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Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 20:50:26 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA Rework Using Paste vs. No Paste
X-To: "PHC L.L." <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On controlling the amount of flux:
* A paint brush scheme or a little dab'ldoya are a bit too flakey
* BIG timers have these fancy flux depth controller machines that squirt
flux onto a plate. It has a wiper that goes around in circles [driven by a
motor under the plate and its shaft poking perpendicularly through the
plate ]. But then again, this is a production process thing, not a rework
thing.
* We use a credit card with a portion of the edge cut away to leave a tooth
on each end. We drag it through the paste to level it out, before dipping
the component.
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----
From: "PHC L.L." <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [TN] BGA Rework Using Paste vs. No Paste
> By the way... How much flux do you apply for this
> no-paste BGA rework? How do you control the volume of
> the flux? Any particular tools?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
> >It's a matter of useful information, not raw
> data(BS). I'll show you mine
> if you'll show me yours.
>
> Seems like most folks have shown their all and it
> appears in favor of less
> is more but as Daan said, more only is 10%. What's
> IPC's take on all this.
> What standard/rule/data/info is right. Most all of
> industry, as exemplified
> on this forum, points to paste flux, for rework
> instead of solder paste,
> whether applied crudely, rudely, or with MoonMan's
> flare for exactomundo by
> microstenciling the stuff.
>
> The MoonMan's and Werner's take to all this is flux
> it. It's still too
> simple to flux up but where are the standards?
>
> Thanks Dave for putting it all into perspective, or
> not.
>
> MoonMan
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 13:04:22 +1100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Sklenar Vit (RBAU-EB/MGE4)" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Sklenar Vit (RBAU-EB/MGE4)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Proving the reliability of a solder joint
X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Where did you get the CD? Please advise.
Regards
Vit Sklenar MGE4VS
T: (61 3)9541 7734 F: (61 3) 9541 3909
e-mail work: [log in to unmask]
e-mail home: [log in to unmask]
> Robert Bosch (Aust) ,
1555 cnr.Centre and McNaugton Road,
> Clayton , VIC 3169, Australia
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Earl Moon [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 7:53 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Proving the reliability of a solder joint
>
> My company just got a copy on CD. Werner is the chair for the committee.
> Who
> else indeed? Other names read like a who's who or Hall Of Fame.
>
> Can't wait to get into this little baby!
>
> MoonCaveMan
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 21:07:20 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BGA Rework Using Paste vs. No Paste
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_112.c05a1b4.29909858_boundary"
--part1_112.c05a1b4.29909858_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dave my man...you've just illustrated the concept; "Necessity, is the mother
of invention...".
Don't think one will ever find this stuff anywhere. Why there aren't more
people subscribed to this email forum amazes me. Paranoia maybe, or there are
those that think they know it all...who knows?
Thanks Dave!
-Steve Gregory-
> We use a credit card with a portion of the edge cut away to leave a tooth
> on each end. We drag it through the paste to level it out, before dipping
> the component.
>
> Dave Fish
>
--part1_112.c05a1b4.29909858_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Dave my man...you've just illustrated the concept; "Necessity, is the mother of invention...". <BR>
<BR>
Don't think one will ever find this stuff anywhere. Why there aren't more people subscribed to this email forum amazes me. Paranoia maybe, or there are those that think they know it all...who knows?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks Dave!<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">We use a credit card with a portion of the edge cut away to leave a tooth<BR>
on each end. We drag it through the paste to level it out, before dipping<BR>
the component.<BR>
<BR>
Dave Fish<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_112.c05a1b4.29909858_boundary--
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Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 19:54:20 -0800
Reply-To: Leo Roos <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Leo Roos <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Covercoat Application Challenge
X-To: Kirk Kosel <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01C1ADB5.BC234B40"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C1ADB5.BC234B40
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kirk:
You might want to contact me off-line (818-505-9929)
Leo Roos
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Kirk Kosel=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 1:45 PM
Subject: [TN] Covercoat Application Challenge
Hi Technetters.
We are looking at applying a single-sided covercoat (solder mask) to a =
12" web. The product is a flexible suspension. Normally not an issue. =
The problem is that this application will occurr after the polyimide =
etch (and plating), which means the web will have holes in it. This =
makes the whole thing much more challenging. Oh yeah, one other thing, =
the line is roll to roll. Thought that I'd throw that in there too. We =
have discussed screen printing, slot die, spray coating, dip coating, =
etc. Has anyone tried this before? I am looking for any ideas people =
have to make this happen. Any possible contacts that you might have =
would really be appreciated also.
Thanks,
Kirk
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C1ADB5.BC234B40
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kirk:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You might want to contact me =
off-line =20
(818-505-9929)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Leo Roos</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Kirk=20
Kosel</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask]
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 04, 2002 =
1:45=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Covercoat =
Application=20
Challenge</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Hi Technetters.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>We are looking at applying a single-sided =
covercoat (solder=20
mask) to a 12" web. The product is a flexible suspension. =
Normally=20
not an issue. The problem is that this application will occurr =
after the=20
polyimide etch (and plating), which means the web will have holes in =
it. =20
This makes the whole thing much more challenging. Oh yeah, one =
other=20
thing, the line is roll to roll. Thought that I'd throw that in =
there=20
too. We have discussed screen printing, slot die, spray coating, =
dip=20
coating, etc. Has anyone tried this before? I am looking =
for any=20
ideas people have to make this happen. Any possible contacts =
that you=20
might have would really be appreciated also.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Kirk</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01C1ADB5.BC234B40--
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:58:21 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: No Technical Content Whatsoever
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Dave
You ignore them! I turned 50 last year and am still goin' strong.......mind
you, it is downhill!
Anyhow, I must say that when I met you in San Diego, I thought you were much
older......
TTFN
Regards Graham Naisbitt
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Concoat Limited
Alasan House, Albany Park
Camberley GU16 7PH - UK
www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
Phone: +44 1276 691100
Fax: +44 1276 691227
Mobile: +44 79 6858 2121
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
> [log in to unmask]
> Sent: 04 February 2002 13:18
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] No Technical Content Whatsoever
>
>
> Good morning all,
>
> Please join with me in welcoming Mr. Dave Hillman to the Geritol
> Generation. He turned 40 this weekend. As I type, *someone* has draped
> his cubicle in black crepe paper, filled it with black balloons, laid a
> tombstone at the opening, you get the idea. I'm *sure* that he would
> appreciate all the obnoxious comments you can send his way <grin>.
>
> Ain't sayin' who.......
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:03:38 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Cathy Killen <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Cathy Killen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Baking Boards
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi,
Is there a procedure on baking boards. Do you bake them after a certain
shelf life or do you automatically bake them? We are finding blow holes
randomly on some boards. The boards are all from the same shipment and same
date codes. If there is a procedure does it cover baking times and
temperatures etc?
Cathy Killen
Training Instructor
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 18:15:24 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Tolerance on padwidth
X-To: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi, Daan,
The old MIL-PRF-55110 permitted a reduction of up to 20% on the minimum
conductor pattern width for etching roughness, pin holes, etc. This is bang
on the 12 mils to 9.6 mils reduction you're uncomfortable with, and I would
be too.
I used a fab house once that ADDED this 20% to the designed width so they
could lose it later in their processing - result was that the conductors
ended up too wide and the spacing between too narrow. Another fab house
managed to reduce some pad widths to half of what they should have been
because of uneven copper plating. All were rejected.
Don't have my IPC spec to hand to see what that says, but I remember it
being much stricter in its requirements.
Peter
"d. terstegge"
<[log in to unmask] To: [log in to unmask]
GROUP.COM> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
Sent by: TechNet Aero/ST Group)
<[log in to unmask]> Subject: [TN] Tolerance on padwidth
02/04/02 06:33 PM
Please respond to
"TechNet E-Mail Forum.";
Please respond to "d.
terstegge"
Hi Technet,
IPC-6012 mentions "when not specified on the master drawing the minimum
conductor width shall be 80% of the the conductor pattern supplied in the
procurement documentation".
This is fine for the tracks, but it may cause problems with the solderpads.
Quite often I see that the 12 mil designed fine-pitch pads have a width of
only 9.6 mil on the actual products, leaving a marginal process window for
assembly.
I can live with 11 mil instead of 12 mil, but 9.6 mil is too small for my
taste. The questions:
1) Is there an additional specification for the etching tolerance of the
solderpads ?
2) If we put additional requirements on the master drawing, what would be
an acceptable value ?
As always I'm very interested to hear your comments,
Daan Terstegge
SMT Centre
Thales Communications
Unclassified mail
Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 14:02:05 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: No Technical Content Whatsoever
X-To: [log in to unmask]
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Werner
Even Viagra no longer works !!! :-)
Brian
[log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> Well Brian,
> To go with current medical developments Dave is joining the Geritol
> Generation and you the Viagra Generation.
>
> Werner
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 14:23:43 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
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Steve
The author is not responsible for the opinions of third party
advertisers :-)
However, remembering that this was published 1 year and 9 months before
the Montreal Protocol was signed, please read 16.1.2.7.2.
In those days, nearly everybody used CFC-113 blends and TMS was one of
the best of the azeotropes for defluxing. If anyone even thought any
different (especially for MIL apps), they would have the whole
establishment dropping down on them like a tonne of bricks (voice of
experience !!!), yet just five years later it was generally admitted
that it was not a good solvent for defluxing and that nearly any of the
non-ozone-depleting processes performed better. That is the price of
progress but illustrates that our industry is ultra-conservative to the
point of stifling progress, at times. Today, we pay too much lip-service
to standards, many of which were written based on data that is up to 50
years old and are totally irrelevant to today's technology - yet they
persist.
Best regards,
Brian
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 08:05:50 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
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Hello Lorraine,
Your PTH is to small
. You have been fortunate so far that the hole may be on the large size. It
would be better for the reliability if the PCB were solder coated; slightly
larger hole compensates for non uniform solder topology. Using an .022 hole
it may not be solder coated (ie ENIG). In this condition the pin edge, one
or two corners being more prevalent are scoring, plowing and fracturing their
way through the hole. In a cross section it is not a pretty sight. I have
done this intentionally in some configurations, it comes down to risk
management. How long is this assembly projected to operate and what happens
if it fails. If this assembly is going through temp cycling it will be
especially exposed to failure.
The issue with the design or designer may be pad size is to small already.
Enlarging the hole size may require a lot of work and this being the flew
season there may be a strain of "fundsarelow" that no one wants to be a
victim of.
Minimally call vendor and request largest hole size possible.
Good luck,
Boston Brad
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:08:45 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask]
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Hello Technetters:
Any thoughts/experience with BGAs attached to finishes other than OSP or
HASL? More specifically, thick or thin gold plating and how it affects
reliability.
Do any of the IPC assembly specs - J-Std-013, IPC-7095, IT-98080, or ???
get into this?
Thanks in advance for your help,
Al Kreplick
Sr. Mfg. Eng.
Teradyne, Inc.
500 Riverpark Drive
North Reading, MA 01864
Tel: 978-370-1726
Fax: 723-661-5352
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:15:11 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
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This discussion brings up a question for me. Our discussion has been =
centered on the fact that the holes are too small in diameter for the =
pin being inserted in the hole. The discussion has suggested that due =
to thermal cycling there may be long term reliability problems with the =
hole plating and possible connections to internal layers.
Isn't is common to have press fit bus connectors of backplane boards =
like the multi layer VME bus boards?
How can this be different?
Won't there be the same thermal cycling issues?
Just a thought.
Phil Nutting
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:47:47 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
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IMHO the difference is the fact that the pins, in the holes that were too
small, were also soldered.
The initial pin insertion puts the holes under stress and the laminate
between the holes under stress. Solder is applied and the laminate systems
are REALLY stressed. Often there are laminate voids and areas of laminate
delamination the entire distance between the holes.
Even boards that are designed to have press fit pins in them react badly when
soldered - and we know that when there is a problem with a wire wrap pin one
of the "cures" is to hit the pin with a soldering iron.
Susan Mansilla
Robisan Lab
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 08:25:02 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: Small Parts washer
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Anyone have any experience with aqueous cleaning of small parts? I have a need to clean "very" small populated pcb's (< .125" ) the problem is removing flux from the installation of a non-hermetic cover. We have tried ultrasonic without success. These parts are processed in small lots 1K or less. We also have a case of "fundsarelow" (I love that :)...)
Dan
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<DIV><FONT size=2>Anyone have any experience with aqueous cleaning of small
parts? I have a need to clean "very" small populated pcb's (< .125" ) the
problem is removing flux from the installation of a non-hermetic cover. We have
tried ultrasonic without success. These parts are processed in small lots 1K or
less. We also have a case of "fundsarelow" (I love that :)...)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Dan</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:46:49 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
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Phil,
Isn't is common to have press fit bus connectors of backplane boards like the multi layer VME bus boards?
YES!
How can this be different?
It's not!
Won't there be the same thermal cycling issues?
Yes! Plus vibration and laminant damage around the immeadiate area!
Just don't use this for high reliability electronics unless you have a very good lawyer!
David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
Phil Nutting wrote:
> This discussion brings up a question for me. Our discussion has been centered on the fact that the holes are too small in diameter for the pin being inserted in the hole. The discussion has suggested that due to thermal cycling there may be long term reliability problems with the hole plating and possible connections to internal layers.
>
> Isn't is common to have press fit bus connectors of backplane boards like the multi layer VME bus boards?
>
> How can this be different?
>
> Won't there be the same thermal cycling issues?
>
> Just a thought.
> Phil Nutting
>
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Phil,<i></i>
<p><i>Isn't is common to have press fit bus connectors of backplane boards
like the multi layer VME bus boards?</i>
<br>YES!<i></i>
<p><i>How can this be different?</i>
<br>It's not!
<p><i>Won't there be the same thermal cycling issues?</i>
<br>Yes! Plus vibration and laminant damage around the immeadiate area!
<p>Just don't use this for high reliability electronics unless you have
a very good lawyer!
<p>David A. Douthit
<br>Manager
<br>LoCan LLC
<br>
<p>Phil Nutting wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>This discussion brings up a question for me.
Our discussion has been centered on the fact that the holes are too small
in diameter for the pin being inserted in the hole. The discussion
has suggested that due to thermal cycling there may be long term reliability
problems with the hole plating and possible connections to internal layers.
<p>Isn't is common to have press fit bus connectors of backplane boards
like the multi layer VME bus boards?
<p>How can this be different?
<p>Won't there be the same thermal cycling issues?
<p>Just a thought.
<br>Phil Nutting
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 13:47:42 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
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Hello Al,
The ongoing usage of alternate PCB HASL finish and its relationship of the
BGA is like the first dive into water. It is risky and you proceed
cautiously gathering as much information as possible. After a while you look
back and wonder why did I ever go through the bother of wading in.
The number one reason for "non solder" finish is flatness. This is important
to PBGA's and I believe moreso for the less than 20 mil pitch part having
over 200 leads. I much prefer BGA's.
The surface finish of longest heritage are the OSP and ENIG. Different forms
of OSP have been around for over twenty years lends itself well in "ongoing"
volume mode where repetition is readily predictable. The OSP finish is
quickly depleted during cleaning reflow profile temps and repeating the same.
Once the finish is lessened or removed time becomes critical. Poor
management of time usage and you will have problems. It is damaged by
handling; hold bare boards by edges only.
Electroless Nickel Immersion Gold (ENIG) has been around for well over ten
years. The "Electroless Nickel" portion of the equation is where all the
interest lays. The I-Gold is self limiting (as with all Immersions) and
thickness is realistically non inspectable at 2-8 micro inches (much closer
to 2 than 8). The thickness of nickel is the bone of debate. I like to
categorize my ENIG in three technology groups: 1) RF, 2)Digital FIFO, and 3)
Digital nonFIFO. The IPC ENIG specification being published calls for
120-150 thick Ni (from recall), and I place that with Cat 3. A robust
"bullet proof" finish the Cat 3 ENIG will shelf life forever (over a year
anyway). The issue I have with it is it requires longer duration and higher
temp times especially with BGAs. This reflow profile is easier to handle
with the self professed "Cat 2." The third configuration of RF is relative
to Nickels resistive nature. A thicker build up of Ni will dramatically
increase paracitics of trace transmission. For those traveling in the Cat 1
and Cat 2 classes I like 45 mircoinches thickness. The Ni quality and timing
of I-Gold is critical, you must find a supplier that has a solid history of
delivering quality ENIG, I suggest based on the three Categories. (Be warned
I am the only one that uses the 3 Cat terminology).
Immersion Silver is rapidly growing in usage. It is a wonderful finish
(hence I am a board geek) and as close a plug in replacement to solder as you
will find. Being a self limiting process again the thickness callout is 2-8
mircoinches (it falling near the 3-4 range). Silver is "deposited" directly
on copper and there are no Nickel issues. It is flat and a slight organic
anti-oxide coating that requires gloved, by the sides only handling.
Immersion Tin is basically the same as Silver, although today I get much more
request for Silver than Tin. Tin is great, needs to be handled the same way;
with respectful caution and tends to be a little thicker in the 2-8uIN it is
near the 4-5 end.
My opinion is OSP, ENIG, Silver and Tin are good viable finishes that can be
tailored to your assembly floor. It tends to be a matching ingredient for
pastes, cleaners, fluxes, etc. The good news is there isn't a "bad" one. A
string of commonality is relative to test. The HASL makes for one nice ICT
pin landing pad where the flat hard oxided/tarnished (sometimes raggy
appearance) surfaces are more challenging. Some advocate inclusion of the
ICT test points in the solder stencil. It sounds like a good idea, although
I have no first hand experience doing it.
