board size? Hans AC-130 Gunship Motto: "You can run but you'll only die tired." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hans M. Hinners Electronics Engineer Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE) 226 Cochran Street Robins AFB GA 31098-1622 mailto:[log in to unmask] Com: (478) 926 - 5224 Fax: (478) 926 - 4911 DSN Prefix: 468 -----Original Message----- From: Takach, Lou J [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 7:11 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Non-Standard material Good Morning Technetters... I need your input / advice. Our manufacturing facility has recently (within a year or so...) switched to a new PCB fabricator. I'm now starting to get complaints from manufacturing that our fabricator is having trouble obtaining the 'non-standard' material that we are specifying. First of all, I don't believe that I'm specifying non-standard material, this is where I need your input. Most of our boards are multi-layer, usually 4 to 6 layers and we use FR4. We typically specify 2-oz copper on the internal power and ground layers and sometimes 1-oz copper for the outer signal layers. Is this non-standard? The fabricator says that they typically don't stock 1 over 2 copper. Maybe I'm missing something but I thought that the stackup could be made of individual copper sheets of various copper weights as long as the layer sequence was balanced. All comments welcome... Lou ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:00:14 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Mel Parrish <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Mel Parrish <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: FW: Military standards X-To: Linda Langley <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <EEB096C80FFBB4419D26DDF24F2E65FD255D63@auhmsgn10b> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Linda, The documents are available from ASSIST or I have a copy. Just let me know. MIL-STD-100 is Standard Drawing Practices MIL-STD-130 is Identification and Marking of Govt Property Best regards, Mel Mel Parrish Soldering Technology International 102 Tribble Drive Madison, AL 35758 256 705 5530 256 705 5538 Fax [log in to unmask] www.solderingtech.com -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Linda Langley Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 7:40 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] FW: Military standards Any information out there? > -----Original Message----- > From: Sherry Trudell > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:15 AM > To: AUH Jabil > Subject: Military standards > > I was wondering if anyone has any military specifications? Specifically, > I am looking for the MIL-STD-100, MIL0STD-130, and MIL-STD-454. Let me > know if you can help. > > Thanks, > Sherry Trudell > Jabil Circuit > Design Services > 3800 Giddings Road > Auburn Hills, MI 48326 > (248)292-6534 > 82 284 6534 (Jabil Voice Network) > (248)292-6907 FAX > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:08:31 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Roger Stoops <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Roger Stoops <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Foil Lamination X-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" In anticipation of this, our drawings call for laminate or prepreg to be FR-4. Some boards we leave it to the discretion of the fabricator as far as construction. You could add "per IPC-4101" and copper foil per the appropriate IPC doc just to make sure. Not surprising, since many multilayer boards are done w/foil lam to reduce $$$. Just be sure to use a general specification to cover yourself and communicate to your supplier what you want to end product to be made of or spec'ed to. Roger M. Stoops, CID [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 11:05 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Foil Lamination The call-out on our fab drawings states to use copper clad epoxy laminate FR4 base material. Our supplier in the past has purchased and certified material to IPC-4101. We have now found out they have incorporated foil lamination into their process. What type of requirements should we impose or verify? Thanks for your help! Rick Howieson --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:13:17 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Richard Carruth <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: FW: Military standards X-To: Linda Langley <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Here is what I found. Mil-Std-100G has been cancelled (see attachment for replacement specs) but Mil-Std-130K is still active. A good site to get membership is www.ihserc.com their you can find many specifications for Industry, DOD, Military, and Commercial. See attached for the ones you were looking for. (See attached file: mil-std-100G.pdf)(See attached file: mil-std-130K.pdf) Regards, Richard Carruth Quality Engineer LaBarge Inc. Ph# 918-459-2346 Linda Langley <[log in to unmask]> on 03/18/2002 09:39:31 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to Linda Langley <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: (bcc: Richard Carruth/LABARGE) Subject: [TN] FW: Military standards Any information out there? > -----Original Message----- > From: Sherry Trudell > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:15 AM > To: AUH Jabil > Subject: Military standards > > I was wondering if anyone has any military specifications? Specifically, > I am looking for the MIL-STD-100, MIL0STD-130, and MIL-STD-454. Let me > know if you can help. > > Thanks, > Sherry Trudell > Jabil Circuit > Design Services > 3800 Giddings Road > Auburn Hills, MI 48326 > (248)292-6534 > 82 284 6534 (Jabil Voice Network) > (248)292-6907 FAX > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:27:39 -0800 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Hans Shin <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 883 TEST METHODS FOR RGA X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Earl, I believe it's Method 1018.3. Hans Shin Pacific Testing Laboratories, Inc. www.pacifictesting.com -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Earl Moon Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:15 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] 883 TEST METHODS FOR RGA Folks, Now that we're in a MIL mood, could someone quickly give me the MIL-STD-883E test method for RGA or residual gas analysis. I couldn't load the book on my very limited laptop. The method number will do fine. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:40:00 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Ted Tontis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ted Tontis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contamination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Brad, Forgot to mention the green growth all over the fine pitch parts. One of the products was tested by our customer, and we know what is on them. The other products are questionable until I can have them professional tested. Ted --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:58:03 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 883 TEST METHODS FOR RGA X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Earl 1018.2 is internal water/vapor content. I don't recall a specific test for RGA. Dan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:57:27 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Foil Lamination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Rick, When they transition your board from cap lam. to foil lam. the shop should do a First Article Inspection (FAI) to validate the process. The FAI should include cross sections to confirm that the dielectric spacing is hitting spec between layers and overall. More generally, I'd want to make sure they have an established process to deal with wrinkles and when that defect scraps a board. Foil wrinkles show up in low pressure areas such as the route lines on multi-board panel. If the resin spots start killing them let me know - I know how to fix that. Boston Brad's got it right sleep soundly cuz foil lam. is A-okay. Besides late nights are the pride & joy of every Lamination Engineer (LOL/JK). Hans AC-130 Gunship Motto: "You can run, but you'll only die tired." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hans M. Hinners Electronics Engineer Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE) 226 Cochran Street Robins AFB GA 31098-1622 mailto:[log in to unmask] Com: (478) 926 - 5224 Fax: (478) 926 - 4911 DSN Prefix: 468 -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 11:05 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Foil Lamination The call-out on our fab drawings states to use copper clad epoxy laminate FR4 base material. Our supplier in the past has purchased and certified material to IPC-4101. We have now found out they have incorporated foil lamination into their process. What type of requirements should we impose or verify? Thanks for your help! Rick Howieson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:57:37 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Non-Standard material X-To: "Takach, Lou J" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain One thing you should definitely verify is that the "non-standard" issue is related solely to inventory issues. There are some shops that don't run unbalanced copper weights. It's not that it's rocket science but they just haven't invested the effort to doing so. If this is the case and they don't really have process for doing this, you're looking at a completely different issue. If you've got a shop that is doing this for the first time, I'd ask for some data verifying that they are doing it correctly. From an inventory perspective, this combination of copper clad should be readily available. It's not used as commonly as some of the other clad combinations which can complicate availability. Let's face it, there are so many different materials available in so many thicknesses, that no shop can afford to keep inventory of every possible combination of clad materials. But if you use only a few different cores with this combination of clad weights, you should be able to work with the fabricator to stock adequate levels for your needs. It sounds there's a disconnect between what you and your fabricator consider "standard". Perhaps your Purchasing department can help you get calibrated. > ---------- > From: Takach, Lou J[SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;Takach, Lou J > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 4:11 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Non-Standard material > > Good Morning Technetters... > > I need your input / advice. Our manufacturing facility has recently > (within > a year or so...) switched to a new PCB fabricator. I'm now starting to get > complaints from manufacturing that our fabricator is having trouble > obtaining the 'non-standard' material that we are specifying. First of > all, > I don't believe that I'm specifying non-standard material, this is where I > need your input. Most of our boards are multi-layer, usually 4 to 6 layers > and we use FR4. We typically specify 2-oz copper on the internal power and > ground layers and sometimes 1-oz copper for the outer signal layers. Is > this > non-standard? The fabricator says that they typically don't stock 1 over 2 > copper. Maybe I'm missing something but I thought that the stackup could > be > made of individual copper sheets of various copper weights as long as the > layer sequence was balanced. > > All comments welcome... > > Lou > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:03:37 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: 883 TEST METHODS FOR RGA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The method is 1018 - Internal Water Vapor Content. They don't use the RGA term. Silly, huh? I recommend looking at these guys for RGA . http://www.pernicka.com/ <http://www.pernicka.com/> from my pal Bruce in component land.... BB --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:59:43 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 883 TEST METHODS FOR RGA X-To: [log in to unmask] Thanks Dan, Out of 700 plus pages, that's the only test method I couldn't remember or am I lying? Enjoy, Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:16:49 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contamination X-To: Ted Tontis <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B648B8004D978858D7F27262" --------------B648B8004D978858D7F27262 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted, You have several process problems. The biggest is exposure to moisture. At Relative Humidities > 50% you are going to see negative effects to your products over time. You are correct in assuming that once "corrosion" has occurred the product reliability has been compromised. You must gain control of your processes. In order to do this you need testing methods as part of the manufacturing process. If management does hot want to spend the money UPDATE YOUR RESUME!! David A. Douthit Manager LoCan LLC Ted Tontis wrote: > Brad, > > Forgot to mention the green growth all over the fine pitch parts. > One of the products was tested by our customer, and we know what is on them. > The other products are questionable until I can have them professional > tested. > > Ted > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------B648B8004D978858D7F27262 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Ted, <p>You have several process problems. The biggest is exposure to moisture. <br>At Relative Humidities <u>></u> 50% you are going to see negative effects to your products over time. <p>You are correct in assuming that once "corrosion" has occurred the product reliability has been compromised. <br>You must gain control of your processes. In order to do this you need testing methods as part of the <br>manufacturing process. If management does hot want to spend the money UPDATE YOUR RESUME!! <p>David A. Douthit <br>Manager <br>LoCan LLC <p>Ted Tontis wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Brad, <p> Forgot to mention the green growth all over the fine pitch parts. <br>One of the products was tested by our customer, and we know what is on them. <br>The other products are questionable until I can have them professional <br>tested. <p>Ted <p>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <br>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d <br>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in <br>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet <br>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL <br>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest <br>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives <br>Please visit IPC web site <a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a> for additional <br>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 <br>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</blockquote> </html> --------------B648B8004D978858D7F27262-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:42:38 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Non-Standard material X-To: "Takach, Lou J" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It depends on what stack up is used. 1 over 2 probably is not stocked. A 4 layer made with a center core of 2 ounce both sides and foil or cap layers is not a nonstandard layup. Many computer cards used to be made that way and spot faced off to see alignment targets inside for drill registration. Something in a six layer where you do not put the heavier foil on either side of a layer makes it get interesting and might cause heart burn. ----- Original Message ----- Wrom: OYIYZUNNYCGPKYLEJGDGVCJVTLBXFGGMEPYOQ To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 5:11 AM Subject: [TN] Non-Standard material > Good Morning Technetters... > > I need your input / advice. Our manufacturing facility has recently (within > a year or so...) switched to a new PCB fabricator. I'm now starting to get > complaints from manufacturing that our fabricator is having trouble > obtaining the 'non-standard' material that we are specifying. First of all, > I don't believe that I'm specifying non-standard material, this is where I > need your input. Most of our boards are multi-layer, usually 4 to 6 layers > and we use FR4. We typically specify 2-oz copper on the internal power and > ground layers and sometimes 1-oz copper for the outer signal layers. Is this > non-standard? The fabricator says that they typically don't stock 1 over 2 > copper. Maybe I'm missing something but I thought that the stackup could be > made of individual copper sheets of various copper weights as long as the > layer sequence was balanced. > > All comments welcome... > > Lou > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:42:34 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: 883 TEST METHODS FOR RGA X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Wellllllllllll, not knowing exactly what you are looking for, here would be my guess. There is no method specifically called residual gas analysis. Method 1018.2 Internal water vapor content Doug Pauls Rockwell Collins --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:00:35 -0800 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 883 TEST METHODS FOR RGA X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BB, Thanks for the method and the site. MM ----- Original Message ----- From: <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [TN] 883 TEST METHODS FOR RGA > The method is 1018 - Internal Water Vapor Content. They don't use the RGA > term. Silly, huh? I recommend looking at these guys for RGA . > > http://www.pernicka.com/ <http://www.pernicka.com/> > > > from my pal Bruce in component land.... > > BB > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:58:39 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brian McCrory <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brian McCrory <[log in to unmask]> Organization: Delsen Testing Laboratories, Inc. Subject: Re: Books/articles on thermal profiling X-To: Mark Ross <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Ross wrote: > Can anyone recommend a book or technical articles on thermal profiling of > assemblies in reflow ovens? There seems to be a difference of opinion on > the correct way to do it. > Mark, You might also take a look at IPC-7530, "Guidelines for Temperature Profiling for Mass Soldering Processes (Reflow and Wave)". I'm sure you can get it through the IPC bookstore. -- Brian McCrory Delsen Testing Laboratories, Inc. 1024 Grand Central Ave. Glendale, CA 91201 Phone: (818) 247-4106 FAX: (818) 247-4537 email: [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:04:08 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Non-Standard material X-To: [log in to unmask] Just have to say as much as SMT is great, this MLB and material stuff is the greatest as no SMT would be possible without its understanding at the design through manufacturing levels. This little session has brought forth some of the best answers ever concerning PCB material and MLB technology. Damn fine stuff and keep it up. The forum has missed PCB/MLB stuff for too long, MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:13:00 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Non-Standard material MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_18e.5060b4f.29c7b25c_boundary" --part1_18e.5060b4f.29c7b25c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To my heavy friends... One person's "odd" build is another's "POC" (Piece Of Cake). It is not "non standard" build, it is a segment of the industry. We (Coretec) service the "Industrial Controls" market quite often with Thermal Management and Current Carrying Capacity substrates. I do seminars on it all day long and have a team of "Heavy Copper Guys". On a daily basis we do from 1/4 ounce (MicroVia) to 6 ounce (Wicked Heavy) and all UL approved. Now, shame on you if your ordering 1 over 2 without any need. I'm not on a selling jag here, you need to align with suppliers that do what you want in a standard business setting. Don't complain about the pizza at the steak house. Believe me I LOVE half ounce. I wish the whole world bought half over half; its easy to make. That doesn't make the other weights "non standard" it is much more challenging to make. Someone help down from this soap box. Thank you, (your humble service guy) Boston Brad 781 858 0783 --part1_18e.5060b4f.29c7b25c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>To my heavy friends...<BR> <BR> One person's "odd" build is another's "POC" (Piece Of Cake). It is not "non standard" build, it is a segment of the industry. We (</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><I>Coretec</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></I>) service the "Industrial Controls" market quite often with Thermal Management and Current Carrying Capacity substrates. I do seminars on it all day long and have a team of "Heavy Copper Guys". On a daily basis we do from 1/4 ounce (MicroVia) to 6 ounce (Wicked Heavy) and all UL approved. Now, shame on you if your ordering 1 over 2 without any need.<BR> I'm not on a selling jag here, you need to align with suppliers that do what you want in a standard business setting. Don't complain about the pizza at the steak house.<BR> <BR> Believe me I LOVE half ounce. I wish the whole world bought half over half; its easy to make. That doesn't make the other weights "non standard" it is much more challenging to make. Someone help down from this soap box.<BR> <BR> Thank you, (your humble service guy)<BR> <BR> Boston Brad<BR> 781 858 0783</FONT></HTML> --part1_18e.5060b4f.29c7b25c_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:05:02 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Non-Standard material X-To: [log in to unmask] BB Humble my moonyou butt good stuff. Damn good sales pitches as well. Does that bring you down? MM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:08:22 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Contamination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The question has been asked of whether you can remove corrosion and still have a reliable assembly. The answer is, yes you can, provided you put enough effort into it. We make stuff that has to last 20-30 years in the field, and we are not that much different from many military depots in that respect. We also service our own equipment, and warrantee it after repairs. I know the Naval depots have done it for years. You must do the following: 1. Satisfy yourself first that the visual effect is indeed corrosion. 2. Remove the contaminant that caused the corrosion in the first place. 3. Remove the corrosion itself by some oblation or abrasive method, down to the base metal. 4. Verify that the previous step did not reduce the circuit trace/path below minimums. 5. Repassivate the surfaces involved. 6. Clean the area and verify cleanliness. 7. Seal the area (e.g. new conformal coat). 8. Until such a process is well understood, put the unit through extended burn in testing to verify proper function. For throw away electronics, this may be much more hassle than it is worth. But, for legacy systems that are not manufactured anymore, it is a viable path. As with most manufacturing, you can do it, provided you know what you are doing and have the data to back you up. Doug Pauls Rockwell Collins --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:36:10 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Particulate Matter - No Clean MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Technetters, Need everyone's input on this issue. Have a customer who is unhappy with "Brush" (Bristle or similar) fibers on board. They are specifically mentioning section 7.2 and figure 7-4. Picture shows many instances of particulate matter. We are seeing 1 or 2 brush fibers (non-conductive). What is the issue or feelings of the experts out there on this being a defect? The board is OK except for the brush fibers. The customer does not have a standard saying fibers are not allowed, just citing the above mentioned paragraph and verse. Thanks in advance for your input, Carl Barnes Production Process Analyst 480-968-6790 extension: 4236 Page At: 602-201-1435 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:08:24 +0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Board Bow and Twist X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Late input here. Look at your boards as being incremental elements of the entire panel. The bow and twist on one board is proably very small, which, if you were processing individual boards, would not matter. The actual positional displacement of component locations would be tiny. However, on a large panel where the displacement has been compounded many times, the displacement (b/t) becomes significant. Hence the reason why panelled boards shall be considered as panels and not as individual boards. Peter "Marsico, James" <James.Marsico@D To: [log in to unmask] P.AIL.COM> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST Sent by: TechNet Aero/ST Group) <[log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Board Bow and Twist > 03/14/02 09:29 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Marsico, James" I look at it from a different perspective, reliability. If you populate (and reflow) warped boards, what happens to the solder joints when the boards are flattened when installed in the next higher assembly? Now that I think about it, probably nothing, since the solder will eventually relax. Right? But why else would there be a more stringent flatness requirement for SMT boards than TH since most P&P systems hold SMT boards down by the edges? Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: Franklin D Asbell [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 8:25 AM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.; Marsico, James Subject: Re: [TN] Board Bow and Twist James, An afterthought, the bow and twist requirement is there to provide ease of board population as well as end use fit. If the board is warped prior to assembly, this indeed would affect population thus potentially making the boards unsuitable for end use...just something to think about, or pass along to your supplier. Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:48 AM Subject: [TN] Board Bow and Twist > I think this is a no-brainer, but here goes... We were delivered boards in > panel form from one of our suppliers. At Incoming Inspection, the panel was > rejected for excessive bow (>75% for SMT) and returned the supplier. The > supplier called me and said that even though the panel exceeded the bow > requirement, the individual boards were acceptable. When I quoted the bow > and twist requirement from IPC-6012, "Panels which contain multiple printed > boards which are assembled on the panel and later separated shall be > assessed in panel form." , he said yes, you measure the individual boards in > the panel. I need clarification. > Thanks, > Jim Marsico > Senior Engineer > Production Engineering > EDO Electronics Systems Group > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > 631-595-5879 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you.] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:55:01 +0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Non-Standard material X-To: "Takach, Lou J" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Lou, The 10 & 12 layer boards I currently work with are FR4/26 Tg 170 stuff and we specify 2 oz copper plane layers and 1 oz signal layers. Although we also illustrate the stack-up as copper-core-copper prepreg copper-core-copper, I believe our fab shop laminates copper foil to achieve the end result. Having said that, just because your fab shop doesn't stock it doesn't necessarily make it non-standard material. Did your previous fab shop comment on having the same problem, or did they have stock, or did they do foil lamination? Peter "Takach, Lou J" To: [log in to unmask] <ljtakach@SWI cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST TCH.COM> Aero/ST Group) Sent by: Subject: [TN] Non-Standard material TechNet <[log in to unmask] ORG> 03/18/02 08:11 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Takach, Lou J" Good Morning Technetters... I need your input / advice. Our manufacturing facility has recently (within a year or so...) switched to a new PCB fabricator. I'm now starting to get complaints from manufacturing that our fabricator is having trouble obtaining the 'non-standard' material that we are specifying. First of all, I don't believe that I'm specifying non-standard material, this is where I need your input. Most of our boards are multi-layer, usually 4 to 6 layers and we use FR4. We typically specify 2-oz copper on the internal power and ground layers and sometimes 1-oz copper for the outer signal layers. Is this non-standard? The fabricator says that they typically don't stock 1 over 2 copper. Maybe I'm missing something but I thought that the stackup could be made of individual copper sheets of various copper weights as long as the layer sequence was balanced. All comments welcome... Lou --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you.] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:25:53 +0200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contamination X-To: Ted Tontis <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted I agree with St. Doug but ther may be some other steps you will find useful. Corrosion products are usually a mixture of soluble salts, like copper chloride, and insoluble ones, like carbonates, oxides and hydroxides, as well as a gunge of the original contamination. The first thing I would do is to immerse the products in a 2 - 3% solution of hydrochloric acid at, say, 40deg C. This will dissolve away the soluble and much of the insoluble corrosion products (a little brushing with a nylon-bristles brush will aid the process). I would then suggest a proprietary neutraliser (of the type used as a rinse-aid after soldering with water-soluble fluxes) containing the disodium salt of EDTA. This will help to chelate any remaining metal salts, especially the relatively insoluble lead ones. Finally, I would give them a saponifier wash, to make sure that all of the original flux residues are removed, followed by a damned good rinse cycle, ending with DI water. At this stage, you can be reasonably sure no corrosion-causing chemistry remains on the assembly and it will be possible to evaluate the damage and whether the assembly is usable/repairable/throw-awayable. Be particularly cautious where there are noble metals: gold-plated kovar leads, for example, are notorious for promoting stress corrosion on bends and I've seen cases where the kovar has been completely eaten away and the component is held on by the gold plating! Oh, BTW, your solder joints will appear matt after this treatment, but this does not matter: they will be perfectly OK from the chemical, metallurgical and mechanical points of view. It is purely a cosmetic dulling. Just as an additional precaution, in view of their history, I think I'd be inclined to give these assemblies a spray of an acrylic conformal coating, but this won't be strictly necessary if they meet the testing that Doug advocates. Brian Ted Tontis wrote: > > We have a number of PWB's that show signs of contamination, > management wants to find out if there is a way to clean the boards. I have > told them once the corrosion starts there is no way to clean the assemblies > and make them dependable enough to cover our warranty. Some of the boards > show slight contamination and some more aggressive, but these have been in a > controlled environment for some time. I feel If we where to send them out in > a industrial environment the corrosion would rapidly increases. These boards > are FR-4 and not conformal coated. Am I correct on this? > > Thank you, > > Ted Tontis C.I.D. > Engage Networks, Inc. > 1320 N. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Drive > River Level > Milwaukee, WI 53212 > PH 414-918-4267 > FX 414-273-7601 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:55:25 +0200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Particulate Matter - No Clean X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carl, For me, these fibres are strictly verboten! If they are a natural fibre, they are almost certainly hygroscopic. If they are synthetic, they may be, as well, but they may also harbour electrostatic charges. Either way, you don't have a clue what is on them, in the way of contamination. Brian [log in to unmask] wrote: > > Hello Technetters, > > Need everyone's input on this issue. > > Have a customer who is unhappy with "Brush" (Bristle or similar) fibers on > board. They are specifically mentioning section 7.2 and figure 7-4. Picture > shows many instances of particulate matter. We are seeing 1 or 2 brush > fibers (non-conductive). What is the issue or feelings of the experts out > there on this being a defect? The board is OK except for the brush fibers. > The customer does not have a standard saying fibers are not allowed, just > citing the above mentioned paragraph and verse. > > Thanks in advance for your input, > > Carl Barnes > Production Process Analyst > 480-968-6790 > extension: 4236 > Page At: 602-201-1435 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:35:34 +0200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Grant Emandien <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Grant Emandien <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Soldermask color MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, We have received PCBs with solder mask exhibiting color variarion i.e. light and darker hues on the same PCB. The color differences are more prevalent around vias but also evident on other areas. The light hue has a more matt finish while the darker hue exhibits a sheen, almost an oily appearance but is not easily removed. Any comments on what it may be and possible effects (for conformal coating)? TIA Grant ********************************************************************** Notice: This email transmission contains confidential information which is the property of the sender. The information is intended only for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or distribution of the contents of this e-mail transmission, or the taking of any action in reliance thereon or pursuant thereto, is strictly prohibited. Should you have received this email in error, please immediately notify us by telephone to arrange for return of the documentation comprising this transmission. In no event will Tellumat (Pty) Ltd or the sender of this email be liable to any party for any direct, indirect, special or other consequential damages for any use of this email, or on any other hyper linked website, including, without limitation, any lost profits, business interruption, loss of programs or other data on your information handling system or otherwise, even if we are expressly advised of the possibility of! such damages. ********************************************************************** --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:27:21 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Albin, David" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Albin, David" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Soldermask color X-To: Grant Emandien <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Grant, Unfortunately, without seeing the board or pictures of the problem I can only give some general comments: a) Differences in colour may be down to thickness variations in the soldermask coating. Areas around vias or edges of high plated = tracks may appear lighter than the bulk. b) Lightening of soldermask may also be due to moisture absorption, sometimes seen after HASL or any other hot, wet = post-processing (ENIG for example). You may find that baking the board at 140=B0C - = 150=B0C (284=B0F - 302=B0F) for ~20 min will remove this effect. As you also comment on a different finish (matte for light areas, = glossy for dark) I suspect your problem might be more related to (a) above, = because you are also seeing 'artwork marking' from the UV exposure process. You = might see this if you have a thicker ink deposit that has not been fully = dried prior to exposure. I can't comment on possible effects on conformal coat, although I would suspect that if the colour differences are due to moisture absorption = you'll want to get that out before considering overcoating. Cheers, David Albin Coates Circuit Products -----Original Message----- From: Grant Emandien [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 19 March 2002 09:36 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Soldermask color Hi, We have received PCBs with solder mask exhibiting color variarion i.e. = light and darker hues on the same PCB. The color differences are more = prevalent around vias but also evident on other areas. The light hue has a more = matt finish while the darker hue exhibits a sheen, almost an oily appearance = but is not easily removed. Any comments on what it may be and possible effects (for conformal = coating)? TIA Grant ********************************************************************** Notice: This email transmission contains confidential information which is the property of the sender. The information is intended only for the use of = the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby = notified that any disclosure, copying or distribution of the contents of this = e-mail transmission, or the taking of any action in reliance thereon or = pursuant thereto, is strictly prohibited. Should you have received this email in error, please immediately notify us by telephone to arrange for return = of the documentation comprising this transmission. In no event will = Tellumat (Pty) Ltd or the sender of this email be liable to any party for any = direct, indirect, special or other consequential damages for any use of this = email, or on any other hyper linked website, including, without limitation, = any lost profits, business interruption, loss of programs or other data on = your information handling system or otherwise, even if we are expressly = advised of the possibility of! such damages. ********************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & = Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or = 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:25:09 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Dieselberg, Ron" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dieselberg, Ron" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 883 TEST METHODS FOR RGA X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CF38.BA12D880" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CF38.BA12D880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mostly Methane. Look under pork and beans! Ron Dieselberg Trainer/Auditor CMC ELECTRONICS CINCINNATI [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 13:15 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] 883 TEST METHODS FOR RGA Folks, Now that we're in a MIL mood, could someone quickly give me the MIL-STD-883E test method for RGA or residual gas analysis. I couldn't load the book on my very limited laptop. The method number will do fine. MoonMan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CF38.BA12D880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2652.35"> <TITLE>RE: [TN] 883 TEST METHODS FOR RGA</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Mostly Methane. Look under pork and = beans!</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Ron Dieselberg</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Trainer/Auditor</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CMC ELECTRONICS</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CINCINNATI</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">[log in to unmask]</FONT> </P> <UL><UL> <P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original = Message-----</FONT></A> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: Earl Moon [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]</FONT></= B> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent: </FONT></B> <FONT = SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Monday, March 18, 2002 13:15 PM</FONT> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">To: </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">[log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: </FONT>= </B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">[TN] 883 TEST METHODS FOR RGA</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Folks,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Now that we're in a MIL mood, could = someone quickly give me the MIL-STD-883E</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">test method for RGA or residual gas = analysis. I couldn't load the book on my</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">very limited laptop. The method = number will do fine.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">MoonMan</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">---------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Technet Mail List provided as a free = service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To unsubscribe, send a message to = [log in to unmask] with following text in</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">the BODY (NOT the subject field): = SIGNOFF Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To temporarily halt delivery of = Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To receive ONE mailing per day of all = the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Search previous postings at: = www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail = Archives</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Please visit IPC web site <A = HREF=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A> for = additional</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">information, or contact Keach = Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">---------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------</FONT> </P> </UL></UL> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CF38.BA12D880-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:28:31 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Dieselberg, Ron" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dieselberg, Ron" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Surge voltages and conductor spacings X-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1CF39.32E99960" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CF39.32E99960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" BB, it was yesterday! Ron Dieselberg Trainer/Auditor CMC ELECTRONICS CINCINNATI [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 13:28 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Surge voltages and conductor spacings Yup, Any information arrived through obsolete specifications is for education of self. I am not implying it is to be called out, it can't be. It doesn't mean the information is not quality, relevant material. Such as the MIL-130 marking spec; excellent marking info as is the 100 spec (Rev C, D and E) especially regarding reidentifying verses revision. Again excellent material. Just because something is retired doesn't make it non useful. Like the MIL-HDBK-454, well OK maybe not the 454. Not to mention the entertainment value in reading the ole spec's... I remember the first issue of 275D like it was yesterday.... BB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CF39.32E99960 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2652.35"> <TITLE>RE: [TN] Surge voltages and conductor spacings</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">BB, it</FONT><U> <FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">was</FONT></U><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> = yesterday!</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Ron Dieselberg</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Trainer/Auditor</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CMC ELECTRONICS</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CINCINNATI</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">[log in to unmask]</FONT> </P> <UL><UL> <P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original = Message-----</FONT></A> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: = [log in to unmask] [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]</FONT>= </B> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent: </FONT></B> <FONT = SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Monday, March 18, 2002 13:28 PM</FONT> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">To: </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">[log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: </FONT>= </B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Re: [TN] Surge voltages and = conductor spacings</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Yup,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Any information arrived through = obsolete specifications is for education of</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">self. I am not implying it is = to be called out, it can't be. It doesn't</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">mean the information is not quality, = relevant material. Such as the MIL-130</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">marking spec; excellent marking info = as is the 100 spec (Rev C, D and E)</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">especially regarding reidentifying = verses revision. Again excellent</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">material. Just because = something is retired doesn't make it non useful.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Like the MIL-HDBK-454, well OK maybe = not the 454.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Not to mention the entertainment = value in reading the ole spec's... I</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">remember the first issue of 275D like = it was yesterday....</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">BB</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">---------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Technet Mail List provided as a free = service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To unsubscribe, send a message to = [log in to unmask] with following text in</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">the BODY (NOT the subject field): = SIGNOFF Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To temporarily halt delivery of = Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To receive ONE mailing per day of all = the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Search previous postings at: = www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail = Archives</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Please visit IPC web site <A = HREF=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A> for = additional</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">information, or contact Keach = Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">---------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------</FONT> </P> </UL></UL> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1CF39.32E99960-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:56:03 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Heat Dissapation through Vias MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, Assuming .062 thick, the spreadsheet calculations on thermal vias .012 [0.3mm] to farside plane using 1 ounce clad plated .002 with .001 holes; with and without solder don't show much difference. Same configuration using conductive hole fill CB100 render same result. Unless your taking the heat somewhere (aluminum plate, copper plate, planes) you have nowhere to conduct it to. There are several PWB substrate solutions. Barrel plate vias with standard plate gives a max thick wall without copper plugging, conductive fill and plate the surface flat, Dielectric solutions such as Thermagon (10X thermal improvement over FR4 and the like). But, you still need to conduct the heat to chassis. As to the suggested assembly procedure, it may work but not on all cases. In the RF configurations I am familiar with there is a plane farside that interfaces with hardware and that flatness is important. The reflow procedure will render uneven surfaces built up with solder. An added temp excursion always makes me wince. Added assembly time, adding an entire reflow operation, seems to the straw that breaks the camels back (more of a 2 x 4 sized straw). I suggest you have a sit down with your thermal guy, buy him a coffee... but make sure it's hot. Feel free to contact me, we have a full time Thermal Engineer on board that just loves this stuff. Hope this rambling gives you some insight. Boston Brad 781 8585 0783 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:15:04 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Contamination X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Brian Ellis, obviously delirious, states: I agree with St. Doug but ....... **Saint Doug?! Methinks Brian is downwind of the Cyprus hemp incinerator.............. Otherwise a good reply. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:18:09 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Soldermask color X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Grant, I agree with David Albin's post. I have also seen color variations on a board when I have done ion chromatography testing on bare boards. If only part of the board is immersed in the extract solution (isopropanol/water, 80C, 60 minutes) that part gets lighter in color and more of a matte appearance than the part not immersed. It only happens on some kinds of mask, and then often intermittantly. You may consider it a fabricator process indicator. I can't answer the conformal coat adhesion question. Doug Pauls Rockwell Collins --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:39:52 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Dewey Whittaker <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contamination X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain You went from an Icon to a Saint in less than a year.There must be something to this Mountain Dew after all.Other than that,well put both of you.We have the same market as you and must be very aware of the ramifications of any rework performed. Dewey > -----Original Message----- > From: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 6:15 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Contamination > > Brian Ellis, obviously delirious, states: > > I agree with St. Doug but ....... > > **Saint Doug?! Methinks Brian is downwind of the Cyprus hemp > incinerator.............. Otherwise a good reply. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:06:00 +0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: W/S temporary mask! MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="BDY.RTF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could with a quick spot of help hear chaps! Having never used water soluble temporary mask I need some input. I have a problem with some LCC's that have been converted to 'J' leaded and require tinning.. Unfortunately with them being 'J' leaded the sides are castellated/plated and the solder wicks up the body of the component negating the benefits of 'J' leaded compliance. I have tried several methods of pre-tinning having the luxury of a GPD robotic tinning m/c with the benefits of nitrogen but no matter how I try, flux, no flux, N2 the result is the same these suckers wick up like=3D there's no tomorrow! What I have in mind is turning the rascals upside down and dipping them into a w/s temporary mask that will just cover the minimum required then=3D I can tin them & wash them off (they are hermetically sealed). What I don't is the viscosity of the stuff and whether if too thick with it being water soluble it could be diluted to a consistency that would allow coverage between the leads. Any info would be just great. CIA, Iain. ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:08:20 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Graham Collins <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Graham Collins <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contamination (no tech content) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Doug Pauls as an icon? Click on the mountain dew image to get help with = contamination problems? Now that's the kind of desktop help I need... not = that stupid paper clip! (OK, before I get 20 emails advising me of the pre-xerox / Apple / Windoze = definition of icon, I will agree with Doug as an icon as defined in = pre-computer times) regards Graham Collins Process Engineer,=20 Northrop Grumman Atlantic Facility of Litton Systems Canada (902) 873-2000 ext 6215 >>> [log in to unmask] 03/19/02 09:39AM >>> You went from an Icon to a Saint in less than a year.There must be = something to this Mountain Dew after all.Other than that,well put both of you.We = have the same market as you and must be very aware of the ramifications of any rework performed. Dewey > -----Original Message----- > From: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 6:15 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Contamination > > Brian Ellis, obviously delirious, states: > > I agree with St. Doug but ....... > > **Saint Doug?! Methinks Brian is downwind of the Cyprus hemp > incinerator.............. Otherwise a good reply. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]:= =20 > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases = > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - > ------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to Listserv@ip= c.org: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > = E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 = ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:07:36 +0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Cleaning hiccup! MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="BDY.RTF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Teckies, need a little help hear! I have recently experienced a problem whilst cleaning double sided FR4 dual technology multi-layer boards that had been wave soldered. The boards (4 off) were put into a fully automatic batch cleaner end of day shift which uses a Brominated solvent 'ENSOLV ionic' .and removed the following morning first thing. The cleaning m/c is a vapour degrease system which has a refrigerated coil at the top of the bath, this provides a free board zone above the vapour which forms part of the cycle (draining). =3D20 The cycle time is usually 30 minutes. The problem is that the boards appear to show weave / pre-preg separation across all of the boards leaving the weave visible but not through to the top layer. Around thru' hole terminations the board has clearly delaminated. I performed 100% inspection on another one of the wave soldered batch which appeared fine. I repeated the cleaning exercise and the post cleaning result was the same. =3D20 Two things to note, firstly, when the board was removed after the second=3D cleaning operation the m/c had malfunctioned as the cooling coil had not=3D worked so the free board zone was hot with vapour. What I cannot guarantee is that this did not happen during the first cleaning operation (4 off), I can't say I noticed the boards being hot but I suppose the m/c could possibly have malfunctioned part of the time. Secondly, these boards have been cleaned previously in the m/c but during a shift and removed after the cycle. Has anyone experienced this type of occurrence? CIA, Iain. ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:07:30 -0000 Reply-To: Dougal Stewart <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Dougal Stewart <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Soldermask color X-To: Grant Emandien <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This may be as simple an explanation as the area of sheen being created by the polyester silver halide or diazo film surface during the vacuum pull at exposure, during the bare board fab process. Where there are high spots caused by pads and tracks, the polyester is held off contact adjacent to the feature, and the gloss will be apparent where the film comes back into intimate contact. Normally, you would see this exaggerated more on one side than the other as the normal exposure process uses glass on one side of the frame and mylar for the other. Different hues may be an optical effect caused by the above, or by different thicknesses of the ink, again being thicker off the tracks and pads due to slump. How will it affect conformal coat ? - until you have an understanding of what you have got, you will not be able to understand what effect you will have..... Dougal Stewart email: [log in to unmask] phone: +44 1896 822204 mob: +44 7984 629667 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Emandien" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 9:35 AM Subject: [TN] Soldermask color > Hi, > > We have received PCBs with solder mask exhibiting color variarion i.e. light > and darker hues on the same PCB. The color differences are more prevalent > around vias but also evident on other areas. The light hue has a more matt > finish while the darker hue exhibits a sheen, almost an oily appearance but > is not easily removed. > > Any comments on what it may be and possible effects (for conformal coating)? > > TIA > Grant > > > > > ********************************************************************** > Notice: > > This email transmission contains confidential information which is the property of the sender. The information is intended only for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or distribution of the contents of this e-mail transmission, or the taking of any action in reliance thereon or pursuant thereto, is strictly prohibited. Should you have received this email in error, please immediately notify us by telephone to arrange for return of the documentation comprising this transmission. In no event will Tellumat (Pty) Ltd or the sender of this email be liable to any party for any direct, indirect, special or other consequential damages for any use of this email, or on any other hyper linked website, including, without limitation, any lost profits, business interruption, loss of programs or other data on your information handling system or otherwise, even if we are expressly advised of the possibility of! > such damages. > > ********************************************************************** > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:48:33 -0800 Reply-To: Greg Jones <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Greg Jones <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Books/articles on thermal profiling X-To: Mark Ross <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark: You can find several articles and conference papers on thermal profiling at KIC's site: www.kicthermal.com The bottom line on thermocouple attachment is what ever works. AL tape is the simplest method, and is reliable and repeatable, but does not provide a good method of attachment in some applications, for ex: BGAs, which require drilling a hole through the bottom of a sacrificial board and using epoxy to attach the TC. High temperature solder is the standard method, but must be done cleanly so as not to alter the thermal mass of the component the TC is being soldered to. There is a paper on our site that goes in depth on this issue and provides a complete DOE comparing methods of TC attachment. The IPC guide is also a valuable reference source that contains information contributed by a cross section of soldering experts, equipment manufacturers, and materials suppliers. Greg Jones KIC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Ross" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 8:15 AM Subject: [TN] Books/articles on thermal profiling > Can anyone recommend a book or technical articles on thermal profiling of > assemblies in reflow ovens? There seems to be a difference of opinion on > the correct way to do it. I have heard: > > "Use high temperature solder and solder the thermocouple to the part (great > if it isn't a 0402 or worse an 0201!)" > > "Don't use high temperature solder, it will alter the thermal mass of the > device. Use a high temperature epoxy that is thermally conductive and glue > the probe to the device". > > "Don't use epoxy, it changes the thermal mass of the device, use a > temperature thin metal tape that has a strong high temperature adhesive". > > > Also when it comes to keeping the parts on the board, I was all for a board > being conformal coated to keep the parts from moving, scraping back of the > coating where I needed to take my readings and then run the board through. > I have been told that conformal alters the thermal mass of the product. > > And on and on.... > > Last time I asked for suggestions on soldering books, I was pointed to one > By Jennie Hwang and that worked out great so I am hoping there are some > books or articles and maybe even an IPC spec on how to do this so that I can > ensure we are profiling the boards correctly. Thanks for all input. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:47:36 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Soldermask color MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Grant, Without actually seeing the boards I cannot be 100 percent.... but Passing this around the table it is thought it could be incomplete mask cure from incomplete volatile excursion or incomplete cross polymerization. These can be cleared up with a double pass through a UV tunnel at correct intensity and belt speed. Relative to conformal coating, I have assembled and coated parts of this description without any problems; adhesion, outgas, or otherwise. This would be the nice scenario. A worse case condition is the boards were not completely dried after cleaning prior to soldermask. The result being entrapments being forced out the vias. The final bake (or boiling in this case) is especially hard on tented, plugged or flooded vias will exhibit the "hues" or halo's, worsening to actual blistering. In this condition it is the call of the board shop QA prior to shipping. One "cure" test is cotton swab with iso-al; green denotes cure issue. The adhesion test: 3/4" wide tape pull at 90 deg with force. One last thing, with the decreasing thickness of solder mask there can be an absence or decrease of actual pigment on top of lands (traces, vias, etc). If your discoloration includes flat areas this is probably not the case. Boston Brad 781 858 0783 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:17:48 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Cathy Killen <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Cathy Killen <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Finishes on Metal Chassis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Does anyone know where I could get a standard/specification on the finishes of metal chassis? Cathy Killen Training Instructor The information contained in the E-mail is confidential. It is intended only for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is unauthorised. The views expressed in this E-mail are those of the author, and do not represent the views of Smtek Europe, its associates or subsidiaries, unless otherwise expressly indicated. Please note: It is your responsibility to scan this E-mail for viruses. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:09:15 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Contamination (no tech content) X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Doug Pauls as an icon? Click on the mountain dew image to get help with contamination problems? Now that's the kind of desktop help I need... not that stupid paper clip! **Stop, stop. There are enough people here at Rockwell who "click" on Hillman and I as it is. No need to install us on the desktops (what a nightmare!) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:29:09 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: BGA Solder Ball Shear MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Are there any standards or rules to apply to shear strength of BGA solderballs. What is considered good or bad, etc.? Thank You, Dennis Fall Process Engineering Supervisor Thin Film Technology Corporation North Mankato, MN 56003-1702 Email: [log in to unmask] Phone: 507-625-8445 Fax: 507-386-9269 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:41:41 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Bar-code / printing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all, got a manufacturing question... I am looking for soft-ware that can handle the following situation: Operator scans product and places into box. - Label automatically / manually prints with product bar-code and product description. Operator places label on small box. Operator places box and other boxes of different contents into larger box. - A final label automatically / manually prints with bar-codes and / or list of contents of all boxes inside. The customer & product information would be sourced from a Dbase like Oracle. Anyone have close to this type of system at their facility? Peter Crain Manufacturing Engineering Technologist Substation Automation Solutions General Electric Canada Inc. 2728 Hopewell Place N.E., Calgary, Alberta T1Y 7J7 CANADA Tel: 403.214.4560 Dialcomm: 8.498.4560, Fax: 403.214.4776 Website: www.gepower.com/geharrisenergy/ NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail is privileged, confidential and intended solely for the use of the addressee named above. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (collect) at (1) 403.214.4400 and destroy this e-mail as well as any copy. Thank you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:59:51 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Paul Hanson <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Paul Hanson <[log in to unmask]> Organization: Surface Mount Technology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01C1CF35.31B44A80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C1CF35.31B44A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SIGNOFF TECHNET ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C1CF35.31B44A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>SIGNOFF = TECHNET</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C1CF35.31B44A80-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:06:17 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Vanderhoof, Brad" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Vanderhoof, Brad" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Bar-code / printing X-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, My facility has designed a system to perform similar tasks. This is not an unreasonable project for an in-house IT group or a software integration vendor. Specify your requirements VERY carefully and test everyone's understanding up front or you may end up with an amazing system that does fantastic things; just never quite exactly what you want the way you want it. Good luck, Brad Vanderhoof -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 9:42 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Bar-code / printing Hi all, got a manufacturing question... I am looking for soft-ware that can handle the following situation: Operator scans product and places into box. - Label automatically / manually prints with product bar-code and product description. Operator places label on small box. Operator places box and other boxes of different contents into larger box. - A final label automatically / manually prints with bar-codes and / or list of contents of all boxes inside. The customer & product information would be sourced from a Dbase like Oracle. Anyone have close to this type of system at their facility? Peter Crain Manufacturing Engineering Technologist Substation Automation Solutions General Electric Canada Inc. 2728 Hopewell Place N.E., Calgary, Alberta T1Y 7J7 CANADA Tel: 403.214.4560 Dialcomm: 8.498.4560, Fax: 403.214.4776 Website: www.gepower.com/geharrisenergy/ NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail is privileged, confidential and intended solely for the use of the addressee named above. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (collect) at (1) 403.214.4400 and destroy this e-mail as well as any copy. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:32:46 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: YASQ (yet another standards question) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_1PgBo/wpqKgulEoZ2nmw6w)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_1PgBo/wpqKgulEoZ2nmw6w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Good morning TechNet, Could anybody explain the Bellcore/Telecordia standards in relation to hardware? I have searched the web several times and never found much info on this topic. Dan --Boundary_(ID_1PgBo/wpqKgulEoZ2nmw6w) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Good morning TechNet,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Could anybody explain the Bellcore/Telecordia standards in relation to hardware? I have searched the web several times and never found much info on this topic.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dan</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> --Boundary_(ID_1PgBo/wpqKgulEoZ2nmw6w)-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:45:10 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: BGA Solder Ball Shear MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My rule of thumb is ... shear a ball off (using tweezers and a rocking motion), if solder remains on the component, it's good, if some solder remains and some base metal is present, it's marginal, if no solder remains, it's NG. Not very scientific, but it's a start. Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 12:29 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] BGA Solder Ball Shear Are there any standards or rules to apply to shear strength of BGA solderballs. What is considered good or bad, etc.? Thank You, Dennis Fall Process Engineering Supervisor Thin Film Technology Corporation North Mankato, MN 56003-1702 Email: [log in to unmask] Phone: 507-625-8445 Fax: 507-386-9269 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:07:14 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Lee Whiteman <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Lee Whiteman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Solderability of BGA X-To: "Zweigart, Siegmund" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <795D6BC907F3D511B450000629554AE60CA5E9@RFC1918-Host> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Siggi, I know that TI generated a BGA Solderability Test method, based on the technique described in EIA/JESD22-B102C, Solderability Test Method. They used a reflow soldering oven to perform the test and a blank ceramic card. You can get a description of the test method from TI's website. I tried it with a SMT rework station, using a glass slide. I found that you could achieve the same type of results with the rework station as with the reflow oven and ceramic card. Give me a call off line some time. Hope this helps. Good Luck. Lee Whiteman Senior Manufacturing Engineer E-Mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Ph: (610) 362-1200 x208 Fax: (610) 362-1290 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Zweigart, Siegmund > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 4:03 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Solderability of BGA > > > Hello > > I am looking for some documents about solderability tests for BGA s with > eutectik balls. Can anybody help me in this subject? > We think that the BGA- Balls were touched by fingers and the > solderiability > is significant reduced. > How can we analyse the component for fingerprints? We are thinking of > looking for NaCl. > Has anybody another idea? > > Siggi > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:23:56 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Liviu Jurjica <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Liviu Jurjica <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Bar-code / printing X-To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Peter, hi I used to work (some 2 years back), with Loftware's LLMWin. Go to: http://www.loftware.com/product.htm Printers: Intermec and Zebra. Can give you more detailes if needed. Kind Regards ============================== Liviu Jurjica (416) 604-2894 [log in to unmask] http://www.topengineering.com ============================== -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] To: [log in to unmask] Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:41:41 -0500 Subject: [TN] Bar-code / printing > Hi all, got a manufacturing question... > > I am looking for soft-ware that can handle the following situation: > > Operator scans product and places into box. - Label automatically / > manually > prints with product bar-code and product description. Operator places > label > on small box. > > Operator places box and other boxes of different contents into larger > box. - > A final label automatically / manually prints with bar-codes and / or > list > of contents of all boxes inside. > > The customer & product information would be sourced from a Dbase like > Oracle. > > Anyone have close to this type of system at their facility? > > > Peter Crain > Manufacturing Engineering Technologist > > Substation Automation Solutions > General Electric Canada Inc. > 2728 Hopewell Place N.E., Calgary, Alberta T1Y 7J7 CANADA > Tel: 403.214.4560 Dialcomm: 8.498.4560, Fax: 403.214.4776 > Website: www.gepower.com/geharrisenergy/ > > NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail is privileged, > confidential > and intended solely for the use of the addressee named above. If the > reader > of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > that > any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me > immediately by telephone (collect) at (1) 403.214.4400 and destroy this > e-mail as well as any copy. Thank you. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text > in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for > additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:48:01 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: YASQ (yet another standards question) X-To: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01C1CF4C.AFFC82B0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C1CF4C.AFFC82B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dan, I realize this does not answer your question; however, some would say = Bellcore/Telcordia standards do not relate to anything ((( chuckling as = it has been a very long day ))) Franklin ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dan R. Johnson=20 To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 12:32 PM Subject: [TN] YASQ (yet another standards question) Good morning TechNet, =20 Could anybody explain the Bellcore/Telecordia standards in relation to = hardware? I have searched the web several times and never found much = info on this topic. =20 Dan ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C1CF4C.AFFC82B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I realize this does not answer your = question;=20 however, some would say Bellcore/Telcordia standards do not relate to = anything=20 ((( chuckling as it has been a very long day )))</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Franklin</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" [log in to unmask]>Dan R. = Johnson</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=20 [log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 19, 2002 = 12:32=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TN] YASQ (yet another = standards=20 question)</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good morning TechNet,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Could anybody explain the = Bellcore/Telecordia=20 standards in relation to hardware? I have searched the web = several times=20 and never found much info on this topic.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>Dan</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C1CF4C.AFFC82B0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:48:38 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Misner, Bruce" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Misner, Bruce" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Conformal Coating BGA's My question of the day: Is anyone conformal coating (not parylene) plastic BGA's on FR-4 in Hi-Rel applications (aircraft; -20 to +71C ambient operating temperature requirement) without benefit of an underfil? If yes, has entrapped air been a major issue? Anyone care to comment on this approach? Regards, Bruce Misner --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:50:23 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Subject: ESD Smocks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_DC817A89.65046990" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_DC817A89.65046990 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline My company has considered changing to an ESD smock that the operator can = take home. Supposedly the smock can be washed regularly w/o bleach and = also dried with fabric softeners. The smock is good for 50-100 washes. = Something sounds wrong here. Is anyone else out there using smocks like = this, likes/dislikes, etc.? TIA Kathy =20 --=_DC817A89.65046990 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px"> <DIV>My company has considered changing to an ESD smock that the operator can take home. Supposedly the smock can be washed regularly w/o bleach and also dried with fabric softeners. The smock is good for 50-100 washes. Something sounds wrong here. Is anyone else out there using smocks like this, likes/dislikes, etc.?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>TIA</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML> --=_DC817A89.65046990-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:04:41 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Cross-sectioning question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" TechNetters, I have a two fine fellows who work for me who come from different backgrounds. With regards to cross-sectioning solder joints, one is used to providing his customers with a metallurgical description of the metal in the joint. He says it is important to describe the number and size of tin and lead dendrites, grain size, lamellar or otherwise general structure, etc. The other says this is not necessary. Both of course agree on fillet size, shape, cracks, voids, presence/absence/thickness of intermetallic. Now I agree that grain size is not going to give you much, since solid room temperature solder is close enough to its melting point that the grain size will change within a few months anyways. But what about the rest? regards, Bev Christian Research in Motion --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:40:44 -0500 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Leo Lambert <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Looking for Comments and Thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello techneters: An interesting question came up this week in one of our training classes and I thought that perhaps we could get some input from you folks relative to the statement in Section 8.1 of IPC-7711, paragraph 5, which states "Caution: Do not use mechanical strippers on wire smaller than AWG-20, as the strippers may stretch the wire." Being on the committee, I did not catch this earlier but after reviewing some tensile strengths of various wire sizes I doubt this is a valid statement to be used in this document. The tensile strength of 20AWG wire is 34.24 lbf or 15.53 kbf, as determined from the information derived from www.mogami.com/e/cad/wire-gauge.html I doubt that we could exert enough force during the insulation stripping operation to stretch the wire to the point where it would impact its electrical carrying capabilities. If you have the time, also check out paragraph (a) and (b) where the implication or statement reads with the intent that all wires be stripped with thermal strippers, unless they... "cannot be thermally stripped", then mechanical strippers be used. Your inputs on the use of thermal strippers would be appreciated, indicating whether or not they are used extensively or rarely within your facility or industry based upon your background. We don't see many uses of thermal strippers except for stripping Teflon insulation, all others use some form of mechanical strippers. Any thoughts on any of this would be welcome. Thanks for your time and anxiously awaiting your input and comments. Regards, Leo Lambert EPTAC Corp. