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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:05:58 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Douthit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Red plaque on Silver plated wire?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854";
x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
As a follow up - ASTM B298, the coating continuity tests for Ag plating (polysulfide and
HCl tests), states that anything less than 40 micro inches Ag will not pass.
As for the 85/85 test it is possible to create liquid water on a surface during this test but
it is much easier to create a liquid water film at lower temperatures. This low temperature
film occurs prior to visible condensation (as low as 60% RH) and depending on the types and
amounts of contaminants present can cause serious damage in a short amount of time.
This "thin film" water layer occurring prior to visible condensation is what I was referring
to.
David A. Douthit
Manager
LoCan LLC
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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:13:04 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ryan Grant <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA long term storage?
Not very likely. The IMC's are Nickel Tins which do not grow very fast at
soldering temperatures let alone at room temperature.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <Peter George Duncan> [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 4:48 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] BGA long term storage?
>
> How about our afvourite IMC's building up within the component -
> ball/component interface for example? Will that affect long term
> reliability/solderabity after a long period of storage?
>
> Just thought I'ld throw that one into the pot.
>
> Peter Duncan
>
>
>
> "d. terstegge"
> <[log in to unmask] To:
> [log in to unmask]
> GROUP.COM> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN
> Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
> Sent by: TechNet Aero/ST Group)
> <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [TN]
> BGA long term storage?
>
>
> 11/28/01 07:08 PM
> Please respond to
> "TechNet E-Mail Forum."
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hmmm, seems I'm the only one who adviced not to worry about long term
> storage of BGA's. I must admit that I never stored a BGA for 10 years to
> see how it solders, but I really don't expect the solderability to
> decrease
> to such an extend that the balls will not solder anymore.
> According to Klein Wassink the oxidation layer on solder will grow
> approximately logarithmically with time, resulting in about 6nm after 20
> years which is just twice as thick as after one year !
> So my question is: are nitrogen cabinets, ROSA-technology or redesigns
> REALLY necesarry ?
> Maybe one of the metallurgists on this forum can add a few words ?
>
> Daan Terstegge
> SMT Centre
> Thales Communications
> Unclassified mail
> Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net
>
> >>> Graham Collins <[log in to unmask]> 11/27 1:02 pm >>>
> Hi Doug!
> Indeed - not a new problem - and one we have faced on other programs.
> It's
> just the BGAs that are new to us for this problem.
>
> Nitrogen storage is available here and I expect that's what we will use
> (unless some other TechNet guru has a better idea!).
>
> I've heard of ROSA, and in fact Dave was kind enough to send me a 35mm
> thick document describing some experiments and results with it. Very
> interesting machine. Do you know if anything ever come of the work to
> produce a commercial (non-lab) version of this? Hmm... wonder what
> happened to Bev's?
>
> Anyway - thanks to everyone for the responses. Nitrogen storage was/is
> the
> plan, but it is always good to have a sanity check with some experts.
>
> regards
>
> Graham Collins
> Process Engineer,
> Northrop Grumman
> Atlantic Facility of Litton Systems Canada
> (902) 873-2000 ext 6215
>
> >>> [log in to unmask] 11/26/01 04:11PM >>>
> The issue of long term storage of parts or boards is not a new one. The
> military, faced with REALLY long lifetimes (e.g. 50 years for a MX
> missile)
> and decreaseing market clout, has had to deal with lifetime buys for a
> long
> time. In my mind, there are two possibilities: (1) preserve the original
> solderability for as long as possible, or (2) plan on restoring the
> solderability at some point in the future when the part is needed.
>
> In the first case, you will have to setup some fairly elaborate storage
> conditions where oxygen and moisture are excluded. Dry nitrogen is most
> common, but alternatives could include dessicated conditions or coverage
> with a heavy noble gas like argon. You will have to setup incoming and
> outgoing logs that tightly control the inventory, and you have to have
> floor space for the storage for the life span of the part.
>
> In the second case, you restore the solderable surface. Some people do
> this using aggressive fluxes and re-tinning, with limited success. An
> alternative to this is to use an electrochemical reduction process called
> ROSA to change the surface oxides to the base metal, restoring
> solderability. ROSA can be done on many parts at the same time, it is
> electroless, and is not too capital intensive. Dave Hillman of Rockwell
> is
> the master of ROSA and has published a number of papers on the topic. He
> would probably answer more fully but he is currently putting the finishing
> touches on his Master's thesis and so won't stick his head out of his
> cubicle for another few days. And when he does, if he sees his shadow,
> there will be 5 more months of winter (in Iowa, that's a safe bet). Where
> was I?
>
> The advantage of the ROSA approach is that it does not matter all that
> much
> what the solderability condition was when the part was received, and the
> storage conditions do not have to be draconian.
>
> As the commercial goes, you can pay me now or pay me later.....
>
> Doug Pauls
> Rockwell Collins
>
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:24:47 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Locating a BGA Rework Service
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
David,
BGA rework is certainly more challenging than through hole or SMT. But, from
a service point of view, what makes BGA rework on a contract basis the most
difficult, is small volume. We have 6 BGA rework machines going all day and
the work progresses well until we're hit with the isolated board or two.
Developing the proper rework profile is essential and this is a tough
assignment with small lots. But, heck fortunately there are nuts like me out
there who'll do this stuff.
Jeff Ferry
CEO
Circuit Technology Center, Inc.
www.circuittechctr.com
[log in to unmask]
978-374-5000
Sign up for our Free E-mail Newsletter at:
www.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: David Antreasian [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 11:12 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Locating a BGA Rework Service
Hello All,
Looking for a few qualified, dependable contractors specializing in BGA
rework. Have tried several in the past, but results always seem mixed -
excellent on one board, not so good on the next (sloppy work, adjacent
parts reflowed, no documentation, turnaround way beyond quote). This is
for low volume repair. Prefer a medium-sized professional shop that can
handle x-ray, reball, and repair with a published track record of CLEAN,
reliable work and clear DOCUMENTATION on what was done and, of course,
need it as quick-turn. Not interested in training classes or buying
equipment. Who's the best out there ?
Thanks,
DavidA
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:22:18 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: ENIG on thru-hole CCAs
X-To: [log in to unmask]
George,
Worked with some folks at Lucent while in Chicago (Andrew supplier to
Lucent). I did GaAs failure analysis on a Toshiba part, etc. Jim Clemans was
one and seemed a neat guy. Do you know him and where he might be? Also, what
is Celiant? Is it a spin off of Lucent, and new entity, or?
Earl
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:25:16 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Virus
Folks,
Never got a virus alert before on my home equipment. Got one this AM at
exactly the same time Ed Valentine's message arrived. Sure it wasn't him but
am concerned. I'm safe according to Norton alert but wondered if anyone else
got the message.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:31:49 +1300
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Michael Bell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Locating a BGA Rework Service
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jeff,
Six BGA rework station eh???? What type of stations are you using??? I am
just starting to look at various BGA rework stations for low volume, high
mix, do you know of any types that would suit this environment???
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Ferry [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, 5 December 2001 09:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Locating a BGA Rework Service
David,
BGA rework is certainly more challenging than through hole or SMT. But, from
a service point of view, what makes BGA rework on a contract basis the most
difficult, is small volume. We have 6 BGA rework machines going all day and
the work progresses well until we're hit with the isolated board or two.
Developing the proper rework profile is essential and this is a tough
assignment with small lots. But, heck fortunately there are nuts like me out
there who'll do this stuff.
Jeff Ferry
CEO
Circuit Technology Center, Inc.
www.circuittechctr.com
[log in to unmask]
978-374-5000
Sign up for our Free E-mail Newsletter at:
www.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: David Antreasian [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 11:12 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Locating a BGA Rework Service
Hello All,
Looking for a few qualified, dependable contractors specializing in BGA
rework. Have tried several in the past, but results always seem mixed -
excellent on one board, not so good on the next (sloppy work, adjacent
parts reflowed, no documentation, turnaround way beyond quote). This is
for low volume repair. Prefer a medium-sized professional shop that can
handle x-ray, reball, and repair with a published track record of CLEAN,
reliable work and clear DOCUMENTATION on what was done and, of course,
need it as quick-turn. Not interested in training classes or buying
equipment. Who's the best out there ?
Thanks,
DavidA
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:39:01 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Chris Almeras <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Virus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We have had a warning from our MIS department about a virus marked "Hi"
with an attachment of "gone.scr". It infected the computers where my
wife works, and I guess it erases things off the system, and sends
itself to those addresses in the inbox. It seems to be made for
Microsoft Outlook, here is a link with more about it
http://vil.mcafee.com/dispVirus.asp?virus_k=3D99272&
Chris Almeras
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Virus
Folks,
Never got a virus alert before on my home equipment. Got one this AM at
exactly the same time Ed Valentine's message arrived. Sure it wasn't him
but
am concerned. I'm safe according to Norton alert but wondered if anyone
else
got the message.
MoonMan
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:36:31 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Virus
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_8AD7B6E0.2948257B"
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=_8AD7B6E0.2948257B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
Our IS group sent a warning this afternoon. =20
"In case you have Outlook at home.
=20
This is a HIGH RISK virus that spread via Microsoft Outlook and can be =
spread via ICQ. This is a mass mailing worm that attempts to send itself =
to all entries in the Outlook Address book. The virus will arrive with the =
following email message:=20
Subject: Hi=20
Body:=20
How are you ?=20
When I saw this screen saver, I immediately thought about you=20
I am in a harry, I promise you will love it!=20
Attachment: GONE.SCR=20
Running this attachment infects the local system.=20
--=_8AD7B6E0.2948257B
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY
style="FONT: 10pt Abadi MT Condensed Light; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: 2px">
<DIV>Our IS group sent a warning this afternoon. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11px"><FONT size=2>"</FONT>In case you have Outlook
at home.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11px"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11px">This is a HIGH RISK virus that spread via
Microsoft Outlook and can be spread via ICQ. This is a mass mailing worm that
attempts to send itself to all entries in the Outlook Address book. The virus
will arrive with the following email message: </DIV>
<P><B>Subject:</B> Hi <BR><B>Body: </B><BR>How are you ? <BR>When I saw this
screen saver, I immediately thought about you <BR>I am in a harry, I promise you
will love it!
<P><B>Attachment: </B>GONE.SCR
<P>Running this attachment infects the local system.
</P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
--=_8AD7B6E0.2948257B--
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:38:28 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Linda Langley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Virus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
We have had a warning from our IT Department not to open messages that say
Hi. It is my understanding that this virus is world wide.
Linda Langley
Training Specialist
(248) 292-6176
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Virus
Folks,
Never got a virus alert before on my home equipment. Got one this AM at
exactly the same time Ed Valentine's message arrived. Sure it wasn't him but
am concerned. I'm safe according to Norton alert but wondered if anyone else
got the message.
MoonMan
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:48:24 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jeff Seeger <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Applied CAD Knowledge Inc
Subject: Re: Virus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
,
Enclosed is the Unix Honor System Virus:
This is a virus. If you are on a Unix system, you are now
infected. In order to comply, please send this to everyone
you know and then do a "rm *".
Thank you.
--
Jeff Seeger Applied CAD Knowledge Inc
Chief Technical Officer Tyngsboro, MA 01879
jseeger "at" appliedcad "dot" com 978 649 9800
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:47:45 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Locating a BGA Rework Service
X-To: Michael E Bell <[log in to unmask]>
Michael,
I am the best rework guy on the planet - besides Jeff. The big difference is
he is a company owner,CEO. Hell, he's a hotshot an I'm a cat's meow.
Anyway, Jeff can direct you well. However, I simply would say this: It
doesn't matter if you're low or volume or whatever mix, the rework process
is time consuming and must be dedicated to whatever assembly, board, and
device you are using. Jeff, would echo this.
I have been doing BGA and CCGA rework since I can remember - with good
success but for bad designs. Hell, I enjoyed reworking stuff just so I could
correlate findings back to design deficiencies. Though not the only reason,
it is one that got me started on this DFM/CE rant.
Couple of good companies, as always, are SRT and Air-Vac. Like Air-Vac now
because of relative simplicity. No matter, be prepaired to spend much time
on profiling starting with solder paste supplier recommended profiles. Then,
you must go from there developing unique profiles for each assembly and each
part of it. Kinda sounds like my inept wave soldering explanation.
One such profile may consist of a total removal cycle of about 15 minutes.
Then, you must clean and prepair the site for solder paste application using
a micro stencil. Once ready, and all MSD requirements are met, you must
place the device accurately and initiate and perform the reflow cycle. All
in all, you spend about 30 or so minutes doing one device. Therefore,
everything adds up to low volume, high mix.
Just had to do this because of the DFM/CE thing. It's always interesting how
much rework needs doing when the initial design is not right. Of course,
repair and modification offer different explanations.
MoonMan
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:00:08 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: John Brewer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Virus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
" It seems to be made for Microsoft Outlook,"
....the mailer of choice, for virus writers worldwide!
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:06:51 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Denis Lefebvre <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Virus
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=====================_25830572==_.ALT"
--=====================_25830572==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Here's the 411 on the new virus:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011204/ts/tech_worm_dc_1.html
http:[log in to unmask]
Denis Lefebvre, C.I.D.
Senior PCB Designer
Salinas, CA 93906
At 02:25 PM 12/4/2001 -0600, you wrote:
>Folks,
>
>Never got a virus alert before on my home equipment. Got one this AM at
>exactly the same time Ed Valentine's message arrived. Sure it wasn't him but
>am concerned. I'm safe according to Norton alert but wondered if anyone else
>got the message.
>
>MoonMan
>
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>
--=====================_25830572==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<html>
Here's the 411 on the new virus:<br><br>
<font color="#0000FF"><u><a href="http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011204/ts/tech_worm_dc_1.html" eudora="autourl">http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011204/ts/tech_worm_dc_1.html<br>
</a><a href="http:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">http:[log in to unmask]<br><br>
</a></u></font>Denis Lefebvre, C.I.D.<br>
Senior PCB Designer<br>
Salinas, CA 93906<br><br>
At 02:25 PM 12/4/2001 -0600, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Folks,<br><br>
Never got a virus alert before on my home equipment. Got one this AM
at<br>
exactly the same time Ed Valentine's message arrived. Sure it wasn't him
but<br>
am concerned. I'm safe according to Norton alert but wondered if anyone
else<br>
got the message.<br><br>
MoonMan<br><br>
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:16:19 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: John Parsons <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Virus
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Everyone loves a comedian :o)
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jeff Seeger
Sent: December 4, 2001 12:48 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Virus
,
Enclosed is the Unix Honor System Virus:
This is a virus. If you are on a Unix system, you are now
infected. In order to comply, please send this to everyone
you know and then do a "rm *".
Thank you.
--
Jeff Seeger Applied CAD Knowledge Inc
Chief Technical Officer Tyngsboro, MA 01879
jseeger "at" appliedcad "dot" com 978 649 9800
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:16:33 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Locating a BGA Rework Service
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Michael,
Started with 1 AirVac and has grown from there. With equipment like this,
nozzles, profiles, etc. once you're familiar with a particular machine you
tend to stick with it. In general very pleased with AirVac, although I would
add that our techs are the best and could probably work with any BGA rework
machine.
Must say that BGA rework is pretty exacting stuff. Wonder if some of these
smaller benchtop units make the grade.
Jeff Ferry
CEO
Circuit Technology Center, Inc.
www.circuittechctr.com
[log in to unmask]
978-374-5000
Sign up for our Free E-mail Newsletter at:
www.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Bell [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:32 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Locating a BGA Rework Service
Jeff,
Six BGA rework station eh???? What type of stations are you using??? I am
just starting to look at various BGA rework stations for low volume, high
mix, do you know of any types that would suit this environment???
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Ferry [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, 5 December 2001 09:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Locating a BGA Rework Service
David,
BGA rework is certainly more challenging than through hole or SMT. But, from
a service point of view, what makes BGA rework on a contract basis the most
difficult, is small volume. We have 6 BGA rework machines going all day and
the work progresses well until we're hit with the isolated board or two.
Developing the proper rework profile is essential and this is a tough
assignment with small lots. But, heck fortunately there are nuts like me out
there who'll do this stuff.
Jeff Ferry
CEO
Circuit Technology Center, Inc.
www.circuittechctr.com
[log in to unmask]
978-374-5000
Sign up for our Free E-mail Newsletter at:
www.circuittechctr.com/general/free_email.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: David Antreasian [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 11:12 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Locating a BGA Rework Service
Hello All,
Looking for a few qualified, dependable contractors specializing in BGA
rework. Have tried several in the past, but results always seem mixed -
excellent on one board, not so good on the next (sloppy work, adjacent
parts reflowed, no documentation, turnaround way beyond quote). This is
for low volume repair. Prefer a medium-sized professional shop that can
handle x-ray, reball, and repair with a published track record of CLEAN,
reliable work and clear DOCUMENTATION on what was done and, of course,
need it as quick-turn. Not interested in training classes or buying
equipment. Who's the best out there ?
Thanks,
DavidA
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 13:19:48 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Denis Lefebvre <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Virus
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
The Number ONE reason I use Eudora!
At 04:00 PM 12/4/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>" It seems to be made for Microsoft Outlook,"
>
>....the mailer of choice, for virus writers worldwide!
>
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>
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:51:45 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Howard Watson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Autocad sharing
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 0077E65587256B18_="
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--=_alternative 0077E65587256B18_=
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Dear Technetters,
Does anyone know of a sharing software that allows users to share Autocad
LT or 14 on a Novell network? We only have 9 licenses available and many
more people than that who need to use Autocad, though some like myself
only need it occasionally. I believe that a share software would only
allow 9 users access at one time.
If there is no such beast, is there a recommendation for a cheaper CAD
package than AutoCAD LT, or one that is a free download? Needless to say,
spending is getting really tight. Thanks in advance for the advice.
Howard Watson
Manufacturing Engineer
AMETEK/Dixson
--=_alternative 0077E65587256B18_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Dear Technetters,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Does anyone know of a sharing software that allows users to share Autocad LT or 14 on a Novell network? We only have 9 licenses available and many more people than that who need to use Autocad, though some like myself only need it occasionally. I believe that a share software would only allow 9 users access at one time.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">If there is no such beast, is there a recommendation for a cheaper CAD package than AutoCAD LT, or one that is a free download? Needless to say, spending is getting really tight. Thanks in advance for the advice.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Howard Watson<br>
Manufacturing Engineer<br>
AMETEK/Dixson</font>
--=_alternative 0077E65587256B18_=--
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 17:35:10 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Autocad sharing
X-To: Howard Watson <[log in to unmask]>
When I am CAD troubled, I turn to Auto Sketch. It is a reasonably priced
package (not much more than Acad Lite) that enables many of your talents. It
allows you to sketch all your dreams and ambitions in one convenient package
and then is capable of exporting drawing files via dxf or dwg extensions.
Folks, do not hesitate. Step right up and take advantage of a near costless
program that guarantees instant results without regard to race, creed, or
religious affiliation. However, it provides only as much as it costs and
that is limited. No warranty information available relative to taliban cave
movement activities.
I don't know but Autocad. You have liscenses (spelling?) so what's the problem?
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:11:35 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Peter George Duncan>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Rust Removal
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi, Earl,
Naval Jelly is phosphoric acid based, and should not be confused with the
can of Coke sitting next to it when you're de-rusting your cat.
Peter Duncan
Earl Moon
<[log in to unmask] To: [log in to unmask]
M.COM> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
Sent by: Aero/ST Group)
TechNet Subject: Re: [TN] Rust Removal
<[log in to unmask]
ORG>
12/05/01
01:35 AM
Please
respond to
"TechNet
E-Mail
Forum."
Sorry, your answer deserved more response. I kind of thought of Naval Jelly
used for cars and such. I used it once for derusting some floorboards in an
old convertible. It worked fine though the damage had already been done.
Is the stuff acidic? It must be according to all the other advice. If so,
does water neutralize it and stop the reaction? Maybe this is where my cat
comes in.
I really do appreciate your input,
Earl Moon
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:08:10 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brad Saunders <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Autocad sharing
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello Howard,
There is a network version of AutoCAD (same as the one your using) it is a
"floating license." Be careful what you wish for, once it is available to
all it is extremely irritating to need it and not be able to access it...
only to find the majority who have it up aren't USING IT!!!! Grrrrr....
Pardon whilst I vent. In any case with that many seats already, your folks
need to contact the AutoDesk people and they will have you going in no time.
That is of course if the internal IS folks can find the time to make it plug
and play!!!!!! oops, I digress again.
I like my stand alone.
Good luck,
Coretec Brad
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:18:34 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Manual Soldering vs. Automatic Soldering
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Hello to All,
One product request a 100% touch up in several joints because of safety.
We are considering doing this process by manual soldering or using automatic
soldering (robot).
What are the advantage and disadvantage of both procedures?
Where can I find a comparison between them?
Is there any reliability issue in using manual soldering?
Any help will be greatly appreciated
Alejandro Becerra
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<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Hello to All,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">One product request a 100% touch up in several joints because of safety.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">We are considering doing this process by manual soldering or using automatic soldering (robot).</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">What are the advantage and disadvantage of both procedures?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Where can I find a comparison between them?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Is there any reliability issue in using manual soldering?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Any help will be greatly appreciated</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Alejandro Becerra</FONT>
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:20:32 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Increasing Silver thickness in immersion Plating
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Werner,
Do you know of any good references in the open literature about tin/silver
Intermetallics? I would really appreciate any citations you can give me.
regards,
Bev Christian
research in Motion
-----Original Message-----
From: Werner Engelmaier [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 3, 2001 10:55 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Increasing Silver thinkness in immersion Plating
Hi Rudy,
Increased Ag thickness may or may not increase solderability shelf life, but
it would do one thing for sure, reduce solder joint reliability. 'Gold
embrittlement' is nothing compared to what too much Ag-Sn IMCs do.
Werner Engelmaier
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:35:52 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Not technical - so delete before reading if not inclined
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Earl,
I presume your last sentence was added to force me to reply?! As he well
knows, I am MALE, so now I am forced to reply just to avoid yet more
confusion on that old point. :)
With regards to the announcement -
On Friday, November 30th I married fellow TechNetter, IPC committee member
and SMTA member, Chris (FEMALE) Gifford (and NO female is NOT her middle
name!) of the Indium Corporation of America. We were introduced to each
other at the March 1999 IPC meeting.
And don't any of you think it is easy getting a working person legitimately
into Canada - because we can tell you it ain't!
regards,
Bev Christian
Research in Motion
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 3, 2001 5:53 PM
To: [log in to unmask]; Bev Christian
Subject: Re: Discontinue TechNet Service
Bev,
Didn't you have another announcement? It certainly didn't have the
importance of your returning to the forum. Missed you babe!
Moon Man
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 23:03:46 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Not technical - so delete before reading if not inclined
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Bev,
First off, congratulations!!! I think I made one of the first the mistakes of
assuming things a few years ago, and then we finally met at the Printed
Circuits Expo in 1999 at Long Beach...at the "Legends of the Technet" deal.
So, I will confess, I was the original "bone-head", I'll admit it, still
kinda' feeling ashamed about that...
Anyways, still intrigued about your blackberry wireless toy...seems very
cool. Do ya hafta' worry about "Goner" viruses with that?
Great to see ya' still here!
-Steve Gregory-
> Earl,
> I presume your last sentence was added to force me to reply?! As he well
> knows, I am MALE, so now I am forced to reply just to avoid yet more
> confusion on that old point. :)
>
> With regards to the announcement -
> On Friday, November 30th I married fellow TechNetter, IPC committee member
> and SMTA member, Chris (FEMALE) Gifford (and NO female is NOT her middle
> name!) of the Indium Corporation of America. We were introduced to each
> other at the March 1999 IPC meeting.
>
> And don't any of you think it is easy getting a working person legitimately
> into Canada - because we can tell you it ain't!
>
> regards,
> Bev Christian
> Research in Motion
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: December 3, 2001 5:53 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]; Bev Christian
> Subject: Re: Discontinue TechNet Service
>
>
> Bev,
>
> Didn't you have another announcement? It certainly didn't have the
> importance of your returning to the forum. Missed you babe!
>
> Moon Man
>
--part1_89.fe34aa7.293ef6a2_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Bev,<BR>
<BR>
First off, congratulations!!! I think I made one of the first the mistakes of assuming things a few years ago, and then we finally met at the Printed Circuits Expo in 1999 at Long Beach...at the "Legends of the Technet" deal. So, I will confess, I was the original "bone-head", I'll admit it, still kinda' feeling ashamed about that...<BR>
<BR>
Anyways, still intrigued about your blackberry wireless toy...seems very cool. Do ya hafta' worry about "Goner" viruses with that?<BR>
<BR>
Great to see ya' still here!<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Earl,<BR>
I presume your last sentence was added to force me to reply?! As he well<BR>
knows, I am MALE, so now I am forced to reply just to avoid yet more<BR>
confusion on that old point. :)<BR>
<BR>
With regards to the announcement -<BR>
On Friday, November 30th I married fellow TechNetter, IPC committee member<BR>
and SMTA member, Chris (FEMALE) Gifford (and NO female is NOT her middle<BR>
name!) of the Indium Corporation of America. We were introduced to each<BR>
other at the March 1999 IPC meeting.<BR>
<BR>
And don't any of you think it is easy getting a working person legitimately<BR>
into Canada - because we can tell you it ain't!<BR>
<BR>
regards,<BR>
Bev Christian<BR>
Research in Motion<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR>
Sent: December 3, 2001 5:53 PM<BR>
To: [log in to unmask]; Bev Christian<BR>
Subject: Re: Discontinue TechNet Service<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bev,<BR>
<BR>
Didn't you have another announcement? It certainly didn't have the<BR>
importance of your returning to the forum. Missed you babe!<BR>
<BR>
Moon Man<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_89.fe34aa7.293ef6a2_boundary--
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 00:18:06 -0500
Reply-To: Ed Valentine <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ed Valentine <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Electronics Manufacturing Solutions
Subject: Re: Virus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
To all Technetters -
First of all, my apologies. A virus was sent with my personal email address
on it. After checking my "Sent Items" folder, I noted that the virus was not
sent by me. I also received the virus and have quarantined it and the
affected file on my system.
Other than this message, the last posting or reply I made to TechNet was
over a month ago. One lesson I learned from this situation is to keep my
virus detection software updated, which I did earlier this evening. After
the updating, the virus detection program quickly picked up and isolated the
virus.
Be that as it may, please accept my sincere apologies. Ed/
Ed Valentine
Electronics Manufacturing Solutions
8612 Mourning Dove Road, Raleigh, NC 27615
Phone: (919) 270-5145, Fax: (919) 847-9971
Email: [log in to unmask]
Website: http://www.ems-consulting.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Moon" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:25 PM
Subject: [TN] Virus
> Folks,
>
> Never got a virus alert before on my home equipment. Got one this AM at
> exactly the same time Ed Valentine's message arrived. Sure it wasn't him
but
> am concerned. I'm safe according to Norton alert but wondered if anyone
else
> got the message.
>
> MoonMan
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
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E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:02:15 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Increasing Silver thickness in immersion Plating
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bev
I'm not Werner but Chapter 20 of Jennie Hwang's new book
'Environmentally-friendly Electronics: Lead-Free Technology' from
Electrochemical Publications gives a dissertation on this subject.
Brian
Bev Christian wrote:
>
> Werner,
> Do you know of any good references in the open literature about tin/silver
> Intermetallics? I would really appreciate any citations you can give me.
> regards,
> Bev Christian
> research in Motion
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Werner Engelmaier [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: December 3, 2001 10:55 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Increasing Silver thinkness in immersion Plating
>
> Hi Rudy,
> Increased Ag thickness may or may not increase solderability shelf life, but
> it would do one thing for sure, reduce solder joint reliability. 'Gold
> embrittlement' is nothing compared to what too much Ag-Sn IMCs do.
>
> Werner Engelmaier
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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> Technet NOMAIL
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> E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:29:06 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Virus
MIME-Version: 1.0
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All these worm-type viruses rely on Microsoft products to propagate
themselves. Similarly, all the macrovirus types also. Obviously, there
are other makes of e-mail clients, also free, and office suites, cheaper
and more technically advanced than the MS offerings, available and
immune. It is for this reason that I use only Netscape products for web
and e-mail use, complemented with on-line virus detection from Norton.
For word processing and spreadsheet use, my preference is the Corel
Office Suite (WordPerfect) which is more powerful and easier to use than
Word/Excel, although I do have the latter to maintain compatibility with
incoming documents. For those who want the nec plus ultra, although it
is trickier to use, Star Office from Sun is free to download and about
10 bucks to get a CD-ROM and combines, in a single software (not
separate ones in a suite for browsing, e-mail, word processing,
spreadsheet etc., like the other ones) and it does everything, but
everything, in that single proggy. It is also cross-platform and works
under Windows, Solaris, Linux, BeOS, Mac etc.
I receive c. 100 pre-filtered e-mails per day, on an average, many with
attachments. Touch wood, I have not had any virus problems with this
technique, for years, although I did receive one Norton warning on one
occasion, when I tried to open an e-mail attachment. Naturally, I never
open attachments that I have not asked for or know nothing about. With
reasonable care, viruses need not be a great problem, provided one
steers clear of Outlook and Outlook Express. If you run either of these,
then there is every chance that, sooner or later, you will do all the
persons in your address book a great disservice, albeit unwittingly.
Brian
Earl Moon wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Never got a virus alert before on my home equipment. Got one this AM at
> exactly the same time Ed Valentine's message arrived. Sure it wasn't him but
> am concerned. I'm safe according to Norton alert but wondered if anyone else
> got the message.
>
> MoonMan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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> Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:00:37 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Joseph H. Smith" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: How many times can PCB pass through oven
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Now we want to use the reflow for shield repair in one of our product
. According to normal experience , PCB is just designed for two times
reflow in SMT .But we concern about whether the solder joint will become
brittle or the inner of PCB will be damage during the third or four
times reflow . We compare the profile using reflow with using heating
gun. It look much better when we use reflow .=20
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<P><SPAN LANG=3D"en-us"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial"> Now =
we want to use the reflow for shield repair in one of our product . =
According to normal experience , PCB is just designed for two times =
reflow in SMT .But we concern about whether the solder joint will become =
brittle or the inner of PCB will be damage during the third or =
four times reflow . We compare the profile using reflow with using =
heating gun. It look much better when we use reflow . </FONT></SPAN></P>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:55:47 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Atkinson, Neil" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Manual Soldering vs. Automatic Soldering
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Why would anyone think that 100% touch up would be effective?
In my experience touch up is likely to cause more problems than it solves -
if you must do it and the application is that critical then I would say go
automatic as you will have direct control of soldering parameters
Neil
-----Original Message-----
From: Becerra Alejandro [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 05 December 2001 02:19
Subject: Manual Soldering vs. Automatic Soldering
Hello to All,
One product request a 100% touch up in several joints because of safety.
We are considering doing this process by manual soldering or using automatic
soldering (robot).
What are the advantage and disadvantage of both procedures?
Where can I find a comparison between them?
Is there any reliability issue in using manual soldering?
Any help will be greatly appreciated
Alejandro Becerra
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>W=
hy would
anyone think that 100% touch up would be =
effective?<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I=
n my
experience touch up is likely to cause more problems than it solves - =
if you
must do it and the application is that critical then I would say go =
automatic
as you will have direct control of soldering =
parameters<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>N=
eil<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Becerra Alejandro
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 05 December 2001 =
02:19<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Manual =
Soldering vs.
Automatic Soldering</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Hello to =
All,</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>One product =
request a
100% touch up in several joints because of safety.</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>We are considering doing this process by =
manual
soldering or using automatic soldering (robot).</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>What are the advantage and disadvantage =
of both
procedures?</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Where can I find a comparison between =
them?</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Is there any reliability issue in using =
manual
soldering?</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Any help will =
be greatly
appreciated</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
<p style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Alejandro =
Becerra</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 06:44:29 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Increasing Silver thickness in immersion Plating
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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Hi Bev,
The industry found out=E2=80=94and since forgot except for a few old-timers=20=
like=20
me=E2=80=94in 1982, what silver can do to solder joints when TI moved some o=
f its=20
PLCC production to Singapore. There somebody decided to Ag-plate the leads.=20
At the first unfortunate recipient of this product, IBM-Austin, the PLCCs=20
started to literally fall off the PCBs when slight bending, such during=20
fixturing for functional testing, put even very small loads onto the solder=20
joints. As a consequence of this scary news (nobody knew about the Ag yet an=
d=20
compliant leads were just invented and without history), 17 competing=20
companies joined forces and formed the IEEE Compliant Lead Task Force. =20
Silver, it turns out creates an even weaker intermetallic compound (IMC) wit=
h=20
tin than does gold. The necessary IMC concentration necessary for this effec=
t=20
is about the same as for Au.=20
Because of legal problems (the 2 companies with the lowest PLCC fatigue live=
s=20
threatened to sue everybody involved in the IEEE CLTF), the results, except=20
for some preliminary data, were never published.
Unfortuna tely I am on rthe road, so I can onlygive you my own publications,=
=20
but some related references are listed in them:
Engelmaier, W., "IEEE Compliant Lead Task Force--Phase I: Correlation and=20
Analysis of Solder Joint Fatigue Results Obtained at Different Cyclic=20
Frequencies and Temperatures," Proc. 5th Annual Int. Electronics Packaging=20
Conf. (IEPS), Orlando, FL, October 1985, p. 279.
Engelmaier, W., "IEEE Compliant Lead Task Force--A Progress Report," Proc.=20
8th Annual Int. Electronics Packaging Conf. (IEPS), Dallas, TX, November=20
1988, p. 891.=20
There were some papers by Jack Balde and others.
Sorry, but I can not be of more help.
Werner Engelmaier
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 06:44:27 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Chris & Bev--Congratulations
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Bev,
Congratulations to your recent marriage.
On the other point, yes moving in and out of Canada and Mexico for business
reasons is much more difficult than for any other countries worldwide. You
learn that you have to choose your words very carefullyn at the border.
Werner
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:01:34 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Rust Removal
X-To: "<Peter George Duncan>" <[log in to unmask]>
Had a drinking problem once (now it's a simple pleasure) way beck when I
worked for Coors. Problem certainly did not involve Coke. Hell, everyone had
the same problem working in a brewery what with beer breaks allowed at 1000,
1200, and 2400. Actually some of my more creative engineering work improved
after thse episodes. It was the ride back up the the 8th floor engineering
space that was the problem. We used what was called a manlift to get there.
This thing was nothing more than a conveyor belt running vertical. No fear,
just hung on tight.
About the same time, I was a bad motorcikle racer. Bad as in not too good.
Once, while working on one of my dirt bikes, I forgot I put gas in one of my
beer cans. You can guess the rest. Mind still sharp after that though.
Would add some technical content here but don't know much anymore. Wait!
concerning touch up. I certainly advocate minimizing it. Those little chip
devices don't like it much. And, there must be something going on with IMC
stuff. No that's not right because Werner says so and I believe him.
Still sharp after all that, but what a wasted message.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:05:57 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RESIN RECESSION
X-To: Jin Rong Ye <[log in to unmask]>
SLL45ssslcktih67laldll.
Translated, this means no one knows what causes it precisely. Going way back
with Boeing, and a nice guy named Phil Tjele (can't remember last name
spelling but rhymes with jelly), he spent considerable time studying the
phenomonon and concluded, as did many others, we don't know what causes it.
What does IPC 600 say aboutit? Look it up please and tell us.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:15:45 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Not technical - so delete before reading if not inclined
X-To: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Now Bev, doesn't that feel better. The whole planet now knows you are
married, to a woman this time, that you are a guy, and Chris is a gal. Steve
and Rudy can now relax as well. You should have done this years ago but I
think you liked the confusion it caused.
Still don't know for what Bev is short. I mean, as long as we're getting
deep into Bev's personal life now, I might as well pose the question. My
money is on Bevard. Any other takers?
And, concerning this message's technical content, I echo Mike Fenner's
comments to me off line about everything eventually turns to plastic. I
can't remember the question but I think it started with rust and went
downhill from there.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:20:31 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: How many times can PCB pass through oven
X-To: "Joseph H. Smith" <[log in to unmask]>
Obviously, far more knowledgeable people than me can speak to long term
solder joint reliability. Concerning the MLB, the more times you thermally
stress the structur, the more oxidation (both metals and materials) is
effected. Therefore, innerlaminar bond strength as well as foil bond
strengths are reduced.
Earl Moon
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:33:04 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Chris Gifford <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Not technical - so delete before reading if not inclined
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Earl,
In a kingdom far, far away - from which many of our ancestors originate -
the man's name Beverley is quite common. Being that many Canadians are of
English, Scottish and Irish decent, it only makes sense that some of them
would inherit the names of their ancestry. Of course, most Americans can't
deal with that. I was showing wedding pictures here at work and Bev's
brother was in one picture. A good friend of mine asked, "What's his name,
Shirley?" Cute.
Sincerely,
Chris Christian
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Earl Moon
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 8:16 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Not technical - so delete before reading if not
inclined
Now Bev, doesn't that feel better. The whole planet now knows you are
married, to a woman this time, that you are a guy, and Chris is a gal. Steve
and Rudy can now relax as well. You should have done this years ago but I
think you liked the confusion it caused.
Still don't know for what Bev is short. I mean, as long as we're getting
deep into Bev's personal life now, I might as well pose the question. My
money is on Bevard. Any other takers?
And, concerning this message's technical content, I echo Mike Fenner's
comments to me off line about everything eventually turns to plastic. I
can't remember the question but I think it started with rust and went
downhill from there.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:38:24 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Not technical - so delete before reading if not inclined
X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
AHHHHHH! EARL!
Will you stop already!
What do you mean "this time"?! You make is sound like I was once "married"
to another guy, WHICH IS NOT TRUE. With regards to my number of
chromosomes, I think I have made this clear at least twice in this forum.
What I am really concerned about right now is component manufacturers, who
in their rush to be lead free, have resorted to using thick, 100% silver
lead finishes. Have any of the rest of you run into this recently?!
regards,
Beverley Christian
Research in Motion
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 5, 2001 8:16 AM
To: [log in to unmask]; Bev Christian
Subject: Re: Not technical - so delete before reading if not inclined
Now Bev, doesn't that feel better. The whole planet now knows you are
married, to a woman this time, that you are a guy, and Chris is a gal. Steve
and Rudy can now relax as well. You should have done this years ago but I
think you liked the confusion it caused.
Still don't know for what Bev is short. I mean, as long as we're getting
deep into Bev's personal life now, I might as well pose the question. My
money is on Bevard. Any other takers?
And, concerning this message's technical content, I echo Mike Fenner's
comments to me off line about everything eventually turns to plastic. I
can't remember the question but I think it started with rust and went
downhill from there.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:39:04 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Not technical - so delete before reading if not inclined
X-To: Christine Gifford <[log in to unmask]>
Chris,
Before I get wierd again, warmest congratulations. I, as many of us, know of
you at Indium. Now we know you a little more personally and are glad.
Yes, In a land far away (one in which you might imagine I lived - hence the
name MoonMan) a young man learned a lot about pot stirring. Actually it was
more a gift to be sharred (I never could spell that word) with so many
others. I won't go down this path farther, but it is good to see the "little
woman" coming to here husband's defense so early in a marital relationship.
Beverly it is and great to hear the story behind the name. Now, no more
mysteries exist. Shame that!
As for the technical content of this message, I want to say how much I like
your solder pastes. I never had a problem with your SMQ types. Anything new
now or on the horizon? Haven't soldered anything much in over a year now.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:04:13 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Sewell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Rust Removal
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Speaking of Naval Jelly and things automotive, they do sell a rust converter
that is supposed to tranform rust into a blend of "magnetite, and other inert
substances..." You can shape and paint over the resulting black mess where
your rust was/is. Just do a web search.
Dunno if this has been mentioned or helps,
Mike Sewell
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2>Speaking of Naval Jelly and things automotive, they do sell a rust converter that is supposed to tranform rust into a blend of "magnetite, and other inert substances..." You can shape and paint over the resulting black mess where your rust was/is. Just do a web search.<BR>
<BR>
Dunno if this has been mentioned or helps,<BR>
Mike Sewell</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:57:38 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Not technical - so delete before reading if not inclined
Now Bev,
Thanks to your wonderful bride, all your secrets are exposed. Therfore, no
need, on my part, to continue. I cease but must say I got what I wanted and
no longer is there any more confusion.
I'm following along on this silver thing. I'm just a little surprised the
practice is happening but I've been away from soldering processes much too
long. Hope you find your answers affecting us all. Sounds like Werner really
has been down this path as well.
Enjoy,
Early Moon (Actually Earl E. Moon)
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:04:12 -0000
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Fenner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Rust Removal
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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RE: [TN] Rust RemovalYou can demonstrate its effectiveness easily by
brightening a copper coin, adding a little washing up liquid to improve
wetting also converts Coke to a reasonable flux as the acid de-oxidises and
the sugar (by Fehlings reaction) keeps the metal deoxidises at soldering
temps, not for electronics use obviously.
Finally on this from me you may also be able to to show your children the
bad effects of too much coke by "borrowing" one of the teeth they leave
under their pillows for the tooth fairy. After a few weeks immersion the
tooth will disappear.
Best regards
Mike Fenner
Applications Engineer, European Operations
Indium Corporation
T: + 44 1908 580 400
M: + 44 7810 526 317
F: + 44 1908 580 411
E: [log in to unmask]
W: www.indium.com
Leadfree: http://Pb-Free.com
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Albin, David
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:04 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Rust Removal
Since Dave just mentioned it....
One thing you might actually try (depending on your article to be
de-rusted) is Coke itself....
It being a dilute phosphoric acid solution & all.
Just a thought
Regards,
David Albin
Coates Circuit Products
-----Original Message-----
From: David Hillman [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 04 December 2001 14:36
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Rust Removal
Hi Earl! One method of "removing" rust which hasn't been mentioned is
electrochemical reduction. It is expensive, time consuming and probably
wouldn't make sense for your application but it is one of the more common
methods used in marine artifact restoration. A good use example is the
restoration of the Hunley submarine.
Well, time for a Coke (or I could swipe one of Doug's Dews).
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/04/2001 07:55:04 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: Re: [TN] Rust Removal
Rudy, and others on and off line, I appreciate your input. I especially
like
Rudy's caution about what damage rust, and its removal, does to ferrous
surfaces.
I can't think of anything else about this subject/pot that deserves
stirring. However, I bet someone else can.
MoonMan
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<TITLE>RE: [TN] Rust Removal</TITLE>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial><SPAN =
class=3D791005513-05122001>You can=20
demonstrate its effectiveness easily by brightening a copper coin, =
adding a=20
little washing up liquid to improve wetting also converts Coke to a =
reasonable=20
flux as the acid de-oxidises and the sugar (by Fehlings reaction) keeps =
the=20
metal deoxidises at soldering temps, not for electronics use obviously.=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial><SPAN =
class=3D791005513-05122001>Finally on=20
this from me you may also be able to to show your children the bad =
effects of=20
too much coke by "borrowing" one of the teeth they leave under their =
pillows for=20
the tooth fairy. After a few weeks immersion the tooth will=20
disappear.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial>Best regards</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial>Mike Fenner</FONT> <BR><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial>Applications Engineer, European Operations</FONT> =
<BR><B><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial>Indium Corporation</FONT></B> <BR><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial> T: + 44 1908 580 400</FONT> <BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial>M: + 44 7810 526 317</FONT> <BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial> F: + 44 1908 580 411</FONT> <BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial> E: [log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial>W: www.indium.com<BR>Leadfree:<U> <A =
href=3D"http://pb-free.com/"=20
target=3D_blank>http://Pb-Free.com</A></U> </FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Albin, =
David<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:04 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Rust =
Removal<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Since Dave just mentioned it....</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>One thing you might actually try (depending on your =
article to=20
be de-rusted) is Coke itself....</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>It being a dilute phosphoric acid solution & =
all.</FONT>=20
</P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Just a thought</FONT> </P>
<P> <FONT =
size=3D2>Regards,</FONT>=20
<BR> <FONT size=3D2>David =
Albin</FONT>=20
<BR> <FONT size=3D2>Coates =
Circuit=20
Products</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>From: David=20
Hillman [<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:ddhillma@ROCKWELLCOLL=
INS.COM</A>]</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>Sent: 04 December 2001 14:36</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>To:=20
[log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Subject: Re: [TN] Rust =
Removal</FONT>=20
</P><BR>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Hi Earl! One method of "removing" rust which hasn't =
been=20
mentioned is</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>electrochemical reduction. It =
is=20
expensive, time consuming and probably</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>wouldn't make=20
sense for your application but it is one of the more common</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>methods used in marine artifact restoration. A good use =
example is=20
the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>restoration of the Hunley =
submarine.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Well, time for a Coke (or I could swipe one of =
Doug's=20
Dews).</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Dave Hillman</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Rockwell =
Collins</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT size=3D2>[log in to unmask]</FONT> =
</P><BR><BR><BR>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on =
12/04/2001=20
07:55:04 AM</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."=20
<[log in to unmask]></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Sent by: TechNet =
<[log in to unmask]></FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT size=3D2>To: [log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>cc:</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Subject: Re: [TN] Rust Removal</FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Rudy, and others on and off line, I appreciate your =
input. I=20
especially</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>like</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>Rudy's caution=20
about what damage rust, and its removal, does to ferrous</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
size=3D2>surfaces.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>I can't think of anything else about this =
subject/pot that=20
deserves</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>stirring. However, I bet someone =
else=20
can.</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>MoonMan</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT=20
=
size=3D2>----------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------</FONT>=20
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:27:53 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Autocad sharing
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You may want to look at Intellicad. I haven't used it, but some in our
company have. It is supposed to be quite compatible with Autocad.
Genny.
-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Watson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 4, 2001 3:52 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Autocad sharing
Dear Technetters,
Does anyone know of a sharing software that allows users to share Autocad LT
or 14 on a Novell network? We only have 9 licenses available and many more
people than that who need to use Autocad, though some like myself only need
it occasionally. I believe that a share software would only allow 9 users
access at one time.
If there is no such beast, is there a recommendation for a cheaper CAD
package than AutoCAD LT, or one that is a free download? Needless to say,
spending is getting really tight. Thanks in advance for the advice.
Howard Watson
Manufacturing Engineer
AMETEK/Dixson
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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=343222614-05122001>You
may want to look at Intellicad. I haven't used it, but some in our company
have. It is supposed to be quite compatible with
Autocad.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=343222614-05122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=343222614-05122001>Genny.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Howard Watson
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> December 4, 2001 3:52
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Autocad
sharing<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Dear
Technetters,</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Does anyone know of a
sharing software that allows users to share Autocad LT or 14 on a Novell
network? We only have 9 licenses available and many more people than
that who need to use Autocad, though some like myself only need it
occasionally. I believe that a share software would only allow 9 users
access at one time.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>If there is no
such beast, is there a recommendation for a cheaper CAD package than AutoCAD
LT, or one that is a free download? Needless to say, spending is getting
really tight. Thanks in advance for the advice.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2>Howard Watson<BR>Manufacturing
Engineer<BR>AMETEK/Dixson</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:34:09 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Autocad sharing
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Howard,
=20
There is a package available from AutoDesk for running as a network
application. Now that you have "let the cat out of the bag" about
having more users than licenses I would be careful about your solution
as the Software Police are on the prowl. Several months ago there was a
huge media campaign with radio spots (and TV ads?) about running illegal
software in the Boston area. The cost of the legal copies or network
license (one for each user) is cheaper than the fines and penalties
levied by the Software Police.
=20
All it takes is one phone call from a disgruntled employee or other
person seeking to damage your company. (I will not call !)
=20
An alternative solution for your CAD needs is IntelliCAD=AE 2000 for
Microsoft Windows by IntelliCAD Technology Consortium. This can be
found at www.cadopia.com. We have purchased this for the same reason
you want to share AutoCAD. One caution is that, I noticed as an
accomplished AutoCAD user, I found many commands or control functions
the same, but there were a few that defied explanation.
=20
Phil Nutting=20
=20
[Phil Nutting] -----Original Message-----
From: Howard Watson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:52 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Autocad sharing
Dear Technetters,=20
Does anyone know of a sharing software that allows users to share
Autocad LT or 14 on a Novell network? We only have 9 licenses available
and many more people than that who need to use Autocad, though some like
myself only need it occasionally. I believe that a share software would
only allow 9 users access at one time.=20
If there is no such beast, is there a recommendation for a cheaper CAD
package than AutoCAD LT, or one that is a free download? Needless to
say, spending is getting really tight. Thanks in advance for the
advice.=20
Howard Watson
Manufacturing Engineer
AMETEK/Dixson
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Howard,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>There=20
is a package available from AutoDesk for running as a network =
application. =20
Now that you have "let the cat out of the bag" about having more users =
than=20
licenses I would be careful about your solution as the Software Police =
are on=20
the prowl. Several months ago there was a huge media campaign with =
radio=20
spots (and TV ads?) about running illegal software in the Boston =
area. The=20
cost of the legal copies or network license (one for each user) is =
cheaper=20
than the fines and penalties levied by the Software =
Police.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>All it=20
takes is one phone call from a disgruntled employee or other person =
seeking to=20
damage your company. (I will not call !)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>An=20
alternative solution for your CAD needs is IntelliCAD=AE 2000 for =
Microsoft=20
Windows by IntelliCAD Technology Consortium. This can be =
found at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.cadopia.com">www.cadopia.com</A>. We have =
purchased this=20
for the same reason you want to share AutoCAD. One caution is that, I =
noticed as=20
an accomplished AutoCAD user, I found many commands or control functions =
the=20
same, but there were a few that defied explanation.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Phil=20
Nutting</FONT> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001></SPAN><FONT =
face=3DTahoma><BR><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff>[Phil=20
Nutting] </FONT></SPAN>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
Howard Watson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, =
December 04, 2001 4:52 PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN]=20
Autocad sharing<BR><BR></FONT></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Dear =
Technetters,</FONT>=20
<BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Does anyone know of a sharing =
software=20
that allows users to share Autocad LT or 14 on a Novell network? =
We only=20
have 9 licenses available and many more people than that who need to =
use=20
Autocad, though some like myself only need it occasionally. I =
believe=20
that a share software would only allow 9 users access at one =
time.</FONT>=20
<BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>If there is no such beast, is =
there a=20
recommendation for a cheaper CAD package than AutoCAD LT, or one that =
is a=20
free download? Needless to say, spending is getting really =
tight.=20
Thanks in advance for the advice.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D2>Howard Watson<BR>Manufacturing=20
Engineer<BR>AMETEK/Dixson</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:38:51 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Manual Soldering vs. Automatic Soldering
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Alejandro,
=20
I can't state chapter and verse of the IPC standard 610, but I remember
that it clearly states something to the affect of 'resoldering a joint
for the sake of making it look good may cause more damage to the solder
joint than leaving it alone.'
=20
Phil Nutting
-----Original Message-----
From: Becerra Alejandro [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:19 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Manual Soldering vs. Automatic Soldering
Hello to All,=20
One product request a 100% touch up in several joints because of safety.
We are considering doing this process by manual soldering or using
automatic soldering (robot).=20
What are the advantage and disadvantage of both procedures?=20
Where can I find a comparison between them?=20
Is there any reliability issue in using manual soldering?=20
Any help will be greatly appreciated=20
Alejandro Becerra=20
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<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
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<TITLE>Manual Soldering vs. Automatic Soldering</TITLE>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D760343614-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Alejandro,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D760343614-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D760343614-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I=20
can't state chapter and verse of the IPC standard 610, but I remember =
that it=20
clearly states something to the affect of 'resoldering a joint for the =
sake of=20
making it look good may cause more damage to the solder joint than =
leaving it=20
alone.'</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D760343614-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D760343614-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Phil=20
Nutting</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Becerra Alejandro=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 04, 2001 =
9:19=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Manual =
Soldering vs.=20
Automatic Soldering<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello to All,</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One product request a 100% touch up in =
several=20
joints because of safety.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We =
are=20
considering doing this process by manual soldering or using automatic=20
soldering (robot).</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What are the =
advantage=20
and disadvantage of both procedures?</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Where=20
can I find a comparison between them?</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Is=20
there any reliability issue in using manual soldering?</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any help will be greatly =
appreciated</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Alejandro Becerra</FONT>=20
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:45:32 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Other lead finishes -- response to Bev
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For starters -- congrats to you and Chris and best wishes for a long =
and
happy union!
I've been experiencing some soldering challenges these days with a =
myriad of
component lead surface finishes.
One inquiry to an inductor mfr "what is the base metal and surface =
finish"
yeilded a response "platinum/palladium/silver". Typically, I've been
seeing, outside of TI's Palladium, Sn80Pb20 and Sn85Pb15 platings but =
none
(to my knowledge) have been 100% silver.
My initial recourse was to revamp each reflow profile for a higher =
reflow
temp (230=B0C) and longer dwell time (upwards to 60 sec) coupled with =
standard
Sn62 solder paste (although I would prefer to have the Sn62 with Sb).
As was mentioned during the infamous "IMC string", the CuAg =
intermetallics
are definitely something to not be overlooked -- as you know more on =
this
subject than I.
If I come across any peculiar finishes, I'll keep you posted.
Regards,
Steve Sauer
-----Original Message-----
What I am really concerned about right now is component manufacturers, =
who
in their rush to be lead free, have resorted to using thick, 100% =
silver
lead finishes. Have any of the rest of you run into this recently?!
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:30:05 +0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Eric Christison <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: STMicroelectronics
Subject: Re: Autocad sharing
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One other thing that may be worth consideration.
There are a number of shareware/freeware packages that allow you to view
AutoCad drawings. Perhaps many of your occasional users only want a
viewing facility.
If so, check out the Autodesk web site there's a section there on
downloads.
Regards,
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> Howard,There is a package available from AutoDesk for running as a
> network application. Now that you have "let the cat out of the bag"
> about having more users than licenses I would be careful about your
> solution as the Software Police are on the prowl. Several months ago
> there was a huge media campaign with radio spots (and TV ads?) about
> running illegal software in the Boston area. The cost of the legal
> copies or network license (one for each user) is cheaper than the
> fines and penalties levied by the Software Police.All it takes is one
> phone call from a disgruntled employee or other person seeking to
> damage your company. (I will not call !)An alternative solution for
> your CAD needs is IntelliCAD® 2000 for Microsoft Windows by IntelliCAD
> Technology Consortium. This can be found at www.cadopia.com. We have
> purchased this for the same reason you want to share AutoCAD. One
> caution is that, I noticed as an accomplished AutoCAD user, I found
> many commands or control functions the same, but there were a few that
> defied explanation.Phil Nutting
> [Phil Nutting] -----Original Message-----
> From: Howard Watson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:52 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Autocad sharing
>
>
>
> Dear Technetters,
>
> Does anyone know of a sharing software that allows users to
> share Autocad LT or 14 on a Novell network? We only have 9
> licenses available and many more people than that who need
> to use Autocad, though some like myself only need it
> occasionally. I believe that a share software would only
> allow 9 users access at one time.
>
> If there is no such beast, is there a recommendation for a
> cheaper CAD package than AutoCAD LT, or one that is a free
> download? Needless to say, spending is getting really
> tight. Thanks in advance for the advice.
>
> Howard Watson
> Manufacturing Engineer
> AMETEK/Dixson
>
--
Eric Christison
Mechanical Engineer
STMicroelectronics
33 Pinkhill
Edinburgh
EH12 7BF
Tel: (0)131 336 6165
Fax: (0)131 336 6001
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:03:03 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Autocad sharing
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I think you can actually download Intellicad for free if you just want =
to
use the package, www.intellicad.org <http://www.intellicad.org> , just =
join
as a non-commercial member. If you want the source code to modify it =
to
your own purpose, or if you buy it from some company that has done that
already, then you may have to pay.
=20
I really don't think Howard was broadcasting that he is using illegal
software - we have a 10 user hunting license for Autocad LT in our
workplace. Most people that use Autocad around here are not using it =
100%
of the time. So there are up to 10 licenses available. When 10 copies =
are
open, no one else can open Autocad. As we grow bigger this is starting =
to
become a slight problem, because additional licenses cost an arm and a =
leg,
so we are sticking with our current number of licenses, and not =
everyone
gets on whenever they want anymore. =20
=20
Regards,
Genny.
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 5, 2001 8:34 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Autocad sharing
Howard,
=20
There is a package available from AutoDesk for running as a network
application. Now that you have "let the cat out of the bag" about =
having
more users than licenses I would be careful about your solution as the
Software Police are on the prowl. Several months ago there was a huge =
media
campaign with radio spots (and TV ads?) about running illegal software =
in
the Boston area. The cost of the legal copies or network license (one =
for
each user) is cheaper than the fines and penalties levied by the =
Software
Police.
=20
All it takes is one phone call from a disgruntled employee or other =
person
seeking to damage your company. (I will not call !)
=20
An alternative solution for your CAD needs is IntelliCAD=AE 2000 for =
Microsoft
Windows by IntelliCAD Technology Consortium. This can be found at
www.cadopia.com <http://www.cadopia.com> . We have purchased this for =
the
same reason you want to share AutoCAD. One caution is that, I noticed =
as an
accomplished AutoCAD user, I found many commands or control functions =
the
same, but there were a few that defied explanation.
=20
Phil Nutting=20
=20
[Phil Nutting] -----Original Message-----
From: Howard Watson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:52 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Autocad sharing
Dear Technetters,=20
Does anyone know of a sharing software that allows users to share =
Autocad LT
or 14 on a Novell network? We only have 9 licenses available and many =
more
people than that who need to use Autocad, though some like myself only =
need
it occasionally. I believe that a share software would only allow 9 =
users
access at one time.=20
If there is no such beast, is there a recommendation for a cheaper CAD
package than AutoCAD LT, or one that is a free download? Needless to =
say,
spending is getting really tight. Thanks in advance for the advice.=20
Howard Watson
Manufacturing Engineer
AMETEK/Dixson
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D144334614-05122001>I=20
think you can actually download Intellicad for free if you just =
want to use=20
the package, <A=20
href=3D"http://www.intellicad.org">www.intellicad.org</A>, just =
join as a=20
non-commercial member. If you want the source code to modify it =
to your=20
own purpose, or if you buy it from some company that has done that =
already, then=20
you may have to pay.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D144334614-05122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D144334614-05122001>I=20
really don't think Howard was broadcasting that he is using illegal =
software -=20
we have a 10 user hunting license for Autocad LT in our =
workplace. Most=20
people that use Autocad around here are not using it 100% of the =
time. So=20
there are up to 10 licenses available. When 10 copies are open, =
no one=20
else can open Autocad. As we grow bigger this is starting to =
become a=20
slight problem, because additional licenses cost an arm and a leg, so =
we are=20
sticking with our current number of licenses, and not everyone gets on =
whenever=20
they want anymore. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D144334614-05122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D144334614-05122001>Regards,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D144334614-05122001>Genny.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Phil Nutting=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> December 5, 2001 =
8:34=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Autocad=20
sharing<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Howard,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>There is a package available from AutoDesk for running as a =
network=20
application. Now that you have "let the cat out of the bag" =
about having=20
more users than licenses I would be careful about your solution as =
the=20
Software Police are on the prowl. Several months ago there was =
a huge=20
media campaign with radio spots (and TV ads?) about running illegal =
software=20
in the Boston area. The cost of the legal copies or network=20
license (one for each user) is cheaper than the fines and =
penalties=20
levied by the Software Police.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>All=20
it takes is one phone call from a disgruntled employee or other =
person seeking=20
to damage your company. (I will not call !)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>An=20
alternative solution for your CAD needs is IntelliCAD=AE 2000 for =
Microsoft=20
Windows by IntelliCAD Technology Consortium. This can be =
found at=20
<A href=3D"http://www.cadopia.com">www.cadopia.com</A>. We have =
purchased=20
this for the same reason you want to share AutoCAD. One caution is =
that, I=20
noticed as an accomplished AutoCAD user, I found many commands or =
control=20
functions the same, but there were a few that defied=20
explanation.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>Phil=20
Nutting</FONT> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001></SPAN><FONT =
face=3DTahoma><BR><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D728551514-05122001><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial>[Phil=20
Nutting] </FONT></SPAN>-----Original =
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
Howard Watson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> =
Tuesday,=20
December 04, 2001 4:52 PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
[TN] Autocad sharing<BR><BR></FONT></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Dear =
Technetters,</FONT>=20
<BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Does anyone know of a =
sharing software=20
that allows users to share Autocad LT or 14 on a Novell network? =
We=20
only have 9 licenses available and many more people than that who =
need to=20
use Autocad, though some like myself only need it occasionally. =
I=20
believe that a share software would only allow 9 users access at =
one=20
time.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>If there is =
no such beast,=20
is there a recommendation for a cheaper CAD package than AutoCAD =
LT, or one=20
that is a free download? Needless to say, spending is getting =
really=20
tight. Thanks in advance for the advice.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Howard Watson<BR>Manufacturing=20
=
Engineer<BR>AMETEK/Dixson</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>=
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:18:04 -0800
Reply-To: Greg Triggs <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Greg Triggs <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Hydrogen Peroxide vs. Sodium Chlorate
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Hello
Any thoughts about the use of Hydrogen Peroxide versus =
Sodium Chlorate for the oxidizer in Cupric etching? Better ? Worse ? Why =
? Thank you.
[log in to unmask]
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p; =20
Any thoughts about the use of Hydrogen Peroxide versus Sodium Chlorate =
for the=20
oxidizer in Cupric etching? Better ? Worse ? Why ? Thank =
you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A></FONT></DIV=
>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:32:03 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Not technical - so delete before reading if not inclined
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
anybody that watches old english movies on tv knows it's beverly.
phil
...Still don't know for what Bev is short. I mean, as long as we're getting
deep into Bev's personal life now, I might as well pose the question. My
money is on Bevard. Any other takers?...
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:52:30 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Joseph Fjelstad <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RESIN RECESSION
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Hello Kevin,
As Earl has noted, Boeing did an in depth study on resin recession a little
over 20 years ago and concluded that while the condition was undesirable
there was no apparent reliability issue so long as plating integrity was
intact. No definable failure that could be assigned to the phenomena.
However, if I recall correctly, limits were set at the time to a number
roughly equal to the average amount of resin found on a hole wall. (~60%). I
don't know if this is still a working number.
I was working at Boeing at the time and a colleague Dr. Alan Smith lead a
team that did a solid study of the subject. Phil Tjelle was manager of the MR&
D group and was point man for Boeing in reporting the results and working
with the military and industry standards groups to get the problem classified
and resolved.
The effect appeared to be related to the degree of cure or completeness of
cross linking in the resin and was most evident after thermal stress testing.
Apparently the problem got the attention of the laminate suppliers and they
improved their resins as it is something that is rarely seen in cross section
anymore.
I would note also that it is possible that resin recession might sometimes
reported as hole wall pull away and hole wall pull away as resin recession as
they can look somewhat the same to the untrained eye but the mechanisms are
very different.
I believe that the IPC board acceptance specs cover the subject. Werner and a
few others here will likely have memories of this effect as well.
Kind regards,
Joe
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hello Kevin,
<BR>
<BR>As Earl has noted, Boeing did an in depth study on resin recession a little over 20 years ago and concluded that while the condition was undesirable there was no apparent reliability issue so long as plating integrity was intact. No definable failure that could be assigned to the phenomena. However, if I recall correctly, limits were set at the time to a number roughly equal to the average amount of resin found on a hole wall. (~60%). I don't know if this is still a working number.
<BR>
<BR>I was working at Boeing at the time and a colleague Dr. Alan Smith lead a team that did a solid study of the subject. Phil Tjelle was manager of the MR&D group and was point man for Boeing in reporting the results and working with the military and industry standards groups to get the problem classified and resolved.
<BR>
<BR>The effect appeared to be related to the degree of cure or completeness of cross linking in the resin and was most evident after thermal stress testing. Apparently the problem got the attention of the laminate suppliers and they improved their resins as it is something that is rarely seen in cross section anymore.
<BR>
<BR>I would note also that it is possible that resin recession might sometimes reported as hole wall pull away and hole wall pull away as resin recession as they can look somewhat the same to the untrained eye but the mechanisms are very different.
<BR>
<BR>I believe that the IPC board acceptance specs cover the subject. Werner and a few others here will likely have memories of this effect as well.
<BR>
<BR>Kind regards,
<BR>Joe </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:59:39 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Conductive epoxy..
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Hi All!!
I was wondering if anybody knows of a good silver filled liquid conductive
epoxy that has the same sort of conductivy as that of Ablefilm 5025E...I'm
gonna do some searching myself, but I thought that I'd ask the experts
first...
Thanks!
-Steve Gregory-
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi All!!
<BR>
<BR>I was wondering if anybody knows of a good silver filled liquid conductive epoxy that has the same sort of conductivy as that of Ablefilm 5025E...I'm gonna do some searching myself, but I thought that I'd ask the experts first...
<BR>
<BR>Thanks!
<BR>
<BR>-Steve Gregory-</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:54:31 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Rick Howieson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RESIN RECESSION
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Earl,
Are you asking what causes resin recession? If so, it scares me the fellow
from BOEING couldn't figure it out. It occurrs in the board fab process
during the removal of resin smear after drill. There are two ways I'm
familiar with. One using permanganate (chemical), two using plasma. If left
in too long the resin is removed back into laminate potentially causing
dielectric spacing problems.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 6:06 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] RESIN RECESSION
SLL45ssslcktih67laldll.
Translated, this means no one knows what causes it precisely. Going way back
with Boeing, and a nice guy named Phil Tjele (can't remember last name
spelling but rhymes with jelly), he spent considerable time studying the
phenomonon and concluded, as did many others, we don't know what causes it.
What does IPC 600 say aboutit? Look it up please and tell us.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:06:24 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Bissonnette, Jean-Francois" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Anyone knows about IR Inspection?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
HI all,
Last August, I read about IR inspection equipment in the "Test and
Measurement word" magazine.
I think it's manufactured by a company called Advanced Research Technologies
in Montreal.
Anyone knows about it? Is it good, expensive. Anyone in this forum use it
on day to day basis.............
Well you know... the works...!
....didn't I see someone for ART in this forum?...
Thanks in advance!
Jean-Francois
WABTEC CORPORATION CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE
The content contained in this e-mail transmission is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named herein. If the reader of this transmission is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this transmission is strictly prohibited.
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:07:26 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bill Christoffel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Conductive epoxy..
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Steve,
If you don't mind a two part material, good old H20E from Epoxy
Technology Inc. (Epo-tek) is by far the most robust material I have used
to date. Resistively is spec'd at >.0004 ohm-cm.
=20
Bill C.
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen R. Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Conductive epoxy..
Hi All!!=20
I was wondering if anybody knows of a good silver filled liquid
conductive epoxy that has the same sort of conductivy as that of
Ablefilm 5025E...I'm gonna do some searching myself, but I thought that
I'd ask the experts first...=20
Thanks!=20
-Steve Gregory-=20
------_=_NextPart_001_01C17DA6.EEC055F0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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<HTML><HEAD>
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D807270116-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Steve,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D807270116-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>If you=20
don't mind a two part material, good old H20E from Epoxy Technology Inc. =
(Epo-tek) is by far the most robust material I have used to date.=20
Resistively is spec'd at >.0004 ohm-cm.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D807270116-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D807270116-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Bill=20
C.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D807270116-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Stephen R. Gregory =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 05, =
2001 10:00=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Conductive=20
epoxy..<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2>Hi All!!=20
<BR><BR>I was wondering if anybody knows of a good silver filled =
liquid=20
conductive epoxy that has the same sort of conductivy as that of =
Ablefilm=20
5025E...I'm gonna do some searching myself, but I thought that I'd ask =
the=20
experts first... <BR><BR>Thanks! <BR><BR>-Steve Gregory-</FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:10:53 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Conductive epoxy..
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Steve,
=20
We use a product (40-3905) by Epoxies Etc. http://www.epoxies.com/ that
works for our application. They may have a match. We also found these
folks to be very responsive.
=20
I'm sure Loctite has something too.
=20
Phil Nutting
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen R. Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 11:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Conductive epoxy..
Hi All!!=20
I was wondering if anybody knows of a good silver filled liquid
conductive epoxy that has the same sort of conductivy as that of
Ablefilm 5025E...I'm gonna do some searching myself, but I thought that
I'd ask the experts first...=20
Thanks!=20
-Steve Gregory-=20
------_=_NextPart_001_01C17DA7.6A0A521A
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D972260916-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Steve,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D972260916-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D972260916-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>We use=20
a product (40-3905) by Epoxies Etc. <A=20
href=3D"http://www.epoxies.com/">http://www.epoxies.com/</A> that =
works for=20
our application. They may have a match. We also found these =
folks to=20
be very responsive.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D972260916-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D972260916-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I'm=20
sure Loctite has something too.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D972260916-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D972260916-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Phil=20
Nutting</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Stephen R. Gregory =
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 05, =
2001 11:00=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Conductive=20
epoxy..<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2>Hi All!!=20
<BR><BR>I was wondering if anybody knows of a good silver filled =
liquid=20
conductive epoxy that has the same sort of conductivy as that of =
Ablefilm=20
5025E...I'm gonna do some searching myself, but I thought that I'd ask =
the=20
experts first... <BR><BR>Thanks! <BR><BR>-Steve Gregory-</FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C17DA7.6A0A521A--
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 08:55:32 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Howard Watson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Autocad sharing
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 005748AA87256B19_="
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
--=_alternative 005748AA87256B19_=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Genny,
Thanks for the information on IntelliCAD, I will give this a try. I had=20
previously stated that we have more people who need AutoCAD than we have=20
licenses for, and I was in no way implying that we are using illegal=20
software, so thanks for noting that. Our situation is just like yours in=20
that we have some (several?) casual users who would like to use AutoCAD,=20
but the cost is not attractive at this time. Is your "hunting license"=20
something that comes from Autodesk? How would this work for us=20
considering we already have the individual licenses purchased? The=20
situation you have sounds like where we want to get to, except the part=20
about not everybody can get on when they need it! I think we could live=20
with that.
Thank to all for your suggestions, I will look into all of them.
Howard Watson
Manufacturing Engineer
AMETEK/Dixson
Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
12/05/01 08:03 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."
=20
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:=20
Subject: Re: [TN] Autocad sharing
I think you can actually download Intellicad for free if you just want to=20
use the package, www.intellicad.org, just join as a non-commercial member. =
If you want the source code to=20
modify it to your own purpose, or if you buy it from some company that has =
done that already, then you may have to pay.
=20
I really don't think Howard was broadcasting that he is using illegal=20
software - we have a 10 user hunting license for Autocad LT in our=20
workplace. Most people that use Autocad around here are not using it 100% =
of the time. So there are up to 10 licenses available. When 10 copies=20
are open, no one else can open Autocad. As we grow bigger this is=20
starting to become a slight problem, because additional licenses cost an=20
arm and a leg, so we are sticking with our current number of licenses, and =
not everyone gets on whenever they want anymore.=20
=20
Regards,
Genny.
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 5, 2001 8:34 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Autocad sharing
Howard,
=20
There is a package available from AutoDesk for running as a network=20
application. Now that you have "let the cat out of the bag" about having=20
more users than licenses I would be careful about your solution as the=20
Software Police are on the prowl. Several months ago there was a huge=20
media campaign with radio spots (and TV ads?) about running illegal=20
software in the Boston area. The cost of the legal copies or network=20
license (one for each user) is cheaper than the fines and penalties levied =
by the Software Police.
=20
All it takes is one phone call from a disgruntled employee or other person =
seeking to damage your company. (I will not call !)
=20
An alternative solution for your CAD needs is IntelliCAD=AE 2000 for=20
Microsoft Windows by IntelliCAD Technology Consortium. This can be found=20
at www.cadopia.com. We have purchased this for the same reason you want to=
share AutoCAD.=20
One caution is that, I noticed as an accomplished AutoCAD user, I found=20
many commands or control functions the same, but there were a few that=20
defied explanation.
=20
Phil Nutting=20
=20
[Phil Nutting] -----Original Message-----
From: Howard Watson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:52 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Autocad sharing
Dear Technetters,=20
Does anyone know of a sharing software that allows users to share Autocad=20
LT or 14 on a Novell network? We only have 9 licenses available and many=20
more people than that who need to use Autocad, though some like myself=20
only need it occasionally. I believe that a share software would only=20
allow 9 users access at one time.=20
If there is no such beast, is there a recommendation for a cheaper CAD=20
package than AutoCAD LT, or one that is a free download? Needless to say, =
spending is getting really tight. Thanks in advance for the advice.=20
Howard Watson
Manufacturing Engineer
AMETEK/Dixson
--=_alternative 005748AA87256B19_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Genny,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Thanks for the information on Intell=
iCAD, I will give this a try. I had previously stated that we have mo=
re people who need AutoCAD than we have licenses for, and I was in no way i=
mplying that we are using illegal software, so thanks for noting that. &nbs=
p;Our situation is just like yours in that we have some (several?) casual u=
sers who would like to use AutoCAD, but the cost is not attractive at this =
time. Is your "hunting license" something that comes from =
Autodesk? How would this work for us considering we already have the =
individual licenses purchased? The situation you have sounds like whe=
re we want to get to, except the part about not everybody can get on when t=
hey need it! I think we could live with that.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Thank to all for your suggestions, I=
will look into all of them.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Howard Watson<br>
Manufacturing Engineer<br>
AMETEK/Dixson</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>Genny Gibbard <Genny.Gibbard@W=
AVECOM.CA></b></font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]
></font>
<p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">12/05/01 08:03 AM</font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Please respond to "TechNet E-Ma=
il Forum."</font>
<br>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"> To: &nbs=
p; [log in to unmask]</font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"> cc: &nbs=
p; </font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"> Subject:=
Re: [TN] Autocad sharing</font></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Arial">I think you can actually dow=
nload Intellicad for free if you just want to use the package, </font><a hr=
ef=3Dhttp://www.intellicad.org/><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Arial">=
<u>www.intellicad.org</u></font></a><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Ari=
al">, just join as a non-commercial member. If you want the source co=
de to modify it to your own purpose, or if you buy it from some company tha=
t has done that already, then you may have to pay.</font>
<br><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Arial">I really don't think Howard =
was broadcasting that he is using illegal software - we have a 10 user hunt=
ing license for Autocad LT in our workplace. Most people that use Aut=
ocad around here are not using it 100% of the time. So there are up t=
o 10 licenses available. When 10 copies are open, no one else can ope=
n Autocad. As we grow bigger this is starting to become a slight prob=
lem, because additional licenses cost an arm and a leg, so we are sticking =
with our current number of licenses, and not everyone gets on whenever they=
want anymore. </font>
<br><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Arial">Regards,</font>
<br><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Arial">Genny.</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<b><br>
From:</b> Phil Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<b><br>
Sent:</b> December 5, 2001 8:34 AM<b><br>
To:</b> [log in to unmask]<b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [TN] Autocad sharing<br>
</font>
<br><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Arial">Howard,</font>
<br><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Arial">There is a package available=
from AutoDesk for running as a network application. Now that you hav=
e "let the cat out of the bag" about having more users than licen=
ses I would be careful about your solution as the Software Police are on th=
e prowl. Several months ago there was a huge media campaign with radi=
o spots (and TV ads?) about running illegal software in the Boston area. &n=
bsp;The cost of the legal copies or network license (one for each user) is =
cheaper than the fines and penalties levied by the Software Police.</font>
<br><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Arial">All it takes is one phone ca=
ll from a disgruntled employee or other person seeking to damage your compa=
ny. (I will not call !)</font>
<br><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Arial">An alternative solution for =
your CAD needs is IntelliCAD=AE 2000 for Microsoft Windows by IntelliCAD Te=
chnology Consortium. This can be found at </font><a href=3Dhttp://www=
.cadopia.com/><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Arial"><u>www.cadopia.com=
</u></font></a><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Arial">. We have p=
urchased this for the same reason you want to share AutoCAD. One caution is=
that, I noticed as an accomplished AutoCAD user, I found many commands or =
control functions the same, but there were a few that defied explanation.</=
font>
<br><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Arial">Phil Nutting</font><font siz=
e=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> </font>
<br><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Arial"><br>
[Phil Nutting] </font><font size=3D2 face=3D"Tahoma">-----Original Me=
ssage-----<b><br>
From:</b> Howard Watson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<b><br>
Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:52 PM<b><br>
To:</b> [log in to unmask]<b><br>
Subject:</b> [TN] Autocad sharing<br>
</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
Dear Technetters,</font><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> <br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
Does anyone know of a sharing software that allows users to share Autocad L=
T or 14 on a Novell network? We only have 9 licenses available and ma=
ny more people than that who need to use Autocad, though some like myself o=
nly need it occasionally. I believe that a share software would only =
allow 9 users access at one time.</font><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Ro=
man"> <br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
If there is no such beast, is there a recommendation for a cheaper CAD pack=
age than AutoCAD LT, or one that is a free download? Needless to say,=
spending is getting really tight. Thanks in advance for the advice.<=
/font><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"> <br>
</font><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
Howard Watson<br>
Manufacturing Engineer<br>
AMETEK/Dixson</font>
<br>
<br>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:31:17 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Charlton <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mark Charlton <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: MSI of Central Florida, Inc.
Subject: Small PCBs in wash
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C17D80.5B093320"
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We're experiencing some damage to some small PCB's (0.75"x1.75") that
occurs during their trip through the aqueous cleaner. The boards are
originally processed in a panel but some require rework or additional
processing once they have been depanelized.
=20
Can anyone suggest a method to secure these small boards inside the =
wash
racks as to prevent this damage?
=20
Mark Charlton
=20
=20
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C17D80.5B093320
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We're experiencing some damage to some =
small PCB's=20
(0.75"x1.75") that occurs during their trip through the aqueous =
cleaner. =20
The boards are originally processed in a panel but some require rework =
or=20
additional processing once they have been depanelized.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can anyone suggest a method to =
secure these=20
small boards inside the wash racks as to prevent this =
damage?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark Charlton</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:23:11 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Brian L. Guidi" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Conductive epoxy..
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Steve,
You may also want to check out Epo-Tek's product line. The H20-E is a
silver filled epoxy
which we use occasionally.
Brian Guidi
Product Engineer
Teledyne Electronic Technologies
Tel: (603) 889-6191 X:310
Fax: (603) 886-2977
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
"Stephen R.
Gregory" To: [log in to unmask]
<SteveZeva@AO cc:
L.COM> Subject: [TN] Conductive epoxy..
Sent by:
TechNet
<[log in to unmask]
ORG>
12/05/01
10:59 AM
Please
respond to
"TechNet
E-Mail
Forum."
Hi All!!
I was wondering if anybody knows of a good silver filled liquid conductive
epoxy that has the same sort of conductivy as that of Ablefilm 5025E...I'm
gonna do some searching myself, but I thought that I'd ask the experts
first...
Thanks!
-Steve Gregory-
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:48:23 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jason Gregory <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Small PCBs in wash
X-To: [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Use baskets. I'll let Steve Z. or Moonman jump in since I can't remember =
who makes 'em.
Jason Gregory
Software Specialist - NPI Group
SCI Systems/Plant 2
13000 S. Memorial Pkwy.
Huntsville, AL. 35803
(256) 882-4107 x3728
[log in to unmask]
>>> Mark Charlton <[log in to unmask]> 12/05/01 10:31AM >>>
We're experiencing some damage to some small PCB's (0.75"x1.75") that
occurs during their trip through the aqueous cleaner. The boards are
originally processed in a panel but some require rework or additional
processing once they have been depanelized.
=20
Can anyone suggest a method to secure these small boards inside the wash
racks as to prevent this damage?
=20
Mark Charlton
=20
=20
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:41:55 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RESIN RECESSION
Yes, I was working with the late great Dr. Paul Craven, then at Lamination
Technology Inc, when Phil came in and presented his findings, or lack
thereof, concerning the condition. IPC says in 3.1.8, Resin Recession:
Resin recession in a plated through hole is generally defined as a
separation between the plated barrel of the hole and the dielectric material
on the hole wall. It is acceptable for all classes after thermal stress
testing unless otherwise specified in the procurement documentation.
I think the phrase after thermal stress testing tells most of the story.
Also, IPC, as with many guidelines and acceptance criteria, emphasizes
unless otherwise specified in the procurement documentation. That too tells
a story about not necessarily knowing cause but leaving it to the customer
to make the decision concerning whether or not it is acceptable of cause for
rejection.
Earl Moon
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:49:44 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Gary McCauley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RESIN RECESSION
MIME-Version: 1.0
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That is not resin recession. That is "true" etchback if
also using a glass etch. Resin recession is resin that was
once attached to the hole wall and pulled away during a
thermal cycle. As pointed out earlier, it is sometimes
mistakenly called hole wall pullaway which is an entirely
different defect.
At one time I thought it was caused by the sectioning
technique or exotherm potting compounds, but was never
able to verify.
gary mccauley
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Howieson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 9:55 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] RESIN RECESSION
Earl,
Are you asking what causes resin recession? If so, it scares me the fellow
from BOEING couldn't figure it out. It occurrs in the board fab process
during the removal of resin smear after drill. There are two ways I'm
familiar with. One using permanganate (chemical), two using plasma. If left
in too long the resin is removed back into laminate potentially causing
dielectric spacing problems.
Rick
--
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:51:29 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SURFACE FINISHES
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
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TO Tech-Net:
As an advocate for ENIG for fine pitch designs, I am asking for input on
whether moving towards a silver product
is more efficient a performer at the assembly level. Finishes such as
Alpha Level have been available but have not
replaced the current slate that appears common; ie. white tin or ENIG.
Question: Are silver finishes more cost effective at the board
fabricator while at the same time being process friendly
at the assembler than ENIG or white tin? HASL is not one that I believe
will be an option much longer due to the
de-leading of the inductry so I have not included that choice.
I know the list as addressed facets of this issues in the past however
would appreciate any inputs.
Charlie McMahon.
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:46:25 -0500
Reply-To: Mark Charlton <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mark Charlton <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: MSI of Central Florida, Inc.
Subject: Re: Small PCBs in wash
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Sorry, I left out one important detail. They are in baskets, the thinnest
(so I'm told) available. Perhaps some kind of mat or other mesh inside the
basket? Has to be inexpensive.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: Small PCBs in wash
Use baskets. I'll let Steve Z. or Moonman jump in since I can't remember who
makes 'em.
Jason Gregory
Software Specialist - NPI Group
SCI Systems/Plant 2
13000 S. Memorial Pkwy.
Huntsville, AL. 35803
(256) 882-4107 x3728
[log in to unmask]
>>> Mark Charlton <[log in to unmask]> 12/05/01 10:31AM >>>
We're experiencing some damage to some small PCB's (0.75"x1.75") that
occurs during their trip through the aqueous cleaner. The boards are
originally processed in a panel but some require rework or additional
processing once they have been depanelized.
Can anyone suggest a method to secure these small boards inside the wash
racks as to prevent this damage?
Mark Charlton
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:53:57 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Autocad sharing
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Well, I don't know all the details, but unfortunately I'm not sure you'll be
able to get the same deal. We got this 10 user license a few years ago when
we went to AutoCad LT 98 and apparently we are not willing to upgrade to a
newer version of AutoCad LT because we can't get the same great deal. And
additional seats for the license we have are apparently prohibitively
expensive.
But this is all hearsay and internal muttering (notice how often the word
'apparently' appears), so don't quote me... :-)
Sometimes someone will have two or three copies open (comparing files) so if
someone can't get into their drawing they usually email around asking for
people to close unneeded copies, and a license usually gets free fairly
quickly.
I believe that the license may have come from AutoDesk and they only
realized later what they gave us - closing the barn door after the horse is
gone. I think that's the reason for the costly upgrade.
-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Watson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 5, 2001 9:56 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Autocad sharing
Genny,
Thanks for the information on IntelliCAD, I will give this a try. I had
previously stated that we have more people who need AutoCAD than we have
licenses for, and I was in no way implying that we are using illegal
software, so thanks for noting that. Our situation is just like yours in
that we have some (several?) casual users who would like to use AutoCAD, but
the cost is not attractive at this time. Is your "hunting license"
something that comes from Autodesk? How would this work for us considering
we already have the individual licenses purchased? The situation you have
sounds like where we want to get to, except the part about not everybody can
get on when they need it! I think we could live with that.
Thank to all for your suggestions, I will look into all of them.
Howard Watson
Manufacturing Engineer
AMETEK/Dixson
Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
12/05/01 08:03 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: Re: [TN] Autocad sharing
I think you can actually download Intellicad for free if you just want to
use the package, <http://www.intellicad.org/> www.intellicad.org, just join
as a non-commercial member. If you want the source code to modify it to
your own purpose, or if you buy it from some company that has done that
already, then you may have to pay.
I really don't think Howard was broadcasting that he is using illegal
software - we have a 10 user hunting license for Autocad LT in our
workplace. Most people that use Autocad around here are not using it 100%
of the time. So there are up to 10 licenses available. When 10 copies are
open, no one else can open Autocad. As we grow bigger this is starting to
become a slight problem, because additional licenses cost an arm and a leg,
so we are sticking with our current number of licenses, and not everyone
gets on whenever they want anymore.
Regards,
Genny.
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 5, 2001 8:34 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Autocad sharing
Howard,
There is a package available from AutoDesk for running as a network
application. Now that you have "let the cat out of the bag" about having
more users than licenses I would be careful about your solution as the
Software Police are on the prowl. Several months ago there was a huge media
campaign with radio spots (and TV ads?) about running illegal software in
the Boston area. The cost of the legal copies or network license (one for
each user) is cheaper than the fines and penalties levied by the Software
Police.
All it takes is one phone call from a disgruntled employee or other person
seeking to damage your company. (I will not call !)
An alternative solution for your CAD needs is IntelliCAD® 2000 for Microsoft
Windows by IntelliCAD Technology Consortium. This can be found at
<http://www.cadopia.com/> www.cadopia.com. We have purchased this for the
same reason you want to share AutoCAD. One caution is that, I noticed as an
accomplished AutoCAD user, I found many commands or control functions the
same, but there were a few that defied explanation.
Phil Nutting
[Phil Nutting] -----Original Message-----
From: Howard Watson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:52 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Autocad sharing
Dear Technetters,
Does anyone know of a sharing software that allows users to share Autocad LT
or 14 on a Novell network? We only have 9 licenses available and many more
people than that who need to use Autocad, though some like myself only need
it occasionally. I believe that a share software would only allow 9 users
access at one time.
If there is no such beast, is there a recommendation for a cheaper CAD
package than AutoCAD LT, or one that is a free download? Needless to say,
spending is getting really tight. Thanks in advance for the advice.
Howard Watson
Manufacturing Engineer
AMETEK/Dixson
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Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=297083116-05122001>Well,
I don't know all the details, but unfortunately I'm not sure you'll be
able to get the same deal. We got this 10 user license a few years
ago when we went to AutoCad LT 98 and apparently we are not willing to
upgrade to a newer version of AutoCad LT because we can't get the same great
deal. And additional seats for the license we have are apparently
prohibitively expensive.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=297083116-05122001>But
this is all hearsay and internal muttering (notice how often the word
'apparently' appears), so don't quote me... :-)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=297083116-05122001>Sometimes someone will have two or three copies open
(comparing files) so if someone can't get into their drawing they usually email
around asking for people to close unneeded copies, and a license usually
gets free fairly quickly. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=297083116-05122001>I
believe that the license may have come from AutoDesk and they only realized
later what they gave us - closing the barn door after the horse is gone. I
think that's the reason for the costly upgrade.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Howard Watson
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> December 5, 2001 9:56
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Autocad
sharing<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Genny,</FONT>
<BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Thanks for the information on IntelliCAD,
I will give this a try. I had previously stated that we have more people
who need AutoCAD than we have licenses for, and I was in no way implying that
we are using illegal software, so thanks for noting that. Our situation
is just like yours in that we have some (several?) casual users who would like
to use AutoCAD, but the cost is not attractive at this time. Is your
"hunting license" something that comes from Autodesk? How would this
work for us considering we already have the individual licenses purchased?
The situation you have sounds like where we want to get to, except the
part about not everybody can get on when they need it! I think we could
live with that.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Thank to all for
your suggestions, I will look into all of them.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2>Howard Watson<BR>Manufacturing
Engineer<BR>AMETEK/Dixson</FONT> <BR><BR><BR>
<TABLE width="100%">
<TBODY>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD>
<TD><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><B>Genny Gibbard
<[log in to unmask]></B></FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif
size=1>Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></FONT>
<P><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>12/05/01 08:03 AM</FONT> <BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1>Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."</FONT>
<BR></P>
<TD><FONT face=Arial size=1> </FONT><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1> To:
[log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif
size=1> cc:
</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>
Subject: Re: [TN] Autocad
sharing</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FONT color=blue face=Arial
size=2>I think you can actually download Intellicad for free if you just want
to use the package, </FONT><A href="http://www.intellicad.org/"><FONT
color=blue face=Arial size=2><U>www.intellicad.org</U></FONT></A><FONT
color=blue face=Arial size=2>, just join as a non-commercial member. If
you want the source code to modify it to your own purpose, or if you buy it
from some company that has done that already, then you may have to pay.</FONT>
<BR><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT color=blue
face=Arial size=2>I really don't think Howard was broadcasting that he is
using illegal software - we have a 10 user hunting license for Autocad LT in
our workplace. Most people that use Autocad around here are not using it
100% of the time. So there are up to 10 licenses available. When
10 copies are open, no one else can open Autocad. As we grow bigger this
is starting to become a slight problem, because additional licenses cost an
arm and a leg, so we are sticking with our current number of licenses, and not
everyone gets on whenever they want anymore. </FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT color=blue face=Arial
size=2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT color=blue face=Arial size=2>Genny.</FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<B><BR>From:</B> Phil
Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B><BR>Sent:</B> December 5, 2001
8:34 AM<B><BR>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<B><BR>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Autocad
sharing<BR></FONT><BR><FONT color=blue face=Arial size=2>Howard,</FONT>
<BR><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT color=blue
face=Arial size=2>There is a package available from AutoDesk for running as a
network application. Now that you have "let the cat out of the bag"
about having more users than licenses I would be careful about your solution
as the Software Police are on the prowl. Several months ago there was a
huge media campaign with radio spots (and TV ads?) about running illegal
software in the Boston area. The cost of the legal copies or network
license (one for each user) is cheaper than the fines and penalties levied by
the Software Police.</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT color=blue face=Arial size=2>All it takes is
one phone call from a disgruntled employee or other person seeking to damage
your company. (I will not call !)</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT color=blue face=Arial size=2>An alternative
solution for your CAD needs is IntelliCAD® 2000 for Microsoft Windows by
IntelliCAD Technology Consortium. This can be found at </FONT><A
href="http://www.cadopia.com/"><FONT color=blue face=Arial
size=2><U>www.cadopia.com</U></FONT></A><FONT color=blue face=Arial size=2>.
We have purchased this for the same reason you want to share AutoCAD.
One caution is that, I noticed as an accomplished AutoCAD user, I found many
commands or control functions the same, but there were a few that defied
explanation.</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT>
<BR><FONT color=blue face=Arial size=2>Phil Nutting</FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT><BR><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT color=blue face=Arial size=2><BR>[Phil Nutting]
</FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original
Message-----<B><BR>From:</B> Howard Watson
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B><BR>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 04, 2001
4:52 PM<B><BR>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<B><BR>Subject:</B> [TN] Autocad
sharing<BR></FONT><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><BR>Dear
Technetters,</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <BR></FONT><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><BR>Does anyone know of a sharing software that allows
users to share Autocad LT or 14 on a Novell network? We only have 9
licenses available and many more people than that who need to use Autocad,
though some like myself only need it occasionally. I believe that a
share software would only allow 9 users access at one time.</FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><BR>If
there is no such beast, is there a recommendation for a cheaper CAD package
than AutoCAD LT, or one that is a free download? Needless to say,
spending is getting really tight. Thanks in advance for the
advice.</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> <BR></FONT><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><BR>Howard Watson<BR>Manufacturing
Engineer<BR>AMETEK/Dixson</FONT> <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:54:02 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RESIN RECESSION
X-To: Rick Howieson <[log in to unmask]>
Rick, thanks for shedding more light on the subject. Actually, I wasn't
asking the question as I've been relatively worry free about it for some
time - unless a customer gets overly concerned about it.
I think Joe, and many others talk well about what it looks like and how it
compares with other such findings as hole wall pull away. I've been through
the well written 600 many times and can't even find anything concerning it.
For me, Section 3.1, and in particular 3.1.1's figure showing the thermal
and laminate evaluation zones and what falls out of it, pretty much tells
the whole story.
Earl
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:04:37 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Autocad sharing
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Genny,
=20
Yes, AutoCAD seats are pricey. I think the LT version is around $600
and the Full blown version is $3000 per seat. OUCH! Sorry if I was
implying that you were running illegal copies. My apologies. Please
read my first note as guidance for all of us in the business world
regarding number of users per licensed copies. Yes, we too have network
licenses for a finite number of seats for some software. It can be a
pain in the butt sometimes. In the big picture this can make the most
sense when there are a few "casual" users.
=20
Again my apologies.
=20
Phil Nutting
-----Original Message-----
From: Genny Gibbard [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 11:54 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Autocad sharing
Well, I don't know all the details, but unfortunately I'm not sure
you'll be able to get the same deal. We got this 10 user license a few
years ago when we went to AutoCad LT 98 and apparently we are not
willing to upgrade to a newer version of AutoCad LT because we can't get
the same great deal. And additional seats for the license we have are
apparently prohibitively expensive.
But this is all hearsay and internal muttering (notice how often the
word 'apparently' appears), so don't quote me... :-)
Sometimes someone will have two or three copies open (comparing files)
so if someone can't get into their drawing they usually email around
asking for people to close unneeded copies, and a license usually gets
free fairly quickly. =20
I believe that the license may have come from AutoDesk and they only
realized later what they gave us - closing the barn door after the horse
is gone. I think that's the reason for the costly upgrade.
-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Watson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 5, 2001 9:56 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Autocad sharing
Genny,=20
Thanks for the information on IntelliCAD, I will give this a try. I had
previously stated that we have more people who need AutoCAD than we have
licenses for, and I was in no way implying that we are using illegal
software, so thanks for noting that. Our situation is just like yours
in that we have some (several?) casual users who would like to use
AutoCAD, but the cost is not attractive at this time. Is your "hunting
license" something that comes from Autodesk? How would this work for us
considering we already have the individual licenses purchased? The
situation you have sounds like where we want to get to, except the part
about not everybody can get on when they need it! I think we could live
with that.=20
Thank to all for your suggestions, I will look into all of them.=20
Howard Watson
Manufacturing Engineer
AMETEK/Dixson=20
Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>=20
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>=20
12/05/01 08:03 AM=20
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."=20
=20
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: =20
Subject: Re: [TN] Autocad sharing=09
I think you can actually download Intellicad for free if you just want
to use the package, <http://www.intellicad.org/> www.intellicad.org,
just join as a non-commercial member. If you want the source code to
modify it to your own purpose, or if you buy it from some company that
has done that already, then you may have to pay.=20
=20
I really don't think Howard was broadcasting that he is using illegal
software - we have a 10 user hunting license for Autocad LT in our
workplace. Most people that use Autocad around here are not using it
100% of the time. So there are up to 10 licenses available. When 10
copies are open, no one else can open Autocad. As we grow bigger this
is starting to become a slight problem, because additional licenses cost
an arm and a leg, so we are sticking with our current number of
licenses, and not everyone gets on whenever they want anymore. =20
=20
Regards,=20
Genny.=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 5, 2001 8:34 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Autocad sharing
Howard,=20
=20
There is a package available from AutoDesk for running as a network
application. Now that you have "let the cat out of the bag" about
having more users than licenses I would be careful about your solution
as the Software Police are on the prowl. Several months ago there was a
huge media campaign with radio spots (and TV ads?) about running illegal
software in the Boston area. The cost of the legal copies or network
license (one for each user) is cheaper than the fines and penalties
levied by the Software Police.=20
=20
All it takes is one phone call from a disgruntled employee or other
person seeking to damage your company. (I will not call !)=20
=20
An alternative solution for your CAD needs is IntelliCAD=AE 2000 for
Microsoft Windows by IntelliCAD Technology Consortium. This can be
found at <http://www.cadopia.com/> www.cadopia.com. We have purchased
this for the same reason you want to share AutoCAD. One caution is that,
I noticed as an accomplished AutoCAD user, I found many commands or
control functions the same, but there were a few that defied
explanation.=20
=20
Phil Nutting=20
=20
[Phil Nutting] -----Original Message-----
From: Howard Watson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:52 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Autocad sharing
Dear Technetters,=20
Does anyone know of a sharing software that allows users to share
Autocad LT or 14 on a Novell network? We only have 9 licenses available
and many more people than that who need to use Autocad, though some like
myself only need it occasionally. I believe that a share software would
only allow 9 users access at one time.=20
If there is no such beast, is there a recommendation for a cheaper CAD
package than AutoCAD LT, or one that is a free download? Needless to
say, spending is getting really tight. Thanks in advance for the
advice.=20
Howard Watson
Manufacturing Engineer
AMETEK/Dixson=20
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D912585916-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Genny,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D912585916-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D912585916-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Yes,=20
AutoCAD seats are pricey. I think the LT version is around $600 =
and the=20
Full blown version is $3000 per seat. OUCH! Sorry if I was =
implying=20
that you were running illegal copies. My apologies. Please read my =
first=20
note as guidance for all of us in the business world regarding number of =
users=20
per licensed copies. Yes, we too have network licenses for a finite =
number of=20
seats for some software. It can be a pain in the butt =
sometimes. In=20
the big picture this can make the most sense when there are a few =
"casual"=20
users.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D912585916-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D912585916-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Again=20
my apologies.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D912585916-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D912585916-05122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Phil=20
Nutting</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Genny Gibbard=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December =
05, 2001=20
11:54 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] =
Autocad=20
sharing<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D297083116-05122001>Well, I don't know all the details, but =
unfortunately=20
I'm not sure you'll be able to get the same deal. We =
got this=20
10 user license a few years ago when we went to AutoCad LT =
98 and=20
apparently we are not willing to upgrade to a newer version of AutoCad =
LT=20
because we can't get the same great deal. And additional seats =
for the=20
license we have are apparently prohibitively =
expensive.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D297083116-05122001>But=20
this is all hearsay and internal muttering (notice how often the word=20
'apparently' appears), so don't quote me... =20
:-)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D297083116-05122001>Sometimes someone will have two or three =
copies open=20
(comparing files) so if someone can't get into their drawing they =
usually=20
email around asking for people to close unneeded copies, and a =
license=20
usually gets free fairly quickly. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D297083116-05122001>I=20
believe that the license may have come from AutoDesk and they =
only=20
realized later what they gave us - closing the barn door after the =
horse is=20
gone. I think that's the reason for the costly=20
upgrade.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Howard Watson=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> December 5, 2001 =
9:56=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Autocad =
sharing<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2>Genny,</FONT>=20
<BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Thanks for the information =
on=20
IntelliCAD, I will give this a try. I had previously stated =
that we=20
have more people who need AutoCAD than we have licenses for, and I =
was in no=20
way implying that we are using illegal software, so thanks for =
noting that.=20
Our situation is just like yours in that we have some =
(several?)=20
casual users who would like to use AutoCAD, but the cost is not =
attractive=20
at this time. Is your "hunting license" something that comes =
from=20
Autodesk? How would this work for us considering we already =
have the=20
individual licenses purchased? The situation you have sounds =
like=20
where we want to get to, except the part about not everybody can get =
on when=20
they need it! I think we could live with that.</FONT> =
<BR><BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Thank to all for your suggestions, I will =
look into=20
all of them.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Howard=20
Watson<BR>Manufacturing Engineer<BR>AMETEK/Dixson</FONT> =
<BR><BR><BR>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
<TBODY>
<TR vAlign=3Dtop>
<TD>
<TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Genny Gibbard=20
<[log in to unmask]></B></FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D1>Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>12/05/01 08:03 AM</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail=20
Forum."</FONT> <BR></P>
<TD><FONT face=3DArial size=3D1> =20
</FONT><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1> =
=20
To: [log in to unmask]</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1> cc: =
=20
</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1> =20
Subject: Re: [TN] =
Autocad=20
sharing</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2>I think you can actually download Intellicad =
for free if=20
you just want to use the package, </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.intellicad.org/"><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2><U>www.intellicad.org</U></FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2>, just join as a non-commercial member. If you want =
the source=20
code to modify it to your own purpose, or if you buy it from some =
company=20
that has done that already, then you may have to pay.</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2>I really don't think Howard was broadcasting that he is =
using illegal=20
software - we have a 10 user hunting license for Autocad LT in our=20
workplace. Most people that use Autocad around here are not =
using it=20
100% of the time. So there are up to 10 licenses available. =
When=20
10 copies are open, no one else can open Autocad. As we grow =
bigger=20
this is starting to become a slight problem, because additional =
licenses=20
cost an arm and a leg, so we are sticking with our current number of =
licenses, and not everyone gets on whenever they want anymore. =
</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2>Genny.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2>-----Original=20
Message-----<B><BR>From:</B> Phil Nutting=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B><BR>Sent:</B> December 5, 2001 =
8:34=20
AM<B><BR>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<B><BR>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Autocad =
sharing<BR></FONT><BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue =
size=3D2>Howard,</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2>There is a package available from AutoDesk for =
running as=20
a network application. Now that you have "let the cat out of =
the bag"=20
about having more users than licenses I would be careful about your =
solution=20
as the Software Police are on the prowl. Several months ago =
there was=20
a huge media campaign with radio spots (and TV ads?) about running =
illegal=20
software in the Boston area. The cost of the legal copies or =
network=20
license (one for each user) is cheaper than the fines and penalties =
levied=20
by the Software Police.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue =
size=3D2>All it takes is=20
one phone call from a disgruntled employee or other person seeking =
to damage=20
your company. (I will not call !)</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
size=3D3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue =
size=3D2>An alternative=20
solution for your CAD needs is IntelliCAD=AE 2000 for Microsoft =
Windows by=20
IntelliCAD Technology Consortium. This can be found at =
</FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cadopia.com/"><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2><U>www.cadopia.com</U></FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue size=3D2>.=20
We have purchased this for the same reason you want to share =
AutoCAD.=20
One caution is that, I noticed as an accomplished AutoCAD user, I =
found many=20
commands or control functions the same, but there were a few that =
defied=20
explanation.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3> </FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>Phil =
Nutting</FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT><BR><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue =
size=3D2><BR>[Phil=20
Nutting] </FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original=20
Message-----<B><BR>From:</B> Howard Watson=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B><BR>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December =
04, 2001=20
4:52 PM<B><BR>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<B><BR>Subject:</B> [TN] =
Autocad=20
sharing<BR></FONT><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Dear=20
Technetters,</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> =
<BR></FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Does anyone know of a sharing =
software that=20
allows users to share Autocad LT or 14 on a Novell network? We =
only=20
have 9 licenses available and many more people than that who need to =
use=20
Autocad, though some like myself only need it occasionally. I =
believe=20
that a share software would only allow 9 users access at one=20
time.</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> =
<BR></FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>If there is no such beast, is there a =
recommendation for a cheaper CAD package than AutoCAD LT, or one =
that is a=20
free download? Needless to say, spending is getting really =
tight.=20
Thanks in advance for the advice.</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Howard=20
Watson<BR>Manufacturing Engineer<BR>AMETEK/Dixson</FONT>=20
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C17DAE.EB7D3A5E--
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:03:35 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Small PCBs in wash
X-To: Mark Charlton <[log in to unmask]>
Used to clean such small boards in ultrasonic machine using bad old ozone
depleating chemicals. Did the same with hybrid thick film circuits. Now
clean hybrid substrates, among others, in plasma. Too expensive, right?
You're obviously a very inventive engineering type, so we all look forward
to your solution.
MoonMan
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:13:43 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jorge Rodriguez <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: QFP Leads with 85 Tin 15 Lead finish
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I already sent this e-mail on the past, got one answer, I hope there
is somebody out there having the same issue.
Fellow Technetters:
I am sending this looking for any help, I guess I've done
everything as far as the process and I haven't been able to resolve the
issue. We've been having soldering problems for a while with QFPs with 85
Sn/15 Pb finish on the leads. The solder doesn't flow properly and an
acceptable solder joint is not formed, the leads can be sometimes lifted
with no effort. The solder paste was checked after the screen printer
operation and it looked alright, the oven profile was also verified and it's
always within the solder paste manufacturer's recommendations. This problem
seems to be affecting all the different products with this type of
component. These part numbers are manufactured by Altera. Has anybody
experienced similar problems with QFPs from this manufacturer?, Does anybody
have recommendations as far as the reflow oven profile?. I read somewhere
that this particular alloy has the liquidus temperature at 205 degrees, is
this accurate?
Any help would be really appreciated
Jorge Rodriguez
Sr Process Engineer
Varian Electronics Manufacturing
615 South River Drive
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:15:08 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Elensky, Richard" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Small PCBs in wash
X-To: Mark Charlton <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Mark,
We used a large stainless steel basket from EMC. (20" x 20" x 2")
There are several others available.
As the mesh was large (about .5" x .5") we lined it with stainless
screen. The lining was not stretched tight, to provide some protection for
the small assemblies.
We were using a Hollis Hurricane aqueous cleaner with 10 hp wash/rinse
pumps. Even with the small mesh screen we were able to adequately clean the
boards.
Hope that helps.
Rich
Richard Elensky
Sr. Manufacturing Engineer
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Tel: 559-292-1111 x246
Fax: 559-292-9355
Dantel
2991 North Argyle Ave.
Fresno, CA, 93727
Visit our web site at:
http:// www.dantel.com <http://www.dantel.com>
----------
From: Mark Charlton [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 8:31 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Small PCBs in wash
We're experiencing some damage to some small PCB's (0.75"x1.75")
that occurs during their trip through the aqueous cleaner. The boards are
originally processed in a panel but some require rework or additional
processing once they have been depanelized.
Can anyone suggest a method to secure these small boards inside the
wash racks as to prevent this damage?
Mark Charlton
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:14:04 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Becerra Alejandro <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Manual Soldering vs. Automatic Soldering
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This is our idea, but some people in the company is pushing to do the
operation manually.
We would like some technical information in order to demonstrate that the
manual touch up is a risk.
Alejandro
-----Original Message-----
From: Atkinson, Neil [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:56 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Manual Soldering vs. Automatic Soldering
Why would anyone think that 100% touch up would be effective?
In my experience touch up is likely to cause more problems than it solves -
if you must do it and the application is that critical then I would say go
automatic as you will have direct control of soldering parameters
Neil
-----Original Message-----
From: Becerra Alejandro [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 05 December 2001 02:19
Subject: Manual Soldering vs. Automatic Soldering
Hello to All,
One product request a 100% touch up in several joints because of safety.
We are considering doing this process by manual soldering or using automatic
soldering (robot).
What are the advantage and disadvantage of both procedures?
Where can I find a comparison between them?
Is there any reliability issue in using manual soldering?
Any help will be greatly appreciated
Alejandro Becerra
_____________________________________________________________________
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D722260717-05122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>This=20
is our idea, but some people in the company is pushing to do the =
operation=20
manually.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D722260717-05122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>We=20
would like some technical information in order to demonstrate that the =
manual=20
touch up is a risk.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D722260717-05122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D722260717-05122001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Alejandro</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Atkinson, Neil=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December =
05, 2001=20
12:56 AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] =
Manual=20
Soldering vs. Automatic Soldering<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle16><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Why=20
would anyone think that 100% touch up would be=20
effective?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle16><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle16><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">In my=20
experience touch up is likely to cause more problems than it solves - =
if you=20
must do it and the application is that critical then I would say go =
automatic as=20
you will have direct control of soldering=20
parameters<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle16><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>=
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle16><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Neil<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">-----Original=20
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> =
Becerra=20
Alejandro [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> 05 December 2001 =
02:19<BR><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Manual Soldering vs. =
Automatic=20
Soldering</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hello to=20
All,</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black">=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">One product =
request a=20
100% touch up in several joints because of safety.</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black"> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We are =
considering=20
doing this process by manual soldering or using automatic soldering=20
(robot).</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black"> =
<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">What are =
the advantage=20
and disadvantage of both procedures?</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black"> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Where can=20
I find a comparison between them?</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black"> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Is there=20
any reliability issue in using manual soldering?</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Any help =
will be=20
greatly appreciated</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN =
style=3D"COLOR: black">=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Alejandro=20
Becerra</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black">=20
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><BR>_____________________=
________________________________________________<BR>This=20
message has been checked for all known viruses by Star =
Internet<BR>delivered=20
through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For =
further<BR>information visit=20
http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call<BR>Star Internet =
for=20
details on the Virus Scanning Service.<BR></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:18:16 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Creswick, Steven" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Conductive epoxy..
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Could check out the 84-1LMI series, also from Ablestik Labs
Steve Creswick
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen R. Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 11:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Conductive epoxy..
Hi All!!
I was wondering if anybody knows of a good silver filled liquid conductive
epoxy that has the same sort of conductivy as that of Ablefilm 5025E...I'm
gonna do some searching myself, but I thought that I'd ask the experts
first...
Thanks!
-Steve Gregory-
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<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=291011817-05122001>Could
check out the 84-1LMI series, also from Ablestik Labs</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=291011817-05122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=291011817-05122001>Steve
Creswick</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Stephen R. Gregory
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 05, 2001 11:00
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Conductive
epoxy..<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>Hi All!!
<BR><BR>I was wondering if anybody knows of a good silver filled liquid
conductive epoxy that has the same sort of conductivy as that of Ablefilm
5025E...I'm gonna do some searching myself, but I thought that I'd ask the
experts first... <BR><BR>Thanks! <BR><BR>-Steve Gregory-</FONT>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:13:57 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SURFACE FINISHES
X-To: "Charles E. McMahon" <[log in to unmask]>
As a cost factor to you it's nickle and dime stuff. To most board shops I
work with, it is as well. It's a matter of choice so much that it's almost
subjective (whatever looks best though black pad isn't too pretty) -
excluding HASL, or course. I hope you are right about its final demise.
MoonMann
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:16:51 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RESIN RECESSION
X-To: Gary McCauley <[log in to unmask]>
Gary,
A very consice and terse answer. Meaning no disrespect to Rick, I agree with
your assessment. Still don't have a real cause, everyone accepts, for
recession but, again, does it matter?
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:33:26 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SURFACE FINISHES
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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EARL:
Does your view hold the same from an assemblers point of view.
More specifically, in your history, would the assembler prefer ENIG over
SILVER and/or TIN?
THe assemblers I speak with just do not have the background/experience to
decide. However, they
are quick to reject the bare board vendor for what they THINK is a
solderability problem.
(That's when I move with failure review etc. I hope to reduce this incidence
dramatically by proposing user friendly finishes based on board design.)
Charlie
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Earl Moon
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] SURFACE FINISHES
As a cost factor to you it's nickle and dime stuff. To most board shops I
work with, it is as well. It's a matter of choice so much that it's almost
subjective (whatever looks best though black pad isn't too pretty) -
excluding HASL, or course. I hope you are right about its final demise.
MoonMann
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:46:15 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bill Christoffel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Peel Test Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I need to perform some type of "peel test" on my solderable board leads.
What's the best procedure to follow and where can I get a copy of it.
Thanks,
Bill C.
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:51:54 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Small PCBs in wash
X-To: Mark Charlton <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C17D8B.9E2F2320"
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=20
Many years ago [it seems] Steve Gregory suggested something like this on =
SMTnet and it's worked fine for us .
* Go to your local hardware store.
* Purchase sturdy fencing material with appropriate spacing between the =
grid and some cable ties.
* Cut two squares of the grid material so that: One square of the grid =
material is 2000 thou narrower than the throat of your washer. The =
other square of the grid material is the same width as the throat of =
your washer.
* On the bigger piece of grid material, cut a 1000 thou square of =
material from each corner.
* On the bigger piece of grid material, fold the 1000 thou tabs on each =
side at a 90=B0 to the majority of the material.
* Secure the tabs with the cable ties.
* Attach the remaining piece of grid material to the piece that you've =
been mangling, using the cable ties as hinges.
=20
Tks Steve
=20
An additional bonus is that during facility tours your President can =
point these baskets as proof that the company participates in local hire =
the handicapped programs.
=20
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Mark Charlton=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 8:31 AM
Subject: [TN] Small PCBs in wash
We're experiencing some damage to some small PCB's (0.75"x1.75") that =
occurs during their trip through the aqueous cleaner. The boards are =
originally processed in a panel but some require rework or additional =
processing once they have been depanelized.
=20
Can anyone suggest a method to secure these small boards inside the =
wash racks as to prevent this damage?
=20
Mark Charlton
=20
=20
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C17D8B.9E2F2320
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Many years ago [it seems] Steve Gregory suggested =
something=20
like this on SMTnet and it’s worked fine for us …</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>* Go to your local hardware store.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>* Purchase sturdy fencing material with appropriate =
spacing=20
between the grid and some cable ties.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>* Cut two squares of the grid material so =
that:<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>One square of the grid =
material is 2000=20
thou narrower than the throat of your washer.<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The other square of the grid =
material is=20
the same width as the throat of your washer.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>* On the bigger piece of grid material, cut a 1000 =
thou=20
square of material from each corner.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>* On the bigger piece of grid material, fold the =
1000 thou=20
tabs on each side at a 90=B0 to the majority of the material.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>* Secure the tabs with the cable ties.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>* Attach the remaining piece of grid material to =
the piece=20
that you’ve been mangling, using the cable ties as hinges.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> <?xml:namespace prefix =3D o ns =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Tks Steve</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>An additional bonus is that during facility tours =
your=20
President can point these baskets as proof that the company participates =
in=20
local hire the handicapped programs.</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal>Dave Fish</P></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" [log in to unmask]>Mark =
Charlton</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=20
[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 05, =
2001 8:31=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Small PCBs in =
wash</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We're experiencing some damage to =
some small=20
PCB's (0.75"x1.75") that occurs during their trip through the aqueous=20
cleaner. The boards are originally processed in a panel but some =
require=20
rework or additional processing once they have been =
depanelized.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can anyone suggest a method to =
secure these=20
small boards inside the wash racks as to prevent this =
damage?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark Charlton</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:57:10 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Wenger, George M." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: QFP Leads with 85 Tin 15 Lead finish
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jorge,
The first thing I would do is take problem devices and turn them upside
down (i.e., "dead-bug" position) and measure the plating thickness and
composition using XRF (i.e., X-Ray Fluorescence. QFP soldering problems
with high tin content plating usually is an indication that the leads
weren't plated correctly. If the plating on the leads isn't above 200
microinches you'll probably have soldering problems.
Regards,
George
George M. Wenger (908)-546-4531 [log in to unmask]
Celiant Corporation
40 Technology Drive
Warren, New Jersey 07059
-----Original Message-----
From: Jorge Rodriguez [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] QFP Leads with 85 Tin 15 Lead finish
I already sent this e-mail on the past, got one answer, I hope
there
is somebody out there having the same issue.
Fellow Technetters:
I am sending this looking for any help, I guess I've
done
everything as far as the process and I haven't been able to resolve the
issue. We've been having soldering problems for a while with QFPs with
85
Sn/15 Pb finish on the leads. The solder doesn't flow properly and an
acceptable solder joint is not formed, the leads can be sometimes lifted
with no effort. The solder paste was checked after the screen printer
operation and it looked alright, the oven profile was also verified and
it's
always within the solder paste manufacturer's recommendations. This
problem
seems to be affecting all the different products with this type of
component. These part numbers are manufactured by Altera. Has anybody
experienced similar problems with QFPs from this manufacturer?, Does
anybody
have recommendations as far as the reflow oven profile?. I read
somewhere
that this particular alloy has the liquidus temperature at 205 degrees,
is
this accurate?
Any help would be really appreciated
Jorge Rodriguez
Sr Process Engineer
Varian Electronics Manufacturing
615 South River Drive
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:11:16 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen S. Schiera" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Autocad sharing
X-To: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
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If some of your users need to view only you can get VoloView from Autodesk.
Another low cost CAD package that is useful is TurboCAD from IMSI (
turbocad.com ).
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Genny Gibbard [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: Autocad sharing
Well, I don't know all the details, but unfortunately I'm not sure you'll
be able to get the same deal. We got this 10 user license a few years ago
when we went to AutoCad LT 98 and apparently we are not willing to upgrade
to a newer version of AutoCad LT because we can't get the same great deal.
And additional seats for the license we have are apparently prohibitively
expensive.
But this is all hearsay and internal muttering (notice how often the word
'apparently' appears), so don't quote me... :-)
Sometimes someone will have two or three copies open (comparing files) so
if someone can't get into their drawing they usually email around asking for
people to close unneeded copies, and a license usually gets free fairly
quickly.
I believe that the license may have come from AutoDesk and they only
realized later what they gave us - closing the barn door after the horse is
gone. I think that's the reason for the costly upgrade.
-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Watson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 5, 2001 9:56 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Autocad sharing
Genny,
Thanks for the information on IntelliCAD, I will give this a try. I had
previously stated that we have more people who need AutoCAD than we have
licenses for, and I was in no way implying that we are using illegal
software, so thanks for noting that. Our situation is just like yours in
that we have some (several?) casual users who would like to use AutoCAD, but
the cost is not attractive at this time. Is your "hunting license"
something that comes from Autodesk? How would this work for us considering
we already have the individual licenses purchased? The situation you have
sounds like where we want to get to, except the part about not everybody can
get on when they need it! I think we could live with that.
Thank to all for your suggestions, I will look into all of them.
Howard Watson
Manufacturing Engineer
AMETEK/Dixson
Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
12/05/01 08:03 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: Re: [TN] Autocad sharing
I think you can actually download Intellicad for free if you just want
to use the package, www.intellicad.org, just join as a non-commercial
member. If you want the source code to modify it to your own purpose, or if
you buy it from some company that has done that already, then you may have
to pay.
I really don't think Howard was broadcasting that he is using illegal
software - we have a 10 user hunting license for Autocad LT in our
workplace. Most people that use Autocad around here are not using it 100%
of the time. So there are up to 10 licenses available. When 10 copies are
open, no one else can open Autocad. As we grow bigger this is starting to
become a slight problem, because additional licenses cost an arm and a leg,
so we are sticking with our current number of licenses, and not everyone
gets on whenever they want anymore.
Regards,
Genny.
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 5, 2001 8:34 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Autocad sharing
Howard,
There is a package available from AutoDesk for running as a network
application. Now that you have "let the cat out of the bag" about having
more users than licenses I would be careful about your solution as the
Software Police are on the prowl. Several months ago there was a huge media
campaign with radio spots (and TV ads?) about running illegal software in
the Boston area. The cost of the legal copies or network license (one for
each user) is cheaper than the fines and penalties levied by the Software
Police.
All it takes is one phone call from a disgruntled employee or other
person seeking to damage your company. (I will not call !)
An alternative solution for your CAD needs is IntelliCAD® 2000 for
Microsoft Windows by IntelliCAD Technology Consortium. This can be found at
www.cadopia.com. We have purchased this for the same reason you want to
share AutoCAD. One caution is that, I noticed as an accomplished AutoCAD
user, I found many commands or control functions the same, but there were a
few that defied explanation.
Phil Nutting
[Phil Nutting] -----Original Message-----
From: Howard Watson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:52 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Autocad sharing
Dear Technetters,
Does anyone know of a sharing software that allows users to share
Autocad LT or 14 on a Novell network? We only have 9 licenses available and
many more people than that who need to use Autocad, though some like myself
only need it occasionally. I believe that a share software would only allow
9 users access at one time.
If there is no such beast, is there a recommendation for a cheaper CAD
package than AutoCAD LT, or one that is a free download? Needless to say,
spending is getting really tight. Thanks in advance for the advice.
Howard Watson
Manufacturing Engineer
AMETEK/Dixson
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D227400818-05122001>If=20
some of your users need to view only you can get VoloView from =
Autodesk. =20
Another low cost CAD package that is useful is TurboCAD from IMSI ( =
turbocad.com=20
).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D227400818-05122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D227400818-05122001>Steve </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Genny Gibbard=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December =
05, 2001=20
10:54 AM<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Autocad sharing<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D297083116-05122001>Well, I don't know all the details, but =
unfortunately=20
I'm not sure you'll be able to get the same deal. We =
got this=20
10 user license a few years ago when we went to AutoCad LT =
98 and=20
apparently we are not willing to upgrade to a newer version of AutoCad =
LT=20
because we can't get the same great deal. And additional seats =
for the=20
license we have are apparently prohibitively =
expensive.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D297083116-05122001>But=20
this is all hearsay and internal muttering (notice how often the word=20
'apparently' appears), so don't quote me... =20
:-)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D297083116-05122001>Sometimes someone will have two or three =
copies open=20
(comparing files) so if someone can't get into their drawing they =
usually=20
email around asking for people to close unneeded copies, and a =
license=20
usually gets free fairly quickly. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D297083116-05122001>I=20
believe that the license may have come from AutoDesk and they =
only=20
realized later what they gave us - closing the barn door after the =
horse is=20
gone. I think that's the reason for the costly=20
upgrade.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Howard Watson=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> December 5, 2001 =
9:56=20
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Autocad =
sharing<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D2>Genny,</FONT>=20
<BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Thanks for the information =
on=20
IntelliCAD, I will give this a try. I had previously stated =
that we=20
have more people who need AutoCAD than we have licenses for, and I =
was in no=20
way implying that we are using illegal software, so thanks for =
noting that.=20
Our situation is just like yours in that we have some =
(several?)=20
casual users who would like to use AutoCAD, but the cost is not =
attractive=20
at this time. Is your "hunting license" something that comes =
from=20
Autodesk? How would this work for us considering we already =
have the=20
individual licenses purchased? The situation you have sounds =
like=20
where we want to get to, except the part about not everybody can get =
on when=20
they need it! I think we could live with that.</FONT> =
<BR><BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Thank to all for your suggestions, I will =
look into=20
all of them.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Howard=20
Watson<BR>Manufacturing Engineer<BR>AMETEK/Dixson</FONT> =
<BR><BR><BR>
<TABLE width=3D"100%">
<TBODY>
<TR vAlign=3Dtop>
<TD>
<TD><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1><B>Genny Gibbard=20
<[log in to unmask]></B></FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
size=3D1>Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></FONT>=20
<P><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>12/05/01 08:03 AM</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1>Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail=20
Forum."</FONT> <BR></P>
<TD><FONT face=3DArial size=3D1> =20
</FONT><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1> =
=20
To: [log in to unmask]</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D1> cc: =
=20
</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif =
size=3D1> =20
Subject: Re: [TN] =
Autocad=20
sharing</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2>I think you can actually download Intellicad =
for free if=20
you just want to use the package, </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.intellicad.org/"><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2><U>www.intellicad.org</U></FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2>, just join as a non-commercial member. If you want =
the source=20
code to modify it to your own purpose, or if you buy it from some =
company=20
that has done that already, then you may have to pay.</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2>I really don't think Howard was broadcasting that he is =
using illegal=20
software - we have a 10 user hunting license for Autocad LT in our=20
workplace. Most people that use Autocad around here are not =
using it=20
100% of the time. So there are up to 10 licenses available. =
When=20
10 copies are open, no one else can open Autocad. As we grow =
bigger=20
this is starting to become a slight problem, because additional =
licenses=20
cost an arm and a leg, so we are sticking with our current number of =
licenses, and not everyone gets on whenever they want anymore. =
</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2>Genny.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2>-----Original=20
Message-----<B><BR>From:</B> Phil Nutting=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B><BR>Sent:</B> December 5, 2001 =
8:34=20
AM<B><BR>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<B><BR>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Autocad =
sharing<BR></FONT><BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue =
size=3D2>Howard,</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3Dblue size=3D2>There is a package available from AutoDesk for =
running as=20
a network application. Now that you have "let the cat out of =
the bag"=20
about having more users than licenses I would be careful about your =
solution=20
as the Software Police are on the prowl. Several months ago =
there was=20
a huge media campaign with radio spots (and TV ads?) about running =
illegal=20
software in the Boston area. The cost of the legal copies or =
network=20
license (one for each user) is cheaper than the fines and penalties =
levied=20
by the Software Police.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue =
size=3D2>All it takes is=20
one phone call from a disgruntled employee or other person seeking =
to damage=20
your company. (I will not call !)</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
size=3D3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue =
size=3D2>An alternative=20
solution for your CAD needs is IntelliCAD=AE 2000 for Microsoft =
Windows by=20
IntelliCAD Technology Consortium. This can be found at =
</FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cadopia.com/"><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue=20
size=3D2><U>www.cadopia.com</U></FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblue size=3D2>.=20
We have purchased this for the same reason you want to share =
AutoCAD.=20
One caution is that, I noticed as an accomplished AutoCAD user, I =
found many=20
commands or control functions the same, but there were a few that =
defied=20
explanation.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D3> </FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2>Phil =
Nutting</FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT><BR><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue =
size=3D2><BR>[Phil=20
Nutting] </FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original=20
Message-----<B><BR>From:</B> Howard Watson=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B><BR>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December =
04, 2001=20
4:52 PM<B><BR>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<B><BR>Subject:</B> [TN] =
Autocad=20
sharing<BR></FONT><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Dear=20
Technetters,</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> =
<BR></FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Does anyone know of a sharing =
software that=20
allows users to share Autocad LT or 14 on a Novell network? We =
only=20
have 9 licenses available and many more people than that who need to =
use=20
Autocad, though some like myself only need it occasionally. I =
believe=20
that a share software would only allow 9 users access at one=20
time.</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> =
<BR></FONT><FONT=20
face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>If there is no such beast, is there a =
recommendation for a cheaper CAD package than AutoCAD LT, or one =
that is a=20
free download? Needless to say, spending is getting really =
tight.=20
Thanks in advance for the advice.</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
size=3D3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2><BR>Howard=20
Watson<BR>Manufacturing Engineer<BR>AMETEK/Dixson</FONT>=20
<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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=========================================================================
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:32:47 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SURFACE FINISHES
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As a vendor/supplier to the PCB fabricator industry, I may have some insight,
but since I do not actually build boards, I lack full understanding.
The ENIG process is the most nightmare process in making bare PCB's.
The ENIG process is unreliable, often producing rejects, at virtually the
last step in the process, thus costing $$$$. It is run at VERY high
temperatures, and is a nightmare to waste treat spent chemicals. (Other than
that, there is nothing wrong with it....:-)
This is ESPECIALLY true, if you hold the fabricator to tight specs on Nickle
thickness.
If I were building boards, I would discount hugely for any full immersion
process, like Tin or Silver, over ENIG.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:02:22 -0800
Reply-To: Greg Triggs <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Greg Triggs <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Peroxide Vs Chlorate Again
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Hello again
I guess some of the questions I have about Hydrogen =
Peroxide deal with stability and safety (explosive). If you please, want =
are your thoughts about this. Once again thank you.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello again</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p; =20
I guess some of the questions I have about Hydrogen Peroxide deal with =
stability=20
and safety (explosive). If you please, want are your thoughts about =
this. Once=20
again thank you.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:01:24 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SURFACE FINISHES
X-To: "Charles E. McMahon" <[log in to unmask]>
While agreeing with Rudy, I must say I go into many design and assembly
operations and first say something stupid like "oh, you're using ENIG or
HASL." Actually, I just get a little annoyed at these choices.
After being greeted, and having my pay check witheld, with something like
what's wrong with that, I say something more stupid like black pad is going
to get you or you'll have solderability problems. This all passes and my
check cashes, then the boards don't solder and I get to stay longer to get
more checks for solving problems that shouldn't have happened in the first
place. Anyway, way too many designers design in ENIG and HASL and way too
many asselblers pay the price. The whole thing is like some tribal custom
that's really hard to change.
Started using silver back in '96. Liked it then and like it now. Still like
OSP/OCC. Never used much tin but it seems fine according to all I've heard
on this forum and from others in industry.
What matters is what solders. That's the bottom line though it's all a
compromise in this business - from design through test and customer acceptance.
Earl
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:28:19 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Small PCBs in wash
X-To: [log in to unmask]
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Hi Mark!
We got some teeny-tiny boards here too, they're actually flex circuits with a
square stiffener that we assemble...just a little bigger than yours, but not
by much.
We have some baskets that are "homegrown". You can see a couple of pictures
at:
http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com
Look at "Basket open" and "Basket closed". Everything came from Home Depot,
and a couple hours time. Screen mesh is 1/4", and the frame and partitions is
just standard aluminum stock. Got some hinge material, some pop rivets, a few
screws with some wing-nuts, and viola'! Teeny-tiny board washing baskets!!!
They're about 12-inches by 8-inches and can hold 30 or so of the little
boards. Keeps them flat and from flying around...more importantly, keeps them
all in one place.
Actually been holding up pretty well...going on 10-11 months now...
-Steve Gregory-
> We're experiencing some damage to some small PCB's (0.75"x1.75") that occurs
> during their trip through the aqueous cleaner. The boards are originally
> processed in a panel but some require rework or additional processing once
> they have been depanelized.
>
> Can anyone suggest a method to secure these small boards inside the wash
> racks as to prevent this damage?
>
> Mark Charlton
>
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Mark!
<BR>
<BR>We got some teeny-tiny boards here too, they're actually flex circuits with a square stiffener that we assemble...just a little bigger than yours, but not by much.
<BR>
<BR>We have some baskets that are "homegrown". You can see a couple of pictures at:
<BR>
<BR>http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com
<BR>
<BR>Look at "Basket open" and "Basket closed". Everything came from Home Depot, and a couple hours time. Screen mesh is 1/4", and the frame and partitions is just standard aluminum stock. Got some hinge material, some pop rivets, a few screws with some wing-nuts, and viola'! Teeny-tiny board washing baskets!!! They're about 12-inches by 8-inches and can hold 30 or so of the little boards. Keeps them flat and from flying around...more importantly, keeps them all in one place.
<BR>
<BR>Actually been holding up pretty well...going on 10-11 months now...
<BR>
<BR>-Steve Gregory-
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">We're experiencing some damage to some small PCB's (0.75"x1.75") that occurs during their trip through the aqueous cleaner. The boards are originally processed in a panel but some require rework or additional processing once they have been depanelized.