Well, that's it, my rendition of surface finish and BGAs all in one email....
Boston Brad
781 858 0783
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 14:20:22 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
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Phil,
I disagree that there is a fair comparison of configurations here. There may
be a "coincidental sizing" only by happen chance. I get the feel of the
original question being the "age ole" question of what size round hole for a
square pin. When the diameter is over sized for the corners it is to big
across the flats (especially true for rectangular pins; 55302 connectors for
instance). In the preceding case of a 25 diag in a 22 hole the is a problem.
The problem becomes large when it is not controlled. Press fit connector
technology is very much controlled.
The "oops" configuration uses pin and body shape NOT intended to be press
fit. The PTH diameter can and will fluctuate relative to tolerance. The
installation of connector is anyone's guess.
The press fit connector technology have years of heritage in well engineered
systems configuration. The PWB thickness, drilled hole, plating and finish
are all mandated. The installation of pins and body are to a precise
installation requirement. The pin itself has been engineered with material
and config to ensure reliability.
At the end of the day I would fly on the press fit connector while the other
configuration may work, more importantly it may not.
Boston Brad
781 858 0783
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 13:23:37 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: PCB Question
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I have a few assemblies that a customer had asked me to look at and I =
noticed an oddity around the vias. It looks like there is delamination =
around the vias. Steve was kind enough to post these photo's on his web =
page for all to view. I need to know if this is delamination or just =
haloing. I saw an issue like this a long time ago (15 years ago) and at =
that time we scrapped them because we didn't know what the issue was =
caused by. Some at that time thought the drill bit for that size was =
either pushed to fast through the material causing a slight delanmination =
or the drill bit was dull. =20
I appreciate any assistance or thoughts on the issue. I have already =
suggested that a cross section may have to be completed.
http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com=20
Thanks in advance.
Kathy=20
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<DIV>I have a few assemblies that a customer had asked me to look at and I
noticed an oddity around the vias. It looks like there is delamination
around the vias. Steve was kind enough to post these photo's on his web
page for all to view. I need to know if this is delamination or just
haloing. I saw an issue like this a long time ago (15 years ago) and at that
time we scrapped them because we didn't know what the issue was caused by.
Some at that time thought the drill bit for that size was either pushed to fast
through the material causing a slight delanmination or the drill bit was
dull. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I appreciate any assistance or thoughts on the issue. I have already
suggested that a cross section may have to be completed.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><A
href="http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com">http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com</A>
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks in advance.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 15:22:57 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
tony steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PCB Question
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Kathy,
Although the pictures are a bit difficult to determine, it could be a
classic
case of severe "pink ring". Do all vias top and bottom exhibit this
phenonom,
or is it isolated to one side? How thick is the PCB? As you stated you will
be performing a cross section
which should reveal the truth. Keep us posted.
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:23 AM
Subject: [TN] PCB Question
I have a few assemblies that a customer had asked me to look at and I
noticed an oddity around the vias. It looks like there is delamination
around the vias. Steve was kind enough to post these photo's on his web
page for all to view. I need to know if this is delamination or just
haloing. I saw an issue like this a long time ago (15 years ago) and at that
time we scrapped them because we didn't know what the issue was caused by.
Some at that time thought the drill bit for that size was either pushed to
fast through the material causing a slight delanmination or the drill bit
was dull.
I appreciate any assistance or thoughts on the issue. I have already
suggested that a cross section may have to be completed.
http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com
Thanks in advance.
Kathy
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 15:34:25 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: PCB Question
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Doesn't appear to be pink ring - it looks like a blister within the board.
Have you microsectioned to see where the problem is located. I would send
the
assemblies back to the board supplier and have them microsection and
determine where the problem is located. Or you could do the sectioning.
Or one of the test labs could do the sectioning
It doesn't look like haloing.
Susan Mansilla
Robisan Lab
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Doesn't appear to be pink ring - it looks like a blister within the board. </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Have you microsectioned to see where the problem is located. I would send the<BR>
assemblies back to the board supplier and have them microsection and determine where the problem is located. Or you could do the sectioning. <BR>
Or one of the test labs could do the sectioning<BR>
<BR>
It doesn't look like haloing.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Susan Mansilla<BR>
Robisan Lab</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 14:34:14 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PCB Question
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It is seen on the top side only. The PCB is .062" thick. =20
Kathy=20
Kathy Kuhlow
Quality Manager
BTW, Inc.=20
11551 Eagle Street NW Suite 3
Coon Rapids, MN 55448
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<DIV>It is seen on the top side only. The PCB is .062" thick. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy Kuhlow<BR>Quality Manager<BR>BTW, Inc. <BR>11551 Eagle Street NW
Suite 3<BR>Coon Rapids, MN 55448</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:26:07 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
tony steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PCB Question
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Kathy,
Since it is on one side of the board then yes this would lead me to believe
that it was drill related. Possible incorrect feed/speed that was used for
that
particular hole size or can be related to the entry or backup material that
was
used to drill the boards.
Tony Steinke
----- Original Message -----
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] PCB Question
It is seen on the top side only. The PCB is .062" thick.
Kathy
Kathy Kuhlow
Quality Manager
BTW, Inc.
11551 Eagle Street NW Suite 3
Coon Rapids, MN 55448
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:52:24 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Mary Jane Chism <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mary Jane Chism <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Crystal Lead
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I hope you all can help us with a question I have received from one of our
manufacturing lines. We have a component (a surface mount crystal), which is
on page 40 of the link below. Can you tell us what kind of lead would this
be considered? Is it a flat lead, round lead, etc.
We had an issue with the solder under the lead not completely flowing out to
the end of the toe of the lead. We realize there does not need to be a toe
fillet. However, when we went to look in the IPC-A-610 to see what the
criteria would be for this type of lead, nothing really fits. The product we
are working with is a Class 3 product. There is sufficient solder paste on
this surface mount pad, but due to the design of the component (the leads
bow slightly up making the leads not completely flat on the pad.), the
solder stops halfway under the lead. There is not a heel fillet, since this
lead comes down out of the component and flat out.
Finally I get to the question: Should the solder flow completely out on the
pad and lead to the end of the pad and lead for a Class 3? We would
appreciate any information provided. Thanks.
Mary Jane Chism
http://www.pdixtal.com/pdf/PDICatalog1.pdf
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1AE8F.6541EC20
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML>
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<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>Crystal Lead</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I hope you all can help us with a =
question I have received from one of our manufacturing lines. We have a =
component (a surface mount crystal), which is on page 40 of the link =
below. Can you tell us what kind of lead would this be considered? Is =
it a flat lead, round lead, etc. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">We had an issue with the solder under =
the lead not completely flowing out to the end of the toe of the lead. =
We realize there does not need to be a toe fillet. However, when we =
went to look in the IPC-A-610 to see what the criteria would be for =
this type of lead, nothing really fits. The product we are working with =
is a Class 3 product. There is sufficient solder paste on this surface =
mount pad, but due to the design of the component (the leads bow =
slightly up making the leads not completely flat on the pad.), the =
solder stops halfway under the lead. There is not a heel fillet, since =
this lead comes down out of the component and flat out. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Finally I get to the question: Should =
the solder flow completely out on the pad and lead to the end of the =
pad and lead for a Class 3? We would appreciate any information =
provided. Thanks.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Mary Jane Chism</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF" SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.pdixtal.com/pdf/PDICatalog1.pdf" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.pdixtal.com/pdf/PDICatalog1.pdf</A></FONT>
</P>
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:03:43 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PCB Question
X-To: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
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Kathy,
Certainly looks like a typical case of delamination. Do you know if the
delamination you're seeing is mask lifting off the circuit board, or in the
circuit board base material?
Jeff Ferry
CEO
Circuit Technology Center, Inc.
www.circuittechctr.com
[log in to unmask]
978-374-5000
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathy Kuhlow [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 2:24 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] PCB Question
I have a few assemblies that a customer had asked me to look at and I
noticed an oddity around the vias. It looks like there is delamination
around the vias. Steve was kind enough to post these photo's on his web
page for all to view. I need to know if this is delamination or just
haloing. I saw an issue like this a long time ago (15 years ago) and at that
time we scrapped them because we didn't know what the issue was caused by.
Some at that time thought the drill bit for that size was either pushed to
fast through the material causing a slight delanmination or the drill bit
was dull.
I appreciate any assistance or thoughts on the issue. I have already
suggested that a cross section may have to be completed.
http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com
Thanks in advance.
Kathy
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 14:09:27 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Denis Lefebvre <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Denis Lefebvre <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Connectors and hole diameters
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After all the activity on this thread regarding the pros & cons of
press-fit connectors and their impact on the laminate structure etc, etc...
At the end of the day what we have is an ill-conceived PTH design. Not
knowing the details of this particular connector my assesment is that the
PTH should be about 32-35 mils as opposed to 22. Using a 22 mil hole on a
lead of the described size is just poor design and out of compliance with
IPC recommendations. I expect the designers reluctance to change the PTH
size may be due to a high density pin pitch that does not allow for a
corresponding larger land area. We can only speculate...
Denis Lefebvre, C.I.D.
Senior PCB Designer
Finisar Corporation
1308 Moffett Park Drive
Sunnyvale, CA 94089-1133
http://www.finisar.com
At 02:20 PM 2/5/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Phil,
>
>I disagree that there is a fair comparison of configurations here. There may
>be a "coincidental sizing" only by happen chance. I get the feel of the
>original question being the "age ole" question of what size round hole for a
>square pin. When the diameter is over sized for the corners it is to big
>across the flats (especially true for rectangular pins; 55302 connectors for
>instance). In the preceding case of a 25 diag in a 22 hole the is a problem.
>The problem becomes large when it is not controlled. Press fit connector
>technology is very much controlled.
>
>The "oops" configuration uses pin and body shape NOT intended to be press
>fit. The PTH diameter can and will fluctuate relative to tolerance. The
>installation of connector is anyone's guess.
>
>The press fit connector technology have years of heritage in well engineered
>systems configuration. The PWB thickness, drilled hole, plating and finish
>are all mandated. The installation of pins and body are to a precise
>installation requirement. The pin itself has been engineered with material
>and config to ensure reliability.
>
>At the end of the day I would fly on the press fit connector while the other
>configuration may work, more importantly it may not.
>
>Boston Brad
>781 858 0783
>
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<html>
After all the activity on this thread regarding the pros & cons of
press-fit connectors and their impact on the laminate structure etc,
etc... At the end of the day what we have is an ill-conceived PTH design.
Not knowing the details of this particular connector my assesment is that
the PTH <i>should </i>be about 32-35 mils as opposed to 22. Using a 22
mil hole on a lead of the described size is just poor design and out of
compliance with IPC recommendations. I expect the designers reluctance to
change the PTH size may be due to a high density pin pitch that does not
allow for a corresponding larger land area. We can only
speculate...<br><br>
Denis Lefebvre, C.I.D.<br>
Senior PCB Designer<br>
Finisar Corporation<br>
1308 Moffett Park Drive<br>
Sunnyvale, CA 94089-1133<br>
<a href="http://www.finisar.com/" eudora="autourl">http://www.finisar.com<br><br>
</a>At 02:20 PM 2/5/2002 -0500, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Phil,<br><br>
I disagree that there is a fair comparison of configurations here.
There may<br>
be a "coincidental sizing" only by happen chance. I get
the feel of the<br>
original question being the "age ole" question of what size
round hole for a<br>
square pin. When the diameter is over sized for the corners it is
to big<br>
across the flats (especially true for rectangular pins; 55302 connectors
for<br>
instance). In the preceding case of a 25 diag in a 22 hole the is a
problem.<br>
The problem becomes large when it is not controlled. Press fit
connector<br>
technology is very much controlled.<br><br>
The "oops" configuration uses pin and body shape NOT intended
to be press<br>
fit. The PTH diameter can and will fluctuate relative to
tolerance. The<br>
installation of connector is anyone's guess.<br><br>
The press fit connector technology have years of heritage in well
engineered<br>
systems configuration. The PWB thickness, drilled hole, plating and
finish<br>
are all mandated. The installation of pins and body are to a
precise<br>
installation requirement. The pin itself has been engineered with
material<br>
and config to ensure reliability.<br><br>
At the end of the day I would fly on the press fit connector while the
other<br>
configuration may work, more importantly it may not.<br><br>
Boston Brad<br>
781 858 0783<br><br>
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:21:47 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Crystal Lead
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Well, we use a part just like it from the same mfg. The process they are =
using is making a through hole part a surface mount package by coining the =
leads. Use the coined requirements. Which for CL 3 is 150% of the lead =
diameter or thickness at a minimum. Interesting issue we haven't had any =
leads that have any bend on them. We have been having good results for =
complete wetting. Is it possible that the part is being placed too hard?
I'm off to look at inventory. =20
Kathy=20
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<DIV>Well, we use a part just like it from the same mfg. The process they
are using is making a through hole part a surface mount package by coining the
leads. Use the coined requirements. Which for CL 3 is 150% of the
lead diameter or thickness at a minimum. Interesting issue we haven't had
any leads that have any bend on them. We have been having good results for
complete wetting. Is it possible that the part is being placed too
hard?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm off to look at inventory. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 15:55:58 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
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Technetters,
We've been getting a quality concern issue in some of the boards, it
happens on one of every 20 boards. We think is a component issue, probably
induced during the component fabrication, is this a defect or not? Any
comments?
look at the pictures SMT cap1 and 2 on the web site:
http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com/
Thanks for the comments
Jorge Rodriguez
Process Engineer
Varian Electronics Manufacturing
615 South River Drive
Tempe, AZ 85281
Phone: (480) 968-6790 X 4258
Fax: (480) 829-4000
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 19:01:27 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: PCB Question
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Hi Kathy,
Did a little surfing to see if I could find some images similar to yours.
Didn't find any, but did find some interesting sites that >may< be relevent.
First one is a link about glass compression. This happens when the laminate
is compressed with fast heat-up rates. Said to possibly be a cause for
drilling problems including delamination. Go to:
http://www.arlonmed.com/applications/compres.htm
Next is a link from a manufacturer of entry and back up materials. They make
a backup material called "SlickBack" (pretty catchy name huh?). There's some
good SEM images there of hole wall quality using their material vs standard
materials...
http://www.lcoa.com/pages/slickback_mg.htm
The last link has standard guidelines for feed and speed rates used for
different laminates, hole sizes, stack heights, how many hits a tungsten
carbide bit should take before replacing, etc. Good reference page.
http://www.holders.co.uk/kennametal_overview.htm
As "murphy" always has it, you don't find out about these problems until
AFTER you build the assemblies huh? Same logic always goes for misloaded
components, it's NEVER the 1-per, it's always the 50-per...such is our life
(GRIN)
-Steve Gregory-
> I have a few assemblies that a customer had asked me to look at and I
> noticed an oddity around the vias. It looks like there is delamination
> around the vias. Steve was kind enough to post these photo's on his web
> page for all to view. I need to know if this is delamination or just
> haloing. I saw an issue like this a long time ago (15 years ago) and at
> that time we scrapped them because we didn't know what the issue was caused
> by. Some at that time thought the drill bit for that size was either
> pushed to fast through the material causing a slight delanmination or the
> drill bit was dull.
>
> I appreciate any assistance or thoughts on the issue. I have already
> suggested that a cross section may have to be completed.
>
> http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Kathy
>
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Kathy,<BR>
<BR>
Did a little surfing to see if I could find some images similar to yours. Didn't find any, but did find some interesting sites that >may< be relevent.<BR>
<BR>
First one is a link about glass compression. This happens when the laminate is compressed with fast heat-up rates. Said to possibly be a cause for drilling problems including delamination. Go to:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.arlonmed.com/applications/compres.htm<BR>
<BR>
Next is a link from a manufacturer of entry and back up materials. They make a backup material called "SlickBack" (pretty catchy name huh?). There's some good SEM images there of hole wall quality using their material vs standard materials...<BR>
<BR>
http://www.lcoa.com/pages/slickback_mg.htm<BR>
<BR>
The last link has standard guidelines for feed and speed rates used for different laminates, hole sizes, stack heights, how many hits a tungsten carbide bit should take before replacing, etc. Good reference page.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.holders.co.uk/kennametal_overview.htm<BR>
<BR>
As "murphy" always has it, you don't find out about these problems until AFTER you build the assemblies huh? Same logic always goes for misloaded components, it's NEVER the 1-per, it's always the 50-per...such is our life (GRIN)<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I have a few assemblies that a customer had asked me to look at and I noticed an oddity around the vias. It looks like there is delamination around the vias. Steve was kind enough to post these photo's on his web page for all to view. I need to know if this is delamination or just haloing. I saw an issue like this a long time ago (15 years ago) and at that time we scrapped them because we didn't know what the issue was caused by. Some at that time thought the drill bit for that size was either pushed to fast through the material causing a slight delanmination or the drill bit was dull. <BR>
<BR>
I appreciate any assistance or thoughts on the issue. I have already suggested that a cross section may have to be completed.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com <BR>
<BR>
Thanks in advance.<BR>
<BR>
Kathy <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 08:03:16 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Connectors and hole diameters
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Hmmm!
These press-fit connectors tend to be wire-wrapped and not pressed through
copper plating that interconnects to various layers in the board.
