Jana, I've really missed our interesting conversations. You know how I feel about incoming inspections. I needn't repeat they should be abandoned entirely. You know how I feel about DFM/CE and the highly manufacturable designs that should come from their processes. You also know that I revere good supplier evaluation and qualification processes and procedures. Hell, is there anyone who doesn't know how I feel and does it matter? In the good old days, besides the other MIL documents I've discussed, there was another named MIL-I-45208. When a supplier couldn't conform to some other requirements assuring process control was being effected, some customers allowed inspections to be performed. In all cases, inspections performed - whether at incoming, in process, or at final - required results to be correlated with customer contract requirements as drawings and/or specifications. Again, in all cases, when defects were found, exceeding acceptance criteria, corrective action was required. Sound familiar - as in ISO 9000? Anyway, if corrective action yielded defects, contracts were cancelled at some point. Customer incoming inspections could be used to find defect, but it was highly desirable, to continue good supplier/customer relations, that they were caught at least at final. Another inspection technique was using source inspectors at the supplier site to assist in finding defect or approving specified quality. You may think in these terms. But, as Daan has said, and everyone in the free world knows, you can't inspect quality into product. In this light, how much abuse does one have to endure before something affecting adverse quality is done. Do you change the design, process, or both? It's up to the customer and when the right decision is made, life is better as quality improves. MIL-Q-9858A (another AAAAAA) is available in the paper back version (actually .pdf) from you local SITNET dealer. It's just for interest's sake. Enjoy Jana, Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET Technet NOMAIL Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------