Just for some serious giggles, I offer information about a world before ISO. I've kept a copy of MIL-Q-9858A almost from its creation and implementation at the shown revision level (AAAAAAAA) in 1965. It worked so well for so many it never needed revising. How about that? I asled Steve Gregory to kindly post a .jpg image of page one on his great site. If you even thought of doing business with the US Goverment, and its various agencies and sub contractors, you had to meet the shall requirements in all 11 pages (11 pages - how hard could that have been?). The qualification process involved using a little audit procedure/handbook, with a few clearly defined check-lists. This was MIL-HDBK-50A. I lost my copy of the little devil so our good friend Steve Sauer scanned and sent me the entire document. It was a little longer at 55 pages. If you got past the audit process, administered by folks like Steve S. you were approved to SEEK business with government contractors. The hook was, each contractor you sought business from had its set of rules and the qualification process became that much harder though that little handbook was always in the hands of the auditor. Your customers, as an example, often had procurement folks relishing the chance to put you out of business when you accepted and failed at an attempt at a conract. Exciting times, eh? I also asked Steve Gregory to place two .jpg images on his site. They represent some very simple questions concerning a suppliers ability, or not, to provide acceptable product meeting customer/government specified contract requirements. Don't forget the statement of work (SOW) suppliers had to provide showing exactly how success was to be accomplished. I just wanted to bring this up because, first, it's fun to look back on an exciting time when creativity was not stifled by rules but imense progress was made such as a lunar landing or two without benefit of today's "modern/advanced" technology and freedom to just do it without always thinking about how to do it right the first time. Anyway, I hope all those, and others, might find reading these few pages on Steve's site. I sure hope this makes us all think how these MIL documents evolved almost word for word and requirement int ISO 9000 and how much easier it is to succed in this times when a GOOD quality system is in place and functioning well. I would only add, in such declining and near dire economic times for many, folks are starting to look to the government for their incomes. Steve Gregory has attested to that most recently. It certainly has made me look more seriously about my future and how to participate in the emerging military market place. It might behove (is that a word?) some others to do the same. It's fun, profitable, and you get to make things that go boom. Earl Moon --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET Technet NOMAIL Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------