Backplanes also tend to be much thicker and thus more robust, though I'm
stretching a bit here for a counter argument. I guess the point probably is
that the press-through connector holes are designed for that purpose, while
Lorraine's connector holes are not.
Peter
Phil Nutting
<PNutting@KAISERSY To: [log in to unmask]
STEMS.COM> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
Sent by: TechNet Aero/ST Group)
<[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [TN] Connectors and hole
diameters
02/05/02 10:15 PM
Please respond to
"TechNet E-Mail
Forum."; Please
respond to Phil
Nutting
This discussion brings up a question for me. Our discussion has been
centered on the fact that the holes are too small in diameter for the pin
being inserted in the hole. The discussion has suggested that due to
thermal cycling there may be long term reliability problems with the hole
plating and possible connections to internal layers.
Isn't is common to have press fit bus connectors of backplane boards like
the multi layer VME bus boards?
How can this be different?
Won't there be the same thermal cycling issues?
Just a thought.
Phil Nutting
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:10:06 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Crystal Lead
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Kathy,
Where do I find that in the spec? We build a part that looks similar and it
would be nice to know what we should be doing.
Thanks,
Dan
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 08:32:10 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Connectors and hole diameters
X-To: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi, David,
Press fit/wire wrap connectors in military avionics motherboards have been
around since Adam was a boy, and are even in "state of the art" equipment
like the Eurofighter (sorry, 'Typhoon') radar, which underwent very
stringent qualification testing indeed without any failure in that
department. The budget for that project didn't allow much in the way of
legal expenses for motherboard failure claims.
Peter
David Douthit
<[log in to unmask] To: [log in to unmask]
ORG> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
Sent by: Aero/ST Group)
TechNet Subject: Re: [TN] Connectors and hole
<[log in to unmask] diameters
ORG>
02/06/02
01:46 AM
Please
respond to
"TechNet
E-Mail
Forum.";
Please
respond to
David Douthit
Phil,
Isn't is common to have press fit bus connectors of backplane boards like
the multi layer VME bus boards?
YES!
How can this be different?
It's not!
Won't there be the same thermal cycling issues?
Yes! Plus vibration and laminant damage around the immeadiate area!
Just don't use this for high reliability electronics unless you have a very
good lawyer!
David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
Phil Nutting wrote:
This discussion brings up a question for me. Our discussion has been
centered on the fact that the holes are too small in diameter for the
pin being inserted in the hole. The discussion has suggested that due
to thermal cycling there may be long term reliability problems with
the hole plating and possible connections to internal layers.
Isn't is common to have press fit bus connectors of backplane boards
like the multi layer VME bus boards?
How can this be different?
Won't there be the same thermal cycling issues?
Just a thought.
Phil Nutting
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:49:45 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Temporary delay at my web page...
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Hi All!
Just discovered that my web page is temporally blocked because it exceeded
daily bandwidth...it will be reset overnight.
Homestead says they change bandwidth limits for us free guys in order to be
able to support the paying customers (personally I think they're putting some
pressure on me to pay...hey, they're in business to make money just like
anybody else).
If it becomes to be too many interruptions, I may subscribe...they're as
cheap as anybody as far as web page hosting.
I think my bandwidth increased when I changed the music. The "Devil In the
Blue Dress" (Mitch Rider and the Detroit Wheels BTW) music is a wave file
about 900K where as the *.MIDI muzak is down around 50K, so that means that
everytime someone visits, there's a 900K data exchange that the server is
dealing with, and that's what they keep track of...bytes.
So I'll change back to the *.MIDI muzak and see if that helps. This was the
first time I put decent quality background music on the page...gotta have
some sort of tunes when looking at the pictures...hehehe.
But I'll string out the free lunch as long as I can (GRIN)
I was wondering how long it was gonna last...
-Steve Gregory-
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:02:58 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Seth Goodman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGAs on alternative finishes
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Hi Brad,
You mentioned the practice of printing solder paste on ICT test points:
> string of commonality is relative to test. The HASL makes for
> one nice ICT
> pin landing pad where the flat hard oxided/tarnished (sometimes raggy
> appearance) surfaces are more challenging. Some advocate inclusion of the
> ICT test points in the solder stencil. It sounds like a good
> idea, although
> I have no first hand experience doing it.
I have been doing this for the last couple of years on both Immersion Tin
and ENIG boards and the manufacturing folks seem to be happy. Well, at
least they don't curse my name while I'm in the room. My thinking was to
protect the pad from corrosion in general with the ICT benefit as an added
bonus. But I also liked the idea of covering up the tin on Immersion Tin
boards. I know it has been shown not to whisker so this may be a case of
"belt and suspenders", but it makes me a little more comfortable. Even
without the specter of whiskers, all of these alternative flat finishes are
thin and relatively fragile. It's too easy for a small scratch to expose
copper and that's not a good thing. My two cents worth, anyway.
Regards,
Seth Goodman
Goodman Associates, LLC
tel 608.833.9933
fax 608.833.9966
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:32:31 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BGAs on alternative finishes
X-To: [log in to unmask]
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Hi Seth!
The "exposed copper monster" raises it's head again...I'm just asking, is
exposed copper REALLY a bad thing? I've seen many differing opinions...if
it's such a bad thing, how do OSP coated boards survive? How did the Statue
of Liberty survive for 100-years in the elements, acid rain on the east
coast, etc..or the uninsulated telegraph wires strung over the USA?
Just asking; is exposed copper (other than solderable surfaces that were
intended to be plated and didn't because of dewetting or some other reason) a
REAL problem?
I might think that if the assembly were subjected to a corrosive enviroment
it could be a problem, but then the assembly should be protected with a
conformal coating because the tin/lead plating is going to suffer as well.
From my understanding about copper oxidation, copper will oxidise to a
certain point and then stop, the oxidation actually prevents further
oxidation. That's the desirable green patina that one sees on old sculptures.
Am I wrong about this?
-Steve Gregory-
> It's too easy for a small scratch to expose
> copper and that's not a good thing. My two cents worth, anyway.
>
> Regards,
>
> Seth Goodman
> Goodman Associates, LLC
> tel 608.833.9933
> fax 608.833.9966
>
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Seth!<BR>
<BR>
The "exposed copper monster" raises it's head again...I'm just asking, is exposed copper REALLY a bad thing? I've seen many differing opinions...if it's such a bad thing, how do OSP coated boards survive? How did the Statue of Liberty survive for 100-years in the elements, acid rain on the east coast, etc..or the uninsulated telegraph wires strung over the USA?<BR>
<BR>
Just asking; is exposed copper (other than solderable surfaces that were intended to be plated and didn't because of dewetting or some other reason) a REAL problem?<BR>
<BR>
I might think that if the assembly were subjected to a corrosive enviroment it could be a problem, but then the assembly should be protected with a conformal coating because the tin/lead plating is going to suffer as well.<BR>
<BR>
From my understanding about copper oxidation, copper will oxidise to a certain point and then stop, the oxidation actually prevents further oxidation. That's the desirable green patina that one sees on old sculptures. Am I wrong about this?<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It's too easy for a small scratch to expose<BR>
copper and that's not a good thing. My two cents worth, anyway.<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
<BR>
Seth Goodman<BR>
Goodman Associates, LLC<BR>
tel 608.833.9933<BR>
fax 608.833.9966<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:56:16 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
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...JUST SCRATCHING THE SURFACE...
There has been years and years of exposed copper if you factor the edge
traces. They are never solder coated. Same is true for any selective strip
process. The issue of exposed copper being a bad reliability issue comes
from inside the plated through hole. The fear or more appropriately; the
worst case analogy is the weakest point of copper plating is the location of
least plating. This would be the vertical mid point of the hole. Given a
"quasi-uncontrolled" methodology: copper plating (back in the day) and
potential large nodule size; copper oxidization would perpetuate lessening of
elastic limit and induce work hardening then -walaa- add Z axis rotation and
PWB failure. Condense this all down to a simple rule: NO BARE COPPER, and
conjecture upon conjecture has bare copper an ominous foe lurking in the
shadows.
Well, at least that's how I recall the "bare copper" fail safe stories back
when suggesting polyimide was seen as witchcraft.
Boston Brad
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 00:42:26 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Seth Goodman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGAs on alternative finishes
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Hi Steve,
I'm afraid you've got me dead to rights here. After thinking about this, I
can't point to any real problems caused by exposed copper. And I've carried
this idea around for long enough that I don't know how I originally
justified it. In any case, this fear of exposed copper appears to be
outmoded, as IPC-6012, in section 3.5.4.6 allows exposed copper on areas not
to be soldered amounting to 1% of copper area for class 3 and 5% of copper
area on classes 1 and 2. Vertical edges of conductors are allowed to be
exposed, apparently without limit.
So I guess I owe you a debt of thanks for killing off an old dogma of mine.
Maybe we should just say, "That dogma just won't hunt!".
Regards,
Seth Goodman
Goodman Associates, LLC
tel 608.833.9933
fax 608.833.9966
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 9:33 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] BGAs on alternative finishes
Hi Seth!
The "exposed copper monster" raises it's head again...I'm just asking, is
exposed copper REALLY a bad thing? I've seen many differing opinions...if
it's such a bad thing, how do OSP coated boards survive? How did the Statue
of Liberty survive for 100-years in the elements, acid rain on the east
coast, etc..or the uninsulated telegraph wires strung over the USA?
Just asking; is exposed copper (other than solderable surfaces that were
intended to be plated and didn't because of dewetting or some other reason)
a REAL problem?
I might think that if the assembly were subjected to a corrosive
enviroment it could be a problem, but then the assembly should be protected
with a conformal coating because the tin/lead plating is going to suffer as
well.
From my understanding about copper oxidation, copper will oxidise to a
certain point and then stop, the oxidation actually prevents further
oxidation. That's the desirable green patina that one sees on old
sculptures. Am I wrong about this?
-Steve Gregory-
It's too easy for a small scratch to expose
copper and that's not a good thing. My two cents worth, anyway.
Regards,
Seth Goodman
Goodman Associates, LLC
tel 608.833.9933
fax 608.833.9966
------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C1AEA7.25CF0420
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D441581606-06022002>Hi=20
Steve,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D441581606-06022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D441581606-06022002>I'm =
afraid you've=20
got me dead to rights here. After thinking about this, I can't =
point to=20
<EM><STRONG>any</STRONG></EM> real problems caused by exposed =
copper. And=20
I've carried this idea around for long enough that I don't know how I =
originally=20
justified it. In any case, this fear of exposed copper appears to =
be=20
outmoded, as IPC-6012, in section 3.5.4.6 allows exposed copper on areas =
not to=20
be soldered amounting to 1% of copper area for class 3 and 5% of copper =
area on=20
classes 1 and 2. Vertical edges of conductors are allowed to be =
exposed,=20
apparently without limit.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D441581606-06022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D441581606-06022002>So I =
guess I owe you=20
a debt of thanks for killing off an old dogma of mine. Maybe we =
should=20
just say, "That dogma just won't hunt!".</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,<BR><BR>Seth Goodman<BR>Goodman =
Associates,=20
LLC<BR>tel 608.833.9933<BR>fax 608.833.9966<BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of =
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Tuesday, February 05, 2002 9:33 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] BGAs on alternative=20
finishes<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2>Hi=20
Seth!<BR><BR>The "exposed copper monster" raises it's head again...I'm =
just=20
asking, is exposed copper REALLY a bad thing? I've seen many differing =
opinions...if it's such a bad thing, how do OSP coated boards survive? =
How did=20
the Statue of Liberty survive for 100-years in the elements, acid rain =
on the=20
east coast, etc..or the uninsulated telegraph wires strung over the=20
USA?<BR><BR>Just asking; is exposed copper (other than solderable =
surfaces=20
that were intended to be plated and didn't because of dewetting or =
some other=20
reason) a REAL problem?<BR><BR>I might think that if the assembly were =
subjected to a corrosive enviroment it could be a problem, but then =
the=20
assembly should be protected with a conformal coating because the =
tin/lead=20
plating is going to suffer as well.<BR><BR>From my understanding about =
copper=20
oxidation, copper will oxidise to a certain point and then stop, the =
oxidation=20
actually prevents further oxidation. That's the desirable green patina =
that=20
one sees on old sculptures. Am I wrong about this?<BR><BR>-Steve=20
Gregory-<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE">It's too easy for a small scratch to expose<BR>copper =
and that's=20
not a good thing. My two cents worth,=20
anyway.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>Seth Goodman<BR>Goodman Associates,=20
LLC<BR>tel 608.833.9933<BR>fax=20
608.833.9966<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></=
HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0050_01C1AEA7.25CF0420--
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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:04:03 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Lekhanh Dang <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Lekhanh Dang <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Thermal vias
X-To: [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi all,
I am looking for information about thermal via, from design criteria to
application, including manufacturing process. What I got is either not
informative enough, or pretty outdated. Any input is very appreciated.
Thanks,
Le-
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 09:03:22 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Small Parts washer
X-To: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
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Dan
High-energy spraying is the obvious answer but the parts would have to
be firmly jigged to prevent them from shooting about all over the place
and bashing themselves to pieces - unless you wish to shock test them at
the same time :-)
Ultrasonic cleaning with water is a hairy process because the cavitation
occurs preferably around dissolved gas nuclei, rather than on the parts
to be cleaned. In most cases, you need to degas the water.
What type of flux residues are you trying to remove?
The $64,000 question is do you NEED to clean the residues off? If so,
ask yourself why and try to think up a work-around? My biggest question
is water inside your non-hermetic cover???????
Brian
> "Dan R. Johnson" wrote:
>
> Anyone have any experience with aqueous cleaning of small parts? I
> have a need to clean "very" small populated pcb's (< .125" ) the
> problem is removing flux from the installation of a non-hermetic
> cover. We have tried ultrasonic without success. These parts are
> processed in small lots 1K or less. We also have a case of
> "fundsarelow" (I love that :)...)
> Dan
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:22:57 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Thermal vias
X-To: Lekhanh Dang <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Thermal vias are like any other via, except, perhaps a little larger in
diameter. They are drilled and plated in the same way as all other holes.
They are used to (a) conduct heat from components to a copper plane within
the board and (b) to conduct heat from the internal planes to the outside
world (chassis wall, or whatever). They should be solidly connected (i.e.
no thermal relief feature) to the plane being used to sink the heat (either
a specific Thermal Plane or planes, not electrically connected to anything
else on the board, or to a Ground Plane). Check electrical requirements
(like chassis ground loops) before you automatically choose a ground plane
to act as your thermal plane as well.
We use 25 mil diameter holes on a 0.1 inch grid though copper fill areas in
63 mil thick boards. The thermal vias are (only) connect to two thermal
planes inside the board, as near to the surface as possible. To augment the
conductivity a bit, we also fill the thermal vias with silver epoxy, though
the effectiveness of this has been the subject of some debate. It helps us
anyway.
If used under QFP's, CPLD's, etc with large and tight fan-outs to
through-vias, the effectiveness of thermal vias is limited - not much
thermal path through the fan-out for the heat to dissipate through.
If you use blind vias as thermal vias, there is a limit to the aspect ratio
that can be filled, though I successfully pursuaded a fab house that could
fill a 25 mils diameter hole, 7 mils deep without losing the epoxy or
having a poor finish. Makes everything a bit expensive, though.
From the normal manufacturing point of view, there are no real problems -
they're treated like any other hole. Ditto from the design perspective -
the hole itself needs little or no special consideration beyond how big it
should be and how thick to plate it to conduct your heat at the desired
rate. Relative pad sizes need be no different from normal.
Hope this helps a bit.
Peter
Lekhanh Dang
<ledang@CISCO To: [log in to unmask]
.COM> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
Sent by: Aero/ST Group)
TechNet Subject: [TN] Thermal vias
<[log in to unmask]
ORG>
02/06/02
03:04 PM
Please
respond to
"TechNet
E-Mail
Forum.";
Please
respond to
Lekhanh Dang
Hi all,
I am looking for information about thermal via, from design criteria to
application, including manufacturing process. What I got is either not
informative enough, or pretty outdated. Any input is very appreciated.
Thanks,
Le-
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:04:52 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGAs on alternative finishes
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Seth,
Wasn't there two reasons why exposed copper was thought to be a bad thing in
the bad old days? neither of which may be relevant now.
1 If a metal was used as an etch resist and then not reflowed or removed
there might be an overhang of metal at the trace edge which could break off
and cause shorts. I remember this was a problem when gold was used as an
etch resist.
2. Exposed copper at trace edges in a humid or corrosive atmosphere might
lead to dendritic growth between traces, leading to shorts.
With conformal coating and solder masks I guess this isn't a problem
regards
Geoff Layhe
-----Original Message-----
From: Seth Goodman [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 06 February 2002 06:42
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] BGAs on alternative finishes
Hi Steve,
I'm afraid you've got me dead to rights here. After thinking about this, I
can't point to any real problems caused by exposed copper. And I've carried
this idea around for long enough that I don't know how I originally
justified it. In any case, this fear of exposed copper appears to be
outmoded, as IPC-6012, in section 3.5.4.6 allows exposed copper on areas not
to be soldered amounting to 1% of copper area for class 3 and 5% of copper
area on classes 1 and 2. Vertical edges of conductors are allowed to be
exposed, apparently without limit.
So I guess I owe you a debt of thanks for killing off an old dogma of mine.
Maybe we should just say, "That dogma just won't hunt!".
Regards,
Seth Goodman
Goodman Associates, LLC
tel 608.833.9933
fax 608.833.9966
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 9:33 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] BGAs on alternative finishes
Hi Seth!
