At 12:00 AM 12/8/01 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 00:00:03 -0600 >Reply-To: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> >Sender: TechNet <[log in to unmask]> >From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: TechNet Digest - 7 Dec 2001 (#2001-765) >To: Recipients of TechNet digests <[log in to unmask]> > >There are 7 messages totalling 421 lines in this issue. > >Topics of the day: > > 1. BGA Visual Inspection (2) > 2. PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position (3) > 3. BGA Rework Equipment (2) > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------ >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET >Technet NOMAIL >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > >E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 >ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------ >Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:49:57 EST >From: "Stephen R. Gregory" <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >boundary="part1_177.5fb76f.29427765_boundary" > >Hi Greg! > >We've had a ERSA scope for about a year now, and I like it. We originally >bought it because we ran into a problem with a BGA that we were placing on >one of our customers boards. It was a super BGA from TI and they obsoleted >it, the replacement from TI had a big metal heatsink in the top of it and >the Glennbrook RTX-113 we have wasn't powerfull enough for us to see >through it, so we bought the ERSA scope. > >It takes a little while to get used to using it, but I like it. X-ray can >do things that the ERSA scope can't, and the ERSA scope can do things that >X-ray can't. I feel that they compliment each other. > >There's been more than a few times that test has given me a board telling >me that the BGA has shorted and needs replacing. I would inspect it under >the ERSA scope and give it back to them telling them that there isn't a >short on the BGA....sure enough, after they did some more trouble-shooting >it turned out to be something else. > >-Steve Gregory- > > >-Steve Gregory- > > >>TechNet Friends, >> > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our >> > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It appears >> > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options to >> > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do add >> > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price. >> > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated such >> > tools. >> > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits? >> > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they >> > as fully developed as the ERSA? >> > >> > Thanks for your help with this one, >> > I >> > >> > Greg Anderson >> > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer >> > GE Fanuc Automation >> > Charlottesville, VA 22911 >> > Phone: 434-978-5181 >> > FAX: 434-978-5898 >> > e-mail: [log in to unmask] > > >Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 14:01:22 -0600 >From: Scott Kauling <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position > >In IPC 2221 section 9.2.2 describes hole location tolerance, it is >expressed as "diameter about true position". IPC T-50 defines "true >position", not diameter about true position. > >My questions are: > > 1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true position? > > 2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify > on your >fab prints > > 3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position > that PWB >fabricators hold? > >Thanks in advance for your input. > >Have a good weekend! > >Scott Kauling >Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:38:19 -0500 >From: "Roger M. Stoops" <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true position? > >Table 9-3 defines the diameter about true position, or tolerance around >true position expressed as a circular value, compared to the square >tolerance area with non-GD&T dimensioning. IPC-2615 does a pretty good job >explaining how GD&T works (for the curious). Figure 6-8 on page 28 of >IPC-2615 helps answer your question. > >2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify on your >fab prints? > >Though Table 9-3 specifies 0.2mm for Level B boards, I typically specify >0.15mm, or 0.006, MMC. As the drill/hole size gets larger, the tolerance >zone increases in size. For non-critical features, I specify 0.2mm or >0.25mm. > >3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position that PWB >fabricators hold? > >I'll leave this to one of our fabricator friends. > >Roger M. Stoops, C.I.D., PCB Designer >[log in to unmask] > > >Trimble >Engineering and Construction Division >5475 Kellenburger Rd. >Dayton, OH 45424-1099 USA >Ph: +01 937.233.8921 or +01 937.233.4574 ext 288 >Fax: +01 937.233.7511 > > > > Scott Kauling > <skauling@TRI- To: [log in to unmask] > ONICS.COM> cc: > Sent by: Subject: [TN] PWB Fab Note > Question - Diameter True Position > TechNet > <[log in to unmask] > RG> > > > 12/07/01 03:01 > PM > Please respond > to "TechNet > E-Mail Forum." > > > > > >In IPC 2221 section 9.2.2 describes hole location tolerance, it is >expressed as "diameter about true position". IPC T-50 defines "true >position", not diameter about true position. > >My questions are: > > 1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true >position? > > 2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify on >your >fab prints > > 3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position >that PWB >fabricators hold? > >Thanks in advance for your input. > >Have a good weekend! > >Scott Kauling >Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 13:03:34 -0800 >From: "Crepeau, Phil" <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >hi, > >true position can be expressed as a radius or a diameter. possibly this >is what your dimension is telling you. > >phil > >-----Original Message----- >From: Scott Kauling [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 12:01 PM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: [TN] PWB Fab Note Question - Diameter True Position > > >In IPC 2221 section 9.2.2 describes hole location tolerance, it is >expressed as "diameter about true position". IPC T-50 defines "true >position", not diameter about true position. > >My questions are: > > 1. How does the diameter about come into play with the true position? > > 2. What tolerance of diameter about true position do you specify > on your >fab prints > > 3. What is the typical capability of diameter about true position > that PWB >fabricators hold? > >Thanks in advance for your input. > >Have a good weekend! > >Scott Kauling > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------ >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET >Technet NOMAIL >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > >E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 >ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------ >Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:42:08 -0600 >From: Will Cabrera <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: BGA Rework Equipment > >I work for a small OEM company and I am looking for BGA rework equipment >for in-house use. We sub out our low-volume PCA assembly and ICT. Any >recommendations on what BGA Rework equipment/supplier I can evaluate? > >Will >Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 16:17:36 -0600 >From: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: BGA Rework Equipment >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >If you like to out source things just do the same for BGA repair, the good >equipment (SRT) can be $50-70K and it requires >a bit of experiance to get it right. Develop removal profiles, site >clean-up and > prep, repair damaged pads and mask, reballing >BGAs, micro stencil paste, reflow profiles, This could be a long process to >develope. Try to send out Citcuit Tech. >http://www.circuittechctr.com/services/bga.htm >is one of many who can do it. Good luck! > > > > > > > > >Will Cabrera <[log in to unmask]> on 12/07/2001 03:42:08 PM > >Please respond to "TechNet E-Mail Forum." <[log in to unmask]> > > > > > > > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > cc: (bcc: Warren Crow/US/I-O INC) > > > > Subject: [TN] BGA Rework Equipment > > > > > > > > >I work for a small OEM company and I am looking for BGA rework equipment >for in-house use. We sub out our low-volume PCA assembly and ICT. Any >recommendations on what BGA Rework equipment/supplier I can evaluate? > >Will > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------ > >Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d >To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in >the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet >To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET >Technet >NOMAIL >Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > >E-mail Archives >Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional >information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 >ext.5315 >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------ >Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 17:22:23 -0800 >From: David Fish <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: BGA Visual Inspection >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Look to the SMTA Knowledgebase for: > >09/24/2000 "COMBINING VISUAL AND X-RAY INSPECTION OF AREA ARRAY DEVICES " >Douglas J. Peck, AEIC > >Dave Fish > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Anderson, Greg (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)" <[log in to unmask]> >To: <[log in to unmask]> >Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:43 AM >Subject: [TN] BGA Visual Inspection > > > > > TechNet Friends, > > > We are looking into visual inspection of BGAs to supplement our > > > X-Ray inspection. I am somewhat familiar with the ERSASCOPE. It >appears > > > to be a fully developed, well-thought out system, with all the options >to > > > make life easy. It appears that their supplemental tools in fact, do >add > > > value to the endoscope itself. This, of course, comes at a price. > > > I'm hoping to hear from people who have personally evaluated such > > > tools. > > > Are all the features of the ERSA truly benefits? > > > Are there other systems that do what the ERSASCOPE does? Are they > > > as fully developed as the ERSA? > > > > > > Thanks for your help with this one, > > > I > > > > > > Greg Anderson > > > Senior Advanced Manufacturing Engineer > > > GE Fanuc Automation > > > Charlottesville, VA 22911 > > > Phone: 434-978-5181 > > > FAX: 434-978-5898 > > > e-mail: [log in to unmask] > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------- > > Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d > > To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in > > the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet > > To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET >Technet NOMAIL > > Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > >E-mail Archives > > Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for >additional > > information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 >ext.5315 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------- > > Hi, I will be back on 12/17/01. Regards, Jong