<BR>
<BR>Can anyone suggest a method to secure these small boards inside the wash racks as to prevent this damage?
<BR>
<BR>Mark Charlton
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:07:25 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Peel Test Question
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
http://www.ipc.org/html/fsresources.htm
Go to IPC documents available for download, and then to the IPC-TM-650 link.
You may find what you need under mechanical test methods.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Christoffel [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 5, 2001 11:46 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Peel Test Question
I need to perform some type of "peel test" on my solderable board leads.
What's the best procedure to follow and where can I get a copy of it.
Thanks,
Bill C.
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:05:23 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Trammel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide vs. Sodium Chlorate
Hey Greg, long time no talk to. The most common oversight in comparing
peroxide and chlorate is understanding consumption and by-products
generated from the reaction. The reaction using peroxide generates 1 mole
of water for 1 mole of cupric chloride regenerated, the reaction using
sodium chlorate generates 1 mole of water for 2 moles of cupric chloride,
half as much water. Also, 1 mole of peroxide consumes 1 mole of copper
whereas 1 mole of sodium chlorate consumes 3 moles of copper. The volume
consumption of 50%by weight Hydrogen Peroxide is 3 times that of CuOx, e.g.
if a process consumes 100 gallons of peroxide per day, when switching to
chlorate they will only use app. 33 gallons of chlorate in the same
conditions. Given the other dilution and stabilization issues with peroxide
it is common for the consumption difference to be closer to 4 times that of
sodium chlorate.
Salt is a by-product generated in the chlorate reaction, which my of us add
over the side to increase etch rate.
Alot of water is generated in the peroxide reaction, which somtimes makes
it difficult to maintain Cu loading. Hope this helps,
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:16:06 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Gary McCauley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide vs. Sodium Chlorate
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Maybe I missed something here, but what is the concentration
of the sodium chlorate being used in this example?
I understand that you are talking about the water being
generated, not added, but wouldn't the amount of water coming
in with the 1 mole of sodium chlorate be a factor also?
gary mccauley
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Trammel [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 2:05 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Hydrogen Peroxide vs. Sodium Chlorate
Hey Greg, long time no talk to. The most common oversight in comparing
peroxide and chlorate is understanding consumption and by-products
generated from the reaction. The reaction using peroxide generates 1 mole
of water for 1 mole of cupric chloride regenerated, the reaction using
sodium chlorate generates 1 mole of water for 2 moles of cupric chloride,
half as much water. Also, 1 mole of peroxide consumes 1 mole of copper
whereas 1 mole of sodium chlorate consumes 3 moles of copper. The volume
consumption of 50%by weight Hydrogen Peroxide is 3 times that of CuOx, e.g.
if a process consumes 100 gallons of peroxide per day, when switching to
chlorate they will only use app. 33 gallons of chlorate in the same
conditions. Given the other dilution and stabilization issues with peroxide
it is common for the consumption difference to be closer to 4 times that of
sodium chlorate.
Salt is a by-product generated in the chlorate reaction, which my of us add
over the side to increase etch rate.
Alot of water is generated in the peroxide reaction, which somtimes makes
it difficult to maintain Cu loading. Hope this helps,
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:15:09 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jerry Mosur <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SiPAD
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Greetings,
Our assembly guys came across a PCB product called SiPAD. It is a patented
(by Siemens) way of adding a layer of SMD paste, then curing and leveling it
and finally spraying the whole board with a layer of flux. A layer of
protective paper is applied over the entire surface so the flux doesn't dry
out and stays tacky.
The claim to fame is that it is suppose to save one manufacturing step,
solder paste application.
Any comments?
Thanks in advance.
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:15:01 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Barmuta, Mike" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Small PCBs in wash
X-To: Mark Charlton <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Mark: For our small depanelized PCA's we place them in an open top wire mesh
basket. Then an expanded mesh(diamond pattern), notice that I did say wire
mesh, piece of sheet stock cut slightly under size of the basket dimensions
is placed over the top of the boards. The expanded mesh openings are @
25-50% smaller than the smallest PCA. This allows for ample water flow to
the parts for washing and rinsing but is heavy enough to prevent them from
jumping around in the spray rinse and drying sections.
If you are going for cheap you can use aluminum as long as it is compatible
with your wash chemistry if not go with SS. You may want to try a couple of
different material thickness' to make sure there is enough weight for your
application. Either way it is fairly inexpensive and should last a long
time. It is simple and does not require a lot of hardware and fooling
around.
Regards
Michael Barmuta
Staff Engineer
Fluke Corp.
Everett WA
425-446-6076
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Charlton [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 8:46 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Small PCBs in wash
Sorry, I left out one important detail. They are in baskets, the thinnest
(so I'm told) available. Perhaps some kind of mat or other mesh inside the
basket? Has to be inexpensive.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: Small PCBs in wash
Use baskets. I'll let Steve Z. or Moonman jump in since I can't remember who
makes 'em.
Jason Gregory
Software Specialist - NPI Group
SCI Systems/Plant 2
13000 S. Memorial Pkwy.
Huntsville, AL. 35803
(256) 882-4107 x3728
[log in to unmask]
>>> Mark Charlton <[log in to unmask]> 12/05/01 10:31AM >>>
We're experiencing some damage to some small PCB's (0.75"x1.75") that
occurs during their trip through the aqueous cleaner. The boards are
originally processed in a panel but some require rework or additional
processing once they have been depanelized.
Can anyone suggest a method to secure these small boards inside the wash
racks as to prevent this damage?
Mark Charlton
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:21:26 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SiPAD
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
What happens with double sided SMT which is becoming more prevalent?
Thanks,
Robert Furrow
Printed Wiring Board Engineer
Strategic Supply Global Account Manager
Supply Chain Networks
Lucent Technologies
978-960-3224 [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Mosur [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] SiPAD
Greetings,
Our assembly guys came across a PCB product called SiPAD. It is a patented
(by Siemens) way of adding a layer of SMD paste, then curing and leveling it
and finally spraying the whole board with a layer of flux. A layer of
protective paper is applied over the entire surface so the flux doesn't dry
out and stays tacky.
The claim to fame is that it is suppose to save one manufacturing step,
solder paste application.
Any comments?
Thanks in advance.
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:30:18 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SiPAD
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_DF82E017.42234E16"
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=_DF82E017.42234E16
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Sounds similar to a process I ran across in Houston in the early 90's late =
80's. The name used there was Opti pading. I don't believe it had a =
flux on it but I could be wrong (had a lot of fun in Houston, some tell =
me). Anyways the process was used with the old 386 qfp chip sets. The =
only issue we had was the variance in height from pad to pad, the =
tolerance that the pads had wasn't tight enough for the parts to stay =
aligned in reflow (IR at that time). =20
Well, I feel old now......
Kathy=20
--=_DF82E017.42234E16
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY
style="FONT: 10pt Abadi MT Condensed Light; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: 2px">
<DIV>Sounds similar to a process I ran across in Houston in the early 90's late
80's. The name used there was Opti pading. I don't believe it
had a flux on it but I could be wrong (had a lot of fun in Houston, some tell
me). Anyways the process was used with the old 386 qfp chip
sets. The only issue we had was the variance in height from pad to
pad, the tolerance that the pads had wasn't tight enough for the parts to
stay aligned in reflow (IR at that time). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Well, I feel old now......</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:43:42 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jerry Mosur <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SiPAD
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Good question.
Luckily we don't have a need for double sided SMT, we are just getting into
SS SMT.
On the other hand, it is somewhat difficult to design a 20kV power supply
with SMT components.
-----Original Message-----
From: Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob) [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] SiPAD
What happens with double sided SMT which is becoming more prevalent?
Thanks,
Robert Furrow
Printed Wiring Board Engineer
Strategic Supply Global Account Manager
Supply Chain Networks
Lucent Technologies
978-960-3224 [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Mosur [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] SiPAD
Greetings,
Our assembly guys came across a PCB product called SiPAD. It is a patented
(by Siemens) way of adding a layer of SMD paste, then curing and leveling it
and finally spraying the whole board with a layer of flux. A layer of
protective paper is applied over the entire surface so the flux doesn't dry
out and stays tacky.
The claim to fame is that it is suppose to save one manufacturing step,
solder paste application.
Any comments?
Thanks in advance.
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:53:58 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Neda Thrash <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SM Ceramic Caps - Touch-Up/Replacement
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Quite often I see the need to add solder to the end caps of surface =
mounted ceramic capacitors. Normally I would do this with hot air and =
solder paste because of the part being more heat sensitive but some of the =
touch up areas I go to only have soldering irons for rework. Assuming the =
operator is using the correct tip size for the part and the temp set at =
600 degrees F, does this pose a great threat to the component ( internal =
cracking from heat) ? =20
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:08:18 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SiPAD
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Jerry!
Haven't heard a whole lot about SiPAD, but know a little bit about something
called PPT (Precision Pad Technology). Was actually looking at it for some
potential business that we were possibly going to do. Check out:
http://www.masktek.com/our_products.htm
Again, this is also a patented process that forms solid solder deposits on
the SMT pads of the PCB, and then you apply a "Tacky Flux" to the pads to
provide the needed flux and to hold the components in place prior to reflow..
They make some impressive claims, and from some things I've heard in the
past, many of these claims are true. I have not had the opportunity to work
with PPT directly however...
*Macro-planar solid solder deposits (SSDs) on all SMT lands or pads;
*Controlled thicknesses of between .0007" - .010" as specified by the end
user;
*Uniformity of +/- .0002";
*Customer specified alloy;
*Densities to 8 mil pitch;
*Increased Shelf Life;
*Compatible with all commercially available solder masks;
*Excellent results with SMT, TAB, BGA, DCA and Chip Scale Packages;
*Eliminates solder balls, slumping and shorts;
*20-30% improved peel strength of solder joints;
*Compensates for lead coplanarity of +/- 7 mils.
*Produces a defined solder "gap";
*Improves line efficiency;
*Eliminates rework; and
*Enhances thermal performance of assemblies in the field.
-Steve Gregory-
> Greetings,
>
> Our assembly guys came across a PCB product called SiPAD. It is a patented
> (by Siemens) way of adding a layer of SMD paste, then curing and leveling it
> and finally spraying the whole board with a layer of flux. A layer of
> protective paper is applied over the entire surface so the flux doesn't dry
> out and stays tacky.
> The claim to fame is that it is suppose to save one manufacturing step,
> solder paste application.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
--part1_5a.2e2d840.293ff4d2_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Jerry!
<BR>
<BR>Haven't heard a whole lot about SiPAD, but know a little bit about something called PPT (Precision Pad Technology). Was actually looking at it for some potential business that we were possibly going to do. Check out:
<BR>
<BR>http://www.masktek.com/our_products.htm
<BR>
<BR>Again, this is also a patented process that forms solid solder deposits on the SMT pads of the PCB, and then you apply a "Tacky Flux" to the pads to provide the needed flux and to hold the components in place prior to reflow..
<BR>
<BR>They make some impressive claims, and from some things I've heard in the past, many of these claims are true. I have not had the opportunity to work with PPT directly however...
<BR>
<BR>*Macro-planar solid solder deposits (SSDs) on all SMT lands or pads;
<BR>*Controlled thicknesses of between .0007" - .010" as specified by the end user;
<BR>*Uniformity of +/- .0002";
<BR>*Customer specified alloy;
<BR>*Densities to 8 mil pitch;
<BR>*Increased Shelf Life;
<BR>*Compatible with all commercially available solder masks;
<BR>*Excellent results with SMT, TAB, BGA, DCA and Chip Scale Packages; </FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>*Eliminates solder balls, slumping and shorts;
<BR>*20-30% improved peel strength of solder joints;
<BR>*Compensates for lead coplanarity of +/- 7 mils.
<BR>*Produces a defined solder "gap";
<BR>*Improves line efficiency;
<BR>*Eliminates rework; and
<BR>*Enhances thermal performance of assemblies in the field.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>-Steve Gregory-
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Greetings,
<BR>
<BR>Our assembly guys came across a PCB product called SiPAD. It is a patented
<BR>(by Siemens) way of adding a layer of SMD paste, then curing and leveling it
<BR>and finally spraying the whole board with a layer of flux. A layer of
<BR>protective paper is applied over the entire surface so the flux doesn't dry
<BR>out and stays tacky.
<BR>The claim to fame is that it is suppose to save one manufacturing step,
<BR>solder paste application.
<BR>
<BR>Any comments?
<BR>
<BR>Thanks in advance.
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:07:07 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SiPAD
X-To: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Ah Kathy, you stir a mean pot as well. Houston will do that to anyone. Great
town. Old feels good when recalling how good that town felt.
To hell with technical content.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:11:26 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SM Ceramic Caps - Touch-Up/Replacement
X-To: Neda Thrash <[log in to unmask]>
Of course rework is one thing and touch up is another. In either event,
depending on parts, a dangerous proposition at best. Controlled tip vital no
matter the part or tip temp.
Earl Moon
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:59:03 -0500
Reply-To: Ed Valentine <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ed Valentine <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Electronics Manufacturing Solutions
Subject: Re: SM Ceramic Caps - Touch-Up/Replacement
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Neda -
Touching up chip caps with a soldering iron is a very risky proposition. The
problem is the rapid temperature delta between the point where the tip
touches the cap and the rest of the component. You can easily cause
microcracking internal to the capacitor that would not initially be visible
and would probably pass all your testing. However, it is a latent failure
mechanism especially with high bulk capacitors such as those with a Z5U
dielectric.
As an analogy, think of the glass windshield on your car. If you get a small
crack in it, the crack will gradually grow even with relatively slow
temperature changes. Ceramic and glass have very similar thermal properties.
Hot air provides a much more even temperature delta and a slower ramp rate
to solder liquidous, and the process will be somewhat slower. Obviously, if
you are throwing away the cap as opposed to touching up, use whatever heat
source you want as long as you don't overheat or burn the board.
Ed Valentine
Electronics Manufacturing Solutions
8612 Mourning Dove Road, Raleigh, NC 27615
Phone: (919) 270-5145, Fax: (919) 847-9971
Email: [log in to unmask]
Website: http://www.ems-consulting.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neda Thrash" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:53 PM
Subject: [TN] SM Ceramic Caps - Touch-Up/Replacement
Quite often I see the need to add solder to the end caps of surface mounted
ceramic capacitors. Normally I would do this with hot air and solder paste
because of the part being more heat sensitive but some of the touch up areas
I go to only have soldering irons for rework. Assuming the operator is using
the correct tip size for the part and the temp set at 600 degrees F, does
this pose a great threat to the component ( internal cracking from heat) ?
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:20:57 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SiPAD
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Jerry,
The three built-up types I know of are Optipad, SiPAD and PPT. They were
invented by, I think, DuPont, Siemens and Mask Technology Inc. The former
two are fairly similar, the latter involves drawing solder to pads with a
stainless steel mesh put across the board. Nortel Networks used the latter
to deal with a tricky situation where a placement machine was flinging parts
around combined with an inability to put solder paste on the secondary side.
regards,
Bev Christian
Research in Motion
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Mosur [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 5, 2001 4:44 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] SiPAD
Good question.
Luckily we don't have a need for double sided SMT, we are just getting into
SS SMT.
On the other hand, it is somewhat difficult to design a 20kV power supply
with SMT components.
-----Original Message-----
From: Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob) [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] SiPAD
What happens with double sided SMT which is becoming more prevalent?
Thanks,
Robert Furrow
Printed Wiring Board Engineer
Strategic Supply Global Account Manager
Supply Chain Networks
Lucent Technologies
978-960-3224 [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Mosur [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] SiPAD
Greetings,
Our assembly guys came across a PCB product called SiPAD. It is a patented
(by Siemens) way of adding a layer of SMD paste, then curing and leveling it
and finally spraying the whole board with a layer of flux. A layer of
protective paper is applied over the entire surface so the flux doesn't dry
out and stays tacky.
The claim to fame is that it is suppose to save one manufacturing step,
solder paste application.
Any comments?
Thanks in advance.
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:30:06 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SiPAD
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Bev:
Based on what you have seen of the PPT and at NORTEL specifically, is it a
viable alternative to stencil application of paste for pitches under.020.
One of my board resources has utilized this for a client and it has worked
nicely and as advertised.
Have you has success with this technique?
Charlie McMahon
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Bev Christian
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 6:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] SiPAD
Jerry,
The three built-up types I know of are Optipad, SiPAD and PPT. They were
invented by, I think, DuPont, Siemens and Mask Technology Inc. The former
two are fairly similar, the latter involves drawing solder to pads with a
stainless steel mesh put across the board. Nortel Networks used the latter
to deal with a tricky situation where a placement machine was flinging parts
around combined with an inability to put solder paste on the secondary side.
regards,
Bev Christian
Research in Motion
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Mosur [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 5, 2001 4:44 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] SiPAD
Good question.
Luckily we don't have a need for double sided SMT, we are just getting into
SS SMT.
On the other hand, it is somewhat difficult to design a 20kV power supply
with SMT components.
-----Original Message-----
From: Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob) [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] SiPAD
What happens with double sided SMT which is becoming more prevalent?
Thanks,
Robert Furrow
Printed Wiring Board Engineer
Strategic Supply Global Account Manager
Supply Chain Networks
Lucent Technologies
978-960-3224 [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Mosur [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] SiPAD
Greetings,
Our assembly guys came across a PCB product called SiPAD. It is a patented
(by Siemens) way of adding a layer of SMD paste, then curing and leveling it
and finally spraying the whole board with a layer of flux. A layer of
protective paper is applied over the entire surface so the flux doesn't dry
out and stays tacky.
The claim to fame is that it is suppose to save one manufacturing step,
solder paste application.
Any comments?
Thanks in advance.
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:39:05 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide vs. Sodium Chlorate
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Without the right equipment for addition of Hydrogen Peroxide, addition to
Cupric Etchers can be wasteful, and perhaps more exciting than you want it to
be.
Copper is a catalyst for decomposition of Peroxide, so you add it only by
pumping it in SLOWLY, in a system designed for the purpose.
Either can give you highly unpleasant results if added in excess, so, have A
LOT of mixing, and a well set up ORP measurement.
Beyond that, the Hydrogen Peroxide produces only water as a by product,
whereas Sodium Chlorate produces Sodium Chloride (Salt) as byproduct, and
this may affect how you can dispose of spent. In theory, using Hydrogen
Peroxide produces pure Cupric Chloride solution, which, in theory has
commercial value as is.
Good luck
Rudy Sedlak
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:44:51 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Stability
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Peroxide CAN BE kinda scarey stuff.
Peroxide, by itself, as received, in the original container, and kept under
100, or so, is nothing to be scared of.....however, when mixed with Copper,
even in small amounts, it can go away (decompose) into water and Oxygen gas
and if mixed with relatively large amounts of Copper, as it is in an etch
replenisher, it can be more exciting than you want it to be.
However, remember also, that with the correctly designed introduction
equipment, this stuff can run forever with not a hitch, and is and has been.
The key is to talk to people who have designed this kind of stuff, they have
figured it out real nicely.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:40:20 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Rockhill, Andrew" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Surge current ratings of PCB traces
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I am looking for information regarding surge current ratings of PCB traces.
I am familiar with the IPC curves (IPC-D-275 which is now IPC-2221) for
steady-state temp rise of a given trace geometry. I am also familiar with
the NEC cable ampacity ratings. I have browsed through archives and have
found some interesting posts on the subject by Ralph Hersey on 4.11.96 and
Bill Gaines on 4.8.96, but wonder if anyone knows of any additional
information.
I am trying to ensure that a given trace geometry will be protected by given
fuse. The fuse will conduct an extreme amount of current for a short amount
of time (the i^2t curve). I would like to find information that would allow
me to calculate the i^2t for a trace geometry. The equation produced in
Bill Gaines' posting...
I=A * ((log(((Tm-Ta)/234+Ta)+1))/(33 * S)) **.5
I=current, Ampers, A=conductor area, cir mils, S=time current applied,
seconds, Tm=melting point of copper in dec C, Ta= ambient Temp in deg C.
does not seem to take into account any heatsinking or thermal impedance
presented by the PC board and or copper located around it.
Therefore, I am led to believe that a definitive "theoretical" answer would
most like require the use of computational fluid dynamics or other thermal
simulation technique. I am wondering, however, if others have run into this
issue and how they may have reconciled the various empirical and/or
theoretical resources.
Thanks,
__________________________
Andrew A. Rockhill, P.E.
Sr. Analog Design Engineer
Plexus Technology Group
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:53:55 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Stella Neyman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Platinum/Palladium/Silver plating
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear technetts, Please help me out.
We are introducing new custom made SMT component: Medium size (approx. 0.5"
x 0.200") with 2 ceramic terminations that plated with Pt/Pd/Ag coating.
Solder paste for our reflow process is 63Sn/37Pb NC low residue. Reflow
profile is standard for this paste reflow peak temp of 220-225 deg C and 50
sec above 183 deg C.
We are experiencing non-wetting conditions on components terminations, some
solder joints cracked during thermocycling testing.
Does anybody experience problem with Pt/Pd/Ag coating over ceramic
substrate?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely
Stella Neyman
Jabil Circuit, MI
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 19:00:14 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SiPAD
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Charles,
The work was carried out in one of the US plants, not in the Canadian one I
worked at, although I did take a tour when the boards were running. The
people seemed to be very happy with the results. I was told they would not
have been able to make the product otherwise. For sure there were no
pitches less than 20 mil.
regards,
Bev Christian
Research in Motion
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles McMahon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 5, 2001 6:30 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] SiPAD
Bev:
Based on what you have seen of the PPT and at NORTEL specifically, is it a
viable alternative to stencil application of paste for pitches under.020.
One of my board resources has utilized this for a client and it has worked
nicely and as advertised.
Have you has success with this technique?
Charlie McMahon
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Bev Christian
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 6:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] SiPAD
Jerry,
The three built-up types I know of are Optipad, SiPAD and PPT. They were
invented by, I think, DuPont, Siemens and Mask Technology Inc. The former
two are fairly similar, the latter involves drawing solder to pads with a
stainless steel mesh put across the board. Nortel Networks used the latter
to deal with a tricky situation where a placement machine was flinging parts
around combined with an inability to put solder paste on the secondary side.
regards,
Bev Christian
Research in Motion
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Mosur [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 5, 2001 4:44 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] SiPAD
Good question.
Luckily we don't have a need for double sided SMT, we are just getting into
SS SMT.
On the other hand, it is somewhat difficult to design a 20kV power supply
with SMT components.
-----Original Message-----
From: Furrow, Robert Gordon (Bob) [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] SiPAD
What happens with double sided SMT which is becoming more prevalent?
Thanks,
Robert Furrow
Printed Wiring Board Engineer
Strategic Supply Global Account Manager
Supply Chain Networks
Lucent Technologies
978-960-3224 [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Mosur [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] SiPAD
Greetings,
Our assembly guys came across a PCB product called SiPAD. It is a patented
(by Siemens) way of adding a layer of SMD paste, then curing and leveling it
and finally spraying the whole board with a layer of flux. A layer of
protective paper is applied over the entire surface so the flux doesn't dry
out and stays tacky.
The claim to fame is that it is suppose to save one manufacturing step,
solder paste application.
Any comments?
Thanks in advance.
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:55:22 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Sean Clinton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide vs. Sodium Chlorate
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Greg,
The other down side to the peroxide approach, aside from the consumption
volume difference and stability of the peroxide itself, is that if you
overdose the system with peroxide, large amounts of chlorine gas will be
evolved...a dangerous proposition.
The balanced reaction is:
H2O2 + 2HCL + Cu --> CuCl2 + 2H2O
Excess peroxide will react with free HCl acid to create water and free
chlorine gas: (1:2 mole ratio)
(H2O2 + 2HCl --> 2H2O +Cl2)
So an excess peroxide reaction is:
2H2O2 + 4HCl + Cu --> CuCl2 + 4H2O + Cl2
Sorry about the font layout...I can't do subscripts in Eudora.
At 02:05 PM 12/5/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Hey Greg, long time no talk to. The most common oversight in comparing
>peroxide and chlorate is understanding consumption and by-products
>generated from the reaction. The reaction using peroxide generates 1 mole
>of water for 1 mole of cupric chloride regenerated, the reaction using
>sodium chlorate generates 1 mole of water for 2 moles of cupric chloride,
>half as much water. Also, 1 mole of peroxide consumes 1 mole of copper
>whereas 1 mole of sodium chlorate consumes 3 moles of copper. The volume
>consumption of 50%by weight Hydrogen Peroxide is 3 times that of CuOx, e.g.
>if a process consumes 100 gallons of peroxide per day, when switching to
>chlorate they will only use app. 33 gallons of chlorate in the same
>conditions. Given the other dilution and stabilization issues with peroxide
>it is common for the consumption difference to be closer to 4 times that of
>sodium chlorate.
>
>Salt is a by-product generated in the chlorate reaction, which my of us add
>over the side to increase etch rate.
>
>Alot of water is generated in the peroxide reaction, which somtimes makes
>it difficult to maintain Cu loading. Hope this helps,
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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<html>
Greg,<br>
<br>
The other down side to the peroxide approach, aside from the consumption
volume difference and stability of the peroxide itself, is that if you
overdose the system with peroxide, large amounts of chlorine gas will be
evolved...a dangerous proposition. <br>
<br>
The balanced reaction is:<br>
H2O2 + 2HCL + Cu --> CuCl2 + 2H2O<br>
<br>
Excess peroxide will react with free HCl acid to create water and free
chlorine gas: (1:2 mole ratio)<br>
(H2O2 + 2HCl --> 2H2O +Cl2)<br>
<br>
So an excess peroxide reaction is:<br>
<b>2</b>H2O2 + <b>4</b>HCl + Cu --> CuCl2 + <b>4</b>H2O + <b>Cl2
<br>
<br>
</b>Sorry about the font layout...I can't do subscripts in Eudora.<br>
<br>
<br>
At 02:05 PM 12/5/01 -0600, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Hey Greg, long time no talk to. The
most common oversight in comparing<br>
peroxide and chlorate is understanding consumption and by-products<br>
generated from the reaction. The reaction using peroxide generates 1
mole<br>
of water for 1 mole of cupric chloride regenerated, the reaction
using<br>
sodium chlorate generates 1 mole of water for 2 moles of cupric
chloride,<br>
half as much water. Also, 1 mole of peroxide consumes 1 mole of
copper<br>
whereas 1 mole of sodium chlorate consumes 3 moles of copper. The
volume<br>
consumption of 50%by weight Hydrogen Peroxide is 3 times that of CuOx,
e.g.<br>
if a process consumes 100 gallons of peroxide per day, when switching
to<br>
chlorate they will only use app. 33 gallons of chlorate in the same<br>
conditions. Given the other dilution and stabilization issues with
peroxide<br>
it is common for the consumption difference to be closer to 4 times that
of<br>
sodium chlorate.<br>
<br>
Salt is a by-product generated in the chlorate reaction, which my of us
add<br>
over the side to increase etch rate.<br>
<br>
Alot of water is generated in the peroxide reaction, which somtimes
makes<br>
it difficult to maintain Cu loading. Hope this helps,<br>
<br>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:04:45 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Gary McCauley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide vs. Sodium Chlorate
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Any of the systems, if overdosed, can and will release chlorine gas.
I know, I have done it with two of the types.
[Gary McCauley]
----Original Message-----
From: Sean Clinton [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 5:55 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Hydrogen Peroxide vs. Sodium Chlorate
Greg,
The other down side to the peroxide approach, aside from the consumption
volume difference and stability of the peroxide itself, is that if you
overdose the system with peroxide, large amounts of chlorine gas will be
evolved...a dangerous proposition.
The balanced reaction is:
H2O2 + 2HCL + Cu --> CuCl2 + 2H2O
Excess peroxide will react with free HCl acid to create water and free
chlorine gas: (1:2 mole ratio)
(H2O2 + 2HCl --> 2H2O +Cl2)
So an excess peroxide reaction is:
2H2O2 + 4HCl + Cu --> CuCl2 + 4H2O + Cl2
Sorry about the font layout...I can't do subscripts in Eudora.
At 02:05 PM 12/5/01 -0600, you wrote:
Hey Greg, long time no talk to. The most common oversight in comparing
peroxide and chlorate is understanding consumption and by-products
generated from the reaction. The reaction using peroxide generates 1 mole
of water for 1 mole of cupric chloride regenerated, the reaction using
sodium chlorate generates 1 mole of water for 2 moles of cupric chloride,
half as much water. Also, 1 mole of peroxide consumes 1 mole of copper
whereas 1 mole of sodium chlorate consumes 3 moles of copper. The volume
consumption of 50%by weight Hydrogen Peroxide is 3 times that of CuOx, e.g.
if a process consumes 100 gallons of peroxide per day, when switching to
chlorate they will only use app. 33 gallons of chlorate in the same
conditions. Given the other dilution and stabilization issues with peroxide
it is common for the consumption difference to be closer to 4 times that of
sodium chlorate.
Salt is a by-product generated in the chlorate reaction, which my of us add
over the side to increase etch rate.
Alot of water is generated in the peroxide reaction, which somtimes makes
it difficult to maintain Cu loading. Hope this helps,
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<DIV><SPAN class=336540400-06122001></SPAN><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>A<SPAN class=336540400-06122001>ny of the systems, if
overdosed, can and will release chlorine gas.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=336540400-06122001></SPAN><SPAN
class=336540400-06122001></SPAN><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=2>I<SPAN class=336540400-06122001> know, I have done it with two of the
types.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=336540400-06122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><BR><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=336540400-06122001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>[Gary
McCauley] </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=336540400-06122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><SPAN class=336540400-06122001> </SPAN>----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Sean Clinton
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 05, 2001 5:55
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Hydrogen Peroxide
vs. Sodium Chlorate<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">Greg,<BR><BR>The other down side
to the peroxide approach, aside from the consumption volume difference and
stability of the peroxide itself, is that if you overdose the system with
peroxide, large amounts of chlorine gas will be evolved...a dangerous
proposition. <BR><BR>The balanced reaction is:<BR>H2O2 + 2HCL + Cu
--> CuCl2 + 2H2O<BR><BR>Excess peroxide will react with free HCl acid to
create water and free chlorine gas: (1:2 mole ratio)<BR>(H2O2 + 2HCl -->
2H2O +Cl2)<BR><BR>So an excess peroxide reaction is:<BR><B>2</B>H2O2 +
<B>4</B>HCl + Cu --> CuCl2 + <B>4</B>H2O + <B>Cl2 <BR><BR></B>Sorry
about the font layout...I can't do subscripts in Eudora.<BR><BR><BR>At 02:05
PM 12/5/01 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite type="cite">Hey Greg, long time no talk to. The
most common oversight in comparing<BR>peroxide and chlorate is understanding
consumption and by-products<BR>generated from the reaction. The reaction
using peroxide generates 1 mole<BR>of water for 1 mole of cupric chloride
regenerated, the reaction using<BR>sodium chlorate generates 1 mole of water
for 2 moles of cupric chloride,<BR>half as much water. Also, 1 mole of
peroxide consumes 1 mole of copper<BR>whereas 1 mole of sodium chlorate
consumes 3 moles of copper. The volume<BR>consumption of 50%by weight
Hydrogen Peroxide is 3 times that of CuOx, e.g.<BR>if a process consumes 100
gallons of peroxide per day, when switching to<BR>chlorate they will only
use app. 33 gallons of chlorate in the same<BR>conditions. Given the other
dilution and stabilization issues with peroxide<BR>it is common for the
consumption difference to be closer to 4 times that of<BR>sodium
chlorate.<BR><BR>Salt is a by-product generated in the chlorate reaction,
which my of us add<BR>over the side to increase etch rate.<BR><BR>Alot of
water is generated in the peroxide reaction, which somtimes makes<BR>it
difficult to maintain Cu loading. Hope this
helps,<BR><BR>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Technet
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:17:51 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Peter George Duncan>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Not technical - so delete before reading if not inclined
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Belvedere!
Earl Moon
<[log in to unmask] To: [log in to unmask]
M.COM> cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
Sent by: Aero/ST Group)
TechNet Subject: Re: [TN] Not technical - so delete
<[log in to unmask] before reading if not inclined
ORG>
12/05/01
09:15 PM
Please
respond to
"TechNet
E-Mail
Forum."
Now Bev, doesn't that feel better. The whole planet now knows you are
married, to a woman this time, that you are a guy, and Chris is a gal.
Steve
and Rudy can now relax as well. You should have done this years ago but I
think you liked the confusion it caused.
Still don't know for what Bev is short. I mean, as long as we're getting
deep into Bev's personal life now, I might as well pose the question. My
money is on Bevard. Any other takers?
And, concerning this message's technical content, I echo Mike Fenner's
comments to me off line about everything eventually turns to plastic. I
can't remember the question but I think it started with rust and went
downhill from there.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 20:01:15 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Was:SiPAD, Now: Leaded component pitch...
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Hi All!
Bev just sparked a question that I get asked occasionally, what is the finest
pitch that we can place. Our machines are spec'd to do 12-mil, but in reality
I've never run across leaded components that are that fine...occasional
15.7-mil ONCE in a great while, but mostly 20-mil pitch stuff...
Is that what ya'll see too? Passives seem to be getting smaller quicker than
active devices from what I've been seeing watching the industry info...
Haven't had to deal with 0201's yet (knocking on wood)...just curious is all.
-Steve Gregory-
> Charles,
> The work was carried out in one of the US plants, not in the Canadian one I
> worked at, although I did take a tour when the boards were running. The
> people seemed to be very happy with the results. I was told they would not
> have been able to make the product otherwise. For sure there were no
> pitches less than 20 mil.
>
>
> regards,
> Bev Christian
> Research in Motion
>
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi All!<BR>
<BR>
Bev just sparked a question that I get asked occasionally, what is the finest pitch that we can place. Our machines are spec'd to do 12-mil, but in reality I've never run across leaded components that are that fine...occasional 15.7-mil ONCE in a great while, but mostly 20-mil pitch stuff...<BR>
<BR>
Is that what ya'll see too? Passives seem to be getting smaller quicker than active devices from what I've been seeing watching the industry info...<BR>
<BR>
Haven't had to deal with 0201's yet (knocking on wood)...just curious is all.<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Charles,<BR>
The work was carried out in one of the US plants, not in the Canadian one I<BR>
worked at, although I did take a tour when the boards were running. The<BR>
people seemed to be very happy with the results. I was told they would not<BR>
have been able to make the product otherwise. For sure there were no<BR>
pitches less than 20 mil.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
regards,<BR>
Bev Christian<BR>
Research in Motion<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 21:48:12 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Need for Statistical Reliability Consultant
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi All,
A client of mine has needs for a consultant on the following subjects all
related to statistical reliability analysis, not physics-of-failure
reliability which is my specialty. Specifcally they need input on:
1. DFMEA & FTA
2. Derating
3. Redundance design
4. Tolerance design and analysis
5. Software reliability
6. Reliability prediction and allocation
7. Reliability evaluation and validation
Werner Engelmaier
Engelmaier Associates, L.C.
Electronic Packaging, Interconnection and Reliability Consulting
7 Jasmine Run
Ormond Beach, FL 32174 USA
Phone: 386-437-8747, Fax: 386-437-8737
E-mail: [log in to unmask], Website: www.engelmaier.com
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:58:22 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Was:SiPAD, Now: Leaded component pitch...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C17DE0.57024F40"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C17DE0.57024F40
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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We do 20 pitch fairly routinely, rarely a 16 pitch. But then again our =
0201 have 0.008" gap between component pads. So, that's 8 pitch. And =
even 0402 are 18 pitch.
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Stephen R. Gregory=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] Was:SiPAD, Now: Leaded component pitch...
Hi All!
Bev just sparked a question that I get asked occasionally, what is the =
finest pitch that we can place. Our machines are spec'd to do 12-mil, =
but in reality I've never run across leaded components that are that =
fine...occasional 15.7-mil ONCE in a great while, but mostly 20-mil =
pitch stuff...
Is that what ya'll see too? Passives seem to be getting smaller =
quicker than active devices from what I've been seeing watching the =
industry info...
Haven't had to deal with 0201's yet (knocking on wood)...just curious =
is all.
-Steve Gregory-
Charles,
The work was carried out in one of the US plants, not in the =
Canadian one I
worked at, although I did take a tour when the boards were running. =
The
people seemed to be very happy with the results. I was told they =
would not
have been able to make the product otherwise. For sure there were =
no
pitches less than 20 mil.
regards,
Bev Christian
Research in Motion
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C17DE0.57024F40
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We do 20 pitch fairly routinely, rarely =
a 16=20
pitch. But then again our 0201 have 0.008" gap between component=20
pads. So, that's 8 pitch. And even 0402 are 18 =
pitch.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dave Fish</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" [log in to unmask]>Stephen =
R.=20
Gregory</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=20
[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 05, =
2001 5:01=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Was:SiPAD, =
Now: Leaded=20
component pitch...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Hi =
All!<BR><BR>Bev just=20
sparked a question that I get asked occasionally, what is the finest =
pitch=20
that we can place. Our machines are spec'd to do 12-mil, but in =
reality I've=20
never run across leaded components that are that fine...occasional =
15.7-mil=20
ONCE in a great while, but mostly 20-mil pitch stuff...<BR><BR>Is that =
what=20
ya'll see too? Passives seem to be getting smaller quicker than active =
devices=20
from what I've been seeing watching the industry =
info...<BR><BR>Haven't had to=20
deal with 0201's yet (knocking on wood)...just curious is =
all.<BR><BR>-Steve=20
Gregory-<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE">Charles,<BR>The work was carried out in one of the US =
plants,=20
not in the Canadian one I<BR>worked at, although I did take a tour =
when the=20
boards were running. The<BR>people seemed to be very happy =
with the=20
results. I was told they would not<BR>have been able to make the =
product=20
otherwise. For sure there were no<BR>pitches less than 20=20
mil.<BR><BR><BR>regards,<BR>Bev Christian<BR>Research in=20
=
Motion<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:32:49 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Optical comparator
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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What is the use of an optical comparator with regard to PCB inspection?
What can it measure, and to what typical accuracy?
And what are some of the common machine brands available in the market?
Rgds,
Peter
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:24:33 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Edward Szpruch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide vs. Sodium Chlorate
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I am using peroxide regeneration for a long time,but I made a lot of =
trials
with Sodium Perchlorate.
At the end I found peroxide easier to operate,mainly due to influence =
of
changes in composition of the oxidisers.
Rudy is right: peroxide regeneration produces no by-product,perchlorate =
does
produce sodium chloride,which affect etching rate.
Chemistry control is based on independent control of 3 factors:
oxidiser by ORP
HCl by conductivity
Copper ballance by specific gravity ( addition of water from acid =
rinse)
If the are some variations in concentration of incoming =
perchlorate,this
will result fluctuations in sodium chloride concentration and copper
concentration ( specific gravity can not differentiate between =
them).With
peroxide I can switch from 50% to 35% and I do not need to change setup =
of
control/dosing equipment.
Of course someone can switch to different controll system ( photometric
controll of copper+1 instead of ORP) and this allow to run the =
chemistry on
very low acid concentration.
Each system,does no matter which one, depends on control system: very =
good
mixing,properly sized dosing system and measuring system located in the =
way
, that allow fast respond to chemical changes.
But running any of system based on 1 control parameter ( e.g. specific
gravity ) and operate 3 dosing pumps on pre-set ratios - this is a =
mess.
The last: here,in Israel, peroxide is easy available.Sodium Perchlorate =
is
rather rare and expensive.
Edward
Edward Szpruch
Eltek Ltd
P.O.Box 159 ; 49101 Petah Tikva Israel
Tel ++972 3 9395050 , Fax ++972 3 9309581
e-mail [log in to unmask]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary McCauley [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: =E4 =E3=F6=EE=E1=F8 06 2001 2:05
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Hydrogen Peroxide vs. Sodium Chlorate
>=20
> Any of the systems, if overdosed, can and will release chlorine gas.
> I know, I have done it with two of the types.
>=20
> [Gary McCauley]=20
> =20
> ----Original Message-----
> From: Sean Clinton [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 5:55 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Hydrogen Peroxide vs. Sodium Chlorate
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Greg,
> =09
> The other down side to the peroxide approach, aside from the
> consumption volume difference and stability of the peroxide itself, =
is
> that if you overdose the system with peroxide, large amounts of =
chlorine
> gas will be evolved...a dangerous proposition. =20
> =09
> The balanced reaction is:
> H2O2 + 2HCL + Cu --> CuCl2 + 2H2O
> =09
> Excess peroxide will react with free HCl acid to create water and
> free chlorine gas: (1:2 mole ratio)
> (H2O2 + 2HCl --> 2H2O +Cl2)
> =09
> So an excess peroxide reaction is:
> 2H2O2 + 4HCl + Cu --> CuCl2 + 4H2O + Cl2 =20
> =09
> Sorry about the font layout...I can't do subscripts in Eudora.
> =09
> =09
> At 02:05 PM 12/5/01 -0600, you wrote:
> =09
>=20
> Hey Greg, long time no talk to. The most common oversight in
> comparing
> peroxide and chlorate is understanding consumption and
> by-products
> generated from the reaction. The reaction using peroxide
> generates 1 mole
> of water for 1 mole of cupric chloride regenerated, the
> reaction using
> sodium chlorate generates 1 mole of water for 2 moles of
> cupric chloride,
> half as much water. Also, 1 mole of peroxide consumes 1 mole
> of copper
> whereas 1 mole of sodium chlorate consumes 3 moles of
> copper. The volume
> consumption of 50%by weight Hydrogen Peroxide is 3 times
> that of CuOx, e.g.
> if a process consumes 100 gallons of peroxide per day, when
> switching to
> chlorate they will only use app. 33 gallons of chlorate in
> the same
> conditions. Given the other dilution and stabilization
> issues with peroxide
> it is common for the consumption difference to be closer to
> 4 times that of
> sodium chlorate.
> =09
> Salt is a by-product generated in the chlorate reaction,
> which my of us add
> over the side to increase etch rate.
> =09
> Alot of water is generated in the peroxide reaction, which
> somtimes makes
> it difficult to maintain Cu loading. Hope this helps,
> =09
> =09
> =
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> -------
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> =09
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> -------=20
>=20
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:53:05 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Stability
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Rudy
A redox controlled system can be kept perfectly stable with zero risk of
either oxygen or chlorine formation. The secret is to have the redox
electrode with a motor-driven wiper to keep it clean.
Brian
"" wrote:
>
> Peroxide CAN BE kinda scarey stuff.
>
> Peroxide, by itself, as received, in the original container, and kept under
> 100, or so, is nothing to be scared of.....however, when mixed with Copper,
> even in small amounts, it can go away (decompose) into water and Oxygen gas
> and if mixed with relatively large amounts of Copper, as it is in an etch
> replenisher, it can be more exciting than you want it to be.
>
> However, remember also, that with the correctly designed introduction
> equipment, this stuff can run forever with not a hitch, and is and has been.
>
> The key is to talk to people who have designed this kind of stuff, they have
> figured it out real nicely.
>
> Rudy Sedlak
> RD Chemical Company
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:18:37 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Platinum/Palladium/Silver plating
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Stella,
you may look at Texas Instruments page, there you will find an article about
this finish and recommendations how to deal with that. It may be of some
help.
Good luck
Wolfgang
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stella Neyman [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 12:54 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Platinum/Palladium/Silver plating
>
>
> Dear technetts, Please help me out.
> We are introducing new custom made SMT component: Medium size
> (approx. 0.5"
> x 0.200") with 2 ceramic terminations that plated with
> Pt/Pd/Ag coating.
> Solder paste for our reflow process is 63Sn/37Pb NC low
> residue. Reflow
> profile is standard for this paste reflow peak temp of
> 220-225 deg C and 50
> sec above 183 deg C.
> We are experiencing non-wetting conditions on components
> terminations, some
> solder joints cracked during thermocycling testing.
> Does anybody experience problem with Pt/Pd/Ag coating over ceramic
> substrate?
> Any information would be greatly appreciated.
> Sincerely
> Stella Neyman
> Jabil Circuit, MI
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
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> -------------------
>
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:23:11 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Busko, Wolfgang" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SiPAD
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Jerry,
you should look at the specs regarding the hight you reach when the deposit
is melting and becoming convex again. Does this specified hight comply with
components coplanarity tolerances ?
This made me think about this technology ...
Wolfgang
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Mosur [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:15 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] SiPAD
>
>
> Greetings,
>
> Our assembly guys came across a PCB product called SiPAD. It
> is a patented
> (by Siemens) way of adding a layer of SMD paste, then curing
> and leveling it
> and finally spraying the whole board with a layer of flux. A layer of
> protective paper is applied over the entire surface so the
> flux doesn't dry
> out and stays tacky.
> The claim to fame is that it is suppose to save one
> manufacturing step,
> solder paste application.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
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> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
>
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:31:47 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <[log in to unmask]>
From: Matthias Mansfeld <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Matthias Mansfeld Elektronik
Subject: Re: Optical comparator
In-Reply-To: <005801c17e1f$d34401e0$1bcbb440@cr70a>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On 5 Dec 01 at 22:32, Peter Lee wrote:
> What is the use of an optical comparator with regard to PCB inspection?
> What can it measure, and to what typical accuracy?
As far as I saw this stuff on trade fairs: It is a device for easy comparison
aganst a "golden" board by either switching optically ( or iuf it is
camera based, electrically) between the views golden bd and the bd to be
checked. Then the operator can see missing parts or other differences
"blinking" in the eyepieces/displays.
Regards
Matthias Mansfeld
-----------------------------------------------
Matthias Mansfeld Elektronik
* Leiterplattenlayout, Bestueckung
Am Langhoelzl 11, 85540 Haar; Tel.: 089/4620 093-7, Fax: -8
Internet: http://www.mansfeld-elektronik.de
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:56:02 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Eric Dawson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Rust Removal
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi All,
The proprietary preparations are usually based on ortho-phosphoric acid in a
jel matrix. It turns the iron oxide to iron phosphate which is black.
Yes, you can paint over it but beware, if you don't dry it thoroughly the
rust just starts up again, breaks out of the paint layer and there it goes
again. I have early experiences of owning old (sorry, Classic) cars and
fighting a never ending battle with rust. I rebuilt my Frogeye Sprite twice
because I didn't get it right first time, mind you, having an argument with
a Ford Escort didn't help.
Regards
Eric Dawson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Sewell [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 2:04 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Rust Removal
>
> Speaking of Naval Jelly and things automotive, they do sell a rust
> converter that is supposed to tranform rust into a blend of "magnetite,
> and other inert substances..." You can shape and paint over the resulting
> black mess where your rust was/is. Just do a web search.
>
> Dunno if this has been mentioned or helps,
> Mike Sewell
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 07:10:39 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Creswick, Steven" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Platinum/Palladium/Silver plating
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Stella,
The Pt/Pd/Ag coating is most likely a conventional thick film metallization
which is a combination of glass frits and metal particulates.
With respect to non-wetting - first verify that the components have been
properly stored (dry and away from cardboard). Are the terminations a dull
stainless steel razor blade color, or are they more black in color?
Anything more dull that the razor blade color may spell problems for you.
I believe the Pt/Pd/Ag's are more prone to wetting issues that the Pd/Ag's,
but the Pd/Ag's are more prone to leaching!!
You might also check to verify that it is indeed non-wetting and not
leaching of the conductor from the surface, yielding a non-wettable
(ceramic) surface beneath. If leaching was the case (doubtful), you might
try Sn62/Pb36/Ag2.
Steven Creswick - Gentex Corp
-----Original Message-----
From: Stella Neyman [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 6:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Platinum/Palladium/Silver plating
Dear technetts, Please help me out.
We are introducing new custom made SMT component: Medium size (approx. 0.5"
x 0.200") with 2 ceramic terminations that plated with Pt/Pd/Ag coating.
Solder paste for our reflow process is 63Sn/37Pb NC low residue. Reflow
profile is standard for this paste reflow peak temp of 220-225 deg C and 50
sec above 183 deg C.
We are experiencing non-wetting conditions on components terminations, some
solder joints cracked during thermocycling testing.
Does anybody experience problem with Pt/Pd/Ag coating over ceramic
substrate?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely
Stella Neyman
Jabil Circuit, MI
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 07:39:53 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brad Saunders <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Surge current ratings of PCB traces
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="part1_11.1ee3375b.2940c119_boundary"
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Hello and Happy Holidays.... Coretec Brad here,
On a regular basis we at Coretec host industry informational seminars and are
presenting next Tuesday in Massachusetts. One of two subjects is for those
with needs in High Reliability regarding copper trace widths, the second;
correct specification call out and data security. These can be presented
in-house or you may contact me for scheduling for your area or conact info
regarding speaker Michael Jouppi; Chairman of IPC Task Group revising Copper
Conductor Sizing Chart in the Design Specification.
Sincerely,
Brad Saunders
Coretec-Inc.com
Field Apps Eng
781-858-0783
|
Repeat
Each Seminar Topic is 45-minutes with 15 minutes for questions.
The subjects are concise and timely and I hope to see you all here. Note the
time and location; short and easy. As always, if you have any questions on
circuits please call. Have a safe and happy holiday season.
PWB Conductor Current-Carrying Capacity
Chairman IPC Task Group revising Copper Conductor Sizing Chart
Conductor Current-Carrying Capacity History
Conductor Testing and Thermal Modeling
High Current Transient Effects
Influence of Internal Copper Ground and Power Planes
Influence of Vacuum
Tools for Everyone (Internal Conductor Charts)
PWB Fabrication Specification Comparison
Application of MIL-PRF-55110/31032, IPC-6012
Capabilities of Reliable Fabrication Configurations
Data Security; Requirements and Procurement
Contact Brad Saunders at 781-858-0783 or [log in to unmask]
December 11, 2001 at the Wyndham in Andover, MA. 978-975-3600
123 River Road off 93, 8 miles north of 495; across from the "Grill 93"
First Speaker begins at 1:15, Crackers Lounge available for lunch
--part1_11.1ee3375b.2940c119_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hello and Happy Holidays.... Coretec Brad here,<BR>
<BR>
On a regular basis we at Coretec host industry informational seminars and are presenting next Tuesday in Massachusetts. One of two subjects is for those with needs in High Reliability regarding copper trace widths, the second; correct specification call out and data security. These can be presented in-house or you may contact me for scheduling for your area or conact info regarding speaker Michael Jouppi; Chairman of IPC Task Group revising Copper Conductor Sizing Chart in the Design Specification. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Sincerely,<BR>
<BR>
Brad Saunders<BR>
Coretec-Inc.com<BR>
Field Apps Eng<BR>
781-858-0783<BR>
|<BR>
<I>Repeat</I><BR>
Each Seminar Topic is 45-minutes with 15 minutes for questions.<BR>
The subjects are concise and timely and I hope to see you all here. Note the time and location; short and easy. As always, if you have any questions on circuits please call. Have a safe and happy holiday season.<BR>
<BR>
<B>PWB Conductor Current-Carrying Capacity</B><BR>
Chairman IPC Task Group revising Copper Conductor Sizing Chart <BR>
Conductor Current-Carrying Capacity History<BR>
Conductor Testing and Thermal Modeling<BR>
High Current Transient Effects<BR>
Influence of Internal Copper Ground and Power Planes<BR>
Influence of Vacuum<BR>
Tools for Everyone (Internal Conductor Charts)<BR>
<BR>
<B>PWB Fabrication Specification Comparison</B><BR>
Application of MIL-PRF-55110/31032, IPC-6012 <BR>
Capabilities of Reliable Fabrication Configurations<BR>
Data Security; Requirements and Procurement<BR>
<BR>
<P ALIGN=CENTER>Contact Brad Saunders at 781-858-0783 or [log in to unmask]<BR>
December 11, 2001 at the Wyndham in Andover, MA. 978-975-3600<BR>
123 River Road off 93, 8 miles north of 495; across from the "Grill 93"<BR>
First Speaker begins at 1:15, Crackers Lounge available for lunch<BR>
<BR>
<P ALIGN=LEFT><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</P></P></FONT></HTML>
--part1_11.1ee3375b.2940c119_boundary--
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 07:44:12 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Optical comparator
X-To: Matthias Mansfeld <[log in to unmask]>
Optical comparitors are stock in trade in the machine world. Depending on
sophistication level, they may use pre-programmed, or CAD downloaded files
as dimensions and tolerances as an example, and compare finished parts with
those parameters.
For PCB's, they are useful in much the same way but other inspection methods
most often take precedence. They may be used to determine features, feature
locations, solder mask openings, pad sizes and locations, etc.
Again, this equipment primarily is used when machine products are made as
those turned on a lathe, milled, or otherwise metal machined or formed.
Together with CMM's, they can just about measure any feature on any part or
the whole part. CMM"s are the mainstay of the automootive industry as they
are programmed too measure points across small to very large parts as, say,
automobile fenders, doors, etc.
With GD&T, observing Taylor's principle, gaging is more appropriate. I would
like to see more of this mothodology used in the PCB world especially
pertaining to test fixturing on fine pitch part pads and test points that
are growing ever more small and scarce with the disappearance of real estate.
MoonMan
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:37:29 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Need for Statistical Reliability Consultant
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Try this: http://rac.iitri.org/PRODUCTS/Rac_ConsultServices.html
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Werner Engelmaier" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 6:48 PM
Subject: [TN] Need for Statistical Reliability Consultant
> Hi All,
> A client of mine has needs for a consultant on the following subjects all
> related to statistical reliability analysis, not physics-of-failure
> reliability which is my specialty. Specifcally they need input on:
> 1. DFMEA & FTA
> 2. Derating
> 3. Redundance design
> 4. Tolerance design and analysis
> 5. Software reliability
> 6. Reliability prediction and allocation
> 7. Reliability evaluation and validation
>
> Werner Engelmaier
> Engelmaier Associates, L.C.
> Electronic Packaging, Interconnection and Reliability Consulting
> 7 Jasmine Run
> Ormond Beach, FL 32174 USA
> Phone: 386-437-8747, Fax: 386-437-8737
> E-mail: [log in to unmask], Website: www.engelmaier.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:36:36 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 610 B to C question
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I have a question regarding a clarification of the change between the =
revisions. Can someone from IPC that is affiliated with the 610 contact =
me offline? I really don't want this discussion on technet......... yet. =
=20
[log in to unmask]
TIA
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<DIV>I have a question regarding a clarification of the change between the
revisions. Can someone from IPC that is affiliated with the 610 contact me
offline? I really don't want this discussion on technet.........
yet. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A></DIV>
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:40:53 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Manwell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Hello,
Thanks in advance if you have taken the time to read this!
#1- Im trying different materials in a spray application. Both are cured
using UV. One material does a "secondary cure" w/ moisture. This is cool
because after 100 hours after UV cure, all material is fully cured.
The other material Im trying uses HEAT for a secondary cure, or, if
shodowed during UV cure, the material wont cure and never will. Obviously I
dont want the stuff dripping or running anywhere, but being new to this
wonderful process, just dont feel good about leaving uncured material on a
product for it's entire life. Iv been told that you can "test" the product
to see if the uncured material is causing a problem but Im not sure what
type of test that would consist of. Any insight?
#2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their UV
oven to limit shadowing?
Thanks so much,
Mike Manwell
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Subject: discontinue my subscription to technet
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:54:29 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SM Ceramic Caps - Touch-Up/Replacement
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Go to Kemet and AVX web sites both have info on chip cap. repair do and don'ts.
Basicall you can do the repair with iron, depends on the chip size, but don't
touch the chip directly touch the solder on the pcb pad
Neda Thrash <[log in to unmask]> on 12/05/2001 03:53:58 PM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Warren Crow/US/I-O INC)
Subject: [TN] SM Ceramic Caps - Touch-Up/Replacement
Quite often I see the need to add solder to the end caps of surface mounted
ceramic capacitors. Normally I would do this with hot air and solder paste
because of the part being more heat sensitive but some of the touch up areas I
go to only have soldering irons for rework. Assuming the operator is using the
correct tip size for the part and the temp set at 600 degrees F, does this pose
a great threat to the component ( internal cracking from heat) ?
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:19:15 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Platinum/Palladium/Silver plating
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Hi Stella,
From the skimpy description of this component it sounds quite lie a leadless
ceramic chip carrier, with only 2 terminations but still of large size. Among
other things, you may have a serious CTE-mismatch problem.
Werner Engelmaier
Engelmaier Associates, L.C.
Electronic Packaging, Interconnection and Reliability Consulting
7 Jasmine Run
Ormond Beach, FL 32174 USA
Phone: 386-437-8747, Fax: 386-437-8737
E-mail: [log in to unmask], Website: www.engelmaier.com
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:19:17 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RESIN RECESSION
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Hi Gary,
Actually 'hole wall pullaway' describes what is physically happeningg about
as accurately as 'resin recession.' What is happening is that during a
solder float the large thermal expansion of the resin will plastically deform
the PTH hole walls inward. During cooling, the resin returns to its former
geometry, while the Cu wall is plastically deformed and does not. That is the
reason why 'resin recession' is more common with thinner PTV plating and PTHs
without non-functional lands.
As you correctly point out, etchback is something entirely different.
Werner Engelmaier
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:19:16 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: QFP Leads with 85 Tin 15 Lead finish
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Hi Jorge,
When you say: "the oven profile was also verified and it's always within the
solder paste manufacturer's recommendations," how and where did you verify
the profile? How large is this component?
My guess is that your reflow oven recipe is too low to produce an adequate
reflow profile for this component and this surface finish on the leads.
Werner Engelmaier
Engelmaier Associates, L.C.
Electronic Packaging, Interconnection and Reliability Consulting
7 Jasmine Run
Ormond Beach, FL 32174 USA
Phone: 386-437-8747, Fax: 386-437-8737
E-mail: [log in to unmask], Website: www.engelmaier.com
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 07:39:45 -0800
Reply-To: Leo Roos <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Leo Roos <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
MIME-Version: 1.0
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There are tests describes in IPC-SM 840-C and in the spec for conformal
coating.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Manwell" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 6:40 AM
Subject: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
> Hello,
> Thanks in advance if you have taken the time to read this!
>
> #1- Im trying different materials in a spray application. Both are cured
> using UV. One material does a "secondary cure" w/ moisture. This is cool
> because after 100 hours after UV cure, all material is fully cured.
> The other material Im trying uses HEAT for a secondary cure, or, if
> shodowed during UV cure, the material wont cure and never will. Obviously
I
> dont want the stuff dripping or running anywhere, but being new to this
> wonderful process, just dont feel good about leaving uncured material on a
> product for it's entire life. Iv been told that you can "test" the product
> to see if the uncured material is causing a problem but Im not sure what
> type of test that would consist of. Any insight?
>
> #2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their
UV
> oven to limit shadowing?
>
> Thanks so much,
>
> Mike Manwell
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:44:34 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen Peroxide Stability
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Thanks, GREAT TIP....so to speak...
Rudy Sedlak
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:49:52 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kirk Kosel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SnPb HASL
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Hi everyone.
We are trying to bring an old HASL back on-line and need to ensure that =
our solder pot is within specifications. Is anyone aware of any IPC =
methods that we need to follow to do this? If possible, we would like to =
do the test in-house. We use 63/37 Sn/Pb.
Thanks in advance for your help and happy holidays.
Kirk Kosel
--=_2A7714D0.47264A89
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Hi everyone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>We are trying to bring an old HASL back on-line and =
need to=20
ensure that our solder pot is within specifications. Is anyone aware =
of=20
any IPC methods that we need to follow to do this? If possible, we =
would=20
like to do the test in-house. We use 63/37 Sn/Pb.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Thanks in advance for your help and happy=20
holidays.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Kirk Kosel</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:43:55 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RESIN RECESSION
X-To: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Werner,
Realizing you've talked about this before, I would ask:
Resin recedes back into the structure, away from the hole wall, during
thermal stress and returns to original geometry after cooling? Copper does not?
If all this is true, and it must be as you say, is there any indication the
original plating (catalytic or direct electroless deposition plus
electroplating process) has problems? If expected quality was realized,
wouldn't the copper "follow" the resin into recession? Also, does overly
agressive etch-back accompanied by glass fiber removal, say, beyond some
number, contribute to the condition? I mean, would smear removal be a better
process or a less agressive etch-back?
Earl Moon
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 16:51:54 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Mike
You would be better to go with a conventional coating. UV is not ideal for
3D objects - works great in 2D, cos you don't have to bend light! :-)
I cannot remember what the operating environment was for your circuit - if
you would care to repeat, I can recommend something - however, I am sure
that a one part AR or UR coating from a reliable supplier will give you the
best overall results - process and operating environment.
Regards, Graham Naisbitt
[log in to unmask]
www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of
http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
Concoat Limited
Alasan House, Albany Park
CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK
Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100
Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227
Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mike Manwell
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 02:41
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Hello,
Thanks in advance if you have taken the time to read this!
#1- Im trying different materials in a spray application. Both are cured
using UV. One material does a "secondary cure" w/ moisture. This is cool
because after 100 hours after UV cure, all material is fully cured.
The other material Im trying uses HEAT for a secondary cure, or, if
shodowed during UV cure, the material wont cure and never will. Obviously I
dont want the stuff dripping or running anywhere, but being new to this
wonderful process, just dont feel good about leaving uncured material on a
product for it's entire life. Iv been told that you can "test" the product
to see if the uncured material is causing a problem but Im not sure what
type of test that would consist of. Any insight?
#2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their UV
oven to limit shadowing?
Thanks so much,
Mike Manwell
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:56:36 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jon Moore <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 12/6/2001 9:48:10 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< #2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their UV
oven to limit shadowing? >>
I have used both types of coating that you list, and I prefer the heat cure
option because it gives me control over the cure process. The moisture cure
secondary simply took too long and I had the dripping problem you described.
I did add reflective plates inside the UV section of the oven. I calculated
the bes angle from the position of my UV bulb to get the light reflected at a
very low angle so that it would go under the edge of some parts. I used
standard mirror tiles, and it worked well.
Jon Moore
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:59:32 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Help finding used process equipment
MIME-Version: 1.0
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With the (near) death of our industry, used process equipment is supposed to
be everywhere...but I am having a problem finding it...maybe because the
people selling it are dying???
I need a conveyorized spray process chamber, 18" or 24" long chamber, 24" to
30" wide conveyor, heated, any materials of construction. And I need a rinse
afterwards.
Anybody know anybody with something like this to sell?
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 17:10:33 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Atkinson, Neil" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: TechNet Digest - 5 Dec 2001 to 6 Dec 2001 - Special issue (#2
001-760)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
There are a few comparators available, some manual, some automatic. Some
switch between images quickly making any differences stand out, others
actually display a 'difference image' which highlights differences between
the boards.
The golden image is usually stored electronically - one of the better ones I
have seen in manufactured by Diagnosys and I think was called Viewpoint. It
actually used a scanner to take an image of the board!!
They have a Web Site at www.diagnosys.com
Neil
Neil Atkinson
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 06 December 2001 16:14
To: Recipients of TechNet digests
Subject: TechNet Digest - 5 Dec 2001 to 6 Dec 2001 -
Special issue (#2001-760)
<< Message: TechNet Digest - 5 Dec 2001 to 6 Dec 2001 -
Special issue (#2001-760) >> << Message: Optical comparator >> << Message:
Re: Hydrogen Peroxide vs. Sodium Chlorate >> << Message: Re: Hydrogen
Peroxide Stability >> << Message: Re: Platinum/Palladium/Silver plating >>
<< Message: Re: SiPAD >> << Message: Re: Optical comparator >> << Message:
Re: Rust Removal >> << Message: Re: Platinum/Palladium/Silver plating >>
<< Message: Re: Surge current ratings of PCB traces >> << Message: Re:
Optical comparator >> << Message: Re: Need for Statistical Reliability
Consultant >> << Message: 610 B to C question >> << Message: 2 Conformal
Coating ?'s >> << Message: discontinue my subscription to technet >> <<
Message: Re: SM Ceramic Caps - Touch-Up/Replacement >> << Message: Re:
Platinum/Palladium/Silver plating >> << Message: Re: RESIN RECESSION >> <<
Message: Re: QFP Leads with 85 Tin 15 Lead finish >>
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:21:10 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Goldman, Patricia J." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Help finding used process equipment
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
There is a company in Southern Cal. Here is info I copied from an e-mail:
Dennis Stapleton & John Saggau
831 818-5910
Web Site: www.teampcbequipment.com
E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
They seem to have a lot of conveyorized equipment and offer it completely refurbished and warranteed.
Patty
Patricia J. Goldman
PPG Industries, Inc.
724-274-3417
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: <Rudy Sedlak> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 12:00 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Help finding used process equipment
With the (near) death of our industry, used process equipment is supposed to
be everywhere...but I am having a problem finding it...maybe because the
people selling it are dying???
I need a conveyorized spray process chamber, 18" or 24" long chamber, 24" to
30" wide conveyor, heated, any materials of construction. And I need a rinse
afterwards.
Anybody know anybody with something like this to sell?
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:23:20 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Russell Burdick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SURFACE FINISHES
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Two considerations to mention are less cost for immersion silver compared to
ENIG and from a former process engineer the ability to rework immersion
silver. Rework of ENIG never panned out for me personally. The silver can be
stripped and re-plated.
My $0.02 worth.
Russ Burdick
>From: Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [TN] SURFACE FINISHES
>Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:51:29 -0500
>
>TO Tech-Net:
>
>As an advocate for ENIG for fine pitch designs, I am asking for input on
>whether moving towards a silver product
>is more efficient a performer at the assembly level. Finishes such as
>Alpha Level have been available but have not
>replaced the current slate that appears common; ie. white tin or ENIG.
>
>Question: Are silver finishes more cost effective at the board
>fabricator while at the same time being process friendly
>at the assembler than ENIG or white tin? HASL is not one that I believe
>will be an option much longer due to the
>de-leading of the inductry so I have not included that choice.
>
>I know the list as addressed facets of this issues in the past however
>would appreciate any inputs.
>
>Charlie McMahon.
>
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:42:54 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Christophe CROCOMBETTE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Electronic board and connector cleaning standards
Hi folks,
Does anyone know if a standard related to the cleaning of electronic boards and connectors has been issued by any standard organization (IPC, ...) ?
If anyone has an internal procedure from his/her own company, I would be interested in getting some inputs
Thanks
Chris
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:36:19 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jerry Mosur <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SiPAD
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks to all who replied.
There is some interesting reading material at www.midwestpcb.com under
capability section.
Happy reading and thanks again,
-----Original Message-----
From: Busko, Wolfgang [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 4:23 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] SiPAD
Hi Jerry,
you should look at the specs regarding the hight you reach when the deposit
is melting and becoming convex again. Does this specified hight comply with
components coplanarity tolerances ?
This made me think about this technology ...
Wolfgang
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Mosur [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:15 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] SiPAD
>
>
> Greetings,
>
> Our assembly guys came across a PCB product called SiPAD. It
> is a patented
> (by Siemens) way of adding a layer of SMD paste, then curing
> and leveling it
> and finally spraying the whole board with a layer of flux. A layer of
> protective paper is applied over the entire surface so the
> flux doesn't dry
> out and stays tacky.
> The claim to fame is that it is suppose to save one
> manufacturing step,
> solder paste application.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:54:50 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Noble, Ed" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: discontinue my subscription to TECHNET
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Please discontinue my subscription to TechNet.
Process Control Supervisor
[log in to unmask]
Industrial Scientific Corp.
www.indsci.com
voice 412.490.1884
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:01:45 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Electronic board and connector cleaning standards
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Does anyone know if a standard related to the cleaning of electronic boards
and connectors has been issued by any standard organization (IPC, ...) ?
If anyone has an internal procedure from his/her own company, I would be
interested in getting some inputs
*Chris,
The only "standard" you will probably find with respect to the cleanliness
of bare boards or assemblies, is in J-STD-001 or IPC-601X series. They all
boil down to the same thing, ionic cleanliness by resistivity of solvent
extract (ROSE) testing per IPC-TM-650, method 2.3.25. They all have the
same value, 10 micrograms of sodium chloride equivalence per square inch.
There is plenty of industry data to show these tests are not repeatable,
not reproducible, and will not discriminate between good and bad product,
other than in the grossest cases.
Nor do I think a "standard" for anything other than ROSE will ever be
developed. There are no more golden numbers that can be applied blindly
across the board. Cleanliness has to be determined on a case by case or
family by family basis.
The best I think you can do is to find cleaning guidelines or starting
points. CSL has some on their website at www.residues.com and the same
levels can be found in J-HDBK-001, section 8.
Doug Pauls
Rockwell Collins
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 13:24:15 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Help finding used process equipment
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Here are a few Used Equipment companies I have had contact with.
http://www.broomeeng.com/ Winding equipment
http://www.horizonsales.com/insertech.htm Printed Circuit manufacturing
equipment
http://www.lewis-clark.com/ used manufacturing equipment
I also have another contact (presently out of town) that I can ask for
his sources if you'd like.
Phil Nutting
-----Original Message-----
From: <Rudy Sedlak> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 12:00 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Help finding used process equipment
With the (near) death of our industry, used process equipment is
supposed to
be everywhere...but I am having a problem finding it...maybe because the
people selling it are dying???
I need a conveyorized spray process chamber, 18" or 24" long chamber,
24" to
30" wide conveyor, heated, any materials of construction. And I need a
rinse
afterwards.
Anybody know anybody with something like this to sell?
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 12:48:14 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Platinum/Palladium/Silver plating
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Stella! Just one bit of information to add to Steve's great information
- use the IPC JSTD-002A solderability specification as you tool/method of
demonstrating that the solderability and/or leaching is your problem. We
have experienced similar problems in the past and poor solderability of the
components was problem.
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
Stella Neyman <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/05/2001 05:53:55 PM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: [TN] Platinum/Palladium/Silver plating
Dear technetts, Please help me out.
We are introducing new custom made SMT component: Medium size (approx. 0.5"
x 0.200") with 2 ceramic terminations that plated with Pt/Pd/Ag coating.
Solder paste for our reflow process is 63Sn/37Pb NC low residue. Reflow
profile is standard for this paste reflow peak temp of 220-225 deg C and 50
sec above 183 deg C.
We are experiencing non-wetting conditions on components terminations, some
solder joints cracked during thermocycling testing.
Does anybody experience problem with Pt/Pd/Ag coating over ceramic
substrate?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely
Stella Neyman
Jabil Circuit, MI
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 13:11:09 -0800
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ahne Oosterhof <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Virus
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I expect that the persons making the worms pick the Microsoft products
because those are the most common. So if someone wants to do harm, that is
the "most efficient" way to do it. As soon as another operating system or
program becomes dominant it will be used to generate and send you those kind
of surprises.
In the meantime I have my Outlook set up so it rejects any (and warns me
about it) executable or equivalent attachment. So far none have slipped by
yet, even though I was warned yesterday that there still may be a way to
slip past it.
So, like Bush says, we have to remain vigilant.
Have fun,
Ahne
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 23:29
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Virus
All these worm-type viruses rely on Microsoft products to propagate
themselves. Similarly, all the macrovirus types also.
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:02:41 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jac Kroeker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Help finding used process equipment
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Rudy,
If a Chemcut 315 etcher (18 inch conveyer I think) will help you out -
contact me offline. I have 2.
Jac
At 11:59 AM 12/06/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>With the (near) death of our industry, used process equipment is supposed to
>be everywhere...but I am having a problem finding it...maybe because the
>people selling it are dying???
>
>I need a conveyorized spray process chamber, 18" or 24" long chamber, 24" to
>30" wide conveyor, heated, any materials of construction. And I need a rinse
>afterwards.
>
>Anybody know anybody with something like this to sell?
>
>Rudy Sedlak
>RD Chemical Company
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
========================================================
Omni Graphics Ltd. 2 - 12760 Bathgate Way, Richmond BC, Canada V6V 1Z4
Tel 604-276-9717 Fax 604-276-2514
[log in to unmask] www.omnigraph.com
========================================================
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:26:26 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Procedure for SIR (surface insulation) test
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello,
We are changing the post-reflow washing window from 1
hour to 5 hours. However, in order to do it, we have
to provide proof to our customer. One of the
requirement is the SIR.
Could you please show me what tool do I need and where
to buy to do the SIR test. What is the most
popular/approriate procedure to do it?
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Stacy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 18:53:50 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Procedure for SIR (surface insulation) test
X-To: [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_702D5127.2F4E284A"
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=_702D5127.2F4E284A
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Stacy, a good place to start is IPC-9201. Here's a description and =
ordering info online www.ipc.org/bookstore
9201 - Surface Insulation Resistance Handbook
This handbook covers the terminology, theories, test procedures and test =
vehicles of surface insulation resistance (SIR) or temperature-humidity =
(TH) testing. Discussions on failure modes and troubleshooting are also =
included. 65 pages. Released July 1990.=20
You can download the Table of Contents and first page of the document for =
more info: http://www.ipc.org/TOC/IPC-9201.pdf
Happy Holidays
Jack
>>> [log in to unmask] 12/06/01 05:26PM >>>
Hello,
We are changing the post-reflow washing window from 1
hour to 5 hours. However, in order to do it, we have
to provide proof to our customer. One of the
requirement is the SIR.
Could you please show me what tool do I need and where
to buy to do the SIR test. What is the most
popular/approriate procedure to do it?
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Stacy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
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E-mail Archives
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Content-Description: HTML
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV><FONT size=3D1>Stacy, a good place to start is IPC-9201. Here's =
a=20
description and ordering info online <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/bookstore">www.ipc.org/bookstore</A></FONT></DIV=
>
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DVerdana><SPAN class=3Dsubhead>9201 - Surface =
Insulation=20
Resistance Handbook</SPAN></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3Dbody><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>This handbook covers =
the=20
terminology, theories, test procedures and test vehicles of surface =
insulation=20
resistance (SIR) or temperature-humidity (TH) testing. Discussions on =
failure=20
modes and troubleshooting are also included. 65 pages. Released July =
1990.=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3Dbody><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> <=
/DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3Dbody><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>You can download the =
Table of=20
Contents and first page of the document for more info: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/TOC/IPC-9201.pdf">http://www.ipc.org/TOC/IPC-920=
1.pdf</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3Dbody><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> <=
/DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3Dbody><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>Happy=20
Holidays</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3Dbody><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>Jack</FONT></SPAN></D=
IV>
<DIV><BR><BR>>>> [log in to unmask] 12/06/01 05:26PM=20
>>><BR>Hello,<BR><BR>We are changing the post-reflow washing =
window=20
from 1<BR>hour to 5 hours. However, in order to do it, we have<BR>to=
=20
provide proof to our customer. One of the<BR>requirement is the=20
SIR.<BR><BR>Could you please show me what tool do I need and where<BR>to =
buy to=20
do the SIR test. What is the most<BR>popular/approriate procedure to =
do=20
it?<BR><BR>Your help is greatly=20
appreciated.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Stacy<BR><BR>___________________________=
_______________________<BR>Do=20
You Yahoo!?<BR>Send your FREE holiday greetings online!<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://greetings.yahoo.com">http://greetings.yahoo.com</A><BR><BR>-=
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tm)</A>=20
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 22:39:53 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: SnPb HASL
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="part1_80.14567c83.29419409_boundary"
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Kirk,
I will have the pot analyzed for you at no charge and let you know
where you stand. You can e-mail me directly.
Steve Wentz
Florida CirTech Inc.
--part1_80.14567c83.29419409_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Kirk,
<BR> I will have the pot analyzed for you at no charge and let you know where you stand. You can e-mail me directly.
<BR>
<BR>Steve Wentz
<BR>Florida CirTech Inc.</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:05:52 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Electronic board and connector cleaning standards
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Chris
I agree with Father Doug. How long is a piece of string? I can think of
cases where 1.5 ug/cm2 eq. NaCl (the more modern figure, roughly the
same as Doug's) is grossly insufficient and others where it is gross
overkill. Would you apply the same standards to a satellite, a submarine
repeater, a personal computer and a Gameboy?
At the best, ionic contamination testing is a yardstick to ensure your
process remains constant. If the results drift up or down, then you know
something is happening, which may have undesirable effects on the
reliability.
Also, ionic contamination is not the be all and end all of ensuring
reliability. I've seen many failures of electronics assemblies because
of non-ionic contamination. There is no easy way of measuring the
latter, or gauging its effect on reliability.
There is only one way of determining reliability: build some assemblies
and test them under real worst-case working conditions for the number of
years you need them to operate. When you have done this, you can
establish your manufacturing protocol. Of course, this is not practical,
so one tends to err on the safe side (over-engineering) and one tries to
do accelerated testing, which often bears little correlation to real
life. However, if one logs carefully all failed assemblies that come in
for repair and diagnoses the fault mechanism, it is often possible to
slowly improve the process, possibly even reducing costs.
Brian
Christophe CROCOMBETTE wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Does anyone know if a standard related to the cleaning of electronic boards and connectors has been issued by any standard organization (IPC, ...) ?
>
> If anyone has an internal procedure from his/her own company, I would be interested in getting some inputs
>
> Thanks
>
> Chris
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 02:43:11 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RESIN RECESSION
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Hi Earl,
>Resin recedes back into the structure, away from the hole wall, during
thermal
>stress and returns to original geometry after cooling? Copper does not?
You got it backwards--I guess I did not describe it clearly enough. during
heating [thermal stress] the resin expands into the hole towards the hole
walls, not away from them {YES, I know a hole in a steel plate gets bigger on
heating, but a PCB is not a steel plate, it is a resin matrix constrained in
2 directions by the glass reinforcements. You drill a hole in this and the
hole gets smaller on heating}.
So, this inwards movement of the resin deforms the Cu inwards as well, and
some of this deformation is plastic. The adhesion of the Cu wlls to the resin
is not sufficient to pull the Cu walls back to their original position.
Smear removal or etch-back have nothing to do with this, plating thickness
and number of inner-layer lands do however.
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 02:43:09 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FW: [TN] QFP Leads with 85 Tin 15 Lead finish
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Hi Jorge,
>All the thermocouples were directly attached to the component solder joints,
the
>peak temperature reaches 210 degrees Celsius. The time above liquiduos
(183C) is 60 >seconds. The component is a 0.020" pitch plastic QFP, the body
>measures around 30 mm by 30 mm. I'm quite sure the profile numbers are
>right, it works for everything on the board, but those QFPs. No idea what's
>wrong. Any ideas of what may be happening?
ANSWER: Well, this comes from some of the technically sloppy ideas that float
around in the industry. 60 seconds above 183C is not necessarily enough for
some components, and certainly not with a higher melting solder like you have
on your leads. In order to get reliable reflow you need to be at or higher
than [Liquidus + 20C] for about 5 to 10 seconds. At a peak reflow temperature
of 210C you are nowhere near that. Also for larger components like this you
need to attach the thermocouple to a non-soldered lead notone that is already
attached to the PCB--the component interior is a heat sink.
Werner Engelmaier
Engelmaier Associates, L.C.
Electronic Packaging, Interconnection and Reliability Consulting
7 Jasmine Run
Ormond Beach, FL 32174 USA
Phone: 386-437-8747, Fax: 386-437-8737
E-mail: [log in to unmask], Website: www.engelmaier.com
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:09:13 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Marc Cowen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Guard Traces
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi All,
I am after information on Guard Traces. Is there any information / paper on
the reliability / effectivity of a guard trace being reduced due to no-clean
flux residue.
Thanks for your help.
Best regards
Marc.
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 10:38:45 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jan Thuesen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SV: [TN] Help finding used process equipment
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
We have used these companies when buying and/or selling used manufacturing
equipment.
http://www.pcbequipment.com/
http://www.vitech-int.com/
Hope this helps
Jan Thuesen
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Phil Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sendt: 6. december 2001 19:24
Til: [log in to unmask]
Emne: Re: [TN] Help finding used process equipment
Here are a few Used Equipment companies I have had contact with.
http://www.broomeeng.com/ Winding equipment
http://www.horizonsales.com/insertech.htm Printed Circuit manufacturing
equipment
http://www.lewis-clark.com/ used manufacturing equipment
I also have another contact (presently out of town) that I can ask for
his sources if you'd like.
Phil Nutting
-----Original Message-----
From: <Rudy Sedlak> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 12:00 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Help finding used process equipment
With the (near) death of our industry, used process equipment is
supposed to
be everywhere...but I am having a problem finding it...maybe because the
people selling it are dying???
I need a conveyorized spray process chamber, 18" or 24" long chamber,
24" to
30" wide conveyor, heated, any materials of construction. And I need a
rinse
afterwards.
Anybody know anybody with something like this to sell?
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 10:35:07 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Procedure for SIR (surface insulation) test
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Stacy
We have this equipment. Please let me have your contact details and I will
send you the info.
Regards, Graham Naisbitt
[log in to unmask]
www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of
http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
Concoat Limited
Alasan House, Albany Park
CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK
Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100
Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227
Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of My Nguyen
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:26
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Procedure for SIR (surface insulation) test
Hello,
We are changing the post-reflow washing window from 1
hour to 5 hours. However, in order to do it, we have
to provide proof to our customer. One of the
requirement is the SIR.
Could you please show me what tool do I need and where
to buy to do the SIR test. What is the most
popular/approriate procedure to do it?
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Stacy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:29:51 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RESIN RECESSION
X-To: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Thanks Werner,
You clarified much though the phenomonon seems benign to most in industry.
Even after all these years, it does look scary.
My question about etchback and smear removal was aimed more at plating
adhesion during resin expansion and recession. I was just wondering if less
was better as a function of adhesion and what might negatively affect it.
I'm trying to look at it as the plating should follow the resin movement if
the adhesion characteristics were better on a "smoother" surface than one
etched back to, say, the maximum .003" number.
You shed good light on plating thickness, number of layers, and dielectric
thickness. I see where thinner dielectrics would not offer resin the
opportunity to move so much.
Earl Moon
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:00:52 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Procedure for SIR (surface insulation) test
MIME-Version: 1.0
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We are changing the post-reflow washing window from 1
hour to 5 hours. However, in order to do it, we have
to provide proof to our customer. One of the
requirement is the SIR.
Could you please show me what tool do I need and where
to buy to do the SIR test. What is the most
popular/approriate procedure to do it?
Your help is greatly appreciated.
*Stacy,
Which SIR test you do depends on a couple of factors. If you have
contracts for MIL-STD-2000A or J-STD-001, that will limit some of your
choices. Even if you have MIL-STD-2000 contracts, you are only changing
the cleaning time, not the flux, so you would not HAVE to do Appendix A
testing.
If your customer requires you to do SIR testing, they should tell you by
what method, e.g. IPC-TM-650, method 2.6.3.3, and by what specification or
criteria, e.g. J-STD-001, Appendix B.
If you have some more lattitude in how you demonstrate that the longer
cleaning time is OK, then SIR may not be the best testing to do.
Environmental stress screening on actual hardware may be a better test than
SIR to demonstrate that the longer cleaning time does not hurt the
hardware. What fluxes and pastes are you using and what cleaning regimens.
While Graham Naisbitt would be happy to sell you an AutoSIR for your
testing (and a fine piece of hardware it is), to setup for SIR testing (and
do it RIGHT) is very capital intensive, on the order of $75,000 or more.
It sounds like you have a minimal need for SIR testing and you should go
with one of the commercial labs that provide this service for a reasonable
fee.
If you want to talk about this in greater depth off-line, give me a call at
319-295-2109.
Doug Pauls
Rockwell Collins
IPC SIR Task Group - Emeritus
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 06:31:34 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Denis Lefebvre <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Guard Traces
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]
ilent.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I doubt it - The whole purpose of a guard trace, as I understand it, is to
provide electrical shielding to prevent crosstalk [undesired electrical
coupling]. Personally, I don't see how residue of any kind (except
metallic) could reduce the effectivity of a guard trace. If there is a
problem, it is likely a design issue. IMHO.
Denis Lefebvre, C.I.D.
Senior PCB Designer
Finisar Corporation
1308 Moffett Park Drive
Sunnyvale, CA 94089-1133
(408)542-3832
http://www.finisar.com
At 09:09 AM 12/7/2001 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I am after information on Guard Traces. Is there any information / paper on
>the reliability / effectivity of a guard trace being reduced due to no-clean
>flux residue.
>
>Thanks for your help.
>
>Best regards
>
>Marc.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 06:39:03 -0800
Reply-To: Greg Triggs <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Greg Triggs <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Alkaline Etch
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01C17EE9.DCB34360"
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------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C17EE9.DCB34360
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Hello
Thank you for all the input on Cupric etch. Now I have a =
question about Alkaline Etch. A former large user ( now smaller ) is now =
having a hard time stabilizing it's chloride content. I am interested in =
what can be done to help them, as well as what kind of things they can =
expect to see because of the high chlorides ( 6.2). What are some of the =
things these former large users can do to stabilize the etch when their =
consumption is vastly reduced? Thank you in advance.=20
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C17EE9.DCB34360
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> =20
Thank you for all the input on Cupric etch. Now I have a question about =
Alkaline=20
Etch. A former large user ( now smaller ) is now having a hard time =
stabilizing=20
it's chloride content. I am interested in what can be done to help them, =
as well=20
as what kind of things they can expect to see because of the high =
chlorides (=20
6.2). What are some of the things these former large users can do to =
stabilize=20
the etch when their consumption is vastly reduced? Thank you in=20
advance. </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C17EE9.DCB34360--
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:49:11 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Rick Howieson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RESIN RECESSION
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
My apologies...mind was on wicking. You are correct!
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: Werner Engelmaier [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:43 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] RESIN RECESSION
Hi Earl,
>Resin recedes back into the structure, away from the hole wall, during
thermal
>stress and returns to original geometry after cooling? Copper does not?
You got it backwards--I guess I did not describe it clearly enough. during
heating [thermal stress] the resin expands into the hole towards the hole
walls, not away from them {YES, I know a hole in a steel plate gets bigger
on
heating, but a PCB is not a steel plate, it is a resin matrix constrained in
2 directions by the glass reinforcements. You drill a hole in this and the
hole gets smaller on heating}.
So, this inwards movement of the resin deforms the Cu inwards as well, and
some of this deformation is plastic. The adhesion of the Cu wlls to the
resin
is not sufficient to pull the Cu walls back to their original position.
Smear removal or etch-back have nothing to do with this, plating thickness
and number of inner-layer lands do however.
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:11:43 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ted Stern <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Procedure for SIR (surface insulation) test
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear Ms. Nguyen:
The test method employed is described in IPC TM-650, 2.6.3.3 as referenced in Joint Industry
Standard J-STD-004 "Requirements for Soldering Fluxes". I would recommend contacting Mr. Jim
Hevel at SCOPE LABORATORIES, 708-335-8888.
Regards,
Ted Stern
My Nguyen wrote:
> Hello,
>
> We are changing the post-reflow washing window from 1
> hour to 5 hours. However, in order to do it, we have
> to provide proof to our customer. One of the
> requirement is the SIR.
>
> Could you please show me what tool do I need and where
> to buy to do the SIR test. What is the most
> popular/approriate procedure to do it?
>
> Your help is greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stacy
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
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> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:07:46 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Alkaline Etchant--response
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Greg:
You have discovered one of the great secrets of the industry....
The ammoniacal etch replenishers arrive with widely varying contents.
I consulted for a distributor of this chemistry, and had the same sort of
problems, and started analyzing the incoming stuff, and was stunned. The
vendors can get away with it because virtually nobody analyzes their incoming
replenisher.
The vendors specs are usually wider than they ought to be, and they
frequently do not even meet their own specs. (As a chemical vendor, I can
tell you that the most casual QC can keep any ingredient within 1% of
target....wider than that is self-serving)
Now, this caveat, the experience I write about above is 10+ years old, so, it
MAY no longer be applicable...however, if I were to bet, I would bet it has
not changed.
And incidentally, the chloride level does not change in the etching process,
so, there is no "controlling" it, assuming that you are not adding anything
to the replenisher.
Good luck.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 08:19:54 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: peter lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Help finding used process equipment
In-Reply-To: <81FDBE48EB2CD41189BC0008C70D8480407025@CHENT>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I am looking for used CAB MAESTRO 2M separator for
pre-scored PCB.
Other than the site mentioned, is there anywhere else
I could search?
Rgds,
Peter
--- Jan Thuesen <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> We have used these companies when buying and/or
> selling used manufacturing
> equipment.
>
> http://www.pcbequipment.com/
>
> http://www.vitech-int.com/
>
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Jan Thuesen
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: Phil Nutting
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sendt: 6. december 2001 19:24
> Til: [log in to unmask]
> Emne: Re: [TN] Help finding used process equipment
>
> Here are a few Used Equipment companies I have had
> contact with.
>
> http://www.broomeeng.com/ Winding equipment
>
> http://www.horizonsales.com/insertech.htm Printed
> Circuit manufacturing
> equipment
>
> http://www.lewis-clark.com/ used manufacturing
> equipment
>
> I also have another contact (presently out of town)
> that I can ask for
> his sources if you'd like.
>
> Phil Nutting
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <Rudy Sedlak> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 12:00 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Help finding used process equipment
>
>
> With the (near) death of our industry, used process
> equipment is
> supposed to
> be everywhere...but I am having a problem finding
> it...maybe because the
> people selling it are dying???
>
> I need a conveyorized spray process chamber, 18" or
> 24" long chamber,
> 24" to
> 30" wide conveyor, heated, any materials of
> construction. And I need a
> rinse
> afterwards.
>
> Anybody know anybody with something like this to
> sell?
>
> Rudy Sedlak
> RD Chemical Company
>
>
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 10:29:26 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Nancy Lorenz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Procedure for SIR (surface insulation) test
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
On Thursday, December 06, 2001 6:53 PM, Jack Crawford wrote:
>
>Stacy, a good place to start is IPC-9201. Here's a description and=
ordering info online www.ipc.org/bookstore
>
>9201 - Surface Insulation Resistance Handbook
>This handbook covers the terminology, theories, test procedures and test=
vehicles of surface insulation resistance (SIR) or temperature-humidity=
(TH) testing. Discussions on failure modes and troubleshooting are also=
included. 65 pages. Released July 1990. =
>
>You can download the Table of Contents and first page of the document for=
more info: http://www.ipc.org/TOC/IPC-9201.pdf
>
>Happy Holidays
>Jack
>
>
>>>> [log in to unmask] 12/06/01 05:26PM >>>
>Hello,
>
>We are changing the post-reflow washing window from 1
>hour to 5 hours. However, in order to do it, we have
>to provide proof to our customer. One of the
>requirement is the SIR.
>
>Could you please show me what tool do I need and where
>to buy to do the SIR test. What is the most
>popular/approriate procedure to do it?
>
>Your help is greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Stacy
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
>http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
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>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >=
E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
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>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700=
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>--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
>
Please remove me from the mailing list, I am only working a day or two a =
week since I got sick. Thankyou, Nancy
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:43:46 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BGA Visual Inspection
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> TechNet Friends,
> We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
> X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It appears
> to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options to
> make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do add
> value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated such
> tools.
> Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they
> as fully developed as the ERSA?
>
> Thanks for your help with this one,
> I
>
> Greg Anderson
> Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> GE Fanuc Automation
> Charlottesville, VA 22911
> Phone: 434-978-5181
> FAX: 434-978-5898
> e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:35:40 +0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Eric Christison <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: STMicroelectronics
Subject: Info on lead free reflow profiles sought
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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After half an hour's fruitless searching of the net I thought of Technet.
Can anyone out there point me at a web page or email me a reflow profile for one of the higher
melting point lead free solders. I'm trying to produce a test spec to determine whether some
temperature sensitive components would survive a 'worst case' reflow cycle.
By the way. I note that many of the lead free alloys contain Bismuth. Isn't this more toxic
than lead? Am I being naive in my surprise that one toxic chemical is being replaced with
something equally bad?
Regards,
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:31:26 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Info on lead free reflow profiles sought
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi Eric,
check
http://www.vitronics-soltec.com/Vis/Vis_r5.nsf/technology!OpenFrameSet, then
processes/reflow. the link that pops-up an article is "lead-free reflow
soldering ".
Besides that, a couple of days ago I got mail from Vitronics, having inside
a CD called "5 steps to lead-free". The problem is I don't know why I got
it, was it me ordering it, probably through their website, or simply, a
courtesy from Vitronics? Mistery!
I think you could also contact Vitronics for this CD.
Regards,
Ioan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Christison [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:36 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Info on lead free reflow profiles sought
>
> After half an hour's fruitless searching of the net I thought of Technet.
>
> Can anyone out there point me at a web page or email me a reflow profile
> for one of the higher
> melting point lead free solders. I'm trying to produce a test spec to
> determine whether some
> temperature sensitive components would survive a 'worst case' reflow
> cycle.
>
> By the way. I note that many of the lead free alloys contain Bismuth.
> Isn't this more toxic
> than lead? Am I being naive in my surprise that one toxic chemical is
> being replaced with
> something equally bad?
>
> Regards,
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
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> E-mail Archives
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> additional
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:36:12 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Info on lead free reflow profiles sought
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Eric,
I am still hunting for good net sites for your first request.
With regards to the latter:
No, bismuth is not more toxic. Bismuth oxychloride is used in the =
cosmetics
industry and other bismuth salts (I forget which one(s)) are used in
PeptoBismol=AE (Did I spell that right?) No bismuth compounds are =
listed in
the 1990 "NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards" I have and only =
bismuth
telluride is listed in the ACGIH TLV Booklet - because of the =
tellurium.
Toxicity does come into play in its mining, though, as 10 to 40% =
(depends on
who you talk to and/or whether you are talking world-wide or country
specific) comes as a by-product of lead mining.
regards,
Bev Christian
Research in Motion
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Christison [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 7, 2001 11:36 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Info on lead free reflow profiles sought
After half an hour's fruitless searching of the net I thought of =
Technet.
Can anyone out there point me at a web page or email me a reflow =
profile for
one of the higher
melting point lead free solders. I'm trying to produce a test spec to
determine whether some
temperature sensitive components would survive a 'worst case' reflow =
cycle.
By the way. I note that many of the lead free alloys contain Bismuth. =
Isn't
this more toxic
than lead? Am I being naive in my surprise that one toxic chemical is =
being
replaced with
something equally bad?
Regards,
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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-----
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in
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E-mail Archives
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847-509-9700
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----
-----
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:40:07 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Richard Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Info on lead free reflow profiles sought
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Eric,
I hate to assume anything, so.....in case you are not aware there is a
LeadFreeNet also with IPC, you may want to post this there also.
Richard
At 04:35 PM 12/7/01 +0000, you wrote:
>After half an hour's fruitless searching of the net I thought of Technet.
>
>Can anyone out there point me at a web page or email me a reflow profile
>for one of the higher
>melting point lead free solders. I'm trying to produce a test spec to
>determine whether some
>temperature sensitive components would survive a 'worst case' reflow cycle.
>
>By the way. I note that many of the lead free alloys contain Bismuth.
>Isn't this more toxic
>than lead? Am I being naive in my surprise that one toxic chemical is
>being replaced with
>something equally bad?
>
>Regards,
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:52:54 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dennis Fritz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alkaline Etchant--response
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The following are some tips on running alkaline etchant, especially where
production volume has decreased.
1. Alkaline etchants are formulated with ammonia and chloride contents
appropriate for percentage operating time. You may have now "hitched a race
horse to an ox cart" so to speak. You may want to contact your vendor to
change to a product more suited to your present operation, just as when your
volume went up, you traded your ox for the race horse.
Why is that? Race horse etchants are formulated for say 75% operation time
and frequent sump turnover, - with high chloride (copper capacity) and lower
excess ammonia (little idle time for ammonia evaporation).
2. As much as possible, group your etching work into "bursts" of activity.
Close down the dampers and shut off the sump heat when the etcher is not in
use.
3. Decrease the sump volume as much as possible with glass bricks, or similar
inert media. This will allow more sump turnovers of the spent etchant per
week. Calculate the turnover time for your sump - If it is longer than a
couple of days - you are going to be fighting add-backs of anhydrous ammonia,
or walking a tightrope with aqua ammonia add-backs.
Rudy misses one point in specificaions on incoming alkaline etchant.
Essentially all alkaline etchant uses recycle ammonia, and rest assured the
copper in spent etchant is reclaimed. This ammonia recycle step means the
spec is wider than for formulated products, but when you need to brag about
recycle in your shop, point out that BOTH the copper and the ammonia in your
spent alkaline etch get recycled.
Denny Fritz
MacDermid, Inc.
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:48:23 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: James Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Via repairs
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
I am trying to do some repairs on vias of an assembled board that were
damaged due to test technicians scraping soldermask for ICT. The vias show
signs of thinning/cracking at the knee. IPC 7721 shows that using eyelets
are the acceptable repair for plated thru holes but they do not address vias
anywhere that I am aware of. I can't imagine putting eyelets into a via.
I am considering putting a solid wire into the via and filling it with
solder to make the connection from top to bottom. Is this acceptable? If
not then what is an acceptable method of repair? Any input would be
appreciated.
Sincerely
Jim
_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:05:30 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SURFACE FINISHES
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Charlie! I hadn't seen an assembler's response so I'll deposit mine for
TechNet dissection. We have qualified immersion gold, immersion tin, and
immersion silver as alternative pwb surface finishes for our manufacturing
processes as HASL replacements. I don't foresee any one of the three
alternatives as becoming "dominate" because each has both pro's and con's:
Immersion gold: wonderfully flat, good long term solderability, good
industry availability, BUT black pad issues, its a nasty chemistry on
soldermask, and soldering to nickel is not soldering to copper
Immersion tin: wonderfully flat, metallurgical compatibility, reworkable,
BUT long term solderability issues, compatibility with soldermasks, and
supply sources
Immersion silver: wonderfully flat, reworkable, great RF design
characteristics, BUT supply source issues, metallurgical questions, and
long term solderability questions
I think that the selection of an alternative surface finishes will become a
question of materials organization within a particular manufacturing
environment - HASL made our choices simpler but was definitely robustness
limiting for certain manufacturing flows (like SMT fine pitch).
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/05/2001 11:33:26 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: Re: [TN] SURFACE FINISHES
EARL:
Does your view hold the same from an assemblers point of view.
More specifically, in your history, would the assembler prefer ENIG over
SILVER and/or TIN?
THe assemblers I speak with just do not have the background/experience to
decide. However, they
are quick to reject the bare board vendor for what they THINK is a
solderability problem.
(That's when I move with failure review etc. I hope to reduce this
incidence
dramatically by proposing user friendly finishes based on board design.)
Charlie
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Earl Moon
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] SURFACE FINISHES
As a cost factor to you it's nickle and dime stuff. To most board shops I
work with, it is as well. It's a matter of choice so much that it's almost
subjective (whatever looks best though black pad isn't too pretty) -
excluding HASL, or course. I hope you are right about its final demise.
MoonMann
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:08:00 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Via repairs
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_CC91EC8C.73127F25"
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=_CC91EC8C.73127F25
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
I have used solid wire for a long time and have had no issues with this =
method. I do suggest though to leave a small amount of a tail to lay over =
the pad on each side. I feel that this allows the vertical fill and also =
gives the joint a little more integrity with the lead soldered onto the =
pad also. =20
Kathy=20
--=_CC91EC8C.73127F25
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY
style="FONT: 10pt Abadi MT Condensed Light; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: 2px">
<DIV>I have used solid wire for a long time and have had no issues with this
method. I do suggest though to leave a small amount of a tail to lay over
the pad on each side. I feel that this allows the vertical fill and also
gives the joint a little more integrity with the lead soldered onto the pad
also. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
--=_CC91EC8C.73127F25--
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:51:07 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Peter Swanson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Graham,
You really must see someone about your delusions over UV cured coatings,
which are successfully used to coat many thousands of pcb's each year. I
know someone who has a nice sofa you can stretch out on whilst you tell him
all about it.... <g>
Suitability for UV has nothing to do with 3D v. 2D, more to do with the
complexity of the assembly geometry and the application methodology. These
will determine if a secondary cure mechanism is needed for the application.
In many instances (and with some of our customers), full cure is achieved
just with light.
Regards,
Peter
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Peter Swanson [log in to unmask]
INTERTRONICS http://www.intertronics.co.uk
INTERTRONICS is dedicated to providing quality
material, consumable and equipment solutions to the
electronics manufacturing and other technology based
industries, with the highest levels of technical
support and customer service.
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Naisbitt [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 06 December 2001 16:52
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Mike
You would be better to go with a conventional coating. UV is not ideal for
3D objects - works great in 2D, cos you don't have to bend light! :-)
I cannot remember what the operating environment was for your circuit - if
you would care to repeat, I can recommend something - however, I am sure
that a one part AR or UR coating from a reliable supplier will give you the
best overall results - process and operating environment.
Regards, Graham Naisbitt
[log in to unmask]
www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of
http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
Concoat Limited
Alasan House, Albany Park
CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK
Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100
Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227
Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mike Manwell
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 02:41
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Hello,
Thanks in advance if you have taken the time to read this!
#1- Im trying different materials in a spray application. Both are cured
using UV. One material does a "secondary cure" w/ moisture. This is cool
because after 100 hours after UV cure, all material is fully cured.
The other material Im trying uses HEAT for a secondary cure, or, if
shodowed during UV cure, the material wont cure and never will. Obviously I
dont want the stuff dripping or running anywhere, but being new to this
wonderful process, just dont feel good about leaving uncured material on a
product for it's entire life. Iv been told that you can "test" the product
to see if the uncured material is causing a problem but Im not sure what
type of test that would consist of. Any insight?
#2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their UV
oven to limit shadowing?
Thanks so much,
Mike Manwell
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:51:15 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Peter Swanson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Mike,
Question 1: Whatever cure mechanism you use, be sure not to leave any
uncured material around, as it is likely to cause trouble in the future,
whether it me just messy, or something else. For example, the electrical
characteristics of the uncured coating are likely to be very different than
the cured one.
One point about moisture cure is, of course, that it is moisture dependent,
and as Jon More stated, not in your control - can vary in cure time from
very short to, sometimes, not at all!
Question 2: A good idea if your pcb geometry needs it. Years ago, I saw a
curing machine where the lamp was swung back and forth in an arc over the
conveyor whilst the assembly moved through, to help in this area. Lamps can
also be added on the sides of conveyors, giving extra light perpendicular to
the overhead lamp.
If you can choose a coating which cures with UV *and* visible light, you
might find a better result. The visible light travels farther, reflects and
bounces around into the nooks and crannies much better.
Regards,
Peter
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Peter Swanson [log in to unmask]
INTERTRONICS http://www.intertronics.co.uk
INTERTRONICS is dedicated to providing quality
material, consumable and equipment solutions to the
electronics manufacturing and other technology based
industries, with the highest levels of technical
support and customer service.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Manwell [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 06 December 2001 14:41
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Hello,
Thanks in advance if you have taken the time to read this!
#1- Im trying different materials in a spray application. Both are cured
using UV. One material does a "secondary cure" w/ moisture. This is cool
because after 100 hours after UV cure, all material is fully cured.
The other material Im trying uses HEAT for a secondary cure, or, if
shodowed during UV cure, the material wont cure and never will. Obviously I
dont want the stuff dripping or running anywhere, but being new to this
wonderful process, just dont feel good about leaving uncured material on a
product for it's entire life. Iv been told that you can "test" the product
to see if the uncured material is causing a problem but Im not sure what
type of test that would consist of. Any insight?
#2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their UV
oven to limit shadowing?
Thanks so much,
Mike Manwell
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:36:13 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SURFACE FINISHES
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello Mr. Hillman:
Thank you very much for your input. Your time is most appreciated.
As a board supplier I do prefer ENIG when process control is superior
(black pad notwithstanding). However, it is the customer
who is King and our goal is to surpass their requirements for quality
and reliablity. As CM's are now a driving force as to vendor choice,
their needs
have become a primary influencer in choosing friendly surface finishes
beneficial to their process.
What comments might you have relative to solderability problems found
specific to silver/gold/tin coatings.
When the design calls for fine pitch what do you choose for your
facility? And why?
Regarding silver again; would corrosion of the surface upon exposure to
flux be an issue at rework?
Secondly, when reflow issues arise, have you found them to be traced
back to the thickness of the silver itself (or lack of thickness)?
One view is that as lead is taken out of the PCB fab process, one of
these alternative finishes will dominate. The driver will be
rework/touch-up flexibility as to which one wins. Would you agree?
Your insights are thanked for in advance.
Charlie McMahon
McMahon Sales Company
David Hillman wrote:
>Hi Charlie! I hadn't seen an assembler's response so I'll deposit mine for
>TechNet dissection. We have qualified immersion gold, immersion tin, and
>immersion silver as alternative pwb surface finishes for our manufacturing
>processes as HASL replacements. I don't foresee any one of the three
>alternatives as becoming "dominate" because each has both pro's and con's:
>
>Immersion gold: wonderfully flat, good long term solderability, good
>industry availability, BUT black pad issues, its a nasty chemistry on
>soldermask, and soldering to nickel is not soldering to copper
>
>Immersion tin: wonderfully flat, metallurgical compatibility, reworkable,
>BUT long term solderability issues, compatibility with soldermasks, and
>supply sources
>
>Immersion silver: wonderfully flat, reworkable, great RF design
>characteristics, BUT supply source issues, metallurgical questions, and
>long term solderability questions
>
>I think that the selection of an alternative surface finishes will become a
>question of materials organization within a particular manufacturing
>environment - HASL made our choices simpler but was definitely robustness
>limiting for certain manufacturing flows (like SMT fine pitch).
>
>Dave Hillman
>Rockwell Collins
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
>Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/05/2001 11:33:26 AM
>
>Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
>
>Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>cc:
>
>Subject: Re: [TN] SURFACE FINISHES
>
>
>EARL:
>
>Does your view hold the same from an assemblers point of view.
>
>More specifically, in your history, would the assembler prefer ENIG over
>SILVER and/or TIN?
>THe assemblers I speak with just do not have the background/experience to
>decide. However, they
>are quick to reject the bare board vendor for what they THINK is a
>solderability problem.
>(That's when I move with failure review etc. I hope to reduce this
>incidence
>dramatically by proposing user friendly finishes based on board design.)
>
>Charlie
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Earl Moon
>Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:14 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] SURFACE FINISHES
>
>
>As a cost factor to you it's nickle and dime stuff. To most board shops I
>work with, it is as well. It's a matter of choice so much that it's almost
>subjective (whatever looks best though black pad isn't too pretty) -
>excluding HASL, or course. I hope you are right about its final demise.
>
>MoonMann
>
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:59:39 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Rick Howieson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
We purchased an ERSAScope recently after evaluating both X-Ray & ERSA. We
are now in the process of getting two more ESRAScopes. All the features have
been beneficial to us.
Rick Howieson
Delta Group Electronics, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:44 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection
> TechNet Friends,
> We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
> X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It appears
> to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options to
> make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do add
> value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated such
> tools.
> Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they
> as fully developed as the ERSA?
>
> Thanks for your help with this one,
> I
>
> Greg Anderson
> Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> GE Fanuc Automation
> Charlottesville, VA 22911
> Phone: 434-978-5181
> FAX: 434-978-5898
> e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:44:17 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Graham Collins <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Greg!
We recently bought an ErsaScope, after checking out the alternatives at =
Apex last year. There are a couple of companies making similar products, =
for similar prices. We went with the Ersa system. The Ersa seems more =
fully developed than the others - purpose built vs adapted. And viewing =
on the PC gives you some flexibility that the others didn't - just live =
video monitors typically.
The ErsaScope comes with some well developed software. Will you truly use =
all it's functions?? It depends, but we don't. The defect / QA library it =
comes with - we don't use. We use it for inspection, and for =
documenting things like problem parts.. It's great for taking pictures. =
We didn't go for the Magniscope option, if I had to do it again I might. =
=20
regards
Graham Collins
Process Engineer,=20
Northrop Grumman
Atlantic Facility of Litton Systems Canada
(902) 873-2000 ext 6215
>>> [log in to unmask] 12/07/01 12:43PM >>>
> TechNet Friends,
> We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
> X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It =
appears
> to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options =
to
> make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do =
add
> value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated such
> tools.
> Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they
> as fully developed as the ERSA?
>
> Thanks for your help with this one,
> I
>
> Greg Anderson
> Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> GE Fanuc Automation
> Charlottesville, VA 22911
> Phone: 434-978-5181
> FAX: 434-978-5898
> e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
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E-mail Archives
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:49:57 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="part1_177.5fb76f.29427765_boundary"
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Greg!
We've had a ERSA scope for about a year now, and I like it. We originally
bought it because we ran into a problem with a BGA that we were placing on
one of our customers boards. It was a super BGA from TI and they obsoleted
it, the replacement from TI had a big metal heatsink in the top of it and the
Glennbrook RTX-113 we have wasn't powerfull enough for us to see through it,
so we bought the ERSA scope.
It takes a little while to get used to using it, but I like it. X-ray can do
things that the ERSA scope can't, and the ERSA scope can do things that X-ray
can't. I feel that they compliment each other.
There's been more than a few times that test has given me a board telling me
that the BGA has shorted and needs replacing. I would inspect it under the
ERSA scope and give it back to them telling them that there isn't a short on
the BGA....sure enough, after they did some more trouble-shooting it turned
out to be something else.
-Steve Gregory-
-Steve Gregory-
> TechNet Friends,
> > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
> > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It appears
> > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options to
> > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do add
> > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated such
> > tools.
> > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they
> > as fully developed as the ERSA?
> >
> > Thanks for your help with this one,
> > I
> >
> > Greg Anderson
> > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> > GE Fanuc Automation
> > Charlottesville, VA 22911
> > Phone: 434-978-5181
> > FAX: 434-978-5898
> > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
--part1_177.5fb76f.29427765_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Greg!
<BR>
<BR>We've had a ERSA scope for about a year now, and I like it. We originally bought it because we ran into a problem with a BGA that we were placing on one of our customers boards. It was a super BGA from TI and they obsoleted it, the replacement from TI had a big metal heatsink in the top of it and the Glennbrook RTX-113 we have wasn't powerfull enough for us to see through it, so we bought the ERSA scope.
<BR>
<BR>It takes a little while to get used to using it, but I like it. X-ray can do things that the ERSA scope can't, and the ERSA scope can do things that X-ray can't. I feel that they compliment each other.
<BR>
<BR>There's been more than a few times that test has given me a board telling me that the BGA has shorted and needs replacing. I would inspect it under the ERSA scope and give it back to them telling them that there isn't a short on the BGA....sure enough, after they did some more trouble-shooting it turned out to be something else.
<BR>
<BR>-Steve Gregory-
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>-Steve Gregory-
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">TechNet Friends,
<BR>> We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
<BR>> X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It appears
<BR>> to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options to
<BR>> make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do add
<BR>> value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
<BR>> I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated such
<BR>> tools.
<BR>> Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
<BR>> Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they
<BR>> as fully developed as the ERSA?
<BR>>
<BR>> Thanks for your help with this one,
<BR>> I
<BR>>
<BR>> Greg Anderson
<BR>> Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
<BR>> GE Fanuc Automation
<BR>> Charlottesville, VA 22911
<BR>> Phone: 434-978-5181
<BR>> FAX: 434-978-5898
<BR>> e-mail: [log in to unmask]
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT></HTML>
--part1_177.5fb76f.29427765_boundary--
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:01:22 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Scott Kauling <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Tri-onics, Inc.
Subject: PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position
In IPC 2221 section 9.2.2 describes hole location tolerance, it is
expressed as "diameter about true position". IPC T-50 defines "true
position", not diameter about true position.
My questions are:
1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true position?
2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify on your
fab prints
3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position that PWB
fabricators hold?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Have a good weekend!
Scott Kauling
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:38:19 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Roger M. Stoops" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true position?
Table 9-3 defines the diameter about true position, or tolerance around
true position expressed as a circular value, compared to the square
tolerance area with non-GD&T dimensioning. IPC-2615 does a pretty good job
explaining how GD&T works (for the curious). Figure 6-8 on page 28 of
IPC-2615 helps answer your question.
2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify on your
fab prints?
Though Table 9-3 specifies 0.2mm for Level B boards, I typically specify
0.15mm, or 0.006, MMC. As the drill/hole size gets larger, the tolerance
zone increases in size. For non-critical features, I specify 0.2mm or
0.25mm.
3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position that PWB
fabricators hold?
I'll leave this to one of our fabricator friends.
Roger M. Stoops, C.I.D., PCB Designer
[log in to unmask]
Trimble
Engineering and Construction Division
5475 Kellenburger Rd.
Dayton, OH 45424-1099 USA
Ph: +01 937.233.8921 or +01 937.233.4574 ext 288
Fax: +01 937.233.7511
Scott Kauling
<skauling@TRI- To: [log in to unmask]
ONICS.COM> cc:
Sent by: Subject: [TN] PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position
TechNet
<[log in to unmask]
RG>
12/07/01 03:01
PM
Please respond
to "TechNet
E-Mail Forum."
In IPC 2221 section 9.2.2 describes hole location tolerance, it is
expressed as "diameter about true position". IPC T-50 defines "true
position", not diameter about true position.
My questions are:
1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true
position?
2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify on
your
fab prints
3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position
that PWB
fabricators hold?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Have a good weekend!
Scott Kauling
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:03:34 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
hi,
true position can be expressed as a radius or a diameter. possibly this is what your dimension is telling you.
phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kauling [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:01 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position
In IPC 2221 section 9.2.2 describes hole location tolerance, it is
expressed as "diameter about true position". IPC T-50 defines "true
position", not diameter about true position.
My questions are:
1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true position?
2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify on your
fab prints
3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position that PWB
fabricators hold?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Have a good weekend!
Scott Kauling
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:42:08 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Will Cabrera <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: BGA Rework Equipment
I work for a small OEM company and I am looking for BGA rework equipment
for in-house use. We sub out our low-volume PCA assembly and ICT. Any
recommendations on what BGA Rework equipment/supplier I can evaluate?
Will
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:17:36 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BGA Rework Equipment
Mime-Version: 1.0
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If you like to out source things just do the same for BGA repair, the good
equipment (SRT) can be $50-70K and it requires
a bit of experiance to get it right. Develop removal profiles, site clean-up and
prep, repair damaged pads and mask, reballing
BGAs, micro stencil paste, reflow profiles, This could be a long process to
develope. Try to send out Citcuit Tech.
http://www.circuittechctr.com/services/bga.htm
is one of many who can do it. Good luck!
Will Cabrera <[log in to unmask]> on 12/07/2001 03:42:08 PM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Warren Crow/US/I-O INC)
Subject: [TN] BGA Rework Equipment
I work for a small OEM company and I am looking for BGA rework equipment
for in-house use. We sub out our low-volume PCA assembly and ICT. Any
recommendations on what BGA Rework equipment/supplier I can evaluate?
Will
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:22:23 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Look to the SMTA Knowledgebase for:
09/24/2000 "COMBINING VISUAL AND X-RAY INSPECTION OF AREA ARRAY DEVICES "
Douglas J. Peck, AEIC
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:43 AM
Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection
> > TechNet Friends,
> > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
> > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It
appears
> > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options
to
> > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do
add
> > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated such
> > tools.
> > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they
> > as fully developed as the ERSA?
> >
> > Thanks for your help with this one,
> > I
> >
> > Greg Anderson
> > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> > GE Fanuc Automation
> > Charlottesville, VA 22911
> > Phone: 434-978-5181
> > FAX: 434-978-5898
> > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>
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Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 05:23:36 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA Rework Equipment
X-To: [log in to unmask]
I really echo Warren's message. When first developing HP's BGA rework
process, using SRT, it took three months to get everything almost right.
Then, there were surprises needing rectification. It never really ended as
new boards and components were designed and built plus CPI.
The process first must be developed. It must be transferred to manufacturing
including all procedures for everyone and all parts involved, or those
perceived to be, it must be validated for each part on each board type, and
operators must be trained for each shift. Though most all operators great at
their jobs, some definitely caught on quicker and did consistently better
jobs than others.
Profiles alone can take much development time, and they're long themselves,
no matter the paste or original assembly profile. Parts must be removed and
sites cleaned and touched up and thoroughly inspected. A costly supply of
nozzles must be bought as well. Micro stencils must be purchased and
processes developed for their use. Part replacement and reflow processes
must be right on. X-ray inspection is a must for rework, as it is for
prototypes, before final test, and on it goes.
This is a good one to "farm out." I think you already knew this or are an
excellent rework engineer yourself.
MoonMan
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Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 17:45:23 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Plating and Resin Recession
X-To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Roger,
Thicker copper deposits have indeed greater (but not better) elongation
values than thinner deposits. This, however, does not mean that thinner
deposits have less ductility; the lower elongation value is an artifact of
using a test method which is inappropriate for sample geometries like plated
copper foils. Elongation tests work well for specimen for circular and square
cross-section; foil specimen have a cross-sectional aspect ratio of 500 to
1000, which creates this type of artifact.
This is the reason test methods specific for foils (ASTM E 796 "Standard Test
Method for Ductility Testing of Metallic Foil," IPC-TM-650, TM 2.4.2.1
"Flexural Fatigue and Ductility, Foil" ) were developed. These test methods
show there is no difference in ductility for thin or thick foils from the
same batch.
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Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:01:01 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
In-Reply-To: <51858C36CF03D311847F00508B2C40B211AFF2@INTERTRONICS_01>
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Peter,
I am semi-comatose now, so please, tell us what exactly are the advantages
of UV curable coatings?
Regards, Graham Naisbitt
[log in to unmask]
www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of
http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
Concoat Limited
Alasan House, Albany Park
CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK
Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100
Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227
Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Peter Swanson
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 05:51
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Graham,
You really must see someone about your delusions over UV cured coatings,
which are successfully used to coat many thousands of pcb's each year. I
know someone who has a nice sofa you can stretch out on whilst you tell him
all about it.... <g>
Suitability for UV has nothing to do with 3D v. 2D, more to do with the
complexity of the assembly geometry and the application methodology. These
will determine if a secondary cure mechanism is needed for the application.
In many instances (and with some of our customers), full cure is achieved
just with light.
Regards,
Peter
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Peter Swanson [log in to unmask]
INTERTRONICS http://www.intertronics.co.uk
INTERTRONICS is dedicated to providing quality
material, consumable and equipment solutions to the
electronics manufacturing and other technology based
industries, with the highest levels of technical
support and customer service.
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Naisbitt [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 06 December 2001 16:52
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Mike
You would be better to go with a conventional coating. UV is not ideal for
3D objects - works great in 2D, cos you don't have to bend light! :-)
I cannot remember what the operating environment was for your circuit - if
you would care to repeat, I can recommend something - however, I am sure
that a one part AR or UR coating from a reliable supplier will give you the
best overall results - process and operating environment.
Regards, Graham Naisbitt
[log in to unmask]
www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of
http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
Concoat Limited
Alasan House, Albany Park
CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK
Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100
Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227
Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mike Manwell
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 02:41
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Hello,
Thanks in advance if you have taken the time to read this!
#1- Im trying different materials in a spray application. Both are cured
using UV. One material does a "secondary cure" w/ moisture. This is cool
because after 100 hours after UV cure, all material is fully cured.
The other material Im trying uses HEAT for a secondary cure, or, if
shodowed during UV cure, the material wont cure and never will. Obviously I
dont want the stuff dripping or running anywhere, but being new to this
wonderful process, just dont feel good about leaving uncured material on a
product for it's entire life. Iv been told that you can "test" the product
to see if the uncured material is causing a problem but Im not sure what
type of test that would consist of. Any insight?
#2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their UV
oven to limit shadowing?
Thanks so much,
Mike Manwell
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Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:49:34 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_122.8d2ce8e.2945447e_boundary"
--part1_122.8d2ce8e.2945447e_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
We do a LOT of conformal coatings for military applications, mostly thermal
cure / two part applications...UV cure has all the problems that you speak
of. The material that we use has a UV tracer so that we can see problems from
the original coating operation....
In my opinion, UV cure coating ONLY, is not a good thing....
-Steve Gregory-
> Peter,
>
> I am semi-comatose now, so please, tell us what exactly are the advantages
> of UV curable coatings?
>
> Regards, Graham Naisbitt
>
> [log in to unmask]
> www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
>
> For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of
> http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
>
> Concoat Limited
> Alasan House, Albany Park
> CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK
> Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100
> Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227
> Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Peter Swanson
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 05:51
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
>
>
> Graham,
>
> You really must see someone about your delusions over UV cured coatings,
> which are successfully used to coat many thousands of pcb's each year. I
> know someone who has a nice sofa you can stretch out on whilst you tell him
> all about it.... <g>
>
> Suitability for UV has nothing to do with 3D v. 2D, more to do with the
> complexity of the assembly geometry and the application methodology. These
> will determine if a secondary cure mechanism is needed for the application.
> In many instances (and with some of our customers), full cure is achieved
> just with light.
>
> Regards,
> Peter
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Peter Swanson [log in to unmask]
> INTERTRONICS http://www.intertronics.co.uk
>
> INTERTRONICS is dedicated to providing quality
> material, consumable and equipment solutions to the
> electronics manufacturing and other technology based
> industries, with the highest levels of technical
> support and customer service.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Graham Naisbitt [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 06 December 2001 16:52
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
>
>
> Mike
>
> You would be better to go with a conventional coating. UV is not ideal for
> 3D objects - works great in 2D, cos you don't have to bend light! :-)
>
> I cannot remember what the operating environment was for your circuit - if
> you would care to repeat, I can recommend something - however, I am sure
> that a one part AR or UR coating from a reliable supplier will give you the
> best overall results - process and operating environment.
>
> Regards, Graham Naisbitt
>
> [log in to unmask]
> www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
>
> For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of
> http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
>
> Concoat Limited
> Alasan House, Albany Park
> CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK
> Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100
> Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227
> Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mike Manwell
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 02:41
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
>
>
> Hello,
> Thanks in advance if you have taken the time to read this!
>
> #1- Im trying different materials in a spray application. Both are cured
> using UV. One material does a "secondary cure" w/ moisture. This is cool
> because after 100 hours after UV cure, all material is fully cured.
> The other material Im trying uses HEAT for a secondary cure, or, if
> shodowed during UV cure, the material wont cure and never will. Obviously I
> dont want the stuff dripping or running anywhere, but being new to this
> wonderful process, just dont feel good about leaving uncured material on a
> product for it's entire life. Iv been told that you can "test" the product
> to see if the uncured material is causing a problem but Im not sure what
> type of test that would consist of. Any insight?
>
> #2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their UV
> oven to limit shadowing?
>
> Thanks so much,
>
> Mike Manwell
>
--part1_122.8d2ce8e.2945447e_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>We do a LOT of conformal coatings for military applications, mostly thermal cure / two part applications...UV cure has all the problems that you speak of. The material that we use has a UV tracer so that we can see problems from the original coating operation....<BR>
<BR>
In my opinion, UV cure coating ONLY, is not a good thing....<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Peter,<BR>
<BR>
I am semi-comatose now, so please, tell us what exactly are the advantages<BR>
of UV curable coatings?<BR>
<BR>
Regards, Graham Naisbitt<BR>
<BR>
[log in to unmask]<BR>
www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of<BR>
http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
Concoat Limited<BR>
Alasan House, Albany Park<BR>
CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK<BR>
Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100<BR>
Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227<BR>
Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Peter Swanson<BR>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 05:51<BR>
To: [log in to unmask]<BR>
Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Graham,<BR>
<BR>
You really must see someone about your delusions over UV cured coatings,<BR>
which are successfully used to coat many thousands of pcb's each year. I<BR>
know someone who has a nice sofa you can stretch out on whilst you tell him<BR>
all about it.... <g><BR>
<BR>
Suitability for UV has nothing to do with 3D v. 2D, more to do with the<BR>
complexity of the assembly geometry and the application methodology. These<BR>
will determine if a secondary cure mechanism is needed for the application.<BR>
In many instances (and with some of our customers), full cure is achieved<BR>
just with light.<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
Peter<BR>
--<BR>
--------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Peter Swanson [log in to unmask]<BR>
INTERTRONICS http://www.intertronics.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
INTERTRONICS is dedicated to providing quality<BR>
material, consumable and equipment solutions to the<BR>
electronics manufacturing and other technology based<BR>
industries, with the highest levels of technical<BR>
support and customer service.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Graham Naisbitt [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR>
Sent: 06 December 2001 16:52<BR>
To: [log in to unmask]<BR>
Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
You would be better to go with a conventional coating. UV is not ideal for<BR>
3D objects - works great in 2D, cos you don't have to bend light! :-)<BR>
<BR>
I cannot remember what the operating environment was for your circuit - if<BR>
you would care to repeat, I can recommend something - however, I am sure<BR>
that a one part AR or UR coating from a reliable supplier will give you the<BR>
best overall results - process and operating environment.<BR>
<BR>
Regards, Graham Naisbitt<BR>
<BR>
[log in to unmask]<BR>
www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of<BR>
http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
Concoat Limited<BR>
Alasan House, Albany Park<BR>
CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK<BR>
Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100<BR>
Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227<BR>
Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mike Manwell<BR>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 02:41<BR>
To: [log in to unmask]<BR>
Subject: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hello,<BR>
Thanks in advance if you have taken the time to read this!<BR>
<BR>
#1- Im trying different materials in a spray application. Both are cured<BR>
using UV. One material does a "secondary cure" w/ moisture. This is cool<BR>
because after 100 hours after UV cure, all material is fully cured.<BR>
The other material Im trying uses HEAT for a secondary cure, or, if<BR>
shodowed during UV cure, the material wont cure and never will. Obviously I<BR>
dont want the stuff dripping or running anywhere, but being new to this<BR>
wonderful process, just dont feel good about leaving uncured material on a<BR>
product for it's entire life. Iv been told that you can "test" the product<BR>
to see if the uncured material is causing a problem but Im not sure what<BR>
type of test that would consist of. Any insight?<BR>
<BR>
#2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their UV<BR>
oven to limit shadowing?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks so much,<BR>
<BR>
Mike Manwell<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_122.8d2ce8e.2945447e_boundary--
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:57:12 +1100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: DUTTON Phil <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hello Scott,
The 'True Position' dimension, (boxed, sometimes also called 'basic') is
without tolerance.
The positional tolerance (in the case for example of a drilled hole) is
expressed as a diameter, within which, the centre of the actual hole must
lie. This positional tolerance diameter is 'normal' to a reference datum as
well.
I usually specify a diameter positional tolerance of 0.08mm for the pattern
of drilled holes on the board, and use a diameter positional tolerance of
0.2mm to position the drilled hole pattern on the PCB profile.
These values are based on our manufacturers' typical capabilities for good
yield.
hope this helps a bit..
regards,
Phil.
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kauling [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Saturday, 8 December 2001 06:31
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position
In IPC 2221 section 9.2.2 describes hole location tolerance, it is
expressed as "diameter about true position". IPC T-50 defines "true
position", not diameter about true position.
My questions are:
1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true
position?
2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify on
your
fab prints
3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position
that PWB
fabricators hold?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Have a good weekend!
Scott Kauling
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Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:45:42 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jon Moore <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA Rework Equipment
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I have always liked the Pace TF2000 and the Air-Vac systems
Jon Moore
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Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:12:54 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Adam Seychell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: carbon black direct metallization
I am a hobbyist doing some research into the carbon black method for making
double sided PTH boards at home. My research so far has mainly been
reading the numerous patents and journals on the subject, plus countless
hours spent in my lab (an old tin shed) trying different chemistry and
processes. I'm at the point where through hole conductivity due to carbon is
below 2000 ohms for a single 1.5mm diameter hole. This proved to
be sufficient for void free plating in acid copper (200g/l H2SO4, 60g/l
CuSO4). What makes carbon process most attractive for me is the low toxicity
and costs.
From what I understand this is a relatively new area in PCB manufacture (<
12 years) and technical information is difficult to come by. This has been
the reason for my own pain staking research. Theory of colloid suspensions
and surface interaction is way out of my league, and so its all been a trial
and error. If anyone is interested I can post the details of what I've
discovered so far. For me, I'd be interested discussing with anyone the
details of the carbon dispersion process. There are many questions, such as
how long to the dispersions last before carbon particles aggregate and
become ineffective ? I've learned that the conditioner is a critical step
before the carbon dip, since it is responsible for getting the carbon to
stick to the surface. 0.3% (wt) gelatin showed to be very effective for
this. What formulations are typical used for conditioners ?
regards,
Adam Seychell
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:26:01 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: kevinyeah <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Aluminum/paper/Aluminum
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:40:33 -0000
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Fenner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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It's possible that if this correspondence goes on like some of the threads
here quite a few people will end up semi comatose, but perhaps not in the
way you meant:)
Can we also hear if cross linking only takes place by exposure to UV/light
or is initiated by UV/light. And if initiated how is the cure completed?
Best regards
Mike Fenner
Applications Engineer, European Operations
Indium Corporation
T: + 44 1908 580 400
M: + 44 7810 526 317
F: + 44 1908 580 411
E: [log in to unmask]
W: www.indium.com
Leadfree: http://Pb-Free.com
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Graham Naisbitt
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 7:01 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Peter,
I am semi-comatose now, so please, tell us what exactly are the advantages
of UV curable coatings?
Regards, Graham Naisbitt
[log in to unmask]
www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of
http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
Concoat Limited
Alasan House, Albany Park
CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK
Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100
Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227
Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Peter Swanson
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 05:51
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Graham,
You really must see someone about your delusions over UV cured coatings,
which are successfully used to coat many thousands of pcb's each year. I
know someone who has a nice sofa you can stretch out on whilst you tell him
all about it.... <g>
Suitability for UV has nothing to do with 3D v. 2D, more to do with the
complexity of the assembly geometry and the application methodology. These
will determine if a secondary cure mechanism is needed for the application.
In many instances (and with some of our customers), full cure is achieved
just with light.
Regards,
Peter
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Peter Swanson [log in to unmask]
INTERTRONICS http://www.intertronics.co.uk
INTERTRONICS is dedicated to providing quality
material, consumable and equipment solutions to the
electronics manufacturing and other technology based
industries, with the highest levels of technical
support and customer service.
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Naisbitt [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 06 December 2001 16:52
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Mike
You would be better to go with a conventional coating. UV is not ideal for
3D objects - works great in 2D, cos you don't have to bend light! :-)
I cannot remember what the operating environment was for your circuit - if
you would care to repeat, I can recommend something - however, I am sure
that a one part AR or UR coating from a reliable supplier will give you the
best overall results - process and operating environment.