The "exposed copper monster" raises it's head again...I'm just asking, is
exposed copper REALLY a bad thing? I've seen many differing opinions...if
it's such a bad thing, how do OSP coated boards survive? How did the Statue
of Liberty survive for 100-years in the elements, acid rain on the east
coast, etc..or the uninsulated telegraph wires strung over the USA?
Just asking; is exposed copper (other than solderable surfaces that were
intended to be plated and didn't because of dewetting or some other reason)
a REAL problem?
I might think that if the assembly were subjected to a corrosive enviroment
it could be a problem, but then the assembly should be protected with a
conformal coating because the tin/lead plating is going to suffer as well.
From my understanding about copper oxidation, copper will oxidise to a
certain point and then stop, the oxidation actually prevents further
oxidation. That's the desirable green patina that one sees on old
sculptures. Am I wrong about this?
-Steve Gregory-
It's too easy for a small scratch to expose
copper and that's not a good thing. My two cents worth, anyway.
Regards,
Seth Goodman
Goodman Associates, LLC
tel 608.833.9933
fax 608.833.9966
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=670193710-06022002>Seth,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=670193710-06022002>Wasn't
there two reasons why exposed copper was thought to be a bad thing in the bad
old days? neither of which may be relevant now.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=670193710-06022002>1 If a
metal was used as an etch resist and then not reflowed or removed there might be
an overhang of metal at the trace edge which could break off and cause shorts. I
remember this was a problem when gold was used as an etch
resist.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=670193710-06022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=670193710-06022002>2.
Exposed copper at trace edges in a humid or corrosive atmosphere might lead to
dendritic growth between traces, leading to shorts.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=670193710-06022002>With
conformal coating and solder masks I guess this isn't a problem
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=670193710-06022002>regards</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=670193710-06022002>Geoff
Layhe</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Seth Goodman
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> 06 February 2002
06:42<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] BGAs on
alternative finishes<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=441581606-06022002>Hi
Steve,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=441581606-06022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=441581606-06022002>I'm afraid you've
got me dead to rights here. After thinking about this, I can't point to
<EM><STRONG>any</STRONG></EM> real problems caused by exposed copper.
And I've carried this idea around for long enough that I don't know how I
originally justified it. In any case, this fear of exposed copper
appears to be outmoded, as IPC-6012, in section 3.5.4.6 allows exposed copper
on areas not to be soldered amounting to 1% of copper area for class 3 and 5%
of copper area on classes 1 and 2. Vertical edges of conductors are
allowed to be exposed, apparently without limit.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=441581606-06022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=441581606-06022002>So I guess I owe
you a debt of thanks for killing off an old dogma of mine. Maybe we
should just say, "That dogma just won't hunt!".</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,<BR><BR>Seth Goodman<BR>Goodman
Associates, LLC<BR>tel 608.833.9933<BR>fax 608.833.9966<BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 05, 2002 9:33
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] BGAs on
alternative finishes<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT
size=2>Hi Seth!<BR><BR>The "exposed copper monster" raises it's head
again...I'm just asking, is exposed copper REALLY a bad thing? I've seen
many differing opinions...if it's such a bad thing, how do OSP coated boards
survive? How did the Statue of Liberty survive for 100-years in the
elements, acid rain on the east coast, etc..or the uninsulated telegraph
wires strung over the USA?<BR><BR>Just asking; is exposed copper (other than
solderable surfaces that were intended to be plated and didn't because of
dewetting or some other reason) a REAL problem?<BR><BR>I might think that if
the assembly were subjected to a corrosive enviroment it could be a problem,
but then the assembly should be protected with a conformal coating because
the tin/lead plating is going to suffer as well.<BR><BR>From my
understanding about copper oxidation, copper will oxidise to a certain point
and then stop, the oxidation actually prevents further oxidation. That's the
desirable green patina that one sees on old sculptures. Am I wrong about
this?<BR><BR>-Steve Gregory-<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">It's too easy for a small scratch to expose<BR>copper and
that's not a good thing. My two cents worth,
anyway.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>Seth Goodman<BR>Goodman Associates,
LLC<BR>tel 608.833.9933<BR>fax
608.833.9966<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 17:38:19 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Grant Emandien <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Grant Emandien <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Nitrogen atmosphere reflow soldering: Costs & Benefits
MIME-Version: 1.0
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'netters,
I am presently exploring the cost-benefits of nitrogen atmosphere soldering
in our facility. Opinions and recommendations in literature obtained thusfar
has been broad and varied. Some bemoan costs while others hail defects
reduction. We presently have a nitrogen atmosphere wave soldering facility
and yes, dross reduction leading to better looking joints.
But what have your experiences been and the benefits gained by using
nitrogen for (a) no-clean and (b) water-soluble solder?
What are the limitations and any disadvantages of using nitrogen?
TIA
Grant
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Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender unless expressly stated by the sender to be given on behalf of Tellumat (Pty) Ltd. Tellumat (Pty) Ltd disclaims liability for any unauthorised opinion or representation made by the sender on behalf of Tellumat (Pty) Ltd.
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 09:23:12 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Cap with a termination issue
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> Technetters,
>
> We've been getting a quality concern issue in some of the boards, it
> happens on one of every 20 boards. We think is a component issue, probably
> induced during the component fabrication, is this a defect or not? Any
> comments?
>
> look at the pictures SMT cap1 and 2 on the web site:
> http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com/
>
> Thanks for the comments
>
> Jorge Rodriguez
> Process Engineer
> Varian Electronics Manufacturing
> 615 South River Drive
> Tempe, AZ 85281
> Phone: (480) 968-6790 X 4258
> Fax: (480) 829-4000
> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:02:24 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PCB Question
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Thanks for all of the info. I'm happy we didn't build any of these. =
Another fine product that was sent off shore to save money but now the =
customer gets to pay twice since the Asian company won't take them back =
nor do they acknowledge the issue. Future builds are our deal now though. =
=20
Kathy=20
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<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
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<DIV>Thanks for all of the info. I'm happy we didn't build any of
these. Another fine product that was sent off shore to save money but now
the customer gets to pay twice since the Asian company won't take them back nor
do they acknowledge the issue. Future builds are our deal now
though. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:04:29 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cap with a termination issue
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Looks like a minor component issue. Have you tried to remove the piece? =
Unless this is causing a functional failure I would consider it a process =
indicator and contact the supplier but I won't rework for this. It =
doesn't seem worth the risk of further damage. =20
Kathy=20
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<DIV>Looks like a minor component issue. Have you tried to remove the
piece? Unless this is causing a functional failure I would consider it a
process indicator and contact the supplier but I won't rework for this. It
doesn't seem worth the risk of further damage. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:23:39 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Antonio Souza <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Antonio Souza <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Soldering Process
Please
I need to qualify my Soldering Process( Electronic components ). Could
someone suggest some tests to be performed and some Documents or Standards
for Reference !
Did somebody know anything about Thermal Shock to check the solder
conection?
thanks
Antonio Souza
INPE/Brazil
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 12:41:33 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Nitrogen atmosphere reflow soldering: Costs & Benefits
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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IMHO: not much help with agressive OA fluxes.
opens process windows a bit with no-cleans.
may be important for Lead-Free processing.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Grant Emandien
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 10:38 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Nitrogen atmosphere reflow soldering: Costs & Benefits
>
>
> 'netters,
>
> I am presently exploring the cost-benefits of nitrogen atmosphere
> soldering
> in our facility. Opinions and recommendations in literature
> obtained thusfar
> has been broad and varied. Some bemoan costs while others hail defects
> reduction. We presently have a nitrogen atmosphere wave soldering facility
> and yes, dross reduction leading to better looking joints.
>
> But what have your experiences been and the benefits gained by using
> nitrogen for (a) no-clean and (b) water-soluble solder?
>
> What are the limitations and any disadvantages of using nitrogen?
>
> TIA
> Grant
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> Notice:
>
> The information contained in this e-mail (including any
> attachments) may contain commercially sensitive or confidential
> information which may be legally privileged and is for the sole
> use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not, or believe you
> may not be, the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
> any use, dissemination, copying, review, disclosure or action
> taken in reliance of this e-mail is prohibited and may be
> unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please
> notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete all
> copies of the message.
>
> Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual
> sender unless expressly stated by the sender to be given on
> behalf of Tellumat (Pty) Ltd. Tellumat (Pty) Ltd disclaims
> liability for any unauthorised opinion or representation made by
> the sender on behalf of Tellumat (Pty) Ltd.
>
> No warranty is given by Tellumat (Pty) Ltd that the integrity or
> security of this e-mail (including any attachments) has been
> maintained through transmission, nor that the communication is
> free of virus, interception or interference.
>
> **********************************************************************
>
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 13:17:00 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cap with a termination issue
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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If that is on the parts when they come out of the reel you have a problem.
Why would you expect that it is always on top? Do you have any traces that
run under the caps? Could this violate minimum electrical clearances?
Spooky.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
> [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 11:23 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Cap with a termination issue
>
>
> > Technetters,
> >
> > We've been getting a quality concern issue in some of the
> boards, it
> > happens on one of every 20 boards. We think is a component
> issue, probably
> > induced during the component fabrication, is this a defect or not? Any
> > comments?
> >
> > look at the pictures SMT cap1 and 2 on the web site:
> > http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com/
> >
> > Thanks for the comments
> >
> > Jorge Rodriguez
> > Process Engineer
> > Varian Electronics Manufacturing
> > 615 South River Drive
> > Tempe, AZ 85281
> > Phone: (480) 968-6790 X 4258
> > Fax: (480) 829-4000
> > E-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 12:26:53 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Richard Todd <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Richard Todd <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Nitrogen Reflow
Tech-netters,
We use both ENIG and OSP on 100% SMT products, no-clean, reflow in air.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of converting to a nitrogen
reflow? Are the significant benefits in quality or just in appearance?
What other things would we need to change (i.e. paste chemistry, etc.)
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Rick
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 12:42:57 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Baking Boards
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Cathy! I recommend you investigate the possibility that the plated thru
holes in your boards has breaks/voids in the copper plating - many times
blowholes/pinholes are due to the wave solder process volatilizing trapped
"stuff" in plated thru hole wall breaks. Also remember that baking will
impact the solderability of your pwbs - usually negatively. Good Luck.
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
Cathy Killen <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 02/05/2002 04:03:38 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond
to Cathy Killen <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: [TN] Baking Boards
Hi,
Is there a procedure on baking boards. Do you bake them after a certain
shelf life or do you automatically bake them? We are finding blow holes
randomly on some boards. The boards are all from the same shipment and same
date codes. If there is a procedure does it cover baking times and
temperatures etc?
Cathy Killen
Training Instructor
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 13:31:11 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Kirk Kosel <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kirk Kosel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Nitrogen atmosphere reflow soldering: Costs & Benefits
Mime-Version: 1.0
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With water-soluble lead-free (Sn/Ag and Sn/Ag/Cu) paste, we saw a lot of =
solderballs until we went to nitrogen. It was like night and day.
>>> [log in to unmask] 2/6/02 11:41:33 AM >>>
IMHO: not much help with agressive OA fluxes.
opens process windows a bit with no-cleans.
may be important for Lead-Free processing.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Grant Emandien
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 10:38 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Nitrogen atmosphere reflow soldering: Costs & Benefits
>
>
> 'netters,
>
> I am presently exploring the cost-benefits of nitrogen atmosphere
> soldering
> in our facility. Opinions and recommendations in literature
> obtained thusfar
> has been broad and varied. Some bemoan costs while others hail defects
> reduction. We presently have a nitrogen atmosphere wave soldering =
facility
> and yes, dross reduction leading to better looking joints.
>
> But what have your experiences been and the benefits gained by using
> nitrogen for (a) no-clean and (b) water-soluble solder?
>
> What are the limitations and any disadvantages of using nitrogen?
>
> TIA
> Grant
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> Notice:
>
> The information contained in this e-mail (including any
> attachments) may contain commercially sensitive or confidential
> information which may be legally privileged and is for the sole
> use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not, or believe you
> may not be, the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
> any use, dissemination, copying, review, disclosure or action
> taken in reliance of this e-mail is prohibited and may be
> unlawful. If you have received this message in error, please
> notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete all
> copies of the message.
>
> Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual
> sender unless expressly stated by the sender to be given on
> behalf of Tellumat (Pty) Ltd. Tellumat (Pty) Ltd disclaims
> liability for any unauthorised opinion or representation made by
> the sender on behalf of Tellumat (Pty) Ltd.
>
> No warranty is given by Tellumat (Pty) Ltd that the integrity or
> security of this e-mail (including any attachments) has been
> maintained through transmission, nor that the communication is
> free of virus, interception or interference.
>
> **********************************************************************
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:33:56 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Torque requirement
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello,
Can anyone provide some general guidelines on the
torque requirement for mounting and fastening common
hardware onto FR4 materials with threaded steel
fasteners, lock washers and bolts?
Any table with starting values for common sizes and
screw types would be greatly appreciated.
Rgds,
Peter
__________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 15:02:05 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Hiteshew, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Hiteshew, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Torque requirement
X-To: peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Peter,
That question is essentially unanswerable in this format. The torque
required to keep a fastener in place is a function of the material
properties of the fastening system and the shock and vibration loads that
system will see. You really need to see a mechanical engineering structural
analyst to get the answer you need.
Michael Hiteshew
Lockheed Martin NE&SS Marine Systems
410-682-1259
-----Original Message-----
From: peter lee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 2:34 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Torque requirement
Hello,
Can anyone provide some general guidelines on the
torque requirement for mounting and fastening common
hardware onto FR4 materials with threaded steel
fasteners, lock washers and bolts?
Any table with starting values for common sizes and
screw types would be greatly appreciated.
Rgds,
Peter
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 16:28:23 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Torque requirement
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Michael is right, you need to determine the materials and environment of =
use to make the BEST decision.
For a general starting point we use the following;
2-56 4-6 inlb
4-40 8 inlb
6-32 10 inlb
8-32 20 inlb
10-32 32 inlb
These are GENERIC values that are a starting point for us. We have an =
application where we use a 6-32 square cone screw to hold a device clip =
that requires 15 inlb to work correctly.
Hope this helps you get started.
Phil Nutting
-----Original Message-----
From: Hiteshew, Michael [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 3:02 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Torque requirement
Peter,
That question is essentially unanswerable in this format. The =
torque
required to keep a fastener in place is a function of the material
properties of the fastening system and the shock and vibration loads =
that
system will see. You really need to see a mechanical engineering =
structural
analyst to get the answer you need.
Michael Hiteshew
Lockheed Martin NE&SS Marine Systems
410-682-1259
-----Original Message-----
From: peter lee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 2:34 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Torque requirement
Hello,
Can anyone provide some general guidelines on the
torque requirement for mounting and fastening common
hardware onto FR4 materials with threaded steel
fasteners, lock washers and bolts?
Any table with starting values for common sizes and
screw types would be greatly appreciated.
Rgds,
Peter
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 16:51:17 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Blomberg, Rainer (FL51)" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Blomberg, Rainer (FL51)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Torque requirement
X-To: peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This is what we use for electronic assembly items including PWA =
hardware.
Fasteners are all 300 series stainless steel 18-8 composition. It is =
NOT
intended to cover torquing values for electrical parts such as =
stud-mounted
diodes, EMI filters, or switches.
SCREW SIZE TORQUE TOLERANCE
2-56 32 in. oz. =B14 in. oz.
4-40 5.5 in. lbs. =B1.5 in. lbs.
6-32 10.0 in. lbs. =B11 in. lbs.
8-32 20.0 in. lbs. =B11 in. lbs.
10-32 30 in. lbs. =B12 in. lbs.
=BC-20 75 in. lbs. =B14 in. lbs.
=BC-28 95 in. lbs. =B15 in. lbs.
> Rainer G. Blomberg
> Honeywell -Space Systems Clearwater
Staff Production Engineer
> 13350 US Hwy 19 N MS 802-3
> Clearwater, FL 33764-7290
(727) 539-5534 Phone
(727) 790-8738 Pager
(727) 539-4469 Fax
e-mail: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: peter lee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 2:34 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Torque requirement
Hello,
Can anyone provide some general guidelines on the
torque requirement for mounting and fastening common
hardware onto FR4 materials with threaded steel
fasteners, lock washers and bolts?
Any table with starting values for common sizes and
screw types would be greatly appreciated.
Rgds,
Peter
__________________________________________________
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-----
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 22:53:33 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Nitrogen Reflow
X-To: Richard Todd <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0037_01C1AF61.1AB45940"
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Hi Rick,
A better appearance may seem like nothing more than that. But there is =
actually an additional advantage to the shinier joints: it's easier (and =
thus quicker) to inspect. Just a thought...
Daan Terstegge
http://www.smtinfo.net
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Richard Todd=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 7:26 PM
Subject: [TN] Nitrogen Reflow
Tech-netters,
We use both ENIG and OSP on 100% SMT products, no-clean, reflow in =
air.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of converting to a nitrogen
reflow? Are the significant benefits in quality or just in =
appearance?
What other things would we need to change (i.e. paste chemistry, etc.)