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:31:55 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Finishes on Metal Chassis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Cathy, Pretty open question.... Chemfilm ASTM B 449 Class 1 (least conductive), 2 and 3 (most conductive) Personally if you want to be conductive I like class 2 (for ESD, grounding, etc) the class 3 offers no environmental protection at all. (I learned that the hard way.) Anodize ASTM B 580 Very nice finish, looks wicked high tech. State color, not requested very often but you can design a cheap cover, deburr and anodize red with a black front bezel. Nothing looks better. Passivate ASTM A 380 Can used on sheet metal but I always use or order washers and that type of hardware with it. Then there's painting... I find a nice pin stripe works wonders... For more info search local phone listings under finish and sheet metal and or sheet steel or enclosures. Good luck, Boston Brad --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 06:53:46 +0200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Cleaning hiccup! X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Iain Ensolv is based on n-propyl bromide which is a very strong solvent (much stronger than CFC-113). Some laminates, depending on their state of cure, could well be attacked. I'm not quite clear about your cycle: were the boards in the freeboard zone overnight? If so, anything could happen, especially if the refrigeration is up the pole. My guess is that even a 30 min cycle is risky. BTW, if your freeboard isn't working, you are risking undue workplace emissions. This solvent is quite toxic (most manufacturers recommend operator exposure levels in the 5 to 25 ppm range. As a ref, the OELs for carbon tet are from 3 - 10 ppm, depending on the country.). It is also ozone-depleting. Brian [log in to unmask] wrote: > > Teckies, need a little help hear! > > I have recently experienced a problem whilst cleaning double sided FR4 > dual technology multi-layer boards that had been wave soldered. > The boards (4 off) were put into a fully automatic batch cleaner end of > day shift which uses a Brominated solvent 'ENSOLV ionic' .and removed > the following morning first thing. > The cleaning m/c is a vapour degrease system which has a refrigerated > coil at the top of the bath, this provides a free board zone above the > vapour which forms part of the cycle (draining). =20 > The cycle time is usually 30 minutes. > > The problem is that the boards appear to show weave / pre-preg > separation across all of the boards leaving the weave visible but not > through to the top layer. Around thru' hole terminations the board has > clearly delaminated. > > I performed 100% inspection on another one of the wave soldered batch > which appeared fine. I repeated the cleaning exercise and the post > cleaning result was the same. =20 > > Two things to note, firstly, when the board was removed after the > second= > > cleaning operation the m/c had malfunctioned as the cooling coil had > not= > > worked so the free board zone was hot with vapour. What I cannot > guarantee is that this did not happen during the first cleaning > operation (4 off), I can't say I noticed the boards being hot but I > suppose the m/c could possibly have malfunctioned part of the time. > Secondly, these boards have been cleaned previously in the m/c but > during a shift and removed after the cycle. > > Has anyone experienced this type of occurrence? > > CIA, > Iain. > > ******************************************************************** > This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended > recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. > You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or > distribute its contents to any other person. > ******************************************************************** > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:58:54 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Guenter Grossmann <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Guenter Grossmann <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Antw: [TN] Cross-sectioning question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bev - Grain size is a bit difficult to characterize since we don't all agree = what the grain size is anyway (or at least I don't agree with many = others). As much as I saw so far grain size depends on the production = parameters and on the temperature, strain, time history a solder joint has = seen after soldering. - Tin and lead dendrites. Quite the same as above. The presence of = dendrites tells part of the story of the production process but who cares? - Structure. Same again. - Regarding the voids I have always problems. They can be an indicator = that something in the soldering process ( parameters , materials) changes = if their size and amount change over time. But it is quite difficult for = me to look at a solder joint and say this is too much voids. Especially if = the customer asks me why. Since the structure ( grain size, dendrites secondary segregation etc.) = are determined by the solidification process you will find various = structures in solder joints on the same PCB because of the different = thermal mass of the components. But, as you said, the structure will = become similar in the joints after a few thermal cycles or due to = diffusion.=20 So I believe that it is most important to show that a metallurgical bond = took place ( intermetallics), that the requirements of the amount of = solder have been met, that the connector caps of some critical components = ( AgPd ) haven't dissolved completely and that no cracks are in the joint = (after soldering). Best regards Guenter . EMPA Swiss Federal Institute for Materials Testing and Research Centre for Reliability Dipl. Eng. Guenter Grossmann 8600 Duebendorf Switzerland Phone: xx41 1 823 4279 Fax : xx41 1823 4054 mail: [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:44:41 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Component taping specifications MIME-Version: 1.0 (Generated by NET-TEL Mailguard SMTP version 4.0.0.22) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Technet, We've had some problems here with badly taped components, i.e. pockets too = deep or too large, but when dealing with these complaints from the factory = floor I found out that we didn't have any specification.=20 Now I've finally got my copy of ANSI/EIA-481-A but it dates from 1986 !=20 I know there are also EIA-481-1 and a -2 and a -3 version. Can somebody = explain which of these specs I should have (and in what revisions) so that = all standard pick&placeable parts are covered ?=20 Thanks in advance. Daan Terstegge SMT Centre Thales Communications Unclassified mail Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:17:59 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Dieselberg, Ron" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dieselberg, Ron" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ESD Smocks X-To: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D009.465F7A70" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D009.465F7A70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Kathy, we send ours out to professional cleaning companies. They also perform testing on the smocks to assure that they still meet the resistivity requirement before they are returned. (MIL-HDBK-263 Para. 3.17) greater than 10 to 5th but less than 10 to 12th ohms per square. Ron Dieselberg Trainer/Auditor CMC ELECTRONICS CINCINNATI [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Kathy Kuhlow [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 14:50 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] ESD Smocks << File: TEXT.htm >> My company has considered changing to an ESD smock that the operator can take home. Supposedly the smock can be washed regularly w/o bleach and also dried with fabric softeners. The smock is good for 50-100 washes. Something sounds wrong here. Is anyone else out there using smocks like this, likes/dislikes, etc.? TIA Kathy ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D009.465F7A70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2652.35"> <TITLE>RE: [TN] ESD Smocks</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Kathy, we send ours out to = professional cleaning companies. They also perform testing on the = smocks to assure that they still meet the resistivity requirement = before they are returned. (MIL-HDBK-263 Para. 3.17) greater than 10 to = 5</FONT><SUP><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">th</FONT></SUP><FONT = SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> but less than 10 to 12</FONT><SUP><FONT = SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">th</FONT></SUP><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> = ohms per square.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Ron Dieselberg</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Trainer/Auditor</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CMC ELECTRONICS</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CINCINNATI</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">[log in to unmask]</FONT> </P> <UL><UL> <P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original = Message-----</FONT></A> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: Kathy Kuhlow [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]</FONT></= B> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent: </FONT></B> <FONT = SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Tuesday, March 19, 2002 14:50 PM</FONT> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">To: </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">[log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: </FONT>= </B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">[TN] ESD Smocks</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> << File: TEXT.htm = >></FONT> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">My company has considered = changing to an ESD smock that the operator can take home. = Supposedly the smock can be washed regularly w/o bleach and also dried = with fabric softeners. The smock is good for 50-100 washes. = Something sounds wrong here. Is anyone else out there using = smocks like this, likes/dislikes, etc.?</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">TIA</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Kathy </FONT>=20 </P> </UL></UL> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D009.465F7A70-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:53:01 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Subject: laminate tolerance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C1CFE4.42545240" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C1CFE4.42545240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good morning techies, Have a problem with laminate supplier(won't mention name at this point) who claims they can only hold +\-.0015 tolerance on .005 1\1 core. I feel this is absolutely absurd but was wondering if someone could=20 save me some valuable time researching the IPC specifications for overall laminate tolerance. (we build to class 3) Thanks for any info. Tony Steinke ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C1CFE4.42545240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#fff8e0> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good morning techies,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have a problem with laminate = supplier(won't mention=20 name at this point)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>who claims they can only hold +\-.0015 = tolerance on=20 .005 1\1 core.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I feel this is absolutely absurd but = was wondering=20 if someone could </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>save me some valuable time researching = the IPC=20 specifications</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>for overall laminate tolerance. (we = build to class=20 3)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for any info.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tony Steinke</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C1CFE4.42545240-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:23:02 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: laminate tolerance X-To: [log in to unmask] You know the basic rule as + or - 10% of overall MLB or individual dielectric thickness, but it must be understood, with thin core materials, it gets a little more difficult for some. The resin content is very high as two plies of 1080, equaling .005" thick, and it does squeeze out. However, the tolerance should't be higher than the rather generous 10%. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:03:46 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Lee Whiteman <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Lee Whiteman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ESD Smocks X-To: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy, I would be very skeptical about using these types of ESD smocks. The ones that I'm familiar with would never survive washing at home. I've seen companies have their employees wear ESD smocks and shoes outside of their facility, wash their ESD apparel at home, and wonder why they have an ESD problem. I'm with Ron Dieselberg. Keep your ESD material controlled within your facility. That's really the only way you can control the quality of the ESD smocks. Hope this helps. Good Luck. Lee Whiteman Senior Manufacturing Engineer E-Mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Ph: (610) 362-1200 x208 Fax: (610) 362-1290 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Kathy Kuhlow > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:50 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] ESD Smocks > > > My company has considered changing to an ESD smock that the > operator can take home. Supposedly the smock can be washed > regularly w/o bleach and also dried with fabric softeners. The > smock is good for 50-100 washes. Something sounds wrong here. > Is anyone else out there using smocks like this, likes/dislikes, etc.? > > TIA > > Kathy > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:54:47 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Simms, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Simms, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contamination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi T'netters, I'm curious regarding the documentation which accompanies re-worked assemblies. Naturally, after all the effort involved in recovering corroded assemblies, the client (or end user) is informed of the special processing which was provided on those assemblies. Can someone direct me to the appropriate IPC guidelines for the documentation and disclosure that accompanies this type of re-work? Regards, Mike Simms Trace Laboratories - Central (ph.) 847-934-5300 (fax) 847-934-4600 1150 West Euclid Avenue Palatine, IL 60067 www.tracelabs.com Notice: This message is confidential and intended for the private use of the addressee only. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:26 AM Subject: Re: Contamination Ted I agree with St. Doug but ther may be some other steps you will find useful. Corrosion products are usually a mixture of soluble salts, like copper chloride, and insoluble ones, like carbonates, oxides and hydroxides, as well as a gunge of the original contamination. The first thing I would do is to immerse the products in a 2 - 3% solution of hydrochloric acid at, say, 40deg C. This will dissolve away the soluble and much of the insoluble corrosion products (a little brushing with a nylon-bristles brush will aid the process). I would then suggest a proprietary neutraliser (of the type used as a rinse-aid after soldering with water-soluble fluxes) containing the disodium salt of EDTA. This will help to chelate any remaining metal salts, especially the relatively insoluble lead ones. Finally, I would give them a saponifier wash, to make sure that all of the original flux residues are removed, followed by a damned good rinse cycle, ending with DI water. At this stage, you can be reasonably sure no corrosion-causing chemistry remains on the assembly and it will be possible to evaluate the damage and whether the assembly is usable/repairable/throw-awayable. Be particularly cautious where there are noble metals: gold-plated kovar leads, for example, are notorious for promoting stress corrosion on bends and I've seen cases where the kovar has been completely eaten away and the component is held on by the gold plating! Oh, BTW, your solder joints will appear matt after this treatment, but this does not matter: they will be perfectly OK from the chemical, metallurgical and mechanical points of view. It is purely a cosmetic dulling. Just as an additional precaution, in view of their history, I think I'd be inclined to give these assemblies a spray of an acrylic conformal coating, but this won't be strictly necessary if they meet the testing that Doug advocates. Brian --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:07:29 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Quick turn fab shop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D018.922EFCF0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D018.922EFCF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab shop. Greatly appreciate any suggestions. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D018.922EFCF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002>Hi all</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002>Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab shop. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002>Greatly appreciate any suggestions.</SPAN></FONT></P></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D018.922EFCF0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:15:14 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Dave Hillman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Conformal Coating BGA's X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Bruce! We are routinely putting acrylic conformal coating over plastic BGA components without using underfill for avionics use environments. We did a fair amount of testing looking both at paraylene and acrylic prior implementation. This work was published at the IPC APEX 2000 Conference in Long Beach (the paper title was "An Investigation of the Effects of Printed Wiring Board Surface Finish and Conformal Coating for Ball Grid Array Assembly"). Can you expand on your concern of "entrapped air"? We have not seen any issues for that topic after 2 years of production experience. Dave Hillman Rockwell Collins [log in to unmask] "Misner, Bruce" <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 03/19/2002 01:48:38 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to "Misner, Bruce" <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's My question of the day: Is anyone conformal coating (not parylene) plastic BGA's on FR-4 in Hi-Rel applications (aircraft; -20 to +71C ambient operating temperature requirement) without benefit of an underfil? If yes, has entrapped air been a major issue? Anyone care to comment on this approach? Regards, Bruce Misner --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:24:51 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Dave Hillman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Cross-sectioning question X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Bev! To quote Sir Doug "Mt Dew" Pauls "it depends on the project"! As a matter of routine we always report the details of wetting characteristics, solder joint geometry, and any "unusual" microstructure. The "unusual" microstructure details would include excessive voids, plating defects, large dendrite structures, nontypical intermetallic phases/layers, and solder joint cracks. We only measure and report on detailed microstructural characteristics if the project could potentially cause changes in the microstructure - such projects like oven profiles of unusual printed wiring assemblies, the implementation of new solder alloys, the use of new surface finishes (either on the component or boards), or multiple/excessive reflow excursions. Good Luck. Dave Hillman Rockwell Collins [log in to unmask] Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 03/19/2002 02:04:41 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: [TN] Cross-sectioning question TechNetters, I have a two fine fellows who work for me who come from different backgrounds. With regards to cross-sectioning solder joints, one is used to providing his customers with a metallurgical description of the metal in the joint. He says it is important to describe the number and size of tin and lead dendrites, grain size, lamellar or otherwise general structure, etc. The other says this is not necessary. Both of course agree on fillet size, shape, cracks, voids, presence/absence/thickness of intermetallic. Now I agree that grain size is not going to give you much, since solid room temperature solder is close enough to its melting point that the grain size will change within a few months anyways. But what about the rest? regards, Bev Christian Research in Motion --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:36:14 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Component taping specifications X-To: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Daan, EIA-481-1 rev A & EIA-481-2 rev A are the latest documents. EIA-481-3 was superceded by revision A to 481-2. The -2 document now contains req's for 16mm, 24mm, 32mm, 44mm and 56 mm and the -1 still has req's for 8mm and 12mm. If you go to www.eia.org, you can be directed to Global Engineering Documents for ordering any of these documents. Hope this helps. Steve Sauer Mfg Engineer Northrop Grumman, Xetron -----Original Message----- From: d. terstegge I know there are also EIA-481-1 and a -2 and a -3 version. Can somebody explain which of these specs I should have (and in what revisions) so that all standard pick&placeable parts are covered ? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:48:09 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ESD Smocks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I saved the threads from May and June of 2000 regarding ESD smocks for = my own reference. Just reviewed them and there are arguments pro and = con for wearing and washing. From the Electrostatic Discharge Association's web page = http://www.esda.org/ This standard is listed for ESD garments. ANSI ESD STM2.1-1997: Resistance Test Method for Electrostatic Discharge = Protective Garments This Standard Test Method provides test methods for measuring the = electrical resistance of garments used to control electrostatic = discharge. It covers procedures for measuring sleeve-to-sleeve and = point-to-point resistance. Hope this is of some use. I have not selected a side of the fence to = sit on. Phil Nutting -----Original Message----- From: Lee Whiteman [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 9:04 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] ESD Smocks Kathy, I would be very skeptical about using these types of ESD smocks. The = ones that I'm familiar with would never survive washing at home. I've seen companies have their employees wear ESD smocks and shoes = outside of their facility, wash their ESD apparel at home, and wonder why they = have an ESD problem. I'm with Ron Dieselberg. Keep your ESD material = controlled within your facility. That's really the only way you can control the = quality of the ESD smocks. Hope this helps. Good Luck. Lee Whiteman Senior Manufacturing Engineer E-Mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Ph: (610) 362-1200 x208 Fax: (610) 362-1290 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Kathy Kuhlow > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:50 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] ESD Smocks > > > My company has considered changing to an ESD smock that the > operator can take home. Supposedly the smock can be washed > regularly w/o bleach and also dried with fabric softeners. The > smock is good for 50-100 washes. Something sounds wrong here. > Is anyone else out there using smocks like this, likes/dislikes, etc.? > > TIA > > Kathy > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases = > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 = ext.5315 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:49:40 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D01E.76E60C4E" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D01E.76E60C4E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You had to put good quality with quick fab. Isn't that an oxymoron? =20 Just kidding, =20 Phil -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 9:07 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Quick turn fab shop Hi all =20 =20 Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality = quick turn fab shop.=20 Greatly appreciate any suggestions. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D01E.76E60C4E Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D929344814-20032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>You=20 had to put good quality with quick fab. Isn't that an=20 oxymoron?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D929344814-20032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D929344814-20032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Just=20 kidding,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D929344814-20032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D929344814-20032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Phil</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mauro, Dan=20 [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 20, 2002 = 9:07=20 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Quick turn = fab=20 shop<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D254530514-20032002>Hi=20 all</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D254530514-20032002>Can = anyone out=20 there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab = shop.=20 </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D254530514-20032002>Greatly appreciate=20 any suggestions.</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D01E.76E60C4E-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:04:07 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: laminate tolerance X-To: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D020.7BA227C0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D020.7BA227C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" IPC 4101 0.127mm (0.005") thickness tolerance:- Class A +/- 0.038mm (0.0015") Class B +/- 0.025mm (0.001") Class C +/- 0.018mm (0.0007") Class D -0.018/+0.030mm Class C is usually inspected out rather than manufactured in. Geoff Layhe www.lamar-uk.co.uk <http://www.lamar-uk.co.uk> -----Original Message----- From: tony steinke [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 20 March 2002 15:53 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] laminate tolerance Good morning techies, Have a problem with laminate supplier(won't mention name at this point) who claims they can only hold +\-.0015 tolerance on .005 1\1 core. I feel this is absolutely absurd but was wondering if someone could save me some valuable time researching the IPC specifications for overall laminate tolerance. (we build to class 3) Thanks for any info. Tony Steinke Private & Confidential: This e-mail message is confidential and is intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. If the message is received by anyone other than the addressee please return the message to the sender by replying to it and then delete the message from your computer. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D020.7BA227C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#fff8e0> <DIV><SPAN class=470374914-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>IPC 4101 0.127mm (0.005") </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=470374914-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=470374914-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> thickness tolerance:-</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=470374914-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=470374914-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Class A +/- 0.038mm (0.0015")</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=470374914-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Class B +/- 0.025mm (0.001")</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=470374914-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Class C +/- 0.018mm (0.0007")</FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT face=Tahoma> <DIV><SPAN class=470374914-20032002></SPAN><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>C<SPAN class=470374914-20032002>lass D -0.018/+0.030mm</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=470374914-20032002></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN class=470374914-20032002>Class C is usually inspected out rather than manufactured in.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT size=2><SPAN class=470374914-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Geoff Layhe</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=470374914-20032002><A href="http://www.lamar-uk.co.uk">www.lamar-uk.co.uk</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=470374914-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=470374914-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=470374914-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=470374914-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=470374914-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=470374914-20032002> </SPAN>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> tony steinke [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 20 March 2002 15:53<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] laminate tolerance<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Good morning techies,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Have a problem with laminate supplier(won't mention name at this point)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>who claims they can only hold +\-.0015 tolerance on .005 1\1 core.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I feel this is absolutely absurd but was wondering if someone could </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>save me some valuable time researching the IPC specifications</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>for overall laminate tolerance. (we build to class 3)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks for any info.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tony Steinke</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> <BR> <BR> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Private & Confidential:</FONT></B></P> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">This e-mail message is confidential and is intended solely for the person or</FONT></B></P> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">organisation to whom it is addressed. If the message is received by anyone</FONT></B></P> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">other than the addressee please return the message to the sender by replying</FONT></B></P> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">to it and then delete the message from your computer.</FONT></B></P> <BR> <BR> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D020.7BA227C0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:11:14 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have one in my general area that is very good, in my opinion. Diversified Systems Indianapolis, IN (317) 299-9547 Jon Moore --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:23:35 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contamination X-To: "Simms, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The process of reclaiming function of a corroded assembly as described would be classified as repair. Repair methods are described in IPC-7721. I doubt that the procedure outlined by Doug is in the document. > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Simms, Michael > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 8:55 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Contamination > > > Hi T'netters, > I'm curious regarding the documentation which > accompanies re-worked assemblies. Naturally, > after all the effort involved in recovering > corroded assemblies, the client (or end user) > is informed of the special processing which > was provided on those assemblies. > Can someone direct me to the appropriate > IPC guidelines for the documentation and > disclosure that accompanies this type of re-work? > Regards, > Mike Simms > Trace Laboratories - Central > (ph.) 847-934-5300 > (fax) 847-934-4600 > 1150 West Euclid Avenue > Palatine, IL 60067 > www.tracelabs.com > > Notice: This message is confidential and intended for the private use > of the addressee only. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:26 AM > Subject: Re: Contamination > > > Ted > > I agree with St. Doug but ther may be some other steps you will find > useful. Corrosion products are usually a mixture of soluble salts, like > copper chloride, and insoluble ones, like carbonates, oxides and > hydroxides, as well as a gunge of the original contamination. The first > thing I would do is to immerse the products in a 2 - 3% solution of > hydrochloric acid at, say, 40deg C. This will dissolve away the soluble > and much of the insoluble corrosion products (a little brushing with a > nylon-bristles brush will aid the process). I would then suggest a > proprietary neutraliser (of the type used as a rinse-aid after soldering > with water-soluble fluxes) containing the disodium salt of EDTA. This > will help to chelate any remaining metal salts, especially the > relatively insoluble lead ones. Finally, I would give them a saponifier > wash, to make sure that all of the original flux residues are removed, > followed by a damned good rinse cycle, ending with DI water. > > At this stage, you can be reasonably sure no corrosion-causing chemistry > remains on the assembly and it will be possible to evaluate the damage > and whether the assembly is usable/repairable/throw-awayable. Be > particularly cautious where there are noble metals: gold-plated kovar > leads, for example, are notorious for promoting stress corrosion on > bends and I've seen cases where the kovar has been completely eaten away > and the component is held on by the gold plating! > > Oh, BTW, your solder joints will appear matt after this treatment, but > this does not matter: they will be perfectly OK from the chemical, > metallurgical and mechanical points of view. It is purely a cosmetic > dulling. > > Just as an additional precaution, in view of their history, I think I'd > be inclined to give these assemblies a spray of an acrylic conformal > coating, but this won't be strictly necessary if they meet the testing > that Doug advocates. > > Brian > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:19:48 -0400 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, bonilla_d <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: bonilla_d <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop X-To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of [log in to unmask] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:11 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop I have one in my general area that is very good, in my opinion. Diversified Systems Indianapolis, IN (317) 299-9547 Jon Moore ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:32:26 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, David Fish <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ESD Smocks X-To: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We've not seen the specific coats that you speak of. You're correct that something 'smells fishy', if you'll pardon the expression, about them. It would be nice to lower inventory. We have three coats per person ... one to wear, one in transit to the laundry, and one returning from the laundry. We find that testing between panels and arms of ESD smocks is oppressive. So, we plan to replace them with cotton lab coats. While it gets us away from the testing issue, we still have to pay the laundry bill. Dave Fish ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Kuhlow" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:50 AM Subject: [TN] ESD Smocks My company has considered changing to an ESD smock that the operator can take home. Supposedly the smock can be washed regularly w/o bleach and also dried with fabric softeners. The smock is good for 50-100 washes. Something sounds wrong here. Is anyone else out there using smocks like this, likes/dislikes, etc.? TIA Kathy --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:45:43 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Rick <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Rick <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: laminate tolerance X-To: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT You can get the laminate certified to class A, B, C or D. For 5 core, class A is +/- 1.5 mils. We typically order class C which is +/- 0.7 for 5 core. We find though that most of the laminate falls within class C regardless of what class you order. Rick Babyak Process Engineer Proto Circuit Inc. 7 Ascot Parkway Cuyahoga Falls, OH 44223 330-572-3400 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:50:10 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_B1EC18D2.BDDCB149" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_B1EC18D2.BDDCB149 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Diversified is a good house. Another to try that has been very good for = us is:=20 Coretec, Inc. 2020 Ellesmere Road=20 Scarbough, Ontario=20 Canada M1H2Z8 www.coretec-inc.com --=_B1EC18D2.BDDCB149 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px"> <DIV>Diversified is a good house. Another to try that has been very good for us is: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Coretec, Inc.</DIV> <DIV>2020 Ellesmere Road </DIV> <DIV>Scarbough, Ontario </DIV> <DIV>Canada M1H2Z8</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.coretec-inc.com">www.coretec-inc.com</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> --=_B1EC18D2.BDDCB149-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:19:25 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Frank Davies <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Frank Davies <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: laminate tolerance X-To: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1D022.9EA39270" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1D022.9EA39270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> Date: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 2:40 PM Subject: [TN] laminate tolerance Tony=20 Our vendor uses .0005 for tolerance range, and can get better if = requested he says. The +\- .0015 does seem a little bit = strange.=20 Maybe look at another vendor.=20 Good luck Frank =20 =20 Good morning techies, Have a problem with laminate supplier(won't mention name at this = point) who claims they can only hold +\-.0015 tolerance on .005 1\1 core. I feel this is absolutely absurd but was wondering if someone could=20 save me some valuable time researching the IPC specifications for overall laminate tolerance. (we build to class 3) =20 Thanks for any info. =20 Tony Steinke ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1D022.9EA39270 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 = Transitional//EN"> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#fff8e0> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px"> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original = Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20 </B>tony steinke <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>>= <BR><B>To:=20 </B><A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>><BR><B>Date:=20 </B>Wednesday, March 20, 2002 2:40 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>[TN] = laminate=20 tolerance</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tony </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Our vendor uses .0005 for tolerance = range, and=20 can get better if requested he=20 = says. &n= bsp; =20 The +\- .0015 does seem a little bit strange. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Maybe look at another vendor. = </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good luck</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Frank<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good morning techies,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have a problem with laminate = supplier(won't=20 mention name at this point)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>who claims they can only hold = +\-.0015=20 tolerance on .005 1\1 core.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I feel this is absolutely absurd = but was=20 wondering if someone could </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>save me some valuable time = researching the IPC=20 specifications</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>for overall laminate tolerance. (we = build to=20 class 3)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for any info.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tony=20 Steinke</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C1D022.9EA39270-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:19:46 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ESD Smocks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_DE8377A4.85E48971" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_DE8377A4.85E48971 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline http://www.desco.com/pdf/tb-2055.pdf This is the exact smock we are considering. =20 Kathy=20 --=_DE8377A4.85E48971 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px"> <DIV><A href="http://www.desco.com/pdf/tb-2055.pdf">http://www.desco.com/pdf/tb-2055.pdf</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is the exact smock we are considering. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML> --=_DE8377A4.85E48971-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:36:34 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop X-To: "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1CFFB.1B9253C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1CFFB.1B9253C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dan, I heard there is this fantastic shop near Dallas, Texas. Called Network = Circuits, Inc. They've been known to successfully turn up to 24 layers = in 24 hours, or less. I highly recommend them. Regards, Franklin D Asbell Quality Assurance Manager Network Circuits, Inc. Irving, Texas http://www.networkcircuits.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mauro, Dan=20 To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 8:07 AM Subject: [TN] Quick turn fab shop Hi all =20 =20 Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality = quick turn fab shop.=20 Greatly appreciate any suggestions. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1CFFB.1B9253C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I heard there is this fantastic shop = near Dallas,=20 Texas. Called Network Circuits, Inc. They've been known to successfully = turn up=20 to 24 layers in 24 hours, or less. I highly recommend them.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Franklin D Asbell</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Quality Assurance Manager</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Network Circuits, Inc.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Irving, Texas</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20 href=3D"http://www.networkcircuits.com">http://www.networkcircuits.com</A= ></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" [log in to unmask]>Mauro, = Dan</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=20 [log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 20, 2002 = 8:07=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Quick turn fab = shop</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D254530514-20032002>Hi=20 all</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D254530514-20032002>Can = anyone out=20 there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab = shop.=20 </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D254530514-20032002>Greatly appreciate=20 any suggestions.</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1CFFB.1B9253C0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:34:07 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Lupita Roberts <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Lupita Roberts <[log in to unmask]> Subject: FW: shelve life of pwb's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am wondering if anyone can help me with the shelve life of raw PWB's. I was experiencing solderability issues and oxidation issues with some boards. I was told by several suppliers that White Tin only has a shelve life of 6 months and they were not warrantied beyond that point. I have been unsuccessful in trying to find data in regards to this issue. Suzanne Foulkes QC Supervisor Inservco Inc. LaGrange, Ohio 44050 [log in to unmask] [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:50:48 -0000 Reply-To: Dougal Stewart <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Dougal Stewart <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: laminate tolerance X-To: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01C1D02F.633BFA80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C1D02F.633BFA80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually, I think you need to approach the issue in a different way - = Everyone is obsessed with nice easy numbers, and it causes you problems. = why ask for 5 mil core - there is no prepreg that will give this = thickness as a 'natural' thickness. What you get is a sow's ear trying = to meet your requirement, so either a resin rich 2116 which will always = be less than 5 mil or a resin starved 2 ply 1080 which will give greater = than 5 mil. Why not ask your laminate supplier to provide data on the = 'natural' thickness distribution of laminate made with 'natural' resin = content prepregs. I found this to be a much better approach when I = started looking at improving impedance control a few years back, and the = 6 sigma distribution for natural thicknesses will be better than they = have quoted for your IPC class. OK so you might end up asking for 117um = or 132um laminate but at least you will have something with a better = tolerance. Break the mould ! (you might require 125um tracks instead of = 5mil to improve your tolerances on track width.......) Dougal Stewart email: [log in to unmask] phone: +44 1896 822204 mob: +44 7984 629667 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: tony steinke=20 To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 3:53 PM Subject: [TN] laminate tolerance Good morning techies, Have a problem with laminate supplier(won't mention name at this = point) who claims they can only hold +\-.0015 tolerance on .005 1\1 core. I feel this is absolutely absurd but was wondering if someone could=20 save me some valuable time researching the IPC specifications for overall laminate tolerance. (we build to class 3) Thanks for any info. Tony Steinke ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C1D02F.633BFA80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#fff8e0> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Actually, I think you need to approach the issue = in a=20 different way - Everyone is obsessed with nice easy numbers, and it = causes you=20 problems. why ask for 5 mil core - there is no prepreg that will give = this=20 thickness as a 'natural' thickness. What you get is a sow's ear trying = to meet=20 your requirement, so either a resin rich 2116 which will always be less = than 5=20 mil or a resin starved 2 ply 1080 which will give greater than 5 mil. = Why not=20 ask your laminate supplier to provide data on the 'natural' thickness=20 distribution of laminate made with 'natural' resin content prepregs. I = found=20 this to be a much better approach when I started looking at improving = impedance=20 control a few years back, and the 6 sigma distribution for natural = thicknesses=20 will be better than they have quoted for your IPC class. OK so you might = end up=20 asking for 117um or 132um laminate but at least you will have = something=20 with a better tolerance. Break the mould ! (you might require 125um = tracks=20 instead of 5mil to improve your tolerances on track = width.......)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dougal Stewart</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>email: <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask] om</A><BR>phone:=20 +44 1896 822204<BR>mob: +44 7984 629667</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A [log in to unmask] = href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">tony=20 steinke</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 20, 2002 = 3:53=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TN] laminate = tolerance</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Good morning techies,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Have a problem with laminate = supplier(won't=20 mention name at this point)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>who claims they can only hold = +\-.0015 tolerance=20 on .005 1\1 core.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I feel this is absolutely absurd but = was=20 wondering if someone could </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>save me some valuable time = researching the IPC=20 specifications</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>for overall laminate tolerance. (we = build to=20 class 3)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for any info.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tony=20 Steinke</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C1D02F.633BFA80-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:45:43 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: FW: shelve life of pwb's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lupita, Listen to your suppliers! My previous company had immersion tin as a final surface finish, which I was directly involved and after several months of trying to determine your same question I would say that 6 months is tops especially if you take into consideration if the board you are assembling is multiple pass through wave solder. All of this testing/evaluation was performed using SERA (sequential electromigration reduction analysis) and at the time evaluating the three biggest players Dexter, Omikron, and McGean Rohco. Tony Steinke ----- Original Message ----- From: Lupita Roberts <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 8:34 AM Subject: [TN] FW: shelve life of pwb's > I am wondering if anyone can help me with the shelve life of raw > PWB's. I was experiencing solderability issues and oxidation issues > with some boards. I was told by several suppliers that White Tin only > has a shelve life of 6 months and they were not warrantied beyond that > point. I have been unsuccessful in trying to find data in regards to > this issue. > > Suzanne Foulkes > QC Supervisor > Inservco Inc. > LaGrange, Ohio 44050 > > [log in to unmask] > [log in to unmask] > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:53:16 -0800 Reply-To: Leo Roos <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Leo Roos <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: FW: shelve life of pwb's X-To: Lupita Roberts <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: Although the data is not widely available, white tin does oxidize. It is very dependent on temperature and humidity so storage is always an issue. If the boards are stored at ambient conditions it is very likely that oxidation has occurred and the tin has become resistant to soldering. SnO is pretty resistant to reactivation although it should be possible. You might ask the particular manufacturer of the white tin if they have any suggestion for their particular product. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lupita Roberts" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 8:34 AM Subject: [TN] FW: shelve life of pwb's > I am wondering if anyone can help me with the shelve life of raw > PWB's. I was experiencing solderability issues and oxidation issues > with some boards. I was told by several suppliers that White Tin only > has a shelve life of 6 months and they were not warrantied beyond that > point. I have been unsuccessful in trying to find data in regards to > this issue. > > Suzanne Foulkes > QC Supervisor > Inservco Inc. > LaGrange, Ohio 44050 > > [log in to unmask] > [log in to unmask] > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:56:53 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ESD Smocks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I think Phil is on the right track. Get a couple of these coats and start washing and testing. The only thing you don't have control over is the type of washing your employees will do at home, i.e. temperature, amount of detergent, type of detergent, drying temperature, fabric softeners, etc. I guess you could have each person take your test coats home and wash them, test them and pass them on to the next. There are a lot of variables though. Ken Bloomquist Sr. Principal Process Engineer GENERAL DYNAMICS 9845 Willows Rd. NE. Redmond, WA 98052-2540 425-556-4554 [log in to unmask] www.gd-ots.com -----Original Message----- From: Phil Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 6:48 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] ESD Smocks I saved the threads from May and June of 2000 regarding ESD smocks for my own reference. Just reviewed them and there are arguments pro and con for wearing and washing. From the Electrostatic Discharge Association's web page http://www.esda.org/ This standard is listed for ESD garments. ANSI ESD STM2.1-1997: Resistance Test Method for Electrostatic Discharge Protective Garments This Standard Test Method provides test methods for measuring the electrical resistance of garments used to control electrostatic discharge. It covers procedures for measuring sleeve-to-sleeve and point-to-point resistance. Hope this is of some use. I have not selected a side of the fence to sit on. Phil Nutting -----Original Message----- From: Lee Whiteman [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 9:04 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] ESD Smocks Kathy, I would be very skeptical about using these types of ESD smocks. The ones that I'm familiar with would never survive washing at home. I've seen companies have their employees wear ESD smocks and shoes outside of their facility, wash their ESD apparel at home, and wonder why they have an ESD problem. I'm with Ron Dieselberg. Keep your ESD material controlled within your facility. That's really the only way you can control the quality of the ESD smocks. Hope this helps. Good Luck. Lee Whiteman Senior Manufacturing Engineer E-Mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Ph: (610) 362-1200 x208 Fax: (610) 362-1290 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Kathy Kuhlow > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:50 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] ESD Smocks > > > My company has considered changing to an ESD smock that the > operator can take home. Supposedly the smock can be washed > regularly w/o bleach and also dried with fabric softeners. The > smock is good for 50-100 washes. Something sounds wrong here. > Is anyone else out there using smocks like this, likes/dislikes, etc.? > > TIA > > Kathy > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:10:29 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: FW: shelve life of pwb's X-To: Lupita Roberts <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Suzanne, I think we will need some more info on the "shipping and storage" processes you use. This will influence the "shelf life" more then the product itself. Other questions are: 1. How long do you want to store them? 2. Are they being "repackaged"? 3. What are the shop environmental conditions when they reach the floor? 4. Do the flux and soldering methods match the product build process, materials, and design? and so on just for starters. David A. Douthit Manager LoCan LLC Lupita Roberts wrote: > I am wondering if anyone can help me with the shelve life of raw > PWB's. I was experiencing solderability issues and oxidation issues > with some boards. I was told by several suppliers that White Tin only > has a shelve life of 6 months and they were not warrantied beyond that > point. I have been unsuccessful in trying to find data in regards to > this issue. > > Suzanne Foulkes > QC Supervisor > Inservco Inc. > LaGrange, Ohio 44050 > > [log in to unmask] > [log in to unmask] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:16:59 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contamination X-To: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Guy, Why would this be a repair as opposed to rework? Dan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:40:26 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Smith, Russell (US LA)" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Smith, Russell (US LA)" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Soldermask color MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Grant : I concur with the other comments that to truly identify the cause is = extremely speculative without seeing the boards. However, Stewart most likely hit the mark with the description of the = film contact. This is often referred to as "ferrotyping". When in the = mask is soft, ( usually the result of insufficient tack drying ) under = vacuum the artwork causes the mask surface to flow slightly , leaving = the texture of the film in place of the gloss imparted by the material, = and drying.=20 Sometimes one can see similar results if there is Oxygen inhibition in = the exposure step, this is usually seen as surface attack during develop = , and results in a lower gloss surface with tell-tale marks and patterns = from the developer itself.=20 Without knowing the combination of mask and conformal coat it is = difficult to judge the effects , however in most cases it shouldn't be = an issue.=20 What you might want to do is go back to your supplier and ask when the = last time they profiled their soldermask ovens! That should give 'them = something to think about. Russell Smith=09 -----Original Message----- From: Dougal Stewart [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tue, March 19, 2002 4:08 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Soldermask color This may be as simple an explanation as the area of sheen being created = by the polyester silver halide or diazo film surface during the vacuum pull = at exposure, during the bare board fab process. Where there are high spots caused by pads and tracks, the polyester is held off contact adjacent to = the feature, and the gloss will be apparent where the film comes back into intimate contact. Normally, you would see this exaggerated more on one = side than the other as the normal exposure process uses glass on one side of = the frame and mylar for the other. Different hues may be an optical effect caused by the above, or by = different thicknesses of the ink, again being thicker off the tracks and pads due = to slump. How will it affect conformal coat ? - until you have an understanding of what you have got, you will not be able to understand what effect you = will have..... Dougal Stewart email: [log in to unmask] phone: +44 1896 822204 mob: +44 7984 629667 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Emandien" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 9:35 AM Subject: [TN] Soldermask color > Hi, > > We have received PCBs with solder mask exhibiting color variarion i.e. light > and darker hues on the same PCB. The color differences are more = prevalent > around vias but also evident on other areas. The light hue has a more = matt > finish while the darker hue exhibits a sheen, almost an oily = appearance but > is not easily removed. > > Any comments on what it may be and possible effects (for conformal coating)? > > TIA > Grant > > > > > ********************************************************************** > Notice: > > This email transmission contains confidential information which is the property of the sender. The information is intended only for the use of = the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby = notified that any disclosure, copying or distribution of the contents of this = e-mail transmission, or the taking of any action in reliance thereon or = pursuant thereto, is strictly prohibited. Should you have received this email in error, please immediately notify us by telephone to arrange for return = of the documentation comprising this transmission. In no event will = Tellumat (Pty) Ltd or the sender of this email be liable to any party for any = direct, indirect, special or other consequential damages for any use of this = email, or on any other hyper linked website, including, without limitation, any lost profits, business interruption, loss of programs or other data on = your information handling system or otherwise, even if we are expressly = advised of the possibility of! > such damages. > > ********************************************************************** > > = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV = 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & = Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or = 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases = > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 = ext.5315 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:55:22 -0800 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Jim Axton <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop X-To: "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C1CFFD.BB7188A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C1CFFD.BB7188A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan, We can help you... Jim Axton Corporate Director of Test, DDI -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mauro, Dan Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 6:07 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Quick turn fab shop Hi all Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab shop. Greatly appreciate any suggestions. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C1CFFD.BB7188A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D565314518-20032002>Dan,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D565314518-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D565314518-20032002>We can=20 help you...</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D565314518-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D565314518-20032002>Jim=20 Axton</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D565314518-20032002>Corporate Director of Test, = DDI</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20 [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Mauro, Dan<BR><B>Sent:</B> = Wednesday, March 20, 2002 6:07 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20 [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Quick turn fab=20 shop<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D254530514-20032002>Hi=20 all</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D254530514-20032002>Can = anyone out=20 there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab = shop.=20 </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D254530514-20032002>Greatly appreciate=20 any suggestions.</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C1CFFD.BB7188A0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:24:41 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop X-To: "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Dan, I've used Circuit Center in Dayton, OH with very good results: http://www.circuitcenter.com/ <http://www.circuitcenter.com/> One noteworthy point that I'll pass along is to not use the same fabricator as a "one stop shopping" source. If you're looking for a quick-turn, go to a fabricator that specializes in quick-turn. If you're looking for a small-medium production volume fabricator or a medium-high volume fabricator, go to a fabricator that supports that type of work for the technology type that you are requiring. No captive or independent fabricator can consistently produce all product mix types and all delivery requests without compromise to quality or process control. And remember, everything has a price. Steve Sauer -----Original Message----- Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab shop. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:06:10 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: PGA to SMT sockets... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_cd.14abe3f1.29ca45b2_boundary" --part1_cd.14abe3f1.29ca45b2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all! Got a fresh new beast to deal with that I've never seen before...a PGA-to-SMT socket. When you look at the board, it looks like a BGA would go there, but actually it's a PGA socket that is soldered to SMT pads...this is a fairly dense socket, 50-mil spacing. The history is that the yeilds are terrible, and 99.9% of the time when the assembly doesn't play, it's a solder issue with the sockets. I've looked closely at these sockets, and they're not very precise. The pins are strange too. Each pin is about .145" long, .038" diameter, and have a little .018" diameter, .005" long nub machined into the end of each pin...this is what sits on the SMT pad and is soldered to. All the pins are inserted into a 1-inch square, .062" thick FR4 substrate to form the socket. Go to: http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com To get a look at what I'm about to deal with...I've noticed some coplanarity issues with the pins too. I've got some ideas to try and deal with that. But have any of you ever dealt with these little "jewels"? Got any tips? By the way, these sockets MUST be used, no choice... -Steve Gregory- --part1_cd.14abe3f1.29ca45b2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi all! <BR> <BR>Got a fresh new beast to deal with that I've never seen before...a PGA-to-SMT socket. When you look at the board, it looks like a BGA would go there, but actually <BR>it's a PGA socket that is soldered to SMT pads...this is a fairly dense socket, 50-mil spacing. The history is that the yeilds are terrible, and 99.9% of the time when the assembly doesn't play, it's a solder issue with the sockets. <BR> <BR>I've looked closely at these sockets, and they're not very precise. The pins are strange too. Each pin is about .145" long, .038" diameter, and have a little .018" diameter, .005" long nub machined into the end of each pin...this is what sits on the SMT pad and is soldered to. All the pins are inserted into a 1-inch square, .062" thick FR4 substrate to form the socket. Go to: <BR> <BR>http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com <BR> <BR>To get a look at what I'm about to deal with...I've noticed some coplanarity issues with the pins too. I've got some ideas to try and deal with that. But have any of you ever dealt with these little "jewels"? Got any tips? <BR> <BR>By the way, these sockets MUST be used, no choice... <BR> <BR>-Steve Gregory-</FONT></HTML> --part1_cd.14abe3f1.29ca45b2_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:10:42 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Richard Hamilton <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Richard Hamilton <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ESD Smocks X-To: "Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <D837F165FB909F4595E9E7CE9645F6AE6393BE@HELIUM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed As a process engineer I also try to all ends to make the process as foolproof as possible to help reduce the 'unknown' factors that WILL come up. I believe someone earlier commented that detergent should NOT be used in the smock cleaning process and not to embarrass or slight Ken, but do you see how easily 'detergent' can get sucked into the process. So, the question is, does the employee have enough interest to get a non-detergent to use on this one article, or will it get thrown in with all the rest of the wash using the detergent? I vote for controlled cleaning processes. Now we get to consider the alternate costs and see what path comes out the winner!? Not that I don't trust the employees, I just don't have full faith in ALL humans! Best of luck on this one. Richard Hamilton At 09:56 AM 3/20/02 -0800, you wrote: >I think Phil is on the right track. Get a couple of these coats and start >washing and testing. The only thing you don't have control over is the type >of washing your employees will do at home, i.e. temperature, amount of >detergent, type of detergent, drying temperature, fabric softeners, etc. I >guess you could have each person take your test coats home and wash them, >test them and pass them on to the next. There are a lot of variables though. > >Ken Bloomquist >Sr. Principal Process Engineer --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:26:24 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Alan Berni <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Alan Berni <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Bar-code / printing X-To: [log in to unmask] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peter, Try http://www.symbol.com or Symbol Technologies, Inc. Canada sales office at 905-629-7226 Good Luck, Alan Berni >>> [log in to unmask] 03/19/02 12:41PM >>> Hi all, got a manufacturing question... I am looking for soft-ware that can handle the following situation: Operator scans product and places into box. - Label automatically / = manually prints with product bar-code and product description. Operator places = label on small box. Operator places box and other boxes of different contents into larger box. = - A final label automatically / manually prints with bar-codes and / or list of contents of all boxes inside. The customer & product information would be sourced from a Dbase like Oracle. Anyone have close to this type of system at their facility? Peter Crain Manufacturing Engineering Technologist Substation Automation Solutions General Electric Canada Inc. 2728 Hopewell Place N.E., Calgary, Alberta T1Y 7J7 CANADA Tel: 403.214.4560 Dialcomm: 8.498.4560, Fax: 403.214.4776 Website: www.gepower.com/geharrisenergy/=20 NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail is privileged, confidentia= l and intended solely for the use of the addressee named above. If the = reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately by telephone (collect) at (1) 403.214.4400 and destroy this e-mail as well as any copy. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to Listserv@ip= c.org: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > = E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 = ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:40:36 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Chris Almeras <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Chris Almeras <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D04F.7D33B3FE" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D04F.7D33B3FE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Diversified Systems in Indianapolis has a web site www.divsys.com. =20 Chris Almeras DSI -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 9:07 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Quick turn fab shop Hi all =20 =20 Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab shop.=20 Greatly appreciate any suggestions. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D04F.7D33B3FE Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D618113920-20032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Diversified Systems in Indianapolis has a web site <A=20 href=3D"http://www.divsys.com">www.divsys.com</A>.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D618113920-20032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D618113920-20032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Chris=20 Almeras</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D618113920-20032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>DSI</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mauro, Dan=20 [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 20, 2002 = 9:07=20 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Quick turn = fab=20 shop<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D254530514-20032002>Hi=20 all</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D254530514-20032002>Can = anyone out=20 there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab = shop.=20 </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D254530514-20032002>Greatly appreciate=20 any suggestions.</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D04F.7D33B3FE-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:55:01 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: PGA to SMT sockets... X-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D051.80A0BA30" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D051.80A0BA30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Steve, I would suggest you stay away from that type of socket. Try Advanced Interconnect. Their socket has balls instead of machined pins. Tends to work a lot better for us. We use them when we know a die will be respinning and we want to try a few new ones out quickly before we place a whole lot of BGA's directly to a PCB. As far as reflow profile......... we use the same as what the board normally has if we are going to place say 10 - 20 of the sockets. As far a pad size. We use the same dia pad as the ball. We use Circuit Tech (Jeff Ferry's place) to place the socket for us in small lots or quick turn. We also use them to mount the new BGA to the adapter that will plug into the socket. Hope this helps, Kerry -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 3:06 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] PGA to SMT sockets... Hi all! Got a fresh new beast to deal with that I've never seen before...a PGA-to-SMT socket. When you look at the board, it looks like a BGA would go there, but actually it's a PGA socket that is soldered to SMT pads...this is a fairly dense socket, 50-mil spacing. The history is that the yeilds are terrible, and 99.9% of the time when the assembly doesn't play, it's a solder issue with the sockets. I've looked closely at these sockets, and they're not very precise. The pins are strange too. Each pin is about .145" long, .038" diameter, and have a little .018" diameter, .005" long nub machined into the end of each pin...this is what sits on the SMT pad and is soldered to. All the pins are inserted into a 1-inch square, .062" thick FR4 substrate to form the socket. Go to: http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com To get a look at what I'm about to deal with...I've noticed some coplanarity issues with the pins too. I've got some ideas to try and deal with that. But have any of you ever dealt with these little "jewels"? Got any tips? By the way, these sockets MUST be used, no choice... -Steve Gregory- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D051.80A0BA30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=810475620-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi Steve,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=810475620-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I would suggest you stay away from that type of socket. Try Advanced Interconnect. Their socket has balls instead of machined pins. Tends to work a lot better for us.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=810475620-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We use them when we know a die will be respinning and we want to try a few new ones out quickly before we place a whole lot of BGA's directly to a PCB. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=810475620-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>As far as reflow profile......... we use the same as what the board normally has if we are going to place say 10 - 20 of the sockets.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=810475620-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>As far a pad size. We use the same dia pad as the ball.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=810475620-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We use Circuit Tech (Jeff Ferry's place) to place the socket for us in small lots or quick turn. We also use them to mount the new BGA to the adapter that will plug into the socket.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=810475620-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hope this helps,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=810475620-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Kerry</FONT> </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=810475620-20032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 20, 2002 3:06 PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] PGA to SMT sockets...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>Hi all! <BR><BR>Got a fresh new beast to deal with that I've never seen before...a PGA-to-SMT socket. When you look at the board, it looks like a BGA would go there, but actually <BR>it's a PGA socket that is soldered to SMT pads...this is a fairly dense socket, 50-mil spacing. The history is that the yeilds are terrible, and 99.9% of the time when the assembly doesn't play, it's a solder issue with the sockets. <BR><BR>I've looked closely at these sockets, and they're not very precise. The pins are strange too. Each pin is about .145" long, .038" diameter, and have a little .018" diameter, .005" long nub machined into the end of each pin...this is what sits on the SMT pad and is soldered to. All the pins are inserted into a 1-inch square, .062" thick FR4 substrate to form the socket. Go to: <BR><BR>http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com <BR><BR>To get a look at what I'm about to deal with...I've noticed some coplanarity issues with the pins too. I've got some ideas to try and deal with that. But have any of you ever dealt with these little "jewels"? Got any tips? <BR><BR>By the way, these sockets MUST be used, no choice... <BR><BR>-Steve Gregory-</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D051.80A0BA30-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:00:39 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Scott Kauling <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Scott Kauling <[log in to unmask]> Organization: Tri-onics, Inc. Subject: Card Edge Connector We are inserting a backplane board with gold fingers into a mother board with three connectors to accept the gold fingers. Is anyone out there that has heard of, or is using some sort of lubricant to insert boards into such connectors? If you are what are you using? SCOTT --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:09:23 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: PWB PACKAGING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Technet, here's a simple question... What are your requirements for packaging PWBs when shipped from your board supplier? We require that boards are individually wrapped in corrosion inhibiting paper, then placed in a zip-lock ESD bag. Multiple sealed bags containing the individual boards then get placed in another sealable bag along with a desiccant and humidity indicator, then sealed. Is this asking for too much? Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:41:21 -0500 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Gerard O'Brien <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: FW: shelve life of pwb's X-To: Lupita Roberts <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Suzanne - as part of a long term real time shelf, I have tested quite a few of the white tins out there. In all cases the solderability has easily passed the six months shelf life - in one case the test group is over 700 days on a shelf in my lab with no protection and still soldering. It should be noted that these samples when manufactured did not have any Stannic Oxide present (as measured by SERA)in the deposit, one of the major causes for solderability problems with this type of surface finish, similarly the presence of sulfur from the catalyst breakdown was also not present. So to cut to the chase - you will have no problems with 6 months shelf life for immersion tin (under normal board storage conditions) if the deposit is "clean".If you have stannic oxide present or sulfur then its all over. Regards Gerard O'Brien Photocircuits Corporation -----Original Message----- From: Lupita Roberts [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:34 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] FW: shelve life of pwb's I am wondering if anyone can help me with the shelve life of raw PWB's. I was experiencing solderability issues and oxidation issues with some boards. I was told by several suppliers that White Tin only has a shelve life of 6 months and they were not warrantied beyond that point. I have been unsuccessful in trying to find data in regards to this issue. Suzanne Foulkes QC Supervisor Inservco Inc. LaGrange, Ohio 44050 [log in to unmask] [log in to unmask] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:36:50 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Steve makes some good points (must that good Navy training). Another thing to find out is what their cleaning process is. I have seen boards from several quick-turn prototype houses and one of the points they shortcut to save time is post-HASL or post-plating cleaning. Warning flags should be cleaning with water only. Red warning flags if using tap water. Neon glowing red warning flags if cold tap water. You get the idea. Also look at the flow rates through the cleaning process. 4-8 feet per minute good. 20 feet per minute, be alarmed. They might be optimized for these flow rates, but color me skeptical. One quick test you can do to see if they gave you a cheap solder mask. Take two boards, scrap from the same run is OK. Run one through your ionic cleanliness tester (or ion chromatography if you have it). Run the second scrap over the wave solder with no flux added and do the same test. If you see dramatically higher ionic readings in the second sample, the mask likely has absorbed residues you don't want. If you are doing engineering builds, you may be tuning your circuits around the parasitic values represented by those residues, that won't appear in good production boards. It has happened (errr, elsewhere of course). Doug Pauls Rockwell Collins --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:04:31 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Contamination X-To: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Techies, I know this to be a late posting but, according to the gospel of St Brian of Cyprus - be careful with your bristles! Regards Graham Naisbitt [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Concoat Limited Alasan House, Albany Park Camberley GU16 7PH - UK www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk> Phone: +44 1276 691100 Fax: +44 1276 691227 Mobile: +44 79 6858 2121 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Brian Ellis > Sent: 19 March 2002 08:26 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Contamination > > > Ted > > I agree with St. Doug but ther may be some other steps you will find > useful. Corrosion products are usually a mixture of soluble salts, like > copper chloride, and insoluble ones, like carbonates, oxides and > hydroxides, as well as a gunge of the original contamination. The first > thing I would do is to immerse the products in a 2 - 3% solution of > hydrochloric acid at, say, 40deg C. This will dissolve away the soluble > and much of the insoluble corrosion products (a little brushing with a > nylon-bristles brush will aid the process). I would then suggest a > proprietary neutraliser (of the type used as a rinse-aid after soldering > with water-soluble fluxes) containing the disodium salt of EDTA. This > will help to chelate any remaining metal salts, especially the > relatively insoluble lead ones. Finally, I would give them a saponifier > wash, to make sure that all of the original flux residues are removed, > followed by a damned good rinse cycle, ending with DI water. > > At this stage, you can be reasonably sure no corrosion-causing chemistry > remains on the assembly and it will be possible to evaluate the damage > and whether the assembly is usable/repairable/throw-awayable. Be > particularly cautious where there are noble metals: gold-plated kovar > leads, for example, are notorious for promoting stress corrosion on > bends and I've seen cases where the kovar has been completely eaten away > and the component is held on by the gold plating! > > Oh, BTW, your solder joints will appear matt after this treatment, but > this does not matter: they will be perfectly OK from the chemical, > metallurgical and mechanical points of view. It is purely a cosmetic > dulling. > > Just as an additional precaution, in view of their history, I think I'd > be inclined to give these assemblies a spray of an acrylic conformal > coating, but this won't be strictly necessary if they meet the testing > that Doug advocates. > > Brian > > Ted Tontis wrote: > > > > We have a number of PWB's that show signs of contamination, > > management wants to find out if there is a way to clean the > boards. I have > > told them once the corrosion starts there is no way to clean > the assemblies > > and make them dependable enough to cover our warranty. Some of > the boards > > show slight contamination and some more aggressive, but these > have been in a > > controlled environment for some time. I feel If we where to > send them out in > > a industrial environment the corrosion would rapidly increases. > These boards > > are FR-4 and not conformal coated. Am I correct on this? > > > > Thank you, > > > > Ted Tontis C.I.D. > > Engage Networks, Inc. > > 1320 N. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Drive > > River Level > > Milwaukee, WI 53212 > > PH 414-918-4267 > > FX 414-273-7601 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with > following text in > > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for > additional > > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:09:19 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Conformal Coating BGA's X-To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Any chance I could have a copy of that please? Regards Graham Naisbitt [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Concoat Limited Alasan House, Albany Park Camberley GU16 7PH - UK www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk> Phone: +44 1276 691100 Fax: +44 1276 691227 Mobile: +44 79 6858 2121 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Dave Hillman > Sent: 20 March 2002 14:15 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's > > > Hi Bruce! We are routinely putting acrylic conformal coating over plastic > BGA components without using underfill for avionics use environments. We > did a fair amount of testing looking both at paraylene and acrylic prior > implementation. This work was published at the IPC APEX 2000 Conference in > Long Beach (the paper title was "An Investigation of the Effects > of Printed > Wiring Board Surface Finish and Conformal Coating for Ball Grid Array > Assembly"). Can you expand on your concern of "entrapped air"? We have not > seen any issues for that topic after 2 years of production experience. > > Dave Hillman > Rockwell Collins > [log in to unmask] > > > > > "Misner, Bruce" <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 03/19/2002 01:48:38 PM > > Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; > Please respond > to "Misner, Bruce" <[log in to unmask]> > > Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> > > > To: TechNet@ipc.org > cc: > > Subject: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's > > > My question of the day: Is anyone conformal coating (not parylene) plastic > BGA's on FR-4 in Hi-Rel applications (aircraft; -20 to +71C ambient > operating temperature requirement) without benefit of an > underfil? If yes, > has entrapped air been a major issue? Anyone care to comment on this > approach? > > Regards, > Bruce Misner > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:13:04 +1100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Colin Weber <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Colin Weber <[log in to unmask]> Subject: PBGA & Predicting Stresses X-To: [log in to unmask] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Folks, Could you assist with any information or white papers that can help us determine what stresses can appear at a PBGA , and at it's solder joints, on a 1.6mm-8layer FR4 board. While we are attempting to keep board size as small as practible and position of the 388 pin AMD PBGA, in consideration of several methods of mounting the PCB we are interested in trying to predict the level of stresses that can be tolerated so we can tailor our metal work to allow for them. Also, we have designed to AMD's specification for Solder Mask Defined pads for this ElanSC520 PBGA and I believe this pad design is more susceptible to stress at the joints. Regards, Colin Weber --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:25:53 +0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Juan Li <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Juan Li <[log in to unmask]> Subject: 3/3mil tolerance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As the circuitry width become finer (3/3 mil, 2.5/2.5mil), I would like to know whether the line width tolerance got new specification or not. For PCB, the general IPC standard is 20% of circuitry width. Let's say circuitry width 6mil got +30um tolerance. If circuitry width 3mil, do we still use 20% of circuitry width as the specification. Does IPC have the new specification for fine lines? Or from the PCB design point of view, what should be the general tolerance for 3/3mil and 2.5/2.5mil? Wish your helpful information! Best regards! Li Juan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:04:29 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: PGA to SMT sockets... X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_b9.1d8b4f19.29ca8b9d_boundary" --part1_b9.1d8b4f19.29ca8b9d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Kerry, This isn't a BGA socket, but actually a Pin Grid Array (PGA) socket that is mounted to the board to surface mount pads that looks like a BGA footprint. This socket must be used due to the pin design that will accept a through hole Pin Grid Array device. I've never seen anything like it before...got some new material for my dreams...errr, I mean nightmares...hehehe. Did one experiment today trying out a few things...placed and soldered one, it didn't look too shabby! The real test is tomorrow.... I think I'm seeing some light at the end of the tunnel...or is that the headlight from the train heading towards me? -Steve Gregory- > Hi Steve, > I would suggest you stay away from that type of socket. Try Advanced > Interconnect. Their socket has balls instead of machined pins. Tends to > work a lot better for us. > We use them when we know a die will be respinning and we want to try a few > new ones out quickly before we place a whole lot of BGA's directly to a > PCB. > As far as reflow profile......... we use the same as what the board > normally has if we are going to place say 10 - 20 of the sockets. > As far a pad size. We use the same dia pad as the ball. > We use Circuit Tech (Jeff Ferry's place) to place the socket for us in > small lots or quick turn. We also use them to mount the new BGA to the > adapter that will plug into the socket. > Hope this helps, > Kerry > --part1_b9.1d8b4f19.29ca8b9d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Kerry,<BR> <BR> This isn't a BGA socket, but actually a Pin Grid Array (PGA) socket that is mounted to the board to surface mount pads that looks like a BGA footprint. This socket must be used due to the pin design that will accept a through hole Pin Grid Array device.<BR> <BR> I've never seen anything like it before...got some new material for my dreams...errr, I mean nightmares...hehehe.<BR> <BR> Did one experiment today trying out a few things...placed and soldered one, it didn't look too shabby! The real test is tomorrow....<BR> <BR> I think I'm seeing some light at the end of the tunnel...or is that the headlight from the train heading towards me?<BR> <BR> -Steve Gregory-<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hi Steve,</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">I would suggest you stay away from that type of socket. Try Advanced Interconnect. Their socket has balls instead of machined pins. Tends to work a lot better for us.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">We use them when we know a die will be respinning and we want to try a few new ones out quickly before we place a whole lot of BGA's directly to a PCB. </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">As far as reflow profile......... we use the same as what the board normally has if we are going to place say 10 - 20 of the sockets.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">As far a pad size. We use the same dia pad as the ball.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">We use Circuit Tech (Jeff Ferry's place) to place the socket for us in small lots or quick turn. We also use them to mount the new BGA to the adapter that will plug into the socket.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Hope this helps,</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Kerry</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_b9.1d8b4f19.29ca8b9d_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:19:40 +0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Martyn Gaudion <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Martyn Gaudion <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 3/3mil tolerance X-To: Juan Li <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi Li, I guess it depends on the application, as lines get finer some backplanes have an issue with series resistance. Also if circuitry is impedance controlled you should graph the impedance variation with your min and max tolerance and ensure it remains in acceptable limits for your customer. Kind regards Martyn Gaudion www.polarinstruments.com At 08:25 21/03/2002 +0800, you wrote: >As the circuitry width become finer (3/3 mil, 2.5/2.5mil), I would like to >know >whether the line width tolerance got new specification or not. >For PCB, the general IPC standard is 20% of circuitry width. Let's say >circuitry width 6mil got +30um tolerance. If circuitry width 3mil, do we >still >use 20% of circuitry width as the specification. Does IPC have the new >specification for fine lines? Or from the PCB design point of view, what >should >be the general tolerance for 3/3mil and 2.5/2.5mil? > >Wish your helpful information! > >Best regards! >Li Juan > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: >SET Technet NOMAIL >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > >E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 >ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:18:12 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: PGA to SMT sockets... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this that rare? Whoo Boy! I guess I'm really on my own...gonna figure out something though.... Guess I'm a new guy... -Steve Gregory- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:13:41 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Shirley Xiao <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Shirley Xiao <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Tiny black spots on copper foil surface MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear All: We encountered a problem after develop, etch & strip. Lots of tiny black spots were found on copper surface. We are sure that these tiny black spots are not oxidization.They can not be removed by acetone but is removable by micro etch.Before get result by EDX element analysis, I wish anyone have similar experience can share some information with me. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:18:53 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Eric Dawson <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Eric Dawson <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: PGA to SMT sockets... X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi Steve, I worked on the development of something like this a while ago. We chose pins that could 'float' by about 20 thou (mils) and the ends to be soldered were rounded. The floating allowed for coplanarity issues and the rounded ends allowed a deeper solder joint. We didn't make many but they soldered OK. By the way, the light in the tunnel is probably some blighter with a torch bringing you more work! Regards Eric Dawson > -----Original Message----- > From: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:04 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] PGA to SMT sockets... > > Hi Kerry, > > This isn't a BGA socket, but actually a Pin Grid Array (PGA) socket that > is mounted to the board to surface mount pads that looks like a BGA > footprint. This socket must be used due to the pin design that will accept > a through hole Pin Grid Array device. > > I've never seen anything like it before...got some new material for my > dreams...errr, I mean nightmares...hehehe. > > Did one experiment today trying out a few things...placed and soldered > one, it didn't look too shabby! The real test is tomorrow.... > > I think I'm seeing some light at the end of the tunnel...or is that the > headlight from the train heading towards me? > > -Steve Gregory- > > > > Hi Steve, > I would suggest you stay away from that type of socket. Try > Advanced Interconnect. Their socket has balls instead of machined pins. > Tends to work a lot better for us. > We use them when we know a die will be respinning and we want to try > a few new ones out quickly before we place a whole lot of BGA's directly > to a PCB. > As far as reflow profile......... we use the same as what the board > normally has if we are going to place say 10 - 20 of the sockets. > As far a pad size. We use the same dia pad as the ball. > We use Circuit Tech (Jeff Ferry's place) to place the socket for us > in small lots or quick turn. We also use them to mount the new BGA to the > adapter that will plug into the socket. > Hope this helps, > Kerry > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:28:47 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Card Edge Connector MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi Scott, I'm not familiar with lubricants, but I think you are trying to fix a poor design. Why do you need 3 connectors? It's pretty hard to have the parallelism and the position tolerance controlled for 2 connectors. With three you go from line into plane, a lot harder to controll. If you have an option, have the board re-designed for a single connector that matches the gold finger pattern of your backplane. Just a thought, Ioan > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Kauling [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 4:01 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Card Edge Connector > > We are inserting a backplane board with gold fingers into a mother board > with three connectors to accept the gold fingers. > > Is anyone out there that has heard of, or is using some sort of lubricant > to insert boards into such connectors? > > If you are what are you using? > > SCOTT > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:57:43 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: PGA to SMT sockets... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_D88570F3.56375AA1" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_D88570F3.56375AA1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Haven't seen this but it is very interesting. The copolarnarity of the = pins is scary though. Did you find the difference in the pin gap make a = difference when pasted and reflowed? Is it possible to see a post reflow = xray?=20 Kathy=20 --=_D88570F3.56375AA1 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px"> <DIV>Haven't seen this but it is very interesting. The copolarnarity of the pins is scary though. Did you find the difference in the pin gap make a difference when pasted and reflowed? Is it possible to see a post reflow xray? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML> --=_D88570F3.56375AA1-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:09:56 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: PGA to SMT sockets... X-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D0E2.141A9FC0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D0E2.141A9FC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Steve, Haven't seen this exact socket before, but have worked on a few projects that look similar. Certainly must defer to the "man on the scene", but from this view point, seem like the more solder, the better. If you can't easily add paste to the pads with a screen I'd load up the pin tips with extra solder. If you need a screen to add paste I may have a few to send out to ya. Gooood Luck, Jeff Ferry CEO Circuit Technology Center, Inc. www.circuittechctr.com [log in to unmask] 978-374-5000 Sign up for our Free E-mail Newsletter at: www.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 3:06 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] PGA to SMT sockets... Hi all! Got a fresh new beast to deal with that I've never seen before...a PGA-to-SMT socket. When you look at the board, it looks like a BGA would go there, but actually it's a PGA socket that is soldered to SMT pads...this is a fairly dense socket, 50-mil spacing. The history is that the yeilds are terrible, and 99.9% of the time when the assembly doesn't play, it's a solder issue with the sockets. I've looked closely at these sockets, and they're not very precise. The pins are strange too. Each pin is about .145" long, .038" diameter, and have a little .018" diameter, .005" long nub machined into the end of each pin...this is what sits on the SMT pad and is soldered to. All the pins are inserted into a 1-inch square, .062" thick FR4 substrate to form the socket. Go to: http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com To get a look at what I'm about to deal with...I've noticed some coplanarity issues with the pins too. I've got some ideas to try and deal with that. But have any of you ever dealt with these little "jewels"? Got any tips? By the way, these sockets MUST be used, no choice... -Steve Gregory- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D0E2.141A9FC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=440470314-21032002><FONT size=2>Steve,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=440470314-21032002><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=440470314-21032002><SPAN class=730365913-21032002><FONT size=2>Haven't seen this exact socket before, but have worked on a few projects that look similar. Certainly must defer to the "man on the scene", but from this view point, seem like the more solder, the better. If you can't easily add paste to the pads with a screen I'd load up the pin tips with extra solder. If you need a screen to add paste I may have a few to send out to ya.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=440470314-21032002><SPAN class=730365913-21032002><FONT size=2></FONT></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=440470314-21032002><SPAN class=730365913-21032002><FONT size=2>Gooood Luck,</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=440470314-21032002><SPAN class=730365913-21032002><FONT size=2> <P><FONT size=2>Jeff Ferry<BR>CEO<BR>Circuit Technology Center, Inc.<BR>www.circuittechctr.com<BR>[log in to unmask]<BR>978-374-5000<BR><BR>Sign up for our Free E-mail Newsletter at:<BR>www.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm<BR></FONT></P></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 20, 2002 3:06 PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] PGA to SMT sockets...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>Hi all! <BR><BR>Got a fresh new beast to deal with that I've never seen before...a PGA-to-SMT socket. When you look at the board, it looks like a BGA would go there, but actually <BR>it's a PGA socket that is soldered to SMT pads...this is a fairly dense socket, 50-mil spacing. The history is that the yeilds are terrible, and 99.9% of the time when the assembly doesn't play, it's a solder issue with the sockets. <BR><BR>I've looked closely at these sockets, and they're not very precise. The pins are strange too. Each pin is about .145" long, .038" diameter, and have a little .018" diameter, .005" long nub machined into the end of each pin...this is what sits on the SMT pad and is soldered to. All the pins are inserted into a 1-inch square, .062" thick FR4 substrate to form the socket. Go to: <BR><BR>http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com <BR><BR>To get a look at what I'm about to deal with...I've noticed some coplanarity issues with the pins too. I've got some ideas to try and deal with that. But have any of you ever dealt with these little "jewels"? Got any tips? <BR><BR>By the way, these sockets MUST be used, no choice... <BR><BR>-Steve Gregory-</FONT> </FONT></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D0E2.141A9FC0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:27:48 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Braime, Justin" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Braime, Justin" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: BGA reballing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi guys, I am looking at using the SolderQuik preforms for reballing some BGAs, but I am concerned about the reliability of this process in terms of the number of thermal cycles being sustained by the BGA component. Does anybody know of any studies done on this? Thanks Justin Braime Senior Production Engineer Racal Instruments Ltd 480 Bath Rd, Slough Berkshire, SL1 6BE England Tel: +44 (0)1628 604455 Fax: +44 (0)1628 662017 E-mail: [log in to unmask] ******************************************************************************************************* The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. It is intended only for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in this e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please inform RACAL INSTRUMENTS LTD. immediately by phoning +44 (0)1628 604455 (ask for the I.T. dept) and delete it and all copies from your system. ******************************************************************************************************* --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:56:22 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: PWB PACKAGING X-To: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WOW...And you pay an additional 10% for the boards??? James, It should depend on the application, certainly a standard HASL board does not need that degree of packaging protection, for Entek, immersion tin, etc, this may be feasable. Other considerations are how soon before the boards will be used? You don't need to hermetically seal them if they are headed straight from the dock to the assembly line...you might however, need that degree of protection if they are going to an outdoor assembly shop on some south pacific island...located on the beach, in the summertime... It all depends on the application, surface finish, storage facility, assembler...etc etc etc... Question...your placing the desiccant pack in the outer package instead of in the package containing the board??? Does this buy you anything? I would think the desiccant pack would be more effective in the package containing the board you do not want moisture around...hmmmm... Franklin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 3:09 PM Subject: [TN] PWB PACKAGING > Hello Technet, here's a simple question... What are your requirements for > packaging PWBs when shipped from your board supplier? We require that > boards are individually wrapped in corrosion inhibiting paper, then placed > in a zip-lock ESD bag. Multiple sealed bags containing the individual > boards then get placed in another sealable bag along with a desiccant and > humidity indicator, then sealed. Is this asking for too much? > Jim Marsico > Senior Engineer > Production Engineering > EDO Electronics Systems Group > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > 631-595-5879 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:04:00 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: e-mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I received an e-mail From:Leading Edge Devices ([log in to unmask]) with the Subject: Must see at IPC containing 5 image attachments and 1 untitled attachment. With all the BS viruses going around I immediately hit DELETE. Anyone out there aware of this? Rick Howieson Delta Group Electronics, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:19:23 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Dendrites growth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is conformal coating a good protection against dendrites? I read that=20 ionic contamination can cause dendrites, if a board has ionic contamination, will conformal coating prevent dendrites? Jean-Fran=E7ois Bissonnette V=E9rificateur, Contr=F4le de la Qualit=E9 =C9lectronique Produits et Proc=E9d=E9s Vapor Rail Inc. 10655 Henri-Bourassa O. St-Laurent, Qc H4S 1A1 (514) 335-4200 x2021 (514) 335-4231 fax <<Bissonnette, Jean-Francois.vcf>>=20 WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged and= confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or en= tity named herein. If the reader of this transmission is not the intended r= ecipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or = copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:55:59 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Graham Collins <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Graham Collins <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Dendrites growth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jean-Francois As St. Doug will likely say, "depends". Depends on how much ionic = contamination, what voltage potential is present, and what you are doing = with the board. It's my understanding that a coating may slow dendrite = growth, all other factors being equil, but the only way to prevent = dendrites is to avoid at least one of the holy trinity of dendrite growth = (contamination, voltage, moisture). The best protection - a clean board. If the end use environment is what = is contaminating the boards, then yes - a coating would be a good = protection. But as a bandaid solution, not good. regards Graham Collins Process Engineer,=20 Northrop Grumman Atlantic Facility of Litton Systems Canada (902) 873-2000 ext 6215 >>> [log in to unmask] 03/21/02 11:19AM >>> Is conformal coating a good protection against dendrites? I read that=20 ionic contamination can cause dendrites, if a board has ionic contamination= , will conformal coating prevent dendrites? Jean-Fran=E7ois Bissonnette V=E9rificateur, Contr=F4le de la Qualit=E9 =C9lectronique Produits et Proc=E9d=E9s Vapor Rail Inc. 10655 Henri-Bourassa O. St-Laurent, Qc H4S 1A1 (514) 335-4200 x2021 (514) 335-4231 fax <<Bissonnette, Jean-Francois.vcf>>=20 WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged = and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual = or entity named herein. If the reader of this transmission is not the = intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, = distribution, or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to Listserv@ip= c.org: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > = E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 = ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:57:21 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Peter Swanson <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Peter Swanson <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: BGA reballing X-To: "Braime, Justin" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Justin, A good question. Number of BGA reflow steps: 1) Initial placement 2) Removal from pcb 3) Reball 4) Replacement on pcb 4 temp excursions. When this issue has been brought up before in this forum, I do not believe that a written spec for the maximum number of reflow cycles of a BGA was ever found. The specific part manufacturer might state something... There was a rumour that Motorola specified 3 reflow cycles for its parts, but I never saw anything in writing, and this may be an "urban myth". In the TechNet archives there is an e-mail from Axiom Electronics stating "In all of the parts we have removed, reballed, and replaced, we have not seen damage due to numerous reflow cycles." This was in 1996 tho... (Message no 005489). There may be more info there. It would be important to strictly observe the baking requirements as determined by the moisture sensitivity level of the device. The reflow cycles should all be to the correct profiles to minimise thermal shock, etc. Declaring a commercial interest (as we sell this product), no customer has reported issues to us. I would be interested to hear further views! Regards, Peter -- ========================================================= Peter Swanson [log in to unmask] INTERTRONICS http://www.intertronics.co.uk INTERTRONICS is dedicated to providing quality material, consumable and equipment solutions to the electronics manufacturing and other technology based industries, with the highest levels of technical support and customer service. -----Original Message----- From: Braime, Justin [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 21 March 2002 14:28 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] BGA reballing Hi guys, I am looking at using the SolderQuik preforms for reballing some BGAs, but I am concerned about the reliability of this process in terms of the number of thermal cycles being sustained by the BGA component. Does anybody know of any studies done on this? Thanks Justin Braime Senior Production Engineer Racal Instruments Ltd 480 Bath Rd, Slough Berkshire, SL1 6BE England Tel: +44 (0)1628 604455 Fax: +44 (0)1628 662017 E-mail: [log in to unmask] **************************************************************************** *************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. It is intended only for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in this e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please inform RACAL INSTRUMENTS LTD. immediately by phoning +44 (0)1628 604455 (ask for the I.T. dept) and delete it and all copies from your system. **************************************************************************** *************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:10:26 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Dendrites growth X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Is conformal coating a good protection against dendrites? I read that ionic contamination can cause dendrites, if a board has ionic contamination, will conformal coating prevent dendrites? *In a word, NO, and I can't stress that enough. To get dendrites, you need three things: electrical potential (voltage), moisture, and an ionic contaminant. All conformal coatings are water permeable to a certain degree, some are better than others in this respect. You can count on moisture going through the coating, combining with the ionic residues to form electrolytes. Then dendrites can grow. I had a number of situations in a former life where a client would be told he had ionically dirty boards. They did not want to go to the hassle of cleaning the assemblies and decided to coat over the boards "so that the environment can't get to the contaminant". We told them that it would not work, for the reasons above. But to no avail. 9-12 months later they came back "It didn't work". At best, it only bought them a little time. Doug Pauls Rockwell Collins --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:38:04 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Russell Burdick <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Russell Burdick <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Tiny black spots on copper foil surface Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Check on the conveyor rollers in the equipment. They can and do get chewed up and start to disintegrate leaving marks on the boards. Russ Burdick Process Engineer Prototron Circuits Southwest Tucson, Arizona 520-745-8515 >From: Shirley Xiao <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Shirley Xiao ><[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: [TN] Tiny black spots on copper foil surface >Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:13:41 -0800 > >Dear All: >We encountered a problem after develop, etch & strip. >Lots of tiny black spots were found on copper surface. >We are sure that these tiny black spots are not >oxidization.They can not be removed by acetone but is >removable by micro etch.Before get result by EDX >element analysis, I wish anyone have similar >experience can share some information with me. > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® >http://movies.yahoo.com/ > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: >SET Technet NOMAIL >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > >E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 >ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:04:01 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Ken Patel <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ken Patel <[log in to unmask]> Organization: interWAVE Communications, Inc. Subject: How to secure daughter card...with not lock-in type connector MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Technetters, I have a problem: A small daughter card (2" x 3") is mounted on a mother board. Daughter card has a mating connector (without locking mechanism) along the one of long edge. Other edge of the daughter card is fastened using stand-off and screws to mother board. As this connector is not a lock-in type, any twist to the board can make connector popping out so slightly that it fails during the test. Fastening at one end is not enough and the vendor does not make connector with lock-in mechanism. Hence, looking for ideas as how to secure the daughter card without going through respinning of the fabs. May be one of you might have faced the similar problem. The gap between daughter card and mother board is about 0.375". re, Ken Patel --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:03:09 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Mark Steele <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Mark Steele <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D102.A8843160" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D102.A8843160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Quick, good, cheap. Pick any two... Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 6:07 AM Subject: Quick turn fab shop Hi all Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab shop. Greatly appreciate any suggestions. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D102.A8843160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Garamond><SPAN class=130120718-21032002>Quick, good, cheap. Pick any two...</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Garamond><SPAN class=130120718-21032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Garamond><SPAN class=130120718-21032002>Mark</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Garamond><SPAN class=130120718-21032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 20, 2002 6:07 AM<BR><B>Subject:</B> Quick turn fab shop<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002>Hi all</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002>Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab shop. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002>Greatly appreciate any suggestions.</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D102.A8843160-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:15:27 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop X-To: Mark Steele <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D104.60911600" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D104.60911600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Explain to me what each means to you? Then maybe I can pick any two..... Dan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Steele [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:03 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop Quick, good, cheap. Pick any two... Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 6:07 AM Subject: Quick turn fab shop Hi all Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab shop. Greatly appreciate any suggestions. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D104.60911600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=746591218-21032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Explain to me what each means to you? Then maybe I can pick any two.....</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=746591218-21032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=746591218-21032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=746591218-21032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=746591218-21032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=746591218-21032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Dan</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mark Steele [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:03 PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Garamond color=#0000ff><SPAN class=130120718-21032002>Quick, good, cheap. Pick any two...</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Garamond color=#0000ff><SPAN class=130120718-21032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Garamond color=#0000ff><SPAN class=130120718-21032002>Mark</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Garamond color=#0000ff><SPAN class=130120718-21032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 20, 2002 6:07 AM<BR><B>Subject:</B> Quick turn fab shop<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002>Hi all</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002>Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab shop. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002>Greatly appreciate any suggestions.</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D104.60911600-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:50:31 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Mike Clemente <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Mike Clemente <[log in to unmask]> Subject: 48 Pin LCC PCB Footprint Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone, I need the recommended PCB Footprint for a 48 Pin LCC (Leadless Chip = Carrier). Appreciate any assistance. Thanks, Mike Mike Clemente, C.I.D. Sr. PCB Design Specialist dZinit Applied Technologies Tel: 847-545-8170 Fax: 847-545-8175 Email: [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:49:24 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop X-To: "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D109.1EA38BB0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D109.1EA38BB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" In my mind, if you are doing a quick turn, you are doing it for time to market reasons. In which case you want a board that functions per your fabrication specifications. You also want it on time. Soooo, I always go with Quality and On Time Delivery. I would not want to explain to my boss that I saved 20% on the boards, but they don't work and did not come in on time. At least that is the thought pattern in a start up environment. -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:15 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop Explain to me what each means to you? Then maybe I can pick any two..... Dan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Steele [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:03 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop Quick, good, cheap. Pick any two... Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 6:07 AM Subject: Quick turn fab shop Hi all Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab shop. Greatly appreciate any suggestions. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D109.1EA38BB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=151155318-21032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In my mind, if you are doing a quick turn, you are doing it for time to market reasons. In which case you want a board that functions per your fabrication specifications. You also want it on time. Soooo, I always go with Quality and On Time Delivery. I would not want to explain to my boss that I saved 20% on the boards, but they don't work and did not come in on time. At least that is the thought pattern in a start up environment.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:15 PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=746591218-21032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Explain to me what each means to you? Then maybe I can pick any two.....</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=746591218-21032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=746591218-21032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=746591218-21032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=746591218-21032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=746591218-21032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Dan</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mark Steele [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:03 PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Garamond color=#0000ff><SPAN class=130120718-21032002>Quick, good, cheap. Pick any two...</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Garamond color=#0000ff><SPAN class=130120718-21032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Garamond color=#0000ff><SPAN class=130120718-21032002>Mark</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Garamond color=#0000ff><SPAN class=130120718-21032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 20, 2002 6:07 AM<BR><B>Subject:</B> Quick turn fab shop<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002>Hi all</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002>Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab shop. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=254530514-20032002>Greatly appreciate any suggestions.</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D109.1EA38BB0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:00:51 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: NTC RE: [TN] PWB PACKAGING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Franklin, Where is this assembly shop? I think I need to go do a survey on them to see if they could be our CM! ;-) KennyB -----Original Message----- From: Franklin D Asbell [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 6:56 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] PWB PACKAGING You don't need to hermetically seal them if they are headed straight from the dock to the assembly line...you might however, need that degree of protection if they are going to an outdoor assembly shop on some south pacific island...located on the beach, in the summertime... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:18:22 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: How to secure daughter card...with not lock-in type connector MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ken, Two quick solutions come to mind. You must remember these are "quick = and dirty" solutions for the inventory on hand. To really make these = two boards perform best will require some modifications to the bare = boards. Simple solution 1 - If there is available space drill holes to accept a = tie-wrap. Simple solution 2 - If there is no space to drill, what about self = adhesive "wall mounts" on each board and then a tie-wrap connecting them = together. A less simple solution would be to use some of the board-to-board = supports like Richco DLCBS-6-01 or Richco SP-6-1. This will require = holes in both boards. Just one man's opinion. Phil -----Original Message----- From: Ken Patel [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:04 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] How to secure daughter card...with not lock-in type connector Technetters, I have a problem: A small daughter card (2" x 3") is mounted on a mother board. Daughter card has a mating connector (without locking mechanism) along the one of long edge. Other edge of the daughter card is fastened using stand-off and screws to mother board. As this connector is not a lock-in type, any twist to the board can make connector popping out so slightly that it fails during the test. Fastening at one end is not enough and the vendor does not make connector with lock-in mechanism. Hence, looking for ideas as how to secure the daughter card without going through respinning of the fabs. May be one of you might have faced the similar problem. The gap between daughter card and mother board is about 0.375". re, Ken Patel -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases = > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 = ext.5315 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:25:57 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: NTC RE: [TN] PWB PACKAGING X-To: "Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (((laughing))) Still searching for it... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bloomquist, Ken" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:00 PM Subject: [TN] NTC RE: [TN] PWB PACKAGING > Franklin, > > Where is this assembly shop? I think I need to go do a survey on them to see > if they could be our CM! ;-) > > KennyB > -----Original Message----- > From: Franklin D Asbell [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 6:56 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] PWB PACKAGING > > You don't need to hermetically seal them if they are headed > straight from the dock to the assembly line...you might however, need that > degree of protection if they are going to an outdoor assembly shop on some > south pacific island...located on the beach, in the summertime... > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:32:17 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Rick Thompson <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Rick Thompson <[log in to unmask]> Organization: Ventura Electronics Assembly Subject: Re: BGA reballing X-To: "Braime, Justin" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <FDF2A7D5FB2FD411AF020001021A477102518049@MAILHUB> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Justin, I'm not aware of specific studies, but some manufacturers may have reball information available. Motorola for one has a section on page 10 of AN1231 (http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/AN1231.pdf) that briefly discusses their position (which is that they only recommend it for testing of components, not for production use). Of course, they may have a slightly biased point of view given that they may end up having to support these packages. In addition to the number of cycles mentioned in other posts, note that if you have these parts on both sides of a board you add a thermal cycle. Plus, removal of the residual solder from the device adds some thermal stress as well, so what you may end up with is 5 or 6 cycles. Rick Thompson Ventura Electronics Assembly 2655 Park Center Dr. Simi Valley, CA 93065 +1 (805) 584-9858 x-304 voice +1 (805) 584-1529 fax [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Braime, Justin Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 6:28 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] BGA reballing Hi guys, I am looking at using the SolderQuik preforms for reballing some BGAs, but I am concerned about the reliability of this process in terms of the number of thermal cycles being sustained by the BGA component. Does anybody know of any studies done on this? Thanks Justin Braime Senior Production Engineer Racal Instruments Ltd 480 Bath Rd, Slough Berkshire, SL1 6BE England Tel: +44 (0)1628 604455 Fax: +44 (0)1628 662017 E-mail: [log in to unmask] ************************************************************************ ******************************* The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. 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If you have received this e-mail in error, please inform RACAL INSTRUMENTS LTD. immediately by phoning +44 (0)1628 604455 (ask for the I.T. dept) and delete it and all copies from your system. ************************************************************************ ******************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:43:49 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Dendrites growth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/21/2002 10:24:53 AM US Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: << Is conformal coating a good protection against dendrites? >> Graham's answer is a very good one. In a way, this question reminds me of an advertisement that I often saw in bicycling magazines during my college days. It was for a new type of lock to hold one's bicycle to the parking rack, and it had for a headline "Resists Atomic Bombs". The key being that it was not 100% successful, but it did offer resistance. In every comparative test that I have ever done, uncoated boards fared far worse than coated ones with respect to dendritic growth. Does that mean that conformal coating will prevent dendrites from EVER appearing? Clearly not. My typical tests were 100 hours at 85 C and 85% RH, with power applied, with the acrylic coated boards normally surviving the entire test and the uncoated boards failing in 2-8 hours, depending on the soldering process variables involved. Jon Moore --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:51:25 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Safavi-Bayat Shahed <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Safavi-Bayat Shahed <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 48 Pin LCC PCB Footprint X-To: Mike Clemente <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Go here http://www.emulation.com/footprints/048-LCC10.gif Shahed -----Original Message----- From: Mike Clemente [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:51 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] 48 Pin LCC PCB Footprint Hi Everyone, I need the recommended PCB Footprint for a 48 Pin LCC (Leadless Chip Carrier). Appreciate any assistance. Thanks, Mike Mike Clemente, C.I.D. Sr. PCB Design Specialist dZinit Applied Technologies Tel: 847-545-8170 Fax: 847-545-8175 Email: [log in to unmask] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:56:47 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, JaMi Smith <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: JaMi Smith <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Tiny black spots on copper foil surface MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Shirley, Sounds like it might be very very small pin holes in your resist that is letting in a microscopic amount of etchant. JaMi Smith -----Original Message----- From: Shirley Xiao [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:14 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Tiny black spots on copper foil surface Dear All: We encountered a problem after develop, etch & strip. Lots of tiny black spots were found on copper surface. We are sure that these tiny black spots are not oxidization.They can not be removed by acetone but is removable by micro etch.Before get result by EDX element analysis, I wish anyone have similar experience can share some information with me. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards(r) http://movies.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:37:46 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 48 Pin LCC PCB Footprint MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Our rule of thumb is that the board pad should line up with the component pad under the chip, extending .030" out past the body. Typically, the metalization under the chip would be .050", add .030" to that for a pad length of .080". Pin 1 is usually longer. Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 -----Original Message----- From: Mike Clemente [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:51 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] 48 Pin LCC PCB Footprint Hi Everyone, I need the recommended PCB Footprint for a 48 Pin LCC (Leadless Chip Carrier). Appreciate any assistance. Thanks, Mike Mike Clemente, C.I.D. Sr. PCB Design Specialist dZinit Applied Technologies Tel: 847-545-8170 Fax: 847-545-8175 Email: [log in to unmask] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:58:07 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop X-To: "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=F7qg9I3yCMqE7XyaiksYtEMcvtfpANe9YFnUGC2vICjxywOytfICZEoH" --0__=F7qg9I3yCMqE7XyaiksYtEMcvtfpANe9YFnUGC2vICjxywOytfICZEoH Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline With the pcb biz so slow now, most big shops are scratching for work. you can get 3-5 days turn with competive prices from the big boys, they have the latest equipment and technologies. Get the best of both worlds! Good luck! "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> on 03/21/2002 12:15:27 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: (bcc: Warren Crow/US/I-O INC) Subject: Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop Explain to me what each means to you? Then maybe I can pick any two..... Dan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Steele [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:03 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop Quick, good, cheap. Pick any two... Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 6:07 AM Subject: Quick turn fab shop Hi all Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab shop. 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========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:11:43 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: NTC RE: [TN] PWB PACKAGING X-To: Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dan (looking at snow in the forecast for the weekend) comments. Please, please lets us know when you find them, I'll send my resume. Dan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:40:50 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Dendrites growth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thank you all for your answers. Anyone has a picture of dendrites? -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 2:44 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Dendrites growth In a message dated 3/21/2002 10:24:53 AM US Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: << Is conformal coating a good protection against dendrites? >> Graham's answer is a very good one. In a way, this question reminds me of an advertisement that I often saw in bicycling magazines during my college days. It was for a new type of lock to hold one's bicycle to the parking rack, and it had for a headline "Resists Atomic Bombs". The key being that it was not 100% successful, but it did offer resistance. In every comparative test that I have ever done, uncoated boards fared far worse than coated ones with respect to dendritic growth. Does that mean that conformal coating will prevent dendrites from EVER appearing? Clearly not. My typical tests were 100 hours at 85 C and 85% RH, with power applied, with the acrylic coated boards normally surviving the entire test and the uncoated boards failing in 2-8 hours, depending on the soldering process variables involved. Jon Moore ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named herein. If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:42:52 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Dave Hillman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: FW: shelve life of pwb's X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Suzanne! Solderability of pwbs is a function of the type and quality of surface finish deposited. You will find a wide variation of "responses" on the shelflife of the different surface finishes available. The more you are willing to pay, the better the shelflife guarantee you will find. Rockwell Collins has looked at a number of immersion tin chemistries and we found a wide spectrum of performance (good to bad). My expectations for any pwb surface finish is 12 months of shelflife in controlled storage conditions (75F +/-10, 30-60%RH). I have found a number of surface finishes (immersion tin, immersion silver, immersion gold, OSP, immersion palladium) which can meet the 12 month shelflife - provided you partner with your pwb fabricator. The real key is teaming with your pwb fabricator and having everyone understand your expectations of the surface finish. Good Luck. Dave Hillman Rockwell Collins [log in to unmask] Lupita Roberts <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 03/20/2002 10:34:07 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to Lupita Roberts <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: [TN] FW: shelve life of pwb's I am wondering if anyone can help me with the shelve life of raw PWB's. I was experiencing solderability issues and oxidation issues with some boards. I was told by several suppliers that White Tin only has a shelve life of 6 months and they were not warrantied beyond that point. I have been unsuccessful in trying to find data in regards to this issue. Suzanne Foulkes QC Supervisor Inservco Inc. LaGrange, Ohio 44050 [log in to unmask] [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:50:47 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, peter lee <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: peter lee <[log in to unmask]> Subject: ALIVH PCB In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello technetters, Has anyone had experience with SMT processing using ALIVH type PCB? I am looking for any process concern, paste, and reflow characteristics as compared with FR4. Rgds, Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:10:32 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Dendrites growth X-To: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jean-Francois Yeah verily, as in accordance with the sermon of SIR Doug of Mt. Dew; the use of a coating will at best, extend the time before failure. The Canadian Sage, "Graham of Halifax" puts it so succinctly: "Cleanliness is next to reliabilityness". :-) Regards Graham Naisbitt [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Concoat Limited Alasan House, Albany Park Camberley GU16 7PH - UK www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk> Phone: +44 1276 691100 Fax: +44 1276 691227 Mobile: +44 79 6858 2121 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Bissonnette, > Jean-Francois > Sent: 21 March 2002 15:19 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Dendrites growth > > > Is conformal coating a good protection against dendrites? I read that > ionic contamination can cause dendrites, if a board has ionic > contamination, > will conformal coating prevent dendrites? > > Jean-François Bissonnette > Vérificateur, Contrôle de la Qualité > Électronique > Produits et Procédés > Vapor Rail Inc. > 10655 Henri-Bourassa O. > St-Laurent, Qc > H4S 1A1 > > (514) 335-4200 x2021 > (514) 335-4231 fax > > <<Bissonnette, Jean-Francois.vcf>> > > > WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE > The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally > privileged and confidential information intended only for the use > of the individual or entity named herein. If the reader of this > transmission is not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this > transmission is strictly prohibited. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:09:46 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Flattening a board during assembly X-To: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Rumor has it that we've reached the bottom of the recent economic downturn. That may or may not be true. All I know is that I'm busy enough that I've fallen a few weeks and a few hundred Technet e-mails behind. Maybe I need to introduce my Technet E-mail Backlog Index and see how it corresponds to the other financial indicators. All kidding aside, Hans your "manual assist" process is not advised. I've seen boards with cracked soldermask that were traced down to someone "flattening" a warped board before placing on a driller or router bed. I don't recommend flexing cold boards to remove warpage. > ---------- > From: Hinners Hans M Civ > WRALC/LUGE[SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:27 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Flattening a board during assembly > > Hey Daan, > > Here's a generic dewarp I've used in the past. You or preferably the Fab > house should have an oven large enough to load the panels or boards. If > done properly you won't see re-warp during the assembly process. Dewarp > is > not a board friendly process and I shudder to consider the longer term > reliability issues but it gets them flat when nothing else will. It's > usually better to dewarp boards instead of panels because of stress relief > that occurs at Route. On the other hand a 2 or 4 up panel cuts your cycle > time down considerably. > > 1. Load warped panels into oven. (Keep stacks reasonable sized: ~500 > mils > of board stock or less - 6-10 panels depending on thickness) > 2. Place several Caul plates (that match or overlap panel size) ~50 > pounds > of weight & Use Kraft Paper (Sulfur Free) to protect panels > 3. Bake at 340+ F for 4-6 hours (Material must be at or slightly above > Tg) > 4. Cool slowly to room temp. > 5. Manually assist (Bend & Twist) the dewarp at Final Inspect. (Great > upper body workout on those 200+ board shipments) > 6. Inspect Panels on Flatness (Granite) Table. ("Tap" test the 4 > corners. > If the board's corners don't touch the table you've got more flexing to > do.) > > Hans > > AC-130 Gunship Motto: "You can run but, you'll only die tired." > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Hans M. Hinners > Electronics Engineer > Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE) > 226 Cochran Street > Robins AFB GA 31098-1622 > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > Com: (478) 926 - 5224 > Fax: (478) 926 - 4911 > DSN Prefix: 468 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: d. terstegge [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:48 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Flattening a board during assembly > > > Hi Technetters, > > We've got a batch of boards here that's really twisted (about 1.5 % when > measured according to IPC-TM-650) due to imbalanced design. The customers > is > not willing to change the design, and we discussed with them the > possibility > of using a carrier-frame for flattening these boards while they are > processed through our SMT-line. > > My worry is that this results in unacceptable stress in the solder joints > as > soon as the board is released from the carrier. Fortunately there's no BGA > on this board, but it does have a small QFP and some 40 mm long > SMT-connectors. It's supposed to be a high-reliability military product. > > Does anyone have any data on the effects of such internal stresses ? > Also other comments are welcome. > > Best regards. > > Daan Terstegge > SMT Centre > Thales Communications > Unclassified mail > Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ----- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET > Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ----- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:15:35 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Foil Lamination X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Unless you build only 2-sided boards there has to be prepreg in the board somewhere so the board can't be built with just laminate. If your note is calling out something that doesn't make building the board possible, maybe it was overlooked. And if your board is only 2-sided, I can't see that it matters. The laminate was made using a foil lamination process. It's just a matter of where it occurred. > ---------- > From: > [log in to unmask][SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;[log in to unmask] > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 8:05 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Foil Lamination > > The call-out on our fab drawings states to use copper clad epoxy laminate > FR4 base material. Our supplier in the past has purchased and certified > material to IPC-4101. We have now found out they have incorporated foil > lamination into their process. What type of requirements should we impose > or > verify? > Thanks for your help! > Rick Howieson > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:24:42 +0200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Dendrites growth X-To: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jean-Francois I echo St Doug's NO for all the reasons stated. I can quote another case: a fairly large European company in the telecomms industry made 5,000 street-box demultiplexers. The bare, large, 8-layer board alone plus the cost price of the components came to $8,000 each. Now, by my maths, that is a total cost price of $40 M. Add to that their mark-up. Now, they took a short-cut because their flux supplier made an ionics-rich "no-clean", easy to solder with, and these stupid buggers believed their supplier who told them that they could coat over, without conducting the slightest qualification test. Would you believe it? Natch, in the harsh conditions of street furniture, they didn't last 4 or 5 months. They hardly believed it when their customer -- a large State-owned telephone company, at that time -- returned 5,000 units with a penalty demand for compensation for interrupting a public service of nearly $4 M (5% of the selling price). Real nasty: is your company prepared to take a similar risk? Best regards Brian "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" wrote: > > Is conformal coating a good protection against dendrites? I read that > ionic contamination can cause dendrites, if a board has ionic contamination, > will conformal coating prevent dendrites? > > Jean-François Bissonnette > Vérificateur, Contrôle de la Qualité > Électronique > Produits et Procédés > Vapor Rail Inc. > 10655 Henri-Bourassa O. > St-Laurent, Qc > H4S 1A1 > > (514) 335-4200 x2021 > (514) 335-4231 fax > > <<Bissonnette, Jean-Francois.vcf>> > > WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE > The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named herein. If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:49:56 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: FW: shelve life of pwb's X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've been watching this one and waiting for some one to mention what bit me on immersion tin, a pcb vendor with poor process control. The folks who made the process helped me solve the problem I was having, i.e. non-existent solderability after re-flow. The PCB vendor (no longer getting PO's) was putting the tin down at 1/10 the recommended thickness. A couple of months on the shelf, a trip through our re-flow oven and.... my customer could not solder the assembly to their pcb. So from my corner of the world a qualified pcb vendor is the most important factor in shelf life. BTW the only reason I would consider immersion tin again is the great service and above and beyond the call service I received from the process manufacturer. Dan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:22:28 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: e-mail X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I got it, too. Ditto on delete. > ---------- > From: > [log in to unmask][SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;[log in to unmask] > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:04 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] e-mail > > I received an e-mail From:Leading Edge Devices ([log in to unmask]) with the > Subject: Must see at IPC containing 5 image attachments and 1 untitled > attachment. With all the BS viruses going around I immediately hit DELETE. > Anyone out there aware of this? > Rick Howieson > Delta Group Electronics, Inc. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:27:20 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Solder Joint Mechanical Stress X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Peter It only seems like a "circus".... > ---------- > From: [log in to unmask][SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;[log in to unmask] > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 7:42 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Solder Joint Mechanical Stress > > Was this strength test written into the requirements when the job was > taken > on? 20 in pounds is quite a torque to apply to an electronic component. > Does your customer have any first-hand experience of circus board > manufacture? - it's sounds like "no", or he'ld understand for himself why > it's a bad idea to perform a test like this. Is it intended to be 100% > inspection? > > The process to stick the heatsinks to the BGA's should have been confirmed > as part of a product qualification test, as should the means and method of > testing the adhesion. Properly specified, this process can then be passed > onto CM's or whoever assembles the boards to repeat. > > For process monitoring purposes, to ensure adequate adhesion is being > maintained, batch sampling can be done, but I wouldn't do it on expensive > "live" product - I would load the occasional board with appropriate dummy > components, mount the heatsink and test those. If there's a problem, stop > and review the processes. > > Otherwise, what is the test going to prove? Either the heatsink comes off, > or the BGA does (especially if it's one of Earl's illigitimate TI things), > or they both stay on the board but the solder joints (ball to board or > balls to device or both) have been unnecessarily stressed, which is bound > to reduce working life by anyone's reasoning - by how much, should have > been one of the HALT test results, using a non-torqued set of pieces for > comparison. > > How to change the customer's mind? Ask what qual tests were done and what > results were obtained along the lines I suggested above, and judge for > yourself if they were adequate. If not explain why you think so, and if > he's still adamant about carrying out the test on live product, get him to > sign a disclaimer removing your liability for failures now or later for > any > boards on which this test has been carried out. > > Can't suggest anything else, but good luck. > > Peter > > > > > Carl Ray > <carlr.ray@SANMIN To: [log in to unmask] > A-SCI.COM> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN > Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST > Sent by: TechNet Aero/ST Group) > <[log in to unmask]> Subject: [TN] Solder > Joint Mechanical Stress > > > 03/14/02 12:17 AM > Please respond to > "TechNet E-Mail > Forum."; Please > respond to Carl > Ray > > > > > > > I have a customer who is requiring that I verify the bond strength of a > heat sink that is glued to the top of PBGA. The customer has supplied me > with a torque tool to verify the strength of the bond between the heat > sink and the BGA. I have concerns that testing the strength of the glue > bond may affect the solder joint reliability of the BGA. The tool > supplied by the customer is set at 20 in pound torque. Any ideas how I > can "change" my customer mind? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > > > > > > [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not > the > intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should > not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other > person. Thank you.] > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:08:54 -0500 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: FW: shelve life of pwb's Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dave, As a fabricator I could not agree with you more... Tell us what your expectations are before we send you the boards...not= afterwards...especially not upt to 2 years afterwards (there is a long story behind that last remark that I am sure othe= r fabricators can relate to) Franklin Original Message: ----------------- From: Dave Hillman [log in to unmask] Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:42:52 -0600 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] FW: shelve life of pwb's Hi Suzanne! Solderability of pwbs is a function of the type and quality of surface finish deposited. You will find a wide variation of "responses" on the shelflife of the different surface finishes available. The more you are willing to pay, the better the shelflife guarantee you will find. Rockwell Collins has looked at a number of immersion tin chemistries and we found a wide spectrum of performance (good to bad). My expectations for any pwb surface finish is 12 months of shelflife in controlled storage conditions (75F +/-10, 30-60%RH). I have found a number of surface finishes (immersion tin, immersion silver, immersion gold, OSP, immersion palladium) which can meet the 12 month shelflife - provided you partner with your pwb fabricator. The real key is teaming with your pwb fabricator and having everyone understand your expectations of the surface finish. Good Luck. Dave Hillman Rockwell Collins [log in to unmask] Lupita Roberts <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 03/20/2002 10:34:07 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to Lupita Roberts <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: [TN] FW: shelve life of pwb's I am wondering if anyone can help me with the shelve life of raw PWB's. I was experiencing solderability issues and oxidation issues with some boards. I was told by several suppliers that White Tin only has a shelve life of 6 months and they were not warrantied beyond that point. I have been unsuccessful in trying to find data in regards to this issue. Suzanne Foulkes QC Supervisor Inservco Inc. LaGrange, Ohio 44050 [log in to unmask] [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:22:19 +0530 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Blistering of PCB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Technetters, We are currently running an 8 layer PCB, 1.6mm thickness. In the last run of approx. 400 nos. we found approx. 10 nos PCBs with blisters in some specific areas. In approx. 40-50 nos. the blistering is not there but the laminate has discoloration. Can anybody suggest any possible causes of the same. We are not baking the PCBs prior to processing, but the boards are in vacuum packing and the packing is opened only at the Stencil printing stage. Any suggestions welcome Regards Vinit Verma Flextronics Technologies (India) Pvt. Ltd. 88A, Electronic City, Hosur Road, Bangalore-561 229 Tel: +91-80-852 0022, Ext. 161 ; Fax: +91-80-852-1022 E-Mail : [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:17:54 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: NTC RE: [TN] PWB PACKAGING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, a while ago ( about 2 years ) there was a thread on SMTnet =B4bout a = site in Puerto Rico just 50m from a beautiful beach (at least I hope =B4t=B4was beautiful)... ... wonder if it=B4s still there ... and maybe doing fine ...and = maybe thinking of expanding ... But, be honest, would you really like to work in such a = caribean-dream-place instead of ... mmmh ... oh may be they have this place fit to the given suggestions and it=B4s a quite good climate in there. Leaves at least = the evenings and weekends to compensate for that small little inconvenience during the days.