Brian, Thanks for that expansive input. I especially liked the "bully" part. No one should have to go through that. I might add some fuel for thought to inspire more interactivity. Is that the same as concurrence? Not always, I think, as agreement is not always forthcoming. Creativity is a wonderful, essential element when developing new product. It not always is so when making product meeting specified quality or reliability requirements. Creativity alone will not get the job done. There must be an organization in place working to effect a plan under management direction. All people within the organization, ideally, must be on the same page with everyone else - in accordance with management direction. This is concurrence. Without a good plan, the organization is not cohesive. ISO offers standards for creating a good plan. How well it is implemented and practiced, is another issue left for management direction. With effective management direction, concurrence is assured. If individuals within the organization are not acting responsibly, control is lost and inconsistencies are effected. Once control is lost, it is difficult to regain any idea about what must be done next. The plan is lost. Not defending ISO or its motivation beyond what it proports to be (self serving and profitable), it?s your choice, for whatever reason, to become ISO registered. Though I thought we have gone well beyond marketing fluff with the intent of only attracting new customers, some still need that reason for improvement, let alone survival. This especially is true in harsh or hostile economic times. Still, no matter the economic reality of the day, if one seeks registration, shouldn?t it be prudent to examine the benefits beyond attracting new customers. In the good old days, when one wished to do DoD work, MIL-Q-9858A prevailed as the bible much as ISO does now even though ISO evolved from our MIL requirements. In those days, all evaluation and qualification requirements started with it. This went beyond based on individual contract/customer requirements. One thing was certain, if you couldn?t prove compliance as stated in only 11 pages, you wouldn?t be considered. Just for consideration and thanks again especially for your concurrent aspirations, Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET Technet NOMAIL Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------