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Rick
=
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hi Rick,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A better appearance may seem like nothing more than that. But=20
there is actually an additional advantage to the shinier =
joints: it's=20
easier (and thus quicker) to inspect. Just a thought...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Daan Terstegge</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net">http://www.smtinfo.net</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Richard =
Todd</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask]
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 06, =
2002 7:26=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Nitrogen =
Reflow</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Tech-netters,<BR><BR>We use both ENIG and OSP on 100% =
SMT=20
products, no-clean, reflow in air.<BR>What are the advantages and=20
disadvantages of converting to a nitrogen<BR>reflow? Are the =
significant=20
benefits in quality or just in appearance?<BR>What other things would =
we need=20
to change (i.e. paste chemistry, etc.)<BR><BR>Any help would be =
greatly=20
=
appreciated.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Rick<BR><BR>--------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------<BR>Technet=20
Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<BR>To=20
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href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.=
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Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 17:26:03 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Nitrogen Reflow
X-To: Richard Todd <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hey Rick,
As you know, the oxidation rate increases as temperature rises. It
certainly can become a benefit to reduce the amount of oxidation as product
complexity increases.
The flux that is within the solder paste is needed to clean (and remove
oxides and other contaminants) from the component lead or ball, the PCB pad,
as well as the solder powder within the solder paste. Typically there is
more than enough flux to clean these 3 areas. BGA's, small pasives, and
fine pitch technology can often benefit from nitrogen use.
BGA's are aided by nitrogen in many cases because the soldering surface area
on a ball is greater than on a typical QFP lead. Also many folks like to
bake the heck out of BGAs when they come in- and often bake them in an
oxygen rich environment- to increase the oxide level on the BGA ball. With
certain problematic BGA's we have found nitrogen levels tend to reduce
voiding (less oxides mean less flux outgassing, and lower chances of
voiding). If you use a slow wetting formula (as found with most no cleans,
you might not have to worry as much about trapping gas).
Often with small paste deposits (such as for 0201 technology), the ratio of
solder brick surface area to volume is quite high, and thus a high
percentage of the solder powder is exposed to the environment- often the
small volume of flux cannot overcome the additional oxides and the solder
powder will not fully wet together. Some fear that the improved
solderability of nitrogen will increase tombstoning. Tombstones are best
prevented by a tight screen print and placement process, so I favor nitrogen
for 0201 assembly.
QFP's that have questionable solderability might cause issues because many
folks reduce the ratio of solder paste per component pad to help eliminate
shorting on .020", .016" and .012" pitch components. Often the reduced
paste/flux volume will inhibit solderability.
I don't recommend nitrogen for everything, but it is nice to have when you
run into a jam with poor quality components or PCB's. Plus as I mentioned,
certain technology can benefit from nitrogen. Heck a shiny joint usually
means better wetting, and thus a better wetting angle that can improve
reliability of the solder joint.
If your OSP product is double sided mixed technology, using nitrogen will
reduce oxide formation on the PCB and give you a fighting chance for topside
solder in a no clean wave solder application.
Nitrogen is great to have if you do your own in shop dentistry (OK, that was
a joke). Good luck.
Steve A
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Todd [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday,February 06,2002 11:27 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Nitrogen Reflow
>
> Tech-netters,
>
> We use both ENIG and OSP on 100% SMT products, no-clean, reflow in air.
> What are the advantages and disadvantages of converting to a nitrogen
> reflow? Are the significant benefits in quality or just in appearance?
> What other things would we need to change (i.e. paste chemistry, etc.)
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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> additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 08:53:25 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cap with a termination issue
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi, Jorge,
Which specs are you working to for your quality standard? That should
determine whether you have a defect or not. You certainly have an anomaly,
though. Can that solder tail be broken off (easily)? It doesn't appear to
be large enough to be causing, or likely to cause, any trouble if it stays
where and how it is. If it breaks off, that's more of a problem, and will
be a defect. What do these components look like before you start to
assembly them onto boards? Any signs of a condition that might attract
solder? Haven't seen anything like this myself, so can't suggest a cause,
but since solder doesn't stick to ceramic, there must be something else on
the chip that permits solder to wet beyond the component's end caps.
More clues would be good - Is it the same component type / part number /
batch number / position on board each time it happens? Are you wave
soldering these?
Peter
Jorge.Rodriguez@VAR
IANINC.COM To: [log in to unmask]
Sent by: TechNet cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
<[log in to unmask]> Aero/ST Group)
Subject: [TN] Cap with a termination issue
02/07/02 12:23 AM
Please respond to
"TechNet E-Mail
Forum."; Please
respond to
Jorge.Rodriguez
> Technetters,
>
> We've been getting a quality concern issue in some of the boards,
it
> happens on one of every 20 boards. We think is a component issue,
probably
> induced during the component fabrication, is this a defect or not? Any
> comments?
>
> look at the pictures SMT cap1 and 2 on the web site:
> http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com/
>
> Thanks for the comments
>
> Jorge Rodriguez
> Process Engineer
> Varian Electronics Manufacturing
> 615 South River Drive
> Tempe, AZ 85281
> Phone: (480) 968-6790 X 4258
> Fax: (480) 829-4000
> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:49:08 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Torque requirement
X-To: peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I would be very interested in any hard figures for this too. In the absence
of such data, I continue to use values that were common in my last company
- here we use mostly #2-56 screws of various lengths as fasteners to FR 4
boards and I tighten these to 1.8+/-0.2 inch pounds. Some slightly larger
I take up to 2.5 inch pounds.
Peter
peter lee
<ppwlee@YAHOO To: [log in to unmask]
.COM> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
Sent by: Aero/ST Group)
TechNet Subject: [TN] Torque requirement
<[log in to unmask]
ORG>
02/07/02
03:33 AM
Please
respond to
"TechNet
E-Mail
Forum.";
Please
respond to
peter lee
Hello,
Can anyone provide some general guidelines on the
torque requirement for mounting and fastening common
hardware onto FR4 materials with threaded steel
fasteners, lock washers and bolts?
Any table with starting values for common sizes and
screw types would be greatly appreciated.
Rgds,
Peter
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:53:00 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Sasha Miladinovic <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Sasha Miladinovic <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: connectors and hole diameters
X-To: "Reid, Lorraine" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Lorraine,
I've had the same problem with the external customer. :)
Look at the connector's data-sheet. You can often find the recommended =
hole
size for the actual connector. If not talk to your vendor and ask them =
to
provide you the document that specifies the recommended hole size. Show=
it
to the designer that is unwilling to change the layout. If there is ano=
ther
hole size specified, the designer should admit that the solution he/she=
choused is wrong in this application. You can also find out what does i=
t
cost (on the year basis) to press the connectors in to the holes instea=
d of
only soldering it. I assume that you are process/production engineer an=
d it
shouldn't be your job to prove for the designer that the solution is
electrically right or wrong. That's his/hers job. :)
He/she should also make the necessary changes if you can achive more
cost-effective manufacturing of the products.
On the other hand if designer is categorical in his/hers decision, the
responsibility for the product being cost-effective to produce and func=
tion
well in the application is not yours.
Go for it. :)))
Sasha Miladinovic
***********************************************************************=
**
Sasha Miladinovic - Production Engineering
Amersham Biosciences, PCB Production, Ume=E5
Tel: +46 (0) 90 150 232
Fax: +46 (0) 90 138 372
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
***********************************************************************=
**
=
=20
"Reid, Lorraine" =
=20
<Lorraine.Reid@TRI To: [log in to unmask] =
=20
VIRIX.COM> cc: =
=20
Sent by: TechNet Subject: [TN] connecto=
rs and hole diameters =20
<[log in to unmask]> =
=20
=
=20
=
=20
2002-02-01 11:45 =
=20
Please respond to =
=20
"TechNet E-Mail =
=20
Forum."; Please =
=20
respond to "Reid, =
=20
Lorraine" =
=20
=
=20
=
=20
Can anyone point me in the direction of any investigations into the
potential for long term failures caused by inserting a thru-hole mounte=
d
connector into holes which are slightly too small to fit?
We have a situation where a connector, with square pins, diagonal
dimension 25 thou, is being inserted into plated holes, finished size 2=
2
thou. The connector is then soldered. The connector pins can be
forced in, but I am concerned about the potential for damage that may
not appear immediately obvious. The board is 4 layer, so obviously
there are connections from the holes to the inner layers. The obvious
solution is to enlarge the holes (not possible for this batch), but the=
designer is unwilling to make changes unless we can prove that there is=
a genuine risk of failure of the interconnects due to forcing the
connector into the board.
Thanks in advance
Lorraine Reid
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:40:16 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Steve Owen <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve Owen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re:
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,Jorge,
Just a line to tell you your not on your own with this problem. We se
similar faults after wave solder. Drop me a line off forum if you want to
discuss this.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 05 February 2002 22:56
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN]
Technetters,
We've been getting a quality concern issue in some of the boards, it
happens on one of every 20 boards. We think is a component issue, probably
induced during the component fabrication, is this a defect or not? Any
comments?
look at the pictures SMT cap1 and 2 on the web site:
http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com/
Thanks for the comments
Jorge Rodriguez
Process Engineer
Varian Electronics Manufacturing
615 South River Drive
Tempe, AZ 85281
Phone: (480) 968-6790 X 4258
Fax: (480) 829-4000
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:18:56 +0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Olivia Mc Dermott <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Olivia Mc Dermott <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Quality Engineer Interviews
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Good Morning All,
We are a sub-contract manufacturer and are currently recruiting for a
quality engineer. We build PCBs in samll to medium volume. We also complete
final assembly incorporating plastics, chassis's, wire and harness
assemblies. Could any-one suggest, or is there a standard questionairre for
interview purposes? If not, and you were recruiting, what type of questions
would you ask and what type of answer would you expect?
Hopefully I'll get some excellent questions to ask during the interview.
Thanks in advance
Olivia Mc Dermott
_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 07:17:10 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Quality Engineer Interviews
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Olivia,
One question that I would ask is:
If you were faced with a decision to ship a product with some quality or
reliability concerns in order to make a very important ship date, what
would you do?
Almost every quality engineer faces this at one point or another. The
answer may let you know if the individual views quality or production
schedules higher.
Doug Pauls
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:22:32 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Conformal coat over Low solids flux
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent this the first time with help as the first word and it got kicked out.
I have searched the archives for info and have not been successful.
Where can I go to find info on the success of putting conf coat over
low-solids fluxes.
Susan Mansilla
Robisan Lab
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:34:27 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quality Engineer Interviews
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
A few more questions:
- how did you learn the business (the best answer would some core
manufacturing courses during his/her university years, enhanced by seminars
during his/her professional years)
- in case of conflict, what is your reference (best answer Technet, second
best answer Klein Wassink or other text books; bad answer "my experience")
Ioan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 8:17 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Quality Engineer Interviews
>
> Olivia,
> One question that I would ask is:
> If you were faced with a decision to ship a product with some quality or
> reliability concerns in order to make a very important ship date, what
> would you do?
>
> Almost every quality engineer faces this at one point or another. The
> answer may let you know if the individual views quality or production
> schedules higher.
>
> Doug Pauls
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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> SET Technet NOMAIL
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> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
> E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 08:29:05 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quality Engineer Interviews
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_9DC0CE24.45244959"
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=_9DC0CE24.45244959
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
Is this QE going to be responsible for specific processes or products in =
specific industries? =20
Some basic QE questions I always enjoyed in interviews are:
1) Have you ever performed a Cp/Cpk analysis? If so what process and what =
was the index you arrived at? If less than 1.33 what did you do to =
improve the process and increase the cpk value? If not, who did you =
perform process improvements, How was a process determined to be in =
control? =20
2) Can you solder? IMHO the more they understand the better they are at =
it. =20
3) Set up hypotetical situations with some issues that you have come =
accross and see if the QE starts down and obtains the same general root =
cause as you did.
4) What is the most important factors in quality?
Other items I have found useful interviewing. These items you just need =
to watch for:
1) Does the interviewee listen carefully and answer the question with =
confidence. The more a person understands a topic the more confident the =
response will be.
2) General attitude. A peson can learn many talents but a good attitude =
is not so easy. I take a good attittude over experience. =20
3) Looks you in the face and general body language is open and honest. =20
Have fun
Kathy=20
--=_9DC0CE24.45244959
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px">
<DIV>Is this QE going to be responsible for specific processes or products in
specific industries? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Some basic QE questions I always enjoyed in interviews are:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1) Have you ever performed a Cp/Cpk analysis? If so what process and
what was the index you arrived at? If less than 1.33 what did you do to
improve the process and increase the cpk value? If not, who did you perform
process improvements, How was a process determined to be in control?
</DIV>
<DIV>2) Can you solder? IMHO the more they understand the better they are
at it. </DIV>
<DIV>3) Set up hypotetical situations with some issues that you have come
accross and see if the QE starts down and obtains the same general root cause as
you did.</DIV>
<DIV>4) What is the most important factors in quality?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Other items I have found useful interviewing. These items you just
need to watch for:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1) Does the interviewee listen carefully and answer the question with
confidence. The more a person understands a topic the more confident the
response will be.</DIV>
<DIV>2) General attitude. A peson can learn many talents but a good
attitude is not so easy. I take a good attittude over
experience. </DIV>
<DIV>3) Looks you in the face and general body language is open and
honest. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Have fun</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
--=_9DC0CE24.45244959--
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 08:50:29 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Nickel Passivation
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_FFA2AC5D.5E3F5242"
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=_FFA2AC5D.5E3F5242
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
What has actually happened to the nickel on a pad when it is passivated? =
Can this nickel also be unpassivated? =20
TIA
Kathy=20
--=_FFA2AC5D.5E3F5242
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style="MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 10pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px">
<DIV>What has actually happened to the nickel on a pad when it is
passivated? Can this nickel also be unpassivated? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>TIA</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
--=_FFA2AC5D.5E3F5242--
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:03:10 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Tom Parkinson - Quality Assurance Manager <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Tom Parkinson - Quality Assurance Manager <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: WinTronics, Inc.
Subject: Solder Preform Source
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Greetings,
I'm trying to locate sources for solder pre-forms. We are installing a
special 4 row header with long pins and cannot get a soldering iron into
the middle rows of pins.
Pin spacing is 2mm. Pins are .5 x .5mm Pads are 1.65mm OD and .81mm
ID.
Any suggestions on sources to get solder doughnuts??
Thanks
Tom Parkinson
WinTronics, Inc.
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:14:36 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: MoonMan operating in an incompetent mode
Folks,
Today I am personificating (huh?) the Peter Principle. I've finally reached
the level of incompetence I, apparently, have aspired to all my life.
Anyway, can one of you folks having received my last DFM/CE checklist, send
me a copy. My current computer lost it or doesn't know it's supposed to have it.
Thans much,
MoonMan
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:24:51 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Solder Preform Source
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try www.alphasolders.com=20
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:45:10 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quality Engineer Interviews
X-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi Doug,
this question just isn=B4t fair ;-) ...although I have to admit that =
this
dilemma happens.
The main function of a quality engineer should be establishing and
maintaining quality by whatever means. I would ask him what his =
preferences
are, inspection and testing or process control and training, what are =
his
measures and methods.
If you think you can go with his strategy things should be fine.
If it=B4s just a matter of that one question you might not need a =
quality
engineer at all.
Wolfgang
... and BTW, it=B4s his task that this question is not asked or less =
asked
isn=B4t it ?!!!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask] =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:17 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Quality Engineer Interviews
>=20
>=20
> Olivia,
> One question that I would ask is:
> If you were faced with a decision to ship a product with some=20
> quality or
> reliability concerns in order to make a very important ship date, =
what
> would you do?
>=20
> Almost every quality engineer faces this at one point or another. =
The
> answer may let you know if the individual views quality or production
> schedules higher.
>=20
> Doug Pauls
>=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using=20
> LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with=20
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> -------------------
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:29:00 +0530
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Prasad An <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi all
Can any one tell me how to measure the Specific Gravity of NO-CLEAN FLUX..
PRASAD
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:48:11 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Bill Decray <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bill Decray <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SCORE
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Hello Fellow Tech-Netters
Does anyone know of a IPC spec that pertains to scoring.
Thanks for your help in advance.
*GOD BLESS AMERICA*
William W. DeCray III
Waytec Electronics Corp
CAD/CAM & Engineering Services Manager
PHONE:(434) 237-6391 ext 115
CELL: (804) 851-6115
FAX: (434) 237-1324
E-mail:<[log in to unmask]>
Web http://www.waytec.com
FTP ftp://ftp.waytec.com
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D220134615-07022002>Hello Fellow =
Tech-Netters</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D220134615-07022002></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D220134615-07022002>Does anyone know of a IPC spec =
that pertains=20
to scoring.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D220134615-07022002>Thanks for your help in=20
advance.</SPAN></DIV>
<P></P><FONT size=3D2>
<P>*GOD BLESS AMERICA*<BR><BR><IMG height=3D45 =
src=3D"cid:220134615@07022002-214d"=20
width=3D80><BR><BR>William W. DeCray III<BR>Waytec Electronics =
Corp<BR>CAD/CAM=20
& Engineering Services Manager<BR>PHONE:(434) 237-6391 ext=20
115<BR>CELL: (804) 851-6115<BR>FAX: (434)=20
237-1324<BR>E-mail:<[log in to unmask]><BR>Web </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.waytec.com/"><FONT =
size=3D2>http://www.waytec.com</FONT></A><FONT=20
size=3D2><BR>FTP </FONT><A href=3D"ftp://ftp.waytec.com/"><FONT=20
size=3D2>ftp://ftp.waytec.com</FONT></A></P>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:00:58 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Conformal coat over Low solids flux
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The only help I can suggest is that
a) do it your risk and peril
b) if you must do it (and to do so is paradoxal, as CC is usually a sign
of hi-rel apps, especially for poor climatic conditions, and LF usually
isn't), then you should qualify that the combination of the flux, your
production process (taking into account all the tolerances, your product
and its intended use under the worst climatic conditions which you would
expect it to encounter, will continue working for your expectations of
its lifetime.