=20 I think Earl knew the place and all of it=B4s amenities ;-) Just dreaming away Wolfgang > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan R. Johnson [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:12 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] NTC RE: [TN] PWB PACKAGING >=20 >=20 > Dan (looking at snow in the forecast for the weekend) comments. > Please, please lets us know when you find them, I'll send my resume. >=20 > Dan >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using=20 > LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with=20 > following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to=20 > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail=20 > to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources=20 > & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm=20 > for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or=20 > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------- >=20 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:25:21 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Dendrites growth X-To: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jean-Francois, you may visit Steve=B4s page http://stevezeva.homestead.com/index.html there still is a picture up showing dendrites. Thanks for his picture service Wolfgang > -----Original Message----- > From: Bissonnette, Jean-Francois [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:41 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Dendrites growth >=20 >=20 > Thank you all for your answers. >=20 > Anyone has a picture of dendrites? >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 2:44 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Dendrites growth >=20 >=20 > In a message dated 3/21/2002 10:24:53 AM US Eastern Standard Time, > [log in to unmask] writes: >=20 > << Is conformal coating a good protection against dendrites? >> >=20 > Graham's answer is a very good one. In a way, this question=20 > reminds me of > an > advertisement that I often saw in bicycling magazines during=20 > my college > days. > It was for a new type of lock to hold one's bicycle to the=20 > parking rack, > and > it had for a headline "Resists Atomic Bombs". The key being=20 > that it was not > 100% successful, but it did offer resistance. > In every comparative test that I have ever done, uncoated=20 > boards fared > far > worse than coated ones with respect to dendritic growth. =20 > Does that mean > that > conformal coating will prevent dendrites from EVER appearing?=20 > Clearly not. > My typical tests were 100 hours at 85 C and 85% RH, with=20 > power applied, with > the acrylic coated boards normally surviving the entire test and the > uncoated > boards failing in 2-8 hours, depending on the soldering=20 > process variables > involved. >=20 > Jon Moore >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- > ----- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using=20 > LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with=20 > following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to=20 > [log in to unmask]: SET > Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources=20 > & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm=20 > for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or=20 > 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------- > ----- >=20 >=20 > WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE > The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally=20 > privileged and confidential information intended only for the=20 > use of the individual or entity named herein. If the reader=20 > of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you are=20 > hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or=20 > copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using=20 > LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with=20 > following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to=20 > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail=20 > to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources=20 > & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm=20 > for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or=20 > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------- >=20 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:36:36 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "KIPPING, Michael (York Rd)" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "KIPPING, Michael (York Rd)" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: PCB exposure to solvents MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi there We conformally coat our PCB assemblies using an acrylic and use Methyl Ethyl Ketone to strip assemblies if they require rework. Has anyone carried out any work on the maximum exposure time you can expose PCBs to solvents? (I realise that it will depend on the laminate materials, component constuction etc.) Thanks Michael Kipping --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:57:11 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Lon Weffers <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Lon Weffers <[log in to unmask]> Subject: esd defect opamp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1D1A1.14C74CB0" Dit is een meerdelig bericht in MIME-indeling. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1D1A1.14C74CB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear technetters, How likely is the fact that an assembled AD844 opamp gets defect by ESD? We are certain that these components were produced in an esd safe process, so I presume there is an esd problem with our customer. We produced about 50 boards with on each board 4 AD844’s. 15 boards have damaged AD844’s on different places on the board. Regards Lon Weffers’ ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1D1A1.14C74CB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <meta name=3DProgId content=3DWord.Document> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 9"> <meta name=3DOriginator content=3D"Microsoft Word 9"> <link rel=3DFile-List href=3D"cid:[log in to unmask]"> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind> <w:HyphenationZone>21</w:HyphenationZone> <w:EnvelopeVis/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} p.MsoAutoSig, li.MsoAutoSig, div.MsoAutoSig {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.EmailStijl15 {mso-style-type:personal-compose; mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family:Arial; mso-hansi-font-family:Arial; mso-bidi-font-family:Arial; color:black;} @page Section1 {size:595.3pt 841.9pt; margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt 70.85pt; mso-header-margin:35.4pt; mso-footer-margin:35.4pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=3DNL style=3D'tab-interval:35.4pt'> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStijl15><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Dear = technetters,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStijl15><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStijl15><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>How likely is the fact that = an assembled AD844 opamp gets defect by ESD? = <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStijl15><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>We are certain that these = components were produced in an esd safe process, so I presume there is an esd = problem with our customer.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStijl15><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>We produced about 50 boards = with on each board 4 AD844’s. 15 boards have damaged AD844’s on = different places on the board.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStijl15><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStijl15><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'>Regards Lon = Weffers’<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStijl15><font size=3D2 = color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-GB = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB'><![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1D1A1.14C74CB0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:07:48 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Steve Owen <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Steve Owen <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Dendrites growth X-To: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Jean, If you want pictures of Dendrites go to www.npl.co.uk/npl/ei Then click on SOLDERABILITY under the heading KEY WORDS. Then click on RELIABILITY. Dendrites are here under RELIABILITY and CLEANLINESS. Good luck Steve. -----Original Message----- From: Bissonnette, Jean-Francois [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 21 March 2002 21:41 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Dendrites growth Thank you all for your answers. Anyone has a picture of dendrites? -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 2:44 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Dendrites growth In a message dated 3/21/2002 10:24:53 AM US Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: << Is conformal coating a good protection against dendrites? >> Graham's answer is a very good one. In a way, this question reminds me of an advertisement that I often saw in bicycling magazines during my college days. It was for a new type of lock to hold one's bicycle to the parking rack, and it had for a headline "Resists Atomic Bombs". The key being that it was not 100% successful, but it did offer resistance. In every comparative test that I have ever done, uncoated boards fared far worse than coated ones with respect to dendritic growth. Does that mean that conformal coating will prevent dendrites from EVER appearing? Clearly not. My typical tests were 100 hours at 85 C and 85% RH, with power applied, with the acrylic coated boards normally surviving the entire test and the uncoated boards failing in 2-8 hours, depending on the soldering process variables involved. Jon Moore ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named herein. If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:25:45 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: PCB exposure to solvents X-To: "KIPPING, Michael (York Rd)" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have used MEK to take multi-layer PWBs apart for reverse engineering purposes. It isn't very fast but it is effective. We have not studied how much time it takes before the board begins to delaminate. Room temperature the solvent is not very effective. Heating improves performance . . . which would be a bad thing from your perspective. > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of KIPPING, Michael > (York Rd) > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 4:37 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] PCB exposure to solvents > > > Hi there > > We conformally coat our PCB assemblies using an acrylic and use > Methyl Ethyl > Ketone to strip assemblies if they require rework. > Has anyone carried out any work on the maximum exposure time you > can expose > PCBs to solvents? (I realise that it will depend on the laminate > materials, > component constuction etc.) > > Thanks > > Michael Kipping --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:29:17 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: esd defect opamp X-To: [log in to unmask] Been down this road, and all others associated with failure modes, mechanisms, effects, and the analysis thereof. Sure, the possibility exists. So do many others. I placed a report/presentation on a ftp site some time back. It included all the analysis I had done concerning GaAs FET amplifier failures. There are about ten or so blank pages where the ESD failures were supposed to go. Aganin, the pages were blank. I had two labs do ESD (both LCD and SEM search), PIND, Acoustic Microscopy, RGA, SEM, EDX, X-section, X-Ray, thermal, mechanical, and all other viable tests pertaining to these devices, in accordance with MIL-STD-883E, and found the failure mechanism to be a single PCB design issue with a little help from just a few suspect prototype components. The component and design issues were resolved and the assembly did as specified. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:34:30 -0500 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: NTC RE: [TN] PWB PACKAGING Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Wolf... So is that what you call your workday...that "small little inconvenience during the day" ~smiling~ As I'm living and working in Texas, I'm still looking for my summer job in Seattle... Just can't seem to get the owner to= open up Network Circuits, Inc WEST. Just don't look forward to Texas summer's in a PCB plating or press area...wheeeww!!= ! Franklin Original Message: ----------------- From: Busko, Wolfgang [log in to unmask] Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:17:54 +0100 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] NTC RE: [TN] PWB PACKAGING Folks, a while ago ( about 2 years ) there was a thread on SMTnet =B4bout a site in Puerto Rico just 50m from a beautiful beach (at least I hope =B4t=B4was beautiful)... .. wonder if it=B4s still there ... and maybe doing fine ...and maybe thinking of expanding ... But, be honest, would you really like to work in such a caribean-dream-place instead of ... mmmh ... oh may be they have this place fit to the given suggestions and it=B4s a quite good climate in there. Leaves at least the evenings and weekends to compensate for that small little inconvenience during the days. I think Earl knew the place and all of it=B4s amenities ;-) Just dreaming away Wolfgang > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan R. Johnson [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:12 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] NTC RE: [TN] PWB PACKAGING > > > Dan (looking at snow in the forecast for the weekend) comments. > Please, please lets us know when you find them, I'll send my resume. > > Dan > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using > LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with > following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail > to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources > & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm > for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:50:48 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Andy Magee <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Andy Magee <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Dendrite Growth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003E_01C1D176.47AAB340" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C1D176.47AAB340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As for the Holy Trinity of dendritic growth, be careful about where you = think the contamination element is coming from. I did some papers on = this back in 94-97. (Electrolytic Metal Migration In Flexible Printed = Circuits) Essentially what we found was that with perfectly prepared = base circuits (no measurable contamination) the application of coverfilm = alone could lead to potential dendritic growth problems. It was entirely = dependent on the resin formulation of the adhesive in the coverfilm, and = you could grow a beautiful set of arching dendrites (following the field = lines) through the adhesive between traces. The problem was that the = adhesive had enough inherent ionics in it to become a solid state = electrolyte when exposed to moisture. The bad news was that the control = in our test was the industry standard at the time, and there were tons = of circuits being made (including for avionics applications) with the = susceptible coverfilm formulation.=20 The interesting thing about this growth mode was that it had a clear = incubation period, followed by steady growth until the circuit closed. = It the circuit was going to fail you knew it fairly quickly. If it was a = good one, no matter how long you left it, it would never initiate = dendrites. Depending on the current you could get the dendrites to act = like a fuse. Once they closed the circuit, high enough current would = flow to blow the fuse, and then a new dendrite would start growing to = replace it. The adhesive in question wasn't fire resistant, and we = wondered if it would ever start a fire. We found numerous charred spots, = but never got one to torch off. I always wanted to invent something that would take advantage of the = solid state electrolyte effect, but for now I'm still sleeping on it. All the best, Andy Magee - Flex Guru Senior Consultant - Bourton Group ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C1D176.47AAB340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3018.900" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>As for the Holy Trinity of dendritic growth, be = careful=20 about where you think the contamination element is coming from. I did = some=20 papers on this back in 94-97. (<FONT size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; = mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D3>Electrolytic Metal Migration In Flexible Printed = Circuits)=20 Essentially what we found was that with perfectly prepared base circuits = (no=20 measurable contamination) the application of coverfilm alone could lead = to=20 potential dendritic growth problems. It was entirely dependent on the = resin=20 formulation of the adhesive in the coverfilm, and you could grow a = beautiful set=20 of arching dendrites (following the field lines) through the adhesive = between=20 traces. The problem was that the adhesive had enough inherent ionics in = it to=20 become a solid state electrolyte when exposed to moisture. The bad news = was=20 that the control in our test was the industry standard at the time, = and=20 there were tons of circuits being made (including for avionics=20 applications) with the susceptible coverfilm formulation.=20 </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; = mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; = mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D3>The interesting thing about this growth mode was = that it had a=20 clear incubation period, followed by steady growth until the circuit = closed. It=20 the circuit was going to fail you knew it fairly quickly. If it was a = good one,=20 no matter how long you left it, it would never initiate dendrites. = Depending on=20 the current you could get the dendrites to act like a fuse. Once they = closed the=20 circuit, high enough current would flow to blow the fuse, and then = a new=20 dendrite would start growing to replace it. The adhesive in question = wasn't fire=20 resistant, and we wondered if it would ever start a fire. We found = numerous=20 charred spots, but never got one to torch = off.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; = mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; = mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D3>I always wanted to invent something that would = take advantage=20 of the solid state electrolyte effect, but for now I'm still sleeping on = it.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; = mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; = mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D3>All the best,</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; = mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D3>Andy Magee - Flex Guru</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D3><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; = mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D3>Senior Consultant - Bourton = Group</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Times; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; = mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C1D176.47AAB340-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:02:16 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Chris Almeras <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Chris Almeras <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is one problem with going with the big boys who are hurting for work, if they have not been doing rapid 3-5 day turns, the quality issue can become a major issue when speeding up your normal process time. The quick turn shops who have been doing this kind of business for years may come at a little higher price, but their process in a quick turn environment is already stable, and some of those shops can turn a pcb in 24 to 48 hours. Just a thought. Chris Almeras DSI -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 3:58 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop With the pcb biz so slow now, most big shops are scratching for work. you can get 3-5 days turn with competive prices from the big boys, they have the latest equipment and technologies. Get the best of both worlds! Good luck! "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> on 03/21/2002 12:15:27 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: (bcc: Warren Crow/US/I-O INC) Subject: Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop Explain to me what each means to you? Then maybe I can pick any two..... Dan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Steele [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:03 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop Quick, good, cheap. Pick any two... Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 6:07 AM Subject: Quick turn fab shop Hi all Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab shop. Greatly appreciate any suggestions. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:06:57 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: PCB exposure to solvents X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" We conformally coat our PCB assemblies using an acrylic and use Methyl Ethyl Ketone to strip assemblies if they require rework. Has anyone carried out any work on the maximum exposure time you can expose PCBs to solvents? (I realise that it will depend on the laminate materials, component constuction etc.) Michael, The maximum time is "no longer than absolutely necessary". We use toluene to strip our acrylics and it seldom takes longer than 5 minutes. We verify removal using black light. MEK is pretty darned aggressive. The time is more dependent on the solder mask you are using, since that covers most of your laminate surface. Most solder masks are only designed to take 4-5 exposures to reflow conditions before they start to break down. By the time you get to the rework stage, you may have already seen 3-4 reflow excursions (HASL, SMT reflow, wave, touchup), so the mask becomes more porous and more susceptible to chemical attack. Methinks I hear echos in the background of someone who left the boards in the MEK over a lunch break and wonders if the assemblies are still good...... Doug Pauls Rockwell Collins --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:31:41 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Goldman, Patricia J." <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Goldman, Patricia J." <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: e-mail X-To: "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" They were advertising equipment to be shown at IPC Expo... Obviously not a very good way to do it! Patty Patricia J. Goldman PPG Industries, Inc. 724-274-3417 [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Mcmaster, Michael [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 8:22 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] e-mail I got it, too. Ditto on delete. > ---------- > From: > [log in to unmask][SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;[log in to unmask] > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:04 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] e-mail > > I received an e-mail From:Leading Edge Devices ([log in to unmask]) with the > Subject: Must see at IPC containing 5 image attachments and 1 untitled > attachment. With all the BS viruses going around I immediately hit DELETE. > Anyone out there aware of this? > Rick Howieson > Delta Group Electronics, Inc. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:49:15 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Francois Monette <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Francois Monette <[log in to unmask]> Subject: BGA reballing X-cc: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Justin, As far as I know, the number 3 that came up in other replies is based on the fact that all moisture sensitive components, including PBGAs, are pre-conditioned with 3 reflow cycles prior to package qualification (ref. J-STD-020 and J-STD-033). This is done right after soaking the parts to their specified moisture content. This means that you can rely on the fact that the parts will survive at least 3 reflow cycles at their maximum floor life which is defined by their MS level. Beyond that, there is no data to guarantee the reliability of the component. Of course if you bake the parts prior to reflow you will reduce the concern relative to moisture/reflow damage. On the other hand, there is also a limit specified for the maximum number of bake cycles at 125C (currently only one bake cycle allowed), because of solderability issues. As someone already pointed out, boards with BGAs on both sides imply at least two reflow cycles to begin with. Removal, re-attachment and reballing should also be considered if the package body exceeds 200C. This is the critical limit set by the IPC/JEDEC standard to define a reflow cycle which can cause potential internal damage to the parts. I hope this is helpful. Francois Monette Cogiscan Inc. Tel : 450-534-2644 Fax : 450-534-0092 E-mail : [log in to unmask] www.cogiscan.com Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:27:48 -0000 From: "Braime, Justin" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: BGA reballing Hi guys, I am looking at using the SolderQuik preforms for reballing some BGAs, but I am concerned about the reliability of this process in terms of the number of thermal cycles being sustained by the BGA component. Does anybody know of any studies done on this? Thanks Justin Braime Senior Production Engineer Racal Instruments Ltd 480 Bath Rd, Slough Berkshire, SL1 6BE England Tel: +44 (0)1628 604455 Fax: +44 (0)1628 662017 E-mail: [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:54:07 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: esd defect opamp X-To: Lon Weffers <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1D187.8290EA90" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1D187.8290EA90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The component is ESD rated 1000V and is a bipolar input desgin. My experience with these type devices; they are pretty tough. Much less suseptable to damage than many MOSFET or JFET input opamps. Which may have 500V ratings or less. I find my mind moving in the same path as Moon's. What about EOS damage? What kind of buffer is there between the input and the outside world. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Lon Weffers Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 6:57 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] esd defect opamp Dear technetters, How likely is the fact that an assembled AD844 opamp gets defect by ESD? We are certain that these components were produced in an esd safe process, so I presume there is an esd problem with our customer. We produced about 50 boards with on each board 4 AD844’s. 15 boards have damaged AD844’s on different places on the board. Regards Lon Weffers’ ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1D187.8290EA90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:o =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =3D=20 "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3DWord.Document name=3DProgId> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR> <META content=3D"Microsoft Word 9" name=3DOriginator><LINK=20 href=3D"cid:[log in to unmask]" rel=3DFile-List><!--[if gte = mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind> <w:HyphenationZone>21</w:HyphenationZone> <w:EnvelopeVis/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> <STYLE>P.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; = mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; = mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; = mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; = mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; = mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; = mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; = mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; = mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; = mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman" } SPAN.EmailStijl15 { COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal-compose; mso-ansi-font-size: = 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; = mso-bidi-font-family: Arial } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=3DNL style=3D"tab-interval: 35.4pt"> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D72495713-22032002>The=20 component is ESD rated 1000V and is a bipolar input desgin. = </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D72495713-22032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D72495713-22032002>My=20 experience with these type devices; they are pretty tough. Much less = suseptable=20 to damage than many MOSFET or JFET input opamps. Which may have 500V = ratings or=20 less.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D72495713-22032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D72495713-22032002>I find=20 my mind moving in the same path as Moon's. What about EOS damage?=20 </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D72495713-22032002>What kind of buffer is there between the = input and=20 the outside world. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20 [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Lon = Weffers<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20 Friday, March 22, 2002 6:57 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20 [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] esd defect = opamp<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV class=3DSection1> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStijl15><FONT color=3Dblack = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: = 12.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">Dear=20 technetters,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStijl15><FONT color=3Dblack = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: = 12.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"><![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStijl15><FONT color=3Dblack = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: = 12.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">How=20 likely is the fact that an assembled AD844 opamp gets defect by ESD?=20 <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStijl15><FONT color=3Dblack = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: = 12.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">We=20 are certain that these components were produced in an esd safe = process, so I=20 presume there is an esd problem with our=20 customer.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStijl15><FONT color=3Dblack = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: = 12.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">We=20 produced about 50 boards with on each board 4 AD844’s. 15 boards = have damaged=20 AD844’s on different places on the = board.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStijl15><FONT color=3Dblack = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: = 12.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"><![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStijl15><FONT color=3Dblack = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: = 12.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">Regards=20 Lon Weffers’<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStijl15><FONT color=3Dblack = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: = 12.0pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"><![if = !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P><= /DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C1D187.8290EA90-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:54:09 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Tiny black spots on copper foil surface Or somebody sneezed. You might try to recreate the spots by flicking some water on the panel. It could also be algae growing in the tanks. When I hear black spots on copper I think tarnish. Hans -----Original Message----- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 2:57 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Tiny black spots on copper foil surface Shirley, Sounds like it might be very very small pin holes in your resist that is letting in a microscopic amount of etchant. JaMi Smith -----Original Message----- From: Shirley Xiao [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:14 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Tiny black spots on copper foil surface Dear All: We encountered a problem after develop, etch & strip. Lots of tiny black spots were found on copper surface. We are sure that these tiny black spots are not oxidization.They can not be removed by acetone but is removable by micro etch.Before get result by EDX element analysis, I wish anyone have similar experience can share some information with me. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards(r) http://movies.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:56:04 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Quick turn fab shop X-To: Chris Almeras <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Using the big shops it's not a matter of "speeding up the process" it still take the same time to build a board. They just have available capacity and will place jobs ahead of others in the line from operation to operation. The advantage is they will have automated equipment, expensive wet process monitors, AOI, modern drills, mulit head flying grid testers. They tend to do fine pitch, blind and burried, laser micro via, high aspect ratio, the tough stuff that requires current technology equipment and processes as well as the easy. They are willing to cut the expedite fees, reduce tooling charges. Side benifit is you only pay tooling 1 time if you go to production with the same artwork. The smaller quick turn shop might give more help and better personal service. Good luck either way, we have had great success using the big guys for quick prototype for 1 1/2 yrs. Chris Almeras <[log in to unmask]> on 03/22/2002 07:02:16 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to Chris Almeras <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: (bcc: Warren Crow/US/I-O INC) Subject: Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop There is one problem with going with the big boys who are hurting for work, if they have not been doing rapid 3-5 day turns, the quality issue can become a major issue when speeding up your normal process time. The quick turn shops who have been doing this kind of business for years may come at a little higher price, but their process in a quick turn environment is already stable, and some of those shops can turn a pcb in 24 to 48 hours. Just a thought. Chris Almeras DSI -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 3:58 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop With the pcb biz so slow now, most big shops are scratching for work. you can get 3-5 days turn with competive prices from the big boys, they have the latest equipment and technologies. Get the best of both worlds! Good luck! "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> on 03/21/2002 12:15:27 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to "Mauro, Dan" <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: (bcc: Warren Crow/US/I-O INC) Subject: Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop Explain to me what each means to you? Then maybe I can pick any two..... Dan -----Original Message----- From: Mark Steele [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 1:03 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Quick turn fab shop Quick, good, cheap. Pick any two... Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mauro, Dan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 6:07 AM Subject: Quick turn fab shop Hi all Can anyone out there suggest or give recommendations on a good quality quick turn fab shop. Greatly appreciate any suggestions. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:56:01 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Jim Mathis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Jim Mathis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: 2-sided SMT assemblies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1D187.C5E9AB60" ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1D187.C5E9AB60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My fellow TechNetters, Can someone please point me to where I can find information for implement= ing 2-sided SMT assembly processes? Any information about 2-sided reflow= soldering, necessary equipment, inspection and testing, anything at all = will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, all!Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://e= xplorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1D187.C5E9AB60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>My fellow Tech= Netters,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can someone please point me to wher= e I can find information for implementing 2-sided SMT assembly processes?= Any information about 2-sided reflow soldering, necessary equipmen= t, inspection and testing, anything at all will be greatly appreciated.</= DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks, all!<BR><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML><br c= lear=3Dall><hr>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : <a hr= ef=3D'http://explorer.msn.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p> ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C1D187.C5E9AB60-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:58:20 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Dendrites: More than expected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you all for your precious information. That will be some helpful information. Jean-Fran=E7ois Bissonnette V=E9rificateur, Contr=F4le de la Qualit=E9 =C9lectronique Produits et Proc=E9d=E9s Vapor Rail Inc. 10655 Henri-Bourassa O. St-Laurent, Qc H4S 1A1 (514) 335-4200 x2021 (514) 335-4231 fax <<Bissonnette, Jean-Francois.vcf>>=20 WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged and= confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or en= tity named herein. If the reader of this transmission is not the intended r= ecipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or = copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:21:46 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, James TerVeen <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: James TerVeen <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 2-sided SMT assemblies X-To: Jim Mathis <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am certain that everyone will give some great ideas for all your questions. My one and I think very important one, will be to make sure everyone knows all during the process that they are two sided boards, and that you handle them differently. If you do not, you will find missing parts later in the assembly process and no one will know how it happened. Operators need to understand this otherwise you will be pointing fingers later. Jim Mathis <rsimathis@HOT To: [log in to unmask] MAIL.COM> cc: Sent by: Subject: [TN] 2-sided SMT assemblies TechNet <[log in to unmask] RG> 03/22/02 09:56 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to Jim Mathis My fellow TechNetters, Can someone please point me to where I can find information for implementing 2-sided SMT assembly processes? Any information about 2-sided reflow soldering, necessary equipment, inspection and testing, anything at all will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, all! Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:46:57 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: 2-sided SMT assemblies X-To: Jim Mathis <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=fokj5vE02Y8tqaLYLqHG4R0vrONCCNh7qDIVGevmCEQZm0F6qvN7Ol13" --0__=fokj5vE02Y8tqaLYLqHG4R0vrONCCNh7qDIVGevmCEQZm0F6qvN7Ol13 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Unless you have about $1M and 6-10 months to spend. Try to send work out to CEM's (Custom Electronic Manufacturers). Jim Mathis <[log in to unmask]> on 03/22/2002 08:56:01 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to Jim Mathis <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: (bcc: Warren Crow/US/I-O INC) Subject: [TN] 2-sided SMT assemblies My fellow TechNetters, Can someone please point me to where I can find information for implementing 2-sided SMT assembly processes? Any information about 2-sided reflow soldering, necessary equipment, inspection and testing, anything at all will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, all!Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --0__=fokj5vE02Y8tqaLYLqHG4R0vrONCCNh7qDIVGevmCEQZm0F6qvN7Ol13 Content-type: text/html; name="att1.htm" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="att1.htm" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Content-Description: Internet HTML PEhUTUw+PEJPRFkgU1RZTEU9ImZvbnQ6MTBwdCB2ZXJkYW5hOyBib3JkZXI6bm9uZTsiPjxESVY+ TXkgZmVsbG93IFRlY2hOZXR0ZXJzLDwvRElWPiA8RElWPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPiA8RElWPkNhbiBz b21lb25lIHBsZWFzZSBwb2ludCBtZSB0byB3aGVyZSBJIGNhbiBmaW5kIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIGZv ciBpbXBsZW1lbnRpbmcgMi1zaWRlZCBTTVQgYXNzZW1ibHkgcHJvY2Vzc2VzPyZuYnNwOyBBbnkg aW5mb3JtYXRpb24gYWJvdXQgMi1zaWRlZCByZWZsb3cgc29sZGVyaW5nLCBuZWNlc3NhcnkgZXF1 aXBtZW50LCBpbnNwZWN0aW9uIGFuZCB0ZXN0aW5nLCBhbnl0aGluZyBhdCBhbGwgd2lsbCBiZSBn cmVhdGx5IGFwcHJlY2lhdGVkLjwvRElWPiA8RElWPiZuYnNwOzwvRElWPiA8RElWPlRoYW5rcywg YWxsITxCUj48QlI+PC9ESVY+PC9CT0RZPjwvSFRNTD48YnIgY2xlYXI9YWxsPjxocj5HZXQgbW9y ZSBmcm9tIHRoZSBXZWIuICBGUkVFIE1TTiBFeHBsb3JlciBkb3dubG9hZCA6IDxhIGhyZWY9J2h0 dHA6Ly9leHBsb3Jlci5tc24uY29tJz5odHRwOi8vZXhwbG9yZXIubXNuLmNvbTwvYT48YnI+PC9w Pg0K --0__=fokj5vE02Y8tqaLYLqHG4R0vrONCCNh7qDIVGevmCEQZm0F6qvN7Ol13-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:10:05 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, ART HAMPTON <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: ART HAMPTON <[log in to unmask]> Subject: 2-sided SMD assembiles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_TC5ERN00000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_TC5ERN00000000000000 Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; boundary="------------Boundary-00=_UC5EMY50000000000000" --------------Boundary-00=_UC5EMY50000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Jim,=0D My one and only bit of advice is if you are reflowing components on the bottom side=0D then your profile must be robust enough to maintain a proper reflow on th= e top and not lose =0D the parts on the bottom side, however this should not be a problem due to surface tension,=0D next depending on the type of transport system you reflow oven has will h= elp you determine =0D how successful you will be.=0D =0D Art,=0D Q-Tronics --------------Boundary-00=_UC5EMY50000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; 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FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0p= x 10px 10px; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman" vLi= nk=3D#000080 aLink=3D#000080 link=3D#000080 bgColor=3D#fff1de background=3D= cid:9BB32A66-D3AC-455B-A216-3CE523AD0A4C scroll=3D"yes" X-FDIS=3D"Urgent"= X-FCAT=3D"Business-Like" X-FCOL=3D"Business-Like" X-FIT=3D"Letter" SIGCO= LOR=3D"0" X-FID=3D"4D3935B8-9ADC-4E24-954F-10CD5996F9C9" X-FVER=3D"2.0" X= -ASN=3D"2D6C0820-4542-11D4-BA40-0050DAC68030" X-ASNF=3D"0" X-ASH=3D"2D6C0= 820-4542-11D4-BA40-0050DAC68030" X-ASHF=3D"1" X-AN=3D"6486DDE0-3EFD-11D4-= BA3D-0050DAC68030" X-ANF=3D"0" X-AP=3D"6486DDE0-3EFD-11D4-BA3D-0050DAC680= 30" X-APF=3D"1" X-AD=3D"D5251910-4145-11D4-BA3D-0050DAC68030" X-ADF=3D"0"= ORGYPOS=3D"0"><TABLE id=3DINCREDIMAINTABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D= 2 width=3D"95%" border=3D0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDIHEADER width=3D"100%"> <TABLE style=3D"WIDTH: 100%" width=3D"100%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDITEXTREGION style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 7px; PADDING-LEFT: 7px= ; FONT-SIZE: 12pt" vAlign=3Dtop=20 width=3D"100%"> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Hello Jim,</DIV> <DIV>My one and only bit of advice is if you are=20 <STRONG><EM>reflowing</EM></STRONG> components on the bottom side</= DIV> <DIV>then your profile must be robust enough to maintain a proper r= eflow=20 on the top and not lose </DIV> <DIV>the parts on the bottom side, however this should not be a=20 problem due to surface tension,</DIV> <DIV>next depending on the type of transport system you reflow= oven=20 has will help you determine </DIV> <DIV>how successful you will be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Art,</DIV> <DIV>Q-Tronics</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></TD></TR> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDIFOOTER width=3D"100%"> <TABLE cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D"100%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD vAlign=3Dbottom> <TABLE> <TBODY> <TR> <TD width=3D"100%"></TD> <TD id=3DINCREDISOUND vAlign=3Dbottom align=3Dmiddle></TD> <TD id=3DINCREDIANIM vAlign=3Dbottom align=3Dmiddle></TD></TR></TBODY></T= ABLE></TD></TR> <TR> <TD vAlign=3Dbottom width=3D"100%"> <TABLE style=3D"WIDTH: 100%" width=3D"100%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD> <DIV align=3Dright><IMG id=3DINCREDISETASATTACH alt=3D"= " hspace=3D0 src=3D"cid:283E9656-BE1E-4E78-A61C-C00D9C5C0A7F" align=3Dbas= eline border=3D0 ></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TAB= LE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></BODY></html> --------------Boundary-00=_UC5EMY50000000000000-- --------------Boundary-00=_TC5ERN00000000000000-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:53:42 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Flattening a board during assembly Hi Michael, I know that board flattening procedure isn't board friendly thing but what's a better alternative? It came down to either do the bake & twist procedure or scrap the panels. You are 100% correct that excesses could cause irreparable damage to the panels but the procedure was only done by the PE (me), QEs and the Final Inspect Leads. Your caution/warning could apply to any manual operation. At least a flattened board stayed flat and didn't curl up when it saw an elevated temp. (smt reflow) at the assembly house. If I could have figured a way to laminate an unbalanced construction flat the extra procedure wouldn't have been necessary. Hans -----Original Message----- From: Mcmaster, Michael [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:10 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Flattening a board during assembly Rumor has it that we've reached the bottom of the recent economic downturn. That may or may not be true. All I know is that I'm busy enough that I've fallen a few weeks and a few hundred Technet e-mails behind. Maybe I need to introduce my Technet E-mail Backlog Index and see how it corresponds to the other financial indicators. All kidding aside, Hans your "manual assist" process is not advised. I've seen boards with cracked soldermask that were traced down to someone "flattening" a warped board before placing on a driller or router bed. I don't recommend flexing cold boards to remove warpage. > ---------- > From: Hinners Hans M Civ > WRALC/LUGE[SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:27 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Flattening a board during assembly > > Hey Daan, > > Here's a generic dewarp I've used in the past. You or preferably the Fab > house should have an oven large enough to load the panels or boards. If > done properly you won't see re-warp during the assembly process. Dewarp > is > not a board friendly process and I shudder to consider the longer term > reliability issues but it gets them flat when nothing else will. It's > usually better to dewarp boards instead of panels because of stress relief > that occurs at Route. On the other hand a 2 or 4 up panel cuts your cycle > time down considerably. > > 1. Load warped panels into oven. (Keep stacks reasonable sized: ~500 > mils > of board stock or less - 6-10 panels depending on thickness) > 2. Place several Caul plates (that match or overlap panel size) ~50 > pounds > of weight & Use Kraft Paper (Sulfur Free) to protect panels > 3. Bake at 340+ F for 4-6 hours (Material must be at or slightly above > Tg) > 4. Cool slowly to room temp. > 5. Manually assist (Bend & Twist) the dewarp at Final Inspect. (Great > upper body workout on those 200+ board shipments) > 6. Inspect Panels on Flatness (Granite) Table. ("Tap" test the 4 > corners. > If the board's corners don't touch the table you've got more flexing to > do.) > > Hans > > AC-130 Gunship Motto: "You can run but, you'll only die tired." > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Hans M. Hinners > Electronics Engineer > Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE) > 226 Cochran Street > Robins AFB GA 31098-1622 > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > Com: (478) 926 - 5224 > Fax: (478) 926 - 4911 > DSN Prefix: 468 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: d. terstegge [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 11:48 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Flattening a board during assembly > > > Hi Technetters, > > We've got a batch of boards here that's really twisted (about 1.5 % when > measured according to IPC-TM-650) due to imbalanced design. The customers > is > not willing to change the design, and we discussed with them the > possibility > of using a carrier-frame for flattening these boards while they are > processed through our SMT-line. > > My worry is that this results in unacceptable stress in the solder joints > as > soon as the board is released from the carrier. Fortunately there's no BGA > on this board, but it does have a small QFP and some 40 mm long > SMT-connectors. It's supposed to be a high-reliability military product. > > Does anyone have any data on the effects of such internal stresses ? > Also other comments are welcome. > > Best regards. > > Daan Terstegge > SMT Centre > Thales Communications > Unclassified mail > Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ----- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET > Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ----- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:22:29 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: PCB exposure to solvents MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Toluene or xylene or butyl acetate generally work well on acrylics, with less damage to the PCB. Jon Moore --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 02:30:04 +0200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: PCB exposure to solvents X-To: "KIPPING, Michael (York Rd)" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael It all depends on the solvent. MEK is a fairly aggressive and toxic solvent. I'd suggest trying to find a milder one, such as one of the paraffins. I'll answer your question with another: how long is a piece of string? Brian "KIPPING, Michael (York Rd)" wrote: > > Hi there > > We conformally coat our PCB assemblies using an acrylic and use Methyl Ethyl > Ketone to strip assemblies if they require rework. > Has anyone carried out any work on the maximum exposure time you can expose > PCBs to solvents? (I realise that it will depend on the laminate materials, > component constuction etc.) > > Thanks > > Michael Kipping > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:05:35 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Atkinson, Neil" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Atkinson, Neil" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: BGA reballing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" I guess the key here is to minimise the heat sustained by the BGA. I have seen one company here in the UK (Retronix) who use a laser system for reballing BGAs. I don't have direct experience of using their service for BGAs but having witnessed it working, it looks pretty good at only applying the minimum amount of heat exactly where it is required... Neil -----Original Message----- From: Peter Swanson [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 21 March 2002 16:57 Subject: Re: BGA reballing Justin, A good question. Number of BGA reflow steps: 1) Initial placement 2) Removal from pcb 3) Reball 4) Replacement on pcb 4 temp excursions. When this issue has been brought up before in this forum, I do not believe that a written spec for the maximum number of reflow cycles of a BGA was ever found. The specific part manufacturer might state something... There was a rumour that Motorola specified 3 reflow cycles for its parts, but I never saw anything in writing, and this may be an "urban myth". In the TechNet archives there is an e-mail from Axiom Electronics stating "In all of the parts we have removed, reballed, and replaced, we have not seen damage due to numerous reflow cycles." This was in 1996 tho... (Message no 005489). There may be more info there. It would be important to strictly observe the baking requirements as determined by the moisture sensitivity level of the device. The reflow cycles should all be to the correct profiles to minimise thermal shock, etc. Declaring a commercial interest (as we sell this product), no customer has reported issues to us. I would be interested to hear further views! Regards, Peter -- ========================================================= Peter Swanson [log in to unmask] INTERTRONICS http://www.intertronics.co.uk INTERTRONICS is dedicated to providing quality material, consumable and equipment solutions to the electronics manufacturing and other technology based industries, with the highest levels of technical support and customer service. -----Original Message----- From: Braime, Justin [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 21 March 2002 14:28 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] BGA reballing Hi guys, I am looking at using the SolderQuik preforms for reballing some BGAs, but I am concerned about the reliability of this process in terms of the number of thermal cycles being sustained by the BGA component. Does anybody know of any studies done on this? Thanks Justin Braime Senior Production Engineer Racal Instruments Ltd 480 Bath Rd, Slough Berkshire, SL1 6BE England Tel: +44 (0)1628 604455 Fax: +44 (0)1628 662017 E-mail: [log in to unmask] **************************************************************************** *************************** The information contained in this e-mail is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. It is intended only for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy, circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in this e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. 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For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk ________________________________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:08:26 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 2-sided SMT assemblies X-To: Jim Mathis <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D3DC.9F4DDAB0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D3DC.9F4DDAB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim, =20 depends on what your assemblies look like. With the usual stuff (R=B4s = and C=B4s and smaller (lighter parts)) on one side, usually called bottom side, = it=B4s should really not be a problem at all, just do the heavy stuff last. As mentioned before look after possible mechanical impact of the = already populated side, especially during second reflow.=20 If you go for glueing and wavesolder SMD the same caution should be = taken. If the latter is true for you it might take a bit more effort to = implement the process of glueing and handling your workpieces, with doubleside = reflow it=B4s not that much of a problem ... except for your THT-parts. =20 Good luck=20 =20 Wolfgang =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D3DC.9F4DDAB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY=20 style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; FONT: 10pt = verdana; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <DIV><SPAN class=3D737355508-25032002><FONT face=3Dverdana>Hi=20 Jim,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D737355508-25032002></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D737355508-25032002><FONT face=3Dverdana>depends on = what your=20 assemblies look like. With the usual stuff (R=B4s and C=B4s and smaller = (lighter=20 parts)) on one side, usually called bottom side, it=B4s should really = not be a=20 problem at all, just do the heavy stuff last.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D737355508-25032002>As mentioned before look after = possible=20 mechanical impact of the already populated side, especially during = second=20 reflow. </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D737355508-25032002>If you go for glueing and = wavesolder SMD the=20 same caution should be taken.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D737355508-25032002>If the latter is true for you it = might take=20 a bit more effort to implement the process of glueing and handling your = workpieces, with doubleside reflow it=B4s not that much of a problem = ... except=20 for your THT-parts.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D737355508-25032002></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D737355508-25032002><FONT face=3Dverdana>Good luck=20 </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D737355508-25032002></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D737355508-25032002><FONT=20 face=3Dverdana>Wolfgang</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D737355508-25032002></SPAN><FONT=20 face=3DTahoma><BR> </DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D3DC.9F4DDAB0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:29:34 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Dieselberg, Ron" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dieselberg, Ron" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Card Edge Connector X-To: Scott Kauling <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D3F0.56DB9F10" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D3F0.56DB9F10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Scott, in one of my former lives I used to do printer servicing for IBM. We used an oil type of material (about the consistency of mineral oil) to lube and protect the fingers and sockets. I cannot remember the name of the material, but if you can contact your local IBM printer service engineer he can probably tell you where you can get it. It is used very sparingly! Good luck. Ron Dieselberg Trainer/Auditor CMC ELECTRONICS CINCINNATI [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Scott Kauling [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 16:01 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Card Edge Connector We are inserting a backplane board with gold fingers into a mother board with three connectors to accept the gold fingers. Is anyone out there that has heard of, or is using some sort of lubricant to insert boards into such connectors? If you are what are you using? SCOTT ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D3F0.56DB9F10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2652.35"> <TITLE>RE: [TN] Card Edge Connector</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Scott, in one of my former lives I = used to do printer servicing for IBM. We used an oil type of material = (about the consistency of mineral oil) to lube and protect the fingers = and sockets. I cannot remember the name of the material, but if you can = contact your local IBM printer service engineer he can probably tell = you where you can get it.</FONT><U> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">It is = used very sparingly!</FONT></U></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Good luck.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Ron Dieselberg</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Trainer/Auditor</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CMC ELECTRONICS</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CINCINNATI</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">[log in to unmask]</FONT> </P> <UL><UL> <P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original = Message-----</FONT></A> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: Scott Kauling = [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>= ]</FONT></B> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent: </FONT></B> <FONT = SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Wednesday, March 20, 2002 16:01 PM</FONT> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">To: </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">[log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: </FONT>= </B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">[TN] Card Edge Connector</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">We are inserting a backplane board = with gold fingers into a mother board with three connectors to accept = the gold fingers.</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Is anyone out there that has heard of, = or is using some sort of lubricant to insert boards into such = connectors?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">If you are what are you using?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">SCOTT</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">---------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Technet Mail List provided as a free = service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To unsubscribe, send a message to = [log in to unmask] with following text in</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">the BODY (NOT the subject field): = SIGNOFF Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To temporarily halt delivery of = Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To receive ONE mailing per day of all = the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Search previous postings at: = www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail = Archives</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Please visit IPC web site <A = HREF=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A> for = additional</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">information, or contact Keach = Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">---------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------</FONT> </P> </UL></UL> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D3F0.56DB9F10-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:46:20 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 2-sided SMT assemblies MIME-Version: 1.0 (Generated by NET-TEL Mailguard SMTP version 4.0.0.22) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim, Another issue that you should think about is that you need to have some = free areas on the first-assembled side of the board, so that you can = support the board during stencilprinting of the second side. Especially = when stencilling fine-pitch components board-support becomes a critical = parameter. Daan Terstegge SMT Centre Thales Communications Unclassified mail Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net=20 >>> Jim Mathis <[log in to unmask]> 03/22 3:56 pm >>> My fellow TechNetters, Can someone please point me to where I can find information for implementin= g 2-sided SMT assembly processes? Any information about 2-sided reflow = soldering, necessary equipment, inspection and testing, anything at all = will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, all!Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://exp= lorer.msn.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:20:15 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Dieselberg, Ron" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dieselberg, Ron" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: PCB exposure to solvents X-To: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D3FF.CD259CC0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D3FF.CD259CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Brian, I have the answer to the string quiz. Long enough to reach from one tin can to the other tin can. Was I rite? Ron Dieselberg Trainer/Auditor CMC ELECTRONICS CINCINNATI [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 19:30 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] PCB exposure to solvents Michael It all depends on the solvent. MEK is a fairly aggressive and toxic solvent. I'd suggest trying to find a milder one, such as one of the paraffins. I'll answer your question with another: how long is a piece of string? Brian "KIPPING, Michael (York Rd)" wrote: > > Hi there > > We conformally coat our PCB assemblies using an acrylic and use Methyl Ethyl > Ketone to strip assemblies if they require rework. > Has anyone carried out any work on the maximum exposure time you can expose > PCBs to solvents? (I realise that it will depend on the laminate materials, > component constuction etc.) > > Thanks > > Michael Kipping > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D3FF.CD259CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2652.35"> <TITLE>RE: [TN] PCB exposure to solvents</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Brian, I have the answer to the string = quiz. Long enough to reach from one tin can to the other tin can. Was I = rite?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Ron Dieselberg</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Trainer/Auditor</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CMC ELECTRONICS</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CINCINNATI</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">[log in to unmask]</FONT> </P> <UL><UL> <P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original = Message-----</FONT></A> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: Brian Ellis [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>= ]</FONT></B> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent: </FONT></B> <FONT = SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Friday, March 22, 2002 19:30 PM</FONT> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">To: </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">[log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: </FONT>= </B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Re: [TN] PCB exposure to = solvents</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Michael</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">It all depends on the solvent. MEK is = a fairly aggressive and toxic</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">solvent. I'd suggest trying to find a = milder one, such as one of the</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">paraffins. I'll answer your question = with another: how long is a piece</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">of string?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Brian</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">"KIPPING, Michael (York Rd)" = wrote:</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> Hi there</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> We conformally coat our PCB = assemblies using an acrylic and use Methyl Ethyl</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> Ketone to strip assemblies if = they require rework.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> Has anyone carried out any work = on the maximum exposure time you can expose</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> PCBs to solvents? (I = realise that it will depend on the laminate materials,</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> component constuction = etc.)</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> Thanks</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> Michael Kipping</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">></FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> = ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> Technet Mail List provided as a = free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> To unsubscribe, send a message = to [log in to unmask] with following text in</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> the BODY (NOT the subject = field): SIGNOFF Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> To temporarily halt delivery of = Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> To receive ONE mailing per day = of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet = Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> Search previous postings at: = www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail = Archives</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> Please visit IPC web site <A = HREF=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A> for additional</= FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> information, or contact Keach = Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">> = ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">---------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Technet Mail List provided as a free = service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To unsubscribe, send a message to = [log in to unmask] with following text in</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">the BODY (NOT the subject field): = SIGNOFF Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To temporarily halt delivery of = Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">To receive ONE mailing per day of all = the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Search previous postings at: = www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail = Archives</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Please visit IPC web site <A = HREF=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A> for = additional</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">information, or contact Keach = Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">---------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------</FONT> </P> </UL></UL> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D3FF.CD259CC0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:45:01 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 2-sided SMT assemblies X-To: [log in to unmask] Good point Daan. Although, if you're fortunate enough to have the latest DEK stuff as FormFlex, this needn't necessarily be the case. Old Steve has one of those 288's, or whatever the number (I can't remember them as 265's or is it 283 GSX'S and LITE'S like my old Chevy engines), I think, and I got to play with one two years ago and again a few months ago. Anyway, anyone care to comment on the form flex stuff? I remember programming the fine pitch auto flex (fpa) and using the non fine pitch version as well as machining permanent fixtures to do the same job but expensive. Hell, I'm going down a stencil printing memory lane over the past 5 years plus I'm snowed in, bored, and freezing in MI. How times have changed! MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:06:27 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 2-sided SMT assemblies X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 (Generated by NET-TEL Mailguard SMTP version 4.0.0.22) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Earl, Since a few weeks we do have this formflex-system in our 265 and it seems = to work quite good, although set-up time is a bit longer than DEK = promised. We were used to making a board-specific metal plate with holes = in it to place DEK's support pins in, and that's no longer needed. With = about 3 new boards per week that saves an awefull lot of time for = production engineering.=20 Daan Terstegge SMT Centre Thales Communications Unclassified mail Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net >>> Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> 03/25 2:45 pm >>> Good point Daan. Although, if you're fortunate enough to have the latest = DEK stuff as FormFlex, this needn't necessarily be the case. Old Steve has one of those 288's, or whatever the number (I can't remember them as 265's or is it 283 GSX'S and LITE'S like my old Chevy engines), I think, and I got to play with one two years ago and again a few months = ago. Anyway, anyone care to comment on the form flex stuff? I remember programming the fine pitch auto flex (fpa) and using the non fine pitch version as well as machining permanent fixtures to do the same job but expensive. Hell, I'm going down a stencil printing memory lane over the past 5 years plus I'm snowed in, bored, and freezing in MI. How times have changed! MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:17:21 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "KIPPING, Michael (York Rd)" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "KIPPING, Michael (York Rd)" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: PCB exposure to solvents MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" So I take it from the responses so far that no-one has carried out any testing to determine the length of time they are able to leave electronic assemblies in solvent strip tanks? Leaving an assembly in for 'the shortest possible time' is ok in theory but it isn't a specification for operators to work by. Does this mean that we are all relying on manufacturing operatives to make their own decisions on how long to leave assemblies in for (do they have the training to make decisions like that)? Regards Michael Kipping --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:48:32 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Charles Caswell <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Charles Caswell <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: PCB exposure to solvents MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D40C.22567A20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D40C.22567A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 -----Original Message----- From: Dieselberg, Ron [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 7:20 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] PCB exposure to solvents I use plain isopropyl to strip acrylic conf. coat. Usually half hour = soak brushing once or twice with a soft brush followed by aqueous = cleaning. Sometimes have to repeat but works well and is safer for you = and the product. Charles Caswell Process Lead, PCB Frontier Electronic Systems "KIPPING, Michael (York Rd)" wrote:=20 >=20 > Hi there=20 >=20 > We conformally coat our PCB assemblies using an acrylic and use Methyl = Ethyl=20 > Ketone to strip assemblies if they require rework.=20 > Has anyone carried out any work on the maximum exposure time you can = expose=20 > PCBs to solvents? (I realise that it will depend on the laminate = materials,=20 > component constuction etc.)=20 >=20 > Thanks=20 >=20 > Michael Kipping=20 >=20 > = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------=20 > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV = 1.8d=20 > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in=20 > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet=20 > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL=20 > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest=20 > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & = Databases > E-mail Archives=20 > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional=20 > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or = 847-509-9700 ext.5315=20 > = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------=20 = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------=20 Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d=20 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in=20 the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet=20 To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET Technet NOMAIL=20 To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest=20 Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases = > E-mail Archives=20 Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional=20 information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 = ext.5315=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D40C.22567A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <TITLE>RE: [TN] PCB exposure to solvents</TITLE> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dieselberg, Ron=20 [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 25, = 2002 7:20=20 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] PCB = exposure to=20 solvents<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <UL> <UL> <P><SPAN class=3D290424214-25032002>I use plain isopropyl to strip = acrylic=20 conf. coat. Usually half hour soak brushing once or twice with a = soft=20 brush followed by aqueous cleaning. Sometimes have to repeat but = works=20 well and is safer for you and the product.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=3D290424214-25032002>Charles Caswell</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=3D290424214-25032002>Process Lead, PCB</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=3D290424214-25032002>Frontier Electronic = Systems</SPAN></P> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"KIPPING, Michael (York Rd)" = wrote:</FONT>=20 <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>>=20 Hi there</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>></FONT> = <BR><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2>> We conformally coat our PCB assemblies = using an=20 acrylic and use Methyl Ethyl</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>>=20 Ketone to strip assemblies if they require rework.</FONT> = <BR><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2>> Has anyone carried out any work on the = maximum=20 exposure time you can expose</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>> PCBs=20 to solvents? (I realise that it will depend on the laminate=20 materials,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> component = constuction=20 etc.)