Seth, Absolutely great stuff. I've been down this road too many times with designers, and good ones at that, and share their frustration over what you have said. I sure agree, we have to get on the same page at some point though, as you say, the ICT folks have to start the discussion somewhere. I hope Werner's suggestion about the new IPC 7091 provides some standardization guidelines for all industry participants. I'm ordering it today provided I can find it in the catalogue. Earl --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------