I'm still a bit confused. Management is the ultimate control, from a business point I define it as getting people to do what I want them to do with a minimum of effort on my part. Hopefully they will enjoy the whole thing. As an effective manager I should be able to function in any position that reports to them (although not as well since a good manager hires people more knowable than they are), to me this implies at least a rudimentary understanding of the processes and their control. Could be if more management folks operated like this we wouldn't be having some of the discussions I have been reading. When management distances themselves from the process they start to focus on the bottom line, say good bye to cognate thought, the $$ blind you. The happiest I have ever been was working for a company whose owner knew how to run the UPS software. Dan --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To recieve ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------