</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2>> Thanks</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>></FONT>=20 <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> Michael Kipping</FONT> = <BR><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2>></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>>=20 = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------</FONT>=20 <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> Technet Mail List provided as = a free=20 service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>>=20 To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following = text=20 in</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> the BODY (NOT the = subject=20 field): SIGNOFF Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>> To=20 temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET=20 Technet NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> To = receive ONE=20 mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET=20 Technet Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> Search = previous=20 postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases = >=20 E-mail Archives</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> Please = visit IPC=20 web site <A href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm"=20 target=3D_blank>http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A> for = additional</FONT>=20 <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> information, or contact Keach = Sasamori at=20 [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2>>=20 = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------</FONT>=20 </P> <P><FONT face=3DArial=20 = size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------------= -----------------</FONT>=20 <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Technet Mail List provided as a = free service=20 by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>To=20 unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following = text=20 in</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the BODY (NOT the = subject field):=20 SIGNOFF Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To = temporarily halt=20 delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet=20 NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To receive ONE = mailing per day=20 of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet=20 Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Search previous = postings at:=20 www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail=20 Archives</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Please visit IPC = web site <A=20 href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm"=20 target=3D_blank>http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A> for = additional</FONT>=20 <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>information, or contact Keach = Sasamori at=20 [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT = face=3DArial=20 = size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------------= -----------------</FONT>=20 </P></UL></UL></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D40C.22567A20-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:51:06 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: 2-sided SMT assemblies X-To: [log in to unmask] Thanks Daan, Doing this DFM/CE stuff, I don't get chances to keep up. So you can retro older machines as well? Always hated programming FPA (don't know the time delta between formflex and that) and the damn table kept having problems like pins sticking, etc. Enjoy, Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:56:01 -0000 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Mike Fenner <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: PCB exposure to solvents In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01C1D415.904D6EC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C1D415.904D6EC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RE: [TN] PCB exposure to solventsOn advanced training course [to answer hard questions], I was taught the answer "twice half its length" Kind Regards Mike Fenner Applications Engineer, European Operations Indium Corporation T: + 44 1908 580 400 M: + 44 7810 526 317 F: + 44 1908 580 411 E: [log in to unmask] W: www.indium.com Leadfree: www.Pb-Free.com -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Dieselberg, Ron Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 1:20 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] PCB exposure to solvents Brian, I have the answer to the string quiz. Long enough to reach from one tin can to the other tin can. Was I rite? Ron Dieselberg Trainer/Auditor CMC ELECTRONICS CINCINNATI [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 19:30 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] PCB exposure to solvents Michael It all depends on the solvent. MEK is a fairly aggressive and toxic solvent. I'd suggest trying to find a milder one, such as one of the paraffins. I'll answer your question with another: how long is a piece of string? Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C1D415.904D6EC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <TITLE>RE: [TN] PCB exposure to solvents</TITLE> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D926355115-25032002><FONT face=3DArial><FONT = color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 class=3D067245315-25032002>On</SPAN> advanced training = course <SPAN=20 class=3D067245315-25032002>[</SPAN>to answer hard questions<SPAN=20 class=3D067245315-25032002>],</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D926355115-25032002><SPAN = class=3D067245315-25032002></SPAN><FONT=20 face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><SPAN = class=3D067245315-25032002>I</SPAN> was=20 taught the answer</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 class=3D926355115-25032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D926355115-25032002><FONT face=3DArial><FONT = color=3D#0000ff><SPAN=20 class=3D067245315-25032002>"</SPAN>twice half its length<SPAN=20 class=3D067245315-25032002>"</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>Kind Regards</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>Mike Fenner</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>Applications Engineer, European=20 Operations</FONT> <BR><B><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>Indium=20 Corporation</FONT></B> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff> T: + = 44 1908 580=20 400</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>M: + 44 7810 526 = 317</FONT>=20 <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff> F: + 44 1908 580 411</FONT> = <BR><FONT=20 face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff> E: [log in to unmask]</FONT> = <BR><FONT face=3DArial=20 color=3D#0000ff>W:<U> www.indium.com</U> </FONT><BR><FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#0000ff>Leadfree:</FONT><U> <FONT face=3DArial=20 color=3D#0000ff>www.Pb-Free.com</FONT></U> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20 [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Dieselberg, = Ron<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20 Monday, March 25, 2002 1:20 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20 [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] PCB exposure to=20 solvents<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Brian, I have the answer to the string = quiz. Long=20 enough to reach from one tin can to the other tin can. Was I = rite?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Ron Dieselberg</FONT> <BR><FONT = face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Trainer/Auditor</FONT> <BR><FONT = face=3D"Courier New"=20 size=3D2>CMC ELECTRONICS</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20 size=3D2>CINCINNATI</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20 size=3D2>[log in to unmask]</FONT> </P> <UL> <UL> <P><A name=3D_MailData><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>-----Original=20 Message-----</FONT></A> <BR><B><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>From: =20 Brian Ellis [<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]= </FONT></B>=20 <BR><B><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sent: </FONT></B> = <FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2>Friday, March 22, 2002 19:30 PM</FONT> = <BR><B><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2>To: </FONT></B> <FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2>[log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><B><FONT face=3DArial=20 = size=3D2>Subject: </FONT></B> = <FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2>Re: [TN] PCB exposure to solvents</FONT> = </P> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Michael</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It all depends on the solvent. MEK = is a fairly=20 aggressive and toxic</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>solvent. I'd=20 suggest trying to find a milder one, such as one of the</FONT> = <BR><FONT=20 face=3DArial size=3D2>paraffins. I'll answer your question with = another: how=20 long is a piece</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>of = string?</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Brian</FONT>=20 </P></UL></UL></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C1D415.904D6EC0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:20:08 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: PCB exposure to solvents X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" So I take it from the responses so far that no-one has carried out any testing to determine the length of time they are able to leave electronic assemblies in solvent strip tanks? *Well, yes and no. I occasionally get the same situations that you describe and am asked if the assembly is still good. We do some testing on the hardware to see if we notice any real change or degradation of properties. That becomes part of our experience, not part of the specifications or work instructions for operators. And, the data is only good for that solvent, for that exposure, on that solder mask, on that laminate, etc. It is not an exhaustive testing to determine process windows by any stretch of the imagination. Leaving an assembly in for 'the shortest possible time' is ok in theory but it isn't a specification for operators to work by. Does this mean that we are all relying on manufacturing operatives to make their own decisions on how long to leave assemblies in for (do they have the training to make decisions like that)? *No, the operators do not have the training for that. This is why we employ materials experts or Experts On Call, to answer the questions when they come up. In our work instruction, we do use "minimal time" and so on. The operators understand that. We don't put in "up to one hour" because some might take it the wrong way and use all of that time, if they figure it acceptable. Doug Pauls --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:39:09 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Pelkey, Glenn" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Pelkey, Glenn" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Balanced Constructions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D41B.964F27E0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D41B.964F27E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello all, We've talked before about the importance of balancing copper weights within a multilayer board. What are your thoughts of balancing glass styles? What if the glass is not balanced but all the dielectric spacings are within tolerance? Thanks, Glenn ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D41B.964F27E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>Balanced Constructions</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hello all,</FONT> </P> <P> <FONT SIZE=3D2 = FACE=3D"Arial">We've talked before about the importance of balancing = copper weights within a multilayer board. What are your thoughts = of balancing glass styles? What if the glass is not balanced but = all the dielectric spacings are within tolerance?</FONT></P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thanks,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Glenn</FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D41B.964F27E0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:46:09 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Solderability testing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello, We have the opportunity to buy parts that are up to 4 years old ('98 date code) for an excellent price. Still in original factory packaging. They are warranteed by the supplier for a few months after purchase, but we may not use them until late summer. We are bringing a few of them in to check their condition out, but I don't know how to test them, and couldn't find anything in the IPC-TM-650 that seemed to apply. These are IC's that are normally worth over $100 a pop to us so we don't want to waste too many. We are a design and test type company - we do not fab our own boards or populate them in house other than a few hand installed components on most products. So we don't have reflow ovens, etc. We have a very small solder pot. There is a small CM in our city that we use that say they can do the testing, but the cost seems high - for the quantity we want to buy they say we should test 32 of them and they will not be useable for pick and place afterwards. There is a small chance some of them may be salvageable for manual installation. Can anybody direct me to some information - test procedures, equipment - on whether we might be able to evaluate these PQFP, fine pitch, high lead count devices ourselves? And what is a reasonable condition for the components to be in after this testing? Genny Gibbard (mailto:[log in to unmask]) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:56:24 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Balanced Constructions X-To: [log in to unmask] Depends on what is meant by balanced glass styles. I have commented before on this and prefer unbalanced constructions within each dielectric thickness requiring multiple plies. The caveat is using homogeneous styles to promote dimensional stability. As an example when 5 mil thickness is required it is advantageous, instead of using 2 plies of 1080, to use a single ply of 106 and one of 2113 to acheive the same result. This allows a high resin to glass ratio, as the 106, for better bond characteristics and lower resin content, as the 2113, for higher dimensional stability. Plus, the two ply 1080 is very "juicy" and tends to slip about too much. If you are talking about using, say, a balanced construction on one board side, as several two ply 2113 styles per dielectric thickness, and another on the other side, this too has merit. I recently used a construcion, when the copper foil was heavier on one side than the other, consisting of several plies of 7628, sandwiched between two plies of 2113, to counter the copper imbalance to minimize bow and twist. This is a good question and has many answers depending on design requirements. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:12:27 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Subject: large plastic blocks/bars needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good afternoon all, We have a project that needs plastic blocks 6x10x12 (in inches). It can = be Polyethylene (Low Density), Polyethylene (High Density), = Polypropylene or PVC. "Bar stock" would also work as long as we can cut = the above sized blocks out of it. Any ideas for a source? Thanks in advance, Phil Nutting --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:13:49 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Dave Hillman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Solderability testing X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Genny! The test details/methods you need can be found in the specification for solderability testing of components: IPC-JSTD-002A. Obtain a copy from IPC and if you have any questions please contact me. Dave Hillman CoChairman JSTD-002A committee [log in to unmask] Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 03/25/2002 10:46:09 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: [TN] Solderability testing Hello, We have the opportunity to buy parts that are up to 4 years old ('98 date code) for an excellent price. Still in original factory packaging. They are warranteed by the supplier for a few months after purchase, but we may not use them until late summer. We are bringing a few of them in to check their condition out, but I don't know how to test them, and couldn't find anything in the IPC-TM-650 that seemed to apply. These are IC's that are normally worth over $100 a pop to us so we don't want to waste too many. We are a design and test type company - we do not fab our own boards or populate them in house other than a few hand installed components on most products. So we don't have reflow ovens, etc. We have a very small solder pot. There is a small CM in our city that we use that say they can do the testing, but the cost seems high - for the quantity we want to buy they say we should test 32 of them and they will not be useable for pick and place afterwards. There is a small chance some of them may be salvageable for manual installation. Can anybody direct me to some information - test procedures, equipment - on whether we might be able to evaluate these PQFP, fine pitch, high lead count devices ourselves? And what is a reasonable condition for the components to be in after this testing? Genny Gibbard (mailto:[log in to unmask]) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:08:23 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: large plastic blocks/bars needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_168.aebe5ff.29d115f7_boundary" --part1_168.aebe5ff.29d115f7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Phil! From the sites that I visited, that size block is pretty non-standard, you might have to get something custom fabricated. Can you have some sheet stock bonded together to get that size? Anyways, here's a few places to try: http://www.adaptplastics.com/plasticmaterials.htm http://www.plastic-products.com/stock.htm http://www.vision-plastics.com/plastics.htm http://www.modernplastics.com/ http://www.professionalplastics.com/ -Steve Gregory- > Good afternoon all, > > We have a project that needs plastic blocks 6x10x12 (in inches). It can be > Polyethylene (Low Density), Polyethylene (High Density), Polypropylene or > PVC. "Bar stock" would also work as long as we can cut the above sized > blocks out of it. > > Any ideas for a source? > > Thanks in advance, > > Phil Nutting > --part1_168.aebe5ff.29d115f7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Phil!<BR> <BR> From the sites that I visited, that size block is pretty non-standard, you might have to get something custom fabricated. Can you have some sheet stock bonded together to get that size? Anyways, here's a few places to try:<BR> <BR> http://www.adaptplastics.com/plasticmaterials.htm<BR> http://www.plastic-products.com/stock.htm<BR> http://www.vision-plastics.com/plastics.htm<BR> http://www.modernplastics.com/<BR> http://www.professionalplastics.com/<BR> <BR> -Steve Gregory-<BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Good afternoon all,<BR> <BR> We have a project that needs plastic blocks 6x10x12 (in inches). It can be Polyethylene (Low Density), Polyethylene (High Density), Polypropylene or PVC. "Bar stock" would also work as long as we can cut the above sized blocks out of it.<BR> <BR> Any ideas for a source?<BR> <BR> Thanks in advance,<BR> <BR> Phil Nutting<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_168.aebe5ff.29d115f7_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:46:21 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: PADS POWER PCB DESIGNER Any Pads Power PCB designers out there wanting to get real serious about DC and RF MLB boards needing serious improvement through correction and complete redesign. Must know BGA's as well and be able to get along with someone intense like me. You know how I LOVE DFM/CE and all that goes with it. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:11:11 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Valquirio N. Carvalho" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Valquirio N. Carvalho" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: large plastic blocks/bars needed X-To: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Laminated Plastics in Billerica, MA (978) 663-8800 has an extensive stock of matierials and will cut to order in most instances. You will have to inquire about lead time and toleances. We have gotten a quick turn on some odd ball stuff from them in the past. Valquirio N. Carvalho Mfg. Engineer Teradyne, Inc. Phil Nutting wrote: >Good afternoon all, > >We have a project that needs plastic blocks 6x10x12 (in inches). It can be Polyethylene (Low Density), Polyethylene (High Density), Polypropylene or PVC. "Bar stock" would also work as long as we can cut the above sized blocks out of it. > >Any ideas for a source? > >Thanks in advance, > >Phil Nutting > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:23:44 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Leland Woodall <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Leland Woodall <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Lifted Resistors and Resistor Modules MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" All, We've lately noticed a marked increase in the number of lifted chip resistors and castellated termination resistor packs on one of our SMT manufacturing lines. This began after we upped our reflow profile to solve some solderability issues. When we recognized this new problem, we restored to profile to its original settings, but we're still seeing the increased volume of "floating" components. They're not completely tombstoned, but God love 'em, they're trying their best to be. Our solder prints measure as they always have, both in height and pad coverage. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance, Leland Woodall Quality Coordinator Keihin Carolina System Technology, Inc. 4047 McNair Road Tarboro, NC 27886 Phone: (252) 641-6750, Ext. 2865 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:13:57 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Lifted Resistors and Resistor Modules X-To: Leland Woodall <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Leland, sorry, but I don=B4t believe you, namely in that point that you=B4ve = gone back to the previous settings and things are still wrong. If it was Ok and than turned bad something has to have changed, your = task is to find out what is was. If you are lucky it=B4s just "the one thing", experience showed that = most of the times there are more than one slight (little) changes that cause a = great mess. The obvious things in your case to look at first are the profile = (especially the ramps), the paste (handling, environment and datecode), the parts = in question (solderability, contamination, handling and may the PCB too) = and the landpattern design (especially the castellated R-nets do need a = good pad design). I would go through all procedures first and look for point that=B4s = been changed and not set back, have been through that more than one time. Good luck Wolfgang =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Leland Woodall [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 5:24 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Lifted Resistors and Resistor Modules >=20 >=20 > All, >=20 > We've lately noticed a marked increase in the number of lifted chip > resistors and castellated termination resistor packs on one of our = SMT > manufacturing lines. This began after we upped our reflow=20 > profile to solve > some solderability issues. When we recognized this new=20 > problem, we restored > to profile to its original settings, but we're still seeing=20 > the increased > volume of "floating" components. They're not completely=20 > tombstoned, but God > love 'em, they're trying their best to be. >=20 > Our solder prints measure as they always have, both in height and pad > coverage. >=20 > Any suggestions? >=20 > Thanks in advance, >=20 > Leland Woodall > Quality Coordinator > Keihin Carolina System Technology, Inc. > 4047 McNair Road > Tarboro, NC 27886 >=20 > Phone: (252) 641-6750, Ext. 2865 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using=20 > LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with=20 > following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to=20 > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail=20 > to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources=20 > & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm=20 > for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or=20 > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------- >=20 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:32:08 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Balanced Constructions X-To: "Pelkey, Glenn" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D4A9.194469C0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D4A9.194469C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To quote a much used technical phrase:- It depends. In general to make a flat multilayer you need to have the construction so that it's symmetrical around the centre line with respect to copper thickness and pre-preg styles. To keep the dielectric the same is not enough because the different glass styles have different stresses in them due to the glass strand thickness and the number of strands in the warp & fill. However it's possible to "balance" the construction and use different pre-pregs side to side to compensate for different copper weights, but I guess this is an art rather than a science. Geoff Layhe www.lamar-uk.co.uk <http://www.lamar-uk.co.uk> -----Original Message----- From: Pelkey, Glenn [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 25 March 2002 16:39 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Balanced Constructions Hello all, We've talked before about the importance of balancing copper weights within a multilayer board. What are your thoughts of balancing glass styles? What if the glass is not balanced but all the dielectric spacings are within tolerance? Thanks, Glenn Private & Confidential: This e-mail message is confidential and is intended solely for the person or organisation to whom it is addressed. If the message is received by anyone other than the addressee please return the message to the sender by replying to it and then delete the message from your computer. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D4A9.194469C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <TITLE>Balanced Constructions</TITLE> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=680401109-26032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>To quote a much used technical phrase:- It depends.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=680401109-26032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In general to make a flat multilayer you need to have the construction so that it's symmetrical around the centre line with respect to copper thickness and pre-preg styles. To keep the dielectric the same is not enough because the different glass styles have different stresses in them due to the glass strand thickness and the number of strands in the warp & fill.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=680401109-26032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>However it's possible to "balance" the construction and use different pre-pregs side to side to compensate for different copper weights, but I guess this is an art rather than a science.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=680401109-26032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Geoff Layhe</FONT> </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=680401109-26032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><A href="http://www.lamar-uk.co.uk">www.lamar-uk.co.uk</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Pelkey, Glenn [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 25 March 2002 16:39<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Balanced Constructions<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hello all,</FONT> </P> <P> <FONT face=Arial size=2>We've talked before about the importance of balancing copper weights within a multilayer board. What are your thoughts of balancing glass styles? What if the glass is not balanced but all the dielectric spacings are within tolerance?</FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks,</FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Glenn</FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> <BR> <BR> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Private & Confidential:</FONT></B></P> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">This e-mail message is confidential and is intended solely for the person or</FONT></B></P> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">organisation to whom it is addressed. If the message is received by anyone</FONT></B></P> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">other than the addressee please return the message to the sender by replying</FONT></B></P> <P><B><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">to it and then delete the message from your computer.</FONT></B></P> <BR> <BR> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D4A9.194469C0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:48:44 +0530 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Blistering in PCBs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Probably the following message did not get delivered to this forum a few days before since I did not get ANY reply hence posting it again. Hi Technetters, We are currently running an 8 layer PCB, 1.6mm thickness. In the last run of approx. 400 nos. we found approx. 10 nos PCBs with blisters in some specific areas. In approx. 40-50 nos. the blistering is not there but the laminate has discoloration. More specifically, the blistering is seen in a particular area with a ground plane just beneath. In some PCBs the blistering is there on both sides of the PCB (just mirrored on both sides) and in some cases just on one side. Looking carefully at the bare PCBs I observed that there is a small ring around all the vias/PTHs with a width of approx. 0.2-0.3mm. This ring is basically the laminate itself but slightly raised and hence looking like a small ring. Is this normal? Can this be causing the blistering? OR is this an indication of some other phenomenon which is causing the blistering? Actually this ring is visible in ALL vias and PTHs all over the board, but blistering is happening ONLY in one particular area. What bothers me the most is that ALL PCBs have this ring around the vias/PTHs but the blistering has happened in approx. only 10 out of 400 PCBs. Somebody pointed it out to the reflow profile, which actually is withing the the paste manufacturer's specified range. Even if it IS due to the profile then why ONLY 10/400? Why not more? Can anybody suggest any possible causes of the same. We are not baking the PCBs prior to processing, but the boards are in vacuum packing with 10 PCBs per bag and the packing is opened only at the Stencil printing stage. Any suggestions welcome. Regards Vinit Verma Flextronics Technologies (India) Pvt. Ltd. 88A, Electronic City, Hosur Road, Bangalore-561 229 Tel: +91-80-852 0022, Ext. 161 ; Fax: +91-80-852-1022 E-Mail : [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:48:22 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Balanced Constructions X-To: [log in to unmask] It's only an art, whether MLB constructions and material selections comprising them, until the experiment is conducted and the effects are proven acceptable. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:53:48 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Blistering in PCBs X-To: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]> You know some blistering/delamination causes as poor design rules, poor material selections, poor material, poor relamination process management, poor thermal management. You need the x-sections to make a proper determination. The rings may be pink types. Though IPC does not consider this condition rejectable, it may be an indicator of process management issues that need to be addressed. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:12:11 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: PADS POWER PCB DESIGNER Folks, The following is an ad I'm considering for the Pads designer I need. I'm posting it here only to get reactions from you all, as PCB experts, concerning the job responsibilities and requirements. Let me know what you think, please. Pads Power Printed Circuit Board Design Engineer/Designer Serious growing telecommunications company needs serious PCB designer. Boards consist of several MLB types from 6 to 12 layers with BGA?s, CSP?s, and other fine pitch devices and attendant components. Both DC and Analog circuitry reside on these boards and impedance is critical in specified areas. Designer MUST: Be very focused on fulfilling responsibilities in a timely, professional manner Be capable of working in small company environment under ?quality? pressure first, then schedule Be capable of managing design processes for several board types as management directs priority Have 5 years minimum experience using Pads Power Have clear understanding of DFM principles using concurrent engineering (CE) Have clear understanding of MLB design, fabrication, assembly, and test requirements Have clear understanding of microstrip and stripline impedance requirements Have clear understanding of micro, blind, and buried vias Have clear understanding of MLB materials, constructions, and solderability Have clear understanding of MLB?s and all that comprise them Have AutoCad 14 experience to create mechanicals as master, assembly drawings, etc. Have extensive experience working with many component types Have clear understanding of all applicable IPC guidelines and requirements Have ability to communicate PCB requirements clearly to management, purchasing, engineering, and suppliers using concurrent engineering Have understanding of ISO 9000 (4.6): 94 and/or 2000 (7.3) design control requirements Prefer: MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 05:34:25 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Blistering in PCBs X-To: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vinit, The "raised" area around the vias/PTHs is probably due to damage to the laminates when the holes were made. You did not say if the blistered/discolored areas were around the holes. If possible try to post some pictures at steve's web site: http://stevezeva.homestead.com/index.html You may need to do a cross section of the damaged area. David A. Douthit Manager LoCan LLC Vinit Verma wrote: > Probably the following message did not get delivered to this forum a few > days before since I did not get ANY reply hence posting it again. > > Hi Technetters, > > We are currently running an 8 layer PCB, 1.6mm thickness. In the last run of > approx. 400 nos. we found approx. 10 nos PCBs with blisters in some specific > areas. In approx. 40-50 nos. the blistering is not there but the laminate > has discoloration. More specifically, the blistering is seen in a > particular area with a ground plane just beneath. In some PCBs the > blistering is there on both sides of the PCB (just mirrored on both sides) > and in some cases just on one side. > > Looking carefully at the bare PCBs I observed that there is a small ring > around all the vias/PTHs with a width of approx. 0.2-0.3mm. This ring is > basically the laminate itself but slightly raised and hence looking like a > small ring. Is this normal? Can this be causing the blistering? OR is this > an indication of some other phenomenon which is causing the blistering? > Actually this ring is visible in ALL vias and PTHs all over the board, but > blistering is happening ONLY in one particular area. What bothers me the > most is that ALL PCBs have this ring around the vias/PTHs but the > blistering has happened in approx. only 10 out of 400 PCBs. > > Somebody pointed it out to the reflow profile, which actually is withing the > the paste manufacturer's specified range. Even if it IS due to the profile > then why ONLY 10/400? Why not more? > > Can anybody suggest any possible causes of the same. > > We are not baking the PCBs prior to processing, but the boards are in vacuum > packing with 10 PCBs per bag and the packing is opened only at the Stencil > printing stage. > > Any suggestions welcome. > > Regards > Vinit Verma > Flextronics Technologies (India) Pvt. Ltd. > 88A, Electronic City, Hosur Road, > Bangalore-561 229 > Tel: +91-80-852 0022, Ext. 161 ; Fax: +91-80-852-1022 > E-Mail : [log in to unmask] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:47:29 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Tostevin, Bruce" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Tostevin, Bruce" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: large plastic blocks/bars needed X-To: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Phil, I'm not sure what the plastic is (polystyrene?) ... but otherwise, what about building them out of LEGOs? Bruce Tostevin Benchmark Electronics Hudson, NH > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Nutting [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 2:12 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] large plastic blocks/bars needed > > Good afternoon all, > > We have a project that needs plastic blocks 6x10x12 (in inches). It can > be Polyethylene (Low Density), Polyethylene (High Density), Polypropylene > or PVC. "Bar stock" would also work as long as we can cut the above sized > blocks out of it. > > Any ideas for a source? > > Thanks in advance, > > Phil Nutting > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:38:13 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: large plastic blocks/bars needed X-To: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask] sys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Call your local machine shop. They should have plenty of catalogs, possibly material in house. Ed At 02:12 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Good afternoon all, > >We have a project that needs plastic blocks 6x10x12 (in inches). It can >be Polyethylene (Low Density), Polyethylene (High Density), Polypropylene >or PVC. "Bar stock" would also work as long as we can cut the above sized >blocks out of it. > >Any ideas for a source? > >Thanks in advance, > >Phil Nutting > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: >SET Technet NOMAIL >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > >E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 >ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:16:51 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Joseph Spicuzza <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Joseph Spicuzza <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: PADS POWER PCB DESIGNER X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Earl, Our CAD guys could probably help you if you want to send the design here. Call John Gralewski at 412 858-6144 for details. Don't know if this is what you're looking for, just trying to help. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Earl Moon Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 7:12 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] PADS POWER PCB DESIGNER Folks, The following is an ad I'm considering for the Pads designer I need. I'm posting it here only to get reactions from you all, as PCB experts, concerning the job responsibilities and requirements. Let me know what you think, please. Pads Power Printed Circuit Board Design Engineer/Designer Serious growing telecommunications company needs serious PCB designer. Boards consist of several MLB types from 6 to 12 layers with BGA?s, CSP?s, and other fine pitch devices and attendant components. Both DC and Analog circuitry reside on these boards and impedance is critical in specified areas. Designer MUST: Be very focused on fulfilling responsibilities in a timely, professional manner Be capable of working in small company environment under ?quality? pressure first, then schedule Be capable of managing design processes for several board types as management directs priority Have 5 years minimum experience using Pads Power Have clear understanding of DFM principles using concurrent engineering (CE) Have clear understanding of MLB design, fabrication, assembly, and test requirements Have clear understanding of microstrip and stripline impedance requirements Have clear understanding of micro, blind, and buried vias Have clear understanding of MLB materials, constructions, and solderability Have clear understanding of MLB?s and all that comprise them Have AutoCad 14 experience to create mechanicals as master, assembly drawings, etc. Have extensive experience working with many component types Have clear understanding of all applicable IPC guidelines and requirements Have ability to communicate PCB requirements clearly to management, purchasing, engineering, and suppliers using concurrent engineering Have understanding of ISO 9000 (4.6): 94 and/or 2000 (7.3) design control requirements Prefer: MoonMan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:23:18 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: PADS POWER PCB DESIGNER X-To: [log in to unmask] Really do thank you Joseph, First I'm looking for someone to work in house. Failing that, I will look at a bureau. However, I must have a senior person capable of doing it all as I said. I've had too many situations where musical chairs were the game name and had to jump through hoops to get the job done in a reasonable time. I know you folks are very professional, but I need complete attention on these jobs. Quality is first then time then cost. Can't afford to strecht this thing out for someone else's benefit. Looking forward to talking more if I can't find a contractor to come in house. Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:36:39 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Volkmar Huss <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Volkmar Huss <[log in to unmask]> Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Dr=E4ger?= Electronics GmbH Subject: Measuring "No Clean" process quality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgVGVjaE5ldHRlcnMsDQoNCndlIGFyZSB3b3JraW5nIG9uIGRlZmluaW5nIG91ciAiTm8g Q2xlYW4iIHNvbGRlcmluZyBwcm9jZXNzLiBUaGUNCnNvbGRlci1wYXN0ZSBhbmQgZmx1eCBt YW51ZmFjdHVyZXJzIGNlcnRpZnkgdGhlICJObyBDbGVhbiIgY2FwYWJpbGl0eSBvZg0KDQp0 aGVpciBwcm9kdWN0cyB0byBzb21lIGV4dGVuZCwgYnV0IHdoYXQgaXMgdGhlIGRlZmluaXRp b24gb2YgIk5vIENsZWFuIj8NCg0KQW5kIEkgZG9uJ3QgbWVhbiB0aGUgc3RhdGVtZW50LCB0 aGF0IG9ubHkgaW5lcnQgcmVzaWR1ZXMgb2YgZmx1eCBhbmQNCnNvbGRlci1wYXN0ZSBhZGRp dGl2ZXMgcmVtYWluIG9uIHRoZSBib2FyZC4NCkFyZSB0aGVyZSBhbnkgc3RhbmRhcmRzIHRo YXQgY2FuIHVzZWQgYXMgYSByZWZlcmVuY2U/DQpIb3cgZG8geW91IG1lYXN1cmUgdGhlOg0K Ik5vIENsZWFuIiBjYXBhYmlsaXR5IG9mIHNvbGRlciBwYXN0ZSwgZmx1eCBhbmQgdHVidWxh ciBzb2xkZXIgd2l0aCBmbHV4DQoNCmNvcmU/DQoiTm8gQ2xlYW4iIHF1YWxpdHkgb2YgcHJp bnRlZCBib2FyZCBhc3NlbWJsaWVzPw0KIk5vIENsZWFuIiBxdWFsaXR5IG9mIHByaW50ZWQg Ym9hcmQgYXNzZW1ibGllcyBvbnRvIHdoaWNoIGRldmljZXMgaGF2ZQ0KYmVlbiBoYW5kLXNv bGRlcmVkPw0KICBhbmQgYWxsIG9mIHRoaXMgZm9yIHByb3RvdHlwZSBhbmQgc2VyaWVzIHBy b2R1Y3Rpb24/DQoNCkkgaGF2ZSBnbGVhbmVkIHNvbWUgaW5zaWdodHMgZnJvbSB0aGUgVGVj aE5ldCBhcmNoaXZlcywgYnV0IGFueQ0KYWRkaXRpb25hbCBpbnB1dCBpcyB2ZXJ5IHdlbGNv bWUuDQoNCkJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcw0KDQogIFZvbGttYXIgSHXfDQoNCiAgRW5naW5lZXJpbmcg RWxlY3Ryb25pYyBDaXJjdWl0IEJvYXJkcw0KICBBdWZiYXUtIHVuZCBWZXJiaW5kdW5nc3Rl Y2huaWsNCiAgXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBf DQoNCiAgRFLER0VSIEVMRUNUUk9OSUNTDQoNCiAgRHJhZWdlciBFbGVjdHJvbmljcyBHbWJI DQogIE1vaXNsaW5nZXIgQWxsZWUgNTMtNTUNCiAgRC0yMzU1OCBM/GJlY2sNCg0KICBUZWw6 ICAgKzQ5LTQ1MS04ODItMzk5OA0KICBGYXg6ICs0OS00NTEtODgyLTQzNjUNCiAgbWFpbHRv OnZvbGttYXIuaHVzc0BkcmFlZ2VyLmNvbQ0KICBXZWJzaXRlIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuZHJhZWdl ci5jb20vZGUvRUwNCiAgXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBf IF8gXyBfDQoNCi0tDQogIEJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcyAvIE1pdCBmcmV1bmRsaWNoZW4gR3L832Vu DQoNCiAgVm9sa21hciBIdd8NCg0KICBFbmdpbmVlcmluZyBFbGVjdHJvbmljIENpcmN1aXQg Qm9hcmRzDQogIEF1ZmJhdS0gdW5kIFZlcmJpbmR1bmdzdGVjaG5paw0KICBfIF8gXyBfIF8g XyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8NCg0KICBEUsRHRVIgRUxFQ1RS T05JQ1MNCg0KICBEcmFlZ2VyIEVsZWN0cm9uaWNzIEdtYkgNCiAgTW9pc2xpbmdlciBBbGxl ZSA1My01NQ0KICBELTIzNTU4IEz8YmVjaw0KDQogIFRlbDogICArNDktNDUxLTg4Mi0zOTk4 DQogIEZheDogKzQ5LTQ1MS04ODItNDM2NQ0KICBtYWlsdG86dm9sa21hci5odXNzQGRyYWVn ZXIuY29tDQogIFdlYnNpdGUgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5kcmFlZ2VyLmNvbS9kZS9FTA0KICBfIF8g XyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8gXyBfIF8NCg0KDQo= --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:57:48 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: large plastic blocks/bars needed X-To: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Phil, As if you don't already have enough choices to look into try, http://www.polymerplastics.com I have used them a few times, it's usually easy to get samples but I feel they are a bit pricey for cutting. Try to have a local shop do the final cuts. Dan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:18:05 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, jim <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: jim <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: large plastic blocks/bars needed X-To: "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The MSC catalog has these and all you have to do is cut them to length and width ( easily done on a band saw). give me a call if you need thier number or have any questions. Jim Gleason 972-494-1911 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 6:38 AM Subject: Re: [TN] large plastic blocks/bars needed > Call your local machine shop. They should have plenty of catalogs, possibly > material in house. > > Ed > > > At 02:12 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >Good afternoon all, > > > >We have a project that needs plastic blocks 6x10x12 (in inches). It can > >be Polyethylene (Low Density), Polyethylene (High Density), Polypropylene > >or PVC. "Bar stock" would also work as long as we can cut the above sized > >blocks out of it. > > > >Any ideas for a source? > > > >Thanks in advance, > > > >Phil Nutting > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > >SET Technet NOMAIL > >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > >E-mail Archives > >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > >ext.5315 > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:30:07 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, J G <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: J G <[log in to unmask]> Subject: I'm back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello everybody, Jason Gregory here. I've been off for a while due to employment reasons and looking forward to catching up. It's only been a week or so, but I know a lot can lost on Technet in only a week. Earl, contact me directly....I have questions for ya. Jason Gregory __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:06:58 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Ed Popielarski <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ed Popielarski <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: BGA reballing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C1D49D.33CCD360" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C1D49D.33CCD360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, One more temp excursion that hasn't been mentioned is the site prep of = the pads after de-soldering from the PCB and prior to reballing. We = developed a system that does this quite nicely with minimal risk of = lifting pads (something to worry about as well).=20 Our reballer uses a pallet that the devices go through reflow in which = acts as a heat sink for the topside of the BGA (the part is run balls = up, bottom side) minimizing thermal stress. There have been several = studies by fortune 500 companies to determine reliability and this = method has been approved, however, they are not willing to publish them = to the world at large. Once again, my two cents worth. Regards, Ed Popielarski QTA Machine 10 Mc Laren, Ste D Irvine, Ca. 92618 Phone:949-581-6601 Fax: 949-581-2448 Cel: 949-337-2578 WWW.QTA.NET ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C1D49D.33CCD360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One more temp excursion that hasn't = been mentioned=20 is the site prep of the pads after de-soldering from the PCB and prior = to=20 reballing. We developed a system that does this quite nicely with = minimal risk=20 of lifting pads (something to worry about as well). </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Our reballer uses a pallet that the = devices go=20 through reflow in which acts as a heat sink for the topside of the BGA = (the part=20 is run balls up, bottom side) minimizing thermal stress. There have been = several=20 studies by fortune 500 companies to determine reliability and this = method has=20 been approved, however, they are not willing to publish them to the = world at=20 large.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Once again, my two cents = worth.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ed Popielarski<BR>QTA Machine<BR>10 Mc = Laren, Ste=20 D<BR>Irvine, Ca. 92618</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Phone:949-581-6601<BR>Fax: = 949-581-2448<BR>Cel:=20 949-337-2578</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20 href=3D"http://www.QTA.NET">WWW.QTA.NET</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C1D49D.33CCD360-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:45:42 -0800 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: I'm back X-To: J G <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jason, Talk to me babe, Earl ----- Original Message ----- From: "J G" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 7:30 AM Subject: [TN] I'm back > Hello everybody, > Jason Gregory here. I've been off for a while due to > employment reasons and looking forward to catching up. > It's only been a week or so, but I know a lot can lost > on Technet in only a week. Earl, contact me > directly....I have questions for ya. > > Jason Gregory > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® > http://movies.yahoo.com/ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:25:26 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Measuring "No Clean" process quality X-To: Volkmar Huss <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit IPC/ANSI J-STD-004 estabishes methods classification and testing of fluxes. > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Volkmar Huss > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 9:37 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Measuring "No Clean" process quality > > > Hi TechNetters, > > we are working on defining our "No Clean" soldering process. The > solder-paste and flux manufacturers certify the "No Clean" capability of > > their products to some extend, but what is the definition of "No Clean"? > > And I don't mean the statement, that only inert residues of flux and > solder-paste additives remain on the board. > Are there any standards that can used as a reference? > How do you measure the: > "No Clean" capability of solder paste, flux and tubular solder with flux > > core? > "No Clean" quality of printed board assemblies? > "No Clean" quality of printed board assemblies onto which devices have > been hand-soldered? > and all of this for prototype and series production? > > I have gleaned some insights from the TechNet archives, but any > additional input is very welcome. > > Best regards > > Volkmar Huß > > Engineering Electronic Circuit Boards > Aufbau- und Verbindungstechnik > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > DRÄGER ELECTRONICS > > Draeger Electronics GmbH > Moislinger Allee 53-55 > D-23558 Lübeck > > Tel: +49-451-882-3998 > Fax: +49-451-882-4365 > mailto:[log in to unmask] > Website http://www.draeger.com/de/EL > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > -- > Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen > > Volkmar Huß > > Engineering Electronic Circuit Boards > Aufbau- und Verbindungstechnik > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > DRÄGER ELECTRONICS > > Draeger Electronics GmbH > Moislinger Allee 53-55 > D-23558 Lübeck > > Tel: +49-451-882-3998 > Fax: +49-451-882-4365 > mailto:[log in to unmask] > Website http://www.draeger.com/de/EL > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > > Mçëj) Ë®‹u籧yë®øy¼<+ x!$ ñÔº{nlj·zw™ëj > ²M!Tƒ9 Ø¢YÂ)µì {x `Ó¶ ¹¸r×zW > c Tr µ:zjª—(–×–+¯*Mçëzw™¨¶‚²Û®ør HDyÈzÓ0 N qèx㙨 xz·Ê‡–[zš¶Ë×j > ) ¸¶Ç¾*¢¸ 4r ´8zËyª†š¾*²š¶)±«Ã r :r䲋qëjÖjÇ f” > †+°ùjÇ È ðy»µè¶ŸÃ > ¥Êƒøš_¢»†Ù¢¶v+¢v w®f ‰Êµ§)æ…&jj‰«jÆ¢*¢¸¯ÎçOïMÆÞ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:03:14 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Ed Popielarski <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ed Popielarski <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Vitronics Isotherm 500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C1D4B5.D34D1D60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C1D4B5.D34D1D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I'm looking for a "used" manual for a Vitronics Isotherm 500C. Can = anyone help here? Regards, Ed Popielarski QTA Machine 10 Mc Laren, Ste D Irvine, Ca. 92618 Phone:949-581-6601 Fax: 949-581-2448 Cel: 949-337-2578 WWW.QTA.NET ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C1D4B5.D34D1D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm looking for a "used" manual for a = Vitronics=20 Isotherm 500C. Can anyone help here?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ed Popielarski<BR>QTA Machine<BR>10 Mc = Laren, Ste=20 D<BR>Irvine, Ca. 92618</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Phone:949-581-6601<BR>Fax: = 949-581-2448<BR>Cel:=20 949-337-2578</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20 href=3D"http://www.QTA.NET">WWW.QTA.NET</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C1D4B5.D34D1D60-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:14:56 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Double Sided Reflow Flux and surface tension Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hello Tech-Net users! I am new to the group here, and would like your assistance on a couple of matters concerning a double sided reflow process we are undertaking. We are new to this process, so we would appreciate any expertise on the matter. We are using an OA type solder paste, and like to wash our boards within 2 hours, 4 being the maximum in house limit. To perform our double sided reflow process in mass production, we may want to run all day on one side and do the other side the next. My question is... does any of the residual flux material aid the second reflow process, or can we wash it off before the second reflow and get as good of results? I am concerned that the solder joint may have an outer layer of oxidation or graininess due to the lack of flux once it reflows again. Is there any flux left over that is active, or is it simply the remainder of the carrier? What luck are people having with BGAs populated on the bottom side? Is there more of a concern with warp on the second pass? Is there a rule of thumb for the pad surface area / part weight ratio to maintain enough surface tension to correctly hold the part? Does anybody use adhesives to stake heavy parts on the first pass? Does anybody have a solid rule of thumb for pin-in-paste apertures? On our first try we used an 8 mil step up and had the aperture the same size as outer edge of the PTH. Would an oversize print work better? Thanks in advance for any help. Ed --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:00:56 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Double Sided Reflow Flux and surface tension X-To: Edward Wheeler <[log in to unmask]> Ed, You ask some of the best questions ever even though they've been covered before. I'm not one to welcome anyone but WELCOME. I'm only answering with no answers to ilicit more responses even though I've been involved in most of what you're attempting. It all works so stand by for some very specific answers to your postings. Earl Moon --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:45:09 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Vitronics Isotherm 500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_192.46cf8ad.29d245e5_boundary" --part1_192.46cf8ad.29d245e5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have you tried contacting Vitronics-Soltec and asking for a copy of the manual ? Their number (in Stratham, NH) is 603-772-7778. Phil Zarrow ITM Consulting Durham, NH USA www.ITM-SMT.com T: (603) 868-1754 F: (603) 868-3623 EM:[log in to unmask] --part1_192.46cf8ad.29d245e5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Have you tried contacting Vitronics-Soltec and asking for a copy of the manual ? Their number (in Stratham, NH) is 603-772-7778. <BR> <BR> Phil Zarrow<BR> <BR> <B>ITM Consulting <BR> Durham, NH USA<BR> www.ITM-SMT.com<BR> T: (603) 868-1754<BR> F: (603) 868-3623<BR> EM:[log in to unmask]</B></FONT></HTML> --part1_192.46cf8ad.29d245e5_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:33:27 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> Subject: ICT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" G'day Was asked if I could come up with some information on ICT. Where can I find if any on standards that govern ICT "if any" or how to's on fixturing etc. Barry. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:32:58 +0200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Measuring "No Clean" process quality X-To: Volkmar Huss <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Volkmar Manufacturers of fluxes produce and sell a wide range of fluxes which are sold as "no-clean". Some contain rosin, others don't. Some contain halogenated activators, others don't. Some are very active and are consequently easy to solder with, but leave more dangerous residues, others don't, but are the devil to solder with. Some you can clean, others you cannot. To answer your questions: you have to select a shortlist of, say, 5 fluxes which meet your criteria, on paper. You then do extensive trials, with various parameters (Taguchi is very useful for this, as you can cut the number of experiments drastically). After having optimised the process for each flux, you have to produce some test boards that you need to qualify as meeting your requirements for reliability under the conditions the boards will be used in (electrochemical migration etc.) and for setting up your process for quality control. As a result of this, you can select your #1 candidate and #2 to fall back on if there is an interruption of supply. No one here can do your homework for you, I'm afraid. Brian Volkmar Huss wrote: > > Hi TechNetters, > > we are working on defining our "No Clean" soldering process. The > solder-paste and flux manufacturers certify the "No Clean" capability of > > their products to some extend, but what is the definition of "No Clean"? > > And I don't mean the statement, that only inert residues of flux and > solder-paste additives remain on the board. > Are there any standards that can used as a reference? > How do you measure the: > "No Clean" capability of solder paste, flux and tubular solder with flux > > core? > "No Clean" quality of printed board assemblies? > "No Clean" quality of printed board assemblies onto which devices have > been hand-soldered? > and all of this for prototype and series production? > > I have gleaned some insights from the TechNet archives, but any > additional input is very welcome. > > Best regards > > Volkmar Huß > > Engineering Electronic Circuit Boards > Aufbau- und Verbindungstechnik > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > DRÄGER ELECTRONICS > > Draeger Electronics GmbH > Moislinger Allee 53-55 > D-23558 Lübeck > > Tel: +49-451-882-3998 > Fax: +49-451-882-4365 > mailto:[log in to unmask] > Website http://www.draeger.com/de/EL > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > -- > Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen > > Volkmar Huß > > Engineering Electronic Circuit Boards > Aufbau- und Verbindungstechnik > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > DRÄGER ELECTRONICS > > Draeger Electronics GmbH > Moislinger Allee 53-55 > D-23558 Lübeck > > Tel: +49-451-882-3998 > Fax: +49-451-882-4365 > mailto:[log in to unmask] > Website http://www.draeger.com/de/EL > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > Mç!ëLj)K Ëi®‹âuçZ±§ëyë ®øœy¼ˆ<+¬ x!$Ò uñÔèº{.nÇ+‰·¬zwZ™ë,j ² M! TƒÂ9 ° Ø_¢YhÂ)àµìm {ax ƒ`Ó“¶ ¬¹¸Þr×âzWR cN TÞr Þµ:-zjhªâ—(Z–×^–+Þ¯* Mç!ëlzw^™¨¥¶‚â²Û ®ø©r àHDÓyÈgzÓN0 N Þqè¯xãD™¨¥ x)z·Zʇږ[azš,¶Ë צj)m ¸¬¶Ç«¾*\¢¸ 4Þr Þ´8 zËRyªÜ†šÞ¾*.²š,¶)౫pà ©r à:râä^²‹«që jÖ›jǬ f¢” > ܆+Þ°ù^jǯ È ð°y»"µèm¶ŸÿÃ"¥Ê+ƒømš_ߢ»¦†ÙŸ¢¶v+b¢v¥ wè®f ‰èÊ'µ§-)朅&¬jj+‰«ljƤ¢*\¢¸(¯Î;çO}ïM ÆÞw15== --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:38:48 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: SIGNON Technet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This e-mail may contain SEL confidential information. The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of SEL. Any unauthorized disclosure, distribution or other use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender, permanently delete it, and destroy any printout. Thank you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:32:32 +1100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, DUTTON Phil <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: DUTTON Phil <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ICT X-To: Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Barry, IPC-2221 3.5 has some good info on testing and In Circuit Testing design requirements. Can be quite involved, and the circuit design needs to consider the test requirements as well. Test probe lands are typically 0.040" and pitched at 0.100" centres for bed-of-nails type test fixtures. Different types/sizes of probe pins are available. Good idea to talk to the people who will be testing your boards very early. Phil Dutton C.I.D. Senior CAD Technician IPC Certified Interconnect Designer -----Original Message----- From: Barry Gallegos [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, 27 March 2002 09:03 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] ICT G'day Was asked if I could come up with some information on ICT. Where can I find if any on standards that govern ICT "if any" or how to's on fixturing etc. Barry. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:45:25 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Thin Laminates with low dielectric constant.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Just checking with everyone, but looking for a laminate that can stay at 3-mils with half ounce copper plated for the features, and can maintain a Er of 3-5...know that's asking a lot...we're trying to push the envelope with a VME card, and use Stablecor material...I think that Stablecor has great potential...just gotta shrink everything else. Found a site that talks about a product called SpeedBoard C that is very thin, and improves the dielectric constant when used with standard core materials. Go to: http://www.goreelectronics.com/products/dielectric_materials/Speedboard_C_Prep reg.cfm Trying to pack a 16-layer board (including Stablecor material) to stay under .070"...fun stuff huh? Have any of you had any experience with SpeedBoard C? As always, thanks in advance... -Steve Gregory- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:48:52 +0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Conformal Coating BGA's X-To: "Misner, Bruce" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Bruce, We apply Humiseal acrylic coating to boards that fit your description and application precisely, except that we do underfill the BGA's with a reworkable epoxy, applied after assembly. The only exception was for the case of two boards destined for temperature cycling measurement, for which we couldn't get a supply of underfill material at the time. We substituted thinned Humiseal as the boards would not be flying, as we were concerned about entrapped air and also no suuport for the BGA joints. Humiseal is not a proper substitute for the specialised proper epoxy, but was sufficient for our particular purpose. The main issue as I see it would be moisture and other contaminants in the entrapped air, but I have no first hand data to help you decide if that causes problems or not. Good luck Peter "Misner, Bruce" To: [log in to unmask] <Bruce_Misner cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST @ATK.COM> Aero/ST Group) Sent by: Subject: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's TechNet <[log in to unmask] ORG> 03/20/02 03:48 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Misner, Bruce" My question of the day: Is anyone conformal coating (not parylene) plastic BGA's on FR-4 in Hi-Rel applications (aircraft; -20 to +71C ambient operating temperature requirement) without benefit of an underfil? If yes, has entrapped air been a major issue? Anyone care to comment on this approach? Regards, Bruce Misner --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you.] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:20:25 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Measuring "No Clean" process quality X-To: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Brian, Well said!!! Particularly the qualification testing part! David A. Douthit Manager LoCan LLC Brian Ellis wrote: > Volkmar > > Manufacturers of fluxes produce and sell a wide range of fluxes which > are sold as "no-clean". Some contain rosin, others don't. Some contain > halogenated activators, others don't. Some are very active and are > consequently easy to solder with, but leave more dangerous residues, > others don't, but are the devil to solder with. Some you can clean, > others you cannot. > > To answer your questions: you have to select a shortlist of, say, 5 > fluxes which meet your criteria, on paper. You then do extensive trials, > with various parameters (Taguchi is very useful for this, as you can cut > the number of experiments drastically). After having optimised the > process for each flux, you have to produce some test boards that you > need to qualify as meeting your requirements for reliability under the > conditions the boards will be used in (electrochemical migration etc.) > and for setting up your process for quality control. As a result of > this, you can select your #1 candidate and #2 to fall back on if there > is an interruption of supply. No one here can do your homework for you, > I'm afraid. > > Brian > > Volkmar Huss wrote: > > > > Hi TechNetters, > > > > we are working on defining our "No Clean" soldering process. The > > solder-paste and flux manufacturers certify the "No Clean" capability of > > > > their products to some extend, but what is the definition of "No Clean"? > > > > And I don't mean the statement, that only inert residues of flux and > > solder-paste additives remain on the board. > > Are there any standards that can used as a reference? > > How do you measure the: > > "No Clean" capability of solder paste, flux and tubular solder with flux > > > > core? > > "No Clean" quality of printed board assemblies? > > "No Clean" quality of printed board assemblies onto which devices have > > been hand-soldered? > > and all of this for prototype and series production? > > > > I have gleaned some insights from the TechNet archives, but any > > additional input is very welcome. > > > > Best regards > > > > Volkmar Huß > > > > Engineering Electronic Circuit Boards > > Aufbau- und Verbindungstechnik > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > > > DRÄGER ELECTRONICS > > > > Draeger Electronics GmbH > > Moislinger Allee 53-55 > > D-23558 Lübeck > > > > Tel: +49-451-882-3998 > > Fax: +49-451-882-4365 > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > Website http://www.draeger.com/de/EL > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > > > -- > > Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen > > > > Volkmar Huß > > > > Engineering Electronic Circuit Boards > > Aufbau- und Verbindungstechnik > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > > > DRÄGER ELECTRONICS > > > > Draeger Electronics GmbH > > Moislinger Allee 53-55 > > D-23558 Lübeck > > > > Tel: +49-451-882-3998 > > Fax: +49-451-882-4365 > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > Website http://www.draeger.com/de/EL > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > > > Mç!*ëLj)K Ëi®?âuçZ±§ëyë ®øœy*ˆ<+¬ x!$Ò uñÔèº{.nÇ+‰·¬zwZ™ë,j ? 2 M! TƒÂ9 ° Ø_¢YhÂ)àµìm {ax ƒ`Ó“¶ ¬1¸?rxâzWR cN T?r ?µ:-zjh?ªâ—(Z?x^?+?¯* Mç!*ëlzw^™¨¥¶‚â2Û ®ø©r àHDÓyÈgzÓN0 N ?qè¯xãD™¨¥ x)z·ZÊ?Ú?[azs,¶Ë *x|j)m ¸¬¶Ç«**\¢¸ 4?r ?´8 zËRyªÜ?s?**.2s,¶)౫pà ©r à:râ*ä^2?«që jÖ?jǬ f¢” > > Ü?+?°ù^jǯ È? ?°y»"µèm¶ŸÿÃ"¥Ê+ƒøms_ߢ»|?ÙŸ¢¶*v+b¢v¥ wè®f? ‰è?Ê'µ§-)朅&¬jj+‰«ljÆ€¢*\¢¸(¯Î;çO}ïM Æ?w15== > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:04:33 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: another materials question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_157.b36cee5.29d2baf1_boundary" --part1_157.b36cee5.29d2baf1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm learning about laminate materials and read with interest several recent tecnet emails on the subject. I'd like to submit a question about a particular construction that is a challenge with respect to registration. The construction is all 2 core and 3 core. The prepregs are 1-106 and 1-1080, which I have learned are described as resin rich. The construction is balanced with respect to copper weights, glass styles, core thicknesses, and prepreg openings. What I am observing with this part is variation in how much certain cores shrink, lot to lot, and variation that I would describe as a shift or possibly a rotation in some of the internal layers. Am I correct in assuming that these thin cores and these particular prepregs will contribute to lower yields due to misregistration? If anyone would care to offer up ideas on how to tackle the registration challenge that I am observing on this kind of construction, I would appreciate hearing your ideas. Mark J. --part1_157.b36cee5.29d2baf1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>I'm learning about laminate materials and read with interest several recent tecnet emails on the subject. <BR>I'd like to submit a question about a particular construction that is a challenge with respect to registration. <BR> <BR>The construction is all 2 core and 3 core. The prepregs are 1-106 and 1-1080, which I have learned are described as resin rich. The construction is balanced with respect to copper weights, glass styles, core thicknesses, and prepreg openings. <BR> <BR>What I am observing with this part is variation in how much certain cores shrink, lot to lot, <BR>and variation that I would describe as a shift or possibly a rotation in some of the internal layers. <BR> <BR>Am I correct in assuming that these thin cores and these particular prepregs will contribute to lower yields due to misregistration? If anyone would care to offer up ideas on how to tackle the registration challenge that I am observing on this kind of construction, I would appreciate hearing your ideas. <BR> <BR>Mark J.</FONT></HTML> --part1_157.b36cee5.29d2baf1_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:11:27 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Measuring "No Clean" process quality X-To: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brian,=20 short and to the point, really a nice one. But knowing a bit about the special situation, and I think that=B4s = also true for many other small- and mediumsize CM=B4s, there is no or only vague knowledge regarding the precise requirements for reliability under (sometimes)not very well known conditions. It=B4s also often a question of time and resources to perform all = necessary steps to get where you want or need to be. The first and IMHO most important step is to agree on the criteria one = wants to meet, the rest is business and routine. To master this first = "obstacle" it might be best for many in the same situation to look for external assistance especially regarding the necessary testing that has to be = done during qualifying. In Volkmars case I would discuss that topic also with ISIT, an = institute that does a lot of the needed qualification tests and offers consulting = for the electronic industry. I think he knows the contact already. Greetings from sunny but still cold Hamburg Wolfgang > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 12:33 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Measuring "No Clean" process quality >=20 >=20 > Volkmar >=20 > Manufacturers of fluxes produce and sell a wide range of fluxes which > are sold as "no-clean". Some contain rosin, others don't. Some = contain > halogenated activators, others don't. Some are very active and are > consequently easy to solder with, but leave more dangerous residues, > others don't, but are the devil to solder with. Some you can clean, > others you cannot. >=20 > To answer your questions: you have to select a shortlist of, say, 5 > fluxes which meet your criteria, on paper. You then do=20 > extensive trials, > with various parameters (Taguchi is very useful for this, as=20 > you can cut > the number of experiments drastically). After having optimised the > process for each flux, you have to produce some test boards that you > need to qualify as meeting your requirements for reliability under = the > conditions the boards will be used in (electrochemical migration = etc.) > and for setting up your process for quality control. As a result of > this, you can select your #1 candidate and #2 to fall back on if = there > is an interruption of supply. No one here can do your=20 > homework for you, > I'm afraid. >=20 > Brian >=20 > Volkmar Huss wrote: > > > > Hi TechNetters, > > > > we are working on defining our "No Clean" soldering process. The > > solder-paste and flux manufacturers certify the "No Clean"=20 > capability of > > > > their products to some extend, but what is the definition=20 > of "No Clean"? > > > > And I don't mean the statement, that only inert residues of flux = and > > solder-paste additives remain on the board. > > Are there any standards that can used as a reference? > > How do you measure the: > > "No Clean" capability of solder paste, flux and tubular=20 > solder with flux > > > > core? > > "No Clean" quality of printed board assemblies? > > "No Clean" quality of printed board assemblies onto which=20 > devices have > > been hand-soldered? > > and all of this for prototype and series production? > > > > I have gleaned some insights from the TechNet archives, but any > > additional input is very welcome. > > > > Best regards > > > > Volkmar Hu=DF > > > > Engineering Electronic Circuit Boards > > Aufbau- und Verbindungstechnik > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > > > DR=C4GER ELECTRONICS > > > > Draeger Electronics GmbH > > Moislinger Allee 53-55 > > D-23558 L=FCbeck > > > > Tel: +49-451-882-3998 > > Fax: +49-451-882-4365 > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > Website http://www.draeger.com/de/EL > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > > > -- > > Best regards / Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen > > > > Volkmar Hu=DF > > > > Engineering Electronic Circuit Boards > > Aufbau- und Verbindungstechnik > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > > > DR=C4GER ELECTRONICS > > > > Draeger Electronics GmbH > > Moislinger Allee 53-55 > > D-23558 L=FCbeck > > > > Tel: +49-451-882-3998 > > Fax: +49-451-882-4365 > > mailto:[log in to unmask] > > Website http://www.draeger.com/de/EL > > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > > > M=E7!=9D=EBLj)K =CBi=AE<=E2u=E7Z=B1=A7=EBy=EB =AE=F8oey=BC^<+=AC = x!$=D2 =20 > u=F1=D4=E8=BA{.n=C7+?=B7=ACzwZ(tm)=EB,j =AD =B2 M! Tf=C29 =B0 = =D8_=A2Yh=C2)=E0=B5=ECm {ax f`=D3"=B6=20 > =AC=B9=B8=DEr=D7=E2zWR cN T=DEr =DE=B5:-zjh=AD=AA=E2-(Z-=D7^-+=DE=AF* = M=E7!=9D=EBlzw^(tm)=A8=A5=B6'=E2=B2=DB=20 > =AE=F8=A9r =E0HD=D3y=C8gz=D3N0 N =DEq=E8=AFx=E3D(tm)=A8=A5 = x)z=B7Z=CA?=DA-[azs,=B6=CB =9D=D7=A6j)m=20 > =B8=AC=B6=C7=AB=BE*\=A2=B8 4=DEr =DE=B48 = z=CBRy=AA=DC?s=DE=BE*.=B2s,=B6)=E0=B1=ABp=C3 =A9r = =E0:r=E2=9D=E4^=B2<=ABq=EB j=D6>j=C7=AC f=A2" > > =DC?+=DE=B0=F9^j=C7=AF =C8=AD = =F0=B0y=BB"=B5=E8m=B6Y=FF=C3"=A5=CA+f=F8ms_=DF=A2=BB=A6?=D9Y=A2=B6=9Dv+b= =A2v=A5 w=E8=AEf=AD=20 > = ?=E8=AD=CA'=B5=A7-)=E6oe...&=ACjj+?=ABlj=C6=A4=A2*\=A2=B8(=AF=CE;=E7O}=EF= M =C6=DEw15=3D=3D >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using=20 > LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with=20 > following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to=20 > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail=20 > to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources=20 > & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm=20 > for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or=20 > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------- >=20 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:25:12 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Thin Laminates with low dielectric constant.. X-To: [log in to unmask] Steve, The Gore material works well. As we've discussed before, and as I indicated in Marks questions, this is, currently, a highly specialized part of the MLB world. I know you must do what you need and have selected one or more qualified suppliers with many more lurking in the wings. The big caustion, as you already know, is those lurking having transitioned from more common board types to hi-rel types. Gore presents its lamination press cycles to get full "cure." This is a two stage press cycle (A and B( and a critical cool down cycle. The cycles are similar to other "hi-rel" MLB requirements as polyimide and GTEK. The "ordinary" fab folks are very happy with a much simpler cycle going to full pressure and temperature in one big move for about 90 minutes and POP, it's out of there and enjoyed by all commercial folks. As for the thin core/preg stuff, I outlined that in my response to Mark below. No matter, we must continue pushing the envelope in all we do, so why not here. You live the good life Steve, according to: The MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:08:36 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: another materials question X-To: [log in to unmask] Mark, Good study and good questions though I wrote a much better reply before but it didn't take because of my ignorance in taking too much time the first time. So, here goes again. Mark: I'm learning about laminate materials and read with interest several recent tecnet emails on the subject. I'd like to submit a question about a particular construction that is a challenge with respect to registration. Earl: Wish I simply copy what I wrote earlier. Registration, as all specified requirements, suffers when bad design choices are made concerning material selections and MLB constructions. You already know that. Mark: The construction is all 2 core and 3 core. The prepregs are 1-106 and 1-1080, which I have learned are described as resin rich. The construction is balanced with respect to copper weights, glass styles, core thicknesses, and prepreg openings. Earl: Unless selecting and using relatively exotic materials, you must stay away from very thin core/preg materials for several reasons. If you're serious about making your own capacitance cores you must consider foil choices as not ED copper unless tooth faicing out. Of course, there is a patent issues as well though I still don't know why. You will need to use rolled copper unless as stated above with ED. Again, because the thin core/pregs are so resin rich, you face dimensional issues both in the press and in product significantly reducing yelds mostly because of misregistration issues. Mark: What I am observing with this part is variation in how much certain cores shrink, lot to lot, and variation that I would describe as a shift or possibly a rotation in some of the internal layers. Earl: Don't know all what you mean by shrinkage but core variability should not be an as received issue. It is when married with very thin, resin rich stuff as you describe (106 and 1080). These glass styles are so juicy they slip and slide in the press and books therein. I have images depicting relamination dynamics and, if you wish, I'll ask Steve Gregory to post them. There is so much more to this, but the general idea, unless pushing the envelope like Steve, you should carefully consider your options as design compromises faced every day by GOOD designers and fabricators. I wanted to write more, and did before this, but time prohibits. Best wishes, Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:38:58 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: another materials question X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1D56A.D6931E60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1D56A.D6931E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, You should not assume that poor yields are a result of material = shrinkage. A good board fabrication shop should be able to predict how much = shrinkage occurs during normal fabrication of one's laminate. Yes shrinkage does = vary from supplier to supplier, but it should be consistent. For instance we = here at AIT use a ton of .005 1/1 cores and we will compensate(scale) the = image so that by the time the board is complete it will be at 1:1. This may = mean that we start a job some .015-.03 over 1:1 in the beginning. Tony Steinke ----- Original Message -----=20 From: [log in to unmask] To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 10:04 PM Subject: [TN] another materials question I'm learning about laminate materials and read with interest several = recent tecnet emails on the subject.