Sorry, can't be more helpful than that, but be careful: what may work
for one person will not necessarily work for another, as you will be
walking a tightrope at least 60 m above some sharp rocks.
Brian
[log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> Sent this the first time with help as the first word and it got kicked out.
>
> I have searched the archives for info and have not been successful.
> Where can I go to find info on the success of putting conf coat over
> low-solids fluxes.
>
> Susan Mansilla
> Robisan Lab
>
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:09:09 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
tony steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: tony steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re:
X-To: Prasad An <[log in to unmask]>
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Prasad,
Use a hydrometer which has a scale for your desired weight of solution
----- Original Message -----
From: Prasad An <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 7:59 AM
Subject: [TN]
> Hi all
>
> Can any one tell me how to measure the Specific Gravity of NO-CLEAN FLUX..
>
>
>
> PRASAD
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:20:16 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Phil Kinner <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Kinner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Conformal coat over Low solids flux
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Any particular flux and conformal coating combo Susan?
We have done some work which showed the choice of resist, flux and
coating were influential in the successful outcome of conformal coating
operations.
We found the results varied quite considerably depending on the
materials choices. Please contact me offline if you think this might be
of interest.
Either way, extensive SIR and thermal cycling/shock testing should be
performed to check the electrochemical reliability of the combination as
well as establishing the impact of the flux residues in reducing the
adhesion of the coating.
Hope of some use,
Best Regards,
Phil Kinner
Chief Chemist
Concoat Ltd
2C Albany Park, Frimley Road,
Camberley, Surrey, GU16 7PH
Tel: +44 (0) 1276 691100
Fax: +44 (0) 1276 691227
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
Sent: 07 February 2002 14:23
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal coat over Low solids flux
Sent this the first time with help as the first word and it got kicked
out.
I have searched the archives for info and have not been successful.
Where can I go to find info on the success of putting conf coat over
low-solids fluxes.
Susan Mansilla
Robisan Lab
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:22:02 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Conformal coat over Low solids flux
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Susan,
As I recall, when EMPF was still in Indy, they did a fairly extensive study
on conformal coat adhesion over LSF residues. I know of two reports they
did
RR0014 Conformal Coat over LSF Residues
RR0015 Low and No VOC coatings Over LSF Residues.
You should be able to get these from EMPF at www.empf.org
Doug Pauls
Rockwell Collins
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:26:29 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Safavi-Bayat Shahed <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Safavi-Bayat Shahed <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quality Engineer Interviews
X-To: "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]>
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Fair?? Sounds like power trip.
Shahed
-----Original Message-----
From: Busko, Wolfgang [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 10:45 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Quality Engineer Interviews
Hi Doug,
this question just isn=B4t fair ;-) ...although I have to admit that =
this
dilemma happens.
The main function of a quality engineer should be establishing and
maintaining quality by whatever means. I would ask him what his =
preferences
are, inspection and testing or process control and training, what are =
his
measures and methods.
If you think you can go with his strategy things should be fine.
If it=B4s just a matter of that one question you might not need a =
quality
engineer at all.
Wolfgang
... and BTW, it=B4s his task that this question is not asked or less =
asked
isn=B4t it ?!!!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask] =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:17 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Quality Engineer Interviews
>=20
>=20
> Olivia,
> One question that I would ask is:
> If you were faced with a decision to ship a product with some=20
> quality or
> reliability concerns in order to make a very important ship date, =
what
> would you do?
>=20
> Almost every quality engineer faces this at one point or another. =
The
> answer may let you know if the individual views quality or production
> schedules higher.
>=20
> Doug Pauls
>=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using=20
> LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with=20
> following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to=20
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> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail=20
> to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources=20
> & Databases > E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm)=20
> for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or=20
> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
>=20
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:40:23 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Wenger, George M." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Wenger, George M." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Solder Preform Source
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tom,
Try Kester Solders. My contact there is Greg Munie (847-699-3601)
Regards,
George
George M. Wenger (908)-546-4531 [log in to unmask]
Celiant Corporation
40 Technology Drive
Warren, New Jersey 07059
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Parkinson - Quality Assurance Manager
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 10:03 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Solder Preform Source
Greetings,
I'm trying to locate sources for solder pre-forms. We are installing a
special 4 row header with long pins and cannot get a soldering iron into
the middle rows of pins.
Pin spacing is 2mm. Pins are .5 x .5mm Pads are 1.65mm OD and .81mm
ID.
Any suggestions on sources to get solder doughnuts??
Thanks
Tom Parkinson
WinTronics, Inc.
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:44:17 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: MoonMan still incompetent but recovering
Thanks to all who responded with my check lists. I now have enough to recover.
MoonMan
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 09:06:18 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Baking MSP components on Tape and Reel
In-Reply-To: <000301c1aff3$59c0b600$4f5187d9@philssexypc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Does anyone have any experience baking out moisture
from MSP components on Tape and Reel?
What is the criteria and guidelines for this process?
(material, oven temp. baking time etc.)
In case if the components cannot be baked on the reel
due to heat sensitive cover tape material, are there
any companies out there that I can outsource this task
(baking/ re-T&R, repacking)?
Rgds,
Peter
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:05:59 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Alain Savard <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Alain Savard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quality Engineer Interviews
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ioan,
The in case of conflict question, I don't quite agree:
1- Is the purchase order or contract,
2- Master engineering drawing,
3- IPC guidelines/specs,
4- TechNet (the info is often more recent then what's in the books, but
often needs to be verified, TechNet is however and good place to get access
to quick references),
5- Books (usually good but slow for searches),
6- The net (Also need to be verified sometimes).
Experience depends on the knowledge level of the individual and is
subjective, therefore not 100% reliable.
Alain Savard
QA - PCB
CAE Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tempea, Ioan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 9:34 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Quality Engineer Interviews
A few more questions:
- how did you learn the business (the best answer would some core
manufacturing courses during his/her university years, enhanced by seminars
during his/her professional years)
- in case of conflict, what is your reference (best answer Technet, second
best answer Klein Wassink or other text books; bad answer "my experience")
Ioan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 8:17 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Quality Engineer Interviews
>
> Olivia,
> One question that I would ask is:
> If you were faced with a decision to ship a product with some quality or
> reliability concerns in order to make a very important ship date, what
> would you do?
>
> Almost every quality engineer faces this at one point or another. The
> answer may let you know if the individual views quality or production
> schedules higher.
>
> Doug Pauls
>
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:11:30 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
[log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Nickel Passivation
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Kathy! Think of any "passivated" metal surface as a surface which has
been intentionally changed or has naturally evolved (e.g. oxidation) into
surface that is nonreactive to a use environment. Two examples: stainless
steel can be passivated by an acid dip process which changes the surface
such that it is will not "rust" for certain use environments and copper
naturally grows an oxide which is passive for many use environments. The
level of passivity of a metal surface is dependent on the use environment
so don't assume a passive surface is immune to everything. Nickel forms a
very thin, coherent oxide which is very nonreactive to many use
environments. A passivated nickel surface doesn't accept additional plating
processes very elegantly and a passivated nickel surface requires pretty
active flux chemistries to allow acceptable solder processes. Most all
passivated metal surfaces can be "unpassivated" but the chemistries to
accomplish a task can be pretty ugly. I have some book references if you
are looking for a more in-depth answer. Hope this helps, good luck.
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 02/07/2002 08:50:29 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond
to Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: [TN] Nickel Passivation
What has actually happened to the nickel on a pad when it is passivated?
Can this nickel also be unpassivated?
TIA
Kathy
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:27:13 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Lou Hart <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Lou Hart <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quality Engineer Interviews
X-To: Olivia Mc Dermott <[log in to unmask]>
Olivia, I'd find out about what QE candidates know about or have done with
statistical process control, designed experiments, continuous sampling
plans, regression analysis, measurement quality (repeatability and
reproducibility). Depending on how much experience you want or how much
money you have to spend, the candidates may not have to be proficient in or
even know about all or even very many of these, but I'd inquire about them.
Lou Hart
-----Original Message-----
From: Olivia Mc Dermott [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:19 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Quality Engineer Interviews
Good Morning All,
We are a sub-contract manufacturer and are currently recruiting for a
quality engineer. We build PCBs in samll to medium volume. We also complete
final assembly incorporating plastics, chassis's, wire and harness
assemblies. Could any-one suggest, or is there a standard questionairre for
interview purposes? If not, and you were recruiting, what type of questions
would you ask and what type of answer would you expect?
Hopefully I'll get some excellent questions to ask during the interview.
Thanks in advance
Olivia Mc Dermott
_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:31:35 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Phil Kinner <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Kinner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re:
X-To: Prasad An <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <C176BFD6AC4AD5119CE80002A5519B02B17A8E@BGLNT005>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Prasad,
Most people use titration of their flux sample against a weak base
solution (eg KOH) and have a chart from their supplier that tells them
how to relate acid number to % solids or amount of thinner to add etc.
Other methods exist, but titration is easy IMHO.
Best Regards,
Phil Kinner
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Prasad An
Sent: 07 February 2002 15:59
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN]
Hi all
Can any one tell me how to measure the Specific Gravity of NO-CLEAN
FLUX..
PRASAD
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:54:08 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re:
X-To: Prasad An <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Prasad,
Specific Gravity is measured at a particular temperature. and is stipulated
as xxx @ xxxdegrees c/f. My hydrometer has a built in scale as well as
temperature scale. If the Temperature is different than that
of what is stipulated, then you will need to have a formula for figuring the
Specific gravity at that temperature, I found this out by
going to the Alpha Metals engineer for the flux that I was using.
Barry.
-----Original Message-----
From: Prasad An [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 8:59 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN]
Hi all
Can any one tell me how to measure the Specific Gravity of NO-CLEAN FLUX..
PRASAD
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:53:39 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Carl Ray <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Carl Ray <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quality Engineer Interviews
X-To: Lou Hart <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Olivia,
I have seen some good response from our tech net buddies. But one thing I have noticed is the lack
of mentioning one of the most important requirements of Engineering. What would that be you may ask? The
ability to communicate.
You may find the most technical and statistically sound person capable for the job, but if no one
else understands binary how much of an impact can this person make on your team or for your company?
Communication skills are very important. Don't get me wrong, no one likes to read yield charts and DOEs
more than I but being able to get the team involved to correct issue will have a greater impact than any
CP/CPK study.
Lou Hart wrote:
> Olivia, I'd find out about what QE candidates know about or have done with
> statistical process control, designed experiments, continuous sampling
> plans, regression analysis, measurement quality (repeatability and
> reproducibility). Depending on how much experience you want or how much
> money you have to spend, the candidates may not have to be proficient in or
> even know about all or even very many of these, but I'd inquire about them.
> Lou Hart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Olivia Mc Dermott [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 5:19 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Quality Engineer Interviews
>
> Good Morning All,
> We are a sub-contract manufacturer and are currently recruiting for a
> quality engineer. We build PCBs in samll to medium volume. We also complete
> final assembly incorporating plastics, chassis's, wire and harness
> assemblies. Could any-one suggest, or is there a standard questionairre for
> interview purposes? If not, and you were recruiting, what type of questions
> would you ask and what type of answer would you expect?
>
> Hopefully I'll get some excellent questions to ask during the interview.
> Thanks in advance
>
> Olivia Mc Dermott
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:07:57 -0800
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ahne Oosterhof <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Nickel Passivation
X-To: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Kathy,
My knowledge of passivation is somewhat limited. I have only seen it used
for stainless steel (steel with typically high nickel content). I also found
a little on how/why it is done:
With austenitic stainless steel, such as the 300 series, once a corrosion
site has started it only gets worse, being continuous and self-catalyzing.
In corrosive environments the growth of the corrosion site will accelerate
rapidly! Thus, proper cleaning and passivation of surfaces prior to use is
essential to achieve maximum resistance to corrosion.
Most companies have used and continue to use methods for cleaning and
"passivating" stainless steel which utilize mineral acids such as nitric
acid and phosphoric acid. Their effect is limited to surface iron, although
in many cases this method redeposits contaminant iron on the surface again.
Nitric acid is known to many times produce pitting corrosion. There are many
problems with long term use of mineral acid applications, especially under
corrosive environments.
Although not really "new", an emerging technology that is proving to be a
vast improvement over the mineral acids is the use of safer organic acids
such as citric acid. These are very effective materials which complex and
remove a variety of metallic ions that would otherwise adversely affect the
corrosion resistance of the stainless steel. These acids are materials that
work in aqueous solutions to tie up metal ions so that they are no longer
effective or able to have a negative impact. After stripping the metal ions
from the surface, the citric acid forms a water soluble complex with a metal
ion. It will not precipitate the metal ions again like the mineral acids are
known to do.
I cannot vouch for the correctness of the claims in this information nor
comparing one method versus another.
In your application I wonder why you would do this to a "pure" nickel
deposit and what it would do to all the other metals that may be nearby.
Have fun,
Ahne.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kathy Kuhlow
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 06:50
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Nickel Passivation
<< File: TEXT.htm >> What has actually happened to the nickel on a pad when
it is passivated? Can this nickel also be unpassivated?
TIA
Kathy
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 13:30:49 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: SNEC Meeting
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MEETING OF THE SOUTHERN NEW ENGLAND CHAPTER
OF THE IPC DESIGNERS COUNCIL
Date: Wednesday, the 20th of February 2002
Where: Connies Restaurant - Derby, Ct.
Time: Networking 6:00pm, Meeting 7:00pm
Topic: Hidden Parameters Behind Full Library Development
This meeting will be the first part of a two part series on Library
development. When we hear the term "library development" the first thing that
comes to mind is making a pad-stack and associating it with the component
outline, schematic symbol, etc. However, library development includes many
issues that are more important. The truth becomes more evident as we apply
higher technology to our products.
The February session will be an exploratory session focusing on the issues
facing full library development. Issues such as part interchangeability,
testing parameters, electronic function or special assembly requirements are
just a few of the issues that need to be met.
We intend to develop a comprehensive list of these issues and share them with
several industry library developers. These developers represent the CAD
community as well as those that might have component libraries for sale.
We will then invite these industry leaders to our April meeting to share how
they address these issues. Hopefully we will have identified the strengths,
weaknesses and/or benefits of building your own, using an industry standard
or purchasing a library.
You are requested to RSVP Vin Stabile by end of business on Tuesday at (203)
225-9056 X4142 or [log in to unmask]
Directions to Connie's Restaurant:
Take Route 84 to Route 8 South.
Take Route 8 to Route 34, towards Derby.
Make a right turn at the SECOND traffic light.
Connies is one block, on the right.
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 19:45:18 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re:
X-To: Prasad An <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi Prasad,
You can measure specific gravity with an areometer. It's a simple device =
that floats on the fluid, although part of it disappears under the fluid =
level. On a marker scale you read exactly how far the areometer is below =
the fluid level, and that tells you what the specific gravity is. =
Suppliers of laboratory equipment should be able to supply you with one. =
But.... it's probably not what you're looking for, because specific =
gravity is not very suitable to measure activity level or solids =
contents of your flux. If that's what you want better ask your flux =
vendor for a specialized flux control kit. These are not based on =
specificic gravity but on chemical activity.
Daan Terstegge
http://www.smtinfo.net
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Prasad An=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 4:59 PM
Subject: [TN]
Hi all
Can any one tell me how to measure the Specific Gravity of NO-CLEAN =
FLUX..
PRASAD
=
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hi Prasad,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You can measure specific gravity with an areometer. It's a simple =
device=20
that floats on the fluid, although part of it disappears under the fluid =
level. On a marker scale you read exactly how far the areometer is =
below=20
the fluid level, and that tells you what the specific gravity =
is. Suppliers=20
of laboratory equipment should be able to supply you with one. </DIV>
<DIV>But.... it's probably not what you're looking for, =
because specific=20
gravity is not very suitable to measure activity level or solids =
contents=20
of your flux. If that's what you want better ask your flux vendor for a=20
specialized flux control kit. These are not based on specificic =
gravity but=20
on chemical activity.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Daan Terstegge</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net">http://www.smtinfo.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask]
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Prasad An</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask]
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 07, =
2002 4:59=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TN]</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hi all<BR><BR>Can any one tell me how to measure the =
Specific=20
Gravity of NO-CLEAN=20
=
FLUX..<BR><BR><BR><BR>PRASAD<BR><BR>-------------------------------------=
--------------------------------------------<BR>Technet=20
Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<BR>To=20
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NOMAIL<BR>To=20
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Digest<BR>Search previous postings at: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ipc.org">www.ipc.org</A> > On-Line Resources =
&=20
Databases > E-mail Archives<BR>Please visit IPC web site (<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.=
htm</A>)=20
for additional<BR>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> or 847-509-9700=20
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 13:47:29 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quality Engineer Interviews
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bonjour Alain,
you have a good point.
The bottom line is that, besides the technical knowledge, the attitude of
the candidate is also to be assessed. The more he will resort to documents
(hard evidence) and the less he would trust his instincts, the better it is.
And I say that because we're talking about a QE, the final authority. For a
process person, the instincts are sometimes desirable, as long as they are
subsequently confirmed through a quality analysis.
