Hi, Mel, I wish I had some good pictures I could send you, and X-rays, but on two counts, that's not quite possible yet - 1) we actually don't have a handy digital camera for such work, though I'm aiming to get one and 2) the X-ray facilities out here in Singapore are well less than wonderful. I could try a hospital set-up, but they're fully booked. To get any half way decent magnification on our images, the machine our test lab has suffers from a wide angle effect - i.e. the straight lines of balls have developed a distinct curvature at the outer edges. If it were a straight picture, the results could be interpreted as incorrect land pattern size, as I get increasingly oval features on the X-rays, radiating out from the centre to the edges and corners, but I know the BGA's are OK. If you're putting BGA's into 610D, maybe you can include underfilling as well. Anyone know of anyone in Singapore with an ultrasonic inspection machine for checking underfill, by the way? So far, as long as the board has had a good clean and the underfill comes out the other sides, I have to accept that the fill underneath is OK, as I haven't found anywhere to check it out. I haven't found an official spec yet either that covers requirements for underfilling BGA's, especially on class 3 military boards - only learned papers on what the material does, how it works and how it can be inspected. Does anyone know of one? Are there any added problems if underfill is incomplete, for example, or is there just reduced effectiveness if there are voids around any of the balls or elsewhere in the fill? Another topic for 610D could be more on MSD's and the effects/inspection methodology/acceptability of moisture-laden components having been mounted onto boards - warping, delaminating, etc. 610D could become substantially fatter than its earlier versions! Peter Mel Parrish <mparrish@SOLDERIN To: [log in to unmask] GTECH.COM> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST Sent by: TechNet Aero/ST Group) <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [TN] Lead Length/Protrusion 01/11/02 12:06 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." Thanks Peter, Wish you could have been there for the last revision. There was a concerted effort to block inclusion of BGA criteria in the last release. Hopefully we can do better this time around. Any pictures you can spare would be appreciated. We have added a new XRay capability and should be able to support that development also. What about Flip Chip content from the assembly acceptability viewpoint? Also with the advent of newer technology applications, wire bond criteria? Mel Parrish -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of <Peter George Duncan> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 4:39 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] Lead Length/Protrusion Mel, I whole-heartedly second your desire to see more SMT applications detailed in the spec, especially BGA mounting and inspection (with X-ray pictures and how to interpret them). Peter Mel Parrish <mparrish@SOLDERIN To: [log in to unmask] GTECH.COM> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST Sent by: TechNet Aero/ST Group) <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [TN] Lead Length/Protrusion 01/10/02 12:05 AM Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." Olivia Amendment 1 to 610C identifies 2.5mm as the correct value. The amendment was released a couple of months ago and is available on the IPC web site. By the way, work is in progress toward Revision D to this document. We have accumulated a number of comments and would appreciate any additional information that you would like to see in the new 610. We certainly could use some additional information on the newer technology applications. The next technical meeting will be at APEX on 19 Jan. Mel Parrish Soldering Technology International Madison, AL 256 705 5530 256 705 5538 Fax [log in to unmask] -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Olivia Mc Dermott Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 5:41 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [TN] Lead Length/Protrusion Hi ALl, Why are there 2 references to lead length/protrusion in IPC-A-610C. In 'Component Installation Location/Orientation' - point 5.2.7.1 table 5.2 lead protrusion for class 2 is 2.5mm but in 'Soldering' point 6.2 table 6.1 lead protrusion for class 2 is 2.3mm. Which one do we use? _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To recieve ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To recieve ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- [This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. 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