=20 I'd like to submit a question about a particular construction that is = a challenge with respect to registration.=20 The construction is all 2 core and 3 core. The prepregs are 1-106 and = 1-1080, which I have learned are described as resin rich. The = construction is balanced with respect to copper weights, glass styles, = core thicknesses, and prepreg openings.=20 What I am observing with this part is variation in how much certain = cores shrink, lot to lot,=20 and variation that I would describe as a shift or possibly a rotation = in some of the internal layers. =20 Am I correct in assuming that these thin cores and these particular = prepregs will contribute to lower yields due to misregistration? If = anyone would care to offer up ideas on how to tackle the registration = challenge that I am observing on this kind of construction, I would = appreciate hearing your ideas.=20 Mark J.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1D56A.D6931E60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#fff8e0> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You should not assume that poor yields = are a result=20 of material shrinkage.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A good board fabrication shop should be = able to=20 predict how much shrinkage</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>occurs during normal fabrication of = one's laminate.=20 Yes shrinkage does vary</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>from supplier to supplier, but it = should be=20 consistent. For instance we here</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>at AIT use a ton of .005 1/1 cores and = we will=20 compensate(scale) the image</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>so that by the time the board is = complete it will=20 be at 1:1. This may mean</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>that we start a job some .015-.03 over = 1:1 in the=20 beginning.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tony Steinke</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A [log in to unmask] = href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 26, 2002 = 10:04=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TN] another materials = question</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>I'm = learning about=20 laminate materials and read with interest several recent tecnet emails = on the=20 subject. <BR>I'd like to submit a question about a particular = construction=20 that is a challenge with respect to registration. <BR><BR>The = construction is=20 all 2 core and 3 core. The prepregs are 1-106 and 1-1080, which = I have=20 learned are described as resin rich. The construction is = balanced=20 with respect to copper weights, glass styles, core thicknesses, and = prepreg=20 openings. <BR><BR>What I am observing with this part is variation in = how much=20 certain cores shrink, lot to lot, <BR>and variation that I would = describe as a=20 shift or possibly a rotation in some of the internal layers. = <BR><BR>Am=20 I correct in assuming that these thin cores and these particular = prepregs will=20 contribute to lower yields due to misregistration? If = anyone would=20 care to offer up ideas on how to tackle the registration challenge = that I am=20 observing on this kind of construction, I would appreciate hearing = your ideas.=20 <BR><BR>Mark J.</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1D56A.D6931E60-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:48:00 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ICT X-To: DUTTON Phil <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Barry, If your board is highly populated, and test point space is at a premium, you can go do to a .035 square pad on .070 centers. But you need a very good fixture house. Good luck, Kerry -----Original Message----- From: DUTTON Phil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 7:33 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] ICT Hello Barry, IPC-2221 3.5 has some good info on testing and In Circuit Testing design requirements. Can be quite involved, and the circuit design needs to consider the test requirements as well. Test probe lands are typically 0.040" and pitched at 0.100" centres for bed-of-nails type test fixtures. Different types/sizes of probe pins are available. Good idea to talk to the people who will be testing your boards very early. Phil Dutton C.I.D. Senior CAD Technician IPC Certified Interconnect Designer -----Original Message----- From: Barry Gallegos [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, 27 March 2002 09:03 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] ICT G'day Was asked if I could come up with some information on ICT. Where can I find if any on standards that govern ICT "if any" or how to's on fixturing etc. Barry. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:19:00 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Ken Hafften <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ken Hafften <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Imaging Clean Rooms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are in the process of evaluating our clean room for inner and outer layer circuit imaging. I am interested in finding out more information on the use of clean rooms for printed circuit processing, particularly imaging. This would include not only clean room requirements for imaging .003" lines but also methods to achieve the required level of cleanliness. There seems to be alot of information for processing microelectronics but not for printed circuits. Thanks in advance for any help. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:08:22 -0800 Reply-To: Leo Roos <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Leo Roos <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Imaging Clean Rooms X-To: Ken Hafften <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some years ago PCFab had a series of articles in the same issue addressing clean rooms. Major article was written by Bob Almond of Dupont. It provided a great deal of information that we used in the building of our own clean rooms. You might also try Dr. Karl Dietz ant Dupont, located at RTP, NC. Leo Roos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Hafften" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 6:19 AM Subject: [TN] Imaging Clean Rooms > We are in the process of evaluating our clean room for inner and outer layer > circuit imaging. I am interested in finding out more information on the use > of clean rooms for printed circuit processing, particularly imaging. This > would include not only clean room requirements for imaging .003" lines but > also methods to achieve the required level of cleanliness. There seems to > be alot of information for processing microelectronics but not for printed > circuits. Thanks in advance for any help. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:05:45 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: another materials question X-To: [log in to unmask] Outstanding Tony. Your statistical database must be extensive. Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:11:45 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Subject: solder mask tape dots MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is another question for all you gurus. We have a hand build, through hole circuit board that has 8 locations = that must be free of solder for the next level of assembly. So far I = can only find solder mask tape dots at Contact East. Are there any other = suppliers out there? Our terminal measures 0.28 inch diameter, so a = 0.3" pad might be just the thing. Thanks in advance, Phil --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:15:17 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: another materials question X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPartTM-000-55ad74b0-4191-11d6-9bf6-00508bf7df76" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------=_NextPartTM-000-55ad74b0-4191-11d6-9bf6-00508bf7df76 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D5A2.33A19410" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D5A2.33A19410 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Mark, You should be able to dial this job in like any other but it may take an iterative process. Thin core shouldn't translate into always having lower yields - it might require tweaking the artwork comp. factors. Thinner materials do like to shrink up (relax) once you etch the copper off. Good registration requires understanding what the materials are doing through the imaging to lamination processes. I'm stronger in the lam department than artwork area but somebody else can cover for me. If you really do have excessive core shrinkage (lot to lot) then I'd get your lam supplier in there double quick to explain what's going on in their process. Have you verified that your Artwork, Imaging & Lamination process is in control? Artwork - temp. & humidity within spec., best available artwork comp. factors per sheet. Imaging - Artwork & core stabilized, job running on one imaging unit Lamination - Lamin. Pins and Bushings not overly worn, PEP data consistent It sounds like you are having random registration problems - is that true on all your layers or only some? Can you describe the misregistration better? Hans ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hans M. Hinners Electronics Engineer Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE) 226 Cochran Street Robins AFB GA 31098-1622 mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Com: (478) 926 - 5224 Fax: (478) 926 - 4911 DSN Prefix: 468 -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 1:05 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] another materials question I'm learning about laminate materials and read with interest several recent tecnet emails on the subject. I'd like to submit a question about a particular construction that is a challenge with respect to registration. The construction is all 2 core and 3 core. The prepregs are 1-106 and 1-1080, which I have learned are described as resin rich. The construction is balanced with respect to copper weights, glass styles, core thicknesses, and prepreg openings. What I am observing with this part is variation in how much certain cores shrink, lot to lot, and variation that I would describe as a shift or possibly a rotation in some of the internal layers. Am I correct in assuming that these thin cores and these particular prepregs will contribute to lower yields due to misregistration? If anyone would care to offer up ideas on how to tackle the registration challenge that I am observing on this kind of construction, I would appreciate hearing your ideas. Mark J. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D5A2.33A19410 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff>Hi Mark,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff>You should be able to dial this job in like any other but it may take an iterative process. Thin core shouldn't translate into always having lower yields - it might require tweaking the artwork comp. factors. Thinner materials do like to shrink up (relax) once you etch the copper off.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff>Good registration requires understanding what the materials are doing through the imaging to lamination processes. I'm stronger in the lam department than artwork area but somebody else can cover for me. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002> <FONT color=#0000ff>If you really do have excessive core shrinkage (lot to lot) then I'd get your lam supplier in there double quick to explain what's going on in their process. Have you verified that your Artwork, Imaging & Lamination process is in control? </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff>Artwork - temp. & humidity within spec., best available artwork comp. factors per sheet.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff>Imaging - Artwork & core stabilized, job running on one imaging unit</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff>Lamination - Lamin. Pins and Bushings not overly worn, PEP data consistent</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff>It sounds like you are having random registration problems - is that true on all your layers or only some? Can you describe the misregistration better?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff>Hans</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><BR><FONT face=Verdana>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>Hans M. Hinners</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>Electronics Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>226 Cochran Street</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>Robins AFB GA 31098-1622</FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <P><FONT face=Verdana><A href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Verdana>Com: (478) 926 - 5224</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Verdana>Fax: (478) 926 - 4911</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>DSN Prefix: 468</FONT> </P></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=109463214-27032002><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 27, 2002 1:05 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] another materials question<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>I'm learning about laminate materials and read with interest several recent tecnet emails on the subject. <BR>I'd like to submit a question about a particular construction that is a challenge with respect to registration. <BR><BR>The construction is all 2 core and 3 core. The prepregs are 1-106 and 1-1080, which I have learned are described as resin rich. The construction is balanced with respect to copper weights, glass styles, core thicknesses, and prepreg openings. <BR><BR>What I am observing with this part is variation in how much certain cores shrink, lot to lot, <BR>and variation that I would describe as a shift or possibly a rotation in some of the internal layers. <BR><BR>Am I correct in assuming that these thin cores and these particular prepregs will contribute to lower yields due to misregistration? If anyone would care to offer up ideas on how to tackle the registration challenge that I am observing on this kind of construction, I would appreciate hearing your ideas. <BR><BR>Mark J.</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D5A2.33A19410-- ------=_NextPartTM-000-55ad74b0-4191-11d6-9bf6-00508bf7df76-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:16:03 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Thin Laminates with low dielectric constant.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve, Have you thought of using Kapton (adhesiveless -offcourse) to build the brd with. THis is very proven technology (rigid-flex). Pricy, but can't imagine it to be much more than SpeedBoard. We have build brds with Kapton to provide thin brds w/ high layer count. Benefits:- 1) Er of 3.2-3.6. 2) Can use 2 mil thick material.. 2 mil thick has been used in rigid-flex for years. Call offline if you want to discuss further. Rush 818.768.3919 www.accueng.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:29:48 +0200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Measuring "No Clean" process quality X-To: Volkmar Huss <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bruno As they say in the country where I used to live, "Groezi wohl" to kalt Hamburg. Yes, I agree that outside consultancy can help and probably be cheaper in the long run, provided that Volkmar has researched the problem sufficiently to be able to define the terms of reference. If he leaves this open-ended, then it will cost zillions and may not get optimum results. My experience as a consultant is that most clients approach me saying that they want to change from x cleaning method to y cleaning method or z not to clean at all, without having a clue what is involved. It typically doubles the cost of the consultancy if they have not previously defined at least a baseline, because the act of definition gives them a much clearer mind and how to go about it. Another stumbling block is that, prior to visiting the site, I'm sometimes misinformed as to things like available equipment, end use conditions etc. which means that my preparation is often of limited use (I minimalise preparation, now, for that reason). Greetings from a cold and sunny Washington DC (back to the warmth of Cyprus by Friday!). Brian Volkmar Huss wrote: > > Hi TechNetters, > > we are working on defining our "No Clean" soldering process. The > solder-paste and flux manufacturers certify the "No Clean" capability of > > their products to some extend, but what is the definition of "No Clean"? > > And I don't mean the statement, that only inert residues of flux and > solder-paste additives remain on the board. > Are there any standards that can used as a reference? > How do you measure the: > "No Clean" capability of solder paste, flux and tubular solder with flux > > core? > "No Clean" quality of printed board assemblies? > "No Clean" quality of printed board assemblies onto which devices have > been hand-soldered? > and all of this for prototype and series production? > > I have gleaned some insights from the TechNet archives, but any > additional input is very welcome. > > Best regards > > Volkmar Huß > > Engineering Electronic Circuit Boards > Aufbau- und Verbindungstechnik > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > DRÄGER ELECTRONICS > > Draeger Electronics GmbH > Moislinger Allee 53-55 > D-23558 Lübeck > > Tel: +49-451-882-3998 > Fax: +49-451-882-4365 > mailto:[log in to unmask] > Website http://www.draeger.com/de/EL > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > -- > Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen > > Volkmar Huß > > Engineering Electronic Circuit Boards > Aufbau- und Verbindungstechnik > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > DRÄGER ELECTRONICS > > Draeger Electronics GmbH > Moislinger Allee 53-55 > D-23558 Lübeck > > Tel: +49-451-882-3998 > Fax: +49-451-882-4365 > mailto:[log in to unmask] > Website http://www.draeger.com/de/EL > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > Mç!ëLj)K Ëi®‹âuçZ±§ëyë ®øœy¼ˆ<+¬ x!$Ò uñÔèº{.nÇ+‰·¬zwZ™ë,j ² M! TƒÂ9 ° Ø_¢YhÂ)àµìm {ax ƒ`Ó“¶ ¬¹¸Þr×âzWR cN TÞr Þµ:-zjhªâ—(Z–×^–+Þ¯* Mç!ëlzw^™¨¥¶‚â²Û ®ø©r àHDÓyÈgzÓN0 N Þqè¯xãD™¨¥ x)z·Zʇږ[azš,¶Ë צj)m ¸¬¶Ç«¾*\¢¸ 4Þr Þ´8 zËRyªÜ†šÞ¾*.²š,¶)౫pà ©r à:râä^²‹«që jÖ›jǬ f¢” > ܆+Þ°ù^jǯ È ð°y»"µèm¶ŸÿÃ"¥Ê+ƒømš_ߢ»¦†ÙŸ¢¶v+b¢v¥ wè®f ‰èÊ'µ§-)朅&¬jj+‰«ljƤ¢*\¢¸(¯Î;çO}ïM ÆÞw15== --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:55:03 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder mask tape dots MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain What about peelable solder mask Phil? Regards, Ioan > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Nutting [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 10:12 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] solder mask tape dots > > Here is another question for all you gurus. > > We have a hand build, through hole circuit board that has 8 locations that > must be free of solder for the next level of assembly. So far I can only > find solder mask tape dots at Contact East. Are there any other suppliers > out there? Our terminal measures 0.28 inch diameter, so a 0.3" pad might > be just the thing. > > Thanks in advance, > > Phil > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:12:14 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Howard Watson <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Howard Watson <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Double Sided Reflow Flux and surface tension X-To: "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 005E44D587256B89_=" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 005E44D587256B89_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ed, I can't answer your questions regarding the OA flux and BGA's, but I can help with your other questions: "Is there a rule of thumb for the pad surface area / part weight ratio to maintain enough surface tension to correctly hold the part?" Yes, as stated in previous TechNet threads on the subject, the "rule of thumb" formula is the weight of the component in grams / Total pad mating area in square inches. The resulting value in grams per sq. in. must be less than 30. "Does anybody use adhesives to stake heavy parts on the first pass?" No I don't, but it shouldn't cause you any worries. There are issues with thermal balance and back to back components that you will need to investigate to obtain the proper reflow. "Does anybody have a solid rule of thumb for pin-in-paste apertures? On our first try we used an 8 mil step up and had the aperture the same size as outer edge of the PTH. Would an oversize print work better?" The key is to get a sufficient amount of solder fill in the hole and to provide for good fillets. A simple formula to use for paste required is: Vp = [Vh - Vl]x Fh x Sp ,where: Vp = The "target" volume of paste Vh = Volume of the hole (self explanatory) Vl = Volume of the lead (again, self explanatory) Fh = Through hole fill percentage (This depends on your own needs, ie:IPC class I,II,II) Sp = Paste shrink factor (depends on your paste, I use 51%) I have used this formula and have achieved great success reflowing through hole parts. I have overprinted the pads out of necessity to get the desired volume of paste, up to a .22" aperture, and the paste reflowed into the barrel, creating good top and bottom side fillets. The amount of overprint is dictated by the paste volume formula, and also by the PCB layout of nearby SMT components, the pitch of the device,vias, or other keep out areas. I created a spreadsheet that helps me design the apertures based on the above formula, and I can email this to you if you are interested. IPC-7525 contains some very useful guidelines for "Intrusive Reflow". Their formula is more detailed, but may be overkill. I hope this is of some help. Good luck! Howard Watson Manufacturing Engineer AMETEK/Dixson "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> 03/26/02 01:14 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Edward S. Wheeler" To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: [TN] Double Sided Reflow Flux and surface tension Hello Tech-Net users! I am new to the group here, and would like your assistance on a couple of matters concerning a double sided reflow process we are undertaking. We are new to this process, so we would appreciate any expertise on the matter. We are using an OA type solder paste, and like to wash our boards within 2 hours, 4 being the maximum in house limit. To perform our double sided reflow process in mass production, we may want to run all day on one side and do the other side the next. My question is... does any of the residual flux material aid the second reflow process, or can we wash it off before the second reflow and get as good of results? I am concerned that the solder joint may have an outer layer of oxidation or graininess due to the lack of flux once it reflows again. Is there any flux left over that is active, or is it simply the remainder of the carrier? What luck are people having with BGAs populated on the bottom side? Is there more of a concern with warp on the second pass? Is there a rule of thumb for the pad surface area / part weight ratio to maintain enough surface tension to correctly hold the part? Does anybody use adhesives to stake heavy parts on the first pass? Does anybody have a solid rule of thumb for pin-in-paste apertures? On our first try we used an 8 mil step up and had the aperture the same size as outer edge of the PTH. Would an oversize print work better? Thanks in advance for any help. Ed --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --=_alternative 005E44D587256B89_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Ed,</font> <br> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I can't answer your questions regarding the OA flux and BGA's, but I can help with your other questions:</font> <br> <br><font size=2 face="Courier New"><i>"Is there a rule of thumb for the pad surface area / part weight ratio to<br> maintain enough surface tension to correctly hold the part?"</i> Yes, as stated in previous TechNet threads on the subject, the "rule of thumb" formula is the weight of the component in grams / Total pad mating area in square inches. The resulting value in grams per sq. in. must be less than 30.<br> <br> <i>"Does anybody use adhesives to stake heavy parts on the first pass?" </i>No I don't, but it shouldn't cause you any worries<i>.</i> There are issues with thermal balance and back to back components that you will need to investigate to obtain the proper reflow.<br> <br> <i>"Does anybody have a solid rule of thumb for pin-in-paste apertures? On our<br> first try we used an 8 mil step up and had the aperture the same size as<br> outer edge of the PTH. Would an oversize print work better?" </i>The key is to get a sufficient amount of solder fill in the hole and to provide for good fillets. A simple formula to use for paste required is: V<sub>p</sub> = [V<sub>h </sub>- V<sub>l</sub>]x F<sub>h</sub> x S<sub>p</sub> ,where:</font> <br><font size=2 face="Courier New">V<sub>p</sub> = The "target" volume of paste</font> <br><font size=2 face="Courier New">V<sub>h</sub> = Volume of the hole (self explanatory)</font> <br><font size=2 face="Courier New">V<sub>l</sub> = Volume of the lead (again, self explanatory)</font> <br><font size=2 face="Courier New">F<sub>h</sub> = Through hole fill percentage (This depends on your own needs, ie:IPC class I,II,II)</font> <br><font size=2 face="Courier New">S<sub>p</sub> = Paste shrink factor (depends on your paste, I use 51%)</font> <br><font size=2 face="Courier New">I have used this formula and have achieved great success reflowing through hole parts. I have overprinted the pads out of necessity to get the desired volume of paste, up to a .22" aperture, and the paste reflowed into the barrel, creating good top and bottom side fillets. The amount of overprint is dictated by the paste volume formula, and also by the PCB layout of nearby SMT components, the pitch of the device,vias, or other keep out areas. I created a spreadsheet that helps me design the apertures based on the above formula, and I can email this to you if you are interested. IPC-7525 contains some very useful guidelines for "Intrusive Reflow". Their formula is more detailed, but may be overkill. I hope this is of some help. Good luck!</font> <br> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Howard Watson<br> Manufacturing Engineer<br> AMETEK/Dixson</font> <br> <br> <br> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td> <td><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>"Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]></b></font> <br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></font> <p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">03/26/02 01:14 PM</font> <br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Edward S. Wheeler"</font> <br> <td><font size=1 face="Arial"> </font> <br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> To: [log in to unmask]</font> <br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> cc: </font> <br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> Subject: [TN] Double Sided Reflow Flux and surface tension</font></table> <br> <br> <br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Hello Tech-Net users! I am new to the group here, and would like your<br> assistance on a couple of matters concerning a double sided reflow process<br> we are undertaking. We are new to this process, so we would appreciate any<br> expertise on the matter.<br> <br> We are using an OA type solder paste, and like to wash our boards within 2<br> hours, 4 being the maximum in house limit. To perform our double sided<br> reflow process in mass production, we may want to run all day on one side<br> and do the other side the next. My question is... does any of the residual<br> flux material aid the second reflow process, or can we wash it off before<br> the second reflow and get as good of results? I am concerned that the<br> solder joint may have an outer layer of oxidation or graininess due to the<br> lack of flux once it reflows again. Is there any flux left over that is<br> active, or is it simply the remainder of the carrier?<br> <br> What luck are people having with BGAs populated on the bottom side? Is<br> there more of a concern with warp on the second pass?<br> <br> Is there a rule of thumb for the pad surface area / part weight ratio to<br> maintain enough surface tension to correctly hold the part?<br> <br> Does anybody use adhesives to stake heavy parts on the first pass?<br> <br> Does anybody have a solid rule of thumb for pin-in-paste apertures? On our<br> first try we used an 8 mil step up and had the aperture the same size as<br> outer edge of the PTH. Would an oversize print work better?<br> <br> Thanks in advance for any help.<br> <br> Ed<br> <br> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<br> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in<br> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet<br> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL<br> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest<br> Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives<br> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional<br> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315<br> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> </font> <br> <br> --=_alternative 005E44D587256B89_=-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:23:16 -0500 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Gary Bremer <[log in to unmask]> Subject: New Laminate Material Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Gentelmen, Does anyone have information on carbon-core Printed Wiring Boards? Who makes this material and how easy is it to work with? Gary Bremer Manufacturing Engineer --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:41:29 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, bbarr <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: bbarr <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Double Sided Reflow Flux and surface tension X-To: Howard Watson <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C1D58C.B766F440" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C1D58C.B766F440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A question regarding the "total pad mating area" in the formula below. Does one take into consideration only the area where the bottom of the lead contacts the pad, or the entire pad area? And, is the contact area of the bottom of the lead and the contact area of the top of the pad in contact with the lead added together to get the total contact area for that lead? Hope this question makes sense! Bob -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Howard Watson Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 12:12 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Double Sided Reflow Flux and surface tension Ed, I can't answer your questions regarding the OA flux and BGA's, but I can help with your other questions: "Is there a rule of thumb for the pad surface area / part weight ratio to maintain enough surface tension to correctly hold the part?" Yes, as stated in previous TechNet threads on the subject, the "rule of thumb" formula is the weight of the component in grams / Total pad mating area in square inches. The resulting value in grams per sq. in. must be less than 30. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C1D58C.B766F440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4913.1100" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D370093417-27032002>A = question regarding=20 the "total pad mating area" in the formula below. Does one take into=20 consideration only the area where the bottom of the lead contacts = the pad,=20 or the entire pad area? And, is the contact area of the bottom of = the lead=20 and the contact area of the top of the pad in contact with the lead = added=20 together to get the total contact area for that lead? Hope this question = makes=20 sense!</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <P><FONT size=3D2>Bob<BR></FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px = solid"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20 [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Howard = Watson<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20 Wednesday, March 27, 2002 12:12 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20 [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Double Sided Reflow Flux = and=20 surface tension<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20 size=3D2>Ed,</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>I can't = answer your=20 questions regarding the OA flux and BGA's, but I can help with your = other=20 questions:</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><I>"Is = there a rule=20 of thumb for the pad surface area / part weight ratio to<BR>maintain = enough=20 surface tension to correctly hold the part?"</I> Yes, as stated = in=20 previous TechNet threads on the subject, the "rule of thumb" formula = is the=20 weight of the component in grams / Total pad mating area in square = inches.=20 The resulting value in grams per sq. in. must be less than=20 30.<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C1D58C.B766F440-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:48:36 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: ICT X-To: "McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thank you all for your assistance. Barry. -----Original Message----- From: McMullen, Kerry [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 6:48 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] ICT Hi Barry, If your board is highly populated, and test point space is at a premium, you can go do to a .035 square pad on .070 centers. But you need a very good fixture house. Good luck, Kerry -----Original Message----- From: DUTTON Phil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 7:33 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] ICT Hello Barry, IPC-2221 3.5 has some good info on testing and In Circuit Testing design requirements. Can be quite involved, and the circuit design needs to consider the test requirements as well. Test probe lands are typically 0.040" and pitched at 0.100" centres for bed-of-nails type test fixtures. Different types/sizes of probe pins are available. Good idea to talk to the people who will be testing your boards very early. Phil Dutton C.I.D. Senior CAD Technician IPC Certified Interconnect Designer -----Original Message----- From: Barry Gallegos [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, 27 March 2002 09:03 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] ICT G'day Was asked if I could come up with some information on ICT. Where can I find if any on standards that govern ICT "if any" or how to's on fixturing etc. Barry. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:26:05 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder mask tape dots MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ioan, That would be a solution, but that requires my assemblers to wait for it = to cure. If time wasn't an issue that would be fine as we have that in = stock. As a fallback I may use some of the Kapton wave solder masking = tape we have in house. The only problem is this will cover too much = space, or my assemblers will spend way to much time trying to make the = tape fit. Thanks for the thought. Phil -----Original Message----- From: Tempea, Ioan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:55 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] solder mask tape dots What about peelable solder mask Phil? Regards, Ioan > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Nutting [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 10:12 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] solder mask tape dots > > Here is another question for all you gurus. > > We have a hand build, through hole circuit board that has 8 locations = that > must be free of solder for the next level of assembly. So far I can = only > find solder mask tape dots at Contact East. Are there any other = suppliers > out there? Our terminal measures 0.28 inch diameter, so a 0.3" pad = might > be just the thing. > > Thanks in advance, > > Phil > > = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV = 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & = Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or = 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - > ------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases = > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 = ext.5315 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:29:16 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder mask tape dots X-To: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Phil, Check this site for solder plugs and other types of boots and maskant products: http://www.kinnarney.com/ I've used these folks for a long time and have had great success. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Phil Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]] We have a hand build, through hole circuit board that has 8 locations that must be free of solder for the next level of assembly. So far I can only find solder mask tape dots at Contact East. Are there any other suppliers out there? Our terminal measures 0.28 inch diameter, so a 0.3" pad might be just the thing. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:12:34 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Double Sided Reflow Flux and surface tension X-To: bbarr <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0050_01C1D5A1.D27DDF40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C1D5A1.D27DDF40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The formula is conservative and assumes the lead is completely on the land. Surface tension on the wetted sides and heel of leaded devices add to the forces to that in cases where the leads occupy about 85% of the land pattern it is okay to use the land pattern in the formula. If the land patterns are unusually large you might have trouble. Then, use the surface area of the component lead. For, BGAs use the land pattern. -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of bbarr Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 12:41 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Double Sided Reflow Flux and surface tension A question regarding the "total pad mating area" in the formula below. Does one take into consideration only the area where the bottom of the lead contacts the pad, or the entire pad area? And, is the contact area of the bottom of the lead and the contact area of the top of the pad in contact with the lead added together to get the total contact area for that lead? Hope this question makes sense! Bob -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Howard Watson Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 12:12 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Double Sided Reflow Flux and surface tension Ed, I can't answer your questions regarding the OA flux and BGA's, but I can help with your other questions: "Is there a rule of thumb for the pad surface area / part weight ratio to maintain enough surface tension to correctly hold the part?" Yes, as stated in previous TechNet threads on the subject, the "rule of thumb" formula is the weight of the component in grams / Total pad mating area in square inches. The resulting value in grams per sq. in. must be less than 30. ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C1D5A1.D27DDF40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D258080520-27032002>The=20 formula is conservative and assumes the lead is completely on the land. = Surface=20 tension on the wetted sides and heel of leaded devices add to the forces = to that=20 in cases where the leads occupy about 85% of the land pattern it is okay = to use=20 the land pattern in the formula. If the land patterns are unusually = large=20 you might have trouble. Then, use the surface area of the component = lead. For, =20 BGAs use the land pattern. </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20 [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of</B> bbarr<BR><B>Sent:</B> = Wednesday,=20 March 27, 2002 12:41 PM<BR><B>To:</B> = [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:=20 [TN] Double Sided Reflow Flux and surface tension<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D370093417-27032002>A = question=20 regarding the "total pad mating area" in the formula below. Does one = take into=20 consideration only the area where the bottom of the lead contacts = the=20 pad, or the entire pad area? And, is the contact area of the bottom of = the lead and the contact area of the top of the pad in contact = with the=20 lead added together to get the total contact area for that lead? Hope = this=20 question makes sense!</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <P><FONT size=3D2>Bob<BR></FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20 [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Howard = Watson<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20 Wednesday, March 27, 2002 12:12 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20 [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Double Sided Reflow Flux = and=20 surface tension<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20 size=3D2>Ed,</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>I can't = answer your=20 questions regarding the OA flux and BGA's, but I can help with your = other=20 questions:</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><I>"Is = there a=20 rule of thumb for the pad surface area / part weight ratio = to<BR>maintain=20 enough surface tension to correctly hold the part?"</I> Yes, = as stated=20 in previous TechNet threads on the subject, the "rule of thumb" = formula is=20 the weight of the component in grams / Total pad mating area in = square=20 inches. The resulting value in grams per sq. in. must be less = than=20 30.<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C1D5A1.D27DDF40-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:05:42 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Thorup, John" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Thorup, John" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder mask tape dots X-To: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain We use the "solder wave disks" from Shercon. Basically it's a roll of dots of high temp masking tape. Among others there are .250 and .375 dia. They work well for us and don't leave any goop. We buy them thru Com-Kyl. > -----Original Message----- > From: Sauer, Steven T. [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 10:29 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] solder mask tape dots > > Phil, > Check this site for solder plugs and other types of boots and maskant > products: http://www.kinnarney.com/ > I've used these folks for a long time and have had great success. > > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > > We have a hand build, through hole circuit board that has 8 locations that > must be free of solder for the next level of assembly. So far I can only > find solder mask tape dots at Contact East. Are there any other suppliers > out there? Our terminal measures 0.28 inch diameter, so a 0.3" pad might > be > just the thing. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:40:21 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: solder mask tape dots X-To: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Phil, One more solution - UV curable spotmask, made by several of the peelable and/or water-soluble spot mask suppliers. Available at Contact East and other distributors. Al Kreplick Sr. Mfg. Eng. Teradyne, Inc. 500 Riverpark Drive North Reading, MA 01864 978-370-1726 (Embedded image moved TechNet <[log in to unmask]> to file: 03/27/2002 01:26 PM pic31591.pcx) Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: Re: [TN] solder mask tape dots Ioan, That would be a solution, but that requires my assemblers to wait for it to cure. If time wasn't an issue that would be fine as we have that in stock. As a fallback I may use some of the Kapton wave solder masking tape we have in house. The only problem is this will cover too much space, or my assemblers will spend way to much time trying to make the tape fit. Thanks for the thought. Phil -----Original Message----- From: Tempea, Ioan [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:55 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] solder mask tape dots What about peelable solder mask Phil? Regards, Ioan > -----Original Message----- > From: Phil Nutting [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 10:12 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] solder mask tape dots > > Here is another question for all you gurus. > > We have a hand build, through hole circuit board that has 8 locations that > must be free of solder for the next level of assembly. So far I can only > find solder mask tape dots at Contact East. Are there any other suppliers > out there? Our terminal measures 0.28 inch diameter, so a 0.3" pad might > be just the thing. > > Thanks in advance, > > Phil > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:40:54 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Dave Hillman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Conformal Coating BGA's X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Peter! You have me confused (which is a normal state for me if I don't have a Coke in my hand). Collins has been using BGAs in avionics use environments, not underfilled, with acrylic conformal coating very successfully for a couple of years. What was the reason/rationale for using BGAs with underfill? Was is an issue with solder joint thermal cycle fatigue for a given use environment? Corrosion? Customer requirements? Residual flux issues? Sheer terror of the unknown? Dave Hillman Rockwell Collins [log in to unmask] [log in to unmask]@ipc.org> on 03/26/2002 07:48:52 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to [log in to unmask] Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's Hi, Bruce, We apply Humiseal acrylic coating to boards that fit your description and application precisely, except that we do underfill the BGA's with a reworkable epoxy, applied after assembly. The only exception was for the case of two boards destined for temperature cycling measurement, for which we couldn't get a supply of underfill material at the time. We substituted thinned Humiseal as the boards would not be flying, as we were concerned about entrapped air and also no suuport for the BGA joints. Humiseal is not a proper substitute for the specialised proper epoxy, but was sufficient for our particular purpose. The main issue as I see it would be moisture and other contaminants in the entrapped air, but I have no first hand data to help you decide if that causes problems or not. Good luck Peter "Misner, Bruce" To: [log in to unmask] <Bruce_Misner cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST @ATK.COM> Aero/ST Group) Sent by: Subject: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's TechNet <[log in to unmask] ORG> 03/20/02 03:48 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Misner, Bruce" My question of the day: Is anyone conformal coating (not parylene) plastic BGA's on FR-4 in Hi-Rel applications (aircraft; -20 to +71C ambient operating temperature requirement) without benefit of an underfil? If yes, has entrapped air been a major issue? Anyone care to comment on this approach? Regards, Bruce Misner --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you.] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:37:53 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: solder mask tape dots MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_90.23777ee9.29d3b1d1_boundary" --part1_90.23777ee9.29d3b1d1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Phil! Here's another suggestion to add to the answers you've received, reusable tapered plugs. Check out: http://www.echosupply.com/catalog_pdf/echo6.pdf -Steve Gregory- > Here is another question for all you gurus. > > We have a hand build, through hole circuit board that has 8 locations that > must be free of solder for the next level of assembly. So far I can only > find solder mask tape dots at Contact East. Are there any other suppliers > out there? Our terminal measures 0.28 inch diameter, so a 0.3" pad might > be just the thing. > > Thanks in advance, > > Phil > --part1_90.23777ee9.29d3b1d1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Phil!<BR> <BR> Here's another suggestion to add to the answers you've received, reusable tapered plugs. Check out:<BR> <BR> http://www.echosupply.com/catalog_pdf/echo6.pdf<BR> <BR> -Steve Gregory-<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Here is another question for all you gurus.<BR> <BR> We have a hand build, through hole circuit board that has 8 locations that must be free of solder for the next level of assembly. So far I can only find solder mask tape dots at Contact East. Are there any other suppliers out there? Our terminal measures 0.28 inch diameter, so a 0.3" pad might be just the thing.<BR> <BR> Thanks in advance,<BR> <BR> Phil<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_90.23777ee9.29d3b1d1_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:54:25 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: solder mask tape dots MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Humiseal makes tape dots that are designed for coating masking, but I have used them at wave in the past. You might try to get a sample from them to test. Jon Moore --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:35:00 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]> Subject: IPC News Release--IPC AND ITS MEMBERS CLAIM VICTORY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_B9E42A2A.9FFE9FBF" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_B9E42A2A.9FFE9FBF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Contact Information: Joe Dudeck, IPC Communications Manager 847-790-5371 For Immediate Release IPC AND ITS MEMBERS CLAIM VICTORY NORTHBROOK, Ill., March 15, 2002--IPC-Association Connecting Electronics = Industries=AE has announced a victory in its efforts to pass a realistic = depreciation bill for the electronics assembly and printed circuit board = industries. The U.S. Congress and the Bush Administration recently reached an = agreement to pass an economic stimulus package that includes a significant = accelerated depreciation provision for the electronic interconnection = industry and other U.S. manufacturers. This realistic depreciation issue = has been a cornerstone of IPC's Government Relations policy for more than = seven years. The bipartisan effort received support from nearly every = congressman and senator IPC contacted to support the bill. "This is a great victory for IPC, its Board and its dedicated members," = said IPC President Denny McGuirk. "I congratulate and thank all those = individuals, especially those that serve on our Government Relations = committee, who have given their time and energy to attend past Capitol = Hill Day events, write letters and host plant tours on this very important = issue." The "Job Creation and Worker Assistance Act of 2002," which was signed = into law by President Bush on March 9, contains a 30 percent accelerated = depreciation benefit over the next three years that will spur investment = in state-of-the-art manufacturing equipment and assist in the recovery of = the PCB and EMS industry. The applicable time period for equipment = covered under the new law is property that was acquired after September = 10, 2001, and before September 11, 2004. "The passing of this bill is timely for our industry and our national = economy," added McGuirk. "With IPC Printed Circuits Expo=AE 2002 just = around the corner, the 30 percent accelerated depreciation benefit will = likely impact many attendees' purchasing decisions in a positive way." For more information, contact John Kania, IPC's director of Government = Relations, at [log in to unmask] or 202-962-0460. About IPC IPC is a U.S.-based trade association dedicated to the competitive = excellence and financial success of its more than 2,600 member companies = which represent all facets of the electronic interconnection industry, = including design, printed wiring board manufacturing and electronics = assembly. As a member-driven organization and leading source for industry = standards, training, market research and public policy advocacy, IPC = supports programs to meet the needs of a $44 billion U.S. industry = employing more than 400,000 people. //30// NR02056AccDepSupport --=_B9E42A2A.9FFE9FBF Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Description: HTML <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"= > <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: = 2px"><FONT=20 face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> <DIV><STRONG>Contact Information:</STRONG><BR>Joe Dudeck, IPC Communication= s=20 Manager<BR>847-790-5371</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D4><STRONG>For Immediate Release</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT size=3D5><STRONG><U>IPC AND ITS MEMBERS CLAIM=20 VICTORY</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>NORTHBROOK, Ill., March 15, 2002</STRONG>--IPC-Association=20 Connecting Electronics Industries=AE has announced a victory in its = efforts to=20 pass a realistic depreciation bill for the electronics assembly and = printed=20 circuit board industries.</DIV> <DIV><BR>The U.S. Congress and the Bush Administration recently reached = an=20 agreement to pass an economic stimulus package that includes a significant= =20 accelerated depreciation provision for the electronic interconnection = industry=20 and other U.S. manufacturers. This realistic depreciation issue has = been a=20 cornerstone of IPC's Government Relations policy for more than seven=20 years. The bipartisan effort received support from nearly every=20 congressman and senator IPC contacted to support the bill.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"This is a great victory for IPC, its Board and its dedicated = members,"=20 said IPC President Denny McGuirk. "I congratulate and thank all = those=20 individuals, especially those that serve on our Government Relations = committee,=20 who have given their time and energy to attend past Capitol Hill Day = events,=20 write letters and host plant tours on this very important issue."</DIV> <DIV><BR>The "Job Creation and Worker Assistance Act of 2002," which was = signed=20 into law by President Bush on March 9, contains a 30 percent accelerated=20= depreciation benefit over the next three years that will spur investment = in=20 state-of-the-art manufacturing equipment and assist in the recovery of the = PCB=20 and EMS industry. The applicable time period for equipment covered = under=20 the new law is property that was acquired after September 10, 2001, and = before=20 September 11, 2004.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"The passing of this bill is timely for our industry and our = national=20 economy," added McGuirk. "With IPC Printed Circuits Expo=AE 2002 = just around=20 the corner, the 30 percent accelerated depreciation benefit will likely = impact=20 many attendees' purchasing decisions in a positive way."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For more information, contact John Kania, IPC's director of Government= =20 Relations, at <A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> or=20 202-962-0460.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>About IPC</U></STRONG><BR>IPC is a U.S.-based trade = association=20 dedicated to the competitive excellence and financial success of its more = than=20 2,600 member companies which represent all facets of the electronic=20 interconnection industry, including design, printed wiring=20 board manufacturing and electronics assembly. As a member-driven= =20 organization and leading source for industry standards, training, = market=20 research and public policy advocacy, IPC supports programs to meet the = needs of=20 a $44 billion U.S. industry employing more than 400,000 people.<BR></DIV> <DIV align=3Dcenter>//30//</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D1>NR02056AccDepSupport</FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML> --=_B9E42A2A.9FFE9FBF-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:57:10 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: IPC News Release--IPC AND ITS MEMBERS CLAIM VICTORY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_96.2406ad14.29d3e086_boundary" --part1_96.2406ad14.29d3e086_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All I can say is; OUTSTANDING!! Although I must admit, I've not been involve= d=20 intimately with this issue, just been watching from a far. I've got a question though, I looked at the bill from links that I searched=20 about the bill, and it seems to me, that any money that you spend that is=20 considered a capital cost (for example, $49,000 for a circuitcam software=20 suite for our pick-n-place stuff) can be rolled into this tax break...am I=20 correct in my assumption? I'm pretty sure our bean counters aren't aware about this news, but we have=20 spent some money on stuff that we capitalized recently...since 9/11. Also, one last question, there isn't any differentiation if the money was=20 spent on new equipment, or used, is there? PLEASE, PLEASE ya'll, don't think that this stuff is what I worry about, I=20 just thought I could pass on some good information to our financial staff=20 that they may not be aware of...I'm not a "Bean Counter"...hehehe. -Steve Gregory- > Contact Information: > Joe Dudeck, IPC Communications Manager > 847-790-5371 > =20 > For Immediate Release > =20 > IPC AND ITS MEMBERS CLAIM VICTORY > =20 > NORTHBROOK, Ill., March 15, 2002--IPC-Association Connecting Electronics=20 > Industries=AE has announced a victory in its efforts to pass a realistic=20 > depreciation bill for the electronics assembly and printed circuit board=20 > industries. >=20 > The U.S. Congress and the Bush Administration recently reached an agreemen= t=20 > to pass an economic stimulus package that includes a significant=20 > accelerated depreciation provision for the electronic interconnection=20 > industry and other U.S. manufacturers. This realistic depreciation issue=20 > has been a cornerstone of IPC's Government Relations policy for more than=20 > seven years. The bipartisan effort received support from nearly every=20 > congressman and senator IPC contacted to support the bill. > =20 > "This is a great victory for IPC, its Board and its dedicated members,"=20 > said IPC President Denny McGuirk. "I congratulate and thank all those=20 > individuals, especially those that serve on our Government Relations=20 > committee, who have given their time and energy to attend past Capitol Hil= l=20 > Day events, write letters and host plant tours on this very important=20 > issue." >=20 > The "Job Creation and Worker Assistance Act of 2002," which was signed int= o=20 > law by President Bush on March 9, contains a 30 percent accelerated=20 > depreciation benefit over the next three years that will spur investment i= n=20 > state-of-the-art manufacturing equipment and assist in the recovery of the= =20 > PCB and EMS industry. The applicable time period for equipment covered=20 > under the new law is property that was acquired after September 10, 2001,=20 > and before September 11, 2004. > =20 > "The passing of this bill is timely for our industry and our national=20 > economy," added McGuirk. "With IPC Printed Circuits Expo=AE 2002 just aro= und=20 > the corner, the 30 percent accelerated depreciation benefit will likely=20 > impact many attendees' purchasing decisions in a positive way." > =20 > For more information, contact John Kania, IPC's director of Government=20 > Relations, at <A HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> or 202-= 962-0460. > =20 > About IPC > IPC is a U.S.-based trade association dedicated to the competitive=20 > excellence and financial success of its more than 2,600 member companies=20 > which represent all facets of the electronic interconnection industry,=20 > including design, printed wiring board manufacturing and electronics=20 > assembly. As a member-driven organization and leading source for industry= =20 > standards, training, market research and public policy advocacy, IPC=20 > supports programs to meet the needs of a $44 billion U.S. industry=20 > employing more than 400,000 people. >=20 > //30// > =20 > NR02056AccDepSupport >=20 --part1_96.2406ad14.29d3e086_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE= =3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">All I can say is; OUTSTANDING!! Although I must admit,= I've not been involved intimately with this issue, just been watching from=20= a far.<BR> <BR> I've got a question though, I looked at the bill from links that I searched=20= about the bill, and it seems to me, that any money that you spend that is co= nsidered a capital cost (for example, $49,000 for a circuitcam software suit= e for our pick-n-place stuff) can be rolled into this tax break...am I corre= ct in my assumption?<BR> <BR> I'm pretty sure our bean counters aren't aware about this news, but we have=20= spent some money on stuff that we capitalized recently...since 9/11.<BR> <BR> Also, one last question, there isn't any differentiation if the money was sp= ent on new equipment, or used, is there?<BR> <BR> PLEASE, PLEASE ya'll, don't think that this stuff is what I worry about, I j= ust thought I could pass on some good information to our financial staff tha= t they may not be aware of...I'm not a "Bean Counter"...hehehe.<BR> <BR> -Steve Gregory-<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3= FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCIT= E style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0= px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><B>Contact Information:</B><BR> Joe Dudeck, IPC Communications Manager<BR> 847-790-5371<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D4= FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"><B>For Immediate Relea= se</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE= =3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"></B><BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D5= FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"><B><U>IPC AND ITS MEMB= ERS CLAIM VICTORY</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20= #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"></B><= /U><BR> <BR> <B>NORTHBROOK, Ill., March 15, 2002</B>--IPC-Association Connecting Electron= ics Industries=AE has announced a victory in its efforts to pass a realistic= depreciation bill for the electronics assembly and printed circuit board in= dustries.<BR> <BR> The U.S. Congress and the Bush Administration recently reached an agreement=20= to pass an economic stimulus package that includes a significant accelerated= depreciation provision for the electronic interconnection industry and othe= r U.S. manufacturers. This realistic depreciation issue has been a cor= nerstone of IPC's Government Relations policy for more than seven years.&nbs= p; The bipartisan effort received support from nearly every congressman and=20= senator IPC contacted to support the bill.<BR> <BR> "This is a great victory for IPC, its Board and its dedicated members," said= IPC President Denny McGuirk. "I congratulate and thank all those indi= viduals, especially those that serve on our Government Relations committee,=20= who have given their time and energy to attend past Capitol Hill Day events,= write letters and host plant tours on this very important issue."<BR> <BR> The "Job Creation and Worker Assistance Act of 2002," which was signed into=20= law by President Bush on March 9, contains a 30 percent accelerated deprecia= tion benefit over the next three years that will spur investment in state-of= -the-art manufacturing equipment and assist in the recovery of the PCB and E= MS industry. The applicable time period for equipment covered under th= e new law is property that was acquired after September 10, 2001, and before= September 11, 2004.<BR> <BR> "The passing of this bill is timely for our industry and our national econom= y," added McGuirk. "With IPC Printed Circuits Expo=AE 2002 just around= the corner, the 30 percent accelerated depreciation benefit will likely imp= act many attendees' purchasing decisions in a positive way."<BR> <BR> For more information, contact John Kania, IPC's director of Government Relat= ions, at <A HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> or 202-962-046= 0.<BR> <BR> <B><U>About IPC</B></U><BR> IPC is a U.S.-based trade association dedicated to the competitive excellenc= e and financial success of its more than 2,600 member companies which repres= ent all facets of the electronic interconnection industry, including design,= printed wiring board manufacturing and electronics assembly. As a mem= ber-driven organization and leading source for industry standards, training,= market research and public policy advocacy, IPC supports programs to meet t= he needs of a $44 billion U.S. industry employing more than 400,000 people.<= BR> <BR> //30//<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D1= FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0">NR02056AccDepSupport</= FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 F= AMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Times New Roman" LANG=3D"0"><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2= FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_96.2406ad14.29d3e086_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:29:20 +0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, kevinyeah <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: kevinyeah <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Blistering in PCBs X-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" 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[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:06:59 +0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, fullname <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: fullname <[log in to unmask]> Organization: DSO National Laboratories Subject: MIL-C-28809 Replacement/supersede MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Understand that MIL-C-28809 has been cancelled. However, there are two tables indicates in this mil-spec on the max. number allowed permitted for plated-thorugh hole repair and circuit repair. Can someone point to me where else can I find similar tables for repair under IPC standards? Thank you very much in advance - Wee Mei. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:33:29 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Double Sided Reflow Flux and surface tension MIME-Version: 1.0 (Generated by NET-TEL Mailguard SMTP version 4.0.0.22) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Edward, An answer to your question about using adhesives: yes, when there are = heavy components going through "inverted reflow" we apply a few gluedots = to the corners of these parts. We use the same Hereaus glue that we use = for wave soldering of smd's, it is applied after soldering and cleaning of = the first side.=20 Instead of using an additional curing step we let the adhesive harden in = the preheat-zones of the reflow oven, so that it is cured before the = solder melts. It works, but I still see it as a makeshift for badly designed boards, and = it should not be standard practice. Daan Terstegge SMT Centre Thales Communications Unclassified mail Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net >>> "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> 03/26 9:14 pm >>> Hello Tech-Net users! I am new to the group here, and would like your assistance on a couple of matters concerning a double sided reflow process we are undertaking. We are new to this process, so we would appreciate any expertise on the matter. We are using an OA type solder paste, and like to wash our boards within 2 hours, 4 being the maximum in house limit. To perform our double sided reflow process in mass production, we may want to run all day on one side and do the other side the next. My question is... does any of the residual flux material aid the second reflow process, or can we wash it off before the second reflow and get as good of results? I am concerned that the solder joint may have an outer layer of oxidation or graininess due to the lack of flux once it reflows again. Is there any flux left over that is active, or is it simply the remainder of the carrier? What luck are people having with BGAs populated on the bottom side? Is there more of a concern with warp on the second pass? Is there a rule of thumb for the pad surface area / part weight ratio to maintain enough surface tension to correctly hold the part? Does anybody use adhesives to stake heavy parts on the first pass? Does anybody have a solid rule of thumb for pin-in-paste apertures? On our first try we used an 8 mil step up and had the aperture the same size as outer edge of the PTH. Would an oversize print work better? Thanks in advance for any help. Ed ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to Listserv@ip= c.org: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > = E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 = ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 06:05:33 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Blistering in PCBs X-To: [log in to unmask] I completely agree with the following: IHRlbXBvcmFyaWx5IGhhbHQgZGVsaXZlcnkgb2YgVGVjaG5ldCBzZW5kIGUtbWFpbCB0byBMaXN0 c2VydkBpcGMub3JnOiBTRVQgVGVjaG5ldCBOT01BSUwNCj5UbyByZWNlaXZlIE9ORSBtYWlsaW5n IHBlciBkYXkgb2YgYWxsIHRoZSBwb3N0czogc2VuZCBlLW1haWwgdG8gTGlzdHNlcnZAaXBjLm9y ZzogU0VUIFRlY2huZXQgRGlnZXN0DQo+U2VhcmNo However, Vinit sent me some really ugly photos showing the condition. Out of respect for his privacy and sorrow, I won't even attempt posting them unless he wishes. Never seen anything so ugly. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:47:20 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: MIL-C-28809 Replacement/supersede X-To: fullname <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Wee Mei, To my knowledge, the information that you are looking for does not exist in a replacement military specification nor other industry association documents. On one hand, the information contained in MIL-C-28809 was considered requirements for "standard" repair/modification. Repair and modifications that did not fall within these requirements, "non-standard", were turned over to a Material Review Board (MRB) and dependent on contractual requirements may have included customer review and approval/disapproval. With today's technology and the ever changing end use environments, "standard" repairs should be reviewed by a MRB for issues related to quality, performance, reliability and maintainability of the deliverable product. The guidance information contained in MIL-C-28809 can be used to develop criteria for use by a MRB or better yet, used to develop an in-house procedure for standard repairs that defines specifics for your products. IPC-7721 (supercedes IPC-R-700) is widely accepted and used for repair and modification of electronic assemblies, but it does not contain "maximum allowable" criteria. Steve Sauer -----Original Message----- From: fullname [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Understand that MIL-C-28809 has been cancelled. However, there are two tables indicates in this mil-spec on the max. number allowed permitted for plated-thorugh hole repair and circuit repair. Can someone point to me where else can I find similar tables for repair under IPC standards? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:44:36 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: MSD tracking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi Technos, for me it's payback time. We always ask our customers to supply the Moisture Sensitive Devices in controlled conditions, you know, sealed bags, desiccant, humidity indicators. In turn, they started asking us how do we control the MSDs on the floor. Right now, we do tracking sheets, a system very close to the one the Moonman presents in his procedure. I badly need your input on the following: - what is the trend in the industry, more companies using the manual system, like we do, with tracking sheets, or more companies using high-tech systems like Cogiscan? - does anybody use the MRP system to log tracking data? Thanks, Ioan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:50:14 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: IPC News Release--IPC AND ITS MEMBERS CLAIM VICTORY Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_4F12DDA7.E786EB29" This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_4F12DDA7.E786EB29 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I agree with Steve I have already forwarded it to the bean counters. = Which now I can look into another experiment I have always wanted to = watch, How fast can a bean counter move when saving is at stake.....HEHEHEH= EHEHE Kathy=20 --=_4F12DDA7.E786EB29 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px"> <DIV>I agree with Steve I have already forwarded it to the bean counters. Which now I can look into another experiment I have always wanted to watch, How fast can a bean counter move when saving is at stake.....HEHEHEHEHEHE</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML> --=_4F12DDA7.E786EB29-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:32:11 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Francois Monette <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Francois Monette <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Double Sided Reflow Flux and surface tension X-cc: [log in to unmask] MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Ed, One very important consideration for double-side reflow that many people overlook is the additional control required for moisture sensitive components. As you are probably aware, most PBGAs are classified as moisture sensitive and as such they have a limited floor life prior to reflow. When you run a double-side reflow process, it is important to understand that the floor life clock is not reset by the first reflow. In other words, the components that are assembled on the first side will continue to absorb moisture after being assembled and before the second reflow. This means that you need some method to keep track of the remaining floor life of components on partially assembled board between the first and second reflow. Ref : J-STD-033, Section 8.4.4. "If more than one reflow pass is used, care must be taken to ensure that no moisture sensitive components, mounted or unmounted, have exceeded their floor life prior to the final pass." Let me know if you need more information on this subject. Francois Monette Cogiscan Inc. Tel : 450-534-2644 Fax : 450-534-0092 E-mail : [log in to unmask] www.cogiscan.com "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> 03/26/02 01:14 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Edward S. Wheeler" To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: [TN] Double Sided Reflow Flux and surface tension Hello Tech-Net users! I am new to the group here, and would like your assistance on a couple of matters concerning a double sided reflow process we are undertaking. We are new to this process, so we would appreciate any expertise on the matter. We are using an OA type solder paste, and like to wash our boards within 2 hours, 4 being the maximum in house limit. To perform our double sided reflow process in mass production, we may want to run all day on one side and do the other side the next. My question is... does any of the residual flux material aid the second reflow process, or can we wash it off before the second reflow and get as good of results? I am concerned that the solder joint may have an outer layer of oxidation or graininess due to the lack of flux once it reflows again. Is there any flux left over that is active, or is it simply the remainder of the carrier? What luck are people having with BGAs populated on the bottom side? Is there more of a concern with warp on the second pass? Is there a rule of thumb for the pad surface area / part weight ratio to maintain enough surface tension to correctly hold the part? Does anybody use adhesives to stake heavy parts on the first pass? Does anybody have a solid rule of thumb for pin-in-paste apertures? On our first try we used an 8 mil step up and had the aperture the same size as outer edge of the PTH. Would an oversize print work better? Thanks in advance for any help. Ed --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:54:37 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: MSD tracking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_4b.1ab75487.29d488ad_boundary" --part1_4b.1ab75487.29d488ad_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ioan - The sad fact of the matter is that most companies do not track MSD at all. The industry is slowly becoming aware of the issue and proper procedures. Soon MSD will have the "stature" of concern in the industry that ESD has. When we do Process Audits, MSD "awareness" and tracking is a key category. Of the companies that do track, the majority seem to be using a traveller system. However, these are prone to "human" error (just as inspection logging in AQl methodology). In my opinion, the Cogiscan system is the way to go. It is relatively new, though, so there are limited installations. But where they have gone in, it makes MSD tracking as "idiot proof" as possible. Bear in mind that MSD tracking becomes even more difficult with double-sided assemblies (if MSDs are on the first side). I am aware of a at least one Cogiscan installation at an automobile electronics manufacturer in which their method of electronic tracking saved the day. In terms of ROI, the Cogiscan system is very economical. I suggest you look into it. My colleagues and I at ITM are advocates of MSD awareness. We are currently looking into whether the IC manufacturers have any idea how many of their components were returned as "bad" when, in fact, they were done in by improper MSD handling. Think dry! Phil Zarrow ITM Consulting Durham, NH USA www.ITM-SMT.com T: (603) 868-1754 F: (603) 868-3623 EM:[log in to unmask] --part1_4b.1ab75487.29d488ad_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Ioan - <BR> The sad fact of the matter is that most companies do not track MSD at all. The industry is slowly becoming aware of the issue and proper procedures. Soon MSD will have the "stature" of concern in the industry that ESD has. <BR> When we do Process Audits, MSD "awareness" and tracking is a key category. Of the companies that do track, the majority seem to be using a traveller system. However, these are prone to "human" error (just as inspection logging in AQl methodology). In my opinion, the Cogiscan system is the way to go. It is relatively new, though, so there are limited installations. But where they have gone in, it makes MSD tracking as "idiot proof" as possible.