Good luck Olivia,
Ioan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alain Savard [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 12:06 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Quality Engineer Interviews
>
> Ioan,
>
> The in case of conflict question, I don't quite agree:
> 1- Is the purchase order or contract,
> 2- Master engineering drawing,
> 3- IPC guidelines/specs,
> 4- TechNet (the info is often more recent then what's in the books, but
> often needs to be verified, TechNet is however and good place to get
> access
> to quick references),
> 5- Books (usually good but slow for searches),
> 6- The net (Also need to be verified sometimes).
>
> Experience depends on the knowledge level of the individual and is
> subjective, therefore not 100% reliable.
>
> Alain Savard
> QA - PCB
> CAE Inc.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tempea, Ioan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 9:34 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Quality Engineer Interviews
>
>
> A few more questions:
>
> - how did you learn the business (the best answer would some core
> manufacturing courses during his/her university years, enhanced by
> seminars
> during his/her professional years)
> - in case of conflict, what is your reference (best answer Technet, second
> best answer Klein Wassink or other text books; bad answer "my experience")
>
> Ioan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 8:17 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [TN] Quality Engineer Interviews
> >
> > Olivia,
> > One question that I would ask is:
> > If you were faced with a decision to ship a product with some quality or
> > reliability concerns in order to make a very important ship date, what
> > would you do?
> >
> > Almost every quality engineer faces this at one point or another. The
> > answer may let you know if the individual views quality or production
> > schedules higher.
> >
> > Doug Pauls
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
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> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
> in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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> > SET Technet NOMAIL
> > To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> > [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
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> >
> > E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> > additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> > ext.5315
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> -----
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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> -----
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 19:49:58 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SCORE
X-To: Bill Decray <[log in to unmask]>
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Hi Bill,
I don't know of any IPC spec for this, but good information (often =
mentioned in this group) about scoring is at =
http://www.accusystemscorp.com/FAQ's%20-%20Index.htm
Daan Terstegge
http://www.smtinfo.net
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Bill Decray=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 4:48 PM
Subject: [TN] SCORE
Hello Fellow Tech-Netters
Does anyone know of a IPC spec that pertains to scoring.
Thanks for your help in advance.
*GOD BLESS AMERICA*
William W. DeCray III
Waytec Electronics Corp
CAD/CAM & Engineering Services Manager
PHONE:(434) 237-6391 ext 115
CELL: (804) 851-6115
FAX: (434) 237-1324
E-mail:<[log in to unmask]>
Web http://www.waytec.com
FTP ftp://ftp.waytec.com
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hi Bill,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't know of any IPC spec for this, but good information (often=20
mentioned in this group) about scoring is at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.accusystemscorp.com/FAQ's%20-%20Index.htm">http://www.=
accusystemscorp.com/FAQ's%20-%20Index.htm</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Daan Terstegge</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net">http://www.smtinfo.net</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Bill =
Decray</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask]
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 07, =
2002 4:48=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TN] SCORE</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D220134615-07022002>Hello Fellow =
Tech-Netters</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D220134615-07022002></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D220134615-07022002>Does anyone know of a IPC spec =
that=20
pertains to scoring.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D220134615-07022002>Thanks for your help in=20
advance.</SPAN></DIV>
<P></P><FONT size=3D2>
<P>*GOD BLESS AMERICA*<BR><BR><IMG height=3D45 =
src=3D"cid:220134615@07022002-214d"=20
width=3D80><BR><BR>William W. DeCray III<BR>Waytec Electronics =
Corp<BR>CAD/CAM=20
& Engineering Services Manager<BR>PHONE:(434) 237-6391 ext=20
115<BR>CELL: (804) 851-6115<BR>FAX: =
(434)=20
237-1324<BR>E-mail:<<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>><BR>Web =
</FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.waytec.com/"><FONT=20
size=3D2>http://www.waytec.com</FONT></A><FONT size=3D2><BR>FTP =
</FONT><A=20
href=3D"ftp://ftp.waytec.com/"><FONT =
size=3D2>ftp://ftp.waytec.com</FONT></A></P>
<DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:25:25 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Francis Sun <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Source for color dye to test BGA solder joints
MIME-Version: 1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<FONT face=3D"Default Sans Serif, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" si=
ze=3D2><FONT face=3D"Default Sans Serif, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se=
rif" size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Default Sans Serif, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, =
sans-serif" size=3D2><DIV>Hello,</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Anyone out ther=
e know when I can get hold of color dye used to test for BGA connectivity?<=
/DIV><DIV>Any help would be appreciated.</DIV><DIV>TIA<BR><BR>Francis =
Sun<BR>MARK IV Industries <BR>(905) 624-3025 ext.&=
nbsp;1235<BR>Fax: (905) 624-4572<BR></DIV></FONT></FONT></FONT>=
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:59:12 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Tolerance on padwidth
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I'm wondering whether this problem is related to the etched trace geometry.
Trace geometry can vary greatly depending on the process used to build the
board and the surface finish. Just take a look at IPC 600 3.2.1 and IPC
2221 Section 10 (Table 10-3). It shows this very well. No matter the
geometry though, the effective width from IPC is the same, the widest part
of the trace. On some boards this can be the top of the trace and on others
it can be the bottom. If the board retains the etch mask, typically
electrolytic nickel/gold, the top will be the widest. But if the etch mask
is stripped any of a variety of surface finishes (HASL, ENIG, ImAg, OSP
etc) are used, the top likely will not be the widest part.
Since SMT uses the top of the pads, it's not too far-fetched to see that a
pad that would have 12 mil top with electrolytic nickel gold but only 10
mils or less with ENIG and BOTH products would meet IPC specs for effective
width. IPC 600 and 2221 even points this out. There's a note in each that
says "The different etch configurations may not meet intended design
requirements."
So what do you do. Make sure you understand how your fabricator builds the
board, the impact of the surface finish on pad geometry and what shape you
need. One question to ask your fabricator is do they treat the outer layer
artwork differently if the board is electrolytic or electroless nickel/gold.
They should because they two surface finishes will yield a very different
trace and pad geometry.
Finally, if the SMT pad width is critical, you can specify that the top of
the pad must meet a specified width regardless of the IPC specified
conductor width.
> ----------
> From: [log in to unmask][SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.;[log in to unmask]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 2:15 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Tolerance on padwidth
>
> Hi, Daan,
>
> The old MIL-PRF-55110 permitted a reduction of up to 20% on the minimum
> conductor pattern width for etching roughness, pin holes, etc. This is
> bang
> on the 12 mils to 9.6 mils reduction you're uncomfortable with, and I
> would
> be too.
>
> I used a fab house once that ADDED this 20% to the designed width so they
> could lose it later in their processing - result was that the conductors
> ended up too wide and the spacing between too narrow. Another fab house
> managed to reduce some pad widths to half of what they should have been
> because of uneven copper plating. All were rejected.
>
> Don't have my IPC spec to hand to see what that says, but I remember it
> being much stricter in its requirements.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
> "d. terstegge"
> <[log in to unmask] To:
> [log in to unmask]
> GROUP.COM> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN
> Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
> Sent by: TechNet Aero/ST Group)
> <[log in to unmask]> Subject: [TN]
> Tolerance on padwidth
>
>
> 02/04/02 06:33 PM
> Please respond to
> "TechNet E-Mail Forum.";
> Please respond to "d.
> terstegge"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Technet,
>
> IPC-6012 mentions "when not specified on the master drawing the minimum
> conductor width shall be 80% of the the conductor pattern supplied in the
> procurement documentation".
> This is fine for the tracks, but it may cause problems with the
> solderpads.
> Quite often I see that the 12 mil designed fine-pitch pads have a width of
> only 9.6 mil on the actual products, leaving a marginal process window for
> assembly.
> I can live with 11 mil instead of 12 mil, but 9.6 mil is too small for my
> taste. The questions:
> 1) Is there an additional specification for the etching tolerance of the
> solderpads ?
> 2) If we put additional requirements on the master drawing, what would
> be
> an acceptable value ?
>
> As always I'm very interested to hear your comments,
>
> Daan Terstegge
> SMT Centre
> Thales Communications
> Unclassified mail
> Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:41:26 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ceramic CSP's and BGA's in general
Kind folks of the IPC TechNet and those not so but well informed concering
the subject issue - for me.
I have gone back and re-read all the articles and papers concerning ceramic
packages, but for CCGA's. I am, as some of you in the past, about the great
CTE mismatch between ceramic, silicon, and MLB's without constraining or
tailoring core materials.
My "frinds" at TI and IBM have been the primary players in this game. TI's
approach to solder balls is using eutectic types - I belive though not
certain in every instance. IBM talks to hard balls (90% lead) instead - in
most cases as I again believe.
I like the hard ball approach because no collapse, of course, is effected
during reflow. Therefore, more hot air is allowed to "circulate" under and
between the balls effecting a better solder joint consistently.
I am hopeful, some of you can shed some light with positive experiences with
the aformentiond parts and their solder joint acceptable initially, and long
term reliability. Realizing we have gone down this pass a few times, I hope
there is some "new" information besides the great stuff the two companies in
question provide.
As a lover of CCGA's, past and present, by IBM, I wish these parts could use
this technology. It works first and always.
Beyond this, I am hoping TI, as a major DSP device supplier, proves its
plastic BGA (super BGA or perimeter BGA - whichever) does the job. It is
said they are packaging four chips in this package style making it lower
cost and certainly more reliable due to the CTE issue.
Any input appreciated,
MoonMan
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:48:04 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Surface Mount <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Surface Mount <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0044_01C1AFEE.D4431D50"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C1AFEE.D4431D50
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
=20
I work for a small PCB Manufacturing plant in Michigan. I am =
somewhat
new to the buisness, and my co-workers have been giving me info about =
solder
paste, but there seems to be some questions about solder paste use
We use Kester R562 solder paste. One of the things they are telling me =
is
mixing new solder paste with old solder paste will rejuvinate the old =
paste.=20
Is this true, or will it just ruin the new paste.
Art Hampton
------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C1AFEE.D4431D50
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<DIV>Hello,<BR> <BR> I work for a small PCB =
Manufacturing=20
plant in Michigan. I am somewhat<BR>new to the buisness, and my =
co-workers have=20
been giving me info about solder<BR>paste, but there seems to be =
some=20
questions about solder paste use<BR>We use Kester R562 solder =
paste. One of=20
the things they are telling me is</DIV>
<DIV> mixing new solder paste with old solder paste will rejuvinate =
the old=20
paste. </DIV>
<DIV> Is this true, or will it just ruin the new paste.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Bookman Old Style" size=3D2>Art=20
Hampton</FONT><BR></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C1AFEE.D4431D50--
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:49:52 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
James TerVeen <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: James TerVeen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: solder pot
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have a small dilemma. We have been pretinning a large number of
component in a couple of solder pots. One of them suddenly started to
give me dewet and nonwet conditions. I removed all the solder from the
pot and replaced it with new solder (by the way the solder is SN62). Sent
the solder from both pots out for analysis and just got the results back.
The difference in the two pots seems to be a .63 higher % level of Pb and a
concentration of In (.00220) % in the bad pot and
>0.0001 in the good pot. All the other elements seem to be pretty much
the same (within .002) accept the Sn which is .03 different. Anybody got
any ideas as to why I was getting the dewet and non wet conditions from the
one solder pot over the other. Also the good solder pot had higher
levels of Cu and Ni.
Thanks
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:11:58 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re:
X-To: Surface Mount <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hey Art,
As you would suspect, adding old paste to new paste is a ratio game. If you
have a half jar of old paste and a half jar of new paste, and you mix them,
then the new mixture is better than the old paste, but not as good as new
paste.
For practical help, the rule of thumb that I prefer is that you should never
put old/used paste into a jar with new/unused paste. When you are done with
the build, or done for the day, the used and unused paste should be kept in
separate containers. At least in my humble opinion.
If you have solder paste on the stencil, and the amount depletes to a level
in which you need to add paste, I have no problem with mixing in new paste.
This will improve the condition of solder paste on the stencil. Perhaps
this is what your coworker is talking about.
Steve A
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Surface Mount [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday,February 07,2002 1:48 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN]
>
> Hello,
>
> I work for a small PCB Manufacturing plant in Michigan. I am somewhat
> new to the buisness, and my co-workers have been giving me info about
> solder
> paste, but there seems to be some questions about solder paste use
> We use Kester R562 solder paste. One of the things they are telling me is
> mixing new solder paste with old solder paste will rejuvinate the old
> paste.
> Is this true, or will it just ruin the new paste.
>
> Art Hampton
>
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:10:52 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Not a new message - trying to answer the solder paste mixing
question
X-To: Arthur Hampton <[log in to unmask]>
Not a good idea under the best of conditions.
MoonMan
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:12:24 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: solder pot
X-To: [log in to unmask]
Maybe it's the parts.
MoonMan
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:21:43 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
James TerVeen <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: James TerVeen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Solder pot
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Forgot to say that we are the manufacturer of Multilayer Chip Capacitors
and we do this operation all the time. We tried solder coating the parts
in both pots using the same flux and got different results
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:36:45 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Dwight Mattix <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dwight Mattix <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quality Engineer Interviews
X-To: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]
.qc.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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This is one of those impossible questions, like if you were stuck on a
desert island what one book, one game, one person...
Over the course of interviewing many QEs I've learned to ask the candidate
to explain what "in control" means. Then I ask them to explain the
difference between in control and in spec. That filters 80% of the
candidates right there.
But all of this silly, because "Quality Engineer" is an oxymoron. Speaking
as a Sr. Staff QE, any engineer who's any good isn't in quality. ;^)
dw
At 01:47 PM 2/7/2002 -0500, Tempea, Ioan wrote:
>Bonjour Alain,
>
>you have a good point.
>
>The bottom line is that, besides the technical knowledge, the attitude of
>the candidate is also to be assessed. The more he will resort to documents
>(hard evidence) and the less he would trust his instincts, the better it is.
>And I say that because we're talking about a QE, the final authority. For a
>process person, the instincts are sometimes desirable, as long as they are
>subsequently confirmed through a quality analysis.
>
>Good luck Olivia,
>
>Ioan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Alain Savard [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 12:06 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [TN] Quality Engineer Interviews
> >
> > Ioan,
> >
> > The in case of conflict question, I don't quite agree:
> > 1- Is the purchase order or contract,
> > 2- Master engineering drawing,
> > 3- IPC guidelines/specs,
> > 4- TechNet (the info is often more recent then what's in the books, but
> > often needs to be verified, TechNet is however and good place to get
> > access
> > to quick references),
> > 5- Books (usually good but slow for searches),
> > 6- The net (Also need to be verified sometimes).
> >
> > Experience depends on the knowledge level of the individual and is
> > subjective, therefore not 100% reliable.
> >
> > Alain Savard
> > QA - PCB
> > CAE Inc.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tempea, Ioan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 9:34 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: [TN] Quality Engineer Interviews
> >
> >
> > A few more questions:
> >
> > - how did you learn the business (the best answer would some core
> > manufacturing courses during his/her university years, enhanced by
> > seminars
> > during his/her professional years)
> > - in case of conflict, what is your reference (best answer Technet, second
> > best answer Klein Wassink or other text books; bad answer "my experience")
> >
> > Ioan
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [log in to unmask] [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 8:17 AM
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [TN] Quality Engineer Interviews
> > >
> > > Olivia,
> > > One question that I would ask is:
> > > If you were faced with a decision to ship a product with some quality or
> > > reliability concerns in order to make a very important ship date, what
> > > would you do?
> > >
> > > Almost every quality engineer faces this at one point or another. The
> > > answer may let you know if the individual views quality or production
> > > schedules higher.
> > >
> > > Doug Pauls
> > >
> > >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:38:24 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re:
X-To: Prasad An <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Yor supplier can be more specific that we can. For example, one supplier
says the specific gravity is:
Low Solids No-Clean||Rosin Free Low Solids No-Clean||VOC-Free
No-Clean||VOC-Free No-Clean
0.800 ± 0.005||0.814 ± 0.003||1.014 ± 0.010||1.008 ± 0.003
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Prasad An" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 7:59 AM
Subject: [TN]
> Hi all
>
> Can any one tell me how to measure the Specific Gravity of NO-CLEAN FLUX..
>
>
>
> PRASAD
>
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 23:03:33 +0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
praveen kumar manjeshwar <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: praveen kumar manjeshwar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Doped Eutectic Solder Paste
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hi All,
What does doped eutectic solder paste mean? (I believe it contains traces of
palladium)
What are the properties and percentage of constituents of doped eutectic
solder paste?
Finally, where and why is doped eutectic solder paste used in Surface Mount
Technology?
Thanks and have a nice day.
Praveen
=======================================================================
M. Praveen Kumar
2021, North Milpitas Blvd., Apt #320,
Milpitas,
California:95035
Tel:(408) 719 1913
_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:03:24 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Smith, Russell (US LA)" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Smith, Russell (US LA)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Semi Aqueous developers
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Does Any one out there still use , or happen to remember the formula =
that was used for semi aqueous developer for dry film?=20
Thanks=20
Russell Smith
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Gallegos [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thu, February 07, 2002 9:54 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN]
Prasad,
Specific Gravity is measured at a particular temperature. and is =
stipulated
as xxx @ xxxdegrees c/f. My hydrometer has a built in scale as well as
temperature scale. If the Temperature is different than that
of what is stipulated, then you will need to have a formula for figuring =
the
Specific gravity at that temperature, I found this out by
going to the Alpha Metals engineer for the flux that I was using.
Barry.