Regards, Graham Naisbitt
[log in to unmask]
www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of
http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
Concoat Limited
Alasan House, Albany Park
CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK
Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100
Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227
Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mike Manwell
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 02:41
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Hello,
Thanks in advance if you have taken the time to read this!
#1- Im trying different materials in a spray application. Both are cured
using UV. One material does a "secondary cure" w/ moisture. This is cool
because after 100 hours after UV cure, all material is fully cured.
The other material Im trying uses HEAT for a secondary cure, or, if
shodowed during UV cure, the material wont cure and never will. Obviously I
dont want the stuff dripping or running anywhere, but being new to this
wonderful process, just dont feel good about leaving uncured material on a
product for it's entire life. Iv been told that you can "test" the product
to see if the uncured material is causing a problem but Im not sure what
type of test that would consist of. Any insight?
#2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their UV
oven to limit shadowing?
Thanks so much,
Mike Manwell
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:56:41 -0000
Reply-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dougal Stewart <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aluminum/paper/Aluminum
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Kevin, Al/paper/Al is used as entry and/or backing board for drilling PCBs, and is thrown away as a consumable.
-----Original Message-----
From: kevinyeah [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 10 December 2001 03:26
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Aluminum/paper/Aluminum
<< File: ATT00003.txt; charset = GB2312 >> << File: ATT00004.htm; charset = GB2312 >>
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:22:45 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Test e-mail
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I think I'm back...
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:19:35 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Houston, Terri" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Looking for flex design and build shop
Hi All,
I'm looking for a shop to design and build an oddly twisted, Y-shaped flex
circuit with connectors at the 3 ends. It must be shielded (3 layer) and
must withstand temperatures from -40 to 100C. Volumes are relatively low (a
few thousand/year).
If any of you have good experience with such a shop that does this for a
living, please send me contact information off TechNet.
Thanks in advance,
Terri
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:28:54 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "McGlaughlin, Jeffrey A" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Current carrying capacity of filled vias?
MIME-version: 1.0
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Does anyone have any data on the current carrying capacity of vias filled
with conductively filled vias. We have a need to carry ~2.5 amps per via and
by our calculations we are at about 1.7A with larges via design space
allows.
Thanks in advance.
Jeffrey A. McGlaughlin CID
Sr. Designer
Battelle Memorial Institute
Columbus Ohio
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:39:16 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Conformal Coating Process
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Happy Monday, Technet:
I'm trying to qualify a new cleaning process for electrical assemblies prior
to conformal coating (Military boards). The old MIL Specs had as
cleanliness requirement of 2 meg-ohms minimum, is this all I need to do,
verify cleanliness to 2 meg-ohms? What about subjecting the assemblies to
10-day elevated temp/humidity (steady state)? Any recommendations?
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:45:34 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Gary Ferrari <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SNEC MTG
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MEETING OF THE SOUTHERN NEW ENGLAND CHAPTER
OF THE IPC DESIGNERS COUNCIL
Date: Wednesday, the 12th of December 2001
Where: Connies Restaurant - Derby, Ct.
Time: Networking 6:00pm, Meeting 7:00pm
Topic: Thermal Management
We have planned a very exciting presentation by Gareth Parry, Field
Applications Engineer at Coretec Canada on Thermal Management at the board
level.
Gareth's presentation is an in depth look at the abilities to meet the
growing demand of thermal dissipation of the printed wired board. We will
investigate the use of
IMpcb and ITSpcb technologies and their associated design and
manufacturability considerations.
Gareth will take us through the use of heavy copper, thermal vias, thermally
dissipative materials and integrated heatsinks. A must for the thermally
challenged circuit board designer.
This is an extremely popular presentation and I advise you respond as soon as
possible because space is limited.
Do not forget that this is our holiday get together. Let us end the year with
the sense of sharing ourselves with our fellow members as we have met the
challenges of 2001 and face the challenges of 2002.
Host:
The meeting will be hosted by Coretec. Cortec is one of the leading
fabricators of printed circuit boards "PCBs" in the North American and
European markets. Their solutions include field engineering support, R&D, PCB
education, PCB design and consulting, Prototype fabrication and QTA
production.
You are requested to RSVP Vin Stabile by end of business on Tuesday at (203)
225-9056 X4142 or [log in to unmask]
Directions to Connie's Restaurant:
Take Route 84 to Route 8 South.
Take Route 8 to Route 34, towards Derby.
Make a right turn at the SECOND traffic light.
Connies is one block, on the right.
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:11:57 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Conformal Coating Process
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I'm trying to qualify a new cleaning process for electrical assemblies
prior
to conformal coating (Military boards). The old MIL Specs had as
cleanliness requirement of 2 meg-ohms minimum, is this all I need to do,
verify cleanliness to 2 meg-ohms? What about subjecting the assemblies to
10-day elevated temp/humidity (steady state)? Any recommendations?
*Jim, to your first question, Yes. When changing a cleaning operation, and
not changing fluxes, MIL-STD-2000A only required Appendix C testing, which
was the standard ROSE test. The 2 megohm-cm requirement translates to the
more familiar 10.06 micrograms sodium chloride equivalence per square inch,
whatever that becomes translated to the specific ionic cleanliness tester.
We all know what a crock that test is, but it still exists, especially in
military contracts.
Two questions you should be asking: What data does my customer need to
see? and I just trying to meet contractual requirements or REALLY show that
the change is not detrimental?
If the customer leaves it totally to you, then I suggest that you do both.
The ROSE test, bogus as it may be, is very easy to do and satisfies the
contractually focussed types. As to a longer temperature-humidity
exposure, that is a fairly good idea. What tests to you perform now to
tell you if product is good or bad? Do that same test but extend the test
time about 50% and run on hardware cleaned with the new method. At
Collins, our products go through -55 to 125C cycling to catch infant
mortality types of failures, er...ahhh... not that we EVER see such
failures, mind you....., and when we have a process change, we use the same
environmental screen.
Doug Pauls
Rockwell Collins
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:11:52 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Scott Westheimer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SPC Chart
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C1815A.B5222C80"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C1815A.B5222C80
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Can I ask if someone could send me a soft copy of an SPC Chart.
Thanks=20
Scott B. Westheimer
General Manager
Gultech North Carolina, Inc.
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
Phone: (919)872-0100
Fax: (919)713-4849
Cell: (919)649-1510
Direct# (919)-713-4830
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C1815A.B5222C80
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can I ask if someone could send me a =
soft copy of=20
an SPC Chart.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Scott B. Westheimer<BR>General =
Manager<BR>Gultech=20
North Carolina, Inc.<BR>E-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A><B=
R>Phone:=20
(919)872-0100<BR>Fax: (919)713-4849<BR>Cell: (919)649-1510<BR>Direct#=20
(919)-713-4830<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 06:29:40 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Denis Lefebvre <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Looking for flex design and build shop
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask] >
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Try Parlex... www.parlex.com
At 07:19 AM 12/10/2001 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I'm looking for a shop to design and build an oddly twisted, Y-shaped flex
>circuit with connectors at the 3 ends. It must be shielded (3 layer) and
>must withstand temperatures from -40 to 100C. Volumes are relatively low (a
>few thousand/year).
>
>If any of you have good experience with such a shop that does this for a
>living, please send me contact information off TechNet.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Terri
>
>[log in to unmask]
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:46:05 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Conformal Coating Process
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James
Father Doug has said it all. Whatever, forget your 2 megohm malarky,
which is utterly meaningless unless you go back to the original work by
Hobson et al. in 1969 and should never have got into a MIL Spec, in the
first place. Use a decent commercial ionic contamination tester -- there
are a number of models commercially available -- establish a baseline
result with it, using your old cleaning method (which, presumably, was
acceptable) and then use that as your criterion for the new method. It
is a starting point, albeit that the absolute value is more or less
meaningless. Then do your SIR/ECMR testing to qualify your process. If
everything passes with flying colours, you can then use your established
baseline values of ionic contamination as the criterion for continued
process control of the fluxing/soldering/cleaning process. Any
consistent variations in either direction with a single given PCB
assembly type means that something has gone out of kilter. Do NOT ignore
better-than-baseline results: they can mean that your process is way
out: the fact that ionic contamination is better for no apparent reason
MAY seem to be good news, but it could also be bad news.
Brian
"Marsico, James" wrote:
>
> Happy Monday, Technet:
>
> I'm trying to qualify a new cleaning process for electrical assemblies prior
> to conformal coating (Military boards). The old MIL Specs had as
> cleanliness requirement of 2 meg-ohms minimum, is this all I need to do,
> verify cleanliness to 2 meg-ohms? What about subjecting the assemblies to
> 10-day elevated temp/humidity (steady state)? Any recommendations?
>
> Jim Marsico
> Senior Engineer
> Production Engineering
> EDO Electronics Systems Group
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> 631-595-5879
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:56:23 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Houston, Terri" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Looking for flex design and build shop
Will do.
Thanks.
> ----------
> From: Denis Lefebvre[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 9:29 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Looking for flex design and build shop
>
> Try Parlex... www.parlex.com
> At 07:19 AM 12/10/2001 -0600, you wrote:
> >Hi All,
> >
> >I'm looking for a shop to design and build an oddly twisted, Y-shaped
> flex
> >circuit with connectors at the 3 ends. It must be shielded (3 layer) and
> >must withstand temperatures from -40 to 100C. Volumes are relatively low
> (a
> >few thousand/year).
> >
> >If any of you have good experience with such a shop that does this for a
> >living, please send me contact information off TechNet.
> >
> >Thanks in advance,
> >Terri
> >
> >[log in to unmask]
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >E-mail Archives
> >Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> additional
> >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> >ext.5315
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 07:25:45 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Carl VanWormer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Current carrying capacity of filled vias?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I know that this is not what you are asking for, but it's as close as I can
find. It is updated testing on current carrying capabilities on PCB traces.
Check out the site:
http://www.ultracad.com/pcbtemp.pdf
Carl Van Wormer
Cipher Systems
1815 NW 169th Place, Suite 5010
Beaverton, OR 97006
Phone (503)-617-7447 Fax (503)-617-6550
-----Original Message-----
From: McGlaughlin, Jeffrey A [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 5:29 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Current carrying capacity of filled vias?
Does anyone have any data on the current carrying capacity of vias filled
with conductively filled vias. We have a need to carry ~2.5 amps per via and
by our calculations we are at about 1.7A with larges via design space
allows.
Thanks in advance.
Jeffrey A. McGlaughlin CID
Sr. Designer
Battelle Memorial Institute
Columbus Ohio
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:21:30 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mark Hargreaves <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: need info on FLGX material
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi All,
Customer is requesting a pcb on FLGX material. What type of substrate is
this? Is it referenced in IPC4101?
Many Thanks,
Mark Hargreaves
EMDS
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 08:34:48 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Glenn Woodhouse <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection
Greg,
The ERSA is a fine piece of equipment. When considering it you must take
into account the production environment it must survive. The prism used in
the tip is vulnerable to damage (i.e., collisions with components such as
caps and resistors around BGA's). Replacement is costly and requires
sending the tip assembly to ERSA for replacement. When we evaluated the
ERSA Scope a year ago, the repair process was to provide ERSA with a p.o.
(several hundred $'s), they would send out a loaner tip, you would send your
tip to ERSA where it would be repaired in Germany, weeks later you would
receive your tip back and either be partially credited or additionally
billed depending on the extent of the damage and difficulty of the repair,
and then you would send the loaner back to ERSA. This cumbersome and costly
process may have since changed but you would want to check into this.
There is another scope, the Cal-Tech "Hi-Roc" scope that is very similar in
cost and performance but utilizes easily replaceable (takes minutes with
your own people) plastic prisms. We did a side-to-side comparison and this
is what we ultimately bought. We could not discern any appreciable
difference in optical quality between the two although the Hi-Roc uses a
plastic prism and the ERSA uses a glass one. Because we were using the
scope in a volume production inspection process we couldn't live with the
replacement costs associated with the ERSA. Within the first couple of
months we replaced at least four prisms until the production shifts got
comfortable with the level of delicacy associated with this type of
equipment.
If you will be using your scope in more of a lab inspection environment with
control over who is using the scope and the training they have received,
this level of prism damage likely won't occur, but in my humble opinion it
is still a matter of "when" the prism gets damaged, not "if".
ERSA has a very nice software package available with their machine that
includes prepopulated component images that display acceptable and
rejectable conditions along with the live image of the part under
inspection, including potential root cause comments. You can add to and
customize this image/comment library for your own criteria and conditions.
Good Luck,
Glenn Woodhouse
MCMS
Advanced Technology Development
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:43 AM
> Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection
>
>
> > > TechNet Friends,
> > > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
> > > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It
> appears
> > > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options
> to
> > > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do
> add
> > > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> > > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated
> such
> > > tools.
> > > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> > > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are
> they
> > > as fully developed as the ERSA?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your help with this one,
> > >
> > >
> > > Greg Anderson
> > > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> > > GE Fanuc Automation
> > > Charlottesville, VA 22911
> > > Phone: 434-978-5181
> > > FAX: 434-978-5898
> > > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:53:03 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Adrian Irwin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Wavesoldering SMT
I am interested to hear from those who are soldering 0805 SMT bottom side
in low to medium volume environment. What ppm are you acheiving and how did
you get their ? If possible I would like to arrange site visits to do some
benchmarking.
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:08:13 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Carroll, George" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA Rework Equipment
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The Conceptronic Rework Station used here seems to work well. However, I've
never had anything else to compare it to. I've not had difficulties
profiling with it although to profile it accurately requires a scrap board
or one of similar design and implanting one or more thermocouples (you can
guess and get a usable, albeit, non optimized profile). A new unit comes
with four nozzles (you pick 'em). Nozzles should be plus/minus a millimeter
or so of the dimensions of the BGA or u-BGA being replaced. Additional
nozzles are generally $625 and up. Our unit is 7 years old and I'm sure the
new ones have more advanced software gizmos.
George Carroll
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Will Cabrera [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 4:42 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] BGA Rework Equipment
I work for a small OEM company and I am looking for BGA rework equipment
for in-house use. We sub out our low-volume PCA assembly and ICT. Any
recommendations on what BGA Rework equipment/supplier I can evaluate?
Will
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:51:25 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kris Keating <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: gold plating contamination
MIME-Version: 1.0
I have had some parts returned for a contamination/tarnishing on parts with
gold plating. I have attached a photo of the problem. These parts are sent
out for plating and we are having a difficult time identifying a root cause.
The problem seems to be different from a "black pad" problem. The parts
were plated approximately three months ago, and the tarnish is very evident.
I would appreciate some feedback.
Thank you,
<<contaminated gold plating.jpg>>
Kristopher J. Keating
Technical Service Engineer
Circuit-Wise, Inc.
400 Sackett Point Rd.
North Haven, CT 06473
Tel. (203) 281-6511
Fax (203) 287-8409
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:06:15 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Glenn Woodhouse <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction
Whoops. For anyone trying to search for the BGA inspection scope I posted
on, I completely botched the spelling of the company and product. The
company is "Caltex", and the scope is the "Hirox" at www.bgascope.com. You
can find the ERSA Scope at www.ersa.de.
Sorry for any inconvenience,
Glenn Woodhouse
MCMS
Advanced Technology Development
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glenn Woodhouse
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:35 AM
> To: 'TechNet'
> Subject: RE: BGA Visual Inspection
>
> Greg,
>
> The ERSA is a fine piece of equipment. When considering it you must take
> into account the production environment it must survive. The prism used
> in the tip is vulnerable to damage (i.e., collisions with components such
> as caps and resistors around BGA's). Replacement is costly and requires
> sending the tip assembly to ERSA for replacement. When we evaluated the
> ERSA Scope a year ago, the repair process was to provide ERSA with a p.o.
> (several hundred $'s), they would send out a loaner tip, you would send
> your tip to ERSA where it would be repaired in Germany, weeks later you
> would receive your tip back and either be partially credited or
> additionally billed depending on the extent of the damage and difficulty
> of the repair, and then you would send the loaner back to ERSA. This
> cumbersome and costly process may have since changed but you would want to
> check into this.
>
> There is another scope, the Cal-Tech "Hi-Roc" scope that is very similar
> in cost and performance but utilizes easily replaceable (takes minutes
> with your own people) plastic prisms. We did a side-to-side comparison
> and this is what we ultimately bought. We could not discern any
> appreciable difference in optical quality between the two although the
> Hi-Roc uses a plastic prism and the ERSA uses a glass one. Because we
> were using the scope in a volume production inspection process we couldn't
> live with the replacement costs associated with the ERSA. Within the
> first couple of months we replaced at least four prisms until the
> production shifts got comfortable with the level of delicacy associated
> with this type of equipment.
>
> If you will be using your scope in more of a lab inspection environment
> with control over who is using the scope and the training they have
> received, this level of prism damage likely won't occur, but in my humble
> opinion it is still a matter of "when" the prism gets damaged, not "if".
>
> ERSA has a very nice software package available with their machine that
> includes prepopulated component images that display acceptable and
> rejectable conditions along with the live image of the part under
> inspection, including potential root cause comments. You can add to and
> customize this image/comment library for your own criteria and conditions.
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Glenn Woodhouse
> MCMS
> Advanced Technology Development
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:43 AM
> Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection
>
>
> > > TechNet Friends,
> > > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
> > > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It
> appears
> > > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options
> to
> > > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do
> add
> > > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> > > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated
> such
> > > tools.
> > > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> > > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are
> they
> > > as fully developed as the ERSA?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your help with this one,
> > >
> > >
> > > Greg Anderson
> > > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> > > GE Fanuc Automation
> > > Charlottesville, VA 22911
> > > Phone: 434-978-5181
> > > FAX: 434-978-5898
> > > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 17:13:02 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Peter Swanson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Graham,
UV or light curing coatings:
- Solvent free
- Full cure in seconds, on-line
- Single part
- Non flammable
- Can meet MIL I-46058C and UL
- Good to excellent environmental resistance
- Can be "rigid" or "flexible" (Shore D80 to Shore D40)
- Can be used on flex
- Can have strong fluorescence for inspection, or even be black
They are not suitable for all applications - are better sprayed, not so good
for dipping. If sprayed (say, using PVA or Nordson type selective spray
equipment), then full cure can often be achieved just with light. Otherwise,
secondary cures for shadowed areas may be achieved with heat, anaerobic,
moisture or other mechanisms.
To answer Mike Fenner's question, most pcb coatings are acrylic based, which
is a free radical cure. Expose to the correct wavelength/intensity of light
for required time and full cure is achieved. In fact, if the light is taken
away, curing stops. All the coating must be exposed to the light.
There are some coatings (a few) based on epoxy chemistry and a cationic
cure. Some cross linking will continue after the light is removed, but only
for thin sections (i.e. it doesn't propagate far), and just like the free
radical cure, all the coating must be exposed to the light.
So, an interesting technology which certainly has its place in the panoply
of coatings available for circuit protection. Whilst not a universal
panacea, they can often offer processing speed and simplicity, including
perhaps some environmental and health & safety advantages.
IMHO, they should not be dismissed totally out of hand by competitors to the
technology in an open forum; for one thing, this might insult the many
companies who are successfully using them!
Regards,
Peter
--
=========================================================
Peter Swanson [log in to unmask]
INTERTRONICS http://www.intertronics.co.uk
INTERTRONICS is dedicated to providing quality material,
consumable and equipment solutions to the electronics
manufacturing and other technology based industries, with
the highest levels of technical support and customer
service.
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Naisbitt [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 09 December 2001 19:01
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Peter,
I am semi-comatose now, so please, tell us what exactly are the advantages
of UV curable coatings?
Regards, Graham Naisbitt
[log in to unmask]
www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of
http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
Concoat Limited
Alasan House, Albany Park
CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK
Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100
Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227
Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Peter Swanson
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 05:51
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Graham,
You really must see someone about your delusions over UV cured coatings,
which are successfully used to coat many thousands of pcb's each year. I
know someone who has a nice sofa you can stretch out on whilst you tell him
all about it.... <g>
Suitability for UV has nothing to do with 3D v. 2D, more to do with the
complexity of the assembly geometry and the application methodology. These
will determine if a secondary cure mechanism is needed for the application.
In many instances (and with some of our customers), full cure is achieved
just with light.
Regards,
Peter
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Peter Swanson [log in to unmask]
INTERTRONICS http://www.intertronics.co.uk
INTERTRONICS is dedicated to providing quality
material, consumable and equipment solutions to the
electronics manufacturing and other technology based
industries, with the highest levels of technical
support and customer service.
-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Naisbitt [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 06 December 2001 16:52
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Mike
You would be better to go with a conventional coating. UV is not ideal for
3D objects - works great in 2D, cos you don't have to bend light! :-)
I cannot remember what the operating environment was for your circuit - if
you would care to repeat, I can recommend something - however, I am sure
that a one part AR or UR coating from a reliable supplier will give you the
best overall results - process and operating environment.
Regards, Graham Naisbitt
[log in to unmask]
www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of
http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
Concoat Limited
Alasan House, Albany Park
CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK
Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100
Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227
Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mike Manwell
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 02:41
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
Hello,
Thanks in advance if you have taken the time to read this!
#1- Im trying different materials in a spray application. Both are cured
using UV. One material does a "secondary cure" w/ moisture. This is cool
because after 100 hours after UV cure, all material is fully cured.
The other material Im trying uses HEAT for a secondary cure, or, if
shodowed during UV cure, the material wont cure and never will. Obviously I
dont want the stuff dripping or running anywhere, but being new to this
wonderful process, just dont feel good about leaving uncured material on a
product for it's entire life. Iv been told that you can "test" the product
to see if the uncured material is causing a problem but Im not sure what
type of test that would consist of. Any insight?
#2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their UV
oven to limit shadowing?
Thanks so much,
Mike Manwell
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:10:55 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Rick Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Ventura Electronics Assembly
Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Glen,
I have to concur that the Caltex unit seems more suited for production.
We've looked at both and the demo Ersascope we had got 'nicked' in
normal use, making it not very usable. That plus the fact that the
flexibility of the plastic lens on the Caltex unit sometimes aids in
getting into tight spaces would make it my choice for production. In a
lab, either is probably good, but out on the floor you never know how
they're going to be handled.
Rick Thompson
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Glenn Woodhouse
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 7:35 AM
To: TechNe[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection
Greg,
The ERSA is a fine piece of equipment. When considering it you must
take into account the production environment it must survive. The prism
used in the tip is vulnerable to damage (i.e., collisions with
components such as caps and resistors around BGA's). Replacement is
costly and requires sending the tip assembly to ERSA for replacement.
When we evaluated the ERSA Scope a year ago, the repair process was to
provide ERSA with a p.o. (several hundred $'s), they would send out a
loaner tip, you would send your tip to ERSA where it would be repaired
in Germany, weeks later you would receive your tip back and either be
partially credited or additionally billed depending on the extent of the
damage and difficulty of the repair, and then you would send the loaner
back to ERSA. This cumbersome and costly process may have since changed
but you would want to check into this.
There is another scope, the Cal-Tech "Hi-Roc" scope that is very similar
in cost and performance but utilizes easily replaceable (takes minutes
with your own people) plastic prisms. We did a side-to-side comparison
and this is what we ultimately bought. We could not discern any
appreciable difference in optical quality between the two although the
Hi-Roc uses a plastic prism and the ERSA uses a glass one. Because we
were using the scope in a volume production inspection process we
couldn't live with the replacement costs associated with the ERSA.
Within the first couple of months we replaced at least four prisms until
the production shifts got comfortable with the level of delicacy
associated with this type of equipment.
If you will be using your scope in more of a lab inspection environment
with control over who is using the scope and the training they have
received, this level of prism damage likely won't occur, but in my
humble opinion it is still a matter of "when" the prism gets damaged,
not "if".
ERSA has a very nice software package available with their machine that
includes prepopulated component images that display acceptable and
rejectable conditions along with the live image of the part under
inspection, including potential root cause comments. You can add to and
customize this image/comment library for your own criteria and
conditions.
Good Luck,
Glenn Woodhouse
MCMS
Advanced Technology Development
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)"
> <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:43 AM
> Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection
>
>
> > > TechNet Friends,
> > > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement
> > > our X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE.
> > > It
> appears
> > > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the
> > > options
> to
> > > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact,
> > > do
> add
> > > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> > > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated
> such
> > > tools.
> > > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> > > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does?
> > > Are
> they
> > > as fully developed as the ERSA?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your help with this one,
> > >
> > >
> > > Greg Anderson
> > > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> > > GE Fanuc Automation
> > > Charlottesville, VA 22911
> > > Phone: 434-978-5181
> > > FAX: 434-978-5898
> > > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:23:44 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: MILLING ELASTOMER
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
OK... here's another unusual request.
I've been thrown a job that hasn't been built here for quite a number of
years. Everyone associated with this has since been gone, luckily, I found
some hand written documentation that describes most of the process. We need
to cast rubber isolators using a fluorosilicone rubber. This material is
purchased as a hunk of solid rubber, which needs to be roll milled (or Sigma
Mixer?) to incorporate the catalyst (Benzoyl Peroxide). I'm looking for
someone who can mill/mix the material for me (this is the only missing part
of the puzzle), preferably in the north east. What type of company would
perform this task? Any recommendations?
Thanks in advance,
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:32:26 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Hiteshew, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position
MIME-version: 1.0
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-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kauling [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Saturday, 8 December 2001 06:31
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position
In IPC 2221 section 9.2.2 describes hole location tolerance, it is expressed
as "diameter about true position". IPC T-50 defines "true position", not
diameter about true position.
My questions are:
1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true
position?
Think of the "True Position" as an ideal or perfect location with respect
to some datum (starting point). The tolerance on the location of that point
is a CIRCLE around that point (a diameter about the true position). Here's
where it gets a little complicated: that tolerance is usually expressed with
regard to "maximum material condition" (MMC). In the case of a hole being
drilled at that location, that means that tolerance will apply when the hole
is drilled at the smallest diameter (hence, the condition of having the
maximum material still left in place). As the hole is drilled to larger and
larger sizes, the difference between the MMC and the actual hole size may be
added to the positional tolerance.
Here's an example:
* A hole is defined as located 1.000" in the "B" and 1.000" in the "C" from
some datum, with the bottom surface of the PCB defined as datum "A". The
positional tolerance on the hole is 0.006" MMC, ABC.
* The hole is defined as having a diameter of 0.125" +/- 0.004", and is
unplated (unsupported, in IPC jargon).
* The MMC of the hole would be 0.121" (the condition when the maximum
material is left in place). Applying the positional tolerance, if the hole
is drilled at 0.121" diameter, then it's center (it's location) must fall
within a circle of 0.006" around the ideal location.
* If the hole is drilled at 0.125", the difference between MMC and the hole
diameter can be applied to the locational tolerance. Adding 0.004" to 0.006"
gives 0.010". Therefore, that 0.125" hole would only need to fall within
0.010" of it's true position. The reason? Because the hole now has more
clearance area, and so can be located farther from it's ideal location - by
exactly the amount that the clearance has been increased. The near edges of
both holes lie at the same point, no? The exception to this would be if
"regardless of feature size" (RFS) has been added to tolerance as a modifier
instead of MMC.
Here's something else to think about:
* Imagine defining the location of a hole with a bilateral tolerance of +/-
0.005", instead of a positional tolerance. What's been defined is square
zone that is 0.010" on each side. Now imagine drilling a hole at one corner
of that square; 0.005" up and 0.005" to the left. That hole is NOT 0.005"
from the center. It is 0.007" from the center. That's true for all four
corners. That means you need to allow for the hole to be up to 0.007"
radially from it's ideal location. Since you need to allow for it, why not
define it that way? That's the reason for a circular tolerance zone. That
circle provides the fabricator with 57% more area to place the hole.
2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify on your fab
prints
3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position that PWB
fabricators hold?
These are almost the same question. We call out 0.006" positional tolerance
at MMC. We also follow the guidelines in IPC-2222 for tolerances on hole
diameters (supported and unsupported). You'll find these in sections 9.2 &
9.3. Call me if you have more questions.
Good Luck!
Michael Hiteshew
Lockheed Martin NE&SS Marine Systems
410-682-1259
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:48:37 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: MILLING ELASTOMER
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_b2.327cb99.29466b95_boundary"
--part1_b2.327cb99.29466b95_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jim,
Here's a place that's worth a shot..go to:
http://www.reissmfg.com/engine.htm
They're in Blackstone, Virginia...not quite Northeast, but almost..
-Steve Gregory-
> OK... here's another unusual request.
>
> I've been thrown a job that hasn't been built here for quite a number of
> years. Everyone associated with this has since been gone, luckily, I found
> some hand written documentation that describes most of the process. We need
> to cast rubber isolators using a fluorosilicone rubber. This material is
> purchased as a hunk of solid rubber, which needs to be roll milled (or Sigma
> Mixer?) to incorporate the catalyst (Benzoyl Peroxide). I'm looking for
> someone who can mill/mix the material for me (this is the only missing part
> of the puzzle), preferably in the north east. What type of company would
> perform this task? Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Jim Marsico
> Senior Engineer
> Production Engineering
> EDO Electronics Systems Group
> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> 631-595-5879
>
--part1_b2.327cb99.29466b95_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Jim,
<BR>
<BR>Here's a place that's worth a shot..go to:
<BR>
<BR>http://www.reissmfg.com/engine.htm
<BR>
<BR>They're in Blackstone, Virginia...not quite Northeast, but almost..
<BR>
<BR>-Steve Gregory-
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">OK... here's another unusual request.
<BR>
<BR>I've been thrown a job that hasn't been built here for quite a number of
<BR>years. Everyone associated with this has since been gone, luckily, I found
<BR>some hand written documentation that describes most of the process. We need
<BR>to cast rubber isolators using a fluorosilicone rubber. This material is
<BR>purchased as a hunk of solid rubber, which needs to be roll milled (or Sigma
<BR>Mixer?) to incorporate the catalyst (Benzoyl Peroxide). I'm looking for
<BR>someone who can mill/mix the material for me (this is the only missing part
<BR>of the puzzle), preferably in the north east. What type of company would
<BR>perform this task? Any recommendations?
<BR>
<BR>Thanks in advance,
<BR>Jim Marsico
<BR>Senior Engineer
<BR>Production Engineering
<BR>EDO Electronics Systems Group
<BR>[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
<BR>631-595-5879
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR></FONT></HTML>
--part1_b2.327cb99.29466b95_boundary--
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:59:24 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: MILLING ELASTOMER
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
hi,
rubbercraft, in the brea, california area, may be interested in doing this for you.
phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Marsico, James [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 11:24 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] MILLING ELASTOMER
OK... here's another unusual request.
I've been thrown a job that hasn't been built here for quite a number of
years. Everyone associated with this has since been gone, luckily, I found
some hand written documentation that describes most of the process. We need
to cast rubber isolators using a fluorosilicone rubber. This material is
purchased as a hunk of solid rubber, which needs to be roll milled (or Sigma
Mixer?) to incorporate the catalyst (Benzoyl Peroxide). I'm looking for
someone who can mill/mix the material for me (this is the only missing part
of the puzzle), preferably in the north east. What type of company would
perform this task? Any recommendations?
Thanks in advance,
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:11:27 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: RF shielding
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Looking for ideas - preferably more along the lines of homemade basket idea
(ie. go to Home Depot for the supplies and build ourselves) than booking in
some special consultant to solve our needs.
We have test benches backing onto each other in several places on our
production floor. Several of our products are based on similar frequency
plans (mostly <2GHz) so sometimes tests being run on one bench will
interfere with tests being run on the bench backing onto it and will cause
false test failures.
I am looking for some sort of RF screen or something that we can mount and
ground between the benches to reduce what we call 'crosstalk'.
Thoughts?
Genny Gibbard (mailto:[log in to unmask])
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:32:32 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RF shielding
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Genny,
You could try copper window screen material (that's the stuff that
screens were made out of before Noah's great flood).
I seen this successfully used for a high voltage faraday cage and it is
also used on our EMC compliance test room.
Phil Nutting
-----Original Message-----
From: Genny Gibbard [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:11 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] RF shielding
Looking for ideas - preferably more along the lines of homemade basket
idea
(ie. go to Home Depot for the supplies and build ourselves) than booking
in
some special consultant to solve our needs.
We have test benches backing onto each other in several places on our
production floor. Several of our products are based on similar
frequency
plans (mostly <2GHz) so sometimes tests being run on one bench will
interfere with tests being run on the bench backing onto it and will
cause
false test failures.
I am looking for some sort of RF screen or something that we can mount
and
ground between the benches to reduce what we call 'crosstalk'.
Thoughts?
Genny Gibbard (mailto:[log in to unmask])
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:34:09 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Richard Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RF shielding
In-Reply-To: <A71205756C62D411B06900B0D03DC136B1BF38@CONNECTOR>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Genny,
In your posting you said: "Thoughts?"
Mine - Ouch! A few variables come to mind here and one of them is the power
of the transmitters. Layout of the test stations and building construction
are others. Unless you get a real RF shield between them which will absorb
ALL the interference from ANY angel (bouncing etc.) you are in for a big
deal, even if you go to Home Depot. Then there are listing/product agencies
that may have test criteria to deal with.
I have not dealt with this type of an issue as a ME but having been a Ham
Radio operator for more years than I care to think about you could be in
for fun. First off I would suggest you ask around and see if you have a Ham
Radio operator around that can give you some help. Not too many Hams are in
the GHZ operations but I can tell you that a frequency that high (as
opposed to Hz or Mhz) can be really tricky in its bouncing effects and the
more power the trickier it becomes.
My 2cents: Test one unit at a time, or, get a consultant. Yea, it is money
either way but if you don't have a good handle on what you are 'playing'
with, it will come around to bite you when you really don't want it to! (As
if you ever did!?)
Good luck on the project.
Richard
P.S. Change?
At 02:11 PM 12/10/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Looking for ideas - preferably more along the lines of homemade basket idea
>(ie. go to Home Depot for the supplies and build ourselves) than booking in
>some special consultant to solve our needs.
>We have test benches backing onto each other in several places on our
>production floor. Several of our products are based on similar frequency
>plans (mostly <2GHz) so sometimes tests being run on one bench will
>interfere with tests being run on the bench backing onto it and will cause
>false test failures.
>I am looking for some sort of RF screen or something that we can mount and
>ground between the benches to reduce what we call 'crosstalk'.
>Thoughts?
>
>Genny Gibbard (mailto:[log in to unmask])
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:35:36 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jon Metz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: FW: Cornell Duplier capacitor mounting pad dimensions
MIME-Version: 1.0
> <<CDE_CAPS.pdf>>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JMetz [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 9:41 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Cornell Duplier capacitor mounting pad dimensions
>
>
> Please review the attached PDF file as it contains the recommended pad
> layout for a "G" package electrolytic
> capacitor. I have the pads layed out on the PCB exactly as recommended
> by the part supplier and upon inspection
> (a lot of 12) 1 capacitor was twisted on the pads. Our QC manager and
> I both feel that it passes IPC class 2 assembly
> requirements. We have passed the assembly thru QC and it has been
> issued to the floor as is with no rework.
>
> My question is this: Having satisfied the requirement of class 2 we
> would like to know if it would be advisable to change
> the pad dimensions to avoid future twisting of the part on it's
> mounting pads? If so, what would be the new pad width
> (C) that you would recommend? From .079 to what?
>
> I would appreciate hearing from you at your earliest convenience.
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon Metz
> PCB Designer
> Mitec Wireless Inc.
> Phone: (732) 542-1133 Ext. 224
> Fax: (732) 542-1118
> All restrictions regarding distribution of Mitec Wireless Inc.
> proprietary information is applicable to this electronic message.
>
>
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:06:26 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Scott Westheimer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: gold plating contamination
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Kris,
I believe that you are talking about immersion gold however with both
immersion and electrolytic rinsing before and after can cause this problem.
How does the nickel look before gold plating. Also if you have a activator
and it is weak this to can contribute.
Scott B. Westheimer
General Manager
Gultech North Carolina, Inc.
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
Phone: (919)872-0100
Fax: (919)713-4849
Cell: (919)649-1510
Direct# (919)-713-4830
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kris Keating" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 11:51 AM
Subject: [TN] gold plating contamination
> I have had some parts returned for a contamination/tarnishing on parts
with
> gold plating. I have attached a photo of the problem. These parts are
sent
> out for plating and we are having a difficult time identifying a root
cause.
> The problem seems to be different from a "black pad" problem. The parts
> were plated approximately three months ago, and the tarnish is very
evident.
> I would appreciate some feedback.
> Thank you,
> <<contaminated gold plating.jpg>>
>
> Kristopher J. Keating
> Technical Service Engineer
> Circuit-Wise, Inc.
> 400 Sackett Point Rd.
> North Haven, CT 06473
> Tel. (203) 281-6511
> Fax (203) 287-8409
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:09:47 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Creswick, Steven" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RF shielding
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Genny,
How about just plain old brass/copper screen mesh, soldered to a framework
made from conventional sweat fitted 1/2" copper water piping. The framework
might be a simple 'wall', or it could be an enclosure or sorts.
Check out http://www.twpinc.com/brass.html for brass and copper screen
mesh. There are tons of screen mesh suppliers out there. Just search for
(screen mesh) or (screen fabric copper), etc.
Steve Creswick - Gentex
-----Original Message-----
From: Genny Gibbard [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 3:11 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] RF shielding
Looking for ideas - preferably more along the lines of homemade basket idea
(ie. go to Home Depot for the supplies and build ourselves) than booking in
some special consultant to solve our needs.
We have test benches backing onto each other in several places on our
production floor. Several of our products are based on similar frequency
plans (mostly <2GHz) so sometimes tests being run on one bench will
interfere with tests being run on the bench backing onto it and will cause
false test failures.
I am looking for some sort of RF screen or something that we can mount and
ground between the benches to reduce what we call 'crosstalk'.
Thoughts?
Genny Gibbard (mailto:[log in to unmask])
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:18:15 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RF shielding
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Genny,
To further the info from Phil, here's some info regarding the copper
screening material: http://www.twpinc.com/rfi.html
You can make a screen cage with 2x4's, mesh, lag bolts and washers. The
critical thing would be to ensure that the washer completely covers the hole
made in the screen for the lag bolt to pass through. One side note, the
cage doesn't need to be grounded, it should be isolated.
There are some commercially available products that may fit your needs, such
as a portable "tent" that is made of aluminum poles and EMI shielded
material. If I can find that information, I'll pass it along later....
Good Luck.
Steve Sauer
Mfg Engineer
Xetron Corporation
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
You could try copper window screen material....
I seen this successfully used for a high voltage faraday cage and it is also
used on our EMC compliance test room.
Phil Nutting
-----Original Message-----
From: Genny Gibbard [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Looking for ideas - preferably more along the lines of homemade basket
idea..... RF screen or something that we can mount and ground between the
benches to reduce what we call 'crosstalk'.
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:24:03 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RF shielding
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Here's the additional link, that I was referring to from an earlier post:
http://www.herzan.com/emi.htm
I don't know of the cost or delivery -- just remember seeing this product
while browsing for similar information. Again, good luck.
Steve Sauer
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:41:11 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RF shielding
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Pardon me, but I'm not sure I understand why the cage should be isolated
instead of grounded. Wouldn't 'grounding' the cage provide better
'isolation' from test station to test station, instead of just bouncing or
reflecting the signal, like I imagine an isolated cage would do?
Currently we avoid crosstalk by planning what test stations are placed
where, so that we don't put unshielded tests nearby critical spurious tests
on another product line, for example. But as we get crowded, waiting for
our new 'triple the size' production facility to be ready, we are running
out of room to space our test stations adequately. In our new building,
there will be no competing product line test benches backing on to each
other - they will just have to worry about the ones to either side...
Thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sauer, Steven T. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 10, 2001 3:18 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] RF shielding
Hi Genny,
To further the info from Phil, here's some info regarding the copper
screening material: http://www.twpinc.com/rfi.html
You can make a screen cage with 2x4's, mesh, lag bolts and washers. The
critical thing would be to ensure that the washer completely covers the hole
made in the screen for the lag bolt to pass through. One side note, the
cage doesn't need to be grounded, it should be isolated.
There are some commercially available products that may fit your needs, such
as a portable "tent" that is made of aluminum poles and EMI shielded
material. If I can find that information, I'll pass it along later....
Good Luck.
Steve Sauer
Mfg Engineer
Xetron Corporation
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
You could try copper window screen material....
I seen this successfully used for a high voltage faraday cage and it is also
used on our EMC compliance test room.
Phil Nutting
-----Original Message-----
From: Genny Gibbard [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Looking for ideas - preferably more along the lines of homemade basket
idea..... RF screen or something that we can mount and ground between the
benches to reduce what we call 'crosstalk'.
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:50:47 -0800
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Paul Gill <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Glenn Woodhouse,
How are thing in Nampa?
It's been a while.
I was searching through the Technet (I have about 2700 unread in a folder)
and I came across your name. This was from a post back in August.
A couple mouse clicks later and I notice that you posted today from
MCMS. Glad to hear that your still there.
Are things going well? Comparatively?
BTW the e-mail back in august had some great information about AOI.
Did MCMS purchase an AOI? Can you tell me which one? Are you happy with
the choice?
Thanks
Paul Gill
Sr. Process Development Engineer
Finisar Corporation
1 408 541 5626
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Glenn Woodhouse
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 9:06 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction
Whoops. For anyone trying to search for the BGA inspection scope I posted
on, I completely botched the spelling of the company and product. The
company is "Caltex", and the scope is the "Hirox" at www.bgascope.com. You
can find the ERSA Scope at www.ersa.de.
Sorry for any inconvenience,
Glenn Woodhouse
MCMS
Advanced Technology Development
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glenn Woodhouse
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:35 AM
> To: 'TechNet'
> Subject: RE: BGA Visual Inspection
>
> Greg,
>
> The ERSA is a fine piece of equipment. When considering it you must take
> into account the production environment it must survive. The prism used
> in the tip is vulnerable to damage (i.e., collisions with components such
> as caps and resistors around BGA's). Replacement is costly and requires
> sending the tip assembly to ERSA for replacement. When we evaluated the
> ERSA Scope a year ago, the repair process was to provide ERSA with a p.o.
> (several hundred $'s), they would send out a loaner tip, you would send
> your tip to ERSA where it would be repaired in Germany, weeks later you
> would receive your tip back and either be partially credited or
> additionally billed depending on the extent of the damage and difficulty
> of the repair, and then you would send the loaner back to ERSA. This
> cumbersome and costly process may have since changed but you would want to
> check into this.
>
> There is another scope, the Cal-Tech "Hi-Roc" scope that is very similar
> in cost and performance but utilizes easily replaceable (takes minutes
> with your own people) plastic prisms. We did a side-to-side comparison
> and this is what we ultimately bought. We could not discern any
> appreciable difference in optical quality between the two although the
> Hi-Roc uses a plastic prism and the ERSA uses a glass one. Because we
> were using the scope in a volume production inspection process we couldn't
> live with the replacement costs associated with the ERSA. Within the
> first couple of months we replaced at least four prisms until the
> production shifts got comfortable with the level of delicacy associated
> with this type of equipment.
>
> If you will be using your scope in more of a lab inspection environment
> with control over who is using the scope and the training they have
> received, this level of prism damage likely won't occur, but in my humble
> opinion it is still a matter of "when" the prism gets damaged, not "if".
>
> ERSA has a very nice software package available with their machine that
> includes prepopulated component images that display acceptable and
> rejectable conditions along with the live image of the part under
> inspection, including potential root cause comments. You can add to and
> customize this image/comment library for your own criteria and conditions.
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Glenn Woodhouse
> MCMS
> Advanced Technology Development
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:43 AM
> Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection
>
>
> > > TechNet Friends,
> > > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
> > > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It
> appears
> > > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options
> to
> > > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do
> add
> > > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> > > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated
> such
> > > tools.
> > > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> > > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are
> they
> > > as fully developed as the ERSA?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your help with this one,
> > >
> > >
> > > Greg Anderson
> > > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> > > GE Fanuc Automation
> > > Charlottesville, VA 22911
> > > Phone: 434-978-5181
> > > FAX: 434-978-5898
> > > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:58:38 -0800
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Paul Gill <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction (OOOPs)
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My last post was intended only for Glenn.
Some times the fingers are faster than the mind.
Paul Gill
Sr. Process Development Engineer
Finisar Corporation
1 408 541 5626
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Gill [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:51 PM
To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.
Subject: RE: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction
Glenn Woodhouse,
How are thing in Nampa?
It's been a while.
I was searching through the Technet (I have about 2700 unread in a folder)
and I came across your name. This was from a post back in August.
A couple mouse clicks later and I notice that you posted today from
MCMS. Glad to hear that your still there.
Are things going well? Comparatively?
BTW the e-mail back in august had some great information about AOI.
Did MCMS purchase an AOI? Can you tell me which one? Are you happy with
the choice?
Thanks
Paul Gill
Sr. Process Development Engineer
Finisar Corporation
1 408 541 5626
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Glenn Woodhouse
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 9:06 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction
Whoops. For anyone trying to search for the BGA inspection scope I posted
on, I completely botched the spelling of the company and product. The
company is "Caltex", and the scope is the "Hirox" at www.bgascope.com. You
can find the ERSA Scope at www.ersa.de.
Sorry for any inconvenience,
Glenn Woodhouse
MCMS
Advanced Technology Development
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Glenn Woodhouse
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:35 AM
> To: 'TechNet'
> Subject: RE: BGA Visual Inspection
>
> Greg,
>
> The ERSA is a fine piece of equipment. When considering it you must take
> into account the production environment it must survive. The prism used
> in the tip is vulnerable to damage (i.e., collisions with components such
> as caps and resistors around BGA's). Replacement is costly and requires
> sending the tip assembly to ERSA for replacement. When we evaluated the
> ERSA Scope a year ago, the repair process was to provide ERSA with a p.o.
> (several hundred $'s), they would send out a loaner tip, you would send
> your tip to ERSA where it would be repaired in Germany, weeks later you
> would receive your tip back and either be partially credited or
> additionally billed depending on the extent of the damage and difficulty
> of the repair, and then you would send the loaner back to ERSA. This
> cumbersome and costly process may have since changed but you would want to
> check into this.
>
> There is another scope, the Cal-Tech "Hi-Roc" scope that is very similar
> in cost and performance but utilizes easily replaceable (takes minutes
> with your own people) plastic prisms. We did a side-to-side comparison
> and this is what we ultimately bought. We could not discern any
> appreciable difference in optical quality between the two although the
> Hi-Roc uses a plastic prism and the ERSA uses a glass one. Because we
> were using the scope in a volume production inspection process we couldn't
> live with the replacement costs associated with the ERSA. Within the
> first couple of months we replaced at least four prisms until the
> production shifts got comfortable with the level of delicacy associated
> with this type of equipment.
>
> If you will be using your scope in more of a lab inspection environment
> with control over who is using the scope and the training they have
> received, this level of prism damage likely won't occur, but in my humble
> opinion it is still a matter of "when" the prism gets damaged, not "if".
>
> ERSA has a very nice software package available with their machine that
> includes prepopulated component images that display acceptable and
> rejectable conditions along with the live image of the part under
> inspection, including potential root cause comments. You can add to and
> customize this image/comment library for your own criteria and conditions.
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Glenn Woodhouse
> MCMS
> Advanced Technology Development
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:43 AM
> Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection
>
>
> > > TechNet Friends,
> > > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
> > > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It
> appears
> > > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options
> to
> > > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do
> add
> > > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> > > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated
> such
> > > tools.
> > > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> > > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are
> they
> > > as fully developed as the ERSA?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your help with this one,
> > >
> > >
> > > Greg Anderson
> > > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> > > GE Fanuc Automation
> > > Charlottesville, VA 22911
> > > Phone: 434-978-5181
> > > FAX: 434-978-5898
> > > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:17:54 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Conformal Coating Process
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Doug and Jim
In respect to the suggestions Doug makes, could you just be sure that you
are manufacturing assemblies that are broadly in-line with the "coupon
design" outlined in J-Std001/004/TM650 etc..
Latest research suggests that "older" designs might yield grossly misleading
reliability data (SIR results) - you really must test to conditions to which
your finished assembly shall be subjected.
"Cleaning" to a value of less than 2 megohm/cm also means that it is
acceptable to leave up to that amount of "salt" on every square cm of the
assembly, but fine-line; fine-pitch; COB, BGA etc., might well demand a far
lower value. I know of many that work to less than 0.2 megohm/cm for this
very reason.
Regards, Graham Naisbitt
[log in to unmask]
www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of
http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
Concoat Limited
Alasan House, Albany Park
CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK
Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100
Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227
Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 02:12
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coating Process
I'm trying to qualify a new cleaning process for electrical assemblies
prior
to conformal coating (Military boards). The old MIL Specs had as
cleanliness requirement of 2 meg-ohms minimum, is this all I need to do,
verify cleanliness to 2 meg-ohms? What about subjecting the assemblies to
10-day elevated temp/humidity (steady state)? Any recommendations?
*Jim, to your first question, Yes. When changing a cleaning operation, and
not changing fluxes, MIL-STD-2000A only required Appendix C testing, which
was the standard ROSE test. The 2 megohm-cm requirement translates to the
more familiar 10.06 micrograms sodium chloride equivalence per square inch,
whatever that becomes translated to the specific ionic cleanliness tester.
We all know what a crock that test is, but it still exists, especially in
military contracts.
Two questions you should be asking: What data does my customer need to
see? and I just trying to meet contractual requirements or REALLY show that
the change is not detrimental?
If the customer leaves it totally to you, then I suggest that you do both.
The ROSE test, bogus as it may be, is very easy to do and satisfies the
contractually focussed types. As to a longer temperature-humidity
exposure, that is a fairly good idea. What tests to you perform now to
tell you if product is good or bad? Do that same test but extend the test
time about 50% and run on hardware cleaned with the new method. At
Collins, our products go through -55 to 125C cycling to catch infant
mortality types of failures, er...ahhh... not that we EVER see such
failures, mind you....., and when we have a process change, we use the same
environmental screen.
Doug Pauls
Rockwell Collins
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:49:12 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Debbie Kenney <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Looking for flex design and build shop
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi Terri,
We have a lot of experience with this type of flex. Please check out our
website at www.mflex.com.
Debbie Kenney
Engineer
M-Flex / AMT
Direct (714) 688-5242
Fax (714) 996-3834
[log in to unmask]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Houston, Terri [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 5:20 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Looking for flex design and build shop
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm looking for a shop to design and build an oddly twisted, Y-shaped flex
> circuit with connectors at the 3 ends. It must be shielded (3 layer) and
> must withstand temperatures from -40 to 100C. Volumes are relatively low
> (a
> few thousand/year).
>
> If any of you have good experience with such a shop that does this for a
> living, please send me contact information off TechNet.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Terri
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:12:15 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
In-Reply-To: <D4CE3DAEA88ED311963F00508B76A4D4E53F79@NTFSEXCH2>
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Hello,
In general, what is the standard shelf life for the normal PTH and SMD
components like DIP IC's, SOIC's, PLCC's?
Assuming that they are non-MSD critical, what would be the proper
storage method to ensure good solderability is being preserved (such as
nitrogen storage chamber)?
How significant is the impact of storage conditions (e.g. humidity,
expose to ambient) and shelf life have on the solderability of component
leads?
Rgds,
Peter
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:04:59 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RF shielding
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Good Morning Genny,
In simple terms, if you ground the cage then it's no longer isolated. If
each test station is grounded then the test stations are electrically
connected and suspect to ground transients (talk about spurious output
problems). Think of safety first, if you're using an RF PA that arcs to the
grounded cage, what happens? Do you ground ESD bags?
Keep it simple, if you select the appropriate mesh, based on your frequency
and power, there won't be any bouncing or reflecting, just simple
absorption.
-----Original Message-----
From: Genny Gibbard [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 5:41 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] RF shielding
Pardon me, but I'm not sure I understand why the cage should be isolated
instead of grounded. Wouldn't 'grounding' the cage provide better
'isolation' from test station to test station, instead of just bouncing or
reflecting the signal, like I imagine an isolated cage would do?
Currently we avoid crosstalk by planning what test stations are placed
where, so that we don't put unshielded tests nearby critical spurious tests
on another product line, for example. But as we get crowded, waiting for
our new 'triple the size' production facility to be ready, we are running
out of room to space our test stations adequately. In our new building,
there will be no competing product line test benches backing on to each
other - they will just have to worry about the ones to either side...
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:07:14 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: GEE Laminate Material?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi All,
I've got an call-out for GEE material but I can't find it in MIL-S-13949.
Is there some other Mil spec I'm missing?
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:10:09 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Good morning Peter,
I'm sure Dave Hillman will provide the most accurate response (IMHO) =
but
until he comes around later in the day, I'll give my $.02.
The first thing is to determine if the components are solderable upon
receipt (reference J-STD-002) by performing a solderability test. If =
the
leads/terminations pass the solderability test and no additional
conditioning is performed, the components should be used within 120 =
days
(guidance information developed under MIL-STD-2000 and predecessors).
Longer storage can occur based on packaging, temperature, humidity and =
air
particulates (i.e. dust, sulphur dioxide, chloride, ammonia). Previous
guidance suggested that storage could be extended if storage conditions =
do
not exceed 25=B0C and 50% RH, and sealed containers/bags are used. One =
note
of caution is to ensure the storage containers/bags do not introduce
contaminates (silicones, sulphur, polysulphides, etc.,) to the =
components
that could degrade the solderability.
As you mentioned, nitrogen storage is a good option, as it will =
minimize
oxidation formation dependent on the purity and temp/humidity control, =
but
this option comes with a cost.
To summarize:
- impose a solderability (coating durability) requirement on
suppliers; component packaging requirements
- verify solderability upon receipt or obtain certificate of
compliance
- develop FIFO material control
- prepare for storage (repackage if necessary; original supplier
packaging is usually suitable)
- control environment
- periodically perform solderability tests to determine adequacy of
methods employed above.
Good Luck!
Steve Sauer
Mfg Engineer
Xetron Corporation
-----Original Message-----
In general, what is the standard shelf life for the normal PTH and SMD
components like DIP IC's, SOIC's, PLCC's?
Assuming that they are non-MSD critical, what would be the proper
storage method to ensure good solderability is being preserved (such as
nitrogen storage chamber)?
How significant is the impact of storage conditions (e.g. humidity,
expose to ambient) and shelf life have on the solderability of =
component
leads?
Rgds,
Peter
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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Technet NOMAIL
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E-mail Archives
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:33:14 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Keith Calhoun <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Sierra Research, an Integrated Defense Technologies company
Subject: Re: GEE Laminate Material?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hans,
Try MIL-I-24768/2. We use this for insulating spacers, etc.
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:12:54 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bernard Kessler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: GEE Laminate Material?
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Talk about senior moments----- GEE is the original G10 callout in the 18911
Spec ---- the unclad epoxy glass laminates. It moved into the early 13949
copper-clad spec as GE callout along with the GF (for FR4) and GH for G11.
Early in our laminate history, we certified to the unclad spec even though
the laminate had copper cladding --- there was no spec for copper.
Happy memories to all
Bernie Kessler
****************************************************************************
*
Bernard Kessler & Associates Ltd
Tel: 714-898-8422 Fax: 562-431-1741
www.home.earthlink.net/~bkesslerbka/
Service is our Profession
----- Original Message -----
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 6:07 AM
Subject: [TN] GEE Laminate Material?
> Hi All,
>
> I've got an call-out for GEE material but I can't find it in MIL-S-13949.
> Is there some other Mil spec I'm missing?
>
> Hans
>
> Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Hans M. Hinners
> Electronics Engineer
> Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
> 226 Cochran Street
> Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
>
> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>
> Com: (478) 926 - 5224
> Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
> DSN Prefix: 468
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:24:01 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: GEE Laminate Material?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Gee, Bernie, your memory is good. Guess us old timers can still earn our
living!
Best regards,
Brian
Bernard Kessler wrote:
>
> Talk about senior moments----- GEE is the original G10 callout in the 18911
> Spec ---- the unclad epoxy glass laminates. It moved into the early 13949
> copper-clad spec as GE callout along with the GF (for FR4) and GH for G11.
> Early in our laminate history, we certified to the unclad spec even though
> the laminate had copper cladding --- there was no spec for copper.
> Happy memories to all
> Bernie Kessler
>
> ****************************************************************************
> *
> Bernard Kessler & Associates Ltd
> Tel: 714-898-8422 Fax: 562-431-1741
> www.home.earthlink.net/~bkesslerbka/
> Service is our Profession
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 6:07 AM
> Subject: [TN] GEE Laminate Material?
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I've got an call-out for GEE material but I can't find it in MIL-S-13949.
> > Is there some other Mil spec I'm missing?
> >
> > Hans
> >
> > Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Hans M. Hinners
> > Electronics Engineer
> > Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
> > 226 Cochran Street
> > Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
> >
> > mailto:[log in to unmask]
> >
> > Com: (478) 926 - 5224
> > Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
> > DSN Prefix: 468
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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> E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:35:19 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Faraci, Jennifer L" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Sodium Silicate Contamination
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Does anybody have any information regarding Sodium Silicate particle
contamination? I'm looking for information regarding it's effect on
circuit cards, other equipment, and any possible health concerns it may
cause.
Thanks,
Jennifer
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:00:00 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
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Jennifer
What do you mean by sodium silicate? If we take this literally with the
formula Na0(n)SiO2, where n is usually between 3 and 6, you are in deep
trouble. This is a deliquescent, amorphous substance which will turn
into waterglass by absorption of atmospheric humidity. Apart from this,
it becomes a viscous liquid to which anything will stick.
Sodium disilicate, metasilicate and orthosilicate aren't quite as bad,
but are nearly so. They are all highly water-soluble and may be
hygroscopic, to some extent.
Brian
"Faraci, Jennifer L" wrote:
>
> Does anybody have any information regarding Sodium Silicate particle
> contamination? I'm looking for information regarding it's effect on
> circuit cards, other equipment, and any possible health concerns it may
> cause.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jennifer
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:12:46 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
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Jennifer:
Allow me to ask why you are interested, and where you have the potential for
contamination by Sodium Silicate.
Sodium Silicate is a very common ingredient in water based alkaline (read
this as high pH) detergents, and is commonly used as an anti-tarnish,
anti-corrosion agent in these detergents. Most machine dishwashing compounds
have sodium silicate in them.
It can cause problems if the pH of the cleaner gets too low, as it always
does in a rinse. It can also cause problems in high water hardness, where it
reacts with the water hardness, and falls out of solution as typically
Calcium Silicate.
And even if you have enough water softener in the detergent to overcome the
hardness in the cleaner itself, in the rinse you can still generate Calcium
Silicate.
My recommendation is to avoid Sodium Silicate in general, unless you have a
well formulated product with enough water softeners, and a good,
non-recirculating rinse.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:18:04 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Jennifer,
It all depends... our favourite answer.
There are hundreds of sodium silicates but lets keep it to the families that
are the most likely - short chain, long chain and zeolites (which are sodium
aluminosilicates). The first are soluble and the last will exchange sodium
ions for higher charged ions. This would be bad news. If we are talking
about drying packets (silica gel) then my concern would be were they
properly washed to remove all soluble silicates before the particles were
dried to be activated to absorb moisture.
regards,
Bev Christian
Research in Motion
-----Original Message-----
From: Faraci, Jennifer L [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 11, 2001 11:35 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Sodium Silicate Contamination
Does anybody have any information regarding Sodium Silicate particle
contamination? I'm looking for information regarding it's effect on
circuit cards, other equipment, and any possible health concerns it may
cause.
Thanks,
Jennifer
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:26:40 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_F2AFD5F1.CCADCBB1"
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=_F2AFD5F1.CCADCBB1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In addition to the good solderability info from Steve in this msg thread, =
moisture sensitivity needs to be considered. J-STD-020 is used by =
component manufacturers to classify the moisture sensitivity level of =
components (how easily they will "popcorn" in reflow). J-STD-033 is a =
companion standard for packaging and labeling the components for storage =
and includes some time requirements and bakeout guidelines. You can see =
table of contents and scope/purpose info by downloading from http://www.ipc=
.org/TOC/J-STD-033.pdf
Remember that bakeout can affect solderability.=20
Jack
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
APEX - the industry's premier trade show in Electronics
Manufacturing, January 22-24, 2002, San Diego, California.
More information on website www.goapex.org
--------
Jack Crawford, IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology
2215 Sanders Road, Northbrook IL 60062-6135
[log in to unmask]
847-790-5393
fax 847-504-2393
>>> [log in to unmask] 12/11/01 08:10AM >>>
Good morning Peter,
I'm sure Dave Hillman will provide the most accurate response (IMHO) but
until he comes around later in the day, I'll give my $.02.
The first thing is to determine if the components are solderable upon
receipt (reference J-STD-002) by performing a solderability test. If the
leads/terminations pass the solderability test and no additional
conditioning is performed, the components should be used within 120 days
(guidance information developed under MIL-STD-2000 and predecessors).
Longer storage can occur based on packaging, temperature, humidity and air
particulates (i.e. dust, sulphur dioxide, chloride, ammonia). Previous
guidance suggested that storage could be extended if storage conditions do
not exceed 25=B0C and 50% RH, and sealed containers/bags are used. One =
note
of caution is to ensure the storage containers/bags do not introduce
contaminates (silicones, sulphur, polysulphides, etc.,) to the components
that could degrade the solderability.
As you mentioned, nitrogen storage is a good option, as it will minimize
oxidation formation dependent on the purity and temp/humidity control, but
this option comes with a cost.
To summarize:
- impose a solderability (coating durability) requirement on
suppliers; component packaging requirements
- verify solderability upon receipt or obtain certificate of
compliance
- develop FIFO material control
- prepare for storage (repackage if necessary; original supplier
packaging is usually suitable)
- control environment
- periodically perform solderability tests to determine adequacy =
of
methods employed above.
Good Luck!
Steve Sauer
Mfg Engineer
Xetron Corporation
-----Original Message-----
In general, what is the standard shelf life for the normal PTH and SMD
components like DIP IC's, SOIC's, PLCC's?
Assuming that they are non-MSD critical, what would be the proper
storage method to ensure good solderability is being preserved (such as
nitrogen storage chamber)?
How significant is the impact of storage conditions (e.g. humidity,
expose to ambient) and shelf life have on the solderability of component
leads?
Rgds,
Peter
--=_F2AFD5F1.CCADCBB1
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Description: HTML
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>In addition to the good solderability info from =
Steve=20
in this msg thread, moisture sensitivity needs to be considered. =
J-STD-020=20
is used by component manufacturers to classify the moisture sensitivity =
level of=20
components (how easily they will "popcorn" in reflow). J-STD-033 is a =
companion=20
standard for packaging and labeling the components for storage and =
includes some=20
time requirements and bakeout guidelines. You can see table of contents =
and=20
scope/purpose info by downloading from <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/TOC/J-STD-033.pdf">http://www.ipc.org/TOC/J-STD-=
033.pdf</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Remember that bakeout can affect solderability. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jack</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>APEX - the =
industry's premier=20
trade show in Electronics<BR>Manufacturing, January 22-24, 2002, San =
Diego,=20
California.<BR>More information on website <A=20
href=3D"http://www.goapex.org">www.goapex.org</A><BR>--------<BR>Jack =
Crawford,=20
IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology<BR>2215 Sanders Road,=20
Northbrook IL 60062-6135<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> <BR>847-790-5393<BR>fax=
=20
847-504-2393<BR><BR>>>> [log in to unmask] 12/11/01 08:10AM=20
>>><BR>Good morning Peter,<BR>I'm sure Dave Hillman will provide =
the=20
most accurate response (IMHO) but<BR>until he comes around later in the =
day,=20
I'll give my $.02.<BR>The first thing is to determine if the components =
are=20
solderable upon<BR>receipt (reference J-STD-002) by performing a solderabil=
ity=20
test. If the<BR>leads/terminations pass the solderability test and =
no=20
additional<BR>conditioning is performed, the components should be used =
within=20
120 days<BR>(guidance information developed under MIL-STD-2000 and=20
predecessors).<BR>Longer storage can occur based on packaging, temperature,=
=20
humidity and air<BR>particulates (i.e. dust, sulphur dioxide, chloride,=20
ammonia). Previous<BR>guidance suggested that storage could be =
extended if=20
storage conditions do<BR>not exceed 25=B0C and 50% RH, and sealed =
containers/bags=20
are used. One note<BR>of caution is to ensure the storage containers/=
bags=20
do not introduce<BR>contaminates (silicones, sulphur, polysulphides, =
etc.,) to=20
the components<BR>that could degrade the solderability.<BR>As you =
mentioned,=20
nitrogen storage is a good option, as it will minimize<BR>oxidation =
formation=20
dependent on the purity and temp/humidity control, but<BR>this option =
comes with=20
a cost.<BR>To summarize:<BR> - =
impose=20
a solderability (coating durability) requirement on<BR>suppliers; =
component=20
packaging requirements<BR> - =
verify=20
solderability upon receipt or obtain certificate=20
of<BR>compliance<BR> - develop =
FIFO=20
material control<BR> - prepare =
for=20
storage (repackage if necessary; original supplier<BR>packaging is =
usually=20
suitable)<BR> - control=20
environment<BR> - periodically =
perform=20
solderability tests to determine adequacy of<BR>methods employed=20
above.<BR><BR>Good Luck!<BR><BR>Steve Sauer<BR>Mfg Engineer<BR>Xetron=20
Corporation<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>In general, what is =
the=20
standard shelf life for the normal PTH and SMD<BR>components like DIP =
IC's,=20
SOIC's, PLCC's?<BR><BR>Assuming that they are non-MSD critical, what would =
be=20
the proper<BR>storage method to ensure good solderability is being =
preserved=20
(such as<BR>nitrogen storage chamber)?<BR><BR>How significant is the =
impact of=20
storage conditions (e.g. humidity,<BR>expose to ambient) and shelf life =
have on=20
the solderability of=20
component<BR>leads?<BR><BR><BR>Rgds,<BR>Peter</DIV></BODY></HTML>
--=_F2AFD5F1.CCADCBB1--
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:35:57 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Faraci, Jennifer L" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
We've found sodium silicate particles on equipment due to over application
of floor sealant. I'm looking for information regarding if it will effect
our equipment performance either electrically or mechanically, or the health
of employees who use it. If a complete cleaning is necessary, what would be
the best way to remove the sodium sulfate contamination without damaging our
equipment?
Jennifer
-----Original Message-----
From: <Rudy Sedlak> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 10:13 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Sodium Silicate Contamination
Jennifer:
Allow me to ask why you are interested, and where you have the potential for
contamination by Sodium Silicate.
Sodium Silicate is a very common ingredient in water based alkaline (read
this as high pH) detergents, and is commonly used as an anti-tarnish,
anti-corrosion agent in these detergents. Most machine dishwashing
compounds
have sodium silicate in them.
It can cause problems if the pH of the cleaner gets too low, as it always
does in a rinse. It can also cause problems in high water hardness, where
it
reacts with the water hardness, and falls out of solution as typically
Calcium Silicate.
And even if you have enough water softener in the detergent to overcome the
hardness in the cleaner itself, in the rinse you can still generate Calcium
Silicate.
My recommendation is to avoid Sodium Silicate in general, unless you have a
well formulated product with enough water softeners, and a good,
non-recirculating rinse.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:46:57 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: GEE Laminate Material?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bernie,
You are the man!
I was guessing it had to be G-10 from the look of the stuff but I still need
to document it.
Now onto the IHS website to look the bloody thing up.
Thanks!
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
-----Original Message-----
From: Bernard Kessler [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:13 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] GEE Laminate Material?
Talk about senior moments----- GEE is the original G10 callout in the 18911
Spec ---- the unclad epoxy glass laminates. It moved into the early 13949
copper-clad spec as GE callout along with the GF (for FR4) and GH for G11.
Early in our laminate history, we certified to the unclad spec even though
the laminate had copper cladding --- there was no spec for copper.
Happy memories to all
Bernie Kessler
****************************************************************************
*
Bernard Kessler & Associates Ltd
Tel: 714-898-8422 Fax: 562-431-1741
www.home.earthlink.net/~bkesslerbka/
Service is our Profession
----- Original Message -----
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 6:07 AM
Subject: [TN] GEE Laminate Material?
> Hi All,
>
> I've got an call-out for GEE material but I can't find it in MIL-S-13949.
> Is there some other Mil spec I'm missing?
>
> Hans
>
> Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Hans M. Hinners
> Electronics Engineer
> Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
> 226 Cochran Street
> Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
>
> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>
> Com: (478) 926 - 5224
> Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
> DSN Prefix: 468
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:06:46 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Rick Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Ventura Electronics Assembly
Subject: Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
We're looking at possibly installing a new line and I'm hoping some of
you might care to share your opinions, recommendations, pro or con on
Panasonic, Siemens, Fuji from current users. If you have any insight
you wouldn't mind sharing, please contact me offline.
Thanks in advance.
Rick Thompson
Ventura Electronics Assembly
2655 Park Center Dr.
Simi Valley, CA 93065
+1 (805) 584-9858 x-304 voice
+1 (805) 584-1529 fax
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:43:03 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello all,
Problem description:
Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.
Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball
height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)
5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure
modules came from opening soder join or no solder join
at all. As we inspect the screen printing process (we
use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning
rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we
found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has very
little solder or no solder at all.
Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape aperture,
13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.
We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then
we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce the
stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or
resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or
many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,
short-life, etc)
What would be your solution?
Thanks,
Stacy
__________________________________________________
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Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:46:05 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <001201c1826e$98fb1610$3d00a8c0@rick>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Rick,
Please specify your application. The pro/con of those
machine depend on your application, expectation
(volume, quantily, maintenance, service, ...).
Clarify your need, then we will be able to share
ideas.
Stacy
--- Rick Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> We're looking at possibly installing a new line and
> I'm hoping some of
> you might care to share your opinions,
> recommendations, pro or con on
> Panasonic, Siemens, Fuji from current users. If you
> have any insight
> you wouldn't mind sharing, please contact me
> offline.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> Rick Thompson
> Ventura Electronics Assembly
> 2655 Park Center Dr.
> Simi Valley, CA 93065
>
> +1 (805) 584-9858 x-304 voice
> +1 (805) 584-1529 fax
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
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> Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives
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> [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:04:31 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
we have a .75 mm pitch device with same issue, try pad size at .014" and square
appature .014" . also experiment with differant paste types 3 or 4
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:18:48 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: GEE Laminate Material?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Opps,
I tried looking up Bernard's 18911 spec but no go.
Turns out Keith's' had the right spec and I'm all set.
Hans
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Calhoun [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:33 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] GEE Laminate Material?
Hans,
Try MIL-I-24768/2. We use this for insulating spacers, etc.
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:21:24 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Yu-Hung Shiau <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
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--=====================_942141297==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Morning guys,
Customer bought our product for testing propose and would like to get a
number about the normal allowed insertion times on the gold plating edge
connectors. Is there anybody can give me an idea about how many insertion
times for a hard-gold-plated edge connector could take before it
malfunctions? We have 30 micron" gold through electroplating process over
100 micron" Nickle on all edge connectors in our products.
If possible, could somebody direct me to someplace where I could find
relevant articles for my own study purpose. Many many thanks!!
YH Shiau
--=====================_942141297==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<html>
Morning guys,<br>
Customer bought our product for testing propose and would like to get a
number about the <b>normal allowed insertion times</b> on the gold
plating edge connectors. Is there anybody can give me an idea about how
many insertion times for a hard-gold-plated edge connector could take
before it malfunctions? We have 30 micron" gold through
electroplating process over 100 micron" Nickle on all edge
connectors in our products.<br><br>
If possible, could somebody direct me to someplace where I could find
relevant articles for my own study purpose. Many many thanks!!<br>
YH Shiau<br><br>
</html>
--=====================_942141297==_.ALT--
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:30:12 -0400
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jeff Slipp <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: unsubscribe TechNet Jeff Slipp
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:48:17 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I got the following info from the SMTNet site a few months ago.
Thanks to Dave F, who also posts to Technet.
I believe in your dimensions you mean micro-inches, not microns.
So, according to Norm's experiment, looks like you could have 50-75
insertions.
"...an experiment done by Norm Einarson. [Mr. Einarson is a very
famous board design guru. His book "Bare Board PBW Design Manual" published
by Printed Circuit Technology ph.617-272-0938 is a very good approach to
board design for manufacture. You may be able to buy it from SMTA
<http://www.smta.org> also.]
The experiment was to determine insertions from a gold plated board
into a connector. Same thickness boards (0.062"), with 100 m base nickel. *
100m gold => 500 insertions * 50 m gold => 300 insertions * 30 m gold => 50
to 75 insertions * 20 m gold => 10 insertions. "
-----Original Message-----
From: Yu-Hung Shiau [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 11, 2001 1:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
Morning guys,
Customer bought our product for testing propose and would like to get a
number about the normal allowed insertion times on the gold plating edge
connectors. Is there anybody can give me an idea about how many insertion
times for a hard-gold-plated edge connector could take before it
malfunctions? We have 30 micron" gold through electroplating process over
100 micron" Nickle on all edge connectors in our products.
If possible, could somebody direct me to someplace where I could find
relevant articles for my own study purpose. Many many thanks!!
YH Shiau
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1827C.C730BC20
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.3315.2870" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>
<DIR>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=122293619-11122001>I got
the following info from the SMTNet site a few months ago. Thanks to Dave
F, who also posts to Technet. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=122293619-11122001>I
believe in your dimensions you mean micro-inches, not microns. So,
according to Norm's experiment, looks like you could have 50-75
insertions.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><SPAN class=122293619-11122001>"...</SPAN>an experiment done by Norm
Einarson. [Mr. Einarson is a very famous board design guru. His book "Bare Board
PBW Design Manual" published by Printed Circuit Technology ph.617-272-0938 is a
very good approach to board design for manufacture. You may be able to buy it
from SMTA <U><FONT color=#0000ff><http://www.smta.org></U></FONT> also.]
</P>
<P>The experiment was to determine insertions from a gold plated board into a
connector. Same thickness boards (0.062"), with 100 m base nickel. • 100m gold
=> 500 insertions • 50 m gold => 300 insertions • 30 m gold => 50 to 75
insertions • 20 m gold => 10 insertions. <SPAN
class=122293619-11122001>"</SPAN></P></DIR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Yu-Hung Shiau
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> December 11, 2001 1:21
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Electroplated Edge
connector insertion limit<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>Morning guys,<BR>Customer bought
our product for testing propose and would like to get a number about the
<B>normal allowed insertion times</B> on the gold plating edge connectors. Is
there anybody can give me an idea about how many insertion times for a
hard-gold-plated edge connector could take before it malfunctions? We have 30
micron" gold through electroplating process over 100 micron" Nickle on all
edge connectors in our products.<BR><BR>If possible, could somebody direct me
to someplace where I could find relevant articles for my own study purpose.
Many many thanks!!<BR>YH Shiau<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1827C.C730BC20--
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:20:33 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Jennifer:
You probably did not discover Sodium Silcate...which, in small particles and
quantities is rapidly neutralized by the Carbon Dioxide in air to a form of
Hydrated Silicon Dioxide.....which is actually known as "Silicic Acid", but
is about as acidic as Carbon Dioxide in air..
The truth is that the stuff in small quantities is essentially harmless to
human beings. I would ignore it.
If you want to clean it up, probably the only reasonable way is to use a
simple mild detergent solution. If you want to remove every last atom of
Silicon Dioxide you would have to use some VERY hazardous chemicals.
My advice: Have a nice holiday...if people want to feel like they have "done
something to cure the problem"...wash the floor.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:53:28 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Alan de Schweinitz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
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------=_NextPart_000_011C_01C18242.D4524B60--
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:08:12 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Peter! Steve Sauer did a great job of covering the most important basics
so I'll just add few other details. Based on many of the discussions which
occur within the JSTD-002A committee, you should expect that your component
shelf life should be a minimum of 6 months and very typically 12 months
from date of fabrication. You can expect that components with
Sn63/Sn62/Sn60 finishes retain their solderability better than Sn85 or
Sn100 finish. There is also one general rule - the thicker a finish the
better it retains its solderability. A 20 microinch thick Sn63 finish on a
DIP component is going to "age" less gracefully than a 60 microinch thick
Sn63 finish on the same component. Humidity has the greatest impact on the
loss of solderability so if you can control the humidity in your component
storage area then you will be better off (most people have typical controls
of 30%-60% RH). Lastly, always relate your solderability expectations with
the type of flux chemistry you are using in assembly. Typically, the
JSTD-004 type M or H fluxes are more robust to solderability variations
than the type L fluxes. The JSTD-002A specification, in conjunction with a
good logistics plan (as Steve recommended), can serve as a good tool for
solderability management. Good Luck.
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/11/2001 02:12:15 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: [TN] Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
Hello,
In general, what is the standard shelf life for the normal PTH and SMD
components like DIP IC's, SOIC's, PLCC's?
Assuming that they are non-MSD critical, what would be the proper
storage method to ensure good solderability is being preserved (such as
nitrogen storage chamber)?
How significant is the impact of storage conditions (e.g. humidity,
expose to ambient) and shelf life have on the solderability of component
leads?
Rgds,
Peter
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:25:02 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: RF shielding
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Try here:
http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=SCRM
1
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Genny Gibbard" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 12:11 PM
Subject: [TN] RF shielding
> Looking for ideas - preferably more along the lines of homemade basket
idea
> (ie. go to Home Depot for the supplies and build ourselves) than booking
in
> some special consultant to solve our needs.
> We have test benches backing onto each other in several places on our
> production floor. Several of our products are based on similar frequency
> plans (mostly <2GHz) so sometimes tests being run on one bench will
> interfere with tests being run on the bench backing onto it and will cause
> false test failures.
> I am looking for some sort of RF screen or something that we can mount and
> ground between the benches to reduce what we call 'crosstalk'.
> Thoughts?
>
> Genny Gibbard (mailto:[log in to unmask])
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:03:34 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Yu-Hung Shiau <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Where did 30m" for Tab plating co
Dear Norm,
I saw the article you posted on the IPC TechNet forum and I'm very
interested with it. Is that possible you could share more details of your
experiment with me? I have a customer who asked me to give them a number of
how many times of insertion the 30 micro inch electroplated edge connector
could take before any problem being raised?
When you say 50~75 insertions, what exactly does that mean? Does it mean
the gold plating will be gone and Nickle be exposed? Or it would
malfunction? Or it's for high reliability maintained?!!
Your opinion and information is highly appreciated. Many thanks!!
YH Shiau
ps: Do you know similar experiments being performed by others??
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:41:16 +0530
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Rick,
THe selection of SMT machines is totally application dependent! Hence I
would suggest you specify that first. Like whether you'll be into low
volume-high mix assembly, or high volume-low mix, or low volume low mix,
...... and what components you need to be placed (0201 required?, BGAs,
micro BGAs, CSPs......) minimum pitch, odd shaped, etc..., your estimate of
the line speed in cph.
I think once you have this data, many technetters will be able to give you
some idea!
Good luck
Vinit
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Thompson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:37 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?
We're looking at possibly installing a new line and I'm hoping some of
you might care to share your opinions, recommendations, pro or con on
Panasonic, Siemens, Fuji from current users. If you have any insight
you wouldn't mind sharing, please contact me offline.
Thanks in advance.
Rick Thompson
Ventura Electronics Assembly
2655 Park Center Dr.
Simi Valley, CA 93065
+1 (805) 584-9858 x-304 voice
+1 (805) 584-1529 fax
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:16:07 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Interesting trend lately...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Just thought I'd pass on something that I've just learned about. We've been
looking at purchasing some used, or more politically correct I suppose,
"pre-owned" pick and place equipment.
Have found out that there are OEM's of these machines out there, that are
buying as many of the used machines that are out in the open market as they
can, to prevent them from being sold to the general market (like us guys)
that want to buy them...just found that rather interesting...
They don't want their used machines being sold and traded, and are trying to
make sure that anybody that wants their equipment has to buy "New" from them
by taking as many of the used machines off the market as they can...I guess
that is one marketing strategy...don't really understand it, but I guess
that's why I'm not a sales guy...
Have any of you heard about this?
-Steve Gregory-
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:32:20 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Stephen:
This is a strategy that implies that the machines are breaking down more
frequently and that not enough spare parts are available.
Therefore, maintain an inventory of used parts and sell them at a
premium during this down-turn.
Similar to a car, the replacement cost of a single part is worth much
more than selling the total car itself.
In addition, these machines are not sold from inventory so the next best
thing is the repair market.
Just an opinion.
Charlie McMahon
Stephen R. Gregory wrote:
>Just thought I'd pass on something that I've just learned about. We've been
>looking at purchasing some used, or more politically correct I suppose,
>"pre-owned" pick and place equipment.
>
>Have found out that there are OEM's of these machines out there, that are
>buying as many of the used machines that are out in the open market as they
>can, to prevent them from being sold to the general market (like us guys)
>that want to buy them...just found that rather interesting...
>
>They don't want their used machines being sold and traded, and are trying to
>make sure that anybody that wants their equipment has to buy "New" from them
>by taking as many of the used machines off the market as they can...I guess
>that is one marketing strategy...don't really understand it, but I guess
>that's why I'm not a sales guy...
>
>Have any of you heard about this?
>
>-Steve Gregory-
>
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>
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:59:41 +1300
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Chris Murphy <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Tait Electronics Ltd
Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi Steve,
dont forget that for some of these suppliers part of their business is
to refurbish used machines and then offer them as a cheaper alternative
for companies that cant afford to buy new.
If suppliers are buying all of the old machines to force people to buy
new, then they would have to make enough profit on the new machine to
offset the costs of buying the old ones, which might be pretty difficult
to do in today's competitive environment. Mind you, if they got the old
equipment cheaply enough, then maybe it's worth it.
Two other theories are 1) More people want to buy second hand due to
cash constraints so the OEMs want to get more into this market, or 2)
The OEMs are trying to temporarily take these machines off the market so
that they get some work for their factories and dont have to shut them
down. If they believe the financial anaylsts then the US economy will
bounce back next year, and they can release the old equipment then.
Regards,
Chris Murphy
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:11:48 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Richard Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Chris,
Or, Theory 1 + Theory 2! That has my vote.
Richard
At 04:59 PM 12/12/01 +1300, you wrote:
>Hi Steve,
>
>dont forget that for some of these suppliers part of their business is
>to refurbish used machines and then offer them as a cheaper alternative
>for companies that cant afford to buy new.
>
>If suppliers are buying all of the old machines to force people to buy
>new, then they would have to make enough profit on the new machine to
>offset the costs of buying the old ones, which might be pretty difficult
>to do in today's competitive environment. Mind you, if they got the old
>equipment cheaply enough, then maybe it's worth it.
>
>Two other theories are 1) More people want to buy second hand due to
>cash constraints so the OEMs want to get more into this market, or 2)
>The OEMs are trying to temporarily take these machines off the market so
>that they get some work for their factories and dont have to shut them
>down. If they believe the financial anaylsts then the US economy will
>bounce back next year, and they can release the old equipment then.
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Chris Murphy
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:27:03 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Generated by NET-TEL Mailguard SMTP version 4.0.0.22)
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Hi Stacy,
First thing that comes to my mind is the type of solderpaste. Not only the =
size of the solder particles is important, but you also need a modern flux =
chemistry that assures easy release of the paste from the stencil =
apertures. I'm quite happy with Alpha UP78T.
Daan Terstegge
SMT Centre
Thales Communications
Unclassified mail
Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net
>>> My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]> 12/11 7:43 pm >>>
Hello all,
Problem description:
Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.
Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball
height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)
5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure
modules came from opening soder join or no solder join
at all. As we inspect the screen printing process (we
use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning
rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we
found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has very
little solder or no solder at all.
Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape aperture,
13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.
We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then
we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce the
stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or
resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or
many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,
short-life, etc)
What would be your solution?
Thanks,
Stacy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com=20
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com=20
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:36:47 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jon Moore <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...
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I know that Quad (now Tyco) has always done something like this, also
involving trade-in of used equipment for newer, larger or faster models.
They have always had a policy of doing a complete refurb on this equipment
and then reselling it. They didn't do it to keep it off of the market, but
to give the buyer who is trying to save some money another option, and yet
still include a warranty, etc.
I don't know how other OEM's are handling their used stuff.
Jon Moore
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 06:52:59 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: pratap singh <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: RAMP Inc.
Subject: Re: Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="Boundary_(ID_CgZKf5dYUhEibPcLAPBVkg)"
--Boundary_(ID_CgZKf5dYUhEibPcLAPBVkg)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Mr. Shiau,
With 30 micro inch hard gold over 100 micro inch nickel, you should be
able to get 30 -100 insertions. Number of insertions are, however,
affected by the contact normal force which may vary significantly.
Other factors that also affect insertions are plating porosity,
plating adhesion, particulate contamination and contact geometry.
Yu-Hung Shiau wrote:
> Morning guys,
> Customer bought our product for testing propose and would like to
> get a number about the normal allowed insertion times on the gold
> plating edge connectors. Is there anybody can give me an idea about
> how many insertion times for a hard-gold-plated edge connector could
> take before it malfunctions? We have 30 micron" gold through
> electroplating process over 100 micron" Nickle on all edge
> connectors in our products.
>
> If possible, could somebody direct me to someplace where I could
> find relevant articles for my own study purpose. Many many thanks!!
> YH Shiau
>
--
_________________________
pratap singh
tel/fax: 512-255-6820
email: [log in to unmask]
WEB: www.rampinc.com
--Boundary_(ID_CgZKf5dYUhEibPcLAPBVkg)
Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Mr. Shiau,
<p>With 30 micro inch hard gold over 100 micro inch nickel, you should
be able to get 30 -100 insertions. Number of insertions are, however, affected
by the contact normal force which may vary significantly. Other factors
that also affect insertions are plating porosity, plating adhesion, particulate
contamination and contact geometry.
<p>Yu-Hung Shiau wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE> Morning guys,
<br>Customer bought our product for testing propose and would like to get
a number about the <b>normal allowed insertion times</b> on the gold plating
edge connectors. Is there anybody can give me an idea about how many insertion
times for a hard-gold-plated edge connector could take before it malfunctions?
We have 30 micron" gold through electroplating process over 100 micron"
Nickle on all edge connectors in our products.
<p>If possible, could somebody direct me to someplace where I could find
relevant articles for my own study purpose. Many many thanks!!
<br>YH Shiau
<br> </blockquote>
<p>--
<br>_________________________
<br>pratap singh
<br>tel/fax: 512-255-6820
<br>email: [log in to unmask]
<br>WEB: www.rampinc.com
<br> </html>
--Boundary_(ID_CgZKf5dYUhEibPcLAPBVkg)--
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:25:59 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: To form or not to Form
Hi all
I hope this gets some good advice.
I have a customer who is requiring the placement of an electrolitic cap
that has a lead spacing of 0.140" and the PCB has 0.100". They do not want
the leads formed, they want the part flat to the board. In doing this, am
I opening myself up to stress induced failures of the component.
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:35:41 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Wenger, George M." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dave,
You're "too kind" when you say a 20 microinch thick Sn63 finish on a Dip
component is going to "age" less gracefully than a 60 microinch thick
Sn63 finish. The way I see it a 20 microinch Sn63 finish is going to
"suck" by the time you get the part and try to use it.
Regards,
George
George M. Wenger (908)-546-4531 [log in to unmask]
Celiant Corporation
40 Technology Drive
Warren, New Jersey 07059
-----Original Message-----
From: David Hillman [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 4:08 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
Hi Peter! Steve Sauer did a great job of covering the most important
basics
so I'll just add few other details. Based on many of the discussions
which
occur within the JSTD-002A committee, you should expect that your
component
shelf life should be a minimum of 6 months and very typically 12 months
from date of fabrication. You can expect that components with
Sn63/Sn62/Sn60 finishes retain their solderability better than Sn85 or
Sn100 finish. There is also one general rule - the thicker a finish the
better it retains its solderability. A 20 microinch thick Sn63 finish on
a
DIP component is going to "age" less gracefully than a 60 microinch
thick
Sn63 finish on the same component. Humidity has the greatest impact on
the
loss of solderability so if you can control the humidity in your
component
storage area then you will be better off (most people have typical
controls
of 30%-60% RH). Lastly, always relate your solderability expectations
with
the type of flux chemistry you are using in assembly. Typically, the
JSTD-004 type M or H fluxes are more robust to solderability variations
than the type L fluxes. The JSTD-002A specification, in conjunction with
a
good logistics plan (as Steve recommended), can serve as a good tool for
solderability management. Good Luck.
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/11/2001 02:12:15 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: [TN] Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
Hello,
In general, what is the standard shelf life for the normal PTH and SMD
components like DIP IC's, SOIC's, PLCC's?
Assuming that they are non-MSD critical, what would be the proper
storage method to ensure good solderability is being preserved (such as
nitrogen storage chamber)?
How significant is the impact of storage conditions (e.g. humidity,
expose to ambient) and shelf life have on the solderability of component
leads?
Rgds,
Peter
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:40:48 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
X-To: [log in to unmask]
George,
I ran out of gas days ago attempting to enliven the group. I was thankful as
were many others.
The technical term "suck" got me excited all over again. Thought I was only
one capable of portraying the inability of something to function using such
verbage.
Not at all surprised this, but by you,
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:07:47 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Wenger, George M." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
X-To: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Earl,
During my 33 years with Lucent the two things I've been credited with
are saying "nothing solders like solder" and "Palladium sucks". When
you're doing solder assembly and get parts that won't solder and your
management says "make them solder" and your customers say "I want good
quality assembles NOW!" you tend to not beat arround the bush and use
that kind of verbage.
Regards,
George
George M. Wenger (908)-546-4531 [log in to unmask]
Celiant Corporation
40 Technology Drive
Warren, New Jersey 07059
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:41 AM
To: [log in to unmask]; Wenger, George M.
Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
George,
I ran out of gas days ago attempting to enliven the group. I was
thankful as
were many others.
The technical term "suck" got me excited all over again. Thought I was
only
one capable of portraying the inability of something to function using
such
verbage.
Not at all surprised this, but by you,
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:12:06 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
George,
I always credited Jim Raby for the term "nothing solders like solder". Who
stole it from who? (ha, ha)
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: Wenger, George M. [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:08 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
Earl,
During my 33 years with Lucent the two things I've been credited
with
are saying "nothing solders like solder" and "Palladium sucks".
When
you're doing solder assembly and get parts that won't solder and
your
management says "make them solder" and your customers say "I want
good
quality assembles NOW!" you tend to not beat arround the bush and
use
that kind of verbage.
Regards,
George
George M. Wenger (908)-546-4531 [log in to unmask]
Celiant Corporation
40 Technology Drive
Warren, New Jersey 07059
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:41 AM
To: [log in to unmask]; Wenger, George M.
Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
George,
I ran out of gas days ago attempting to enliven the group. I was
thankful as
were many others.
The technical term "suck" got me excited all over again. Thought I
was
only
one capable of portraying the inability of something to function
using
such
verbage.
Not at all surprised this, but by you,
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:23:14 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: To form or not to Form
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_6E334845.F392FFD8"
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=_6E334845.F392FFD8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
Well, if you can actually get the part on the board will be a major =
accomplishment all in it's own. =20
Kathy=20
--=_6E334845.F392FFD8
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY
style="FONT: 10pt Abadi MT Condensed Light; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: 2px">
<DIV>Well, if you can actually get the part on the board will be a major
accomplishment all in it's own. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
--=_6E334845.F392FFD8--
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:45:33 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Safavi-Bayat Shahed <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Looking For Fab-shop
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi everybody,
I like to know if anyone can refer to me a good manufacturer of boards
in Florida.
I am interested in shop that do silver immersion finish.
Thanks in advance
Shahed
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:18:19 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Conformal Coating Process
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Jim! One test which we have found to be useful is the RTCA/DO-160D
Humidity test. The test is essentially a 10 day test utilizing a cyclic
temperature/humidity recipe. Good Luck.
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
"Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/10/2001 07:39:16
AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: [TN] Conformal Coating Process
Happy Monday, Technet:
I'm trying to qualify a new cleaning process for electrical assemblies
prior
to conformal coating (Military boards). The old MIL Specs had as
cleanliness requirement of 2 meg-ohms minimum, is this all I need to do,
verify cleanliness to 2 meg-ohms? What about subjecting the assemblies to
10-day elevated temp/humidity (steady state)? Any recommendations?
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:56:33 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Roger M. Stoops" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: To form or not to Form
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
In addition to Kathy's comment, Yes. Unless the pcb holes are
**extremely** oversize, you will have a hard time inserting the caps.
Insertion flat to the board will create a lateral stress (shear stress) to
the leads where they are welded/assembled to the cap body, that could/would
cause a failure anywhere from during assembly to some time during the life
of the product. Can't be good for the plated hole either.
Can you get your customer to compromise, for example, form the leads as
close to the body as possible without placing undue stress on the lead
welds, and applying a Loctite(R) or RTV under the part? We have used this
in the past with good results. Looks silly/funny/kludgey, but may just
work.
Otherwise, our sincere condolences.
Roger M. Stoops, C.I.D., PCB Designer
[log in to unmask]
Trimble
Engineering and Construction Division
5475 Kellenburger Rd.
Dayton, OH 45424-1099 USA
Ph: +01 937.233.8921 or +01 937.233.4574 ext 288
Fax: +01 937.233.7511
Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
12/12/01 08:25 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."
Hi all
I hope this gets some good advice.
I have a customer who is requiring the placement of an electrolitic cap
that has a lead spacing of 0.140" and the PCB has 0.100". They do not want
the leads formed, they want the part flat to the board. In doing this, am
I opening myself up to stress induced failures of the component.
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:57:02 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
X-To: [log in to unmask]
George,
Outstanding. Though it's not much of a spoon with which to stir such a
shrinking pot, "sucks" is something with which to work.
Of course, though it doesn't often show on this forum, I started in this
business in 19 hum 63. My parther, then as now, taught me the phrases
nothing solders to solder like solder, let's have a fugarwe meeting, and
management seldom get's it right but shares, or takes, all the credit when
it's done right by workers, or some such thing.
Like I say "not much of a spoon or pot today,"
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:58:52 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
X-To: [log in to unmask]
forgot to congratulate you on 33 years at ONE company. That's the real news
in this age.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:07:18 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: To form or not to Form
Unfortunately the customer does not accept even the 2mm allowed by IPC for
a straight drop in radial part. RTV was also rejected.
The bottom of the cap does have a flexible rubber seal on the bottom that
takes some of the stress. The part can be "pushed" into the PTH but it does
do a number on the plating of the lead and the barrel.
What I am down to now I think is a Liability/Reliability issue.
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:59:58 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: To form or not to Form
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Andre! One of my mentor's always used to tell me that the theme song for
components which do not incorporation stress relief in the lead
configuration was "Pop goes the Weasel"! In fact he used to hum the tune
during design/producibility reviews. No stress relief is a bad idea unless
you like cracked solder joints or damage components.
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/12/2001 07:25:59 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: [TN] To form or not to Form
Hi all
I hope this gets some good advice.
I have a customer who is requiring the placement of an electrolitic cap
that has a lead spacing of 0.140" and the PCB has 0.100". They do not want
the leads formed, they want the part flat to the board. In doing this, am
I opening myself up to stress induced failures of the component.
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:35:34 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: To form or not to Form
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I did not see any one mention the fact that the leads of this component are
passing through a seal that is intended to keep an electrolyte inside the
component. Stressing the seal in this manner is unacceptable. It will very
likely cause the component to fail prematurely.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Andre Leclair
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:26 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] To form or not to Form
>
>
> Hi all
> I hope this gets some good advice.
>
> I have a customer who is requiring the placement of an electrolitic cap
> that has a lead spacing of 0.140" and the PCB has 0.100". They
> do not want
> the leads formed, they want the part flat to the board. In doing this, am
> I opening myself up to stress induced failures of the component.
>
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:59:00 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: To form or not to Form
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Did your customer spec the part and design the board? If so, shame on
them and then they should not complain as they created the problem. As
a general design rule we try to standardize our PTH hole spacing on a
given distance and then make every effort to buy components to that lead
spacing spec. Periodically we encounter a design change or other
problem that forces us to manually bend the leads to fit into the hole
spacing. In the case of electrolytic cans we will sometimes use a daub
of RTV to keep the part from moving and causing stress on the leads.
But, this is just MHO.
Phil Nutting
-----Original Message-----
From: Andre Leclair [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] To form or not to Form
Hi all
I hope this gets some good advice.
I have a customer who is requiring the placement of an electrolitic cap
that has a lead spacing of 0.140" and the PCB has 0.100". They do not
want
the leads formed, they want the part flat to the board. In doing this,
am
I opening myself up to stress induced failures of the component.
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:09:34 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Cathy Killen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Measure of Quality Performance
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi,
What would technetters recommend as the best measure of quality performance
in contract assembly with a high level of small to medium batches (10-100)?
Cathy Killen
Training Instructor
Smtek Europe Ltd.
The information contained in the E-mail is confidential. It is intended only
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The views expressed in this E-mail are those of the author, and do not
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otherwise expressly indicated.
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:21:22 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Darrel Therriault <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: INCEP Technologies, Inc.
Subject: Re: Measure of Quality Performance
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cathy,
How about "zero defects"!!
DT
Cathy Killen wrote:
> Hi,
> What would technetters recommend as the best measure of quality performance
> in contract assembly with a high level of small to medium batches (10-100)?
>
> Cathy Killen
> Training Instructor
> Smtek Europe Ltd.
> The information contained in the E-mail is confidential. It is intended only
> for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is
> unauthorised.
> The views expressed in this E-mail are those of the author, and do not
> represent the views of Smtek Europe, its associates or subsidiaries, unless
> otherwise expressly indicated.
> Please note: It is your responsibility to scan this E-mail for viruses.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Darrel Therriault
VP, Mfg. Operations
INCEP Technologies, Inc
(858)547-9925 223
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:57:47 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve Underwood <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Looking For Fab-shop
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Shahed,
We aren't in Florida, but we do have the immersion silver finish available
(in-house).
I would have emailed you directly, but your email address didn't show up...
Steve Underwood
Circuit Center, Inc.
4738 Gateway Circle
Dayton, Ohio 45440
(937) 435-2131
(937) 689-0116 (mobile)
(937) 435-7698
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Safavi-Bayat Shahed
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:46 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Looking For Fab-shop
Hi everybody,
I like to know if anyone can refer to me a good manufacturer of boards
in Florida.
I am interested in shop that do silver immersion finish.
Thanks in advance
Shahed
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:59:00 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Scott Kauling <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Tri-onics, Inc.
Subject: Re: Measure of Quality Performance
Cathy,
IPC 7912 is your standard, it explains how to calculate defects per million
opportunities and how to calculate manufacturing indices for PCA's.
Good Luck,
SCOTT
-----Original Message-----
From: Cathy Killen [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:10 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Measure of Quality Performance
Importance: High
Hi,
What would technetters recommend as the best measure of quality performance
in contract assembly with a high level of small to medium batches (10-100)?
Cathy Killen
Training Instructor
Smtek Europe Ltd.
The information contained in the E-mail is confidential. It is intended
only
for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is
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The views expressed in this E-mail are those of the author, and do not
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otherwise expressly indicated.
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:20:26 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Faraci, Jennifer L" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Do you have any idea how either of these (Sodium Silicate or Silicon
Dioxide) will effect the electrical performance of circuit cards?
-----Original Message-----
From: <Rudy Sedlak> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 1:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Sodium Silicate Contamination
Jennifer:
You probably did not discover Sodium Silcate...which, in small particles and
quantities is rapidly neutralized by the Carbon Dioxide in air to a form of
Hydrated Silicon Dioxide.....which is actually known as "Silicic Acid", but
is about as acidic as Carbon Dioxide in air..
The truth is that the stuff in small quantities is essentially harmless to
human beings. I would ignore it.
If you want to clean it up, probably the only reasonable way is to use a
simple mild detergent solution. If you want to remove every last atom of
Silicon Dioxide you would have to use some VERY hazardous chemicals.
My advice: Have a nice holiday...if people want to feel like they have "done
something to cure the problem"...wash the floor.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:45:13 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "MAZZI,DON (HP-Boise,ex1)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
C:\Program File:Vi\SPIOrRam Files\Visio
-----Original Message-----
From: Faraci, Jennifer L [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:20 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Sodium Silicate Contamination
Do you have any idea how either of these (Sodium Silicate or Silicon
Dioxide) will effect the electrical performance of circuit cards?
-----Original Message-----
From: <Rudy Sedlak> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 1:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Sodium Silicate Contamination
Jennifer:
You probably did not discover Sodium Silcate...which, in small particles and
quantities is rapidly neutralized by the Carbon Dioxide in air to a form of
Hydrated Silicon Dioxide.....which is actually known as "Silicic Acid", but
is about as acidic as Carbon Dioxide in air..
The truth is that the stuff in small quantities is essentially harmless to
human beings. I would ignore it.
If you want to clean it up, probably the only reasonable way is to use a
simple mild detergent solution. If you want to remove every last atom of
Silicon Dioxide you would have to use some VERY hazardous chemicals.
My advice: Have a nice holiday...if people want to feel like they have "done
something to cure the problem"...wash the floor.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:02:24 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Zweigart, Siegmund" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: LLP
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello
We are trying to do a detailed Qualification of an assembly and repair-
process for LLP (and similar)- packages.
Has anybody infomation regarding this subjects.
Will the amount of LLP increase in the future?
How can I get information about this topic?
Best regards
Siegmund Zweigart
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
--------------------
Kind regards / Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen
Dr. Siegmund Zweigart
New Technology Manager
Solectron GmbH
Solectronstrasse 2 Fon. ++49 7032 998 194
D - 71083 Herrenberg Fax ++49 7032 998 49 222
e-mail: [log in to unmask]
internet: www.solectron.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
--------------------
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:54:59 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LLP
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_d7.10976ab6.29490203_boundary"
--part1_d7.10976ab6.29490203_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Language: en
Hi Siegmund!
Go to: http://www.national.com/packaging/llp/
and you'll find Application Notes AN-1187 which is all about LLP's. Designin=
g=20
them in assemblies, reflow profiles, and rework procedures. There's even a=20
RealMedia video there that is showing the steps to use when reworking them.=20
They're using a OK Systems (now Metcal) BGA 3000 rework system.
According to National Semiconductor, LLP's are perfect for a wide variety of=
=20
applications. Such as:
Cell Phones=20
GPS Receivers =20
Pagers =20
PDA=E2=80=99s =20
Personal stereo / CD =20
Hard disk drives =20
Hand held portable devices =20
Toys =20
Notebooks =20
-Steve Gregory-
=20
=20
> Hello
>=20
> We are trying to do a detailed Qualification of an assembly and repair-
> process for LLP (and similar)- packages.
> Has anybody infomation regarding this subjects.
> Will the amount of LLP increase in the future?
> How can I get information about this topic?
>=20
> Best regards
>=20
> Siegmund Zweigart
>=20
--part1_d7.10976ab6.29490203_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Language: en
<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi Siegmund!
<BR>
<BR>Go to: http://www.national.com/packaging/llp/
<BR>
<BR>and you'll find Application Notes AN-1187 which is all about LLP's. Desi=
gning them in assemblies, reflow profiles, and rework procedures. There's ev=
en a RealMedia video there that is showing the steps to use when reworking t=
hem. They're using a OK Systems (now Metcal) BGA 3000 rework system.
<BR>
<BR>According to National Semiconductor, LLP's are perfect for a wide variet=
y of applications. Such as:
<BR>
<BR>Cell Phones</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"=
FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">=20
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar=
ial" LANG=3D"0">GPS Receivers</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> =20
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar=
ial" LANG=3D"0">Pagers</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SAN=
SSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> =20
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar=
ial" LANG=3D"0">PDA=E2=80=99s</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> =20
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar=
ial" LANG=3D"0">Personal stereo / CD</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3=
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> =20
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar=
ial" LANG=3D"0">Hard disk drives</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAM=
ILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> =20
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar=
ial" LANG=3D"0">Hand held portable devices</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SI=
ZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> =20
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar=
ial" LANG=3D"0">Toys</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSS=
ERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> =20
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar=
ial" LANG=3D"0">Notebooks</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"=
SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> =20
<BR>
<BR>-Steve Gregory-
<BR> =20
<BR> =20
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar=
ial" LANG=3D"0">
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-=
LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hello
<BR>
<BR>We are trying to do a detailed Qualification of an assembly and repair-
<BR>process for LLP (and similar)- packages.
<BR>Has anybody infomation regarding this subjects.
<BR>Will the amount of LLP increase in the future?
<BR>How can I get information about this topic?
<BR>
<BR>Best regards
<BR>
<BR>Siegmund Zweigart
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar=
ial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ar=
ial" LANG=3D"0">
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:30:57 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...
Theory 3, which many of these OEM's may hide behind is that if company A
buys an ACME pick and place machine and beats the heck out of it, never
performs any preventive maintenance on the machine, then sells it to company
B. Company B may have problems with the machine and start to assume that
ACME equipment is awful. Even if the ACME guys come in and say that the
company A abused the machine and that the performance is not indicative of
well cared for ACME equipment, it would be hard to change the view of
management- and thus ACME may lose millions of potential sales in the
future.
This would often be the OEM argument, and it makes sense, however I believe
the other theories play as large or larger a part in the equipment buy up.
Steve A
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen R. Gregory [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday,December 11,2001 8:16 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Interesting trend lately...
>
> Just thought I'd pass on something that I've just learned about. We've
> been
> looking at purchasing some used, or more politically correct I suppose,
> "pre-owned" pick and place equipment.
>
> Have found out that there are OEM's of these machines out there, that are
> buying as many of the used machines that are out in the open market as
> they
> can, to prevent them from being sold to the general market (like us guys)
> that want to buy them...just found that rather interesting...
>
> They don't want their used machines being sold and traded, and are trying
> to
> make sure that anybody that wants their equipment has to buy "New" from
> them
> by taking as many of the used machines off the market as they can...I
> guess
> that is one marketing strategy...don't really understand it, but I guess
> that's why I'm not a sales guy...
>
> Have any of you heard about this?
>
> -Steve Gregory-
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:10:29 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Jana L. Carraway" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Greetings All,
I have in the back of my mind, a dusty place indeed, that IPC had a document
containing Supplier Audit guidelines. I have surfed the IPC site and do not
find such a document in the Technical Publications pdf. Does IPC have
something like this, or ... I'm losing it!
Thanks for the help,
Jana Carraway
Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:35:56 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Sodium Silicate is ionic, and can give you problems passing SIR type tests....
Silicon Dioxide is what is found in the little "water absorbing" pillows
sometimes used in packages to keep things dry...and likely will give you no
problems whatever.
If you pass the usual ion contamination tests, you can probably ignore the
whole thing.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:09:14 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_d0.1f702b33.29492f8a_boundary"
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Jana,
Go to www.ipc.org, then click on Online Resources and Databases, then scroll
all the way down to IPC Documents Available for Download and click on that.
You will find:
IPC-1710 OEM
Standard for Printed Board Manufacturers' Qualification Profile
Developed by the OEM council of the IPC, the MQP sets the standard for
assessing PWB manufacturers capabilities and allows PWB manufacturers to more
easily satisfy customer requirements.
IPC-1720
Assembly Qualification Profile Developed by the OEM council of the IPC,
IPC-1720 categorized an electronic assembly manufacturer's capabilities and
supplies the OEM customer with detailed, substantive information.
IPC-1730A
Laminator Qualifier Profile
Are you a laminate manufacturer looking to provide your customers with a
consistent, detailed report on your facility(s)? IPC-1730A is the one tool
laminate manufacturers can use to provide current and potential customers
with a profile of their facilities. By completing this questionnaire,
laminators can provide information on materials supplied, approvals and
certifications, testing available, equipment capabilities and more!
IPC-1731
Strategic Raw Materials Supplier Qualification Profile (SRMSQP)
Suppliers of raw materials to laminate manufacture now have an industry
approved questionaire to supply current and potential customers with a self
assessment of their facility(s). IPC-1731 gives suppliers of raw materials
the opportunity to create a profile of their manufacturing facility(s) that
will be consistent with those developed by similar suppliers. Using the MS
Word template enables easy creation and maintenance of the file(s) and
provide their customers with an electronic file for their records.
-Steve Gregory-
> Greetings All,
>
> I have in the back of my mind, a dusty place indeed, that IPC had a document
> containing Supplier Audit guidelines. I have surfed the IPC site and do not
> find such a document in the Technical Publications pdf. Does IPC have
> something like this, or ... I'm losing it!
> Thanks for the help,
> Jana Carraway
> Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.
>
--part1_d0.1f702b33.29492f8a_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Jana,
<BR>
<BR>Go to www.ipc.org, then click on Online Resources and Databases, then scroll all the way down to IPC Documents Available for Download and click on that.
<BR>
<BR>You will find:
<BR>
<BR>IPC-1710 OEM
<BR>Standard for Printed Board Manufacturers' Qualification Profile
<BR>
<BR>Developed by the OEM council of the IPC, the MQP sets the standard for assessing PWB manufacturers capabilities and allows PWB manufacturers to more easily satisfy customer requirements.
<BR>
<BR>IPC-1720
<BR>Assembly Qualification Profile Developed by the OEM council of the IPC, IPC-1720 categorized an electronic assembly manufacturer's capabilities and supplies the OEM customer with detailed, substantive information.
<BR>
<BR>IPC-1730A
<BR>Laminator Qualifier Profile
<BR>Are you a laminate manufacturer looking to provide your customers with a consistent, detailed report on your facility(s)? IPC-1730A is the one tool laminate manufacturers can use to provide current and potential customers with a profile of their facilities. By completing this questionnaire, laminators can provide information on materials supplied, approvals and certifications, testing available, equipment capabilities and more!
<BR>
<BR>IPC-1731
<BR>Strategic Raw Materials Supplier Qualification Profile (SRMSQP)
<BR>Suppliers of raw materials to laminate manufacture now have an industry approved questionaire to supply current and potential customers with a self assessment of their facility(s). IPC-1731 gives suppliers of raw materials the opportunity to create a profile of their manufacturing facility(s) that will be consistent with those developed by similar suppliers. Using the MS Word template enables easy creation and maintenance of the file(s) and provide their customers with an electronic file for their records.
<BR>
<BR>-Steve Gregory-
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Greetings All,
<BR>
<BR>I have in the back of my mind, a dusty place indeed, that IPC had a document
<BR>containing Supplier Audit guidelines. I have surfed the IPC site and do not
<BR>find such a document in the Technical Publications pdf. Does IPC have
<BR>something like this, or ... I'm losing it!
<BR>Thanks for the help,
<BR>Jana Carraway
<BR>Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:25:01 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Lucas Paul-R32425 <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: To form or not to Form
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Andre,
Is there clearance around the capacitor? If there is, why not lay the part flat on its side with the legs parallel to the board and then form the leads to fit the holes? It will take several bends to align to the hole and another bend to put the leads down into the hole but,the part will be flat against the board and there will be no stress on the leads at the body part.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Andre Leclair [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] To form or not to Form
Hi all
I hope this gets some good advice.
I have a customer who is requiring the placement of an electrolitic cap
that has a lead spacing of 0.140" and the PCB has 0.100". They do not want
the leads formed, they want the part flat to the board. In doing this, am
I opening myself up to stress induced failures of the component.
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:47:36 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Jana L. Carraway" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01C1832C.B3D142C0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C1832C.B3D142C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thank you very much!
Jana Carraway
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stephen R. Gregory
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 2:09 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
Hi Jana,
Go to www.ipc.org, then click on Online Resources and Databases, then
scroll all the way down to IPC Documents Available for Download and click on
that.
------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C1832C.B3D142C0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D585284600-13122001>Thank=20
you very much!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D585284600-13122001>Jana=20
Carraway</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Stephen R. =
Gregory<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Wednesday, December 12, 2001 2:09 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] IPC Supplier Audit=20
Guidelines<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2>Hi=20
Jana, <BR><BR>Go to www.ipc.org, then click on Online Resources and =
Databases,=20
then scroll all the way down to IPC Documents Available for Download =
and click=20
on that. <BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C1832C.B3D142C0--
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:51:36 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Peter George Duncan>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: To form or not to Form
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I second Paul's suggestion, and back up all the other comments that have
been made about the dangers of trying to "normally" mount an electrolytic
in this situation. Is your customer just arrogantly stubborn, or does he
have a very good reason for needing the componenet mounted hard down? It
really isn't possible to do without component damage in the short term,
unless you are allowed to put a stand-off/isolator washer between component
and PCB that accommodates the stress relief forming of the leads (such
isolators are available). The isolator would offer mechanical support to
the electrolytic while also providing relief to the leads (unless there is
a height constraint).
If you are still forced to follow customer instruction to hard-mount, I
would issue a written disclaimer that you will not be held responsible for
the failure of this component.
Good luck. Hope there isn't too big a rock near the hard place.
Peter Duncan
Lucas
Paul-R32425 To: [log in to unmask]
<Paul.Lucas@MOT cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
OROLA.COM> Aero/ST Group)
Sent by: Subject: Re: [TN] To form or not to Form
TechNet
<[log in to unmask]
G>
12/13/01 07:25
AM
Please respond
to "TechNet
E-Mail Forum."
Andre,
Is there clearance around the capacitor? If there is, why not lay the part
flat on its side with the legs parallel to the board and then form the
leads to fit the holes? It will take several bends to align to the hole and
another bend to put the leads down into the hole but,the part will be flat
against the board and there will be no stress on the leads at the body
part.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Andre Leclair [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] To form or not to Form
Hi all
I hope this gets some good advice.
I have a customer who is requiring the placement of an electrolitic cap
that has a lead spacing of 0.140" and the PCB has 0.100". They do not want
the leads formed, they want the part flat to the board. In doing this, am
I opening myself up to stress induced failures of the component.
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:20:14 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jiang Ping <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LLP
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:21:37 +1300
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Michael Bell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Solderability of Organic Silver PCB's
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boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C18385.463E46A0"
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Hi all,
I am currently having a few problems with soldering an Organic Silver
finished PCB. The PCB is a Rodgers material, but I have no information on
the exact type. I am using Multicore X33-12i no-clean flux, but this
appears to have no effect on the pads. All of the joints are partial, and
have very poor wetting, if any!! Has anyone had similar problems to this???
Any suggestions on how to fix this?? Unfortunately I can't use a clean flux
as I don't have the facility to clean PCB's.
Cheers
Mike
------_=_NextPart_001_01C18385.463E46A0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=130461703-13122001>Hi
all,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=130461703-13122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=130461703-13122001>I am
currently having a few problems with soldering an Organic Silver finished
PCB. The PCB is a Rodgers material, but I have no information on the exact
type. I am using Multicore X33-12i no-clean flux, but this appears to have
no effect on the pads. All of the joints are partial, and have very poor
wetting, if any!! Has anyone had similar problems to this??? Any
suggestions on how to fix this?? Unfortunately I can't use a clean flux as
I don't have the facility to clean PCB's.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=130461703-13122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=130461703-13122001>Cheers</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=130461703-13122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=130461703-13122001>Mike</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:02:22 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Measure of Quality Performance
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Generated by NET-TEL Mailguard SMTP version 4.0.0.22)
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Depends on what you want to do with the quality numbers. First pass yield =
is an easy to use and practical measure, although it's purpose it limited.
Daan Terstegge
SMT Centre
Thales Communications
Unclassified mail
Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net
>>> Cathy Killen <[log in to unmask]> 12/12 5:09 pm >>>
Hi,
What would technetters recommend as the best measure of quality performance=
in contract assembly with a high level of small to medium batches =
(10-100)?
Cathy Killen
Training Instructor
Smtek Europe Ltd.
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only
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:19:21 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
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Rudy,
Sorry, I cannot agree with you re silica gel. That can become very
conductive if it has absorbed water, especially the blue-dry pink-wet
variety, which is ionic (contains cobalt chloride). However, if present
as a floor filling, it would probably be quartz sand which, if washed,
should not cause electrical problems (note some quartz sand deposits may
contain salt).
Brian
"" wrote:
>
> Sodium Silicate is ionic, and can give you problems passing SIR type tests....
>
> Silicon Dioxide is what is found in the little "water absorbing" pillows
> sometimes used in packages to keep things dry...and likely will give you no
> problems whatever.
>
> If you pass the usual ion contamination tests, you can probably ignore the
> whole thing.
>
> Rudy Sedlak
> RD Chemical Company
>
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 19:14:14 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: kevinyeah <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Aluminum foil
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VEVDSE5FVGhlbGxvIGFsbDoNCg0KSSB3YW50IHRvIGZpbmQgYWx1bWludW0gZm9pbCBzdXBwbGll
ci5UaGUgYWx1bWludW0gc3BlY3MgYXJlOiBhbGxveSAzMDAzIG9yIDMwMDQsIEgxOSB0ZW1wZXIg
W2Z1bGwgaGFyZF0sIERlZ3JlYXNlZCwgdGhpY2tuZXNzIG9mIDAuMDVtbS5JZiBhbnkgb25lIGNh
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oaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhoaGhMjAwMS0xMi0xMw0K
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:50:06 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Aluminum foil
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Kevin
In a former life, I bought similar foil to this, but pure aluminium, in
50 cm wide rolls, from Alusuisse, who are represented in most countries.
However, I think they merged with Alcan last year, so I don't know under
whose banner the Sendzimir rolled products are now sold.
Brian
kevinyeah wrote:
>
> TECHNEThello all:
>
> I want to find aluminum foil supplier.The aluminum specs are: alloy 3003 or 3004, H19 temper [full hard], Degreased, thickness of 0.05mm.If any one can give me some information or idea,please tell me. Thank you at front.
>
> ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡kevinyeah
> ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡[log in to unmask]
> ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡2001-12-13
> ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿý7œ†w1¨¥.+-¦º/‰×jÆŸç¬z»âqæò ð®²)à,„“HDU×ÿ N‹§²æìr¸›{û Ö¦zË
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:26:33 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Gaetan Fournier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Trace resistance
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Does anybody knows a good link or freeware for DC resistive calculation in
function with the thickness, width and length of a PCB track. I already know
about "trace with calculator"
http://www.aracnet.com/cgi-usr/gpatrick/trace.pl but this is not exactly
what I'm looking for, current and temperature rises aren't the issues for my
application. It's more a question of DC equivalent resistive for a coil made
with a long PCB trace.
Thanks
GF
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:11:09 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
X-To: "Zhu, Xiang" <[log in to unmask]>
In-Reply-To: <BF527CBFE2D5D511AD15000629552BBE575EC2@SUZEXCH02>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello,
Since I cannot get a very clear picture from your
email, I can only provide some hints for your
reference:
1. Verify aspect ratio>=1.5 and area ratio>=0.66: I am
not sure what does that mean?
2. Try type 4 solder paste: We currently use type 3
No-Clean solder from Kester.
3. Make sure PCB have no wicking problem. The Rambus
PCB are bought from the shell on the market.
4. PCB solder pads have acceptable solderability: They
are gold plated and contaminated free.
5. If PCB is ENIG finish, make sure there is no "Black
Pad" defect: I need more education about the term
"ENIG" and "Black Pad"
6. PCB bow and twist in with specs (>.7 preferred).
They are within spec.
7. If CSP solder ball is 63Sn/37Pb, than I think
solder paste is not a key point for open solder joint
: It is 63Sn/37Pb, no clean solder paste from Kester.
8. Verify your reflow profile is within the specs
(according to solder paste vendor) They are in spec.
9. Cross-section to verify the IMC layer is in
standard thickness: We did cross section them and
found out the in-sufficient solder join or even NO
solder join at all on a few pads.
10. The pads on PCB should be a copper defined instead
of soldermask defined to prevent potential crack: They
are gold-plated.
11. Pay attention to your process to verify NO
excessive tension to your board (e.g. depanel, handle
etc.): We use DEK 265 series to (Horizon and
Infinitive models) print the solder. Printing at
15-20 mm/s.
12. Try to find where the open have (before wave or
after). If via hole under CSP haven't been plugged,
wave solder sometimes can cause open by remelt the
solder joint: The in-efficient solder firstly found
after screen-printing.
13. Ask your component/PCB vendor to do the failure
analysis, they maybe have much more experience than
you: We are trying.
Hope this helpful. It is helpful. However, we still
need more information. Until this moment, we still
think solder paste, stencil apperture, print speed and
pressure, and the stencil thickness could be the
cause. We are not sure yet.
Best regards,
> -----Original Message-----
> From: My Nguyen [ mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 2:43
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro
> BGA
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> Problem description:
>
> Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.
> Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball
> height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)
> 5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them)
> failure modules came from opening soder join or no
solder join
> at all. As we inspect the screen printing process
> (we
> use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning
> rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry),
> we
> found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has
> very
> little solder or no solder at all.
>
> Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape aperture,
> 13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.
>
> We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then
> we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce
> the
> stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or
> resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or
> many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,
> short-life, etc)
>
> What would be your solution?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stacy
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/gif name=std_logo.gif
__________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:38:43 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Roger M. Stoops" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Trace resistance
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Try http://www.ultracad.com/calc.htm and download "wiregage.exe". Lots of
other good calculators on this site. I have a brute-force formula too if
you're interested, but the Ultra-Cad calculator is much handier.
Roger M. Stoops, C.I.D., PCB Designer
[log in to unmask]
Trimble
Engineering and Construction Division
5475 Kellenburger Rd.
Dayton, OH 45424-1099 USA
Ph: +01 937.233.8921 or +01 937.233.4574 ext 288
Fax: +01 937.233.7511
Gaetan
Fournier To: [log in to unmask]
<FournierG@KA cc:
NTECH.COM> Subject: [TN] Trace resistance
Sent by:
TechNet
<[log in to unmask]
ORG>
12/13/01
12:26 PM
Please
respond to
"TechNet
E-Mail
Forum."
Does anybody knows a good link or freeware for DC resistive calculation in
function with the thickness, width and length of a PCB track. I already
know
about "trace with calculator"
http://www.aracnet.com/cgi-usr/gpatrick/trace.pl but this is not exactly
what I'm looking for, current and temperature rises aren't the issues for
my
application. It's more a question of DC equivalent resistive for a coil
made
with a long PCB trace.
Thanks
GF
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:41:36 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Darrel Therriault <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: INCEP Technologies, Inc.
Subject: .050 PWB
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Technet.....
PWB designer and fab folks........We are considering building an .050"
PWB with 2 oz Cu, 6-8 layers.
Any heartburn or horror stories with this design or is this within
normal capability from the design and fab perspective??
DT
--
Darrel Therriault
VP, Mfg. Operations
INCEP Technologies, Inc
(858)547-9925 223
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:03:14 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Trace resistance
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Gaetan,
I made an inquiry to one of our design engineers regarding pcb traces as
coils. Here is his response.
"If you know the cross sectional area and length of the winding you can
calculate the resistance. Ohms =3D rho x length/ Area where rho is the
resistivity of the etch material. For copper rho =3D 1.72e-8 ohm x
meters."
Hope this helps.
Phil Nutting
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Nutting =20
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:43 PM
To: Stephen Quigley
Subject: pcb coils
-----Original Message-----
From: Gaetan Fournier [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:27 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Trace resistance
Does anybody knows a good link or freeware for DC resistive calculation
in
function with the thickness, width and length of a PCB track. I already
know
about "trace with calculator"
http://www.aracnet.com/cgi-usr/gpatrick/trace.pl but this is not exactly
what I'm looking for, current and temperature rises aren't the issues
for my
application. It's more a question of DC equivalent resistive for a coil
made
with a long PCB trace.
Thanks
GF
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:03:30 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
Mime-Version: 1.0
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consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
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--=_326F1B85.A3C2AF8E
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Have you considered:
1) stencil thickness to a 6 mil or possible to incorporate a stepping into =
the stencil.
2) Are you kneading the paste?
3) Do you see a change in screening over time or consistently fro start to =
finish?
4) What are the controls for paste (how long out of frig before use, =
stirring, reusing, shelf life, jars left open, etc)
5) Stencil debris from wiping clothes? Do you have a build up of lint =
that could be causing the issue?
6) Pressure of stencil blades?Is there any difference between the front =
and back blade on print quality?
7) Blade age and wear?
8) Have you changed print speeds and seen any changes good or bad?
9) PCB supprts? Is the PCB supported so it doesn't sag when printing?
Trying to throw out some things to look at, hope it helps.
Kathy=20
=20
--=_326F1B85.A3C2AF8E
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEXT.htm"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY
style="FONT: 10pt Abadi MT Condensed Light; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: 2px">
<DIV>Have you considered:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1) stencil thickness to a 6 mil or possible to incorporate a stepping into
the stencil.</DIV>
<DIV>2) Are you kneading the paste?</DIV>
<DIV>3) Do you see a change in screening over time or consistently fro start to
finish?</DIV>
<DIV>4) What are the controls for paste (how long out of frig before use,
stirring, reusing, shelf life, jars left open, etc)</DIV>
<DIV>5) Stencil debris from wiping clothes? Do you have a build up of lint
that could be causing the issue?</DIV>
<DIV>6) Pressure of stencil blades?Is there any difference between the front and
back blade on print quality?</DIV>
<DIV>7) Blade age and wear?</DIV>
<DIV>8) Have you changed print speeds and seen any changes good or bad?</DIV>
<DIV>9) PCB supprts? Is the PCB supported so it doesn't sag when
printing?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Trying to throw out some things to look at, hope it helps.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
--=_326F1B85.A3C2AF8E--
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:27:56 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Frank Kimmey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Traces beneath components
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have been asked to justify routing of traces beneath chip components.
Does anyone have a spec, standard or documentation defining what trace
widths should be allowed beneath what packages?
As always any help is appreciated and all comments are solicited.
Thanks in Advance
FNK
Frank N Kimmey, C.I.D.+
Senior PCB Designer
Powerwave Technologies
PH. 916-941-3159
Fax 916-941-3195
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:30:38 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kris Keating <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: porosity of gold plating on nickel
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of determining porosity of gold
plating over nickel on a PCB?
Kristopher J. Keating
Technical Service Engineer
Circuit-Wise, Inc.
400 Sackett Point Rd.
North Haven, CT 06473
Tel. (203) 281-6511
Fax (203) 287-8409
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:30:58 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Hiteshew, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Trace resistance
MIME-version: 1.0
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Gaetan:
Here's something I worked out some time ago:
Resistance of a Trace
---------------------
A) Resistivity (r) of copper @ 20 deg c = 10.37 [(circular mils *
ohms)
divided by feet]
B) The units of resistivity (r) are: circular mils, ohms, feet
if : 1 circular mil = 0.78540 square mils
then :
Resistivity (r) of copper = 10.37 * 0.78540 [(square mils * ohms)
divided by feet]
= 8.15 [(square mils * ohms) divided by
feet]
also if : 1 foot = 12 inches (and 1 divided by 12 = .083333...)
then :
Resistivity (r) of copper = 8.15 * .083 [(square mils * ohms)
divided by inches]
= 0.679 [(square mils * ohms) per inch]
The formula for resistance of a material is:
R = r(l/a)
where
R = resistance in ohms
r = resistivity
l = length in inches
a = cross sectional area of conductor (trace) in square mils
So:
If an internal trace on a circuit board is .010 inch wide, is one
inch
long and was etched on 1 oz/sqft (.0014 inch thick) copper clad
laminate,
then its' resistance is :
a = 10 * 1.4 = 14 sq_mils
l = 1
R = .679 sq_mil-ohms per inch ( 1 / 14 sq_mils )
= .679 sq_mil-ohms per inch ( .071 in/sq_mils )
= .049 ohms
I realize this is English units, so you'll need to adjust, obviously, to
metric.
Michael Hiteshew
Lockheed Martin NE&SS Marine Systems
410-682-1259
-----Original Message-----
From: Gaetan Fournier [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:27 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Trace resistance
Does anybody knows a good link or freeware for DC resistive calculation
in
function with the thickness, width and length of a PCB track. I already
know
about "trace with calculator"
http://www.aracnet.com/cgi-usr/gpatrick/trace.pl but this is not exactly
what I'm looking for, current and temperature rises aren't the issues
for my
application. It's more a question of DC equivalent resistive for a coil
made
with a long PCB trace.
Thanks
GF
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:09:32 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Traces beneath components
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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I think IPC-2222 provides some of the kind of guidance you are requesting.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Frank Kimmey
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:28 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Traces beneath components
>
>
> I have been asked to justify routing of traces beneath chip components.
> Does anyone have a spec, standard or documentation defining what trace
> widths should be allowed beneath what packages?
> As always any help is appreciated and all comments are solicited.
> Thanks in Advance
> FNK
>
> Frank N Kimmey, C.I.D.+
> Senior PCB Designer
> Powerwave Technologies
> PH. 916-941-3159
> Fax 916-941-3195
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
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>
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:16:11 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I have seen people mistake insufficient reflow temperature for insuffient
solder paste on this type part.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of My Nguyen
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:11 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
>
>
> Hello,
> Since I cannot get a very clear picture from your
> email, I can only provide some hints for your
> reference:
>
> 1. Verify aspect ratio>=1.5 and area ratio>=0.66: I am
> not sure what does that mean?
> 2. Try type 4 solder paste: We currently use type 3
> No-Clean solder from Kester.
> 3. Make sure PCB have no wicking problem. The Rambus
> PCB are bought from the shell on the market.
> 4. PCB solder pads have acceptable solderability: They
> are gold plated and contaminated free.
> 5. If PCB is ENIG finish, make sure there is no "Black
> Pad" defect: I need more education about the term
> "ENIG" and "Black Pad"
> 6. PCB bow and twist in with specs (>.7 preferred).
> They are within spec.
> 7. If CSP solder ball is 63Sn/37Pb, than I think
> solder paste is not a key point for open solder joint
> : It is 63Sn/37Pb, no clean solder paste from Kester.
> 8. Verify your reflow profile is within the specs
> (according to solder paste vendor) They are in spec.
> 9. Cross-section to verify the IMC layer is in
> standard thickness: We did cross section them and
> found out the in-sufficient solder join or even NO
> solder join at all on a few pads.
> 10. The pads on PCB should be a copper defined instead
> of soldermask defined to prevent potential crack: They
> are gold-plated.