<BR> Bear in mind that MSD tracking becomes even more difficult with double-sided assemblies (if MSDs are on the first side). I am aware of a at least one Cogiscan installation at an automobile electronics manufacturer in which their method of electronic tracking saved the day. <BR> In terms of ROI, the Cogiscan system is very economical. I suggest you look into it.<BR> My colleagues and I at ITM are advocates of MSD awareness. We are currently looking into whether the IC manufacturers have any idea how many of their components were returned as "bad" when, in fact, they were done in by improper MSD handling.<BR> <BR> Think dry!<BR> <BR> Phil Zarrow<BR> <BR> <B>ITM Consulting <BR> Durham, NH USA<BR> www.ITM-SMT.com<BR> T: (603) 868-1754<BR> F: (603) 868-3623<BR> EM:[log in to unmask]</B></FONT></HTML> --part1_4b.1ab75487.29d488ad_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:29:42 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Heatsink wanted I am currently looking for 2 heatsinks: (1) Approximately 3/4" x 3/4" that is an adhesive tape mount (2) Approximately 1.575" x 1.575" (40mm x 40mm)that is an adhesive mount type with a fan attached Since these are for BGAs, a clip mounting is not acceptable. Does anybody know where I can find these? I am trying to avoid mom & pop type shops. Surely a major manufacturer has to make this and distributors stock it. Can anybody point me in the right direction??? Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:32:12 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Howard Watson <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Howard Watson <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: IPC News Release--IPC AND ITS MEMBERS CLAIM VICTORY X-To: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_mixed 00551DC887256B8A_=" --=_mixed 00551DC887256B8A_= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00551DC887256B8A_=" --=_alternative 00551DC887256B8A_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I also forwarded this to our financial folks, because frankly I don't know what its impact is to my company. I am making a $147k capital purchase now, so what is the bottom line benefit to my company? Any ideas? Howard Watson Manufacturing Engineer AMETEK/Dixson Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> 03/28/02 06:50 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to Kathy Kuhlow To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: Re: [TN] IPC News Release--IPC AND ITS MEMBERS CLAIM VICTORY I agree with Steve I have already forwarded it to the bean counters. Which now I can look into another experiment I have always wanted to watch, How fast can a bean counter move when saving is at stake.....HEHEHEHEHEHE Kathy --=_alternative 00551DC887256B8A_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I also forwarded this to our financial folks, because frankly I don't know what its impact is to my company. I am making a $147k capital purchase now, so what is the bottom line benefit to my company? Any ideas?</font> <br> <br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Howard Watson<br> Manufacturing Engineer<br> AMETEK/Dixson</font> <br> <br> <br> <table width=100%> <tr valign=top> <td> <td><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]></b></font> <br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></font> <p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">03/28/02 06:50 AM</font> <br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to Kathy Kuhlow</font> <br> <td><font size=1 face="Arial"> </font> <br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> To: [log in to unmask]</font> <br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> cc: </font> <br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"> Subject: Re: [TN] IPC News Release--IPC AND ITS MEMBERS CLAIM VICTORY</font></table> <br> <br> <br><font size=2 face="Courier New">I agree with Steve I have already forwarded it to the bean counters. Which now I can look into another experiment I have always wanted to watch, How fast can a bean counter move when saving is at stake.....HEHEHEHEHEHE<br> <br> Kathy <br> </font> <br> <br> --=_alternative 00551DC887256B8A_=-- --=_mixed 00551DC887256B8A_= Content-Type: text/html; name="TEXT.htm" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px"> <DIV>I agree with Steve I have already forwarded it to the bean counters.&n= bsp; Which now I can look into another experiment I have always wanted to watch,= How fast can a bean counter move when saving is at stake.....HEHEHEHEHEHE</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML> --=_mixed 00551DC887256B8A_=-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:59:48 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Adrian Hanks." <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Adrian Hanks." <[log in to unmask]> Subject: BGA Double Drop Hi Technetters, Can anyone help me? We are curently running some BGA'S through reflow, and on inspecting them through our Ersascope BGA inspection system have measured there is a ball drop of around 30% from original ball size. The actual ball formation looks very "border line" as in, has it single or double dropped. Does anyone know the guidlines for such a drop? Is 30% the bottom end tolerance and if so should I be looking at a drop of + 30% to insure a good looking sound joint on the BGA. Many thanks in advance, Adrian Hanks. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:25:03 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: BGA Double Drop X-To: "Adrian Hanks." <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Adrian, I have a few questions, then if they are consistent with what we have seen, we can discuss this further. Is the "drop" from the original size due to the fact the chip is warped and pulled the ball up into a column? Are they located in the corners and edges mostly? Is this a plastic BGA? Are you inspecting for solder paste in the BGA areas? Are you losing solder down your vias by way of a short trace? Ed At 09:59 AM 3/28/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Hi Technetters, > >Can anyone help me? > >We are curently running some BGA'S through reflow, and on inspecting them >through our Ersascope BGA inspection system have measured there is a ball >drop of around 30% from original ball size. The actual ball formation looks >very "border line" as in, has it single or double dropped. Does anyone know >the guidlines for such a drop? Is 30% the bottom end tolerance and if so >should I be looking at a drop of + 30% to insure a good looking sound joint >on the BGA. > >Many thanks in advance, > >Adrian Hanks. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: >SET Technet NOMAIL >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > >E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 >ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:41:42 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: MSD tracking MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thanks Phil, although I don't really agree with dry thinking right now, when Easter has to be celebrated. Ioan > -----Original Message----- > From: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:55 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] MSD tracking > > Ioan - > The sad fact of the matter is that most companies do not track MSD at all. > The industry is slowly becoming aware of the issue and proper procedures. > Soon MSD will have the "stature" of concern in the industry that ESD has. > > When we do Process Audits, MSD "awareness" and tracking is a key category. > Of the companies that do track, the majority seem to be using a traveller > system. However, these are prone to "human" error (just as inspection > logging in AQl methodology). In my opinion, the Cogiscan system is the > way to go. It is relatively new, though, so there are limited > installations. But where they have gone in, it makes MSD tracking as > "idiot proof" as possible. > Bear in mind that MSD tracking becomes even more difficult with > double-sided assemblies (if MSDs are on the first side). I am aware of a > at least one Cogiscan installation at an automobile electronics > manufacturer in which their method of electronic tracking saved the day. > > In terms of ROI, the Cogiscan system is very economical. I suggest you > look into it. > My colleagues and I at ITM are advocates of MSD awareness. We are > currently looking into whether the IC manufacturers have any idea how many > of their components were returned as "bad" when, in fact, they were done > in by improper MSD handling. > > Think dry! > > Phil Zarrow > > ITM Consulting > Durham, NH USA > www.ITM-SMT.com > T: (603) 868-1754 > F: (603) 868-3623 > EM:[log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:42:40 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: BGA Double Drop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_95.19f590d1.29d4a200_boundary" --part1_95.19f590d1.29d4a200_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Adrian! Is this part a Texas Instrument part that has a big metal heat slug in the top? I've seen this happen with that part because of the weight of the heat slug...the balls look kinda "squished" too... -Steve Gregory- > Hi Technetters, > > Can anyone help me? > > We are curently running some BGA'S through reflow, and on inspecting them > through our Ersascope BGA inspection system have measured there is a ball > drop of around 30% from original ball size. The actual ball formation looks > very "border line" as in, has it single or double dropped. Does anyone know > the guidlines for such a drop? Is 30% the bottom end tolerance and if so > should I be looking at a drop of + 30% to insure a good looking sound joint > on the BGA. > > Many thanks in advance, > > Adrian Hanks. > --part1_95.19f590d1.29d4a200_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Adrian! <BR> <BR>Is this part a Texas Instrument part that has a big metal heat slug in the top? I've seen this happen with that part because of the weight of the heat slug...the balls <BR>look kinda "squished" too... <BR> <BR>-Steve Gregory- <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hi Technetters, <BR> <BR>Can anyone help me? <BR> <BR>We are curently running some BGA'S through reflow, and on inspecting them <BR>through our Ersascope BGA inspection system have measured there is a ball <BR>drop of around 30% from original ball size. The actual ball formation looks <BR>very "border line" as in, has it single or double dropped. Does anyone know <BR>the guidlines for such a drop? Is 30% the bottom end tolerance and if so <BR>should I be looking at a drop of + 30% to insure a good looking sound joint <BR>on the BGA. <BR> <BR>Many thanks in advance, <BR> <BR>Adrian Hanks. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR></FONT></HTML> --part1_95.19f590d1.29d4a200_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:00:21 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: standard package dimensions MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_U/esmW0BpRhdtJ7Nwt57Uw)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_U/esmW0BpRhdtJ7Nwt57Uw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Does anyone know of a web site that gives standard dimensions for QFP, PLCC, etc.? We have a couple of new products coming out and I need to find shipping tubes, hopefully off the shelf. The parts are .175" X .175" X .066", .190" X .220" X .065, and .276" X .378" X .092. Thanks, Dan --Boundary_(ID_U/esmW0BpRhdtJ7Nwt57Uw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Does anyone know of a web site that gives standard dimensions for QFP, PLCC, etc.?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We have a couple of new products coming out and I need to find shipping tubes, hopefully off the shelf.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The parts are .175" X .175" X .066", .190" X .220" X .065, and .276" X .378" X .092.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dan</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> --Boundary_(ID_U/esmW0BpRhdtJ7Nwt57Uw)-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:02:23 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: IPC News Release--IPC AND ITS MEMBERS CLAIM VICTORY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_49.1ad0e868.29d4a69f_boundary" --part1_49.1ad0e868.29d4a69f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Howard! I found a link that has the whole bill in a *.PDF file. Go to: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:H.R.3090: Then click on the PDF link... I think I found the answer to my question about software, I think you can depreciate that too...I just need to read section 167(f)(1)(B) to see if CircuitCam falls under that description... -Steve Gregory- > I also forwarded this to our financial folks, because frankly I don't know > what its impact is to my company. I am making a $147k capital purchase > now, so what is the bottom line benefit to my company? Any ideas? > > Howard Watson > Manufacturing Engineer > AMETEK/Dixson > --part1_49.1ad0e868.29d4a69f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Howard! <BR> <BR>I found a link that has the whole bill in a *.PDF file. Go to: <BR> <BR>http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:H.R.3090: <BR> <BR>Then click on the </FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000ff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><U>PDF</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></U> link... <BR> <BR>I think I found the answer to my question about software, I think you can depreciate that too...I just need to read section 167(f)(1)(B) to see if CircuitCam falls under that description... <BR> <BR>-Steve Gregory- <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I also forwarded this to our financial folks, because frankly I don't know what its impact is to my company. I am making a $147k capital purchase now, so what is the bottom line benefit to my company? Any ideas? <BR> <BR>Howard Watson <BR>Manufacturing Engineer <BR>AMETEK/Dixson <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR></FONT></HTML> --part1_49.1ad0e868.29d4a69f_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:58:47 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Heatsink wanted X-To: Ken Carlile <[log in to unmask]> Carlile, you aninmal, the following are but a few I use daily. Knowing you, I'm sure you'll look at the second one first. I did. http://www.accelindustrial.com/single2.html http://www.usa-assmann.com/ http://www.serteksales.com/page7.html http://www.surplusales.com/Heatsinks/HeatSink-1.html http://www.chtechnology.com/customfr.htm http://www.jdf.dk/menukole.htm http:[log in to unmask] http://www.micforg.co.jp/ http://www.qats.com/html/products.html http://www.darrahelectric.com/ http://www.melcor.com/ http://www.wakefield.com/ http://www.thermalloy.com/ http://www.heatsink.com/bhs.html Wakefield and Thermalloy are most famous. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:08:10 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Conformal coating: high humidity environment. What is the name of the book that you referenced? Is it CLEANING AND CONTAMINATION OF ELECTRONICS COMPONENTS AND ASSEMBLIES ? Thanks, Jason --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:32:41 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Debbie Goodwin <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Debbie Goodwin <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: standard package dimensions X-To: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D67E.903A0770" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D67E.903A0770 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Dan, Our catalog of "Dummy" components contains most of this information as does our website www.practicalcomponents.com <http://www.practicalcomponents.com> Please contact me off line if you would like a hardcopy catalog sent to you. We may also be able to help you with empty tubes/trays. Sincerely, Debbie Goodwin Account Representative 10867 Portal Dr Los Alamitos, CA 90720 Phone = (714) 252-0010 Fax = (714) 252-0026 PLEASE NOTE - Effective Immediately New e-mail address is: [log in to unmask] __________________________________________________ This message is intended for the use of the individual entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by calling 714.252.0010 or returning the original message to us. Thank You. -----Original Message----- From: Dan R. Johnson [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:00 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] standard package dimensions Does anyone know of a web site that gives standard dimensions for QFP, PLCC, etc.? We have a couple of new products coming out and I need to find shipping tubes, hopefully off the shelf. The parts are .175" X .175" X .066", .190" X .220" X .065, and .276" X .378" X .092. Thanks, Dan ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D67E.903A0770 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=260234517-28032002>Hi Dan,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=260234517-28032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=260234517-28032002>Our catalog of "Dummy" components contains most of this information as does our website <FONT color=#000000><A href="http://www.practicalcomponents.com">www.practicalcomponents.com</A></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=260234517-28032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=260234517-28032002>Please contact me off line if you would like a hardcopy catalog sent to you.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=260234517-28032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=260234517-28032002>We may also be able to help you with empty tubes/trays.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=260234517-28032002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=260234517-28032002>Sincerely,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Debbie Goodwin</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Account Representative</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>10867 Portal Dr</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Los Alamitos, CA 90720</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Phone = (714) 252-0010 </FONT><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Fax = (714) 252-0026</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>PLEASE NOTE - Effective Immediately New e-mail address is: [log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>__________________________________________________</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=1>This message is intended for the use of the individual entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by calling </FONT></P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=1>714.252.0010 or returning the original message to us. Thank You.</FONT> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dan R. Johnson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:00 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] standard package dimensions<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Does anyone know of a web site that gives standard dimensions for QFP, PLCC, etc.?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We have a couple of new products coming out and I need to find shipping tubes, hopefully off the shelf.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The parts are .175" X .175" X .066", .190" X .220" X .065, and .276" X .378" X .092.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dan</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D67E.903A0770-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:45:46 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Board Panelization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Good day folks. If a guy who has never been involved in board panelizations wanted to get in and really learn the how too's. Where and how would I go about this? Thanks to all for your undying commitment to a better Industry by the way. Barry. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:44:27 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brummer Chuck <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brummer Chuck <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: another materials question X-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D680.34F601A0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D680.34F601A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark, A rule of thumb is that the greater the resin content the worse the dimensional stability. Lighter glass will also have different thread counts in each direction. Chuck Brummer -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 10:05 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] another materials question I'm learning about laminate materials and read with interest several recent tecnet emails on the subject. I'd like to submit a question about a particular construction that is a challenge with respect to registration. The construction is all 2 core and 3 core. The prepregs are 1-106 and 1-1080, which I have learned are described as resin rich. The construction is balanced with respect to copper weights, glass styles, core thicknesses, and prepreg openings. What I am observing with this part is variation in how much certain cores shrink, lot to lot, and variation that I would describe as a shift or possibly a rotation in some of the internal layers. Am I correct in assuming that these thin cores and these particular prepregs will contribute to lower yields due to misregistration? If anyone would care to offer up ideas on how to tackle the registration challenge that I am observing on this kind of construction, I would appreciate hearing your ideas. Mark J. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D680.34F601A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=710505317-28032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Mark,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=710505317-28032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=710505317-28032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>A rule of thumb is that the greater the resin content the worse the dimensional stability. Lighter glass will also have different thread counts in each direction. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=710505317-28032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=710505317-28032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Chuck Brummer</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=710505317-28032002></SPAN> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 26, 2002 10:05 PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] another materials question<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>I'm learning about laminate materials and read with interest several recent tecnet emails on the subject. <BR>I'd like to submit a question about a particular construction that is a challenge with respect to registration. <BR><BR>The construction is all 2 core and 3 core. The prepregs are 1-106 and 1-1080, which I have learned are described as resin rich. The construction is balanced with respect to copper weights, glass styles, core thicknesses, and prepreg openings. <BR><BR>What I am observing with this part is variation in how much certain cores shrink, lot to lot, <BR>and variation that I would describe as a shift or possibly a rotation in some of the internal layers. <BR><BR>Am I correct in assuming that these thin cores and these particular prepregs will contribute to lower yields due to misregistration? If anyone would care to offer up ideas on how to tackle the registration challenge that I am observing on this kind of construction, I would appreciate hearing your ideas. <BR><BR>Mark J.</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D680.34F601A0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:47:25 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brummer Chuck <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brummer Chuck <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Imaging Clean Rooms X-To: Ken Hafften <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D680.9F4C9A00" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D680.9F4C9A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" IPC has a guide for cleanrooms. TA-724. Look that up. Chuck Brummer Acuson -----Original Message----- From: Ken Hafften [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 6:19 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Imaging Clean Rooms We are in the process of evaluating our clean room for inner and outer layer circuit imaging. I am interested in finding out more information on the use of clean rooms for printed circuit processing, particularly imaging. This would include not only clean room requirements for imaging .003" lines but also methods to achieve the required level of cleanliness. There seems to be alot of information for processing microelectronics but not for printed circuits. Thanks in advance for any help. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D680.9F4C9A00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version = 5.5.2653.12"> <TITLE>RE: [TN] Imaging Clean Rooms</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>IPC has a guide for cleanrooms. TA-724. = Look that up.</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Chuck Brummer</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Acuson</FONT> </P> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Ken Hafften [<A = HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]<= /FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 6:19 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: [TN] Imaging Clean Rooms</FONT> </P> <BR> <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>We are in the process of evaluating our clean room = for inner and outer layer</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>circuit imaging. I am interested in finding = out more information on the use</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>of clean rooms for printed circuit processing, = particularly imaging. This</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>would include not only clean room requirements for = imaging .003" lines but</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>also methods to achieve the required level of = cleanliness. There seems to</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>be alot of information for processing = microelectronics but not for printed</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>circuits. Thanks in advance for any = help.</FONT> </P> <P><FONT = SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC = using LISTSERV 1.8d</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] = with following text in</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF = Technet</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail = to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: = send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > = On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Please visit IPC web site <A = HREF=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" = TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</A> for = additional</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at = [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315</FONT> <BR><FONT = SIZE=3D2>---------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------</FONT> </P> </BODY> </HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D680.9F4C9A00-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:13:38 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Charlie McMahon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Charlie McMahon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Panelization X-To: Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry: This is an issue close to my heart.... When panel choices are on the table, I have found there are no standard methodologies that fit all. The primary reason is due to costing drivers at the board fabricator and placment/productivity constraints at the assembler Therefore, the way to handle this challenge in my view is to provide the individual board size to the fabricator for their review and advisory as to #-up and breakaway methods. Pricing will follow. Upon receipt of this information, submit same to the assembly folks for ratification and or revision. Pricing will follow as well. Both fabricator and assembler need to work together with you to attain the most cost effective panel strategy for you, the client, to meet your pricing goals. Yes, this takes more effort....it need be done but once. However the benefits in yield, productivity, cost and ultimately higher margins to you, the client, can be enhanced. Just a suggestion. Charlie McMahon Barry Gallegos wrote: >Good day folks. >If a guy who has never been involved in board panelizations wanted to get in >and really >learn the how too's. Where and how would I go about this? > >Thanks to all for your undying commitment to a better Industry by the way. > >Barry. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:25:08 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder mask tape dots X-To: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yup - we are and you can try HumiSeal Regards Graham Naisbitt [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Concoat Limited Alasan House, Albany Park Camberley GU16 7PH - UK www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk> Phone: +44 1276 691100 Fax: +44 1276 691227 Mobile: +44 79 6858 2121 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Phil Nutting > Sent: 27 March 2002 15:12 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] solder mask tape dots > > > Here is another question for all you gurus. > > We have a hand build, through hole circuit board that has 8 > locations that must be free of solder for the next level of > assembly. So far I can only find solder mask tape dots at > Contact East. Are there any other suppliers out there? Our > terminal measures 0.28 inch diameter, so a 0.3" pad might be just > the thing. > > Thanks in advance, > > Phil > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:25:05 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Measuring "No Clean" process quality X-To: Volkmar Huss <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Volkmar As the Chairman of a new IEC committee to produce a "Process Characterisation" specification, I can very probably help you. That's the good news! The bad news is that we only have the spec in draft - however, if you wish, I will try to send you something to consider but I will have to send this off-line. Regards Graham Naisbitt [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Concoat Limited Alasan House, Albany Park Camberley GU16 7PH - UK www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk> Phone: +44 1276 691100 Fax: +44 1276 691227 Mobile: +44 79 6858 2121 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Volkmar Huss > Sent: 26 March 2002 14:37 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Measuring "No Clean" process quality > > > Hi TechNetters, > > we are working on defining our "No Clean" soldering process. The > solder-paste and flux manufacturers certify the "No Clean" capability of > > their products to some extend, but what is the definition of "No Clean"? > > And I don't mean the statement, that only inert residues of flux and > solder-paste additives remain on the board. > Are there any standards that can used as a reference? > How do you measure the: > "No Clean" capability of solder paste, flux and tubular solder with flux > > core? > "No Clean" quality of printed board assemblies? > "No Clean" quality of printed board assemblies onto which devices have > been hand-soldered? > and all of this for prototype and series production? > > I have gleaned some insights from the TechNet archives, but any > additional input is very welcome. > > Best regards > > Volkmar Huß > > Engineering Electronic Circuit Boards > Aufbau- und Verbindungstechnik > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > DRÄGER ELECTRONICS > > Draeger Electronics GmbH > Moislinger Allee 53-55 > D-23558 Lübeck > > Tel: +49-451-882-3998 > Fax: +49-451-882-4365 > mailto:[log in to unmask] > Website http://www.draeger.com/de/EL > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > -- > Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen > > Volkmar Huß > > Engineering Electronic Circuit Boards > Aufbau- und Verbindungstechnik > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > DRÄGER ELECTRONICS > > Draeger Electronics GmbH > Moislinger Allee 53-55 > D-23558 Lübeck > > Tel: +49-451-882-3998 > Fax: +49-451-882-4365 > mailto:[log in to unmask] > Website http://www.draeger.com/de/EL > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ > > > ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿý7œ†w > 1¨¥.+-¦º/‰×jÆŸç¬z»âqæò > ð®²)à,„“HDU×ÿ N‹§²æìr¸›{û Ö¦zË ëh,„“HDUüƒÂüäFÂ+a~‰e£ §‚×±¶)í…àN > Í9;azË›ç-~'¥wÿÒ cN TÞr Þµ:-zjhªâ—(Z–×^–+Þ¯* Mç!ëlzw^þf¢–Ú > Ëlz»ÿ —ÿ¢¸ÿHDÓyÈgzÓN0 > N Þqè¯xãD™¨¥ x)z·Zʇږ[azš,¶Ïìzw^þf¢–Ú > Ëlz»ÿ —ÿ¢¸ÿHDÓyÈgzÐâë-Iæ«r kzø¨ºÊh²Ø§‚Æÿ > 0þ*\þ àüéÿ.)ÞEë(º· ³ðÚµ¦Ú±ëÿ ùš P+r ¯zÃåy« ¾+"´ƒÂÁæì ס¶Úÿÿü0Ãø©sú > +ƒømš_ߢ»¦þ f~ ÚuØ ‰Ú–)ߢ¹š¶*'þ Ü¢{ZrÒžiÈRjƦ¢¸š¶Æ¬jJÿ —ÿ¢¸(¯Î;ÿ > =ÿÞôÑìmÿõçÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:00:15 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Maddox, Allen T" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Maddox, Allen T" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: standard package dimensions X-To: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Try here: http://www.jedec.org/download/default.cfm <http://www.jedec.org/download/default.cfm> Allen M. -----Original Message----- From: Dan R. Johnson [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 12:00 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] standard package dimensions Does anyone know of a web site that gives standard dimensions for QFP, PLCC, etc.? We have a couple of new products coming out and I need to find shipping tubes, hopefully off the shelf. The parts are .175" X .175" X .066", .190" X .220" X .065, and .276" X .378" X .092. Thanks, Dan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:31:32 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Safavi-Bayat Shahed <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Safavi-Bayat Shahed <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: standard package dimensions X-To: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D68F.2A8A744E" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D68F.2A8A744E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Try www.toplinedummy.com <http://www.toplinedummy.com> shahed -----Original Message----- From: Dan R. Johnson [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 12:00 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] standard package dimensions Does anyone know of a web site that gives standard dimensions for QFP, PLCC, etc.? We have a couple of new products coming out and I need to find shipping tubes, hopefully off the shelf. The parts are .175" X .175" X .066", .190" X .220" X .065, and .276" X .378" X .092. Thanks, Dan ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D68F.2A8A744E Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><SPAN class=033573819-28032002><FONT face="Courier New" color=#0000ff>Try</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=033573819-28032002><FONT face="Courier New" color=#0000ff><A href="http://www.toplinedummy.com">www.toplinedummy.com</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><SPAN class=033573819-28032002></SPAN><FONT face="Courier New"><FONT color=#0000ff>shahed<SPAN class=033573819-28032002></SPAN></FONT></FONT><BR><BR> <P align=left><FONT face=AvantGarde> </FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Dan R. Johnson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 28, 2002 12:00 PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] standard package dimensions<BR><BR></FONT></P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Does anyone know of a web site that gives standard dimensions for QFP, PLCC, etc.?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We have a couple of new products coming out and I need to find shipping tubes, hopefully off the shelf.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The parts are .175" X .175" X .066", .190" X .220" X .065, and .276" X .378" X .092.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dan</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D68F.2A8A744E-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:51:34 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Flex circuit design guidelines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Technet: I'm looking for some design guidelines for a flex circuit. What factors should be considered when designing a circuit used for continued flexing? Foil thickness, bend radius, etc. I know that IPC 2223 has this info, but I don't have a copy yet and need this information ASAP. Any information will be helpful. Thanks, Jim Marsico Senior Engineer Production Engineering EDO Electronics Systems Group [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> 631-595-5879 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:20:19 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Flex circuit design guidelines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_102.12d97df1.29d4e313_boundary" --part1_102.12d97df1.29d4e313_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jim! Here's a couple of links that might be helpful: http://www.minco.com/pdf/aa24.pdf http://www.allflexinc.com/desi.shtml -Steve Gregory- > Hello Technet: > I'm looking for some design guidelines for a flex circuit. What factors > should be considered when designing a circuit used for continued flexing? > Foil thickness, bend radius, etc. I know that IPC 2223 has this info, but I > don't have a copy yet and need this information ASAP. Any information will > be helpful. > > Thanks, > Jim Marsico > Senior Engineer > Production Engineering > EDO Electronics Systems Group > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > 631-595-5879 > --part1_102.12d97df1.29d4e313_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Jim! <BR> <BR>Here's a couple of links that might be helpful: <BR> <BR>http://www.minco.com/pdf/aa24.pdf <BR>http://www.allflexinc.com/desi.shtml <BR> <BR>-Steve Gregory- <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hello Technet: <BR>I'm looking for some design guidelines for a flex circuit. What factors <BR>should be considered when designing a circuit used for continued flexing? <BR>Foil thickness, bend radius, etc. I know that IPC 2223 has this info, but I <BR>don't have a copy yet and need this information ASAP. Any information will <BR>be helpful. <BR> <BR>Thanks, <BR>Jim Marsico <BR>Senior Engineer <BR>Production Engineering <BR>EDO Electronics Systems Group <BR>[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <BR>631-595-5879 <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"> <BR></FONT></HTML> --part1_102.12d97df1.29d4e313_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:59:39 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Flex circuit design guidelines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi Jim, check http:\\www.mflex.com. They have a design manual. Just got my free copy on CD. Regards, Ioan > -----Original Message----- > From: Marsico, James [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 3:52 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Flex circuit design guidelines > > Hello Technet: > I'm looking for some design guidelines for a flex circuit. What factors > should be considered when designing a circuit used for continued flexing? > Foil thickness, bend radius, etc. I know that IPC 2223 has this info, but > I > don't have a copy yet and need this information ASAP. Any information > will > be helpful. > > Thanks, > Jim Marsico > Senior Engineer > Production Engineering > EDO Electronics Systems Group > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > 631-595-5879 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: > SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 > ext.5315 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:13:30 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Board Panelization X-To: Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01C1D6AE.2C642A20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C1D6AE.2C642A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Barry, One of the most important things to keep in mind when designing a = panelization is how good your panel fits in the pcb-suppliers production = panel, as this determines how efficient the material is used, and thus = the price. With programs like KwickFit (www.micromeg.com, trial version = available) it is easily demonstrated how large the differences can be.=20 The main problem I see is that as for an assembly guy it's hard to tell = where the breakaway-tabs should be, as you need to inspect all the board = layers (you'll want no tab where there's tracks close to it) which may = take lots time. However, leaving it to the pcb vendor sometimes results = in unpleasant surprises. I'd like to hear how other deal with this..... = =20 Daan Terstegge http://www.smtinfo.net ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Barry Gallegos=20 To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 6:45 PM Subject: [TN] Board Panelization Good day folks. If a guy who has never been involved in board panelizations wanted to = get in and really learn the how too's. Where and how would I go about this? Thanks to all for your undying commitment to a better Industry by the = way. Barry. = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV = 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & = Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or = 847-509-9700 ext.5315 = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C1D6AE.2C642A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Hi Barry,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One of the most important things to keep in mind when designing a=20 panelization is how good your panel fits in the pcb-suppliers production = panel,=20 as this determines how efficient the material is used, and = thus the=20 price. With programs like KwickFit (<A=20 href=3D"http://www.micromeg.com">www.micromeg.com</A>, trial version=20 available) it is easily demonstrated how large the differences = can=20 be. </DIV> <DIV>The main problem I see is that as for an assembly guy it's hard to = tell=20 where the breakaway-tabs should be, as you need to inspect all the board = layers=20 (you'll want no tab where there's tracks close to it) which may take = lots=20 time. However, leaving it to the pcb vendor sometimes results in = unpleasant=20 surprises. I'd like to hear how other deal with=20 this..... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Daan Terstegge</DIV> <DIV>http://<A href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net">www.smtinfo.net</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=3DVerdana = size=3D3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Barry Gallegos</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 28, 2002 = 6:45=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Board = Panelization</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Good day folks.<BR>If a guy who has never been involved = in=20 board panelizations wanted to get in<BR>and really<BR>learn the how = too's.=20 Where and how would I go about this?<BR><BR>Thanks to all for your = undying=20 commitment to a better Industry by the=20 = way.<BR><BR>Barry.<BR><BR>-----------------------------------------------= ----------------------------------<BR>Technet=20 Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<BR>To=20 unsubscribe, send a message to <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> with following = text=20 in<BR>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet<BR>To = temporarily halt=20 delivery of Technet send e-mail to <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>: SET Technet = NOMAIL<BR>To=20 receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>: SET Technet=20 Digest<BR>Search previous postings at: <A=20 href=3D"http://www.ipc.org">www.ipc.org</A> > On-Line Resources = &=20 Databases > E-mail Archives<BR>Please visit IPC web site <A=20 = href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.= htm</A>=20 for additional<BR>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> or 847-509-9700=20 = ext.5315<BR>-------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C1D6AE.2C642A20-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:22:31 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, peter lee <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: peter lee <[log in to unmask]> Subject: LPI solder mask In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone know what the difference is between Probimer 52 and Probimer 77 solder mask? In particular, I would like more info. on the impact of switching from 52 to 77 has on the manufacturing process. i.e. Implications and impact on reflow, conformal coating compatibility etc. Rgds, Peter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:33:48 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Self life PC Boards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello Technet, Can someone tell me the shelf life of PC boards with HASL and immersion gold finish? Thanks, Patrick This e-mail may contain SEL confidential information. The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of SEL. Any unauthorized disclosure, distribution or other use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender, permanently delete it, and destroy any printout. Thank you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:06:08 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Dave Hillman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Conformal Coating BGA's X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Peter! Cool, now your underfill rationale falls into place, especially since you were reacting to a less-than-robust design. I have test boards in the thermal cycle chamber right now in an attempt to understand just how much of an "improvement" the underfill operation adds to the solder joint thermal cycle fatigue life. And yes, underfill adds an extra processing step thus increasing time and cost. If the underfill operation doesn't result in a value added benefit for our use environments then it most definitely won't be a suggested process addition. The EMMA project has published an extensive data set on the impact of vibration on area array components (BGA, CSP, FC) which might be useful to you. Contact Lee Whiteman for access to the data ([log in to unmask]). Dave [log in to unmask] on 03/27/2002 06:22:10 PM To: <[log in to unmask]> cc: Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's Hi, Dave, Got a Coke to hand? OK. Reason for underfilling BGA's was that the first BGA boards we had were designed and assembled for us by a s/c. The first time we put them near any form of vibration, and it was gentle, they failed. Investigation followed, and I learned more about BGA's, ENIG boards and the poor manufacturing quality of whoever assembled the things. I had a couple more boards assembled myself, full of sheer terror, as you correctly guessed, of the ENIG and BGA horror stories I'd heard about, and heard about what Underfills were supposed to do. So I opted to use it, partly to fillin the air gap but mostly to add support to the solder joints against creep fatigue. I do know, though, that many high reliability appliactions do not underfill their BGA's, but they've maybe had more money, resources, time and experience to prove it isn't necessary with the processes they use. If I could be confident enough, I wouldn't use it either - it's one more process to take time and cost, right? Peter <ddhillma@rockwellco llins.com> To: [log in to unmask], DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST Aero/ST Group@ST Domain 03/28/02 06:40 AM cc: Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's Hi Peter! You have me confused (which is a normal state for me if I don't have a Coke in my hand). Collins has been using BGAs in avionics use environments, not underfilled, with acrylic conformal coating very successfully for a couple of years. What was the reason/rationale for using BGAs with underfill? Was is an issue with solder joint thermal cycle fatigue for a given use environment? Corrosion? Customer requirements? Residual flux issues? Sheer terror of the unknown? Dave Hillman Rockwell Collins [log in to unmask] [log in to unmask]@ipc.org> on 03/26/2002 07:48:52 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to [log in to unmask] Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's Hi, Bruce, We apply Humiseal acrylic coating to boards that fit your description and application precisely, except that we do underfill the BGA's with a reworkable epoxy, applied after assembly. The only exception was for the case of two boards destined for temperature cycling measurement, for which we couldn't get a supply of underfill material at the time. We substituted thinned Humiseal as the boards would not be flying, as we were concerned about entrapped air and also no suuport for the BGA joints. Humiseal is not a proper substitute for the specialised proper epoxy, but was sufficient for our particular purpose. The main issue as I see it would be moisture and other contaminants in the entrapped air, but I have no first hand data to help you decide if that causes problems or not. Good luck Peter "Misner, Bruce" To: [log in to unmask] <Bruce_Misner cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST @ATK.COM> Aero/ST Group) Sent by: Subject: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's TechNet <[log in to unmask] ORG> 03/20/02 03:48 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Misner, Bruce" My question of the day: Is anyone conformal coating (not parylene) plastic BGA's on FR-4 in Hi-Rel applications (aircraft; -20 to +71C ambient operating temperature requirement) without benefit of an underfil? If yes, has entrapped air been a major issue? Anyone care to comment on this approach? Regards, Bruce Misner --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you.] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you.] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:22:51 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brad Mecham <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brad Mecham <[log in to unmask]> Subject: SMT Ceramic Resonators Does someone know if there is an IPC standard for a SMT Ceramic Resonators which has Castellated Terminations? Does IPC require a good Castellated fillet on both sides of the part even though the pad is continuos? On the middle pad we are getting good wetting on one of the Castellated terminals. However the other side does not have a good fillet. I feel that since the part has a pad all the way underneath itself, that a good Castellated terminal one side means that the bottom pad is also soldered. I guess the question I am asking is, according to IPC do Castellated Terminations (section 12.2.4 of IPC-A-610 C) only apply to Leadless Chip Carriers or any part that has a castellated terminal. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brad Mecham --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:43:10 -0600 Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Seth Goodman <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Conformal Coating BGA's X-To: [log in to unmask] In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Dave, Just curious on this one. When you apply Humiseal to a board with BGA's with no underfill, I take that to mean the coating just bridges the gap between part and board around the perimeter of the BGA without wicking underneath very far. This traps air under the BGA. Obviously this works fine, as you have been using it in avionics for some time and that is a tough environment. My naive question is why doesn't the coating around the BGA perimeter blow out when the trapped air under the BGA heats up due to power dissipation in the BGA itself? If it was going to happen at all, your application is possibly a worst case with the combination of high ambient temperature and low ambient pressure. I would also be interested to know the results of your test to see how the underfill affects the failure rate due to temperature cycling. Since neither the underfill nor the conformal coating will really keep moisture out, it would be nice to know if there are any real benefits conferred by this extra processing step. Seth Goodman -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Dave Hillman Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:06 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's Hi Peter! Cool, now your underfill rationale falls into place, especially since you were reacting to a less-than-robust design. I have test boards in the thermal cycle chamber right now in an attempt to understand just how much of an "improvement" the underfill operation adds to the solder joint thermal cycle fatigue life. And yes, underfill adds an extra processing step thus increasing time and cost. If the underfill operation doesn't result in a value added benefit for our use environments then it most definitely won't be a suggested process addition. The EMMA project has published an extensive data set on the impact of vibration on area array components (BGA, CSP, FC) which might be useful to you. Contact Lee Whiteman for access to the data ([log in to unmask]). Dave [log in to unmask] on 03/27/2002 06:22:10 PM To: <[log in to unmask]> cc: Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's Hi, Dave, Got a Coke to hand? OK. Reason for underfilling BGA's was that the first BGA boards we had were designed and assembled for us by a s/c. The first time we put them near any form of vibration, and it was gentle, they failed. Investigation followed, and I learned more about BGA's, ENIG boards and the poor manufacturing quality of whoever assembled the things. I had a couple more boards assembled myself, full of sheer terror, as you correctly guessed, of the ENIG and BGA horror stories I'd heard about, and heard about what Underfills were supposed to do. So I opted to use it, partly to fillin the air gap but mostly to add support to the solder joints against creep fatigue. I do know, though, that many high reliability appliactions do not underfill their BGA's, but they've maybe had more money, resources, time and experience to prove it isn't necessary with the processes they use. If I could be confident enough, I wouldn't use it either - it's one more process to take time and cost, right? Peter <ddhillma@rockwellco llins.com> To: [log in to unmask], DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST Aero/ST Group@ST Domain 03/28/02 06:40 AM cc: Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's Hi Peter! You have me confused (which is a normal state for me if I don't have a Coke in my hand). Collins has been using BGAs in avionics use environments, not underfilled, with acrylic conformal coating very successfully for a couple of years. What was the reason/rationale for using BGAs with underfill? Was is an issue with solder joint thermal cycle fatigue for a given use environment? Corrosion? Customer requirements? Residual flux issues? Sheer terror of the unknown? Dave Hillman Rockwell Collins [log in to unmask] [log in to unmask]@ipc.org> on 03/26/2002 07:48:52 PM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to [log in to unmask] Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] cc: Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's Hi, Bruce, We apply Humiseal acrylic coating to boards that fit your description and application precisely, except that we do underfill the BGA's with a reworkable epoxy, applied after assembly. The only exception was for the case of two boards destined for temperature cycling measurement, for which we couldn't get a supply of underfill material at the time. We substituted thinned Humiseal as the boards would not be flying, as we were concerned about entrapped air and also no suuport for the BGA joints. Humiseal is not a proper substitute for the specialised proper epoxy, but was sufficient for our particular purpose. The main issue as I see it would be moisture and other contaminants in the entrapped air, but I have no first hand data to help you decide if that causes problems or not. Good luck Peter "Misner, Bruce" To: [log in to unmask] <Bruce_Misner cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST @ATK.COM> Aero/ST Group) Sent by: Subject: [TN] Conformal Coating BGA's TechNet <[log in to unmask] ORG> 03/20/02 03:48 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."; Please respond to "Misner, Bruce" My question of the day: Is anyone conformal coating (not parylene) plastic BGA's on FR-4 in Hi-Rel applications (aircraft; -20 to +71C ambient operating temperature requirement) without benefit of an underfil? If yes, has entrapped air been a major issue? Anyone care to comment on this approach? Regards, Bruce Misner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you.] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person. Thank you.] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:08:46 +0530 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Blistering in PCBs X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Earl, Thanks for your "condolences". I would'nt mind your posting the photographs! Rather it might enable somebody else too to give some insight!! Where would you post them anyway?? Steve's site? Regards Vinit -----Original Message----- From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:36 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Blistering in PCBs I completely agree with the following: IHRlbXBvcmFyaWx5IGhhbHQgZGVsaXZlcnkgb2YgVGVjaG5ldCBzZW5kIGUtbWFpbCB0byBMaXN0 c2VydkBpcGMub3JnOiBTRVQgVGVjaG5ldCBOT01BSUwNCj5UbyByZWNlaXZlIE9ORSBtYWlsaW5n IHBlciBkYXkgb2YgYWxsIHRoZSBwb3N0czogc2VuZCBlLW1haWwgdG8gTGlzdHNlcnZAaXBjLm9y ZzogU0VUIFRlY2huZXQgRGlnZXN0DQo+U2VhcmNo However, Vinit sent me some really ugly photos showing the condition. Out of respect for his privacy and sorrow, I won't even attempt posting them unless he wishes. Never seen anything so ugly. MoonMan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:18:47 +0200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Conformal coating: high humidity environment. X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This seems to be out of context, but I think that this was referred to in the original thread Brian [log in to unmask] wrote: > > What is the name of the book that you referenced? Is it CLEANING AND > CONTAMINATION OF ELECTRONICS COMPONENTS AND ASSEMBLIES ? > > Thanks, > Jason > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:49:27 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Blistering in PCBs X-To: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]> Vinit, Ok, here we go. Never seen nothin' like these before. Oh well, maybe once when I was a "young gun" process engineer at Xerox. That's another story I'll not bore anyone with now. Concerning the pics, it is obvious there is delam everywhere but maybe the edges. Vinitdelam3's discoloration also is delamination, not solder mask related. Someone else take shots at this and Vinit's supplier. This shop shoundn't exist unless they just lost it all on his boards ONE PING ONLY PLEASE. A pleasure to serve Vinit. Don't often get to see how bad something can be besides a train wreck. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:13:26 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Flex circuit design guidelines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello Jim, Quick thought for flex... Use .002 1/1 or half over half adhesiveless Use .001 cover coat (Polyimide Kapton) Termination of cover coat .025-.075 at rigid junction requires this area to be via free for .10 inch... thats a tuff one I know Traces only perpendicularly transition rigid flex Traces only perpendicularly transition rigid flex Relieved planes in flex are very nice for flexing No adhesive between flex pairs Either epoxy or poly rigid works complex flex will require preheat and a fixture after assembly for shape forming If your doing FR4 flex things are different I love flex Boston Brad --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:32:55 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Don Vischulis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Don Vischulis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Blistering in PCBs X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Earl Where can I see these photos? Don't see them on Steve's site. Don Vischulis -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Earl Moon Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 6:49 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Blistering in PCBs Vinit, Ok, here we go. Never seen nothin' like these before. Oh well, maybe once when I was a "young gun" process engineer at Xerox. That's another story I'll not bore anyone with now. Concerning the pics, it is obvious there is delam everywhere but maybe the edges. Vinitdelam3's discoloration also is delamination, not solder mask related. Someone else take shots at this and Vinit's supplier. This shop shoundn't exist unless they just lost it all on his boards ONE PING ONLY PLEASE. A pleasure to serve Vinit. Don't often get to see how bad something can be besides a train wreck. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:48:31 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Subject: solder paste registration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01C1D70F.448172A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C1D70F.448172A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ladies and Gentlemen, We are having a major problem with an assembly house with registering the solder paste to surface mount features prior to pick and place. They are claiming that the boards are growing/shrinking some 15-20 mils. We have done extensive measuring on unpopulated boards in-house and cannot see more than 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel size is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 BGA's throughout the panel. Overall thickness .080. Is it possible that the = mesh screen that they are using can expand/contract over time? has anyone heard of this experienced this situation before. Any information would = be greatly appreciated. Thanks Tony Steinke AIT-Atlanta ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C1D70F.448172A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#fff8e0> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ladies and Gentlemen,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We are having a major problem with an = assembly=20 house with registering</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the solder paste to surface mount = features prior to=20 pick and place. They</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>are claiming that the boards are = growing/shrinking=20 some 15-20 mils.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We have done extensive measuring on = unpopulated=20 boards in-house</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and cannot see more than 3-5 mils = misregistration.=20 The panel size</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 inches, = 20-24 mil=20 pitch, and 15 BGA's</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>throughout the panel. Overall thickness = .080. Is it=20 possible that the mesh</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>screen that they are using can = expand/contract over=20 time? has anyone</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>heard of this experienced this = situation before.=20 Any information would be</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>greatly appreciated.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tony Steinke</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>AIT-Atlanta</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C1D70F.448172A0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:08:34 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "McMullen, Kerry" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder paste registration X-To: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D73B.FA2DC370" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D73B.FA2DC370 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have seen 3-5 mils with our boards. Nothing more. What material are they using for the stencil and the board? -----Original Message----- From: tony steinke [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:49 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] solder paste registration Ladies and Gentlemen, We are having a major problem with an assembly house with registering the solder paste to surface mount features prior to pick and place. They are claiming that the boards are growing/shrinking some 15-20 mils. We have done extensive measuring on unpopulated boards in-house and cannot see more than 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel size is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 BGA's throughout the panel. Overall thickness .080. Is it possible that the mesh screen that they are using can expand/contract over time? has anyone heard of this experienced this situation before. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Tony Steinke AIT-Atlanta ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D73B.FA2DC370 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#fff8e0> <DIV><SPAN class=006001516-29032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I have seen 3-5 mils with our boards. Nothing more. What material are they using for the stencil and the board?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> tony steinke [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 29, 2002 1:49 PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] solder paste registration<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ladies and Gentlemen,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We are having a major problem with an assembly house with registering</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>the solder paste to surface mount features prior to pick and place. They</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>are claiming that the boards are growing/shrinking some 15-20 mils.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We have done extensive measuring on unpopulated boards in-house</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>and cannot see more than 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel size</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 BGA's</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>throughout the panel. Overall thickness .080. Is it possible that the mesh</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>screen that they are using can expand/contract over time? has anyone</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>heard of this experienced this situation before. Any information would be</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>greatly appreciated.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tony Steinke</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>AIT-Atlanta</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D73B.FA2DC370-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:18:52 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Blistering in PCBs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_59.19574e84.29d5edec_boundary" --part1_59.19574e84.29d5edec_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don and Everybody! The pic's are now up! Go to: http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com I gotta say, those are some UGLY boards! -Steve Gregory- > Hey Earl > > Where can I see these photos? Don't see them on Steve's site. > > Don Vischulis > > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Earl Moon > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 6:49 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Blistering in PCBs > > > Vinit, > > Ok, here we go. Never seen nothin' like these before. Oh well, maybe once > when I was a "young gun" process engineer at Xerox. That's another story > I'll not bore anyone with now. > > Concerning the pics, it is obvious there is delam everywhere but maybe the > edges. Vinitdelam3's discoloration also is delamination, not solder mask > related. > > Someone else take shots at this and Vinit's supplier. This shop shoundn't > exist unless they just lost it all on his boards ONE PING ONLY PLEASE. > > A pleasure to serve Vinit. Don't often get to see how bad something can be > besides a train wreck. > > MoonMan > --part1_59.19574e84.29d5edec_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Don and Everybody!<BR> <BR> The pic's are now up! Go to: http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com<BR> <BR> I gotta say, those are some UGLY boards!<BR> <BR> -Steve Gregory-<BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hey Earl<BR> <BR> Where can I see these photos? Don't see them on Steve's site.<BR> <BR> Don Vischulis<BR> <BR> -----Original Message-----<BR> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Earl Moon<BR> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 6:49 AM<BR> To: [log in to unmask]<BR> Subject: Re: [TN] Blistering in PCBs<BR> <BR> <BR> Vinit,<BR> <BR> Ok, here we go. Never seen nothin' like these before. Oh well, maybe once<BR> when I was a "young gun" process engineer at Xerox. That's another story<BR> I'll not bore anyone with now.<BR> <BR> Concerning the pics, it is obvious there is delam everywhere but maybe the<BR> edges. Vinitdelam3's discoloration also is delamination, not solder mask<BR> related.<BR> <BR> Someone else take shots at this and Vinit's supplier. This shop shoundn't<BR> exist unless they just lost it all on his boards ONE PING ONLY PLEASE.<BR> <BR> A pleasure to serve Vinit. Don't often get to see how bad something can be<BR> besides a train wreck.<BR> <BR> MoonMan<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_59.19574e84.29d5edec_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:47:39 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder paste registration X-To: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <html> We have only seen stretch on our stencils cause a problem when they are old and very used. At this point it is best to purchase a new stencil, as it will pay for itself with reduced defects almost immediately. It may be worth while to see how the board is fixtured, as it can sometimes shift during the print cycle from time to time and cause problems. <br><br> Hope some of this is useful.<br><br> Ed<br><br> <br><br> <br> At 10:48 AM 3/29/2002 -0800, you wrote:<br> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font face="arial" size=2>Ladies and Gentlemen,</font><br> <br> <font face="arial" size=2>We are having a major problem with an assembly house with registering</font><br> <font face="arial" size=2>the solder paste to surface mount features prior to pick and place. They</font><br> <font face="arial" size=2>are claiming that the boards are growing/shrinking some 15-20 mils.</font><br> <font face="arial" size=2>We have done extensive measuring on unpopulated boards in-house</font><br> <font face="arial" size=2>and cannot see more than 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel size</font><br> <font face="arial" size=2>is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 BGA's</font><br> <font face="arial" size=2>throughout the panel. Overall thickness .080. Is it possible that the mesh</font><br> <font face="arial" size=2>screen that they are using can expand/contract over time? has anyone</font><br> <font face="arial" size=2>heard of this experienced this situation before. Any information would be</font><br> <font face="arial" size=2>greatly appreciated.</font><br> <br> <font face="arial" size=2>Thanks</font><br> <font face="arial" size=2>Tony Steinke</font><br> <font face="arial" size=2>AIT-Atlanta</font></blockquote><br> </html> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:01:59 +0200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder paste registration X-To: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony You don't say what type of screen is being used. If it's a nylon/polyester one, then I'd say you're in deep trouble. If it's a stainless steel one, it can still stretch as the squeegee distorts it. You really should use a stencil. Brian > tony steinke wrote: > > Ladies and Gentlemen, > > We are having a major problem with an assembly house with registering > the solder paste to surface mount features prior to pick and place. > They > are claiming that the boards are growing/shrinking some 15-20 mils. > We have done extensive measuring on unpopulated boards in-house > and cannot see more than 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel size > is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 BGA's > throughout the panel. Overall thickness .080. Is it possible that the > mesh > screen that they are using can expand/contract over time? has anyone > heard of this experienced this situation before. Any information would > be > greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > Tony Steinke > AIT-Atlanta --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:06:21 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Jorge Santana <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Jorge Santana <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Underwater application MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi We need found out a way to keep the board working in a underwater environment, there is possibilities of occasional flood inside the box enclosure and the board has to survive, the water came from rain. Folks from automotive world " under hood applications" have this experience since cars are subject to flood also. What kind of material is used ? What recommended thickness ? We are thinking about RTV Elastomeric Conformal Coating. It is not necessary to say that the solution should be not expensive and effective. Thanks Jorge Santana --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:15:04 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder paste registration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Folks, The solder paste is being applied with a stencil. Thanks for all the info. Tony steinke ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum. <[log in to unmask]>; tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [TN] solder paste registration > Tony > > You don't say what type of screen is being used. If it's a > nylon/polyester one, then I'd say you're in deep trouble. If it's a > stainless steel one, it can still stretch as the squeegee distorts it. > You really should use a stencil. > > Brian > > > tony steinke wrote: > > > > Ladies and Gentlemen, > > > > We are having a major problem with an assembly house with registering > > the solder paste to surface mount features prior to pick and place. > > They > > are claiming that the boards are growing/shrinking some 15-20 mils. > > We have done extensive measuring on unpopulated boards in-house > > and cannot see more than 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel size > > is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 BGA's > > throughout the panel. Overall thickness .080. Is it possible that the > > mesh > > screen that they are using can expand/contract over time? has anyone > > heard of this experienced this situation before. Any information would > > be > > greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Tony Steinke > > AIT-Atlanta --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:30:28 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Underwater application X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" hi, i know, i know...here i go again with parylene. but it will work. phil -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Santana [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:06 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Underwater application Hi We need found out a way to keep the board working in a underwater environment, there is possibilities of occasional flood inside the box enclosure and the board has to survive, the water came from rain. Folks from automotive world " under hood applications" have this experience since cars are subject to flood also. What kind of material is used ? What recommended thickness ? We are thinking about RTV Elastomeric Conformal Coating. It is not necessary to say that the solution should be not expensive and effective. Thanks Jorge Santana --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:45:37 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder paste registration X-To: [log in to unmask] Tony, You know the stencil is not the first concern. The board may be very different than the foil as it too moves though the stencil is pretty set in concrete upon receipt. Always see no green when the stencil is ready for printing. Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:54:37 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: solder paste registration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_141.bfb2ba6.29d6045d_boundary" --part1_141.bfb2ba6.29d6045d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tony! How old is the stencil? I think for it to stretch it would have to quite old and have been used to print thousands of boards...stainless steel (which is the standard) doesn't stretch that much... What it could be is that the tension of the stencil within the frame is not what it should be, and along with high squeegee pressure, is pulling the stencil off registration in the direction of the print stroke. I've seen that happen even with a fairly new stencil when there has been to much squeegee pressure set in the printer program... I can just about bet it has something to do with either machine set-up, or a loose stencil...and NOT the board. -Steve Gregory- > Ladies and Gentlemen, > > We are having a major problem with an assembly house with registering > the solder paste to surface mount features prior to pick and place. They > are claiming that the boards are growing/shrinking some 15-20 mils. > We have done extensive measuring on unpopulated boards in-house > and cannot see more than 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel size > is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 BGA's > throughout the panel. Overall thickness .080. Is it possible that the mesh > screen that they are using can expand/contract over time? has anyone > heard of this experienced this situation before. Any information would be > greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > Tony Steinke > AIT-Atlanta > --part1_141.bfb2ba6.29d6045d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#fff8e0"><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Tony!<BR> <BR> How old is the stencil? I think for it to stretch it would have to quite old and have been used to print thousands of boards...stainless steel (which is the standard) doesn't stretch that much...<BR> <BR> What it could be is that the tension of the stencil within the frame is not what it should be, and along with high squeegee pressure, is pulling the stencil off registration in the direction of the print stroke. I've seen that happen even with a fairly new stencil when there has been to much squeegee pressure set in the printer program...<BR> <BR> I can just about bet it has something to do with either machine set-up, or a loose stencil...and NOT the board.<BR> <BR> -Steve Gregory- <BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Ladies and Gentlemen,</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">We are having a major problem with an assembly house with registering</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">the solder paste to surface mount features prior to pick and place. They</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">are claiming that the boards are growing/shrinking some 15-20 mils.