-----Original Message-----
From: Prasad An [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 8:59 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN]
Hi all
Can any one tell me how to measure the Specific Gravity of NO-CLEAN =
FLUX..
PRASAD
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Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 08:15:19 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re:
X-To: Surface Mount <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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You'll just ruin a lot of nice new paste. It's like having hot water, and
cold water that used to be hot - mix the two and you get warm water. The
cold one is hotter than it was (rejuvinated a bit, if you like, but not
completely) while the hot water is much cooler (rapidly aged).
Peter
Surface Mount
<smt@Q-TRONIC To: [log in to unmask]
S.NET> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
Sent by: Aero/ST Group)
TechNet Subject: [TN]
<[log in to unmask]
ORG>
02/08/02
04:48 AM
Please
respond to
"TechNet
E-Mail
Forum.";
Please
respond to
Surface Mount
Hello,
I work for a small PCB Manufacturing plant in Michigan. I am somewhat
new to the buisness, and my co-workers have been giving me info about
solder
paste, but there seems to be some questions about solder paste use
We use Kester R562 solder paste. One of the things they are telling me is
mixing new solder paste with old solder paste will rejuvinate the old
paste.
Is this true, or will it just ruin the new paste.
Art Hampton
[This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:28:22 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Conformal coat over Low solids flux
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
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Susan,
Please convince your client to listen to Brian. This is VERY touchy territory.
David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> Sent this the first time with help as the first word and it got kicked out.
>
> I have searched the archives for info and have not been successful.
> Where can I go to find info on the success of putting conf coat over
> low-solids fluxes.
>
> Susan Mansilla
> Robisan Lab
>
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 19:45:12 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Solder Preform Source
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_b2.62ce967.29947998_boundary"
--part1_b2.62ce967.29947998_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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No doubt you've already bought the headers, but have you looked into Teka
products with solder bearing leads? I used them for PC104 connectors (when I
had exactly the same problem as you). You reflow them along with your surface
mount, no hand soldering required! Go to:
http://www.tekais.com/through_hole.htm
-Steve Gregory-
> Greetings,
>
> I'm trying to locate sources for solder pre-forms. We are installing a
> special 4 row header with long pins and cannot get a soldering iron into
> the middle rows of pins.
>
> Pin spacing is 2mm. Pins are .5 x .5mm Pads are 1.65mm OD and .81mm
> ID.
>
> Any suggestions on sources to get solder doughnuts??
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom Parkinson
> WinTronics, Inc.
>
--part1_b2.62ce967.29947998_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>No doubt you've already bought the headers, but have you looked into Teka products with solder bearing leads? I used them for PC104 connectors (when I had exactly the same problem as you). You reflow them along with your surface mount, no hand soldering required! Go to:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.tekais.com/through_hole.htm<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Greetings,<BR>
<BR>
I'm trying to locate sources for solder pre-forms. We are installing a<BR>
special 4 row header with long pins and cannot get a soldering iron into<BR>
the middle rows of pins.<BR>
<BR>
Pin spacing is 2mm. Pins are .5 x .5mm Pads are 1.65mm OD and .81mm<BR>
ID.<BR>
<BR>
Any suggestions on sources to get solder doughnuts??<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
<BR>
Tom Parkinson<BR>
WinTronics, Inc.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_b2.62ce967.29947998_boundary--
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:59:41 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Component Join Shear Test
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello Technetters,
Besides the Wire Bond Shear Test, does Jedec, or IPC,
or other any committees have any other standard Shear
Test for Component Joins.
Your advise, again, are always appreciated.
Stacy
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:01:37 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Source for color dye to test BGA solder joints
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1B01A.A23057C0"
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1B01A.A23057C0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Any recommendation on the dye to use?=20
* Magnaflux [3624 West Lake Ave Glenview, Illinois 60025 847-657-5300 =
Fax 5388] Spotcheck Red Dye is a good general purpose dye for visual =
work. They also sell fluorescent dyes.
* Other dye penetrant suppliers are:
- Trikon Technologies 3375 Griffith St, St. Laurent Qc. (Canada) H4T 1W5 =
http://www.trikontech.com
- Sherwin 5530 Borwick Ave Southgate, CA 90280 (562) 861-6324 FAX (562) =
923-8370 http://www.sherwininc.com/=20
"Reliability Of Ball Grid Array Packages In An Automotive Environment" =
Per-Erik Tegehall, Proc. Surface Mount International, 1997, pp. 85-92 =
analyzed ball cracking in BGA packages with dye penetrant methods.
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Francis Sun=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 11:25 AM
Subject: [TN] Source for color dye to test BGA solder joints
Hello,
Anyone out there know when I can get hold of color dye used to test =
for BGA connectivity?
Any help would be appreciated.
TIA
Francis Sun
MARK IV Industries=20
(905) 624-3025 ext. 1235
Fax: (905) 624-4572
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send =
e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings =
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ext.5315 =
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------=20
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C1B01A.A23057C0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any recommendation on the dye to use? =
<BR>*=20
Magnaflux [3624 West Lake Ave Glenview, Illinois 60025 847-657-5300 Fax =
5388]=20
Spotcheck Red Dye is a good general purpose dye for visual work. They =
also sell=20
fluorescent dyes.<BR>* Other dye penetrant suppliers are:<BR>- Trikon=20
Technologies 3375 Griffith St, St. Laurent Qc. (Canada) H4T 1W5 <A =
class=3Droll=20
href=3D"http://www.trikontech.com/"=20
target=3D_blank>http://www.trikontech.com</A><BR>- Sherwin 5530 Borwick =
Ave=20
Southgate, CA 90280 (562) 861-6324 FAX (562) 923-8370 <A class=3Droll=20
href=3D"http://www.sherwininc.com/" =
target=3D_blank>http://www.sherwininc.com</A>/=20
<P>"Reliability Of Ball Grid Array Packages In An Automotive =
Environment"=20
Per-Erik Tegehall, Proc. Surface Mount International, 1997, pp. 85-92 =
analyzed=20
ball cracking in BGA packages with dye penetrant methods.</P>
<P>Dave Fish</P>
<P></FONT>----- Original Message ----- </P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" =
[log in to unmask]>Francis=20
Sun</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=20
[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 07, =
2002 11:25=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Source for color =
dye to=20
test BGA solder joints</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT=20
face=3D"Default Sans Serif, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" =
size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Default Sans Serif, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" =
size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Default Sans Serif, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" =
size=3D2>
<DIV>Hello,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Anyone out there know when I can get hold of color dye used to =
test for=20
BGA connectivity?</DIV>
<DIV>Any help would be appreciated.</DIV>
=
<DIV>TIA<BR><BR>Francis Sun<BR>MARK IV Industries <BR=
>(905) 624-3025 ext. 1235<BR>Fax: (905) 624-4572=
<BR></DIV></FONT></FONT></FONT>------------------------------------------=
---------------------------------------=20
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV =
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unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in =
the=20
BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt =
delivery of=20
Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive =
ONE=20
mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET =
Technet=20
Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources =
&=20
Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site=20
(http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information, or =
contact=20
Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315=20
=
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Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:20:35 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Jiang Ping <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jiang Ping <[log in to unmask]>
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Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 19:55:34 -0800
Reply-To: Leo Roos <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Leo Roos <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Semi Aqueous developers
X-To: "Smith, Russell (US LA)" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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If memory serves correctly, it was about 1-2% sodium carbonate and up to 5%
of butyl cellosolve or carbitol. Carbitol was preferred because it has
slightly more solubility in water. Also, in the early days we used sodium
borate as the base.
Leo Roos
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Smith, Russell (US LA)" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 4:03 PM
Subject: [TN] Semi Aqueous developers
Does Any one out there still use , or happen to remember the formula
that was used for semi aqueous developer for dry film?
Thanks
Russell Smith
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Gallegos [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thu, February 07, 2002 9:54 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN]
Prasad,
Specific Gravity is measured at a particular temperature. and is stipulated
as xxx @ xxxdegrees c/f. My hydrometer has a built in scale as well as
temperature scale. If the Temperature is different than that
of what is stipulated, then you will need to have a formula for figuring the
Specific gravity at that temperature, I found this out by
going to the Alpha Metals engineer for the flux that I was using.
Barry.
-----Original Message-----
From: Prasad An [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 8:59 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN]
Hi all
Can any one tell me how to measure the Specific Gravity of NO-CLEAN FLUX..
PRASAD
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Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 08:41:34 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Tegehall Per-Erik <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Tegehall Per-Erik <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ceramic CSP's and BGA's in general
X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
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I did a study for European Space Agency that was finished last year in =
which
we evaluated the reliability of IBM's CBGAs and CCGAs for space
applications, i.e. packages with "hard" balls and columns. One clear =
result
was that amount of solder paste printed on the solder lands is very =
critical
for the fatigue life of solder joints to CBGAs. If too little solder =
paste
is printed, it will result in a meagre solder fillet between the ball =
and
the solder land on the PCB (since the ball does not melt). If the =
diameter
of the solder fillet becomes less than the diameter of the ball it will
decrease the fatigue life dramatically. Meagre solder joints may also =
be
caused by warpage of the PCB and maybe also by some ceramic packages
(depending on their construction and thickness). So if you go for =
packages
with hard balls, I would recommend that you look over how you control =
that
the right paste volume is printed on the solder lands prior to mounting =
the
components.
Per-Erik Tegehall
IVF, Sweden
-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Fr=E5n: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Skickat: den 7 februari 2002 21:41
Till: [log in to unmask]
=C4mne: [TN] Ceramic CSP's and BGA's in general
Kind folks of the IPC TechNet and those not so but well informed =
concering
the subject issue - for me.
I have gone back and re-read all the articles and papers concerning =
ceramic
packages, but for CCGA's. I am, as some of you in the past, about the =
great
CTE mismatch between ceramic, silicon, and MLB's without constraining =
or
tailoring core materials.
My "frinds" at TI and IBM have been the primary players in this game. =
TI's
approach to solder balls is using eutectic types - I belive though not
certain in every instance. IBM talks to hard balls (90% lead) instead - =
in
most cases as I again believe.
I like the hard ball approach because no collapse, of course, is =
effected
during reflow. Therefore, more hot air is allowed to "circulate" under =
and
between the balls effecting a better solder joint consistently.
I am hopeful, some of you can shed some light with positive experiences =
with
the aformentiond parts and their solder joint acceptable initially, and =
long
term reliability. Realizing we have gone down this pass a few times, I =
hope
there is some "new" information besides the great stuff the two =
companies in
question provide.
As a lover of CCGA's, past and present, by IBM, I wish these parts =
could use
this technology. It works first and always.
Beyond this, I am hoping TI, as a major DSP device supplier, proves its
plastic BGA (super BGA or perimeter BGA - whichever) does the job. It =
is
said they are packaging four chips in this package style making it =
lower
cost and certainly more reliable due to the CTE issue.
Any input appreciated,
MoonMan
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in
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[log in to unmask]: SET
Technet NOMAIL
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[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
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E-mail Archives
Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for =
additional
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or =
847-509-9700
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:04:08 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Soldering Process
X-To: Antonio Souza <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Antonio,
seems "someone" has forgotten your problem.
As a start you may consider IPC document A-610 Rev C Acceptability Of
Electronic Assemblies.
On the topic of reliability tests and a hint to the appropriate =
standard
there was a thread a couple of days ago, can=B4t remember the exact =
subject
so, maybe someone else can.
Good luck=20
Wolfgang
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Antonio Souza [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 6:24 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Soldering Process
>=20
>=20
> Please
>=20
> I need to qualify my Soldering Process( Electronic components ). =
Could
> someone suggest some tests to be performed and some Documents=20
> or Standards
> for Reference !
> Did somebody know anything about Thermal Shock to check the solder
> conection?
>=20
> thanks
>=20
> Antonio Souza
> INPE/Brazil
>=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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> & Databases > E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm)=20
> for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or=20
> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
>=20
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Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:18:43 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Baking MSP components on Tape and Reel
X-To: peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Peter,
you may start with IPC/JEDEC J-STD-033. You can download this standard from
the download section of IPC.
If the criteria in that document meet the requirements for your tape and
reel material should be checked with your supplier.
Good luck
Wolfgang
> -----Original Message-----
> From: peter lee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 6:06 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Baking MSP components on Tape and Reel
>
>
> Does anyone have any experience baking out moisture
> from MSP components on Tape and Reel?
>
> What is the criteria and guidelines for this process?
> (material, oven temp. baking time etc.)
>
> In case if the components cannot be baked on the reel
> due to heat sensitive cover tape material, are there
> any companies out there that I can outsource this task
> (baking/ re-T&R, repacking)?
>
>
> Rgds,
> Peter
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
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> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
>
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Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:46:24 +0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Olivia Mc Dermott <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Olivia Mc Dermott <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Draft of Interview Questions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hi All,
I'm posting the questions I received from Technetters. Could you have a look
and put in the answers you think should be answered. I need to know from the
best in the business and that can only be you guys/gals.
Thanks for all your help.
Question:
1. How can quality be assured before production begins?
2. How can process effectiveness and corresponding quality be determined
during and after production?
3. How would you continually analyse the most required production materials
from start to finish of a production run?
4. Have you ever performed a Cp/Cpk? If the value was less than 1.33 what
did/would you do to improve the process and increase the value?
5. How would you determine a process to be in control?
6. What are the most important factors in quality?
7. The main function of a QE is establishing and maintaining quality. What
are your preferences?
8. What would be your measures and methods?
9. What knowledge do you have of the following:
Statistical Process Control
Design of Experiments
Continuous Sampling Plans
Regression Analysis
Measurement Quality
10. How would you get the team involved to correct quality issues?
11. What is the difference between 'in control' and 'spec'?
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Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:41:29 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Peter Swanson <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Peter Swanson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Component Join Shear Test
X-To: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
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This question just appeared on The SMART Group's forum as well, so I can
reiterate my answer there:
I don't think these are covered by IPC standards.
Further research gets me this quote from Werner Engelmaier:
"There is no shear strength standard for solder joints, nor can there be.
If solder joints are properly wetted, they have more than ample strength
for
normal, even severe, handling and operating conditions. If they are not
properly wetted, the strength will be inadequate; because you really do not
have a solder joint. Solder joint reliability for properly wetted SJs is
not
a function of SJ strength.
The solder joint strength in pull/shear will vary with lead geometry,
solder
volume, lead metal/metallization, the way the test is done. For
50-mil-pitch
gullwings pull strength between 2000 and 5000g are typically measured."
--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Peter Swanson Oxfordshire, England
Dynamix Technology Ltd
IPC Standards, Guidelines & Videos - Electronics Manufacturing Bookshop
[log in to unmask] http://www.dynamixtechnology.com
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
-----Original Message-----
From: My Nguyen [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 08 February 2002 1:00
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Component Join Shear Test
Hello Technetters,
Besides the Wire Bond Shear Test, does Jedec, or IPC,
or other any committees have any other standard Shear
Test for Component Joins.
Your advise, again, are always appreciated.
Stacy
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Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 12:06:59 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Zweigart, Siegmund" <[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Zweigart, Siegmund" <[log in to unmask]>
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Do anybody know where I can get information about the following soldering
processes?
Soldering by laser
Ultra sonic soldering
Vapour phase soldering
Soldering with hot stamps
HF soldering (impulse solder)
Best reagards
Siggi
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Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 05:49:45 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ceramic CSP's and BGA's in general
X-To: [log in to unmask]
Per-Erik,
I appreciate that information. I am in the middle of attempting to
understand IBM's research and findings concerning hard balls. They seem, so
far, to be saying exactly what you state.
The delimma simply is, I would prefer plastic over ceramic no matter the
findings. This is for reasons obvious as "easy" to profile and assemble with
very high quality and reliability solder joints not having such as high CTE
to board/pad ratio as ceramic.
We've all been down this path with LCCC's in military applications. Having
said that, the most reliable conditions were met using constraining or
tailoring cores in MLB's. As our application certainly must be reliable, it
cannot compete under such conditions in a commercial market. My biggest
concern in all this is knowing no matter how good our design rules, taken
from TI and other industry leaders, MLB's, and assembly processes, in
qualified manufacturing capabilities, it may be likely we will experience
failures down the road due, in part, to the huge CTE differential on
"normal" boards. This concern is compounded by normal thermal and mechanical
stresses endured under "normal" operating conditions.
I am looking into TI's "new" super BGA packaging in which 4 DSP's are
attached inside one of these packages offering, hopefully, better pricing
along with no fuss assembly. While on this subject, has anyone had
experience using these components?
I would appreciate knowing how I might receive your findings either in
papers, articles, or books. Could you let me know.
I certainly appreciate your very valuable input. Could you tell me a bit
more about yourself.
Enjoy,
Earl
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Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 06:57:31 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Conformal coat over Low solids flux
X-To: [log in to unmask]
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The correct report numbers are PP0014 and PP0015. Select Technical Library,
Select Browse EMPF Publication Abstracts. Drag the elevator bar to NO-CLEAN
the two documents that Doug refers to are there.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
> [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 11:22 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal coat over Low solids flux
>
>
> Susan,
> As I recall, when EMPF was still in Indy, they did a fairly
> extensive study
> on conformal coat adhesion over LSF residues. I know of two reports they
> did
> RR0014 Conformal Coat over LSF Residues
> RR0015 Low and No VOC coatings Over LSF Residues.
>
> You should be able to get these from EMPF at www.empf.org
>
> Doug Pauls
> Rockwell Collins
>
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>
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Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 07:14:35 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>,
"Creswick, Steven" <[log in to unmask]>
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