> 11. Pay attention to your process to verify NO
> excessive tension to your board (e.g. depanel, handle
> etc.): We use DEK 265 series to (Horizon and
> Infinitive models) print the solder. Printing at
> 15-20 mm/s.
> 12. Try to find where the open have (before wave or
> after). If via hole under CSP haven't been plugged,
> wave solder sometimes can cause open by remelt the
> solder joint: The in-efficient solder firstly found
> after screen-printing.
> 13. Ask your component/PCB vendor to do the failure
> analysis, they maybe have much more experience than
> you: We are trying.
>
> Hope this helpful. It is helpful. However, we still
> need more information. Until this moment, we still
> think solder paste, stencil apperture, print speed and
> pressure, and the stencil thickness could be the
> cause. We are not sure yet.
>
> Best regards,
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: My Nguyen [ mailto:[log in to unmask]
> > <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 2:43
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [TN] Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro
> > BGA
> >
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Problem description:
> >
> > Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.
> > Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball
> > height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)
> > 5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them)
> > failure modules came from opening soder join or no
> solder join
> > at all. As we inspect the screen printing process
> > (we
> > use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning
> > rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry),
> > we
> > found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has
> > very
> > little solder or no solder at all.
> >
> > Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape aperture,
> > 13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.
> >
> > We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then
> > we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce
> > the
> > stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or
> > resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or
> > many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,
> > short-life, etc)
> >
> > What would be your solution?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Stacy
> >
> >
>
> > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/gif name=std_logo.gif
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:18:31 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Don Vischulis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Solderability of Organic Silver PCB's
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C183E1.0ADEAC10"
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------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C183E1.0ADEAC10
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mike:
I don't believe the laminate will affect the solderability of the board.
The only time I've encountered solderability problems with a silver finish
was when a subcontractor forgot to turn the rinse water on while processing
boards through the silver line. Is there any discoloration or dullness of
the silver that might indicate contamination or oxidation of the pads? Have
you performed solderability testing on the boards? If Dave Hillman is out
there, he might want to comment on the ability of SERA or other methods to
evaluate the surface finish.
Regards,
Don Vischulis
Hi all,
I am currently having a few problems with soldering an Organic Silver
finished PCB. The PCB is a Rodgers material, but I have no information on
the exact type. I am using Multicore X33-12i no-clean flux, but this
appears to have no effect on the pads. All of the joints are partial, and
have very poor wetting, if any!! Has anyone had similar problems to this???
Any suggestions on how to fix this?? Unfortunately I can't use a clean flux
as I don't have the facility to clean PCB's.
Cheers
Mike
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C183E1.0ADEAC10
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D058311120-13122001>Mike:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D058311120-13122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D058311120-13122001>I don't believe the laminate will affect the=20
solderability of the board. The only time I've encountered =
solderability=20
problems with a silver finish was when a subcontractor forgot to turn =
the rinse=20
water on while processing boards through the silver line. Is there =
any=20
discoloration or dullness of the silver that might indicate =
contamination or=20
oxidation of the pads? Have you performed solderability testing on =
the=20
boards? If Dave Hillman is out there, he might want to =
comment on the=20
ability of SERA or other methods to evaluate the surface=20
finish.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D058311120-13122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D058311120-13122001>Regards,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D058311120-13122001>Don =
Vischulis</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D058311120-13122001> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV=
>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D058311120-13122001> </SPAN>Hi=20
all,</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D130461703-13122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D130461703-13122001>I am=20
currently having a few problems with soldering an Organic Silver =
finished=20
PCB. The PCB is a Rodgers material, but I have no information on =
the exact=20
type. I am using Multicore X33-12i no-clean flux, but this appears =
to have=20
no effect on the pads. All of the joints are partial, and have =
very poor=20
wetting, if any!! Has anyone had similar problems to this??? =
Any=20
suggestions on how to fix this?? Unfortunately I can't use a clean =
flux as=20
I don't have the facility to clean PCB's.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D130461703-13122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D130461703-13122001>Cheers</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D130461703-13122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D130461703-13122001>Mike</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C183E1.0ADEAC10--
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:30:15 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Vandendolder, Ron" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: porosity of gold plating on nickel
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Kris,
Although not quantitative, I was impressed with some SEM's (Scanning
Electron Microscope)
pictures taken of some gold plated Duroid boards that were not performing as
expected. The pictures showed globular deposits of gold on the top surface.
Where the globular deposits didn't
touch, nickel was clearly showing.
Ron VandenDolder
Product Development Group
Telaxis Communications
SouthDeerfield, MA
413-665-8551
-----Original Message-----
From: Kris Keating [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:31 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] porosity of gold plating on nickel
Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of determining porosity of gold
plating over nickel on a PCB?
Kristopher J. Keating
Technical Service Engineer
Circuit-Wise, Inc.
400 Sackett Point Rd.
North Haven, CT 06473
Tel. (203) 281-6511
Fax (203) 287-8409
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:44:57 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
Hey Stacy,
It sounds as though on paper, your process is OK. Just to fill you in on
aspect ratio, that is aperture width/stencil thickness. This is a good rule
of thumb for rectangular apertures such as for fine pitch components. For
small circular or square apertures most people use the area aspect ratio
which is aperture area/wall area. The area aspect ratio should be above
.66. Thus on a .005" thick stencil with a .0135" square aperture you are
looking at (.0135*.0135)/((.0135*.005)*4) = .675.
Actually the area aspect ratio for a .0135" round aperture is the same as
that for a square aperture, yet release on the square aperture has generally
been proven to be better (don't forget a .002" or .003" radius on the
corners).
Anyway my point was going to be that I had the exact same apertures ordered
on one particular project, and the apertures all clogged up (luckily we
caught them at the visual step). It seems the apertures were severely
undersized (more like .0122" x .0122"). So are your apertures really
.0135"?
As Kathy mentioned, kneed or condition your paste. The paste may take a few
prints to fully mix and provide the thixotropic characteristics that you
want. We use a dummy board for the first print, and then print our first
production board.
Personally I think you could get away with a .015" aperture if you are
dealing with a .0315" pitch product. Even if they undercut your stencil,
you should be fine.
Good luck....
Steve A
> -----Original Message-----
> From: My Nguyen [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday,December 11,2001 11:43 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
>
> Hello all,
>
> Problem description:
>
> Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.
> Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball
> height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)
> 5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure
> modules came from opening soder join or no solder join
> at all. As we inspect the screen printing process (we
> use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning
> rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we
> found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has very
> little solder or no solder at all.
>
> Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape aperture,
> 13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.
>
> We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then
> we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce the
> stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or
> resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or
> many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,
> short-life, etc)
>
> What would be your solution?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stacy
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:49:52 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mark Mazzoli <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: porosity of gold plating on nickel
In-Reply-To: <6A6EC06F9418D511B34A00B0D0AB0B77259781@CWSERVER>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Hi Kris,
Try IPC TM-650 2.3.24.2 Nitric Vapor Test. That's the easiest one I'm
aware of.
Here's a link:http://www.ipc.org/html/2.3.24.2.pdf
Mark Mazzoli
At 02:30 PM 12/13/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of determining porosity of gold
>plating over nickel on a PCB?
>
>
>Kristopher J. Keating
>Technical Service Engineer
>Circuit-Wise, Inc.
>400 Sackett Point Rd.
>North Haven, CT 06473
>Tel. (203) 281-6511
>Fax (203) 287-8409
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
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>
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:44:57 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hey Stacy,
It sounds as though on paper, your process is OK. Just to fill you in on
aspect ratio, that is aperture width/stencil thickness. This is a good rule
of thumb for rectangular apertures such as for fine pitch components. For
small circular or square apertures most people use the area aspect ratio
which is aperture area/wall area. The area aspect ratio should be above
66. Thus on a .005" thick stencil with a .0135" square aperture you are
looking at (.0135*.0135)/((.0135*.005)*4) = .675.
Actually the area aspect ratio for a .0135" round aperture is the same as
that for a square aperture, yet release on the square aperture has generally
been proven to be better (don't forget a .002" or .003" radius on the
corners).
Anyway my point was going to be that I had the exact same apertures ordered
on one particular project, and the apertures all clogged up (luckily we
caught them at the visual step). It seems the apertures were severely
undersized (more like .0122" x .0122"). So are your apertures really
0135"?
As Kathy mentioned, kneed or condition your paste. The paste may take a few
prints to fully mix and provide the thixotropic characteristics that you
want. We use a dummy board for the first print, and then print our first
production board.
Personally I think you could get away with a .015" aperture if you are
dealing with a .0315" pitch product. Even if they undercut your stencil,
you should be fine.
Good luck....
Steve A
> -----Original Message-----
> From: My Nguyen [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday,December 11,2001 11:43 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
>
> Hello all,
>
> Problem description:
>
> Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.
> Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball
> height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)
> 5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure
> modules came from opening soder join or no solder join
> at all. As we inspect the screen printing process (we
> use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning
> rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we
> found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has very
> little solder or no solder at all.
>
> Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape aperture,
> 13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.
>
> We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then
> we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce the
> stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or
> resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or
> many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,
> short-life, etc)
>
> What would be your solution?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Stacy
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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> E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:10:13 -0500
Reply-To: Tony Steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Tony Steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Circuit Technologies
Subject: Re: .050 PWB
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Darrel,
I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but almost all board shops should be able
to manufacture you construction with their eyes closed.
----- Original Message -----
From: Darrel Therriault <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:41 PM
Subject: [TN] .050 PWB
> Technet.....
>
> PWB designer and fab folks........We are considering building an .050"
> PWB with 2 oz Cu, 6-8 layers.
>
> Any heartburn or horror stories with this design or is this within
> normal capability from the design and fab perspective??
>
> DT
>
>
>
>
> --
> Darrel Therriault
> VP, Mfg. Operations
> INCEP Technologies, Inc
> (858)547-9925 223
> [log in to unmask]
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:10:06 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: .050 PWB
X-To: Tony Steinke <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Tony's right unless
you do something "unadvisable" such as an unbalanced construction, isolated
traces without thieving . . .
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Steinke [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 4:10 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] .050 PWB
Darrel,
I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but almost all board shops should be able
to manufacture you construction with their eyes closed.
----- Original Message -----
From: Darrel Therriault <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:41 PM
Subject: [TN] .050 PWB
> Technet.....
>
> PWB designer and fab folks........We are considering building an .050"
> PWB with 2 oz Cu, 6-8 layers.
>
> Any heartburn or horror stories with this design or is this within
> normal capability from the design and fab perspective??
>
> DT
>
>
>
>
> --
> Darrel Therriault
> VP, Mfg. Operations
> INCEP Technologies, Inc
> (858)547-9925 223
> [log in to unmask]
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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ext.5315
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:25:07 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Clemente <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: PCB Density Study/Design Quoting
X-To: [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello everyone,
I need to find an accurate PCB density study method and also an efficient =
method of quoting PCB designs.
Has anyone used the density study in IPC-2221? Is it accurate for =
Thru-hole and SMT? Are there other methods out there for density study?
Also, does anyone have any specifics or know where to obtain information =
on Quoting PCB design from Schematic to Layout, to Manufacture and =
Assembly of PCB?
Thanks,
Mike Clemente, C.I.D.
Sr. PCB Design Specialist
dZinit Applied Technologies
Tel: 847-545-8170
Fax: 847-545-8175
Email: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:27:57 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Karla Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: photoplotters
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate any
input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco Crescent
30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you have any
comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.
Karla Thompson
CAM Technician
Electronic Controls Design, Inc
Tel: (503) 829-9108
email: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:32:51 +0530
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pull-Off strength for Surface Mount Adhesives
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Technetters,
Can anyone tell me where to find the IPC specification for the pull-off and
Torque strengths for Surface mount adhesives. I have the test method but not
the specification. Of course the glue manufacturer has this specs written
onto the data sheet, but I need to check what is the range specified by the
IPC, whether the manufacturers range falls in the IPC range or not!
Thanks in anticipation
Regards
Vinit Verma
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:16:53 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Wenger, George M." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Solderability of Organic Silver PCB's
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mike,
My first reaction is to suggest you check to see that you really have a
silver surface finish. XRF or Auger depth profiling can identify the
surface finish and how thick it is. I'd also do Don's suggestion to
check for discoloration and dullness.
=20
Regards,=20
George=20
George M. Wenger (908)-546-4531 [log in to unmask]
Celiant Corporation=20
40 Technology Drive=20
Warren, New Jersey 07059=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Vischulis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:19 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Solderability of Organic Silver PCB's
Mike:
=20
I don't believe the laminate will affect the solderability of the board.
The only time I've encountered solderability problems with a silver
finish was when a subcontractor forgot to turn the rinse water on while
processing boards through the silver line. Is there any discoloration
or dullness of the silver that might indicate contamination or oxidation
of the pads? Have you performed solderability testing on the boards?
If Dave Hillman is out there, he might want to comment on the ability of
SERA or other methods to evaluate the surface finish.
=20
Regards,
Don Vischulis
=20
Hi all,
=20
I am currently having a few problems with soldering an Organic Silver
finished PCB. The PCB is a Rodgers material, but I have no information
on the exact type. I am using Multicore X33-12i no-clean flux, but this
appears to have no effect on the pads. All of the joints are partial,
and have very poor wetting, if any!! Has anyone had similar problems to
this??? Any suggestions on how to fix this?? Unfortunately I can't use
a clean flux as I don't have the facility to clean PCB's.
=20
Cheers
=20
Mike
------_=_NextPart_001_01C18499.3744CC4C
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D439041312-14122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Mike,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D439041312-14122001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>My=20
first reaction is to suggest you check to see that you really have a =
silver=20
surface finish. XRF or Auger depth profiling can identify the =
surface=20
finish and how thick it is. I'd also do Don's suggestion to check =
for=20
discoloration and dullness.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3D"Script =
MT Bold"=20
color=3D#800000 size=3D6>George</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>George M. Wenger (908)-546-4531=20
[log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Celiant=20
Corporation</FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>40 Technology =
Drive</FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Warren, New Jersey 07059</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Don Vischulis=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 13, =
2001 3:19=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] =
Solderability of=20
Organic Silver PCB's<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D058311120-13122001>Mike:</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D058311120-13122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D058311120-13122001>I don't believe the laminate will affect =
the=20
solderability of the board. The only time I've encountered =
solderability=20
problems with a silver finish was when a subcontractor forgot to turn =
the=20
rinse water on while processing boards through the silver line. =
Is there=20
any discoloration or dullness of the silver that might indicate =
contamination=20
or oxidation of the pads? Have you performed solderability =
testing on=20
the boards? If Dave Hillman is out there, he might want to =
comment=20
on the ability of SERA or other methods to evaluate the surface=20
finish.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D058311120-13122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D058311120-13122001>Regards,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D058311120-13122001>Don =
Vischulis</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
=
class=3D058311120-13122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV=
>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D130461703-13122001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D058311120-13122001> </SPAN>Hi=20
all,</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D130461703-13122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D130461703-13122001>I am=20
currently having a few problems with soldering an Organic Silver =
finished=20
PCB. The PCB is a Rodgers material, but I have no information on =
the=20
exact type. I am using Multicore X33-12i no-clean flux, but this =
appears=20
to have no effect on the pads. All of the joints are partial, =
and have=20
very poor wetting, if any!! Has anyone had similar problems to=20
this??? Any suggestions on how to fix this?? Unfortunately =
I can't=20
use a clean flux as I don't have the facility to clean=20
PCB's.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D130461703-13122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D130461703-13122001>Cheers</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D130461703-13122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
=
class=3D130461703-13122001>Mike</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></=
HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C18499.3744CC4C--
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:28:28 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mark Hargreaves <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: photoplotters
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi Karla,
We currently have a 3-4 year old CSI (guess it's Gretag now) plotter. We're
happy with the images, speed and up-time.
Regards,
Mark Hargreaves
EMDS
-----Original Message-----
From: Karla Thompson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] photoplotters
I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate
any
input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco
Crescent
30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you
have any
comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.
Karla Thompson
CAM Technician
Electronic Controls Design, Inc
Tel: (503) 829-9108
email: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:04:54 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Flux Controls
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Hello Technetters
I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand
soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am
concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the right
flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.
Thanks in advance.
Phil Belliveau
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:32:19 -0500
Reply-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Gerard O'Brien <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Photocircuits Corporation
Subject: IPC apex show
sorry if this subject is slightly off line from the original concept of
TechNet - However due to continuing travel restrictions within my company
and based on the dismal attendance at the Fall show in Orlando, I am trying
to determine whether to go to APEX or Expo later on next spring. Before
anyone comes back with "these events are for the two sides of our industry
and therefore should be treated as two separate events (assembly and fab),
my reason for going pertains to technical committees which meet at both.
So, what is the general consensus out there for attendance for APEX or is
everyone still on travel restrictions?
Regards
Gerard O'Brien
Photocircuits
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:47:02 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: porosity of gold plating on nickel
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Kris,
There is an old British Standard test for measuring porosity of gold on
nickel.
It was designed for electroplated gold thicknesses of 2 microns (0.0001
inches) on electroplated nickel edge connectors so I don't know if it's
relevant to you. If you're interested I'll have a look this weekend to see
if I still have it in the junk pile.
As far as I can remember the test consisted of soaking a piece of blotting
paper in dimethylglyoxime solution placing this over the connectors, passing
a current for a set time and inspecting the paper. Dimethylglyoxime turns
red in the presence of nickel so any pores in the gold will allow nickel
ions to pass through and stain the test paper.
hope this helps
Geoff Layhe
www.lamar-uk.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: Kris Keating [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 13 December 2001 19:31
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] porosity of gold plating on nickel
Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of determining porosity of gold
plating over nickel on a PCB?
Kristopher J. Keating
Technical Service Engineer
Circuit-Wise, Inc.
400 Sackett Point Rd.
North Haven, CT 06473
Tel. (203) 281-6511
Fax (203) 287-8409
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:07:21 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Flux Controls
Mime-Version: 1.0
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This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
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--=_E3BEC8AA.5C3D5070
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I would have the flux bottles labeled clearly and then in the process =
instructions have the operators remove all opposing fluxes and only have =
available the correct flux. The when the work is actually flowing through =
walk around and confirm that the operators are following the instructions =
and document the random audit. Communicate, communicate, communicate.....
Kathy=20
--=_E3BEC8AA.5C3D5070
Content-Type: text/plain
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<BODY
style="FONT: 10pt Abadi MT Condensed Light; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: 2px">
<DIV>I would have the flux bottles labeled clearly and then in the process
instructions have the operators remove all opposing fluxes and only have
available the correct flux. The when the work is actually flowing through walk
around and confirm that the operators are following the instructions and
document the random audit. Communicate, communicate,
communicate.....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:05:10 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Generated by NET-TEL Mailguard SMTP version 4.0.0.22)
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Dear Technetters,
For our stencils I have recently introduced the homeplate design for the =
apertures of chipcomponents larger than 1206.
But now a problem occurs with the guys who have to order the stencils: it =
takes a lot of time, by using Gerber data, partslist and assembly drawing =
to figure out which components are 1206, 1210, 1812. For a coil or =
tantalumcaps with such a footprint I don't want a homeplate aperture =
because these parts need a little more solder.
So we end up with a nice specification, but very unpractical for the =
production engineers.
How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions on how to make =
an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about easier ways to order a =
stencil according to my spec ?
Should I keep it simple and say "use homeplate-apertures for all footprints=
larger than 1.5 * 1.5 mm ?"
Daan Terstegge
SMT Centre
Thales Communications
Unclassified mail
Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:22:21 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Flux Controls
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
You may want to colour-code as well. Any fluxes used in that process are
labelled yellow, and fluxes for different processes are red or something,
then when they follow Kathy's instruction to remove opposing material they
should be left with all yellow, or all red bottles. That way you can tell
at a glance whether they have the right materials on their bench.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathy Kuhlow [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 14, 2001 8:07 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Flux Controls
I would have the flux bottles labeled clearly and then in the process
instructions have the operators remove all opposing fluxes and only have
available the correct flux. The when the work is actually flowing through
walk around and confirm that the operators are following the instructions
and document the random audit. Communicate, communicate, communicate.....
Kathy
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:24:20 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Flux Controls
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Phil,
We solved this problem by color coding the flux bottles and placing a
colored sticker on the work control document. Without it folks were using
whatever was in-front of them. Extra instructions alone didn't work.
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:05 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Flux Controls
Hello Technetters
I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand
soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am
concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the right
flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.
Thanks in advance.
Phil Belliveau
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:26:13 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi All!!
...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance! hehehe)
I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I could find
some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class A-2, with 50
plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...
This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's using
this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are installed on
the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about polysulfide
compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under MIL-S-8802, I find
all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but still nothing
alumina filled...
Any help will be much appreciated
-Steve Gregory-
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi All!!
<BR>
<BR>...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance! hehehe)
<BR>
<BR>I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I could find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class A-2, with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...
<BR>
<BR>This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's using this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are installed on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about polysulfide compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under MIL-S-8802, I find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but still nothing alumina filled...
<BR>
<BR>Any help will be much appreciated
<BR>
<BR>-Steve Gregory-
<BR></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:17:48 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Flux Controls
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I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand
soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am
concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the right
flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.
**Phil,
What do you mean by Type QA? What manufacturer and formulation number
(e.g. Kester 951)?
Doug
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:38:04 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
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don't know anything about the topic but I'll Friday dance with ya...tappity=
, tappity
Kathy=20
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<DIV>don't know anything about the topic but I'll Friday dance with
ya...tappity, tappity</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:51:23 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Flux Controls
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Phil,
Hans and Genny have mentioned some great ideas. The only thing I see
missing is consideration for the solder used. Are you using a flux
cored solder or solid solder? If there is a flux core in the solder you
will want to use the same identification system on the solder that you
use on your flux.
We have already been burned by this problem.
Phil Nutting
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:05 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Flux Controls
Hello Technetters
I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand
soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am
concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the
right
flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.
Thanks in advance.
Phil Belliveau
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:57:25 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Francois Monette <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
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In reviewing the IPC-1720 I noticed that the material handling section does
cover ESD policies and procedures but there is no mention of MSD control
(Moisture Sensitive Devices). Since MSD control is just as important as ESD
to insure the reliability of the finished product you might want to include
this in your requirements. If you are interested I can send you a MSD Audit
checklist that is based on the latest IPC/JEDEC J-STD-033 : Standard for
Handling, Packing, Shipping and Use of Moisture/Reflow Sensitive Surface
Mount Devices, May 1999. The Audit checklist is a free download from the MSD
knowledge base on our web site : www.cogiscan.com, click on Moisture
Sensitive Devices.
Francois Monette
Cogiscan Inc.
50 De Gaspe, Suite A5
Bromont, Quebec, Canada, J2L 2N8
Tel : (450)534-2644
Fax: (450)534-0092
www.cogiscan.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:09:14 EST
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
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Hi Jana,
Go to www.ipc.org, then click on Online Resources and Databases, then scroll
all the way down to IPC Documents Available for Download and click on that.
You will find:
IPC-1710 OEM
Standard for Printed Board Manufacturers' Qualification Profile
Developed by the OEM council of the IPC, the MQP sets the standard for
assessing PWB manufacturers capabilities and allows PWB manufacturers to
more
easily satisfy customer requirements.
IPC-1720
Assembly Qualification Profile Developed by the OEM council of the IPC,
IPC-1720 categorized an electronic assembly manufacturer's capabilities and
supplies the OEM customer with detailed, substantive information.
IPC-1730A
Laminator Qualifier Profile
Are you a laminate manufacturer looking to provide your customers with a
consistent, detailed report on your facility(s)? IPC-1730A is the one tool
laminate manufacturers can use to provide current and potential customers
with a profile of their facilities. By completing this questionnaire,
laminators can provide information on materials supplied, approvals and
certifications, testing available, equipment capabilities and more!
IPC-1731
Strategic Raw Materials Supplier Qualification Profile (SRMSQP)
Suppliers of raw materials to laminate manufacture now have an industry
approved questionaire to supply current and potential customers with a self
assessment of their facility(s). IPC-1731 gives suppliers of raw materials
the opportunity to create a profile of their manufacturing facility(s) that
will be consistent with those developed by similar suppliers. Using the MS
Word template enables easy creation and maintenance of the file(s) and
provide their customers with an electronic file for their records.
-Steve Gregory-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:10:29 -0800
From: "Jana L. Carraway" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
Greetings All,
I have in the back of my mind, a dusty place indeed, that IPC had a document
containing Supplier Audit guidelines. I have surfed the IPC site and do not
find such a document in the Technical Publications pdf. Does IPC have
something like this, or ... I'm losing it!
Thanks for the help,
Jana Carraway
Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:15:15 -0000
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Fenner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Don't know directly but can offer the following as pointers in a search
which might help.
Alumina filled "polysulphide", sounds like a thermal management compound or
a high (for polymer) temp withstand product
So I would go to the people that make thermally conductive adhesives and
thermal management compounds,
Coutaulds were big on polysulphides [like Dow on silicones]. Don't know if
Courtaulds are still Courtaulds, but a quick google on polysulphide
Courtaulds and thermal didn't produce, but maybe I should have used an f in
sulphide.
Best regards
Mike Fenner
Applications Engineer, European Operations
Indium Corporation
T: + 44 1908 580 400
M: + 44 7810 526 317
F: + 44 1908 580 411
E: [log in to unmask]
W: www.indium.com
Leadfree: http://Pb-Free.com
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stephen R. Gregory
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 2:26 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
Hi All!!
...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance!
hehehe)
I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I could
find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class A-2,
with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...
This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's using
this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are installed
on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about polysulfide
compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under MIL-S-8802, I find
all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but still nothing
alumina filled...
Any help will be much appreciated
-Steve Gregory-
------=_NextPart_000_004C_01C184B2.22B64420
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charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial><SPAN =
class=3D606265914-14122001>Don't know=20
directly but can offer the following as pointers in a search which might =
help.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial><SPAN =
class=3D606265914-14122001>Alumina=20
filled "polysulphide", sounds like a thermal management compound or a =
high (for=20
polymer) temp withstand product</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial><SPAN =
class=3D606265914-14122001>So I would go=20
to the people that make thermally conductive adhesives and thermal =
management=20
compounds, </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial><SPAN =
class=3D606265914-14122001>Coutaulds=20
were big on polysulphides [like Dow on silicones]. Don't know if =
Courtaulds are=20
still Courtaulds, but a quick google on polysulphide =
Courtaulds and=20
thermal didn't produce, but maybe I should have used an f in=20
sulphide.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<P><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial>Best regards</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial>Mike Fenner</FONT> <BR><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial>Applications Engineer, European Operations</FONT> =
<BR><B><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial>Indium Corporation</FONT></B> <BR><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial> T: + 44 1908 580 400</FONT> <BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial>M: + 44 7810 526 317</FONT> <BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial> F: + 44 1908 580 411</FONT> <BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial> E: [log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial>W: www.indium.com<BR>Leadfree:<U> <A =
href=3D"http://pb-free.com/"=20
target=3D_blank>http://Pb-Free.com</A></U> </FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Stephen R. =
Gregory<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Friday, December 14, 2001 2:26 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide=20
compound...<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2>Hi=20
All!! <BR><BR>...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's =
Friday=20
dance! hehehe) <BR><BR>I was wondering if someone could point me in a=20
direction where I could find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, =
per=20
MIL-S-8802, class A-2, with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum =
oxide=20
powder... <BR><BR>This is something that is called out on a drawing =
for a=20
board that's using this material to strain relief two small battery =
cables=20
that are installed on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of =
stuff=20
about polysulfide compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search =
under=20
MIL-S-8802, I find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel =
tanks, but=20
still nothing alumina filled... <BR><BR>Any help will be much =
appreciated=20
<BR><BR>-Steve Gregory- <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:33:41 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Rick Howieson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
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1710 is more of a supplier profile and not an audit guideline. It will give
you an idea of what a board shop can accomplish compared to your design but
does not get into how a fabricator controls their process.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen R. Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:09 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
Hi Jana,
Go to www.ipc.org, then click on Online Resources and Databases, then scroll
all the way down to IPC Documents Available for Download and click on that.
You will find:
IPC-1710 OEM
Standard for Printed Board Manufacturers' Qualification Profile
Developed by the OEM council of the IPC, the MQP sets the standard for
assessing PWB manufacturers capabilities and allows PWB manufacturers to
more easily satisfy customer requirements.
IPC-1720
Assembly Qualification Profile Developed by the OEM council of the IPC,
IPC-1720 categorized an electronic assembly manufacturer's capabilities and
supplies the OEM customer with detailed, substantive information.
IPC-1730A
Laminator Qualifier Profile
Are you a laminate manufacturer looking to provide your customers with a
consistent, detailed report on your facility(s)? IPC-1730A is the one tool
laminate manufacturers can use to provide current and potential customers
with a profile of their facilities. By completing this questionnaire,
laminators can provide information on materials supplied, approvals and
certifications, testing available, equipment capabilities and more!
IPC-1731
Strategic Raw Materials Supplier Qualification Profile (SRMSQP)
Suppliers of raw materials to laminate manufacture now have an industry
approved questionaire to supply current and potential customers with a self
assessment of their facility(s). IPC-1731 gives suppliers of raw materials
the opportunity to create a profile of their manufacturing facility(s) that
will be consistent with those developed by similar suppliers. Using the MS
Word template enables easy creation and maintenance of the file(s) and
provide their customers with an electronic file for their records.
-Steve Gregory-
Greetings All,
I have in the back of my mind, a dusty place indeed, that IPC had a document
containing Supplier Audit guidelines. I have surfed the IPC site and do not
find such a document in the Technical Publications pdf. Does IPC have
something like this, or ... I'm losing it!
Thanks for the help,
Jana Carraway
Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=160264115-14122001>1710
is more of a supplier profile and not an audit guideline. It will give you an
idea of what a board shop can accomplish compared to your design but does not
get into how a fabricator controls their process.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=160264115-14122001>Rick</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV align=left class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Stephen R. Gregory
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:09
PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] IPC Supplier
Audit Guidelines<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT
size=2>Hi Jana, <BR><BR>Go to www.ipc.org, then click on Online Resources and
Databases, then scroll all the way down to IPC Documents Available for
Download and click on that. <BR><BR>You will find: <BR><BR>IPC-1710 OEM
<BR>Standard for Printed Board Manufacturers' Qualification Profile
<BR><BR>Developed by the OEM council of the IPC, the MQP sets the standard for
assessing PWB manufacturers capabilities and allows PWB manufacturers to more
easily satisfy customer requirements. <BR><BR>IPC-1720 <BR>Assembly
Qualification Profile Developed by the OEM council of the IPC, IPC-1720
categorized an electronic assembly manufacturer's capabilities and supplies
the OEM customer with detailed, substantive information. <BR><BR>IPC-1730A
<BR>Laminator Qualifier Profile <BR>Are you a laminate manufacturer looking to
provide your customers with a consistent, detailed report on your facility(s)?
IPC-1730A is the one tool laminate manufacturers can use to provide current
and potential customers with a profile of their facilities. By completing this
questionnaire, laminators can provide information on materials supplied,
approvals and certifications, testing available, equipment capabilities and
more! <BR><BR>IPC-1731 <BR>Strategic Raw Materials Supplier Qualification
Profile (SRMSQP) <BR>Suppliers of raw materials to laminate manufacture now
have an industry approved questionaire to supply current and potential
customers with a self assessment of their facility(s). IPC-1731 gives
suppliers of raw materials the opportunity to create a profile of their
manufacturing facility(s) that will be consistent with those developed by
similar suppliers. Using the MS Word template enables easy creation and
maintenance of the file(s) and provide their customers with an electronic file
for their records. <BR><BR>-Steve Gregory- <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"
TYPE="CITE">Greetings All, <BR><BR>I have in the back of my mind, a dusty
place indeed, that IPC had a document <BR>containing Supplier Audit
guidelines. I have surfed the IPC site and do not <BR>find such a
document in the Technical Publications pdf. Does IPC have
<BR>something like this, or ... I'm losing it! <BR>Thanks for the help,
<BR>Jana Carraway <BR>Micro Systems Engineering, Inc. <BR></FONT><FONT
color=#000000 face=Arial lang=0 size=3
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial
lang=0 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:27:33 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Barmuta, Mike" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Steve:
Take a look at MIL-S-8516 Sealing Compound, Polysulfide Rubber, Electrical
Connectors and Electrical Systems, Chemically Cured. I think this is more in
line with what you are doing than 8802.
Polysulfde compounds have been around a long time, however for electrical
applications I think most have been replaced by urethanes and silicones.
Good Luck !
Michael Barmuta
Staff Engineer
Fluke Corp.
Everett WA
425-446-6076
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen R. Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
Hi All!!
...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance! hehehe)
I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I could find
some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class A-2, with 50
plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...
This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's using
this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are installed
on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about polysulfide
compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under MIL-S-8802, I find
all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but still nothing
alumina filled...
Any help will be much appreciated
-Steve Gregory-
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:30:16 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Gregg Klawson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
X-To: [log in to unmask]
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
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Hi Steve,
You can always buy the alumina powder and polysulfide compound separately
and mix 'em together. I've seen this done successfully with various
adhesive materials, not sure if we ever did it with a polysulfide though.
Good luck,
Gregg
At 09:26 AM 12/14/01, Stephen R. Gregory wrote:
>Hi All!!
>
>...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance! hehehe)
>
>I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I could
>find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class A-2,
>with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...
>
>This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's using
>this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are installed
>on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about polysulfide
>compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under MIL-S-8802, I
>find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but still
>nothing alumina filled...
>
>Any help will be much appreciated
>
>-Steve Gregory-
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:56:31 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: EPA TRI reporting of lead usage
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This topic (lead usage and disposal reporting) got bounced around
several months ago. I know the IPC has spoken to the go'ment about the
ramifications this ruling brings and it is my understanding that the
feds turned a deaf ear to them. So, to that end, has anyone attempted
to figure out what we (as small OEMs building electronic devices that
include circuit boards) are supposed to submit to the feds in the way of
reporting? I've attempted to wade through the EPA documents and wish
there was a "Cliff Notes" version so I can figure out what we are
supposed to do without having to hire an expensive consultant.
Have I just opened a can of worms?
Phil Nutting
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:58:18 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Karla Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: photoplotters
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks for the replies.
Anyone have an EIE plotter? Specifically the RP200 line?
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hargreaves [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 04:28
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: photoplotters
Hi Karla,
We currently have a 3-4 year old CSI (guess it's Gretag now) plotter. We're
happy with the images, speed and up-time.
Regards,
Mark Hargreaves
EMDS
-----Original Message-----
From: Karla Thompson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] photoplotters
I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate
any
input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco
Crescent
30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you
have any
comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.
Karla Thompson
CAM Technician
Electronic Controls Design, Inc
Tel: (503) 829-9108
email: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:45:47 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brock Hunter <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Dynamic & Proto Circuits
Subject: Re: photoplotters
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Karla,
We have an EIE RP-508 and have only been down once in the past 14 months. Overall we are quite
pleased with it. Initially it was intended to supplement our CSI FIRE 9300 and quickly took
over all the work, typically 130 - 150 plots ( 24 X 30 ) per day.
Cheers,
Brock
Karla Thompson wrote:
> Thanks for the replies.
> Anyone have an EIE plotter? Specifically the RP200 line?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Hargreaves [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 04:28
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: photoplotters
>
> Hi Karla,
> We currently have a 3-4 year old CSI (guess it's Gretag now) plotter. We're
> happy with the images, speed and up-time.
>
> Regards,
> Mark Hargreaves
> EMDS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karla Thompson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:28 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] photoplotters
>
> I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate
> any
> input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco
> Crescent
> 30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you
> have any
> comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.
>
> Karla Thompson
> CAM Technician
> Electronic Controls Design, Inc
> Tel: (503) 829-9108
> email: [log in to unmask]
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
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> Databases > E-mail Archives
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> additional
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> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
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> E-mail Archives
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>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Brock Hunter [log in to unmask]
Engineering Mgr.
Dynamic & Proto Circuits
TEL (905) 643-9900
FAX (905) 643-9437
http://www.dapc.com
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:56:32 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jeff Seeger <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Applied CAD Knowledge Inc
Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
MIME-Version: 1.0
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"d. terstegge" wrote:
>
> snip <
> How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions on how to make an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about easier ways to order a stencil according to my spec ?
Wouldn't this be handled best in design? That way it can
be a part of the footprint and happen "by itself".
Most of the dense boards I've seen lately are very difficult
to determine which pads relate to each other with any degree
of certainty. Silkscreens are so compromised as to not be
reliable indicators.
Just a thought,
--
Jeff Seeger Applied CAD Knowledge Inc
Chief Technical Officer Tyngsboro, MA 01879
jseeger "at" appliedcad "dot" com 978 649 9800
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:17:25 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Charles Caswell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:38:40 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Charles,
Sorry, but I didn't understand a word you said...
-Steve Gregory-
In a message dated 12/14/01 1:17:12 PM Central Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Charles,
<BR>
<BR>Sorry, but I didn't understand a word you said...
<BR>
<BR>-Steve Gregory-
<BR>
<BR>In a message dated 12/14/01 1:17:12 PM Central Standard Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR>
<BR>
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<BR></FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:24:28 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
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I agree, but for subcontracting that's a situation that I can only dream =
of. The reality is that you get Gerber data (one to one with the pads) =
that you need to edit yourself, or you need to make clear instructions =
for the company that makes the stencils so they can do the =
Gerber-editing.
Daan Terstegge
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jeff Seeger=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to use them
"d. terstegge" wrote:
>
> snip <
> How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions on how to =
make an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about easier ways to =
order a stencil according to my spec ?
Wouldn't this be handled best in design? That way it can
be a part of the footprint and happen "by itself".
Most of the dense boards I've seen lately are very difficult
to determine which pads relate to each other with any degree
of certainty. Silkscreens are so compromised as to not be
reliable indicators.
Just a thought,
--
Jeff Seeger Applied CAD Knowledge Inc
Chief Technical Officer Tyngsboro, MA 01879
jseeger "at" appliedcad "dot" com 978 649 9800
=
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in
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"MS Sans Serif" size=3D4>I agree, but for =
subcontracting=20
that's a situation that I can only dream of. The reality is that =
you get=20
Gerber data (one to one with the pads) that you need to edit yourself, =
or you=20
need to make clear instructions for the company that makes the stencils =
so they=20
can do the Gerber-editing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"MS Sans Serif" size=3D4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"MS Sans Serif" size=3D4>Daan Terstegge</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Jeff=20
Seeger</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask]
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 14, 2001 =
6:56=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Homeplate =
apertures,=20
how to use them</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>"d. terstegge" wrote:<BR>><BR>> snip <<BR>> =
How do=20
others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions on how to make =
an=20
easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about easier ways to =
order a=20
stencil according to my spec=20
?<BR><BR><BR> Wouldn't this =
be=20
handled best in design? That way it=20
can<BR> be a part of the =
footprint=20
and happen "by =
itself".<BR><BR> Most=20
of the dense boards I've seen lately are very=20
difficult<BR> to determine =
which=20
pads relate to each other with any=20
degree<BR> of =
certainty. =20
Silkscreens are so compromised as to not=20
be<BR> reliable=20
indicators.<BR><BR> Just a=20
thought,<BR>--<BR><BR> Jeff=20
=
Seeger &=
nbsp; &n=
bsp;=20
Applied CAD Knowledge Inc<BR> Chief =
Technical=20
=
Officer =
=20
Tyngsboro, MA 01879<BR> jseeger =
"at"=20
appliedcad "dot"=20
=
com &nbs=
p; =20
978 649=20
=
9800<BR><BR>-------------------------------------------------------------=
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Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<BR>To=20
unsubscribe, send a message to <A=20
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On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives<BR>Please visit =
IPC web=20
site (<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.=
htm</A>)=20
for additional<BR>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> or 847-509-9700=20
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ext.5315<BR>-------------------------------------------------------------=
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:46:45 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
X-To: "<Daan Terstegge>" <[log in to unmask]>
Some things you can do include editing Gerber (dumb xy data) or ODB++
(intellegent) data using a CAM package as Valor. This package, as an
example, provides clearly identifiable graphic information concerning pads,
with special features, and their locations. All this is provided you have
built in design rules as ERF's (external reference files).
Also, if the stencil maker is using a similar package it may easily
translate requirements into an AOI system. If so, AOI is an answer I've used
many times, when applicable. Don't know why this isn't done more. Asked this
group some time back but no responses.
MoonMan
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:04:03 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... What Did Charles Say?
X-To: [log in to unmask]
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Thanks Gary, Genny, and Dave!
I wonder why I got Charles email all garbled like that? I get those every
once in a while...I was attributing it before to the email being sent using a
foreign language character set, obviously that wasn't the case if all of you
could read it...strange stuff?
Thanks again, and thank you Charles!
-Steve Gregory-
P.S. Charles, I would appreciate it if you would send me the info you
have...next week would be fine, and most appreciated! Also, I don't think
we have the same customer...
In a message dated 12/14/01 2:19:37 PM Central Standard Time,
[log in to unmask],
[log in to unmask], and [log in to unmask] writes:
> From: "Charles Caswell" <<A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>>
> Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
> Date: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:28 AM
>
> Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same stuff
> to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find the stuff
> already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS fuel tank
> sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts of AlO2 and
> the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the same customer. I will
> try to get into work tommorow and send some info, if not then on Mon. By
> the way, the stuff stinks.
> Charles Caswell
>
--part1_147.65a01ae.294bc343_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Thanks Gary, Genny, and Dave!
<BR>
<BR>I wonder why I got Charles email all garbled like that? I get those every once in a while...I was attributing it before to the email being sent using a foreign language character set, obviously that wasn't the case if all of you could read it...strange stuff?
<BR>
<BR>Thanks again, and thank you Charles!
<BR>
<BR>-Steve Gregory-
<BR>
<BR>P.S. Charles, I would appreciate it if you would send me the info you have...next week would be fine, and most appreciated! Also, I don't think we have the same customer...
<BR>
<BR>In a message dated 12/14/01 2:19:37 PM Central Standard Time, [log in to unmask],
<BR><I>[log in to unmask], and [log in to unmask] </I> writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">From: "Charles Caswell" <<A HREF="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>>
<BR>Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
<BR>Date: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:28 AM
<BR>
<BR>Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find the stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS fuel tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts of AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the same customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some info, if not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.
<BR>Charles Caswell
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:09:32 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
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We do not routinely use homeplate apertures. We only use homeplate
apertures in cases where we need to reduce solder balling when using NC
fluxed pastes.
What is your goal in using this aperture shape?
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----
From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:05 AM
Subject: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to use them
> Dear Technetters,
>
> For our stencils I have recently introduced the homeplate design for the
apertures of chipcomponents larger than 1206.
> But now a problem occurs with the guys who have to order the stencils: it
takes a lot of time, by using Gerber data, partslist and assembly drawing to
figure out which components are 1206, 1210, 1812. For a coil or tantalumcaps
with such a footprint I don't want a homeplate aperture because these parts
need a little more solder.
> So we end up with a nice specification, but very unpractical for the
production engineers.
>
> How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions on how to make
an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about easier ways to order a
stencil according to my spec ?
> Should I keep it simple and say "use homeplate-apertures for all
footprints larger than 1.5 * 1.5 mm ?"
>
> Daan Terstegge
> SMT Centre
> Thales Communications
> Unclassified mail
> Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:23:29 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Small PCBs in wash
Hi Mark
We use a wire mesh baskets for most of our smaller boards. For our smallest
boards we have installed a high temp nylon screen (don't know the name)
with tie wraps. The mesh has holes about 1mm sq with about 0.5mm spacing
between holes ( yes it is small but it works great). The top of the basket
has a larger diameter (about 1cm sq) mesh placed on top of the boards but
not fastened down ( this helps hold the boards in place).
We don't get any damaged due to bd-bd impacts or scratches ect from bds
flying around the basket.
We use a Speedline Aquastorm 200 from Electrovert. It will blow parts of
the board if the operator is not carefull.
Good Luck
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:08:50 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ken Patel <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: interWAVE Communications, Inc.
Subject: Re: Flux Controls
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I think there is a typo. QA should be OA (Organic Acids) based flux, very strong. Need very
good control in storage and while using on the board. If left on the board, it will eat away
the boards slowly.
Color coding is the best option. Don't allow flux chemistry to get mixed. People will love OA
flux and you may find some operators want to use OA instead of RMA as OA flux allows fast
wetting because of the better cleaning of the surface. Thorough cleaning should be mandatory
preferably in the washer than using a DI water & a brush.
re,
Ken Patel
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> Hello Technetters
>
> I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand
> soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am
> concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the right
> flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Phil Belliveau
>
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> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:11:20 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Rick Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Ventura Electronics Assembly
Subject: Re: EPA TRI reporting of lead usage
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Phil,
I recently finished participating in a beta test of a software program
that the EPA will have available sometime in the spring of 2002 for use
in completing the form R/As due July 1, 2002. The software is called
TRI-ME (Toxic Release Inventory - Made Easy) Version 2. Current plans
are for this to be completed in January 2002 and available sometime
after that. I don't know specifics of when/where it will be made
available but I believe it will be posted on the EPA web site.
Rick Thompson
Ventura Electronics Assembly
2655 Park Center Dr.
Simi Valley, CA 93065
+1 (805) 584-9858 x-304 voice
+1 (805) 584-1529 fax
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Phil Nutting
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:57 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] EPA TRI reporting of lead usage
This topic (lead usage and disposal reporting) got bounced around
several months ago. I know the IPC has spoken to the go'ment about the
ramifications this ruling brings and it is my understanding that the
feds turned a deaf ear to them. So, to that end, has anyone attempted
to figure out what we (as small OEMs building electronic devices that
include circuit boards) are supposed to submit to the feds in the way of
reporting? I've attempted to wade through the EPA documents and wish
there was a "Cliff Notes" version so I can figure out what we are
supposed to do without having to hire an expensive consultant.
Have I just opened a can of worms?
Phil Nutting
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:38:29 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The sulphur content probably is the source or the 'smell'... like =
rotten
eggs.
- Bill Brooks
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Caswell [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:17 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same
stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find =
the
stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS fuel
tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts of
AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the same
customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some info, if
not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.
Charles Caswell
Process Lead, PCB
Frontier Electronic Systems
-----Original Message-----=20
From: Stephen R. Gregory=20
Sent: Fri 12/14/2001 8:26 AM=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc:=20
Subject: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
=09
=09
Hi All!!=20
=09
...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday
dance! hehehe)=20
=09
I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I
could find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802,
class A-2, with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder... =
=09
This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board
that's using this material to strain relief two small battery cables
that are installed on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of
stuff about polysulfide compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I
search under MIL-S-8802, I find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for =
jet
fuel tanks, but still nothing alumina filled...=20
=09
Any help will be much appreciated=20
=09
-Steve Gregory-=20
=09
M!=EA=AD=9DLj)Ki=D8=AEu=E9=BE=81Zy=ED=89=AA=1Ey<+=E0=B0=ACx
!$=11=15u=E1=B0=AD=14{.n+=E1=B0=89zwZ,j=07=EB=AD=A0=12M!=11T9=11=E8=A4=B0=
_=E0=AC=A2Yh)=E7=89=BCm{ax=13=E5=B4=83`=D3=93=17r=ED=86=8FzWR
cN=14T=EE=AC=B3r=19=DE=B5:-zjh(Z=CB=96^=E6=90=96+=DE=AF*=1FM!=E8=8E=9Dlz=
wm=07Z0x&z=1A=E0=A6=81M7=E2=B2=9Cw4 =E0=B4=9Ej!-x,j0=ED=83=94*\=0Ey=17
z=DA=B1=04=EF=99=A8=02!>W=ED=9A=B1
+H<,=1En=C8=ADz=1Bm=08=EC=B5=A9r=1Bf=07=E9=A1=B6g=E8=AD=A7]=D8=A8b+bz+r=E2=
=90=89i=E8=92=89Jy!I=1Aj=E4=B0=83=1A((
+=C3=8E=13{G=E8=A1=B1
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:45:32 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Dave,
The goal is elimination of solder beads (the balls at the sides of =
chipcomponents). At present we're cleaning all our boards, which removes =
99% of the solderbeads, but we want to anticipate on a no-clean process =
that we may introduce in the future. From previous Technet discussions I =
learned that the homeplate design is very effective in removing solder =
beads. Maybe I should also try some alternatives, but the question =
remains how to make an easy to use specification (to the stencil =
supplier, or to our production engineers who orders the stencil) as to =
what apertures should be changed to homeplate, and what apertures should =
be left untouched (or should be changed in another way).=20
Daan Terstegge
www.smtinfo.net
----- Original Message -----=20
From: David Fish=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to use them
We do not routinely use homeplate apertures. We only use homeplate
apertures in cases where we need to reduce solder balling when using =
NC
fluxed pastes.
What is your goal in using this aperture shape?
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----
From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:05 AM
Subject: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to use them
> Dear Technetters,
>
> For our stencils I have recently introduced the homeplate design for =
the
apertures of chipcomponents larger than 1206.
> But now a problem occurs with the guys who have to order the =
stencils: it
takes a lot of time, by using Gerber data, partslist and assembly =
drawing to
figure out which components are 1206, 1210, 1812. For a coil or =
tantalumcaps
with such a footprint I don't want a homeplate aperture because these =
parts
need a little more solder.
> So we end up with a nice specification, but very unpractical for the
production engineers.
>
> How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions on how to =
make
an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about easier ways to order =
a
stencil according to my spec ?
> Should I keep it simple and say "use homeplate-apertures for all
footprints larger than 1.5 * 1.5 mm ?"
>
> Daan Terstegge
> SMT Centre
> Thales Communications
> Unclassified mail
> Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net
>
> =
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E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
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> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or =
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ext.5315
> =
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=
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Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Dave,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The goal is elimination of solder beads =
(the balls=20
at the sides of chipcomponents). At present we're cleaning all our =
boards, which=20
removes 99% of the solderbeads, but we want to anticipate on a no-clean =
process=20
that we may introduce in the future. From previous Technet discussions I =
learned=20
that the homeplate design is very effective in removing solder =
beads. Maybe=20
I should also try some alternatives, but the question remains =
how to make=20
an easy to use specification (to the stencil supplier, or to our =
production=20
engineers who orders the stencil) as to what apertures should be =
changed to=20
homeplate, and what apertures should be left untouched (or should be =
changed in=20
another way). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Daan Terstegge</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net">www.smtinfo.net</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">David =
Fish</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask]
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 15, =
2001 1:09=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Homeplate =
apertures,=20
how to use them</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>We do not routinely =
use=20
homeplate apertures. We only use homeplate<BR>apertures in cases =
where=20
we need to reduce solder balling when using NC<BR>fluxed =
pastes.<BR><BR>What=20
is your goal in using this aperture shape?<BR><BR>Dave Fish<BR>----- =
Original=20
Message -----<BR>From: "d. terstegge" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
SGROUP.COM</A>><BR>To:=20
<<A =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>><BR>Sent: Friday, =
December 14, 2001 6:05 AM<BR>Subject: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to =
use=20
them<BR><BR><BR>> Dear Technetters,<BR>><BR>> For our =
stencils I have=20
recently introduced the homeplate design for the<BR>apertures of=20
chipcomponents larger than 1206.<BR>> But now a problem occurs with =
the=20
guys who have to order the stencils: it<BR>takes a lot of time, by =
using=20
Gerber data, partslist and assembly drawing to<BR>figure out which =
components=20
are 1206, 1210, 1812. For a coil or tantalumcaps<BR>with such a =
footprint I=20
don't want a homeplate aperture because these parts<BR>need a little =
more=20
solder.<BR>> So we end up with a nice specification, but very =
unpractical=20
for the<BR>production engineers.<BR>><BR>> How do others deal =
with this=20
? Mabe you have suggestions on how to make<BR>an easier-to-use=20
specification ? Or ideas about easier ways to order a<BR>stencil =
according to my spec ?<BR>> Should I keep it simple and say "use=20
homeplate-apertures for all<BR>footprints larger than 1.5 * 1.5 mm=20
?"<BR>><BR>> Daan Terstegge<BR>> SMT Centre<BR>> Thales=20
Communications<BR>> Unclassified mail<BR>> Personal Website: <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net">http://www.smtinfo.net</A><BR>><BR>>=
;=20
=
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Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV=20
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To=20
temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:=20
SET<BR>Technet NOMAIL<BR>> Search previous postings at: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ipc.org">www.ipc.org</A> > On-Line Resources =
&=20
Databases ><BR>E-mail Archives<BR>> Please visit IPC web site =
(<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.=
htm</A>)=20
for<BR>additional<BR>> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at <A =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> or=20
847-509-9700<BR>ext.5315<BR>>=20
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Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<BR>To=20
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:40:22 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [tn] what's up?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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testing...testing...testing...why aren't things being posted?
testing...testing...
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:01:08 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Oh wonderful!!
I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon in production!
Almost had a mutiny when we had to use terpene to clean boards because of a
customer requirement...(I kinda' like the smell of terpene in the
mornin'....smells like...smells like victory!...errrr, I mean like Tang!
hehehe)
Off to search for some fume exhausting booths to do this, and figure out how
we're gonna' exhaust this stuff while it cures...can't deal with rotten egg
smell, that's for sure!
-Steve Gregory-
> The sulphur content probably is the source or the 'smell'... like rotten
> eggs.
> - Bill Brooks
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Caswell [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:17 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>
>
> Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same
> stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find the
> stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS fuel
> tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts of
> AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the same
> customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some info, if
> not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.
> Charles Caswell
> Process Lead, PCB
> Frontier Electronic Systems
>
--part1_178.cfb88f.294bfad4_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Oh wonderful!! <BR>
<BR>
I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon in production! <BR>
<BR>
Almost had a mutiny when we had to use terpene to clean boards because of a customer requirement...(I kinda' like the smell of terpene in the mornin'....smells like...smells like victory!...errrr, I mean like Tang! hehehe)<BR>
<BR>
Off to search for some fume exhausting booths to do this, and figure out how we're gonna' exhaust this stuff while it cures...can't deal with rotten egg smell, that's for sure!<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The sulphur content probably is the source or the 'smell'... like rotten<BR>
eggs.<BR>
- Bill Brooks<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Charles Caswell [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:17 AM<BR>
To: [log in to unmask]<BR>
Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same<BR>
stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find the<BR>
stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS fuel<BR>
tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts of<BR>
AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the same<BR>
customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some info, if<BR>
not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.<BR>
Charles Caswell<BR>
Process Lead, PCB<BR>
Frontier Electronic Systems<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_178.cfb88f.294bfad4_boundary--
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:19:21 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Oh wonderful!!
I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon in production!
Almost had a mutiny when we had to use terpene to clean boards because of a
customer requirement...(I kinda' like the smell of terpene in the
mornin'....smells like...smells like victory!...errrr, I mean like Tang!
hehehe)
Off to search for some fume exhausting booths to do this, and figure out how
we're gonna' exhaust this stuff while it cures...can't deal with rotten egg
smell, that's for sure!
-Steve Gregory-
> The sulphur content probably is the source or the 'smell'... like rotten
> eggs.
> - Bill Brooks
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Caswell [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:17 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>
>
> Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same
> stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find the
> stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS fuel
> tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts of
> AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the same
> customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some info, if
> not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.
> Charles Caswell
> Process Lead, PCB
> Frontier Electronic Systems
>
--part1_129.94d14e9.294bf109_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Oh wonderful!! <BR>
<BR>
I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon in production! <BR>
<BR>
Almost had a mutiny when we had to use terpene to clean boards because of a customer requirement...(I kinda' like the smell of terpene in the mornin'....smells like...smells like victory!...errrr, I mean like Tang! hehehe)<BR>
<BR>
Off to search for some fume exhausting booths to do this, and figure out how we're gonna' exhaust this stuff while it cures...can't deal with rotten egg smell, that's for sure!<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The sulphur content probably is the source or the 'smell'... like rotten<BR>
eggs.<BR>
- Bill Brooks<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Charles Caswell [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:17 AM<BR>
To: [log in to unmask]<BR>
Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same<BR>
stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find the<BR>
stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS fuel<BR>
tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts of<BR>
AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the same<BR>
customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some info, if<BR>
not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.<BR>
Charles Caswell<BR>
Process Lead, PCB<BR>
Frontier Electronic Systems<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_129.94d14e9.294bf109_boundary--
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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:26:31 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [tn] what's up? Servers backup, that's what's up
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Had it plastered all over web site(s) but forgot to msg out to the forums =
that we were off-line Fri eve until Sat eve due to annual building primary =
power preventive maintenance. All postings should eventually get posted as =
they come in from our ISP ques. Jack
>>> [log in to unmask] 12/14/01 08:40PM >>>
testing...testing...testing...why aren't things being posted?
testing...testing...
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Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:27:06 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Adam Seychell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: tin compatalbe etchants
What are the known etchants useful for boards made with electroplated tin
etch resists ? We have been using alkaline sulfate based etchant which works
very well, even with a 1 um bright tin plating thickness. Ammonium
persulfate etchant was shown to attack tin.
Also are there any advantages of stripping the tin when no solder mask will
be used ?
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Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:33:28 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Afri Singh <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: photoplotters
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
have you had a chance to look at the Mivatec (Germany) ?
Their rep in USA is 480 777 7600
-----Original Message-----
From: Karla Thompson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:58 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] photoplotters
Thanks for the replies.
Anyone have an EIE plotter? Specifically the RP200 line?
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hargreaves [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 04:28
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: photoplotters
Hi Karla,
We currently have a 3-4 year old CSI (guess it's Gretag now) plotter. We're
happy with the images, speed and up-time.
Regards,
Mark Hargreaves
EMDS
-----Original Message-----
From: Karla Thompson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] photoplotters
I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate
any
input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco
Crescent
30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you
have any
comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.
Karla Thompson
CAM Technician
Electronic Controls Design, Inc
Tel: (503) 829-9108
email: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:16:46 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: tin compatalbe etchants
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Adam: Please see below...
> What are the known etchants useful for boards made with electroplated tin
> etch resists ? We have been using alkaline sulfate based etchant which
works
> very well, even with a 1 um bright tin plating thickness.
Uh, Adam, you are probably using the best etchant known for Tin, and getting
away with thinner Tin than anyone using any other etchant. The only other
etchant suitable for use with Tin is a variant on what you are currently
using, and it is based on ammonium chloride....and most people in the world
use this one, and most people using this etchant need 5-6 um of Tin.
Why do you want to change?
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:12:58 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Atkinson, Neil" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Flux Controls
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Some really good suggestions from everybody on this one, the only thing that
I would add is to try and standardise on one flux - I know it sounds obvious
but if the new customer is insisting on a different flux, is it possible to
move to this new flux for all other customers?
I know sometimes this is not easy but I assume your new customer is
insisting on a specific flux based on test work he has done - maybe other
customers could be persuaded to use their test work as part of their own
approval process, particularly if you sell it to them the right way (i.e.
persuade them you are saving them time and money!!).
Just a thought...
Neil
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 14 December 2001 13:05
Subject: Flux Controls
Hello Technetters
I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand
soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am
concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the right
flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.
Thanks in advance.
Phil Belliveau
_____________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:48:27 -0000
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Fenner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... What Did Charles
Say?
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C186D7.98FC5990"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C186D7.98FC5990
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The garbling might be something to do with you being on AOL, their
proprietary software software handles emails, attachments, compressed files
and so on differently and sometimes falls over.
Best regards
Mike Fenner
Applications Engineer, European Operations
Indium Corporation
T: + 44 1908 580 400
M: + 44 7810 526 317
F: + 44 1908 580 411
E: [log in to unmask]
W: www.indium.com
Leadfree: http://Pb-Free.com
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stephen R. Gregory
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:04 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... What Did Charles
Say?
Thanks Gary, Genny, and Dave!
I wonder why I got Charles email all garbled like that? I get those every
once in a while...I was attributing it before to the email being sent using
a foreign language character set, obviously that wasn't the case if all of
you could read it...strange stuff?
Thanks again, and thank you Charles!
-Steve Gregory-
P.S. Charles, I would appreciate it if you would send me the info you
have...next week would be fine, and most appreciated! Also, I don't think
we have the same customer...
In a message dated 12/14/01 2:19:37 PM Central Standard Time,
[log in to unmask],
[log in to unmask], and [log in to unmask] writes:
From: "Charles Caswell" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
Date: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:28 AM
Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same
stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find the
stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS fuel tank
sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts of AlO2 and the
base material by weight. I wonder if we have the same customer. I will try
to get into work tommorow and send some info, if not then on Mon. By the
way, the stuff stinks.
Charles Caswell
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C186D7.98FC5990
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN =
class=3D194503908-17122001>The=20
garbling might be something to do with you being on AOL, their =
proprietary=20
software software handles emails, attachments, compressed files and so =
on=20
differently and some</SPAN><SPAN class=3D194503908-17122001>times falls =
over.=20
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D194503908-17122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D194503908-17122001></SPAN>Best regards</FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<P><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial>Mike Fenner</FONT> <BR><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial>Applications Engineer, European Operations</FONT> =
<BR><B><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial>Indium Corporation</FONT></B> <BR><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial> T: + 44 1908 580 400</FONT> <BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial>M: + 44 7810 526 317</FONT> <BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial> F: + 44 1908 580 411</FONT> <BR><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial> E: [log in to unmask]</FONT> <BR><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial>W: www.indium.com<BR>Leadfree:<U> <A =
href=3D"http://pb-free.com/"=20
target=3D_blank>http://Pb-Free.com</A></U> </FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Stephen R. =
Gregory<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Friday, December 14, 2001 9:04 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide =
compound... What Did Charles Say?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT><FONT=20
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Thanks Gary, Genny, and Dave! =
<BR><BR>I=20
wonder why I got Charles email all garbled like that? I get those =
every once=20
in a while...I was attributing it before to the email being sent using =
a=20
foreign language character set, obviously that wasn't the case if all =
of you=20
could read it...strange stuff? <BR><BR>Thanks again, and thank you =
Charles!=20
<BR><BR>-Steve Gregory- <BR><BR>P.S. Charles, I would appreciate it if =
you=20
would send me the info you have...next week would be fine, =
and=20
most appreciated! Also, I don't think we have the same customer... =
<BR><BR>In=20
a message dated 12/14/01 2:19:37 PM Central Standard Time, =
[log in to unmask],=20
<BR><I>[log in to unmask], and [log in to unmask] </I>writes:=20
<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"=20
TYPE=3D"CITE">From: "Charles Caswell" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>> =
<BR>Subject:=20
Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide=20
compound... <BR>Date: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:28 AM =
<BR><BR>Steve, I am=20
at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same stuff to =
bond=20
components on some boards. I don't think you will find the stuff =
already=20
mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS fuel tank =
sealant. We=20
mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts of AlO2 and the =
base=20
material by weight. I wonder if we have the same customer. I =
will try=20
to get into work tommorow and send some info, if not then on Mon. By =
the=20
way, the stuff stinks. <BR>Charles Caswell <BR></FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000000=20
face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D3 =
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#000000 face=3DArial lang=3D0 size=3D2=20
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:13:12 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Flux Controls
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Thanks to all for your quick and helpful replies.
Doug/Ken
Your right it should have been OA
Phil Belliveau
Ken Patel
<[log in to unmask] To: [log in to unmask]
OM> cc:
Sent by: Subject: Re: [TN] Flux Controls
TechNet
<[log in to unmask]
ORG>
12/14/01
05:08 PM
Please
respond to
"TechNet
E-Mail
Forum."
I think there is a typo. QA should be OA (Organic Acids) based flux, very
strong. Need very
good control in storage and while using on the board. If left on the board,
it will eat away
the boards slowly.
Color coding is the best option. Don't allow flux chemistry to get mixed.
People will love OA
flux and you may find some operators want to use OA instead of RMA as OA
flux allows fast
wetting because of the better cleaning of the surface. Thorough cleaning
should be mandatory
preferably in the washer than using a DI water & a brush.
re,
Ken Patel
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> Hello Technetters
>
> I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand
> soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am
> concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the right
> flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Phil Belliveau
>
>
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> E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
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> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
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>
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:21:55 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Marc Cowen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Saponified Wash
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Hi All,
I am after some advice regarding saponified wash being used with a no-clean
process.
What is a saponified wash?
With regards to not using a wash with a no-clean process is it also common
practice to use this type of process flow (solder using no-clean flux then
through a saponified wash).
Thanks for your help.
Best regards
Marc Cowen.
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:37:12 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Saponified Wash
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Marc:
To answer the chemistry part of your question...
Back in the days, a long time ago, when rosin flux was the primary, if not
the only type of flux available, it was necessary to turn the rosin into a
soap to get it to dissolve in water based cleaners. This process of
producing a soap is labeled "saponification", and at its simplist, it merely
means treating an appropriate oil (like rosin, or a vegetable oil) with a
strong alkali, which converts it to a soap.
From what I know about no-wash types fluxes (which is not a lot), I suspect
that a saponifying type cleaner may be about the only type that will really
clean ALL of this type of flux residues from the surface....now it could be
asked what the necessity is to clean ALL the flux residues off, and wonder if
a superficial, appearance cleanliness would not be adequate.....but only you
can answer that.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:59:47 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Leo Lambert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Saponified Wash
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Hello Marc,
Saponified wash is a wash system using a "saponifier" or detergent in the
wash section of the aqueous cleaner. Typically the wash section is charged
with a certain percentage of detergent to help in the cleaning operation.
The following sections of the cleaner are to rinse off the residues from the
wash tank and subsequently dry the product.
The saponification system was design to wash off rosin fluxes from the
surface of the printed boards. The detergent was a saponifier as it
converted the rosin flux into a rosin soap which was then water soluble and
could be removed from the surfaces of the products. When water soluble
fluxes came into vogue, the aqueous cleaners were converted to cascading
rinses with consecutively cleaner water with a final rinse of DI water, the
dried.
Whether or not a saponified aqueous cleaner will remove the residues from a
Low solid content flux "NO Clean", is dependent upon the chemistry of the
flux and its chempatibility with the saponifier used in the cleaner. I
remember an old saying we used to use, you need to know what it is you are
removing before you can select the material to remove it with. This
definitely applies here and that information should or must be made
available to you through you flux manufacturer.
Hope this helps.
Good Luck
Leo Lambert
EPTAC Corp
WWW.EPTAC.COM
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Marc Cowen
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 7:22 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Saponified Wash
Hi All,
I am after some advice regarding saponified wash being used with a no-clean
process.
What is a saponified wash?
With regards to not using a wash with a no-clean process is it also common
practice to use this type of process flow (solder using no-clean flux then
through a saponified wash).
Thanks for your help.
Best regards
Marc Cowen.
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:02:43 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
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Dan,
We do not have a standard for applying home-plate apertures. =20
Dave
----- Original Message -----=20
From: D.Terstegge=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to use them
Hi Dave,
=20
The goal is elimination of solder beads (the balls at the sides of =
chipcomponents). At present we're cleaning all our boards, which removes =
99% of the solderbeads, but we want to anticipate on a no-clean process =
that we may introduce in the future. From previous Technet discussions I =
learned that the homeplate design is very effective in removing solder =
beads. Maybe I should also try some alternatives, but the question =
remains how to make an easy to use specification (to the stencil =
supplier, or to our production engineers who orders the stencil) as to =
what apertures should be changed to homeplate, and what apertures should =
be left untouched (or should be changed in another way).=20
=20
Daan Terstegge
www.smtinfo.net
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: David Fish=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to use them
We do not routinely use homeplate apertures. We only use homeplate
apertures in cases where we need to reduce solder balling when using =
NC
fluxed pastes.
What is your goal in using this aperture shape?
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----
From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:05 AM
Subject: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to use them
> Dear Technetters,
>
> For our stencils I have recently introduced the homeplate design =
for the
apertures of chipcomponents larger than 1206.
> But now a problem occurs with the guys who have to order the =
stencils: it
takes a lot of time, by using Gerber data, partslist and assembly =
drawing to
figure out which components are 1206, 1210, 1812. For a coil or =
tantalumcaps
with such a footprint I don't want a homeplate aperture because =
these parts
need a little more solder.
> So we end up with a nice specification, but very unpractical for =
the
production engineers.
>
> How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions on how =
to make
an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about easier ways to =
order a
stencil according to my spec ?
> Should I keep it simple and say "use homeplate-apertures for all
footprints larger than 1.5 * 1.5 mm ?"
>
> Daan Terstegge
> SMT Centre
> Thales Communications
> Unclassified mail
> Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net
>
> =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We do not have a standard for applying =
home-plate=20
apertures. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dave</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=20
[log in to unmask]>D.Terstegge</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=20
[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 14, 2001 =
2:45=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Homeplate =
apertures,=20
how to use them</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Dave,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The goal is elimination of solder =
beads (the=20
balls at the sides of chipcomponents). At present we're cleaning all =
our=20
boards, which removes 99% of the solderbeads, but we want to =
anticipate on a=20
no-clean process that we may introduce in the future. From previous =
Technet=20
discussions I learned that the homeplate design is very effective =
in=20
removing solder beads. Maybe I should also try some alternatives, but =
the=20
question remains how to make an easy to use specification (to the =
stencil=20
supplier, or to our production engineers who orders the =
stencil) as to=20
what apertures should be changed to homeplate, and what apertures =
should be=20
left untouched (or should be changed in another way). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Daan Terstegge</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net">www.smtinfo.net</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" [log in to unmask]>David =
Fish</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=20
[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 15, =
2001 1:09=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Homeplate =
apertures,=20
how to use them</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>We do not =
routinely use=20
homeplate apertures. We only use homeplate<BR>apertures in =
cases where=20
we need to reduce solder balling when using NC<BR>fluxed =
pastes.<BR><BR>What=20
is your goal in using this aperture shape?<BR><BR>Dave Fish<BR>----- =
Original Message -----<BR>From: "d. terstegge" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
SGROUP.COM</A>><BR>To:=20
<<A =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>><BR>Sent:=20
Friday, December 14, 2001 6:05 AM<BR>Subject: [TN] Homeplate =
apertures, how=20
to use them<BR><BR><BR>> Dear Technetters,<BR>><BR>> For =
our=20
stencils I have recently introduced the homeplate design for=20
the<BR>apertures of chipcomponents larger than 1206.<BR>> But now =
a=20
problem occurs with the guys who have to order the stencils: =
it<BR>takes a=20
lot of time, by using Gerber data, partslist and assembly drawing=20
to<BR>figure out which components are 1206, 1210, 1812. For a coil =
or=20
tantalumcaps<BR>with such a footprint I don't want a homeplate =
aperture=20
because these parts<BR>need a little more solder.<BR>> So we end =
up with=20
a nice specification, but very unpractical for the<BR>production=20
engineers.<BR>><BR>> How do others deal with this ? Mabe =
you=20
have suggestions on how to make<BR>an easier-to-use specification =
? Or=20
ideas about easier ways to order a<BR>stencil according to my spec =
?<BR>>=20
Should I keep it simple and say "use homeplate-apertures for=20
all<BR>footprints larger than 1.5 * 1.5 mm ?"<BR>><BR>> Daan=20
Terstegge<BR>> SMT Centre<BR>> Thales Communications<BR>>=20
Unclassified mail<BR>> Personal Website: <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net">http://www.smtinfo.net</A><BR>><BR>>=
;=20
=
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(<A=20
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:10:10 -0000
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Fenner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Saponified Wash
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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A saponified wash is a particular sort of semi aqueous cleaning process.
"Saponify" means to turn into soap. So what happens when you use a
saponifier is that the resins in your flux residue are chemically turned
into soap, which is water soluble and can be rinsed off, also any greases,
oils that might be around. Which may or may no be desirable. This is as
opposed to simply being dissolved, or emulsified or whatever.
Saponifiers are also alkaline so will handily neutralise any acid residues.
Saponifiers need to be rinsed off thoroughly as being chemically active they
can cause corrosion just the same as fluxes, actually worse.
Not all no clean fluxes will saponify, and some not completely, so you will
need to check with your flux/paste suppliers.
You might need to check to see if there are any issues arising out of
machine discharges to the drain as well, your saponifier tech support people
can tell you where to start on that.
So far as cleaning no cleans are concerned, most people don't of course, but
it is a known and reasonably common procedure, you are not the first in
other words.
Best regards
Mike Fenner
Applications Engineer, European Operations
Indium Corporation
T: + 44 1908 580 400
M: + 44 7810 526 317
F: + 44 1908 580 411
E: [log in to unmask]
W: www.indium.com
Leadfree: http://Pb-Free.com
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Marc Cowen
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:22 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Saponified Wash
Hi All,
I am after some advice regarding saponified wash being used with a no-clean
process.
What is a saponified wash?
With regards to not using a wash with a no-clean process is it also common
practice to use this type of process flow (solder using no-clean flux then
through a saponified wash).
Thanks for your help.
Best regards
Marc Cowen.
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:19:25 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Saponified Wash
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Marc,
I will second what Rudy and Leo have said. In my experience, you want to
either leave the low solids flux residues alone (i.e. totally no-clean) or
fully remove them. Partial cleaning (or doing a half-ass job of full
cleaning) will get you in lots of trouble.
At Rockwell, we are working on converting to low solids fluxes and pastes,
but still cleaning them. We still have an RMA and an OA in our inventory,
and until we can weed those out, we need a chemistry that can clean all
three types. We have found that Kyzen Aquanox SSA in a 28% solution works
very well for all three and we have no problems from residual low solids
flux. Alpha 2110 also works, but we like the Kyzen materials better.
Doug Pauls
Rockwell Collins
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:26:00 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Daan,
for different reasons than solder beading, I am presently evaluating
different no-clean solder pastes. And I came to realize that solder beading
might be a problem with the modern formulations, and speciffically with the
higher ranking products of the big brand names.
But until now I had no beading problem, with our stencils cut 100% and
rectangular on all the passives. I use CR36 from Multicore and get no solder
beading, regardless the pad design. I also tried the EasyProfile 256 from
Kester and F367 from Heraeus and they exhibited no solder beading. On the
other hand I got beads with Alpha's OMNIX and AIM NC251.
So, I believe too that using home plate apertures is a good thing, but there
also are pastes out there that do not produce beads. AIM just told me they
will release really soon an anti-beading paste, NC253.
So this is an alternative solution.
Regards,
Ioan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Fish [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:03 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to use them
>
> Dan,
>
> We do not have a standard for applying home-plate apertures.
>
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: D.Terstegge <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 2:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to use them
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> The goal is elimination of solder beads (the balls at the sides of
> chipcomponents). At present we're cleaning all our boards, which removes
> 99% of the solderbeads, but we want to anticipate on a no-clean process
> that we may introduce in the future. From previous Technet discussions I
> learned that the homeplate design is very effective in removing solder
> beads. Maybe I should also try some alternatives, but the question remains
> how to make an easy to use specification (to the stencil supplier, or to
> our production engineers who orders the stencil) as to what apertures
> should be changed to homeplate, and what apertures should be left
> untouched (or should be changed in another way).
>
> Daan Terstegge
> www.smtinfo.net <http://www.smtinfo.net>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: David Fish <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 1:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to use them
>
>
> We do not routinely use homeplate apertures. We only use
> homeplate
> apertures in cases where we need to reduce solder balling
> when using NC
> fluxed pastes.
>
> What is your goal in using this aperture shape?
>
> Dave Fish
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "d. terstegge" < [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> To: < [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:05 AM
> Subject: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to use them
>
>
> > Dear Technetters,
> >
> > For our stencils I have recently introduced the homeplate
> design for the
> apertures of chipcomponents larger than 1206.
> > But now a problem occurs with the guys who have to order
> the stencils: it
> takes a lot of time, by using Gerber data, partslist and
> assembly drawing to
> figure out which components are 1206, 1210, 1812. For a coil
> or tantalumcaps
> with such a footprint I don't want a homeplate aperture
> because these parts
> need a little more solder.
> > So we end up with a nice specification, but very
> unpractical for the
> production engineers.
> >
> > How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions
> on how to make
> an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about easier ways
> to order a
> stencil according to my spec ?
> > Should I keep it simple and say "use homeplate-apertures
> for all
> footprints larger than 1.5 * 1.5 mm ?"
> >
> > Daan Terstegge
> > SMT Centre
> > Thales Communications
> > Unclassified mail
> > Personal Website: <http://www.smtinfo.net>
> >
> >
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:43:10 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Bellamy, Dennis W. UTRC" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Standards for Naming Signals on Schematics.
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Is there a standard practice defined by the IPC, IEEE (or anyone else) for
naming signals when creating schematics?
Thanks,
Dennis W. Bellamy, C.I.D.
United Technologies Research Center
East Hartford, CT. 06108
[log in to unmask]
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Is there a standard practice =
defined by the IPC, IEEE (or anyone else) for naming signals when =
creating schematics?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thanks,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Dennis W. Bellamy, C.I.D.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">United Technologies Research =
Center</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">East Hartford, CT. 06108</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">[log in to unmask]</FONT>
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:47:51 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dennis Fritz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: tin compatalbe etchants
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Adam -
Alkaline etchant is used with tin plating all the time. Acid etchants are
based on sulfate or chloride chemistry - peroxide sulfuric, persulfate,
cupric chloride, and ferric chloride. All attack tin - makes sense when you
think that you plate tin from sulfate or chloride baths - that's what
dissolves the anodes so you can plate.
Couple of advantages of stripping tin for all copper circuitry -
- Your assembly process might be hot enough to relow tin (watch out for
temperature sensitive components) and cause the mask to wrinkle over the
molten tin
- Copper circuitry can be treated with oxide or one of the new "adhesion
promoters" for extra strong mask adhesion when plating harsh final finishes
such as ENIG or immersion tin. In fact, you must strip the tin to get to
any of these other final finishes
Denny Fritz
MacDermid, Inc
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:52:45 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dennis Fritz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: tin compatalbe etchants
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Adam -
Sorry, I misread your second question - no mask to be applied. Stripping the
tin will mean no copper/tin intermetallic can be formed in storage. Think
then the question for you is whether your assembly system flux is more
compatible with tin, or with bare copper, probably protected by Organic
Solderability Preservative (OSP).
Denny Fritz
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:56:20 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: jong s kadesch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 6 Dec 2001 (#2001-762))
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At 12:00 AM 12/7/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 00:00:01 -0600
>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: TechNet Digest - 6 Dec 2001 (#2001-762)
>To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There is one message totalling 31 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. SnPb HASL
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 22:39:53 EST
>From: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: SnPb HASL
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>boundary="part1_80.14567c83.29419409_boundary"
>
>Kirk,
> I will have the pot analyzed for you at no charge and let you know
> where you stand. You can e-mail me directly.
>
>Steve Wentz
>Florida CirTech Inc.
Hi,
I will be back on 12/17/01.
Regards,
Jong
--=====================_1323673==_.ALT
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<html>
At 12:00 AM 12/7/01 -0600, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001
00:00:01 -0600<br>
Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
From: Automatic digest processor
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: TechNet Digest - 6 Dec 2001 (#2001-762)<br>
To: Recipients of TechNet digests
<[log in to unmask]><br>
<br>
There is one message totalling 31 lines in this issue.<br>
<br>
Topics of the day:<br>
<br>
1. SnPb HASL<br>
<br>
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 22:39:53 EST<br>
From: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: Re: SnPb HASL<br>
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<br>
<font face="arial" size=2>Kirk, <br>
I will have the pot analyzed for you at no
charge and let you know where you stand. You can e-mail me
directly. <br>
<br>
Steve Wentz <br>
Florida CirTech Inc.</font><font face="arial"> </blockquote>Hi,<br>
<br>
I will be back on 12/17/01.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Jong<br>
</font></html>
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:56:26 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: jong s kadesch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 7 Dec 2001 - Special
issue (#2001-764))
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At 01:37 PM 12/7/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:37:39 -0600
>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: TechNet Digest - 7 Dec 2001 - Special issue (#2001-764)
>To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There are 12 messages totalling 921 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics in this special issue:
>
> 1. Info on lead free reflow profiles sought (3)
> 2. Alkaline Etchant--response
> 3. Via repairs (2)
> 4. SURFACE FINISHES (2)
> 5. 2 Conformal Coating ?'s (2)
> 6. BGA Visual Inspection (2)
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
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=20
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700=20
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:31:26 -0500
>From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Info on lead free reflow profiles sought
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain
>
>Hi Eric,
>
>check
>http://www.vitronics-soltec.com/Vis/Vis_r5.nsf/technology!OpenFrameSet,=
then
>processes/reflow. the link that pops-up an article is "lead-free reflow
>soldering ".
>
>Besides that, a couple of days ago I got mail from Vitronics, having inside
>a CD called "5 steps to lead-free". The problem is I don't know why I got
>it, was it me ordering it, probably through their website, or simply, a
>courtesy from Vitronics? Mistery!
>
>I think you could also contact Vitronics for this CD.
>
>Regards,
>Ioan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Christison [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:36 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [TN] Info on lead free reflow profiles sought
> >
> > After half an hour's fruitless searching of the net I thought of=
Technet.
> >
> > Can anyone out there point me at a web page or email me a reflow profile
> > for one of the higher
> > melting point lead free solders. I'm trying to produce a test spec to
> > determine whether some
> > temperature sensitive components would survive a 'worst case' reflow
> > cycle.
> >
> > By the way. I note that many of the lead free alloys contain Bismuth.
> > Isn't this more toxic
> > than lead? Am I being naive in my surprise that one toxic chemical is
> > being replaced with
> > something equally bad?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text=
in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
> > Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases=
>
> > E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> > additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> > ext.5315
> >=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:36:12 -0500
>From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Info on lead free reflow profiles sought
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>
>Eric,
>I am still hunting for good net sites for your first request.
>
>With regards to the latter:
>No, bismuth is not more toxic. Bismuth oxychloride is used in the=
cosmetics
>industry and other bismuth salts (I forget which one(s)) are used in
>PeptoBismol=AE (Did I spell that right?) No bismuth compounds are listed=
in
>the 1990 "NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards" I have and only bismuth
>telluride is listed in the ACGIH TLV Booklet - because of the tellurium.
>Toxicity does come into play in its mining, though, as 10 to 40% (depends=
on
>who you talk to and/or whether you are talking world-wide or country
>specific) comes as a by-product of lead mining.
>
>regards,
>Bev Christian
>Research in Motion
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Eric Christison [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: December 7, 2001 11:36 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [TN] Info on lead free reflow profiles sought
>
>
>After half an hour's fruitless searching of the net I thought of Technet.
>
>Can anyone out there point me at a web page or email me a reflow profile=
for
>one of the higher
>melting point lead free solders. I'm trying to produce a test spec to
>determine whether some
>temperature sensitive components would survive a 'worst case' reflow cycle.
>
>By the way. I note that many of the lead free alloys contain Bismuth. Isn't
>this more toxic
>than lead? Am I being naive in my surprise that one toxic chemical is being
>replaced with
>something equally bad?
>
>Regards,
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
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>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
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>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:40:07 -0800
>From: Richard Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Info on lead free reflow profiles sought
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"; format=3Dflowed
>
>Eric,
>
>I hate to assume anything, so.....in case you are not aware there is a
>LeadFreeNet also with IPC, you may want to post this there also.
>
>Richard
>
>At 04:35 PM 12/7/01 +0000, you wrote:
>>After half an hour's fruitless searching of the net I thought of Technet.
>>
>>Can anyone out there point me at a web page or email me a reflow profile
>>for one of the higher
>>melting point lead free solders. I'm trying to produce a test spec to
>>determine whether some
>>temperature sensitive components would survive a 'worst case' reflow=
cycle.
>>
>>By the way. I note that many of the lead free alloys contain Bismuth.
>>Isn't this more toxic
>>than lead? Am I being naive in my surprise that one toxic chemical is
>>being replaced with
>>something equally bad?
>>
>>Regards,
>
>
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:52:54 EST
>From: Dennis Fritz <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Alkaline Etchant--response
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>The following are some tips on running alkaline etchant, especially where
>production volume has decreased.
>
>1. Alkaline etchants are formulated with ammonia and chloride contents
>appropriate for percentage operating time. You may have now "hitched a=
race
>horse to an ox cart" so to speak. You may want to contact your vendor to
>change to a product more suited to your present operation, just as when=
your
>volume went up, you traded your ox for the race horse.
>
>Why is that? Race horse etchants are formulated for say 75% operation time
>and frequent sump turnover, - with high chloride (copper capacity) and=
lower
>excess ammonia (little idle time for ammonia evaporation).
>
>2. As much as possible, group your etching work into "bursts" of activity.
>Close down the dampers and shut off the sump heat when the etcher is not in
>use.
>
>3. Decrease the sump volume as much as possible with glass bricks, or=
similar
>inert media. This will allow more sump turnovers of the spent etchant per
>week. Calculate the turnover time for your sump - If it is longer than a
>couple of days - you are going to be fighting add-backs of anhydrous=
ammonia,
>or walking a tightrope with aqua ammonia add-backs.
>
>Rudy misses one point in specificaions on incoming alkaline etchant.
>Essentially all alkaline etchant uses recycle ammonia, and rest assured the
>copper in spent etchant is reclaimed. This ammonia recycle step means the
>spec is wider than for formulated products, but when you need to brag about
>recycle in your shop, point out that BOTH the copper and the ammonia in=
your
>spent alkaline etch get recycled.
>
>Denny Fritz
>MacDermid, Inc.
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:48:23 -0800
>From: James Miller <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Via repairs
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=3Dflowed
>
>I am trying to do some repairs on vias of an assembled board that were
>damaged due to test technicians scraping soldermask for ICT. The vias show
>signs of thinning/cracking at the knee. IPC 7721 shows that using eyelets
>are the acceptable repair for plated thru holes but they do not address=
vias
>anywhere that I am aware of. I can't imagine putting eyelets into a via.
>
>I am considering putting a solid wire into the via and filling it with
>solder to make the connection from top to bottom. Is this acceptable? If
>not then what is an acceptable method of repair? Any input would be
>appreciated.
>
>Sincerely
>Jim
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:05:30 -0600
>From: David Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: SURFACE FINISHES
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"
>
>Hi Charlie! I hadn't seen an assembler's response so I'll deposit mine for
>TechNet dissection. We have qualified immersion gold, immersion tin, and
>immersion silver as alternative pwb surface finishes for our manufacturing
>processes as HASL replacements. I don't foresee any one of the three
>alternatives as becoming "dominate" because each has both pro's and con's:
>
>Immersion gold: wonderfully flat, good long term solderability, good
>industry availability, BUT black pad issues, its a nasty chemistry on
>soldermask, and soldering to nickel is not soldering to copper
>
>Immersion tin: wonderfully flat, metallurgical compatibility, reworkable,
>BUT long term solderability issues, compatibility with soldermasks, and
>supply sources
>
>Immersion silver: wonderfully flat, reworkable, great RF design
>characteristics, BUT supply source issues, metallurgical questions, and
>long term solderability questions
>
>I think that the selection of an alternative surface finishes will become a
>question of materials organization within a particular manufacturing
>environment - HASL made our choices simpler but was definitely robustness
>limiting for certain manufacturing flows (like SMT fine pitch).
>
>Dave Hillman
>Rockwell Collins
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
>Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/05/2001 11:33:26 AM
>
>Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
>
>Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>cc:
>
>Subject: Re: [TN] SURFACE FINISHES
>
>
>EARL:
>
>Does your view hold the same from an assemblers point of view.
>
>More specifically, in your history, would the assembler prefer ENIG over
>SILVER and/or TIN?
>THe assemblers I speak with just do not have the background/experience to
>decide. However, they
>are quick to reject the bare board vendor for what they THINK is a
>solderability problem.
>(That's when I move with failure review etc. I hope to reduce this
>incidence
>dramatically by proposing user friendly finishes based on board design.)
>
>Charlie
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Earl Moon
>Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:14 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] SURFACE FINISHES
>
>
>As a cost factor to you it's nickle and dime stuff. To most board shops I
>work with, it is as well. It's a matter of choice so much that it's almost
>subjective (whatever looks best though black pad isn't too pretty) -
>excluding HASL, or course. I hope you are right about its final demise.
>
>MoonMann
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>
>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>
>-----
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
>
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:08:00 -0600
>From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Via repairs
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=3D"=3D_CC91EC8C.73127F25"
>
>I have used solid wire for a long time and have had no issues with this=20
>method. I do suggest though to leave a small amount of a tail to lay over=
=20
>the pad on each side. I feel that this allows the vertical fill and also=
=20
>gives the joint a little more integrity with the lead soldered onto the=20
>pad also.
>
>Kathy
>
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:51:07 -0000
>From: Peter Swanson <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>
>Graham,
>
>You really must see someone about your delusions over UV cured coatings,
>which are successfully used to coat many thousands of pcb's each year. I
>know someone who has a nice sofa you can stretch out on whilst you tell him
>all about it.... <g>
>
>Suitability for UV has nothing to do with 3D v. 2D, more to do with the
>complexity of the assembly geometry and the application methodology. These
>will determine if a secondary cure mechanism is needed for the application.
>In many instances (and with some of our customers), full cure is achieved
>just with light.
>
>Regards,
>Peter
>--
>--------------------------------------------------------
>Peter Swanson [log in to unmask]
>INTERTRONICS http://www.intertronics.co.uk
>
> INTERTRONICS is dedicated to providing quality
> material, consumable and equipment solutions to the
> electronics manufacturing and other technology based
> industries, with the highest levels of technical
> support and customer service.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Graham Naisbitt [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: 06 December 2001 16:52
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
>
>
>Mike
>
>You would be better to go with a conventional coating. UV is not ideal for
>3D objects - works great in 2D, cos you don't have to bend light! :-)
>
>I cannot remember what the operating environment was for your circuit - if
>you would care to repeat, I can recommend something - however, I am sure
>that a one part AR or UR coating from a reliable supplier will give you the
>best overall results - process and operating environment.
>
>Regards, Graham Naisbitt
>
>[log in to unmask]
>www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
>
>For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of
>http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
>
>Concoat Limited
>Alasan House, Albany Park
>CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK
>Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100
>Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227
>Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mike Manwell
>Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 02:41
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
>
>
>Hello,
>Thanks in advance if you have taken the time to read this!
>
>#1- Im trying different materials in a spray application. Both are cured
>using UV. One material does a "secondary cure" w/ moisture. This is cool
>because after 100 hours after UV cure, all material is fully cured.
>The other material Im trying uses HEAT for a secondary cure, or, if
>shodowed during UV cure, the material wont cure and never will. Obviously I
>dont want the stuff dripping or running anywhere, but being new to this
>wonderful process, just dont feel good about leaving uncured material on a
>product for it's entire life. Iv been told that you can "test" the product
>to see if the uncured material is causing a problem but Im not sure what
>type of test that would consist of. Any insight?
>
>#2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their UV
>oven to limit shadowing?
>
>Thanks so much,
>
>Mike Manwell
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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>-----
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
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>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:51:15 -0000
>From: Peter Swanson <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>
>Mike,
>
>Question 1: Whatever cure mechanism you use, be sure not to leave any
>uncured material around, as it is likely to cause trouble in the future,
>whether it me just messy, or something else. For example, the electrical
>characteristics of the uncured coating are likely to be very different than
>the cured one.
>
>One point about moisture cure is, of course, that it is moisture dependent,
>and as Jon More stated, not in your control - can vary in cure time from
>very short to, sometimes, not at all!
>
>Question 2: A good idea if your pcb geometry needs it. Years ago, I saw a
>curing machine where the lamp was swung back and forth in an arc over the
>conveyor whilst the assembly moved through, to help in this area. Lamps can
>also be added on the sides of conveyors, giving extra light perpendicular=
to
>the overhead lamp.
>
>If you can choose a coating which cures with UV *and* visible light, you
>might find a better result. The visible light travels farther, reflects and
>bounces around into the nooks and crannies much better.
>
>Regards,
>Peter
>--
>--------------------------------------------------------
>Peter Swanson [log in to unmask]
>INTERTRONICS http://www.intertronics.co.uk
>
> INTERTRONICS is dedicated to providing quality
> material, consumable and equipment solutions to the
> electronics manufacturing and other technology based
> industries, with the highest levels of technical
> support and customer service.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Manwell [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: 06 December 2001 14:41
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s
>
>
>Hello,
>Thanks in advance if you have taken the time to read this!
>
>#1- Im trying different materials in a spray application. Both are cured
>using UV. One material does a "secondary cure" w/ moisture. This is cool
>because after 100 hours after UV cure, all material is fully cured.
>The other material Im trying uses HEAT for a secondary cure, or, if
>shodowed during UV cure, the material wont cure and never will. Obviously I
>dont want the stuff dripping or running anywhere, but being new to this
>wonderful process, just dont feel good about leaving uncured material on a
>product for it's entire life. Iv been told that you can "test" the product
>to see if the uncured material is causing a problem but Im not sure what
>type of test that would consist of. Any insight?
>
>#2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their UV
>oven to limit shadowing?
>
>Thanks so much,
>
>Mike Manwell
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:36:13 -0500
>From: Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: SURFACE FINISHES
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii; format=3Dflowed
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Hello Mr. Hillman:
>
>Thank you very much for your input. Your time is most appreciated.
>
>As a board supplier I do prefer ENIG when process control is superior
>(black pad notwithstanding). However, it is the customer
>who is King and our goal is to surpass their requirements for quality
>and reliablity. As CM's are now a driving force as to vendor choice,
>their needs
>have become a primary influencer in choosing friendly surface finishes
>beneficial to their process.
>
>What comments might you have relative to solderability problems found
>specific to silver/gold/tin coatings.
>When the design calls for fine pitch what do you choose for your
>facility? And why?
>Regarding silver again; would corrosion of the surface upon exposure to
>flux be an issue at rework?
>Secondly, when reflow issues arise, have you found them to be traced
>back to the thickness of the silver itself (or lack of thickness)?
>
>One view is that as lead is taken out of the PCB fab process, one of
>these alternative finishes will dominate. The driver will be
>rework/touch-up flexibility as to which one wins. Would you agree?
>
>Your insights are thanked for in advance.
>
>Charlie McMahon
>McMahon Sales Company
>
>David Hillman wrote:
>
>>Hi Charlie! I hadn't seen an assembler's response so I'll deposit mine for
>>TechNet dissection. We have qualified immersion gold, immersion tin, and
>>immersion silver as alternative pwb surface finishes for our manufacturing
>>processes as HASL replacements. I don't foresee any one of the three
>>alternatives as becoming "dominate" because each has both pro's and con's:
>>
>>Immersion gold: wonderfully flat, good long term solderability, good
>>industry availability, BUT black pad issues, its a nasty chemistry on
>>soldermask, and soldering to nickel is not soldering to copper
>>
>>Immersion tin: wonderfully flat, metallurgical compatibility, reworkable,
>>BUT long term solderability issues, compatibility with soldermasks, and
>>supply sources
>>
>>Immersion silver: wonderfully flat, reworkable, great RF design
>>characteristics, BUT supply source issues, metallurgical questions, and
>>long term solderability questions
>>
>>I think that the selection of an alternative surface finishes will become=
a
>>question of materials organization within a particular manufacturing
>>environment - HASL made our choices simpler but was definitely robustness
>>limiting for certain manufacturing flows (like SMT fine pitch).
>>
>>Dave Hillman
>>Rockwell Collins
>>[log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/05/2001 11:33:26=
AM
>>
>>Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>cc:
>>
>>Subject: Re: [TN] SURFACE FINISHES
>>
>>
>>EARL:
>>
>>Does your view hold the same from an assemblers point of view.
>>
>>More specifically, in your history, would the assembler prefer ENIG over
>>SILVER and/or TIN?
>>THe assemblers I speak with just do not have the background/experience to
>>decide. However, they
>>are quick to reject the bare board vendor for what they THINK is a
>>solderability problem.
>>(That's when I move with failure review etc. I hope to reduce this
>>incidence
>>dramatically by proposing user friendly finishes based on board design.)
>>
>>Charlie
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Earl Moon
>>Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:14 PM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [TN] SURFACE FINISHES
>>
>>
>>As a cost factor to you it's nickle and dime stuff. To most board shops I
>>work with, it is as well. It's a matter of choice so much that it's almost
>>subjective (whatever looks best though black pad isn't too pretty) -
>>excluding HASL, or course. I hope you are right about its final demise.
>>
>>MoonMann
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
>>
>>-----
>>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>>Technet NOMAIL
>>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>>E-mail Archives
>>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>>additional
>>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>>ext.5315
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
>>
>>-----
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>>-------
>>
>>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>>Technet NOMAIL
>>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>>E-mail Archives
>>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>>additional
>>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>>ext.5315
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>>-------
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>>-------
>>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET=20
>>Technet NOMAIL
>>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources &=20
>>Databases > E-mail Archives
>>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700=
=20
>>ext.5315
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>>-------
>>
>>
>
>
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:59:39 -0700
>From: Rick Howieson <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>
>We purchased an ERSAScope recently after evaluating both X-Ray & ERSA. We
>are now in the process of getting two more ESRAScopes. All the features=
have
>been beneficial to us.
>Rick Howieson
>Delta Group Electronics, Inc.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:44 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection
>
>
> > TechNet Friends,
> > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
> > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It=
appears
> > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options=
to
> > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do=
add
> > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated such
> > tools.
> > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they
> > as fully developed as the ERSA?
> >
> > Thanks for your help with this one,
> > I
> >
> > Greg Anderson
> > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> > GE Fanuc Automation
> > Charlottesville, VA 22911
> > Phone: 434-978-5181
> > FAX: 434-978-5898
> > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:44:17 -0500
>From: Graham Collins <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII
>
>Hi Greg!
>We recently bought an ErsaScope, after checking out the alternatives at=20
>Apex last year. There are a couple of companies making similar products,=
=20
>for similar prices. We went with the Ersa system. The Ersa seems more=20
>fully developed than the others - purpose built vs adapted. And viewing=20
>on the PC gives you some flexibility that the others didn't - just live=20
>video monitors typically.
>
>The ErsaScope comes with some well developed software. Will you truly use=
=20
>all it's functions?? It depends, but we don't. The defect / QA library it=
=20
>comes with - we don't use. We use it for inspection, and for=20
>documenting things like problem parts.. It's great for taking=20
>pictures. We didn't go for the Magniscope option, if I had to do it again=
=20
>I might.
>
>regards
>
>Graham Collins
>Process Engineer,
>Northrop Grumman
>Atlantic Facility of Litton Systems Canada
>(902) 873-2000 ext 6215
>
> >>> [log in to unmask] 12/07/01 12:43PM >>>
> > TechNet Friends,
> > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
> > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It=
appears
> > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options=
to
> > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do=
add
> > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated such
> > tools.
> > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they
> > as fully developed as the ERSA?
> >
> > Thanks for your help with this one,
> > I
> >
> > Greg Anderson
> > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> > GE Fanuc Automation
> > Charlottesville, VA 22911
> > Phone: 434-978-5181
> > FAX: 434-978-5898
> > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET=20
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >=
=20
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700=20
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
Hi,
I will be back on 12/17/01.
Regards,
Jong
--=====================_1324344==_.ALT
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digests <[log in to unmask]></div>
<br>
<div>There are 12 messages totalling 921 lines in this issue.</div>
<br>
<div>Topics in this special issue:</div>
<br>
<div> 1. Info on lead free reflow profiles sought (3)</div>
<div> 2. Alkaline Etchant--response</div>
<div> 3. Via repairs (2)</div>
<div> 4. SURFACE FINISHES (2)</div>
<div> 5. 2 Conformal Coating ?'s (2)</div>
<div> 6. BGA Visual Inspection (2)</div>
<br>
<div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
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<div>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:31:26 -0500</div>
<div>From: "Tempea, Ioan"
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: Info on lead free reflow profiles sought</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain</div>
<br>
<div>Hi Eric,</div>
<br>
<div>check</div>
<div><a href="http://www.vitronics-soltec.com/Vis/Vis_r5.nsf/technology!OpenFrameSet" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.vitronics-soltec.com/Vis/Vis_r5.nsf/technology!OpenFrameSet</a>,
then</div>
<div>processes/reflow. the link that pops-up an article is
"lead-free reflow</div>
<div>soldering ".</div>
<br>
<div>Besides that, a couple of days ago I got mail from Vitronics, having
inside</div>
<div>a CD called "5 steps to lead-free". The problem is I don't
know why I got</div>
<div>it, was it me ordering it, probably through their website, or
simply, a</div>
<div>courtesy from Vitronics? Mistery!</div>
<br>
<div>I think you could also contact Vitronics for this CD.</div>
<br>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Ioan</div>
<br>
<div>> -----Original Message-----</div>
<div>> From: Eric Christison [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]</div>
<div>> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:36 AM</div>
<div>> To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>> Subject: [TN] Info on lead free
reflow profiles sought</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> After half an hour's fruitless searching of the net I thought
of Technet.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Can anyone out there point me at a web page or email me a
reflow profile</div>
<div>> for one of the higher</div>
<div>> melting point lead free solders. I'm trying to produce a test
spec to</div>
<div>> determine whether some</div>
<div>> temperature sensitive components would survive a 'worst case'
reflow</div>
<div>> cycle.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> By the way. I note that many of the lead free alloys contain
Bismuth.</div>
<div>> Isn't this more toxic</div>
<div>> than lead? Am I being naive in my surprise that one toxic
chemical is</div>
<div>> being replaced with</div>
<div>> something equally bad?</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Regards,</div>
<div>></div>
<div>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>> -------</div>
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LISTSERV 1.8d</div>
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<div>> -------</div>
<div>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:36:12 -0500</div>
<div>From: Bev Christian
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: Info on lead free reflow profiles sought</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<br>
<div>Eric,</div>
<div>I am still hunting for good net sites for your first
request.</div>
<br>
<div>With regards to the latter:</div>
<div>No, bismuth is not more toxic. Bismuth oxychloride is used in
the cosmetics</div>
<div>industry and other bismuth salts (I forget which one(s)) are used
in</div>
<div>PeptoBismol® (Did I spell that right?) No bismuth
compounds are listed in</div>
<div>the 1990 "NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards" I have
and only bismuth</div>
<div>telluride is listed in the ACGIH TLV Booklet - because of the
tellurium.</div>
<div>Toxicity does come into play in its mining, though, as 10 to 40%
(depends on</div>
<div>who you talk to and/or whether you are talking world-wide or
country</div>
<div>specific) comes as a by-product of lead mining.</div>
<br>
<div>regards,</div>
<div>Bev Christian</div>
<div>Research in Motion</div>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: Eric Christison
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]</div>
<div>Sent: December 7, 2001 11:36 AM</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: [TN] Info on lead free reflow profiles sought</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>After half an hour's fruitless searching of the net I thought of
Technet.</div>
<br>
<div>Can anyone out there point me at a web page or email me a reflow
profile for</div>
<div>one of the higher</div>
<div>melting point lead free solders. I'm trying to produce a test spec
to</div>
<div>determine whether some</div>
<div>temperature sensitive components would survive a 'worst case' reflow
cycle.</div>
<br>
<div>By the way. I note that many of the lead free alloys contain
Bismuth. Isn't</div>
<div>this more toxic</div>
<div>than lead? Am I being naive in my surprise that one toxic chemical
is being</div>
<div>replaced with</div>
<div>something equally bad?</div>
<br>
<div>Regards,</div>
<br>
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<div>-----</div>
<div>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:40:07 -0800</div>
<div>From: Richard Hamilton
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: Info on lead free reflow profiles sought</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii";
format=flowed</div>
<br>
<div>Eric,</div>
<br>
<div>I hate to assume anything, so.....in case you are not aware there is
a</div>
<div>LeadFreeNet also with IPC, you may want to post this there
also.</div>
<br>
<div>Richard</div>
<br>
<div>At 04:35 PM 12/7/01 +0000, you wrote:</div>
<blockquote type=cite><div>After half an hour's fruitless searching of
the net I thought of Technet.</div>
<br>
<div>Can anyone out there point me at a web page or email me a reflow
profile</div>
<div>for one of the higher</div>
<div>melting point lead free solders. I'm trying to produce a test spec
to</div>
<div>determine whether some</div>
<div>temperature sensitive components would survive a 'worst case' reflow
cycle.</div>
<br>
<div>By the way. I note that many of the lead free alloys contain
Bismuth.</div>
<div>Isn't this more toxic</div>
<div>than lead? Am I being naive in my surprise that one toxic chemical
is</div>
<div>being replaced with</div>
<div>something equally bad?</div>
<br>
<div>Regards,</div>
</blockquote><br>
<br>
<div>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:52:54 EST</div>
<div>From: Dennis Fritz <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: Alkaline Etchant--response</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"</div>
<div>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit</div>
<br>
<div>The following are some tips on running alkaline etchant, especially
where</div>
<div>production volume has decreased.</div>
<br>
<div>1. Alkaline etchants are formulated with ammonia and chloride
contents</div>
<div>appropriate for percentage operating time. You may have now
"hitched a race</div>
<div>horse to an ox cart" so to speak. You may want to contact
your vendor to</div>
<div>change to a product more suited to your present operation, just as
when your</div>
<div>volume went up, you traded your ox for the race horse.</div>
<br>
<div>Why is that? Race horse etchants are formulated for say 75%
operation time</div>
<div>and frequent sump turnover, - with high chloride (copper
capacity) and lower</div>
<div>excess ammonia (little idle time for ammonia evaporation).</div>
<br>
<div>2. As much as possible, group your etching work into
"bursts" of activity.</div>
<div>Close down the dampers and shut off the sump heat when the etcher is
not in</div>
<div>use.</div>
<br>
<div>3. Decrease the sump volume as much as possible with glass bricks,
or similar</div>
<div>inert media. This will allow more sump turnovers of the spent
etchant per</div>
<div>week. Calculate the turnover time for your sump - If it is
longer than a</div>
<div>couple of days - you are going to be fighting add-backs of anhydrous
ammonia,</div>
<div>or walking a tightrope with aqua ammonia add-backs.</div>
<br>
<div>Rudy misses one point in specificaions on incoming alkaline
etchant.</div>
<div>Essentially all alkaline etchant uses recycle ammonia, and rest
assured the</div>
<div>copper in spent etchant is reclaimed. This ammonia
recycle step means the</div>
<div>spec is wider than for formulated products, but when you need to
brag about</div>
<div>recycle in your shop, point out that BOTH the copper and the ammonia
in your</div>
<div>spent alkaline etch get recycled.</div>
<br>
<div>Denny Fritz</div>
<div>MacDermid, Inc.</div>
<div>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 09:48:23 -0800</div>
<div>From: James Miller
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Via repairs</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed</div>
<br>
<div>I am trying to do some repairs on vias of an assembled board that
were</div>
<div>damaged due to test technicians scraping soldermask for ICT.
The vias show</div>
<div>signs of thinning/cracking at the knee. IPC 7721 shows that
using eyelets</div>
<div>are the acceptable repair for plated thru holes but they do not
address vias</div>
<div>anywhere that I am aware of. I can't imagine putting eyelets
into a via.</div>
<br>
<div>I am considering putting a solid wire into the via and filling it
with</div>
<div>solder to make the connection from top to bottom. Is this
acceptable? If</div>
<div>not then what is an acceptable method of repair? Any input
would be</div>
<div>appreciated.</div>
<br>
<div>Sincerely</div>
<div>Jim</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>_________________________________________________________________</div>
<div>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
<a href="http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp</a></div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:05:30 -0600</div>
<div>From: David Hillman
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: SURFACE FINISHES</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"</div>
<br>
<div>Hi Charlie! I hadn't seen an assembler's response so I'll deposit
mine for</div>
<div>TechNet dissection. We have qualified immersion gold, immersion tin,
and</div>
<div>immersion silver as alternative pwb surface finishes for our
manufacturing</div>
<div>processes as HASL replacements. I don't foresee any one of the
three</div>
<div>alternatives as becoming "dominate" because each has both
pro's and con's:</div>
<br>
<div>Immersion gold: wonderfully flat, good long term solderability,
good</div>
<div>industry availability, BUT black pad issues, its a nasty chemistry
on</div>
<div>soldermask, and soldering to nickel is not soldering to
copper</div>
<br>
<div>Immersion tin: wonderfully flat, metallurgical compatibility,
reworkable,</div>
<div>BUT long term solderability issues, compatibility with soldermasks,
and</div>
<div>supply sources</div>
<br>
<div>Immersion silver: wonderfully flat, reworkable, great RF
design</div>
<div>characteristics, BUT supply source issues, metallurgical questions,
and</div>
<div>long term solderability questions</div>
<br>
<div>I think that the selection of an alternative surface finishes will
become a</div>
<div>question of materials organization within a particular
manufacturing</div>
<div>environment - HASL made our choices simpler but was definitely
robustness</div>
<div>limiting for certain manufacturing flows (like SMT fine
pitch).</div>
<br>
<div>Dave Hillman</div>
<div>Rockwell Collins</div>
<div>[log in to unmask]</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on
12/05/2001 11:33:26 AM</div>
<br>
<div>Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<br>
<div>Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></div>
<br>
<br>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>cc:</div>
<br>
<div>Subject: Re: [TN] SURFACE FINISHES</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>EARL:</div>
<br>
<div>Does your view hold the same from an assemblers point of
view.</div>
<br>
<div>More specifically, in your history, would the assembler prefer ENIG
over</div>
<div>SILVER and/or TIN?</div>
<div>THe assemblers I speak with just do not have the
background/experience to</div>
<div>decide. However, they</div>
<div>are quick to reject the bare board vendor for what they THINK is
a</div>
<div>solderability problem.</div>
<div>(That's when I move with failure review etc. I hope to reduce
this</div>
<div>incidence</div>
<div>dramatically by proposing user friendly finishes based on board
design.)</div>
<br>
<div>Charlie</div>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: TechNet
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]]On</a>
Behalf Of Earl Moon</div>
<div>Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:14 PM</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [TN] SURFACE FINISHES</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>As a cost factor to you it's nickle and dime stuff. To most board
shops I</div>
<div>work with, it is as well. It's a matter of choice so much that it's
almost</div>
<div>subjective (whatever looks best though black pad isn't too pretty)
-</div>
<div>excluding HASL, or course. I hope you are right about its final
demise.</div>
<br>
<div>MoonMann</div>
<br>
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<br>
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<div>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 12:08:00 -0600</div>
<div>From: Kathy Kuhlow
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: Via repairs</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="=_CC91EC8C.73127F25"</div>
<br>
<div>I have used solid wire for a long time and have had no issues with
this method. I do suggest though to leave a small amount of a tail
to lay over the pad on each side. I feel that this allows the
vertical fill and also gives the joint a little more integrity with the
lead soldered onto the pad also. </div>
<br>
<div>Kathy </div>
<br>
<div>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:51:07 -0000</div>
<div>From: Peter Swanson
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: 2 Conformal Coating ?'s</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<br>
<div>Graham,</div>
<br>
<div>You really must see someone about your delusions over UV cured
coatings,</div>
<div>which are successfully used to coat many thousands of pcb's each
year. I</div>
<div>know someone who has a nice sofa you can stretch out on whilst you
tell him</div>
<div>all about it.... <g></div>
<br>
<div>Suitability for UV has nothing to do with 3D v. 2D, more to do with
the</div>
<div>complexity of the assembly geometry and the application methodology.
These</div>
<div>will determine if a secondary cure mechanism is needed for the
application.</div>
<div>In many instances (and with some of our customers), full cure is
achieved</div>
<div>just with light.</div>
<br>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Peter</div>
<div>--</div>
<div>--------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>Peter Swanson
[log in to unmask]</div>
<div>INTERTRONICS
<a href="http://www.intertronics.co.uk/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.intertronics.co.uk</a></div>
<br>
<div> INTERTRONICS is dedicated to providing quality</div>
<div> material, consumable and equipment solutions to the</div>
<div> electronics manufacturing and other technology based</div>
<div> industries, with the highest levels of technical</div>
<div> support
and customer service.</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: Graham Naisbitt
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]</div>
<div>Sent: 06 December 2001 16:52</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Mike</div>
<br>
<div>You would be better to go with a conventional coating. UV is not
ideal for</div>
<div>3D objects - works great in 2D, cos you don't have to bend light!
:-)</div>
<br>
<div>I cannot remember what the operating environment was for your
circuit - if</div>
<div>you would care to repeat, I can recommend something - however, I am
sure</div>
<div>that a one part AR or UR coating from a reliable supplier will give
you the</div>
<div>best overall results - process and operating environment.</div>
<br>
<div>Regards, Graham Naisbitt</div>
<br>
<div>[log in to unmask]</div>
<div><a href="http://www.concoat.co.uk/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>www.concoat.co.uk</a>
<<a href="http://www.concoat.co.uk/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.concoat.co.uk</a>></div>
<br>
<div>For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of</div>
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<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: TechNet [<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]]On</a> Behalf Of Mike Manwell</div>
<div>Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 02:41</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Hello,</div>
<div>Thanks in advance if you have taken the time to read this!</div>
<br>
<div>#1- Im trying different materials in a spray application. Both are cured</div>
<div>using UV. One material does a "secondary cure" w/ moisture. This is cool</div>
<div>because after 100 hours after UV cure, all material is fully cured.</div>
<div>The other material Im trying uses HEAT for a secondary cure, or, if</div>
<div>shodowed during UV cure, the material wont cure and never will. Obviously I</div>
<div>dont want the stuff dripping or running anywhere, but being new to this</div>
<div>wonderful process, just dont feel good about leaving uncured material on a</div>
<div>product for it's entire life. Iv been told that you can "test" the product</div>
<div>to see if the uncured material is causing a problem but Im not sure what</div>
<div>type of test that would consist of. Any insight?</div>
<br>
<div>#2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their UV</div>
<div>oven to limit shadowing?</div>
<br>
<div>Thanks so much,</div>
<br>
<div>Mike Manwell</div>
<br>
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<div>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:51:15 -0000</div>
<div>From: Peter Swanson <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: 2 Conformal Coating ?'s</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<br>
<div>Mike,</div>
<br>
<div>Question 1: Whatever cure mechanism you use, be sure not to leave any</div>
<div>uncured material around, as it is likely to cause trouble in the future,</div>
<div>whether it me just messy, or something else. For example, the electrical</div>
<div>characteristics of the uncured coating are likely to be very different than</div>
<div>the cured one.</div>
<br>
<div>One point about moisture cure is, of course, that it is moisture dependent,</div>
<div>and as Jon More stated, not in your control - can vary in cure time from</div>
<div>very short to, sometimes, not at all!</div>
<br>
<div>Question 2: A good idea if your pcb geometry needs it. Years ago, I saw a</div>
<div>curing machine where the lamp was swung back and forth in an arc over the</div>
<div>conveyor whilst the assembly moved through, to help in this area. Lamps can</div>
<div>also be added on the sides of conveyors, giving extra light perpendicular to</div>
<div>the overhead lamp.</div>
<br>
<div>If you can choose a coating which cures with UV *and* visible light, you</div>
<div>might find a better result. The visible light travels farther, reflects and</div>
<div>bounces around into the nooks and crannies much better.</div>
<br>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Peter</div>
<div>--</div>
<div>--------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>Peter Swanson [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>INTERTRONICS <a href="http://www.intertronics.co.uk/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.intertronics.co.uk</a></div>
<br>
<div> INTERTRONICS is dedicated to providing quality</div>
<div> material, consumable and equipment solutions to the</div>
<div> electronics manufacturing and other technology based</div>
<div> industries, with the highest levels of technical</div>
<div> support and customer service.</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: Mike Manwell [<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]</div>
<div>Sent: 06 December 2001 14:41</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: [TN] 2 Conformal Coating ?'s</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Hello,</div>
<div>Thanks in advance if you have taken the time to read this!</div>
<br>
<div>#1- Im trying different materials in a spray application. Both are cured</div>
<div>using UV. One material does a "secondary cure" w/ moisture. This is cool</div>
<div>because after 100 hours after UV cure, all material is fully cured.</div>
<div>The other material Im trying uses HEAT for a secondary cure, or, if</div>
<div>shodowed during UV cure, the material wont cure and never will. Obviously I</div>
<div>dont want the stuff dripping or running anywhere, but being new to this</div>
<div>wonderful process, just dont feel good about leaving uncured material on a</div>
<div>product for it's entire life. Iv been told that you can "test" the product</div>
<div>to see if the uncured material is causing a problem but Im not sure what</div>
<div>type of test that would consist of. Any insight?</div>
<br>
<div>#2- Has anyone out there ever installed refelctive metal plates in their UV</div>
<div>oven to limit shadowing?</div>
<br>
<div>Thanks so much,</div>
<br>
<div>Mike Manwell</div>
<br>
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<div>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:36:13 -0500</div>
<div>From: Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: SURFACE FINISHES</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed</div>
<div>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit</div>
<br>
<div>Hello Mr. Hillman:</div>
<br>
<div>Thank you very much for your input. Your time is most appreciated.</div>
<br>
<div>As a board supplier I do prefer ENIG when process control is superior</div>
<div>(black pad notwithstanding). However, it is the customer</div>
<div>who is King and our goal is to surpass their requirements for quality</div>
<div>and reliablity. As CM's are now a driving force as to vendor choice,</div>
<div>their needs</div>
<div>have become a primary influencer in choosing friendly surface finishes</div>
<div>beneficial to their process.</div>
<br>
<div>What comments might you have relative to solderability problems found</div>
<div>specific to silver/gold/tin coatings.</div>
<div>When the design calls for fine pitch what do you choose for your</div>
<div>facility? And why?</div>
<div>Regarding silver again; would corrosion of the surface upon exposure to</div>
<div>flux be an issue at rework?</div>
<div>Secondly, when reflow issues arise, have you found them to be traced</div>
<div>back to the thickness of the silver itself (or lack of thickness)?</div>
<br>
<div>One view is that as lead is taken out of the PCB fab process, one of</div>
<div>these alternative finishes will dominate. The driver will be</div>
<div>rework/touch-up flexibility as to which one wins. Would you agree?</div>
<br>
<div>Your insights are thanked for in advance.</div>
<br>
<div>Charlie McMahon</div>
<div>McMahon Sales Company</div>
<br>
<div>David Hillman wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite><div>Hi Charlie! I hadn't seen an assembler's response so I'll deposit mine for</div>
<div>TechNet dissection. We have qualified immersion gold, immersion tin, and</div>
<div>immersion silver as alternative pwb surface finishes for our manufacturing</div>
<div>processes as HASL replacements. I don't foresee any one of the three</div>
<div>alternatives as becoming "dominate" because each has both pro's and con's:</div>
<br>
<div>Immersion gold: wonderfully flat, good long term solderability, good</div>
<div>industry availability, BUT black pad issues, its a nasty chemistry on</div>
<div>soldermask, and soldering to nickel is not soldering to copper</div>
<br>
<div>Immersion tin: wonderfully flat, metallurgical compatibility, reworkable,</div>
<div>BUT long term solderability issues, compatibility with soldermasks, and</div>
<div>supply sources</div>
<br>
<div>Immersion silver: wonderfully flat, reworkable, great RF design</div>
<div>characteristics, BUT supply source issues, metallurgical questions, and</div>
<div>long term solderability questions</div>
<br>
<div>I think that the selection of an alternative surface finishes will become a</div>
<div>question of materials organization within a particular manufacturing</div>
<div>environment - HASL made our choices simpler but was definitely robustness</div>
<div>limiting for certain manufacturing flows (like SMT fine pitch).</div>
<br>
<div>Dave Hillman</div>
<div>Rockwell Collins</div>
<div>[log in to unmask]</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/05/2001 11:33:26 AM</div>
<br>
<div>Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]></div>
<br>
<div>Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></div>
<br>
<br>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>cc:</div>
<br>
<div>Subject: Re: [TN] SURFACE FINISHES</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>EARL:</div>
<br>
<div>Does your view hold the same from an assemblers point of view.</div>
<br>
<div>More specifically, in your history, would the assembler prefer ENIG over</div>
<div>SILVER and/or TIN?</div>
<div>THe assemblers I speak with just do not have the background/experience to</div>
<div>decide. However, they</div>
<div>are quick to reject the bare board vendor for what they THINK is a</div>
<div>solderability problem.</div>
<div>(That's when I move with failure review etc. I hope to reduce this</div>
<div>incidence</div>
<div>dramatically by proposing user friendly finishes based on board design.)</div>
<br>
<div>Charlie</div>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: TechNet [<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]]On</a> Behalf Of Earl Moon</div>
<div>Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 12:14 PM</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [TN] SURFACE FINISHES</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>As a cost factor to you it's nickle and dime stuff. To most board shops I</div>
<div>work with, it is as well. It's a matter of choice so much that it's almost</div>
<div>subjective (whatever looks best though black pad isn't too pretty) -</div>
<div>excluding HASL, or course. I hope you are right about its final demise.</div>
<br>
<div>MoonMann</div>
<br>
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<br>
<br>
</blockquote><br>
<br>
<div>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:59:39 -0700</div>
<div>From: Rick Howieson <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<br>
<div>We purchased an ERSAScope recently after evaluating both X-Ray & ERSA. We</div>
<div>are now in the process of getting two more ESRAScopes. All the features have</div>
<div>been beneficial to us.</div>
<div>Rick Howieson</div>
<div>Delta Group Electronics, Inc.</div>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)</div>
<div>[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]</div>
<div>Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 9:44 AM</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>> TechNet Friends,</div>
<div>> We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our</div>
<div>> X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It appears</div>
<div>> to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options to</div>
<div>> make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do add</div>
<div>> value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.</div>
<div>> I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated such</div>
<div>> tools.</div>
<div>> Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?</div>
<div>> Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they</div>
<div>> as fully developed as the ERSA?</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Thanks for your help with this one,</div>
<div>> I</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Greg Anderson</div>
<div>> Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer</div>
<div>> GE Fanuc Automation</div>
<div>> Charlottesville, VA 22911</div>
<div>> Phone: 434-978-5181</div>
<div>> FAX: 434-978-5898</div>
<div>> e-mail: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>></div>
<div>></div>
<div>></div>
<br>
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<div>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:44:17 -0500</div>
<div>From: Graham Collins <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII</div>
<br>
<div>Hi Greg!</div>
<div>We recently bought an ErsaScope, after checking out the alternatives at Apex last year. There are a couple of companies making similar products, for similar prices. We went with the Ersa system. The Ersa seems more fully developed than the others - purpose built vs adapted. And viewing on the PC gives you some flexibility that the others didn't - just live video monitors typically.</div>
<br>
<div>The ErsaScope comes with some well developed software. Will you truly use all it's functions?? It depends, but we don't. The defect / QA library it comes with - we don't use. We use it for inspection, and for documenting things like problem parts.. It's great for taking pictures. We didn't go for the Magniscope option, if I had to do it again I might. </div>
<br>
<div>regards</div>
<br>
<div>Graham Collins</div>
<div>Process Engineer, </div>
<div>Northrop Grumman</div>
<div>Atlantic Facility of Litton Systems Canada</div>
<div>(902) 873-2000 ext 6215</div>
<br>
<div>>>> [log in to unmask] 12/07/01 12:43PM >>></div>
<div>> TechNet Friends,</div>
<div>> We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our</div>
<div>> X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It appears</div>
<div>> to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options to</div>
<div>> make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do add</div>
<div>> value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.</div>
<div>> I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated such</div>
<div>> tools.</div>
<div>> Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?</div>
<div>> Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they</div>
<div>> as fully developed as the ERSA?</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Thanks for your help with this one,</div>
<div>> I</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Greg Anderson</div>
<div>> Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer</div>
<div>> GE Fanuc Automation</div>
<div>> Charlottesville, VA 22911</div>
<div>> Phone: 434-978-5181</div>
<div>> FAX: 434-978-5898</div>
<div>> e-mail: [log in to unmask] </div>
<div>></div>
<div>></div>
<div>></div>
<br>
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</blockquote></x-html>
<html><div>Hi,</div>
<br>
<div>I will be back on 12/17/01.</div>
<br>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Jong</div>
</html>
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:56:29 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: jong s kadesch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 7 Dec 2001 (#2001-765))
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=====================_1325035==_.ALT"
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At 12:00 AM 12/8/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 00:00:03 -0600
>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: TechNet Digest - 7 Dec 2001 (#2001-765)
>To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There are 7 messages totalling 421 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. BGA Visual Inspection (2)
> 2. PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position (3)
> 3. BGA Rework Equipment (2)
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:49:57 EST
>From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>boundary="part1_177.5fb76f.29427765_boundary"
>
>Hi Greg!
>
>We've had a ERSA scope for about a year now, and I like it. We originally
>bought it because we ran into a problem with a BGA that we were placing on
>one of our customers boards. It was a super BGA from TI and they obsoleted
>it, the replacement from TI had a big metal heatsink in the top of it and
>the Glennbrook RTX-113 we have wasn't powerfull enough for us to see
>through it, so we bought the ERSA scope.
>
>It takes a little while to get used to using it, but I like it. X-ray can
>do things that the ERSA scope can't, and the ERSA scope can do things that
>X-ray can't. I feel that they compliment each other.
>
>There's been more than a few times that test has given me a board telling
>me that the BGA has shorted and needs replacing. I would inspect it under
>the ERSA scope and give it back to them telling them that there isn't a
>short on the BGA....sure enough, after they did some more trouble-shooting
>it turned out to be something else.
>
>-Steve Gregory-
>
>
>-Steve Gregory-
>
>
>>TechNet Friends,
>> > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
>> > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It appears
>> > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options to
>> > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do add
>> > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
>> > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated such
>> > tools.
>> > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
>> > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they
>> > as fully developed as the ERSA?
>> >
>> > Thanks for your help with this one,
>> > I
>> >
>> > Greg Anderson
>> > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
>> > GE Fanuc Automation
>> > Charlottesville, VA 22911
>> > Phone: 434-978-5181
>> > FAX: 434-978-5898
>> > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:01:22 -0600
>From: Scott Kauling <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position
>
>In IPC 2221 section 9.2.2 describes hole location tolerance, it is
>expressed as "diameter about true position". IPC T-50 defines "true
>position", not diameter about true position.
>
>My questions are:
>
> 1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true position?
>
> 2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify
> on your
>fab prints
>
> 3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position
> that PWB
>fabricators hold?
>
>Thanks in advance for your input.
>
>Have a good weekend!
>
>Scott Kauling
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:38:19 -0500
>From: "Roger M. Stoops" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true position?
>
>Table 9-3 defines the diameter about true position, or tolerance around
>true position expressed as a circular value, compared to the square
>tolerance area with non-GD&T dimensioning. IPC-2615 does a pretty good job
>explaining how GD&T works (for the curious). Figure 6-8 on page 28 of
>IPC-2615 helps answer your question.
>
>2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify on your
>fab prints?
>
>Though Table 9-3 specifies 0.2mm for Level B boards, I typically specify
>0.15mm, or 0.006, MMC. As the drill/hole size gets larger, the tolerance
>zone increases in size. For non-critical features, I specify 0.2mm or
>0.25mm.
>
>3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position that PWB
>fabricators hold?
>
>I'll leave this to one of our fabricator friends.
>
>Roger M. Stoops, C.I.D., PCB Designer
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>Trimble
>Engineering and Construction Division
>5475 Kellenburger Rd.
>Dayton, OH 45424-1099 USA
>Ph: +01 937.233.8921 or +01 937.233.4574 ext 288
>Fax: +01 937.233.7511
>
>
>
> Scott Kauling
> <skauling@TRI- To: [log in to unmask]
> ONICS.COM> cc:
> Sent by: Subject: [TN] PWB Fab Note
> Question - Diameter True Position
> TechNet
> <[log in to unmask]
> RG>
>
>
> 12/07/01 03:01
> PM
> Please respond
> to "TechNet
> E-Mail Forum."
>
>
>
>
>
>In IPC 2221 section 9.2.2 describes hole location tolerance, it is
>expressed as "diameter about true position". IPC T-50 defines "true
>position", not diameter about true position.
>
>My questions are:
>
> 1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true
>position?
>
> 2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify on
>your
>fab prints
>
> 3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position
>that PWB
>fabricators hold?
>
>Thanks in advance for your input.
>
>Have a good weekend!
>
>Scott Kauling
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:03:34 -0800
>From: "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>hi,
>
>true position can be expressed as a radius or a diameter. possibly this
>is what your dimension is telling you.
>
>phil
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Scott Kauling [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:01 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [TN] PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position
>
>
>In IPC 2221 section 9.2.2 describes hole location tolerance, it is
>expressed as "diameter about true position". IPC T-50 defines "true
>position", not diameter about true position.
>
>My questions are:
>
> 1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true position?
>
> 2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify
> on your
>fab prints
>
> 3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position
> that PWB
>fabricators hold?
>
>Thanks in advance for your input.
>
>Have a good weekend!
>
>Scott Kauling
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:42:08 -0600
>From: Will Cabrera <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: BGA Rework Equipment
>
>I work for a small OEM company and I am looking for BGA rework equipment
>for in-house use. We sub out our low-volume PCA assembly and ICT. Any
>recommendations on what BGA Rework equipment/supplier I can evaluate?
>
>Will
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:17:36 -0600
>From: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: BGA Rework Equipment
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>If you like to out source things just do the same for BGA repair, the good
>equipment (SRT) can be $50-70K and it requires
>a bit of experiance to get it right. Develop removal profiles, site
>clean-up and
> prep, repair damaged pads and mask, reballing
>BGAs, micro stencil paste, reflow profiles, This could be a long process to
>develope. Try to send out Citcuit Tech.
>http://www.circuittechctr.com/services/bga.htm
>is one of many who can do it. Good luck!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Will Cabrera <[log in to unmask]> on 12/07/2001 03:42:08 PM
>
>Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> cc: (bcc: Warren Crow/US/I-O INC)
>
>
>
> Subject: [TN] BGA Rework Equipment
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I work for a small OEM company and I am looking for BGA rework equipment
>for in-house use. We sub out our low-volume PCA assembly and ICT. Any
>recommendations on what BGA Rework equipment/supplier I can evaluate?
>
>Will
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet
>NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:22:23 -0800
>From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Look to the SMTA Knowledgebase for:
>
>09/24/2000 "COMBINING VISUAL AND X-RAY INSPECTION OF AREA ARRAY DEVICES "
>Douglas J. Peck, AEIC
>
>Dave Fish
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:43 AM
>Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection
>
>
> > > TechNet Friends,
> > > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
> > > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It
>appears
> > > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options
>to
> > > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do
>add
> > > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> > > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated such
> > > tools.
> > > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> > > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they
> > > as fully developed as the ERSA?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your help with this one,
> > > I
> > >
> > > Greg Anderson
> > > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> > > GE Fanuc Automation
> > > Charlottesville, VA 22911
> > > Phone: 434-978-5181
> > > FAX: 434-978-5898
> > > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
> >
Hi,
I will be back on 12/17/01.
Regards,
Jong
--=====================_1325035==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<html>
At 12:00 AM 12/8/01 -0600, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001
00:00:03 -0600<br>
Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
From: Automatic digest processor
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: TechNet Digest - 7 Dec 2001 (#2001-765)<br>
To: Recipients of TechNet digests
<[log in to unmask]><br>
<br>
There are 7 messages totalling 421 lines in this issue.<br>
<br>
Topics of the day:<br>
<br>
1. BGA Visual Inspection (2)<br>
2. PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position (3)<br>
3. BGA Rework Equipment (2)<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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ext.5315<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:49:57 EST<br>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory"
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_177.5fb76f.29427765_boundary"<br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2>Hi Greg! <br>
<br>
We've had a ERSA scope for about a year now, and I like it. We originally
bought it because we ran into a problem with a BGA that we were placing
on one of our customers boards. It was a super BGA from TI and they
obsoleted it, the replacement from TI had a big metal heatsink in the top
of it and the Glennbrook RTX-113 we have wasn't powerfull enough for us
to see through it, so we bought the ERSA scope. <br>
<br>
It takes a little while to get used to using it, but I like it. X-ray can
do things that the ERSA scope can't, and the ERSA scope can do things
that X-ray can't. I feel that they compliment each other. <br>
<br>
There's been more than a few times that test has given me a board telling
me that the BGA has shorted and needs replacing. I would inspect it under
the ERSA scope and give it back to them telling them that there isn't a
short on the BGA....sure enough, after they did some more
trouble-shooting it turned out to be something else. <br>
<br>
-Steve Gregory- <br>
<br>
<br>
-Steve Gregory- <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>TechNet Friends, <br>
> We are looking into visual
inspection of BGAs to supplement our <br>
> X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the
ERSASCOPE. It appears <br>
> to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the
options to <br>
> make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in
fact, do add <br>
> value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a
price. <br>
> I'm hoping to hear from people
who have personally evaluated such <br>
> tools. <br>
> Are all the features of the ERSA
truly benefits? <br>
> Are there other systems that do
what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they <br>
> as fully developed as the ERSA? <br>
> <br>
> Thanks for your help with this one, <br>
> I <br>
> <br>
> Greg Anderson <br>
> Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer <br>
> GE Fanuc Automation <br>
> Charlottesville, VA 22911 <br>
> Phone: 434-978-5181 <br>
> FAX: 434-978-5898 <br>
> e-mail: [log in to unmask] </font></blockquote><br>
<br>
<font face="arial">Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:01:22
-0600<br>
From: Scott Kauling
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position<br>
<br>
In IPC 2221 section 9.2.2 describes hole location tolerance, it is<br>
expressed as "diameter about true position". IPC T-50
defines "true<br>
position", not diameter about true position.<br>
<br>
My questions are:<br>
<br>
1. How does the diameter about
come into play with the true position?<br>
<br>
2. What tolerance of diameter
about true position do you specify on your<br>
fab prints<br>
<br>
3. What is the typical
capability of diameter about true position that PWB<br>
fabricators hold?<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance for your input.<br>
<br>
Have a good weekend!<br>
<br>
Scott Kauling<br>
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:38:19 -0500<br>
From: "Roger M. Stoops"
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true
position?<br>
<br>
Table 9-3 defines the diameter about true position, or tolerance
around<br>
true position expressed as a circular value, compared to the square<br>
tolerance area with non-GD&T dimensioning. IPC-2615 does a
pretty good job<br>
explaining how GD&T works (for the curious). Figure 6-8 on page
28 of<br>
IPC-2615 helps answer your question.<br>
<br>
2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify on
your<br>
fab prints?<br>
<br>
Though Table 9-3 specifies 0.2mm for Level B boards, I typically
specify<br>
0.15mm, or 0.006, MMC. As the drill/hole size gets larger, the
tolerance<br>
zone increases in size. For non-critical features, I specify 0.2mm
or<br>
0.25mm.<br>
<br>
3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position that
PWB<br>
fabricators hold?<br>
<br>
I'll leave this to one of our fabricator friends.<br>
<br>
Roger M. Stoops, C.I.D., PCB Designer<br>
[log in to unmask]<br>
<br>
<br>
Trimble<br>
Engineering and Construction Division<br>
5475 Kellenburger Rd.<br>
Dayton, OH 45424-1099 USA<br>
Ph: +01 937.233.8921 or +01 937.233.4574 ext 288<br>
Fax: +01 937.233.7511<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Scott Kauling<br>
<skauling@TRI-
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
ONICS.COM>
cc:<br>
Sent
by:
Subject: [TN] PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter
True Position<br>
TechNet<br>
<[log in to unmask]<br>
RG><br>
<br>
<br>
12/07/01 03:01<br>
PM<br>
Please respond<br>
to "TechNet<br>
E-Mail Forum."<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
In IPC 2221 section 9.2.2 describes hole location tolerance, it is<br>
expressed as "diameter about true position". IPC T-50
defines "true<br>
position", not diameter about true position.<br>
<br>
My questions are:<br>
<br>
1. How does the diameter about
come into play with the true<br>
position?<br>
<br>
2. What tolerance of diameter
about true position do you specify on<br>
your<br>
fab prints<br>
<br>
3. What is the typical
capability of diameter about true position<br>
that PWB<br>
fabricators hold?<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance for your input.<br>
<br>
Have a good weekend!<br>
<br>
Scott Kauling<br>
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:03:34 -0800<br>
From: "Crepeau, Phil"
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
hi,<br>
<br>
true position can be expressed as a radius or a diameter. possibly
this is what your dimension is telling you.<br>
<br>
phil<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Scott Kauling
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:01 PM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: [TN] PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position<br>
<br>
<br>
In IPC 2221 section 9.2.2 describes hole location tolerance, it is<br>
expressed as "diameter about true position". IPC T-50
defines "true<br>
position", not diameter about true position.<br>
<br>
My questions are:<br>
<br>
1. How does the diameter about
come into play with the true position?<br>
<br>
2. What tolerance of diameter
about true position do you specify on your<br>
fab prints<br>
<br>
3. What is the typical
capability of diameter about true position that PWB<br>
fabricators hold?<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance for your input.<br>
<br>
Have a good weekend!<br>
<br>
Scott Kauling<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
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To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in<br>
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To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
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Search previous postings at:
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Please visit IPC web site
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ext.5315<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:42:08 -0600<br>
From: Will Cabrera
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: BGA Rework Equipment<br>
<br>
I work for a small OEM company and I am looking for BGA rework
equipment<br>
for in-house use. We sub out our low-volume PCA assembly and ICT.
Any<br>
recommendations on what BGA Rework equipment/supplier I can
evaluate?<br>
<br>
Will<br>
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:17:36 -0600<br>
From: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: Re: BGA Rework Equipment<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
If you like to out source things just do the same for BGA repair, the
good<br>
equipment (SRT) can be $50-70K and it requires<br>
a bit of experiance to get it right. Develop removal profiles, site
clean-up and<br>
prep, repair damaged pads and mask, reballing<br>
BGAs, micro stencil paste, reflow profiles, This could be a long process
to<br>
develope. Try to send out Citcuit Tech.<br>
<a href="http://www.circuittechctr.com/services/bga.htm" eudora="autourl">http://www.circuittechctr.com/services/bga.htm</a><br>
is one of many who can do it. Good luck!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Will Cabrera <[log in to unmask]> on 12/07/2001 03:42:08
PM<br>
<br>
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."
<[log in to unmask]><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
<br>
cc: (bcc: Warren Crow/US/I-O
INC)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Subject: [TN] BGA Rework Equipment<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I work for a small OEM company and I am looking for BGA rework
equipment<br>
for in-house use. We sub out our low-volume PCA assembly and ICT.
Any<br>
recommendations on what BGA Rework equipment/supplier I can
evaluate?<br>
<br>
Will<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d<br>
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
in<br>
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet<br>
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
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NOMAIL<br>
Search previous postings at:
<a href="http://www.ipc.org/" eudora="autourl">www.ipc.org</a> >
On-Line Resources & Databases ><br>
E-mail Archives<br>
Please visit IPC web site
(<a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" eudora="autourl">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>)
for additional<br>
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700<br>
ext.5315<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:22:23 -0800<br>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<br>
<br>
Look to the SMTA Knowledgebase for:<br>
<br>
09/24/2000 "COMBINING VISUAL AND X-RAY INSPECTION OF
AREA ARRAY DEVICES "<br>
Douglas J. Peck, AEIC<br>
<br>
Dave Fish<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)"
<[log in to unmask]><br>
To: <[log in to unmask]><br>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:43 AM<br>
Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection<br>
<br>
<br>
> > TechNet Friends,<br>
> > We are looking into visual
inspection of BGAs to supplement our<br>
> > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the
ERSASCOPE. It<br>
appears<br>
> > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the
options<br>
to<br>
> > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools
in fact, do<br>
add<br>
> > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at
a price.<br>
> > I'm hoping to hear from
people who have personally evaluated such<br>
> > tools.<br>
> > Are all the features of the
ERSA truly benefits?<br>
> > Are there other systems
that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they<br>
> > as fully developed as the ERSA?<br>
> ><br>
> > Thanks for your help with this one,<br>
> > I<br>
> ><br>
> > Greg Anderson<br>
> > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer<br>
> > GE Fanuc Automation<br>
> > Charlottesville, VA 22911<br>
> > Phone: 434-978-5181<br>
> > FAX: 434-978-5898<br>
> > e-mail: [log in to unmask]<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
><br>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
-------<br>
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d<br>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
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> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
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>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
-------<br>
> </blockquote>Hi,<br>
<br>
I will be back on 12/17/01.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Jong<br>
</font></html>
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:56:29 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: jong s kadesch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 7 Dec 2001 to 8 Dec
2001 (#2001-766))
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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boundary="=====================_1325295==_.ALT"
--=====================_1325295==_.ALT
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At 12:00 AM 12/9/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 00:00:11 -0600
>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: TechNet Digest - 7 Dec 2001 to 8 Dec 2001 (#2001-766)
>To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There are 2 messages totalling 54 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. BGA Rework Equipment
> 2. Plating and Resin Recession
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
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>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 05:23:36 -0600
>From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: BGA Rework Equipment
>
>I really echo Warren's message. When first developing HP's BGA rework
>process, using SRT, it took three months to get everything almost right.
>Then, there were surprises needing rectification. It never really ended as
>new boards and components were designed and built plus CPI.
>
>The process first must be developed. It must be transferred to manufacturing
>including all procedures for everyone and all parts involved, or those
>perceived to be, it must be validated for each part on each board type, and
>operators must be trained for each shift. Though most all operators great at
>their jobs, some definitely caught on quicker and did consistently better
>jobs than others.
>
>Profiles alone can take much development time, and they're long themselves,
>no matter the paste or original assembly profile. Parts must be removed and
>sites cleaned and touched up and thoroughly inspected. A costly supply of
>nozzles must be bought as well. Micro stencils must be purchased and
>processes developed for their use. Part replacement and reflow processes
>must be right on. X-ray inspection is a must for rework, as it is for
>prototypes, before final test, and on it goes.
>
>This is a good one to "farm out." I think you already knew this or are an
>excellent rework engineer yourself.
>
>MoonMan
>Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 17:45:23 EST
>From: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Plating and Resin Recession
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Hi Roger,
>Thicker copper deposits have indeed greater (but not better) elongation
>values than thinner deposits. This, however, does not mean that thinner
>deposits have less ductility; the lower elongation value is an artifact of
>using a test method which is inappropriate for sample geometries like plated
>copper foils. Elongation tests work well for specimen for circular and square
>cross-section; foil specimen have a cross-sectional aspect ratio of 500 to
>1000, which creates this type of artifact.
>This is the reason test methods specific for foils (ASTM E 796 "Standard Test
>Method for Ductility Testing of Metallic Foil," IPC-TM-650, TM 2.4.2.1
>"Flexural Fatigue and Ductility, Foil" ) were developed. These test methods
>show there is no difference in ductility for thin or thick foils from the
>same batch.
Hi,
I will be back on 12/17/01.
Regards,
Jong
--=====================_1325295==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<x-html><div>At 12:00 AM 12/9/01 -0600, you wrote:</div>
<blockquote type=cite><div>Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001
00:00:11 -0600</div>
<div>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>From: Automatic digest processor
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: TechNet Digest - 7 Dec 2001 to 8 Dec 2001
(#2001-766)</div>
<div>To: Recipients of TechNet
digests <[log in to unmask]></div>
<br>
<div>There are 2 messages totalling 54 lines in this issue.</div>
<br>
<div>Topics of the day:</div>
<br>
<div> 1. BGA Rework Equipment</div>
<div> 2. Plating and Resin Recession</div>
<br>
<div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d</div>
<div>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in</div>
<div>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet</div>
<div>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:
SET Technet NOMAIL</div>
<div>Search previous postings at:
<a href="http://www.ipc.org/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>www.ipc.org</a> > On-Line
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<div>Please visit IPC web site
(<a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>)
for additional</div>
<div>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315</div>
<div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 05:23:36 -0600</div>
<div>From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: BGA Rework Equipment</div>
<br>
<div>I really echo Warren's message. When first developing HP's BGA
rework</div>
<div>process, using SRT, it took three months to get everything almost
right.</div>
<div>Then, there were surprises needing rectification. It never really
ended as</div>
<div>new boards and components were designed and built plus CPI.</div>
<br>
<div>The process first must be developed. It must be transferred to
manufacturing</div>
<div>including all procedures for everyone and all parts involved, or
those</div>
<div>perceived to be, it must be validated for each part on each board
type, and</div>
<div>operators must be trained for each shift. Though most all operators
great at</div>
<div>their jobs, some definitely caught on quicker and did consistently
better</div>
<div>jobs than others.</div>
<br>
<div>Profiles alone can take much development time, and they're long
themselves,</div>
<div>no matter the paste or original assembly profile. Parts must be
removed and</div>
<div>sites cleaned and touched up and thoroughly inspected. A costly
supply of</div>
<div>nozzles must be bought as well. Micro stencils must be purchased
and</div>
<div>processes developed for their use. Part replacement and reflow
processes</div>
<div>must be right on. X-ray inspection is a must for rework, as it is
for</div>
<div>prototypes, before final test, and on it goes.</div>
<br>
<div>This is a good one to "farm out." I think you already knew
this or are an</div>
<div>excellent rework engineer yourself.</div>
<br>
<div>MoonMan</div>
<div>Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 17:45:23 EST</div>
<div>From: Werner Engelmaier
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: Plating and Resin Recession</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"</div>
<div>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit</div>
<br>
<div>Hi Roger,</div>
<div>Thicker copper deposits have indeed greater (but not better)
elongation</div>
<div>values than thinner deposits. This, however, does not mean that
thinner</div>
<div>deposits have less ductility; the lower elongation value is an
artifact of</div>
<div>using a test method which is inappropriate for sample geometries
like plated</div>
<div>copper foils. Elongation tests work well for specimen for circular
and square</div>
<div>cross-section; foil specimen have a cross-sectional aspect ratio of
500 to</div>
<div>1000, which creates this type of artifact.</div>
<div>This is the reason test methods specific for foils (ASTM E 796
"Standard Test</div>
<div>Method for Ductility Testing of Metallic Foil," IPC-TM-650, TM
2.4.2.1</div>
<div>"Flexural Fatigue and Ductility, Foil" ) were developed.
These test methods</div>
<div>show there is no difference in ductility for thin or thick foils
from the</div>
same batch.
</blockquote></x-html>
<html><div>Hi,</div>
<br>
<div>I will be back on 12/17/01.</div>
<br>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Jong</div>
</html>
--=====================_1325295==_.ALT--
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:56:59 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: jong s kadesch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 10 Dec 2001 to 11 Dec
2001 - Special issue (#2001-771))
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At 12:12 PM 12/11/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:12:18 -0600
>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: TechNet Digest - 10 Dec 2001 to 11 Dec 2001 - Special issue=20
>(#2001-771)
>To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There are 15 messages totalling 922 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics in this special issue:
>
> 1. Shelve life for SMT/PTH components (3)
> 2. RF shielding
> 3. GEE Laminate Material? (5)
> 4. Sodium Silicate Contamination (5)
> 5. Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
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>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >=
=20
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700=20
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:12:15 -0800
>From: Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Hello,
>
>In general, what is the standard shelf life for the normal PTH and SMD
>components like DIP IC's, SOIC's, PLCC's?
>
>Assuming that they are non-MSD critical, what would be the proper
>storage method to ensure good solderability is being preserved (such as
>nitrogen storage chamber)?
>
>How significant is the impact of storage conditions (e.g. humidity,
>expose to ambient) and shelf life have on the solderability of component
>leads?
>
>
>Rgds,
>Peter
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:04:59 -0500
>From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: RF shielding
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>
>Good Morning Genny,
>In simple terms, if you ground the cage then it's no longer isolated. If
>each test station is grounded then the test stations are electrically
>connected and suspect to ground transients (talk about spurious output
>problems). Think of safety first, if you're using an RF PA that arcs to=
the
>grounded cage, what happens? Do you ground ESD bags?
>Keep it simple, if you select the appropriate mesh, based on your frequency
>and power, there won't be any bouncing or reflecting, just simple
>absorption.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Genny Gibbard [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 5:41 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] RF shielding
>
>
>Pardon me, but I'm not sure I understand why the cage should be isolated
>instead of grounded. Wouldn't 'grounding' the cage provide better
>'isolation' from test station to test station, instead of just bouncing or
>reflecting the signal, like I imagine an isolated cage would do?
>
>Currently we avoid crosstalk by planning what test stations are placed
>where, so that we don't put unshielded tests nearby critical spurious tests
>on another product line, for example. But as we get crowded, waiting for
>our new 'triple the size' production facility to be ready, we are running
>out of room to space our test stations adequately. In our new building,
>there will be no competing product line test benches backing on to each
>other - they will just have to worry about the ones to either side...
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:07:14 -0500
>From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: GEE Laminate Material?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>
>Hi All,
>
>I've got an call-out for GEE material but I can't find it in MIL-S-13949.
>Is there some other Mil spec I'm missing?
>
>Hans
>
>Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Hans M. Hinners
>Electronics Engineer
>Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
>226 Cochran Street
>Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
>
>mailto:[log in to unmask]
>
>Com: (478) 926 - 5224
>Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
>DSN Prefix: 468
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:10:09 -0500
>From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>
>Good morning Peter,
>I'm sure Dave Hillman will provide the most accurate response (IMHO) but
>until he comes around later in the day, I'll give my $.02.
>The first thing is to determine if the components are solderable upon
>receipt (reference J-STD-002) by performing a solderability test. If the
>leads/terminations pass the solderability test and no additional
>conditioning is performed, the components should be used within 120 days
>(guidance information developed under MIL-STD-2000 and predecessors).
>Longer storage can occur based on packaging, temperature, humidity and air
>particulates (i.e. dust, sulphur dioxide, chloride, ammonia). Previous
>guidance suggested that storage could be extended if storage conditions do
>not exceed 25=B0C and 50% RH, and sealed containers/bags are used. One=
note
>of caution is to ensure the storage containers/bags do not introduce
>contaminates (silicones, sulphur, polysulphides, etc.,) to the components
>that could degrade the solderability.
>As you mentioned, nitrogen storage is a good option, as it will minimize
>oxidation formation dependent on the purity and temp/humidity control, but
>this option comes with a cost.
>To summarize:
> - impose a solderability (coating durability) requirement on
>suppliers; component packaging requirements
> - verify solderability upon receipt or obtain certificate of
>compliance
> - develop FIFO material control
> - prepare for storage (repackage if necessary; original supplier
>packaging is usually suitable)
> - control environment
> - periodically perform solderability tests to determine adequacy=
of
>methods employed above.
>
>Good Luck!
>
>Steve Sauer
>Mfg Engineer
>Xetron Corporation
>
>-----Original Message-----
>In general, what is the standard shelf life for the normal PTH and SMD
>components like DIP IC's, SOIC's, PLCC's?
>
>Assuming that they are non-MSD critical, what would be the proper
>storage method to ensure good solderability is being preserved (such as
>nitrogen storage chamber)?
>
>How significant is the impact of storage conditions (e.g. humidity,
>expose to ambient) and shelf life have on the solderability of component
>leads?
>
>
>Rgds,
>Peter
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:33:14 -0500
>From: Keith Calhoun <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: GEE Laminate Material?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Hans,
>Try MIL-I-24768/2. We use this for insulating spacers, etc.
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:12:54 -0800
>From: Bernard Kessler <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: GEE Laminate Material?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Talk about senior moments----- GEE is the original G10 callout in the 18911
>Spec ---- the unclad epoxy glass laminates. It moved into the early 13949
>copper-clad spec as GE callout along with the GF (for FR4) and GH for G11.
>Early in our laminate history, we certified to the unclad spec even though
>the laminate had copper cladding --- there was no spec for copper.
>Happy memories to all
>Bernie Kessler
>
>***************************************************************************=
*
>*
>Bernard Kessler & Associates Ltd
>Tel: 714-898-8422 Fax: 562-431-1741
>www.home.earthlink.net/~bkesslerbka/
> Service is our Profession
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 6:07 AM
>Subject: [TN] GEE Laminate Material?
>
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I've got an call-out for GEE material but I can't find it in=
MIL-S-13949.
> > Is there some other Mil spec I'm missing?
> >
> > Hans
> >
> > Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Hans M. Hinners
> > Electronics Engineer
> > Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
> > 226 Cochran Street
> > Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
> >
> > mailto:[log in to unmask]
> >
> > Com: (478) 926 - 5224
> > Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
> > DSN Prefix: 468
> >
> >=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text=
in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases=
>
>E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
> >=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:24:01 +0200
>From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: GEE Laminate Material?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Gee, Bernie, your memory is good. Guess us old timers can still earn our
>living!
>
>Best regards,
>
>Brian
>
>Bernard Kessler wrote:
> >
> > Talk about senior moments----- GEE is the original G10 callout in the=
18911
> > Spec ---- the unclad epoxy glass laminates. It moved into the early=
13949
> > copper-clad spec as GE callout along with the GF (for FR4) and GH for=
G11.
> > Early in our laminate history, we certified to the unclad spec even=
though
> > the laminate had copper cladding --- there was no spec for copper.
> > Happy memories to all
> > Bernie Kessler
> >
> >=20
>=
***************************************************************************=
*
> > *
> > Bernard Kessler & Associates Ltd
> > Tel: 714-898-8422 Fax: 562-431-1741
> > www.home.earthlink.net/~bkesslerbka/
> > Service is our Profession
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 6:07 AM
> > Subject: [TN] GEE Laminate Material?
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > I've got an call-out for GEE material but I can't find it in=
MIL-S-13949.
> > > Is there some other Mil spec I'm missing?
> > >
> > > Hans
> > >
> > > Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Hans M. Hinners
> > > Electronics Engineer
> > > Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
> > > 226 Cochran Street
> > > Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
> > >
> > > mailto:[log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > Com: (478) 926 - 5224
> > > Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
> > > DSN Prefix: 468
> > >
> > >=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV=
1.8d
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> > additional
> > > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or=
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> > ext.5315
> > >=20
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> >
> >=20
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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> -------
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:35:19 -0700
>From: "Faraci, Jennifer L" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Sodium Silicate Contamination
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>
>Does anybody have any information regarding Sodium Silicate particle
>contamination? I'm looking for information regarding it's effect on
>circuit cards, other equipment, and any possible health concerns it may
>cause.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jennifer
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:00:00 +0200
>From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Jennifer
>
>What do you mean by sodium silicate? If we take this literally with the
>formula Na0(n)SiO2, where n is usually between 3 and 6, you are in deep
>trouble. This is a deliquescent, amorphous substance which will turn
>into waterglass by absorption of atmospheric humidity. Apart from this,
>it becomes a viscous liquid to which anything will stick.
>
>Sodium disilicate, metasilicate and orthosilicate aren't quite as bad,
>but are nearly so. They are all highly water-soluble and may be
>hygroscopic, to some extent.
>
>Brian
>
>
>"Faraci, Jennifer L" wrote:
> >
> > Does anybody have any information regarding Sodium Silicate particle
> > contamination? I'm looking for information regarding it's effect on
> > circuit cards, other equipment, and any possible health concerns it may
> > cause.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jennifer
> >
> >=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
> -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text=
in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET=
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> Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources &=20
> Databases > E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=20
> additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or=20
> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> >=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
> -------
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:12:46 EST
>From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Jennifer:
>
>Allow me to ask why you are interested, and where you have the potential=
for
>contamination by Sodium Silicate.
>
>Sodium Silicate is a very common ingredient in water based alkaline (read
>this as high pH) detergents, and is commonly used as an anti-tarnish,
>anti-corrosion agent in these detergents. Most machine dishwashing=
compounds
>have sodium silicate in them.
>
>It can cause problems if the pH of the cleaner gets too low, as it always
>does in a rinse. It can also cause problems in high water hardness, where=
it
>reacts with the water hardness, and falls out of solution as typically
>Calcium Silicate.
>
>And even if you have enough water softener in the detergent to overcome the
>hardness in the cleaner itself, in the rinse you can still generate Calcium
>Silicate.
>
>My recommendation is to avoid Sodium Silicate in general, unless you have a
>well formulated product with enough water softeners, and a good,
>non-recirculating rinse.
>
>Rudy Sedlak
>RD Chemical Company
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:18:04 -0500
>From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>
>Jennifer,
>It all depends... our favourite answer.
>
>There are hundreds of sodium silicates but lets keep it to the families=
that
>are the most likely - short chain, long chain and zeolites (which are=
sodium
>aluminosilicates). The first are soluble and the last will exchange sodium
>ions for higher charged ions. This would be bad news. If we are talking
>about drying packets (silica gel) then my concern would be were they
>properly washed to remove all soluble silicates before the particles were
>dried to be activated to absorb moisture.
>
>regards,
>Bev Christian
>Research in Motion
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Faraci, Jennifer L [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: December 11, 2001 11:35 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [TN] Sodium Silicate Contamination
>
>
>Does anybody have any information regarding Sodium Silicate particle
>contamination? I'm looking for information regarding it's effect on
>circuit cards, other equipment, and any possible health concerns it may
>cause.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jennifer
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:26:40 -0600
>From: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=3D"=3D_F2AFD5F1.CCADCBB1"
>
>In addition to the good solderability info from Steve in this msg thread,=
=20
>moisture sensitivity needs to be considered. J-STD-020 is used by=20
>component manufacturers to classify the moisture sensitivity level of=20
>components (how easily they will "popcorn" in reflow). J-STD-033 is a=20
>companion standard for packaging and labeling the components for storage=20
>and includes some time requirements and bakeout guidelines. You can see=20
>table of contents and scope/purpose info by downloading from=20
><http://www.ipc.org/TOC/J-STD-033.pdf>http://www.ipc.org/TOC/J-STD-033.pdf
>
>Remember that bakeout can affect solderability.
>
>Jack
>
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>APEX - the industry's premier trade show in Electronics
>Manufacturing, January 22-24, 2002, San Diego, California.
>More information on website <http://www.goapex.org>www.goapex.org
>--------
>Jack Crawford, IPC Director of Assembly Standards and Technology
>2215 Sanders Road, Northbrook IL 60062-6135
><mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]
>847-790-5393
>fax 847-504-2393
>
> >>> [log in to unmask] 12/11/01 08:10AM >>>
>Good morning Peter,
>I'm sure Dave Hillman will provide the most accurate response (IMHO) but
>until he comes around later in the day, I'll give my $.02.
>The first thing is to determine if the components are solderable upon
>receipt (reference J-STD-002) by performing a solderability test. If the
>leads/terminations pass the solderability test and no additional
>conditioning is performed, the components should be used within 120 days
>(guidance information developed under MIL-STD-2000 and predecessors).
>Longer storage can occur based on packaging, temperature, humidity and air
>particulates (i.e. dust, sulphur dioxide, chloride, ammonia). Previous
>guidance suggested that storage could be extended if storage conditions do
>not exceed 25=B0C and 50% RH, and sealed containers/bags are used. One=
note
>of caution is to ensure the storage containers/bags do not introduce
>contaminates (silicones, sulphur, polysulphides, etc.,) to the components
>that could degrade the solderability.
>As you mentioned, nitrogen storage is a good option, as it will minimize
>oxidation formation dependent on the purity and temp/humidity control, but
>this option comes with a cost.
>To summarize:
> - impose a solderability (coating durability) requirement on
>suppliers; component packaging requirements
> - verify solderability upon receipt or obtain certificate of
>compliance
> - develop FIFO material control
> - prepare for storage (repackage if necessary; original supplier
>packaging is usually suitable)
> - control environment
> - periodically perform solderability tests to determine adequacy=
of
>methods employed above.
>
>Good Luck!
>
>Steve Sauer
>Mfg Engineer
>Xetron Corporation
>
>-----Original Message-----
>In general, what is the standard shelf life for the normal PTH and SMD
>components like DIP IC's, SOIC's, PLCC's?
>
>Assuming that they are non-MSD critical, what would be the proper
>storage method to ensure good solderability is being preserved (such as
>nitrogen storage chamber)?
>
>How significant is the impact of storage conditions (e.g. humidity,
>expose to ambient) and shelf life have on the solderability of component
>leads?
>
>
>Rgds,
>Peter
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:35:57 -0700
>From: "Faraci, Jennifer L" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain
>
>We've found sodium silicate particles on equipment due to over application
>of floor sealant. I'm looking for information regarding if it will effect
>our equipment performance either electrically or mechanically, or the=
health
>of employees who use it. If a complete cleaning is necessary, what would=
be
>the best way to remove the sodium sulfate contamination without damaging=
our
>equipment?
>
>Jennifer
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: <Rudy Sedlak> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 10:13 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] Sodium Silicate Contamination
>
>
>Jennifer:
>
>Allow me to ask why you are interested, and where you have the potential=
for
>contamination by Sodium Silicate.
>
>Sodium Silicate is a very common ingredient in water based alkaline (read
>this as high pH) detergents, and is commonly used as an anti-tarnish,
>anti-corrosion agent in these detergents. Most machine dishwashing
>compounds
>have sodium silicate in them.
>
>It can cause problems if the pH of the cleaner gets too low, as it always
>does in a rinse. It can also cause problems in high water hardness, where
>it
>reacts with the water hardness, and falls out of solution as typically
>Calcium Silicate.
>
>And even if you have enough water softener in the detergent to overcome the
>hardness in the cleaner itself, in the rinse you can still generate Calcium
>Silicate.
>
>My recommendation is to avoid Sodium Silicate in general, unless you have a
>well formulated product with enough water softeners, and a good,
>non-recirculating rinse.
>
>Rudy Sedlak
>RD Chemical Company
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:46:57 -0500
>From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: GEE Laminate Material?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>
>Bernie,
>
>You are the man!
>I was guessing it had to be G-10 from the look of the stuff but I still=
need
>to document it.
>Now onto the IHS website to look the bloody thing up.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Hans
>Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Hans M. Hinners
>Electronics Engineer
>Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
>226 Cochran Street
>Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
>
>mailto:[log in to unmask]
>
>Com: (478) 926 - 5224
>Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
>DSN Prefix: 468
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bernard Kessler [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:13 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] GEE Laminate Material?
>
>
>Talk about senior moments----- GEE is the original G10 callout in the 18911
>Spec ---- the unclad epoxy glass laminates. It moved into the early 13949
>copper-clad spec as GE callout along with the GF (for FR4) and GH for G11.
>Early in our laminate history, we certified to the unclad spec even though
>the laminate had copper cladding --- there was no spec for copper.
>Happy memories to all
>Bernie Kessler
>
>***************************************************************************=
*
>*
>Bernard Kessler & Associates Ltd
>Tel: 714-898-8422 Fax: 562-431-1741
>www.home.earthlink.net/~bkesslerbka/
> Service is our Profession
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 6:07 AM
>Subject: [TN] GEE Laminate Material?
>
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I've got an call-out for GEE material but I can't find it in=
MIL-S-13949.
> > Is there some other Mil spec I'm missing?
> >
> > Hans
> >
> > Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Hans M. Hinners
> > Electronics Engineer
> > Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
> > 226 Cochran Street
> > Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
> >
> > mailto:[log in to unmask]
> >
> > Com: (478) 926 - 5224
> > Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
> > DSN Prefix: 468
> >
> >=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text=
in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>Technet NOMAIL
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>
>E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
> >=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
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>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:06:46 -0800
>From: Rick Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>We're looking at possibly installing a new line and I'm hoping some of
>you might care to share your opinions, recommendations, pro or con on
>Panasonic, Siemens, Fuji from current users. If you have any insight
>you wouldn't mind sharing, please contact me offline.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
>Rick Thompson
>Ventura Electronics Assembly
>2655 Park Center Dr.
>Simi Valley, CA 93065
>
>+1 (805) 584-9858 x-304 voice
>+1 (805) 584-1529 fax
>[log in to unmask]
Hi,
I will be back on 12/17/01.
Regards,
Jong
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:56:44 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: jong s kadesch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 10 Dec 2001
(#2001-770))
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=====================_1326307==_.ALT"
--=====================_1326307==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 12:00 AM 12/11/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:00:04 -0600
>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: TechNet Digest - 10 Dec 2001 (#2001-770)
>To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There are 6 messages totalling 573 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. RF shielding (2)
> 2. BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction
> 3. BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction (OOOPs)
> 4. Conformal Coating Process
> 5. Looking for flex design and build shop
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
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>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
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>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:24:03 -0500
>From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: RF shielding
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Here's the additional link, that I was referring to from an earlier post:
>http://www.herzan.com/emi.htm
>I don't know of the cost or delivery -- just remember seeing this product
>while browsing for similar information. Again, good luck.
>
>Steve Sauer
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:41:11 -0600
>From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: RF shielding
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Pardon me, but I'm not sure I understand why the cage should be isolated
>instead of grounded. Wouldn't 'grounding' the cage provide better
>'isolation' from test station to test station, instead of just bouncing or
>reflecting the signal, like I imagine an isolated cage would do?
>
>Currently we avoid crosstalk by planning what test stations are placed
>where, so that we don't put unshielded tests nearby critical spurious tests
>on another product line, for example. But as we get crowded, waiting for
>our new 'triple the size' production facility to be ready, we are running
>out of room to space our test stations adequately. In our new building,
>there will be no competing product line test benches backing on to each
>other - they will just have to worry about the ones to either side...
>
>Thanks.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sauer, Steven T. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: December 10, 2001 3:18 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] RF shielding
>
>
>Hi Genny,
>To further the info from Phil, here's some info regarding the copper
>screening material: http://www.twpinc.com/rfi.html
>You can make a screen cage with 2x4's, mesh, lag bolts and washers. The
>critical thing would be to ensure that the washer completely covers the hole
>made in the screen for the lag bolt to pass through. One side note, the
>cage doesn't need to be grounded, it should be isolated.
>There are some commercially available products that may fit your needs, such
>as a portable "tent" that is made of aluminum poles and EMI shielded
>material. If I can find that information, I'll pass it along later....
>Good Luck.
>
>Steve Sauer
>Mfg Engineer
>Xetron Corporation
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Phil Nutting [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>You could try copper window screen material....
>I seen this successfully used for a high voltage faraday cage and it is also
>used on our EMC compliance test room.
>
>Phil Nutting
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Genny Gibbard [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Looking for ideas - preferably more along the lines of homemade basket
>idea..... RF screen or something that we can mount and ground between the
>benches to reduce what we call 'crosstalk'.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:50:47 -0800
>From: Paul Gill <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Glenn Woodhouse,
>
>How are thing in Nampa?
>
>It's been a while.
>
>I was searching through the Technet (I have about 2700 unread in a folder)
>and I came across your name. This was from a post back in August.
>
>A couple mouse clicks later and I notice that you posted today from
>MCMS. Glad to hear that your still there.
>
>Are things going well? Comparatively?
>
>BTW the e-mail back in august had some great information about AOI.
>Did MCMS purchase an AOI? Can you tell me which one? Are you happy with
>the choice?
>
>Thanks
>
>Paul Gill
>Sr. Process Development Engineer
>Finisar Corporation
>1 408 541 5626
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Glenn Woodhouse
>Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 9:06 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction
>
>
>Whoops. For anyone trying to search for the BGA inspection scope I posted
>on, I completely botched the spelling of the company and product. The
>company is "Caltex", and the scope is the "Hirox" at www.bgascope.com. You
>can find the ERSA Scope at www.ersa.de.
>
>Sorry for any inconvenience,
>
> Glenn Woodhouse
> MCMS
>Advanced Technology Development
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Glenn Woodhouse
> > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:35 AM
> > To: 'TechNet'
> > Subject: RE: BGA Visual Inspection
> >
> > Greg,
> >
> > The ERSA is a fine piece of equipment. When considering it you must take
> > into account the production environment it must survive. The prism used
> > in the tip is vulnerable to damage (i.e., collisions with components such
> > as caps and resistors around BGA's). Replacement is costly and requires
> > sending the tip assembly to ERSA for replacement. When we evaluated the
> > ERSA Scope a year ago, the repair process was to provide ERSA with a p.o.
> > (several hundred $'s), they would send out a loaner tip, you would send
> > your tip to ERSA where it would be repaired in Germany, weeks later you
> > would receive your tip back and either be partially credited or
> > additionally billed depending on the extent of the damage and difficulty
> > of the repair, and then you would send the loaner back to ERSA. This
> > cumbersome and costly process may have since changed but you would want to
> > check into this.
> >
> > There is another scope, the Cal-Tech "Hi-Roc" scope that is very similar
> > in cost and performance but utilizes easily replaceable (takes minutes
> > with your own people) plastic prisms. We did a side-to-side comparison
> > and this is what we ultimately bought. We could not discern any
> > appreciable difference in optical quality between the two although the
> > Hi-Roc uses a plastic prism and the ERSA uses a glass one. Because we
> > were using the scope in a volume production inspection process we couldn't
> > live with the replacement costs associated with the ERSA. Within the
> > first couple of months we replaced at least four prisms until the
> > production shifts got comfortable with the level of delicacy associated
> > with this type of equipment.
> >
> > If you will be using your scope in more of a lab inspection environment
> > with control over who is using the scope and the training they have
> > received, this level of prism damage likely won't occur, but in my humble
> > opinion it is still a matter of "when" the prism gets damaged, not "if".
> >
> > ERSA has a very nice software package available with their machine that
> > includes prepopulated component images that display acceptable and
> > rejectable conditions along with the live image of the part under
> > inspection, including potential root cause comments. You can add to and
> > customize this image/comment library for your own criteria and conditions.
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Glenn Woodhouse
> > MCMS
> > Advanced Technology Development
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:43 AM
> > Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection
> >
> >
> > > > TechNet Friends,
> > > > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
> > > > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It
> > appears
> > > > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options
> > to
> > > > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do
> > add
> > > > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> > > > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated
> > such
> > > > tools.
> > > > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> > > > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are
> > they
> > > > as fully developed as the ERSA?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your help with this one,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Greg Anderson
> > > > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> > > > GE Fanuc Automation
> > > > Charlottesville, VA 22911
> > > > Phone: 434-978-5181
> > > > FAX: 434-978-5898
> > > > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:58:38 -0800
>From: Paul Gill <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction (OOOPs)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>My last post was intended only for Glenn.
>
>Some times the fingers are faster than the mind.
>
>Paul Gill
>Sr. Process Development Engineer
>Finisar Corporation
>1 408 541 5626
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Gill [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:51 PM
>To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.
>Subject: RE: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction
>
>
>Glenn Woodhouse,
>
>How are thing in Nampa?
>
>It's been a while.
>
>I was searching through the Technet (I have about 2700 unread in a folder)
>and I came across your name. This was from a post back in August.
>
>A couple mouse clicks later and I notice that you posted today from
>MCMS. Glad to hear that your still there.
>
>Are things going well? Comparatively?
>
>BTW the e-mail back in august had some great information about AOI.
>Did MCMS purchase an AOI? Can you tell me which one? Are you happy with
>the choice?
>
>Thanks
>
>Paul Gill
>Sr. Process Development Engineer
>Finisar Corporation
>1 408 541 5626
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Glenn Woodhouse
>Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 9:06 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction
>
>
>Whoops. For anyone trying to search for the BGA inspection scope I posted
>on, I completely botched the spelling of the company and product. The
>company is "Caltex", and the scope is the "Hirox" at www.bgascope.com. You
>can find the ERSA Scope at www.ersa.de.
>
>Sorry for any inconvenience,
>
> Glenn Woodhouse
> MCMS
>Advanced Technology Development
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Glenn Woodhouse
> > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:35 AM
> > To: 'TechNet'
> > Subject: RE: BGA Visual Inspection
> >
> > Greg,
> >
> > The ERSA is a fine piece of equipment. When considering it you must take
> > into account the production environment it must survive. The prism used
> > in the tip is vulnerable to damage (i.e., collisions with components such
> > as caps and resistors around BGA's). Replacement is costly and requires
> > sending the tip assembly to ERSA for replacement. When we evaluated the
> > ERSA Scope a year ago, the repair process was to provide ERSA with a p.o.
> > (several hundred $'s), they would send out a loaner tip, you would send
> > your tip to ERSA where it would be repaired in Germany, weeks later you
> > would receive your tip back and either be partially credited or
> > additionally billed depending on the extent of the damage and difficulty
> > of the repair, and then you would send the loaner back to ERSA. This
> > cumbersome and costly process may have since changed but you would want to
> > check into this.
> >
> > There is another scope, the Cal-Tech "Hi-Roc" scope that is very similar
> > in cost and performance but utilizes easily replaceable (takes minutes
> > with your own people) plastic prisms. We did a side-to-side comparison
> > and this is what we ultimately bought. We could not discern any
> > appreciable difference in optical quality between the two although the
> > Hi-Roc uses a plastic prism and the ERSA uses a glass one. Because we
> > were using the scope in a volume production inspection process we couldn't
> > live with the replacement costs associated with the ERSA. Within the
> > first couple of months we replaced at least four prisms until the
> > production shifts got comfortable with the level of delicacy associated
> > with this type of equipment.
> >
> > If you will be using your scope in more of a lab inspection environment
> > with control over who is using the scope and the training they have
> > received, this level of prism damage likely won't occur, but in my humble
> > opinion it is still a matter of "when" the prism gets damaged, not "if".
> >
> > ERSA has a very nice software package available with their machine that
> > includes prepopulated component images that display acceptable and
> > rejectable conditions along with the live image of the part under
> > inspection, including potential root cause comments. You can add to and
> > customize this image/comment library for your own criteria and conditions.
> >
> > Good Luck,
> >
> > Glenn Woodhouse
> > MCMS
> > Advanced Technology Development
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:43 AM
> > Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection
> >
> >
> > > > TechNet Friends,
> > > > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our
> > > > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It
> > appears
> > > > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options
> > to
> > > > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do
> > add
> > > > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price.
> > > > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated
> > such
> > > > tools.
> > > > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits?
> > > > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are
> > they
> > > > as fully developed as the ERSA?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your help with this one,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Greg Anderson
> > > > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
> > > > GE Fanuc Automation
> > > > Charlottesville, VA 22911
> > > > Phone: 434-978-5181
> > > > FAX: 434-978-5898
> > > > e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:17:54 -0000
>From: Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Conformal Coating Process
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Doug and Jim
>
>In respect to the suggestions Doug makes, could you just be sure that you
>are manufacturing assemblies that are broadly in-line with the "coupon
>design" outlined in J-Std001/004/TM650 etc..
>
>Latest research suggests that "older" designs might yield grossly misleading
>reliability data (SIR results) - you really must test to conditions to which
>your finished assembly shall be subjected.
>
>"Cleaning" to a value of less than 2 megohm/cm also means that it is
>acceptable to leave up to that amount of "salt" on every square cm of the
>assembly, but fine-line; fine-pitch; COB, BGA etc., might well demand a far
>lower value. I know of many that work to less than 0.2 megohm/cm for this
>very reason.
>
>Regards, Graham Naisbitt
>
>[log in to unmask]
>www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
>
>For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of
>http:// www.concoat.co.uk <http://www.concoat.co.uk>
>
>Concoat Limited
>Alasan House, Albany Park
>CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK
>Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100
>Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227
>Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
>[log in to unmask]
>Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 02:12
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coating Process
>
>
>I'm trying to qualify a new cleaning process for electrical assemblies
>prior
>to conformal coating (Military boards). The old MIL Specs had as
>cleanliness requirement of 2 meg-ohms minimum, is this all I need to do,
>verify cleanliness to 2 meg-ohms? What about subjecting the assemblies to
>10-day elevated temp/humidity (steady state)? Any recommendations?
>
>*Jim, to your first question, Yes. When changing a cleaning operation, and
>not changing fluxes, MIL-STD-2000A only required Appendix C testing, which
>was the standard ROSE test. The 2 megohm-cm requirement translates to the
>more familiar 10.06 micrograms sodium chloride equivalence per square inch,
>whatever that becomes translated to the specific ionic cleanliness tester.
>We all know what a crock that test is, but it still exists, especially in
>military contracts.
>
>Two questions you should be asking: What data does my customer need to
>see? and I just trying to meet contractual requirements or REALLY show that
>the change is not detrimental?
>
>If the customer leaves it totally to you, then I suggest that you do both.
>The ROSE test, bogus as it may be, is very easy to do and satisfies the
>contractually focussed types. As to a longer temperature-humidity
>exposure, that is a fairly good idea. What tests to you perform now to
>tell you if product is good or bad? Do that same test but extend the test
>time about 50% and run on hardware cleaned with the new method. At
>Collins, our products go through -55 to 125C cycling to catch infant
>mortality types of failures, er...ahhh... not that we EVER see such
>failures, mind you....., and when we have a process change, we use the same
>environmental screen.
>
>Doug Pauls
>Rockwell Collins
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
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>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>Technet NOMAIL
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>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:49:12 -0800
>From: Debbie Kenney <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Looking for flex design and build shop
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain
>
>Hi Terri,
>
>We have a lot of experience with this type of flex. Please check out our
>website at www.mflex.com.
>
>Debbie Kenney
>Engineer
>M-Flex / AMT
>Direct (714) 688-5242
>Fax (714) 996-3834
>[log in to unmask]
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Houston, Terri [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 5:20 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [TN] Looking for flex design and build shop
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I'm looking for a shop to design and build an oddly twisted, Y-shaped flex
> > circuit with connectors at the 3 ends. It must be shielded (3 layer) and
> > must withstand temperatures from -40 to 100C. Volumes are relatively low
> > (a
> > few thousand/year).
> >
> > If any of you have good experience with such a shop that does this for a
> > living, please send me contact information off TechNet.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Terri
> >
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
> > Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
> > E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> > additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> > ext.5315
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
Hi,
I will be back on 12/17/01.
Regards,
Jong
--=====================_1326307==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<x-html><div>At 12:00 AM 12/11/01 -0600, you wrote:</div>
<blockquote type=cite><div>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001
00:00:04 -0600</div>
<div>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>From: Automatic digest processor
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: TechNet Digest - 10 Dec 2001 (#2001-770)</div>
<div>To: Recipients of TechNet
digests <[log in to unmask]></div>
<br>
<div>There are 6 messages totalling 573 lines in this issue.</div>
<br>
<div>Topics of the day:</div>
<br>
<div> 1. RF shielding (2)</div>
<div> 2. BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction</div>
<div> 3. BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction (OOOPs)</div>
<div> 4. Conformal Coating Process</div>
<div> 5. Looking for flex design and build shop</div>
<br>
<div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d</div>
<div>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in</div>
<div>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet</div>
<div>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:
SET Technet NOMAIL</div>
<div>Search previous postings at:
<a href="http://www.ipc.org/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>www.ipc.org</a> > On-Line
Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives</div>
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(<a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>)
for additional</div>
<div>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315</div>
<div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:24:03 -0500</div>
<div>From: "Sauer, Steven T."
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: RF shielding</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<br>
<div>Here's the additional link, that I was referring to from an earlier
post:</div>
<div><a href="http://www.herzan.com/emi.htm" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.herzan.com/emi.htm</a></div>
<div>I don't know of the cost or delivery -- just remember seeing this
product</div>
<div>while browsing for similar information. Again, good
luck.</div>
<br>
<div>Steve Sauer</div>
<div>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:41:11 -0600</div>
<div>From: Genny Gibbard
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: RF shielding</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<br>
<div>Pardon me, but I'm not sure I understand why the cage should be
isolated</div>
<div>instead of grounded. Wouldn't 'grounding' the cage provide
better</div>
<div>'isolation' from test station to test station, instead of just
bouncing or</div>
<div>reflecting the signal, like I imagine an isolated cage would
do?</div>
<br>
<div>Currently we avoid crosstalk by planning what test stations are
placed</div>
<div>where, so that we don't put unshielded tests nearby critical
spurious tests</div>
<div>on another product line, for example. But as we get crowded,
waiting for</div>
<div>our new 'triple the size' production facility to be ready, we are
running</div>
<div>out of room to space our test stations adequately. In our new
building,</div>
<div>there will be no competing product line test benches backing on to
each</div>
<div>other - they will just have to worry about the ones to either
side...</div>
<br>
<div>Thanks.</div>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: Sauer, Steven T.
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]</div>
<div>Sent: December 10, 2001 3:18 PM</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [TN] RF shielding</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Hi Genny,</div>
<div>To further the info from Phil, here's some info regarding the
copper</div>
<div>screening material:
<a href="http://www.twpinc.com/rfi.html" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.twpinc.com/rfi.html</a></div>
<div>You can make a screen cage with 2x4's, mesh, lag bolts and
washers. The</div>
<div>critical thing would be to ensure that the washer completely covers
the hole</div>
<div>made in the screen for the lag bolt to pass through. One side
note, the</div>
<div>cage doesn't need to be grounded, it should be isolated.</div>
<div>There are some commercially available products that may fit your
needs, such</div>
<div>as a portable "tent" that is made of aluminum poles and
EMI shielded</div>
<div>material. If I can find that information, I'll pass it along
later....</div>
<div>Good Luck.</div>
<br>
<div>Steve Sauer</div>
<div>Mfg Engineer</div>
<div>Xetron Corporation</div>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: Phil Nutting
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]</div>
<div>You could try copper window screen material....</div>
<div>I seen this successfully used for a high voltage faraday cage and it
is also</div>
<div>used on our EMC compliance test room.</div>
<br>
<div>Phil Nutting</div>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: Genny Gibbard
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]</div>
<div>Looking for ideas - preferably more along the lines of homemade
basket</div>
<div>idea..... RF screen or something that we can mount and ground
between the</div>
<div>benches to reduce what we call 'crosstalk'.</div>
<br>
<div>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>-----</div>
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1.8d</div>
<div>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in</div>
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<div>Technet NOMAIL</div>
<div>Search previous postings at:
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<div>Please visit IPC web site
(<a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>)
for additional</div>
<div>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700</div>
<div>ext.5315</div>
<div>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>-----</div>
<div>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:50:47 -0800</div>
<div>From: Paul Gill <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<div>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit</div>
<br>
<div>Glenn Woodhouse,</div>
<br>
<div>How are thing in Nampa?</div>
<br>
<div>It's been a while.</div>
<br>
<div>I was searching through the Technet (I have about 2700 unread in a
folder)</div>
<div>and I came across your name. This was from a post back in
August.</div>
<br>
<div>A couple mouse clicks later and I notice that you posted today
from</div>
<div>MCMS. Glad to hear that your still there.</div>
<br>
<div>Are things going well? Comparatively?</div>
<br>
<div>BTW the e-mail back in august had some great information about
AOI.</div>
<div>Did MCMS purchase an AOI? Can you tell me which one? Are
you happy with</div>
<div>the choice?</div>
<br>
<div>Thanks</div>
<br>
<div>Paul Gill</div>
<div>Sr. Process Development Engineer</div>
<div>Finisar Corporation</div>
<div>1 408 541 5626</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: TechNet
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]]On</a>
Behalf Of Glenn Woodhouse</div>
<div>Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 9:06 AM</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Whoops. For anyone trying to search for the BGA inspection
scope I posted</div>
<div>on, I completely botched the spelling of the company and
product. The</div>
<div>company is "Caltex", and the scope is the
"Hirox" at
<a href="http://www.bgascope.com/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>www.bgascope.com</a>.
You</div>
<div>can find the ERSA Scope at
<a href="http://www.ersa.de/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>www.ersa.de</a>.</div>
<br>
<div>Sorry for any inconvenience,</div>
<br>
<div> Glenn
Woodhouse</div>
<div>
MCMS</div>
<div>Advanced Technology Development</div>
<br>
<div>> -----Original Message-----</div>
<div>> From: Glenn Woodhouse</div>
<div>> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:35 AM</div>
<div>> To: 'TechNet'</div>
<div>> Subject: RE: BGA Visual
Inspection</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Greg,</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> The ERSA is a fine piece of equipment. When considering
it you must take</div>
<div>> into account the production environment it must survive.
The prism used</div>
<div>> in the tip is vulnerable to damage (i.e., collisions with
components such</div>
<div>> as caps and resistors around BGA's). Replacement is
costly and requires</div>
<div>> sending the tip assembly to ERSA for replacement. When we
evaluated the</div>
<div>> ERSA Scope a year ago, the repair process was to provide ERSA
with a p.o.</div>
<div>> (several hundred $'s), they would send out a loaner tip, you
would send</div>
<div>> your tip to ERSA where it would be repaired in Germany, weeks
later you</div>
<div>> would receive your tip back and either be partially credited
or</div>
<div>> additionally billed depending on the extent of the damage and
difficulty</div>
<div>> of the repair, and then you would send the loaner back to
ERSA. This</div>
<div>> cumbersome and costly process may have since changed but you
would want to</div>
<div>> check into this.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> There is another scope, the Cal-Tech "Hi-Roc" scope
that is very similar</div>
<div>> in cost and performance but utilizes easily replaceable (takes
minutes</div>
<div>> with your own people) plastic prisms. We did a
side-to-side comparison</div>
<div>> and this is what we ultimately bought. We could not
discern any</div>
<div>> appreciable difference in optical quality between the two
although the</div>
<div>> Hi-Roc uses a plastic prism and the ERSA uses a glass
one. Because we</div>
<div>> were using the scope in a volume production inspection process
we couldn't</div>
<div>> live with the replacement costs associated with the ERSA.
Within the</div>
<div>> first couple of months we replaced at least four prisms until
the</div>
<div>> production shifts got comfortable with the level of delicacy
associated</div>
<div>> with this type of equipment.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> If you will be using your scope in more of a lab inspection
environment</div>
<div>> with control over who is using the scope and the training they
have</div>
<div>> received, this level of prism damage likely won't occur, but in
my humble</div>
<div>> opinion it is still a matter of "when" the prism gets
damaged, not "if".</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> ERSA has a very nice software package available with their
machine that</div>
<div>> includes prepopulated component images that display acceptable
and</div>
<div>> rejectable conditions along with the live image of the part
under</div>
<div>> inspection, including potential root cause comments. You
can add to and</div>
<div>> customize this image/comment library for your own criteria and
conditions.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Good Luck,</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Glenn
Woodhouse</div>
<div>>
MCMS</div>
<div>> Advanced Technology Development</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> ----- Original Message -----</div>
<div>> From: "Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)"
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>> To: <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:43 AM</div>
<div>> Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection</div>
<div>></div>
<div>></div>
<div>> > > TechNet Friends,</div>
<div>> > > We are looking
into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our</div>
<div>> > > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with
the ERSASCOPE. It</div>
<div>> appears</div>
<div>> > > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system,
with all the options</div>
<div>> to</div>
<div>> > > make life easy. It appears that their
supplemental tools in fact, do</div>
<div>> add</div>
<div>> > > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course,
comes at a price.</div>
<div>> > > I'm hoping to
hear from people who have personally evaluated</div>
<div>> such</div>
<div>> > > tools.</div>
<div>> > > Are all the
features of the ERSA truly benefits?</div>
<div>> > > Are there other
systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are</div>
<div>> they</div>
<div>> > > as fully developed as the ERSA?</div>
<div>> > ></div>
<div>> > > Thanks for your help with this one,</div>
<div>> > ></div>
<div>> > ></div>
<div>> > > Greg Anderson</div>
<div>> > > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer</div>
<div>> > > GE Fanuc Automation</div>
<div>> > > Charlottesville, VA 22911</div>
<div>> > > Phone: 434-978-5181</div>
<div>> > > FAX: 434-978-5898</div>
<div>> > > e-mail: [log in to unmask]</div>
<br>
<div>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>-----</div>
<div>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d</div>
<div>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in</div>
<div>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet</div>
<div>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:
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<div>Technet NOMAIL</div>
<div>Search previous postings at:
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<div>E-mail Archives</div>
<div>Please visit IPC web site
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for additional</div>
<div>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700</div>
<div>ext.5315</div>
<div>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>-----</div>
<div>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 14:58:38 -0800</div>
<div>From: Paul Gill <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction (OOOPs)</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<div>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit</div>
<br>
<div>My last post was intended only for Glenn.</div>
<br>
<div>Some times the fingers are faster than the mind.</div>
<br>
<div>Paul Gill</div>
<div>Sr. Process Development Engineer</div>
<div>Finisar Corporation</div>
<div>1 408 541 5626</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: Paul Gill
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]</div>
<div>Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 2:51 PM</div>
<div>To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.</div>
<div>Subject: RE: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Glenn Woodhouse,</div>
<br>
<div>How are thing in Nampa?</div>
<br>
<div>It's been a while.</div>
<br>
<div>I was searching through the Technet (I have about 2700 unread in a
folder)</div>
<div>and I came across your name. This was from a post back in
August.</div>
<br>
<div>A couple mouse clicks later and I notice that you posted today
from</div>
<div>MCMS. Glad to hear that your still there.</div>
<br>
<div>Are things going well? Comparatively?</div>
<br>
<div>BTW the e-mail back in august had some great information about
AOI.</div>
<div>Did MCMS purchase an AOI? Can you tell me which one? Are
you happy with</div>
<div>the choice?</div>
<br>
<div>Thanks</div>
<br>
<div>Paul Gill</div>
<div>Sr. Process Development Engineer</div>
<div>Finisar Corporation</div>
<div>1 408 541 5626</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: TechNet
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]]On</a>
Behalf Of Glenn Woodhouse</div>
<div>Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 9:06 AM</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection - Name Correction</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Whoops. For anyone trying to search for the BGA inspection
scope I posted</div>
<div>on, I completely botched the spelling of the company and
product. The</div>
<div>company is "Caltex", and the scope is the
"Hirox" at
<a href="http://www.bgascope.com/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>www.bgascope.com</a>.
You</div>
<div>can find the ERSA Scope at
<a href="http://www.ersa.de/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>www.ersa.de</a>.</div>
<br>
<div>Sorry for any inconvenience,</div>
<br>
<div> Glenn
Woodhouse</div>
<div>
MCMS</div>
<div>Advanced Technology Development</div>
<br>
<div>> -----Original Message-----</div>
<div>> From: Glenn Woodhouse</div>
<div>> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:35 AM</div>
<div>> To: 'TechNet'</div>
<div>> Subject: RE: BGA Visual
Inspection</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Greg,</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> The ERSA is a fine piece of equipment. When considering
it you must take</div>
<div>> into account the production environment it must survive.
The prism used</div>
<div>> in the tip is vulnerable to damage (i.e., collisions with
components such</div>
<div>> as caps and resistors around BGA's). Replacement is
costly and requires</div>
<div>> sending the tip assembly to ERSA for replacement. When we
evaluated the</div>
<div>> ERSA Scope a year ago, the repair process was to provide ERSA
with a p.o.</div>
<div>> (several hundred $'s), they would send out a loaner tip, you
would send</div>
<div>> your tip to ERSA where it would be repaired in Germany, weeks
later you</div>
<div>> would receive your tip back and either be partially credited
or</div>
<div>> additionally billed depending on the extent of the damage and
difficulty</div>
<div>> of the repair, and then you would send the loaner back to
ERSA. This</div>
<div>> cumbersome and costly process may have since changed but you
would want to</div>
<div>> check into this.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> There is another scope, the Cal-Tech "Hi-Roc" scope
that is very similar</div>
<div>> in cost and performance but utilizes easily replaceable (takes
minutes</div>
<div>> with your own people) plastic prisms. We did a
side-to-side comparison</div>
<div>> and this is what we ultimately bought. We could not
discern any</div>
<div>> appreciable difference in optical quality between the two
although the</div>
<div>> Hi-Roc uses a plastic prism and the ERSA uses a glass
one. Because we</div>
<div>> were using the scope in a volume production inspection process
we couldn't</div>
<div>> live with the replacement costs associated with the ERSA.
Within the</div>
<div>> first couple of months we replaced at least four prisms until
the</div>
<div>> production shifts got comfortable with the level of delicacy
associated</div>
<div>> with this type of equipment.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> If you will be using your scope in more of a lab inspection
environment</div>
<div>> with control over who is using the scope and the training they
have</div>
<div>> received, this level of prism damage likely won't occur, but in
my humble</div>
<div>> opinion it is still a matter of "when" the prism gets
damaged, not "if".</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> ERSA has a very nice software package available with their
machine that</div>
<div>> includes prepopulated component images that display acceptable
and</div>
<div>> rejectable conditions along with the live image of the part
under</div>
<div>> inspection, including potential root cause comments. You
can add to and</div>
<div>> customize this image/comment library for your own criteria and
conditions.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Good Luck,</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Glenn
Woodhouse</div>
<div>>
MCMS</div>
<div>> Advanced Technology Development</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> ----- Original Message -----</div>
<div>> From: "Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)"
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>> To: <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:43 AM</div>
<div>> Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection</div>
<div>></div>
<div>></div>
<div>> > > TechNet Friends,</div>
<div>> > > We are looking
into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our</div>
<div>> > > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with
the ERSASCOPE. It</div>
<div>> appears</div>
<div>> > > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system,
with all the options</div>
<div>> to</div>
<div>> > > make life easy. It appears that their
supplemental tools in fact, do</div>
<div>> add</div>
<div>> > > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course,
comes at a price.</div>
<div>> > > I'm hoping to
hear from people who have personally evaluated</div>
<div>> such</div>
<div>> > > tools.</div>
<div>> > > Are all the
features of the ERSA truly benefits?</div>
<div>> > > Are there other
systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are</div>
<div>> they</div>
<div>> > > as fully developed as the ERSA?</div>
<div>> > ></div>
<div>> > > Thanks for your help with this one,</div>
<div>> > ></div>
<div>> > ></div>
<div>> > > Greg Anderson</div>
<div>> > > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer</div>
<div>> > > GE Fanuc Automation</div>
<div>> > > Charlottesville, VA 22911</div>
<div>> > > Phone: 434-978-5181</div>
<div>> > > FAX: 434-978-5898</div>
<div>> > > e-mail: [log in to unmask]</div>
<br>
<div>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>-----</div>
<div>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d</div>
<div>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in</div>
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<div>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:
SET</div>
<div>Technet NOMAIL</div>
<div>Search previous postings at:
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<div>E-mail Archives</div>
<div>Please visit IPC web site
(<a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>)
for additional</div>
<div>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700</div>
<div>ext.5315</div>
<div>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>-----</div>
<div>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:17:54 -0000</div>
<div>From: Graham Naisbitt
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: Conformal Coating Process</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<div>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit</div>
<br>
<div>Doug and Jim</div>
<br>
<div>In respect to the suggestions Doug makes, could you just be sure
that you</div>
<div>are manufacturing assemblies that are broadly in-line with the
"coupon</div>
<div>design" outlined in J-Std001/004/TM650 etc..</div>
<br>
<div>Latest research suggests that "older" designs might yield
grossly misleading</div>
<div>reliability data (SIR results) - you really must test to conditions
to which</div>
<div>your finished assembly shall be subjected.</div>
<br>
<div>"Cleaning" to a value of less than 2 megohm/cm also means
that it is</div>
<div>acceptable to leave up to that amount of "salt" on every
square cm of the</div>
<div>assembly, but fine-line; fine-pitch; COB, BGA etc., might well
demand a far</div>
<div>lower value. I know of many that work to less than 0.2 megohm/cm for
this</div>
<div>very reason.</div>
<br>
<div>Regards, Graham Naisbitt</div>
<br>
<div>[log in to unmask]</div>
<div><a href="http://www.concoat.co.uk/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>www.concoat.co.uk</a>
<<a href="http://www.concoat.co.uk/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.concoat.co.uk</a>></div>
<br>
<div>For instant access to Product Data Sheets register on the Tech-Shot area of</div>
<div><a href="http:///" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://</a> <a href="http://www.concoat.co.uk/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>www.concoat.co.uk</a> <<a href="http://www.concoat.co.uk/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.concoat.co.uk</a>></div>
<br>
<div>Concoat Limited</div>
<div>Alasan House, Albany Park</div>
<div>CAMBERLEY GU16 7PH UK</div>
<div>Phone: +44 (0)1276 691100</div>
<div>Fax: +44 (0)1276 691227</div>
<div>Mobile: +44 (0)79 6858 2121</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: TechNet [<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]]On</a> Behalf Of</div>
<div>[log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 02:12</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [TN] Conformal Coating Process</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>I'm trying to qualify a new cleaning process for electrical assemblies</div>
<div>prior</div>
<div>to conformal coating (Military boards). The old MIL Specs had as</div>
<div>cleanliness requirement of 2 meg-ohms minimum, is this all I need to do,</div>
<div>verify cleanliness to 2 meg-ohms? What about subjecting the assemblies to</div>
<div>10-day elevated temp/humidity (steady state)? Any recommendations?</div>
<br>
<div>*Jim, to your first question, Yes. When changing a cleaning operation, and</div>
<div>not changing fluxes, MIL-STD-2000A only required Appendix C testing, which</div>
<div>was the standard ROSE test. The 2 megohm-cm requirement translates to the</div>
<div>more familiar 10.06 micrograms sodium chloride equivalence per square inch,</div>
<div>whatever that becomes translated to the specific ionic cleanliness tester.</div>
<div>We all know what a crock that test is, but it still exists, especially in</div>
<div>military contracts.</div>
<br>
<div>Two questions you should be asking: What data does my customer need to</div>
<div>see? and I just trying to meet contractual requirements or REALLY show that</div>
<div>the change is not detrimental?</div>
<br>
<div>If the customer leaves it totally to you, then I suggest that you do both.</div>
<div>The ROSE test, bogus as it may be, is very easy to do and satisfies the</div>
<div>contractually focussed types. As to a longer temperature-humidity</div>
<div>exposure, that is a fairly good idea. What tests to you perform now to</div>
<div>tell you if product is good or bad? Do that same test but extend the test</div>
<div>time about 50% and run on hardware cleaned with the new method. At</div>
<div>Collins, our products go through -55 to 125C cycling to catch infant</div>
<div>mortality types of failures, er...ahhh... not that we EVER see such</div>
<div>failures, mind you....., and when we have a process change, we use the same</div>
<div>environmental screen.</div>
<br>
<div>Doug Pauls</div>
<div>Rockwell Collins</div>
<br>
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<div>ext.5315</div>
<div>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>-----</div>
<div>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:49:12 -0800</div>
<div>From: Debbie Kenney <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: Looking for flex design and build shop</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain</div>
<br>
<div>Hi Terri,</div>
<br>
<div>We have a lot of experience with this type of flex. Please check out our</div>
<div>website at <a href="http://www.mflex.com/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>www.mflex.com</a>.</div>
<br>
<div>Debbie Kenney</div>
<div>Engineer</div>
<div>M-Flex / AMT</div>
<div>Direct (714) 688-5242</div>
<div>Fax (714) 996-3834</div>
<div>[log in to unmask]</div>
<br>
<div>> -----Original Message-----</div>
<div>> From: Houston, Terri [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]</div>
<div>> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 5:20 AM</div>
<div>> To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>> Subject: [TN] Looking for flex design and build shop</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Hi All,</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> I'm looking for a shop to design and build an oddly twisted, Y-shaped flex</div>
<div>> circuit with connectors at the 3 ends. It must be shielded (3 layer) and</div>
<div>> must withstand temperatures from -40 to 100C. Volumes are relatively low</div>
<div>> (a</div>
<div>> few thousand/year).</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> If any of you have good experience with such a shop that does this for a</div>
<div>> living, please send me contact information off TechNet.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Thanks in advance,</div>
<div>> Terri</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
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<div>> additional</div>
<div>> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700</div>
<div>> ext.5315</div>
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> -------
</blockquote></x-html>
<html><div>Hi,</div>
<br>
<div>I will be back on 12/17/01.</div>
<br>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Jong</div>
</html>
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:57:26 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: jong s kadesch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 11 Dec 2001
(#2001-772))
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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At 12:00 AM 12/12/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:00:05 -0600
>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: TechNet Digest - 11 Dec 2001 (#2001-772)
>To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There are 17 messages totalling 808 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA (2)
> 2. Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations? (2)
> 3. GEE Laminate Material?
> 4. Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit (3)
> 5. unsubscribe TechNet Jeff Slipp
> 6. Sodium Silicate Contamination
> 7. Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
> 8. RF shielding
> 9. Where did 30m" for Tab plating co
> 10. Interesting trend lately... (4)
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
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>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:43:03 -0800
>From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Hello all,
>
>Problem description:
>
>Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.
>Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball
>height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)
>5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure
>modules came from opening soder join or no solder join
>at all. As we inspect the screen printing process (we
>use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning
>rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we
>found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has very
>little solder or no solder at all.
>
>Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape aperture,
>13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.
>
>We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then
>we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce the
>stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or
>resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or
>many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,
>short-life, etc)
>
>What would be your solution?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Stacy
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
>your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
>or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:46:05 -0800
>From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>Rick,
>
>Please specify your application. The pro/con of those
>machine depend on your application, expectation
>(volume, quantily, maintenance, service, ...).
>
>Clarify your need, then we will be able to share
>ideas.
>
>Stacy
>
>--- Rick Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
>wrote:
> > We're looking at possibly installing a new line and
> > I'm hoping some of
> > you might care to share your opinions,
> > recommendations, pro or con on
> > Panasonic, Siemens, Fuji from current users. If you
> > have any insight
> > you wouldn't mind sharing, please contact me
> > offline.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
> > Rick Thompson
> > Ventura Electronics Assembly
> > 2655 Park Center Dr.
> > Simi Valley, CA 93065
> >
> > +1 (805) 584-9858 x-304 voice
> > +1 (805) 584-1529 fax
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC
> > using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask]
> > with following text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the
> > following message: SET Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line
> > Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site
> > (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at
> > [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> >
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
>your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
>or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:04:31 -0600
>From: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>we have a .75 mm pitch device with same issue, try pad size at .014" and
>square
>appature .014" . also experiment with differant paste types 3 or 4
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:18:48 -0500
>From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: GEE Laminate Material?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Opps,
>
>I tried looking up Bernard's 18911 spec but no go.
>Turns out Keith's' had the right spec and I'm all set.
>
>
>Hans
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Keith Calhoun [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:33 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] GEE Laminate Material?
>
>
>Hans,
>Try MIL-I-24768/2. We use this for insulating spacers, etc.
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:21:24 -0800
>From: Yu-Hung Shiau <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>boundary="=====================_942141297==_.ALT"
>
>Morning guys,
>Customer bought our product for testing propose and would like to get a
>number about the normal allowed insertion times on the gold plating edge
>connectors. Is there anybody can give me an idea about how many insertion
>times for a hard-gold-plated edge connector could take before it
>malfunctions? We have 30 micron" gold through electroplating process over
>100 micron" Nickle on all edge connectors in our products.
>
>If possible, could somebody direct me to someplace where I could find
>relevant articles for my own study purpose. Many many thanks!!
>YH Shiau
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:30:12 -0400
>From: Jeff Slipp <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: unsubscribe TechNet Jeff Slipp
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:48:17 -0600
>From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1827C.C730BC20"
>I got the following info from the SMTNet site a few months ago. Thanks to
>Dave F, who also posts to Technet. I believe in your dimensions you mean
>micro-inches, not microns. So, according to Norm's experiment, looks like
>you could have 50-75 insertions. "...an experiment done by Norm Einarson.
>[Mr. Einarson is a very famous board design guru. His book "Bare Board PBW
>Design Manual" published by Printed Circuit Technology ph.617-272-0938 is
>a very good approach to board design for manufacture. You may be able to
>buy it from SMTA <http://www.smta.org> also.]
>
>The experiment was to determine insertions from a gold plated board into a
>connector. Same thickness boards (0.062"), with 100 m base nickel. " 100m
>gold => 500 insertions " 50 m gold => 300 insertions " 30 m gold => 50 to
>75 insertions " 20 m gold => 10 insertions. "
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Yu-Hung Shiau [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: December 11, 2001 1:21 PM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: [TN] Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
>>
>>Morning guys,
>>Customer bought our product for testing propose and would like to get a
>>number about the normal allowed insertion times on the gold plating edge
>>connectors. Is there anybody can give me an idea about how many insertion
>>times for a hard-gold-plated edge connector could take before it
>>malfunctions? We have 30 micron" gold through electroplating process over
>>100 micron" Nickle on all edge connectors in our products.
>>
>>If possible, could somebody direct me to someplace where I could find
>>relevant articles for my own study purpose. Many many thanks!!
>>YH Shiau
>>
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:20:33 EST
>>From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>Jennifer:
>>
>>You probably did not discover Sodium Silcate...which, in small particles and
>>quantities is rapidly neutralized by the Carbon Dioxide in air to a form of
>>Hydrated Silicon Dioxide.....which is actually known as "Silicic Acid", but
>>is about as acidic as Carbon Dioxide in air..
>>
>>The truth is that the stuff in small quantities is essentially harmless to
>>human beings. I would ignore it.
>>
>>If you want to clean it up, probably the only reasonable way is to use a
>>simple mild detergent solution. If you want to remove every last atom of
>>Silicon Dioxide you would have to use some VERY hazardous chemicals.
>>
>>My advice: Have a nice holiday...if people want to feel like they have "done
>>something to cure the problem"...wash the floor.
>>
>>Rudy Sedlak
>>RD Chemical Company
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:53:28 -0800
>>From: Alan de Schweinitz <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011C_01C18242.D4524B60"
>>
>>Hello Yu-Hung,
>>
>>AMP Inc. has published many excellent reference papers regarding the use
>>of gold on connectors. technicalpapers.e-insite.net has published many
>>of these papers.
>>
>>See the link:
>>
>><http://technicalpapers.e-insite.net/data/rlist?iStart=1&sort_by=org_name&
>>t=pd_10_40_40_6&orgtypegrp=ALL>http://technicalpapers.e-insite.net/data/rl
>>ist?iStart=1&sort_by=org_name&t=pd_10_40_40_6&orgtypegrp=ALL and select
>>an AMP Inc.
>>paper
>><http://technicalpapers.e-insite.net/data/detail?id=951410475_424&type=RES
>>&x=1235484440>http://technicalpapers.e-insite.net/data/detail?id=951410475
>>_424&type=RES&x=1235484440 for specific information about the use of
>>gold on connector contacts.
>>
>>Another excellent reference is:
>>
>>Morton Antler, Contact Consultants, Inc., Columbus, Ohio provides the
>>following information in, Tribology of Electronic Connectors: Contact
>>Sliding Wear, Fretting, and Lubrication, Chapter 6 in the volume,
>>Electrical Contacts, Principle and Applications, Paul G. Slade, editor,
>>Marcel Dekker, Inc, 1999.
>>
>>Also, I believe that the thicknesses that you are referencing should be
>>30 microinches (not microns) of hard gold over 100 microinches of nickel.
>>
>>You will find that this subject of gold on gold contacts is very
>>interesting and many different factors enter into being able to predict
>>the life of the connector including the details of the plating process
>>for both the nickel and gold; and the specific design of the mating connector.
>>
>>Best regards and good luck,
>>
>>Alan
>>
>>Alan deSchweinitz
>>Director Communication Products
>>Digitan Systems Inc
>>3445 Kifer Road
>>Santa Clara, CA 95051
>>(408) 992-0280 x224
>>(408) 992-0284 fax
>>email: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>Yu-Hung Shiau
>>To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]
>>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:21 AM
>>Subject: [TN] Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit
>>
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:08:12 -0600
>>From: David Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>Hi Peter! Steve Sauer did a great job of covering the most important basics
>>so I'll just add few other details. Based on many of the discussions which
>>occur within the JSTD-002A committee, you should expect that your component
>>shelf life should be a minimum of 6 months and very typically 12 months
>>from date of fabrication. You can expect that components with
>>Sn63/Sn62/Sn60 finishes retain their solderability better than Sn85 or
>>Sn100 finish. There is also one general rule - the thicker a finish the
>>better it retains its solderability. A 20 microinch thick Sn63 finish on a
>>DIP component is going to "age" less gracefully than a 60 microinch thick
>>Sn63 finish on the same component. Humidity has the greatest impact on the
>>loss of solderability so if you can control the humidity in your component
>>storage area then you will be better off (most people have typical controls
>>of 30%-60% RH). Lastly, always relate your solderability expectations with
>>the type of flux chemistry you are using in assembly. Typically, the
>>JSTD-004 type M or H fluxes are more robust to solderability variations
>>than the type L fluxes. The JSTD-002A specification, in conjunction with a
>>good logistics plan (as Steve recommended), can serve as a good tool for
>>solderability management. Good Luck.
>>
>>Dave Hillman
>>Rockwell Collins
>>[log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/11/2001 02:12:15 AM
>>
>>Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>cc:
>>
>>Subject: [TN] Shelve life for SMT/PTH components
>>
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>In general, what is the standard shelf life for the normal PTH and SMD
>>components like DIP IC's, SOIC's, PLCC's?
>>
>>Assuming that they are non-MSD critical, what would be the proper
>>storage method to ensure good solderability is being preserved (such as
>>nitrogen storage chamber)?
>>
>>How significant is the impact of storage conditions (e.g. humidity,
>>expose to ambient) and shelf life have on the solderability of component
>>leads?
>>
>>
>>Rgds,
>>Peter
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:25:02 -0800
>>From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: RF shielding
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>Try here:
>>http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=SCRM
>>1
>>
>>Dave Fish
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Genny Gibbard" <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 12:11 PM
>>Subject: [TN] RF shielding
>>
>>
>> > Looking for ideas - preferably more along the lines of homemade basket
>>idea
>> > (ie. go to Home Depot for the supplies and build ourselves) than booking
>>in
>> > some special consultant to solve our needs.
>> > We have test benches backing onto each other in several places on our
>> > production floor. Several of our products are based on similar frequency
>> > plans (mostly <2GHz) so sometimes tests being run on one bench will
>> > interfere with tests being run on the bench backing onto it and will cause
>> > false test failures.
>> > I am looking for some sort of RF screen or something that we can mount and
>> > ground between the benches to reduce what we call 'crosstalk'.
>> > Thoughts?
>> >
>> > Genny Gibbard (mailto:[log in to unmask])
>> >
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-------
>> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>>Technet NOMAIL
>> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>>E-mail Archives
>> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>>additional
>> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>>ext.5315
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-------
>> >
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:03:34 -0600
>>From: Yu-Hung Shiau <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Where did 30m" for Tab plating co
>>
>>Dear Norm,
>>I saw the article you posted on the IPC TechNet forum and I'm very
>>interested with it. Is that possible you could share more details of your
>>experiment with me? I have a customer who asked me to give them a number of
>>how many times of insertion the 30 micro inch electroplated edge connector
>>could take before any problem being raised?
>>
>>When you say 50~75 insertions, what exactly does that mean? Does it mean
>>the gold plating will be gone and Nickle be exposed? Or it would
>>malfunction? Or it's for high reliability maintained?!!
>>
>>Your opinion and information is highly appreciated. Many thanks!!
>>YH Shiau
>>
>>ps: Do you know similar experiments being performed by others??
>>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:41:16 +0530
>>From: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>Hi Rick,
>>
>>THe selection of SMT machines is totally application dependent! Hence I
>>would suggest you specify that first. Like whether you'll be into low
>>volume-high mix assembly, or high volume-low mix, or low volume low mix,
>>....... and what components you need to be placed (0201 required?, BGAs,
>>micro BGAs, CSPs......) minimum pitch, odd shaped, etc..., your estimate of
>>the line speed in cph.
>>
>>I think once you have this data, many technetters will be able to give you
>>some idea!
>>
>>Good luck
>>
>>Vinit
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Rick Thompson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:37 PM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: [TN] Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?
>>
>>
>>We're looking at possibly installing a new line and I'm hoping some of
>>you might care to share your opinions, recommendations, pro or con on
>>Panasonic, Siemens, Fuji from current users. If you have any insight
>>you wouldn't mind sharing, please contact me offline.
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>Rick Thompson
>>Ventura Electronics Assembly
>>2655 Park Center Dr.
>>Simi Valley, CA 93065
>>
>>+1 (805) 584-9858 x-304 voice
>>+1 (805) 584-1529 fax
>>[log in to unmask]
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>>Technet NOMAIL
>>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>>E-mail Archives
>>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>>ext.5315
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:16:07 EST
>>From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Interesting trend lately...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>Just thought I'd pass on something that I've just learned about. We've been
>>looking at purchasing some used, or more politically correct I suppose,
>>"pre-owned" pick and place equipment.
>>
>>Have found out that there are OEM's of these machines out there, that are
>>buying as many of the used machines that are out in the open market as they
>>can, to prevent them from being sold to the general market (like us guys)
>>that want to buy them...just found that rather interesting...
>>
>>They don't want their used machines being sold and traded, and are trying to
>>make sure that anybody that wants their equipment has to buy "New" from them
>>by taking as many of the used machines off the market as they can...I guess
>>that is one marketing strategy...don't really understand it, but I guess
>>that's why I'm not a sales guy...
>>
>>Have any of you heard about this?
>>
>>-Steve Gregory-
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:32:20 -0500
>>From: Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>Stephen:
>>
>>This is a strategy that implies that the machines are breaking down more
>>frequently and that not enough spare parts are available.
>>Therefore, maintain an inventory of used parts and sell them at a
>>premium during this down-turn.
>>Similar to a car, the replacement cost of a single part is worth much
>>more than selling the total car itself.
>>
>>In addition, these machines are not sold from inventory so the next best
>>thing is the repair market.
>>
>>Just an opinion.
>>
>>Charlie McMahon
>>
>>
>>
>>Stephen R. Gregory wrote:
>>
>>>Just thought I'd pass on something that I've just learned about. We've been
>>>looking at purchasing some used, or more politically correct I suppose,
>>>"pre-owned" pick and place equipment.
>>>
>>>Have found out that there are OEM's of these machines out there, that are
>>>buying as many of the used machines that are out in the open market as they
>>>can, to prevent them from being sold to the general market (like us guys)
>>>that want to buy them...just found that rather interesting...
>>>
>>>They don't want their used machines being sold and traded, and are trying to
>>>make sure that anybody that wants their equipment has to buy "New" from them
>>>by taking as many of the used machines off the market as they can...I guess
>>>that is one marketing strategy...don't really understand it, but I guess
>>>that's why I'm not a sales guy...
>>>
>>>Have any of you heard about this?
>>>
>>>-Steve Gregory-
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>--------
>>>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>>>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>>>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>>>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>>>Technet NOMAIL
>>>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources &
>>>Databases > E-mail Archives
>>>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>>>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>>>ext.5315
>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>--------
>>>
>>
>>
>>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:59:41 +1300
>>From: Chris Murphy <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
>>
>>Hi Steve,
>>
>>dont forget that for some of these suppliers part of their business is
>>to refurbish used machines and then offer them as a cheaper alternative
>>for companies that cant afford to buy new.
>>
>>If suppliers are buying all of the old machines to force people to buy
>>new, then they would have to make enough profit on the new machine to
>>offset the costs of buying the old ones, which might be pretty difficult
>>to do in today's competitive environment. Mind you, if they got the old
>>equipment cheaply enough, then maybe it's worth it.
>>
>>Two other theories are 1) More people want to buy second hand due to
>>cash constraints so the OEMs want to get more into this market, or 2)
>>The OEMs are trying to temporarily take these machines off the market so
>>that they get some work for their factories and dont have to shut them
>>down. If they believe the financial anaylsts then the US economy will
>>bounce back next year, and they can release the old equipment then.
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Chris Murphy
>>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:11:48 -0800
>>From: Richard Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>>
>>Chris,
>>
>>Or, Theory 1 + Theory 2! That has my vote.
>>
>>Richard
>>
>>At 04:59 PM 12/12/01 +1300, you wrote:
>>>Hi Steve,
>>>
>>>dont forget that for some of these suppliers part of their business is
>>>to refurbish used machines and then offer them as a cheaper alternative
>>>for companies that cant afford to buy new.
>>>
>>>If suppliers are buying all of the old machines to force people to buy
>>>new, then they would have to make enough profit on the new machine to
>>>offset the costs of buying the old ones, which might be pretty difficult
>>>to do in today's competitive environment. Mind you, if they got the old
>>>equipment cheaply enough, then maybe it's worth it.
>>>
>>>Two other theories are 1) More people want to buy second hand due to
>>>cash constraints so the OEMs want to get more into this market, or 2)
>>>The OEMs are trying to temporarily take these machines off the market so
>>>that they get some work for their factories and dont have to shut them
>>>down. If they believe the financial anaylsts then the US economy will
>>>bounce back next year, and they can release the old equipment then.
>>>
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>Chris Murphy
>Hi,
>
>I will be back on 12/17/01.
>
>Regards,
>Jong
--=====================_1328720==_.ALT
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At 12:00 AM 12/12/01 -0600, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001
00:00:05 -0600<br>
Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
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Subject: TechNet Digest - 11 Dec 2001 (#2001-772)<br>
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<br>
There are 17 messages totalling 808 lines in this issue.<br>
<br>
Topics of the day:<br>
<br>
1. Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA (2)<br>
2. Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations? (2)<br>
3. GEE Laminate Material?<br>
4. Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit (3)<br>
5. unsubscribe TechNet Jeff Slipp<br>
6. Sodium Silicate Contamination<br>
7. Shelve life for SMT/PTH components<br>
8. RF shielding<br>
9. Where did 30m" for Tab plating co<br>
10. Interesting trend lately... (4)<br>
<br>
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:43:03 -0800<br>
From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
Hello all,<br>
<br>
Problem description:<br>
<br>
Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.<br>
Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball<br>
height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)<br>
5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure<br>
modules came from opening soder join or no solder join<br>
at all. As we inspect the screen printing process (we<br>
use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning<br>
rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we<br>
found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has very<br>
little solder or no solder at all.<br>
<br>
Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape aperture,<br>
13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.<br>
<br>
We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then<br>
we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce the<br>
stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or<br>
resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or<br>
many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,<br>
short-life, etc)<br>
<br>
What would be your solution?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Stacy<br>
<br>
__________________________________________________<br>
Do You Yahoo!?<br>
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of<br>
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:46:05 -0800<br>
From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
Rick,<br>
<br>
Please specify your application. The pro/con of those<br>
machine depend on your application, expectation<br>
(volume, quantily, maintenance, service, ...).<br>
<br>
Clarify your need, then we will be able to share<br>
ideas.<br>
<br>
Stacy<br>
<br>
--- Rick Thompson <[log in to unmask]><br>
wrote:<br>
> We're looking at possibly installing a new line and<br>
> I'm hoping some of<br>
> you might care to share your opinions,<br>
> recommendations, pro or con on<br>
> Panasonic, Siemens, Fuji from current users. If you<br>
> have any insight<br>
> you wouldn't mind sharing, please contact me<br>
> offline.<br>
><br>
> Thanks in advance.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Rick Thompson<br>
> Ventura Electronics Assembly<br>
> 2655 Park Center Dr.<br>
> Simi Valley, CA 93065<br>
><br>
> +1 (805) 584-9858 x-304 voice<br>
> +1 (805) 584-1529 fax<br>
> [log in to unmask]<br>
><br>
><br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC<br>
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> with following text in<br>
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On-Line<br>
> Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives<br>
> Please visit IPC web site<br>
>
(<a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" eudora="autourl">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>)
for additional<br>
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at<br>
> [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315<br>
><br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
__________________________________________________<br>
Do You Yahoo!?<br>
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of<br>
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:04:31 -0600<br>
From: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
we have a .75 mm pitch device with same issue, try pad size at .014"
and square<br>
appature .014" . also experiment with differant paste types 3 or
4<br>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:18:48 -0500<br>
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: GEE Laminate Material?<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Opps,<br>
<br>
I tried looking up Bernard's 18911 spec but no go.<br>
Turns out Keith's' had the right spec and I'm all set.<br>
<br>
<br>
Hans<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Keith Calhoun
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 9:33 AM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: Re: [TN] GEE Laminate Material?<br>
<br>
<br>
Hans,<br>
Try MIL-I-24768/2. We use this for insulating spacers, etc.<br>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:21:24 -0800<br>
From: Yu-Hung Shiau <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=====================_942141297==_.ALT"<br>
<br>
Morning guys,<br>
Customer bought our product for testing propose and would like to get a
number about the <b>normal allowed insertion times</b> on the gold
plating edge connectors. Is there anybody can give me an idea about how
many insertion times for a hard-gold-plated edge connector could take
before it malfunctions? We have 30 micron" gold through
electroplating process over 100 micron" Nickle on all edge
connectors in our products.<br>
<br>
If possible, could somebody direct me to someplace where I could find
relevant articles for my own study purpose. Many many thanks!!<br>
YH Shiau<br>
<br>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:30:12 -0400<br>
From: Jeff Slipp <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: unsubscribe TechNet Jeff Slipp<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<br>
<br>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:48:17 -0600<br>
From: Genny Gibbard
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1827C.C730BC20"<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
<dir>
I got the following info from the SMTNet site a few months ago.
Thanks to Dave F, who also posts to Technet. </font>
I believe in your dimensions you mean micro-inches, not microns.
So, according to Norm's experiment, looks like you could have 50-75
insertions.
"...an experiment done by Norm Einarson. [Mr. Einarson is a very
famous board design guru. His book "Bare Board PBW Design
Manual" published by Printed Circuit Technology ph.617-272-0938 is a
very good approach to board design for manufacture. You may be able to
buy it from SMTA
<font color="#0000FF"><u><<a href="http://www.smta.org/" eudora="autourl">http://www.smta.org</a>></font></u>
also.] <br>
<br>
The experiment was to determine insertions from a gold plated board into a connector. Same thickness boards (0.062"), with 100 m base nickel. " 100m gold => 500 insertions " 50 m gold => 300 insertions " 30 m gold => 50 to 75 insertions " 20 m gold => 10 insertions. "
</dir><blockquote><font face="tahoma" size=2>
<dl>
<dd>-----Original Message-----
<dd>From:</b> Yu-Hung Shiau [<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]
<dd>Sent:</b> December 11, 2001 1:21 PM
<dd>To:</b> [log in to unmask]
<dd>Subject:</b> [TN] Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit<br>
<br>
</font>
<dd>Morning guys,
<dd>Customer bought our product for testing propose and would like to get a number about the normal allowed insertion times</b> on the gold plating edge connectors. Is there anybody can give me an idea about how many insertion times for a hard-gold-plated edge connector could take before it malfunctions? We have 30 micron" gold through electroplating process over 100 micron" Nickle on all edge connectors in our products.<br>
<br>
<dd>If possible, could somebody direct me to someplace where I could find relevant articles for my own study purpose. Many many thanks!!
<dd>YH Shiau<br>
<br>
</dl>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:20:33 EST<br>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"<br>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<br>
<br>
Jennifer:<br>
<br>
You probably did not discover Sodium Silcate...which, in small particles and<br>
quantities is rapidly neutralized by the Carbon Dioxide in air to a form of<br>
Hydrated Silicon Dioxide.....which is actually known as "Silicic Acid", but<br>
is about as acidic as Carbon Dioxide in air..<br>
<br>
The truth is that the stuff in small quantities is essentially harmless to<br>
human beings. I would ignore it.<br>
<br>
If you want to clean it up, probably the only reasonable way is to use a<br>
simple mild detergent solution. If you want to remove every last atom of<br>
Silicon Dioxide you would have to use some VERY hazardous chemicals.<br>
<br>
My advice: Have a nice holiday...if people want to feel like they have "done<br>
something to cure the problem"...wash the floor.<br>
<br>
Rudy Sedlak<br>
RD Chemical Company<br>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:53:28 -0800<br>
From: Alan de Schweinitz <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_011C_01C18242.D4524B60"<br>
<br>
<font size=2>Hello Yu-Hung,</font><br>
<br>
<font size=2>AMP Inc. has published many excellent reference papers regarding the use of gold on connectors. technicalpapers.e-insite.net has published many of these papers.</font><br>
<br>
<font size=2>See the link:</font><br>
<br>
<font size=2><a href="http://technicalpapers.e-insite.net/data/rlist?iStart=1&sort_by=org_name&t=pd_10_40_40_6&orgtypegrp=ALL">http://technicalpapers.e-insite.net/data/rlist?iStart=1&sort_by=org_name&t=pd_10_40_40_6&orgtypegrp=ALL</a> and select an AMP Inc. paper <a href="http://technicalpapers.e-insite.net/data/detail?id=951410475_424&type=RES&x=1235484440">http://technicalpapers.e-insite.net/data/detail?id=951410475_424&type=RES&x=1235484440</a> for specific information about the use of gold on connector contacts.</font><br>
<br>
<font size=2>Another excellent reference is: <br>
<br>
Morton Antler, Contact Consultants, Inc., Columbus, Ohio provides the following information in, Tribology of Electronic Connectors: Contact Sliding Wear, Fretting, and Lubrication</u>, Chapter 6 in the volume, Electrical Contacts, Principle and Applications,</u> Paul G. Slade, editor, Marcel Dekker, Inc, 1999.<br>
<br>
Also, I believe that the thicknesses that you are referencing should be 30 microinches (not microns) of hard gold over 100 microinches of nickel.<br>
<br>
You will find that this subject of gold on gold contacts is very interesting and many different factors enter into being able to predict the life of the connector including the details of the plating process for both the nickel and gold; and the specific design of the mating connector.<br>
<br>
Best regards and good luck,<br>
<br>
Alan<br>
<br>
Alan deSchweinitz<br>
Director Communication Products<br>
Digitan Systems Inc<br>
3445 Kifer Road<br>
Santa Clara, CA 95051<br>
(408) 992-0280 x224<br>
(408) 992-0284 fax<br>
email: <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a></font>
<dl>
<dd>----- Original Message -----
<dd>From:</b> <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">Yu-Hung Shiau</a>
<dd>To:</b> <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>
<dd>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:21 AM
<dd>Subject:</b> [TN] Electroplated Edge connector insertion limit<br>
<br>
</dl>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 15:08:12 -0600<br>
From: David Hillman <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Shelve life for SMT/PTH components<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Hi Peter! Steve Sauer did a great job of covering the most important basics<br>
so I'll just add few other details. Based on many of the discussions which<br>
occur within the JSTD-002A committee, you should expect that your component<br>
shelf life should be a minimum of 6 months and very typically 12 months<br>
from date of fabrication. You can expect that components with<br>
Sn63/Sn62/Sn60 finishes retain their solderability better than Sn85 or<br>
Sn100 finish. There is also one general rule - the thicker a finish the<br>
better it retains its solderability. A 20 microinch thick Sn63 finish on a<br>
DIP component is going to "age" less gracefully than a 60 microinch thick<br>
Sn63 finish on the same component. Humidity has the greatest impact on the<br>
loss of solderability so if you can control the humidity in your component<br>
storage area then you will be better off (most people have typical controls<br>
of 30%-60% RH). Lastly, always relate your solderability expectations with<br>
the type of flux chemistry you are using in assembly. Typically, the<br>
JSTD-004 type M or H fluxes are more robust to solderability variations<br>
than the type L fluxes. The JSTD-002A specification, in conjunction with a<br>
good logistics plan (as Steve recommended), can serve as a good tool for<br>
solderability management. Good Luck.<br>
<br>
Dave Hillman<br>
Rockwell Collins<br>
[log in to unmask]<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/11/2001 02:12:15 AM<br>
<br>
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]><br>
<br>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
<br>
<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
cc:<br>
<br>
Subject: [TN] Shelve life for SMT/PTH components<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
In general, what is the standard shelf life for the normal PTH and SMD<br>
components like DIP IC's, SOIC's, PLCC's?<br>
<br>
Assuming that they are non-MSD critical, what would be the proper<br>
storage method to ensure good solderability is being preserved (such as<br>
nitrogen storage chamber)?<br>
<br>
How significant is the impact of storage conditions (e.g. humidity,<br>
expose to ambient) and shelf life have on the solderability of component<br>
leads?<br>
<br>
<br>
Rgds,<br>
Peter<br>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:25:02 -0800<br>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: RF shielding<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<br>
<br>
Try here:<br>
<a href="http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=SCRM" eudora="autourl">http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=SCRM</a><br>
1<br>
<br>
Dave Fish<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Genny Gibbard" <[log in to unmask]><br>
To: <[log in to unmask]><br>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 12:11 PM<br>
Subject: [TN] RF shielding<br>
<br>
<br>
> Looking for ideas - preferably more along the lines of homemade basket<br>
idea<br>
> (ie. go to Home Depot for the supplies and build ourselves) than booking<br>
in<br>
> some special consultant to solve our needs.<br>
> We have test benches backing onto each other in several places on our<br>
> production floor. Several of our products are based on similar frequency<br>
> plans (mostly <2GHz) so sometimes tests being run on one bench will<br>
> interfere with tests being run on the bench backing onto it and will cause<br>
> false test failures.<br>
> I am looking for some sort of RF screen or something that we can mount and<br>
> ground between the benches to reduce what we call 'crosstalk'.<br>
> Thoughts?<br>
><br>
> Genny Gibbard (<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>)<br>
><br>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
-------<br>
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<br>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in<br>
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet<br>
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET<br>
Technet NOMAIL<br>
> Search previous postings at: <a href="http://www.ipc.org/" eudora="autourl">www.ipc.org</a> > On-Line Resources & Databases ><br>
E-mail Archives<br>
> Please visit IPC web site (<a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" eudora="autourl">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>) for<br>
additional<br>
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700<br>
ext.5315<br>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
-------<br>
><br>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:03:34 -0600<br>
From: Yu-Hung Shiau <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Where did 30m" for Tab plating co<br>
<br>
Dear Norm,<br>
I saw the article you posted on the IPC TechNet forum and I'm very<br>
interested with it. Is that possible you could share more details of your<br>
experiment with me? I have a customer who asked me to give them a number of<br>
how many times of insertion the 30 micro inch electroplated edge connector<br>
could take before any problem being raised?<br>
<br>
When you say 50~75 insertions, what exactly does that mean? Does it mean<br>
the gold plating will be gone and Nickle be exposed? Or it would<br>
malfunction? Or it's for high reliability maintained?!!<br>
<br>
Your opinion and information is highly appreciated. Many thanks!!<br>
YH Shiau<br>
<br>
ps: Do you know similar experiments being performed by others??<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:41:16 +0530<br>
From: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Hi Rick,<br>
<br>
THe selection of SMT machines is totally application dependent! Hence I<br>
would suggest you specify that first. Like whether you'll be into low<br>
volume-high mix assembly, or high volume-low mix, or low volume low mix,<br>
....... and what components you need to be placed (0201 required?, BGAs,<br>
micro BGAs, CSPs......) minimum pitch, odd shaped, etc..., your estimate of<br>
the line speed in cph.<br>
<br>
I think once you have this data, many technetters will be able to give you<br>
some idea!<br>
<br>
Good luck<br>
<br>
Vinit<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Rick Thompson [<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:37 PM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: [TN] Panasonic - Siemens - Fuji Recommendations?<br>
<br>
<br>
We're looking at possibly installing a new line and I'm hoping some of<br>
you might care to share your opinions, recommendations, pro or con on<br>
Panasonic, Siemens, Fuji from current users. If you have any insight<br>
you wouldn't mind sharing, please contact me offline.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance.<br>
<br>
<br>
Rick Thompson<br>
Ventura Electronics Assembly<br>
2655 Park Center Dr.<br>
Simi Valley, CA 93065<br>
<br>
+1 (805) 584-9858 x-304 voice<br>
+1 (805) 584-1529 fax<br>
[log in to unmask]<br>
<br>
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-----<br>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:16:07 EST<br>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Interesting trend lately...<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"<br>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<br>
<br>
Just thought I'd pass on something that I've just learned about. We've been<br>
looking at purchasing some used, or more politically correct I suppose,<br>
"pre-owned" pick and place equipment.<br>
<br>
Have found out that there are OEM's of these machines out there, that are<br>
buying as many of the used machines that are out in the open market as they<br>
can, to prevent them from being sold to the general market (like us guys)<br>
that want to buy them...just found that rather interesting...<br>
<br>
They don't want their used machines being sold and traded, and are trying to<br>
make sure that anybody that wants their equipment has to buy "New" from them<br>
by taking as many of the used machines off the market as they can...I guess<br>
that is one marketing strategy...don't really understand it, but I guess<br>
that's why I'm not a sales guy...<br>
<br>
Have any of you heard about this?<br>
<br>
-Steve Gregory-<br>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 22:32:20 -0500<br>
From: Charles McMahon <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed<br>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<br>
<br>
Stephen:<br>
<br>
This is a strategy that implies that the machines are breaking down more<br>
frequently and that not enough spare parts are available.<br>
Therefore, maintain an inventory of used parts and sell them at a<br>
premium during this down-turn.<br>
Similar to a car, the replacement cost of a single part is worth much<br>
more than selling the total car itself.<br>
<br>
In addition, these machines are not sold from inventory so the next best<br>
thing is the repair market.<br>
<br>
Just an opinion.<br>
<br>
Charlie McMahon<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Stephen R. Gregory wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Just thought I'd pass on something that I've just learned about. We've been<br>
looking at purchasing some used, or more politically correct I suppose,<br>
"pre-owned" pick and place equipment.<br>
<br>
Have found out that there are OEM's of these machines out there, that are<br>
buying as many of the used machines that are out in the open market as they<br>
can, to prevent them from being sold to the general market (like us guys)<br>
that want to buy them...just found that rather interesting...<br>
<br>
They don't want their used machines being sold and traded, and are trying to<br>
make sure that anybody that wants their equipment has to buy "New" from them<br>
by taking as many of the used machines off the market as they can...I guess<br>
that is one marketing strategy...don't really understand it, but I guess<br>
that's why I'm not a sales guy...<br>
<br>
Have any of you heard about this?<br>
<br>
-Steve Gregory-<br>
<br>
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
</blockquote><br>
<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:59:41 +1300<br>
From: Chris Murphy <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT<br>
<br>
Hi Steve,<br>
<br>
dont forget that for some of these suppliers part of their business is<br>
to refurbish used machines and then offer them as a cheaper alternative<br>
for companies that cant afford to buy new.<br>
<br>
If suppliers are buying all of the old machines to force people to buy<br>
new, then they would have to make enough profit on the new machine to<br>
offset the costs of buying the old ones, which might be pretty difficult<br>
to do in today's competitive environment. Mind you, if they got the old<br>
equipment cheaply enough, then maybe it's worth it.<br>
<br>
Two other theories are 1) More people want to buy second hand due to<br>
cash constraints so the OEMs want to get more into this market, or 2)<br>
The OEMs are trying to temporarily take these machines off the market so<br>
that they get some work for their factories and dont have to shut them<br>
down. If they believe the financial anaylsts then the US economy will<br>
bounce back next year, and they can release the old equipment then.<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Chris Murphy<br>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:11:48 -0800<br>
From: Richard Hamilton <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed<br>
<br>
Chris,<br>
<br>
Or, Theory 1 + Theory 2! That has my vote.<br>
<br>
Richard<br>
<br>
At 04:59 PM 12/12/01 +1300, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Hi Steve,<br>
<br>
dont forget that for some of these suppliers part of their business is<br>
to refurbish used machines and then offer them as a cheaper alternative<br>
for companies that cant afford to buy new.<br>
<br>
If suppliers are buying all of the old machines to force people to buy<br>
new, then they would have to make enough profit on the new machine to<br>
offset the costs of buying the old ones, which might be pretty difficult<br>
to do in today's competitive environment. Mind you, if they got the old<br>
equipment cheaply enough, then maybe it's worth it.<br>
<br>
Two other theories are 1) More people want to buy second hand due to<br>
cash constraints so the OEMs want to get more into this market, or 2)<br>
The OEMs are trying to temporarily take these machines off the market so<br>
that they get some work for their factories and dont have to shut them<br>
down. If they believe the financial anaylsts then the US economy will<br>
bounce back next year, and they can release the old equipment then.<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Chris Murphy</blockquote></blockquote>Hi,<br>
<br>
I will be back on 12/17/01.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Jong<br>
</html>
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:57:38 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: jong s kadesch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 12 Dec 2001 - Special
issue (#2001-774))
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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At 09:18 PM 12/12/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:18:22 -0600
>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: TechNet Digest - 12 Dec 2001 - Special issue (#2001-774)
>To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There are 14 messages totalling 945 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics in this special issue:
>
> 1. Measure of Quality Performance
> 2. Sodium Silicate Contamination (3)
> 3. LLP (3)
> 4. Interesting trend lately...
> 5. IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines (3)
> 6. To form or not to Form (2)
> 7. Solderability of Organic Silver PCB's
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >=
=20
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700=20
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:59:00 -0600
>From: Scott Kauling <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Measure of Quality Performance
>
>Cathy,
>
>IPC 7912 is your standard, it explains how to calculate defects per million
>opportunities and how to calculate manufacturing indices for PCA's.
>
>Good Luck,
>SCOTT
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Cathy Killen [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:10 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [TN] Measure of Quality Performance
>Importance: High
>
>Hi,
>What would technetters recommend as the best measure of quality performance
>in contract assembly with a high level of small to medium batches (10-100)?
>
>
>Cathy Killen
>Training Instructor
>Smtek Europe Ltd.
>The information contained in the E-mail is confidential. It is intended
>only
>for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is
>unauthorised.
>The views expressed in this E-mail are those of the author, and do not
>represent the views of Smtek Europe, its associates or subsidiaries, unless
>otherwise expressly indicated.
>Please note: It is your responsibility to scan this E-mail for viruses.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>---------
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>---------
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:20:26 -0700
>From: "Faraci, Jennifer L" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain
>
>Do you have any idea how either of these (Sodium Silicate or Silicon
>Dioxide) will effect the electrical performance of circuit cards?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: <Rudy Sedlak> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 1:21 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] Sodium Silicate Contamination
>
>
>Jennifer:
>
>You probably did not discover Sodium Silcate...which, in small particles=
and
>quantities is rapidly neutralized by the Carbon Dioxide in air to a form of
>Hydrated Silicon Dioxide.....which is actually known as "Silicic Acid", but
>is about as acidic as Carbon Dioxide in air..
>
>The truth is that the stuff in small quantities is essentially harmless to
>human beings. I would ignore it.
>
>If you want to clean it up, probably the only reasonable way is to use a
>simple mild detergent solution. If you want to remove every last atom of
>Silicon Dioxide you would have to use some VERY hazardous chemicals.
>
>My advice: Have a nice holiday...if people want to feel like they have=
"done
>something to cure the problem"...wash the floor.
>
>Rudy Sedlak
>RD Chemical Company
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:45:13 -0500
>From: "MAZZI,DON (HP-Boise,ex1)" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"windows-1252"
>
>C:\Program File:Vi\SPIOrRam Files\Visio
>
> -----Original Message-----
>From: Faraci, Jennifer L [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:20 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] Sodium Silicate Contamination
>
>Do you have any idea how either of these (Sodium Silicate or Silicon
>Dioxide) will effect the electrical performance of circuit cards?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: <Rudy Sedlak> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 1:21 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] Sodium Silicate Contamination
>
>
>Jennifer:
>
>You probably did not discover Sodium Silcate...which, in small particles=
and
>quantities is rapidly neutralized by the Carbon Dioxide in air to a form of
>Hydrated Silicon Dioxide.....which is actually known as "Silicic Acid", but
>is about as acidic as Carbon Dioxide in air..
>
>The truth is that the stuff in small quantities is essentially harmless to
>human beings. I would ignore it.
>
>If you want to clean it up, probably the only reasonable way is to use a
>simple mild detergent solution. If you want to remove every last atom of
>Silicon Dioxide you would have to use some VERY hazardous chemicals.
>
>My advice: Have a nice holiday...if people want to feel like they have=
"done
>something to cure the problem"...wash the floor.
>
>Rudy Sedlak
>RD Chemical Company
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
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>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>-----
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:02:24 +0100
>From: "Zweigart, Siegmund" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: LLP
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>
>Hello
>
>We are trying to do a detailed Qualification of an assembly and repair-
>process for LLP (and similar)- packages.
>Has anybody infomation regarding this subjects.
>Will the amount of LLP increase in the future?
>How can I get information about this topic?
>
>Best regards
>
>Siegmund Zweigart
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>--------------------
>Kind regards / Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen
>
>Dr. Siegmund Zweigart
>New Technology Manager
>
>Solectron GmbH
>Solectronstrasse 2 Fon. ++49 7032 998 194
>D - 71083 Herrenberg Fax ++49 7032 998 49 222
>
>e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>internet: www.solectron.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>--------------------
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:54:59 EST
>From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: LLP
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;=20
>boundary=3D"part1_d7.10976ab6.29490203_boundary"
>
>Hi Siegmund!
>
>Go to: http://www.national.com/packaging/llp/
>
>and you'll find Application Notes AN-1187 which is all about LLP's.=20
>Designing them in assemblies, reflow profiles, and rework procedures.=20
>There's even a RealMedia video there that is showing the steps to use when=
=20
>reworking them. They're using a OK Systems (now Metcal) BGA 3000 rework=20
>system.
>
>According to National Semiconductor, LLP's are perfect for a wide variety=
=20
>of applications. Such as:
>
>Cell Phones
>GPS Receivers
>Pagers
>PDA=E2=80=99s
>Personal stereo / CD
>Hard disk drives
>Hand held portable devices
>Toys
>Notebooks
>
>-Steve Gregory-
>
>
>
>
>
>>Hello
>>
>>We are trying to do a detailed Qualification of an assembly and repair-
>>process for LLP (and similar)- packages.
>>Has anybody infomation regarding this subjects.
>>Will the amount of LLP increase in the future?
>>How can I get information about this topic?
>>
>>Best regards
>>
>>Siegmund Zweigart
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:30:57 -0700
>From: Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...
>
>Theory 3, which many of these OEM's may hide behind is that if company A
>buys an ACME pick and place machine and beats the heck out of it, never
>performs any preventive maintenance on the machine, then sells it to=
company
>B. Company B may have problems with the machine and start to assume that
>ACME equipment is awful. Even if the ACME guys come in and say that the
>company A abused the machine and that the performance is not indicative of
>well cared for ACME equipment, it would be hard to change the view of
>management- and thus ACME may lose millions of potential sales in the
>future.
>
>This would often be the OEM argument, and it makes sense, however I believe
>the other theories play as large or larger a part in the equipment buy up.
>
>Steve A
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stephen R. Gregory [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Tuesday,December 11,2001 8:16 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [TN] Interesting trend lately...
> >
> > Just thought I'd pass on something that I've just learned about. We've
> > been
> > looking at purchasing some used, or more politically correct I suppose,
> > "pre-owned" pick and place equipment.
> >
> > Have found out that there are OEM's of these machines out there, that=
are
> > buying as many of the used machines that are out in the open market as
> > they
> > can, to prevent them from being sold to the general market (like us=
guys)
> > that want to buy them...just found that rather interesting...
> >
> > They don't want their used machines being sold and traded, and are=
trying
> > to
> > make sure that anybody that wants their equipment has to buy "New" from
> > them
> > by taking as many of the used machines off the market as they can...I
> > guess
> > that is one marketing strategy...don't really understand it, but I guess
> > that's why I'm not a sales guy...
> >
> > Have any of you heard about this?
> >
> > -Steve Gregory-
> >
> >=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text=
in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
> > Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases=
>
> > E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> > additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> > ext.5315
> >=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:10:29 -0800
>From: "Jana L. Carraway" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Greetings All,
>
>I have in the back of my mind, a dusty place indeed, that IPC had a=
document
>containing Supplier Audit guidelines. I have surfed the IPC site and do=
not
>find such a document in the Technical Publications pdf. Does IPC have
>something like this, or ... I'm losing it!
>Thanks for the help,
>Jana Carraway
>Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:35:56 EST
>From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Sodium Silicate is ionic, and can give you problems passing SIR type=
tests....
>
>Silicon Dioxide is what is found in the little "water absorbing" pillows
>sometimes used in packages to keep things dry...and likely will give you no
>problems whatever.
>
>If you pass the usual ion contamination tests, you can probably ignore the
>whole thing.
>
>Rudy Sedlak
>RD Chemical Company
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:09:14 EST
>From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;=20
>boundary=3D"part1_d0.1f702b33.29492f8a_boundary"
>
>Hi Jana,
>
>Go to www.ipc.org, then click on Online Resources and Databases, then=20
>scroll all the way down to IPC Documents Available for Download and click=
=20
>on that.
>
>You will find:
>
>IPC-1710 OEM
>Standard for Printed Board Manufacturers' Qualification Profile
>
>Developed by the OEM council of the IPC, the MQP sets the standard for=20
>assessing PWB manufacturers capabilities and allows PWB manufacturers to=20
>more easily satisfy customer requirements.
>
>IPC-1720
>Assembly Qualification Profile Developed by the OEM council of the IPC,=20
>IPC-1720 categorized an electronic assembly manufacturer's capabilities=20
>and supplies the OEM customer with detailed, substantive information.
>
>IPC-1730A
>Laminator Qualifier Profile
>Are you a laminate manufacturer looking to provide your customers with a=20
>consistent, detailed report on your facility(s)? IPC-1730A is the one tool=
=20
>laminate manufacturers can use to provide current and potential customers=
=20
>with a profile of their facilities. By completing this questionnaire,=20
>laminators can provide information on materials supplied, approvals and=20
>certifications, testing available, equipment capabilities and more!
>
>IPC-1731
>Strategic Raw Materials Supplier Qualification Profile (SRMSQP)
>Suppliers of raw materials to laminate manufacture now have an industry=20
>approved questionaire to supply current and potential customers with a=20
>self assessment of their facility(s). IPC-1731 gives suppliers of raw=20
>materials the opportunity to create a profile of their manufacturing=20
>facility(s) that will be consistent with those developed by similar=20
>suppliers. Using the MS Word template enables easy creation and=20
>maintenance of the file(s) and provide their customers with an electronic=
=20
>file for their records.
>
>-Steve Gregory-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>Greetings All,
>>
>>I have in the back of my mind, a dusty place indeed, that IPC had a=
document
>>containing Supplier Audit guidelines. I have surfed the IPC site and do=
not
>>find such a document in the Technical Publications pdf. Does IPC have
>>something like this, or ... I'm losing it!
>>Thanks for the help,
>>Jana Carraway
>>Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:25:01 -0700
>From: Lucas Paul-R32425 <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: To form or not to Form
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain
>
>Andre,
>
>Is there clearance around the capacitor? If there is, why not lay the part=
=20
>flat on its side with the legs parallel to the board and then form the=20
>leads to fit the holes? It will take several bends to align to the hole=20
>and another bend to put the leads down into the hole but,the part will be=
=20
>flat against the board and there will be no stress on the leads at the=20
>body part.
>
>Paul
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Andre Leclair [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:26 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [TN] To form or not to Form
>
>
>Hi all
>I hope this gets some good advice.
>
>I have a customer who is requiring the placement of an electrolitic cap
>that has a lead spacing of 0.140" and the PCB has 0.100". They do not want
>the leads formed, they want the part flat to the board. In doing this, am
>I opening myself up to stress induced failures of the component.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET=20
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >=
=20
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700=20
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:47:36 -0800
>From: "Jana L. Carraway" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;=20
>boundary=3D"----=3D_NextPart_000_003B_01C1832C.B3D142C0"
>
>Thank you very much!
>Jana Carraway
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stephen R. Gregory
>>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 2:09 PM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [TN] IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
>>
>>Hi Jana,
>>
>>Go to www.ipc.org, then click on Online Resources and Databases, then=20
>>scroll all the way down to IPC Documents Available for Download and click=
=20
>>on that.
>>
>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:51:36 +0800
>From: "<Peter George Duncan>" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: To form or not to Form
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii
>
>I second Paul's suggestion, and back up all the other comments that have
>been made about the dangers of trying to "normally" mount an electrolytic
>in this situation. Is your customer just arrogantly stubborn, or does he
>have a very good reason for needing the componenet mounted hard down? It
>really isn't possible to do without component damage in the short term,
>unless you are allowed to put a stand-off/isolator washer between component
>and PCB that accommodates the stress relief forming of the leads (such
>isolators are available). The isolator would offer mechanical support to
>the electrolytic while also providing relief to the leads (unless there is
>a height constraint).
>
>If you are still forced to follow customer instruction to hard-mount, I
>would issue a written disclaimer that you will not be held responsible for
>the failure of this component.
>
>Good luck. Hope there isn't too big a rock near the hard place.
>
>Peter Duncan
>
>
>
>
> Lucas
> Paul-R32425 To: [log in to unmask]
> <Paul.Lucas@MOT cc: (bcc: DUNCAN=20
> Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
> OROLA.COM> Aero/ST Group)
> Sent by: Subject: Re: [TN] To form=
=20
> or not to Form
> TechNet
> <[log in to unmask]
> G>
>
>
> 12/13/01 07:25
> AM
> Please respond
> to "TechNet
> E-Mail Forum."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Andre,
>
>Is there clearance around the capacitor? If there is, why not lay the part
>flat on its side with the legs parallel to the board and then form the
>leads to fit the holes? It will take several bends to align to the hole and
>another bend to put the leads down into the hole but,the part will be flat
>against the board and there will be no stress on the leads at the body
>part.
>
>Paul
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Andre Leclair [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:26 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [TN] To form or not to Form
>
>
>Hi all
>I hope this gets some good advice.
>
>I have a customer who is requiring the placement of an electrolitic cap
>that has a lead spacing of 0.140" and the PCB has 0.100". They do not want
>the leads formed, they want the part flat to the board. In doing this, am
>I opening myself up to stress induced failures of the component.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
>
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
>
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>E-mail Archives
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>additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
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>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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>------
>
>
>
>
>
>[This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the
>intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you should
>not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other
>person. Thank you.]
>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:20:14 +0800
>From: Jiang Ping <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: LLP
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>
>LPP from Elantec and MLF from Amkor are similar packages. They have=20
>documents about design and manufacturing issues and should have put them=20
>on their web sites. I can also send the documents to you directly if you=20
>can't find them. We have assemblied a few hundreds of them and found no=20
>defects yet.
>
>Jiang Ping
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Zweigart, Siegmund <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:02 AM
>Subject: [TN] LLP
>
>
>Hello
>
>We are trying to do a detailed Qualification of an assembly and repair-
>process for LLP (and similar)- packages.
>Has anybody infomation regarding this subjects.
>Will the amount of LLP increase in the future?
>How can I get information about this topic?
>
>Best regards
>
>Siegmund Zweigart
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>--------------------
>Kind regards / Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen
>
>Dr. Siegmund Zweigart
>New Technology Manager
>
>Solectron GmbH
>Solectronstrasse 2 Fon. ++49 7032 998 194
>D - 71083 Herrenberg Fax ++49 7032 998 49 222
>
>e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>internet: www.solectron.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
>--------------------
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET=20
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >=
=20
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for=
additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700=20
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
>------Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:21:37 +1300
>From: Michael Bell <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Solderability of Organic Silver PCB's
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;=20
>boundary=3D"----_=3D_NextPart_001_01C18385.463E46A0"
>
>Hi all,
>
>I am currently having a few problems with soldering an Organic Silver=20
>finished PCB. The PCB is a Rodgers material, but I have no information on=
=20
>the exact type. I am using Multicore X33-12i no-clean flux, but this=20
>appears to have no effect on the pads. All of the joints are partial, and=
=20
>have very poor wetting, if any!! Has anyone had similar problems to=20
>this??? Any suggestions on how to fix this?? Unfortunately I can't use a=
=20
>clean flux as I don't have the facility to clean PCB's.
>
>Cheers
>
>Mike
Hi,
I will be back on 12/17/01.
