J-STD-001C 5.2 Solderablity: Electronic/mechanical components and wires to be soldered shall meet the requirements of J-STD-002 or equivalent . . . I do not see a requirement for 100% solderability testing. I am not a proponent of 100% solderability testing. I submit that the standard requires you to "know" that the part you intend to use in production be solderable as defined in J-STD-002. I believe you can "know" this through statistical methods and sampling. I set up a sampling plan for our board suppliers that specified sampling by date code. So, in the case where our supplier manufactured many different part numbers our testing requirements were reduced. We found the system to be effective (identified defective product and minimized inspection and test), and our customers approved the system. I think the part of the standard that might be getting you is 5.4 Soderability Maintenance: . . . ensure that all componets, parts, leads, wiring . . . are solderable. But, I interpert this paragraph as addressing storage and handling. It does not mention testing or inspection. This paragrah requires the manufacturer to "know" that storage and handling has not degraded the components to be soldered. The end item acceptability criteria in the J-STD-001 and IPC-A-610 assume that the materials and methods used conform to the requirements of the standard. This is not a version of process control it is a prerequisite for compliance. A means by which we can provide assurance is SPC, rather than 100% inspection. One of the four essential techniques in Statistical Quality Control (from the Western Electric Handbook, 1956 based on Shewhart's work) is Statistical Sampling Inspection. Guy Ramsey Senior Lab Technician / Instructor E-Mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Ph: (610) 362-1200 x107 Fax: (610) 362-1290 -----Original Message----- From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of David Fish Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 12:24 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [TN] J-STD-002 and -003 solderability testing... Guy, What makes 100% solderability testing of the components, wires, and boards referenced in J-STD-001, 5.2 a valid version of process control? If a mandated process step is process control, we sure have different perceptions of process control. We think of process control as an organic element that the process operator changes to maintain and improve quality. Yano, something out of Shewhart's work that started in the 1920s. Tell me, does IPC- 9191 "General Guidelines for Implementation of Statistical Process Control (SPC)" also suggest 100% sampling? You speak of managing risk and making business decisions. We appreciate that your comments speak to everyday processes within many companies. What in J-STD-001 says that you can still be compliant after making business decisions that are not in compliance with the standard? We read it as "all or nothing." We thought precluding making business decisions about the standard was the intent all the SHALLs when we went from rev B to rev C. Guy, you're correct, Mike's requirement for "objective evidence" is not from J-001, 5.4 [or 5.2]. On the other hand, most quality systems require objective evidence to demonstrate that you do what you say you do [and obtain certification from outside auditors]. So if you say you comply with J-STD-001, you need to be able to prove it!!! [The realization of a need to demonstrate compliance is probably the inspiration for this thread. You know . "Lordy, how are we going to do THAT?"] On you opinion that 100% solderability testing is vital to obtaining 75% barrel fill, we only float [sacrifice] a single board in each lot and we get GREAT barrel fill, well except in the cases of a couple of nasty ground planes, but we know we get cut some slack on those. Where are STC BIG dogs? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET Technet NOMAIL Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Technet Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet To temporarily halt delivery of Technet send the following message: SET Technet NOMAIL Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please visit IPC web site (http://www.ipc.org/html/forum.htm) for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------