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">We have done extensive measuring on unpopulated boards in-house</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">and cannot see more than 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel size</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 BGA's</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">throughout the panel. Overall thickness .080. Is it possible that the mesh</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">screen that they are using can expand/contract over time? has anyone</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">heard of this experienced this situation before. Any information would be</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">greatly appreciated.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Thanks</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Tony Steinke</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">AIT-Atlanta</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff8e0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_141.bfb2ba6.29d6045d_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:59:27 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Jindra, Larry" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Jindra, Larry" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Solder Ball Wrinkles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We have a lot of BGA packages from a custom package house with a "wrinkled" appearance to the ball surface, most pronounced on top of the ball, where they will interface with the PCB. These packages are prone to shorting. Does anyone out there have an idea of what might cause that "wrinkled" appearance, and why it might make the package succeptible to shorting? Larry Jindra Mfg Engr Group Lead TRW Radio Systems [log in to unmask] w) 858-592-3424 f) 858-592-3940 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:04:28 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder paste registration X-To: "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1D74C.2B680C10" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D74C.2B680C10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This sounds almost like the mesh that holds the stencil in the frame is becoming weak and stretched allowing for extensive movement of the stencil during the printing operation. IMHO. Barry. -----Original Message----- From: Edward S. Wheeler [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:48 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] solder paste registration We have only seen stretch on our stencils cause a problem when they are old and very used. At this point it is best to purchase a new stencil, as it will pay for itself with reduced defects almost immediately. It may be worth while to see how the board is fixtured, as it can sometimes shift during the print cycle from time to time and cause problems. Hope some of this is useful. Ed At 10:48 AM 3/29/2002 -0800, you wrote: Ladies and Gentlemen, We are having a major problem with an assembly house with registering the solder paste to surface mount features prior to pick and place. They are claiming that the boards are growing/shrinking some 15-20 mils. We have done extensive measuring on unpopulated boards in-house and cannot see more than 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel size is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 BGA's throughout the panel. Overall thickness .080. Is it possible that the mesh screen that they are using can expand/contract over time? has anyone heard of this experienced this situation before. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Tony Steinke AIT-Atlanta ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D74C.2B680C10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=980580218-29032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>This sounds almost like the mesh that holds the</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=980580218-29032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>stencil in the frame is becoming weak and stretched</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=980580218-29032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>allowing for extensive movement of the stencil during</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=980580218-29032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>the printing operation. IMHO.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=980580218-29032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=980580218-29032002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Barry.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Edward S. Wheeler [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 29, 2002 9:48 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] solder paste registration<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>We have only seen stretch on our stencils cause a problem when they are old and very used. At this point it is best to purchase a new stencil, as it will pay for itself with reduced defects almost immediately. It may be worth while to see how the board is fixtured, as it can sometimes shift during the print cycle from time to time and cause problems. <BR><BR>Hope some of this is useful.<BR><BR>Ed<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>At 10:48 AM 3/29/2002 -0800, you wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=arial size=2>Ladies and Gentlemen,</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT face=arial size=2>We are having a major problem with an assembly house with registering</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2>the solder paste to surface mount features prior to pick and place. They</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2>are claiming that the boards are growing/shrinking some 15-20 mils.</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2>We have done extensive measuring on unpopulated boards in-house</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2>and cannot see more than 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel size</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2>is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 BGA's</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2>throughout the panel. Overall thickness .080. Is it possible that the mesh</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2>screen that they are using can expand/contract over time? has anyone</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2>heard of this experienced this situation before. Any information would be</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2>greatly appreciated.</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT face=arial size=2>Thanks</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2>Tony Steinke</FONT><BR><FONT face=arial size=2>AIT-Atlanta</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1D74C.2B680C10-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:16:21 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Rudy Sedlak <[log in to unmask]> Subject: COD/BOD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A general inquiry. Who/how many among our PCB Bare Board Fabricators are concerned over BOD/COD of their waste water? Are you doing special treatment, or making special choices in chemistry/process, to deal with that issue? Rudy Sedlak --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:22:03 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Solder Ball Wrinkles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_d0.24b669e7.29d60acb_boundary" --part1_d0.24b669e7.29d60acb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Larry! The "wrinkled" appearance is not all that unusual, and according to this file below, is not a defect unless it is extreme. Go to: http://www.cooksonsemi.com/pdfs/BGASolderBumpQual.pdf The fact that you are experiencing a lot of shorts, IMHO points somewhere else than wrinkled surfaces on the spheres...I would think if anything, wrinkled surfaces of the spheres would cause voiding problems... My 2-cents.. -Steve Gregory- > We have a lot of BGA packages from a custom package house with a "wrinkled" > appearance to the ball surface, most pronounced on top of the ball, where > they will interface with the PCB. These packages are prone to shorting. > > Does anyone out there have an idea of what might cause that "wrinkled" > appearance, and why it might make the package succeptible to shorting? > > > Larry Jindra > Mfg Engr Group Lead > TRW Radio Systems > [log in to unmask] > w) 858-592-3424 > f) 858-592-3940 > --part1_d0.24b669e7.29d60acb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Larry!<BR> <BR> The "wrinkled" appearance is not all that unusual, and according to this file below, is not a defect unless it is extreme. Go to:<BR> <BR> http://www.cooksonsemi.com/pdfs/BGASolderBumpQual.pdf<BR> <BR> The fact that you are experiencing a lot of shorts, IMHO points somewhere else than wrinkled surfaces on the spheres...I would think if anything, wrinkled surfaces of the spheres would cause voiding problems...<BR> <BR> My 2-cents..<BR> <BR> -Steve Gregory-<BR> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">We have a lot of BGA packages from a custom package house with a "wrinkled" appearance to the ball surface, most pronounced on top of the ball, where they will interface with the PCB. These packages are prone to shorting.<BR> <BR> Does anyone out there have an idea of what might cause that "wrinkled" appearance, and why it might make the package succeptible to shorting?<BR> <BR> <BR> Larry Jindra<BR> Mfg Engr Group Lead<BR> TRW Radio Systems<BR> [log in to unmask]<BR> w) 858-592-3424<BR> f) 858-592-3940<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_d0.24b669e7.29d60acb_boundary-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:37:06 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Edward S. Wheeler" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Solder Ball Wrinkles X-To: "Jindra, Larry" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask] > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed We have noticed that on BGA devices that undergo warp during the reflow cycle (shadow moire results showed the parts would warp up at the ends, then down, then up) can cause this if the joint is moving during the transition back to solid. The joint looks similar to wrinkled tin foil. When we have parts that don't warp with all of the same parameters, the joint is smooth and shiny. Our main failure with these warping parts has been a head in pillow open. Ed At 09:59 AM 3/29/2002 -0800, you wrote: >We have a lot of BGA packages from a custom package house with a >"wrinkled" appearance to the ball surface, most pronounced on top of the >ball, where they will interface with the PCB. These packages are prone to >shorting. > >Does anyone out there have an idea of what might cause that "wrinkled" >appearance, and why it might make the package succeptible to shorting? > > >Larry Jindra >Mfg Engr Group Lead >TRW Radio Systems >[log in to unmask] >w) 858-592-3424 >f) 858-592-3940 > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: >SET Technet NOMAIL >To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to >[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > >E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 >ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:53:48 +0100 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder paste registration X-To: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01C1D75B.711CE780" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C1D75B.711CE780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Perhaps the assembler is using only 2 fiducials on their printer ? Then = the deviation can be partly due to the board, with the remainder = resulting from the fact that a 2 fiducial cannot compensate for rotation = in the machine.=20 Daan Terstegge http://www.smtinfo.net =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: tony steinke=20 To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [TN] solder paste registration Hey Folks, The solder paste is being applied with a stencil. Thanks for all the = info. Tony steinke ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum. <[log in to unmask]>; tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [TN] solder paste registration > Tony > > You don't say what type of screen is being used. If it's a > nylon/polyester one, then I'd say you're in deep trouble. If it's a > stainless steel one, it can still stretch as the squeegee distorts = it. > You really should use a stencil. > > Brian > > > tony steinke wrote: > > > > Ladies and Gentlemen, > > > > We are having a major problem with an assembly house with = registering > > the solder paste to surface mount features prior to pick and = place. > > They > > are claiming that the boards are growing/shrinking some 15-20 = mils. > > We have done extensive measuring on unpopulated boards in-house > > and cannot see more than 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel size > > is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 = BGA's > > throughout the panel. Overall thickness .080. Is it possible that = the > > mesh > > screen that they are using can expand/contract over time? has = anyone > > heard of this experienced this situation before. Any information = would > > be > > greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Tony Steinke > > AIT-Atlanta = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV = 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & = Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or = 847-509-9700 ext.5315 = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C1D75B.711CE780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV>Perhaps the assembler is using only 2 fiducials on their printer = ? =20 Then the deviation can be partly due to the board, with the remainder = resulting=20 from the fact that a 2 fiducial cannot compensate for rotation in the=20 machine. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Daan Terstegge</DIV> <DIV><A href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net">http://www.smtinfo.net</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A [log in to unmask] = href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">tony=20 steinke</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 29, 2002 = 9:15=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] solder paste=20 registration</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Hey Folks,<BR>The solder paste is being applied with a = stencil.=20 Thanks for all the info.<BR>Tony steinke<BR>----- Original Message=20 -----<BR>From: Brian Ellis <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>><BR>= To:=20 TechNet E-Mail Forum. <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>>; tony = steinke<BR><<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>>= <BR>Sent:=20 Friday, March 29, 2002 9:01 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [TN] solder paste=20 registration<BR><BR><BR>> Tony<BR>><BR>> You don't say what = type of=20 screen is being used. If it's a<BR>> nylon/polyester one, then I'd = say=20 you're in deep trouble. If it's a<BR>> stainless steel one, it can = still=20 stretch as the squeegee distorts it.<BR>> You really should use a=20 stencil.<BR>><BR>> Brian<BR>><BR>> > tony steinke=20 wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> > Ladies and Gentlemen,<BR>> = ><BR>>=20 > We are having a major problem with an assembly house with=20 registering<BR>> > the solder paste to surface mount features = prior to=20 pick and place.<BR>> > They<BR>> > are claiming that the = boards=20 are growing/shrinking some 15-20 mils.<BR>> > We have done = extensive=20 measuring on unpopulated boards in-house<BR>> > and cannot see = more than=20 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel size<BR>> > is approximately = 14.00 x=20 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 BGA's<BR>> > throughout = the panel.=20 Overall thickness .080. Is it possible that the<BR>> > = mesh<BR>> >=20 screen that they are using can expand/contract over time? has = anyone<BR>>=20 > heard of this experienced this situation before. Any information=20 would<BR>> > be<BR>> > greatly appreciated.<BR>> = ><BR>>=20 > Thanks<BR>> > Tony Steinke<BR>> >=20 = AIT-Atlanta<BR><BR>------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------<BR>Technet=20 Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<BR>To=20 unsubscribe, send a message to <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> with following = text=20 in<BR>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet<BR>To = temporarily halt=20 delivery of Technet send e-mail to <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>: SET Technet = NOMAIL<BR>To=20 receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>: SET Technet=20 Digest<BR>Search previous postings at: <A=20 href=3D"http://www.ipc.org">www.ipc.org</A> > On-Line Resources = &=20 Databases > E-mail Archives<BR>Please visit IPC web site <A=20 = href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.= htm</A>=20 for additional<BR>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> or 847-509-9700=20 = ext.5315<BR>-------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C1D75B.711CE780-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:22:56 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder paste registration X-To: [log in to unmask] Ah ha ha ha, Steve, Agree it's most likely to do with the stencil and its surrounding retainer or age of both. However, I've seen many times it WAS the board. Earl Moon --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:41:24 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder paste registration X-To: [log in to unmask] Tony, This is a subject always needing attention, in my not so humble opinion but objective study and observation. As Daan said, fids can be off. This also means other pads can be off on boards especially multiple ups. The Gerber is one thing to a board going through all "normal" process and quite another to stencils with very high dimensional stability. Anyway, matching the stencil to the board pads/fids is easily done on the printer. Also, printing a miylar over the panels before committing to production works as well - ESD safe material of course. Love those DEKS as you can press F2, I think, and have the rising table rise so solder paste can be applied. At this time you can observe stencil to pad registration so you only see metal instead of green as the board. Hell, you folks all know this, MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:55:59 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Jorge Santana <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Jorge Santana <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder paste registration X-To: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1D729.75BC7300" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1D729.75BC7300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tony This is easy to see in the screen printer machine, just load the board and do the align without printing ( most of screen printers has this capabilities ) , go into the machine and see if all stencil apertures are aligned with the board pads, from there you have the final conclusion ... Jorge Santana -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of tony steinke Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 12:49 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] solder paste registration Ladies and Gentlemen, We are having a major problem with an assembly house with registering the solder paste to surface mount features prior to pick and place. They are claiming that the boards are growing/shrinking some 15-20 mils. We have done extensive measuring on unpopulated boards in-house and cannot see more than 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel size is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 BGA's throughout the panel. Overall thickness .080. Is it possible that the mesh screen that they are using can expand/contract over time? has anyone heard of this experienced this situation before. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Tony Steinke AIT-Atlanta ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1D729.75BC7300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2713.1100" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#fff8e0> <DIV><SPAN class=3D610225119-29032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2> Tony</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D610225119-29032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D610225119-29032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2> =20 This is easy to see in the screen printer machine, just load the board=20 and do the align without printing ( most of screen printers has = this=20 capabilities ) , go into the machine and see if all stencil apertures = are=20 aligned with the board pads, from there you have the final conclusion=20 ...</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D610225119-29032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D610225119-29032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Jorge=20 Santana</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D610225119-29032002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20 [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>tony = steinke<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20 Friday, March 29, 2002 12:49 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20 [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] solder paste=20 registration<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ladies and Gentlemen,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We are having a major problem with an = assembly=20 house with registering</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the solder paste to surface mount = features prior=20 to pick and place. They</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>are claiming that the boards are=20 growing/shrinking some 15-20 mils.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We have done extensive measuring on = unpopulated=20 boards in-house</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and cannot see more than 3-5 mils=20 misregistration. The panel size</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 = inches, 20-24 mil=20 pitch, and 15 BGA's</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>throughout the panel. Overall = thickness .080. Is=20 it possible that the mesh</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>screen that they are using can = expand/contract=20 over time? has anyone</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>heard of this experienced this = situation before.=20 Any information would be</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>greatly appreciated.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tony Steinke</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>AIT-Atlanta</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C1D729.75BC7300-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:31:09 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Underwater application MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would recommend an acrylic as my first choice, probably coated twice. Jon Moore --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:31:55 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Underwater application MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/29/2002 12:35:04 PM US Eastern Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes: << i know, i know...here i go again with parylene. but it will work. >> I agree Phil, but he did say cost was a factor. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:49:02 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Afri Singh <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Afri Singh <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Tiny black spots on copper foil surface MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" how about some dust or carbon from the scrubber -- drier section Do you have filters on your drier ? or pieces of rubber from the rollers breaking off -----Original Message----- From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 9:54 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Tiny black spots on copper foil surface Or somebody sneezed. You might try to recreate the spots by flicking some water on the panel. It could also be algae growing in the tanks. When I hear black spots on copper I think tarnish. Hans -----Original Message----- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 2:57 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Tiny black spots on copper foil surface Shirley, Sounds like it might be very very small pin holes in your resist that is letting in a microscopic amount of etchant. JaMi Smith -----Original Message----- From: Shirley Xiao [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:14 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Tiny black spots on copper foil surface Dear All: We encountered a problem after develop, etch & strip. Lots of tiny black spots were found on copper surface. We are sure that these tiny black spots are not oxidization.They can not be removed by acetone but is removable by micro etch.Before get result by EDX element analysis, I wish anyone have similar experience can share some information with me. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards(r) http://movies.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:13:06 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Solder Ball Wrinkles X-To: "Jindra, Larry" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I read your message, we are not talking about BGAs that were mounted on boards. These are the packages before they were installed? It this true? Yes, I would be worried. Sound like something was wrong in the solder ball attach process. I am not very familiar with commercial methods. Reballing processes that produce wrinkled balls can be caused by excessive heat and excessive convection. > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jindra, Larry > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 12:59 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Solder Ball Wrinkles > > > We have a lot of BGA packages from a custom package house with a > "wrinkled" appearance to the ball surface, most pronounced on top > of the ball, where they will interface with the PCB. These > packages are prone to shorting. > > Does anyone out there have an idea of what might cause that > "wrinkled" appearance, and why it might make the package > succeptible to shorting? > > > Larry Jindra > Mfg Engr Group Lead > TRW Radio Systems > [log in to unmask] > w) 858-592-3424 > f) 858-592-3940 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:35:47 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Chris Almeras <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Chris Almeras <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Underwater application MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is there any other environmental issues this assembly faces besides the = moisture?(I.E. temperature,vibration, etc....) If there are no other = concerns, I would consider an acrylic, possibly Humiseal 1B73 or 1B31. = We do have an assembly that is encapsulated with Shin-Etsu KE109E. The = customer puts it through a test where it has to work while submerged for = a certain amount of time during heavy vibration. It is not a real = expensive option, but it is not as cheap as the acrylic option. Chris Almeras -----Original Message----- From: Jorge Santana [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 12:06 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Underwater application Hi We need found out a way to keep the board working in a underwater environment, there is possibilities of occasional flood inside the box enclosure and the board has to survive, the water came from rain. Folks from automotive world " under hood applications" have this experience since cars are subject to flood also. What kind of material is used ? What recommended thickness ? We are thinking about RTV Elastomeric Conformal Coating. It is not necessary to say that the solution should be not expensive = and effective. Thanks Jorge Santana -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text = in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: = SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases = > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 = ext.5315 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:19:24 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, "Jindra, Larry" <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: "Jindra, Larry" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Solder Ball Wrinkles X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" True, I was talking about appearance of the BGAs prior to mounting. We just did a blind installation test with the same packages from an earlier lot that did not exhibit "wrinkles." The result show a significantly greater voiding joints from the "wrinkled" BGAs, given the same paste, place and reflow processing parameters. Given that the same things that cause voiding can cause shorting, we have a process problem that appears to be caused by a supplier process. The packaging vendor claims the bad balls saw a normal process. I need to tell them we suspect they are ..... Larry Jindra Mfg Engr Group Lead TRW Radio Systems [log in to unmask] w) 858-592-3424 f) 858-592-3940 -----Original Message----- From: Guy Ramsey [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:13 PM To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.; Jindra, Larry Subject: RE: [TN] Solder Ball Wrinkles As I read your message, we are not talking about BGAs that were mounted on boards. These are the packages before they were installed? It this true? Yes, I would be worried. Sound like something was wrong in the solder ball attach process. I am not very familiar with commercial methods. Reballing processes that produce wrinkled balls can be caused by excessive heat and excessive convection. > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jindra, Larry > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 12:59 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Solder Ball Wrinkles > > > We have a lot of BGA packages from a custom package house with a > "wrinkled" appearance to the ball surface, most pronounced on top > of the ball, where they will interface with the PCB. These > packages are prone to shorting. > > Does anyone out there have an idea of what might cause that > "wrinkled" appearance, and why it might make the package > succeptible to shorting? > > > Larry Jindra > Mfg Engr Group Lead > TRW Radio Systems > [log in to unmask] > w) 858-592-3424 > f) 858-592-3940 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:11:29 -0600 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder paste registration X-To: [log in to unmask] Right on Right on and as a plus, print a mylar on top of the pads and determine if acceptable. What is it? - 25% misaligned for fine pitch and 35 for all else? Who has this answer? IPC? But it works well for most with a little fudge factor but not without verification before commiting to production of any amount. MoonMan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:26:11 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, JaMi Smith <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: JaMi Smith <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Blistering in PCBs - A possible answer X-cc: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Vinit and the group - =20 I have seen this before - =20 Apologies up front for the long post - =20 I am assuming that we are talking about the last four photos at the webpage stevezeva.homestead.com, which are labeled Bad Board, Bad Board 2, Bad Board 3, and Bad Board 4. =20 If so then here is my take as relates to the "raised vias" shown in Bad Board 2 and Bad Board 4, and this may be the key to understanding the related problems. =20 About 12 to 13 years ago, I came on board at Datatape., in Pasadena California, as a Sr. Designer. Although my work background had been primarily as a PCB Designer working my way up to become a Sr. Design Engineer for TRW, at Datatape, I was hired into the Electrical Engineering Department as a troubleshooter primarily because while not degreed, I have a broad background in Electronics, and hence because of by cross disciplines I could communicate not only to Engineering, but also to folks in Design and Drafting , as well as those in Manufacturing. =20 My first crisis was an overdue Military Contract VME Style Backplane for 16 Cards with 3 96 Pin Connectors each, that was 11 layers at .238" thick due to impedance requirements for ECL Logic. =20 Yes, you read correctly, almost =BC inch. =20 Well the first batch from the first PCB supplier in Monrovia California, ended up with massive shorts of almost all of the holes, to almost all of the supply lines and ground. To make a long story short, this was due to the fab house using the same feeds and speeds and drill changes on that board as they would have on a 1/8 inch thick board, which, needless to say dulled the drills immediately and ended up snagging most if not all of the internal pads and ripping them out, which in turn caused all of the material in each hole to be ripped out also, leaving all (or most) of the holes with a clean entry and exit (due to aluminum backing sheets), but a large caveran inside each hole which exposed all of the edges of the clearance holes in the 5 power and ground planes, and plated everything into one massive short. =20 Well I finally convinced the fab shop as to exactly what they had done wrong and then had to convince them that they really could make the boards properly after all, and I had them contact their Excellon Rep (for help with drilling feeds and speeds and drill life for a =BC inch board), and made some minor adjustments to hole sizes and allowed them to remove unused pads from the internal layers. Then I just sat back and waited for the next turn of the board. I new that we had failed when the shop foreman failed to call me back after an ohmmeter check after final etch, and when I called them I was told he had gone down the street cursing and screaming to a local bar. This time the holes were beautiful, but the layer to layer registration was off since they didn't use pins and just threw the whole large stack up into the laminating press with only a few "hot glue" spot bonds to hold everything together. That's like an In 'n Out Double Double Hambuger with extra mayo, extra cheese, extra tomato, and extra onions, when you try to mash it down to get in into the wrapper, everything shifts! =20 This left me to find someone who could make the boards properly and quickly. I went to 2 different shops with the same order, one shop in Huntington Beach California for 3 boards 1 week @ $13K each, and the other shop in Florida for 3 boards 1 week @ $1K each. Major difference in price, but Florida was a backup anyway, which I had located after we contracted with the other guy, and we needed the boards done right three weeks ago by then, so that was a small price for insurance. =20 The supplier in Huntington Beach, who used an autoclave, delivered perfect boards on time and went out and bought a new car off of that job (or so he told me). However the supplier in Florida delivered 3 boards that had all of the holes (small holes) and vias in the board raised and looking exactly like the photos on the website, labeled "raised vias". =20 This is what I found: =20 The first thing that I noticed was that a surprising number of the holes had some peculiar "black flakes" in them which you could see when looking into the hole with a lupe. While I did not have any fancy "bore scope" or other tool other than a lupe, to examine the hole with, I came to the conclusion that these "flakes" were actually protruding from (or stuck into) the wall of the PTH. It almost looked like there was a 2 mil thick layer of graphite or carbon that was in the middle of the board that hat chipped in some holes and left a flake protruding from the PTH wall. =20 My initial conclusion was that the boards were bad and I wanted to reject them, but I had to either find a reason to reject them or eat the $3K, which by then was a small piece of change anyway. =20 I used an ohmmeter to check a few of the worst looking holes, but they showed continuity. Nonetheless, I knew they were bad. I called the Company who had done the Mil Continuity Certification, which was different than the supplier, and he assured me that the boards were checked and all passed, but that no, he did not remember any "raised vias" as I had described them to him. =20 That description, by the way was essentially this: When you held the board up to a light source so that you could see the light reflected off of the surface of the board, you could see that board surface surrounding virtually each and every via was raised above the normal flat surface of the board, and that the groups of 96 holes at each connector location were also raised. It looked like a little island sticking up out of a calm sea, and while I never measured the height of the rise, it was visually very noticeable, similar to those shown in photo Bare Board 2. =20 Well, I didn't know what to do to prove that the boards were bad, since I didn't want to pay for them I couldn't very well section one of the boards and then try to send it back, and the test coupons had not been properly masked so the top and bottom layers as well as all plating from the holes had been etched away, and then they were separated from the boards and so they did not exhibit any of the problems. =20 I finally got some aluminum foil, Reynolds Wrap if I remember, and made a large pad that I could hook to one of the test leads of the ohmmeter, and use as a massive "contact" to contact all of the bottom pads on the board in an area that I wanted to check. I then set about checking the continuity of each and every hole of each connector (over 4600 holes), as well as all of the vias (several hundred additional holes as vias). I checked for continuity from the pad (annular ring) on the top side of the hole to the pad on the bottom side of the hole, of each and every hole. I wasn't doing a net list check, all I was doing was checking each hole for top to bottom continuity. =20 I was about to give up when I found my first hole with an "open", and when I checked the hole with the lupe, I expected to see flakes, but saw instead a beautiful hole, and couldn't even tell visually that there was a break in the wall since it looked so smooth. =20 I ultimately found that that board had a total of 8 holes that exhibited an open from top to bottom. 4 of the holes were unused electrically speaking, but the remaining 4 were active holes that were supposed to go to other places, of which all were connected to the proper place by at least one of the pads (either top or bottom (but not both)), but at least one of the holes did occur in the middle of a net connection which did in fact cause the net to be broken in the middle. This was enough to reject the board for failure to exhibit the same continuity as the other 2 boards that it was checked against for the Mil Certification. =20 I started asking questions of the Florida supplier and I finally came up with what I believed to be the answer, and when I explained it to the guys in Florida, they concurred with my evaluation, and although they said they themselves would section the boards, they never got back to me with any contradictory findings. =20 The supplier in Florida took every precaution and was very careful every step of the way, and in fact had produced perfect boards (with the exception of the Test Coupons), right up to the very last step, which was the only uncontrolled step in their entire process. =20 After they had gone down the street to get the boards Mil Certified for Continuity at another vendor, they gave them to their "touch up girl" to do a very small amount of touch up of scratches and voids in the solder mask before shipping. When she was finished with her touch up, she put the boards into her uncontrolled oven which she only used to cure the "touch up jobs". =20 Well, my take on it was that the oven was hotter than it should have been, and that the boards expanded very rapidly, and also expanded by a large amount, such that every single small hole in the board had its plated thru wall stretched so far that many of the walls actually broke apart, some with a clean break, and some with a jagged break, and some, probably most, just stretched. =20 Next in the process, the boards were taken out of the oven and simply allowed to cool by themselves in a rack. This is when the stretched and broken hole and via walls now stood up in protest, and simply would not return to their original dimensions. I believe that a major part of this was due to the fact that when the holes with jagged breaks in their walls tried to contract, the 2 halves of the barrel just mashed into each other, which, among other things produced the little "black flakes" that I saw in many of the holes, which were actually broken pieces of the plated wall of the hole. The reason that most of them looked "black" is that I was seeing the outer side of the hole wall.=20 =20 As it turned out, the 8 discontinuities that I found in the one board that I tested, all exhibited exceptionally clean walls in the hole, and I concluded that these 8 holes broke so cleanly that when the board material in adjacent holes around them failed to return to the original dimension, these 8 hole walls simply did not re-engage their counterparts, and hence showed up as an open to the ohmmeter. =20 While I am sure that there are some additional factors which lead to this catastrophic damage to the board besides the massive thermal shock and massive expansion of the board, I could only put my finger on one in particular that I believe contributed to the problem. I believe that a primary contributor was the "reduced reproducibility" ratio of the .238" board thickness to the .039" dia hole used for the connectors, which I am sure produced a very thin wall (barrel) in the middle of the hole, and while I know that 039" is not a very small hole, it is comparable to a .010" hole in a .060 board of today. =20 I believe that my experience as described above will account for the "raised vias" in the pictures on the website, which I believe were caused by thermal expansion of the PC Board at some point in the final manufacturing process, where the holes and vias were "stretched" so far out of shape (dimensionally) that they refused to return to their original "pre-expansion dimension". =20 I would stress that I do not believe that the hole walls would have to be stretched to the point of breakage as did happen in the case I described above, so there may be no evidence of the "flakes" that I saw in the holes of the above example. I believe that the holes could stretch without breaking, especially if there was thicker plating than experienced in my example above, and still refuse to return to their original dimension, and therefore leave an otherwise perfect looking wall behind with no signs of the thermal expansion other than being raised. =20 The one thing that I saw as a big problem in the whole episode as described above that has scared the heck out of me ever since, and which is why I will not allow a test coupon to be separated prior to delivery of the board to me, is the fact that most of this type of damage occurs to the board after all of its primary inspection, you know, the continuity check, the QA inspection, and the visual inspection, since touch up is usually the last thing that happens before it gets sent out the door, and usually it is not even looked at by the person who did the touch up once the board dried, which explains how an otherwise good supplier can ship such a #4(&!\%* product. (pardon my ascii). =20 I am very confident that this explains the "raised vias", and I am sure that when this scenario is taken into account, it will go a long way towards explaining the remaining problems with the boards. =20 JaMi Smith Optical Crossing Inc. =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20 Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 8:19 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Blistering in PCBs =20 Don and Everybody! The pic's are now up! Go to: http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com I gotta say, those are some UGLY boards! -Steve Gregory- Hey Earl Where can I see these photos? Don't see them on Steve's site. Don Vischulis -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Earl Moon Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 6:49 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Blistering in PCBs Vinit, Ok, here we go. Never seen nothin' like these before. Oh well, maybe once when I was a "young gun" process engineer at Xerox. That's another story I'll not bore anyone with now. Concerning the pics, it is obvious there is delam everywhere but maybe the edges. Vinitdelam3's discoloration also is delamination, not solder mask related. Someone else take shots at this and Vinit's supplier. This shop shoundn't exist unless they just lost it all on his boards ONE PING ONLY PLEASE. A pleasure to serve Vinit. Don't often get to see how bad something can be besides a train wreck. MoonMan =20 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:36:17 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Underwater application X-To: Chris Almeras <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cris, NO to 1B31!! The Tg is about 15 degrees C and it is easily softened by hydrocarbons. IB73 is some what better with a Tg around 43 degrees C but it will not with stand exposure to hydrocarbons. The unit will be exposed "external" environmental conditions besides "dirty" water. The build up of these contaminants will pose serious issues when combined with moisture. Either you use Parylene or "seal" the product. Anything else will result in shortened product life. The question is how long is the warranty period for this product??? David A. Douthit Manager LoCan LLC Chris Almeras wrote: > Is there any other environmental issues this assembly faces besides the moisture?(I.E. temperature,vibration, etc....) If there are no other concerns, I would consider an acrylic, possibly Humiseal 1B73 or 1B31. We do have an assembly that is encapsulated with Shin-Etsu KE109E. The customer puts it through a test where it has to work while submerged for a certain amount of time during heavy vibration. It is not a real expensive option, but it is not as cheap as the acrylic option. > > Chris Almeras > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jorge Santana [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 12:06 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Underwater application > > Hi > > We need found out a way to keep the board working in a underwater > environment, there is possibilities of occasional flood inside the box > enclosure and the board has to survive, the water came from rain. > Folks from automotive world " under hood applications" have this > experience since cars are subject to flood also. > > What kind of material is used ? What recommended thickness ? > > We are thinking about RTV Elastomeric Conformal Coating. > It is not necessary to say that the solution should be not expensive and > effective. > > Thanks > Jorge Santana > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:38:45 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Underwater application X-To: [log in to unmask] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jon, Don't fall into the 'trying to save money no matter how much it costs' trap. David a. Douthit Manager LoCan LLC [log in to unmask] wrote: > In a message dated 3/29/2002 12:35:04 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > [log in to unmask] writes: > > << i know, i know...here i go again with parylene. but it will work. >> > > I agree Phil, but he did say cost was a factor. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:38:16 -0000 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Underwater application X-To: Jorge Santana <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jorge To my knowledge there is nothing that will do this job long-term. You can try Paralene - Silicone - Acrylics - Urethanes etc., but underwater? Not in my experience. Occasional flood? What about the connector and other uncoated items? And what quality the rain water - acid rain? Better to have a drain hole in the box to let it out, then you can probably successfully use any of the above as you prefer - but keeping in mind the pro's and con's of each. Regards Graham Naisbitt [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Concoat Limited Alasan House, Albany Park Camberley GU16 7PH - UK www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk> Phone: +44 1276 691100 Fax: +44 1276 691227 Mobile: +44 79 6858 2121 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jorge Santana > Sent: 29 March 2002 17:06 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: [TN] Underwater application > > > Hi > > We need found out a way to keep the board working in a underwater > environment, there is possibilities of occasional flood inside the box > enclosure and the board has to survive, the water came from rain. > Folks from automotive world " under hood applications" have this > experience since cars are subject to flood also. > > What kind of material is used ? What recommended thickness ? > > We are thinking about RTV Elastomeric Conformal Coating. > It is not necessary to say that the solution should be not > expensive and > effective. > > Thanks > Jorge Santana > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & > Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or > 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > --------------- > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:07:31 +0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, don_well <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: don_well <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Measuring "No Clean" process quality X-To: Volkmar Huss <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01D2_01C1D7D4.EA07C1A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01D2_01C1D7D4.EA07C1A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgVGVjaG5ldHRlcnMsDQoNCkNhbiBhbnlvbmUgcmVjb21tYW5kIG1lIHNvbWUgdXNlZnVsIHZp c3VhbCBpbnNwZWN0aW9uIGluc3RydW1lbnQgb24gUENCQSdzIEJHQSBjaGVjaz8NCg0KQi5SZWdh cmRzDQpXZWx0b24udy5kb24NCg0K ------=_NextPart_000_01D2_01C1D7D4.EA07C1A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMCBUcmFuc2l0aW9uYWwv L0VOIj4NCjxIVE1MPjxIRUFEPg0KPE1FVEEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj1Db250ZW50LVR5cGUgY29udGVu dD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PWdiMjMxMiI+DQo8TUVUQSBjb250ZW50PSJNU0hUTUwgNS41 MC40ODA3LjIzMDAiIG5hbWU9R0VORVJBVE9SPg0KPFNUWUxFPjwvU1RZTEU+DQo8L0hFQUQ+DQo8 Qk9EWSBiZ0NvbG9yPSNmZmZmZmY+DQo8RElWPjxGT05UIHNpemU9Mj48Rk9OVCBzaXplPTM+SGkg VGVjaG5ldHRlcnMsPEJSPjxCUj5DYW4gYW55b25lJm5ic3A7cmVjb21tYW5kIA0KbWUgc29tZSB1 c2VmdWwgdmlzdWFsIGluc3BlY3Rpb24gaW5zdHJ1bWVudCBvbiBQQ0JBJ3MgQkdBIA0KY2hlY2s/ PEJSPjxCUj5CLlJlZ2FyZHM8QlI+V2VsdG9uLncuZG9uPC9GT05UPjxCUj48L0ZPTlQ+PC9ESVY+ PC9CT0RZPjwvSFRNTD4NCg== ------=_NextPart_000_01D2_01C1D7D4.EA07C1A0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:00:00 -0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: solder paste registration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01C1D7DA.099E5BA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C1D7DA.099E5BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To all, Thanks everyone for the excellent responses pertaining to the solder = paste registration. The company had the stencil sent out for evaluation, and = it was discovered that it was in fact out by as much as .010 in the X = axis(long direction). We have approximately 20-25 "local" fiducials on = the board itself. Anyway, I am off to Minot, ND Monday morning for a follow up. The high = temp there for Monday is a blistering 21 degrees. And to think I just put = planted tomatoes in Atlanta. Also I will be sure to show the engineers the Technet = website. Thanks again, Tony Steinke ----- Original Message -----=20 From: D.Terstegge=20 To: TechNet E-Mail Forum. ; tony steinke=20 Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 10:53 AM Subject: Re: Re: [TN] solder paste registration Perhaps the assembler is using only 2 fiducials on their printer ? = Then the deviation can be partly due to the board, with the remainder = resulting from the fact that a 2 fiducial cannot compensate for rotation = in the machine.=20 Daan Terstegge http://www.smtinfo.net ----- Original Message -----=20 From: tony steinke=20 To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [TN] solder paste registration Hey Folks, The solder paste is being applied with a stencil. Thanks for all the = info. Tony steinke ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum. <[log in to unmask]>; tony steinke <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [TN] solder paste registration > Tony > > You don't say what type of screen is being used. If it's a > nylon/polyester one, then I'd say you're in deep trouble. If it's = a > stainless steel one, it can still stretch as the squeegee distorts = it. > You really should use a stencil. > > Brian > > > tony steinke wrote: > > > > Ladies and Gentlemen, > > > > We are having a major problem with an assembly house with = registering > > the solder paste to surface mount features prior to pick and = place. > > They > > are claiming that the boards are growing/shrinking some 15-20 = mils. > > We have done extensive measuring on unpopulated boards in-house > > and cannot see more than 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel = size > > is approximately 14.00 x 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 = BGA's > > throughout the panel. Overall thickness .080. Is it possible = that the > > mesh > > screen that they are using can expand/contract over time? has = anyone > > heard of this experienced this situation before. Any information = would > > be > > greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Tony Steinke > > AIT-Atlanta = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV = 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following = text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to = [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & = Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for = additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or = 847-509-9700 ext.5315 = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C1D7DA.099E5BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To all,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks everyone for the excellent = responses=20 pertaining to the solder paste</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>registration. The company had the = stencil sent out=20 for evaluation, and it</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>was discovered that it was in fact out = by as much=20 as .010 in the X axis(long direction). We have approximately 20-25 = "local"=20 fiducials on the board itself.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyway, I am off to Minot, ND Monday = morning for a=20 follow up. The high temp</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>there for Monday is a blistering 21 = degrees. And to=20 think I just put planted tomatoes</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>in Atlanta. Also I will be sure to show = the=20 engineers the Technet website.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks again,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tony Steinke</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">D.Terstegge</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">TechNet E-Mail Forum.</A> ; <A=20 [log in to unmask] = href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">tony=20 steinke</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 29, 2002 = 10:53=20 AM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Re: [TN] solder = paste=20 registration</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Perhaps the assembler is using only 2 fiducials on their printer = ? =20 Then the deviation can be partly due to the board, with the remainder=20 resulting from the fact that a 2 fiducial cannot compensate for = rotation in=20 the machine. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Daan Terstegge</DIV> <DIV><A = href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net">http://www.smtinfo.net</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">tony steinke</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 29, 2002 = 9:15=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] solder = paste=20 registration</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Hey Folks,<BR>The solder paste is being applied with = a=20 stencil. Thanks for all the info.<BR>Tony steinke<BR>----- Original = Message=20 -----<BR>From: Brian Ellis <<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>><BR>= To:=20 TechNet E-Mail Forum. <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>>; tony=20 steinke<BR><<A=20 = href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>>= <BR>Sent:=20 Friday, March 29, 2002 9:01 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [TN] solder paste=20 registration<BR><BR><BR>> Tony<BR>><BR>> You don't say what = type of=20 screen is being used. If it's a<BR>> nylon/polyester one, then = I'd say=20 you're in deep trouble. If it's a<BR>> stainless steel one, it = can still=20 stretch as the squeegee distorts it.<BR>> You really should use a = stencil.<BR>><BR>> Brian<BR>><BR>> > tony steinke=20 wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> > Ladies and Gentlemen,<BR>> = ><BR>>=20 > We are having a major problem with an assembly house with=20 registering<BR>> > the solder paste to surface mount features = prior to=20 pick and place.<BR>> > They<BR>> > are claiming that the = boards=20 are growing/shrinking some 15-20 mils.<BR>> > We have done = extensive=20 measuring on unpopulated boards in-house<BR>> > and cannot see = more=20 than 3-5 mils misregistration. The panel size<BR>> > is = approximately=20 14.00 x 16.00 inches, 20-24 mil pitch, and 15 BGA's<BR>> > = throughout=20 the panel. Overall thickness .080. Is it possible that the<BR>> = >=20 mesh<BR>> > screen that they are using can expand/contract = over time?=20 has anyone<BR>> > heard of this experienced this situation = before. Any=20 information would<BR>> > be<BR>> > greatly = appreciated.<BR>>=20 ><BR>> > Thanks<BR>> > Tony Steinke<BR>> >=20 = AIT-Atlanta<BR><BR>------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------<BR>Technet=20 Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV = 1.8d<BR>To=20 unsubscribe, send a message to <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> with following = text=20 in<BR>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet<BR>To = temporarily=20 halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>: SET Technet=20 NOMAIL<BR>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send = e-mail to <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>: SET Technet=20 Digest<BR>Search previous postings at: <A=20 href=3D"http://www.ipc.org">www.ipc.org</A> > On-Line Resources = &=20 Databases > E-mail Archives<BR>Please visit IPC web site <A=20 = href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.= htm</A>=20 for additional<BR>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> or 847-509-9700=20 = ext.5315<BR>-------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C1D7DA.099E5BA0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:22:29 EST Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask] Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Flex circuit design guidelines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jim, Actually, IPC-2223 does not have the design guidelines for a flex circuit for continued flexing; for that you need to go to IPC-D-330, Section 6.2.1.2 "Flexibility Considerations in the Design of Flexible Printed Wiring." Also, IPC-TP-652 and IPC-TR-484 would be good references. Factors that need to be considered are bend radius, distance from neutral plane, ductility, tensile strength, modulus of elasticity. Werner Engelmaier --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:51:21 -0500 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Bogert <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Bogert <[log in to unmask]> Subject: White residue on LPI Solder Mask coated (and incompletely cured) PWAs, Is it a technical concern? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0165_01C1D813.809967C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0165_01C1D813.809967C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 3/30/002 Folks, we have an OEM who purchased FR-4 printed wiring boards from a = MIL-P-55110 qualified board manufacturer. The OEM wave soldered the = PWAs using HF1189A water washable, organic flux and cleaned the = assemblies using DI water in an in-line cleaning process. Subsequent = Omegameter 600 ionic cleanliness testing passed. However, almost all of = the solder side of the PWAs exhibited white residue. Basically it looks = like a water mark. While you can remove the residue using abrasion, such = as by a pencil erasure, it comes back, even after several subsequent = baking operatioins and additional in-line cleaning. The OEM sent out = samples for outside chemical evaluation and found minute traces of = carbon. The OEM traced the problem to incomplete curing of the LPI = solder mask. The white residue only appears on the solder side of the = PWA. There is no evidence of the residue on the component side of the = assembly. The OEM proposes that a sample assembly be sent out for SIR testing, and = that if the test passes, they will request us to accept the condition as = is. My concern is that over time in a humid environment, we may = experience leakage current paths that cound cause operasting failures. = The OEM has 20 PWAs that are part of the lot. However, only 6 = experience this condition. It appears that I should reject all PWAs = that show evidence of the white residue. I am concerned with the = presence of carbon, even in trace amounts. The OEM noted that almost = everything will show traces of carbon, so not to worry. Bottom line is, is there any technical concern if the white residue is = present? Any input on this topic wo\uld be appreciated.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0165_01C1D813.809967C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3/30/002</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Folks, we have an OEM who purchased = FR-4 printed=20 wiring boards from a MIL-P-55110 qualified board manufacturer. The = OEM=20 wave soldered the PWAs using HF1189A water washable, organic flux = and=20 cleaned the assemblies using DI water in an in-line cleaning = process. =20 Subsequent Omegameter 600 ionic cleanliness testing passed. = However,=20 almost all of the solder side of the PWAs exhibited white residue. = Basically it looks like a water mark. While you can remove the = residue=20 using abrasion, such as by a pencil erasure, it comes back, even = after=20 several subsequent baking operatioins and additional in-line=20 cleaning. The OEM sent out samples for outside chemical = evaluation=20 and found minute traces of carbon. The OEM traced the = problem to=20 incomplete curing of the LPI solder mask. The white residue only = appears=20 on the solder side of the PWA. There is no evidence of the residue = on the=20 component side of the assembly.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The OEM proposes that a sample assembly = be sent out=20 for SIR testing, and that if the test passes, they will request us to = accept the=20 condition as is. My concern is that over time in a humid = environment,=20 we may experience leakage current paths that cound cause operasting = failures. The OEM has 20 PWAs that are part of the lot. = However,=20 only 6 experience this condition. It appears that I should = reject all=20 PWAs that show evidence of the white residue. I am concerned with = the=20 presence of carbon, even in trace amounts. The OEM noted that = almost=20 everything will show traces of carbon, so not to worry.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bottom line is, is there any technical = concern if=20 the white residue is present? Any input on this topic wo\uld be=20 appreciated.</FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0165_01C1D813.809967C0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:01:46 -0700 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: White residue on LPI Solder Mask coated (and incompletelycured)PWAs, Is it a technical concern? X-To: Bogert <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------DFE1D64DE18DFB0B0EA98312" --------------DFE1D64DE18DFB0B0EA98312 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bogart (luv the name!), How long is the warranty period? What sort of liability issues are possible? If you are in "harsh" environments are you conformal coating the boards? Won't the OEM pay for operational/functional testing in simulated environments? There is always a possibility of "leakage" currents and or electrochemical migration. Only operational/functional testing will inform you if the product will work! Are you the one who must "sign off" the release/ok to ship paper work? (Whose neck is in the noose?) David A. Douthit Manager LoCan LLC Bogert wrote: > 3/30/002 Folks, we have an OEM who purchased FR-4 printed wiring > boards from a MIL-P-55110 qualified board manufacturer. The OEM wave > soldered the PWAs using HF1189A water washable, organic flux and > cleaned the assemblies using DI water in an in-line cleaning process. > Subsequent Omegameter 600 ionic cleanliness testing passed. However, > almost all of the solder side of the PWAs exhibited white residue. > Basically it looks like a water mark. While you can remove the residue > using abrasion, such as by a pencil erasure, it comes back, even after > several subsequent baking operatioins and additional in-line > cleaning. The OEM sent out samples for outside chemical evaluation > and found minute traces of carbon. The OEM traced the problem to > incomplete curing of the LPI solder mask. The white residue only > appears on the solder side of the PWA. There is no evidence of the > residue on the component side of the assembly. The OEM proposes that a > sample assembly be sent out for SIR testing, and that if the test > passes, they will request us to accept the condition as is. My > concern is that over time in a humid environment, we may experience > leakage current paths that cound cause operasting failures. The OEM > has 20 PWAs that are part of the lot. However, only 6 experience this > condition. It appears that I should reject all PWAs that show > evidence of the white residue. I am concerned with the presence of > carbon, even in trace amounts. The OEM noted that almost everything > will show traces of carbon, so not to worry. Bottom line is, is there > any technical concern if the white residue is present? Any input on > this topic wo\uld be appreciated. --------------DFE1D64DE18DFB0B0EA98312 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Bogart (luv the name!), <p>How long is the warranty period? <br>What sort of liability issues are possible? <br>If you are in "harsh" environments are you conformal coating the boards? <br>Won't the OEM pay for operational/functional testing in simulated environments? <p>There is always a possibility of "leakage" currents and or electrochemical migration. <br>Only operational/functional testing will inform you if the product will work! <p>Are you the one who must "sign off" the release/ok to ship paper work? <br>(Whose neck is in the noose?) <p>David A. Douthit <br>Manager <br>LoCan LLC <p>Bogert wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>3/30/002</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Folks, we have an OEM who purchased FR-4 printed wiring boards from a MIL-P-55110 qualified board manufacturer. The OEM wave soldered the PWAs using HF1189A water washable, organic flux and cleaned the assemblies using DI water in an in-line cleaning process. Subsequent Omegameter 600 ionic cleanliness testing passed. However, almost all of the solder side of the PWAs exhibited white residue. Basically it looks like a water mark. While you can remove the residue using abrasion, such as by a pencil erasure, it comes back, even after several subsequent baking operatioins and additional in-line cleaning. The OEM sent out samples for outside chemical evaluation and found minute traces of carbon. The OEM traced the problem to incomplete curing of the LPI solder mask. The white residue only appears on the solder side of the PWA. There is no evidence of the residue on the component side of the assembly.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>The OEM proposes that a sample assembly be sent out for SIR testing, and that if the test passes, they will request us to accept the condition as is. My concern is that over time in a humid environment, we may experience leakage current paths that cound cause operasting failures. The OEM has 20 PWAs that are part of the lot. However, only 6 experience this condition. It appears that I should reject all PWAs that show evidence of the white residue. I am concerned with the presence of carbon, even in trace amounts. The OEM noted that almost everything will show traces of carbon, so not to worry.</font></font> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Bottom line is, is there any technical concern if the white residue is present? Any input on this topic wo\uld be appreciated.</font></font></blockquote> </body> </html> --------------DFE1D64DE18DFB0B0EA98312-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:15:11 +0200 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Edward Szpruch <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Edward Szpruch <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Blistering in PCBs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, Really very ugly boards. To my opinion the clue is on the first picture : blisters on = non-drilled area.It mean completly failure of the board. You may call it "blisters".To my opinion this is delamination. For sure reliability of those boards is zero. Cross section of the should show it. If I am right, the list of possible reasons is very long starting from = raw materials , pressing procedures , HASL procedures ending with soldering foults. Edward Edward Szpruch Eltek Ltd P.O.Box 159 ; 49101 Petah Tikva Israel Tel ++972 3 9395050 , Fax ++972 3 9309581 e-mail [log in to unmask] > -----Original Message----- > From: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: =E5 =EE=F8=F5 29 2002 18:19 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Blistering in PCBs >=20 > Don and Everybody! >=20 > The pic's are now up! Go to: http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com >=20 > I gotta say, those are some UGLY boards! >=20 > -Steve Gregory- >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hey Earl > =09 > Where can I see these photos? Don't see them on Steve's site. > =09 > Don Vischulis > =09 > -----Original Message----- > From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Earl Moon > Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 6:49 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: [TN] Blistering in PCBs > =09 > =09 > Vinit, > =09 > Ok, here we go. Never seen nothin' like these before. Oh well, maybe > once > when I was a "young gun" process engineer at Xerox. That's another > story > I'll not bore anyone with now. > =09 > Concerning the pics, it is obvious there is delam everywhere but > maybe the > edges. Vinitdelam3's discoloration also is delamination, not solder > mask > related. > =09 > Someone else take shots at this and Vinit's supplier. This shop > shoundn't > exist unless they just lost it all on his boards ONE PING ONLY > PLEASE. > =09 > A pleasure to serve Vinit. Don't often get to see how bad something > can be > besides a train wreck. > =09 > MoonMan > =09 >=20 >=20 >=20 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:21:17 +0300 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: White residue on LPI Solder Mask coated (and incompletelycured)PWAs, Is it a technical concern? X-To: Bogert <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If this were a hi-rel application, I would be very worried. An improperly cured coating is potentially dangerous and I would want to know more about what would appear to be an astoichiometric chemistry and the free components. The white "residue" is probably a very fine alumina added to the mask to give it the desired rheological properties (and to reduce the cost). It has a refractive index close to that of the mask resin, so is normally invisible. When the mask surface is eroded by solubilisation in water or by evaporation of an unreacted component, a small quantity will be laid bare, becoming visible. If this is the case, the alumina itself is harmless, but unreacted chemicals will always be present. It would seem your board supplier is trying to weasel out of his responsibility for producing faulty goods. Without being certain, I thought that MIL-P-55110 went out of being several years ago. Unfortunately, I was unable to check it as Assist is offline just now. I suggest you check with http://astimage.daps.dla.mil/quicksearch/ to find the current situation. In any case, it was a specification for bare printed circuits, not a qualification procedure for suppliers. IMHO Brian > Bogert wrote: > > 3/30/002 > > Folks, we have an OEM who purchased FR-4 printed wiring boards from a > MIL-P-55110 qualified board manufacturer. The OEM wave soldered > the PWAs using HF1189A water washable, organic flux and cleaned the > assemblies using DI water in an in-line cleaning process. Subsequent > Omegameter 600 ionic cleanliness testing passed. However, almost all > of the solder side of the PWAs exhibited white residue. Basically it > looks like a water mark. While you can remove the residue > using abrasion, such as by a pencil erasure, it comes back, even after > several subsequent baking operatioins and additional in-line > cleaning. The OEM sent out samples for outside chemical evaluation > and found minute traces of carbon. The OEM traced the problem to > incomplete curing of the LPI solder mask. The white residue only > appears on the solder side of the PWA. There is no evidence of the > residue on the component side of the assembly. > > The OEM proposes that a sample assembly be sent out for SIR testing, > and that if the test passes, they will request us to accept the > condition as is. My concern is that over time in a humid environment, > we may experience leakage current paths that cound cause operasting > failures. The OEM has 20 PWAs that are part of the lot. However, > only 6 experience this condition. It appears that I should reject all > PWAs that show evidence of the white residue. I am concerned with the > presence of carbon, even in trace amounts. The OEM noted that almost > everything will show traces of carbon, so not to worry. > > Bottom line is, is there any technical concern if the white residue is > present? Any input on this topic wo\uld be appreciated. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:26:12 +0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, don_well <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: don_well <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Rework RF amplifier boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005E_01C1D95F.43D46CC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C1D95F.43D46CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgRm9sa3MsDQogICBDYW4gYW55b25lIHRlbGwgbWUgIGFueSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBleHBlcmll bmNlIG9mIHNvZnQtYmVhbSBzb2xkZXJpbmcgYW5kIGxhc2VyIHNvbGRlcmluZy4gSSB3YXMgdG9s ZCAgaXQgY291bGQgIGJlIHVzZWQgdG8gcmV3b3JrIGhpZ2ggaGVhdCBjYXBhY2l0eSBib2FyZHMo ZmcgYSBtZXRhbCBjb3JlIG9yIG1ldGFsIGJhc2UgYm9hcmRzKS5XZSBtZXQgYSBiaWcgdHJvdWJs ZSB3aGVuIHdlIHJld29ya2VkICBSRiBhbXBsaWZpZXIgYm9hcmRzLg0KIEFueSBpbnB1dCBvbiB0 aGlzIHRvcGljIHdvdWxkIGJlIGFwcHJlY2lhdGVkLiANCg0KQi5yZWdhcmRzDQo= ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C1D95F.43D46CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCFET0NUWVBFIEhUTUwgUFVCTElDICItLy9XM0MvL0RURCBIVE1MIDQuMCBUcmFuc2l0aW9uYWwv L0VOIj4NCjxIVE1MPjxIRUFEPg0KPE1FVEEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj1Db250ZW50LVR5cGUgY29udGVu dD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PWdiMjMxMiI+DQo8TUVUQSBjb250ZW50PSJNU0hUTUwgNS41 MC40ODA3LjIzMDAiIG5hbWU9R0VORVJBVE9SPg0KPFNUWUxFPjwvU1RZTEU+DQo8L0hFQUQ+DQo8 Qk9EWSBiZ0NvbG9yPSNmZmZmZmY+DQo8RElWPjxGT05UIHNpemU9Mj5IaSA8L0ZPTlQ+PEZPTlQg ZmFjZT1BcmlhbCBzaXplPTI+Rm9sa3MsPC9GT05UPjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj48Rk9OVCBmYWNlPUFy aWFsIHNpemU9Mj4mbmJzcDsmbmJzcDsgQ2FuIGFueW9uZSB0ZWxsIG1lJm5ic3A7IGFueSANCmFw cGxpY2F0aW9uIGV4cGVyaWVuY2UmbmJzcDtvZiBzb2Z0LWJlYW0gc29sZGVyaW5nIGFuZCBsYXNl ciBzb2xkZXJpbmcuIEkgd2FzIA0KdG9sZCZuYnNwOyBpdCBjb3VsZCAmbmJzcDtiZSB1c2VkJm5i c3A7dG8gcmV3b3JrJm5ic3A7aGlnaCBoZWF0IGNhcGFjaXR5IA0KYm9hcmRzKGZnIGEgbWV0YWwg Y29yZSBvciBtZXRhbCBiYXNlIGJvYXJkcykuV2UgbWV0IGEgYmlnIHRyb3VibGUgd2hlbiB3ZSAN CnJld29ya2VkJm5ic3A7IFJGIGFtcGxpZmllciBib2FyZHMuPC9GT05UPjwvRElWPg0KPERJVj4N CjxESVY+PEZPTlQgZmFjZT1BcmlhbCBzaXplPTI+Jm5ic3A7QW55IGlucHV0IG9uIHRoaXMgdG9w aWMgd291bGQgYmUgDQphcHByZWNpYXRlZC48L0ZPTlQ+Jm5ic3A7PC9ESVY+DQo8RElWPjxGT05U IGZhY2U9QXJpYWwgc2l6ZT0yPjwvRk9OVD4mbmJzcDs8L0RJVj4NCjxESVY+PEZPTlQgZmFjZT1B cmlhbCBzaXplPTI+Qi5yZWdhcmRzPC9GT05UPjwvRElWPjwvRElWPjwvQk9EWT48L0hUTUw+DQo= ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C1D95F.43D46CC0-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:57:01 +0800 Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, fullname <[log in to unmask]> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> From: fullname <[log in to unmask]> Organization: DSO National Laboratories Subject: Re: MIL-C-28809 Replacement/supersede X-To: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Steve. I have a few questions : 1. What then is classified as "standard" and what is "non-standard"? 2. Who is the Material Review Board (MRB)? 3. Since MIL-C-28809 no longer exist, are we allow to or can we develop an in-house workmanship, making referral to an aboselete standard? Regards - Wee Mei "Sauer, Steven T." wrote: > Hello Wee Mei, > To my knowledge, the information that you are looking for does not exist in > a replacement military specification nor other industry association > documents. > On one hand, the information contained in MIL-C-28809 was considered > requirements for "standard" repair/modification. Repair and modifications > that did not fall within these requirements, "non-standard", were turned > over to a Material Review Board (MRB) and dependent on contractual > requirements may have included customer review and approval/disapproval. > With today's technology and the ever changing end use environments, > "standard" repairs should be reviewed by a MRB for issues related to > quality, performance, reliability and maintainability of the deliverable > product. The guidance information contained in MIL-C-28809 can be used to > develop criteria for use by a MRB or better yet, used to develop an in-house > procedure for standard repairs that defines specifics for your products. > IPC-7721 (supercedes IPC-R-700) is widely accepted and used for repair and > modification of electronic assemblies, but it does not contain "maximum > allowable" criteria. > > Steve Sauer > > -----Original Message----- > From: fullname [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Understand that MIL-C-28809 has been cancelled. However, there are two > tables indicates in this mil-spec on the max. number allowed permitted > for plated-thorugh hole repair and circuit repair. Can someone point to > me where else can I find similar tables for repair under IPC standards? > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives > Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------