Regards,
Jong
--=====================_1330102==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html>
At 09:18 PM 12/12/01 -0600, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite cite>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001
21:18:22 -0600<br>
Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
From: Automatic digest processor
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: TechNet Digest - 12 Dec 2001 - Special issue
(#2001-774)<br>
To: Recipients of TechNet digests
<[log in to unmask]><br>
<br>
There are 14 messages totalling 945 lines in this issue.<br>
<br>
Topics in this special issue:<br>
<br>
1. Measure of Quality Performance<br>
2. Sodium Silicate Contamination (3)<br>
3. LLP (3)<br>
4. Interesting trend lately...<br>
5. IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines (3)<br>
6. To form or not to Form (2)<br>
7. Solderability of Organic Silver PCB's<br>
<br>
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(<a href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" eudora=3D"autourl">http://www=
.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>)
for additional<br>
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
ext.5315<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:59:00 -0600<br>
From: Scott Kauling=20
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Measure of Quality Performance<br>
<br>
Cathy,<br>
<br>
IPC 7912 is your standard, it explains how to calculate defects per
million<br>
opportunities and how to calculate manufacturing indices for PCA's.<br>
<br>
Good Luck,<br>
SCOTT<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Cathy Killen [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]<br>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:10 AM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: [TN] Measure of
Quality Performance<br>
Importance: High<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
What would technetters recommend as the best measure of quality
performance<br>
in contract assembly with a high level of small to medium batches
(10-100)?<br>
<br>
<br>
Cathy Killen<br>
Training Instructor<br>
Smtek Europe Ltd.<br>
The information contained in the E-mail is confidential. It is
intended<br>
only<br>
for the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is<br>
unauthorised.<br>
The views expressed in this E-mail are those of the author, and do
not<br>
represent the views of Smtek Europe, its associates or subsidiaries,
unless<br>
otherwise expressly indicated.<br>
Please note: It is your responsibility to scan this E-mail for
viruses.<br>
<br>
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------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
---------<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 10:20:26 -0700<br>
From: "Faraci, Jennifer L"
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain<br>
<br>
Do you have any idea how either of these (Sodium Silicate or=20
Silicon<br>
Dioxide) will effect the electrical performance of circuit cards?<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <Rudy Sedlak>
[<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=
eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 1:21 PM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: Re: [TN] Sodium Silicate Contamination<br>
<br>
<br>
Jennifer:<br>
<br>
You probably did not discover Sodium Silcate...which, in small particles
and<br>
quantities is rapidly neutralized by the Carbon Dioxide in air to a form
of<br>
Hydrated Silicon Dioxide.....which is actually known as "Silicic
Acid", but<br>
is about as acidic as Carbon Dioxide in air..<br>
<br>
The truth is that the stuff in small quantities is essentially harmless
to<br>
human beings. I would ignore it.<br>
<br>
If you want to clean it up, probably the only reasonable way is to use
a<br>
simple mild detergent solution. If you want to remove every last
atom of<br>
Silicon Dioxide you would have to use some VERY hazardous=20
chemicals.<br>
<br>
My advice: Have a nice holiday...if people want to feel like they have
"done<br>
something to cure the problem"...wash the floor.<br>
<br>
Rudy Sedlak<br>
RD Chemical Company<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
-----<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:45:13 -0500<br>
From: "MAZZI,DON (HP-Boise,ex1)"
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"windows-1252"<br>
<br>
C:\Program
<a href=3D"file:Vi\SPIOrRam" eudora=3D"autourl">File:Vi\SPIOrRam</a>
Files\Visio<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Faraci, Jennifer L [<a=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=
eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:20 AM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: Re: [TN] Sodium Silicate=
Contamination<br>
<br>
Do you have any idea how either of these (Sodium Silicate or Silicon<br>
Dioxide) will effect the electrical performance of circuit cards?<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <Rudy Sedlak> [<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=
eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 1:21 PM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: Re: [TN] Sodium Silicate Contamination<br>
<br>
<br>
Jennifer:<br>
<br>
You probably did not discover Sodium Silcate...which, in small particles=
and<br>
quantities is rapidly neutralized by the Carbon Dioxide in air to a form=
of<br>
Hydrated Silicon Dioxide.....which is actually known as "Silicic=
Acid", but<br>
is about as acidic as Carbon Dioxide in air..<br>
<br>
The truth is that the stuff in small quantities is essentially harmless=
to<br>
human beings. I would ignore it.<br>
<br>
If you want to clean it up, probably the only reasonable way is to use a<br>
simple mild detergent solution. If you want to remove every last atom=
of<br>
Silicon Dioxide you would have to use some VERY hazardous chemicals.<br>
<br>
My advice: Have a nice holiday...if people want to feel like they have=
"done<br>
something to cure the problem"...wash the floor.<br>
<br>
Rudy Sedlak<br>
RD Chemical Company<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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-----<br>
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
-----<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
-----<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:02:24 +0100<br>
From: "Zweigart, Siegmund"=
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: LLP<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Hello<br>
<br>
We are trying to do a detailed Qualification of an assembly and repair-<br>
process for LLP (and similar)- packages.<br>
Has anybody infomation regarding this subjects.<br>
Will the amount of LLP increase in the future?<br>
How can I get information about this topic?<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Siegmund Zweigart<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
--------------------<br>
Kind regards / Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen<br>
<br>
Dr. Siegmund Zweigart<br>
New Technology Manager<br>
<br>
Solectron GmbH<br>
Solectronstrasse=
2 &n=
bsp; Fon. ++49 7032 998 194<br>
D - 71083=
Herrenberg  =
; Fax ++49 7032 998 49 222<br>
<br>
e-mail: [log in to unmask]<br>
internet: <a href=3D"http://www.solectron.com/"=
eudora=3D"autourl">www.solectron.com</a><br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
--------------------<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:54:59 EST<br>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory"=
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: LLP<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;=
boundary=3D"part1_d7.10976ab6.29490203_boundary"<br>
<br>
<font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>Hi Siegmund! <br>
<br>
Go to: <a href=3D"http://www.national.com/packaging/llp/"=
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.national.com/packaging/llp/</a> <br>
<br>
and you'll find Application Notes AN-1187 which is all about LLP's.=
Designing them in assemblies, reflow profiles, and rework procedures.=
There's even a RealMedia video there that is showing the steps to use when=
reworking them. They're using a OK Systems (now Metcal) BGA 3000 rework=
system. <br>
<br>
According to National Semiconductor, LLP's are perfect for a wide variety of=
applications. Such as: <br>
<br>
Cell Phones</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>GPS Receivers</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>Pagers</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>PDA=E2=80=99s</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>Personal stereo / CD</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>Hard disk drives</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>Hand held portable devices</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>Toys</font> <br>
<font size=3D2>Notebooks</font> <br>
<br>
-Steve Gregory- <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size=3D2><blockquote type=3Dcite cite>Hello <br>
<br>
We are trying to do a detailed Qualification of an assembly and repair- <br>
process for LLP (and similar)- packages. <br>
Has anybody infomation regarding this subjects. <br>
Will the amount of LLP increase in the future? <br>
How can I get information about this topic? <br>
<br>
Best regards <br>
<br>
Siegmund Zweigart </font></blockquote><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font face=3D"arial">Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:30:57=
-0700<br>
From: Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Interesting trend lately...<br>
<br>
Theory 3, which many of these OEM's may hide behind is that if company A<br>
buys an ACME pick and place machine and beats the heck out of it, never<br>
performs any preventive maintenance on the machine, then sells it to=
company<br>
B. Company B may have problems with the machine and start to assume=
that<br>
ACME equipment is awful. Even if the ACME guys come in and say that=
the<br>
company A abused the machine and that the performance is not indicative=
of<br>
well cared for ACME equipment, it would be hard to change the view of<br>
management- and thus ACME may lose millions of potential sales in the<br>
future.<br>
<br>
This would often be the OEM argument, and it makes sense, however I=
believe<br>
the other theories play as large or larger a part in the equipment buy=
up.<br>
<br>
Steve A<br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Stephen R. Gregory [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]<br>
> Sent: Tuesday,December 11,2001 8:16 PM<br>
> To: [log in to unmask]<br>
> Subject: [TN] Interesting trend=
lately...<br>
><br>
> Just thought I'd pass on something that I've just learned about.=
We've<br>
> been<br>
> looking at purchasing some used, or more politically correct I=
suppose,<br>
> "pre-owned" pick and place equipment.<br>
><br>
> Have found out that there are OEM's of these machines out there, that=
are<br>
> buying as many of the used machines that are out in the open market=
as<br>
> they<br>
> can, to prevent them from being sold to the general market (like us=
guys)<br>
> that want to buy them...just found that rather interesting...<br>
><br>
> They don't want their used machines being sold and traded, and are=
trying<br>
> to<br>
> make sure that anybody that wants their equipment has to buy=
"New" from<br>
> them<br>
> by taking as many of the used machines off the market as they=
can...I<br>
> guess<br>
> that is one marketing strategy...don't really understand it, but I=
guess<br>
> that's why I'm not a sales guy...<br>
><br>
> Have any of you heard about this?<br>
><br>
> -Steve Gregory-<br>
><br>
>=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------<=
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1.8d<br>
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" eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>) for<br>
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> ext.5315<br>
>=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------<=
br>
> -------<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:10:29 -0800<br>
From: "Jana L. Carraway"=
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"<br>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<br>
<br>
Greetings All,<br>
<br>
I have in the back of my mind, a dusty place indeed, that IPC had a=
document<br>
containing Supplier Audit guidelines. I have surfed the IPC site and=
do not<br>
find such a document in the Technical Publications pdf. Does IPC=
have<br>
something like this, or ... I'm losing it!<br>
Thanks for the help,<br>
Jana Carraway<br>
Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:35:56 EST<br>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>"=
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Sodium Silicate Contamination<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII"<br>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<br>
<br>
Sodium Silicate is ionic, and can give you problems passing SIR type=
tests....<br>
<br>
Silicon Dioxide is what is found in the little "water absorbing"=
pillows<br>
sometimes used in packages to keep things dry...and likely will give you=
no<br>
problems whatever.<br>
<br>
If you pass the usual ion contamination tests, you can probably ignore=
the<br>
whole thing.<br>
<br>
Rudy Sedlak<br>
RD Chemical Company<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:09:14 EST<br>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory"=
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;=
boundary=3D"part1_d0.1f702b33.29492f8a_boundary"<br>
<br>
</font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>Hi Jana, <br>
<br>
Go to <a href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/" eudora=3D"autourl">www.ipc.org</a>,=
then click on Online Resources and Databases, then scroll all the way down=
to IPC Documents Available for Download and click on that. <br>
<br>
You will find: <br>
<br>
IPC-1710 OEM <br>
Standard for Printed Board Manufacturers' Qualification Profile <br>
<br>
Developed by the OEM council of the IPC, the MQP sets the standard for=
assessing PWB manufacturers capabilities and allows PWB manufacturers to=
more easily satisfy customer requirements. <br>
<br>
IPC-1720 <br>
Assembly Qualification Profile Developed by the OEM council of the IPC,=
IPC-1720 categorized an electronic assembly manufacturer's capabilities and=
supplies the OEM customer with detailed, substantive information. <br>
<br>
IPC-1730A <br>
Laminator Qualifier Profile <br>
Are you a laminate manufacturer looking to provide your customers with a=
consistent, detailed report on your facility(s)? IPC-1730A is the one tool=
laminate manufacturers can use to provide current and potential customers=
with a profile of their facilities. By completing this questionnaire,=
laminators can provide information on materials supplied, approvals and=
certifications, testing available, equipment capabilities and more! <br>
<br>
IPC-1731 <br>
Strategic Raw Materials Supplier Qualification Profile (SRMSQP) <br>
Suppliers of raw materials to laminate manufacture now have an industry=
approved questionaire to supply current and potential customers with a self=
assessment of their facility(s). IPC-1731 gives suppliers of raw materials=
the opportunity to create a profile of their manufacturing facility(s) that=
will be consistent with those developed by similar suppliers. Using the MS=
Word template enables easy creation and maintenance of the file(s) and=
provide their customers with an electronic file for their records. <br>
<br>
-Steve Gregory- <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=3Dcite cite>Greetings All, <br>
<br>
I have in the back of my mind, a dusty place indeed, that IPC had a document=
<br>
containing Supplier Audit guidelines. I have surfed the IPC site and=
do not <br>
find such a document in the Technical Publications pdf. Does IPC have=
<br>
something like this, or ... I'm losing it! <br>
Thanks for the help, <br>
Jana Carraway <br>
Micro Systems Engineering, Inc. </font></blockquote><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font face=3D"arial">Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:25:01=
-0700<br>
From: Lucas Paul-R32425=
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: To form or not to Form<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain<br>
<br>
Andre,<br>
<br>
Is there clearance around the capacitor? If there is, why not lay the part=
flat on its side with the legs parallel to the board and then form the=
leads to fit the holes? It will take several bends to align to the hole and=
another bend to put the leads down into the hole but,the part will be flat=
against the board and there will be no stress on the leads at the body=
part.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Andre Leclair [<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=
eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:26 AM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: [TN] To form or not to Form<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi all<br>
I hope this gets some good advice.<br>
<br>
I have a customer who is requiring the placement of an electrolitic cap<br>
that has a lead spacing of 0.140" and the PCB has 0.100". =
They do not want<br>
the leads formed, they want the part flat to the board. In doing this,=
am<br>
I opening myself up to stress induced failures of the component.<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----<br>
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<br>
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text=
in<br>
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet<br>
To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET=
Technet NOMAIL<br>
Search previous postings at: <a href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/"=
eudora=3D"autourl">www.ipc.org</a> > On-Line Resources & Databases=
> E-mail Archives<br>
Please visit IPC web site (<a href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm"=
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>) for=
additional<br>
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700=
ext.5315<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:47:36 -0800<br>
From: "Jana L. Carraway"=
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;=
boundary=3D"----=3D_NextPart_000_003B_01C1832C.B3D142C0"<br>
<br>
</font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2 color=3D"#0000FF">Thank you very=
much!</font><br>
Jana Carraway<blockquote><font face=3D"tahoma" size=3D2>
<dl>
<dd>-----Original Message-----
<dd>From:</b> TechNet [<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=
eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]]</a><a=
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora=3D"autourl">On</a> Behalf Of=
</b>Stephen R. Gregory
<dd>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 12, 2001 2:09 PM
<dd>To:</b> [log in to unmask]
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [TN] IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines<br>
<br>
</font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2>
<dd>Hi Jana, <br>
<br>
<dd>Go to <a href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/" eudora=3D"autourl">www.ipc.org</a>=
, then click on Online Resources and Databases, then scroll all the way down=
to IPC Documents Available for Download and click on that. <br>
<br>
</font></blockquote><font face=3D"arial">
</dl>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:51:36 +0800<br>
From: "<Peter George Duncan>"=
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: To form or not to Form<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii<br>
<br>
I second Paul's suggestion, and back up all the other comments that have<br>
been made about the dangers of trying to "normally" mount an=
electrolytic<br>
in this situation. Is your customer just arrogantly stubborn, or does he<br>
have a very good reason for needing the componenet mounted hard down? It<br>
really isn't possible to do without component damage in the short term,<br>
unless you are allowed to put a stand-off/isolator washer between=
component<br>
and PCB that accommodates the stress relief forming of the leads (such<br>
isolators are available). The isolator would offer mechanical support to<br>
the electrolytic while also providing relief to the leads (unless there=
is<br>
a height constraint).<br>
<br>
If you are still forced to follow customer instruction to hard-mount, I<br>
would issue a written disclaimer that you will not be held responsible=
for<br>
the failure of this component.<br>
<br>
Good luck. Hope there isn't too big a rock near the hard place.<br>
<br>
Peter Duncan<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
&nbs=
p; Lucas<br>
&nbs=
p; =
Paul-R32425 &nbs=
p; To: [log in to unmask]<br>
&nbs=
p; =
<Paul.Lucas@MOT =
cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST<br>
&nbs=
p; =
OROLA.COM> &n=
bsp; Aero/ST Group)<br>
&nbs=
p; Sent=
by: =
Subject: Re: [TN] To form or not to=
Form<br>
&nbs=
p; TechNet<br>
&nbs=
p; <[log in to unmask]<br>
&nbs=
p; G><br>
<br>
<br>
&nbs=
p; 12/13/01 07:25<br>
&nbs=
p; AM<br>
&nbs=
p; Please respond<br>
&nbs=
p; to "TechNet<br>
&nbs=
p; E-Mail Forum."<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Andre,<br>
<br>
Is there clearance around the capacitor? If there is, why not lay the=
part<br>
flat on its side with the legs parallel to the board and then form the<br>
leads to fit the holes? It will take several bends to align to the hole=
and<br>
another bend to put the leads down into the hole but,the part will be=
flat<br>
against the board and there will be no stress on the leads at the body<br>
part.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Andre Leclair [<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=
eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:26 AM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: [TN] To form or not to Form<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi all<br>
I hope this gets some good advice.<br>
<br>
I have a customer who is requiring the placement of an electrolitic cap<br>
that has a lead spacing of 0.140" and the PCB has 0.100". =
They do not want<br>
the leads formed, they want the part flat to the board. In doing this,=
am<br>
I opening myself up to stress induced failures of the component.<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----<br>
<br>
Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<br>
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Please visit IPC web site (<a href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm"=
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additional<br>
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ext.5315<br>
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<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>) for<br>
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ext.5315<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
[This e-mail is confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not=
the<br>
intended recipient, please delete it and notify us immediately; you=
should<br>
not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any=
other<br>
person. Thank you.]<br>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:20:14 +0800<br>
From: Jiang Ping <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: LLP<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
LPP from Elantec and MLF from Amkor are similar packages. They have=
documents about design and manufacturing issues and should have put them on=
their web sites. I can also send the documents to you directly if you can't=
find them. We have assemblied a few hundreds of them and found no defects=
yet.<br>
<br>
Jiang Ping<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- <br>
From: Zweigart, Siegmund <[log in to unmask]><br>
To: <[log in to unmask]><br>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:02 AM<br>
Subject: [TN] LLP<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello<br>
<br>
We are trying to do a detailed Qualification of an assembly and repair-<br>
process for LLP (and similar)- packages.<br>
Has anybody infomation regarding this subjects.<br>
Will the amount of LLP increase in the future?<br>
How can I get information about this topic?<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Siegmund Zweigart<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
--------------------<br>
Kind regards / Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen<br>
<br>
Dr. Siegmund Zweigart<br>
New Technology Manager<br>
<br>
Solectron GmbH<br>
Solectronstrasse=
2 &n=
bsp; Fon. ++49 7032 998 194<br>
D - 71083=
Herrenberg  =
; Fax ++49 7032 998 49 222<br>
<br>
e-mail: [log in to unmask]<br>
internet: <a href=3D"http://www.solectron.com/"=
eudora=3D"autourl">www.solectron.com</a><br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
--------------------<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----<br>
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Please visit IPC web site (<a href=3D"http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm"=
eudora=3D"autourl">http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>) for=
additional<br>
information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700=
ext.5315<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:21:37 +1300<br>
From: Michael Bell <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Solderability of Organic Silver PCB's<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;=
boundary=3D"----_=3D_NextPart_001_01C18385.463E46A0"<br>
<br>
</font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2 color=3D"#0000FF">Hi all,</font><br>
<font face=3D"arial"> <br>
</font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2 color=3D"#0000FF">I am currently having=
a few problems with soldering an Organic Silver finished PCB. The PCB=
is a Rodgers material, but I have no information on the exact type. I=
am using Multicore X33-12i no-clean flux, but this appears to have no=
effect on the pads. All of the joints are partial, and have very poor=
wetting, if any!! Has anyone had similar problems to this??? =
Any suggestions on how to fix this?? Unfortunately I can't use a=
clean flux as I don't have the facility to clean PCB's.</font><br>
<font face=3D"arial"> <br>
</font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2 color=3D"#0000FF">Cheers</font><br>
<font face=3D"arial"> <br>
</font><font face=3D"arial" size=3D2 color=3D"#0000FF">Mike</font><font=
face=3D"arial"></blockquote>Hi,<br>
<br>
I will be back on 12/17/01.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Jong<br>
</font></html>
--=====================_1330102==_.ALT--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:57:54 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: jong s kadesch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 13 Dec 2001
(#2001-776))
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=====================_1333006==_.ALT"
--=====================_1333006==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 12:00 AM 12/14/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:00:04 -0600
>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: TechNet Digest - 13 Dec 2001 (#2001-776)
>To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There are 8 messages totalling 516 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. porosity of gold plating on nickel (2)
> 2. Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA (2)
> 3. .050 PWB (2)
> 4. PCB Density Study/Design Quoting
> 5. photoplotters
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:30:15 -0500
>From: "Vandendolder, Ron" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: porosity of gold plating on nickel
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Kris,
>
>Although not quantitative, I was impressed with some SEM's (Scanning
>Electron Microscope)
>pictures taken of some gold plated Duroid boards that were not performing as
>expected. The pictures showed globular deposits of gold on the top surface.
>Where the globular deposits didn't
>touch, nickel was clearly showing.
>
>Ron VandenDolder
>Product Development Group
>Telaxis Communications
>SouthDeerfield, MA
>413-665-8551
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kris Keating [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:31 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [TN] porosity of gold plating on nickel
>
>
>Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of determining porosity of gold
>plating over nickel on a PCB?
>
>
>Kristopher J. Keating
>Technical Service Engineer
>Circuit-Wise, Inc.
>400 Sackett Point Rd.
>North Haven, CT 06473
>Tel. (203) 281-6511
>Fax (203) 287-8409
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:44:57 -0700
>From: Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
>
>Hey Stacy,
>
>It sounds as though on paper, your process is OK. Just to fill you in on
>aspect ratio, that is aperture width/stencil thickness. This is a good rule
>of thumb for rectangular apertures such as for fine pitch components. For
>small circular or square apertures most people use the area aspect ratio
>which is aperture area/wall area. The area aspect ratio should be above
>..66. Thus on a .005" thick stencil with a .0135" square aperture you are
>looking at (.0135*.0135)/((.0135*.005)*4) = .675.
>Actually the area aspect ratio for a .0135" round aperture is the same as
>that for a square aperture, yet release on the square aperture has generally
>been proven to be better (don't forget a .002" or .003" radius on the
>corners).
>
>Anyway my point was going to be that I had the exact same apertures ordered
>on one particular project, and the apertures all clogged up (luckily we
>caught them at the visual step). It seems the apertures were severely
>undersized (more like .0122" x .0122"). So are your apertures really
>..0135"?
>
>As Kathy mentioned, kneed or condition your paste. The paste may take a few
>prints to fully mix and provide the thixotropic characteristics that you
>want. We use a dummy board for the first print, and then print our first
>production board.
>
>Personally I think you could get away with a .015" aperture if you are
>dealing with a .0315" pitch product. Even if they undercut your stencil,
>you should be fine.
>
>Good luck....
>
>Steve A
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: My Nguyen [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Tuesday,December 11,2001 11:43 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [TN] Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Problem description:
> >
> > Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.
> > Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball
> > height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)
> > 5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure
> > modules came from opening soder join or no solder join
> > at all. As we inspect the screen printing process (we
> > use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning
> > rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we
> > found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has very
> > little solder or no solder at all.
> >
> > Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape aperture,
> > 13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.
> >
> > We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then
> > we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce the
> > stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or
> > resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or
> > many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,
> > short-life, etc)
> >
> > What would be your solution?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Stacy
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
> > Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
> > E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> > additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> > ext.5315
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:49:52 -0800
>From: Mark Mazzoli <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: porosity of gold plating on nickel
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>Hi Kris,
>Try IPC TM-650 2.3.24.2 Nitric Vapor Test. That's the easiest one I'm
>aware of.
>Here's a link:http://www.ipc.org/html/2.3.24.2.pdf
>
>Mark Mazzoli
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 02:30 PM 12/13/01 -0500, you wrote:
>>Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of determining porosity of gold
>>plating over nickel on a PCB?
>>
>>
>>Kristopher J. Keating
>>Technical Service Engineer
>>Circuit-Wise, Inc.
>>400 Sackett Point Rd.
>>North Haven, CT 06473
>>Tel. (203) 281-6511
>>Fax (203) 287-8409
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-------
>>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>>Technet NOMAIL
>>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>>E-mail Archives
>>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>>ext.5315
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-------
>>
>
>
>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:44:57 -0700
>From: Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Hey Stacy,
>
>It sounds as though on paper, your process is OK. Just to fill you in on
>aspect ratio, that is aperture width/stencil thickness. This is a good rule
>of thumb for rectangular apertures such as for fine pitch components. For
>small circular or square apertures most people use the area aspect ratio
>which is aperture area/wall area. The area aspect ratio should be above
>66. Thus on a .005" thick stencil with a .0135" square aperture you are
>looking at (.0135*.0135)/((.0135*.005)*4) = .675.
>Actually the area aspect ratio for a .0135" round aperture is the same as
>that for a square aperture, yet release on the square aperture has generally
>been proven to be better (don't forget a .002" or .003" radius on the
>corners).
>
>Anyway my point was going to be that I had the exact same apertures ordered
>on one particular project, and the apertures all clogged up (luckily we
>caught them at the visual step). It seems the apertures were severely
>undersized (more like .0122" x .0122"). So are your apertures really
>0135"?
>
>As Kathy mentioned, kneed or condition your paste. The paste may take a few
>prints to fully mix and provide the thixotropic characteristics that you
>want. We use a dummy board for the first print, and then print our first
>production board.
>
>Personally I think you could get away with a .015" aperture if you are
>dealing with a .0315" pitch product. Even if they undercut your stencil,
>you should be fine.
>
>Good luck....
>
>Steve A
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: My Nguyen [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Tuesday,December 11,2001 11:43 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [TN] Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Problem description:
> >
> > Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.
> > Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball
> > height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)
> > 5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure
> > modules came from opening soder join or no solder join
> > at all. As we inspect the screen printing process (we
> > use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning
> > rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we
> > found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has very
> > little solder or no solder at all.
> >
> > Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape aperture,
> > 13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.
> >
> > We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then
> > we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce the
> > stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or
> > resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or
> > many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,
> > short-life, etc)
> >
> > What would be your solution?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Stacy
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
> > Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
> > E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> > additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
> > ext.5315
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:10:13 -0500
>From: Tony Steinke <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: .050 PWB
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Darrel,
>I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but almost all board shops should be able
>to manufacture you construction with their eyes closed.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Darrel Therriault <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:41 PM
>Subject: [TN] .050 PWB
>
>
> > Technet.....
> >
> > PWB designer and fab folks........We are considering building an .050"
> > PWB with 2 oz Cu, 6-8 layers.
> >
> > Any heartburn or horror stories with this design or is this within
> > normal capability from the design and fab perspective??
> >
> > DT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Darrel Therriault
> > VP, Mfg. Operations
> > INCEP Technologies, Inc
> > (858)547-9925 223
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:10:06 -0500
>From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: .050 PWB
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Tony's right unless
>you do something "unadvisable" such as an unbalanced construction, isolated
>traces without thieving . . .
>
>Hans
>Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Hans M. Hinners
>Electronics Engineer
>Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
>226 Cochran Street
>Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
>
>mailto:[log in to unmask]
>
>Com: (478) 926 - 5224
>Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
>DSN Prefix: 468
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tony Steinke [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 4:10 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] .050 PWB
>
>
>Darrel,
>I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but almost all board shops should be able
>to manufacture you construction with their eyes closed.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Darrel Therriault <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:41 PM
>Subject: [TN] .050 PWB
>
>
> > Technet.....
> >
> > PWB designer and fab folks........We are considering building an .050"
> > PWB with 2 oz Cu, 6-8 layers.
> >
> > Any heartburn or horror stories with this design or is this within
> > normal capability from the design and fab perspective??
> >
> > DT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Darrel Therriault
> > VP, Mfg. Operations
> > INCEP Technologies, Inc
> > (858)547-9925 223
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:25:07 -0600
>From: Mike Clemente <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: PCB Density Study/Design Quoting
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>I need to find an accurate PCB density study method and also an efficient
>method of quoting PCB designs.
>
>Has anyone used the density study in IPC-2221? Is it accurate for
>Thru-hole and SMT? Are there other methods out there for density study?
>
>Also, does anyone have any specifics or know where to obtain information
>on Quoting PCB design from Schematic to Layout, to Manufacture and
>Assembly of PCB?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike Clemente, C.I.D.
>Sr. PCB Design Specialist
>dZinit Applied Technologies
>Tel: 847-545-8170
>Fax: 847-545-8175
>Email: [log in to unmask]
>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:27:57 -0800
>From: Karla Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: photoplotters
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate any
>input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco Crescent
>30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you have any
>comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.
>
>
>Karla Thompson
>CAM Technician
>Electronic Controls Design, Inc
>Tel: (503) 829-9108
>email: [log in to unmask]
Hi,
I will be back on 12/17/01.
Regards,
Jong
--=====================_1333006==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<x-html><div>At 12:00 AM 12/14/01 -0600, you wrote:</div>
<blockquote type=cite><div>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001
00:00:04 -0600</div>
<div>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>From: Automatic digest processor
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: TechNet Digest - 13 Dec 2001 (#2001-776)</div>
<div>To: Recipients of TechNet
digests <[log in to unmask]></div>
<br>
<div>There are 8 messages totalling 516 lines in this issue.</div>
<br>
<div>Topics of the day:</div>
<br>
<div> 1. porosity of gold plating on nickel (2)</div>
<div> 2. Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA (2)</div>
<div> 3. .050 PWB (2)</div>
<div> 4. PCB Density Study/Design Quoting</div>
<div> 5. photoplotters</div>
<br>
<div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d</div>
<div>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in</div>
<div>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet</div>
<div>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:
SET Technet NOMAIL</div>
<div>Search previous postings at:
<a href="http://www.ipc.org/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>www.ipc.org</a> > On-Line
Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives</div>
<div>Please visit IPC web site
(<a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>)
for additional</div>
<div>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315</div>
<div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:30:15 -0500</div>
<div>From: "Vandendolder, Ron"
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: porosity of gold plating on nickel</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<br>
<div>Kris,</div>
<br>
<div>Although not quantitative, I was impressed with some SEM's
(Scanning</div>
<div>Electron Microscope)</div>
<div>pictures taken of some gold plated Duroid boards that were not
performing as</div>
<div>expected. The pictures showed globular deposits of gold on the
top surface.</div>
<div>Where the globular deposits didn't</div>
<div>touch, nickel was clearly showing.</div>
<br>
<div>Ron VandenDolder</div>
<div>Product Development Group</div>
<div>Telaxis Communications</div>
<div>SouthDeerfield, MA</div>
<div>413-665-8551</div>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: Kris Keating
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]</div>
<div>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:31 PM</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: [TN] porosity of gold plating on nickel</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of determining porosity
of gold</div>
<div>plating over nickel on a PCB?</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Kristopher J. Keating</div>
<div>Technical Service Engineer</div>
<div>Circuit-Wise, Inc.</div>
<div>400 Sackett Point Rd.</div>
<div>North Haven, CT 06473</div>
<div>Tel. (203) 281-6511</div>
<div>Fax (203) 287-8409</div>
<br>
<div>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>-----</div>
<div>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d</div>
<div>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
text in</div>
<div>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet</div>
<div>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:
SET</div>
<div>Technet NOMAIL</div>
<div>Search previous postings at:
<a href="http://www.ipc.org/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>www.ipc.org</a> > On-Line
Resources & Databases ></div>
<div>E-mail Archives</div>
<div>Please visit IPC web site
(<a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>)
for additional</div>
<div>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700</div>
<div>ext.5315</div>
<div>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>-----</div>
<div>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:44:57 -0700</div>
<div>From: Steve Abrahamson
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA</div>
<br>
<div>Hey Stacy,</div>
<br>
<div>It sounds as though on paper, your process is OK. Just to fill
you in on</div>
<div>aspect ratio, that is aperture width/stencil thickness. This
is a good rule</div>
<div>of thumb for rectangular apertures such as for fine pitch
components. For</div>
<div>small circular or square apertures most people use the area aspect
ratio</div>
<div>which is aperture area/wall area. The area aspect ratio should
be above</div>
<div>..66. Thus on a .005" thick stencil with a .0135"
square aperture you are</div>
<div>looking at (.0135*.0135)/((.0135*.005)*4) = .675.</div>
<div>Actually the area aspect ratio for a .0135" round aperture is
the same as</div>
<div>that for a square aperture, yet release on the square aperture has
generally</div>
<div>been proven to be better (don't forget a .002" or .003"
radius on the</div>
<div>corners).</div>
<br>
<div>Anyway my point was going to be that I had the exact same apertures
ordered</div>
<div>on one particular project, and the apertures all clogged up (luckily
we</div>
<div>caught them at the visual step). It seems the apertures were
severely</div>
<div>undersized (more like .0122" x .0122"). So are your
apertures really</div>
<div>..0135"?</div>
<br>
<div>As Kathy mentioned, kneed or condition your paste. The paste
may take a few</div>
<div>prints to fully mix and provide the thixotropic characteristics that
you</div>
<div>want. We use a dummy board for the first print, and then print
our first</div>
<div>production board.</div>
<br>
<div>Personally I think you could get away with a .015" aperture if
you are</div>
<div>dealing with a .0315" pitch product. Even if they
undercut your stencil,</div>
<div>you should be fine.</div>
<br>
<div>Good luck....</div>
<br>
<div>Steve A</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>> -----Original Message-----</div>
<div>> From: My Nguyen [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]</div>
<div>> Sent: Tuesday,December 11,2001 11:43 AM</div>
<div>> To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>> Subject: [TN] Inefficient solder
on Toshiba micro BGA</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Hello all,</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Problem description:</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.</div>
<div>> Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball</div>
<div>> height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)</div>
<div>> 5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure</div>
<div>> modules came from opening soder join or no solder join</div>
<div>> at all. As we inspect the screen printing process
(we</div>
<div>> use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning</div>
<div>> rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we</div>
<div>> found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has
very</div>
<div>> little solder or no solder at all.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape
aperture,</div>
<div>> 13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then</div>
<div>> we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce
the</div>
<div>> stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or</div>
<div>> resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or</div>
<div>> many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,</div>
<div>> short-life, etc)</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> What would be your solution?</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Thanks,</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Stacy</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> __________________________________________________</div>
<div>> Do You Yahoo!?</div>
<div>> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all
of</div>
<div>> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at
<a href="http://shopping.yahoo.com/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://shopping.yahoo.com</a></div>
<div>> or bid at
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<div>></div>
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<div>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:49:52 -0800</div>
<div>From: Mark Mazzoli
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: porosity of gold plating on nickel</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii";
format=flowed</div>
<br>
<div>Hi Kris,</div>
<div>Try IPC TM-650 2.3.24.2 Nitric Vapor Test. That's the easiest
one I'm</div>
<div>aware of.</div>
<div>Here's a
link:<a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/2.3.24.2.pdf" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.ipc.org/html/2.3.24.2.pdf</a></div>
<br>
<div>Mark Mazzoli</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>At 02:30 PM 12/13/01 -0500, you wrote:</div>
<blockquote type=cite><div>Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of
determining porosity of gold</div>
<div>plating over nickel on a PCB?</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Kristopher J. Keating</div>
<div>Technical Service Engineer</div>
<div>Circuit-Wise, Inc.</div>
<div>400 Sackett Point Rd.</div>
<div>North Haven, CT 06473</div>
<div>Tel. (203) 281-6511</div>
<div>Fax (203) 287-8409</div>
<br>
<div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d</div>
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<div>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
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<div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<br>
</blockquote><br>
<br>
<div>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:44:57 -0700</div>
<div>From: Steve Abrahamson
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<div>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit</div>
<br>
<div>Hey Stacy,</div>
<br>
<div>It sounds as though on paper, your process is OK. Just to fill
you in on</div>
<div>aspect ratio, that is aperture width/stencil thickness. This
is a good rule</div>
<div>of thumb for rectangular apertures such as for fine pitch
components. For</div>
<div>small circular or square apertures most people use the area aspect
ratio</div>
<div>which is aperture area/wall area. The area aspect ratio should
be above</div>
<div>66. Thus on a .005" thick stencil with a .0135"
square aperture you are</div>
<div>looking at (.0135*.0135)/((.0135*.005)*4) = .675.</div>
<div>Actually the area aspect ratio for a .0135" round aperture is
the same as</div>
<div>that for a square aperture, yet release on the square aperture has
generally</div>
<div>been proven to be better (don't forget a .002" or .003"
radius on the</div>
<div>corners).</div>
<br>
<div>Anyway my point was going to be that I had the exact same apertures
ordered</div>
<div>on one particular project, and the apertures all clogged up (luckily
we</div>
<div>caught them at the visual step). It seems the apertures were
severely</div>
<div>undersized (more like .0122" x .0122"). So are your
apertures really</div>
<div>0135"?</div>
<br>
<div>As Kathy mentioned, kneed or condition your paste. The paste
may take a few</div>
<div>prints to fully mix and provide the thixotropic characteristics that
you</div>
<div>want. We use a dummy board for the first print, and then print
our first</div>
<div>production board.</div>
<br>
<div>Personally I think you could get away with a .015" aperture if
you are</div>
<div>dealing with a .0315" pitch product. Even if they
undercut your stencil,</div>
<div>you should be fine.</div>
<br>
<div>Good luck....</div>
<br>
<div>Steve A</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>> -----Original Message-----</div>
<div>> From: My Nguyen [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]</div>
<div>> Sent: Tuesday,December 11,2001 11:43 AM</div>
<div>> To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>> Subject: [TN] Inefficient solder
on Toshiba micro BGA</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Hello all,</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Problem description:</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.</div>
<div>> Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball</div>
<div>> height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)</div>
<div>> 5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure</div>
<div>> modules came from opening soder join or no solder join</div>
<div>> at all. As we inspect the screen printing process
(we</div>
<div>> use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning</div>
<div>> rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we</div>
<div>> found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has
very</div>
<div>> little solder or no solder at all.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape
aperture,</div>
<div>> 13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then</div>
<div>> we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce
the</div>
<div>> stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or</div>
<div>> resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or</div>
<div>> many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,</div>
<div>> short-life, etc)</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> What would be your solution?</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Thanks,</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Stacy</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> __________________________________________________</div>
<div>> Do You Yahoo!?</div>
<div>> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all
of</div>
<div>> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at
<a href="http://shopping.yahoo.com/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://shopping.yahoo.com</a></div>
<div>> or bid at
<a href="http://auctions.yahoo.com/" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://auctions.yahoo.com</a></div>
<div>></div>
<div>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>> -------</div>
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LISTSERV 1.8d</div>
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<div>> Please visit IPC web site
(<a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>)
for</div>
<div>> additional</div>
<div>> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700</div>
<div>> ext.5315</div>
<div>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>> -------</div>
<br>
<div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
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<div>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
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<div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:10:13 -0500</div>
<div>From: Tony Steinke
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: .050 PWB</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<div>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit</div>
<br>
<div>Darrel,</div>
<div>I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but almost all board shops should
be able</div>
<div>to manufacture you construction with their eyes closed.</div>
<div>----- Original Message -----</div>
<div>From: Darrel Therriault <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>To: <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:41 PM</div>
<div>Subject: [TN] .050 PWB</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>> Technet.....</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> PWB designer and fab folks........We are considering building
an .050"</div>
<div>> PWB with 2 oz Cu, 6-8 layers.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Any heartburn or horror stories with this design or is this
within</div>
<div>> normal capability from the design and fab perspective??</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> DT</div>
<div>></div>
<div>></div>
<div>></div>
<div>></div>
<div>> --</div>
<div>> Darrel Therriault</div>
<div>> VP, Mfg. Operations</div>
<div>> INCEP Technologies, Inc</div>
<div>> (858)547-9925 223</div>
<div>> [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>></div>
<div>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>-------</div>
<div>> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using
LISTSERV 1.8d</div>
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<div>> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
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<div>> Please visit IPC web site
(<a href="http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm</a>)
for</div>
<div>additional</div>
<div>> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700</div>
<div>ext.5315</div>
<div>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>-------</div>
<div>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:10:06 -0500</div>
<div>From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: .050 PWB</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<br>
<div>Tony's right unless</div>
<div>you do something "unadvisable" such as an unbalanced
construction, isolated</div>
<div>traces without thieving . . .</div>
<br>
<div>Hans</div>
<div>Integrity First - Service Before Self -
Excellence in All We Do</div>
<div>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</div>
<div>Hans M. Hinners</div>
<div>Electronics Engineer</div>
<div>Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)</div>
<div>226 Cochran Street</div>
<div>Robins AFB GA 31098-1622</div>
<br>
<div><a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]</a></div>
<br>
<div>Com: (478) 926 - 5224</div>
<div>Fax: (478) 926 - 4911</div>
<div>DSN Prefix: 468</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: Tony Steinke
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]</div>
<div>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 4:10 PM</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [TN] .050 PWB</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Darrel,</div>
<div>I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but almost all board shops should
be able</div>
<div>to manufacture you construction with their eyes closed.</div>
<div>----- Original Message -----</div>
<div>From: Darrel Therriault <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>To: <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:41 PM</div>
<div>Subject: [TN] .050 PWB</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>> Technet.....</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> PWB designer and fab folks........We are considering building
an .050"</div>
<div>> PWB with 2 oz Cu, 6-8 layers.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> Any heartburn or horror stories with this design or is this
within</div>
<div>> normal capability from the design and fab perspective??</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> DT</div>
<div>></div>
<div>></div>
<div>></div>
<div>></div>
<div>> --</div>
<div>> Darrel Therriault</div>
<div>> VP, Mfg. Operations</div>
<div>> INCEP Technologies, Inc</div>
<div>> (858)547-9925 223</div>
<div>> [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>></div>
<div>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>-------</div>
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LISTSERV 1.8d</div>
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<div>-----</div>
<div>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:25:07 -0600</div>
<div>From: Mike Clemente
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: PCB Density Study/Design Quoting</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII</div>
<br>
<div>Hello everyone,</div>
<br>
<div>I need to find an accurate PCB density study method and also an
efficient method of quoting PCB designs.</div>
<br>
<div>Has anyone used the density study in IPC-2221? Is it accurate for
Thru-hole and SMT? Are there other methods out there for density
study?</div>
<br>
<div>Also, does anyone have any specifics or know where to obtain
information on Quoting PCB design from Schematic to Layout, to
Manufacture and Assembly of PCB?</div>
<br>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<br>
<div>Mike Clemente, C.I.D.</div>
<div>Sr. PCB Design Specialist</div>
<div>dZinit Applied Technologies</div>
<div>Tel: 847-545-8170</div>
<div>Fax: 847-545-8175</div>
<div>Email: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:27:57 -0800</div>
<div>From: Karla Thompson
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: photoplotters</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<br>
<div>I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate
any</div>
<div>input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco
Crescent</div>
<div>30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of
you have any</div>
<div>comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Karla Thompson</div>
<div>CAM Technician</div>
<div>Electronic Controls Design, Inc</div>
<div>Tel: (503) 829-9108</div>
email: [log in to unmask]
</blockquote></x-html>
<html><div>Hi,</div>
<br>
<div>I will be back on 12/17/01.</div>
<br>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Jong</div>
</html>
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:57:59 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: jong s kadesch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 13 Dec 2001 to 14 Dec
2001 - Special issue (#2001-777))
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=====================_1333427==_.ALT"
--=====================_1333427==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 09:14 AM 12/14/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:14:40 -0600
>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: TechNet Digest - 13 Dec 2001 to 14 Dec 2001 - Special issue
>(#2001-777)
>To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There are 16 messages totalling 954 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics in this special issue:
>
> 1. Pull-Off strength for Surface Mount Adhesives
> 2. Solderability of Organic Silver PCB's
> 3. photoplotters
> 4. Flux Controls (6)
> 5. IPC apex show
> 6. porosity of gold plating on nickel
> 7. Homeplate apertures, how to use them
> 8. Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... (3)
> 9. IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
>
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>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:32:51 +0530
>From: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Pull-Off strength for Surface Mount Adhesives
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Hi Technetters,
>
>Can anyone tell me where to find the IPC specification for the pull-off and
>Torque strengths for Surface mount adhesives. I have the test method but not
>the specification. Of course the glue manufacturer has this specs written
>onto the data sheet, but I need to check what is the range specified by the
>IPC, whether the manufacturers range falls in the IPC range or not!
>
>Thanks in anticipation
>
>Regards
>Vinit Verma
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:16:53 -0500
>From: "Wenger, George M." <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Solderability of Organic Silver PCB's
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C18499.3744CC4C"
>
>Mike,
>My first reaction is to suggest you check to see that you really have a
>silver surface finish. XRF or Auger depth profiling can identify the
>surface finish and how thick it is. I'd also do Don's suggestion to check
>for discoloration and dullness.
>
>
>Regards,
>George
>
>George M. Wenger (908)-546-4531 [log in to unmask]
>Celiant Corporation
>40 Technology Drive
>Warren, New Jersey 07059
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Don Vischulis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:19 PM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [TN] Solderability of Organic Silver PCB's
>>
>>Mike:
>>
>>I don't believe the laminate will affect the solderability of the
>>board. The only time I've encountered solderability problems with a
>>silver finish was when a subcontractor forgot to turn the rinse water on
>>while processing boards through the silver line. Is there any
>>discoloration or dullness of the silver that might indicate contamination
>>or oxidation of the pads? Have you performed solderability testing on
>>the boards? If Dave Hillman is out there, he might want to comment on
>>the ability of SERA or other methods to evaluate the surface finish.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Don Vischulis
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>I am currently having a few problems with soldering an Organic Silver
>>finished PCB. The PCB is a Rodgers material, but I have no information
>>on the exact type. I am using Multicore X33-12i no-clean flux, but this
>>appears to have no effect on the pads. All of the joints are partial,
>>and have very poor wetting, if any!! Has anyone had similar problems to
>>this??? Any suggestions on how to fix this?? Unfortunately I can't use
>>a clean flux as I don't have the facility to clean PCB's.
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:28:28 -0500
>>From: Mark Hargreaves <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: photoplotters
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain
>>
>>Hi Karla,
>>We currently have a 3-4 year old CSI (guess it's Gretag now) plotter. We're
>>happy with the images, speed and up-time.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Mark Hargreaves
>>EMDS
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Karla Thompson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:28 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: [TN] photoplotters
>>
>> I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate
>>any
>> input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco
>>Crescent
>> 30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you
>>have any
>> comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.
>>
>>
>> Karla Thompson
>> CAM Technician
>> Electronic Controls Design, Inc
>> Tel: (503) 829-9108
>> email: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
>>1.8d
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>>text in
>> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>> Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources &
>>Databases > E-mail Archives
>> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>>additional
>> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
>>847-509-9700 ext.5315
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:04:54 -0500
>>From: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Flux Controls
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>Hello Technetters
>>
>>I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand
>>soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am
>>concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the right
>>flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>Phil Belliveau
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:32:19 -0500
>>From: Gerard O'Brien <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: IPC apex show
>>
>>sorry if this subject is slightly off line from the original concept of
>>TechNet - However due to continuing travel restrictions within my company
>>and based on the dismal attendance at the Fall show in Orlando, I am trying
>>to determine whether to go to APEX or Expo later on next spring. Before
>>anyone comes back with "these events are for the two sides of our industry
>>and therefore should be treated as two separate events (assembly and fab),
>>my reason for going pertains to technical committees which meet at both.
>>So, what is the general consensus out there for attendance for APEX or is
>>everyone still on travel restrictions?
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Gerard O'Brien
>>Photocircuits
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:47:02 -0000
>>From: Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: porosity of gold plating on nickel
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>Kris,
>>There is an old British Standard test for measuring porosity of gold on
>>nickel.
>>It was designed for electroplated gold thicknesses of 2 microns (0.0001
>>inches) on electroplated nickel edge connectors so I don't know if it's
>>relevant to you. If you're interested I'll have a look this weekend to see
>>if I still have it in the junk pile.
>>
>>As far as I can remember the test consisted of soaking a piece of blotting
>>paper in dimethylglyoxime solution placing this over the connectors, passing
>>a current for a set time and inspecting the paper. Dimethylglyoxime turns
>>red in the presence of nickel so any pores in the gold will allow nickel
>>ions to pass through and stain the test paper.
>>hope this helps
>>Geoff Layhe
>>www.lamar-uk.co.uk
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Kris Keating [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: 13 December 2001 19:31
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: [TN] porosity of gold plating on nickel
>>
>>
>>Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of determining porosity of gold
>>plating over nickel on a PCB?
>>
>>
>>Kristopher J. Keating
>>Technical Service Engineer
>>Circuit-Wise, Inc.
>>400 Sackett Point Rd.
>>North Haven, CT 06473
>>Tel. (203) 281-6511
>>Fax (203) 287-8409
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>>Technet NOMAIL
>>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>>E-mail Archives
>>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>>ext.5315
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>>
>>
>>Private & Confidential:
>>This e-mail message is confidential and is intended solely for the person or
>>organisation to whom it is addressed. If the message is received by anyone
>>other than the addressee please return the message to the sender by replying
>>to it and then delete the message from your computer.
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:07:21 -0600
>>From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Flux Controls
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_E3BEC8AA.5C3D5070"
>>
>>I would have the flux bottles labeled clearly and then in the process
>>instructions have the operators remove all opposing fluxes and only have
>>available the correct flux. The when the work is actually flowing through
>>walk around and confirm that the operators are following the instructions
>>and document the random audit. Communicate, communicate, communicate.....
>>
>>Kathy
>>
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:05:10 +0100
>>From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>
>>Dear Technetters,
>>
>>For our stencils I have recently introduced the homeplate design for the
>>apertures of chipcomponents larger than 1206.
>>But now a problem occurs with the guys who have to order the stencils: it
>>takes a lot of time, by using Gerber data, partslist and assembly drawing
>>to figure out which components are 1206, 1210, 1812. For a coil or
>>tantalumcaps with such a footprint I don't want a homeplate aperture
>>because these parts need a little more solder.
>>So we end up with a nice specification, but very unpractical for the
>>production engineers.
>>
>>How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions on how to make
>>an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about easier ways to order a
>>stencil according to my spec ?
>>Should I keep it simple and say "use homeplate-apertures for all
>>footprints larger than 1.5 * 1.5 mm ?"
>>
>>Daan Terstegge
>>SMT Centre
>>Thales Communications
>>Unclassified mail
>>Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:22:21 -0600
>>From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Flux Controls
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>You may want to colour-code as well. Any fluxes used in that process are
>>labelled yellow, and fluxes for different processes are red or something,
>>then when they follow Kathy's instruction to remove opposing material they
>>should be left with all yellow, or all red bottles. That way you can tell
>>at a glance whether they have the right materials on their bench.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Kathy Kuhlow [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: December 14, 2001 8:07 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [TN] Flux Controls
>>
>>
>>I would have the flux bottles labeled clearly and then in the process
>>instructions have the operators remove all opposing fluxes and only have
>>available the correct flux. The when the work is actually flowing through
>>walk around and confirm that the operators are following the instructions
>>and document the random audit. Communicate, communicate, communicate.....
>>
>>Kathy
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:24:20 -0500
>>From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Flux Controls
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>Hi Phil,
>>
>>We solved this problem by color coding the flux bottles and placing a
>>colored sticker on the work control document. Without it folks were using
>>whatever was in-front of them. Extra instructions alone didn't work.
>>
>>Hans
>>
>>Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Hans M. Hinners
>>Electronics Engineer
>>Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
>>226 Cochran Street
>>Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
>>
>>mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>
>>Com: (478) 926 - 5224
>>Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
>>DSN Prefix: 468
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [log in to unmask]
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:05 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: [TN] Flux Controls
>>
>>
>>Hello Technetters
>>
>>I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand
>>soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am
>>concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the right
>>flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>Phil Belliveau
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>>Technet NOMAIL
>>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>>E-mail Archives
>>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>>ext.5315
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:26:13 EST
>>From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>boundary="part1_10d.a4e5489.294b6605_boundary"
>>
>>Hi All!!
>>
>>...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance! hehehe)
>>
>>I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I could
>>find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class A-2,
>>with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...
>>
>>This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's
>>using this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are
>>installed on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about
>>polysulfide compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under
>>MIL-S-8802, I find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks,
>>but still nothing alumina filled...
>>
>>Any help will be much appreciated
>>
>>-Steve Gregory-
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:17:48 -0600
>>From: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Flux Controls
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand
>>soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am
>>concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the right
>>flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.
>>
>>**Phil,
>>What do you mean by Type QA? What manufacturer and formulation number
>>(e.g. Kester 951)?
>>Doug
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:38:04 -0600
>>From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_87DAACC7.45244969"
>>
>>don't know anything about the topic but I'll Friday dance with
>>ya...tappity, tappity
>>
>>Kathy
>>
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:51:23 -0500
>>From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Flux Controls
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>Phil,
>>
>>Hans and Genny have mentioned some great ideas. The only thing I see
>>missing is consideration for the solder used. Are you using a flux
>>cored solder or solid solder? If there is a flux core in the solder you
>>will want to use the same identification system on the solder that you
>>use on your flux.
>>
>>We have already been burned by this problem.
>>
>>Phil Nutting
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [log in to unmask]
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:05 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: [TN] Flux Controls
>>
>>
>>Hello Technetters
>>
>>I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand
>>soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am
>>concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the
>>right
>>flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>Phil Belliveau
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>---------
>>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text
>>in
>>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>>Technet NOMAIL
>>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases
>> > E-mail Archives
>>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>>additional
>>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>>ext.5315
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>---------
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:57:25 -0500
>>From: Francois Monette <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>In reviewing the IPC-1720 I noticed that the material handling section does
>>cover ESD policies and procedures but there is no mention of MSD control
>>(Moisture Sensitive Devices). Since MSD control is just as important as ESD
>>to insure the reliability of the finished product you might want to include
>>this in your requirements. If you are interested I can send you a MSD Audit
>>checklist that is based on the latest IPC/JEDEC J-STD-033 : Standard for
>>Handling, Packing, Shipping and Use of Moisture/Reflow Sensitive Surface
>>Mount Devices, May 1999. The Audit checklist is a free download from the MSD
>>knowledge base on our web site : www.cogiscan.com, click on Moisture
>>Sensitive Devices.
>>
>>Francois Monette
>>Cogiscan Inc.
>>50 De Gaspe, Suite A5
>>Bromont, Quebec, Canada, J2L 2N8
>>Tel : (450)534-2644
>>Fax: (450)534-0092
>>www.cogiscan.com
>> -----------------------------
>>
>>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:09:14 EST
>>From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
>>
>>--part1_d0.1f702b33.29492f8a_boundary
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>Hi Jana,
>>
>>Go to www.ipc.org, then click on Online Resources and Databases, then scroll
>>all the way down to IPC Documents Available for Download and click on that.
>>
>>You will find:
>>
>>IPC-1710 OEM
>>Standard for Printed Board Manufacturers' Qualification Profile
>>
>>Developed by the OEM council of the IPC, the MQP sets the standard for
>>assessing PWB manufacturers capabilities and allows PWB manufacturers to
>>more
>>easily satisfy customer requirements.
>>
>>IPC-1720
>>Assembly Qualification Profile Developed by the OEM council of the IPC,
>>IPC-1720 categorized an electronic assembly manufacturer's capabilities and
>>supplies the OEM customer with detailed, substantive information.
>>
>>IPC-1730A
>>Laminator Qualifier Profile
>>Are you a laminate manufacturer looking to provide your customers with a
>>consistent, detailed report on your facility(s)? IPC-1730A is the one tool
>>laminate manufacturers can use to provide current and potential customers
>>with a profile of their facilities. By completing this questionnaire,
>>laminators can provide information on materials supplied, approvals and
>>certifications, testing available, equipment capabilities and more!
>>
>>IPC-1731
>>Strategic Raw Materials Supplier Qualification Profile (SRMSQP)
>>Suppliers of raw materials to laminate manufacture now have an industry
>>approved questionaire to supply current and potential customers with a self
>>assessment of their facility(s). IPC-1731 gives suppliers of raw materials
>>the opportunity to create a profile of their manufacturing facility(s) that
>>will be consistent with those developed by similar suppliers. Using the MS
>>Word template enables easy creation and maintenance of the file(s) and
>>provide their customers with an electronic file for their records.
>>
>>-Steve Gregory-
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------
>>
>>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:10:29 -0800
>>From: "Jana L. Carraway" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
>>
>>Greetings All,
>>
>>I have in the back of my mind, a dusty place indeed, that IPC had a document
>>containing Supplier Audit guidelines. I have surfed the IPC site and do not
>>find such a document in the Technical Publications pdf. Does IPC have
>>something like this, or ... I'm losing it!
>>Thanks for the help,
>>Jana Carraway
>>Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:15:15 -0000
>>From: Mike Fenner <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004C_01C184B2.22B64420"
>>
>>Don't know directly but can offer the following as pointers in a search
>>which might help.
>>Alumina filled "polysulphide", sounds like a thermal management compound
>>or a high (for polymer) temp withstand product
>>So I would go to the people that make thermally conductive adhesives and
>>thermal management compounds,
>>Coutaulds were big on polysulphides [like Dow on silicones]. Don't know
>>if Courtaulds are still Courtaulds, but a quick google on
>>polysulphide Courtaulds and thermal didn't produce, but maybe I should
>>have used an f in sulphide.
>>
>>Best regards
>>
>>Mike Fenner
>>Applications Engineer, European Operations
>>Indium Corporation
>> T: + 44 1908 580 400
>>M: + 44 7810 526 317
>> F: + 44 1908 580 411
>> E: [log in to unmask]
>>W: www.indium.com
>>Leadfree: <http://pb-free.com/>http://Pb-Free.com
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stephen R. Gregory
>>Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 2:26 PM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>>
>>Hi All!!
>>
>>...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance! hehehe)
>>
>>I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I could
>>find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class A-2,
>>with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...
>>
>>This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's
>>using this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are
>>installed on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about
>>polysulfide compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under
>>MIL-S-8802, I find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks,
>>but still nothing alumina filled...
>>
>>Any help will be much appreciated
>>
>>-Steve Gregory-
>Hi,
>
>I will be back on 12/17/01.
>
>Regards,
>Jong
--=====================_1333427==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<html>
At 09:14 AM 12/14/01 -0600, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001
09:14:40 -0600<br>
Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
From: Automatic digest processor
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: TechNet Digest - 13 Dec 2001 to 14 Dec 2001 - Special
issue (#2001-777)<br>
To: Recipients of TechNet digests
<[log in to unmask]><br>
<br>
There are 16 messages totalling 954 lines in this issue.<br>
<br>
Topics in this special issue:<br>
<br>
1. Pull-Off strength for Surface Mount Adhesives<br>
2. Solderability of Organic Silver PCB's<br>
3. photoplotters<br>
4. Flux Controls (6)<br>
5. IPC apex show<br>
6. porosity of gold plating on nickel<br>
7. Homeplate apertures, how to use them<br>
8. Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... (3)<br>
9. IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines<br>
<br>
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in<br>
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ext.5315<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:32:51 +0530<br>
From: Vinit Verma
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Pull-Off strength for Surface Mount Adhesives<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Hi Technetters,<br>
<br>
Can anyone tell me where to find the IPC specification for the pull-off
and<br>
Torque strengths for Surface mount adhesives. I have the test method but
not<br>
the specification. Of course the glue manufacturer has this specs
written<br>
onto the data sheet, but I need to check what is the range specified by
the<br>
IPC, whether the manufacturers range falls in the IPC range or not!<br>
<br>
Thanks in anticipation<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Vinit Verma<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:16:53 -0500<br>
From: "Wenger, George M."
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Solderability of Organic Silver PCB's<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C18499.3744CC4C"<br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">Mike,</font><br>
My first reaction is to suggest you check to see that you really have a
silver surface finish. XRF or Auger depth profiling can identify
the surface finish and how thick it is. I'd also do Don's
suggestion to check for discoloration and dullness.<br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2>Regards,</font> <br>
<font size=6 color="#800000">George</font> <br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2>George M. Wenger (908)-546-4531
[log in to unmask]</font> <br>
<font face="arial" size=2>Celiant Corporation</font> <br>
<font face="arial" size=2>40 Technology Drive</font> <br>
<font face="arial" size=2>Warren, New Jersey 07059</font>
<blockquote><font face="tahoma" size=2>
<dl>
<dd>-----Original Message-----
<dd>From:</b> Don Vischulis [<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]
<dd>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:19 PM
<dd>To:</b> [log in to unmask]
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [TN] Solderability of Organic Silver PCB's<br>
<br>
</font><font face="arial" size=2>
<dd>Mike:</font>
<dd> <font face="arial" size=2>
<dd>I don't believe the laminate will affect the solderability of the board. The only time I've encountered solderability problems with a silver finish was when a subcontractor forgot to turn the rinse water on while processing boards through the silver line. Is there any discoloration or dullness of the silver that might indicate contamination or oxidation of the pads? Have you performed solderability testing on the boards? If Dave Hillman is out there, he might want to comment on the ability of SERA or other methods to evaluate the surface finish.</font>
<dd> <font face="arial" size=2>
<dd>Regards,</font>
<dd>Don Vischulis
<dd> <font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
<dd> Hi all,</font>
<dd> <font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
<dd>I am currently having a few problems with soldering an Organic Silver finished PCB. The PCB is a Rodgers material, but I have no information on the exact type. I am using Multicore X33-12i no-clean flux, but this appears to have no effect on the pads. All of the joints are partial, and have very poor wetting, if any!! Has anyone had similar problems to this??? Any suggestions on how to fix this?? Unfortunately I can't use a clean flux as I don't have the facility to clean PCB's.</font>
<dd> <font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
<dd>Cheers</font>
<dd> <font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">
<dd>Mike</font><br>
<br>
</dl>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:28:28 -0500<br>
From: Mark Hargreaves <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: photoplotters<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain<br>
<br>
Hi Karla,<br>
We currently have a 3-4 year old CSI (guess it's Gretag now) plotter. We're<br>
happy with the images, speed and up-time.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Mark Hargreaves<br>
EMDS<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Karla Thompson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]<br>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:28 PM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: [TN] photoplotters<br>
<br>
I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate<br>
any<br>
input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco<br>
Crescent<br>
30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you<br>
have any<br>
comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.<br>
<br>
<br>
Karla Thompson<br>
CAM Technician<br>
Electronic Controls Design, Inc<br>
Tel: (503) 829-9108<br>
email: [log in to unmask]<br>
<br>
<br>
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:04:54 -0500<br>
From: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: Flux Controls<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
Hello Technetters<br>
<br>
I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand<br>
soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am<br>
concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the right<br>
flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance.<br>
Phil Belliveau<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:32:19 -0500<br>
From: Gerard O'Brien <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: IPC apex show<br>
<br>
sorry if this subject is slightly off line from the original concept of<br>
TechNet - However due to continuing travel restrictions within my company<br>
and based on the dismal attendance at the Fall show in Orlando, I am trying<br>
to determine whether to go to APEX or Expo later on next spring. Before<br>
anyone comes back with "these events are for the two sides of our industry<br>
and therefore should be treated as two separate events (assembly and fab),<br>
my reason for going pertains to technical committees which meet at both.<br>
So, what is the general consensus out there for attendance for APEX or is<br>
everyone still on travel restrictions?<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Gerard O'Brien<br>
Photocircuits<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:47:02 -0000<br>
From: Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: porosity of gold plating on nickel<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Kris,<br>
There is an old British Standard test for measuring porosity of gold on<br>
nickel.<br>
It was designed for electroplated gold thicknesses of 2 microns (0.0001<br>
inches) on electroplated nickel edge connectors so I don't know if it's<br>
relevant to you. If you're interested I'll have a look this weekend to see<br>
if I still have it in the junk pile.<br>
<br>
As far as I can remember the test consisted of soaking a piece of blotting<br>
paper in dimethylglyoxime solution placing this over the connectors, passing<br>
a current for a set time and inspecting the paper. Dimethylglyoxime turns<br>
red in the presence of nickel so any pores in the gold will allow nickel<br>
ions to pass through and stain the test paper.<br>
hope this helps<br>
Geoff Layhe<br>
<a href="http://www.lamar-uk.co.uk/" eudora="autourl">www.lamar-uk.co.uk</a><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Kris Keating [<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: 13 December 2001 19:31<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: [TN] porosity of gold plating on nickel<br>
<br>
<br>
Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of determining porosity of gold<br>
plating over nickel on a PCB?<br>
<br>
<br>
Kristopher J. Keating<br>
Technical Service Engineer<br>
Circuit-Wise, Inc.<br>
400 Sackett Point Rd.<br>
North Haven, CT 06473<br>
Tel. (203) 281-6511<br>
Fax (203) 287-8409<br>
<br>
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:07:21 -0600<br>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Flux Controls<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_E3BEC8AA.5C3D5070"<br>
<br>
I would have the flux bottles labeled clearly and then in the process instructions have the operators remove all opposing fluxes and only have available the correct flux. The when the work is actually flowing through walk around and confirm that the operators are following the instructions and document the random audit. Communicate, communicate, communicate.....<br>
<br>
Kathy <br>
<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:05:10 +0100<br>
From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Homeplate apertures, how to use them<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
<br>
Dear Technetters,<br>
<br>
For our stencils I have recently introduced the homeplate design for the apertures of chipcomponents larger than 1206.<br>
But now a problem occurs with the guys who have to order the stencils: it takes a lot of time, by using Gerber data, partslist and assembly drawing to figure out which components are 1206, 1210, 1812. For a coil or tantalumcaps with such a footprint I don't want a homeplate aperture because these parts need a little more solder.<br>
So we end up with a nice specification, but very unpractical for the production engineers.<br>
<br>
How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions on how to make an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about easier ways to order a stencil according to my spec ?<br>
Should I keep it simple and say "use homeplate-apertures for all footprints larger than 1.5 * 1.5 mm ?"<br>
<br>
Daan Terstegge<br>
SMT Centre<br>
Thales Communications<br>
Unclassified mail<br>
Personal Website: <a href="http://www.smtinfo.net/" eudora="autourl">http://www.smtinfo.net</a><br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:22:21 -0600<br>
From: Genny Gibbard <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Flux Controls<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
You may want to colour-code as well. Any fluxes used in that process are<br>
labelled yellow, and fluxes for different processes are red or something,<br>
then when they follow Kathy's instruction to remove opposing material they<br>
should be left with all yellow, or all red bottles. That way you can tell<br>
at a glance whether they have the right materials on their bench.<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Kathy Kuhlow [<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: December 14, 2001 8:07 AM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: Re: [TN] Flux Controls<br>
<br>
<br>
I would have the flux bottles labeled clearly and then in the process<br>
instructions have the operators remove all opposing fluxes and only have<br>
available the correct flux. The when the work is actually flowing through<br>
walk around and confirm that the operators are following the instructions<br>
and document the random audit. Communicate, communicate, communicate.....<br>
<br>
Kathy<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:24:20 -0500<br>
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Flux Controls<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Hi Phil,<br>
<br>
We solved this problem by color coding the flux bottles and placing a<br>
colored sticker on the work control document. Without it folks were using<br>
whatever was in-front of them. Extra instructions alone didn't work.<br>
<br>
Hans<br>
<br>
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
Hans M. Hinners<br>
Electronics Engineer<br>
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)<br>
226 Cochran Street<br>
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a><br>
<br>
Com: (478) 926 - 5224<br>
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911<br>
DSN Prefix: 468<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: [log in to unmask]<br>
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:05 AM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: [TN] Flux Controls<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello Technetters<br>
<br>
I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand<br>
soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am<br>
concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the right<br>
flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance.<br>
Phil Belliveau<br>
<br>
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:26:13 EST<br>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_10d.a4e5489.294b6605_boundary"<br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2>Hi All!! <br>
<br>
...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance! hehehe) <br>
<br>
I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I could find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class A-2, with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder... <br>
<br>
This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's using this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are installed on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about polysulfide compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under MIL-S-8802, I find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but still nothing alumina filled... <br>
<br>
Any help will be much appreciated <br>
<br>
-Steve Gregory- <br>
</font><font face="arial">Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:17:48 -0600<br>
From: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: Re: Flux Controls<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand<br>
soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am<br>
concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the right<br>
flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.<br>
<br>
**Phil,<br>
What do you mean by Type QA? What manufacturer and formulation number<br>
(e.g. Kester 951)?<br>
Doug<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:38:04 -0600<br>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_87DAACC7.45244969"<br>
<br>
don't know anything about the topic but I'll Friday dance with ya...tappity, tappity<br>
<br>
Kathy <br>
<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:51:23 -0500<br>
From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Flux Controls<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Phil,<br>
<br>
Hans and Genny have mentioned some great ideas. The only thing I see<br>
missing is consideration for the solder used. Are you using a flux<br>
cored solder or solid solder? If there is a flux core in the solder you<br>
will want to use the same identification system on the solder that you<br>
use on your flux.<br>
<br>
We have already been burned by this problem.<br>
<br>
Phil Nutting<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: [log in to unmask]<br>
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 8:05 AM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: [TN] Flux Controls<br>
<br>
<br>
Hello Technetters<br>
<br>
I need help. Currently I have only RMA fluxes in wave soldering and hand<br>
soldering. We are planning to use type QA for a new customer. I am<br>
concerned about what kind of controls I should have in place so the<br>
right<br>
flux is used only on the assemblies that it is intended.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance.<br>
Phil Belliveau<br>
<br>
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---------<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:57:25 -0500<br>
From: Francois Monette <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<br>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<br>
<br>
In reviewing the IPC-1720 I noticed that the material handling section does<br>
cover ESD policies and procedures but there is no mention of MSD control<br>
(Moisture Sensitive Devices). Since MSD control is just as important as ESD<br>
to insure the reliability of the finished product you might want to include<br>
this in your requirements. If you are interested I can send you a MSD Audit<br>
checklist that is based on the latest IPC/JEDEC J-STD-033 : Standard for<br>
Handling, Packing, Shipping and Use of Moisture/Reflow Sensitive Surface<br>
Mount Devices, May 1999. The Audit checklist is a free download from the MSD<br>
knowledge base on our web site : <a href="http://www.cogiscan.com/" eudora="autourl">www.cogiscan.com</a>, click on Moisture<br>
Sensitive Devices.<br>
<br>
Francois Monette<br>
Cogiscan Inc.<br>
50 De Gaspe, Suite A5<br>
Bromont, Quebec, Canada, J2L 2N8<br>
Tel : (450)534-2644<br>
Fax: (450)534-0092<br>
<a href="http://www.cogiscan.com/" eudora="autourl">www.cogiscan.com</a><br>
-----------------------------<br>
<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 17:09:14 EST<br>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines<br>
<br>
--part1_d0.1f702b33.29492f8a_boundary<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"<br>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<br>
<br>
Hi Jana,<br>
<br>
Go to <a href="http://www.ipc.org/" eudora="autourl">www.ipc.org</a>, then click on Online Resources and Databases, then scroll<br>
all the way down to IPC Documents Available for Download and click on that.<br>
<br>
You will find:<br>
<br>
IPC-1710 OEM<br>
Standard for Printed Board Manufacturers' Qualification Profile<br>
<br>
Developed by the OEM council of the IPC, the MQP sets the standard for<br>
assessing PWB manufacturers capabilities and allows PWB manufacturers to<br>
more<br>
easily satisfy customer requirements.<br>
<br>
IPC-1720<br>
Assembly Qualification Profile Developed by the OEM council of the IPC,<br>
IPC-1720 categorized an electronic assembly manufacturer's capabilities and<br>
supplies the OEM customer with detailed, substantive information.<br>
<br>
IPC-1730A<br>
Laminator Qualifier Profile<br>
Are you a laminate manufacturer looking to provide your customers with a<br>
consistent, detailed report on your facility(s)? IPC-1730A is the one tool<br>
laminate manufacturers can use to provide current and potential customers<br>
with a profile of their facilities. By completing this questionnaire,<br>
laminators can provide information on materials supplied, approvals and<br>
certifications, testing available, equipment capabilities and more!<br>
<br>
IPC-1731<br>
Strategic Raw Materials Supplier Qualification Profile (SRMSQP)<br>
Suppliers of raw materials to laminate manufacture now have an industry<br>
approved questionaire to supply current and potential customers with a self<br>
assessment of their facility(s). IPC-1731 gives suppliers of raw materials<br>
the opportunity to create a profile of their manufacturing facility(s) that<br>
will be consistent with those developed by similar suppliers. Using the MS<br>
Word template enables easy creation and maintenance of the file(s) and<br>
provide their customers with an electronic file for their records.<br>
<br>
-Steve Gregory-<br>
<br>
<br>
-----------------------------<br>
<br>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:10:29 -0800<br>
From: "Jana L. Carraway" <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines<br>
<br>
Greetings All,<br>
<br>
I have in the back of my mind, a dusty place indeed, that IPC had a document<br>
containing Supplier Audit guidelines. I have surfed the IPC site and do not<br>
find such a document in the Technical Publications pdf. Does IPC have<br>
something like this, or ... I'm losing it!<br>
Thanks for the help,<br>
Jana Carraway<br>
Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:15:15 -0000<br>
From: Mike Fenner <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004C_01C184B2.22B64420"<br>
<br>
</font><font face="arial" color="#0000FF">Don't know directly but can offer the following as pointers in a search which might help.</font><br>
Alumina filled "polysulphide", sounds like a thermal management compound or a high (for polymer) temp withstand product<br>
So I would go to the people that make thermally conductive adhesives and thermal management compounds, <br>
Coutaulds were big on polysulphides [like Dow on silicones]. Don't know if Courtaulds are still Courtaulds, but a quick google on polysulphide Courtaulds and thermal didn't produce, but maybe I should have used an f in sulphide.<br>
<br>
Best regards <br>
<br>
<font face="arial" color="#0000FF">Mike Fenner</font> <br>
<font face="arial" color="#0000FF">Applications Engineer, European Operations</font> <br>
<font face="arial" color="#0000FF">Indium Corporation</font></b> <br>
<font face="arial" color="#0000FF"> T: + 44 1908 580 400</font> <br>
<font face="arial" color="#0000FF">M: + 44 7810 526 317</font> <br>
<font face="arial" color="#0000FF"> F: + 44 1908 580 411</font> <br>
<font face="arial" color="#0000FF"> E: [log in to unmask]</font> <br>
<font face="arial" color="#0000FF">W: <a href="http://www.indium.com/" eudora="autourl">www.indium.com</a><br>
Leadfree: <a href="http://pb-free.com/">http://Pb-Free.com</a></u> </font><font face="tahoma" size=2>
<dl>
<dd>-----Original Message-----
<dd>From:</b> TechNet [<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]]</a><a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">On</a> Behalf Of </b>Stephen R. Gregory
<dd>Sent:</b> Friday, December 14, 2001 2:26 PM
<dd>To:</b> [log in to unmask]
<dd>Subject:</b> [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<br>
<br>
</font><font face="arial" size=2>
<dd>Hi All!! <br>
<br>
<dd>...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance! hehehe) <br>
<br>
<dd>I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I could find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class A-2, with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder... <br>
<br>
<dd>This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's using this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are installed on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about polysulfide compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under MIL-S-8802, I find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but still nothing alumina filled... <br>
<br>
<dd>Any help will be much appreciated <br>
<br>
<dd>-Steve Gregory- </font></blockquote>
</dl>Hi,<br>
<br>
I will be back on 12/17/01.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Jong<br>
</html>
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:58:02 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: jong s kadesch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 14 Dec 2001 - Special
issue (#2001-778))
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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At 02:57 PM 12/14/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:57:26 -0600
>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: TechNet Digest - 14 Dec 2001 - Special issue (#2001-778)
>To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There are 12 messages totalling 927 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics in this special issue:
>
> 1. IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
> 2. Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... (4)
> 3. EPA TRI reporting of lead usage
> 4. photoplotters (2)
> 5. Homeplate apertures, how to use them (3)
> 6. Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... What Did Charles Say?
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:33:41 -0700
>From: Rick Howieson <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C184B4.B57E7D70"
>
>1710 is more of a supplier profile and not an audit guideline. It will
>give you an idea of what a board shop can accomplish compared to your
>design but does not get into how a fabricator controls their process.
>Rick
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Stephen R. Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:09 PM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [TN] IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
>>
>>Hi Jana,
>>
>>Go to www.ipc.org, then click on Online Resources and Databases, then
>>scroll all the way down to IPC Documents Available for Download and click
>>on that.
>>
>>You will find:
>>
>>IPC-1710 OEM
>>Standard for Printed Board Manufacturers' Qualification Profile
>>
>>Developed by the OEM council of the IPC, the MQP sets the standard for
>>assessing PWB manufacturers capabilities and allows PWB manufacturers to
>>more easily satisfy customer requirements.
>>
>>IPC-1720
>>Assembly Qualification Profile Developed by the OEM council of the IPC,
>>IPC-1720 categorized an electronic assembly manufacturer's capabilities
>>and supplies the OEM customer with detailed, substantive information.
>>
>>IPC-1730A
>>Laminator Qualifier Profile
>>Are you a laminate manufacturer looking to provide your customers with a
>>consistent, detailed report on your facility(s)? IPC-1730A is the one
>>tool laminate manufacturers can use to provide current and potential
>>customers with a profile of their facilities. By completing this
>>questionnaire, laminators can provide information on materials supplied,
>>approvals and certifications, testing available, equipment capabilities
>>and more!
>>
>>IPC-1731
>>Strategic Raw Materials Supplier Qualification Profile (SRMSQP)
>>Suppliers of raw materials to laminate manufacture now have an industry
>>approved questionaire to supply current and potential customers with a
>>self assessment of their facility(s). IPC-1731 gives suppliers of raw
>>materials the opportunity to create a profile of their manufacturing
>>facility(s) that will be consistent with those developed by similar
>>suppliers. Using the MS Word template enables easy creation and
>>maintenance of the file(s) and provide their customers with an electronic
>>file for their records.
>>
>>-Steve Gregory-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Greetings All,
>>>
>>>I have in the back of my mind, a dusty place indeed, that IPC had a
>>>document
>>>containing Supplier Audit guidelines. I have surfed the IPC site and do
>>>not
>>>find such a document in the Technical Publications pdf. Does IPC have
>>>something like this, or ... I'm losing it!
>>>Thanks for the help,
>>>Jana Carraway
>>>Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:27:33 -0800
>>From: "Barmuta, Mike" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>Steve:
>>Take a look at MIL-S-8516 Sealing Compound, Polysulfide Rubber, Electrical
>>Connectors and Electrical Systems, Chemically Cured. I think this is more in
>>line with what you are doing than 8802.
>>Polysulfde compounds have been around a long time, however for electrical
>>applications I think most have been replaced by urethanes and silicones.
>>
>>
>>
>>Good Luck !
>>
>>Michael Barmuta
>>
>>Staff Engineer
>>
>>Fluke Corp.
>>
>>Everett WA
>>
>>425-446-6076
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Stephen R. Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:26 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>>
>>
>>Hi All!!
>>
>>....tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance! hehehe)
>>
>>
>>I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I could find
>>some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class A-2, with 50
>>plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...
>>
>>This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's using
>>this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are installed
>>on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about polysulfide
>>compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under MIL-S-8802, I find
>>all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but still nothing
>>alumina filled...
>>
>>Any help will be much appreciated
>>
>>-Steve Gregory-
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:30:16 -0500
>>From: Gregg Klawson <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
>>
>>Hi Steve,
>>
>>You can always buy the alumina powder and polysulfide compound separately
>>and mix 'em together. I've seen this done successfully with various
>>adhesive materials, not sure if we ever did it with a polysulfide though.
>>
>>Good luck,
>>Gregg
>>
>>At 09:26 AM 12/14/01, Stephen R. Gregory wrote:
>>>Hi All!!
>>>
>>>...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance! hehehe)
>>>
>>>I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I could
>>>find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class A-2,
>>>with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...
>>>
>>>This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's using
>>>this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are installed
>>>on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about polysulfide
>>>compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under MIL-S-8802, I
>>>find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but still
>>>nothing alumina filled...
>>>
>>>Any help will be much appreciated
>>>
>>>-Steve Gregory-
>>
>>
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:56:31 -0500
>>From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: EPA TRI reporting of lead usage
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>This topic (lead usage and disposal reporting) got bounced around
>>several months ago. I know the IPC has spoken to the go'ment about the
>>ramifications this ruling brings and it is my understanding that the
>>feds turned a deaf ear to them. So, to that end, has anyone attempted
>>to figure out what we (as small OEMs building electronic devices that
>>include circuit boards) are supposed to submit to the feds in the way of
>>reporting? I've attempted to wade through the EPA documents and wish
>>there was a "Cliff Notes" version so I can figure out what we are
>>supposed to do without having to hire an expensive consultant.
>>
>>Have I just opened a can of worms?
>>
>>Phil Nutting
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:58:18 -0800
>>From: Karla Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: photoplotters
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>Thanks for the replies.
>> Anyone have an EIE plotter? Specifically the RP200 line?
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mark Hargreaves [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 04:28
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: photoplotters
>>
>>
>>Hi Karla,
>>We currently have a 3-4 year old CSI (guess it's Gretag now) plotter. We're
>>happy with the images, speed and up-time.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Mark Hargreaves
>>EMDS
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Karla Thompson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:28 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: [TN] photoplotters
>>
>> I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate
>>any
>> input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco
>>Crescent
>> 30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you
>>have any
>> comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.
>>
>>
>> Karla Thompson
>> CAM Technician
>> Electronic Controls Design, Inc
>> Tel: (503) 829-9108
>> email: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
>>1.8d
>> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
>>text in
>> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>>SET Technet NOMAIL
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>>Databases > E-mail Archives
>> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>>additional
>> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
>>847-509-9700 ext.5315
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>>E-mail Archives
>>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
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>>ext.5315
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:45:47 -0500
>>From: Brock Hunter <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: photoplotters
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>Karla,
>>
>>We have an EIE RP-508 and have only been down once in the past 14 months.
>>Overall we are quite
>>pleased with it. Initially it was intended to supplement our CSI FIRE
>>9300 and quickly took
>>over all the work, typically 130 - 150 plots ( 24 X 30 ) per day.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Brock
>>
>>Karla Thompson wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks for the replies.
>> > Anyone have an EIE plotter? Specifically the RP200 line?
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Mark Hargreaves [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 04:28
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Subject: Re: photoplotters
>> >
>> > Hi Karla,
>> > We currently have a 3-4 year old CSI (guess it's Gretag now) plotter.
>> We're
>> > happy with the images, speed and up-time.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Mark Hargreaves
>> > EMDS
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Karla Thompson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:28 PM
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Subject: [TN] photoplotters
>> >
>> > I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and would
>> appreciate
>> > any
>> > input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco
>> > Crescent
>> > 30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you
>> > have any
>> > comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.
>> >
>> > Karla Thompson
>> > CAM Technician
>> > Electronic Controls Design, Inc
>> > Tel: (503) 829-9108
>> > email: [log in to unmask]
>> >
>> >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > -----
>> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
>> > 1.8d
>> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
>> > text in
>> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
>> message:
>> > SET Technet NOMAIL
>> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources &
>> > Databases > E-mail Archives
>> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>> > additional
>> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
>> > 847-509-9700 ext.5315
>> >
>> >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > -----
>> >
>> >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > -----
>> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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>> > E-mail Archives
>> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>> additional
>> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>> > ext.5315
>> >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > -----
>> >
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------
>> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:
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>> Databases > E-mail Archives
>> > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
>> additional
>> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
>> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------
>>
>>--
>>Brock Hunter [log in to unmask]
>>Engineering Mgr.
>>Dynamic & Proto Circuits
>>TEL (905) 643-9900
>>FAX (905) 643-9437
>>http://www.dapc.com
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:56:32 -0500
>>From: Jeff Seeger <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>
>>"d. terstegge" wrote:
>> >
>> > snip <
>> > How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions on how to
>> make an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about easier ways to
>> order a stencil according to my spec ?
>>
>>
>> Wouldn't this be handled best in design? That way it can
>> be a part of the footprint and happen "by itself".
>>
>> Most of the dense boards I've seen lately are very difficult
>> to determine which pads relate to each other with any degree
>> of certainty. Silkscreens are so compromised as to not be
>> reliable indicators.
>>
>> Just a thought,
>>--
>>
>> Jeff Seeger Applied CAD Knowledge Inc
>> Chief Technical Officer Tyngsboro, MA 01879
>> jseeger "at" appliedcad "dot" com 978 649 9800
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:17:25 -0600
>>From: Charles Caswell <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same
>>stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find the
>>stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS fuel
>>tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts of
>>AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the same
>>customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some info, if
>>not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.
>>Charles Caswell
>>Process Lead, PCB
>>Frontier Electronic Systems
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stephen R. Gregory
>> Sent: Fri 12/14/2001 8:26 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Cc:
>> Subject: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>>
>>
>> Hi All!!
>>
>> ...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday
>>dance! hehehe)
>>
>> I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I
>>could find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802,
>>class A-2, with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...
>>
>> This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board
>>that's using this material to strain relief two small battery cables
>>that are installed on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of
>>stuff about polysulfide compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I
>>search under MIL-S-8802, I find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet
>>fuel tanks, but still nothing alumina filled...
>>
>> Any help will be much appreciated
>>
>> -Steve Gregory-
>>
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:38:40 EST
>>From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>boundary="part1_16b.5ac614f.294baf40_boundary"
>>
>>Hi Charles,
>>
>>Sorry, but I didn't understand a word you said...
>>
>>-Steve Gregory-
>>
>>In a message dated 12/14/01 1:17:12 PM Central Standard Time,
>>[log in to unmask] writes:
>>
>>
>>>U3RldmUsIEkgYW0gYXQgaG9tZSBzbyBJIGRvbid0IGhhdmUgdGhlIGluZm8gaGVyZSAuIFdlI
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>>>DQpkYW5jZSEgaGVoZWhlKSANCgkNCglJIHdhcyB3b25kZXJpbmcgaWYgc29tZW9uZSBjb3VsZ
>>>CBw
>>>b2ludCBtZSBpbiBhIGRpcmVjdGlvbiB3aGVyZSBJDQpjb3VsZCBmaW5kIHNvbWUgYWx1bWluY
>>>SBm
>>>aWxsZWQgcG9seXN1bGZpZGUgY29tcG91bmQsIHBlciBNSUwtUy04ODAyLA0KY2xhc3MgQS0yL
>>>CB3
>>>aXRoIDUwIHBsdXMgb3IgbWludXMgMTAlLCAzMjUgbWVzaCBhbHVtaW51bSBveGlkZSBwb3dkZ
>>>XIu
>>>Li4gDQoJDQoJVGhpcyBpcyBzb21ldGhpbmcgdGhhdCBpcyBjYWxsZWQgb3V0IG9uIGEgZHJhd
>>>2lu
>>>ZyBmb3IgYSBib2FyZA0KdGhhdCdzIHVzaW5nIHRoaXMgbWF0ZXJpYWwgdG8gc3RyYWluIHJlb
>>>Gll
>>>ZiB0d28gc21hbGwgYmF0dGVyeSBjYWJsZXMNCnRoYXQgYXJlIGluc3RhbGxlZCBvbiB0aGUgY
>>>m9h
>>>cmQuLi5JJ3ZlIHNlYXJjaGVkIGFuZCBmaW5kIGEgYnVuY2ggb2YNCnN0dWZmIGFib3V0IHBvb
>>>Hlz
>>>dWxmaWRlIGNvbXBvdW5kcywgYnV0IG5vdGhpbmcgYWx1bWluYSBmaWxsZWQuIElmIEkNCnNlY
>>>XJj
>>>aCB1bmRlciBNSUwtUy04ODAyLCBJIGZpbmQgYWxsIGtpbmRzIG9mIHBvbHlzdWxmaWRlIHNlY
>>>Wxl
>>>cnMgZm9yIGpldA0KZnVlbCB0YW5rcywgYnV0IHN0aWxsIG5vdGhpbmcgYWx1bWluYSBmaWxsZ
>>>WQu
>>>Li4gDQoJDQoJQW55IGhlbHAgd2lsbCBiZSBtdWNoIGFwcHJlY2lhdGVkIA0KCQ0KCS1TdGV2Z
>>>SBH
>>>cmVnb3J5LSANCgkNCg0K
>>
>>
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:24:28 +0100
>>From: "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0068_01C184E5.B6848580"
>>
>>I agree, but for subcontracting that's a situation that I can only dream
>>of. The reality is that you get Gerber data (one to one with the pads)
>>that you need to edit yourself, or you need to make clear instructions
>>for the company that makes the stencils so they can do the Gerber-editing.
>>
>>Daan Terstegge
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>Jeff Seeger
>>To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]
>>Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:56 PM
>>Subject: Re: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to use them
>>
>>"d. terstegge" wrote:
>> >
>> > snip <
>> > How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions on how to
>> make an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about easier ways to
>> order a stencil according to my spec ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Wouldn't this be handled best in design? That way it can
>> be a part of the footprint and happen "by itself".
>>
>> Most of the dense boards I've seen lately are very difficult
>> to determine which pads relate to each other with any degree
>> of certainty. Silkscreens are so compromised as to not be
>> reliable indicators.
>>
>> Just a thought,
>>--
>>
>> Jeff Seeger Applied CAD Knowledge Inc
>> Chief Technical Officer Tyngsboro, MA 01879
>> jseeger "at" appliedcad "dot" com 978 649 9800
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>for additional
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>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-------
>>
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:46:45 -0600
>>From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
>>
>>Some things you can do include editing Gerber (dumb xy data) or ODB++
>>(intellegent) data using a CAM package as Valor. This package, as an
>>example, provides clearly identifiable graphic information concerning pads,
>>with special features, and their locations. All this is provided you have
>>built in design rules as ERF's (external reference files).
>>
>>Also, if the stencil maker is using a similar package it may easily
>>translate requirements into an AOI system. If so, AOI is an answer I've used
>>many times, when applicable. Don't know why this isn't done more. Asked this
>>group some time back but no responses.
>>
>>MoonMan
>>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:04:03 EST
>>From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... What Did Charles Say?
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>boundary="part1_147.65a01ae.294bc343_boundary"
>>
>>Thanks Gary, Genny, and Dave!
>>
>>I wonder why I got Charles email all garbled like that? I get those every
>>once in a while...I was attributing it before to the email being sent
>>using a foreign language character set, obviously that wasn't the case if
>>all of you could read it...strange stuff?
>>
>>Thanks again, and thank you Charles!
>>
>>-Steve Gregory-
>>
>>P.S. Charles, I would appreciate it if you would send me the info you
>>have...next week would be fine, and most appreciated! Also, I don't
>>think we have the same customer...
>>
>>In a message dated 12/14/01 2:19:37 PM Central Standard Time,
>>[log in to unmask],
>>[log in to unmask], and [log in to unmask] writes:
>>
>>
>>>From: "Charles Caswell" <<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]>
>>>Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>>>Date: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:28 AM
>>>
>>>Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same
>>>stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find the
>>>stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS fuel
>>>tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts of
>>>AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the same
>>>customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some info, if
>>>not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.
>>>Charles Caswell
>>
>Hi,
>
>I will be back on 12/17/01.
>
>Regards,
>Jong
--=====================_1333797==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<html>
At 02:57 PM 12/14/01 -0600, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001
14:57:26 -0600<br>
Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
From: Automatic digest processor
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: TechNet Digest - 14 Dec 2001 - Special issue
(#2001-778)<br>
To: Recipients of TechNet digests
<[log in to unmask]><br>
<br>
There are 12 messages totalling 927 lines in this issue.<br>
<br>
Topics in this special issue:<br>
<br>
1. IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines<br>
2. Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... (4)<br>
3. EPA TRI reporting of lead usage<br>
4. photoplotters (2)<br>
5. Homeplate apertures, how to use them (3)<br>
6. Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... What Did Charles
Say?<br>
<br>
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:33:41 -0700<br>
From: Rick Howieson
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C184B4.B57E7D70"<br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2 color="#0000FF">1710 is more of a supplier
profile and not an audit guideline. It will give you an idea of what a
board shop can accomplish compared to your design but does not get into
how a fabricator controls their process.</font><br>
Rick<blockquote><font face="tahoma" size=2>
<dl>
<dd>-----Original Message-----
<dd>From:</b> Stephen R. Gregory
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]
<dd>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:09 PM
<dd>To:</b> [log in to unmask]
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [TN] IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines<br>
<br>
</font><font face="arial" size=2>
<dd>Hi Jana, <br>
<br>
<dd>Go to <a href="http://www.ipc.org/" eudora="autourl">www.ipc.org</a>,
then click on Online Resources and Databases, then scroll all the way
down to IPC Documents Available for Download and click on that. <br>
<br>
<dd>You will find: <br>
<br>
<dd>IPC-1710 OEM
<dd>Standard for Printed Board Manufacturers' Qualification Profile
<br>
<br>
<dd>Developed by the OEM council of the IPC, the MQP sets the standard
for assessing PWB manufacturers capabilities and allows PWB manufacturers
to more easily satisfy customer requirements. <br>
<br>
<dd>IPC-1720
<dd>Assembly Qualification Profile Developed by the OEM council of the
IPC, IPC-1720 categorized an electronic assembly manufacturer's
capabilities and supplies the OEM customer with detailed, substantive
information. <br>
<br>
<dd>IPC-1730A
<dd>Laminator Qualifier Profile
<dd>Are you a laminate manufacturer looking to provide your customers
with a consistent, detailed report on your facility(s)? IPC-1730A is the
one tool laminate manufacturers can use to provide current and potential
customers with a profile of their facilities. By completing this
questionnaire, laminators can provide information on materials supplied,
approvals and certifications, testing available, equipment capabilities
and more! <br>
<br>
<dd>IPC-1731
<dd>Strategic Raw Materials Supplier Qualification Profile (SRMSQP)
<dd>Suppliers of raw materials to laminate manufacture now have an
industry approved questionaire to supply current and potential customers
with a self assessment of their facility(s). IPC-1731 gives suppliers of
raw materials the opportunity to create a profile of their manufacturing
facility(s) that will be consistent with those developed by similar
suppliers. Using the MS Word template enables easy creation and
maintenance of the file(s) and provide their customers with an electronic
file for their records. <br>
<br>
<dd>-Steve Gregory- <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>
<dd>Greetings All, <br>
<br>
<dd>I have in the back of my mind, a dusty place indeed, that IPC had a
document
<dd>containing Supplier Audit guidelines. I have surfed the IPC
site and do not
<dd>find such a document in the Technical Publications pdf. Does
IPC have
<dd>something like this, or ... I'm losing it!
<dd>Thanks for the help,
<dd>Jana Carraway
<dd>Micro Systems Engineering, Inc. </font></blockquote><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</dl>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:27:33 -0800<br>
From: "Barmuta, Mike"
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Steve:<br>
Take a look at MIL-S-8516 Sealing Compound, Polysulfide Rubber,
Electrical<br>
Connectors and Electrical Systems, Chemically Cured. I think this is more
in<br>
line with what you are doing than 8802.<br>
Polysulfde compounds have been around a long time, however for
electrical<br>
applications I think most have been replaced by urethanes and
silicones.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Good Luck !<br>
<br>
Michael Barmuta<br>
<br>
Staff Engineer<br>
<br>
Fluke Corp.<br>
<br>
Everett WA<br>
<br>
425-446-6076<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Stephen R. Gregory
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:26 AM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi All!!<br>
<br>
....tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance!
hehehe)<br>
<br>
<br>
I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I could
find<br>
some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class A-2, with
50<br>
plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...<br>
<br>
This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's
using<br>
this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are
installed<br>
on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about
polysulfide<br>
compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under MIL-S-8802, I
find<br>
all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but still
nothing<br>
alumina filled...<br>
<br>
Any help will be much appreciated<br>
<br>
-Steve Gregory-<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:30:16 -0500<br>
From: Gregg Klawson <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
Hi Steve,<br>
<br>
You can always buy the alumina powder and polysulfide compound
separately<br>
and mix 'em together. I've seen this done successfully with
various<br>
adhesive materials, not sure if we ever did it with a polysulfide
though.<br>
<br>
Good luck,<br>
Gregg<br>
<br>
At 09:26 AM 12/14/01, Stephen R. Gregory wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Hi All!!<br>
<br>
...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance!
hehehe)<br>
<br>
I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I
could<br>
find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class
A-2,<br>
with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...<br>
<br>
This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's
using<br>
this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are
installed<br>
on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about
polysulfide<br>
compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under MIL-S-8802,
I<br>
find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but still<br>
nothing alumina filled...<br>
<br>
Any help will be much appreciated<br>
<br>
-Steve Gregory-</blockquote><br>
<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:56:31 -0500<br>
From: Phil Nutting
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: EPA TRI reporting of lead usage<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
This topic (lead usage and disposal reporting) got bounced around<br>
several months ago. I know the IPC has spoken to the go'ment about
the<br>
ramifications this ruling brings and it is my understanding that
the<br>
feds turned a deaf ear to them. So, to that end, has anyone
attempted<br>
to figure out what we (as small OEMs building electronic devices
that<br>
include circuit boards) are supposed to submit to the feds in the way
of<br>
reporting? I've attempted to wade through the EPA documents and
wish<br>
there was a "Cliff Notes" version so I can figure out what we
are<br>
supposed to do without having to hire an expensive consultant.<br>
<br>
Have I just opened a can of worms?<br>
<br>
Phil Nutting<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:58:18 -0800<br>
From: Karla Thompson <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: photoplotters<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Thanks for the replies.<br>
Anyone have an EIE plotter? Specifically the RP200 line?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Mark Hargreaves
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 04:28<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: Re: photoplotters<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Karla,<br>
We currently have a 3-4 year old CSI (guess it's Gretag now) plotter.
We're<br>
happy with the images, speed and up-time.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Mark Hargreaves<br>
EMDS<br>
<br>
-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: Karla
Thompson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]<br>
Sent: Thursday,
December 13, 2001 6:28 PM<br>
To:
[log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: [TN]
photoplotters<br>
<br>
I'm in the process of looking
at Photoplotters and would appreciate<br>
any<br>
input any of you may have. We
currently have a 5-6 year old Barco<br>
Crescent<br>
30. I'm looking at EIE,
Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you<br>
have any<br>
comments on those, or any
others (?) I'd appreciate it.<br>
<br>
<br>
Karla Thompson<br>
CAM Technician<br>
Electronic Controls Design,
Inc<br>
Tel: (503) 829-9108<br>
email: [log in to unmask]<br>
<br>
<br>
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:45:47 -0500<br>
From: Brock Hunter <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: photoplotters<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<br>
<br>
Karla,<br>
<br>
We have an EIE RP-508 and have only been down once in the past 14 months.
Overall we are quite<br>
pleased with it. Initially it was intended to supplement our CSI FIRE
9300 and quickly took<br>
over all the work, typically 130 - 150 plots ( 24 X 30 ) per day.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Brock<br>
<br>
Karla Thompson wrote:<br>
<br>
> Thanks for the replies.<br>
> Anyone have an EIE plotter? Specifically the RP200 line?<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Mark Hargreaves
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 04:28<br>
> To: [log in to unmask]<br>
> Subject: Re: photoplotters<br>
><br>
> Hi Karla,<br>
> We currently have a 3-4 year old CSI (guess it's Gretag now)
plotter. We're<br>
> happy with the images, speed and up-time.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
> Mark Hargreaves<br>
> EMDS<br>
><br>
> -----Original
Message-----<br>
> From:
Karla Thompson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]<br>
> Sent:
Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:28 PM<br>
>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
>
Subject: [TN]
photoplotters<br>
><br>
> I'm in the process
of looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate<br>
> any<br>
> input any of you may
have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco<br>
> Crescent<br>
> 30. I'm
looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you<br>
> have any<br>
> comments on those,
or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.<br>
><br>
> Karla Thompson<br>
> CAM Technician<br>
> Electronic Controls
Design, Inc<br>
> Tel: (503)
829-9108<br>
> email:
[log in to unmask]<br>
><br>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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--<br>
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Engineering Mgr.<br>
Dynamic & Proto Circuits<br>
TEL (905) 643-9900<br>
FAX (905) 643-9437<br>
<a href="http://www.dapc.com/" eudora="autourl">http://www.dapc.com</a><br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:56:32 -0500<br>
From: Jeff Seeger <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<br>
<br>
"d. terstegge" wrote:<br>
><br>
> snip <<br>
> How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions on
how to make an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about easier
ways to order a stencil according to my spec ?<br>
<br>
<br>
Wouldn't this be handled best
in design? That way it can<br>
be a part of the footprint and
happen "by itself".<br>
<br>
Most of the dense boards I've
seen lately are very difficult<br>
to determine which pads relate
to each other with any degree<br>
of certainty.
Silkscreens are so compromised as to not be<br>
reliable indicators.<br>
<br>
Just a thought,<br>
--<br>
<br>
Jeff
Seeger
Applied CAD Knowledge Inc<br>
Chief Technical
Officer
Tyngsboro, MA 01879<br>
jseeger "at" appliedcad
"dot"
com
978 649 9800<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:17:25 -0600<br>
From: Charles Caswell
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same<br>
stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find
the<br>
stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS
fuel<br>
tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts
of<br>
AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the
same<br>
customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some info,
if<br>
not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.<br>
Charles Caswell<br>
Process Lead, PCB<br>
Frontier Electronic Systems<br>
<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>-----Original
Message----- <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>From:
Stephen R. Gregory <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>Sent: Fri
12/14/2001 8:26 AM <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>To:
[log in to unmask] <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>Cc: <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>Subject:
[TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab><br>
<x-tab> </x-tab><br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>Hi All!!
<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab><br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin'
my thank gawd it's Friday<br>
dance! hehehe) <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab><br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>I was
wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I<br>
could find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per
MIL-S-8802,<br>
class A-2, with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...
<br>
<x-tab> </x-tab><br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>This is
something that is called out on a drawing for a board<br>
that's using this material to strain relief two small battery
cables<br>
that are installed on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of<br>
stuff about polysulfide compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I<br>
search under MIL-S-8802, I find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for
jet<br>
fuel tanks, but still nothing alumina filled... <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab><br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>Any help
will be much appreciated <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab><br>
<x-tab> </x-tab>-Steve
Gregory- <br>
<x-tab> </x-tab><br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:38:40 EST<br>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory"
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_16b.5ac614f.294baf40_boundary"<br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2>Hi Charles, <br>
<br>
Sorry, but I didn't understand a word you said... <br>
<br>
-Steve Gregory- <br>
<br>
In a message dated 12/14/01 1:17:12 PM Central Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes: <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>U3RldmUsIEkgYW0gYXQgaG9tZSBzbyBJIGRvbid0IGhhdmUgdGhlIGluZm8gaGVyZSAuIFdlIHVz
<br>
ZSB0aGUgc2FtZQ0Kc3R1ZmYgdG8gYm9uZCBjb21wb25lbnRzIG9uIHNvbWUgYm9hcmRzLiBJIGRv
<br>
bid0IHRoaW5rIHlvdSB3aWxsIGZpbmQgdGhlDQpzdHVmZiBhbHJlYWR5IG1peGVkIHdpdGggdGhl
<br>
IEFsTzIuIEkgY291bGRuJ3QuIFRoZSBwb2x5c3VsZmlkZSBJUyBmdWVsDQp0YW5rIHNlYWxhbnQu
<br>
IFdlIG1peCBpdCBpbiBzbWFsbCBiYXRjaGVzIHdpdGggYXBwcm94LiBlcXVhbCBwYXJ0cyBvZg0K
<br>
QWxPMiBhbmQgdGhlIGJhc2UgbWF0ZXJpYWwgYnkgd2VpZ2h0LiBJIHdvbmRlciBpZiAgd2UgaGF2
<br>
ZSB0aGUgc2FtZQ0KY3VzdG9tZXIuIEkgd2lsbCB0cnkgdG8gZ2V0IGludG8gd29yayB0b21tb3Jv
<br>
dyBhbmQgc2VuZCBzb21lIGluZm8sIGlmDQpub3QgdGhlbiBvbiBNb24uIEJ5IHRoZSB3YXksIHRo
<br>
ZSBzdHVmZiBzdGlua3MuDQpDaGFybGVzIENhc3dlbGwNClByb2Nlc3MgTGVhZCwgUENCDQpGcm9u
<br>
dGllciBFbGVjdHJvbmljIFN5c3RlbXMNCg0KCS0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tIA0K
<br>
CUZyb206IFN0ZXBoZW4gUi4gR3JlZ29yeSANCglTZW50OiBGcmkgMTIvMTQvMjAwMSA4OjI2IEFN
<br>
IA0KCVRvOiBUZWNoTmV0QElQQy5PUkcgDQoJQ2M6IA0KCVN1YmplY3Q6IFtUTl0gQWx1bWluYSBm
<br>
aWxsZWQgUG9seXN1bGZpZGUgY29tcG91bmQuLi4NCgkNCgkNCglIaSBBbGwhISANCgkNCgkuLi50
<br>
YXBwaXR5LXRhcHBpdHktdGFwcGl0eS4uLihkb2luJyBteSB0aGFuayBnYXdkIGl0J3MgRnJpZGF5
<br>
DQpkYW5jZSEgaGVoZWhlKSANCgkNCglJIHdhcyB3b25kZXJpbmcgaWYgc29tZW9uZSBjb3VsZCBw
<br>
b2ludCBtZSBpbiBhIGRpcmVjdGlvbiB3aGVyZSBJDQpjb3VsZCBmaW5kIHNvbWUgYWx1bWluYSBm
<br>
aWxsZWQgcG9seXN1bGZpZGUgY29tcG91bmQsIHBlciBNSUwtUy04ODAyLA0KY2xhc3MgQS0yLCB3
<br>
aXRoIDUwIHBsdXMgb3IgbWludXMgMTAlLCAzMjUgbWVzaCBhbHVtaW51bSBveGlkZSBwb3dkZXIu
<br>
Li4gDQoJDQoJVGhpcyBpcyBzb21ldGhpbmcgdGhhdCBpcyBjYWxsZWQgb3V0IG9uIGEgZHJhd2lu
<br>
ZyBmb3IgYSBib2FyZA0KdGhhdCdzIHVzaW5nIHRoaXMgbWF0ZXJpYWwgdG8gc3RyYWluIHJlbGll
<br>
ZiB0d28gc21hbGwgYmF0dGVyeSBjYWJsZXMNCnRoYXQgYXJlIGluc3RhbGxlZCBvbiB0aGUgYm9h
<br>
cmQuLi5JJ3ZlIHNlYXJjaGVkIGFuZCBmaW5kIGEgYnVuY2ggb2YNCnN0dWZmIGFib3V0IHBvbHlz
<br>
dWxmaWRlIGNvbXBvdW5kcywgYnV0IG5vdGhpbmcgYWx1bWluYSBmaWxsZWQuIElmIEkNCnNlYXJj
<br>
aCB1bmRlciBNSUwtUy04ODAyLCBJIGZpbmQgYWxsIGtpbmRzIG9mIHBvbHlzdWxmaWRlIHNlYWxl
<br>
cnMgZm9yIGpldA0KZnVlbCB0YW5rcywgYnV0IHN0aWxsIG5vdGhpbmcgYWx1bWluYSBmaWxsZWQu
<br>
Li4gDQoJDQoJQW55IGhlbHAgd2lsbCBiZSBtdWNoIGFwcHJlY2lhdGVkIA0KCQ0KCS1TdGV2ZSBH
<br>
cmVnb3J5LSANCgkNCg0K </blockquote><br>
<br>
</font><font face="arial">Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001
21:24:28 +0100<br>
From: "D.Terstegge"
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0068_01C184E5.B6848580"<br>
<br>
</font><font face="MS Sans Serif, Geneva" size=4>I agree, but for
subcontracting that's a situation that I can only dream of. The reality
is that you get Gerber data (one to one with the pads) that you need to
edit yourself, or you need to make clear instructions for the company
that makes the stencils so they can do the Gerber-editing.</font><br>
<font face="arial"> <br>
</font><font face="MS Sans Serif, Geneva" size=4>Daan
Terstegge</font><br>
<font face="arial"> <br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- </font>
<dl>
<dd>From:</b> <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">Jeff Seeger</a>
<dd>To:</b> <a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>
<dd>Sent:</b> Friday, December 14, 2001 6:56 PM
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to use them<br>
<br>
<dd>"d. terstegge" wrote:
<dd>>
<dd>> snip <
<dd>> How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions
on how to make an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about
easier ways to order a stencil according to my spec ?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<dd> Wouldn't this be handled
best in design? That way it can
<dd> be a part of the footprint
and happen "by itself".<br>
<br>
<dd> Most of the dense boards
I've seen lately are very difficult
<dd> to determine which pads
relate to each other with any degree
<dd> of certainty.
Silkscreens are so compromised as to not be
<dd> reliable indicators.<br>
<br>
<dd> Just a thought,
<dd>--<br>
<br>
<dd> Jeff
Seeger
Applied CAD Knowledge Inc
<dd> Chief Technical
Officer
Tyngsboro, MA 01879
<dd> jseeger "at" appliedcad
"dot"
com
978 649 9800<br>
<br>
<dd>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<dd>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
<dd>To unsubscribe, send a message to
<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a> with following
text in
<dd>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
<dd>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:
SET Technet NOMAIL
<dd>Search previous postings at:
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<dd>Please visit IPC web site
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for additional
<dd>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at
<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a> or 847-509-9700
ext.5315
<dd>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
</dl>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:46:45 -0600<br>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them<br>
<br>
Some things you can do include editing Gerber (dumb xy data) or
ODB++<br>
(intellegent) data using a CAM package as Valor. This package, as
an<br>
example, provides clearly identifiable graphic information concerning
pads,<br>
with special features, and their locations. All this is provided you
have<br>
built in design rules as ERF's (external reference files).<br>
<br>
Also, if the stencil maker is using a similar package it may easily<br>
translate requirements into an AOI system. If so, AOI is an answer I've
used<br>
many times, when applicable. Don't know why this isn't done more. Asked
this<br>
group some time back but no responses.<br>
<br>
MoonMan<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:04:03 EST<br>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory"
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... What Did Charles
Say?<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_147.65a01ae.294bc343_boundary"<br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2>Thanks Gary, Genny, and Dave! <br>
<br>
I wonder why I got Charles email all garbled like that? I get those every
once in a while...I was attributing it before to the email being sent
using a foreign language character set, obviously that wasn't the case if
all of you could read it...strange stuff? <br>
<br>
Thanks again, and thank you Charles! <br>
<br>
-Steve Gregory- <br>
<br>
P.S. Charles, I would appreciate it if you would send me the info you
have...next week would be fine, and most appreciated! Also, I
don't think we have the same customer... <br>
<br>
In a message dated 12/14/01 2:19:37 PM Central Standard Time,
[log in to unmask], <br>
[log in to unmask], and [log in to unmask] </i>writes: <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>From: "Charles Caswell"
<<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>>
<br>
Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled
Polysulfide compound... <br>
Date: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:28 AM <br>
<br>
Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same stuff
to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find the stuff
already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS fuel tank
sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts of AlO2 and
the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the same customer.
I will try to get into work tommorow and send some info, if not then on
Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks. <br>
Charles Caswell </font></blockquote><br>
<font face="arial"></blockquote>Hi,<br>
<br>
I will be back on 12/17/01.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Jong<br>
</font></html>
--=====================_1333797==_.ALT--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:58:06 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: jong s kadesch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 14 Dec 2001 to 15 Dec
2001 (#2001-780))
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=====================_1334418==_.ALT"
--=====================_1334418==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 12:00 AM 12/16/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 00:00:17 -0600
>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: TechNet Digest - 14 Dec 2001 to 15 Dec 2001 (#2001-780)
>To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There are 4 messages totalling 234 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. [tn] what's up?
> 2. Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... (2)
> 3. [tn] what's up? Servers backup, that's what's up
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:40:22 EST
>From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: [tn] what's up?
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>testing...testing...testing...why aren't things being posted?
>testing...testing...
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:01:08 EST
>From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>boundary="part1_178.cfb88f.294bfad4_boundary"
>
>Oh wonderful!!
>
>I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon in production!
>
>Almost had a mutiny when we had to use terpene to clean boards because of
>a customer requirement...(I kinda' like the smell of terpene in the
>mornin'....smells like...smells like victory!...errrr, I mean like Tang!
>hehehe)
>
>Off to search for some fume exhausting booths to do this, and figure out
>how we're gonna' exhaust this stuff while it cures...can't deal with
>rotten egg smell, that's for sure!
>
>-Steve Gregory-
>
>
>>The sulphur content probably is the source or the 'smell'... like rotten
>>eggs.
>>- Bill Brooks
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Charles Caswell [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:17 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>>
>>
>>Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same
>>stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find the
>>stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS fuel
>>tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts of
>>AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the same
>>customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some info, if
>>not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.
>>Charles Caswell
>>Process Lead, PCB
>>Frontier Electronic Systems
>
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:19:21 EST
>From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>boundary="part1_129.94d14e9.294bf109_boundary"
>
>Oh wonderful!!
>
>I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon in production!
>
>Almost had a mutiny when we had to use terpene to clean boards because of
>a customer requirement...(I kinda' like the smell of terpene in the
>mornin'....smells like...smells like victory!...errrr, I mean like Tang!
>hehehe)
>
>Off to search for some fume exhausting booths to do this, and figure out
>how we're gonna' exhaust this stuff while it cures...can't deal with
>rotten egg smell, that's for sure!
>
>-Steve Gregory-
>
>
>>The sulphur content probably is the source or the 'smell'... like rotten
>>eggs.
>>- Bill Brooks
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Charles Caswell [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:17 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>>
>>
>>Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same
>>stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find the
>>stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS fuel
>>tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts of
>>AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the same
>>customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some info, if
>>not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.
>>Charles Caswell
>>Process Lead, PCB
>>Frontier Electronic Systems
>
>
>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:26:31 -0600
>From: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: [tn] what's up? Servers backup, that's what's up
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>Had it plastered all over web site(s) but forgot to msg out to the forums
>that we were off-line Fri eve until Sat eve due to annual building primary
>power preventive maintenance. All postings should eventually get posted as
>they come in from our ISP ques. Jack
>
> >>> [log in to unmask] 12/14/01 08:40PM >>>
>testing...testing...testing...why aren't things being posted?
>testing...testing...
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET
>Technet NOMAIL
>Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
>E-mail Archives
>Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700
>ext.5315
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
Hi,
I will be back on 12/17/01.
Regards,
Jong
--=====================_1334418==_.ALT
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At 12:00 AM 12/16/01 -0600, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001
00:00:17 -0600<br>
Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]><br>
From: Automatic digest processor
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: TechNet Digest - 14 Dec 2001 to 15 Dec 2001
(#2001-780)<br>
To: Recipients of TechNet digests
<[log in to unmask]><br>
<br>
There are 4 messages totalling 234 lines in this issue.<br>
<br>
Topics of the day:<br>
<br>
1. [tn] what's up?<br>
2. Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... (2)<br>
3. [tn] what's up? Servers backup, that's what's up<br>
<br>
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:40:22 EST<br>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory"
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: [tn] what's up?<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"<br>
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<br>
testing...testing...testing...why aren't things being posted?<br>
testing...testing...<br>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:01:08 EST<br>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory"
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_178.cfb88f.294bfad4_boundary"<br>
<br>
<font face="arial" size=2>Oh wonderful!! <br>
<br>
I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon in production! <br>
<br>
Almost had a mutiny when we had to use terpene to clean boards because of
a customer requirement...(I kinda' like the smell of terpene in the
mornin'....smells like...smells like victory!...errrr, I mean like Tang!
hehehe)<br>
<br>
Off to search for some fume exhausting booths to do this, and figure out
how we're gonna' exhaust this stuff while it cures...can't deal with
rotten egg smell, that's for sure!<br>
<br>
-Steve Gregory-<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>The sulphur content probably is the source or
the 'smell'... like rotten<br>
eggs.<br>
- Bill Brooks<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Charles Caswell
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:17 AM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<br>
<br>
<br>
Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same<br>
stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find
the<br>
stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS
fuel<br>
tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts
of<br>
AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the
same<br>
customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some info,
if<br>
not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.<br>
Charles Caswell<br>
Process Lead, PCB<br>
Frontier Electronic Systems</blockquote><br>
</font><font face="arial">Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001
19:19:21 EST<br>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory"
<[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_129.94d14e9.294bf109_boundary"<br>
<br>
</font><font face="arial" size=2>Oh wonderful!! <br>
<br>
I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon in production! <br>
<br>
Almost had a mutiny when we had to use terpene to clean boards because of
a customer requirement...(I kinda' like the smell of terpene in the
mornin'....smells like...smells like victory!...errrr, I mean like Tang!
hehehe)<br>
<br>
Off to search for some fume exhausting booths to do this, and figure out
how we're gonna' exhaust this stuff while it cures...can't deal with
rotten egg smell, that's for sure!<br>
<br>
-Steve Gregory-<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>The sulphur content probably is the source or
the 'smell'... like rotten<br>
eggs.<br>
- Bill Brooks<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Charles Caswell
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" eudora="autourl">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]<br>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:17 AM<br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...<br>
<br>
<br>
Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use the same<br>
stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you will find
the<br>
stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The polysulfide IS
fuel<br>
tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal parts
of<br>
AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have the
same<br>
customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some info,
if<br>
not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.<br>
Charles Caswell<br>
Process Lead, PCB<br>
Frontier Electronic Systems</blockquote><br>
<br>
</font><font face="arial">Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001
17:26:31 -0600<br>
From: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]><br>
Subject: Re: [tn] what's up? Servers backup, that's what's up<br>
MIME-Version: 1.0<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
<br>
Had it plastered all over web site(s) but forgot to msg out to the forums
that we were off-line Fri eve until Sat eve due to annual building
primary power preventive maintenance. All postings should eventually get
posted as they come in from our ISP ques. Jack<br>
<br>
>>> [log in to unmask] 12/14/01 08:40PM >>><br>
testing...testing...testing...why aren't things being posted?<br>
testing...testing...<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>Hi,<br>
<br>
I will be back on 12/17/01.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Jong<br>
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:58:08 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: jong s kadesch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 15 Dec 2001 to 16 Dec
2001 (#2001-781))
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 12:00 AM 12/17/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:00:05 -0600
>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: TechNet Digest - 15 Dec 2001 to 16 Dec 2001 (#2001-781)
>To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
>There are 3 messages totalling 150 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. tin compatalbe etchants (2)
> 2. photoplotters
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
>Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:27:06 -0600
>From: Adam Seychell <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: tin compatalbe etchants
>
>What are the known etchants useful for boards made with electroplated tin
>etch resists ? We have been using alkaline sulfate based etchant which works
>very well, even with a 1 um bright tin plating thickness. Ammonium
>persulfate etchant was shown to attack tin.
>
>Also are there any advantages of stripping the tin when no solder mask will
>be used ?
>Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:33:28 -0500
>From: Afri Singh <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: photoplotters
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>have you had a chance to look at the Mivatec (Germany) ?
>Their rep in USA is 480 777 7600
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Karla Thompson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:58 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] photoplotters
>
>
>Thanks for the replies.
> Anyone have an EIE plotter? Specifically the RP200 line?
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Hargreaves [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 04:28
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: photoplotters
>
>
>Hi Karla,
>We currently have a 3-4 year old CSI (guess it's Gretag now) plotter. We're
>happy with the images, speed and up-time.
>
>Regards,
>Mark Hargreaves
>EMDS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karla Thompson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:28 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] photoplotters
>
> I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate
>any
> input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco
>Crescent
> 30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you
>have any
> comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.
>
>
> Karla Thompson
> CAM Technician
> Electronic Controls Design, Inc
> Tel: (503) 829-9108
> email: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
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>additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
>847-509-9700 ext.5315
>
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>-----
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----
>Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:16:46 EST
>From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: tin compatalbe etchants
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Adam: Please see below...
>
> > What are the known etchants useful for boards made with electroplated tin
> > etch resists ? We have been using alkaline sulfate based etchant which
>works
> > very well, even with a 1 um bright tin plating thickness.
>
>Uh, Adam, you are probably using the best etchant known for Tin, and getting
>away with thinner Tin than anyone using any other etchant. The only other
>etchant suitable for use with Tin is a variant on what you are currently
>using, and it is based on ammonium chloride....and most people in the world
>use this one, and most people using this etchant need 5-6 um of Tin.
>
>Why do you want to change?
>
>Rudy Sedlak
>RD Chemical Company
Hi,
I will be back on 12/17/01.
Regards,
Jong
--=====================_1334919==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<x-html><div>At 12:00 AM 12/17/01 -0600, you wrote:</div>
<blockquote type=cite><div>Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001
00:00:05 -0600</div>
<div>Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>From: Automatic digest processor
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: TechNet Digest - 15 Dec 2001 to 16 Dec 2001
(#2001-781)</div>
<div>To: Recipients of TechNet
digests <[log in to unmask]></div>
<br>
<div>There are 3 messages totalling 150 lines in this issue.</div>
<br>
<div>Topics of the day:</div>
<br>
<div> 1. tin compatalbe etchants (2)</div>
<div> 2. photoplotters</div>
<br>
<div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
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1.8d</div>
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<div>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315</div>
<div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div>
<div>Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:27:06 -0600</div>
<div>From: Adam Seychell
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: tin compatalbe etchants</div>
<br>
<div>What are the known etchants useful for boards made with
electroplated tin</div>
<div>etch resists ? We have been using alkaline sulfate based etchant
which works</div>
<div>very well, even with a 1 um bright tin plating thickness.
Ammonium</div>
<div>persulfate etchant was shown to attack tin.</div>
<br>
<div>Also are there any advantages of stripping the tin when no solder
mask will</div>
<div>be used ?</div>
<div>Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:33:28 -0500</div>
<div>From: Afri Singh <[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: photoplotters</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"</div>
<br>
<div>have you had a chance to look at the Mivatec (Germany)
?</div>
<div>Their rep in USA is 480 777 7600</div>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: Karla Thompson
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]</div>
<div>Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:58 AM</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [TN] photoplotters</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Thanks for the replies.</div>
<div> Anyone have an EIE plotter? Specifically the RP200
line?</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>
<div>From: Mark Hargreaves
[<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]" EUDORA=AUTOURL>mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>]</div>
<div>Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 04:28</div>
<div>To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>Subject: Re: photoplotters</div>
<br>
<br>
<div>Hi Karla,</div>
<div>We currently have a 3-4 year old CSI (guess it's Gretag now)
plotter. We're</div>
<div>happy with the images, speed and up-time.</div>
<br>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Mark Hargreaves</div>
<div>EMDS</div>
<br>
<div> -----Original
Message-----</div>
<div> From: Karla
Thompson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]</div>
<div> Sent:
Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:28 PM</div>
<div>
To: [log in to unmask]</div>
<div>
Subject: [TN]
photoplotters</div>
<br>
<div> I'm in the process of
looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate</div>
<div>any</div>
<div> input any of you may
have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco</div>
<div>Crescent</div>
<div> 30. I'm looking at
EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you</div>
<div>have any</div>
<div> comments on those, or any
others (?) I'd appreciate it.</div>
<br>
<br>
<div> Karla Thompson</div>
<div> CAM Technician</div>
<div> Electronic Controls
Design, Inc</div>
<div> Tel: (503)
829-9108</div>
<div> email:
[log in to unmask]</div>
<br>
<br>
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Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or</div>
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<div>-----</div>
<div>Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:16:46 EST</div>
<div>From: "<Rudy Sedlak>"
<[log in to unmask]></div>
<div>Subject: Re: tin compatalbe etchants</div>
<div>MIME-Version: 1.0</div>
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"</div>
<div>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit</div>
<br>
<div>Adam: Please see below...</div>
<br>
<div>> What are the known etchants useful for boards made with
electroplated tin</div>
<div>> etch resists ? We have been using alkaline sulfate based
etchant which</div>
<div>works</div>
<div>> very well, even with a 1 um bright tin plating
thickness.</div>
<br>
<div>Uh, Adam, you are probably using the best etchant known for Tin, and
getting</div>
<div>away with thinner Tin than anyone using any other etchant. The
only other</div>
<div>etchant suitable for use with Tin is a variant on what you are
currently</div>
<div>using, and it is based on ammonium chloride....and most people in
the world</div>
<div>use this one, and most people using this etchant need 5-6 um of
Tin.</div>
<br>
<div>Why do you want to change?</div>
<br>
<div>Rudy Sedlak</div>
RD Chemical Company
</blockquote></x-html>
<html><div>Hi,</div>
<br>
<div>I will be back on 12/17/01.</div>
<br>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Jong</div>
</html>
--=====================_1334919==_.ALT--
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:29:40 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C1870F.A53DBB30"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1870F.A53DBB30
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
hi,
we use what used to be ablebond 927-1, but is now trabond 927-1. it is a formualtion developed by what was the huge airsmash co. (also was known as the hughes aircraft company). this material may have aluminum nitride in it for improved thermal transfer properties. if that won't work, i'm sure tra-con would whip up a batch for you.
phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen R. Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
Hi All!!
...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance! hehehe)
I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I could find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class A-2, with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...
This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's using this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are installed on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about polysulfide compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under MIL-S-8802, I find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but still nothing alumina filled...
Any help will be much appreciated
-Steve Gregory-
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1870F.A53DBB30
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=177252415-17122001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>hi,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=177252415-17122001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=177252415-17122001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>we use
what used to be ablebond 927-1, but is now trabond 927-1. it is a
formualtion developed by what was the huge airsmash co. (also was known as the
hughes aircraft company). this material may have aluminum nitride in it
for improved thermal transfer properties. if that won't work, i'm sure
tra-con would whip up a batch for you.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=177252415-17122001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=177252415-17122001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>phil</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Stephen R. Gregory
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, December 14, 2001 6:26
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Alumina filled
Polysulfide compound...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT
size=2>Hi All!! <BR><BR>...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's
Friday dance! hehehe) <BR><BR>I was wondering if someone could point me in a
direction where I could find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per
MIL-S-8802, class A-2, with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide
powder... <BR><BR>This is something that is called out on a drawing for a
board that's using this material to strain relief two small battery cables
that are installed on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff
about polysulfide compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under
MIL-S-8802, I find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but
still nothing alumina filled... <BR><BR>Any help will be much appreciated
<BR><BR>-Steve Gregory- <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C1870F.A53DBB30--
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:41:58 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Diamond, Pat" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Rust on component a component body
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello all,
we have received some 2N 3441 JANTX power silicon transisitors in a TO-66
body, which are showing evidence of rust around the "top hat" section.
Unfortunately this component is one of the growing number that have become
obsolete.
My questions;
is this rust likely to have an adverse effect over the passage of time?
Is there a way of removing/neutralising it to prevent furher deterioration?
The part is for an Aero application and will be conformally coated in
service.
as ever, your advice would be greatly appreciated.
Pat Diamond
Weston Aerospace
Farnborough UK
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:43:13 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Edward Szpruch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 13 Dec 2001 (
#2001-776))
X-cc: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Keach,
Could you be so kind and disconnect Mr Jong untill he is back from his
vacations???
Edward
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jong s kadesch [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: =E1 =E3=F6=EE=E1=F8 17 2001 16:58
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 13 Dec 2001
> (#2001-776))
>=20
> At 12:00 AM 12/14/01 -0600, you wrote:
>=20
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 00:00:04 -0600
> Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
> From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: TechNet Digest - 13 Dec 2001 (#2001-776)
> To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>=20
> There are 8 messages totalling 516 lines in this issue.
>=20
> Topics of the day:
>=20
> 1. porosity of gold plating on nickel (2)
> 2. Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA (2)
> 3. .050 PWB (2)
> 4. PCB Density Study/Design Quoting
> 5. photoplotters
>=20
> =09
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
> text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org <http://www.ipc.org/> >
> On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>) for
> additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> =09
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> -------
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:30:15 -0500
> From: "Vandendolder, Ron" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: porosity of gold plating on nickel
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>=20
> Kris,
>=20
> Although not quantitative, I was impressed with some SEM's (Scanning
> Electron Microscope)
> pictures taken of some gold plated Duroid boards that were not
> performing as
> expected. The pictures showed globular deposits of gold on the top
> surface.
> Where the globular deposits didn't
> touch, nickel was clearly showing.
>=20
> Ron VandenDolder
> Product Development Group
> Telaxis Communications
> SouthDeerfield, MA
> 413-665-8551
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kris Keating [ <mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:31 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] porosity of gold plating on nickel
>=20
>=20
> Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of determining porosity
> of gold
> plating over nickel on a PCB?
>=20
>=20
> Kristopher J. Keating
> Technical Service Engineer
> Circuit-Wise, Inc.
> 400 Sackett Point Rd.
> North Haven, CT 06473
> Tel. (203) 281-6511
> Fax (203) 287-8409
>=20
> =09
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> --
> -----
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
> text in
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> SET
> Technet NOMAIL
> Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org <http://www.ipc.org/> >
> On-Line Resources & Databases >
> E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>) for
> additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> =09
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> --
> -----
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:44:57 -0700
> From: Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
>=20
> Hey Stacy,
>=20
> It sounds as though on paper, your process is OK. Just to fill you
> in on
> aspect ratio, that is aperture width/stencil thickness. This is a
> good rule
> of thumb for rectangular apertures such as for fine pitch
> components. For
> small circular or square apertures most people use the area aspect
> ratio
> which is aperture area/wall area. The area aspect ratio should be
> above
> ..66. Thus on a .005" thick stencil with a .0135" square aperture
> you are
> looking at (.0135*.0135)/((.0135*.005)*4) =3D .675.
> Actually the area aspect ratio for a .0135" round aperture is the
> same as
> that for a square aperture, yet release on the square aperture has
> generally
> been proven to be better (don't forget a .002" or .003" radius on
> the
> corners).
>=20
> Anyway my point was going to be that I had the exact same apertures
> ordered
> on one particular project, and the apertures all clogged up (luckily
> we
> caught them at the visual step). It seems the apertures were
> severely
> undersized (more like .0122" x .0122"). So are your apertures
> really
> ..0135"?
>=20
> As Kathy mentioned, kneed or condition your paste. The paste may
> take a few
> prints to fully mix and provide the thixotropic characteristics that
> you
> want. We use a dummy board for the first print, and then print our
> first
> production board.
>=20
> Personally I think you could get away with a .015" aperture if you
> are
> dealing with a .0315" pitch product. Even if they undercut your
> stencil,
> you should be fine.
>=20
> Good luck....
>=20
> Steve A
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: My Nguyen [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Tuesday,December 11,2001 11:43 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [TN] Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Problem description:
> >
> > Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.
> > Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball
> > height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)
> > 5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure
> > modules came from opening soder join or no solder join
> > at all. As we inspect the screen printing process (we
> > use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning
> > rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we
> > found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has very
> > little solder or no solder at all.
> >
> > Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape aperture,
> > 13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.
> >
> > We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then
> > we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce the
> > stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or
> > resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or
> > many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,
> > short-life, etc)
> >
> > What would be your solution?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Stacy
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at <http://shopping.yahoo.com/>
> > or bid at <http://auctions.yahoo.com/>
> >
> >
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> > -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
> text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
> message: SET
> > Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org <http://www.ipc.org/> >
> On-Line Resources & Databases >
> > E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>)
> for
> > additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
> > ext.5315
> >
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> > -------
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:49:52 -0800
> From: Mark Mazzoli <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: porosity of gold plating on nickel
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"; format=3Dflowed
>=20
> Hi Kris,
> Try IPC TM-650 2.3.24.2 Nitric Vapor Test. That's the easiest one
> I'm
> aware of.
> Here's a link: <http://www.ipc.org/html/2.3.24.2.pdf>
>=20
> Mark Mazzoli
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> At 02:30 PM 12/13/01 -0500, you wrote:
>=20
> Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of determining
> porosity of gold
> plating over nickel on a PCB?
>=20
>=20
> Kristopher J. Keating
> Technical Service Engineer
> Circuit-Wise, Inc.
> 400 Sackett Point Rd.
> North Haven, CT 06473
> Tel. (203) 281-6511
> Fax (203) 287-8409
>=20
> =09
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using
> LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with
> following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
> message: SET
> Technet NOMAIL
> Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org
> <http://www.ipc.org/> > On-Line Resources & Databases >
> E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (
> <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>) for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> =09
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> -------
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:44:57 -0700
> From: Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>=20
> Hey Stacy,
>=20
> It sounds as though on paper, your process is OK. Just to fill you
> in on
> aspect ratio, that is aperture width/stencil thickness. This is a
> good rule
> of thumb for rectangular apertures such as for fine pitch
> components. For
> small circular or square apertures most people use the area aspect
> ratio
> which is aperture area/wall area. The area aspect ratio should be
> above
> 66. Thus on a .005" thick stencil with a .0135" square aperture you
> are
> looking at (.0135*.0135)/((.0135*.005)*4) =3D .675.
> Actually the area aspect ratio for a .0135" round aperture is the
> same as
> that for a square aperture, yet release on the square aperture has
> generally
> been proven to be better (don't forget a .002" or .003" radius on
> the
> corners).
>=20
> Anyway my point was going to be that I had the exact same apertures
> ordered
> on one particular project, and the apertures all clogged up (luckily
> we
> caught them at the visual step). It seems the apertures were
> severely
> undersized (more like .0122" x .0122"). So are your apertures
> really
> 0135"?
>=20
> As Kathy mentioned, kneed or condition your paste. The paste may
> take a few
> prints to fully mix and provide the thixotropic characteristics that
> you
> want. We use a dummy board for the first print, and then print our
> first
> production board.
>=20
> Personally I think you could get away with a .015" aperture if you
> are
> dealing with a .0315" pitch product. Even if they undercut your
> stencil,
> you should be fine.
>=20
> Good luck....
>=20
> Steve A
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: My Nguyen [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Tuesday,December 11,2001 11:43 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [TN] Inefficient solder on Toshiba micro BGA
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Problem description:
> >
> > Been happening on Rambus - part number tc59rm81xmb.
> > Ball diametter: 0.5 mm; ball pitch: 0.8 mm, ball
> > height: 0.4 mm. Pad size: 0.3 mm (11.5 mils)
> > 5-10% of the time (we run huge amount of them) failure
> > modules came from opening soder join or no solder join
> > at all. As we inspect the screen printing process (we
> > use 5 mils stencil - Dek screenprinting, cleaning
> > rate: 2 per print, cleaning cycle Wet-Vacuum/Dry), we
> > found un-event solder deposit. Some pad even has very
> > little solder or no solder at all.
> >
> > Stencil is electro-polish; Diamond shape aperture,
> > 13.5 mils open used trapezoid shape.
> >
> > We afraid that if we open the apperture bigger, then
> > we may have bridging or solder ball. If we reduce the
> > stencil to 4 mils to reduce the blockage or
> > resistance, then we may have in-efficient solder or
> > many other problem relating thin stencil (damage,
> > short-life, etc)
> >
> > What would be your solution?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Stacy
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at <http://shopping.yahoo.com/>
> > or bid at <http://auctions.yahoo.com/>
> >
> >
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> > -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
> text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
> message: SET
> > Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org <http://www.ipc.org/> >
> On-Line Resources & Databases >
> > E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>)
> for
> > additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
> > ext.5315
> >
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> > -------
>=20
> =09
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
> text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org <http://www.ipc.org/> >
> On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>) for
> additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> =09
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> -------
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:10:13 -0500
> From: Tony Steinke <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: .050 PWB
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>=20
> Darrel,
> I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but almost all board shops should
> be able
> to manufacture you construction with their eyes closed.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Darrel Therriault <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:41 PM
> Subject: [TN] .050 PWB
>=20
>=20
> > Technet.....
> >
> > PWB designer and fab folks........We are considering building an
> .050"
> > PWB with 2 oz Cu, 6-8 layers.
> >
> > Any heartburn or horror stories with this design or is this within
> > normal capability from the design and fab perspective??
> >
> > DT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Darrel Therriault
> > VP, Mfg. Operations
> > INCEP Technologies, Inc
> > (858)547-9925 223
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
> text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
> message: SET
> Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org <http://www.ipc.org/> >
> On-Line Resources & Databases >
> E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>)
> for
> additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> >
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> -------
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:10:06 -0500
> From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: .050 PWB
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>=20
> Tony's right unless
> you do something "unadvisable" such as an unbalanced construction,
> isolated
> traces without thieving . . .
>=20
> Hans
> Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Hans M. Hinners
> Electronics Engineer
> Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
> 226 Cochran Street
> Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
>=20
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>=20
> Com: (478) 926 - 5224
> Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
> DSN Prefix: 468
>=20
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Steinke [ <mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 4:10 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] .050 PWB
>=20
>=20
> Darrel,
> I don't mean to sound sarcastic, but almost all board shops should
> be able
> to manufacture you construction with their eyes closed.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Darrel Therriault <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 1:41 PM
> Subject: [TN] .050 PWB
>=20
>=20
> > Technet.....
> >
> > PWB designer and fab folks........We are considering building an
> .050"
> > PWB with 2 oz Cu, 6-8 layers.
> >
> > Any heartburn or horror stories with this design or is this within
> > normal capability from the design and fab perspective??
> >
> > DT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Darrel Therriault
> > VP, Mfg. Operations
> > INCEP Technologies, Inc
> > (858)547-9925 223
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> -------
> > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
> text in
> > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following
> message: SET
> Technet NOMAIL
> > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org <http://www.ipc.org/> >
> On-Line Resources & Databases >
> E-mail Archives
> > Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>)
> for
> additional
> > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> >
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> -------
>=20
> =09
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> --
> -----
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
> text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:
> SET
> Technet NOMAIL
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> Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>) for
> additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700
> ext.5315
> =09
> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> --
> -----
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:25:07 -0600
> From: Mike Clemente <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: PCB Density Study/Design Quoting
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DUS-ASCII
>=20
> Hello everyone,
>=20
> I need to find an accurate PCB density study method and also an
> efficient method of quoting PCB designs.
>=20
> Has anyone used the density study in IPC-2221? Is it accurate for
> Thru-hole and SMT? Are there other methods out there for density =
study?
>=20
> Also, does anyone have any specifics or know where to obtain
> information on Quoting PCB design from Schematic to Layout, to =
Manufacture
> and Assembly of PCB?
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Mike Clemente, C.I.D.
> Sr. PCB Design Specialist
> dZinit Applied Technologies
> Tel: 847-545-8170
> Fax: 847-545-8175
> Email: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:27:57 -0800
> From: Karla Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: photoplotters
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"
>=20
> I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and would appreciate
> any
> input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6 year old Barco
> Crescent
> 30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania. If any of you
> have any
> comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate it.
>=20
>=20
> Karla Thompson
> CAM Technician
> Electronic Controls Design, Inc
> Tel: (503) 829-9108
> email: [log in to unmask]
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> I will be back on 12/17/01.
>=20
> Regards,
> Jong
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 07:40:17 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Standards for Naming Signals on Schematics.
MIME-Version: 1.0
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boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C18711.20DB95E0"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------_=_NextPart_001_01C18711.20DB95E0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
hi,
try ansi y14.5, y14.15, y32.2, y32.14, and y32.16. this should answer all your needs plus some.
phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Bellamy, Dennis W. UTRC [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:43 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Standards for Naming Signals on Schematics.
Is there a standard practice defined by the IPC, IEEE (or anyone else) for naming signals when creating schematics?
Thanks,
Dennis W. Bellamy, C.I.D.
United Technologies Research Center
East Hartford, CT. 06108
[log in to unmask]
------_=_NextPart_001_01C18711.20DB95E0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<TITLE>Standards for Naming Signals on Schematics.</TITLE>
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=208023915-17122001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>hi,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=208023915-17122001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=208023915-17122001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>try
ansi y14.5, y14.15, y32.2, y32.14, and y32.16. this should answer all your
needs plus some.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=208023915-17122001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=208023915-17122001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>phil</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Bellamy, Dennis W. UTRC
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 17, 2001 6:43
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Standards for Naming
Signals on Schematics.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Courier New" size=2>Is there a standard practice defined by the
IPC, IEEE (or anyone else) for naming signals when creating schematics?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dennis
W. Bellamy, C.I.D.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>United Technologies
Research Center</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>East Hartford, CT.
06108</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>[log in to unmask]</FONT>
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C18711.20DB95E0--
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:51:54 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Saponified Wash
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Marc
Saponification means making soap. This is done by boiling vegetable
oils, containing fatty acids, with a strong alkali. A chemical reaction
occurs, producing a soap which is water-soluble. As many fluxes contain
carboxylic acids (including rosin) which, like oils, are not
water-soluble. They are therefore reacted with an alkali (usually, but
not exclusively, organic amines) to make them so, and the resultant
"soap" is removed by vigourous water-washing and rinsing. Some, but not
all "no-clean" fluxes are saponifiable. It is a process that needs
careful qualification and process control (the saponifier solution, for
example, requires close temperature control, too hot being just as bad,
or worse, as too cold).
Commercial saponifiers also usually contain organic solvents, to
reinforce the action. As stated, they are highly alkaline and require
good health and safety precautions, especially as the most common active
product, monoethanolamine, is somewhat volatile at the working
temperature and is quite toxic. It is therefore a process to be avoided
by the light-hearted who cannot or will not take the necessary
precautions.
Personally, I recommend water-soluble chemistry over trying to clean
something which is formulated just to avoid the need for cleaning.
E-mail me off-list if you wish more details.
Brian
Marc Cowen wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am after some advice regarding saponified wash being used with a no-clean
> process.
> What is a saponified wash?
> With regards to not using a wash with a no-clean process is it also common
> practice to use this type of process flow (solder using no-clean flux then
> through a saponified wash).
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Best regards
>
> Marc Cowen.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
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> Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:05:01 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kris Keating <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: sure hope jong enjoyed that vacation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jong s kadesch [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:58 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 14 Dec 2001
> - Special issue (#2001-778))
>
> At 02:57 PM 12/14/01 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:57:26 -0600
> Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
> Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
> From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: TechNet Digest - 14 Dec 2001 - Special issue (#2001-778)
> To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]>
>
> There are 12 messages totalling 927 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics in this special issue:
>
> 1. IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
> 2. Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... (4)
> 3. EPA TRI reporting of lead usage
> 4. photoplotters (2)
> 5. Homeplate apertures, how to use them (3)
> 6. Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... What Did Charles Say?
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following
> text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message:
> SET Technet NOMAIL
> Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org <http://www.ipc.org/> >
> On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site ( <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>) for
> additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:33:41 -0700
> From: Rick Howieson <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C184B4.B57E7D70"
>
> 1710 is more of a supplier profile and not an audit guideline. It
> will give you an idea of what a board shop can accomplish compared to your
> design but does not get into how a fabricator controls their process.
> Rick
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen R. Gregory [
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:09 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] IPC Supplier Audit Guidelines
>
>
> Hi Jana,
>
>
> Go to www.ipc.org <http://www.ipc.org/>, then click
> on Online Resources and Databases, then scroll all the way down to IPC
> Documents Available for Download and click on that.
>
>
> You will find:
>
>
> IPC-1710 OEM
> Standard for Printed Board Manufacturers'
> Qualification Profile
>
>
> Developed by the OEM council of the IPC, the MQP
> sets the standard for assessing PWB manufacturers capabilities and allows
> PWB manufacturers to more easily satisfy customer requirements.
>
>
> IPC-1720
> Assembly Qualification Profile Developed by the OEM
> council of the IPC, IPC-1720 categorized an electronic assembly
> manufacturer's capabilities and supplies the OEM customer with detailed,
> substantive information.
>
>
> IPC-1730A
> Laminator Qualifier Profile
> Are you a laminate manufacturer looking to provide
> your customers with a consistent, detailed report on your facility(s)?
> IPC-1730A is the one tool laminate manufacturers can use to provide
> current and potential customers with a profile of their facilities. By
> completing this questionnaire, laminators can provide information on
> materials supplied, approvals and certifications, testing available,
> equipment capabilities and more!
>
>
> IPC-1731
> Strategic Raw Materials Supplier Qualification
> Profile (SRMSQP)
> Suppliers of raw materials to laminate manufacture
> now have an industry approved questionaire to supply current and potential
> customers with a self assessment of their facility(s). IPC-1731 gives
> suppliers of raw materials the opportunity to create a profile of their
> manufacturing facility(s) that will be consistent with those developed by
> similar suppliers. Using the MS Word template enables easy creation and
> maintenance of the file(s) and provide their customers with an electronic
> file for their records.
>
>
> -Steve Gregory-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Greetings All,
>
>
> I have in the back of my mind, a dusty place indeed,
> that IPC had a document
> containing Supplier Audit guidelines. I have surfed
> the IPC site and do not
> find such a document in the Technical Publications
> pdf. Does IPC have
> something like this, or ... I'm losing it!
> Thanks for the help,
> Jana Carraway
> Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:27:33 -0800
> From: "Barmuta, Mike" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Steve:
> Take a look at MIL-S-8516 Sealing Compound, Polysulfide
> Rubber, Electrical
> Connectors and Electrical Systems, Chemically Cured. I think
> this is more in
> line with what you are doing than 8802.
> Polysulfde compounds have been around a long time, however
> for electrical
> applications I think most have been replaced by urethanes
> and silicones.
>
>
>
> Good Luck !
>
> Michael Barmuta
>
> Staff Engineer
>
> Fluke Corp.
>
> Everett WA
>
> 425-446-6076
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen R. Gregory [ <mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:26 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>
>
> Hi All!!
>
> ....tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's
> Friday dance! hehehe)
>
>
> I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction
> where I could find
> some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802,
> class A-2, with 50
> plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...
>
> This is something that is called out on a drawing for a
> board that's using
> this material to strain relief two small battery cables that
> are installed
> on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about
> polysulfide
> compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under
> MIL-S-8802, I find
> all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but
> still nothing
> alumina filled...
>
> Any help will be much appreciated
>
> -Steve Gregory-
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:30:16 -0500
> From: Gregg Klawson <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> You can always buy the alumina powder and polysulfide
> compound separately
> and mix 'em together. I've seen this done successfully with
> various
> adhesive materials, not sure if we ever did it with a
> polysulfide though.
>
> Good luck,
> Gregg
>
> At 09:26 AM 12/14/01, Stephen R. Gregory wrote:
>
>
> Hi All!!
>
> ...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd
> it's Friday dance! hehehe)
>
> I was wondering if someone could point me in a
> direction where I could
> find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per
> MIL-S-8802, class A-2,
> with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide
> powder...
>
> This is something that is called out on a drawing
> for a board that's using
> this material to strain relief two small battery
> cables that are installed
> on the board...I've searched and find a bunch of
> stuff about polysulfide
> compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search
> under MIL-S-8802, I
> find all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel
> tanks, but still
> nothing alumina filled...
>
> Any help will be much appreciated
>
> -Steve Gregory-
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:56:31 -0500
> From: Phil Nutting <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: EPA TRI reporting of lead usage
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> This topic (lead usage and disposal reporting) got bounced
> around
> several months ago. I know the IPC has spoken to the
> go'ment about the
> ramifications this ruling brings and it is my understanding
> that the
> feds turned a deaf ear to them. So, to that end, has anyone
> attempted
> to figure out what we (as small OEMs building electronic
> devices that
> include circuit boards) are supposed to submit to the feds
> in the way of
> reporting? I've attempted to wade through the EPA documents
> and wish
> there was a "Cliff Notes" version so I can figure out what
> we are
> supposed to do without having to hire an expensive
> consultant.
>
> Have I just opened a can of worms?
>
> Phil Nutting
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:58:18 -0800
> From: Karla Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: photoplotters
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks for the replies.
> Anyone have an EIE plotter? Specifically the RP200 line?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Hargreaves [ <mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 04:28
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: photoplotters
>
>
> Hi Karla,
> We currently have a 3-4 year old CSI (guess it's Gretag now)
> plotter. We're
> happy with the images, speed and up-time.
>
> Regards,
> Mark Hargreaves
> EMDS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karla Thompson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:28 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] photoplotters
>
> I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and
> would appreciate
> any
> input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6
> year old Barco
> Crescent
> 30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and Barco/Mania.
> If any of you
> have any
> comments on those, or any others (?) I'd appreciate
> it.
>
>
> Karla Thompson
> CAM Technician
> Electronic Controls Design, Inc
> Tel: (503) 829-9108
> email: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> -----
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC
> using LISTSERV
> 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask]
> with following
> text in
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> following message:
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> <http://www.ipc.org/> > On-Line Resources &
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> Please visit IPC web site (
> <http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm>) for
> additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at
> [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> -----
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> -----
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> ext.5315
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> -----
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:45:47 -0500
> From: Brock Hunter <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: photoplotters
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Karla,
>
> We have an EIE RP-508 and have only been down once in the
> past 14 months. Overall we are quite
> pleased with it. Initially it was intended to supplement our
> CSI FIRE 9300 and quickly took
> over all the work, typically 130 - 150 plots ( 24 X 30 ) per
> day.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brock
>
> Karla Thompson wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the replies.
> > Anyone have an EIE plotter? Specifically the RP200 line?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Hargreaves [ <mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
> > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 04:28
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: photoplotters
> >
> > Hi Karla,
> > We currently have a 3-4 year old CSI (guess it's Gretag
> now) plotter. We're
> > happy with the images, speed and up-time.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mark Hargreaves
> > EMDS
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Karla Thompson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:28 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: [TN] photoplotters
> >
> > I'm in the process of looking at Photoplotters and
> would appreciate
> > any
> > input any of you may have. We currently have a 5-6
> year old Barco
> > Crescent
> > 30. I'm looking at EIE, Orbotech, and
> Barco/Mania. If any of you
> > have any
> > comments on those, or any others (?) I'd
> appreciate it.
> >
> > Karla Thompson
> > CAM Technician
> > Electronic Controls Design, Inc
> > Tel: (503) 829-9108
> > email: [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
> --
> Brock Hunter [log in to unmask]
> Engineering Mgr.
> Dynamic & Proto Circuits
> TEL (905) 643-9900
> FAX (905) 643-9437
> <http://www.dapc.com/>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:56:32 -0500
> From: Jeff Seeger <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> "d. terstegge" wrote:
> >
> > snip <
> > How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have suggestions
> on how to make an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas about easier
> ways to order a stencil according to my spec ?
>
>
> Wouldn't this be handled best in design? That way
> it can
> be a part of the footprint and happen "by itself".
>
> Most of the dense boards I've seen lately are very
> difficult
> to determine which pads relate to each other with
> any degree
> of certainty. Silkscreens are so compromised as to
> not be
> reliable indicators.
>
> Just a thought,
> --
>
> Jeff Seeger Applied CAD
> Knowledge Inc
> Chief Technical Officer Tyngsboro, MA
> 01879
> jseeger "at" appliedcad "dot" com 978
> 649 9800
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:17:25 -0600
> From: Charles Caswell <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here . We use
> the same
> stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you
> will find the
> stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The
> polysulfide IS fuel
> tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx. equal
> parts of
> AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have
> the same
> customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some
> info, if
> not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.
> Charles Caswell
> Process Lead, PCB
> Frontier Electronic Systems
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen R. Gregory
> Sent: Fri 12/14/2001 8:26 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Cc:
> Subject: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
>
>
> Hi All!!
>
> ...tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd
> it's Friday
> dance! hehehe)
>
> I was wondering if someone could point me in a
> direction where I
> could find some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per
> MIL-S-8802,
> class A-2, with 50 plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum
> oxide powder...
>
> This is something that is called out on a drawing
> for a board
> that's using this material to strain relief two small
> battery cables
> that are installed on the board...I've searched and find a
> bunch of
> stuff about polysulfide compounds, but nothing alumina
> filled. If I
> search under MIL-S-8802, I find all kinds of polysulfide
> sealers for jet
> fuel tanks, but still nothing alumina filled...
>
> Any help will be much appreciated
>
> -Steve Gregory-
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:38:40 EST
> From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="part1_16b.5ac614f.294baf40_boundary"
>
> Hi Charles,
>
> Sorry, but I didn't understand a word you said...
>
> -Steve Gregory-
>
> In a message dated 12/14/01 1:17:12 PM Central Standard
> Time, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> U3RldmUsIEkgYW0gYXQgaG9tZSBzbyBJIGRvbid0IGhhdmUgdGhlIGluZm8gaGVyZSAuIFdlIH
> Vz
>
> ZSB0aGUgc2FtZQ0Kc3R1ZmYgdG8gYm9uZCBjb21wb25lbnRzIG9uIHNvbWUgYm9hcmRzLiBJIG
> Rv
>
> bid0IHRoaW5rIHlvdSB3aWxsIGZpbmQgdGhlDQpzdHVmZiBhbHJlYWR5IG1peGVkIHdpdGggdG
> hl
>
> IEFsTzIuIEkgY291bGRuJ3QuIFRoZSBwb2x5c3VsZmlkZSBJUyBmdWVsDQp0YW5rIHNlYWxhbn
> Qu
>
> IFdlIG1peCBpdCBpbiBzbWFsbCBiYXRjaGVzIHdpdGggYXBwcm94LiBlcXVhbCBwYXJ0cyBvZg
> 0K
>
> QWxPMiBhbmQgdGhlIGJhc2UgbWF0ZXJpYWwgYnkgd2VpZ2h0LiBJIHdvbmRlciBpZiAgd2UgaG
> F2
>
> ZSB0aGUgc2FtZQ0KY3VzdG9tZXIuIEkgd2lsbCB0cnkgdG8gZ2V0IGludG8gd29yayB0b21tb3
> Jv
>
> dyBhbmQgc2VuZCBzb21lIGluZm8sIGlmDQpub3QgdGhlbiBvbiBNb24uIEJ5IHRoZSB3YXksIH
> Ro
>
> ZSBzdHVmZiBzdGlua3MuDQpDaGFybGVzIENhc3dlbGwNClByb2Nlc3MgTGVhZCwgUENCDQpGcm
> 9u
>
> dGllciBFbGVjdHJvbmljIFN5c3RlbXMNCg0KCS0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tIA
> 0K
>
> CUZyb206IFN0ZXBoZW4gUi4gR3JlZ29yeSANCglTZW50OiBGcmkgMTIvMTQvMjAwMSA4OjI2IE
> FN
>
> IA0KCVRvOiBUZWNoTmV0QElQQy5PUkcgDQoJQ2M6IA0KCVN1YmplY3Q6IFtUTl0gQWx1bWluYS
> Bm
>
> aWxsZWQgUG9seXN1bGZpZGUgY29tcG91bmQuLi4NCgkNCgkNCglIaSBBbGwhISANCgkNCgkuLi
> 50
>
> YXBwaXR5LXRhcHBpdHktdGFwcGl0eS4uLihkb2luJyBteSB0aGFuayBnYXdkIGl0J3MgRnJpZG
> F5
>
> DQpkYW5jZSEgaGVoZWhlKSANCgkNCglJIHdhcyB3b25kZXJpbmcgaWYgc29tZW9uZSBjb3VsZC
> Bw
>
> b2ludCBtZSBpbiBhIGRpcmVjdGlvbiB3aGVyZSBJDQpjb3VsZCBmaW5kIHNvbWUgYWx1bWluYS
> Bm
>
> aWxsZWQgcG9seXN1bGZpZGUgY29tcG91bmQsIHBlciBNSUwtUy04ODAyLA0KY2xhc3MgQS0yLC
> B3
>
> aXRoIDUwIHBsdXMgb3IgbWludXMgMTAlLCAzMjUgbWVzaCBhbHVtaW51bSBveGlkZSBwb3dkZX
> Iu
>
> Li4gDQoJDQoJVGhpcyBpcyBzb21ldGhpbmcgdGhhdCBpcyBjYWxsZWQgb3V0IG9uIGEgZHJhd2
> lu
>
> ZyBmb3IgYSBib2FyZA0KdGhhdCdzIHVzaW5nIHRoaXMgbWF0ZXJpYWwgdG8gc3RyYWluIHJlbG
> ll
>
> ZiB0d28gc21hbGwgYmF0dGVyeSBjYWJsZXMNCnRoYXQgYXJlIGluc3RhbGxlZCBvbiB0aGUgYm
> 9h
>
> cmQuLi5JJ3ZlIHNlYXJjaGVkIGFuZCBmaW5kIGEgYnVuY2ggb2YNCnN0dWZmIGFib3V0IHBvbH
> lz
>
> dWxmaWRlIGNvbXBvdW5kcywgYnV0IG5vdGhpbmcgYWx1bWluYSBmaWxsZWQuIElmIEkNCnNlYX
> Jj
>
> aCB1bmRlciBNSUwtUy04ODAyLCBJIGZpbmQgYWxsIGtpbmRzIG9mIHBvbHlzdWxmaWRlIHNlYW
> xl
>
> cnMgZm9yIGpldA0KZnVlbCB0YW5rcywgYnV0IHN0aWxsIG5vdGhpbmcgYWx1bWluYSBmaWxsZW
> Qu
>
> Li4gDQoJDQoJQW55IGhlbHAgd2lsbCBiZSBtdWNoIGFwcHJlY2lhdGVkIA0KCQ0KCS1TdGV2ZS
> BH
> cmVnb3J5LSANCgkNCg0K
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:24:28 +0100
> From: "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0068_01C184E5.B6848580"
>
> I agree, but for subcontracting that's a situation that I
> can only dream of. The reality is that you get Gerber data (one to one
> with the pads) that you need to edit yourself, or you need to make clear
> instructions for the company that makes the stencils so they can do the
> Gerber-editing.
>
> Daan Terstegge
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jeff Seeger <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 6:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [TN] Homeplate apertures, how to use
> them
>
>
> "d. terstegge" wrote:
> >
> > snip <
> > How do others deal with this ? Mabe you have
> suggestions on how to make an easier-to-use specification ? Or ideas
> about easier ways to order a stencil according to my spec ?
>
>
>
>
> Wouldn't this be handled best in design?
> That way it can
> be a part of the footprint and happen "by
> itself".
>
>
> Most of the dense boards I've seen lately
> are very difficult
> to determine which pads relate to each other
> with any degree
> of certainty. Silkscreens are so
> compromised as to not be
> reliable indicators.
>
>
> Just a thought,
> --
>
>
> Jeff Seeger Applied
> CAD Knowledge Inc
> Chief Technical Officer
> Tyngsboro, MA 01879
> jseeger "at" appliedcad "dot" com
> 978 649 9800
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC
> using LISTSERV 1.8d
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> with following text in
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> To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the
> following message: SET Technet NOMAIL
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> <http://www.ipc.org> > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (
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> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:46:45 -0600
> From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Homeplate apertures, how to use them
>
> Some things you can do include editing Gerber (dumb xy data)
> or ODB++
> (intellegent) data using a CAM package as Valor. This
> package, as an
> example, provides clearly identifiable graphic information
> concerning pads,
> with special features, and their locations. All this is
> provided you have
> built in design rules as ERF's (external reference files).
>
> Also, if the stencil maker is using a similar package it may
> easily
> translate requirements into an AOI system. If so, AOI is an
> answer I've used
> many times, when applicable. Don't know why this isn't done
> more. Asked this
> group some time back but no responses.
>
> MoonMan
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:04:03 EST
> From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound... What Did
> Charles Say?
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="part1_147.65a01ae.294bc343_boundary"
>
> Thanks Gary, Genny, and Dave!
>
> I wonder why I got Charles email all garbled like that? I
> get those every once in a while...I was attributing it before to the email
> being sent using a foreign language character set, obviously that wasn't
> the case if all of you could read it...strange stuff?
>
> Thanks again, and thank you Charles!
>
> -Steve Gregory-
>
> P.S. Charles, I would appreciate it if you would send me the
> info you have...next week would be fine, and most appreciated! Also, I
> don't think we have the same customer...
>
> In a message dated 12/14/01 2:19:37 PM Central Standard
> Time, [log in to unmask],
> [log in to unmask], and [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
>
>
> From: "Charles Caswell" < [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Subject: Re: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide
> compound...
> Date: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:28 AM
>
> Steve, I am at home so I don't have the info here .
> We use the same stuff to bond components on some boards. I don't think you
> will find the stuff already mixed with the AlO2. I couldn't. The
> polysulfide IS fuel tank sealant. We mix it in small batches with approx.
> equal parts of AlO2 and the base material by weight. I wonder if we have
> the same customer. I will try to get into work tommorow and send some
> info, if not then on Mon. By the way, the stuff stinks.
> Charles Caswell
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I will be back on 12/17/01.
>
> Regards,
> Jong
>
>
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:44:27 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: jong s kadesch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Apology about vacation notice
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Technetters,
My apology to you all to send out my vacation notice. I exclude TechNet
from my e-mail setting, but it didn't work out the way I wanted. I was
only intend to inform people that i work with about my absence. I'm truly
sorry for the mess.
Jong Kadesch
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:58:50 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Cleaning after plasma
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Good morning all.
I am dealing with a very hot manufacturing, er, um... challenge, right now.
On one of our assemblies, we are having a hell of a time getting our
Humiseal 1B31 to stick to the assembly surface (solder mask). One of the
remedial measures I am trying for work in progress, whilst I work on the
root cause, is to plasma treat the assemblies: 750 mTorr, 100 watts, argon
plasma, 5 minutes. Our plasma expert does not think these settings will
have detrimental effects on the assembly. I am also looking at the mask
and other process related possibilities.
Here is my problem, well actually a problem within a problem, anyway....
The plasma cleaner is in our microelectronics clean room. Depending on
where it is in the process, some of the assemblies have silicone RTV on
them and the microelectronics folks are rightly concerned with silicone
cross contamination. This cleaner is used for cleaning die prior to
bonding and silicone contamination would be a *big* problem.
The question: what kind of cleaning protocol would you recommend on a
plasma chamber to get any outgassed products and how would you verify no
cross contamination?
Dow suggests using their OS2 cleaner. I am inclined to use acetone and
then run an oxygen plasma after that to ash any organics.
Suggestions?
Doug Pauls
Rockwell Collins
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:14:57 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Doug:
Clean with Acetone, then ash the organics?
I would suggest ashing the organics first, to convert any Silicone to Silica,
then a VERY alkaline water based cleaner, pH 13+, to convert the Silica to
soluble silicates.
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:38:40 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Siemen - S25 machine
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello all,
We are seriously evaluating the next generation
platform for our facility. We mainly make memory
products (RIMM, DIMM(168-200), DDR, SODIMM144/72). It
could be considered as high mix, high volume. We have
other as big as 20K/W.O down to 5-10 units/W.O,
however, mainly they are above 1000 units/W.O.
Currently, we use the combination of Dek-CP (65,643,7)
and QP2/3. However, due to the changes in technology
and our limited space, we have to look for if there is
any better combination out there that could better fit
us. CP and QP are great, however, for the ratio of
50/10 (50 small resister/cap per 10 regular to fine
pitch ICs) cause too much waiting time on our lines.
(Averagely, CP7 finish a panel of 8 up within 25-30
seconds while the 2 QP3 combination take up to 1
minutes or more to finish one panel).
Simemen - S25 - 6/12 combination comes to our mind.
The presentations are very impressive. However, we
would like to hear your realistic opinions about the
S25 6/12 you have known or use of.
These are the following we are looking at:
1. Service: Engineering knowledge, commitement,
response.
2. Parts: Flexibility, Avaiability, Shipping, Price,
Update/Improvement.
3. Machine: Accuracy (For how long), Life,
Maintenance, Usage Friendly, Breakdown, etc.
4. Software: User Friendly, Line Monitor, Improvement,
Secure etc.
5. The Innovation, the growth rate of Siemen and how
do they communicate with you to keep you up with what
they are doing. How do they handle their customer
during up/down economy.
6. what else should I consider for this possible
change?
Changing the production line are very serious. As we
change, we would be stuck with it for at least 5-10
years. Technology is changing rapidly, one mistake
could lead our business straight to ... hell.
However, sticking with an old one could hold us down
as well.
Thanks a million in advance for your help!
Stacy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:38:53 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Tuan Bui <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FW: double sided BGAs Re-work
Greetings,
You can rework any BGA on either side of the board. The baking procedures
must be follow to ensure no moisture is in the packages during the reflow
processes. using the rework station (Air-vac) to remove the BGA, clean all
pads and using mini stencil to reinstall the new BGA ( mini stencil can be
eliminate by using No-Clean flux paste) The best reflow method is using your
convection oven by placing the board on the rail or off the belt. Placing
the new BGA on top and reflow thru the convection oven and the other on the
bottom. With liquid surface tension of the reflow solder will be more than
enough to hold the bottom BGA in place during reflow. You can inspect for
short with X-ray at 0 degree and openned pins at 75 degree tilt.
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:05:20 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
hi,
i'd be inclined to not let you set foot in my microelectronics room.
phil
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:59 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Cleaning after plasma
Good morning all.
I am dealing with a very hot manufacturing, er, um... challenge, right now.
On one of our assemblies, we are having a hell of a time getting our
Humiseal 1B31 to stick to the assembly surface (solder mask). One of the
remedial measures I am trying for work in progress, whilst I work on the
root cause, is to plasma treat the assemblies: 750 mTorr, 100 watts, argon
plasma, 5 minutes. Our plasma expert does not think these settings will
have detrimental effects on the assembly. I am also looking at the mask
and other process related possibilities.
Here is my problem, well actually a problem within a problem, anyway....
The plasma cleaner is in our microelectronics clean room. Depending on
where it is in the process, some of the assemblies have silicone RTV on
them and the microelectronics folks are rightly concerned with silicone
cross contamination. This cleaner is used for cleaning die prior to
bonding and silicone contamination would be a *big* problem.
The question: what kind of cleaning protocol would you recommend on a
plasma chamber to get any outgassed products and how would you verify no
cross contamination?
Dow suggests using their OS2 cleaner. I am inclined to use acetone and
then run an oxygen plasma after that to ash any organics.
Suggestions?
Doug Pauls
Rockwell Collins
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:40:11 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jana Carraway <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
In-Reply-To: <45EC695FE212D311A49D0000D11BAF7C053C6CDC@MBRC02>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I'm thinking that same thing! Can you outsource the plasma cleaning?
Jana Carraway
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Crepeau, Phil
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:05 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Cleaning after plasma
hi,
i'd be inclined to not let you set foot in my microelectronics room.
phil
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:59 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Cleaning after plasma
Good morning all.
I am dealing with a very hot manufacturing, er, um... challenge, right now.
On one of our assemblies, we are having a hell of a time getting our
Humiseal 1B31 to stick to the assembly surface (solder mask). One of the
remedial measures I am trying for work in progress, whilst I work on the
root cause, is to plasma treat the assemblies: 750 mTorr, 100 watts, argon
plasma, 5 minutes. Our plasma expert does not think these settings will
have detrimental effects on the assembly. I am also looking at the mask
and other process related possibilities.
Here is my problem, well actually a problem within a problem, anyway....
The plasma cleaner is in our microelectronics clean room. Depending on
where it is in the process, some of the assemblies have silicone RTV on
them and the microelectronics folks are rightly concerned with silicone
cross contamination. This cleaner is used for cleaning die prior to
bonding and silicone contamination would be a *big* problem.
The question: what kind of cleaning protocol would you recommend on a
plasma chamber to get any outgassed products and how would you verify no
cross contamination?
Dow suggests using their OS2 cleaner. I am inclined to use acetone and
then run an oxygen plasma after that to ash any organics.
Suggestions?
Doug Pauls
Rockwell Collins
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:47:57 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dennis Manowski <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Pull Strength Specification
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello Folks:
Does anyone know of an accepted standard for pull
strength for a .025" through hole solder joint in an
.062 board ? Also, is there an accepted strength spec
for the hole barrel to the PC board, meaning pulling
the hole barrel out of the board ?
Thanks,
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:30:31 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Pull Strength Specification
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_e6.20145f27.294fafe7_boundary"
--part1_e6.20145f27.294fafe7_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
We used to have pull strength as a part of rework simulation in the board
specification, but the fillet on the bottom side acts as a little anchor and
prevents the solder plug from pulling out. After many years of having no
failures that part of the test was dropped.
I could go back and look at 55110 A, B or C prior to rev 5 to find out the
values to be met, if you really need them.
Susan Mansilla
Robisan Lab
--part1_e6.20145f27.294fafe7_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>We used to have pull strength as a part of rework simulation in the board specification, but the fillet on the bottom side acts as a little anchor and
<BR>prevents the solder plug from pulling out. After many years of having no
<BR>failures that part of the test was dropped.
<BR>
<BR>I could go back and look at 55110 A, B or C prior to rev 5 to find out the
<BR>values to be met, if you really need them.
<BR>
<BR>Susan Mansilla
<BR>Robisan Lab</FONT></HTML>
--part1_e6.20145f27.294fafe7_boundary--
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:44:48 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Sauer, Steven T." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Good Afternoon Doug,
My initial instinct is to go right along with Phil and Jana, silicone
contamination is an ugly beast. But if you're hellbent on plasma, there is
a company in Indy not far from good 'ol NAC (north of Raymond and east of
I-65), called Dynaloy, Inc.
They manufacture products for the removal of silicones (along with acrylics,
epoxies and urethanes). I evaluated several of their products (with good
results) after I had poor results using OS20 as a cleaning solvent after
spray applicaiton of 1205 silicone primer and 3-1765 silicone coating (both
are Dow Corning products).
Here's the info:
Dynaloy, Inc.
1910 S. State Avenue
PO Box 33609
Indianapolis, IN 46203
www.dynaloy.com
POC Lauri Kirby, Technical Sales Specialist
email: [log in to unmask]
(317) 788-5694 or (800) 669-5709
Good luck!
Steve Sauer
(former NAC partner in crime)
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:04:00 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mark Hargreaves <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: IPC-D-320a
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi All,
Is anyone familiar with this spec (IPC-D-350a)? What's it cover?
Many Thanks,
Mark Hargreaves
EMDS, Inc
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:07:50 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Lou Hart <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Compunetix, Inc.
Subject: Solder paste evaluation
TechNetters, our production people want to investigate an alternative to
the solder paste we are now using. My proposal was to perform a designed
experiment to see if the candidate paste is better than, worse than, or
equivalent to the present paste.
Factors to consider in an experiment could, in my opinion, include the
pastes themselves, solderability preservative, lead finish, stencil life,
etc.
A big question than comes to my mind is: what measurement do we use for
soldering performance? Is there a variable measurement? I'd rather not
use an attribute measurement, since that, as you know, requires a
relatively large sample size. I don't like the prospect of using any
subjective measurement, fearing gage uncertainty will be excessive.
Any comments would be most welcome. Contact me off-line for discussions if
this topic is too narrow for the forum. Thanks to all. Lou Hart
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:06:53 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mark Hargreaves <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: IPC-D-320a oops
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Typo in my last post- should have been IPC-D-320a.
Thanks,
Mark Hargreaves
EMDS, Inc.
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:35:23 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jana Carraway <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Okay, which is faster, cheaper, lower risk: procuring a silicone removal
product to remove possible silicone contamination from the circuit board or
finding an outside circuit board facility with plasma cleaning capability;
cost of cleaner and time to clean versus outside plasma and shipping; and
risk - risk of cross contamination to an IC process (high "severity" should
it happen) vs sending parts out for cleaning. I'm gonna stick with..."don't
come near my IC process with that filthy circuit board"!
Jana Carraway
Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Sauer, Steven T.
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:45 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Cleaning after plasma
Good Afternoon Doug,
My initial instinct is to go right along with Phil and Jana, silicone
contamination is an ugly beast. But if you're hellbent on plasma, there is
a company in Indy not far from good 'ol NAC (north of Raymond and east of
I-65), called Dynaloy, Inc.
They manufacture products for the removal of silicones (along with acrylics,
epoxies and urethanes).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:37:12 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Why do all that plasma cleaning of assemblies, dosen't plasma etch metal and
desmear epoxies, sounds like a lot of compoinents could be affected over time.
Could you just wash the bds. in a water spray sopinafer type machine?
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:38:37 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ashok Dhawan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Do we require to use Air ionizers for conformal coating ??
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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What kind of air ionizers should one use for a conformal coating line ? I
was told that air ionizers help in keeping the dust away besides protecting
ESD sensitive parts on the boards. The application of masking tape and
removal of tape can cause undesirable ESD damage to electronic parts.
I will appreciate if someone can advise me where to find used -air ionizers
( qty: 6-10) and ionizing guns/ nozzles ( qty: 3-6 ). The air ionizers can
be benchtop units or overhead type- table mounted. The air ionizing guns or
nozzles are for drying out PCB assemblies which are sensitive to ESD.
Ashok Dhawan P.Eng.
Engineering
C-MAC Network Systems Inc.
1455 Mountain Roar
Winnipeg Manitoba R2X 2Y9
WWW.CMAC.COM
TEL (204) 631 7208
FAX (204) 631 7294
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:13:24 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dave Snyder <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SMT Component Losses
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
What is the expected part loss in the pick and place process? I assume the
percentages are different depending on the type of part and size. It's
probably is much better if the lots are very large, however we manufacture
board assemblies in small lots (50-200). Is there an IPC document that lists
"normal" levels or guidelines?
Dave Snyder
Manufacturing Engineering Manager
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:29:15 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Well, now that we have firmly established that I AM a two headed monster
and should be shot whenever coming within 100 yards of the clean room.....
Yes, I would have preferred not to risk the cross-contamination issue, IF I
COULD. That plasma cleaner was the only one large enought to handle the
assemblies in question, and I was given all of today to solve a
multimillion dollar potential problem. So going out of house was not an
option. We already wash with a saponifier, but that does not increase the
surface roughness of the solder mask or components. The parameters I
selected were done so with a mild etch in mind, not the aggressive profiles
used for decap. If you have ever been in a production crunch, you know
that you often get put in positions were you would rather not be if you had
your druthers.
Doug Pauls
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:31:47 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Shawn Murphy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Trace cut quality
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
What specification would contain "Trace Cut" information? We have a
situation where there is obvious damage to the FR4 material between two
leads that had a common trace at one point. Our conscious tells us to
repair the gouge but we haven't located anything in IPC-610 to tell us what
is acceptable and what isn't. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
regards,
shawn
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:43:52 +1100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Sklenar Vit (RBAU-EB/MGE4)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Reliability of hand soldered solder joint.
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Hi Techneters,
does somebody have statistical data or information regarding the quality of
a hand soldered joint. What is the expected failure rate compared with a
solder joint formed by machine? Help!
Thank you
Regards
Vit Sklenar MGE4VS
T: (61 3)9541 7734 F: (61 3) 9541 3909
e-mail work: [log in to unmask]
e-mail home: [log in to unmask]
> Robert Bosch (Aust) ,
1555 cnr.Centre and McNaugton Road,
> Clayton , VIC 3169, Australia
>
>
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:58:41 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Chris McManus <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Trace cut quality
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shawn, try IPC-7721
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Murphy" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]ORG>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:31 PM
Subject: [TN] Trace cut quality
> What specification would contain "Trace Cut" information? We have a
> situation where there is obvious damage to the FR4 material between two
> leads that had a common trace at one point. Our conscious tells us to
> repair the gouge but we haven't located anything in IPC-610 to tell us
what
> is acceptable and what isn't. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> regards,
> shawn
>
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:08:19 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Solder paste evaluation
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You're correct that's a tough job.
If this phase of evaluating pastes, our test is a relative comparison of how
well pastes wet. It is not a measure of how well a component pad will wet
in production.
In the test:
* Clean (i.e., chemically or with abrasion) the tarnish from a sheet of bare
copper laminate.
* Print the paste on the laminate, using a stencil used in evaluating
pastes. [Check with Phil Zarro for a recommendation.]
* Reflow solder the laminate using the paste manufacturer's recommended
profile.
* Clean the laminate with isopropyl alcohol.
* Inspect the solder fillet at X10 magnification.
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lou Hart" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 1:07 PM
Subject: [TN] Solder paste evaluation
> TechNetters, our production people want to investigate an alternative to
> the solder paste we are now using. My proposal was to perform a designed
> experiment to see if the candidate paste is better than, worse than, or
> equivalent to the present paste.
>
> Factors to consider in an experiment could, in my opinion, include the
> pastes themselves, solderability preservative, lead finish, stencil life,
> etc.
>
> A big question than comes to my mind is: what measurement do we use for
> soldering performance? Is there a variable measurement? I'd rather not
> use an attribute measurement, since that, as you know, requires a
> relatively large sample size. I don't like the prospect of using any
> subjective measurement, fearing gage uncertainty will be excessive.
>
> Any comments would be most welcome. Contact me off-line for discussions
if
> this topic is too narrow for the forum. Thanks to all. Lou Hart
>
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:12:22 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Mass lead trimming systems...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi All!
The subject has come up here about mass lead trimming systems. From what I've
learned, they have their place. But in our situation, I have the opinion that
they aren't warranted here. We do a lot of class-3 electronics, have hardware
(screws and whatnot from connectors) that hang below the lead length
requirements.
Many of the requirements on the asssembly drawings of products we build,
still call out MIL standards, even though they are obsolete, we are still
obligated to build to these standards...those that build product according to
these standards, and have tried to deviate, or change, from what is
documented on these standards know what a task that is...it isn't going to
change.
So, in my opinion, mass lead trimming systems have no place here. There are
too many things that call out extra work that will need to be done because of
these systems.
The J-STD's call out that if lead trimming is performed after wave solder,
then the joints should be either re-reflowed, or inspected under 10X to
ensure that there has been no fractures...
I've also heard that these systems need METICULOUS maintenance. If they
aren't maintained perfectly, they will cause major problems.
Just want to hear from any of you that have direct experience with these
systems..
My position is that you either prep PTH components so that lead length
requirements are met after soldering, and/or you make the adjustments that
are available on your auto-insertion machines so that you meet lead length
requirements...if you have to trim after wave solder, then either you haven't
specified the proper component prep, or you need to adjust the cut and clinch
on your auto-insertion equipment...I come the school that you can do things
before wave solder that keeps lead length requirements within specifications,
and not require mass lead trimming afterwards.
So with that being said, what opinions are out there about mass lead trimming
systems?
As always, all ya'll are the best...
-Steve Gregory-
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:19:20 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Peter George Duncan>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: .050 PWB
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Depends on the thickness tolerence you're specifying. If all layers are to
be 2 oz, and you're using 3.5 mils core & prepreg, it will fab OK but allow
maybe +/- 8 mils fab tolerence. If all the holes are through-holes that's
OK too, but if you have many blind via groups, you'll need more than the
normal processes to make the thing work and keep copper weight and
thickness within the bounds of reason.
Make sure your design is balanced for symetrical copper distribution
throughout the board, and make sure you do a proper thermal profiling job
when it comes to assembly - that amount of copper will absorb a lot of
heat. Make sure everything is properly to temperature before the final
boost to soldering temp.
Peter Duncan
Darrel
Therriault To: [log in to unmask]
<DTherriault@ cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
INCEP.COM> Aero/ST Group)
Sent by: Subject: [TN] .050 PWB
TechNet
<[log in to unmask]
ORG>
12/14/01
02:41 AM
Please
respond to
"TechNet
E-Mail
Forum."
Technet.....
PWB designer and fab folks........We are considering building an .050"
PWB with 2 oz Cu, 6-8 layers.
Any heartburn or horror stories with this design or is this within
normal capability from the design and fab perspective??
DT
--
Darrel Therriault
VP, Mfg. Operations
INCEP Technologies, Inc
(858)547-9925 223
[log in to unmask]
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:06:03 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Richard Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mass lead trimming systems...
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Hey Steve,
I come from your class....including first hand experience to say nothing of
general practice.
You basically are on the right track. The mass lead cutting is a bear to
manage and maintain to say nothing of the inspection and rework post
process due to pressure being brought to bear on the connections themselves.
Do the prep work, the settings on the AI equipment and whatever else you
can to make things come out of the wave the correct way and you will be all
the happier with the results. All this without saying that touch up post
wave solder is work that can cause more harm than good.
Stay on the track you are on and stay in class, your a good student, you
learn well!
Richard
At 12:12 AM 12/18/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi All!
>
>The subject has come up here about mass lead trimming systems. From what I've
>learned, they have their place. But in our situation, I have the opinion that
>they aren't warranted here. We do a lot of class-3 electronics, have hardware
>(screws and whatnot from connectors) that hang below the lead length
>requirements.
>
>Many of the requirements on the asssembly drawings of products we build,
>still call out MIL standards, even though they are obsolete, we are still
>obligated to build to these standards...those that build product according to
>these standards, and have tried to deviate, or change, from what is
>documented on these standards know what a task that is...it isn't going to
>change.
>
>So, in my opinion, mass lead trimming systems have no place here. There are
>too many things that call out extra work that will need to be done because of
>these systems.
>
>The J-STD's call out that if lead trimming is performed after wave solder,
>then the joints should be either re-reflowed, or inspected under 10X to
>ensure that there has been no fractures...
>
>I've also heard that these systems need METICULOUS maintenance. If they
>aren't maintained perfectly, they will cause major problems.
>
>Just want to hear from any of you that have direct experience with these
>systems..
>
>My position is that you either prep PTH components so that lead length
>requirements are met after soldering, and/or you make the adjustments that
>are available on your auto-insertion machines so that you meet lead length
>requirements...if you have to trim after wave solder, then either you haven't
>specified the proper component prep, or you need to adjust the cut and clinch
>on your auto-insertion equipment...I come the school that you can do things
>before wave solder that keeps lead length requirements within specifications,
>and not require mass lead trimming afterwards.
>
>So with that being said, what opinions are out there about mass lead trimming
>systems?
>
>As always, all ya'll are the best...
>
>-Steve Gregory-
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:19:12 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
X-To: [log in to unmask]
Simply refreshing to see/hear the key word "druthers" again. It says it all
and ranks right up there with fugarwe as in that type meeting.
MoonMan
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:22:57 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mass lead trimming systems...
X-To: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Seems you got it all right. Horizontal buzz saws have no place in your
environment.
The 2000 Mil standards went beyond standards. They DICTATED what processes
were to be used under specified (by the government) conditions. That no
longer is the case.
MoonMan
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:27:04 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Solder paste evaluation
X-To: Louis Hart <[log in to unmask]>
Provided you have proven solderable component termination areas (end caps,
leads, etc.), one of the best ways to determine your requirements is to
reflow on a very clean ceramic substrate. You can pull the devices off the
substrate easily and examine process, and attendant element, effects.
MoonMan
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:59:07 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Just out of curiosity, what problems are you having with the coating process
that warrants plasma cleaning?
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: [log in to unmask]
[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Cleaning after plasma
Well, now that we have firmly established that I AM a two headed
monster
and should be shot whenever coming within 100 yards of the clean
room.....
Yes, I would have preferred not to risk the cross-contamination
issue, IF I
COULD. That plasma cleaner was the only one large enought to handle
the
assemblies in question, and I was given all of today to solve a
multimillion dollar potential problem. So going out of house was
not an
option. We already wash with a saponifier, but that does not
increase the
surface roughness of the solder mask or components. The parameters
I
selected were done so with a mild etch in mind, not the aggressive
profiles
used for decap. If you have ever been in a production crunch, you
know
that you often get put in positions were you would rather not be if
you had
your druthers.
Doug Pauls
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:59:36 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Dieselberg, Ron" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mass lead trimming systems...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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That is unfortunately true, MoonMan. Now everything is rag tag loose and the
disciplines are gone. Every body does their own thing! There is no order to
things anymore!
Even the Moon is moving away from us at a rate of about 1" per year.
Where will it all end?
Ron Dieselberg
Trainer/Auditor
CMC ELECTRONICS
CINCINNATI
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:23 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Mass lead trimming systems...
Seems you got it all right. Horizontal buzz saws have no
place in your
environment.
The 2000 Mil standards went beyond standards. They DICTATED
what processes
were to be used under specified (by the government)
conditions. That no
longer is the case.
MoonMan
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2652.35">
<TITLE>RE: [TN] Mass lead trimming systems...</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">That is unfortunately true, MoonMan. =
Now everything is rag tag loose and the disciplines are gone. Every =
body does their own thing! There is no order to things anymore! =
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Even the Moon is moving away from us =
at a rate of about 1" per year.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Where will it all end?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Ron Dieselberg</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Trainer/Auditor</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CMC ELECTRONICS</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CINCINNATI</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">[log in to unmask]</FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: Earl Moon [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]</FONT></=
B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent: </FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:23 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To: </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">[log in to unmask]</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: </FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Re: [TN] Mass lead trimming =
systems...</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Seems you got it all right. Horizontal =
buzz saws have no place in your</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">environment.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">The 2000 Mil standards went beyond =
standards. They DICTATED what processes</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">were to be used under specified (by =
the government) conditions. That no</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">longer is the case.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">MoonMan</FONT>
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:32:19 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Graham Collins <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mass lead trimming systems...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Steve
We are thinking alike. The mass trimmers don't appeal to me, but there is =
one in another "sister" facility. The process for that one is to trim =
leads, and then run the boards back through wave. I don't like it because =
of the maintenance issues you mention, plus in this process the board sees =
another thermal excursion - and I'd prefer to avoid that. The 10x =
inspection for fractured joints is amusing - if you have a couple of =
thousand leads sticking out of an old technology board, inspecting them =
all for fractured joints is the proverbial search for the needle in the =
haystack.
Our process:
DIPs are all trimmed to finished length. Axials and radials are put in =
using a Contact cut/clinch machine, set up to meet our lead length =
requirements. The only problem parts are connectors, on thin boards we =
have been known to trim the leads by hand. =20
Have a happy holiday!
regards
Graham Collins
Process Engineer,=20
Northrop Grumman
Atlantic Facility of Litton Systems Canada
(902) 873-2000 ext 6215
>>> [log in to unmask] 12/18/01 01:12AM >>>
Hi All!
The subject has come up here about mass lead trimming systems. From what =
I've
learned, they have their place. But in our situation, I have the opinion =
that
they aren't warranted here. We do a lot of class-3 electronics, have =
hardware
(screws and whatnot from connectors) that hang below the lead length
requirements.
Many of the requirements on the asssembly drawings of products we build,
still call out MIL standards, even though they are obsolete, we are still
obligated to build to these standards...those that build product according =
to
these standards, and have tried to deviate, or change, from what is
documented on these standards know what a task that is...it isn't going to
change.
So, in my opinion, mass lead trimming systems have no place here. There =
are
too many things that call out extra work that will need to be done because =
of
these systems.
The J-STD's call out that if lead trimming is performed after wave solder,
then the joints should be either re-reflowed, or inspected under 10X to
ensure that there has been no fractures...
I've also heard that these systems need METICULOUS maintenance. If they
aren't maintained perfectly, they will cause major problems.
Just want to hear from any of you that have direct experience with these
systems..
My position is that you either prep PTH components so that lead length
requirements are met after soldering, and/or you make the adjustments that
are available on your auto-insertion machines so that you meet lead length
requirements...if you have to trim after wave solder, then either you =
haven't
specified the proper component prep, or you need to adjust the cut and =
clinch
on your auto-insertion equipment...I come the school that you can do =
things
before wave solder that keeps lead length requirements within specification=
s,
and not require mass lead trimming afterwards.
So with that being said, what opinions are out there about mass lead =
trimming
systems?
As always, all ya'll are the best...
-Steve Gregory-
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:08:01 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mass lead trimming systems...
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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In a former position, we had a machine for trimming leads. It had a
horizontal blade, high speed saw.
We had to use it on one type board for a customer that wanted very short
lead protrusion.(RF stuff)
The blade had to be very sharp. Setup errors could easily destroy a board.
Bow and Twist issues could easily destroy a board. Our system was manual, X
and Y plane. Move too fast or too slow and you got flags, and metal chips.
The vacuum (ESD?!) could not clean up every thing. So, the station quickly
became a mess of little tiny metal pieces. It was a nightmare to control the
process. DON'T GO THERE IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO. Do not even think of it if you
have a no-clean process.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stephen R. Gregory
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 12:12 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Mass lead trimming systems...
>
>
> Hi All!
>
> The subject has come up here about mass lead trimming systems.
> From what I've
> learned, they have their place. But in our situation, I have the
> opinion that
> they aren't warranted here. We do a lot of class-3 electronics,
> have hardware
> (screws and whatnot from connectors) that hang below the lead length
> requirements.
>
> Many of the requirements on the asssembly drawings of products we build,
> still call out MIL standards, even though they are obsolete, we are still
> obligated to build to these standards...those that build product
> according to
> these standards, and have tried to deviate, or change, from what is
> documented on these standards know what a task that is...it isn't going to
> change.
>
> So, in my opinion, mass lead trimming systems have no place here.
> There are
> too many things that call out extra work that will need to be
> done because of
> these systems.
>
> The J-STD's call out that if lead trimming is performed after wave solder,
> then the joints should be either re-reflowed, or inspected under 10X to
> ensure that there has been no fractures...
>
> I've also heard that these systems need METICULOUS maintenance. If they
> aren't maintained perfectly, they will cause major problems.
>
> Just want to hear from any of you that have direct experience with these
> systems..
>
> My position is that you either prep PTH components so that lead length
> requirements are met after soldering, and/or you make the adjustments that
> are available on your auto-insertion machines so that you meet lead length
> requirements...if you have to trim after wave solder, then either
> you haven't
> specified the proper component prep, or you need to adjust the
> cut and clinch
> on your auto-insertion equipment...I come the school that you can
> do things
> before wave solder that keeps lead length requirements within
> specifications,
> and not require mass lead trimming afterwards.
>
> So with that being said, what opinions are out there about mass
> lead trimming
> systems?
>
> As always, all ya'll are the best...
>
> -Steve Gregory-
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
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> additional
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-509-9700 ext.5315
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
>
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:01:05 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mass lead trimming systems...
X-To: Ron Dieselberg <[log in to unmask]>
Never liked the government telling us how to do things. However, as you say,
there was order and chaos was minimized. We had guidance from "above" if you
will. The best thing was that it was based on some pretty good stuff arrived
at through careful studies yielding rather uniform, SPECIFIC information
(500 + or - 5 degrees for wave soldering as an example).
One can only speculate whether the studies, and the information derived and
presented from them, would hold up today - in such a complex design and
manufacturing environment. Probably it would have and DFM/CE would be alive
and well. Then, the complex situations we now face may not have turned out
so. Of course, many of the questions on this forum would have related to
what something or some paragraph meant instead of how you do this to that.
Many large corporations took up the pursuit. The HP's, IBM's, Nortel's, and
more, developed their versions of 2000. Some of them worked but not without
mis-interpretation and some ego bruising. Many versions are not similar,
however.
Yes, our moon is moving away. As the MoonMan, this worries me a bit but if
headed for the sun, I'll be getting off soon. There's chaos in the universe,
from my cold, gray perch but, from much more distance, there is order in it?
Really beyond my scope. Need a new standard for that.
MoonMan
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:08:15 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mass lead trimming systems...
X-To: Graham Collins <[log in to unmask]>
During the '80's, as most of you know, this equipment was one of the main
subjects of forums like this - had they then existed. Everyone had a better
cutting system and the biggest complaint was as you expressed it -
maintenance (especially blade resharps or changing plus heght adjustments)
going back through the wave.
Thank goodness for SMT, having arrived at the time, and the small need to
trim/cut only a few leads without fracturing solder joints and then
resoldering them. A bit ironic as leads manually trimmed could not be cut
into the joint so fracturing was eliminated. No resoldering allowed.
MoonMan
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:21:55 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Solder paste evaluation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
check this out:
http://www.alphametals.com/products/solderpaste/tech_art.html
Ioan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Earl Moon [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:27 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Solder paste evaluation
>
> Provided you have proven solderable component termination areas (end caps,
> leads, etc.), one of the best ways to determine your requirements is to
> reflow on a very clean ceramic substrate. You can pull the devices off the
> substrate easily and examine process, and attendant element, effects.
>
> MoonMan
>
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:22:53 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brad Saunders <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: .050 PWB
MIME-Version: 1.0
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DT,
This build gives me a nervous twitch... The six layer build of all 2 ounce
layers:
.0028 x 6 = .0168; add plating to surface (.0013 x 2 = .0026); Cu total =
.0194
Foil build using .004 core between 2/3 & 4/5; .006 thick on the rest = .026
Total board thickness is right at .05 on the six layer config and tuff on the
eight.
I would send out for quotes before you go to far down the road of commitment.
Keep in mind the adjacent copper's need to fill with prepreg's resin is
substantial and will differ with personality; plane, mixed plane or trace. I
do a lot of "heavy" copper boards and I may be alone but my attitude is 2
ounce copper is heavy. In days gone by (prior to single ply cores, and thin
dielectrics) 6 or 8 layers in an .050 PWB was a "no brainer"... no way!
So... if you have some "old guy" that has hesitation this may be why. [Old
guy being nongender and 6+ years experience.]
I can go on and on with this subject but as a Holiday gift to all I will just
say Season's Greetings.
Sincerely,
Boston Brad
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:35:55 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brad Saunders <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Standards for Naming Signals on Schematics.
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The specs that Phil lists are excellent and used them daily... They still
leave quite a bit up for "interpretation" in this case I go to the most
excellent IPC-??-991. If memory serves me correctly the 991 was to be a
replacement the 32 series but wasn't actually a contract deliverable
document. It is/was however very good and concise in naming convention. I
liked it.
Brad
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:41:28 +0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: John Brown <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Incoming Inspection
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hello Technet,
I need some information on incoming inspection.
1. Do we need to complete incoming inspection?
2. If so how do we decide what to inspect?
3. What percentage of an inspection is necessary?
4. Are there any specifications/documents recommended by IPC?
Any information will be useful. Thanks in advance
_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:46:45 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: .050 PWB
X-To: Brad Saunders <[log in to unmask]>
Sure agree with the "old timer." 2 oz stuff was light weight in a time past.
Getting 4 core/preg to do its thing now is different. Using single ply
constructions as 2113 or 2116 provides exceptional dimensional stability in
all axes including minimizing warp and twist - for a number of reasons.
These materials also are well balanced in terms of resin to glass ratios.
Because of this alone, they may not "fill" well enough to provide consistent
initial quality and long term reliability.
Using miltiple core/preg materials offer an answer to the "fill" issue.
However, they cost more in many areas.
MoonMan
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:57:52 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Alain Savard <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Incoming Inspection
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Incoming Inspection of what?
What is your area of production? (Fab board maker, Assembler, OEM...)
What is your production class? (low reliability(class 1) to High reliability
(Class 3))
Alain Savard
QA - PCB
CAE Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Brown [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:41 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Incoming Inspection
Hello Technet,
I need some information on incoming inspection.
1. Do we need to complete incoming inspection?
2. If so how do we decide what to inspect?
3. What percentage of an inspection is necessary?
4. Are there any specifications/documents recommended by IPC?
Any information will be useful. Thanks in advance
_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:59:18 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Incoming Inspection
X-To: John Brown <[log in to unmask]>
Incoming inspection should not be an option. IPC provides all the quality
and reliability criteria for your properly evaluated and qualified supplier
to perform its inspections.
Your supplier should provide you, first, evidence that it is managing
processes effectively. At a minimum, your supplier should provide
statistical quality evidence product meets your clearly stated and defined
contract requirements. If your board shop does as required, you need not
inspect....
I wrote an article, a couple of years ago, specifically describing how to
evaluate and qualify a board supplier. It starts and ends in the laboratory.
Information available on request.
MoonMan
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:06:53 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Roger M. Stoops" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mass lead trimming systems...
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Ooooh, this takes me way back. Agree with Graham and those of like mind.
Horizontal lead trimming is touchy stuff. Saw a board that had "dropped"
into blade... Cool effects from traces peeling from sliced and diced pcb.
Poorly maintained saws created burrs on leads (ouch!), also saw fractured
joints that the assembly pros would dutifully touch up (did they really
catch them all?)
Prep work ahead of time will save manual touch-up and costly boo-boos
afterwards. (And keep the bean-counters really happy...) Use horizontal
lead trimming only if you must!
My $0.02 worth.
Roger M. Stoops, C.I.D., PCB Designer
[log in to unmask]
Trimble
Engineering and Construction Division
5475 Kellenburger Rd.
Dayton, OH 45424-1099 USA
Ph: +01 937.233.8921 or +01 937.233.4574 ext 288
Fax: +01 937.233.7511
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:16:52 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Trace cut quality
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Use the IPC 7721 Repair and Modification of Printed Boards and Electronic =
Assemblies.=20
Kathy=20
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<DIV>Use the IPC 7721 Repair and Modification of Printed Boards and
Electronic Assemblies. </DIV>
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:22:26 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Incoming Inspection
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>>> [log in to unmask] 12/18/01 07:41AM >>>
Hello Technet,
I need some information on incoming inspection.
1. Do we need to complete incoming inspection?=20
** I would suggest it.=20
2. If so how do we decide what to inspect?
** We choose our parts for inspection by dollar value per part, customer =
per print items, or parts we have had problems with in manufacturing.=20
3. What percentage of an inspection is necessary? MIL-STD-105 typical 1.0 =
AQL,=20
Normal inspection but we have criteria to allow a tightened or loosened =
inspection. Use the charts in the standard to determine what inspection =
sample size meets your needs. =20
Kathy=20
bile device: http://mobile.msn.com
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:30:55 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: David Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Reliability of hand soldered solder joint.
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Hi Vit! Let me restate your question and come at it from a different angle:
" Would you expect a solder joint which has proper wetting and acceptable
solder geometry if created by either manual soldering or machine soldering
to perform differently for a given use environment?". My answer would be no
- the initial solder joint metallurgy would be different for a manual
solder joint and a machine solder joint but those differences equalize
within a week of assembly. If you follow best industry soldering practices
(using IPC JSTD 001 and IPC-A-610 requirements/recommendations) you would
not expect a difference in performance between the two methods. However,
with all that being said, the very nature of manual soldering leads to a
smaller window of consistency and repeatability in contrast to machine
soldering practices. You may have a larger failure rate for manual
soldering processes only because of the consistency window. Hope this
helps.
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
"Sklenar Vit (RBAU-EB/MGE4)" <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on
12/17/2001 05:43:52 PM
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Subject: [TN] Reliability of hand soldered solder joint.
Hi Techneters,
does somebody have statistical data or information regarding the quality
of
a hand soldered joint. What is the expected failure rate compared with a
solder joint formed by machine? Help!
Thank you
Regards
Vit Sklenar MGE4VS
T: (61 3)9541 7734 F: (61 3) 9541 3909
e-mail work: [log in to unmask]
e-mail home: [log in to unmask]
> Robert Bosch (Aust) ,
1555 cnr.Centre and McNaugton Road,
> Clayton , VIC 3169, Australia
>
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:35:06 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mass lead trimming systems...
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Hi Steve - just to chime in with the rest of the TechNet folks - I have
lead trimmed more "boards" than leads on a given day of operation with an
automated lead trim system. I don't have any "good" words of description
for the systems, am very glad to see them become "artificial reef material"
and am an advocate of your thoughts - prep the leads before soldering.
Enough said, I am off to swipe one of Doug's Mountain Dew's. Happy Holidays
to everyone.
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
"Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/17/2001 11:12:22 PM
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Subject: [TN] Mass lead trimming systems...
Hi All!
The subject has come up here about mass lead trimming systems. From what
I've
learned, they have their place. But in our situation, I have the opinion
that
they aren't warranted here. We do a lot of class-3 electronics, have
hardware
(screws and whatnot from connectors) that hang below the lead length
requirements.
Many of the requirements on the asssembly drawings of products we build,
still call out MIL standards, even though they are obsolete, we are still
obligated to build to these standards...those that build product according
to
these standards, and have tried to deviate, or change, from what is
documented on these standards know what a task that is...it isn't going to
change.
So, in my opinion, mass lead trimming systems have no place here. There are
too many things that call out extra work that will need to be done because
of
these systems.
The J-STD's call out that if lead trimming is performed after wave solder,
then the joints should be either re-reflowed, or inspected under 10X to
ensure that there has been no fractures...
I've also heard that these systems need METICULOUS maintenance. If they
aren't maintained perfectly, they will cause major problems.
Just want to hear from any of you that have direct experience with these
systems..
My position is that you either prep PTH components so that lead length
requirements are met after soldering, and/or you make the adjustments that
are available on your auto-insertion machines so that you meet lead length
requirements...if you have to trim after wave solder, then either you
haven't
specified the proper component prep, or you need to adjust the cut and
clinch
on your auto-insertion equipment...I come the school that you can do things
before wave solder that keeps lead length requirements within
specifications,
and not require mass lead trimming afterwards.
So with that being said, what opinions are out there about mass lead
trimming
systems?
As always, all ya'll are the best...
-Steve Gregory-
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:41:20 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Don Vischulis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Incoming Inspection
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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John:
Earl hit the reply button quicker than I, and he's right. The answers to
your questions are best answered by a person educated in the quality
sciences. Exact answers depend on your industry and desired quality level.
These requirements will be different for components critical to keeping a
satellite operating over the course of years compared to the little things
that play music from greeting cards.
I've answered your questions below, but notice that the responsibility is
placed on you. Your responsibility is also governed by print, contract, and
regulatory requirements.
Hello Technet,
I need some information on incoming inspection.
1. Do we need to complete incoming inspection?
You must perform those activities (inspection and testing) necessary to
ensure that received materials meet your requirements.
2. If so how do we decide what to inspect?
See #1. At a minimum you need to inspect those features that affect the
function of the part.
3. What percentage of an inspection is necessary?
Percentage sampling is not recommended. The best sampling plans have tables
that specify the sample size and number of allowable rejects within the
sample. One of my preferences is the C=0 table found in IPC-6012. In 6012,
varying AQL levels are specificed for critical, major and minor defects. If
no defects are allowable, 100% inspection is necessary (very expensive when
properly done). Companies also have suppliers certified to supply parts of
acceptable quality without incoming inspection. The qualification and
monitoring efforts needed to maintain such a system are beyond the scope of
this response, but Earl gives you a flavor of those requirements.
4. Are there any specifications/documents recommended by IPC?
IPC-6011, IPC-6012 and IPC-A-600 are the beginning points for rigid bare
boards. I don't recall the written spec number, but IPC-A 610 is a
beginning point for assemblies.
Good luck with you rendeavor. Remember that an effective quality system
integrates incoming inspection with the rest of the company's efforts to
provide customer satisfaction.
Don Vischulis
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>John:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Earl hit the reply =
button quicker=20
than I, and he's right. The answers to your questions are best =
answered by=20
a person educated in the quality sciences. Exact answers depend on =
your=20
industry and desired quality level. These requirements will be =
different=20
for components critical to keeping a satellite operating over the course =
of=20
years compared to the little things that play music from greeting=20
cards.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I've answered your =
questions below,=20
but notice that the responsibility is placed on you. Your =
responsibility=20
is also governed by print, contract, and regulatory =
requirements.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hello Technet,<BR>I need some information on =
incoming=20
inspection.<BR>1. Do we need to complete incoming =
inspection?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>You must perform =
those=20
activities (inspection and testing) necessary to ensure that received =
materials=20
meet your requirements.</FONT><BR>2. If so how do we decide what to=20
inspect?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>See #1. At =
a minimum you=20
need to inspect those features that affect the function of the=20
part.</FONT><BR>3. What percentage of an inspection is =
necessary?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>Percentage =
sampling is not=20
recommended. The best sampling plans have tables that specify the =
sample=20
size and number of allowable rejects within the sample. One of my=20
preferences is the C=3D0 table found in IPC-6012. In 6012, varying =
AQL=20
levels are specificed for critical, major and minor defects. If no =
defects=20
are allowable, 100% inspection is necessary (very expensive when =
properly=20
done). Companies also have suppliers certified to supply parts of=20
acceptable quality without incoming inspection. The qualification =
and=20
monitoring efforts needed to maintain such a system are beyond the scope =
of this=20
response, but Earl gives you a flavor of those =
requirements.</FONT><BR>4. Are=20
there any specifications/documents recommended by IPC?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff>IPC-6011, =
IPC-6012 and=20
IPC-A-600 are the beginning points for rigid bare boards. I don't =
recall=20
the written spec number, but IPC-A 610 is a beginning point for=20
assemblies. </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Good luck with you =
rendeavor. =20
Remember that an effective quality system integrates incoming inspection =
with=20
the rest of the company's efforts to provide customer =
satisfaction.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Don=20
Vischulis</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:42:59 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Leo Lambert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Trace cut quality
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The damage laminate can be found in 600 under 2.2.3 Exposed/disrupted
Fibers. Exposed or disrupted fiber areas are considered conductive area and
if they reduce the minimum electrical spacing requirements, they are
nonconforming and must be repaired. IPC 6012, 3.3.2.2 Weave Exposure also
discussed the condition.
Hope this helps
Leo Lambert
EPTAC Corp
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Shawn Murphy
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:32 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Trace cut quality
What specification would contain "Trace Cut" information? We have a
situation where there is obvious damage to the FR4 material between two
leads that had a common trace at one point. Our conscious tells us to
repair the gouge but we haven't located anything in IPC-610 to tell us what
is acceptable and what isn't. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
regards,
shawn
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:48:18 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Solder paste evaluation
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Lou! One test we have successfully used on past solder paste
qualifications is a long duration solder paste tack test. The process is
pretty simple. We selected a test assembly which had a wide range of
component types (both area array and SMT) and printed solder paste on 10 of
them. We immediately populated 2 boards but the other boards we populated
at 2 hour intervals. After population we insert a test assembly vertically
in a fixture which provided a "calibrated" hit on the bottom of the
assembly in an effort to see which components and how many fell off the
test assembly. It is a very informative method for comparing the tack
strength of different solder pastes over a 10 hour period and also
interesting on which types of components were more sensitive to solder
paste tack properties. This tack method gave us a good comparative index of
candidate solder paste tack and other properties such as bridging, slump,
etc. (we inspected the test assemblies before putting them in the tack
"tester"). Good Luck.
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
Lou Hart <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/17/2001 03:07:50 PM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: [TN] Solder paste evaluation
TechNetters, our production people want to investigate an alternative to
the solder paste we are now using. My proposal was to perform a designed
experiment to see if the candidate paste is better than, worse than, or
equivalent to the present paste.
Factors to consider in an experiment could, in my opinion, include the
pastes themselves, solderability preservative, lead finish, stencil life,
etc.
A big question than comes to my mind is: what measurement do we use for
soldering performance? Is there a variable measurement? I'd rather not
use an attribute measurement, since that, as you know, requires a
relatively large sample size. I don't like the prospect of using any
subjective measurement, fearing gage uncertainty will be excessive.
Any comments would be most welcome. Contact me off-line for discussions if
this topic is too narrow for the forum. Thanks to all. Lou Hart
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 07:49:11 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Whittaker, Dewey E. (AZ75)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Reliability of hand soldered solder joint.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Dave,
Good response.You better hurry though if you want a Mountain Dew,since Doug
has turned into a two-headed monster he is drinking them at twice the rate.
Dewey
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Hillman [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 7:31 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Reliability of hand soldered solder joint.
>
> Hi Vit! Let me restate your question and come at it from a different
> angle:
> " Would you expect a solder joint which has proper wetting and acceptable
> solder geometry if created by either manual soldering or machine soldering
> to perform differently for a given use environment?". My answer would be
> no
> - the initial solder joint metallurgy would be different for a manual
> solder joint and a machine solder joint but those differences equalize
> within a week of assembly. If you follow best industry soldering practices
> (using IPC JSTD 001 and IPC-A-610 requirements/recommendations) you would
> not expect a difference in performance between the two methods. However,
> with all that being said, the very nature of manual soldering leads to a
> smaller window of consistency and repeatability in contrast to machine
> soldering practices. You may have a larger failure rate for manual
> soldering processes only because of the consistency window. Hope this
> helps.
>
> Dave Hillman
> Rockwell Collins
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
> "Sklenar Vit (RBAU-EB/MGE4)" <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on
> 12/17/2001 05:43:52 PM
>
> Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> cc:
>
> Subject: [TN] Reliability of hand soldered solder joint.
>
>
> Hi Techneters,
> does somebody have statistical data or information regarding the quality
> of
> a hand soldered joint. What is the expected failure rate compared with a
> solder joint formed by machine? Help!
>
> Thank you
>
> Regards
>
> Vit Sklenar MGE4VS
> T: (61 3)9541 7734 F: (61 3) 9541 3909
> e-mail work: [log in to unmask]
> e-mail home: [log in to unmask]
> > Robert Bosch (Aust) ,
> 1555 cnr.Centre and McNaugton Road,
> > Clayton , VIC 3169, Australia
> >
>
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:20:53 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: INCOMING INSPECTIONS - ELIMINATE
Been receiving some off forum mail, as you would expect and a couple are
below. Kind of started with some kind comments concerning 2000 and chaos. If
feel this is important stuff while feeling regression into the quality, or
lack of it, abyss:
Hi MoonMan,
Are you serious, no incoming inspection?
We run military and high reliability through here, you'd be surprise of the
amount of poor work you can receive even with a CoC. Especially Fab boards,
I know some of our design are not the best, but even the best fails a few
boards every once in a while.
Can I get a soft copy of the article you mentioned on TN?
Thanks,
Dear Moonman,
Could you forward me your article/some information on how to evaluate and
qualify a board supplier and anything else you think would help at incoming
inspection. Love the craic in all your technet answers. Brightens everyone's
day.
Thanks and merry Christmas.
MoonMan response and I'm really doing more than trying to stir some stupid pot:
Thank you and merry Christmas as well. What is craic? Must be a new
technical term from IPC, right?
Please accept the following I sent to some other folks asking your question:
A bit of a stretch? You bet, but that's what DFM/CE is all about. Learned
most of it in my hi-rel military days over the past 35 years. Actually,
never stopped.
It is possible to eliminate incoming. We've essentially done away with 105
so why not go the rest of the way. We talk big talk concerning suppliers but
not enough substance. It's really easy.
Earlier, there was a brief discussion about 2000 and its implications as
well as government control. It started in the 80's and set a quality
declining world on its ass. It required suppliers to exact processes in
accordance with the standard down to the temp/time stuff. Simply, it
demanded those doing business with the government do it right and prove it
so inspections became unnecessary. I've been there and done that. I still
demand no incoming because suppliers do it right. Also, suppliers must
finally LEARN to clearly indicate what is required. Onec of the biggest
offenders is the supplier. There's just no concurrence no matter how much BS
DFM is employed.
Please go to the SMTnet site and retrieve my article about the laboratory
qualification requirements for boards, as well as many others there. I wrote
most of them two years ago while serving time at Celestica. That would place
them in the The Laboratory - A Primary Evaluation and Qualification Factor
to Determine PCB Supplier Process Capabilities by Earl Moon - Proof Of
Design (POD): http://www.smtnet.com/express/199907/. Note, there are others
during this time for about 3 months
Enjoy,
Earl
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:28:00 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "S. Miller" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Thermount Laminate
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_9b.1fe41b04.2950ba80_boundary"
--part1_9b.1fe41b04.2950ba80_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Happy Holidays to All,
We have a couple of board designs that have LCCCs (Leadless Ceramic Chip
Carriers) and our domestic PCB supplier has recommended that we use a
different laminate substrate other than the traditional FR-4 that has a CTE
close to the ceramic on the chip.
It has been suggested that they use a laminate called Thermount.
Being on unfamilar ground, I was wondering if any of you could lend
assistance by providing:
- Do you we know of any suppliers that currently manufacture PCB's using
Thermount?
- What is the price difference between FR4 and Thermount? (Please advise in
percentages)
- Is there a suitable alternative that will work that has similar properties
of Thermount?
Any and all feedback would be truly appreciated.
Regards,
--part1_9b.1fe41b04.2950ba80_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Happy Holidays to All,
<BR>
<BR>We have a couple of board designs that have LCCCs (Leadless Ceramic Chip Carriers) and our domestic PCB supplier has recommended that we use a different laminate substrate other than the traditional FR-4 that has a CTE close to the ceramic on the chip.
<BR>
<BR>It has been suggested that they use a laminate called Thermount.
<BR>
<BR>Being on unfamilar ground, I was wondering if any of you could lend assistance by providing:
<BR>
<BR>- Do you we know of any suppliers that currently manufacture PCB's using Thermount?
<BR>- What is the price difference between FR4 and Thermount? (Please advise in percentages)
<BR>- Is there a suitable alternative that will work that has similar properties of Thermount?
<BR>
<BR>Any and all feedback would be truly appreciated.
<BR>
<BR>Regards,
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>
--part1_9b.1fe41b04.2950ba80_boundary--
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:09:22 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jim Marsico asks:
Just out of curiosity, what problems are you having with the coating
process
that warrants plasma cleaning?
*Doug, the two headed monster, replies:
We have several different kinds of solder mask (7) that are allowed on our
boards. We have a total of 12 suppliers. We have had some customer
rejections of late because our conformal coating does not stick to a
particular assembly as much as the customer would like.
So, as one of the process troubleshooters, I am working to find the root
cause: mask related itself, the way the fabricator processes the mask, the
way we process and clean the boards, the way we apply the coating, the way
we cure the coating, the way we control the process, etc. There is a very
large number of variables to consider in determining the root cause.
I am trying to remedy the problem, both as a long term solution (e.g.
material or process changes) and as a short term fix for work in progress,
which is considerable in volume. With most organic coatings, roughening
the surface of the solder mask will help improve the adhesion. I could use
something like a pumice scrub, but that is viable only at the bare board
level and it leaves lots of ionic residue. Plasma, with a proper selection
of gasses, power settings, and durations, can roughen all surfaces, thereby
improving adhesion. At least in theory. I am using Argon/Hydrogen for a
gentle etch. Running an agressive oxygen plasma clean after the board
exposure, with some other cleaning options, should solve any cross
contamination issues.
I call this work my Hydra project. Every time I cut off one head, two grow
to take it's place.
Doug
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:24:07 -0500
Reply-To: Tony Steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Tony Steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Circuit Technologies
Subject: Re: Thermount Laminate
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0068_01C187B6.81D67E00"
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------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C187B6.81D67E00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
S Miller,
Thermount is manufactured by a company called Arlon.
It is equivelant to what DuPont manufactures which is called Kevlar.
You are correct in that they probably offer the lowest CTE
available for material supplies. My previous company
AIT-Atlanta(Advanced Interconnection Technology) still manufactures
boards using these materials for military applications.
The contact would be Dominic DeDuonni 770-938-9387 =20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: S. Miller=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:28 AM
Subject: [TN] Thermount Laminate
Happy Holidays to All,=20
We have a couple of board designs that have LCCCs (Leadless Ceramic =
Chip Carriers) and our domestic PCB supplier has recommended that we use =
a different laminate substrate other than the traditional FR-4 that has =
a CTE close to the ceramic on the chip. =20
It has been suggested that they use a laminate called Thermount. =20
Being on unfamilar ground, I was wondering if any of you could lend =
assistance by providing: =20
- Do you we know of any suppliers that currently manufacture PCB's =
using Thermount? =20
- What is the price difference between FR4 and Thermount? (Please =
advise in percentages)=20
- Is there a suitable alternative that will work that has similar =
properties of Thermount? =20
Any and all feedback would be truly appreciated. =20
Regards,=20
------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C187B6.81D67E00
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>S Miller,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thermount is manufactured by a company =
called=20
Arlon.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It is equivelant to what DuPont=20
manufactures which is called Kevlar.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You are correct in that they probably =
offer the=20
lowest CTE</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>available for material supplies. My =
previous=20
company</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>AIT-Atlanta(Advanced Interconnection =
Technology)=20
still manufactures</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>boards using these materials for =
military=20
applications.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The contact would be Dominic DeDuonni=20
770-938-9387 </FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" =
[log in to unmask]>S.=20
Miller</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"=20
[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, December 18, =
2001 10:28=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Thermount =
Laminate</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Happy =
Holidays to All,=20
<BR><BR>We have a couple of board designs that have LCCCs (Leadless =
Ceramic=20
Chip Carriers) and our domestic PCB supplier has recommended that we =
use a=20
different laminate substrate other than the traditional FR-4 that has =
a CTE=20
close to the ceramic on the chip. <BR><BR>It has been suggested =
that=20
they use a laminate called Thermount. <BR><BR>Being on =
unfamilar=20
ground, I was wondering if any of you could lend assistance by =
providing:=20
<BR><BR>- Do you we know of any suppliers that currently =
manufacture=20
PCB's using Thermount? <BR>- What is the price difference =
between FR4=20
and Thermount? (Please advise in percentages) <BR>- Is there a =
suitable=20
alternative that will work that has similar properties of Thermount? =
=20
<BR><BR>Any and all feedback would be truly appreciated. =20
<BR><BR>Regards, <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C187B6.81D67E00--
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:36:06 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrick Lam <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Incoming Inspection
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi Moonman,
Would you send me a copy of your article:
"I wrote an article, a couple of years ago, specifically describing how to
evaluate and qualify a board supplier"
Thanks,
Patrick
Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]> on 12/18/2001 05:59:18 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Patrick Lam/SEL)
Subject: Re: [TN] Incoming Inspection
Incoming inspection should not be an option. IPC provides all the quality
and reliability criteria for your properly evaluated and qualified supplier
to perform its inspections.
Your supplier should provide you, first, evidence that it is managing
processes effectively. At a minimum, your supplier should provide
statistical quality evidence product meets your clearly stated and defined
contract requirements. If your board shop does as required, you need not
inspect....
I wrote an article, a couple of years ago, specifically describing how to
evaluate and qualify a board supplier. It starts and ends in the laboratory.
Information available on request.
MoonMan
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This e-mail may contain SEL confidential information. The opinions expressed
are not necessarily those of SEL. Any unauthorized disclosure, distribution or
other use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify
the sender, permanently delete it, and destroy any printout. Thank you.
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:12:28 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Incoming Inspection
X-To: Patrick Lam <[log in to unmask]>
Patrick, Kathy and all others kinkdly requesting this and other articles,
please observe the following:
Please go to the SMTnet site and retrieve my article about the laboratory
qualification requirements for boards, as well as many others there. I wrote
most of them two years ago while serving time at Celestica. That would place
them in the The Laboratory - A Primary Evaluation and Qualification Factor
to Determine PCB Supplier Process Capabilities by Earl Moon - Proof Of
Design (POD): http://www.smtnet.com/express/199907/. Note, there are others
during this time for about 3 months
Enjoy,
Earl
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:15:57 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Thermount Laminate
X-To: Tony Steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Started working with Kevlar over 20 years ago or so. A real bear to work
with but if you need it - it does the job as stated. Hard to drill and edges
fray when routed, or otherwise machined. Costs very much but, again, does
the job though alternatives have been widely discussed herein.
MoonMan
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:56:06 -0800
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Ahne Oosterhof <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I love those gentle hints at what not to do. :)
My personal experience with plasma cleaning comes from potting a ceramic
hybrid resistor high voltage divider. We had a heck of a time finding a way
to make sure the potting material adhered to the part. The nice thing was
that in this high voltage environment it was rather easy to detect when the
process failed.
It was necessary to go to plasma cleaning to get the best adhesion of the
potting material to the ceramic and to the protective coating over the
resist pattern. After the plasma cleaning nothing (except clean tools) and
nobody touched the parts!!
Sorry, but I know nothing about what happens to the "dirt" that gets removed
in the plasma cleaner and where it travels or hides.
Have fun.
O yaeh, forgot the mention --- the plasma cleaning process worked like a
charm.
Ahne.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 08:09
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Cleaning after plasma
Jim Marsico asks:
Just out of curiosity, what problems are you having with the coating
process
that warrants plasma cleaning?
*Doug, the two headed monster, replies:
We have several different kinds of solder mask (7) that are allowed on our
boards. We have a total of 12 suppliers. We have had some customer
rejections of late because our conformal coating does not stick to a
particular assembly as much as the customer would like.
So, as one of the process troubleshooters, I am working to find the root
cause: mask related itself, the way the fabricator processes the mask, the
way we process and clean the boards, the way we apply the coating, the way
we cure the coating, the way we control the process, etc. There is a very
large number of variables to consider in determining the root cause.
I am trying to remedy the problem, both as a long term solution (e.g.
material or process changes) and as a short term fix for work in progress,
which is considerable in volume. With most organic coatings, roughening
the surface of the solder mask will help improve the adhesion. I could use
something like a pumice scrub, but that is viable only at the bare board
level and it leaves lots of ionic residue. Plasma, with a proper selection
of gasses, power settings, and durations, can roughen all surfaces, thereby
improving adhesion. At least in theory. I am using Argon/Hydrogen for a
gentle etch. Running an agressive oxygen plasma clean after the board
exposure, with some other cleaning options, should solve any cross
contamination issues.
I call this work my Hydra project. Every time I cut off one head, two grow
to take it's place.
Doug
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:02:58 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
X-To: Ahne Oosterhof <[log in to unmask]>
Certainly plasma does its job as it has in the PCB industry for over 20
years as a method used to etch back drilled MLB polyimide holes to be
plated. Obviously, as well, it is used in the hybrid business to clean
ceramic substrates before some metallizations and assembly.
The residue, in those and other processes, is deposited as "ash" on the
chamber walls. Strangely, some process folks don't remove it as it seems a
good process indicator not to be messed with. In any case, it "cleans" the
hell out of most stuff on this or other planets.
MoonMan
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:22:48 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jana Carraway <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Doug,
All worse case scenarios aside, please let us know what you do to resolve
the problem(s) and how well it works. It is actually valuable information.
Jana Carraway
Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Cleaning after plasma
Well, now that we have firmly established that I AM a two headed monster
and should be shot whenever coming within 100 yards of the clean room.....
Yes, I would have preferred not to risk the cross-contamination issue, IF I
COULD. That plasma cleaner was the only one large enought to handle the
assemblies in question, and I was given all of today to solve a
multimillion dollar potential problem. So going out of house was not an
option. We already wash with a saponifier, but that does not increase the
surface roughness of the solder mask or components. The parameters I
selected were done so with a mild etch in mind, not the aggressive profiles
used for decap. If you have ever been in a production crunch, you know
that you often get put in positions were you would rather not be if you had
your druthers.
Doug Pauls
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:33:50 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brad Saunders <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Thermount Laminate
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Thermount is a registered trade name. A web search of Thermount will give
huge blocks of info. The following is my experience.
Thermount advantage is XY CTE in the 7-9 range verses FR4 of 13-15. Unlike
the "fiberglass weave" or E-glass FR4 Thermount dielectric (B & C stage)
uses Kevlar. The Thermount differs in the "Ole Kevlar" configuration in that
it is non woven. [Non woven is an odd word, it is akin to referring to
wooden particle board as "non woven."]
The reason for the Kevlar "bits" is to eliminate or greatly reduce the large
Z axis expansion of the woven configuration. There is the ability to have
PWBs built in either Polyimide or Epoxy Thermount configurations.
Two cautions from my own experience; Thermount is high in moisture absorption
and being non woven the CTE is effected by copper percentage (adjacent to
plane will exhibit higher CTE numbers). A lesson learned for me is increase
the worst case dielectric distance between outside diameter of plated through
hole barrel and clearance of plane. The small quasi spheres of Kevlar can be
dislodged at or after drill and (be it ever so small) the Z axis expansion is
still present albeit relative to itself.
I am a Apps Eng for Coretec and we build Thermount all the time
(www.coretec-inc.com) as well as other shops, it is not that exotic.
Alternatives to Thermount are the good ole CIC which is a Texas Instruments
Tradename for a trimetal (Copper Invar Copper) contained inside the PCB that
acts as a constraining layer or layers with dual function as electrical
planes (also manufactured by Coretec at our SAS facility). My favorite
method to "manage" these pesky LCCC's... never use more than a 28 pin device
(okay, maybe 32... but that's upper limit) AND when you do go higher than 28
attach leads (I like Penn, they do a nice job). LCCC's (especially high pin
count) are usually thermally hot, make sure your thermal plan is a systems
approach...
Sorry for the shameless company plugs...
Boston Brad
781 858 0783
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:23:08 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Krug, Dick" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Optimum Method to Apply Solder Paste to PWB's for BGA Application
s?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
What is the optimum method to apply solder paste to PWB's for BGA
applications?
For our business, optimum means the process yielding the most reliable
solder joints following reflow.
I've considered dispensing and stencil printing. Some BGA's could possibly
just use flux to promote wetting during reflow.
Are there other methods I should be considering?
Dick Krug
GroupTech
Tampa, FL
[log in to unmask]
(813) 972-6914
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:35:58 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Lambert, Katherine A." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Board baking & sealable bags
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi folks,
Currently we bake our boards and store them in nitrogen cabinets until we
are ready to use the boards on our automated line. Typically, turn around
is fairly quick - within a week - but occasionally is more than a month due
to other part shortages.
We are trying to streamline the process a bit and get rid of the nitrogen
cabinets as they take up a lot of space, and the boards become separated
from the rest of the kit, etc.
We are looking at a bake & bag process. We would bake the boards, seal them
in appropriate bags with a humidity indicator card, and send them to the
assembly area with the rest of the kit. Desiccants are not an option as
they typically have caused our panelized boards to break. We have a variety
of board types - polyimide, epoxy-glass, etc. Since the folks around here
like a one-size-fits-all process, we need to develop the process around the
most sensitive board type.
Now for the questions:
1. Where is a good source for information regarding sealable or resealable
bags that are reasonably impermeable to ambient humidity? Our relative
humidity levels typically run between 30% & 50%
2. We have a bag sealer, but will a zip-lock type bag work just as well?
3. Where is a good source for information regarding humidity indicator
cards?
4. Is there any reliable information regarding how long a baked board can be
exposed to ambient humidity before it has to be rebaked?
Thanks for any insight you can provide.
Kathie Lambert
Process Engineer
Northrop Grumman
Baltimore, MD
410-765-9746
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:48:49 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Creswick, Steven" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I know the generic answer has already been provided, but my belief is that
mixing silicones with hybrids is definitely tabo - regardless of how well
you say you clean the chamber.
Any hybrid plasma cleaner is (should be) thoroughly wiped down with (at
least IP alcohol) on a routine basis - Subject to extent of use, this may be
weekly, or bi-weekly.
Whatever is on the chamber walls has a definite chance to get re-deposited
onto a substrate (or get sucked out the vacuum stack). Murphey's Law would
have a more than fair share going to the part you are attempting to clean...
Steve Creswick - Gentex Corp
-----Original Message-----
From: Jana Carraway [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:23 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Cleaning after plasma
Doug,
All worse case scenarios aside, please let us know what you do to resolve
the problem(s) and how well it works. It is actually valuable information.
Jana Carraway
Micro Systems Engineering, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Cleaning after plasma
Well, now that we have firmly established that I AM a two headed monster
and should be shot whenever coming within 100 yards of the clean room.....
Yes, I would have preferred not to risk the cross-contamination issue, IF I
COULD. That plasma cleaner was the only one large enought to handle the
assemblies in question, and I was given all of today to solve a
multimillion dollar potential problem. So going out of house was not an
option. We already wash with a saponifier, but that does not increase the
surface roughness of the solder mask or components. The parameters I
selected were done so with a mild etch in mind, not the aggressive profiles
used for decap. If you have ever been in a production crunch, you know
that you often get put in positions were you would rather not be if you had
your druthers.
Doug Pauls
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:51:14 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Optimum Method to Apply Solder Paste to PWB's for BGA
Application s?
X-To: Dick Krug <[log in to unmask]>
Most everyone's business relies on optimizing process management so the most
reliable product is effected. If not, what's the point.
For plastic BGA's, coplanarity always was and still is an issue as is CTE in
some applications. Therefore, whatever contributes to a reliable solder
joint must be considered.
I am a proponent of applying only flux to effect reflow under specified
conditions. Short of that, I prefer using "hard" balls in all four corners
and reflowing using solder paste thus creating colums that are very
forgiving as compliant in light of coplanarity and CTE issues. When not
using hard balls, a little drop of epoxy, carefully thought out and applied,
does the same job. Not everyone enjoys this concept.
Now, we move on to CBGA's requiring paste applications though CTE issues now
become equally critical but in reverse in some cases. CCGA's are about as
good as you can get because all aforementioned issues are resolved but for
one. Where do you get these but from IBM.
uBGA's offer considerable advantages on both counts concering coplanarity
and CTE matching characteristics. Sure are small though.
Ah yes, about solder paste: How can you not use it but in low volume,
critical applications where flux will do?
Many have stated the obvious as using appropriate design rules. These may
consist of using 10% smaller pads than balls then designing stencil
apertures to overprint paste 20% - and on it goes notwithstanding aperture
shapes as square, diamond, or round. I get along with round very well.
Not to get carried away, but you know I will, but considerations for the
type connection using dogbones is another factor. Don't do right angles. Go
right to the connection and don't forget rework/repair/modification
requirements. Now it's time to say and on it goes.
MoonMan
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:57:44 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
X-To: S Creswick <[log in to unmask]>
the chamber cleaning part is what I wanted to hear in addition to how clean
should it be to prevent x contamination?
MoonMan
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:10:23 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brad Saunders <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Optimum Method to Apply Solder Paste to PWB's for BGA
Application s?
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Hello Dick,
The best way is the best that works. If you we're doing all .050 inch pitch
BGAs I think just about anything works and at that point it is a question of
thru-put. When you are "floating" the micro BGAs (<.86mm) I find the
neighborhood follows. I would not find it to hard to believe the .050 pitch
has 300 plus pin QFP and a gaggle of 1206 passives while the .5mm would not
be to surprising to find 201 packages. It has been my experience that BGAs
are the nice guys in the group. My experience is all stencil and usually
flatness of PCB counts so I like Silver (or Tin). It "converts" to solder
joint quickly compared to ENIG (without fear of Nickel saga) and has the
required flatness (etc, and down the finish road we go). I think in terms of
substrate (assuming you have appropriate state of the art equipment, etc),
ensure to the extent you can that surface topology is flat solder masked vias
(nice term) are properly thought out, and if using PCB material that requires
prebake it is done properly (big subject). The stencil I would use is 5 mil
laser with instructions for ease of release, teaming with paste supplier. I
like BGAs, it's the none BGAs that gave me lots of conversation.
Brad
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:29:36 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Chuck Brummer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
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Hi,
No, I'm not. (sorry)
Argon isn't going to etch epoxy or metal, and with only 100 watts is barely going to clean
organics. Silicon is always tough. I like Rudy's suggestion (I usually do) but if your going
to plasma use O2 with a dash (2%) of CF4 and crank up that power to like, say, 1000 watts.
Chuck Brummer
Acuson
Good Luck!
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> Why do all that plasma cleaning of assemblies, dosen't plasma etch metal and
> desmear epoxies, sounds like a lot of compoinents could be affected over time.
> Could you just wash the bds. in a water spray sopinafer type machine?
>
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:51:46 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bill Christoffel <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Board baking & sealable bags
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Although I can not offer sources for bag sealers, I will offer a word of
warning regarding bags in general. Depending on your subsequent
processes, (i.e. soldering, wire bonding) plastic bags can and do have
the potential of contaminating your board surface, (especially if you
plan on using anti-stat bags). =20
Bill C.
Advanced Manufacturing Engineer
NorLux Corp.=20
[log in to unmask]
P.S. You might try contacting Northrop Grumman, Rolling Meadows Site
PWB Department who does use a bagging process on finished boards for
their input. I can give you names if you want to contact me directly. (I
spent 15+ yrs at that facility).
-----Original Message-----
From: Lambert, Katherine A.
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 9:36 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Board baking & sealable bags
Hi folks,
Currently we bake our boards and store them in nitrogen cabinets until
we
are ready to use the boards on our automated line. Typically, turn
around
is fairly quick - within a week - but occasionally is more than a month
due
to other part shortages.
We are trying to streamline the process a bit and get rid of the
nitrogen
cabinets as they take up a lot of space, and the boards become separated
from the rest of the kit, etc.
We are looking at a bake & bag process. We would bake the boards, seal
them
in appropriate bags with a humidity indicator card, and send them to the
assembly area with the rest of the kit. Desiccants are not an option as
they typically have caused our panelized boards to break. We have a
variety
of board types - polyimide, epoxy-glass, etc. Since the folks around
here
like a one-size-fits-all process, we need to develop the process around
the
most sensitive board type.
Now for the questions:
1. Where is a good source for information regarding sealable or
resealable
bags that are reasonably impermeable to ambient humidity? Our relative
humidity levels typically run between 30% & 50%
2. We have a bag sealer, but will a zip-lock type bag work just as well?
3. Where is a good source for information regarding humidity indicator
cards?
4. Is there any reliable information regarding how long a baked board
can be
exposed to ambient humidity before it has to be rebaked?
Thanks for any insight you can provide.
Kathie Lambert
Process Engineer
Northrop Grumman
Baltimore, MD
410-765-9746
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:46:14 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Siemen - S25 machine: What do you think?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello all,
We are seriously evaluating the next generation
platform for our facility. We mainly make memory
products (RIMM, DIMM(168-200), DDR, SODIMM144/72). It
could be considered as high mix, high volume. We have
other as big as 20K/W.O down to 5-10 units/W.O,
however, mainly they are above 1000 units/W.O.
Currently, we use the combination of Dek-CP (65,643,7)
and QP2/3. However, due to the changes in technology
and our limited space, WE ARE LOOKING FOR BETTER
COMBINATION THAT CAN GIVE OUR PRODUCTION MORE BENEFIT.
CP and QP are great, however, for the ratio of 50/10
(50 small resister/cap per 10 regular to fine pitch
ICs) cause too much waiting time on our lines.
(Averagely, CP7 finish a panel of 8 up within 25-30
seconds while the 2 QP3 combination take up to 1
minutes or more to finish one panel).
Simemen - S25 - 6/12 combination comes to our mind.
The presentations are very impressive. However, we
would like to hear your realistic opinions about the
S25 6/12 you have known or use of.
THE FOLLOWING ARE WHAT WE NEED YOUR OPINIONS ON:
1. Service: Engineering knowledge, commitement,
response.
2. Parts: Flexibility, Avaiability, Shipping, Price,
Update/Improvement.
3. Machine: Accuracy (For how long), Life,
Maintenance, Usage Friendly, Breakdown, etc.
4. Software: User Friendly, Line Monitor, Improvement,
Secure etc.
5. The Innovation, the growth rate of Siemen and how
do they communicate with you to keep you up with what
they are doing. How do they handle their customer
during up/down economy.
6. what else should I consider for this possible
change?
Changing the production line are very serious. As we
change, we would be stuck with it for at least 5-10
years. Technology is changing rapidly, one mistake
could lead our business straight to ... hell. However,
sticking with an old one could hold us down as well.
Thanks a million in advance for your help!
Stacy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:57:06 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Board baking & sealable bags
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Kathie! Sorry for a silly question but why are you baking the boards?
Material reason, process reason, etc. ?
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
"Lambert, Katherine A." <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on
12/18/2001 09:35:58 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: [TN] Board baking & sealable bags
Hi folks,
Currently we bake our boards and store them in nitrogen cabinets until we
are ready to use the boards on our automated line. Typically, turn around
is fairly quick - within a week - but occasionally is more than a month due
to other part shortages.
We are trying to streamline the process a bit and get rid of the nitrogen
cabinets as they take up a lot of space, and the boards become separated
from the rest of the kit, etc.
We are looking at a bake & bag process. We would bake the boards, seal
them
in appropriate bags with a humidity indicator card, and send them to the
assembly area with the rest of the kit. Desiccants are not an option as
they typically have caused our panelized boards to break. We have a
variety
of board types - polyimide, epoxy-glass, etc. Since the folks around here
like a one-size-fits-all process, we need to develop the process around the
most sensitive board type.
Now for the questions:
1. Where is a good source for information regarding sealable or resealable
bags that are reasonably impermeable to ambient humidity? Our relative
humidity levels typically run between 30% & 50%
2. We have a bag sealer, but will a zip-lock type bag work just as well?
3. Where is a good source for information regarding humidity indicator
cards?
4. Is there any reliable information regarding how long a baked board can
be
exposed to ambient humidity before it has to be rebaked?
Thanks for any insight you can provide.
Kathie Lambert
Process Engineer
Northrop Grumman
Baltimore, MD
410-765-9746
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:17:10 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Optimum Method to Apply Solder Paste to PWB's for BGA
Application s?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Earl,
As a self-described proponent of flux only mounting of BGA, please help us
understand the impact on product reliability of reduced solder in these
connections.
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Moon" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TN] Optimum Method to Apply Solder Paste to PWB's for BGA
Application s?
> Most everyone's business relies on optimizing process management so the
most
> reliable product is effected. If not, what's the point.
>
> For plastic BGA's, coplanarity always was and still is an issue as is CTE
in
> some applications. Therefore, whatever contributes to a reliable solder
> joint must be considered.
>
> I am a proponent of applying only flux to effect reflow under specified
> conditions. Short of that, I prefer using "hard" balls in all four corners
> and reflowing using solder paste thus creating colums that are very
> forgiving as compliant in light of coplanarity and CTE issues. When not
> using hard balls, a little drop of epoxy, carefully thought out and
applied,
> does the same job. Not everyone enjoys this concept.
>
> Now, we move on to CBGA's requiring paste applications though CTE issues
now
> become equally critical but in reverse in some cases. CCGA's are about as
> good as you can get because all aforementioned issues are resolved but for
> one. Where do you get these but from IBM.
>
> uBGA's offer considerable advantages on both counts concering coplanarity
> and CTE matching characteristics. Sure are small though.
>
> Ah yes, about solder paste: How can you not use it but in low volume,
> critical applications where flux will do?
>
> Many have stated the obvious as using appropriate design rules. These may
> consist of using 10% smaller pads than balls then designing stencil
> apertures to overprint paste 20% - and on it goes notwithstanding aperture
> shapes as square, diamond, or round. I get along with round very well.
>
> Not to get carried away, but you know I will, but considerations for the
> type connection using dogbones is another factor. Don't do right angles.
Go
> right to the connection and don't forget rework/repair/modification
> requirements. Now it's time to say and on it goes.
>
> MoonMan
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:26:18 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Charles Caswell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ok they got my email n (here at work) working again, only took 2 months.
We are using PR-1440 A-2 from PRC-DeSoto2750 114th Ste. 400 Grand
Prairie TX., 75750. The Aloe is from Electro Abrasives 701 Willet Road
Buffalo N.Y. 14218. =20
We mix this 11 parts base, 1 part accelerator and 10 parts AlO2. The
Manuf. inst. is 10 parts base/ 1 part accelerator. The manuf. cure time
is 72 hr. ambient. We couldn't wait that long so I contacted their Tech
support. They recommended 2 hr. ambient to let some of the volatiles
escape followed by 8 hr. at 170-180F. I have had no problems taking it
straight to the oven. It can be handled and even aqueous cleaned after
about 4 hr.
Hope this helps.
Charles Caswell
Process Lead, PCB
Frontier Electronic Systems
P.S whaddaya think of this weather were having in mid Dec.?
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet E-Mail Forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...=20
Hi All!!
..tappity-tappity-tappity...(doin' my thank gawd it's Friday dance!
hehehe)
I was wondering if someone could point me in a direction where I could
find
some alumina filled polysulfide compound, per MIL-S-8802, class A-2,
with 50
plus or minus 10%, 325 mesh aluminum oxide powder...
This is something that is called out on a drawing for a board that's
using
this material to strain relief two small battery cables that are
installed on
the board...I've searched and find a bunch of stuff about polysulfide
compounds, but nothing alumina filled. If I search under MIL-S-8802, I
find
all kinds of polysulfide sealers for jet fuel tanks, but still nothing
alumina filled...
Any help will be much appreciated
-Steve Gregory-
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:43:52 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Darrel Therriault <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: INCEP Technologies, Inc.
Subject: FR5
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Technetters,
Can someone define FR5-G11 for me or point me in a direction to find out
what this is? Not familiar with FR5 or G11 callout for laminate.
Tks......DT
--
Darrel Therriault
VP, Mfg. Operations
INCEP Technologies, Inc
(858)547-9925 223
[log in to unmask]
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=========================================================================
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:33:30 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Phil Zarrow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Jong on Vacation (was Re: TechNet Digest - 13 Dec 2001 (
#2001-776))
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_180.fad24b.29513a5a_boundary"
--part1_180.fad24b.29513a5a_boundary
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Must be one helluva vacation!
Phil Zarrow
ITM Consulting
(not on vacation)
--part1_180.fad24b.29513a5a_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Must be one helluva vacation!
<BR>
<BR>Phil Zarrow
<BR>ITM Consulting
<BR>(not on vacation)</FONT></HTML>
--part1_180.fad24b.29513a5a_boundary--
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 21:33:59 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Alumina filled Polysulfide compound...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Charles!
Thanks pardner!! The drawing that we have spec's out a 50% ratio of the AlO2,
but that shouldn't be a big deal. I looked at some stuff from Chem Seal, they
call it their CS 3402...same deal, 72-hour cure, found aluminum oxide powder
in the mesh that's called out on the drawing too...
Just thinking about something now to contain and exhaust the rotten egg
smell. I know our production people won't stand for that...I'll be a "wanted
man" if I bring that on the floor and don't have something to take care of
this unique problem...and well I should too. Who wants to smell farts all day
long? Heheheh...and some rank ones at that!
As far as the weather here, it is bizarre! You being in Stillwater know how
it is...we had that big snow for a couple of days a few weeks ago, and now
it's shirt-sleeves again!! A week before Christmas and it's in the
60's...winter officially starts this weekend don't ya know? Came out here
from Northern California, and it's about the same climate here
now...seriously.
Watch, we'll be butt-hole deep in snow here inna few weeks, or have 2-inch
thick ice that we'll all be skating on...hope not, but there's one thing that
I've learned since being here in Oklahoma for the past couple of years, if
you don't like the weather here, just wait a couple of hours...it'll change.
-Steve Gregory-
> Ok they got my email n (here at work) working again, only took 2 months.
> We are using PR-1440 A-2 from PRC-DeSoto2750 114th Ste. 400 Grand
> Prairie TX., 75750. The Aloe is from Electro Abrasives 701 Willet Road
> Buffalo N.Y. 14218.
> We mix this 11 parts base, 1 part accelerator and 10 parts AlO2. The
> Manuf. inst. is 10 parts base/ 1 part accelerator. The manuf. cure time
> is 72 hr. ambient. We couldn't wait that long so I contacted their Tech
> support. They recommended 2 hr. ambient to let some of the volatiles
> escape followed by 8 hr. at 170-180F. I have had no problems taking it
> straight to the oven. It can be handled and even aqueous cleaned after
> about 4 hr.
> Hope this helps.
> Charles Caswell
> Process Lead, PCB
> Frontier Electronic Systems
> P.S whaddaya think of this weather were having in mid Dec.?
>
--part1_17.20592c27.29515697_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Charles!<BR>
<BR>
Thanks pardner!! The drawing that we have spec's out a 50% ratio of the AlO2, but that shouldn't be a big deal. I looked at some stuff from Chem Seal, they call it their CS 3402...same deal, 72-hour cure, found aluminum oxide powder in the mesh that's called out on the drawing too...<BR>
<BR>
Just thinking about something now to contain and exhaust the rotten egg smell. I know our production people won't stand for that...I'll be a "wanted man" if I bring that on the floor and don't have something to take care of this unique problem...and well I should too. Who wants to smell farts all day long? Heheheh...and some rank ones at that!<BR>
<BR>
As far as the weather here, it is bizarre! You being in Stillwater know how it is...we had that big snow for a couple of days a few weeks ago, and now it's shirt-sleeves again!! A week before Christmas and it's in the 60's...winter officially starts this weekend don't ya know? Came out here from Northern California, and it's about the same climate here now...seriously. <BR>
<BR>
Watch, we'll be butt-hole deep in snow here inna few weeks, or have 2-inch thick ice that we'll all be skating on...hope not, but there's one thing that I've learned since being here in Oklahoma for the past couple of years, if you don't like the weather here, just wait a couple of hours...it'll change.<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory- <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Ok they got my email n (here at work) working again, only took 2 months.<BR>
We are using PR-1440 A-2 from PRC-DeSoto2750 114th Ste. 400 Grand<BR>
Prairie TX., 75750. The Aloe is from Electro Abrasives 701 Willet Road<BR>
Buffalo N.Y. 14218. <BR>
We mix this 11 parts base, 1 part accelerator and 10 parts AlO2. The<BR>
Manuf. inst. is 10 parts base/ 1 part accelerator. The manuf. cure time<BR>
is 72 hr. ambient. We couldn't wait that long so I contacted their Tech<BR>
support. They recommended 2 hr. ambient to let some of the volatiles<BR>
escape followed by 8 hr. at 170-180F. I have had no problems taking it<BR>
straight to the oven. It can be handled and even aqueous cleaned after<BR>
about 4 hr.<BR>
Hope this helps.<BR>
Charles Caswell<BR>
Process Lead, PCB<BR>
Frontier Electronic Systems<BR>
P.S whaddaya think of this weather were having in mid Dec.?<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_17.20592c27.29515697_boundary--
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:27:19 +0530
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pull-Off strength for Surface Mount Adhesives
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Folks,
Hope my question reached all! In case it didn't, here it is again. Please
give your valuable inputs!
Thanks
Vinit
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vinit Verma
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:27 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Pull-Off strength for Surface Mount Adhesives
>
> Hi Technetters,
>
> Can anyone tell me where to find the IPC specification for the pull-off
> and Torque strengths for Surface mount adhesives. I have the test method
> but not the specification. Of course the glue manufacturer has this specs
> written onto the data sheet, but I need to check what is the range
> specified by the IPC, whether the manufacturers range falls in the IPC
> range or not!
>
> Thanks in anticipation
>
> Regards
> Vinit Verma
>
>
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:53:28 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Pull-Off strength for Surface Mount Adhesives
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Given the wide variety of chip bonders out there that have such divergent
properties, why [how] in the world would there be an IPC specification?
Your supplier is an excellent point of reference.
Dave Fish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vinit Verma" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] Pull-Off strength for Surface Mount Adhesives
> Hi Folks,
>
> Hope my question reached all! In case it didn't, here it is again. Please
> give your valuable inputs!
>
> Thanks
>
> Vinit
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vinit Verma
> > Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:27 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Pull-Off strength for Surface Mount Adhesives
> >
> > Hi Technetters,
> >
> > Can anyone tell me where to find the IPC specification for the pull-off
> > and Torque strengths for Surface mount adhesives. I have the test method
> > but not the specification. Of course the glue manufacturer has this
specs
> > written onto the data sheet, but I need to check what is the range
> > specified by the IPC, whether the manufacturers range falls in the IPC
> > range or not!
> >
> > Thanks in anticipation
> >
> > Regards
> > Vinit Verma
> >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
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> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:12:31 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: printron <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: TianJin Printron Circuit CORP
Subject: change E-mail address.
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 23:20:13 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Voiding on BGA with uVias
In-Reply-To: <002b01c18859$de16fd40$3ec9d7cc@davidfis>
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Hello,
We have encountered major BGA voiding issue. The void is sometimes up to
70% of the joint. Under X-ray inspection we found a blind 0.006" uVia,
0.01" deep under each void. Other BGA solder joint on board w/o uVias do
not have any void problems. Board is gold over Nickel finish and 2mm
thick.
Things we tried:
Reflow profile - WS/ no-clean paste, longer soak
Washing/ baking the bare PCB
Reworked by cleaning the uVias/pads and filled with solder but still
seeing void
Has anyone seen this before? Micro-sectioning clearly showed the void
originated from the uVia. We are trying to convince the board house that
it's not our process.
Rgds,
Peter
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:55:59 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Geoff Layhe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: FR5
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Darrel,
FR5 is a glass reinforced epoxy resin similar to FR4 except it has "higher
retention of flexural strength at elevated temperatures". Spec is IPC
4101/23. FR5 usually has a higher Tg than FR4 about 165 - 170 degC.
G11 is the non flame retardant version of FR5. Spec is IPC 4101/22.
All the major laminate manufacturers produce an FR5.
Geoff Layhe
www.lamar-uk.co
-----Original Message-----
From: Darrel Therriault [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 18 December 2001 23:44
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] FR5
Technetters,
Can someone define FR5-G11 for me or point me in a direction to find out
what this is? Not familiar with FR5 or G11 callout for laminate.
Tks......DT
--
Darrel Therriault
VP, Mfg. Operations
INCEP Technologies, Inc
(858)547-9925 223
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 03:02:05 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Optimum Method to Apply Solder Paste to PWB's for BGA
Application s?
X-To: "David H. Fish" <[log in to unmask]>
Ah Dave, so glad you asked that question.
Started doing work with plastic BGA's in the beautiful summer of 95. Did
some of the first IBM ceramic types about a year earlier. Had much fun with
both.
At Amdahl, and another not mentionable company, had the best of everything
except tools to place BGA's. This did not stop us from doing some serious,
at the time, soldering experiments using both home made table top diffused
IR cookers and the newest model, at the time, convection IR ovens.
Solder paste was a bit different then and we developed some for internal use
as required. My first thoughts were using micro vias, of a type I developed
in the early 80,s, in Kapton as a compliant layer on top of the rigid MLB
substrate. Used paste first but didn't like the voiding found using
transmissive x-ray equipment. Attributed most of it to outgassing from the
vias. This, as most know, wasn't the only contributing factor. Reliability
issues arose so I did some HALT/HAST testing to determine cycles to failure.
Mostly turned out to be no big deal but created an internal specification
limiting acceptable voiding to 20% maximum.
Did other work without solder paste. Instead, used flux paste and
determined, that with eutectic balls, no apparent voiding. Liked the idea
for no particularly good reason. Re visited the HALT/HAST testing and found
no significant difference between soldering with or without solder paste.
This meant finding the difference in solder volume was not a factor either.
However, coplanarity raised its ugly head occassionaly so I went back to
solder paste as a preferred process to overcome the issue. Later, with
ceramic device types becoming available, I went back to flux only and most
in the unmentionable company liked the results.
The big problem, of course, you can't use flux only in production for
obvious reasons. I believe Phil Zarrow had some comments and similar
thoughts on this issue as well. However, during rework operations, I never
used solder paste when the option is available. One advantage here is seldom
ever do shorting problems occur with no added solder paste and, again, even
with less solder volume in the joints, no negative reliability issues are
apparent.
Some other companies I've worked with (HP, Celestica, and others) also have
found this to be true. One example at HP concerned their inability to effect
good solder joints, on some perimeter BGA's (super BGA's) on a particularl
high density MLB. I introduced my idea, though they had been kicking it
around for a time, both in production and rework operations. Problems were
solved and no reliability issues or field return problems were encountered.
There's so much more, but as Phil Z said they ain't no big deal. Having said
that all, I'm now getting involved in some aerospace applications, again,
requiring COTS parts as plastic BGA's. The wheel just keeps on turning as
what goes around - yada yada. Who's willing to share their high rel plastic
stories? Anything new and exciting but for coplanarity, moisture
sensitivity, or?
Earl Moon
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:15:46 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: Jiang Ping <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Voiding on BGA with uVias
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 03:23:03 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Voiding on BGA with uVias
X-To: [log in to unmask]
WW91IGhhdmUgbWljcm8tc2VjdGlvbmVkLCBzbyB5b3UgY291bGQgY2hlY2sgdGhlIHJvdWdobmVz
cyBhbmQgcGxhdGluZy
The above means I might agree if I understood what you were trying to say.
Looks good though.
I just wrote some stuff about BGA's in an earlier posting. Dull stuff really
and very old as everyone knows. Some of it may be pertinent here.
I talked about developing a simple process to form micro vias in Kapton. I
used plasma to "drill" 3 to 5 mil holes in 1 mil thick material and bonded
the sheet over the MLB top and bottom. Essentially it was a rigid/flex board
without the flex part. Anyway, the concept worked very well but for some
outgassing issues as I stated before. The cause turned out to be some
problems associated with using a standard acrylic adhesive to bond the
Kapton to the outer layers and effect the plating process. Not that it
matters here, but used the same technique on inner layers as buried vias.
Someone patented the idea, or one similar, for micro vias, not that that
matters here either. Just writing myself a note. Is that legal on this forum?
uvia outgassing can be a problem but shouldn't be so. I can only guess it is
an issue relative to what you are experiencing. Outgassing out of any via is
cause for concern and most causes have been discussed many times. You know
the ones as moisture, process chemical entrapment, and all the rest. Of
course, it could just be entrapped air in the via.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:42:05 +0000
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Subject: Sign off TechNet
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 06:28:45 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Creswick, Steven" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cleaning after plasma
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Chuck,
Just as an FYI, it is not all that uncommon to use 100-150W Ar+ to clean
hybrids prior to wire bonding. Ditto for an O2 plama. We are not after
gross metal removal in that application - just cleaning of atomic scale
layer thicknesses.
Will leave the macroscopic surface treatment activities to you folks.
Steve Creswick - Gentex Corp
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Brummer [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:30 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Cleaning after plasma
Hi,
No, I'm not. (sorry)
Argon isn't going to etch epoxy or metal, and with only 100 watts is barely
going to clean
organics. Silicon is always tough. I like Rudy's suggestion (I usually do)
but if your going
to plasma use O2 with a dash (2%) of CF4 and crank up that power to like,
say, 1000 watts.
Chuck Brummer
Acuson
Good Luck!
[log in to unmask] wrote:
> Why do all that plasma cleaning of assemblies, dosen't plasma etch metal
and
> desmear epoxies, sounds like a lot of compoinents could be affected over
time.
> Could you just wash the bds. in a water spray sopinafer type machine?
>
>
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:29:50 +0100
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Subject: Technet temp. off
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:26:21 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Kasprzak, Bill (sys) USX" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Warpage in FR-4
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Holiday Greetings to one and all,
I have an 8 layer FR-4 board that was supposedly built IAW IPC-6011, Class 3
and IPC-6012, Class 3. The board itself appears to be like any other board,
.062" thick, no unusual ground plane layers etc. After wave soldering this
assembly severely warped. Looking at the bare boards, they are also warped,
but can be shaped into a straight position by bending a little. (I shouldn't
have to do this.)
Not being up to date on board fabrication techniques, was there anything in
the fab process that could lead to a warped board? We're talking a 3/16"
warp over an 8" length.. Or was there something at my assembly end that is
introducing the warp. The boards were run in a titanium picture frame
pallet.
Your thoughts and ideas are greatly appreciated.
Bill Kasprzak
Moog Inc., Electronic Assembly Engineering
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:44:29 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Safavi-Bayat Shahed <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Warp age in FR-4
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bill
Are you sure that the material is FR4 on top and bottom layer?
The reason I ask is I once used Rogers on component side and FR4 on circuit
side and the board had
warp age and the reason was mixing the two material.
Other than that I think your fab shop kind of missed it this time.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kasprzak, Bill (sys) USX [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 8:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Warpage in FR-4
Holiday Greetings to one and all,
I have an 8 layer FR-4 board that was supposedly built IAW IPC-6011, Class 3
and IPC-6012, Class 3. The board itself appears to be like any other board,
.062" thick, no unusual ground plane layers etc. After wave soldering this
assembly severely warped. Looking at the bare boards, they are also warped,
but can be shaped into a straight position by bending a little. (I shouldn't
have to do this.)
Not being up to date on board fabrication techniques, was there anything in
the fab process that could lead to a warped board? We're talking a 3/16"
warp over an 8" length.. Or was there something at my assembly end that is
introducing the warp. The boards were run in a titanium picture frame
pallet.
Your thoughts and ideas are greatly appreciated.
Bill Kasprzak
Moog Inc., Electronic Assembly Engineering
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:48:40 -0500
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Francois Monette <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Board baking & sealable bags
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In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-version: 1.0
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Katherine,
Here are my answers to your questions :
1. If you are looking for dry bags you should probably consider the bags
that are used to package moisture-sensitive components. Take note that these
bags are normally used in combination with desiccant. This is required for
long term storage since the bags are never perfectly hermetic. The key
specification is the Water Vapor Transmission Rate (WVTR). The highest
quality of bags, as required by J-STD-033 must meet a WVTR of <= 0.002
gm/100 in2 in 24 hrs at 40C. I can point you to a few good suppliers if you
want.
2. I really don't think that a zip-lock type of seal can be efficient to
keep moisture out of a dry bag.
3. The same suppliers that offer dry bags typically offer different models
of HIC as well
4. I am not aware of any standard for PCB dry storage. I believe that this
will vary for every type of board and your supplier might be the best source
of information on this subject.
Francois Monette
Cogiscan Inc.
50 De Gaspe, Suite A5
Bromont, Quebec, Canada, J2L 2N8
Tel : (450)534-2644
Fax: (450)534-0092
www.cogiscan.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:35:58 -0500
From: "Lambert, Katherine A." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Board baking & sealable bags
Hi folks,
Currently we bake our boards and store them in nitrogen cabinets until we
are ready to use the boards on our automated line. Typically, turn around
is fairly quick - within a week - but occasionally is more than a month due
to other part shortages.
We are trying to streamline the process a bit and get rid of the nitrogen
cabinets as they take up a lot of space, and the boards become separated
from the rest of the kit, etc.
We are looking at a bake & bag process. We would bake the boards, seal them
in appropriate bags with a humidity indicator card, and send them to the
assembly area with the rest of the kit. Desiccants are not an option as
they typically have caused our panelized boards to break. We have a variety
of board types - polyimide, epoxy-glass, etc. Since the folks around here
like a one-size-fits-all process, we need to develop the process around the
most sensitive board type.
Now for the questions:
1. Where is a good source for information regarding sealable or resealable
bags that are reasonably impermeable to ambient humidity? Our relative
humidity levels typically run between 30% & 50%
2. We have a bag sealer, but will a zip-lock type bag work just as well?
3. Where is a good source for information regarding humidity indicator
cards?
4. Is there any reliable information regarding how long a baked board can be
exposed to ambient humidity before it has to be rebaked?
Thanks for any insight you can provide.
Kathie Lambert
Process Engineer
Northrop Grumman
Baltimore, MD
410-765-9746
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:46:04 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Warpage in FR-4
X-To: "Kasprzak, Bill (esd) USX" <[log in to unmask]>
And a happy holiday season to you Bill. Wouldn't it be better talking
holiday cheer than of warped PCB's, though it's one of my favorite things.
What are some others?
Definitely love the smell eminating from a hot lamination press wherein
epoxy, or my particular favorite - polyimide, is burning and turning out
flat, or not, MLB's. It's even better when given the opportunity to help fix
a problem or two associated with it.
As you already know, if it ain't the design, it has to be the fab process or
what goes into it - right or wrong. Materials, constructions, press
condition, press cycles and some more interesting things make flat boards
when carefully selected and managed.
I suggest having a friendly visit with your supplier, say over some very
highly laced egg nog, and discuss world conditions and those of the
processes inside as well as those out when materials are brought up. It's
really just too easy to make flat boards. Truth is, it's hard not to make
them that way.
Again, seasons best and sleep on the issue for a while because sleeping on
the boards will not make them flat.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:57:26 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: white powder on leads
Hi All
Here is another residue issue
We have an assembly which has a white residue remaining after wash.
The board is completely SMT (WS609) using a DI-Wash process, the board is
spotless except for one location. The location is a QFP (from CRONTEL),
the white powder is on the leads of the IC only. There is not a spot on
the PCB.
The Powder dry brushes extremly easily. On a few of the leads ( usually
about half way up the lead, nver near the joint)after brushing there is
evidence of flux residue( yellow sort of like Crystal Flux residue) in
spots.
We have put a few boards through the Omega with readings lower then
2.3microgram/sq.inch.
Could this be something the part manufacture has left/put on the leads? I
have noticed that the plating is thin on the leads (exposed copper on the
faces) the leads also look like sheared stock ( exposed copper on the sides)
Thanks
Andre
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:25:26 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Michael Kuczynski <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Kevlar - Blind vias
MIME-Version: 1.0
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We have a design that requires using Kevlar.
It's a small board 4" x 4" - 8 layers - Double sided SMT only - smallest
finished drill 10MIL via
Due to the nature of the circuitry, I like to do this w/ blind vias (L1-4
and L5-8)
Approx. 50 (total) vias thru the board in 2 locations only
No sharing of PWR or GND planes
Is this able to be done? I've done it w/ FR-4, but realize Kevlar is a
different and difficult material.
Michael Kuczynski Sr. Designer/Librarian
Philips Components LCoS Project
345 Scarborough Rd. 1-914-945-6346 (Ph)
Briarcliff Manor, NY 10510-2099 1-914-945-6798 (Fax)
[log in to unmask]
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">We have a design that requires using Kevlar.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">It's a small board 4" x 4" - 8 layers - Double sided SMT only - smallest finished drill 10MIL via </font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Due to the nature of the circuitry, I like to do this w/ blind vias (L1-4 and L5-8)</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Approx. 50 (total) vias thru the board in 2 locations only</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">No sharing of PWR or GND planes</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Is this able to be done? I've done it w/ FR-4, but realize Kevlar is a different and difficult material. <br>
<br>
Michael Kuczynski Sr. Designer/Librarian<br>
Philips Components LCoS Project<br>
345 Scarborough Rd. 1-914-945-6346 (Ph) <br>
Briarcliff Manor, NY 10510-2099 1-914-945-6798 (Fax)<br>
[log in to unmask]</font>
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:59:09 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brad Saunders <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Kevlar - Blind vias
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hello Michael,
Yes, this is a solid configuration [blind via 1-4 again 5-8 and through vias
1-8], I have used it in the past although usually with higher layer count
subassemblies. Expensive; moreso with Kevla. Allowing .007 plus between the
subs is important to ensure resin will fill PTH. The alternative is to
prefill with either conductive or non conductive material, I am not a huge
advocate of this method. This is based on sequential lamination laser
drilling will result in a large large hole given the aspect ratio of .5/1 to
.9/1. The Kevlar I assume is Thermount and I posted (reply) a long
dissertation on that material yesterday, I assume you read it. The tip of
the day is make your layer 1 to layer 8 vias as boring as possible; big pads
and nice aspect ratio. Remember; boring boards are happy boards. Let me
know if you would like more detailed information; I can go on (and on; and
on).
Boston Brad
781 858 0783
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hello Michael,<BR>
<BR>
Yes, this is a solid configuration [blind via 1-4 again 5-8 and through vias 1-8], I have used it in the past although usually with higher layer count subassemblies. Expensive; moreso with Kevla. Allowing .007 plus between the subs is important to ensure resin will fill PTH. The alternative is to prefill with either conductive or non conductive material, I am not a huge advocate of this method. This is based on sequential lamination laser drilling will result in a large large hole given the aspect ratio of .5/1 to .9/1. The Kevlar I assume is Thermount and I posted (reply) a long dissertation on that material yesterday, I assume you read it. The tip of the day is make your layer 1 to layer 8 vias as boring as possible; big pads and nice aspect ratio. Remember; boring boards are happy boards. Let me know if you would like more detailed information; I can go on <I>(and on; and on)</I>.<BR>
<BR>
Boston Brad<BR>
781 858 0783<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_49.159689a5.2952053d_boundary--
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:19:41 -0500
Reply-To: Tony Steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Tony Steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Circuit Technologies
Subject: Re: Warpage in FR-4
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Bill,
Probably the biggest culprit of warp boards is the cool down cycle during
the press
operation. If the cooling rate temperature is greater than 7 degrees F per
minute this
could induce warp immediately. You stated that you can bend the bare boards
flat.
Do yourself a favor and check a board that you have bent flat after several
hours
and see if the board retains the warp, if so the board has "memory" and is a
sure
sign of a press load that was cooled to quickly. One other point is the
grain direction
of the material could be different from layer to layer which could cause
this situation
also.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kasprzak, Bill (sys) USX <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 8:26 AM
Subject: [TN] Warpage in FR-4
> Holiday Greetings to one and all,
>
> I have an 8 layer FR-4 board that was supposedly built IAW IPC-6011, Class
3
> and IPC-6012, Class 3. The board itself appears to be like any other
board,
> .062" thick, no unusual ground plane layers etc. After wave soldering this
> assembly severely warped. Looking at the bare boards, they are also
warped,
> but can be shaped into a straight position by bending a little. (I
shouldn't
> have to do this.)
>
> Not being up to date on board fabrication techniques, was there anything
in
> the fab process that could lead to a warped board? We're talking a 3/16"
> warp over an 8" length.. Or was there something at my assembly end that is
> introducing the warp. The boards were run in a titanium picture frame
> pallet.
>
> Your thoughts and ideas are greatly appreciated.
>
> Bill Kasprzak
> Moog Inc., Electronic Assembly Engineering
>
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:20:35 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Warpage in FR-4
MIME-Version: 1.0
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If I remember correctly you can build warp into a board by not alternating
the weave in prepreg as the board is put together prior to pressing.
Susan Mansilla
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>If I remember correctly you can build warp into a board by not alternating the weave in prepreg as the board is put together prior to pressing.
<BR>
<BR>Susan Mansilla</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:16:08 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Warpage in FR-4
X-To: "Kasprzak, Bill (esd) USX" <[log in to unmask]>
> Hey Earl,
>
> Thanks for the reply. I gather from your drift that you really gotta screw
> up to make warped boards. With the small number of pieces to run, it's not
> worth investigating. We'll try a different vendor on the next run.
>
> But I kinda like the laced egg nog idea while discussing materials and
> processes. (Not limited to board materials and processes, of course)
>
> Bill Kasprzak
> Moog Inc., Electronic Assembly Engineering
Bill,
Glad to help. I wrote some more stuff for the SMTnet way back when. This
one's for you:
http://www.smtnet.com/express/199909/
Let me know if it comes up as readable. The folks just didn't know how to
convert Word to HTML and some stuff got screwed up in the process. Kind of
like boards at times. I wrote some more stuff there as well but most is
DFM/CE nonsense while trying to get some points across and excercise my
limited wit. It might prove interesting to some and maybe provoke a laugh or
giggle. It's all between July and November 1999. Seems so long ago I almost
forgot it all. Maybe that's good too.
Enjoy,
Earl
By the way, I'm going to post this and your response on the IPC forum, if
you don't mind. Lots of questions and and I have but a few answers but might
be of help to some.
>
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:21:10 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Warpage in FR-4
X-To: Tony Steinke <[log in to unmask]>
Yeh, forgot that cool down thing. Only mentioned poor process management in
general as a function of the entire press cycle. That cross ply thing better
not happen on my shift. Hell, in the printed CIRCUS world, some people work
without nets or, having fallen from one, their brains get a bit messed up
not withstanding the egg nog and all those fun chemicals to sniff. Never
happened to me. Whew!
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:54:33 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Kasprzak, Bill (sys) USX" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Warpage in FR-4
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Earl,
I gotta tell ya, you're really in the swing of the holiday spirit. I get the
feeling this is the beginning of the great holiday barrage of glad tidings
and cheer. I look forward to it. Of course there will be those who wish that
this forum only be used exclusively for business items. But, that's OK. I
wish them Happy Holidays too!
Thanks for all of your help. I'll run with the cool down theory and the
grain and weave direction theories forwarded by Tony and Susan. We'll use a
different vendor on the next run.
Bill Kasprzak
Moog Inc., Electronic Assembly Engineering
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Earl Moon [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 10:21 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Warpage in FR-4
>
> Yeh, forgot that cool down thing. Only mentioned poor process management
> in
> general as a function of the entire press cycle. That cross ply thing
> better
> not happen on my shift. Hell, in the printed CIRCUS world, some people
> work
> without nets or, having fallen from one, their brains get a bit messed up
> not withstanding the egg nog and all those fun chemicals to sniff. Never
> happened to me. Whew!
>
> MoonMan
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:12:40 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Assembly of RF boards
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi technos,
since I see it comming, I better get informed before it hits me. So, any
pitfalls of assembling radio frequency boards?
Is it different than regular class 2 production?
Is no-clean a problem?
Any particular concerns on the incoming inspection side?
Special test requirements or equipment needed?
And so on...
Thanks for the support all through the years and wish you all to enjoy the
season at its fullest.
Ioan
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:18:21 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Assembly of RF boards
X-To: Ioan Tempea <[log in to unmask]>
If the design is manufacturable, much concern can be abated. Above 2 GHz, or
so, gold is needed to support the skin effect requirements getting the
electrons, or holes, on down the line. Gold is the key word here so watch
out for quality issues concerning it.
With a good design, there will be no through holes in SMT pads. They will be
necked down when possible, capped or plated over when blind vias filled, and
MLB constructions will meet specified requirements in terms of material
types (DC, loss tangent, etc.). Some materials may have problems depending
on how well suppliers manage their processes. This has been discussed many
times before but watch out for warpage (especially when using dissimilar
materials such as CLTE laminated to GETEK, as an example). Look also at
board surface conditions and those conditions found in x-sections. Don't
want excessive voiding or any delamination as these conditions will ruin
your day.
Though signal integrity will have been thoroughly thought out and verified
at the design level, TDR testing will be required as well as correlating
findings to MLB constructions, materials, dielectric thicknesses, etc.
As always, limit the rework and or repair when chip devices are involved.
Also, ensure the right devices have been selected through the DFM/CE
process. Just went through a very interesting time doing failure analysis of
GaAs devices though finding the devices not the problem as much as the
circuit protection.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:22:27 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Assembly of RF boards
Forgot about the no clean thing. Boards, and their engineers and designers,
don't want no stuff on circuitry. At very high frequencies, STUFF slows
other stuff down so watch for any residue that may impede signal integrity
and speed.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:01:08 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Assembly of RF boards
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Regarding RF Boards - here's my little collection of thoughts...
Actually Gold is not really necessary to get good RF performance. We built
boards in the 6 GHz range with no surface protection at all... We used OSP
(Organic Soldering Preservative) prior to assembly and just left the
surface as copper after assembly. Papers have been written on the subject
that claim the gold requirement actually is unnecessary, and the copper
oxide that forms on the surface does not seem to affect the performance of
the RF circuit. (of course you will need a good conductive surface where the
board interfaces with shields and such). As far as conductors go, Silver is
the best for RF applications, it has the best conductivity, (better than
gold) and Silver oxide is conductive as well. Silver plating is used inside
High powered cavity filters and in RF applications. Just be aware that it
will combine with sulfur and u must have a sulfur free environment to use
silver or it creates silver sulfide.. a black mess.
We were using a rubber based compound for RF Absorber to reduce reflections
in a RF cavity and discovered this black oxide forming on the silver plated
areas... this was due to the sulfur content in the rubber...
We found that soldermask affects the RF losses in higher frequencies and
chose to use thin stripes of soldermask at right angles to the circuit
traces near the component lands to create solder dams instead of covering
the entire circuit with solder mask. This improved the RF performance. RF
boards will many times have printed components, inductors, capacitors,
filters, mixers, power dividers, couplers... These features are sensitive to
etching tolerances, the final pattern must be held very tightly to the
dimensions in the cad file. Slight changes in the geometry will affect the
performance of the printed component and require tweaking to bring it into
spec. Most other standard techniques for assembly still apply. Some RF
materials are sensitive to moisture and should be handled as such. We used
the LM (low moisture) PTFE based materials from ROGERS for our boards, the
moisture affects the loss tangent of the material... Roger's 4003 or 4004
was a good choice in the bands between 2 and 6 GHz. Peal back of the etch in
handling is a real concern... its not easy to bond anything to Teflon...take
precautions in handling... I remember dropping a PTFE PCB once, it fell on a
corner and wrinkled up like a Ruffles potato chip...
Bill Brooks
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.
DATRON WORLD COMMUNICATIONS, INC
3030 Enterprise Court
Vista, CA 92083
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
mailto:[log in to unmask]
IPC Designers Council, San Diego Chapter
http://www.ipc.org/SanDiego/
http://home.fda.net/bbrooks/pca/pca.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 8:18 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Assembly of RF boards
If the design is manufacturable, much concern can be abated. Above 2 GHz, or
so, gold is needed to support the skin effect requirements getting the
electrons, or holes, on down the line. Gold is the key word here so watch
out for quality issues concerning it.
With a good design, there will be no through holes in SMT pads. They will be
necked down when possible, capped or plated over when blind vias filled, and
MLB constructions will meet specified requirements in terms of material
types (DC, loss tangent, etc.). Some materials may have problems depending
on how well suppliers manage their processes. This has been discussed many
times before but watch out for warpage (especially when using dissimilar
materials such as CLTE laminated to GETEK, as an example). Look also at
board surface conditions and those conditions found in x-sections. Don't
want excessive voiding or any delamination as these conditions will ruin
your day.
Though signal integrity will have been thoroughly thought out and verified
at the design level, TDR testing will be required as well as correlating
findings to MLB constructions, materials, dielectric thicknesses, etc.
As always, limit the rework and or repair when chip devices are involved.
Also, ensure the right devices have been selected through the DFM/CE
process. Just went through a very interesting time doing failure analysis of
GaAs devices though finding the devices not the problem as much as the
circuit protection.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:12:21 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Assembly of RF boards
X-To: Bill Brooks <[log in to unmask]>
Sure like what you, and others, say about gold, OSP's, and silver. Wish you
could convince 90% of the other engineers designing as if some very old
"traditions" had merit.
Also, thermal is a concern. Some of the amps get very hot. Some engineers
really fight using any type thermal transfer improvement as grease or whatever.
Earl Moon
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:43:41 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Assembly of RF boards
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Earl,
Rogers website has a lot of info on materials for RF applications... Some of
the things we learned about RF were not necessarily intuitive. We made
transitions from Wave guide to PCB and from RF connectors, SMA's, N-type,
SMB's etc... Platings and process variations were problems. We typically
used aluminum housings for RF products. Many screw locations to help with
grounding, each discrete circuit was located in a shielded environment with
a small pass thru to allow the RF signal to go on to the next circuit...
originally we mounted all our PTFE boards on aluminum carrier plates and
screwed them to the base. We found that the "one board" approach was the
most cost effective and created a cover from machined aluminum to create the
isolation needed.
Thermal grease is still used in the industry, but nobody likes it. The
silicone 'migrates' all over the inside of the assembly and can dry out in
time and become non-functional. I suggest using the 'Sil-Pad' approach for
thermal transfer where you can... but I doubt you will be able to avoid the
silicone grease entirely.
I saw some cool products for special thermal applications, a sort of foam
loaded with ceramic particles was interesting, its thermal conductivity was
much higher that I expected and it conformed to non-flat surfaces well. I
have seen EMI reducing SIL-PADS used with a foil sandwiched between layers
of silicon rubber that had a soldering tab that could be connected to ground
for instance.
Thermal expansion needs to be accounted for in RF assemblies, I have seen
connecters break their connection to the board or lift the pad just due to
the CTE differences in materials.
Bill Brooks
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.
DATRON WORLD COMMUNICATIONS, INC
3030 Enterprise Court
Vista, CA 92083
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
mailto:[log in to unmask]
IPC Designers Council, San Diego Chapter
http://www.ipc.org/SanDiego/
http://home.fda.net/bbrooks/pca/pca.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Moon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 9:12 AM
To: [log in to unmask]; Bill Brooks
Subject: Re: Assembly of RF boards
Sure like what you, and others, say about gold, OSP's, and silver. Wish you
could convince 90% of the other engineers designing as if some very old
"traditions" had merit.
Also, thermal is a concern. Some of the amps get very hot. Some engineers
really fight using any type thermal transfer improvement as grease or
whatever.
Earl Moon
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:22:31 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Dieselberg, Ron" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Assembly of RF boards
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All you need is a magic wand, some angel dust and a lot of praying and/or
gnashing of teeth. Right MoonMan?
Happy Holidays
Ron Dieselberg
Trainer/Auditor
CMC ELECTRONICS
CINCINNATI
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Tempea, Ioan [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:13 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Assembly of RF boards
Hi technos,
since I see it comming, I better get informed before it hits
me. So, any
pitfalls of assembling radio frequency boards?
Is it different than regular class 2 production?
Is no-clean a problem?
Any particular concerns on the incoming inspection side?
Special test requirements or equipment needed?
And so on...
Thanks for the support all through the years and wish you
all to enjoy the
season at its fullest.
Ioan
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2652.35">
<TITLE>RE: [TN] Assembly of RF boards</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">All you need is a magic wand, some =
angel dust and a lot of praying and/or gnashing of teeth. Right =
MoonMan?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Happy Holidays</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Ron Dieselberg</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">Trainer/Auditor</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CMC ELECTRONICS</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">CINCINNATI</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Courier New">[log in to unmask]</FONT>
</P>
<UL><UL>
<P><A NAME=3D"_MailData"><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----Original =
Message-----</FONT></A>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">From: Tempea, Ioan [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>=
]</FONT></B>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Sent: </FONT></B> <FONT =
SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:13 AM</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">To: </FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">[log in to unmask]</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">Subject: </FONT>=
</B> <FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">[TN] Assembly of RF boards</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hi technos,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">since I see it comming, I better get =
informed before it hits me. So, any</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">pitfalls of assembling radio =
frequency boards?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Is it different than regular class 2 =
production?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Is no-clean a problem?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Any particular concerns on the =
incoming inspection side?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Special test requirements or =
equipment needed?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">And so on...</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thanks for the support all through the =
years and wish you all to enjoy the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">season at its fullest.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Ioan</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">---------------------------------------------------------=
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:09:20 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Assembly of RF boards
X-To: Ron Dieselberg <[log in to unmask]>
Ron,
You sure would think that's what some folks use. Wish I had a big enough
wand, or bat, to get some of those black magic folks to thinking. Use the
dust and teeth gnashing on current future ex girl friend. Oops, there goes
my Christmas.
Thank goodness for guys like you and Bill. Thanks Bill for really laying it
out. Wish I had you with me this summer in Chicago. Might have saved an
entire product line. Sure hope the original questions were answered.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:32:23 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Tempea, Ioan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Assembly of RF boards
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Well,
some of the original questions will surely benefit from the considerations
developed in the previous answers. I still hope I will be able to work it
out without the wand-bat suggested, and this because I should substitute it
with the hockey sticks that are en vogue up here.
A new question is: any on-line resources on RF assemblies? Or any kind of
ressources that a manufacturing engineer, with weak EE background, could
use? You know, the emphasis on components, PCBs, assembly techniques, etc.
Thanks,
Ioan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Earl Moon [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:09 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Assembly of RF boards
>
> Ron,
>
> You sure would think that's what some folks use. Wish I had a big enough
> wand, or bat, to get some of those black magic folks to thinking. Use the
> dust and teeth gnashing on current future ex girl friend. Oops, there goes
> my Christmas.
>
> Thank goodness for guys like you and Bill. Thanks Bill for really laying
> it
> out. Wish I had you with me this summer in Chicago. Might have saved an
> entire product line. Sure hope the original questions were answered.
>
> MoonMan
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> E-mail Archives
> Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for
> additional
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:30:34 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Assembly of RF boards
X-To: Ioan Tempea <[log in to unmask]>
Ioan,
I've had less success instituting DFM/CE with some RF folks than any other.
Times are improving, however, as the need for speed increases. From a
manufacturing engineering perspective, you must be excited about getting
into the fray.
Used to be a neat lady teaching this stuff out in CA. Her company was, and
maybe still is, the Copper Connection. Must be others as well.
Enjoy,
Earl
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:28:34 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Danny W. Harkins" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SMT Test points
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hello TN
I am needing info on a SMT test pin. We need to be able to clip a scope
probe to it and prefer to have it placeable by a P&P machine. Is anyone
using anything of the likes.
Thanks,
Danny
--=_alternative 006A987085256B27_=
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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hello TN</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I am needing info on a SMT test pin. We need to be able to clip a scope probe to it and prefer to have it placeable by a P&P machine. Is anyone using anything of the likes. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thanks,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Danny</font>
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:41:44 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi All,
Can anyone remember the equivalent Mil spec for IPC-A-610?
Is it MIL-STD-454?
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:46:01 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Alan Kreplick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hans,
Try Mil-Std-2000A or Mil-Std-2000. Or their predecessor WS-6536 (my
favorite).
Al Kreplick
Teradyne, Inc.
(Embedded
image moved TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
to file: 12/19/2001 02:41 PM
pic24901.pcx)
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hi All,
Can anyone remember the equivalent Mil spec for IPC-A-610?
Is it MIL-STD-454?
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:44:57 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kathy Kuhlow <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SMT Test points
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_C499D55E.9DFC91BD"
This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
properly handle MIME multipart messages.
--=_C499D55E.9DFC91BD
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Try keystone, we have used their sm test points before. Worked out pretty =
good. Keystone #5015 or 5016. We used the 5015 minature version. =20
Kathy=20
--=_C499D55E.9DFC91BD
Content-Type: text/plain
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<BODY
style="FONT: 10pt Abadi MT Condensed Light; MARGIN-LEFT: 2px; MARGIN-TOP: 2px">
<DIV>Try keystone, we have used their sm test points before. Worked out
pretty good. Keystone #5015 or 5016. We used the 5015 minature
version. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kathy </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:52:41 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Barry Gallegos <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Could that may be be MIL-2000A
-----Original Message-----
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 12:42 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hi All,
Can anyone remember the equivalent Mil spec for IPC-A-610?
Is it MIL-STD-454?
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:55:50 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Duggan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes, I believe you are correct. It's been a few years, but that rings a
bell.
Mike Duggan
-----Original Message-----
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:42 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hi All,
Can anyone remember the equivalent Mil spec for IPC-A-610?
Is it MIL-STD-454?
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:53:35 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Thorup, John" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SMT Test points
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
We like the E-Mark TPs in the 0805 size. They come on 8mm tape and reel and
the machine likes them. www.E-MarkInc.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Danny W. Harkins [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:29 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] SMT Test points
>
>
> Hello TN
>
> I am needing info on a SMT test pin. We need to be able to clip a scope
> probe to it and prefer to have it placeable by a P&P machine. Is anyone
> using anything of the likes.
>
> Thanks,
> Danny
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:02:45 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Optimum Method to Apply Solder Paste to PWB's for BGA
Application s?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Dave,
You write:
>As a self-described proponent of flux only mounting of BGA, please help us
>understand the impact on product reliability of reduced solder in these
connections.
I am with the Moonman on this. SJ reliability is affected by solder joint
height, not very much by solder volume. In fact, data show that
'hour-glass'-shaped SJs have slightly greater reliabiliity than
'barrel'-shaped ones.
Werner Engelmaier
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:09:58 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mel Parrish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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Hans
The only standard from the Mil specs that expressly addressed acceptability
like 610 was the DOD-STD-2000, Volume 3. The other standards like
MIL-STD-2000 and 2000, Rev A included acceptability as would be equivalent
to J-STD-001.
Mel Parrish
Soldering Technology International
Madison, AL
256 705 5530
256 705 5538 Fax
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Hinners Hans M Civ
WRALC/LUGE
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:42 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hi All,
Can anyone remember the equivalent Mil spec for IPC-A-610?
Is it MIL-STD-454?
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:12:35 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Dupuis, Dave" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SMT Test points
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 02:28 PM 12/19/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello TN
>
>I am needing info on a SMT test pin. We need to be able to clip a scope
>probe to it and prefer to have it placeable by a P&P machine. Is anyone
>using anything of the likes.
>
>Thanks,
>Danny
Take a look at Components Corporation (www.componentscorp.com) They have
some tape and reel test points that might fit your application.
Dave
David DuPuis, Associate Engineer
Rice Lake Weighing Systems
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:07:58 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello Fellow Techies,
Thanks for the comments!
The original drawings are from the late 80's and we're conformally coating
the assembly instead of using an insulating foam so I get to change/improve
things.
MIL-STD-2000 came out after the drawings (which reference MIL-STD-454). And
then there's the disconnect when both specs got canceled without an
identified replacement. I'd rather identify a non-government specification
supporting DOD's decision to get out of the spec. business. (They had
better solder the thing to J-STD-001 or I've got bigger problems than
getting a good coating.)
Happy Holidays.
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
-----Original Message-----
From: Mel Parrish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 5:10 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hans
The only standard from the Mil specs that expressly addressed acceptability
like 610 was the DOD-STD-2000, Volume 3. The other standards like
MIL-STD-2000 and 2000, Rev A included acceptability as would be equivalent
to J-STD-001.
Mel Parrish
Soldering Technology International
Madison, AL
256 705 5530
256 705 5538 Fax
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Hinners Hans M Civ
WRALC/LUGE
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:42 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hi All,
Can anyone remember the equivalent Mil spec for IPC-A-610?
Is it MIL-STD-454?
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:21:06 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Greg Scott <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Cray Inc
Subject: Re: SMT Test points
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------A9486A385456B5B36B505A1E"
--------------A9486A385456B5B36B505A1E
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Samtec has these, but be careful of 2 pin SMT parts. They want to break
off during handling.
we findly had to go 4 pin test points and use 2 pin only in center of
board or where protected
by tall components. Also testpoints atleast Samtec damage anti static
bags that board assemblies are shipped in.
Greg Scott
Cray Inc
"Danny W. Harkins" wrote:
>
> Hello TN
>
> I am needing info on a SMT test pin. We need to be able to clip a
> scope probe to it and prefer to have it placeable by a P&P machine. Is
> anyone using anything of the likes.
>
> Thanks,
> Danny
--------------A9486A385456B5B36B505A1E
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<br>Samtec has these, but be careful of 2 pin SMT parts. They want
to break off during handling.
<br>we findly had to go 4 pin test points and use 2 pin only in center
of board or where protected
<br>by tall components. Also testpoints atleast Samtec damage anti
static bags that board assemblies are shipped in.
<p>Greg Scott
<br>Cray Inc
<p>"Danny W. Harkins" wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br><font face="sans-serif"><font size=-1>Hello TN</font></font>
<p><font face="sans-serif"><font size=-1>I am needing info on a SMT test
pin. We need to be able to clip a scope probe to it and prefer to have
it placeable by a P&P machine. Is anyone using anything of the likes.</font></font>
<p><font face="sans-serif"><font size=-1>Thanks,</font></font>
<br><font face="sans-serif"><font size=-1>Danny</font></font></blockquote>
</html>
--------------A9486A385456B5B36B505A1E--
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:30:48 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mel Parrish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hans
Depending on the exact year, the 454 (Requirement 5?) reference could be to
any number of standards including WS-6536 or 45743, but you are very correct
they were eliminated without any identified replacement. J-STD-001 has a
recent DoD adoption notice that I can send if you like, or you can get it
from IPC directly.
Mel
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Hinners Hans M Civ
WRALC/LUGE
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:08 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hello Fellow Techies,
Thanks for the comments!
The original drawings are from the late 80's and we're conformally coating
the assembly instead of using an insulating foam so I get to change/improve
things.
MIL-STD-2000 came out after the drawings (which reference MIL-STD-454). And
then there's the disconnect when both specs got canceled without an
identified replacement. I'd rather identify a non-government specification
supporting DOD's decision to get out of the spec. business. (They had
better solder the thing to J-STD-001 or I've got bigger problems than
getting a good coating.)
Happy Holidays.
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
-----Original Message-----
From: Mel Parrish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 5:10 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hans
The only standard from the Mil specs that expressly addressed acceptability
like 610 was the DOD-STD-2000, Volume 3. The other standards like
MIL-STD-2000 and 2000, Rev A included acceptability as would be equivalent
to J-STD-001.
Mel Parrish
Soldering Technology International
Madison, AL
256 705 5530
256 705 5538 Fax
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Hinners Hans M Civ
WRALC/LUGE
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:42 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hi All,
Can anyone remember the equivalent Mil spec for IPC-A-610?
Is it MIL-STD-454?
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:45:59 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrick Lam <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Wave solder 0603
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi TechNetters,
I need some advice on putting 0603 parts on the bottom. Should the footprint be
different than the one for reflow? What is the preferred footprint? Is it a good
pratice to use both glue dots and solder paste for wave sodering?
Thanks,
Patrick
This e-mail may contain SEL confidential information. The opinions expressed
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:10:43 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brad Saunders <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The MIL and/or DOD-2000 are the easy answers, I am a "MIL" kinda guy and the
link is with reliability I would go with the J-STD-001 AND watch for ESD;
provided it meets existing process and foremost is in agreement with all
parties especially the Contract. If the old doc is pre "2000" (the spec not
the year), my guess it is the beloved (and replaced by the 2000) MIL-A-28809.
The 28809 brought us things like different color wires for rework verses
programmable, number of allowable reworks, double dipping of gold leads, no
conformal coat in the connector, discernible lead, etc...
aaah it was a wonderful life...
The even older weapons spec ~45743 (ish) was the one that stated "vias to be
solder plugged" it was a pretty hefty club for inspectors who woke up on
wrong side of bed.
Regardless of the spec used I recommend the old saying "when in doubt, spell
it out." Good timing for solid heritage in ISO.
Boston Brad
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:49:39 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: mesh size
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Content-type: multipart/alternative;
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I am currently using a -325 mesh solder paste, we just started using 0201 components. Will a finer mesh solder give me more uniform solder application with the smaller apertures?
Dan
--Boundary_(ID_DVdR2r0Y3HEfh6RCIW826w)
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<DIV><FONT size=2>I am currently using a -325 mesh solder paste, we just started
using 0201 components. Will a finer mesh solder give me more uniform solder
application with the smaller apertures?</FONT></DIV>
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:24:19 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Adam Seychell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: tin compatalbe etchants
This is good news to hear, Rudy. We are small workshop building PCBs for
prototyping and discovered the alkaline ammonium sulfate some years ago.
The reason for choosing of this etchant was the fact it can be
electrolytically regenerated. However it seems like one of the
slowest etchants around. The boards are all bright tin finish and since
alkaline sulfate is best known etchants for tin resists it'll be best to
stay with what I've got.
Alkaline ammonium sulfate etching is virtually unheard of in Australian
pcb shops. I think we're the only mob in this country to be using it. Do you
know how common this etchant is used around the world ?
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:56:57 +0530
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Wave solder 0603
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Pat,
The footprint for wave soldering is ofcourse diferent than the one for
reflow, the difference being the extra protrusion of the pad outside the
component termination and also the gap between the two pads.
Also to be taken care is the orientation of the chip components. Preferably
they should be perpendicular to the PCB flow direction, thus enabling both
the pads to contact the wave simultaneously. This will have the most visible
effect on the tall bodied ceramic caps. In case the comps are parallel to
the PCB flow direction, for the tall bodied caps you'll see insufficient or
no solder at the trailing pad. However, if you have the dual wave soldering
machine, this effect will be minimized, if not eliminated.
For wave soldering SMTs, you need to glue them in order to hold them in
place during wave soldering. Where does the solder paste come into the
picture? What is your purpose of using the solder paste? Not required!
Hope this info is of use.
Regards
Vinit
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Lam [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 3:16 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Wave solder 0603
Hi TechNetters,
I need some advice on putting 0603 parts on the bottom. Should the footprint
be
different than the one for reflow? What is the preferred footprint? Is it a
good
pratice to use both glue dots and solder paste for wave sodering?
Thanks,
Patrick
This e-mail may contain SEL confidential information. The opinions
expressed
are not necessarily those of SEL. Any unauthorized disclosure, distribution
or
other use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please
notify
the sender, permanently delete it, and destroy any printout. Thank you.
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:20:27 +0530
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: MA Ranganath/SMPLB/SEC/SANMAR <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: iINFO ON PROCESSING OF MULTILAYER PCB's USING CIC AS CORE /BOND
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
dear all,
We are member of the IPC for the last fifteen years and has been very
beneficial and extremely useful for us.
We have also been a manufacturer of Multilayer PCBs of higher layer counts
(8 to 18 layers) with aluminum
core and thermal bond options . These are being use for high end
professional end applications in the areas
of Space and Avionics.
We are interested in knowing the following details as per the subject
above.
a) Surface preparation of CIC material of different grades and
thicknesses.
b) Material and method of Insulation (electrical) for the different inner
layers and the CIC Core layer
c) Method of Insulation and Connectivity for the PTH with CIC Core and
inner layers including Through,Burried,
BLIND and Interconnection holes
d)Any specific parameters differences from the normal CCL/PREPREG-FR4
combination for critical processes
like electroless.desmear/etchback,drilling etc.,for the CIC C ORE
Integrated PCBs
Request your valuable feedback to our queries
Regards,
M A Ranganath
GM - Engineering & Quality
Sanmar Micropack Limited
Plot No.16, Jigani Industrial Area,
Bangalore - 562 106. INDIA
Phone: 91 - 80 - 7825223/224/226/389
Fax : 91 - 80 - 7825225
Email : [log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:36:42 +0800
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 13:10:07 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Edward Szpruch <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Laser drilled microvias & oxide subsitution
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi,
Some days ago I was told,that target pads in YAG laser drilled microvias are
suffering of "like pink-ring" phenomena after permanganate desmear if the
target layer is treated by "oxide substitution" based on peroxide ( such as
Multibond,Cobra bond,Circubond,Alphaprep etc).
What are comments on such statement??
Happy X-mass
Edward
Edward Szpruch
Eltek Ltd
P.O.Box 159 ; 49101 Petah Tikva Israel
Tel ++972 3 9395050 , Fax ++972 3 9309581
e-mail [log in to unmask]
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 06:51:26 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Marsico, James" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Is the adoption notice available on the IPC web site?
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: Mel Parrish [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 6:31 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hans
Depending on the exact year, the 454 (Requirement 5?) reference
could be to
any number of standards including WS-6536 or 45743, but you are very
correct
they were eliminated without any identified replacement. J-STD-001
has a
recent DoD adoption notice that I can send if you like, or you can
get it
from IPC directly.
Mel
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Hinners Hans M
Civ
WRALC/LUGE
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:08 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hello Fellow Techies,
Thanks for the comments!
The original drawings are from the late 80's and we're conformally
coating
the assembly instead of using an insulating foam so I get to
change/improve
things.
MIL-STD-2000 came out after the drawings (which reference
MIL-STD-454). And
then there's the disconnect when both specs got canceled without an
identified replacement. I'd rather identify a non-government
specification
supporting DOD's decision to get out of the spec. business. (They
had
better solder the thing to J-STD-001 or I've got bigger problems
than
getting a good coating.)
Happy Holidays.
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
-----Original Message-----
From: Mel Parrish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 5:10 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hans
The only standard from the Mil specs that expressly addressed
acceptability
like 610 was the DOD-STD-2000, Volume 3. The other standards like
MIL-STD-2000 and 2000, Rev A included acceptability as would be
equivalent
to J-STD-001.
Mel Parrish
Soldering Technology International
Madison, AL
256 705 5530
256 705 5538 Fax
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Hinners Hans M
Civ
WRALC/LUGE
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:42 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hi All,
Can anyone remember the equivalent Mil spec for IPC-A-610?
Is it MIL-STD-454?
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:31:35 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Environmental issues
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There have recently been some threads here on environmental issues, with
the usual messages from some that they were not in context with the
purpose of the list.
If I receive sufficient support (say, 20 or more messages), offline, to
my private e-mail address ( [log in to unmask] ), I'll open a Yahoo
newsgroup devoted entirely to environmental issues within industry. This
will be cost-free, open to all, without reasonable restriction of
subject, which will allow those who are interested to continue these
discussions to their heart's content and without upsetting the
sensitivities of those who consider such threads as inappropriate here.
Please note that this is not in competition with the IPC but as a
complement.
Best regards,
Brian
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:03:21 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Vivari, John" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: mesh size
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Dan,
Assuming your aspect ratio is right, a good -325 mesh solder paste is
capable and consistent to 0.4mm apertures so a smaller mesh should not be
necessary. The benefit vs cost comparison is poor. Below 0.4mm a -400 or
-500 mesh (depending upon aperture size) gives a marked improvement in
depoist consistency due to the ball size to aperture size ratio. If your
paste has trouble with 0.5mm apertures in general, then a -400 is probably
in order for the 0201 process.
John Vivari
Technical Service Engineer
EFD Inc.
www.efd-inc.com
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Ph: 401-333-3800 x2204
Fx: 401-333-4954
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:49:39 -0800
From: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: mesh size
I am currently using a -325 mesh solder paste, we just started using 0201
components. Will a finer mesh solder give me more uniform solder application
with the smaller apertures?
Dan
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dan,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Assuming your aspect ratio is right, a good -325 mesh =
solder paste is capable and consistent to 0.4mm apertures so a smaller =
mesh should not be necessary. The benefit vs cost comparison is =
poor. Below 0.4mm a -400 or -500 mesh (depending upon aperture =
size) gives a marked improvement in depoist consistency due to the ball =
size to aperture size ratio. If your paste has trouble with 0.5mm =
apertures in general, then a -400 is probably in order for the 0201 =
process.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>John Vivari</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Technical Service Engineer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>EFD Inc.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>www.efd-inc.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>>&n=
bsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ph: 401-333-3800 x2204</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Fx: 401-333-4954</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 14:49:39 =
-0800</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: "Dan R. Johnson" =
<[log in to unmask]></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: mesh size</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I am currently using a -325 mesh solder paste, we =
just started using 0201 components. Will a finer mesh solder give me =
more uniform solder application with the smaller apertures?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dan</FONT>
</P>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:55:24 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: tin compatible etchants
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When you suggest that the ammonium sulfate etchant is the "best" for Tin, you
have to watch your definition of "best", as most people would much prefer to
put on more Tin, and be able to etch faster.
Because most people are in a situation where they can return spent etchant,
and they want the speed, the sulfate based etchant is virtually unheard of in
the world.
I am not familiar with anyone using this etchant anymore, but I also am not
aware of what most of the east coast of the US is doing.
Rudy Sedlak
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:08:12 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Kris Keating <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: porosity of gold plating on nickel
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hello,
I am trying to do a nitric acid porosity test on gold plating, but the lab
here does not have sodium sulfide crystals to make a polysulfide reagent for
the test. Is there a suitable substitute reagent that can be used for this?
Kris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Mazzoli [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:50 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] porosity of gold plating on nickel
>
> Hi Kris,
> Try IPC TM-650 2.3.24.2 Nitric Vapor Test. That's the easiest one I'm
> aware of.
> Here's a link:http://www.ipc.org/html/2.3.24.2.pdf
>
> Mark Mazzoli
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 02:30 PM 12/13/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >Does anyone know of a fairly simple method of determining porosity of
> gold
> >plating over nickel on a PCB?
> >
> >
> >Kristopher J. Keating
> >Technical Service Engineer
> >Circuit-Wise, Inc.
> >400 Sackett Point Rd.
> >North Haven, CT 06473
> >Tel. (203) 281-6511
> >Fax (203) 287-8409
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
>
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 07:18:37 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Dan R. Johnson" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: mesh size
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Thanks John, this confirms what I thought. I don't know if you could say the aspect ratio is "right" but I am using a .13X.26mm paste pad. This is an Rf application and the design engineer is adamant that all component pads be as small as possible.
You mentioned the ball size to aperture size ratio, is there a "rule of thumb" for this?
Dan
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<DIV><FONT size=2>Thanks John, this confirms what I thought. I don't know if you
could say the aspect ratio is "right" but I am using a .13X.26mm paste pad. This
is an Rf application and the design engineer is adamant that all component pads
be as small as possible. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>You mentioned the ball size to aperture size ratio, is there a
"rule of thumb" for this?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Dan</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:51:19 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: mesh size
Dan,
The rule of thumb that I had heard from a solder paste application engineer
was that you should be able to fit 8 solder balls across your smallest
aperture width.
I am not sure your 0201 solder paste aperture will work very well (unless
you made a typo). .13mm x .26mm is really, really small. If your foil size
is .076mm
(.003") or greater, your aspect ratio is below .6
You really need to be around .3mm x .35mm or .34mm square if your foil size
is .13mm. This puts your AAR over .66
Steve A
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan R. Johnson [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday,December 20,2001 8:19 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] mesh size
>
> Thanks John, this confirms what I thought. I don't know if you could say
> the aspect ratio is "right" but I am using a .13X.26mm paste pad. This is
> an Rf application and the design engineer is adamant that all component
> pads be as small as possible.
> You mentioned the ball size to aperture size ratio, is there a "rule of
> thumb" for this?
> Dan
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:51:37 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Environmental issues
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Brian,
There is already a forum called compliancenet, just like technet but
compliance related. Very little activity there but if you're interested it's
there.
Steve Wentz
Florida CirTech
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:04:48 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Wave solder 0603
Patrick,
If your adhesive process is capable of placing adhesive for 0603 components,
and you are using a selective solder process where solder paste is already
applied to the bottom side, then I would recommend solder paste. This way
you do not need to alter your component pad size for the 0603 components.
You also do not need to worry about knocking off components during the
handling process at TH insertion. Another thing is that if you have tall
actives on the bottom side, and are thus using a very thick selective solder
process, I noticed that the small amount of adhesive used for 0603s is not
always strong enough to handle the solder wave as it crashes into the
selective solder pallet opening. These SMT adhesives were typically
designed to withstand 8lbs of shear that is seen over a typical single or
dual wave process. Depending on your selective solder pallet thickness, the
part could see 2 or 3 times that force.
Steve A
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Lam [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday,December 19,2001 2:46 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Wave solder 0603
>
> Hi TechNetters,
>
> I need some advice on putting 0603 parts on the bottom. Should the
> footprint be
> different than the one for reflow? What is the preferred footprint? Is it
> a good
> pratice to use both glue dots and solder paste for wave sodering?
>
> Thanks,
> Patrick
> This e-mail may contain SEL confidential information. The opinions
> expressed
> are not necessarily those of SEL. Any unauthorized disclosure,
> distribution or
> other use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please
> notify
> the sender, permanently delete it, and destroy any printout. Thank you.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:12:32 -0700
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve Abrahamson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: white powder on leads
Andre,
The powder could simple just be oxides (tin oxides mostly). The flux will
remove them from the bond area, and the loose oxides will float on the
solder and often end up at the top areas of the solder joint. The area
untouched by the flux will also have some oxidation.
I was going to make a joke about powdered donut residue, but I realize that
the technet is pretty serious. Happy Holidays everyone...he he..
Steve A
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andre Leclair [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday,December 19,2001 6:57 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] white powder on leads
>
> Hi All
>
> Here is another residue issue
>
> We have an assembly which has a white residue remaining after wash.
> The board is completely SMT (WS609) using a DI-Wash process, the board is
> spotless except for one location. The location is a QFP (from CRONTEL),
> the white powder is on the leads of the IC only. There is not a spot on
> the PCB.
>
> The Powder dry brushes extremly easily. On a few of the leads ( usually
> about half way up the lead, nver near the joint)after brushing there is
> evidence of flux residue( yellow sort of like Crystal Flux residue) in
> spots.
> We have put a few boards through the Omega with readings lower then
> 2.3microgram/sq.inch.
>
> Could this be something the part manufacture has left/put on the leads? I
> have noticed that the plating is thin on the leads (exposed copper on the
> faces) the leads also look like sheared stock ( exposed copper on the
> sides)
>
> Thanks
> Andre
>
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:06:02 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Lush, Dorothy (FPTI)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Voiding on BGA with uVias
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Peter,
Voiding is worse with a poorly formed or damaged via/micro-via. I have seen
some crushed vias where the side wall buckle produce some stupendous
voiding. Voiding happens worse with vias that are narrower at the top
surface of the board because solder has a more difficlt time filling the
hole at solder printing. Remember most no-clean solder is 50% flux by volume
and the volatiles need to do their thing and leave. Some think that trapped
volatiles and flux when they cannot leave become viscous clumps in the via
hole and then when the eutechtic BGA ball collapses the clump moves up into
the ball. This gets worse with a site that goes through a double reflow
process. One suggestion is to fill and plate over these vias so this cannot
happen. Another suggestion is to offset the via from the center to about 2
mils from the pad edge so the clumping happens outside the component ball.
Regards,
Dorothy Lush
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Lee [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:20 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Voiding on BGA with uVias
Hello,
We have encountered major BGA voiding issue. The void is sometimes up to
70% of the joint. Under X-ray inspection we found a blind 0.006" uVia,
0.01" deep under each void. Other BGA solder joint on board w/o uVias do
not have any void problems. Board is gold over Nickel finish and 2mm
thick.
Things we tried:
Reflow profile - WS/ no-clean paste, longer soak
Washing/ baking the bare PCB
Reworked by cleaning the uVias/pads and filled with solder but still
seeing void
Has anyone seen this before? Micro-sectioning clearly showed the void
originated from the uVia. We are trying to convince the board house that
it's not our process.
Rgds,
Peter
_________________________________________________________
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Peter,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Voiding is worse with a poorly formed or damaged =
via/micro-via. I have seen some crushed vias where the side wall buckle =
produce some stupendous voiding. Voiding happens worse with vias that =
are narrower at the top surface of the board because solder has a more =
difficlt time filling the hole at solder printing. Remember most =
no-clean solder is 50% flux by volume and the volatiles need to do =
their thing and leave. Some think that trapped volatiles and flux when =
they cannot leave become viscous clumps in the via hole and then when =
the eutechtic BGA ball collapses the clump moves up into the ball. This =
gets worse with a site that goes through a double reflow process. One =
suggestion is to fill and plate over these vias so this cannot happen. =
Another suggestion is to offset the via from the center to about 2 mils =
from the pad edge so the clumping happens outside the component =
ball.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regards,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dorothy Lush</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Peter Lee [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:20 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: [log in to unmask]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: [TN] Voiding on BGA with uVias</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hello,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>We have encountered major BGA voiding issue. The void =
is sometimes up to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>70% of the joint. Under X-ray inspection we found a =
blind 0.006" uVia,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>0.01" deep under each void. Other BGA solder =
joint on board w/o uVias do</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>not have any void problems. Board is gold over =
Nickel finish and 2mm</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>thick.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Things we tried:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Reflow profile - WS/ no-clean paste, longer =
soak</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Washing/ baking the bare PCB</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Reworked by cleaning the uVias/pads and filled with =
solder but still</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>seeing void</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Has anyone seen this before? Micro-sectioning clearly =
showed the void</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>originated from the uVia. We are trying to convince =
the board house that</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>it's not our process.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Rgds,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Peter</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<P><FONT =
SIZE=3D2>_________________________________________________________</FONT=
>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Do You Yahoo!?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Get your free @yahoo.com address at <A =
HREF=3D"http://mail.yahoo.com" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://mail.yahoo.com</A></FONT>
</P>
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:32:22 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Joseph Fjelstad <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Environmental issues
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Hello Steve,
"Compliance" as a term seems to be more in tune with navigating the
bureaucracy that oversees policy and less about visiting upon the real
issues. Which is what I believe Brian is proposing.
Kind regards,
Joe
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hello Steve,
<BR>
<BR>"Compliance" as a term seems to be more in tune with navigating the bureaucracy that oversees policy and less about visiting upon the real issues. Which is what I believe Brian is proposing.
<BR>
<BR>Kind regards,
<BR>Joe </FONT></HTML>
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 13:29:16 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Vivari, John" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: mesh size
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Dan,
First, I need to correct myself. -325 mesh solder paste should be capable
to 0.2mm apertures. You don't need -400 till you hit 0.15mm and -500 at
0.1mm.
There is a rule of thumb. The smallest dimension on an aperture should be
no less than 1.5 times the thickness of the stencil foil. So, for a .15mm x
.26mm aperture, the maximum foil thickness should less than or equal to 0.15
/ 1.5 = 0.1mm = about 4 mils. You are probably better off going with 3mil
foil just to be on the safe side and I sincerely hope you are using metal
blades of some sort.
As a point of reference to work that has been done with 0201s, the May 2001
Circuits Assembly publication has a well written report on 0201 processing.
The pad sizes used in their study are quite a bit larger than your designer
proposes and that leads me to wonder what testing he has performed to ensure
his design is sound. At roughly 50% by volume metal in solder paste, you
have very little alloy to go around in your proposed deposit.
John Vivari
Technical Service Engineer
EFD Inc.
Ph: 401-333-3800 x2204
Fx: 401-333-4954
------_=_NextPart_001_01C18984.3B51FA64
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>Re: mesh size</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dan,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>First, I need to correct myself. -325 mesh =
solder paste should be capable to 0.2mm apertures. You don't need =
-400 till you hit 0.15mm and -500 at 0.1mm. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>There is a rule of thumb. The smallest =
dimension on an aperture should be no less than 1.5 times the thickness =
of the stencil foil. So, for a .15mm x .26mm aperture, the =
maximum foil thickness should less than or equal to 0.15 / 1.5 =3D =
0.1mm =3D about 4 mils. You are probably better off going with =
3mil foil just to be on the safe side and I sincerely hope you are =
using metal blades of some sort.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>As a point of reference to work that has been done =
with 0201s, the May 2001 Circuits Assembly publication has a well =
written report on 0201 processing. The pad sizes used in their =
study are quite a bit larger than your designer proposes and that leads =
me to wonder what testing he has performed to ensure his design is =
sound. At roughly 50% by volume metal in solder paste, you have =
very little alloy to go around in your proposed deposit.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>John Vivari</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Technical Service Engineer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>EFD Inc.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ph: 401-333-3800 x2204</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Fx: 401-333-4954</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:45:28 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Favorite SPC tools
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Is anyone out there using a plant wide SPC software tool?
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:27:12 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Dan Cavaliere>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Favorite SPC tools
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We are using a program called InfinityQS throughout our plant. We are
using it for both variable and attribute data.
Go to http://www.infinityqs.com
Dan Cavaliere
Baxter Healthcare
Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
12/20/01 04:45 PM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum."
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: [TN] Favorite SPC tools
Is anyone out there using a plant wide SPC software tool?
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<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">We are using a program called Infini=
tyQS throughout our plant. We are using it for both variable and attr=
ibute data.</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Go to </font><a href=3D"þu"><fo=
nt size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"sans-serif">http://www.infinityqs.com</fon=
t></a>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Dan Cavaliere</font>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Baxter Healthcare</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>Guy Ramsey <[log in to unmask]
></b></font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]
></font>
<p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">12/20/01 04:45 PM</font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Please respond to "TechNet E-Ma=
il Forum."</font>
<br>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"Arial"> </font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"> To: &nbs=
p; [log in to unmask]</font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"> cc: &nbs=
p; </font>
<br><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"> Subject:=
[TN] Favorite SPC tools</font></table>
<br>
<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">Is anyone out there using a plant w=
ide SPC software tool?<br>
<br>
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:30:40 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mel Parrish <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Jim!
Didn't find it on the site, but IPC is fixin (Alabamese) to put it on. In
fact it may be there by time this is posted. It is also attached.
Mel Parrish
Soldering Technology International
Madison, AL
256 705 5530
256 705 5538 Fax
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Marsico, James
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 3:51 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Is the adoption notice available on the IPC web site?
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: Mel Parrish [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 6:31 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hans
Depending on the exact year, the 454 (Requirement 5?) reference
could be to
any number of standards including WS-6536 or 45743, but you are very
correct
they were eliminated without any identified replacement. J-STD-001
has a
recent DoD adoption notice that I can send if you like, or you can
get it
from IPC directly.
Mel
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Hinners Hans M
Civ
WRALC/LUGE
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:08 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hello Fellow Techies,
Thanks for the comments!
The original drawings are from the late 80's and we're conformally
coating
the assembly instead of using an insulating foam so I get to
change/improve
things.
MIL-STD-2000 came out after the drawings (which reference
MIL-STD-454). And
then there's the disconnect when both specs got canceled without an
identified replacement. I'd rather identify a non-government
specification
supporting DOD's decision to get out of the spec. business. (They
had
better solder the thing to J-STD-001 or I've got bigger problems
than
getting a good coating.)
Happy Holidays.
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
-----Original Message-----
From: Mel Parrish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 5:10 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hans
The only standard from the Mil specs that expressly addressed
acceptability
like 610 was the DOD-STD-2000, Volume 3. The other standards like
MIL-STD-2000 and 2000, Rev A included acceptability as would be
equivalent
to J-STD-001.
Mel Parrish
Soldering Technology International
Madison, AL
256 705 5530
256 705 5538 Fax
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Hinners Hans M
Civ
WRALC/LUGE
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:42 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hi All,
Can anyone remember the equivalent Mil spec for IPC-A-610?
Is it MIL-STD-454?
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:43:13 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jack Crawford <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: DoD Adoption of IPC/EIA J-STD-001C and IPC-HDBK-001C
Mime-Version: 1.0
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No, not right now but.... Post holiday I'll set it up as a download link =
from the bookstore but APEX is on my shoulders right now. In the =
meantime, I've set up a rule so you can download it.
send an email to: [log in to unmask]
subject line copy in this character string just like it is here: request =
J-001-DOD
body can be anything but best to put your name/phone so we can assist if =
there are any problems.
jack
>>> [log in to unmask] 12/20/01 05:51AM >>>
Is the adoption notice available on the IPC web site?
Jim Marsico
Senior Engineer
Production Engineering
EDO Electronics Systems Group
[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
631-595-5879
-----Original Message-----
From: Mel Parrish [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 6:31 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hans
Depending on the exact year, the 454 (Requirement 5?) reference
could be to
any number of standards including WS-6536 or 45743, but you are =
very
correct
they were eliminated without any identified replacement. =
J-STD-001
has a
recent DoD adoption notice that I can send if you like, or you can
get it
from IPC directly.
Mel
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Hinners Hans M
Civ
WRALC/LUGE
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:08 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hello Fellow Techies,
Thanks for the comments!
The original drawings are from the late 80's and we're conformally
coating
the assembly instead of using an insulating foam so I get to
change/improve
things.
MIL-STD-2000 came out after the drawings (which reference
MIL-STD-454). And
then there's the disconnect when both specs got canceled without =
an
identified replacement. I'd rather identify a non-government
specification
supporting DOD's decision to get out of the spec. business. (They
had
better solder the thing to J-STD-001 or I've got bigger problems
than
getting a good coating.)
Happy Holidays.
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We =
Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
-----Original Message-----
From: Mel Parrish [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 5:10 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hans
The only standard from the Mil specs that expressly addressed
acceptability
like 610 was the DOD-STD-2000, Volume 3. The other standards like
MIL-STD-2000 and 2000, Rev A included acceptability as would be
equivalent
to J-STD-001.
Mel Parrish
Soldering Technology International
Madison, AL
256 705 5530
256 705 5538 Fax
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Hinners Hans M
Civ
WRALC/LUGE
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:42 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Mil Spec Equivalent for IPC-A-610
Hi All,
Can anyone remember the equivalent Mil spec for IPC-A-610?
Is it MIL-STD-454?
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We =
Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 2px; FONT: 8pt MS Sans Serif; MARGIN-LEFT: =
2px">
<DIV><FONT size=3D1></FONT>No, not right now but.... Post holiday =
I'll set=20
it up as a download link from the bookstore but APEX is on my shoulders =
right=20
now. In the meantime, I've set up a rule so you can download =
it.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>send an email to: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>subject line copy in this character string just like it is here: =
request=20
J-001-DOD</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>body can be anything but best to put your name/phone so we can assist =
if=20
there are any problems.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>jack<BR><BR>>>> [log in to unmask] 12/20/01 05:51AM=20
>>><BR>Is the adoption notice available on the IPC web site?<BR><B=
R>Jim=20
Marsico<BR>Senior Engineer<BR>Production Engineering<BR>EDO Electronics =
Systems=20
Group<BR>[log in to unmask] <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</A>>=
;<BR>631-595-5879<BR><BR><BR><BR> =
=20
-----Original Message-----<BR> =20=
From: Mel Parrish=20
[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]<BR> &n=
bsp;=20
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 6:31=20
PM<BR> To:  =
;=20
[log in to unmask]<BR> =20
Subject: Re: [TN] Mil Spec =
Equivalent=20
for IPC-A-610<BR><BR> =20
Hans<BR> Depending on the exact =
year,=20
the 454 (Requirement 5?) reference<BR>could be=20
to<BR> any number of standards=20=
including WS-6536 or 45743, but you are=20
very<BR>correct<BR> they were=20
eliminated without any identified replacement. J-STD-001<BR>has=20
a<BR> recent DoD adoption notice =
that=20
I can send if you like, or you can<BR>get=20
it<BR> from IPC=20
directly.<BR><BR> =20
Mel<BR><BR> -----Original=20
Message-----<BR> From: TechNet =
[<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]]On">mailto:[log in to unmask]]On</A> Behalf Of =
Hinners=20
Hans M<BR>Civ<BR> =20
WRALC/LUGE<BR> Sent: Wednesday,=
=20
December 19, 2001 1:08 PM<BR> =
To:=20
[log in to unmask]<BR> Subject: Re: =
[TN]=20
Mil Spec Equivalent for=20
IPC-A-610<BR><BR><BR> Hello =
Fellow=20
Techies,<BR><BR> Thanks for =
the=20
comments!<BR><BR> The original=20=
drawings are from the late 80's and we're=20
conformally<BR>coating<BR> =
the=20
assembly instead of using an insulating foam so I get=20
to<BR>change/improve<BR> =20
things.<BR> MIL-STD-2000 came =
out=20
after the drawings (which reference<BR>MIL-STD-454). =20
And<BR> then there's the =
disconnect=20
when both specs got canceled without=20
an<BR> identified replacement.&nb=
sp;=20
I'd rather identify a=20
non-government<BR>specification<BR> &nbs=
p;=20
supporting DOD's decision to get out of the spec. business. =20
(They<BR>had<BR> better solder =
the=20
thing to J-STD-001 or I've got bigger=20
problems<BR>than<BR> getting a =
good=20
coating.)<BR><BR> Happy=20
Holidays.<BR><BR> =20
Hans<BR><BR> Integrity First =
;=20
- Service Before Self - Excellence in All We=20
Do<BR> =20
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR> &n=
bsp; =20
Hans M. Hinners<BR> Electronics=
=20
Engineer<BR> Warner Robins - =
Air=20
Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)<BR>  =
; 226=20
Cochran Street<BR> Robins AFB =
GA=20
31098-1622<BR><BR> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]
l</A><BR><BR> =20
Com: (478) 926 - 5224<BR> =20
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911<BR> &n=
bsp;=20
DSN Prefix: 468<BR><BR><BR><BR> =
=20
-----Original Message-----<BR> =
From:=20
Mel Parrish [<A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]]">mailto:[log in to unmask]
OM]</A><BR> =20
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 5:10=20
PM<BR> To:=20
[log in to unmask]<BR> Subject: Re: =
[TN]=20
Mil Spec Equivalent for=20
IPC-A-610<BR><BR><BR> =20
Hans<BR> The only standard from =
the=20
Mil specs that expressly=20
addressed<BR>acceptability<BR> =
like=20
610 was the DOD-STD-2000, Volume 3. The other standards=20
like<BR> MIL-STD-2000 and 2000, =
Rev A=20
included acceptability as would=20
be<BR>equivalent<BR> to=20
J-STD-001.<BR><BR> Mel=20
Parrish<BR> Soldering Technology=
=20
International<BR> Madison,=20
AL<BR> 256 705=20
5530<BR> 256 705 5538=20
Fax<BR> =20
[log in to unmask]<BR><BR><BR> &=
nbsp;=20
-----Original Message-----<BR> =
From:=20
TechNet [<A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]]On">mailto:[log in to unmask]]On</A=
>=20
Behalf Of Hinners Hans M<BR>Civ<BR> &nbs=
p;=20
WRALC/LUGE<BR> Sent: Wednesday,=
=20
December 19, 2001 11:42 AM<BR> =
To:=20
[log in to unmask]<BR> Subject: =
[TN] Mil=20
Spec Equivalent for=20
IPC-A-610<BR><BR><BR> Hi=20
All,<BR><BR> Can anyone remember =
the=20
equivalent Mil spec for IPC-A-610?<BR> &=
nbsp;=20
Is it MIL-STD-454?<BR><BR> =20
Hans<BR><BR> Integrity First =
;=20
- Service Before Self - Excellence in All We=20
Do<BR> =20
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR> &n=
bsp; =20
Hans M. Hinners<BR> Electronics=
=20
Engineer<BR> Warner Robins - =
Air=20
Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)<BR>  =
; 226=20
Cochran Street<BR> Robins AFB =
GA=20
31098-1622<BR><BR> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]
l</A><BR><BR> =20
Com: (478) 926 - 5224<BR> =20
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911<BR> &n=
bsp;=20
DSN Prefix:=20
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 15:55:12 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Mcmaster, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Warp age in FR-4
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bill
Can you give the specifics of the construction? The board may be all FR4
but not all FR4 is created equal. Are the design and the materials of
construction symmetric about the board centerline? Any deviation from that
could contribute to warpage. It's not just the relative position of the
plane layers and signal layers. Depending on the cores and prepregs used to
build the board, the resin % can vary from the low 40s for 7628 glass to the
high 70s for 106. I've seen boards that are all the same type of material
but have a preponderance of lower resin cores and prepregs on one side and
higher resin materials on the other with warpage. Not 2.4% like you're
seeing, but more than was originally anticipated. The industry usually only
publishes a single value for X/Y CTE for materials like FR4 but there's
actually a significant difference between FR4 that is 40% resin and 70%.
If the stackup is balanced, then you are probably looking at fab-related
issues. Cool down as mentioned. Or possible cross grain. I think another
post alluded to this. The process of making prepreg imparts a stress in the
fabric as it is pulled through the treater tower. This is usually called
machine or grain direction. The induced stress means that the material has
different CTE in the machine and transverse directions. Even a balanced
board can have warpage if the grain direction is mixed in an unsymmetric
way.
There are two schools of thought on this. One says that you just avoid
mixing grain direction. The other says that you intentionally mix it,
though you have to maintain symmetry. The latter is a lot more difficult to
do correctly and much more prone to mistakes. There are also a lot of
constructions that don't lend themselves to maintaining the symmetry.
If it is cross grain, I'd also consider it the responsibility of the
fabricator.
> ----------
> From: Safavi-Bayat Shahed[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: TechNet E-Mail Forum.
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 5:44 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Warp age in FR-4
>
> Bill
> Are you sure that the material is FR4 on top and bottom layer?
> The reason I ask is I once used Rogers on component side and FR4 on
> circuit
> side and the board had
> warp age and the reason was mixing the two material.
> Other than that I think your fab shop kind of missed it this time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kasprzak, Bill (sys) USX [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 8:26 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Warpage in FR-4
>
>
> Holiday Greetings to one and all,
>
> I have an 8 layer FR-4 board that was supposedly built IAW IPC-6011, Class
> 3
> and IPC-6012, Class 3. The board itself appears to be like any other
> board,
> .062" thick, no unusual ground plane layers etc. After wave soldering this
> assembly severely warped. Looking at the bare boards, they are also
> warped,
> but can be shaped into a straight position by bending a little. (I
> shouldn't
> have to do this.)
>
> Not being up to date on board fabrication techniques, was there anything
> in
> the fab process that could lead to a warped board? We're talking a 3/16"
> warp over an 8" length.. Or was there something at my assembly end that is
> introducing the warp. The boards were run in a titanium picture frame
> pallet.
>
> Your thoughts and ideas are greatly appreciated.
>
> Bill Kasprzak
> Moog Inc., Electronic Assembly Engineering
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> -----
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>
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=========================================================================
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:04:48 -0800
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
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Subject: signoff
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 17:06:40 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Lush, Dorothy (FPTI)" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: SET Technet NOMAIL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C189BB.BF901DA0"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Please set nomail for Dec 21, 01-Jan7, 02
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charset="iso-8859-1"
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2650.12">
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</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Please set nomail for Dec 21, 01-Jan7, 02</FONT>
</P>
</BODY>
</HTML>
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 19:09:45 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Richard Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Rejected posting to [log in to unmask]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Boy, you just can't get anything past ole Jefry, can you? Or, can you???????
I'm sorry but I can not let this pass considering the initial drive to do
this anyway!!
Please be sure to read the original message as quoted below
Richard
At 08:09 PM 12/20/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Your message is being returned to you unprocessed because it
>looks like a
>LISTSERV command, rather than material intended for distribution to the
>members
>of the TechNet list. Please note that LISTSERV commands must ALWAYS be
>sent to
>the LISTSERV address; if it was indeed a command you were attempting to
>issue,
>please send it again to [log in to unmask] for execution. Otherwise,
>please
>accept our apologies and try to rewrite the message with a slightly
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>wording - for instance, change the first word of the message,
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>quotation marks, insert a line of dashes at the beginning of your message,
>etc.
>Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:18:32 -0800
>To: [log in to unmask]
>From: Richard Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Please set Greetings
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>Set Greetings to all @ Happy for Christmas
>
>and
>
>Set Greetings to all @ Prosperous for New Year
>
>Set Outta Here to Richard Hamilton for awhile.
>
>EOT
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 07:02:12 -0000
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Atkinson, Neil" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Favorite SPC tools
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I would be careful with this one!
SPC works well and gives advantages when people get in touch with the data
and the process. Software can sometimes become a means to "do SPC" and not
to control the process because it can make people feel detached from the
data and by doing too much of the work can result in a lack of understanding
of variation, and if all a company gets out of an SPC programme is that
everyone understands variation, it has been worth the effort!
Neil
-----Original Message-----
From: Guy Ramsey [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 20 December 2001 21:45
Subject: Favorite SPC tools
Is anyone out there using a plant wide SPC software tool?
_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 02:12:35 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Rod Smith <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Rod Smith/Endicott/IBM is out of the office.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I will be out of the office starting December 21, 2001 and will not return
until January 2, 2002.
I will respond to your message when I return.
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 14:19:53 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "d. terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Voiding on BGA with uVias
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Generated by NET-TEL Mailguard SMTP version 4.0.0.22)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Peter,
We recently had some problems with voiding in the solderjoints of ceramic =
BGA's on pads with via's. Per design the via's are overplated with copper =
and leadtin, but the actual bare boards had some problems with dimples and =
sometimes bad overplating.
So for one batch we made notes of the pads that were not according to the =
design specificaytion, and afterwards we tried to correlate this with the =
voids. Correlation was 100%. No void if the pad was flat and had good =
plating, and voids (up to 50% in diameter !!) whenever the pad didn't look =
right.
Daan Terstegge
SMT Centre
Thales Communications
Unclassified mail
Personal Website: http://www.smtinfo.net
>>> Peter Lee <[log in to unmask]> 12/19 8:20 am >>>
Hello,
We have encountered major BGA voiding issue. The void is sometimes up to
70% of the joint. Under X-ray inspection we found a blind 0.006" uVia,
0.01" deep under each void. Other BGA solder joint on board w/o uVias do
not have any void problems. Board is gold over Nickel finish and 2mm
thick.
Things we tried:
Reflow profile - WS/ no-clean paste, longer soak
Washing/ baking the bare PCB
Reworked by cleaning the uVias/pads and filled with solder but still
seeing void
Has anyone seen this before? Micro-sectioning clearly showed the void
originated from the uVia. We are trying to convince the board house that
it's not our process.
Rgds,
Peter
_________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:12:01 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Lou Hart <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Compunetix, Inc.
Subject: Re: Favorite SPC tools
Neil's words remind me of what I read that Deming said one time when asked
if he would summarize his message to management: Understand variability.
Quesenberry in "SPC Methods for Quality Improvement" says the real purpose
of SPC is "to establish when a process can reasonably be considered stable
or in control".
An unschooled but savvy mechanical engineer told me one time when we were
discussing SPC that "the best thing you can do for those machines is to
leave them alone".
Sorry I don't know of any plant-wide tools to use. As I've suggested to
TechNet in the past, look into Quesenberry's Q-statistics for SPC if you
are starting from the beginning.
Lou Hart
-----Original Message-----
From: Atkinson, Neil [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 2:02 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Favorite SPC tools
I would be careful with this one!
SPC works well and gives advantages when people get in touch with the data
and the process. Software can sometimes become a means to "do SPC" and not
to control the process because it can make people feel detached from the
data and by doing too much of the work can result in a lack of
understanding
of variation, and if all a company gets out of an SPC programme is that
everyone understands variation, it has been worth the effort!
Neil
-----Original Message-----
From: Guy Ramsey [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 20 December 2001 21:45
Subject: Favorite SPC tools
Is anyone out there using a plant wide SPC software tool?
_____________________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by Star Internet
delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. For further
information visit http://www.star.net.uk/stats.asp or alternatively call
Star Internet for details on the Virus Scanning Service.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 08:32:38 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Favorite SPC tools
X-To: Louis Hart <[log in to unmask]>
Lou,
This always is a good discussion. The best point in the discussion is about
control. Juran said when a process is in a state of control, product quality
is consistent though it may be consistently good or bad. From this there is
a place to start process improvement.
Earl Moon
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:43:55 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Jeff Ferry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Off Topic - Holiday Best Wishes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Posted this little poem a few years back. Thought I'd dust it off, add a
bit, and send it along. It's a toast to Jack Crawford, IPC Director,
Assembly Standards and Technology. Jack is a Santa-like character if there
ever was one. If you don't know Jack he's a big backer of this free forum
hosted by our friends at IPC.
I'll be at APEX next month in San Diego. If you can make I hope we cross
paths.
Best wishes and hope you all have a great 2002.
Your friend,
Jeff Ferry
Circuit Technology Center
[log in to unmask]
====================================================
'Twas the night before Christmas and out in the shop,
the lines were shut down, I had just stowed the mop.
The tweezers and cutters were stored with great care,
in hopes that St. Crawford soon would be there.
The boards were all shielded in boxes and bags,
numbers were marked on their little white tags.
My ESD coat and wrist strap put away,
I was ready to leave on this cold winter day.
When back in the shop I heard such a clatter,
I sprang to my feet to see what was the matter.
Out onto the floor I flew with a flair,
tore open the ovens and shut off the air.
The benches, and boxes, and carts on the floor,
got me to thinking how to give our next tour.
Peering over a bench and a stack of old specs,
I saw a big fellow with 8 super Techs.
Arms full of old documents, lap top on his back,
I knew in a moment it must be St. Jack.
As sharp as can be these TechNetters came,
and he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name;
"Now, INGEMAR! now, RAMSEY! now, KUHLOW and HILLMAN!
On, MOON MAN! on, SELDAK! on, GREGORY and CHRISTIAN!
To the top of the rack! to the top of the wall!
Now dash away! dash away! dash away all!"
He was dressed in a lab coat, from neck to his waste.
It was covered with super glue and old solder paste.
Had a pocket protector full of sharp things with points,
he was mumbling and mumbling about solder joints.
His eyes -- how they twinkled! his dimples how merry!
His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry!
His smile was sure wide, it was broad as a bow,
and the hair on his head, turning white just like snow.
The stump of a pencil was perched on his ear,
a tool of some kind to help him to hear.
He had a great face and a little round belly,
that shook, when he laughed like a bowl full of jelly.
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf,
and I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself.
A wink of his eye and a twist of his head,
soon gave me to know I had nothing to dread.
He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
he tested the benches; then turned with a jerk,
and laying his finger aside of his nose,
and giving a nod, through the air duct he rose.
He sprang to his sleigh, a quick pick and place,
and away they all flew like a Derby horse race.
But I heard him exclaim, as he drove out of sight,
"HAPPY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GOODNIGHT!"
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:34:11 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Panel Layout Standardization
X-To: [log in to unmask]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello Technetters and Designers,
First of all MERRY CHRISTMAS!
I am working on Panel Layout Standardization project.
We make memory (SIMM,DIMM,DDR,RIMM,SODIMM,CF, etc)
However, to better pursue the upper manager to see the
potential benefit from doing this, I have to make a
presentation in which all the ideas, objects, goals,
have to be presented clearly.
I have seen many, however, there are always more
upside and downside of the Panel Layout Standadization
that I have not seen. I NEED YOUR HELP HERE.
1. Universally, I know the boardhouse use 18x24
rawstock size. However, besides it, what else do they
use (Taiwan, Korean, Chinese, Ireland, and USA).
2. However the X-Out affects the cost of making PCB?
(We want panel size are around of 12' - L x 7' - W in
which the maximum of PCB can possibly fit).
3. Screen Printing quality of those big panel vs.
smaller panel.
4. More!
Please advise me.
Thanks!
Again Merry Christmas!!!
Stacy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:04:14 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Panel Layout Standardization
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
How about the panel size working with pick and place machines, wave solder,
auto-insertion, Auto test fixtures, solder paste application, storage racks,
anti-static board carriers and racks, inspection equipment, etc. .... all
these things have limitations on the max size they can handle...
Also, larger panels may need local fiducials for compensation due to
variations in tolerance accumulation across larger areas... Will the panels
be rigid enough or require support through the manufacturing process?
How do you plan do DE-Panelize the boards? How many "X-out" or reject boards
will you allow in a panel?
Doe it make sense to have "SUB" panels? Super-panels that can break down to
sub-panels for certain processes?
enough?
Bill Brooks
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.
DATRON WORLD COMMUNICATIONS, INC
3030 Enterprise Court
Vista, CA 92083
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
mailto:[log in to unmask]
IPC Designers Council, San Diego Chapter
http://www.ipc.org/SanDiego/
http://home.fda.net/bbrooks/pca/pca.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: My Nguyen [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 9:34 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Panel Layout Standardization
Hello Technetters and Designers,
First of all MERRY CHRISTMAS!
I am working on Panel Layout Standardization project.
We make memory (SIMM,DIMM,DDR,RIMM,SODIMM,CF, etc)
However, to better pursue the upper manager to see the
potential benefit from doing this, I have to make a
presentation in which all the ideas, objects, goals,
have to be presented clearly.
I have seen many, however, there are always more
upside and downside of the Panel Layout Standadization
that I have not seen. I NEED YOUR HELP HERE.
1. Universally, I know the boardhouse use 18x24
rawstock size. However, besides it, what else do they
use (Taiwan, Korean, Chinese, Ireland, and USA).
2. However the X-Out affects the cost of making PCB?
(We want panel size are around of 12' - L x 7' - W in
which the maximum of PCB can possibly fit).
3. Screen Printing quality of those big panel vs.
smaller panel.
4. More!
Please advise me.
Thanks!
Again Merry Christmas!!!
Stacy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:48:42 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Environmental issues
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Brian,
Go for it.
Bev
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Ellis [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: December 20, 2001 8:32 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Environmental issues
There have recently been some threads here on environmental issues, with
the usual messages from some that they were not in context with the
purpose of the list.
If I receive sufficient support (say, 20 or more messages), offline, to
my private e-mail address ( [log in to unmask] ), I'll open a Yahoo
newsgroup devoted entirely to environmental issues within industry. This
will be cost-free, open to all, without reasonable restriction of
subject, which will allow those who are interested to continue these
discussions to their heart's content and without upsetting the
sensitivities of those who consider such threads as inappropriate here.
Please note that this is not in competition with the IPC but as a
complement.
Best regards,
Brian
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 14:07:05 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Panel Layout Standardization
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Hi Stacy,
First of all MERRY CHRISTMAS!
I am working on Panel Layout Standardization project.
We make memory (SIMM,DIMM,DDR,RIMM,SODIMM,CF, etc)
However, to better pursue the upper manager to see the
potential benefit from doing this, I have to make a
presentation in which all the ideas, objects, goals,
have to be presented clearly.
I have seen many, however, there are always more
upside and downside of the Panel Layout Standadization
that I have not seen. I NEED YOUR HELP HERE.
1. Universally, I know the boardhouse use 18x24
rawstock size. However, besides it, what else do they
use (Taiwan, Korean, Chinese, Ireland, and USA).
I wouldn't say there is a universal size for FR-4 - it depends on the board
size you are making.
My laminate guys start with a sheet 38" x 50" and cut that down depending on
what we order.
My last gig had 10 panel sizes on the books but only 5 were being used with
any frequency.
Don't misunderstand me, 18 x 24 is very popular - cost effective, easier
handling (less scrap from handling damage), & good for panelization.
2. However the X-Out affects the cost of making PCB?
(We want panel size are around of 12' - L x 7' - W in
which the maximum of PCB can possibly fit).
One impact to the fab house expense is whether the customer accept X-outs on
a PCB array. Some customers required us to scrap an entire panel if one
board was bad. <We're talking "Put your hand in the box" kinda pain.>
3. Screen Printing quality of those big panel vs.
smaller panel.
Now you are talking about registration issues. I can't speak to the silk
screen side of it - Steve ya still out there! I hear folks can run into
trouble with panel sag - 20 x 28 panel 62 mils thick. For inner layer
registration the shop has to have it's artwork compensation factors dialed
in.
4. More!
Work with your board shop on the panelization including coupon locations -
there may be some best practices they use.
And for the holidays all I want are a few of gigs of RDRAM . . .
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
Please advise me.
Thanks!
Again Merry Christmas!!!
Stacy
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 11:22:45 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Panel Layout Standardization
In-Reply-To: <72F8793F1F00D411BE2D00805FA7C0EBCD7BC0@DATRON1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Bill,
Thanks a lot for your input. The panel size for
RIMM,DIMM, DDR,SODIMM, will be layout in such way that
those factors are put in serious consideration.
We use Dek (Screen Printing, CP6/7, QP2/3, Heller,
Amistar (labeler) Sayaka, Excelon, and Nortek for our
production line. Within 11.5 x 7 inches, and less
than 11 units in X direction, 3 in Y direction, we
believe that the machines will handle those panels
just fine.
For Fiducials: Thanks again! For fine pitch component
placement (on QP) we use local, however, for 0603 and
above (Chip/cap), we use global fiducial (I just added
it into my note).
Will the panels be rigid enough or require support
through the manufacturing process?
It seems to be ok with DIMM/DDR/RIMM (1 row) and
SODIMM (2 row). Here IS THE QUESTION for YOU: For
Critical areas, we give the boardhouse a tolerance of
4 mils for those applications (from Edge to Edge).
What we do is to complete the entire the
de-panelization in house, thus, the panel will contain
NO V-Groove scoring or rat-bites. However, if the
panel comes in in 4 mils off, then we have to round it
perfectly. For memory product, where is the critical
area? (SODIMM,DIMM,SIMM,DDR,RIMM) Are they the only
portion below the knots or the entire area where the
knots locate at?
Also, do you know the common vendors rawstock material
size for both domestic and oversea?
Thanks,
Stacy
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 08:34:05 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Hillman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: white powder on leads
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Andre! I would suggest you get a Scanning Electron Microscopy element
scan conducted on the white residue. The white residue you describe could
be tin or lead oxides, lead crystals due to a component plating problem,
calcium crystals due to poor washing, etc. The SEM analysis will help
eliminate the inorganic (e.g. metallic) possibilities leaving the possible
flux related (organic) source causes. Good luck and Happy Holidays.
Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
Andre Leclair <[log in to unmask]>@ipc.org> on 12/19/2001 07:57:26 AM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: [TN] white powder on leads
Hi All
Here is another residue issue
We have an assembly which has a white residue remaining after wash.
The board is completely SMT (WS609) using a DI-Wash process, the board is
spotless except for one location. The location is a QFP (from CRONTEL),
the white powder is on the leads of the IC only. There is not a spot on
the PCB.
The Powder dry brushes extremly easily. On a few of the leads ( usually
about half way up the lead, nver near the joint)after brushing there is
evidence of flux residue( yellow sort of like Crystal Flux residue) in
spots.
We have put a few boards through the Omega with readings lower then
2.3microgram/sq.inch.
Could this be something the part manufacture has left/put on the leads? I
have noticed that the plating is thin on the leads (exposed copper on the
faces) the leads also look like sheared stock ( exposed copper on the
sides)
Thanks
Andre
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 14:16:52 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Merry Christmas to all
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From the Great State of Texas, city of Stafford (Houston) I wish you all a Very
Merry Christmas and a safe New Year.
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 15:29:24 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Hiteshew, Michael" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Soldermask: LPI vs Dry Film
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Techies,
I have a circuit board with 0.024" diameter (finished size) vias.
I'd like to tent them in the final design. My question: Am I better off
specifying dry-film soldermask as opposed to LPI? Is there a cost tradeoff
with dry film? Is it hard to work with or hard to get? It seems to have
fallen out of favor lately, so that's why I'm asking. Thanks in advance.
~Mike
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:03:29 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Panel Layout Standardization
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Please tell me I MIS-READ your comment...12' X 7' (12 FEET by 7 FEET)? I
can't imagine that... You must have meant 12" X 7" (12 inches by 7 inches)
no?
- Bill Brooks
-----Original Message-----
From: Hinners Hans M Civ WRALC/LUGE [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 11:07 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Panel Layout Standardization
Hi Stacy,
First of all MERRY CHRISTMAS!
I am working on Panel Layout Standardization project.
We make memory (SIMM,DIMM,DDR,RIMM,SODIMM,CF, etc)
However, to better pursue the upper manager to see the
potential benefit from doing this, I have to make a
presentation in which all the ideas, objects, goals,
have to be presented clearly.
I have seen many, however, there are always more
upside and downside of the Panel Layout Standadization
that I have not seen. I NEED YOUR HELP HERE.
1. Universally, I know the boardhouse use 18x24
rawstock size. However, besides it, what else do they
use (Taiwan, Korean, Chinese, Ireland, and USA).
I wouldn't say there is a universal size for FR-4 - it depends on the board
size you are making.
My laminate guys start with a sheet 38" x 50" and cut that down depending on
what we order.
My last gig had 10 panel sizes on the books but only 5 were being used with
any frequency.
Don't misunderstand me, 18 x 24 is very popular - cost effective, easier
handling (less scrap from handling damage), & good for panelization.
2. However the X-Out affects the cost of making PCB?
(We want panel size are around of 12' - L x 7' - W in
which the maximum of PCB can possibly fit).
One impact to the fab house expense is whether the customer accept X-outs on
a PCB array. Some customers required us to scrap an entire panel if one
board was bad. <We're talking "Put your hand in the box" kinda pain.>
3. Screen Printing quality of those big panel vs.
smaller panel.
Now you are talking about registration issues. I can't speak to the silk
screen side of it - Steve ya still out there! I hear folks can run into
trouble with panel sag - 20 x 28 panel 62 mils thick. For inner layer
registration the shop has to have it's artwork compensation factors dialed
in.
4. More!
Work with your board shop on the panelization including coupon locations -
there may be some best practices they use.
And for the holidays all I want are a few of gigs of RDRAM . . .
Hans
Integrity First - Service Before Self - Excellence in All We Do
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hans M. Hinners
Electronics Engineer
Warner Robins - Air Logistics Center (WR-ALC/LUGE)
226 Cochran Street
Robins AFB GA 31098-1622
mailto:[log in to unmask]
Com: (478) 926 - 5224
Fax: (478) 926 - 4911
DSN Prefix: 468
Please advise me.
Thanks!
Again Merry Christmas!!!
Stacy
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 16:42:58 -0500
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Lou Hart <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: Compunetix, Inc.
Subject: Re: Soldermask: LPI vs Dry Film
Mike, just a few minutes ago as I was looking over my new copy of IPC-7095,
"Design and Assembly Process Implementation for BGAs", I noticed on page 30
there is a statement "Most photoimageable wet film masks will not even tent
0.35 mm via holes because it is difficult to cure polymer in via holes".
We have been having trouble at ICT from untented, unplugged vias. The
board designer is helping us out now. We have one board with 0.028" vias
that is worst. By the way, I did a quick calculation that suggested if the
vias were 0.020", the pull-down force at ICT would be increased by a factor
of 6 over the 0.028" version.
Here's a question for TechNetters in general, in the same vein, that may
help Mike and me. Page 31 of 7095 refers to Tenting and Capping. What is
capping? 7095 says "Via capping is the preferred method since tenting
reliability is dependent on the finished hole size". Never heard of it
before, and although I'm not an old timer by TechNet standards, I've been
around a few days. Thanks for assitance. Lou Hart
-----Original Message-----
From: Hiteshew, Michael [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 3:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Soldermask: LPI vs Dry Film
Techies,
I have a circuit board with 0.024" diameter (finished size) vias.
I'd like to tent them in the final design. My question: Am I better off
specifying dry-film soldermask as opposed to LPI? Is there a cost tradeoff
with dry film? Is it hard to work with or hard to get? It seems to have
fallen out of favor lately, so that's why I'm asking. Thanks in advance.
~Mike
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 13:56:20 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Panel Layout Standardization
In-Reply-To: <72F8793F1F00D411BE2D00805FA7C0EBCD7BC5@DATRON1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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LOL! Bill, you are right
12" x 7" (I forgot to press press down the shift key).
By the way, Paul excellently explain the PCB vs Panel
(rawstock) size so far.
I am looking at Jedec spec. for the critical areas.
If you could, please shoot us an advise.
Thanks,
Stacy.
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 16:58:13 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Soldermask: LPI vs Dry Film
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_126.94d06a1.29550a75_boundary"
--part1_126.94d06a1.29550a75_boundary
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Lou!
Capping I believe, is going back as a secondary step, and using the via image
only, then "capping" the vias with something like a SR1000 mask. Works fine
for sealing off the vias, but sometimes causes problems with stenciling
solderpaste if done on the topside of the PCB. If you do "capping" do it on
the bottomside...
-Steve Gregory-
> Mike, just a few minutes ago as I was looking over my new copy of IPC-7095,
> "Design and Assembly Process Implementation for BGAs", I noticed on page 30
> there is a statement "Most photoimageable wet film masks will not even tent
> 0.35 mm via holes because it is difficult to cure polymer in via holes".
> We have been having trouble at ICT from untented, unplugged vias. The
> board designer is helping us out now. We have one board with 0.028" vias
> that is worst. By the way, I did a quick calculation that suggested if the
> vias were 0.020", the pull-down force at ICT would be increased by a factor
> of 6 over the 0.028" version.
>
> Here's a question for TechNetters in general, in the same vein, that may
> help Mike and me. Page 31 of 7095 refers to Tenting and Capping. What is
> capping? 7095 says "Via capping is the preferred method since tenting
> reliability is dependent on the finished hole size". Never heard of it
> before, and although I'm not an old timer by TechNet standards, I've been
> around a few days. Thanks for assitance. Lou Hart
>
--part1_126.94d06a1.29550a75_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Lou!<BR>
<BR>
Capping I believe, is going back as a secondary step, and using the via image only, then "capping" the vias with something like a SR1000 mask. Works fine for sealing off the vias, but sometimes causes problems with stenciling solderpaste if done on the topside of the PCB. If you do "capping" do it on the bottomside...<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Mike, just a few minutes ago as I was looking over my new copy of IPC-7095,<BR>
"Design and Assembly Process Implementation for BGAs", I noticed on page 30<BR>
there is a statement "Most photoimageable wet film masks will not even tent<BR>
0.35 mm via holes because it is difficult to cure polymer in via holes".<BR>
We have been having trouble at ICT from untented, unplugged vias. The<BR>
board designer is helping us out now. We have one board with 0.028" vias<BR>
that is worst. By the way, I did a quick calculation that suggested if the<BR>
vias were 0.020", the pull-down force at ICT would be increased by a factor<BR>
of 6 over the 0.028" version.<BR>
<BR>
Here's a question for TechNetters in general, in the same vein, that may<BR>
help Mike and me. Page 31 of 7095 refers to Tenting and Capping. What is<BR>
capping? 7095 says "Via capping is the preferred method since tenting<BR>
reliability is dependent on the finished hole size". Never heard of it<BR>
before, and although I'm not an old timer by TechNet standards, I've been<BR>
around a few days. Thanks for assitance. Lou Hart<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_126.94d06a1.29550a75_boundary--
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 17:20:10 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Panel Layout Standardization
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Hi Stacy!
Having read the replies that you've recieved so far, they are giving you good
information. The only thing I can add is some past experience from my
employment at a memory company...Smart Modular Technologies, they are no
longer, was bought out by Solectron...but I digress...
As far as X-outs, they aren't free. The FAB house won't charge you for them,
and your bare costs may be lower, but there are costs that you will see on
your production floor from X-outs.
Normally what I see from the fab houses is a big "X" drawn on the individual
boards. That X is something that we can't program our machines to see since
it's not consistently in the same place. We normally had to sort the panels
one-by-one and put a label that the machine can see on each of the x-outs, at
a consistent location, so the machine don't try and populate bad boards.
The other alternative is to sort the fabs according to which boards are bad,
and then have separate programs that populate only the good boards...either
way, you still have to handle each board.
The other thing to think about is the wasted solder paste that you print on
these bad fabs. It may seem insignificant, but when I worked at Smart
Modular, we would sometime do almost a million modules a month during our
busy times. I did a calulation of the solder paste that was wasted on bad
boards over a years time, and it was close to $50,000 a year!
It's not only that, you need to figure in the time that's wasted in
depaneling. You say you have a router inline that depanelizes everything,
does it do only the good boards, or does it do the whole panel? Is it wasting
time routing out bad boards?
X-out aren't a big deal in low volumes, but if you do high volumes, the costs
that you may save in the bare board costs may be insignificant compared to
what you spend on the production floor...
-Steve Gregory-
> Hello Technetters and Designers,
>
> First of all MERRY CHRISTMAS!
>
> I am working on Panel Layout Standardization project.
> We make memory (SIMM,DIMM,DDR,RIMM,SODIMM,CF, etc)
> However, to better pursue the upper manager to see the
> potential benefit from doing this, I have to make a
> presentation in which all the ideas, objects, goals,
> have to be presented clearly.
>
> I have seen many, however, there are always more
> upside and downside of the Panel Layout Standadization
> that I have not seen. I NEED YOUR HELP HERE.
>
> 1. Universally, I know the boardhouse use 18x24
> rawstock size. However, besides it, what else do they
> use (Taiwan, Korean, Chinese, Ireland, and USA).
> 2. However the X-Out affects the cost of making PCB?
> (We want panel size are around of 12' - L x 7' - W in
> which the maximum of PCB can possibly fit).
> 3. Screen Printing quality of those big panel vs.
> smaller panel.
> 4. More!
>
> Please advise me.
> Thanks!
> Again Merry Christmas!!!
>
> Stacy
>
--part1_142.6c1c829.29550f9a_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Stacy!<BR>
<BR>
Having read the replies that you've recieved so far, they are giving you good information. The only thing I can add is some past experience from my employment at a memory company...Smart Modular Technologies, they are no longer, was bought out by Solectron...but I digress...<BR>
<BR>
As far as X-outs, they aren't free. The FAB house won't charge you for them, and your bare costs may be lower, but there are costs that you will see on your production floor from X-outs.<BR>
<BR>
Normally what I see from the fab houses is a big "X" drawn on the individual boards. That X is something that we can't program our machines to see since it's not consistently in the same place. We normally had to sort the panels one-by-one and put a label that the machine can see on each of the x-outs, at a consistent location, so the machine don't try and populate bad boards.<BR>
<BR>
The other alternative is to sort the fabs according to which boards are bad, and then have separate programs that populate only the good boards...either way, you still have to handle each board.<BR>
<BR>
The other thing to think about is the wasted solder paste that you print on these bad fabs. It may seem insignificant, but when I worked at Smart Modular, we would sometime do almost a million modules a month during our busy times. I did a calulation of the solder paste that was wasted on bad boards over a years time, and it was close to $50,000 a year!<BR>
<BR>
It's not only that, you need to figure in the time that's wasted in depaneling. You say you have a router inline that depanelizes everything, does it do only the good boards, or does it do the whole panel? Is it wasting time routing out bad boards?<BR>
<BR>
X-out aren't a big deal in low volumes, but if you do high volumes, the costs that you may save in the bare board costs may be insignificant compared to what you spend on the production floor...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hello Technetters and Designers,<BR>
<BR>
First of all MERRY CHRISTMAS!<BR>
<BR>
I am working on Panel Layout Standardization project.<BR>
We make memory (SIMM,DIMM,DDR,RIMM,SODIMM,CF, etc)<BR>
However, to better pursue the upper manager to see the<BR>
potential benefit from doing this, I have to make a<BR>
presentation in which all the ideas, objects, goals,<BR>
have to be presented clearly.<BR>
<BR>
I have seen many, however, there are always more<BR>
upside and downside of the Panel Layout Standadization<BR>
that I have not seen. I NEED YOUR HELP HERE.<BR>
<BR>
1. Universally, I know the boardhouse use 18x24<BR>
rawstock size. However, besides it, what else do they<BR>
use (Taiwan, Korean, Chinese, Ireland, and USA).<BR>
2. However the X-Out affects the cost of making PCB?<BR>
(We want panel size are around of 12' - L x 7' - W in<BR>
which the maximum of PCB can possibly fit).<BR>
3. Screen Printing quality of those big panel vs.<BR>
smaller panel.<BR>
4. More!<BR>
<BR>
Please advise me.<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
Again Merry Christmas!!!<BR>
<BR>
Stacy<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_142.6c1c829.29550f9a_boundary--
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 17:38:56 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: OT-Christmas Wishes...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Hi everybody!
First off, I truely wish everybody a warm and merry Christmas, and a most
prosperous and fullfilling New Year.
I pray that this next year won't be as eventfull as the past one has. I also
pray for and thank those that are serving our country now...they deserve all
of our prayers and thanks...
Mike Fenner sent me a email that I want to share. This is a most wonderful
image, I'm using it as my background on my computer....thank you Mike!
-Steve Gregory-
>>I offer this, if there is a God in heaven this is what He sees.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg
A perspective for all the troubles and squabbles and a peaceful scene to end
the Year and wish you all the Seasons Greetings and a Happy New Year
Mike<<
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 14:47:36 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Panel Layout Standardization - PCB height increment
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hello Technetters,
Thank you so much! You guys are awesome!
Yes Steve, thanks for your input, you don't mind if I
quote it in my report "50,000/year just for waste
solder paste on X-out modules for 1 mil module/month"
(our volume is about not less).
The problem of X-Out, from my concern, is how to
provide good support in Solder Paste Printing process
as we do second side product. Width different
component height (D-Pac Stack, TSOP, SOJ, high/low
profile capacitors, different PCB thickness), it is
not easy to find flexible/cost effitive tool for the
support toolings. Even with one product but the X-Out
position shift from block to block.
THE SECOND QUESTION IS PCB HEIGHT. WE WANT THE LAYOUT
ENGINEER TO FOLLOW THE 0.125 INCREMENT. (I.e for DIMM,
the dimension will be 5.25x1.00/1.125/1.250/1.375...)
By doing we can standardize the panel size, the tools,
fixture, etc. However, I do not know is there any JDEC
spec or any other spec on PCB height or its increment.
Please advise,
Stacy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 21:37:10 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Seth Goodman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Panel Layout Standardization
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C18A67.A57271D0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi Steve,
I didn't know that Smart Modular Technologies was no more. I just spec'd in
some of their DIMM's about 6 months ago. With regard to the X-outs being
randomly placed and not machine readable, I did some work a while back for a
contract manufacturer who had just put in place a system to "fix" this
problem. Their solution, which seemed pretty clever to me, was to place a
diamond-shaped fiducial on each board in the panel, and then, you guessed
it, have the PCB fabricator black out just the little diamond. So rather
than a big randomly placed "X", which is great for us near-sighted humans,
you got a small paint or ink blob on the fiducial. I don't know where on
the process line they read the diamond-shaped fiducial to tell all the
subsequent machines about the bad board locations. But it did seem like a
really good idea (like most ideas that I don't have to implement). Your
point about solder paste is well taken. That one seems pretty hard to avoid
without spending more than you could save.
Regards,
Seth Goodman
Goodman Associates, LLC
tel 608.833.9933
fax 608.833.9966
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stephen R. Gregory
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 4:20 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Panel Layout Standardization
Hi Stacy!
Having read the replies that you've recieved so far, they are giving you
good information. The only thing I can add is some past experience from my
employment at a memory company...Smart Modular Technologies, they are no
longer, was bought out by Solectron...but I digress...
As far as X-outs, they aren't free. The FAB house won't charge you for
them, and your bare costs may be lower, but there are costs that you will
see on your production floor from X-outs.
Normally what I see from the fab houses is a big "X" drawn on the
individual boards. That X is something that we can't program our machines to
see since it's not consistently in the same place. We normally had to sort
the panels one-by-one and put a label that the machine can see on each of
the x-outs, at a consistent location, so the machine don't try and populate
bad boards.
The other alternative is to sort the fabs according to which boards are
bad, and then have separate programs that populate only the good
boards...either way, you still have to handle each board.
The other thing to think about is the wasted solder paste that you print
on these bad fabs. It may seem insignificant, but when I worked at Smart
Modular, we would sometime do almost a million modules a month during our
busy times. I did a calulation of the solder paste that was wasted on bad
boards over a years time, and it was close to $50,000 a year!
It's not only that, you need to figure in the time that's wasted in
depaneling. You say you have a router inline that depanelizes everything,
does it do only the good boards, or does it do the whole panel? Is it
wasting time routing out bad boards?
X-out aren't a big deal in low volumes, but if you do high volumes, the
costs that you may save in the bare board costs may be insignificant
compared to what you spend on the production floor...
-Steve Gregory-
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C18A67.A57271D0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D930482203-22122001>Hi=20
Steve,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D930482203-22122001></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D930482203-22122001>I =
didn't know that=20
Smart Modular Technologies was no more. I just spec'd in some of =
their=20
DIMM's about 6 months ago. With regard to the X-outs being =
randomly placed=20
and not machine readable, I did some work a while back for a contract=20
manufacturer who had just put in place a system to "fix" this =
problem. =20
Their solution, which seemed pretty clever to me, was to place a =
diamond-shaped=20
fiducial on each board in the panel, and then, you guessed it, have the =
PCB=20
fabricator black out just the little diamond. So rather than a big =
randomly placed "X", which is great for us near-sighted humans, you got =
a small=20
paint or ink blob on the fiducial. I don't know where on the =
process line=20
they read the diamond-shaped fiducial to tell all the subsequent =
machines about=20
the bad board locations. But it did seem like a really good idea =
(like=20
most ideas that I don't have to implement). Your point about =
solder paste=20
is well taken. That one seems pretty hard to avoid without =
spending more=20
than you could save.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DArial>Regards,<BR><BR>Seth =
Goodman<BR>Goodman=20
Associates, LLC<BR>tel 608.833.9933<BR>fax =
608.833.9966<BR></FONT></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> TechNet=20
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Stephen R. =
Gregory<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
Friday, December 21, 2001 4:20 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
[log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Panel Layout=20
Standardization<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2>Hi=20
Stacy!<BR><BR>Having read the replies that you've recieved so far, =
they are=20
giving you good information. The only thing I can add is some past =
experience=20
from my employment at a memory company...Smart Modular Technologies, =
they are=20
no longer, was bought out by Solectron...but I digress...<BR><BR>As =
far as=20
X-outs, they aren't free. The FAB house won't charge you for them, and =
your=20
bare costs may be lower, but there are costs that you will see on your =
production floor from X-outs.<BR><BR>Normally what I see from the fab =
houses=20
is a big "X" drawn on the individual boards. That X is something that =
we can't=20
program our machines to see since it's not consistently in the same =
place. We=20
normally had to sort the panels one-by-one and put a label that the =
machine=20
can see on each of the x-outs, at a consistent location, so the =
machine don't=20
try and populate bad boards.<BR><BR>The other alternative is to sort =
the fabs=20
according to which boards are bad, and then have separate programs =
that=20
populate only the good boards...either way, you still have to handle =
each=20
board.<BR><BR>The other thing to think about is the wasted solder =
paste that=20
you print on these bad fabs. It may seem insignificant, but when I =
worked at=20
Smart Modular, we would sometime do almost a million modules a month =
during=20
our busy times. I did a calulation of the solder paste that was wasted =
on bad=20
boards over a years time, and it was close to $50,000 a =
year!<BR><BR>It's not=20
only that, you need to figure in the time that's wasted in depaneling. =
You say=20
you have a router inline that depanelizes everything, does it do only =
the good=20
boards, or does it do the whole panel? Is it wasting time routing out =
bad=20
boards?<BR><BR>X-out aren't a big deal in low volumes, but if you do =
high=20
volumes, the costs that you may save in the bare board costs may be=20
insignificant compared to what you spend on the production=20
floor...<BR><BR><BR>-Steve =
Gregory-<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 16:00:50 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Mass lead trimming systems...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Swipe one of Doug's Mountain Dews? Sounds like you and Doug both need to
visit this site:
http://members.aol.com/seanborg/mtdew/mtdew1.htm
hehehe...
-Steve Gregory-
> Enough said, I am off to swipe one of Doug's Mountain Dew's. Happy Holidays
> to everyone.
>
> Dave Hillman
> Rockwell Collins
> [log in to unmask]
>
--part1_4f.15e3d76f.29564e82_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Swipe one of Doug's Mountain Dews? Sounds like you and Doug both need to visit this site:<BR>
<BR>
http://members.aol.com/seanborg/mtdew/mtdew1.htm<BR>
<BR>
hehehe...<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Enough said, I am off to swipe one of Doug's Mountain Dew's. Happy Holidays<BR>
to everyone.<BR>
<BR>
Dave Hillman<BR>
Rockwell Collins<BR>
[log in to unmask]<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 03:19:56 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Michael Flett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Warpage in FR-4
Bill,
plenty of people have answered your question on warpage and I agree with
the responces. The cooling rate is critical when the board passes through
the glass transition phase. This cooling rate could be 30 degrees / minute
if you could ensure that every point on each board were cooling at that
exact rate, but that would be near impossible. The truth is, cooling slowly
at the 7 degrees/min, as previously mentioned, will give you a better
chance of minimising temperature variation across the board. I suggest you
thermocouple a dummy panel, in several positions, and assess the
temparature variation. Back to Tg, if part of the board is above Tg and
part below, you will get the bi-metal strip effect (warpage) which will be
set in the board.
Hope this helps
Best regards to all and merry christmas
Michael
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:26:21 -0500, Kasprzak, Bill (sys) USX
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Holiday Greetings to one and all,
>
>I have an 8 layer FR-4 board that was supposedly built IAW IPC-6011, Class
3
>and IPC-6012, Class 3. The board itself appears to be like any other board,
>.062" thick, no unusual ground plane layers etc. After wave soldering this
>assembly severely warped. Looking at the bare boards, they are also warped,
>but can be shaped into a straight position by bending a little. (I
shouldn't
>have to do this.)
>
>Not being up to date on board fabrication techniques, was there anything in
>the fab process that could lead to a warped board? We're talking a 3/16"
>warp over an 8" length.. Or was there something at my assembly end that is
>introducing the warp. The boards were run in a titanium picture frame
>pallet.
>
>Your thoughts and ideas are greatly appreciated.
>
>Bill Kasprzak
>Moog Inc., Electronic Assembly Engineering
>
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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 11:48:30 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Steve DiBartolomeo <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Checking Laminate Order is Patented!
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Technetters...
I have been reading the suggestions about how one
verifies that laminate layers are stacked correctly.
Did you know that a company, Samsung, has actually
"patented" the idea of using offset metal pads near
the edges of the substrate to determine that the
layup is correct.
No way! Yes way! - patent number 6,091,026 (I saw the
patent reviewed in Chip Scale Design Magazine...November
December 2001, page 57)
So all of you using the technique - send your money
to Samsung! And I though that patents had to be non-obvious
to those skilled in the industry ...
========================================================
Steve DiBartolomeo [log in to unmask]
PC Tools Microelectronics Tools
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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:05:44 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Checking Laminate Order is Patented!
MIME-Version: 1.0
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HA! I imagine that this patent is as enforcable as the one that "patented"
using epoxy for bottomside SMT components...
Were these companies to try and enforce such patents, the losses that they
would see from such enforcement, should be of much concern to the upper
management.
If they even attempted such enforment, I for one, would do everything in my
power to not engage in any sort of business with that company...it would be
possible to do that...they have a great stake in other markets...there's many
other companies that produce memory as one example...I don't think they would
be so short sighted...
-Steve Gregory-
> Technetters...
>
> I have been reading the suggestions about how one
> verifies that laminate layers are stacked correctly.
>
> Did you know that a company, Samsung, has actually
> "patented" the idea of using offset metal pads near
> the edges of the substrate to determine that the
> layup is correct.
>
> No way! Yes way! - patent number 6,091,026 (I saw the
> patent reviewed in Chip Scale Design Magazine...November
> December 2001, page 57)
>
> So all of you using the technique - send your money
> to Samsung! And I though that patents had to be non-obvious
> to those skilled in the industry ...
>
> ========================================================
>
> Steve DiBartolomeo [log in to unmask]
> PC Tools Microelectronics Tools
>
--part1_14b.63554f9.2957a128_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>HA! I imagine that this patent is as enforcable as the one that "patented" using epoxy for bottomside SMT components...<BR>
<BR>
Were these companies to try and enforce such patents, the losses that they would see from such enforcement, should be of much concern to the upper management.<BR>
<BR>
If they even attempted such enforment, I for one, would do everything in my power to not engage in any sort of business with that company...it would be possible to do that...they have a great stake in other markets...there's many other companies that produce memory as one example...I don't think they would be so short sighted...<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Technetters...<BR>
<BR>
I have been reading the suggestions about how one<BR>
verifies that laminate layers are stacked correctly.<BR>
<BR>
Did you know that a company, Samsung, has actually<BR>
"patented" the idea of using offset metal pads near<BR>
the edges of the substrate to determine that the<BR>
layup is correct.<BR>
<BR>
No way! Yes way! - patent number 6,091,026 (I saw the<BR>
patent reviewed in Chip Scale Design Magazine...November<BR>
December 2001, page 57)<BR>
<BR>
So all of you using the technique - send your money<BR>
to Samsung! And I though that patents had to be non-obvious<BR>
to those skilled in the industry ...<BR>
<BR>
========================================================<BR>
<BR>
Steve DiBartolomeo [log in to unmask]<BR>
PC Tools Microelectronics Tools<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_14b.63554f9.2957a128_boundary--
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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 15:32:19 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Warpage in FR-4
X-To: Michael Flett <[log in to unmask]>
Again, the lamination process often is more overlooked than most others. A
basic part of any process management tool must be to audit the process. As
you say, running the lamination process calibration simply is to, on a
regular basis, place the thermocouple "book" into the press openings, using
say 5 places, to determine the profile. It's not much different than
profiling a wave or reflow soldering process. Much else to do but often
overlooked.
MoonMan
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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 15:33:52 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Checking Laminate Order is Patented!
X-To: [log in to unmask]
It's more ridiculous than a patent for capacitance core.
MoonMan
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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:47:06 EST
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From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Patented
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A whole lot about patent law, and its enforcement, is pretty dumb. And it is
not helped by some REALLY serious screwups by the patent office in the US, (I
am aware of some of them) and probably in other places.
However, for those of us who want to be "technically correct", and I know we
all do, especially Steve..., you have the right to use a patented idea if you
"invented" it before the patent was filed. So, if you were using the layer
count idea before the Samsung patent was filed, you are legally in the
clear....now, you can all sleep better, I am sure...
Rudy Sedlak
RD Chemical Company
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 08:09:52 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: "<Peter George Duncan>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Soldermask: LPI vs Dry Film
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The only answer I can help with is my brief experience with Dry Film. It's
becoming rarer as LPI has become the apparent industry standard, but also
it isn't as suitable as LPI is you have a board with a lot of closely
packed traces - it tends not to adhere too well. LPI tents OK too, so my
vote for less hassle is LPI.
Merry Christmas to all fellow T-Nagers.
Peter Duncan
"Hiteshew,
Michael" To: [log in to unmask]
<michael.hiteshew cc: (bcc: DUNCAN Peter/Asst Prin Engr/ST
@LMCO.COM> Aero/ST Group)
Sent by: TechNet Subject: [TN] Soldermask: LPI vs Dry Film
<[log in to unmask]>
12/22/01 04:29 AM
Please respond to
"TechNet E-Mail
Forum."
Techies,
I have a circuit board with 0.024" diameter (finished size) vias.
I'd like to tent them in the final design. My question: Am I better off
specifying dry-film soldermask as opposed to LPI? Is there a cost tradeoff
with dry film? Is it hard to work with or hard to get? It seems to have
fallen out of favor lately, so that's why I'm asking. Thanks in advance.
~Mike
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 08:20:24 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: DINOSAUR
Just thought some of you might like a little unseasonable yuck. Our good
friend from the farthest reaches of your planet provided some Eastern
insight. I replied with none.
Hello Moonman,
The interesting thing is I'm the AME/PCBA process engineer in several
PDTs(Product Development Team) right now. That's my job responsibilities. We
produce telecomm equipment in China. We have our own DFM checklists in the
company. Different from your big list, we use different checklists for the
different review points in a design process. We discuss a lot over the
checklists and keep updating them. It's interesting to see somebody at the
other end of the world doing similar things. But the company just started
the DFM/CE in the recent two years, so we are just pupils(over 30 years in
the business! what do they call such a man? Grand old man? or dinosaurs? : ).
Wish you a Merry Christmas on earth.
Jiang Ping
Jiang,
You're right about revising the check lists as needed. Just don't do it for
its sake alone. Keeping current with technology is essential, but trying to
get ahead is what it's all about. I mean, you know that what with such
"traditional" values you folks all have. No dinosaurs there, right?
You used the magical acronyms DFM/CE. Outstanding! Where did you come up
with the CE part of the equation. Oh yes, tradition and culture. You folks
must be incapable of doing it without concurrence. On the one hand I applaud
you all. On the other, you must become less traditional/dinosauristic and
get more entrepreneurial - though you shouldn't take it too far. The West
and East have been trying, though not too well, to get together forever. Why
doesn't it work. Maybe money will solve the problems but, maybe, with fewer
kidney harvests in the field in your country and fewer .coms in ours.
Grand old man? Not exactly! Dino! No, and still revered as someone
progressive having sought and taught CPI seemingly forever and people still
don't listen well enough. Ain't got no labels on me but for self
proclaimed - as MoonMan looking down upon it all and seeing it repeated time
after time though still not getting it right without DFM/CE.
Wish you a Merry Christmas - wherever you are.
MoonMan
Jiang,
Hope you don't mind my posting this. Even so, If you're really doing it
right where you are, some shame on us over here.
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Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 00:23:01 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Marife R. Gonzales" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Marife R Gonzales/CUB/SC/PHILIPS is out of the office.
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I will be out of the office starting 12-24-2001 and will not return until 01-03-2002.
I will respond to your message when I return.
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 17:54:11 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: OT - Christmas and New Years wishes...
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Just a few thoughts to think about in the new year. A doctor/priest who has
been with many, many people who passed-on said that there were always two
questions that came to light before the end...
"Was I loved?"
"Did I love enough?"
Don't need to elaborate about this...just something to think about.
Warmest wishes to each and everyone of you...
-Steve Gregory-
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 21:34:03 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: OT - Christmas and New Years wishes...
X-To: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Steve and all, certainly words to be seriously considered in troubled times.
I wasn't going to say anything, but I've gotten so many good wishes off
line, as I know you all have, I thought my thoughts may be interesting.
Though not purely technical, if at all, I have been involved in so many
conversations with folks I've never met from all over the world starting
that way and ending up as follows while answering a simple seasonal greeting:
Thank you Linda. It isn't an easy time, to say the least, but I've been
conversing with some folks in other lands (via the internet mostly), as well
as here, about who hopes for what in the future. In the recent past, the
talk has been of technology. Most recently (time dependent on the season I
suspect), more of it focuses on our type beings (some flatter ourselves as
human) and interrelationships, and how they may positively change based on
what we must do to survive let alone prosper - or simply make a living.
Talking this way certainly puts things a bit more in perspective but
emphasizes how differently we, on this shrinking sphere called earth, view
each other and how we continue to change - often for the better or?
Certainly, our time has become more perplexing without a clear vision of
where we all are headed. We now may begin viewing divergence in a whole new
light.
Much of the discussions revolve around ethics and moral values in the work
place. Moreover, these talks involve our leadership therein, or lack of it,
and how it influences our daily lives while trying to make a living. Even
God, or another entity to some, is viewed differently from one end of the
spectrum and planet to another - from kind and caring to a terrifying deity
promising death to infidels. Even the most terrible of crimes are just to
some and denounced by others - all based on a human perspective often
without regard to consequences on earth but a fruitful promise hereafter.
Much verbiage involves those past and how some have made billions of dollars
on and off the working person's back even in companies where a few led and
others followed eagerly down a path to certain riches. Enron is a most
recent example of those at the top promising great gains for all involved
while only they benefited, but those following now decry their losses as
though totally innocent. Mankind loves a .com type world and everyone wants
a big piece of it but not when it fails. Point the finger and become as
litigious as possible without regard to consequences. Worse, point the gun
and shoot "innocents" with no earthly regard at all.
In other times recent, though forgotten by most, the "junk bond" types
("kings") now are teaching ethics in Stanford MBA programs, and so forth,
come to mind and are clear examples of greed taken to the limits and the
profits made thereof kept them relatively safe from any serious punishment.
Write a check and go free worked for them. Truly amazing how we forgive some
with so much, and punish so many without. Third strike for stealing a loaf
of bread - now there's a concept failed though Milken and Ivan walk as free
and still very rich men to be followed in some classroom full of hopeful
billionaires. Almost makes recent "warlike" events pail by comparison.
That's a lot of what talk is about between myself and others in other places
with different, though not more well founded, viewpoints concerning what is
just.
One thing, out of all this, is sure. We have a nearly clean slate on which
we may all begin to do better, or not. The choice is ours. Though the
economy will get worse before better, we as humans can only get better.
It's not easy to find perspective for our situation and, what should be a
joyous time of year, is not exactly that as older promises held. However, as
some find justice in our inhumanities to one another, more of us may find a
better time ahead. That is my wish and that is what I, in my very limited
way, am working and hoping for so tomorrow is a better time and place.
Certainly, I am now going to reach out, beyond my technological confines,
and try to help make positive changes elsewhere. Because tomorrow is now,
you and I have work to do and I know you will do yours as well as I can only
hope do mine.
Enjoy,
Earl Moon and the Boyds
If a new year has any significance at all, the "clean slate" thing appeals
most to me. As my technical life slows to a crawl, I want to do something
else maybe just a bunch better.
MoonMan
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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 09:48:11 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: Dave Roesler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Panel Utilization Software
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Is anyone aware of panel utilization software besides KwickFit?
Thanks,
Dave Roesler
TRI-C Design, Inc.
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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 19:34:43 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Panel Utilization Software
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Hi Dave,
Yes, there is Propanel, at http://www.proms.com/ and you can download it =
at http://www.proms.com/downloadpropanel.asp
Don't know if it's any good, but I suppose you could give it a try,
Daan Terstegge
http://www.smtinfo.net
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Dave Roesler=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 4:48 PM
Subject: [TN] Panel Utilization Software
Is anyone aware of panel utilization software besides KwickFit?
Thanks,
Dave Roesler
TRI-C Design, Inc.
=
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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Dave,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes, there is Propanel, at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.proms.com/">http://www.proms.com/</A> and you =
can download=20
it at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.proms.com/downloadpropanel.asp">http://www.proms.com/d=
ownloadpropanel.asp</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Don't know if it's any good, but I =
suppose you=20
could give it a try,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Daan Terstegge</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net">http://www.smtinfo.net</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask]
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">Dave Roesler</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask]
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 26, =
2001 4:48=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [TN] Panel Utilization =
Software</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Is anyone aware of panel utilization software besides=20
KwickFit?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>Dave Roesler<BR>TRI-C Design,=20
=
Inc.<BR><BR>-------------------------------------------------------------=
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IPC web=20
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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 11:12:10 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: My Nguyen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Panel Utilization Software
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Good morning Technetters,
I have downloaded the Kwickfit. It seems to be a
great software with affodable price. However, if I
have a 2x7 panel size, and I want a 0.4 inches for the
middle rail, the software would not have that
features. Instead, it takes 0.1 spacing for all the
space between PCBs (in sub-panel) in both XY
direction.
You may suggest that I can increase the left/right
rail size to fix the problem. However, if I increase
the left/right rail size, then the 1 up would be
wrong.
I dont' know if the full version fix that problem or
not. Or if any other software may have that features?
Thanks,
Stacy
__________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 22:49:44 +0100
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "D.Terstegge" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Panel Utilization Software
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Hi Stacy,
Why don't you ask the KwickFit people ? But now you asked us, the =
answer is yes it's fixed when you register the software.
Daan
http://www.smtinfo.net
----- Original Message -----=20
From: My Nguyen=20
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] Panel Utilization Software
Good morning Technetters,
I have downloaded the Kwickfit. It seems to be a
great software with affodable price. However, if I
have a 2x7 panel size, and I want a 0.4 inches for the
middle rail, the software would not have that
features. Instead, it takes 0.1 spacing for all the
space between PCBs (in sub-panel) in both XY
direction.
You may suggest that I can increase the left/right
rail size to fix the problem. However, if I increase
the left/right rail size, then the 1 up would be
wrong.
I dont' know if the full version fix that problem or
not. Or if any other software may have that features?
Thanks,
Stacy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
=
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in
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Stacy,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Why don't you ask the KwickFit people=20
? But now you asked us, the answer is yes it's fixed when you =
register the software.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Daan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.smtinfo.net">http://www.smtinfo.net</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A [log in to unmask] =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">My=20
Nguyen</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A [log in to unmask]
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 26, =
2001 8:12=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [TN] Panel =
Utilization=20
Software</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>Good morning Technetters,<BR><BR>I have =
downloaded the=20
Kwickfit. It seems to be a<BR>great software with affodable =
price. =20
However, if I<BR>have a 2x7 panel size, and I want a 0.4 inches for=20
the<BR>middle rail, the software would not have =
that<BR>features. =20
Instead, it takes 0.1 spacing for all the<BR>space between PCBs (in =
sub-panel)=20
in both XY<BR>direction.<BR><BR>You may suggest that I can increase =
the=20
left/right<BR>rail size to fix the problem. However, if I=20
increase<BR>the left/right rail size, then the 1 up would=20
be<BR>wrong.<BR><BR>I dont' know if the full version fix that problem=20
or<BR>not. Or if any other software may have that=20
=
features?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Stacy<BR><BR>____________________________=
______________________<BR>Do=20
You Yahoo!?<BR>Send your FREE holiday greetings online!<BR><A=20
=
href=3D"http://greetings.yahoo.com">http://greetings.yahoo.com</A><BR><BR=
>------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d<BR>To=20
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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 14:09:37 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrick Lam <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: MELF Land Pattern
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Technetters,
We are going to use MELF (MMB0207) in our design for the first time. I need some
advice on creating the land pattern.
Thanks,
Patrick
This e-mail may contain SEL confidential information. The opinions expressed
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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 18:24:42 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: MELF Land Pattern
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Hi Patrick!
Use the same land patterns that apply for chip components that are the same
width and length. Don't use those patterns that have the little "U-shaped"
cut-out in the center of the patterns...they will cause the the MELF to skew
during reflow unless placed PRECISELY!
I don't know where those patterns were created, or why they were, but they
don't accomplish what they tried to do...
They still exist out there by the component manufacturers...just two square
pads that match the component width and length are fine...they don't need any
special pads.
-Steve Gregory-
> Hi Technetters,
>
> We are going to use MELF (MMB0207) in our design for the first time. I need
> some
> advice on creating the land pattern.
>
> Thanks,
> Patrick
--part1_a4.1e8e2667.295bb63a_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Patrick!<BR>
<BR>
Use the same land patterns that apply for chip components that are the same width and length. Don't use those patterns that have the little "U-shaped" cut-out in the center of the patterns...they will cause the the MELF to skew during reflow unless placed PRECISELY!<BR>
<BR>
I don't know where those patterns were created, or why they were, but they don't accomplish what they tried to do...<BR>
<BR>
They still exist out there by the component manufacturers...just two square pads that match the component width and length are fine...they don't need any special pads.<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hi Technetters,<BR>
<BR>
We are going to use MELF (MMB0207) in our design for the first time. I need some<BR>
advice on creating the land pattern.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
Patrick</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 22:20:13 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Adam Seychell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: direct metallization
How long should it take for the holes to fully plate with copper in
direct metallization system, such as in the Blackhole process from Macdermid
? Obviously, the holes should plate a small fraction of the total plating
time so as to avoid non uniform hole thickness.
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 01:34:35 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: direct metallization
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Maybe the hardest part of answering you is to ask "what you mean FULLY plate".
In other words, how fully is fully plated?
And under what ASF....what aspect ratio....
Rudy Sedlak
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 12:14:19 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
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From: Yehuda Weisz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Direct Metallization
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Hi Adam,
If I understand, you mean to ask: "How long should it take to create the first ppms of a full conductive copper layer inside the PTH?" (something like that - how long untill the whole hole wall gets the "good" conductivity of copper).
I cannot relate specifically to Blackhole since I work with SHADOW, but I think the answer is really not that straight forward, as Rudy implied.
In general I can tell you that the creation of this "first conductive layer" does take relativly considerable time compared to electroless copper. This time depends on many factors, starting with the conductivity of the direct metallization layer, the diameter of the via, the Aspect ratio (I did mention the latter two separately in purpose), the actual current density, the agitaion and more.
If you want to get some approximation of this time dependency of plating, I would advise you to create an artwork of a mesh that has diffrent square sizes. You can image and etch this mesh on a regular double sided board, direct plate it and then copper plate. Examine the board every few minutes and see how the gaps in the mesh "close". The rate of closing should give you some idea regarding the time.
Of couse, you must keep in mind that this time dependency that exists on the outerlayer of a board is different from what you get inside a via, especially a small and deep via. For vias you may create a board with differnt hole sizes (many coupons - each containing 4-5 hole sizes) partially routed out, direct plate and electroplate it. Every few minutes lift the board out of the plating bath and break off one coupon (your partial routing should be such that would allow easy breaking off of these coupons, but not too easy that would break off during agitation). Microsection the different coupons and get a better knowledge of the time dependency of copper. It is more difficult and time consuming but a little more accurate (the actual current density will depend on the specific board layout and it will be always different from your test board, by definition).
I'll take this opportunity to wish You and all Technetters a very happy and an even happier and less eventfull New-Year.
Yehuda Weisz
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<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">Hi Adam,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">If I understand, you mean to ask: "How long
should it take to create the first ppms of a full conductive copper layer inside
the PTH?" (something like that - how long untill the whole hole wall gets the
"good" conductivity of copper).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">I cannot relate specifically to Blackhole
since I work with SHADOW, but I think the answer is really not that straight
forward, as Rudy implied.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">In general I can tell you that the creation of
this "first conductive layer" <U>does</U> take relativly considerable time
compared to electroless copper. This time depends on many factors, starting with
the conductivity of the direct metallization layer, the diameter of the via, the
Aspect ratio (I did mention the latter two separately in purpose), the actual
current density, the agitaion and more.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">If you want to get some approximation of this
time dependency of plating, I would advise you to create an artwork of a mesh
that has diffrent square sizes. You can image and etch this mesh on a regular
double sided board, direct plate it and then copper plate. Examine the board
every few minutes and see how the gaps in the mesh "close". The rate of closing
should give you some idea regarding the time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">Of couse, you must keep in mind that this time
dependency that exists on the outerlayer of a board is different from what you
get inside a via, especially a small and deep via. For vias you may create a
board with differnt hole sizes (many coupons - each containing 4-5 hole
sizes) partially routed out, direct plate and electroplate it. Every few
minutes lift the board out of the plating bath and break off one coupon (your
partial routing should be such that would allow easy breaking off of these
coupons, but not too easy that would break off during agitation). Microsection
the different coupons and get a better knowledge of the time dependency of
copper. It is more difficult and time consuming but a little more accurate (the
actual current density will depend on the specific board layout and it will be
always different from your test board, by definition).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">I'll take this opportunity to wish You and all
Technetters a very happy and an even happier and less eventfull
New-Year.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman">Yehuda Weisz</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_Cj0mjRgVRoST5qMyp1q2KQ)--
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 16:17:41 +0530
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Ultrasonic Cleaning
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Technetters,
I am presently evaluating post reflow PCB cleaning machines, both aqueous
and ultrasonic. I have a concern regarding ultrasonic cleaning. Read
somewhere that the ultrasonic frequencies can have an effect on the wire
bonds inside the packaging. Does anyone have any idea of this?
Thanks in anticipation.
Regards
Vinit Verma
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 12:57:25 +0200
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Brian Ellis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning
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Vinit
The risks of ultrasonics are manifold, but not necessarily too terrible.
There are several component types that can suffer: MIL style
semiconductors, but not plastic-cased ones, quartz crystals, multilayer
capacitors etc. If you have semiconductor packages which do not have the
bonding wires held in a solid mass of plastic, then you may be at risk,
but this can be minimised (but not eliminated) by choosing the frequency
range and intensity. It is essentially a compromise. There is MUCH
general misunderstanding about ultrasonics.
I personally favour an adequate spray regime over any immersion type
(the bath and shower argument!). If you wish to know more, contact me
offline.
Brian
Vinit Verma wrote:
>
> Hi Technetters,
>
> I am presently evaluating post reflow PCB cleaning machines, both aqueous
> and ultrasonic. I have a concern regarding ultrasonic cleaning. Read
> somewhere that the ultrasonic frequencies can have an effect on the wire
> bonds inside the packaging. Does anyone have any idea of this?
>
> Thanks in anticipation.
>
> Regards
> Vinit Verma
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
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> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 11:07:45 -0000
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Mike Fenner <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning
In-Reply-To: <C176BFD6AC4AD5119CE80002A5519B029AF16F@BGLNT005>
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Hi, Vinit.
This is a topic which comes up on a regular basis, and has been thoroughly
scrutinised in this forum. The consensus is that whilst there may once have
been a real concern, with modern equipment the chances of a problem
occurring are slight at most. I suggest you visit the TechNet archives at
www.IPC.org to find your answer and info to support this statement. You will
find reams.
Happy New Year
Mike Fenner
Applications Engineer, European Operations
Indium Corporation
T: + 44 1908 580 400
M: + 44 7810 526 317
F: + 44 1908 580 411
E: [log in to unmask]
W: www.indium.com
Leadfree: www.Pb-Free.com
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Vinit Verma
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 10:48 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Ultrasonic Cleaning
Hi Technetters,
I am presently evaluating post reflow PCB cleaning machines, both aqueous
and ultrasonic. I have a concern regarding ultrasonic cleaning. Read
somewhere that the ultrasonic frequencies can have an effect on the wire
bonds inside the packaging. Does anyone have any idea of this?
Thanks in anticipation.
Regards
Vinit Verma
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 11:42:55 -0600
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
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From: pratap singh <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: RAMP Inc.
Subject: Seasons Greetings
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To all technetters:
Seasons Greetings and Happy New Year
http://www.rampinc.com/sgretngs.htm
_________________________
pratap singh
tel/fax: 512-255-6820
email: [log in to unmask]
WEB: www.rampinc.com
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To all technetters:
<p>Seasons Greetings and Happy New Year
<p><u><A HREF="http://www.rampinc.com/sgretngs.htm">http://www.rampinc.com/sgretngs.htm</A></u>
<br>
<br>
<p>_________________________
<br>pratap singh
<br>tel/fax: 512-255-6820
<br>email: [log in to unmask]
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 09:03:28 +1100
Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: David Muscat <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Ultrasonic Cleaning
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Hi Vinit,
Perhaps check out smartsonics web site they have conclusive studies and
material on this type of cleaning that is very effective.
try www.smartsonic.com
Regards
David Muscat
Arqtek Design
Vinit Verma wrote:
>Hi Technetters,
>
>I am presently evaluating post reflow PCB cleaning machines, both aqueous
>and ultrasonic. I have a concern regarding ultrasonic cleaning. Read
>somewhere that the ultrasonic frequencies can have an effect on the wire
>bonds inside the packaging. Does anyone have any idea of this?
>
>Thanks in anticipation.
>
>Regards
>Vinit Verma
>
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>
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 20:17:32 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Adam Seychell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: direct metallization
Holes which have been metallized with conductive carbon cause
electrodeposited copper to "grow" across the hole wall surface until the
entire hole has been plated. The reason for the growth effect is simple.
Carbon is relatively high in resistance compared to copper. Thus a voltage
drop will develop a small distance across the carbon surface from the copper
cathode which it is contacting. Current density decays rapidly as distance
increases from the contacting point. The effect is copper starts to grow
longitudinally from the hole ends until meeting half. Once copper has
completely covered the entire hole wall the plating thickness begins to clim
vertically.
The copper cladding foil on the surface will begin to plating immediately
where as the hole wall always lags behind. I am interested in knowing is how
long of a time (or how many mils of electroplated copper) does it take
before the hole wall reaches the point of completely covered with copper
(hole initiation). I understand the answer depends on many variables, such
as plating C.D. and bath additives.
What are the typically hole wall initiation times in a commercial process,
such as BLACKHOLE ?
Adam Seychell
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 22:53:09 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Dennis Fritz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: direct metallization
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In a message dated 12/27/01 9:25:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
<< What are the typically hole wall initiation times in a commercial process,
such as BLACKHOLE ? >>
Adam -
You have the right concepts for the "knit rate" of acid copper plating over
direct metallization. Basically, there are two major factors.
1) The amount and activity of the carbon deposit on the hole wall
2) The condition of the acid copper brightner system to "bury" the carbon
deposit and slow down the propagation of the acid copper coverage of the
carbon deposit.
The carbon deposition factors depend on many things - the conditioning of the
hole wall to make "water hating" epoxy want to wet with aqueous carbon black
emulsion, the carbon particle size (smaller adheres better), and the
percentage of the deposited carbon kept on the hole wall through steps of
drying, microetching the carbon off the copper surface, dry film developing,
and finally pre-electroplate cleaning and microetching.
All acid copper baths have film formers to act as leveling agents to overcome
rough deposition and achieve throw into the holes of the board. These film
forming agents slow down the propagation of copper plating, so some acid
coppers are more favorable to direct metallizaton than others. In addition,
impurities like wetting agents in developer antifoams or the wetter in
pre-electroplate cleaners can also retard propagaiton of copper plating over
carbon. So even if a copper bath has a very compatible brightner, the
condition of the working bath may retard knitting of copper in carbon direct
metallization holes. I have never seen a good knit rate from a green acid
copper bath ( and I can just guess the poor performance of the same copper
plated barrels in solder shock testing).
Adam, if you wish, I can send you (off line) a reprint of a MacDermid paper
on copper plating propagation as measured by either the copper grid in hull
cell described by Yehuda Weisz, or a MacDermid propagation test vehicle sort
of like this:
__ __ __ __
__! !__! !__! !__! !__
where the horizontal lines are offset dogbones of copper circuitry on the
opposite sides of a double side board, and the vertical lines are the plated
through holes in susscession propagated and plated copper over carbon direct
metallizaton.
Let's just say that usually, we see many holes plated in 30 minutes, so that
the knit time of a single good BlackHole deposit is a minute or so.
Let me know (off line) if you want a copy of the controls paper.
Dennis Fritz
MacDermid, Inc
Waterbury CT..
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 15:55:49 +0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Lum Wee Mei <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: IPC standards adopted by DoD
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I would appreaciate any kind soul who can provide me with a quick resource as to
where I can get the list of IPC standards that DoD adopted. It would be good if
the date is also included. I have not received any reply from IPC in my earlier
request. I guess they are too busy with the coming conferences.
Regards - Wee Mei
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 14:20:40 +0530
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Vinit Verma <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: IPC standards adopted by DoD
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Wee Mei,
The information you require can be obtained from IPC's website
http://www.ipc.org/html/fsstandards.htm and go to IPC Status of
Standardization
OR
From the home page go to Standards Activities, and from there go to IPC
status of Standardization.
Hope this helps you.
Regards
Vinit Verma
-----Original Message-----
From: Lum Wee Mei [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 1:26 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] IPC standards adopted by DoD
I would appreaciate any kind soul who can provide me with a quick resource
as to
where I can get the list of IPC standards that DoD adopted. It would be good
if
the date is also included. I have not received any reply from IPC in my
earlier
request. I guess they are too busy with the coming conferences.
Regards - Wee Mei
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 08:53:48 -0800
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Patrick Lam <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: MELF Land Pattern
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Thanks Steve.
Patrick
"Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]> on 12/26/2001 03:24:42 PM
Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc: (bcc: Patrick Lam/SEL)
Subject: Re: [TN] MELF Land Pattern
Hi Patrick!
Use the same land patterns that apply for chip components that are the same
width and length. Don't use those patterns that have the little "U-shaped"
cut-out in the center of the patterns...they will cause the the MELF to skew
during reflow unless placed PRECISELY!
I don't know where those patterns were created, or why they were, but they
don't accomplish what they tried to do...
They still exist out there by the component manufacturers...just two square
pads that match the component width and length are fine...they don't need any
special pads.
-Steve Gregory-
> Hi Technetters,
>
> We are going to use MELF (MMB0207) in our design for the first time. I need
> some
> advice on creating the land pattern.
>
> Thanks,
> Patrick
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 16:04:42 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Lefebvre, Scott" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Baking Tape&Reel Components
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Could anyone be so kind to let me know what temperature I can use to bake
components that are in tape and reel. I don't want to damage the carrier
and or cover tape.
Scott
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 18:06:07 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Baking Tape&Reel Components
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Hi Scott!
This can be kinda' tricky...3M makes carrier tape that can withstand high
temperatures but also says that the coverr tape should be of a PSA (Pressure
Sensitive Adhesive) type. I have heard of baking tape and reel components
that have a heat-seal type of cover tape, and having the components sealed in
by the tape so securely that they weren't able to be used in the feeder...the
cover tape would just keep breaking...
Harris Semiconductor has a *.PDF at:
http://rel.semi.harris.com/docs/rel/tb363_2.pdf
That says to bake moisture sensitive tape and reeled components at 40 C. +5
-0 C. at lower than 5% reletive humidity for at least 192 hours...that's
8-days!
I've never baked tape and reel components, so I can't tell you anything first
hand. You may want to consider outsourcing this. There are tape and reel
companies that will take them out of their current tape, bake them, and then
re-tape them and seal them inside of a moisture proof vacuum sealed bag with
dessicant inside.
-Steve Gregory-
> Could anyone be so kind to let me know what temperature I can use to bake
> components that are in tape and reel. I don't want to damage the carrier
> and or cover tape.
>
> Scott
>
--part1_e4.20396d48.295e54df_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Hi Scott!<BR>
<BR>
This can be kinda' tricky...3M makes carrier tape that can withstand high temperatures but also says that the coverr tape should be of a PSA (Pressure Sensitive Adhesive) type. I have heard of baking tape and reel components that have a heat-seal type of cover tape, and having the components sealed in by the tape so securely that they weren't able to be used in the feeder...the cover tape would just keep breaking...<BR>
<BR>
Harris Semiconductor has a *.PDF at:<BR>
<BR>
http://rel.semi.harris.com/docs/rel/tb363_2.pdf<BR>
<BR>
That says to bake moisture sensitive tape and reeled components at 40 C. +5 -0 C. at lower than 5% reletive humidity for at least 192 hours...that's 8-days! <BR>
<BR>
I've never baked tape and reel components, so I can't tell you anything first hand. You may want to consider outsourcing this. There are tape and reel companies that will take them out of their current tape, bake them, and then re-tape them and seal them inside of a moisture proof vacuum sealed bag with dessicant inside.<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Could anyone be so kind to let me know what temperature I can use to bake<BR>
components that are in tape and reel. I don't want to damage the carrier<BR>
and or cover tape.<BR>
<BR>
Scott<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 21:54:35 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Baking Tape&Reel Components
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Scott,
What are these guys? TSOP's? Just wondering...
-Steve Gregory-
> Could anyone be so kind to let me know what temperature I can use to bake
> components that are in tape and reel. I don't want to damage the carrier
> and or cover tape.
>
> Scott
>
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Scott,<BR>
<BR>
What are these guys? TSOP's? Just wondering...<BR>
<BR>
-Steve Gregory-<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Could anyone be so kind to let me know what temperature I can use to bake<BR>
components that are in tape and reel. I don't want to damage the carrier<BR>
and or cover tape.<BR>
<BR>
Scott<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 21:02:10 EST
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: "<Rudy Sedlak>" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Adam The Tin Compatible Etchant Guy
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Adam:
I have lost your e-mail address, and need to talk to you about your etchant.
Can you contact me please.
Thanks
Rudy Sedlak [log in to unmask]
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 07:31:44 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: DFM/CE BEYOND CHECK LISTS
With a new year almost here, I find myself re-energized though not with some
silly ass rabbit in my "titanium." Won't go farther.
Need to ask some of you serious about DFM and doing it better a question
concerning successes, failures, and ISO 9000 2000. 2000's 7.3 requirement
replaced '94's 4.4. That's ok and the language is somewhat the same but for
a great, to me, improvement concerning 7.3.1's final statement as something
like the organization shall manage the interfaces between different groups,
etc....
All this says CONCURRENCE to me. What about you all. Another question is how
many of you fine folks are doing this and how? Moreover, I need input
concerning how you turned the 7.3 requirement into reality. Can't promise
I'll make you famous, but I'll certainly introduce you to the world when my
DFM/CE book is finished.
Also, based on Jiang's response about large check-lists, I'm sure you all
understand the large one is made up of many small ones to be used by
everyone in the DFM/CE team, as required.
Going to detail the check-lists and my new book, containing them, within a
few weeks. Going to produce the things on a CD for better ease of
distribution with thoughts of supplying it as a basic edition initially,
with upgrades, ala software types (what a disgusting thought that). Any
comments or suggestions appreciated. Just want to help bring us all together
to do better work from concept to customer acceptance and all that stuff.
Look forward to the new year and your input,
MoonMan
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 23:10:36 -0600
Reply-To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
From: Earl Moon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: DFM/CE AND ISO 9000/2000
I've received some interesting off line comments concerning my last question
concerning DFM/CE. I need to be more specific, I think, as always.
There are about 20 SHALL statements in section 7.3 (Design and development)
alone. There were about 137 shall statements in all of the previous ISO
version. The following is section 7.3 and my question is how well is
everyone dealing with converting these shall requirements into "we are"
statements and ARE YOU REALLY DOING THEM and, if so, what are your results -
GOOD OR BAD? In other words, hows your DFM/CE program working?
7.3 Design And Development
7.3.1 Design And Development Planning
The organization shall plan and control the design and development of product.
During the design and development planning, the organization shall determine
a) the design and development stages,
b) the review, verification and validation that are appropriate to each
design and development stage, and
c) the responsibilities and authorities for design and development
The organization shall manage the interfaces between different groups
involved in design and development ot ensure effective communication and
clear assignment of responsibility.
Planning output shall be updated, as appropriate, as the design and
development progresses.
7.3.2 Design and Development Inputs
Inputs relating to product requirements shall be determined and records
maintained (see 4.2.4). These inputs shall include
a) functional and performance requirements,
b) applicable statutory and regulatory requirements,
c) where applicable, information derived from previous similary designs, and
d) other requirements essential for design and development.
These inputs shall be reviewed for adequacy. Requirements shall be complete,
unambiguous and not in conflict with each other.
7.3.3 Design and Development Outputs
The outputs of design and development shall be provided in a form that
enables verification development input and shall be approved prior to release.
Design and development outputs shall
a) meet the input requirements for design and development,
b) provide appropriate information for purchasing, production and service
provision,
c) contain or reference product acceptance criteria, and
d) specify the characteristics of the product that are essential for its
safe and proper use.
7.3.4 Design and development review
At suitable stages, systematic reviews of design and development shall be
performed in accordance with planned arrangements (see 7.3.1)
a) to evaluate the ability of the results of design and development to meet
requirements, and
b) to identify any problems and propose necessary actions.
Participants in such reviews shall include representatives of functions
concerned with the design and development stage (s) being reviewed. Records
of the results of the reviews and any necessary actions shall be maintained
(see 4.2.4).
7.3.5 Design and development verification
Verification shall be performed in accordance with planned arrangements (see
7.3.1) to ensure that the design and development outputs have met the design
and development input requirements. Records of the results of the
verification and any necessary actions shall be maintained (see 4.2.4).
7.3.6 Design and development validation
Design and development validation shall be performed in accordance with
planned arrangements (see 7.3.1) to ensure that the resulting product is
capable of meeting the requirements for the specified application or
intended use, where known. Whenever practicable, validation and any
necessary actions shall be maintained (4.2.4).
7.3.7 Control of design and development changes
Design and development changes shall be identified and records maintained.
The changes shall be reviewed, verified and validated, as appropriate, and
approved before implementation. The review of design and development changes
shall include evaluation of the effect of the changes on constituent parts
and product already delivered.
Records of the results of the review of changes and any necessary actions
shall be maintained (see 4.2.4).
What I'm getting at here is if you are registered to the 2000 version of ISO
9000, you must be doing everything ISO requires. If so, you are applying and
practicing good DFM/CE principles, right?
Just want some input about how everyone is approaching this important, to us
all, subject and how well it is working so far.
Thanks a lot,
Earl Moon
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